Get ready for apologists.

Been enough threads like that already. After people realize masons are tied to Hollywood and government, a bunch then started showing up here talking about joining and how cool their 'secrets ' are , and shit like that.

I couldn't tell if those were bots/scripts or real people with a script or actual Freemasons so scripted from indoctrination they all sounded the same.

It was surreal.

Never a dull moment here. The minute anything starts trending towards certain groups they all send out their P.R squads. Like that mason guy showing his sword collection the other day, saying it shows the 'great secret of freemasons' ,then leads everyone on a wild goose chase. That type of shit is just to get people interested to join to find these things out , and probably to get indoctrinated. This of course started after some posts about 33 and all the other Masonic symbolism showing up in the Vegas event.

Yeahhhh, the sword guy isn't with us, lol.

And no PR squad, just a couple nice guys in the /r/Freemasonry chat room. We get notified when you guys post something w/ the word mason in it.

This of course started after some posts about 33 and all the other Masonic symbolism showing up in the Vegas event.

LOL yeah... because the guy was on the 32nd floor, he was CLEARLY a 32* Mason? Even though you would agree that 99.999% of the time you guys are like 33 DEGREE IS HIDING STUFF

Isn't with you? Or is that just a secret too? Just a few nice brothers who are part of group conspiring with the elite, are the elite, and worship Lucifer. Lucifer is with you. Go be satanic on boards meant or that, your recruiting efforts here are desperate. Most here want to see groups that conspire against this nation to be disbanded and brought to justice.

Wait, I'm elite? Would you mind telling that to my boss? And where's my Hollywood movie check?

Just because you are compartmentalized should make you all the more questioning of the rest of the group. Low level masons do the PR work as usual. Top guys are sacrificing kids and running the f.b.I. at Vegas.

top guys are too busy falling asleep in lodge to be running anything

Wait, you know our Treasurer?

"zzzzzzZZZZZZZ! Oh, you need a prompt? Sorry, you we're doing so well with that lecture that I stopped following along!"

Oh.

See my Meme on the /r/freemasonry. Dude, where's my car?

Where's your car, dude?

See apparently I'm supposed to get a free car. I drive an 09 Dodge Caliber. I'm not thinking Rolls, but at least a Focus.

I could use some Hollywood dough too.

FWIW, we're not here to recruit you.

Ok, I'll ask, how & WTF do you get notified when someone post the word ma(s)on?

Our SUPER SECRET ILLUMINATI CHAT ROOM KNOWS ALL SEEING EYE YOU SHEEP.

Jk. But yes, in our chat room, it notifies when someone posts (not comments. But like, a new thread..) something with mason in it.

So this is what that BBQ money goes to...

Why?

Because it's pretty amusing to talk with y'all.

Isn't amusing conversation the purpose behind your fraternal brotherhood?

Weird you'd have to go outside the fraternal brotherhood for that. Kinda sad.

Amusing conversation is a byproduct of fraternal brotherhood - sometimes as a result of reminiscence of goofy things conspiracy theorists believe!

Nope. Nice try with the condescension though.

I know, right? Like we're not just some guys. We're apparently not allowed to bust balls with anyone who's not a Brother. Sad that we'd ever want to go out and mingle with people who don't understand what we're all about, but only kinda.

Are you actually seriously wondering if we get notified if someone posts the word mason Here?

And no PR squad, just a couple nice guys in the /r/Freemasonry chat room. We get notified when you guys post something w/ the word mason in it.

You have a chat room and a program that informs you whenever we talk about Freemasons?

Right? BUT ITS NOT PR!

Well Reddit bots link thread topics right across Reddit.

You have a chatroom too, it's called /conspiracy. Your or your admins could set it up for notifications when "Freemason" pops up elsewhere on Reddit, but then you'd just be flooded with mundane posts from our chatroom that don't fit your paradigm of Masons trying (or having succeeded) to take over the world.

Nice gang-stalking. Do you do this in real life, too?

I don't even do that in fake life.

Since the hotel doesn't have a 13th floor (a common omission), it may have said 32 on the elevator button, but he was actually on the 31st floor, American style, and the 30th, British style.

But what if /r/conspiracy is the bot and we're the real ones?!

You must be part of the delusion that conspiracy isn't real. It's very real. We like to question what you guys do. And if it's real or just make believe power.

What conspiracy?! Please. Name one that "we" were behind.

Excluding the (real and original) Tea Party.

I have a better sub for you to be at r/topmindsofreddit they will welcome you ' with arms wide open'

Kiteo, his eyes closed.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra!

Sokath - his eyes uncovered.

Possibly, but there's little evidence of it.

This is where they'll start changing the subject.

For the record, we never really said conspiracy wasn't really. Just that we aren't part of it.

I'm not convinced that the conspiracy is real, but I know we, as an organization (or rather a collection of independent organizations), have nothing to do with it.

And that's the point.

Then I'm a complete anomaly the code must eliminate.

Zion is this way, Neo....brother morpheus will guide you.

I always forget which pill I'm supposed to take.

There's always a mix of low level masons that think it's just a country club because they haven't killed anyone, and high level masons that are trying to get brownie points with the hierarchy by defending the craft.

I've gotten 3-4 comments from them today on a thread that happened days ago.

They are needy, like another group, I have top minds sending me stuff about r/SuperMinds still, and we all made fools of them like a month ago. Now they think they won because we shifted our attention to Vegas instead of their idiocracy. Real pathetic shit like that fills my box from these fools on a somewhat regular basis. But when you ignore them they feel unimportant, because they want you to join their warped ideals to validate them.

Lmao the fan mail for that sub is pretty great.

Omg ((they)) were beyond arbitrary. They were forced to shut down totes because we did the same cross posting game they were doing, only better. It was like three of us and we humiliated their whole board and mod team. They don't think it would take but 5 minutes to do it all over again? They are a group of the utmost hypocrites , and the irony there is endless. Their disadvantage is they believe the indoctrination so the remain at a sixth grade aptitude. It can be exploited at will if anybody wanted to.

That's fuckin hilarious! Sorry for the late reply, was busy all day.

Your supersub reminds me of a Velvet Underground lyric:

ill be your mirror/to reflect what you are/in case you don't know

After people realize masons are tied to Hollywood and government

Not as many as you'd think. They have better groups to belong to than ours.

a bunch then started showing up here

A handful of us hang out in a chat room during the day. It notifies us when you guys post something with the word "mason" in it.

talking about joining

Nope. Just trying to fix the BS some of yall talk about

how cool their 'secrets ' are , and shit like that.

LOL I assure you, we did no such thing.

Not as many as you'd think. They have better groups to belong to than ours.

Of course, super proud of our resident Oscar winner... Amirite?

Wait, who?

Don't want to dox in this thread. Check you pm..

Very cool for non-doxed guy.

It's good for us when Freemasons show up. They start lying, get exposed, and their true colors are shown. Freemasons are ignorant or lying.

Or you are. There's also that possibility.

You swore oaths to never tell the truth about Freemasonry. By definition, you are an untrustworthy source, both due to motivations and limitations. I reiterate, it's good for us when Freemasons like you show up, because it exposes the evils of the lodge.

Nope. My Oath was that I would not reveal the secrets of Masonry.

They being handshakes, passwords and signs. A allegory story and the obligation itself.

Thats's it. Anything and everything else is fair game. I mean LOOK at all the talking about freemasonry I have done. If I was supposed to be keeping such a big important secret you honestly think I could?

I'm a blabbermouth

If it's just an allegory, why do so many masons get killed for telling the truth?

Please give me an example of that happening and if you dare mention Morgan I'll remind you that there is no proof he didn't live out his days in Canada.

Came out a few weeks ago. I finished it this weekend. Not bad, but I figured out whodoneit about a third of the way into the book and the motive by the halfway mark.

And IIRC, the Masons only get mentioned once in this one — just a shoutout.

If it's just an allegory, why do so many masons get killed for telling the truth?

[CITATION NEEDED]

https://pics.me.me/arguing-withidiotsis-like-playing-chess-with-a-pigeon-no-matter-6005601.png

so many masons get killed for telling the truth

Like who? Real Masons please, not people you decided were Masons after they died, because they were trying to expose the system!!! (so obviously they were in on it and were killed for that reason, which makes them Masons because they were killed for being Masons)/handshakes I interpret as Masonic even though I'm not a Mason so really have no idea what I'm talking about/reasons!! (that don't include a legit Masonic Lodge somewhere saying Famous Guy is a Mason, and we're so proud of him, because he's one of ours - see any list of famous Freemasons ever).

You speak just like every other lying mason that shows up when I shine the light on you cockroaches. You assume anyone who exposes your mystery cult is ignorant (about which you are either ignorant or lying) and you never deal in facts.

Not impressed.

You clearly wouldn't know a fact if it offered to buy you coffee. I notice you couldn't provide the example requested.

Interesting, I can talk about the obligation, just the the thing to which the sign alludes. And obviously not the modes of recognition.

BTW, conspiracy guys, it's not that interesting. Don't hit each other, Furthermore don't defraud one another. Furthermore, don't bork a Brother's kinfolk. Blah blah blah.

I take it seriously, but it's not fun fodder for such a distinguished sub as this.

Did you know even our modes of recognition aren't the same?

Shocking, above average at best...

No we didn't.

Of course not.

Per my obligation, I'm not allowed to tell you modes of recognition, or secrets arts, parts, or points of the craft. There's a book that's got, word for word, the three obligations a Master Mason takes in my jurisdiction. It's printed, meaning it's NOT secret. I could literally take photographs of the pages and send them to you, but you're not someone I can trust to be upstanding (unlike many people whom I trust but are not Masons). I'm unwilling to put it on the internet.

If you see me on the street, ask me. I'll literally show you the book.

Continual reminder that every time you come here and lie about your disgusting "craft" it will always give a platform to anti-masons who will expose you as ignorant or (in your case) intentionally lying:

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will not speak evil of a Companion Royal Arch Mason, behind his back nor before his face, but will apprise him of all approaching danger, if in my power."

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will not strike a Companion Royal Arch Mason, so as to drew his blood, in anger." (Imagine what this means for police or military)

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will employ a Companion Royal Arch Mason in preference to any other person of equal qualifications,"

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong."

But I've never taken that obligations. How can I be lying? And if this is the best you've got.... Get over it?

Royal Arch Masons don't outrank Master Masons.

Even so, what community to which you belong tells you it's okay to speak evil of anybody, or hit people in anger?

Does your trade union allow you to employ non-members when members are available? Those words don't mean a more qualified non-brother would or should be passed over for employment. That's not the case for trade unions.

And those quotes, even if accurate, which I literally don't know anything about, are not quoted in the full context. Every obligation I've taken has more verbiage before and after that explain that there are limitations to the "furthermores." The "right or wrong" part is not "no matter what, even if it's illegal, or against your conscience or your faith."

This is, to use the unfortunate parlance of the times, "a nothing burger."

It's in the third degree:

"Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason's secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, murder and treason excepted."

"... until by strict trial, due examination or legal information I shall have found him or them as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself."

Elsewhere:

"Universal benevolence you are zealously to inculcate..."

In your obligating, "...there is nothing that will conflict with any duty you owe to God, your country, your family, your neighbor, or yourself."

If any of the things to which I oblige myself (in Masonry) conflict with any of these other obligations, the other obligations supercede my Masonic obligation.

Nothing burger.

That's not an obligation to lie.

I never said that. You can't even tell the truth about what I am saying right now. You're so used to lying that you think you can lie to me about what I said.

You swore oaths to never tell the truth about Freemasonry.

You didn't say our oaths require us "to never tell the truth about Freemasonry?"

Curiouser and curiouser.

I think we jumped timelines somewhere back in these last few days.

Have fun with your conspiracy theory. There are bad guys out there, and some have been Masons, but it's not "The Masons" who are the bad guys.

I now leave this conversation in no judgment of you, but only in discernment about how to spend my time talking with people.

Some of your theories about other things are correct, in my opinion, but you're dead wrong on this one, neighbor.

G'Day!

You swore oaths to never tell the truth about Freemasonry

Nope. I swore to never reveal the secrets of the Order: the signs, grips, and passwords.

You can find our rituals on the Internet. Look it up.

Nope. I swore to never reveal the secrets of the Order: the signs, grips, and passwords.

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will not speak evil of a Companion Royal Arch Mason, behind his back nor before his face, but will apprise him of all approaching danger, if in my power."

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will not strike a Companion Royal Arch Mason, so as to drew his blood, in anger." (Imagine what this means for police or military)

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will employ a Companion Royal Arch Mason in preference to any other person of equal qualifications,"

"I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong."

What is the relation between lying about Freemasonry and not striking someone in anger? Are you so fanatical about your conspiration theory that you are willing to say anything, even if it's completely unrelated to your own arguments, in order to keep your delusions in place?

Anyways, I do not belong to a Freemasonry tradition in which the Royal Arch degree exists, so those oaths are not part of my masonic path, and never will.

Are you so fanatical about your conspiration theory

Typical masonic misdirection. You're literally using CIA talking points that were used to cover up the murder of JFK and thinking it's going to work on me. You're an esoteric mason (allegedly) you should know better than to succumb to faulty logic, the cardinal sin of occultists.

Typical masonic misdirection

And yet, the one who said that freemasons swear to never tell the truth about Freemasonry, and proceeded to give zero evidence about this claim, even after reading the ritual of some of the highest degrees in American Freemasonry, is you.

This is your whole argument in a nutshell:

saying that other people are liars

lying

You're literally using CIA talking points that were used to cover up the murder of JFK

Haha, oh wow.

proceeded to give zero evidence about his claim

You're lying to me about what I said. Do you realize how fucking crazy you sound, when you lie to my face about what I said?

Part of the reason Freemasonry is immoral because it trains the initiates (you) on offensive use of rhetoric, while retaining the defensive use of rhetoric training for the adepts and sages. The ethical teacher shows the student the defensive use of rhetoric, to avoid unsound thinking, and reserves the offensive use of rhetoric for a cause that is just (Read Plato's Republic sometime).

You are quite literally self-deceived.

OperationGladioB 1 punto Hace 3 días

You swore oaths to never tell the truth about Freemasonry

You are OperationGladioB, right?

Were you high, or drunk, when you posted this claim three days ago?

Do you genuinely not understand that "you lied too!" is not a defense to being proven a liar?

Do you genuinely not understand that "you lied too!" is not a defense to being proven a liar?

A crazy person, then.

I thought to myself "no one can be this bad at staying on topic" so I looked through your history, and it's clear that you know exactly what you're doing.

Keep posting here, because I only need to get a person to look at the facts one time and they'll be won over to my side. You have to maintain the lie forever.

What lie?

Everything you say has deceptive intent and we both know it.

Everything you say has deceptive intent and we both know it.

Nope. Everything I said was 100% honest. Why would you think otherwise?

Everything I said was 100% honest.

Mkay.

Mkay.

You know? A liar thinks everyone lies.

But seriously, I was 100% hones.

Do you mean people with first hand knowledge that contradicts your basement/chatroom suspicions?

We've got nothing to apologize for.

Prolly oughta mention that to the self-titled ones vocalizing it.

I've seen plenty of "you have the wrong idea about who we are/what we do," but not much in the way of "I'm sorry for what we do/have done."

Freemasons =/= Illuminati/NWO/shadowy conspiracy to control the world.

How about The Rothshits, Burgerbuilders & Illuminutty.

Crazarians.

If you mean the Rothschilds, Bilderberg Group, and the so-called Illuminati, how about them? Some few might also be Freemasons. Some few might also belong to your church/religion, have attended your college, wear your favourite brand of shoes, or enjoy your favourite Taco Bell menu item. Does that make you one of them? (If you don't believe in God/didn't go to college/don't wear shoes/don't eat at Taco Bell, assume "you" means any other member of this sub who does those things.)

'Brotherhood'

Sounds more like a night out with my non-Masons friends, but sure. We can poke fun at ourselves too. That is a classic collection of comics.

Masonic Brain

OK, that funny. Upvote complete.

hahahaha.. the secret is out!!

Shiny objects centre needs to be way bigger!

Can't see the link, apparently someone has exceeded their bandwidth limit. Can you elaborate? Apparently it's quite humorous.

in the end all of these groups worship satan

Lucifer. Which is really the worship of knowledge and keeping that knowledge secret.

right. but there is also the rituals and mental shit they do that is also luciferian

In order to gain hidden knowledge they must summon dark ethereal beings who are more than willing to give it and or deceive you for a price. That is where the rituals come in. This process is unnatural and one rips apart their soul by doing so. Universal knowledge is very powerful in the physical realm but the process descends your being in the ethereal realm.

so using this knowledge is detrimental but can one die in the ethereal? I would love to start practicing magik and using it against the evil ones.

Holy shnikeies. You believe that?

I know it.

How?

I've studied it for years and have seen first hand what meddling where one should not meddle does to people.

I'm now more scared of you than you of me.

Nothing to be afraid of. I always stay on the side of light.

So I get asked this: How would you know?

How would I know what?

Which side you're on.

14 year old detected

I hope you realize that name calling shows your own age and maturity. I'm well over 40 years old just so you know.

wow.

Must've been absent that day at the Lodge. Of course I rarely miss a meeting if I'm in town, but obviously you know more than me from all the Lodge meetings you've attended.

What in particular are you talking about? Do you have an example?

No examples. Only vagaries and unfounded rumours and accusations.

Why do people still think that....

because they do.

mind blown.

Wow man... slow claps... thank you. (sarcasm)

I can't believe I've been a Mason for years, have done all the degrees, belong to a few invitational orders only, and have never heard any talk about satan in lodge. Sooo yeah...

aaaand Commandery (Knights Templar) is a Christian only order. How do you justify that? They're only pretending?

Why do some people still not see that....

37 comments and not a single serious answer yet.

You should do your own research as to why people believe that, there is plenty of information out there. It would take a whole lot of typing to explain it.

Thank you for another worthwhile contribution /s.

Do please come back when you think of something. I'll be in /r/freemasonry

Only the Masons at the very highest echelons would be knowledgable about it, anyway. If you want to understand why people feel this way, it starts with understanding that people believe TPTB have their own religion where the worship Moloch/Satan/whatever you want to call him. I could expand a lot on this, but I'd rather not type it all out when it is readily available online. Next, people see the Masons as a tool of TPTB. Hopefully you can connect the dots.

Only the Masons at the very highest echelons would be knowledgable about it, anyway.

And you know about it how?

Because there are lots of Masons, and it wouldn't be much of a secret if they were all privy to it. That also works as a front for the actual secret elements of the society.

No, how do you know about this? Very strange that you'd choose to violate your vows after such a long time in the fraternity.

Its called a conspiracy theory. I don't have direct evidence, its just what I believe is probably true based on things I've read.

TL;DR: feelz not realz

It was only 2 sentences lol. Try not to be so defensive.

Sir, try not to be so offensive.

You guys are legitimately incorrect about this thing about which we care deeply and about which we know much, much more than do you. We're telling you the truth. You're telling us we're lying.

Are there bad guys who are Masons? Probably, yes. But those guys aren't acting Masonically. Just like there are guys out there who aren't Masons, but do act Masonically, though literally none of you who think you're entitled to sit here and be in judgment of other people.

If my beliefs are so offensive to you, maybe just try not to care so much about what others think? I think you don't know the truth, and I'm honestly not very certain myself. I'd be a fool if I said I knew for sure that I was correct.

And I'm not saying that I think Masons are bad people, I think most of them are actually probably very good people who join for good reasons. I also understand why my beliefs are insulting to you, but I can't help that that what I think.

As an aside and because I'm curious, why do you think it is required that you believe that there is only one God? Why can you not be a Mason if you believe in many gods?

You can sit there and tell people not to be defensive, but when people advise you not to be offensive your counter advice is to not care so much? Why do you care to accuse people of treachery? Why don't you just not care so much?

I couldn't give a shit about what you think, but (a) Masonry teaches us to care about our fellow humans (even if they don't understand, notice, or appreciate it), and (b) that wouldn't change the fact that you are wrong about what Masonry is.

Now I'll happily go away and not care so much if you politely go away and stop accusing people of things which you know literally nothing about.

You can believe in many Gods, but that's jurisdictional. Most polytheistic religions still have a single Creator-ish God. We literally, in my jurisdiction, don't ask what the person's religion is. We just require that they profess a faith in a higher power, basically so they can't say "I'm God."

Now as to people who profess to worship Satan (and I know zero people who have said they do), they would then theoretically believe in God, too, unless they literally think Satan created the universe.

I know there are some who are Odinists, who identify with Thor, but still recognize that in their religion Odin was the main guy, so to speak.

Ultimately it's about humility.

You can be a woman and a mason in Europe. It’s very open. Also your belief in something read over the internet looks like a religion in itself, it’s very strange.

I don't just believe what I read. I am actually very skeptical. I also don't think that you have any better idea than I do, because regular Masons would act as a sort of front for this group.

you clearly do believe what you read. you read some nutbrained conspiracy theory, and now base a world view on it.

Do I? Tell me more about how I think.

you can be a woman and a mason in canada, or the usa, or most anyplace, just not in the UGLE branch of masonry.

So if I sort of "believe" you're a pedophile (I mean, you're a guy on the internet after all, and the internet is all porn, and all porn is basically pedophilia, especially since the "actresses" starting shaving their ladybits - that's how logical progression works, right?), even if I'm not really sure about it, you think I should go online and start spreading rumours I made up (or read about someone else) regarding your obscene and illegal behaviours, just in case it might turn out to be true? Would that be insulting to you? Would you care what I was writing, especially if I had more information about you than just your screen name? What if I sent my suspicions to your boss, or your mom? (Because my boss and my mom both know I'm a Mason, though they're not entirely sure what that means, beyond what I tell them and what they read online.) Because I can't help but think that since you're on the internet (following the "logical" progression I've outlined above) you're a confirmed pedophile (but I'm not, because I know I don't use the internet for that sort of thing).

Its a large, old, and secretive organization. People are going to discuss it online and come up with different theories. There's nothing you can do about that, and I suggest you guys try to stop concerning yourselves with it if it bothers you that much.

It's large and old. Not particularly secretive, and all our secrets are online, if you can distinguish them from the pure speculation made up by people such as yourselves.

It's a little difficult to "stop concerning" myself with people badmouthing an organization into which I've put a lot of time, care, and effort and by extension myself, as a member of said organization. It would be a bit different if you were using actual facts to bad-mouth us, but you're just making shit up and then saying "well, it could maybe be true, couldn't it?" The former is much more difficult, as there aren't many, especially as pertains to the organization, rather that certain individuals, while the latter is little more than schoolyard name-calling, with the larger problem that (much like you trying to spot our exposed secrets) those who come later might mistake your speculation for fact, which reflects poorly on me.

To be honest, your argument of "ignore it if it bothers you," isn't terrible advice, but the other side of that that we often see here is "if it weren't true, someone would have said so." I'm here to say so.

You don't seem to understand the conspiracy, though. It isn't that regular Masons secretly worship Satan, but that the Masons are a legitimate organization that acts as a front for the leaders at the very top of the organization who do. And that would be kept a secret from regular Masons. So you can tell me that I'm wrong, but how would you know?

I get that this offends you, but I like to think about these things. For example, I'm Catholic and I have my suspicions about our current Pope. I think he might be part of this same, more insular secret group. There, I've badmouthed my own organization! So at least I'm not a hypocrite, right?

I know the "top leaders" in Freemasonry in a number of jurisdictions. Nice guys. Most don't wield any sort of political power, generally just retired middling-successful businessmen with families, though I do know a few low-level guys that are running for local office. That's how I know. The only thing that offends me is that you're throwing around these accusations without a shred of proof.

I think the problem is that you don't understand the structure of Freemasonry. It can't work the way you think it does, and I'll explain why below.

Let's just say for a minute that there is some shadowy organization trying to control the world behind the scenes (and honestly, if there was a Pope who was part of it, it would've been Benedict XVI...that dude was creepy a-f - and I was raised Catholic as well), and the top people there are also "top" Freemasons. How is that a cover for anything? They can't make us do much of anything (again, see below), as their influence doesn't extend outside of the Lodge. We can't be funnelling money towards their nefarious purposes, because books are kept at every level and regularly reports made, major expenditures (like the London air ambulances) are accounted for, new Treasurers are elected regularly, and any embezzlement is inevitably found out (it has been known to happen even to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, though it's not particularly common) - besides, aren't they already supposed to be fabulously wealthy? Why aren't they Rotarians or Oddfellows or something instead/as well...you almost never hear conspiracies about those guys. But let's assume they are there, how does Masonry play into it? If they're just saying they're Masons to hide their attendance at Bilderberg type meetings by playing them off as Masonic meetings 1) Masons would notice when they say they're attending Masonic meetings but don't actually show up or 2) plenty of "regular" Masons would also be attending those meetings and seeing what going on (visiting other Lodges is one of the best "privileges" of Masonry, visiting Masons are almost always welcomed into Lodges), so there goes the top-level conspiracy, and even if they went to those meetings and other Masons didn't find out and want to go, you have now separated them from the organization - they are now individuals who run the shadow government, but also happen to be Masons, and happen to be Ivy League alumni, and happen to be residents of Pittsburgh, and happen to be in Tuesday night bowling league. That doesn't make the conspiracy extend to all Ivy League graduates (Skull and Bones conspiracies excepted), nor all residents of Pittsburgh, nor all player in the Tuesday night bowling league, so why does it extend to all Masons/Masonry as an organization?

In your Pope example, I can see where being some kind of clergy, especially "high-level" clergy, could give cover to someone who needs to travel to secret shadow government meetings or whatever, but Masonry isn't a full-time career like that. It would be much easier to use "generic businessman" as a cover, with less people to explain why you didn't bump into Bro. so and so at the Masonic conference you said you were at, because "I just talked to him and he said he didn't see you there," not to mention additionally needing time off from whatever mundane day job you have/pretend to have while hiding your true power and influence. Also the fact that the Freemason conspiracy precludes any women in the shadow government (at least in the English-speaking world) - so much for Hillary or Condi Rice being in on it.

I'm still struggling to see what part Masonry as an organization plays in your conspiracy, as opposed to just a "hobby" conspirators might have in common, so perhaps you can elaborate. But before you do, here's my explanation of why it can't work the way I think you probably think it does. "Top level Masons" are mostly democratically elected, changing every year or two...or more often progressing from junior top leadership to senior top leadership over a period of 3-5 years (except in England, where a Royal is the figurehead, but the elected people below him do 99.9% all the work in his name while he is off doing Royal things). Each jurisdiction (individual states/provinces in large countries like the US, Canada, Brazil, and Australia, or at a national level in most countries) elects its own "top leadership," which is independent of each other jurisdiction. There is no World Masonic Council governing everything we do - the closest are a few international conferences/conventions that operate a little along the lines of the UN: recommendations can be made, but no one can really tell anyone else what they can or can't do in their own jurisdiction, with the primary penalty for not going along with generally agreed upon recommendations being a withdrawal of "fraternal recognition" between jurisdictions which amounts to "my mom says I can't play at your house anymore, and you're not allowed to come over to mine either," or, continuing the UN metaphor, visa/passport/immigration bans. Those elected top level Masons can influence Masonic policy, such as which public charities might benefit from our member donations, the minimum cost and time required to become a member and other things like that which occur within Lodges, but anything put forth by one "top leader" can easily be reversed or amended by his successor. More recently, like many companies with their employees, they might express an opinion on what sort of things their members can comment on online, as Freemasons, which might be seen as somewhat limiting free speech, but again this is both quite new and also common among employers as we've seen from people getting fired after being doxxed following attendance at Nazi/"nationalist" and/or Antifa rallies. What "top level" Freemasons can't do is influence political thought among our members, nor use our members as political capital, nor tell you how to spend or (with a few sort of prohibition-related exceptions in the US) how to earn your money, except that it should be within legal bounds. Serious legal transgressions will get you kicked out of Lodge, pretty much the most severe punishment at our disposal. Political discussion is banned in Lodges (for reasons of it being divisive among members with differing opinions; religious discussion is banned for the same reason) making it hard to sway people on issues, and a good recent example re: political capital is the Grand Loge Nationale de France - the elected Grand Master there promised the support of his Grand Lodge/all the Freemasons under him to a particular political candidate, which seems the sort of thing you might be concerned about, top Masons telling everyday Masons how to vote. The immediate reaction from the rest of the Masonic world was to cut ties with them, disavowing them as "regular/recognized" Masons and suspending cross-jurisdictional privileges, and this suspension of "fraternal relations" continued basically until the GLNF elected a new leader and issued a statement to other jurisdictions saying that they would not go down that road again. Similarly, while a member might run for political office, he can't show up to a Lodge to give a political speech to a group of Masons, nor can he say things like "since I'm Worshipful Master of the Lodge (or whatever Grand Lodge office he might hold), you have to vote for me in the upcoming civic election." So Grand Lodges can't get involved in politics, "top level" Freemasons can't use their position to rally political support, and they can't really tell you what to do in your daily life. We are admonished to obey the Master and Wardens of our Lodge and/or edicts of Grand Lodge insomuch as their orders pertain to the duties of their office...which only concerns things in the Lodge. With these limitations in mind, what sort of influence do you think a "top level" Mason can wield over the organization in terms of your grand conspiracy concept? Again, as an individual, anyone can do anything outside of Freemasonry (and occasional unsavoury/unethical individuals do slip in to our organization, as in most others), but you don't need to be a Mason to act as an individual.

How is the organization a "front" for your hypothetical conspirators? (And I hope you have a better answer than "I don't know because it's a secret" because as a member, I'm privy to our secrets, and I have no idea what form your alleged conspiracy could take to be an effective use of our organization for nefarious purposes, which leaves you with little more than "but what if there is something?" What if I'm a robot? What if my wife is a lizard person? What if my cat is a dog? What if up is down?) I'd really like to understand your concerns here.

This is the question to every claim that Masons are somehow taking over the world. Never seen an answer either. I'd love to be enlightened though.

Which end? I have yet to see that. At the 32° in Scottish Rite Masonry the philosophy still encourages us to be active in our churches. (On the other "side" in York Rite Masonry, the Knights Templar are required to defend the Christian faith from attacks by non-Christians, and they're at the top of that group.) Friends and family at the 33° assure me it doesn't suddenly change there...not that I know anyone who wouldn't immediately quit if it did, myself included, and I don't consider myself particularly Christian, despite being raised as such.

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Most Mason's at your local lodge are good men and do charitable events and the majority probably have little to no knowledge of the occult so careful with your pitch fork and jumping to conclusions based on numbers and symbols. We have to look at both sides of the coin and it's contents. The knowledge at the top of secret societies that we know little about and assume it's all negative and assume that there's not positive way to use knowlage and watch YouTube videos of people that also have little esoteric and occult knowledge also doing the same thing will keep us in ignorance. Check out the modern alchemist on YouTube be open minded

My dad once said, "we're all The Masons, we all build with or hands, right?".

But seriously, the only difference between us and them, is that so many of us are ignorant of the true nature of reality and therefore abdicate our rights and responsibilities to "them".

And yes, a good attitude and healthy sense of humor will only help to bridge that knowledge gap.

Masons aren't really the problem though. Maybe most people that are the problem are also masons, but freemasonry in itself isn't the same as "the illuminati." As others have noted, most masons are literally just normal people with jobs and family's who are basically in a grown up fraternity.

All right. Get ready. I'm going to reveal what happens in our meetings. Brothers, bring me up on charges and kick me out if you must.

You know those fish fry's that we keep having? You're right. It's all about controlling your mind. We are making you prefer Atlantic Cod over Catfish. And it's all in an effort to take your money so we can use it for the nefarious purposes of allowing us to argue over what color the new carpet will be, how thick the padding on the new chairs should be, and whether or not Brother Junior Warden will be reimbursed for the chili he made last meeting that caused Brother Junior Deacon to crap himself.

Those are our secrets. Do with them what you will.

This is real.

Speak for yourself. We're a Spaghetti and Casserole lodge. None of your clandestine fish, thankyouverymuch!

I am missing out on the fish as well. I might have to look into changing that when I am in charge of the food.

I agree and laughed wholeheartedly at your flea mason labeling proposal

Most free masons are good people.

Most people are good people. Some aren't. Some are assholes or worse.

Coming here from /r/freemasonry.

You guys are hilarious :-)

Not a free mason but where I come from the free masons rent out their huge lodge for bog weddings and such... totally what a world dominating cult would be fine with

"Freemason" is one word.

Yupp. Building rental obviously equals world domination. The two really go hand in hand.

Now all I can think of is fleas dressing up in cute ceremonial garb.

Reminds me of Howie Mandel in The Princess Who Never Laughed —- it’s exactly what he did. Made jokes about the aristocracy TO the aristocracy and they laughed until they realized....that’s..... that’s US he’s mimicking. (It’s an age old story but the Mandel and Burkin version for Fairy Tale Theatre was a gem.)

Crazarians.

Kiteo, his eyes closed.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

That's fuckin hilarious! Sorry for the late reply, was busy all day.

Your supersub reminds me of a Velvet Underground lyric:

ill be your mirror/to reflect what you are/in case you don't know

If you mean the Rothschilds, Bilderberg Group, and the so-called Illuminati, how about them? Some few might also be Freemasons. Some few might also belong to your church/religion, have attended your college, wear your favourite brand of shoes, or enjoy your favourite Taco Bell menu item. Does that make you one of them? (If you don't believe in God/didn't go to college/don't wear shoes/don't eat at Taco Bell, assume "you" means any other member of this sub who does those things.)

Possibly, but there's little evidence of it.