I've long held this their for the Las Vegas shooting in, waiting to see it debunked.. I welcome skeptics to give me alternative views.
83 2017-10-23 by Silentbtdeadly
I hate that you can't edit titles. I've long held this theory*
Okay, this is something I haven't shared, and I've taken my time and tried to consider all other possibilities.. it doesn't try to explain everything, it's just a possible scenario. This is born out of the idea that Paddock has no motive, and I won't try to supply one. And sorry, this is longer than intended.
I don't know when he was hired, you have Laura Loomer on Twitter who claimed Campos started working on June 30th, some other guy in YouTube claimed the same day he started in August(can't find the link), but this is going off of one of them not being full of shit, or the possibility that he's somewhat new to the job. Plausible at least, and either way it doesn't hinge on this idea.
So, as security there's a definite opportunity to observe people, in fact, that's part of the job. Whether he had access to cameras, or simply working the floor, he could identify potential targets, how often they're there, etc. The possibility that he actually sought out this job to do exactly this seems reasonable.
We know Paddock frequented the casino, which means Campos could have recognized him as a potential target. If he knew he booked a room for multiple days, and has observed this behavior prior to this, he could have found out where he lives and verified he was a gun owner.
Even if he wasn't security, he would obviously have access and be able to observe where there's cameras and where there isn't. A possible reason he approached by stairs is because (my understanding) is that the elevators have cameras on them.
He's also linked into the police search via his radio, and as the first reports show they were searching floors leading up to floor 32, and he very reasonably could have had the same scanner app going on his phone, as many here did while it was occurring.
An important factor is that Jesus is the only person that is a witness until he calls maintenance, at which point he has a limited time before someone else is there. Also, depending on whether their official story can be believed or not, we don't know when Campos reported the shots fired, only that he supposedly did. We do however have audio of the maintenance guy calling it in, with no mention of Campos or of him being shot, which doesn't match their official story, and may give a bigger gap between when they actually meet on that floor.
We've been told that the shooting was called in at 10:05 by Campos, but this doesn't really make sense if he called in the maintenance guy at 9:59, who must have arrived sometime after shooting began at 10:05, for Campos to have already been shot.
From originally reports on the original timeline:
The first officers arrived on the 31st floor -- one floor below where Paddock was firing -- at 10:12 p.m. Officers arrived at the 32nd floor at 10:17 p.m. Lombardo said it was "phenomenal" they reached the 32nd floor within 12 minutes of when shots rang out.
One minute later, a security officer told Las Vegas police officers he was shot and gives them the exact location of the shooter. Lombardo said he didn't know if the security officer was armed.
"Fake news" aside, you have the media saying that "a security officer" was shot (Campos) and was reported 1 minute after they reached that floor. This is what spawned this entire theory.
Unless the police are truly incompetent, or perhaps the media is truly bad at gathering facts, this shifts everything I've said up until now to after the fact. No one has questioned the changes in the timeline, such as an important one like this..
But the discrepancy between what was originally reported, and what they claim now was never questioned. Meaning, unless both what the police told reporters was wrong, as well as what they told us.. the maintenance guy would have been arriving at around the same time as police.
Because maintenance guy claims there was still shooting going on, he must have arrived before the police did at 10:17, but at this point in the official story he didn't even exist.
What we actually have is Campos being the only person involved between 9:59 and sometime after 10:05 for sure. A maintenance guy who occurred after shooting started (because Campos was shot by then), and supposedly before it ended (since he claims shots were still being fired).
I'm not actually making the claim Campos did anything, was the second shooter, or that Paddock was a Patsy..
I am however saying that when you consider "means, motive, and opportunity", everything but motive seems to be there. If officials were more forthcoming with what actually happened, I wouldn't be questioning this.. but the wild changes to the timeline, when compared to the original reports completely, as far as I can see, give Campos means and opportunity.
The why, I'll leave to you. I've withheld my opinion on what I think possibly did happen until there were facts that refuted it. Unfortunately, no actual facts were released that disprove my theory, just continual shifts in what how they claim the end result happen.
They could easily release audio of Campos reporting all the things they say he said, and evidence of when they claim he reported them.
But he is the wildcard. The only factor they haven't given actual evidence to explain. A guy that had the job that could stalk an unwilling or willing victim, knows where he is being recorded/documented.. where only what he says, and when he says it is the only evidence there is until another person is on site.
I don't know, feel free to poke holes in this, I'm simply trying to explain why what we've been told doesn't match what we actually know, and an alternative explanation.
Edits will be based on punctuation unless anyone offers something worth adding.
Edit: I forgot to include the video where the shooting happened earlier than most videos show. start at 3:10, shooting starts at 3:12, and in the article I linked earlier, the police based the shooting starting off of CCTV footage and the time hasn't changed since announced.. while this video shows it happened earlier than most people realize, the reactions to the shooting didn't happen till later.
43 comments
1 KMckok 2017-10-23
Great write-up, good free thought. It will all come out in the wash... The truth will tell his cell phone this one too much data out there.
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
At this point, I'm looking to be proven wrong, without it simply being "but they said.."
What they've said never made sense to many, the reason so many people question this I think, is what they initially said, compared to what they've said now.
None of it made sense, and I'm just trying to explain how the one person all of the changes seems to revolve around.. how it gives him the most means and opportunity, the most plausible deniability.
I'm not saying second shooter, I'm not saying he did it, it be killed Paddock or shot himself.. I'm just saying all of those things seem certainly possible.
He seems to be the least investigated person, I'd love to say I have faith in our investigators.. but if you create a situation where you have the ability to say whatever you want, with no evidence that can prove you won't.. testing him for gun shot residue and other ideas simply may not have happened..
That's kind of the point, any evidence they would have needed to gather from him may not have occurred to them when he initially looks like the hero.
1 JesusChristUrStupid 2017-10-23
How do you figure? Do you think someone who does that much planning is going to use a phone attached to his real name?
1 KMckok 2017-10-23
Meant to say the truth will tell itself
1 JesusChristUrStupid 2017-10-23
What data is out there though?
1 KMckok 2017-10-23
Hundreds of videos and testimony that have not been aired. Something will come to the surface.
1 JesusChristUrStupid 2017-10-23
Where are these people going to testify, and videos of what? There's not going to be a trial if the only suspect is dead.
1 KMckok 2017-10-23
Who was going to shoot the other guns? Think outside the box.
1 JesusChristUrStupid 2017-10-23
You think multiple shooters are going to testify? They have all but closed this case.
1 silverstack91 2017-10-23
You're hot
1 TradeSekrat 2017-10-23
I don't know if average low income job having Campos is going to be able to find out some random client of the hotel lives here or there and owns guns or not, unless one want to roll with there is more to him than meets the eye. Yet he seems sort of slubby to me but that's unfair. Maybe that's the perfect cover?
My own personal theory on the time line is police love to put on the show of being 100% in control. The public wants that, being it's comforting to think law enforcement are on top of something. People don't want to hear a bunch of maybe, if, we think, kind of etc. Plus there is no grey area when it comes to court cases or investigations and it's why everything is always said with pure conviction. I'm thinking the time line is crappy being the they are trying to nail it down to a minute to minute action and people are really time lazy now. We don't wear watches and you're not checking it in the middle of some drama. Now there will be time stamps on phone records, video tapes and so on. So I pretty sure at this point the police have a much more detailed time line.
but law enforcement doesn't give a shit about average people wanting or even getting that info. If the police have it, that's all they care about. Your average person has already moved to the next big news story. I've not seen anything about Vegas outside of here for what seems like a few weeks now.
I'm thinking the bulk of what we are seeing now from MGM and even Campo is all about money. Hotel wants to do PR and maybe even legal damage control. I sure Campos got a fat check from someone for going on BS day time talk tv. Biggest shooting in USA history, better go on Ellen? That's just strange. Even for someone like myself who doubts most of the narrative of this shooting being anything more then dude with guns. Ellen was a total WTF.
1 BrewtalDoom 2017-10-23
Let's not forget the impact which 24/7 news media has. They are desperate for things to report and so will throw just about anything out there and label it as 'reports' so that they can clean things up later once a clearer picture starts to appear. But then the inaccurate stuff gets jumped all over by eager conspiracy theorists looking for inconsistencies.
1 LoneStarMike59 2017-10-23
I don't think he called the maintenance man (Stephen Schuck) directly.
Watch the Ellen interview from
1:27 up until about 2:14
He says when he was in the vestibule between the inner and outer stairwell doors, he called security detail, who then transferred him to the engineering department. The engineering department did not know what was going on and I think it was the engineering department that called the maintenance guy.
It could have taken two or three minutes after he started the call at 9:59 pm for the engineering department to get in touch with Schuck.
But overall, your point is still valid.
Something else I've been wondering is where did the room service cart in front of 32-134 come from? Did Paddock see it down the hall somewhere and decide to use it to set up those cameras? Or did it come from Paddock's room? If it came from Paddock's room, there sure were a lot of dishes on that cart (and two water botles) for it to have been a meal for one person.
1 LoneStarMike59 2017-10-23
Here's something else Im confused about. The conecting door between the suite and the other room.
Here's a screen shot of how the other room looks as you first walk in. I think the room type is Resort Queen. Two queen sized beds. The window that the pink chair is in front of is the window that was broken.
Image
The connecting door to Paddock's suite is on the left with the handle and the deadbolt. Notice how it is flush against the wall.
Here's a cropped screen shot from the next day from a helicopter looking into that room.
image
You can see the two queen beds and it looks like the pink chair has been placed between them either by the shooter or the police.
As the helicopter moves, you can start to see the connecting room door.
Image
This is panned over just a little bit more:
Image
The door looks to be closed, but it is also recessed in afrom the wall about six inches. I think the door we are seeing is the door that was opened on the suite side. I think the door that should be flush with the wall was the door that opened on 32-134's side.
And the police did use an explosive breach to get into the adjoining room from the suite.
Police scanner video at 1:17:20
My theory is that the police opened the door on Paddocks side. They just unlocked the deadbolt and pulled the handle. That's why it's still visible the next day in these photos. But the other door either had no hardware (handles or locks) on their side, or if it did they were locked from 32-134's side, and they had to use explosives to breach it.
If the police couldnt get into that room from Paddock's suite, then how could Paddock get into that room from his suite. He was supposed to have been going back and forth between the two windows shooting.
No one has ever addressed that.
1 Skysweep 2017-10-23
Oh this is awesome to think about! I clearly remember the sheriff saying that door was locked. Now I will be studying the room diagrams and videos in depth as I am desperate for some new info to ponder. Those two single pistol shots at the end of the shooting have consumed me with questions and theories for so long. Until now I had not realized the locked door was the connecting door! Thanks ...I was starving!
1 heymikeyp 2017-10-23
This is the first time I've seen an account not even a month old on r/conspiracy do good post. Nice job OP. Take my upvote you fucker.
1 MuchoLoco 2017-10-23
This thread was censored.
Located under
/r/uncensorship
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
What?
1 Sabremesh 2017-10-23
No it wasn't.
So show us the specific link.
1 MuchoLoco 2017-10-23
https://www.reddit.com/r/uncensorship/comments/785dxs/ive_long_held_this_their_for_the_las_vegas/?st=J94KGYXT&sh=dda5ac82
No problem .
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1 Sabremesh 2017-10-23
Thank you. That link confirms that the post was approved by /r/conspiracy 15 hours ago, and that it was not censored.
1 MuchoLoco 2017-10-23
Gotcha! Sorry for the misinformation. Didn't notice the approvelink flair .
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1 surfzz318 2017-10-23
What is Campos background?
1 kloular 2017-10-23
Campos was not even armed. That tells me that he is not high up in the security food chain. Likely he never noticed Paddock out of the thousands of people in and out everyday. Paddock wouldn't stand out in a crowd. Even if he did there is no reason for him to find out where he lives or if he owns guns. You are assuming that Campos had a scanner on his phone....don't assume anything...it takes away from your idea.
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
I made a point, he doesn't need to be"high up" in the security food chain. And you've missed the point, although I'm not trying to supply him with motive, if he had motive.. I gave solid evidence that he had means and opportunity.
The idea that Paddock doesn't, in your opinion, stand out in a crowd simply makes him a better target. If he was somehow involved, he absolutely could have researched into paddock.
Whoever did this obviously put in a lot of effort, perhaps it simply was paddock. But, what I was trying to show, is with everything we know, this could simply be the extreme efforts of Campos. Even the changes in the official timeline would directly come from what he tells the authorities. To say something like "you are assuming that Campos had a scanner on his phone" is kind of ignorant. Whoever did this was obviously well prepared, and it's hard to believe they wouldn't have a scanner on their phone.
1 kloular 2017-10-23
I wasn't shooting down your whole idea. I was just stating what I saw that didn't work. That's all. I still say that no one would have ever looked twice at Paddock. Those hotels are packed with people all the time. He would be no different than any other old man lol. You have your idea...and that's fine. I personally don't think Campos was involved but I can't say that for certain just as you can't say he was. I'm far from ignorant. I just believe assumptions are how a lot of misunderstandings happen.
1 Voyflen 2017-10-23
Wow, that's quite the theory. How did you come up with this?
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
I've followed it from day one, and tried to keep track of certain elements that police have changed their explanation on. The quoted article that the police claimed he reported being shot almost at the same time they arrived stuck out for me.
Besides the maintenance guy eventually being added to the story, everything hinges on what Campos tells the police, and no timeline really explains this in a logical way.
So, since it's happened I've waited for something to come out that makes the timeline make sense, all while considering possibilities involving Campos.. put yourself in his shoes, and imagine the amount of control he had over the situation. Over what we know.
The biggest hole in my theory is if he was involved, he would be covered in gun shot residue. But, if he convinced them he was an innocent bystander who's been shot, they'd have no reason to treat him as a suspect. And seeing how they've never said he was a suspect, that seems a reasonable conclusion.
1 Avid_Smoker 2017-10-23
r/titlegore
1 Strange_Me 2017-10-23
How about this:
Some crazy ass dude shot up some people but because he was white people are looking to blame someone else (fbi, hispanic guy, etc).
1 BrewtalDoom 2017-10-23
Nailed it.
If it was a dark-skinned guy or a Muslim then it'd be an open and shut case for most on here.
1 Strange_Me 2017-10-23
And if hillary was president she would be directly responsible.
Now everything is 'deep state' and not obama/hillary.
You even wonder why people call this sub the donald 2.0? Make excuses for the white guys, blame the non-whites, and give trump a pass every single day.
1 BrewtalDoom 2017-10-23
It is sadly going that way more and more isn't it? It seems that reasonable people have fallen by the wayside and now we have these 'professional conspiracy theorists' who already seem to have everything figured out and now just need to try and twist any information to fit their pre-determined worldview. Rather than being critical thinkers, people are now completely abandoning reason in order to force their own bizarre narratives on the rest of us.
The number of people who look at youtube videos and just say , 'This doesn't make sense' as if that's evidence of anything is shocking. How many times do you see those words on here?
"It just doesn't make sense."
"Something doesn't add-up"
So say a bunch of people completely removed from a situation who don't have anything close to evidence to fall back on.
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
I can tell you for a fact, my explanation has zero to do with his skin color or race.
He's simply the weakest link in the story, with all changes in timeline likely coming from what he's told police. He's the only one that was involved with Paddock from someone between when he started shooting, till police arrived.
Supposedly Paddock was still preparing when he spotted Campos and started shooting at Campos then. But seeing the video I provided that shows firing happening much earlier than is officially reported, that pushes the timeline earlier than police have told us.
If anything, I'm trying to show obvious flaws in what we've been told, and given possibilities of how someone working security possibly had the means and opportunity, with a lot of planning, to keep officials from seeing his involvement.
1 Strange_Me 2017-10-23
You (and others) don't have to be blatant about it.
He wasn't the shooter, if anything he was simply incidental to it all.
Have you ever been a security guard? I was for almost 5 years at a variety of places. My uncle was for 6 years (including armed security and being a cop, I never did my peace officer training so didn't carry on the job).
One night we had a woman come up to the building I was at. She was only partially dressed, on drugs, and said some guy had raped her. Totally took myself and the other guard off guard (this was at a retirement home) but we handled it, called the police, etc.
Now, this all seems simple. But we both had to fill out incident reports. They didn't fully match up on times/etc. We didn't have any recordings of the radio calls (I called him but there was no recording mechanism) - and in his report he had a different time for when I radioed him.
Now was all of this a conspiracy? No. Two people relaying information with different timelines (but they were close enough). If YOU read the reports and found the flaws in them what would you see? Neither of us lied or made up anything. We got some things 'wrong' (including the name of one the officers responding, but it was a tough name to spell) but the basic facts were accurate.
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
Telling me I was being blatant, while I never once mentioned his race, only his profession.. as a matter of fact, no one in the comments mentioned his race, just you and the dude replying to you.
And you mention your little story where the calls weren't recorded, which simply doesn't matter considering I posted a link of the radio call by the maintenance guy that was recorded.
It's actually rather cheap so setup a server to record audio, and a company that big who's main concerns are liability isn't going to allow a situation like yours occur.. which is simply why your little situation seems irrelevant.
They released audio of the maintenance guy, there's no reason they couldn't release audio of Campos, especially when it's first reported that he was shot after the mass shooting ended (as quoted in the article).
I know they don't have to anything, but they are could clear some things up pretty simply. Until then, I've made some valid points about what a security guard had the means to do.
1 Strange_Me 2017-10-23
Maybe you are missing the difference here.
The maintenance guy and the security guard are on different systems. Also, releasing audio of a maint. person is different than releasing the audio of the security person.
If there is a recording of Campos it will probably be released at some point, just like the videos (though there is no obligation). It might not happen until a trial (assuming MGM doesn't settle all the suits). And, what then? if it matches what he has said or goes along with what the maintenance guy said...then what?
I can tell you what. People will say it was all fake. Or they will note some small differences and claim it means something.
The focus around here seems to be...well, what? That Campos is a liar and to blame? That the shooting never happened? That paddock was totally innocent? Campos killed him and then shot all those people (seen that here too)?
How about this: maybe campos or the maintenance guy didn't get everything right in the initial chaos. Sure, I can get that. It was hell. But you and others? See that all as a conspiracy.
You want a conspiracy? How about this: everyone, from the first press conference, had the same story and no timelines, etc, changed at all ever. Campos, the sheriff, the fbi, etc and so on all had the same story and timeline from the get go.
Then I would be really suspicious. Would you? I am guessing you would just nod and be happy that everything was perfect. Just like with 9/11 and how the government had it all figured out right away.
1 Deplorableasfuk 2017-10-23
Great theory and totally agree about the fucked up changing stories about and from Campos. Here’s more craziness. There’s been 2 official gofundme campaigns. One is closed and deleted where they raised over $30,000 for him and the other I’ve posted the comments here where they raised 11k for Campos. It says he was an “fellow employee” of “Encore Event Technologies the AV partner to Mandalay Bay..”. Wait. Wtf? Here’s the entire campaign description...
“Encore Event Technologies is the AV partner to Mandalay Bay. Mandalay Bay Security Guard Jesus Campos, our fellow employee was shot and injured when he interrupted the shooter during the horrific events that occurred on October 1st, 2017. His bravery and this distraction prevented further injuries and casualties. After being shot, Campos spoke with police officers at 10:18 p.m., giving them the shooter's exact room and key pass. He remained with Metro officers, providing them the key pass to access the doors and continued to help them clear rooms until they demanded he seek medical attention. This campaign is for Encore employees to have a specific place to make a contribution knowing that 100% of the funding will go directly to Jesus. Your voluntary donation is greatly appreciated as Encore honors him for his bravery and heroism.”
1 Centuri0n- 2017-10-23
The 'Vegas shooting event' can be summed up in one word; HOAX.
1 LoneStarMike59 2017-10-23
You're right. Both the guest elevators and the service elevator had cameras. I was thinking that the stairwells also had cameras, but you're right again.
Remember that article from Intellihub about that investigator who was barred for life from all MGM properties for filming in elevators, stairwells, etc? That article had all his tweets with the photos and videos he took, then later all that remained were the tweets with his comments, but without the photos and videos.
I just went back to that article and the photos and videos are back! So you can see the photo of the camera in the guest elevator and watch the video showing the camera in the service elevator, and most important of all you can see the video of the stairwell and there are no cameras.
Intellihub Exclusive: On scene investigator banned from Mandalay Bay, MGM, for life AFTER HE DISCOVERED THIS!
(Someone might want to save all those images and videos in case they get taken down again.)
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
Do realize, that's the guy who presented "proof" he was banned, by showing a form that hadn't been filled out or signed. Also, it had the Mandalay Bay logo on it, while an official trespass warrant would only have the police information on it.
While he may be lying about that, you're right about the videos.. I'm just saying the conclusions he's made may be false since the claim "he's been banned" is used to try to give what he's showing some authenticity.. while simply being untrue.
People asked why it wasn't filled out and signed right away, and he never responded to them.
1 FelixTheRat11 2017-10-23
Not reading that book. Good job on the title though.
1 Billgonzo 2017-10-23
I just wanted to say that this is a fantastic approach to beimg constructive on this forum. I like how your post is well thought out and full of detail. This is an example of what post should look like on this sub, imo. There is a real idea here it is clearly something you have objectively researched. Thank you.
1 Silentbtdeadly 2017-10-23
After writing all that, reading through it to make sure it made sense.. my dumbass didn't think to check for typos in the title 😂🔫
But thanks, I figured enough time has passed that if any real revelations were going to drop, they would have by now. I tried to cover from start to finish, not to prove any one angle, but to show there's enough evidence to make anyone at least question his narrative specifically.
I also agree, I wish more effort was put into trying to paint a bigger picture, rather than someone basically say "what if" with no solid basis for asking the question itself.
This is much less, what if.. more discussing how his specific job/situation allowed him much more leeway for manipulation, and gave him access to a lot of elements that could make this a successful crime.
Do I think he was involved? Possibly. I'll let facts I can verify determine my opinion, rather than trying to just prove my suspicion correct.
My best guess would be that he recruited Paddock for whatever reason, or quite possibly vice versa.. Paddock would have benefited quite a bit Intel wise if he had someone working with him who worked in security. With that scenario, it's possible that Campos wasn't aware of the full plan, perhaps that's why it went wrong?
The only reason I could go with that, is my post shows why Campos would make the perfect patsy. If Paddock were able to get away, he could claim he sold his guns privately to Campos. Him having an escape plan is the only thing that would explain all of the explosives in his car.
I planned on using this post as a basis for that possibility.
1 BrewtalDoom 2017-10-23
It is sadly going that way more and more isn't it? It seems that reasonable people have fallen by the wayside and now we have these 'professional conspiracy theorists' who already seem to have everything figured out and now just need to try and twist any information to fit their pre-determined worldview. Rather than being critical thinkers, people are now completely abandoning reason in order to force their own bizarre narratives on the rest of us.
The number of people who look at youtube videos and just say , 'This doesn't make sense' as if that's evidence of anything is shocking. How many times do you see those words on here?
"It just doesn't make sense."
"Something doesn't add-up"
So say a bunch of people completely removed from a situation who don't have anything close to evidence to fall back on.
1 JesusChristUrStupid 2017-10-23
What data is out there though?