[Las Vegas massacre] Let's make a megathread! Is there any real interest in this? The main idea, organize what we know, or think we know.

331  2017-10-18 by Silentbtdeadly

Okay, I've seen several people post recently about sources they think are misinformation, and I think they make valid points. I think our biggest problem at the moment is that we aren't organizing information that's come in, organizing what seems to be debunked.. to simply be able to look at it all, and think about what it is we are missing.

I'm going to bed soon, but I'm willing to try to organize something, but at the moment all I have to work with is my mobile which will make it more difficult. Is anyone else willing to try this from another approach? Edit: I don't think any one person could organize like I'm talking about, I think it could take a dozen people to organize datasets, then a few people attempting to organize what they've gathered.

The idea, is to approach it from more of an investigative stand point. Start by breaking it down into a timeline, state what the "official statement" is for each segment, then assemble each cohesive alternate explanation is, and what possible things refute that information.

The goal is to have something comparable to the white board you see in TV shows. Something you can look at, and question: what are we missing? Is there a better way of looking at this?

The reason: posts get buried, valid proof didn't get noticed, debunked things keep getting mentioned, multiple sources that contradict each other happen..

So again, is anyone interested in making a megathread to organize this in a way that allows us to simply look at the facts and go from there?

r/lasvegasfalseflag seemed to me, to be a kind of attempt at this, but that's one user cherry picking what they think matters.. and I think that as a collective we can do much better.

And if you think there's a better way to organize, better methods, please do comment.

As there's likely to be an increasingly bigger gap between us getting anything official, I think we would be better served by using the time to organize what we know, what we think we know.

Ultimately, the way I envision this, is we figure out how to best divide the timeline: before event, during event, post event. Then each element within each part: paddock, Campos, engineer, misc.. etc.

Each part of the timeline would be its own post, multiple would likely need to be made.. then a parent or more than one that attempts to organize the "big picture".

I haven't seen anything that strikes me as methodical, or attempts to really organize in general. If anything does exist, feel free to let me know..

At this point, I'm pretty sure all agree, what we've been told doesn't make sense. So why not attempt to organize something that does make sense, that we can then use to get closer to some form of truth.

I will say, I think motive shouldn't be part of this, as it will be more complex and opinion based.. and likely require several posts of its own to try to analyze.

I will edit typos and that's it.

Thoughts?

62 comments

There were some good Charlottesville compilations - maybe see if you can dig one up as a template and start filling it in.

The only thing I think officials have been completely honest about, is how complex this situation is. The very fact that we have very little officially told to us is evidence, but how much backtracking they've had to do is absolute proof in my opinion.

Besides, everything deserves its own approach.. I'm only presenting an idea of how to break things down and organize. It could be much more methodical, and maybe come up with better results if it is.

But I don't think any kind of template could contain this bad boy.. but you're welcome to find one?

I just want to see us do more with the information we have, rather than argue and lose possible facts to time..

I honestly think this is a created diversion to keep people focused on domestic terrorism instead of real issues, for example: what just transpired with the devastation this hurricane season; all of a sudden Elon Musk basically owns Puerto Rico, or the Flint water crisis, or the multitude of other crazy shenanigans going on?

Side note: Terrorism was created by America. It is a fabrication that has come to fucking life, but I'm no longer terrified and here's why:

People like us are spreading doubt when it comes to the mainstream narrative, enlightening others who wouldn't typically be influenced, to do their own investigations and ask their own questions.

This activity will only see exponential growth. Especially if we keep recognizing the people who die fighting for truth.

And I'll argue that there was a White guy in one of the Carolinas that attempted to blow people up, to start a civil war.

More facts, he created a bomb that read supposed to blow up many hours later, at 6am, that involved shrapnel, at an airport.

If you Google "Civil War Carolina airport" you should be able to find it pretty easily, it happened after the Las Vegas Massacre..

So, if the purpose is as simple as to divide us, why is this not actually covered by mainstream news? "A thwarted airport bombing receives little press" being the headline of the only kind of mainstream media that covered it.

My point.. I don't think it's that simple.

Sorry for grammar errors if any, I'm drinking.

Because that guy wouldn't have started a civil war. And TPTB don't want civil war.

my thinking is is the airport bombing was real so it wasnt covered where as vegas was already penciled in for 10 pm appointment

I'll add you to /r/LasVegasFalseFlag/

... have at it.

I applaud what I think you're doing, I realized it early on.. but sometimes it seemed like you added anything and everything that was posted that day.

I'm talking about a community effort to try to organize the information..

I wish there was a filter that simply removed all the sexual allegations and other stuff that seems far less important.. but you didn't pull every single post regarding the Las Vegas event.

I think and hope there's people that have tried to organize information themselves, and others that just have certain facts they've held onto that they want to contribute with.. but I'm on mobile, and my clipboard has been full a while now, even after dumping it in a notes app multiple times.

Do you want to help organize the information that you've gathered? There's just so much, I think it will require a lot of people putting in a lot of effort..

but sometimes it seemed like you added anything and everything that was posted that day.

yes. the idea was to have a central location for all posts... i wasn't going to be the editor. i figure others would be able to use that sub for a good source.

sexual allegations

??

Do you want to help organize the information that you've gathered?

I would rather we not delete anything. All meta data is valuable - even the troll data gives investigators an idea of how the trolling is being propagated.

If you want to be helpful, please started creating a wiki timeline, as you suggested -- that would be really terrific!

cheers

As far as sexual allegations go, I'm talking about the many different posts that have made it harder to find anything Las Vegas related.. Weinstein, Hillary and Russia.. it's been harder to find posts related to Las Vegas, because so much else is being spammed in this sub.

Plenty of people are posting relevant things without the key words Las Vegas.. basically, there's no way to filter through all the other things being posted in this sub.

Basically, u/totesmessenger(sp?) hasn't been pointing out you linking to many posts I think are very relevant.. but that's because there's been an obvious agenda of posting duplicate posts, or spamming the sub with things that doesn't matter, because it's been posted already.

I think the term is sliding.. hiding things people want to know under repeated posts of the same bullshit.

As far as sexual allegations go

ahh... thought you were talking about /r/LasVegasFalseFlag

agreed re: /r/conspiracy -- lots of disinfo these days

That's why the first thing I mentioned in the post was disinformation.. because it seems obvious at this point, that the only way to really analyze the information is by separating it from everything else.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/75ug7r/facts_about_lv_so_far/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=user&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage - feel free to grab all that info to start. hasn't had much updating because so little trickles out when the FBI decides not to hold pressers anymore -___-

The lack of blue text, or links, is the issue. Maybe what I want is to difficult for the people really interested.. but it's one or more parent posts that link to posts like that.. that actually organized the sources it's "quoting".

Put more simply, maybe what I'm hoping for is an impossible request.. but the idea is to organize the sources of information by simply being able to click links.. you can keep clicking, going further down the rabbit hole.. with the idea that there's a bigger picture we can all look at, after validating that the rabbit hole is worthy of doing down.

In retrospect, what I'm aiming for seems impossible.. but it's validated by the idea that officials haven't been able to make sense of this either.

Loose quotes don't really work, if you have to starch for why those quotes exist.

Asked mods for a sticky on the topic and tagged them in that post as a start. If they would have stickied I would have taken the time to cite my sources for every point on that list. One messaged back saying 'they'd take a vote.' Nothing ever came of it.

I think organizing our information in a mega-thread would be a great idea. The mods have decided it's not. So reposts of the same shit we knew 4 days ago it is.

And I'm a little scared to comment, as I'm officially new here.. but this sub is being bombarded by duplicate posts, things that are obviously spam.

This isn't r/news, where the entire idea is that every post needs to be unique.. but there's generally many posts that are the exact same as all the others, that are allowed to continue, even though they add nothing.

"see something, say something" 1-8x0x0-CALL-FxIxB - nah, speak up though. I doubt it does anything, but if enough of us asked for a mega-thread, they have the room for it (2 announcements at a time)

This is the area where reddit's structure fall flat. I remember the Serial subreddit trying to do something similar because everyone was coming to the subreddit to discuss a mystery and just making repetitive posts that had been discussed Ad nauseam. I know the mods there were trying to make a Wiki and try to get people directed to it first before they started posting. But that only does so much.

How many days has it been since the shooting? I can't remember the titles of posts that I know are relevant from 4 days ago, much less anything before.

I agree, Reddit isn't ideal for many things.. mainly organizing. But, it's something no one has really tried, with real effort at least. I've seen link dumps, but that's about it.. all having sunken into obscurity as time goes on.

The lack of blue text, or links, is the issue. Maybe what I want is to difficult for the people really interested.. but it's one or more parent posts that link to posts like that.. that actually organized the sources it's "quoting".

You basically need a wiki site for the Vegas conspiracy, but do NOT put this on this sub -- it will just get deleted. You need to organize it in google docs or some other off-reddit site that you trust. THEN post it here.

So, if there's any interest.. first step would be how to break down the timeline. What I suggested was very rudimentary. Preparation phase, the event transpiring, and possible post event details that may matter. Each, being broken down by important factors/actors.

Should it be broken down more? Differently? Thoughts in general?

Keep it as simple and 'big picture' as possible to begin with. You need to identify the key issues with the official narrative. The key players and the key elements of the incident in general. My knowledge on this isn't lucid, so unfortunately I can't be more specific.

So many stories could be concocted. I imagine the dude was a perv, drunk, druggy, sex tourist, and his girlfriend assistant was his handler. I don't think he is dead.

So far it's looking like a horrific mass murder in which we're not clear on the events leading up to it or the motivation, so many parties have created their own as stand-ins for the time being. Some have done this deliberately in order to frame what it looks like from a conspiracy perspective moving forward. Every mass shooting gets it's theory, and they've tried to get theirs to "win."

But in reality, we don't have many facts. Nor has the MSM given us many facts to chew on either, which is suspect and allows for more speculation. This seems an interesting part of this, as any ready-made political narrative would be seen by opponents of those politics as being a psyop government inside job, just switch up the targeted culprit group to your choosing. With the picture still unclear and unformed for the public, this is being done regardless.

we don't have many facts

I agree that the public and the media hasn't been given many facts, and the mainstream media is unusually disinterested in finding them of their own accord.

I don't believe in multiple shooters, gun deals gone bad, or crisis actors. I also don't believe that Paddock is a ghost with no past, no politics, no associations, and no friends that he ever confided in.

I do believe that paddock spent months, if not years, meticulously planning an attack on a country music concert in Las Vegas. I believe that if it had been a Dead Kennedys concert in Portland the MSM wouldn't be so accepting of the "no motive" narrative coming out of law enforcement.

I've felt like I've read this comment weeks before today weirdly....

Yeah I'm not putting much stock in the promoted theories as they stand, each has been invented from the raw material we know about or simply made up to fit an agenda. It is quite strange that so much of this is a void so far.

What do we seem to know about Paddock? Had some money, a gambler, on anxiety meds, abusive/controlling with his girlfriend. There's always such a rush to the government or CIA motivation, but this neglects the role something like the mob might play, or (perhaps most depressingly of all) the idea that he was simply a well-concealed psychopath who always intended to go out this way. It was easy for him to buy these (legal) weapons, rent that suite, and the festival was an easy target. Some things are so brutally simple they just must be more complex than we feel comfortable admitting. Still I await more facts and some evidence.

I am reminded of the low IQ Australian twentysomething who went on that rampage in '96. He had no known political affiliation or gripe, was driven to mass murder over good-old vengeance. This didn't stop some Aussie parties from believing it was a big plot to disarm the country, though, a theory that persists after all these years regardless.

Absolutely a hoax. Everyone is chasing their tails.

But people react to grief in different ways....What the fuck ever. Not everyone reacts in exactly the wrong way. These are bad actors. Acting is hard....I also like how all of these actors are really good looking and do not look like country music fans haha.

The only thing we really know is statements. No official evidence has been released. The main character appears on an entertainment show. People are not buying what we are being asked to. Just give us some evidence and people will be happy.

You've got nothing there, really. It's not a smoking gun.

This any better?

http://youtu.be/OxQOCrY-roc

That's a different subject. I mean the door opening directions, barricade, etc.

By the way, that videos shows the famous "4th floor shooter" which has been shown to be a strobe light that is always there.

Two angles on a shooter on the lower floors http://youtu.be/OxQOCrY-roc

New user trying to coral everything into one thread so it gets missed/ignored.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If people actually did this, it would be much easier to find information.. most of the information would be that that's already missed, far from the front page.

The idea would be to gather information we already have, that many already missed, to increase visibility, organize, and then decide what makes the most sense in whatever information is gathered..

Besides, this post isn't to gather information, it's to see if there's interest in doing it, as anything I've seen if an unorganized half assed attempt at best.

The way reddit works is not real friendly to collaboration. The best scenario would be to make a sub-reddit with strong moderation but without random participation.

I agree to a degree.. I was offered to mod r/lasvegasfalseflag, since their intension was to gather information on everything Las Vegas, but it doesn't exactly have a user base, and linking to posts here that are made there aren't going to effectively do anything to change exactly what you're talking about.

Ultimately, if people make a conscious effort to hide posts regarding Las Vegas, regardless of what we do.. they can do it.

It's sad, but I don't know what else we can do, but work within the system that has the people most likely to be interested.

If you are truly interested in the research & collaboration on that sub then I would accept the offer to help mod it.

Having a user base won't help a team of dedicated researchers - that would just distract from the mission goals.

I would go so far to suggest that sub NOT BE OPEN to random posters, but be publicly viewable.

The thing is, there's plenty of people here who likely have been researching, gathering links to YouTube videos, posts on here.. how many thousand posts do you think have been posted here in the 17 days since it happened?

A small group of people sifting through so much information, considering they may be biased, or too skeptical, or.. that's why I think a collaborative effort of a diverse base is far more likely to give better results.

Plus, there's simply more information related to this, than anything I can think of to date. If 100s of law enforcement haven't found answers they can give us, having thousands of minds contributing might have a better result.

I think the biggest problem is that no one has been approaching it from a methodical and organized way, that's what I'm proposing.

Actually, 99% of the original research and source materials related to the LVM is coming from off-site and redditors simply post links here on reddit for kaaaaarmaaaaaa.

Reddit is for the casuals. Really.

I don't really care about it...like its a shame that it happened and when it did the first thought in my head was "wow another mentally ill individual who shouldn't have had access to guns". I avoided all the "conspiracy" ideas that people had and the ridiculousness of it all. To me it was just some guy that had issues and wanted to do something. But then I read today that the "hero" security guard is missing... like wtf? No one knows where he went? Makes me think he had something to do with it and maybe backed out at the last second

Im down, give me a task and I will do my best. I also think this should be done for EVERY theory we are working on. In fact we should make a sub that reposts the organized info for each conspiracy

Well this post was just to see if anyone is interested.. how the information is organized is going to be the most important step, no one is really talking about that here.

If you wanted to make a post that links back to here, with the general focus on being what is the best way to break down the timeline, so that no post/person is going to try to organize more information than is possible.

For instance, information anytime before the event, the preparation phase (3-7 days before the event?), The actual event (probably the biggest section), what's happened since the event..

I'm not sure that breaks it down enough, so a post to see if anyone has any better ideas as to how to organize would probably be helpful.

I saw someone mention using previous events as a template, but I think this event is far too complex to fit into any other attempt at organizing information.

I think just linking links with a description underneath in chronological order would be simple enough for people to follow and also add to. you could seperate the links within the comment to show before, during and after the event.

example: BEFORE EVENT TAKES PLACE link 1- 7 days before description of link 1 and how it pertains to event

link2 - 5 days before description of link 2 and how it pertains to event

ACTUAL DAY OF EVENT link 1 - 930 pm description of link 1 and how it pertains to event

etc...

I've seen attempts at just gathering video links that hit the post limit, I'm absolutely certain, that if there were a real community effort, it would take multiple posts, one for each, then a main post that pulls it all together and organizes it.

Unless there's much less interest in this than I think.. if people really put in effort, I think the community response would be large, too large for any one person to organize by far.

yes seprating it between posts and linking them would be good. it should be easy to follow and provide nothing but the pertinent information. We need to think about how normies will react when presented with the info. I think if it is clean and easy to follow we should make great progress. where to start is another hurdle

I would say go through this post and see who says they're willing to participate, ask them with section of timeline they want to cover, and discuss the best way of creating a post asking people to post their evidence during that period.

If people aren't really interested in contributing, this isn't going to get far. I wish I hadn't recently broken my computer, life would be better right now.

I would be very interested. My main question is the claim of firing 200 rounds in the hallway before shooting into the crowd. All the videos of before the shooting you hear 3? Single shots and then shooting into the crowd 100 times or so.

When did these 200 in the hallway go off? It seems like the altercation on the 32nd floor with Campos may have been 3 shots and then towards the crowd.

Fake event just like the others.

yeah lets group source it all, so its even easier for it to all be deleted in one swoop? lets ignore the 2-3 other mega threads that were already started too!

not saying you shouldnt do one, but i would rather see 4-5 independent threads than one that is easier for the shills to monitor and disrupt.

In no way am I saying no one else should do it too.. and do you think the mods here would delete a post about one of the most popular subjects at the moment, or do you think the people making each post would?

I'd love to get some links to anyone else that's working on one, or even any that have already been made..

The mod of r/LasVegasFalseflag offered for me to be a mod, do you think it's more or less likely to be effected by negative actors if the main posts are created there?

do i think the mods would do that? yes yes i do, i've been here long enough to watch it happen multiple times. this is not some place immune to the fuckery of reddit, dont think for a second this place is better than worldnews or the the_donald, its not, we just pay more attention and call it out when it happens.

a lot of info and links have popped up here only to be buried or removed. i suggest using an off reddit site to save that sort of info, use reddit to find it. prep your posts elsewhere and post results or things you want to share or ask for input on but under no circumstances think a megathread is a good idea to host all that info. all it takes is a "mistake" by some admin to bury, edit, or delete that info.

also keep in mind when you share a source here, if its something that has slipped through the internet clean up teams it will instantly get more attention and possibly be removed from the source hosting it.

so download it and rehost it yourself if you can (so the original source stays up longer)

closed Sub's are a good place to get a tighter knit group but again its still on reddit and imho this whole platform is compromised and part of the problem and maybe even part of the groups pushing things like the LV shootings.

Solid thinking. I originally thought having a Google doc would be good, there's 0 ways to erase what's been edited, I've used it many times to collaborate on big projects.

Using posts here to gather information for the doc, also reflected here.. making archives of the posts here daily..

Ultimately, I don't see how "shilling" will matter vote wise, and ultimately the idea is to find the truth by disproving what clearly isn't true, and looking for the different perspectives are that haven't been covered..

I don't know, this post was to see if anyone was interested, and generally discuss methods with those that are.

the "shills" i would worry about are the people who try to get in to that trusted circle and sabotage things from within.

remember the more progress you make, the more attention you will get from the higher skilled ones

Well, everyone can see all changes made, and by who with a Google doc. The owner can revert it back to any point via snapshots made with every change. It would be nearly impossible to do anything truly damaging, worst would be adding stupid sources, but then again, the idea to gather information, not decide whether it's worthy before it's gathered.

not sure id be all on board with trusting google of all things if you actually got on the trail of something.

i mean the whole youtube fiasco doesnt make me trust Alphabet very much in general.

There's simple ways to create redundancy, the files can be saved in a folder on a computer or mobile device, simply selecting the same folder with a cloud storage service like Dropbox can automatically backup each change as it's made.

well you sound like you've got a good start, be careful, stay safe.

My theory: Multiple shooters, possibly in Gitmo or en-route and thus FBI do not want people to know.

In no way am I saying no one else should do it too.. and do you think the mods here would delete a post about one of the most popular subjects at the moment, or do you think the people making each post would?

I'd love to get some links to anyone else that's working on one, or even any that have already been made..

The mod of r/LasVegasFalseflag offered for me to be a mod, do you think it's more or less likely to be effected by negative actors if the main posts are created there?

Solid thinking. I originally thought having a Google doc would be good, there's 0 ways to erase what's been edited, I've used it many times to collaborate on big projects.

Using posts here to gather information for the doc, also reflected here.. making archives of the posts here daily..

Ultimately, I don't see how "shilling" will matter vote wise, and ultimately the idea is to find the truth by disproving what clearly isn't true, and looking for the different perspectives are that haven't been covered..

I don't know, this post was to see if anyone was interested, and generally discuss methods with those that are.