Here is the first story from it https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/donald-trumps-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-and-his-russian-business-ties/

Shocking. Said no one whose head hasn't been lodged up Trump's ass.

people whose head hasn't been lodged up Trump's ass

I'm afraid /r/conspiracy has been running a little short of those people lately

You guys are idiots with this shit. It would be impossible for Trump supporters to not know Trump puts high level CEOs in office because you kids bitch about it incessantly. When things like this come up of course one or more of those guys are going to have money in there. No one is shocked on either side. People that make tons of money try to avoid taxes.

The big shockers are the Hollywood actors and the "public servants" who's salary is listed in the low hundreds of thousands that have millions rolling though these things.

You guys go for such low hanging fruit to catch a bit of karma or blow off steam. Come up with something original other than "Trumperdumpers are all over conspiracy!!!" or "omg trumpeteers are just gonna act like this didn't happen"

We want this shit gone as bad as you guys. The more tax these douche bags pay the better our country is. Get your heads out of your ass.

You're right about politicians but why the fuck would I give a shit where Hollywood actors hide their money?

I assumed they hide it under the pedistal they put themselves on. Maybe the soap box they tend to stand on and preach to the world of humanitarianism.

There aren't many pure Hollywood people untarnished by the plague of political or humanitarian preaching any more. Quite a few, hypocritically so.

I'm asking why focus on that when we may have proof of politicians hiding money they don't want people asking questions about. Genuine corruption by those in power is far more pressing than some Hollywood hypocrites.

Also they don't create the pedestal or the soapbox, millions of fawning idiots do, I don't see the problem with so many choosing to use that influence to support causes they believe in. Sure Bono is a cunt, but there's probably a good few people alive today because of money he raised, something I can't say about myself.

Its a psy-op being pushed on here recently. I mentioned it in a thread about how trump was innocent in this whole mess and got my comment downvoted until it wasn't visible.

Absolutely

It's been such a frustrating transition. These last 6 months or so have been really rough around here.

I don't have as much of a penchant for conspiracies as some of you guys, but I've always enjoyed coming here to see what's being talked about, and getting different perspectives on stories, but lately it's almost become an unusable subreddit because of the undying admiration of Trump.

I don't mean to tell people what to do, but it seems to me that a conspiracy subreddit should never admire the most powerful man in the world and regurgitate his talking points.

it seems to me that a conspiracy subreddit should never admire the most powerful man in the world and regurgitate his talking points.

insane that this is a controversial opinion

I really don't think it is, among American humans. A lot of Trump supporters on reddit don't fall into that category, though.

JFK was the most powerful man in the world, and this subreddit admires him.

probably because his brain went missing under the care of the US government after he was assassinated in broad daylight.

JFK wanted to remove the next “most powerful people in the world”, aka the federal reserve and the cia. So no shit we admire him.

The silver certificate thing is BS. That was on its way out before he was elected. The CIA into the wind thing is probably one of the reasons though.

My point was not that we shouldn't admire JFK - I certainly do - my point was that being the most powerful shouldn't disqualify you from admiration. In the odd case, it's earnable.

oh then we agree lol, it sounded like you were arguing for us to admire trump. He has nothing compared to JFK

Haha yes we do. It is a rare president that is at an admirable level. Andrew Jackson, JFK yes. Trump no.

post mortem. I would probably admire the way Trump's brain splattered, had someone shot him in the middle of the 5th avenue or whatever

Who, exactly is regurgitating talking points? People here should spend more time looking in a mirror.

Those people do exist sadly but a lot of that is artificial.

i dont doubt that youre correct, but their voices are so outsized it is impossible to ignore. I like calling them out on it, and since theyve built their arguments on bullshit they quickly turn to shill calling and bad logic

👏👏👏

I would maybe, MAYBE be a tiny bit more understanding if Trump was doing an awesome job but he has accomplished nothing!! All he's done is create complete and utter chaos in the country, and not the good kind chaos that could lead to positive change. He's just mentally unstable and thinks he's on a TV show..

Nah nothing at all. Just taking care of Veterans, Foreign Trade, Immigration and Government Deregulation, to name a few.

But muh Russia!

Killed TPP, already rolling back Title IX overreaches.

If that was the complete list then I'd still be satisfied.

Just trying to give my perspective as someone who voted for him and continues to support him. Doesn't mean he's untouchable to me. The odds that he would be worse than the alternatives were just so vanishingly low....

If we ever had a POTUS who was legitimately trying to make America a a better place and take power away from the manipulative folks who've been running things for a while, how do you think those folks would try to take him down?

Do you think that they'd use their propagandist media control to convince the malleable populace that he's mentally unstable and completely ineffective? Do you think they'd astroturf social media? Do you think they'd try to prevent him from getting anything done with a strong message of "RESIST" and getting the corrupt members of both parties to prevent anything from passing? Would they use their Hollywood mouthpieces to convince idiots that Trump is a fascist?

Because that's exactly what's happening. Whether or not Trump is a good man trying to do good things and get our country back on track I can't say for sure, but there is plenty of evidence that this is how the PTB are treating him. Anyone saying "lol he's the President and therefore he can't be trusted so all of his supporters are retarded" are shills or fools regurgitating their shitty arguments.

Almost every time I’ve posted her I’ve been down voted and called names from extremely anti-trump users.

Idk. I mean, we're both just using anecdotal evidence, and I'm not going to tell you that your experience is wrong or whatever.

But it just seems that this was a much healthier and more reasonable subreddit a few years ago, with a huge change coming in about the last 6 months.

I notice a complete unwillingness to talk about the conspiracies/controversies surrounding the Trump admin, despite the abundance of suspicious activity.

Well said. What’s bothered me about this sub is the hyper politicized nature of the conspiracies. I get that there’s a political angle to a lot of theories, but the us v them was establishment/big brother/whatever against we the people. Now the rhetoric is us v us which is such bullshit because we all know that’s what they want. Being opposed to the left right paradigm is what was appealing about this sub, then along come these hyper politicized fucks with their obviously biased conspiracy theories and change this sub. I am confident though that it won’t last forever.

They are going throught the stages of grief. There is denial, they will deny or deflect everything. There is bargaining, and making up excuse. Then there is anger. And embrassement. There is this misguided notion that you are less of person for admitting that you are wrong. That is not true, you are more of an admirable human being you can admit you are wrong. There is no shame in that. It is okay to be wrong about something. They are defensive because they are anxious, and feel guilt or shame. We have a tendency to ridicule them, but that just adfirms their misguided notion that they are right and that other side is evil. We need yo accept them and be patient with them. Ask them if they have any questions, or just listen to them.

Totally agree with evrything you said by the way

All of that is very human and understandable even, but for these supposed hardnosed cynical conspiracy experts to swoon over a moronic pig man is just too much even for me to believe into...

Agreed. I have extreme empathy, so it kind of drives me wild sometimes. I am just saying dont attack, because they are on the defense. We descalate for us to have a normal dialogue.

I'll listen to any well reasoned argument. I even watched a couple of videos by the flat earthers (they're ridiculous, btw).

I see very little of anything resembling reason by the drumpfers here.

I don't think it's the stages of grief, I think it's more cognitive dissonance

Found the projection sufferer here folks!

I was a hardcore liberal for life. I voted for Bernie in the primaries (whoops!) and Jill Stein in the general. I thought Trump was a buffoon but, to my credit, I knew Hillary was worse.

At this point I would like to say that I absolutely admit I was wrong. Trump is not a buffoon - in fact he's a goddamn genius. His persona is a tool he uses, and he uses it well. There is a reason he faced off against the Republican AND Democratic establishments and came out on top -- it's because he knows exactly what he's doing.

I bitched in comments about how we got the refugees from the Donald subreddit, got downvited tk oblivion and called stupid.

Now people realize that it's true. This sub used to be really good, open topic discussion no matter How outlandish the theory.

You mean the majority of this sub?

The people whose heads are up in that don't say "shocking!" they say "PodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaPodestaHillary!"

Oh stfu dude stop with the trump shit

Drip drip drip.

At least you're not angry.

Only if Trump stops shitting on us.

Daddy Trumpy fighting the deep state for baby? He will make everything better for baby won't he?

You were conned. He won and you lost. Everyone lost save those who want to rob the peasantry.

So 1/3 of the sub?

So would you have chosen Hillary or Jeb over Trump?

The election was a year ago. If all you can point to is "he is not as evil as the other guys!" then you are setting the bar pretty fucking low. Keep your head in the sand if you can't handle having voted for a con man

Which con has negatively impacted your life?

Nobody cares about the average man!

Nobody can make America great again!

Vote for Mr. Nobody 2020!

Here we go

An organization funded by Soros' Open Society focusing solely on a Trump person. Who would have guesses.

Also who would have guessed a guy in the international shipping business would have associations with a foreign countries?

They aren't focusing solely on a Trump person, he was one of many including the Queen of England, Justin Trudeau, and others. Here is the link https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/

I was specifically addressing the article linked to Soros' funded organization by the person I commented to.

Looked more like you were engaged in correcting the wrong-think of someone noticing the connections to Daddy.

You are spoon fed info from a Soros funded organization about documents that are not public therefore can not be verified .. You are so gullible.

You mean like very leak?

It not a leak if you can not view it yourself.

Lol WTF are you talking about? You can't even form a coherent sentence. You keep deflecting to Soros and it's sad. Trump got caught with yet another connection to Russia. Trump Russia connection. Trump Russia connection

https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/ Oh look who is on the funding list. Are these damning document available for you to verify what is said your self? No.

And? Yet nobody identified in the papers has come out to day it's fake, have they? Perhaps if a random person posted this on 4chan then it would be more believable

Dozens of people are resigning all over the world, check the sticky at /r/PanamaPaper. Are you saying this leak is fake?

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I'm just saying we shouldn't allow a Soros funded media source to tell us what they say. https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/

Yeah, right.

https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/ Notice Soros' Open Society Foundation

So what?

The username checks.

You mean you were specifically deflecting from the actual issue of the Paradise Papers and connections between Wilbur Ross, the Secretary of Commerce and Vladimir Putin to prop up the Soros conspiracy.

you were specifically deflecting from the actual issue of the Paradise Papers

You mean the info from the ICIJ, which is funded by Soros' Open Society Foundation, that is not public and therefore can not be verified?

Bonnie Raitt also donates, does that mean she is directing their actions? The Ford Foundation is also a donor.

Non-profit organizations live on donations.

The information is legit enough that multiple independent newspapers also reported the story. Quit deflecting from the facts to focus on an empty conspiracy about Soros. He doesnt control the ICIJ's actions anymore than Bonnie Raitt does.

The information is legit enough that multiple independent newspapers also reported the story.

Yes they all got said info from the Soros funded source.

No, they got it from a non profit organization of which Soros is one of thousands of donors.

By your logic no source is legit if they get paid or receive funding. What matters is the actual evidence. Again, you are deflecting from the FACTS in the story to prop up a conspiracy theory.

you are deflecting from the FACTS

Facts come with source evidence, not secret paper no one else can view.

Except you can view the source materials:

https://www.icij.org/investigations/paradise-papers/

You do realize those are articles that do not contain source material right?

You do realize they include an index to search which shows connections to other individuals and organizations and the ability to download the source and look at the actual business registrations, right?

Or did you not actually look?

Fancy graphic do not equal readable paradise papers or even the one the info came from.

Now you're just being obtuse because you dont want to admit you were wrong.

Download the source. There's actual evidence here. There is none to support your conspiracy theory other than funding of the parent non-profit by Open Source and thousands of other donors. There is no evidence you can bring to suggest or show Soros had any influence on the outcome or reporting of the story. For all we know it was a donation made to reduce his taxes.

You are choosing to ignore hard and direct evidence for this story to make allusions to an entirely different conspiracy theory based on circumstantial evidence and a motive you cant explain or prove.

You've got that exactly backwards. The German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung obtained the data and shared it with the ICIJ, who shared it with over 700 journalists of multiple other newspapers who then spent over a year independently working on articles. ICIJ is not the source of the data and not the source of the articles.

If you can explain to me how Soros via a donation through a charitable foundation (which is a donor, not a founder of ICIJ) influenced several hundred journalists of multiple highly acclaimed international newspapers who are not paid or employed by the ICIJ and who at least in case of Süddeutsche Zeitung had access to the data first, I'd be really surprised.

It is public and posted on their website. They work under the Center for Public Integrity. They've won Pulitzer Prizes.

It is public

Link? Because the papers are NOT public.

They work under the Center for Public Integrity. They've won Pulitzer Prizes.

Oh the authority says they are trust worthy. Always trust authority right?

I trust evidence. Not spurious arguments based on assumptions without any evidence.

Large difference.

The papers are public, if you took the time to scroll down they provide a searchable index. You can also view the Panama Papers. Again, there is verifiable evidence and sources to this story. Quit deflecting from the evidence to prop a conspiracy theory you have no evidence for.

Soros funded. Like Jared Kushner. Who owes Soros a lot of money.

The Soros funded group controls the info. You have no way of verifying it. Maybe wait a couple days instead of jumping on the first anti-Trump bandwagon you see.

Invoke your bogey man all you want. If the Deep State exists they wanted Trump. That is why he won. To divide the nation.

“Thanks for correcting the record” that’s what y’all say at times like these, right?

You are spoon fed info from a Soros funded organization about documents that are not public therefore can not be verified .. You are so gullible.

I call bullshit.

If you look at the very bottom of the comment section completely down voted into oblivion...

You are being spoon fed info from a Soros funded organization about documents that are not public therefore can not be verified . https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/

That's it folks. bizmarxie has called bullshit. Pack it up and go home.

The commerce department is one of many useless swamps that could be eliminated entirely.

Yeah, who knew Trump would actually drain the swamp... because him and his people are so corrupt that the rest of the world would combine intelligence to oust them.

So much winning.

You have no idea what Commerce does, do you?

Might as well get rid of the executive branch too.

I give it 24 hours before this sub is downvoting or deleting any links/posts about this into oblivion because "no credible evidence!". The connections between Trump associates and Russia is one of the biggest conspiracies of this generation and this sub doesn't want to hear about it. Lol

The connections between Trump associates and Russia is one of the biggest conspiracies of this generation and this sub doesn't want to hear about it. Lol

Haha, not 9/11, wmd, erosion of our civil liberties, cia black sites... Fuck, Obama care (a 90's rightwing heathcare bill beloved by liberals) has had a bigger impact on society than Trump's ties to Russia. With that said, it's worth looking at.

Russia has a pretty big impact considering the fact that they helped get trump elected. Something like 2/3 of Americans saw those Russian bought ads on Facebook. You don't think that had an impact on the election?

Russia has a pretty big impact considering the fact that they helped get trump elected.

Haha, did they hack the election or perge votes?

Something like 2/3 of Americans saw those Russian bought ads on Facebook. You don't think that had an impact on the election?

I'd like to see this russian propaganda that 200 million people saw that were convinced by them to vote Trump. It couldn't have been Comey reopening the investigation because of Weiners laptop, of the emails leaks of their own admitions of corruption, of the fact Hillary barely campaigned and acted like she deserved it. No, none od those things, it was Russian propaganda they beat out CTR. It's fucking delusional, she lost because she was a shitty corporate fascism canidate who had to rig the primaries in order to even get to the General.

she lost because she was a shitty corporate fascism canidate

This applies to Donald Trump too, so I don't think that was much of a factor.

Except he had had years and years of time in politics. I'll agree, he's has tons of shit to be criticized on ie. Tump University, Sexually harassing women (Epstein connection), fucking subs, or just plain being a guetti moron born with a silver spoon. But that's the funny part, he was still more appealing than Hillary. Jimmy Dore did a great job with his thank you letter to Hillary for pointing out her BS. Although I didn't vote for her and I'm totally on board to criticize Trump, I'm not falling for this Russia is the reason for Trump.

This comment brings it back around to what we should focus on. His appeal. Now what influences people to vote for someone like Trump. Misinformation is a good start. Where are people being misinformed? Facebook ads bought by Russia.

... and totally neglects to adress Hillary's appeal. Once again, the joke is that's she's so bad that Trump actually looked like a better option. Also he did campaign like a mother fucker when she didn't. Even Obama did more campaigning for her in the last 2 weeks than she did in the last month.

You aren't getting this. Misinformation from Russian facebook ads/memes favoring Trump manipulated people's perception of Trump's actual ugliness. He wasn't ugly to the people seeing those facebook ads. He was going to Make America Great Again because of those ads.

You aren't getting this. Misinformation from Russian facebook ads/memes favoring Trump manipulated people's perception of Trump's actual ugliness.

Can you show me examples of these ads? Also, I think this is the 1st time I heard they were trying to make a guy who's been in the lime light since the 80's, reality tv show host, and who was attacked on a daily basis by 24hr MSM, as trying to change his image on face book. Do you have a source that's what their goal was?

He wasn't ugly to the people seeing those facebook ads. He was going to Make America Great Again because of those ads.

Maybe people got that perception because he was running a campaign and that was their slogan. Also he paid 5 million to Cambridge Analytics. Maybe that's why.

This is just a smidge of the anti-Clinton, Pro-Bernie, Pro-Trump ads.

There's a huge subset of people that do not watch any news. MSM means nothing to this group. They do frequent facebook though.

How can you sit there with a straight face and tell me, that's what swung an election? It's a joke, you honestly see that and think people went, owe yeah, I'm boting for trump based off anyone of those ads? And those people were energized enough to get off the couch and vote because of those ads alone? It really preposterous on it's face. Look, I'm not a Trump supporter, but my hate for him isn't going allow me to buy that thise ads werr what swung an election. I still think it's cause Hillary couldn't energized her base, because she didn't try.

How can you sit there and tell me

she lost because she was a shitty corporate fascism canidate

And that's why she lost the election.

Because she was.

Yes, we established that. We also established Trump is too. Yet you continue to argue that's how she lost. So how did Trump win when he was the same?

You see what I'm doing to you yet? Or am I going to have to tell you outright. I really want you to figure it out on your own though.

Yes, we established that. We also established Trump is too. Yet you continue to argue that's how she lost. So how did Trump win when he was the same?

Do me a favor and don't limit the things I have said to one point, I won't be disingenuous if you aren't. I've point out a slew of things that affected her campaign. From Comey to not even campaigning unlike Trump. She didn't try, she thought she had it in the bag like... everyone.

You see what I'm doing to you yet? Or am I going to have to tell you outright. I really want you to figure it out on your own though.

Yes, being disingenuous... or you can spell it out if you like. Sorry I can't read ones intentions through text.

It's not my intentions. It's your failure to comprehend your own argument.

You boxed yourself in with

she lost because she was a shitty corporate fascism canidate

You limited yourself. I then pointed that out with

This applies to Donald Trump too, so I don't think that was much of a factor.

Your point then devolved into the other factors you mentioned, but then you did it again with

the joke is that's she's so bad that Trump actually looked like a better option.

This comment was after I pointed out how people's perception of him was manipulated. You want it to be Hillary's fault so badly that you will you completely disregard the highly credible fact that propaganda works. And Russia has figured out a highly effective way of doing it.

It's not my intentions.

That's clearly your intentions, you won't address any of the other point I've brought up.

There's no reason to. You don't care about reality.

The very article this post is about links twitter and Facebook to Russian money piped through Kushner.

And yes it is obvious that the Russian troll factories are pumping out so much propaganda on all social media that it’s driving a solid wedge between everyone.

Or you know, the fact that he was blasted over MSM wayyyy more than Bernie and Hillary doesn’t mean anything at all. You don’t think that had an impact, more so than Facebook ads?

You dont think that the possibility of the Kremlin controlling a US president could be considered the biggest conspiracy of our time? Obamacare is bigger? What?

The while conspiracy theory behind tge Kremlin was controlling Trump was that he was being blackmailed by tge Dossier which (after a year in the FBI's hands) can't be verified and was paid for by HRC & the DNC. So yes, a over bloated health care bill that was based off of a republican idea and rewritten by the insurance companies, that everyone bitches about how much it costs with high deductibles, but defends it because it helps the ultra poor and pre-existing conditions, is quite a impact. Especially when Obama who ran on single payer, had the house & senate couldn't get single payer and instead we got economic fascism (aka Mussolini type, not Hitler) with a mandate to purchase a product from a pricate institution or face a penalty.

Do you really think that the dossier is the only thing the fbi is investigating? And parts of that report have already been confirmed. And it was a gop rival to trump that hired the firm to produce the dossier, and the clinton campaign took over payment when trump won the primary. And wasn't it trump's own people that said who cares if the dirt is paid-for or stolen; what matters is the dirt exists (when wikileaks was gathering info on Clinton) we have no idea what the fbi has on trump right now, but this does not appear to be going away.

Do you really think that the dossier is the only thing the fbi is investigating?

Clearly not since they got Manafort & Gates for things that were reportes.in 2013 and they should have caught under Obama.

And parts of that report have already been confirmed.

None of which have to do with Trump or his campaign. Can you show me otherwise.

And it was a gop rival to trump that hired the firm to produce the dossier, and the clinton campaign took over payment when trump won the primary.

Sure, the RNC didn't want Trump either, but the info pertaining to Russian officials weren't a part of it then.

And wasn't it trump's own people that said who cares if the dirt is paid-for or stolen; what matters is the dirt exists (when wikileaks was gathering info on Clinton) we have no idea what the fbi has on trump right now, but this does not appear to be going away.

Trump says a lot of shit, I'm not a support of his, but I do argue against this red scare. And yes, tge fbi might have more, but it's been a year and we're only seen indictment for crimes commites under Obama's DOJ. Keep spinning your wheels on the dossier if you like. Looks like the Paradise Papers might actually hold more weight than anytging else to date.

Do you really think the only connection from manafort to the Kremlin is from back in 2013? Do you really think manafort is the only thing the fbi is working on here? This was the first step down a long path. And like i said, the dossier isn't the only thing they're investigating. I'm not an expert on any of this (and obviously you aren't either) I'm not going to trade guesses with someone on the conspiracy sub of reddit. I'll just let the fbi continue to arrest and indict people. But i can't believe you people think this isn't a shit tornado that's just getting started.

I'm more shocked by the McCarthyism, they literally blamed Sanders for being a Russian agent, than Jill Stein, now Trump and nothing (besides Todays Paradise Papers) has been a direct link to Trump. Hell, HRC & tge DNC colluded with Russia through their back channels and lied about it till this past week, and I'm suppose to buy this red scare. It's crazy talk, and I've been swimming in conspiracies for 20 years.

Jill Stein went to the fucking Moscow, and so did Flynt, fucking dining with Putin. Stop being such a moron, omg. Red scare. Yeah, red scare on the fucking red square.

OMG, Jim Stein ate a meal with Putin!!!! She's clearly a russian spy!!! Jesus christ, do you hear yourself? It's fucking nuts.

I like you try so hard to normalize having a private dinner with the dictators who runs a criminal KGB state

I'm sure you donthr same with all the dictators HRC has had dinner with or sold arms too. But I'm sure you only like to talk about tge red scare and will claim deflection or whataboutism. Glad to see the bridage in real time though!

HRC! Hillary! Dems! Obama! Hillary! Emails! Go sleep, son.

Go sleep, son.

That's cute! Unfortunately, not on the red scare you guys feel the need to push.

It's not red any longer, it's KGB. But yeah, where you're from it's early morning, amirite?

Learn to read a clock.

Learn to read a book lol

Good one! Clever, which one, maybe Donna Brazile?

Yeah, you sound like you've been defining in conspiracies for 20 years. What do you mean i pinged the other person you're arguing with?

Huh? What? What do you mean another user who barely participates in this sub, randomly shows up in a deep thread, who happens to traffic the same subs as me... You want me to think the Russians are everwhere and here you 2 are, playing dumb.

Oh jesus christ. You poor, dumb wet noodle. You're arguing with some guy. How is that my fault?

Yeah, just a coincidence. Fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, I don't really care anyway. You've been civil for the most part.

Dude, I've been here for 10 years, come on now!

Okay? So?

So apparently I'm a Russian spy now, according to your enoughtrumpspam comrade.

What?? That's what you just called me, you twat!

Haha, twat! Funny shit. Where you from anyways?

Southern CA, but live in NC. You?

From Boston now live in San Francisco bay area.

No thanks. Too expensive.

I guess we'll find out a lot more of what's what in the next few months.

Haha, no doubt, been trying to convince my wife for about a year. She finally gets it. I expect this new tax reform to fuck us hard. Like i said before, I'm not a Trump supporter, but I dp argue the McCarthyism. IMO it's gping to be used to censor the web with very little evidence to support it. Just look at Youtube now.

Between you and I (and anyone who reads this), socal people are better.

haha

Their fucking horrible up here. It's like they have a need to tell you all their problem in life with in the 1st 5 minutes of meeting you.

Thank you. People from both left and right wing media outlets believe that this story is fabricated bullshit.

But republicans and democrats in America don’t give a damn about the average man, and easily the most pressing issue for the masses is health care.

I’m currently$1,200 in debt after having multiple surgeries, and I’ve paid $800 off too. I’m 19 years old. I had my last surgery Right before trump got into office, and right before my health insurance rates and premiums became Too expensive for me, a college kid, and my single mother to pay.

Could you imagine if I had my surgeries this year? Not only would my deductible have not been met, but i don’t even have health insurance. I’d be in 10x the debt, and I would be locked into that for the rest of my adult life.

So yeah, I can’t agree more than healthcare is more important than “trump/ Russia gate”. Trump, pence, his whole cabinet, and most people from the rnc and the dnc need to be removed. None of them want to help us. And Russia gate won’t help that whatsoever.

Sorru to hear about it, I have a family of 5 and we negociat directly with our doctor's because it's so much cheaper than paying insurance and trting to meet our deductible that might help us for the last 3 months of the year. It's duckes up, but wait till you see the new tax reform if itbget's passed. It's going to fuck the middle class harder than an overpriced hooker.

Hey man I’m sorry to hear about your situation too, thanks for the empathy.

Yeah I can’t fucking wait. This is why I’m going into politics. Ever since I read The Iron Heel by jack London I feel like I’ve been on the same mission.

Best of luck to you brother, all we can do now is educate and spread the word.

No doubt and best of luck in politics, it's quite the bitch, so don't stray to far from your core principles.

Never will. If I’ve learned one thing in life, it’s that you cannot escape your heart.

Glad to hear it, what kind of ticket you looking at? FYI, the labor unions have already begun looking at 3rd parties.

I️ have no idea, I’ve only recently decided. I️ hope I️ never have to work for the dnc, but if that’s the only way to get political capital I️ will

Jesus Christ, keep your nose clean, and fuck the 2 party system. If you want to help people, you'll have to capitulate in order to help them, and 99 times out of 1, it's much worst. I say this as a jaded leftist, who turned libertarian, then turned independent. I very on the topics, so I don't like labels anymore.

Labels don’t help at all when it comes to ideology. All I️ want is to help people, I️ don’t need an -ism.

We really need a new Conspiracy subreddit.

Its actually filled with russian shills. Its a tactic to spread conspiracies to discredit governments.. but when fiction meets reality. You really cant turn a blind eye...

Before the Russian attack began, this place wasn't even on the radar for any actual paid shilling... now it has been almost entirely compromised.

I would definitely agree that some longstanding conspiracy theories are probably intentionally propagated by Russian Intelligence for the reasons you said, though. Still, it used to be fun to come to r/conspiracy and just kind of indulge in the theories, now it's almost all political/intentionally divisive.

It sucks, man.

Yeah now its just blind manipulation, theres too much what ifs. Theres too much change of direction in coversations. Its lile mentioning trump and someone says what about hillary.. i really dont lile what these subs have become.

Where's my Bigfoot knocked up my cousin's mechanic's nephew's soccer coach's sister.

You wont believe this, and i was hesitant on posting it but... A bigfoot knocked up my cousin's accountant's nephew's soccer coach's sister!

Din't know who told you about some mechanic. Guess that's just how facts get blurred.

Wow, how have we been missing that blockbuster? That could have repercussions for tens of people!

My thoughts exactly.

Lots of Sharia Blue money getting passed around, obviously. This did used to be a cool subreddit.

Literally anything negative of Trump gets downvoted and removed from this sub. You can't be that blind.

I'd hope that blatant shilling and zero evidence posts DO get downvoted into oblivion here.

A shred of evidence is always appreciated more than baseless pronouncements.

Hahah yeah man of course literally everything negative of Trump is blatant shilling but Seth Rich was murdered by Hillary, Pizzagate is real and Hillary performs demonic rituals! Jade Helm! Child crisis actors! Obama is a secret Muslim atheist born in Kenya! Bigfoot stole my sandwich!!! The delusion is just fucking hilarious.

Seth Rich was most likely murdered by elements of the DNC. Donna Brazile wasn't keeping her blinds down because of some random "robbery" where the victim was shot but nothing was taken.

The Podestas and Comet Pizza are disturbing. One only need to look at the obvious pedophile artwork displayed and communications between the people involved to see that something's not right.

Call it "Spirit Cooking" or "Demonic Rituals", I have a problem with anyone in power deranged enough to think that they can draw on some higher power to achieve their results.

Of course Obama, his wife, his family and his publisher all claimed he was "Kenyan born" before his run for President. Nothing to see here.

I'm sorry to hear about your sandwich. Most probably a bear got it. You shouldn't leave food out while in the woods.

Well thank you for proving my point.

Thank you for proving mine!

I see a lot of conjecture and not a lot of info backing it up.

conspiracyv2 exists

Damn this makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised is /r/conspiracy and similar subs are LOADED with bots and shills to keep people distracted from the real shit going on.

My question is what will the elites do with all these leaks. They must certainly feel under threat. My guess, renewed focus on destroying net neutrality.

There doing smokescreens on the news. Fox is state run at this point and you need to direct people around yous attention to this type of stuff. Show them what higher class people do to stay up there. Show them the facts that these leaks bring. Every person in the who has too much money for their own good is currently battling to maintaijn that power they have gained and theydo so in disgusting ways.

It's a long read but you might enjoy this essay on the class system in the states. Mysteriously is keeps getting taken down.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151006183427/https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/the-3-ladder-system-of-social-class-in-the-u-s/

and they do so in disgusting ways.

Disgusting but often times legal ways. Gov and corporate power have all but merged in the states and the citizenry have been left out of the equation. Most legislation is either completely composed by corporations or highly shaped by their lobbyists.

Fox is state run at this point

I agree with this but I believe all of the major media companies are compromised. The two party system is a convenient illusion.

Fox? So this was covered on NBC, CBS and CNN? They're all bought off, why specific to Fox?

Fox is just the most obvious. Theyre deranged at this point. Cnn is getting to fox news level before they turned this stupid. Nbc and cbs are easily more trustworthy because THEY ACTUALLY DO SOME BACKGROUND RESEARCH. theyre corrupted but so is every news agency. The governement holds too much power so what you do is spread a conspiracy to different countries and have them expose you from the outside so you can then expose yourself on the inside and correct your behavior. Its just hard when trump is your damn president...

Wow. I guess derangement is in the eye of the beholder. I can say exactly the opposite with exactly the same level of proof.

Now we've achieved exactly zero in advancing either of our positions. Isn't the internet fun?

You are on a conspiracy sub. I do not know what the fuck you were expecting... im not here to believe in anyone, im here to gather information so i never get caught with my pants down in important moments in my life. I manipulate my reality, i can avoid any of the worlds bullshit if i know how to get around it..

I'm not here to believe in anyone. but if you think that any news organization is more trustworthy than other, then you'll need to get a bigger belt for those pants.

If you think trusting anyone that can be a voice on the internet, then get ready to lose money and be made a bitch... if you think trusting news agencys is a smart idea, then youre right it is to a certain extent.. the news cant cover everything but they can open your eyes to new things. Just because a couple of news agencies fuck up, doesnt mean they dont report truth most of the time..

That you think its "just a couple of news agencies fucking up" and not 50 years of massive propaganda directed at the American public shows exactly how much they've succeeded in their brainwashing.

Look up "Operation Mockingbird" and get back to me.

Im completely aware that america is a plastic mask with a smile on it. Thing is that even though they do shady shit. They guide in the right direction and bring other countries up out of the shit hole they used to be. They have embarrassed themselves sure, but what country is perfect and doesnt have skeletons in their closet? Russia? Turkey? Germany? Uk? oh it must be saudi arabia? Japan? China? What fucking country hasnt done disgusting things in the past. This is a new age were living in, its easier to influence, but its also easier to see through peoples bullshit. Manipulation is my game, it doesnt work against me....

I'm not sure how we got from "Just because a couple of news agencies fuck up, doesnt mean they dont report truth most of the time.." to this confusing as hell post on.. world power?

I'm also not sure how this is in any way responsive to the post you replied to.

Youre sitting there talking about america and mass propaganda. You know exactly what the fuck im talking about and you know exactly how it got here. Reply if you want to keep bullshitting. Dont reply if you are truly tired of this.

Operation Mockingbird (and our entire previous conversation) relates to American propaganda against Americans. Then up pops your post relating to absolutely nothing. So no I'm not bullshitting.

Its literally exactly what im talking about.... countries manipulating their own people.. do you guys really think i give a damn about a upvote btw? Feel free to downvote.

This one definelty is to a degree. But just look at r/politics.

It was always left leaning, but was still worth to go scroll through political happenings.

Ever since Russia stuff started coming up, the sub has been essentially unviewable.

My question is what will the elites do with all these leaks

They will do the same most people do when they feel attacked -- double down on their bets.

This thread is filled with em. Comment scores don't get as high in this sub as they did artificially above. Most regular users don't agree with the trump Russia bullshit. Hence my disbelief at the ridiculously inflated scores.

Are you serious? How can you actually know that the shills are Russian? You sound like CNN

You sound like a russian shill...

Removed. Rule 10. Only warning.

Sorry, but is this indicating you would like for me to remove the add on? Just be straight with me.

No, it means you can't come here and accuse other users of being shills. Russian shills, CTR shills, any shills.

Ahh thanks for the heads up. Really start looking into these accounts though, some of them are extremely untrustworthy and pushing narratives by clear manipulation that those who havent experienced cant see.

It's exactly as you put it.

I wouldnt rule out a majority of it just being people who see life as a movie and everything is either black or white. You will see it anywhere there is a polarized debate with two sides. Look at bitcoin. Same thing on a micro scale

Bitcoin is actually full o people that cause pump and dumps on smaller coins. Its not 2 sides. It one who has bad intentions vs one either trying to maintain o beat the bad intentions. O own crypto..

Exactly my point. Its often impossible to distinguish a pumper and a true enthusiast, especially if you're familiar with bitcoin cash and the surrounding drama.

The same sort of rationalization happens when it comes to justifying your investment and justifying your world view

I agree.

/r/conspiracyII

/r/actualconspiracies

That sub is great. But not exactly filled with 'NSA Swamp Monster intercepting your aborted fetus souls before they are sent to limbo.'

/r/actualconspiracys

If you dipshits are gonna pass this crap off as "conspiracy", you already have one.. over at r\politics.

There are plenty, but they aren't so entertaining.

/r/conspiracyconspiracy

Yep

Ross being implicated is a weird one, as he served under Bill Clinton working with US-Russia investments at the time.

A return to contest mode?

Because Trump is doing good with Russia now?

Putin is happy with Trump now?

It's because a lot of us couldn't give less of a fuck which political party is supposedly corrupt. Spoiler alert: they all are.

Haha, no the Clinton Crime family's connections with Russia is the biggest conspiracy.

Uranium 1, Podestas, pizza gate, Clinton Foundation money laundering...

You know, actual evidence...

you forgot the /s

Lol! Care to link the paradise papers linking Trump to dodgy Russians?

Can someone fill me in, please?

Trump made money as a businessman. He did business with Russia as a businessman.

The issue was raised about career politicians like the Clintons making millions of dollars via corrupt means.

Why is anyone suprised that businessmen have Russian contacts?

It's okay to have Russian contacts.The problem is when you lie about having them, then it turns out they were actively supporting you in the election with targeted propaganda, and your policies are over the top pro Russia including not enforcing sanctions that Congress bipartisanly voted.

I keep hearing people concerned about McCarthyism but the problem is sustained "reveals" of previously hidden contacts/connections/business deals exacerbating our political divide.

Working with or being friends with Russians is not bad. Hiding it is.

Show me proof trump has been lying

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/544886/

Holy hell this sub is being overrun by anti-trump shills. You get -20 votes while ignorant “Trump is a Russian nazi” post gets +55 votes. This place is becoming a liberal cesspool.

Yawn.

"Anyone who questions our god emperor is a liberal shill" You koolaid drinkers are what has created the cesspool

I am all open to questioning the President. But you fools are just as bad as the brainwashed liberals who watch CNN all day. Half of this sub sounds exactly like them. Making claims that Trump and his entire admin are Nazis that are trying to overthrow the US to Russia and ruin the entire country because they somehow are in bed with Russia. All while backing it up with zero credible evidence. It’s laughable. It’s not reasonable, it’s not factual, and it just doesn’t seem logical.

TRUMP SUPPORTERS: It is ok to admit when you are wrong. It is a sign of intelligence and vital social skill. If you supported trump in the past, it is okay to admit that you were wrong, to yourself or others. It is not the end of world. It does NOT make you look weak.. it makes you look stronger. There is no shame in admitting when you are wrong. Take a deep breath and relax, if you are defensive it is because you are anxious. You will probably go through the stages of grief, which is normal. You tied supporting trump with your identity, when in reality it never should have been apart of it. You will go through denial, and then the next you will try and reason and compromise, then you will be angry and what to lash out on thhe world...then depression , and then acceptance. It is okay to be angry and sad, those are human emotions.

When you are ready to admit you are wrong. I am here to talk.

account 15 days old.. gtfo

Because his account is young hes wrong about admitting you're wrong!

everything I said was fact.

You said one thing and it wasn't remotely interesting

and yet, you are here.

Yep, great point buddy

Yes it was. My other device died and I cant find the charger for it. How are you feeling? You seem angry. I am not judging you for supporting trump. I am assuming that you are sick of corruption and wanted someone to change that...and you believed it was trump.

Did I say I support Trump? I know everything is a show for the sheep. You poke just like the right and left to cause more divide in a group where ultimately we are supposed to be above that. You are part of the problem, gfy.

Please explain your views. What do you mean a show for the sheep?

May I asked what upset you? And no, I am from Canada. Cant really do much else but talk to people.

no. go read.

Read what, exactly? Any reading suggests? Be honest here is thete anything you like me to read

Judging by how triggered you got by his post, I don’t blame him for thinking you were a Trump supporter.

I don't care. Shit will hit the fan soon anyway.

lmao great fact thanks for enlightening us

He is going through anger. It best not to poke the bees nest when he is angry. He is right, I am 15 days old but my other account was on different device and it died...havent found the charger yet.

If they had the character to be able to admit their errors, i dont think they would have been trump supports.

Is this /r/conspiracy sub or /r/ politics/news/anti-trump?

Sorry I forgot we weren't allowed to criticise our dear leader here.

Damn snowflakes wanting us to adhere to their special pronouns, namely "amazing president"

Character assassination is different than criticism.

I am assuming you are at the anger stage. May I ask why you support him?

Ouch I just cut myself on that edge

That's why we have safety scissors for people like you.

Pffft who needs scissors when you can shave your necessary with this awesome katana I got at comicon!!

Why do you support him?

Ah! As funny as that is, those people fell victim to misinformation and brainwashing. They are disenfranchised people who wanted something different. Some people are never taught empathy, or critical thinking. They are stuck in there own toxic bubbles. When they have the courage to step outside that bubble lets not meet them with hostility. It will just increase that divide. America is formidable foe when it's citizens are united. That is why it so important for the GOP and Democrats to keep the US divided into too camps.

Any time you provide them with facts, they will claim fake news. Certain ideologies, especially the shitty ones, don't allow their followers access to outside info.

So are they not a victim too? They do not know sometimes, and it amazing how Putin saw a way to abuse the US culture of anti-intelligent, as way to destabilize the country!

Two camps*

It’s never too late to change.

Thank for editing the comment. There is r/Trumpgret if you are interested in finding ex trump supporters.

kind and thoughtful comment

disparaging comment

Good edit, but it seriously needs to stop around here. None of us are enemies to each other, after all

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but i would genuinly appreciate a trump supporter coming around and acknowledging that he's not the man they thought he was. I could forgive them for electing him if they genuinly learned something from it. I cannot respect someone seeing what kind of mam he is, and still thinking or claiming that he's doing good.

I am being honest and sincere. There is r/Trumpgret full of people, who no longer support him.

Those people are the ones I am talking about, they are so afraid to admit they were wrong that they ignore evrything else. Denial and comprising. I totally get where you are coming from and I agree. Just cause I don't respect a persons beliefs or think they are stupid, I will try to at least respect them still.

TRUMP SUPPORTERS: It is ok to admit when you are wrong. It is a sign of intelligence and vital social skill.

lol. Funny how you decide that the only intelligent option is whatever you believe is correct. You are calling upon others to be humble while implying that only you have the correct answer.

Consumer confidence is the highest level its been since 2004, so most people are quite happy with how things are going in their day to day lives. Sadly you have bought into the propaganda of the mainstream media who is trying to divide this country. You have become a sheep.

You really need to take your own advice and admit that you were wrong about Trump. You made a human error and made hating trump a part of your identity when in reality it never should have been a part of it. Admitting you're wrong does not make you weak. You will probably go through the stages of grief, which is normal. You will continue to lash out on the world and then depression. But finally you will accept. When you are ready to admit you are wrong. I am here to talk.

Lol nice spin on that take. Why do you believe that you are right? What do you believe to be consumer confidence, I am not familiar with this term.

It is okay that you are still in denial. Do you believe that corruption is bad?

What do you believe to be consumer confidence, I am not familiar with this term.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cci.asp

What is the 'Consumer Confidence Index - CCI' An index by the Conference Board that measures how optimistic or pessimistic consumers are with respect to the economy in the near future. The idea behind the Consumer Confidence Index (CCI) is that if consumers are optimistic, they tend to purchase more goods and services. This increase in spending inevitably stimulates the whole economy.

It is okay that you are still in denial. Do you believe that spreading division and hatred is bad?

All you did was use his argument, make one up for yourself.

“I hate trump” does NOT mean “ I like the DNC”. You’re the one who assumed that, and that is your mistake buddy. Fuck the gop and fuck the dnc. Fuck the elite that live in golden hotels while kids in my hometown starve.

They always have to make a straw man to argue against.

Straw Manning is too easy.

Making opinions is too easy.

Yet we base our whole identities on them. Wonder why we’re shit heads.

“I hate trump” does NOT mean “ I like the DNC”. You’re the one who assumed that

I never said that. Your only argument is to lie and make shit up.

“Sadly you have bought into the mainstream” etc. thats where you said it. The mainstream media is the dnc and the gop dumbass

/r/CringeAnarchy

Do not understand what you mean by this!

People who study the many & real government and criminal conspiracies in this world should always harbor doubts about those in authority and control, regardless if they represent your political interests or party politics.

How much Colbert Report did you watch as a lad?

Epic projection!

There is r/Trumpgret of people that were like you, and had the courage to admit that they were wrong.

Eh... no. That's a sub for people who were always against Trump to lol at ex-supporters or whatever other anti-trump meme is circulating.

But there’s no ties between trump and Putin /s

Russia didn’t help trump get presidency /s

Prove it

They can't. Unless you believe an uneventful meeting is serious collusion, they don't have shit. It's insanity at this point. They scream incessantly about Russian bots, while comments about unfounded Russian Boogeyman stories get hundreds of upvotes.

Manafort, Gates and Papadopolous all just coincidence?

I think he is a troll...look at user name

It's a joke username, but I'm not trolling

Them why do you support trump?

Because he’s a great leader and isn’t a pussy

What qualities make a greate leader in your opionion?

Damn you really got me there

Until you have any real evidence then yes. Innocent until proven guilty. Unless you're a sub filled with nutjobs more interested in drama than objectivity.

And the indictments had ZERO to do with anything resembling a Russia-Trump connection.

Almost a year into it, and there's STILL absolutely zero evidence of such a thing.

Dude you are retarded . Obviously Russia pushed trump into presidency . They manipulated the votes , it was proven months ago . They hacked our elections

No it wasn’t, we voted for him. Your candidate lost, get over it. The crowds at Trumps rally’s were consistently packed. You can’t fake the numbers, I was there.

I don’t have a candidate you dumb fuck? Their both corrupt imbeciles . Might as well choose Ronald McDonald for president. You definitely can fake the numbers aswell. There were many in depth reports on how they faked the numbers this election. Even a documentary. Stay ignorant.

Did you even vote in the election?

MSNBC and CNN did way more than trump could have ever done to get him elected.

How? Well they did only give him upwards of 13x the amount of coverage as the Literally highest approved senator Bernie Sanders.

But you know, the single most watched networks did way less than Russia doing, what exactly?

This thread is hilarious.

What proof of ties?

None, they’re still mad Shillary Clinton lost

Whaaa? A corrupt billionaire has ties to other corrupt billionaires? None of this is a surprise to me anymore. As far as I see it, all of these mega wealthy individuals are corrupt snakes who seek every opportunity to expand their power and screw the people over.

Oh no! I own shares of Twitter. I must be colluding with the Saudi prince who is the majority shareholder!

lol ok

Mass shooting alongside this to cover up the info I’d imagine.

At least 27 dead in Texas church shooting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41880511

Normal day in the USA.

...because we haven't gotten rid of the CIA and the MKUltra program yet.

Or because we have a media apparatus that constantly riles up an Us vs. Them mentality, and a series of ineffective gun laws and mental health procedures by Congressman that don't actually care about any of this.

But whatever fits your narrative I suppose.

Why not both fueling each other? "Conspiracy theorist" vs "rational citizen" is still us vs them mentality

https://youtu.be/25683IE5v9g?t=27

Unfortunately...

Couldn’t have had more perfect timing. Shooter already dead, we won’t know anything about why they did what they did. It’ll be the media spouting extremes for the entirety of the time that the Paradise Papers could be in the mainstream.

Without a doubt the shooting is a tragedy. You cannot fake the loss of life. Nothing but good thoughts and prayers to the victims families.

However, in today’s times, the loss of life is not the biggest issue. It’s a much bigger picture than that

Keep your eyes open

Mass shootings are common now. This one will have a couple days in the news and be forgotten next week, lol.

Has there been ANY new information on vegas? I've been keeping my ears perked but haven't checked here in the past week or two

They are saying he was depressed and on a losing streak. Which as far as they go, it's a pretty fucking weak motive. The narrative they are pushing is total bullshit.

What if he was just a peice of shit with nothing to lose who wanted to see how it felt to kill a bunch of people? Does he have to have some kind of greater plan?

Nobody seems to consider this, but I think it is the main motive for ANY killer in these scenarios

Yup. Pretty much the only thing stopping a person from killing a lot of people is that they don't want to. Once that switch in a person's brain goes and they decide to, it really isn't that hard if you don't care if you get caught/die. Especially in america with such easy access to firearms.

Looks at username... nice try Russian troll farm

well he is right, but tbh even if guns were illegal, wouldnt be hard to get them if u have money like he did

Kinda like a self-reward for not killing anyone for 60 years ..

I totally agree. They are cowards that act out some kind of sick story that they created in their mind.

Most of the time I think it's people who are suicidal for some reason and it's just the modern version of suicide by cop

I read an hour ago that his estranged wife, two children, and mother in law were in the church. Haven't seen anything about their status though. I've only seen that in one site. If true, this shooting may be domestic violence on a whole other level.

Well, this sub is pretty much geared to ferreting out the hidden/obscured. And there was some weirdness around vegas. But yeah, having looked into it, I don’t personally buy into it being anything other than one piece of shit with no greater motive

That's the thing though, everyone he knew vouched for him being a really nice person that would give his shirt off his back for someone. Everyone always say nice things about a person when they die but in their interviews you can tell they really meant it. He always helped those in need.

So what were the motives of the second shooter?

What if he was just a peice of shit with nothing to lose who wanted to see how it felt to kill a bunch of people?

This is exactly it. I came to this conclusion when I heard the enormous number and variety of guns he had in the hotel room. The only logical explanation as to why he would use over 20 different guns in the shooting would be to test them all on live targets for shits and giggles.

Most people have a REASON though even if they don't have some grand plan. Whether its mental illness, domestic disputes, religious ideology, etc. To plan out a terrorist attack as meticulously as Paddock did, just doesn't line up with his profile of being a depressed guy who just snapped because of a losing streak. Depressed people ain't doing that much work.

"Narrative." You do realize that sometimes life doesn't have a nice clear narrative, right? Sometimes motives are weak, reasons are stupid. There's still far more reason to believe the "weak" motive we have over random speculation by armchair detectives.

See that? You guys are already off topic.

Yes, I understand that life is chaotic, but just think the timing for these mass shootings and terrorist attacks is too coincidental. And I am not claiming any theory just yet, just being appropriately skeptical.

They appear coincidental because they happen all the damn time. Literally every day there is a mass shooting in America. You, and many others, are looking to fill a narrative, and find connections and cover ups where there's only chaos, madness, a mental health crisis, and way too many high powered semi automatic weapons.

No, not literally every day. Not even every week. STOP parroting shit you haven't researched for yourself. Why are you even on this sub? That is a legitimate question by the way.

AND You KNOW what I mean by mass shooting, don't be facetious.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

There is some data on it. There have only been 11 this year. which is about one per month.

Not sure what you're trying to achieve by pretending there are less mass shootings in America than there really are. Downplaying their frequency or severity, or moving the goalposts as you seem to be doing, only helps to serve the weapons manufacturers and those who want even more guns on American streets.

As of October 7th, the day of the Las Vegas shooting, it marked the 273rd mass shooting in the U.S. in the 275 days that had passed so far in 2017. That's almost 1 per day. You can change the criteria by which we define mass shootings (generally accepted as 4 or more people killed/wounded in a single event), but I don't see why you would do that, unless you were trying to diminish the unbelievably high number of mass shootings in America.

http://www.newsweek.com/mass-shooting-almost-every-day-us-675334

I gave you data from an organization, the congressional research service, whose job it is to track these things. You provided me with a newsweek article....

Its ironic that you then go and try to make me out as having an agenda. Then YOU post a mainstream media source article, that autoplays a video of a woman screaming during the firt couple seconds.

There is no widely accepted definition of Mass Shooting. But the context of this conversation alone should tell you what type of mass shooting I was speaking on.

I havent moved any goalposts or changed any criteria. The criteria for mass shootings are clearly defined for me by the source I provided you with. Did you even open it?

You do have an agenda, you want to connect these recent shootings to some kind of grand conspiracy "because they just seem like too much of a coincidence". I said they're not a coincidence because they happen all the damn time. They happen so often in fact that people barely even care about them any more unless someone they know was involved.

Now you're saying they don't happen that often because you're setting the bar for mass shootings at 4 or more deaths and I'm saying that it's 4 or more people shot.

Can we agree that whether or not everyone in a mass shooting actually dies is kinda besides the point? And that America has a mass shooting event, where at least 4 people are shot, almost every single day.

I'm not the one setting the bar.... the god damned Congressional Reseach Service is. You didn't even read their criteria. It is about more than the number of people shot/killed. READ IT. or do you rather champion Newsweek?

The type of mass shootings that I am referring to, as outlined by the Congressional Reseach Service, is not that frequent and is almost always preceded with something being exposed.

AND yes we can agree on mass shootings being too prevalent, but like you said, that was not the point. The context of the discussion was geared toward the mass shootings as defined by the Congressional Research Service, WHICH IS THE OFFICIAL U.S. DEFINITION. That Newsweek article has an agenda and its pretty obvious.

Lol, it looks like a mass shooting is always following something being exposed because mass shootings are always happening. That's the whole point I'm trying to make.

And the point I've made is that they aren't as common as you and newsweek try to make them out to be. Sure gangs shoot each other up and domestic violence sometimes has multiple people shot, but thats not what I, and the god damned Congressional Reseach Service are considering as mass shootings. The criteria they use is pretty clear, if you would read it.

Would it appease you, if instead of mass shooting I said terrorist attack/domestic terrorism? It shouldn't.

The definition you are using is a new and politicized one, specifically to make mass shootings appear more prevalent. The exact same thing they did with the definition of a serial killer. The fact is the type of mass shootings that I am referring to, as outlined by the Congressional Reseach Service, is not that frequent.

There's a mass shooting almost every day.

NO there is not.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43004.pdf

Theres been about 11 this year.

I guess it depends on your idea of "mass." There is a shooting that effects (wounds, kills) 4 or more people every day in the US.

That's obviously not the type of mass shooting I am referring to. You were too eager to parrot something you read that you didn't even consider what I was talking about. Incidents like these are infrequent, unprovoked, and always occur alongside some other news. From 9/11 to today. There is a clear pattern. Something gets exposed > A lot of people die.

I understood exactly what you said. I think you're too eager to draw parallels where they don't exist.

If you understood what I was saying then why did you pretend like I was using the Newsweek definition for mass shootings? I'm not eager to draw parallels between corruption and terrorism. This has been a pillar of the conspiracy scene for a long time. Where you been?

Next you're gonna tell us that the Jews don't control the world!

Nobody controls the world, we just have varying amounts of influence over it.

I think everybody realizes that. Yet, many people have reasons to speculate beyond a simple, weak motive with no greater plan. Why the fuck does this sub exist if this is the new sentiment that everybody needs to be informed of every time they speculate beyond the obvious explanation for something?

This. x10000. I feel like this sub is overrun by people with different political agendas, with how often I see posts like that. I shouldn't be met with so much push-back for being skeptical on a fucking CONSPIRACY site.

Don’t you think they’d come up with a good motive and narrative if it was a cover up? Genuinely asking. If somebody is smart enough to orchestrate a false flag or cover up, they’d probably prioritize having a good story for it.

I think it depends on the motive. If they wanted to distract the public or divide their attention then they wouldn't care about the narrative given to the public that much.

I guess I just don't personally follow that logic. The number one priority in a false flag or distraction is to not get caught. If you distract people but then they find out you murdered 50 people or lied to the whole world, you're in an even shittier situation than you were before. I fully agree his motives are currently pretty opaque, but he wouldn't be the first killer to leave very little to go on in terms of motive after his death.

When has the public ever found out a story was just a distraction, caught the real killer and brought about justice? Just one example. Thats never happened.

Because normally the alibis and backstories are pretty solid. Can’t prove something that’s covered up isn’t true when the story makes sense and you can’t dispute it. And maybe, just maybe, many of the things this sub calls a conspiracy actually happened.

Agreed. Although alibis and backstories more than not leave something to be desired - especially in these controversial incidents. The Vegas Shooter has a backstory that is on one hand nearly nonexistant and on the other tied to government employment with clearence. So solid? Meh.

No, their stories always seem to fall apart at the edges and work their way in. Besides, the public cares very little about stories these days. Las Vegas is but a memory. Its a formula that jist keeps working.

So they're masterminds that can either force someone to kill 50 people or according to some people in this sub, fake 50 people dying, but they're also total morons who can't cover their asses?

Out of the three possibilities I'd have to fully endorse the last one.

I agree that we should search for the truth. I just think saying “huh, this is really odd, I hope we get more details on what was up with this guy” is a lot more logical than “clearly this is a government conspiracy to distract us from politics, even though there are plenty of other ways to distract us besides staging a mass murder at a public concert with lots of witnesses”.

Absolutely.

What if we already know the truth? That he was just a dude that wanted to shoot a bunch of people. That's the problem with a lot of you folks, you always need there to be some silly deep state thing going on. Some people are just killers. Not saying that there isn't something we don't know, but what would it take to convince you that the guy just really wanted to kill 50 people, and then did, for no political or ideological reason whatsoever?

It might be the truth. But that sure is a quick conclusion. Whats wrong with throwing theories out there and seeing where they lead. It certainly doesn't impose on anybody's life here does it? Dont get so uptight. My conclusions wont affect the world. And there are many incidences that i feel neither here nor there about. But some dont add up. They are a mystery to be solved thats all. If you want to believe what the news tells you, more power to you. Nobody is trying to change your mind. Only time can convince anybody of the truth. Alternativeoy nothing will convince those that dont want to change their view. No matter which side they stand on.

That... that didn't answer my question, which was completely serious by the way. What would convince you that the guy was just fucked in the head? The whole thing is a little weird, but there's nothing saying anything else was the reason, so what else would you need to decide that no more digging is needed? I'm legit not trying to be a dick here, I only ever read this sub some times, just trying to get a glimpse. Since obviously sometimes it's just fucked up people doing fucked up shit.

You aren't being a dick, and I'm totally not easily offended so we're good there. Honestly, I haven't kept up much with the story and my closest connection is that I was in Vegas on the same floor but at the new York new York just the weekend after the shooting. What makes me interested in it further? Really the way information came out seemed fucked up and to me didn't make sense. When at first nothing was found on or near him suddenly some notes with wind trajectory calculations on them and other sniper related notes happened to have been found right next to him. Sniper related calculations? Really? Why? He just opened up. At the distance and angle he was at those notes would have been useless. Then the authorities want to examine his brain. Why even mention this? It's an odd thing to say imo. As well, to me there is little talked about as far as his past. I have my own life to worry about so as I've said, I haven't kept up with it..As such, there are other details, none that aren't known or haven't been discussed i'm sure. But, just what's been talked about on its own doesn't convince me that he had a motive not that he was necessarily alone. If I was investigating the case (in which case I'd hopefully have much more information to go on) just knowing what's been made public, i'd fortunately withhold any thoughts on the case until further details come to light. If you think the news is thourough, unbiased, and not under pressure from investors. Well I can't help you there. So, let me ask you why do you believe after just one month that the shooter just snapped and wanted to kill people? The picture so far is that he did kill, but why?

Don’t you think they’d come up with a good motive and narrative if it was a cover up?

They told us 9:11 was achieved with bearded acrobat pilots overcoming US domestic defences, planned by a dialysis patient in a Pakistan cave.

Flight attendants were apparently making calls at cruising altitudes. We know this through the black boxes allegedly found intact- at crash sites that resembled controlled demolitions and in one case, a big ol hole in a field.

Good story right? /s

Wait -I read he recently wired $500,000 to his girlfriend in the P.I.? But he was losing money? Man, I'm so confused...

Rich people have a different version of going broke, you plebe. ;-)

I am not a pleb!. Excuse me now, I gotta start clipping coupons from the Sunday paper I found on my neighbor's lawn so I can afford some 10% off frozen pizza rolls.

Its interesting how a certain type of person refuses to believe that "Failure Man Lashes Out" is a valid narrative. It seems to stem from a refusal to stare into the abyss of that person's own failure man status.

"a certain type of person... failure man status" YOU don't know me, yet you are trying to attack my character because I'm being skeptical. Why are you even on this sub?

Who's pushing that narrative?

Maybe sell all your guns, pay off your debts and leave Vegas. Or shoot people what ever you need to do to relieve stress.

Who's "they"?

Longtime government employee, owned planes and remote real estate across the Southwest, tons of weapons, even lived in Florida ... the guy sounds like a government drug-runner/arms-dealer to me. Which might be why Nevada is still hiding the investigation from the media.

He was a multimillionaire with private jets, and had been gambling thousands on online blackjack

Uhhh not really? What’s your proposed motive, Mr. Armchair forensics expert?

Don't patronize me. I'm not going to entertain you. If you don't want to take me seriously, then I'm fine with that. Go back to /r/politics and stay away from /r/conspiracy.

Get a life

You are so juvenile. Relevant username?

Well if the Saudis were funding terror, and the CIA was in on it supplying weapons there might have been credibility with Paddock being a gun runner and the deal going bad or something. It was suspiciously close the the Four Seasons which the Saudi dork had investments in.

Here you go.

They talked about it for a couple days, then moved on to the real important issues like the hamburger emoji.

The latest from Newsweek is that Paddock was a Trump supporter and the shooting likely had little to do with politics, and more to do with him losing a significant amount of his wealth over the last couple years and being unable to cope with the loss of high roller prestige.

He was the head of a human trafficking empire.

People are waking up to the crimes of the global elite/Deep State and the fact that they fund terrorism and wars, and thus, the effect of all these false flags is fast wearing off. There's no point in being afraid when you are aware that your government is behind the terrorists.

Lol, deep state.

You think this is a joke?

I mean, ya.

I'm not sure why people think the concept of a deep state started with Trump's presidency. Laugh at the weak accusation and the deflection, don't laugh at the underpinnings of politics, you're only enabling censorship by doing so.

Shut the Fuck up Alex Jones. Dude you've been brain washed. Just buy your info wars products and stop spouting bullshit. Thank you

Are you denying that the U.S. has been funding terrorists?

Wrong sub. Shut the Fuck up

Its well known. But the deep state/globalist shit is so annoying to hear. It just sounds like a parrot. Repeating everything info wars says.

The deep state has been discussed and written about for decades. Why just because Trump is president and his supporters use the term does it suddenly become a joke?

Fuck off. Idc. It doesn't affect me, trump Fuck heads can blame globalists all they want. Fuck trump and his supporters. So far trump is up there with Grover Cleveland as a do nothing president.

It does affect you, and if you didn't care you wouldn't have commented in this thread at all. You're just being childish right now for some reason.

Grover Cleveland and trump are on the same level of do nothing presidents. Let that sink in.

Dude either you care about politics or not. You don't get to deflect a person's points and act all flippant one moment, then think you can have actual conversation the next moment.

It's not worth any effort engaging you seriously when you might just metaphorically throw your hands in the air again.

Trump=Grover Cleveland. Goodnight 👍

I already didn't care, when I heard about it. Too used to that.

It diverts attention from Elections being rigged by Clintons that's for sure.

Doubtful. White mass murderers mass murdering white people isnt very controversial unless they can pin it on white nationalists or antifa.

Mass shootings are occurring at the same rate they have for the last 40 years. They are just becoming more deadly recently.

LOl....of course they can fake the loss of life. They do all the time. Ask Angel Colon of the Pulse event how he took 6 rounds from a Sig Sauer MCX and walked out of the hospital 4 days later. Listen to his conversation about the hoax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDFJFOC-kSA&t=101s

Angel Colon? Now there's a name straight from tue random name generator.

You cannot takee the loss of life

Why not? Have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? Go read the declassified document. The US govt is willing to kill people, fake killings, and conduct fake funerals for political agendas.

Instead of mindlessly following the official narrative, you should be skeptical of what you're told and should do your own investigation. There are more false flags than you think.

I like how you're getting downvotes even though there are documents RELEASED stating into this issue.

Downvotes are people who are just scared

Yeah, people just downvote whatever they don't like to hear, no matter how much proof you have for your claims. People think it is too far-fetched that the govt would fake killings and create fake news stories and fake funerals to accompany them, but they admitted to contemplating that very thing in the 60s.

You know about Northwoods precisely because it was not deployed because those in charge found it repugnant. Northwoods does not support your theory it is evidence for the fact that every now and again the good guys restrain evil and prevent it even when others think it is in the best interest of the country.

Except it was approved by the joint chiefs of staff and was only rejected once it reached JFKs desk. The only reason it didn't go through was because you had a president that actually had something resembling a conscience. Op Northwoods isn't proof of govt being good, it's proof of govt being capable and willing to do great evil.

A different president and we would have never heard about it - instead there would have been a wikipedia page about the Cuban attack that provoked a war with the US, and you would be call me a conspiracy theorist for saying it was actually a false flag.

How is what you said different from what I said... It doesn't matter that the joint chiefs approved the executive branch stopped it. Checks mate balances.... Because good people stood up evil was stopped... It still makes the example awkwardly inept.

You said it is proof of govt being good when it the opposite. The plan reached the final step before being denied. Like i said, if 6 had a president with less of a conscience, we wouldn't have heard about it and instead the official narrative would be that Cuba provoked the US into a war and I would be called crazy for saying it was false flag where no one died.

Look into some of the events that turned to be false flags: gulf of tonkin, lusitania, 911 to name a few. Northwoods is the only time they didn't go through with it that we know about. There are many more instances of them going through with it that we know about. Northwoods is affirmation of the great evil we know our govts are capable and willing to commit.

Its also funny how this is not hetting the anti gunners all triggered. It was after all a citizen who grabbed his gun and started shooting back. Where is the uproar?

Some terrorists blow themselves up with bombs. Some go down shooting.

Sounds very ‘Western’ to go down in a hail of bullets.

I don’t think every shooting in America is a terrorist act.

I think every shooting not done in self defense is it’s own terroristic act. Anywhere in the world. Just like there are no defensive bombs.

Hell, the US is now straight up saying that the only way to de-arm NK’s nukes is a ground invasion. We’re the most offensive people, in every regard.

I’m selfish though, and happy for it. I’m a lot better off than the poor people we let get slaughtered in Syria.

I’ll just leave this here... there’s ties to pizzagate.

Church shooting in Sutherland Springs Texas. 27 dead

Mass shootings happen every single day in America.

yes, they probably do happen in inner cities every day if 4 casualties is the definition. shootings with 27 dead and possibly more dont happen every day

Well the last 2 months are setting a disturbing pattern, maybe congress will act soon. Also, I don't think it should matter if its 27 dead to one or spread out to our great 33k a year, it should be fixed.

Maybe Congress will act soon? What are you trying to say, gun control?

Don’t know why someone would come in r/conspiracy and try to support more government control over the citizens.

Thank you.

And what do you suppose Congress should do to "stop" this problem?

Ration ammo out like we do cough medicine, better background checks, better mental healthcare, better firearms training. Any of the things other countries do to help prevent gun violence.

Reasonable rationing of ammo and charging cops big $ to reload would be good things. The rest too.

If only we could get a break in mass shooting to think about these ideas.

To say anything against firearms is viewed by some as literal treason. To pretend there is no problem is refusing accountability and just deepens the gap. Personally, I lean more towards arm everyone more and more these days, with plenty of paint and other “less lethal” ammo available for target shooting, training and preferred deterrent. I don’t even like guns or gun culture, but we can’t wish them away, and most of the gun nuts are pro government again this cycle, they won’t fight the badges or uninforms.

plenty of paint and "less lethal" ammo available for target shooting

you have no idea how ballistics and target shooting works, do you? You can't really make ammo "less lethal," and you don't want "less lethal" as a defensive deterrent.

Does the fact that it's a constitutional right make all the negatives suddenly OK?

Is that even an argument?

If something is fucked it doesn't matter what piece of paper it's written on, or who the fuck wrote it, or even why they wrote it.

I honestly don't understand the whole thing, never have. It seems stupid.

Does the fact that it's a constitutional right make all the negatives suddenly OK?

Absolutely. Does abuse of free speech, including using it to provoke violence, mean that the ability to speak and think freely isn't worth it?

is that even an argument?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Giving up your rights so that Big Brother can treat you like a child-subject is not the solution to any problem.

If something is fucked it doesn't matter what piece of paper it's written on, or who the fuck wrote it, or even why they wrote it.

So, wait, you're saying that anytime something bad happens, we need to just go full feels ahead and abandon any kind of examination for why our laws exist the way they do, and the rationale behind putting them in place?

I honestly don't understand the whole thing, never have. It seems stupid.

Fine for you, but your ignorance does not make an argument.

Not comparable, nice try though.

Not what I'm saying, nice try though.

"You're ignorant because I deserve muh gunz, and muh freedom, no matter how many people die,"

Am I doing this right, putting words in peoples mouthes?

It is comparable, inherent in freedom is risk. People will abuse those freedoms and harm others. That doesn't negate the necessity of freedom.

not what I'm saying, nice try though

why don't you use your communication skills and make your point then?

"no matter how many people die"

other people abusing their freedoms at the behest of the deep state don't somehow turn me into a criminal. And it's not just me who deserves "muh gunz and muh freedom," it's everyone. You're trying to frame this as selfishness and lack of concern for others, but bad things happening do not negate our basic rights as human beings. You've fallen prey to the lie that Big Brother has your best interests in mind that that Big Brother wants to take care of you because he is concerned for your well-being.

am I doing this right?

no, you're doing a really bad job of it actually. I wouldn't expect much less from a statist.

You say that you're not being selfish, but in the same breath it's all me, me, me.

"Don't turn ME into a criminal"

Not at all, I know for a fact that my government does not have my best interests at heart. It is what it is.

But you know what? I sleep soundly at night knowing that none of this shit is an issue here.

0.2 deaths per 100,000 in the UK compared to 10.2 in the US, relating to guns of course.

How is thay statistic not saying to you that there is something wrong?

How many people need to lose their life?

How is the second amendment even still allowed to be a thing? It was written hundreds of years ago when shit was very different, how is it even still relevant?

I'm not trying to convince you, I just honestly don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.

I know for a fact that my government does not have my best interests at heart. It is what it is.

So you're basically just okay with being a serf then. Got it.

How is thay statistic not saying to you that there is something wrong?

How many people need to lose their life?

by that same logic, shouldn't you be deporting all of the muslims in your country then? You seem to have been having a pretty big problem lately with knife attacks, acid attacks, truck and car attacks, and bombings.

How is the second amendment even still allowed to be a thing? It was written hundreds of years ago when shit was very different, how is it even still relevant?

Because an armed populace doesn't just magically stop being a check against tyranny. There's a reason they've disarmed all of you before pushing all of the authoritarian shit they've been pushing.

I'm not trying to convince you, I just honestly don't get it, and I don't think I ever will.

I wouldn't expect you to, you've given up your freedom, dignity, and soul to a government that is actively seeking to destroy you and replace you with third-world immigrants. Enjoy what little you have while you still have it, it'll be gone sooner than you realize.

You're too much, honestly. This conversation has run it's course. Have a nice life.

ah, turning away from a confrontation. How British of you. Did I hit a nerve?

How y'all managed to make a globe-spanning empire is beyond me.

Quite frankly, this conversation is pointless, and going nowhere. You've confirmed everything I already knew about your obsession with guns.

You're mistaking me for a British soldier from hundreds of years ago. Easy mistake. Nothing I've ever done in my life has anything to do with that, of course, because I'm not over a hundred years old. But it's okay, feel free to keep obsessing over that too.

Fuck me, youre an utter moron.

You've confirmed everything I already knew about your obsession with guns.

Which is what, exactly? It feels to me like I hit a nerve pretty deep with that Muslim thing. Your logic is shit and you know it.

You're mistaking me for a British soldier from hundreds of years ago.

No, I'm wondering how a country that produced one of the greatest global empires in history, who really formed the foundation for european human rights, and who established laws and practices that changed the world for the better has been reduced to a bunch of pushover ninnies who let their abusive government steamroll them without so much as a whimper.

You're mistaking me for a British soldier from hundreds of years ago.

woah, careful with that insult there. that kind of rude talk over the internet could get you a fine or worse!

This is simply a concession for the shooting range crowd, a comptimise on rationed ammo.. like I said, backed up by a fully armed populace. But there needs to be some degree of deterent, and IMO on in sanctioned ammo is a decent compromise.

I hate guns, because they empower cowards. I don’t hate every usage of them, but I do miss the days of fistfights being more common than shootings. I totally get the point of the 2nd, but most of those “over my dead body” people are the same ones saying comply or die and cheering police brutality. They won’t do a damm thing. There are exceptions, but we’re speaking of the majority of these folks online.personally, I don’t want much gun control with the populace, but there IS a problem with gun safety and responsibility, drunk shootings and gangbanger thugs, in and out of uniform... along with a tendency to get too defensive of the very gun culture that sadly often wears its “safety” like a neckerchief.

a concession for the shooting range crowd

you mean the crowd that's been making concessions since 1930? Wow, what a great deal, we really get so much out of your "compromise"!

I hate guns because they empower cowards

they also empower the physically weak and those otherwise at a major disadvantage if they need to protect themselves, and you're missing out on the point of them if this is all you think.

but I do miss the days of fistfights being more common than shootings

and I'm assuming sword duels as well, since you seem to think that pre-stone age weaponry is the best way to settle differences. I kid, I actually kind of agree with you...a lot of problems could be solved if people just punched it out, but that's not really going to stop gang warfare and terrorism.

but most of those “over my dead body” people are the same ones saying comply or die and cheering police brutality. They won’t do a damm thing.

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. The ones who talk the biggest are usually the ones who will puss out first.

but there IS a problem with gun safety and responsibility

how so? the vast majority of the (at least) tens of millions of gun owners who learn gun safety and responsibility in the home seem to be doing just fine.

drunk shootings

You mean drunk people doing stupid shit? Kinda like drunk driving?

and gangbanger thugs, in and out of uniform

Well, I don't disagree with you there, either...but you have to look at this problem in the context of a country with 320 million people in it. The problem seems terrible when you take the numbers for face value, but when you zoom out a bit it's maybe not quite as bad as it seems.

That being said, I actually do agree with you. Gang violence and police thuggery are both huge problems. But they're also problems that have existed since our ancestors first organized themselves into tribes. Domination/authority and tribalism are pretty deeply engrained in us. How do you propose we go about "fighting" that?

I don’t know. But refusing to take any actions hasn’t been doing us a lot of good. I don’t have a solve all, nor am I even involved in politics beyond talking online.

Well, like I said, in this scenario, every household/vehicle/person would be assumed to be armed. I’d say that’s a pretty big win for the 2nd. However, many, either through negligence or malice would have incidents. I also don’t want to take away sport shooting, or even hunting. Doesn’t leave much room for anything but rationed live rounds and easy access to “Rubber bullet” type ammo to help deter (not magically prevent all) fatalities over trivial stuff.

Guns have plenty of uses. I don’t like war and think most assaliants can be stopped without killing them, so yeah, I’m biased, but I have zero issues with game hunting and shooting stuff that’s not alive for fun. There not JUST for cowards, and leveling the playing field is a valid point.

I’m always more bothered by the kid who finds the unlocked weapon and kills their sibling or other innocent deaths due to neglect as opposed to the evil of killers with foul intent. Gun control wouldn’t stop a truly determined individual. Mandatory training might save a kiddo though, as well as less lethal rounds in more firearms. Which might flow over to less gang/passion shootings.

Of course, just like if we legalized all the drugs, there would be some chaos, and death as the idiots won’t wait long.

Plenty of people have weapons and the safety catches/training for responsible ownership, but kinda like the bad apples in law enforcement, most of the time it just goes back to the same (reasonable) fear of turning into a slippery slope of confiscation if they admit maybe there should be tighter checks/ restrictions on insanely powerful killing machines. This is why I think the bullets themselves need to be the change, but not so much as to nullify the point of the firearm.

I DO not support gun confiscation, and have recently become aware of just how much crime is simply possession of a weapon under weapon bans that really shouldn’t exist as they do.

Also of note, in my utopian fantasy here, there would be no artificial demand for crime, legalize drugs, prostutition, other “victimless” crimes regarding personal choice and freedoms. UBI and not for profit healthcare for all, alongside private options and the ability to choose whatever kind of whacky new treatment you want, so long as you sign the waivers.

how do people make money in your utopia?

that's really all I'm curious about haha

Define "reasonable"

or we could ban guns like they do in Mexico. really cuts down on violence down there, eh?

"other countries" don't have a second amendment, so why don't you start there and work on getting it repealed

You have a right to own a firearm, nothing about bullets, the type or how hard it can be to obtain one. Mexico actually has LESS gun fatalities per 100k than the US, so maybe choose a better example.

Man, why you wanna bring up facts??? Erybody knows Messicans are always shootin each other and cut they heads off right and left.

To be fair, they do have a much higher murder rate but still manage a lower overall death rate due to the ease of suicide from firearms in the US. And combine that with suicide rate plummeting if the first attempt is failed and we have a good reason to try and act.

Fact is you only need one bullet to end your own life, so what are ammunition rations going to achieve? That seems like a disingenuous interpretation of the Bill of Rights...

There are really so many ways a person could end their own life. Most are much worse than a bullet. Bottom line is this is a mental health issue and you aren't going to fix it that easily.

In countries that have heavier restrictions on gun ownership suicide doesn't disappear. Japan, India, South Korea, Belgium, Sweden, Russia, Ukraine ect. have a higher instance of suicide per 100k than the United States. If there is a will there is a way. Has there ever been an instance in which guns were banned and the number of suicides decreased?

http://home.uchicago.edu/ludwigj/papers/JAMA_Brady_2000.pdf

Shows suicide rates for people over 55 were lowered, I'm sure if looked into we could craft laws to help other groups.

I don't think it will stop suicide but I think it leads to lowering the numbers. Guns make up 50% of suicides overall and I think we could look into both gun violence and suicide prevention at the same time.

Why not try to figure out why these people are depressed to the point of taking their own lives? Taking away their means of committing suicide doesn't fix their problem. It doesn't change their situation. There is nothing stopping them from moving on to the next available option. Guns are not physically driving people to do this.

I'm not saying gun laws are perfect in this country. They could certainly use some reform. I just do not think any sort of reform will prevent people from committing suicide. This is an issue with how mental health issues are diagnosed and treated in this country.

How much of the suicides, and senseless gun violence can be attributed to improperly treated (anitdepressants) or undaignosed mental disorders?

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You lose this right if you do drugs or have been to prison, it is already infringed. The constitution is meant to be amended and it is time to rethink what the purpose of a militia is in modern day when thousands die every year and none are in a militia.

The definition of the militia is the same today as it was then. No amendments needed. But hey, Mao and Stalin thought it wise to take away guns also...

being in a militia isn't a prerequisite to owning a firearm in the 2A language.

and if thousands of deaths are really your concern, maybe you ought to set your sights a little higher, to things like diabetes and heart disease and obesity?

diabetes and heart disease and obesity?

These all have scientific and medical alternative solutions, many of which are starting human clinical trials. Access to weapons and the attitudes casual ownership brings is entirely a social issue; you can't fix people's weakness towards high-velocity projectiles, you can restrain the ability of people to get said projectiles.

sounds like you're describing a cultural problem more than anything else.

the attitude casual ownership brings

which is what, exactly? You think it's flippancy? Because there are tens of millions of gun owners in the country who'd want to have some words with how wrong you are in your estimation of this situation.

Why not just increase education? It's what you advocate for with everything else? Why not make firearms safety education a mandatory part of public schooling?

you can restrain the ability of people to get said projectiles

not really, all you're going to do is create a black market for said projectiles. You're talking about America here, where there are by the most conservative estimates one gun for every man, woman, and child in the country.

A WELL-REGULATED militia is not a lone wolf with an arsenal looking to kill citizens for a personal vendetta. Just sayin.

The only reason you would even make a point like that is because you hate freedom. I mean that quite literally, it's such an obviously stupid thing to say (implying that people who own guns are pro-murder) that it betrays your ulterior motive of taking away people's natural law rights.

Citing the actual language of the Constitution means I hate freedom? Lol ok.

You know I was referring to your outlandish claim that the 2nd Amendment means a right for a "one wolf with an arsenal looking to kill citizens for a personal vendetta."

Misrepresenting what I said is not some harmless thing. It's not harmless rhetoric. It is lying. When you do it, that makes you a liar.

This is the second time you've made ridiculous distortions for effect. Do you to be known as a liar? Is that how you want to live your life?

Lol I'm not worried about my reputation for saying outlandish things on /r/conspiracy. I don't live my life here.

How's that working out? No well regulated militia, the state taken over by a hostile power, the most-armed cohort in the country adamantly supporting the take-over...yeah, guns protect our freedom...

So we should trust the government to ration ammo? Like seriously?

The government already does disallow certain guns and ammo from people. Or do you think a bunch of people with handguns can still form a militia to stop the US military?

or do you think a bunch of people with handguns can still form a militia to stop the US military

I think you have some really, really big knowledge gaps and quite a few misconceptions in regards to how this whole thing works and how it would play out.

What if the government isn't restricting guns to make the population keep killing itself?

I saw how the bundy takeover went, ruby ridge, waco, they lost hard with a plan and more guns than most people.

what if the government isn't restricting guns to make the population keep killing itself?

what other reason would it have than disarming its populace? "public safety" is just how they sell it.

Maybe they want the workforce to stop dying to keep the GDP growing.

If that was what they cared about, they'd be making their push against diabetes, heart disease, and obesity instead.

Gun deaths, even when you include suicides, barely hit 30,000 annually. That's not even a thousandth of the population.

they'd be making their push against diabetes, heart disease, and obesity instead.

They are. It's why sugar is a daily percentage on food labels now. It's why all fast food joints in the US has to show at least calories per meal/drink. It's why there were several pushes (rebuffed by republicans) to fix our nations school lunches to be actually nutritious in some way.

Because you ignore the news because you have been distracted by anti-gun rhetoric, does not mean these things do not also happen. It is possible to tackle multiple problems simultaneously; in fact that's the positive of increased bureaucracy, the ability to handle a wide range of problems and present multiple solutions in a moderate amount of time, whereas a smaller government may tackle a single issue more efficiently, it would quickly be overwhelmed with the sheer number of issues it would have to solve and overall time to solution would increase.

But they're not banning sugar. They're not limiting access to sugar. And sugar isn't actually a daily percentage, they are only required to list the sugar content in grams. All they're doing is educating about sugar.

muh republican boogeyman

I'm not saying they're great or even good, but dems are just as compromised by the food lobby in America.

You're asking for things to be banned. You're asking for access to things to be limited.

that's the positive of increased bureaucracy, the ability to handle a wide range of problems and present multiple solutions

you've never actually dealt with a bureaucracy before, have you?

have you?

Have you? Set one thing in motion, move to the next. Idiots focused on a single action complain about bureaucracy because 'it slows them down,' while those that can work within the requirements of the system move ahead. Single issue candidates in a political office often get nothing of value done, but get reelected once or twice since they have a popular idea amongst a portion of the population, this strategy fails over time however because people get frustrated with no results. Multi-issue candidates are generally the ones staying decades in congress because they can effectively start and maintain control of multiple requests, so when one part of one request finally goes through, they've already started their next ten ideas.

But they're not banning sugar. They're not limiting access to sugar.

One step at a time, and sugar is necessary in small amounts.

All they're doing is educating about sugar.

Education about the real effects of an item is the first step towards limiting an item within reason. Or do you still like that leaded gasoline, I hear it makes your engine quiet!

You're asking for things to be banned. You're asking for access to things to be limited.

Within reason, yes. No civilian on this planet needs access to tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition and the means to expend that much ammo in a short amount of time. No civilian on this planet needs 10+ guns. No civilian needs automatic or burst fire weaponry.

Some how other countries, even ones with fairly lax gun laws, do not have the issues we have, even when adjusted for population and land mass. We are unique, and never in a good way. Additionally those countries have somehow not turned into fascist nightmarescapes where you either suck off your nearest Inner Party member or have a rat eat out your eyes.

have you?

I endured 6 years of it in the military, so yeah. Bureaucracy encourages time wasting unnecessary red tape and stagnant mediocrity. The only advantage a massive bureaucracy has is that it's hard to stop something once it gets rolling from the sheer momentum of all of the bloat and mass and waste that comes along with it.

One step at a time

Why do you want it banned? Why is the solution to widely proliferated things that can be harmful if misused to ban them? Has that worked so far with other things, like drugs and alcohol?

Education about the real effects of an item is the first step towards limiting an item within reason

So shouldn't you think that firearms safety should be a mandatory part of public education then?

Within reason, yes

Okay, so who defines what is "reasonable," and why?

No civilian on this planet needs access to tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition and the means to expend that much ammo in a short amount of time. No civilian on this planet needs 10+ guns. No civilian needs automatic or burst fire weaponry.

No civilian on this planet needs access to the internet for anything other than educational purposes. No civilian on this planet needs to be able to get on a website to talk with a random stranger. No civilian on this planet needs to be able to secure their browsing history from their government.

Good thing it's my right then, not some arbitrary "need" argument that you're parroting from the mindwashing you've not broken yourself from.

Some how other countries

tbh I stopped taking you seriously after this. If you care so much about what "other countries" think of the United States, then why the hell are you still even here? Wouldn't it be easier for you just to go where it's "better" than to try to stay here and "change" things?

Okay, so who defines what is "reasonable," and why?

An executive committee using the peer-reviewed research of scientists and sociologists, we have no such function currently because this country is so adverse to experts.

No civilian on this planet needs access to the internet for anything other than educational purposes. No civilian on this planet needs to be able to get on a website to talk with a random stranger. No civilian on this planet needs to be able to secure their browsing history from their government.

How in the name of the nine divine do you think those things are equal?

"I don't want you to be able to take dozens of lives." "WELL I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO CASUAL INTERNET USE." ...?

why are you treating everyone with a large collection and a stockpile of ammo as a criminal?

There's no other legitimate reason for it.

Your argument is "no civilian needs (such and such)."

Because 27 people died today. If you count shootings involving more than 4 victims a mass shooting statistically occurs every day here. We have the domestic security of a third world country that can't afford a police force, that upsets me. Enabling mass slaughter because of some perceived right written in and meant for the stupid ages is incredibly stupid.

tbh I stopped taking you seriously after this. If you care so much about what "other countries" think of the United States, then why the hell are you still even here?

So... because other countries are other countries we shouldn't use their ideas?

You realize we fall behind in every single metric except defense spending, right?

The US isn't in the top ten of most QoL or freedom metrics. Why do you not want your country to be the best by adopting the best policies of the free world?

Why are you allowing your blind nationalism to stop progress because of outdated ideals that could not possibly work in reality, especially when we're currently seeing those ideals fail?

we have no such function currently because this country is so adverse to experts

it could also be that "experts" aren't always what they're cracked up to be, and that often times studies can be and are fudged to get "desired" results so that more funding can come in.

It seems like what you really want is for someone else to make your choices for you.

How in the name of the nine divine do you think those things are equal?

The point is that "need" is arbitrary and it doesn't matter. It doesn't make for a good argument.

"I don't want you to be able to take dozens of lives."

...but I'm not going to? Nor are the overwhelming majority of the tens of millions of other gun owners in the country?

What I'm really getting out of your arguments is that you don't like autonomy and you have some deep-seated murder in your heart that you're projecting onto everyone else.

there's no other legitimate reason for it?

hahaha, why?

so I can't enjoy collecting firearms or have a stockpile to be prepared for the worst? That makes me a criminal now?

Because 27 people died today.

so let's throw away the constitution!

Hey, how many more died from heart disease today? How many more died from the myriad of cancers that have exploded into being since processed food became a regular part of our diet? How many more died in drunk driving accidents? Why aren't you bleeding heart-ing over that as well?

If you count shootings involving more than 4 victims a mass shooting statistically occurs every day here.

Okay, and what are those real numbers in the end? We have a country of a little over 320 million people. Does that number, statistically, end up being such a huge and catastrophic result that it warrants stripping the protected rights of the rest of us? Does that warrant all of the extra deaths and civil war that will occur if your confiscation fantasies take off and someone stupid enough actually tries it?

We live in a country of 320 million, and there is at least one gun out there for every person. How are you going to close pandora's box?

tens of millions of people own guns. They shoot guns. They keep them in their closet or in their night stand. They keep them around their kids. And they seem to be able to get by just fine. If we truly had a gun violence problem here, the stats would be so much worse than what you're putting up.

We have the domestic security of a third world country that can't afford a police force, that upsets me.

maybe if you live in a big city...but then, what does that really say about big cities? They attract crime?

f some perceived right written in and meant for the stupid ages is incredibly stupid.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" isn't "perceived," it's pretty explicit.

I get that you seem to be pretty bitten by the mainstream lefty bug, and that also makes me curious why you're in a place like r/conspiracy at all. But you do understand what a monopoly of violence is, right? Do you honestly think our government, or any government, should/can be trusted with something like that? That track record is so much worse than a few civilian shootings.

You realize we fall behind in every single metric except defense spending, right?

The funny thing is, back when we were ahead of everyone else, our gun laws were actually far less restrictive and we had far fewer mass shootings.

Why do you not want your country to be the best by adopting the best policies of the free world?

Do you really believe anywhere else is actually "the free world?" Embracing globalism in no way makes you free.

Why are you allowing your blind nationalism to stop progress because of outdated ideals that could not possibly work in reality, especially when we're currently seeing those ideals fail

Holy hell, you actually don't have any original thought in you at all, do you?

Lurk around here a little bit more. Maybe you'll see that "progress" is a buzzword and "forward" movement is an illusion: we are cyclical creatures, not "advancing" ones. "Outdated ideals" have survived because contrary to how you've been conditioned to see the world, they end up being what works best in the long run on the largest scale.

we're currently seeing those ideals fail

no, we're currently seeing a malicious and desperate deep state lashing out in an attempt to distract us from the enormous shitbomb that's about to explode. I mean, shit, this very thread is about exactly that. These next few weeks are gonna be fun, just watch.

Left and right are illusions, but whatever, keep believing the left is the real party of control.

tens of millions of people own guns. They shoot guns. They keep them in their closet or in their night stand. They keep them around their kids. And they seem to be able to get by just fine. If we truly had a gun violence problem here, the stats would be so much worse than what you're putting up.

I don't know how you breathe. This is one of the only countries on the planet where toddlers regularly shoot themselves and others. This does not happen elsewhere.

back when we were ahead of everyone else,

This arguably lasted approximately 20 years after WWII, the rest of our history shows we excel only in violence and desperately fall behind in all other categories. Even then it took a presidential assassination before the country woke up a little and realized not everyone should have weapons.

Do you really believe anywhere else is actually "the free world?" Embracing globalism in no way makes you free.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2016-update-3.pdf

Lurk around here a little bit more. Maybe you'll see that "progress" is a buzzword and "forward" movement is an illusion: we are cyclical creatures, not "advancing" ones. "Outdated ideals" have survived because contrary to how you've been conditioned to see the world, they end up being what works best in the long run on the largest scale.

There is evidence humans are forgetful and we've had advanced civilizations that have since disappeared. There is no evidence that a version of humanity (in its current form)has existed long enough to advance to the point we are at. This shows advancement. The entirety of the 21st century shows we are beyond the pale of the cycle of kings and empires; you like talking about pandora's box, modern society in its absolute and pure magic relative to the rest of known human existence is that metaphor, it cannot be put back without the species being completely wiped.

no, we're currently seeing a malicious and desperate deep state lashing out in an attempt to distract us from the enormous shitbomb that's about to explode. I mean, shit, this very thread is about exactly that. These next few weeks are gonna be fun, just watch.

If you think anything at all is going to change from the paradise papers, you obviously did not pay enough attention to the panama papers.

Left and right are illusions, but whatever, keep believing the left is the real party of control.

I mean, I guess we could split hairs and say that the globalist/authoritarian statist/marxist is the party of control, but they tend to lean towards what is perceived as the Left in America, though they should also include NeoCons and NeoLibs as well.

This is one of the only countries on the planet where toddlers regularly shoot themselves and others.

regularly? lol what exactly does "regularly" entail in a country with 320 million people and at least as many guns?

You do realize you're speaking to someone who has young kids, who also keeps his guns locked up and his ammo out of reach, right? You're acting like somehow people aren't capable of taking responsibility on their own or teaching responsibility to their children.

Even then it took a presidential assassination before the country woke up a little and realized not everyone should have weapons.

Are you talking about JFK? And you do know where you're posting, right? Nothing at all in the GCA of 1968 could have prevented a deep-state assassination, and nothing at all in the GCA of 1968 could have prevented what the official story said happened, either. Nothing about any reactive gun control law could have actually put a stop to whatever incident that it is a reaction to. It is always just an excuse for the power cabal to disarm the peons and tighten their stranglehold over us. Always.

the human freedom index You're really going to trust that assessment? You think the metrics and criteria they use are actually accurately measured and assessed and really reflect how "free" a given society is? Because there's no way Hong Kong should be number one. There's no freaking way England should be number six, just on freedom of expression alone.

This shows advancement.

It shows a spiral that occasionally turns upward. "Progress" is a buzzword used by statists to destroy stabile societies and supplant them with the State.

If you think anything at all is going to change from the paradise papers, you obviously did not pay enough attention to the panama papers.

The Panama papers didn't also coincide with the mass roundup of Saudi Arabia's most prominent billionaire influence peddlers. The Paradise papers do. A lot of key figures in the cabal have just been taken out of the game, and things might not be able to be kept hidden like they were before.

no, it's made the process to get a fully-automatic machine gun prohibitively expensive

they also make it extremely hard to get even if you have the money.

Send troops into CIA headquarters.

Lol too true

that figure includes every death by gun, not mass shootings

that includes suicides which are nearly half of the number, and the bulk of the remainder is gang & drug related murder....of the small fraction left, and even smaller fraction is mass shootings

don't be thick

So you don't want to possibly save 33k americans a year?

Yes. Stop the CIA from selling drugs.

Oh snap!

We should make a law banning cancer. It will be equally as effective

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

10.4/100,000

Let's throw constitutional rights out the window because .001% of the population are killed by that thing...

This list includes justifiable homicides, suicides, and accidental fatalities

Do I have to keep going here?

THE CONSTITUTION IS MEANT TO BE CHANGED

So you do not want people to stop killing themselves with easy to aquire fire arms?

People can kill themselves in all kinds of ways. I don't think we should ban knives if someone stabs them self. we shouldn't just outright ban anything someone can kill themself with. Someone committing suicide is sad, but if it doesn't hurt me I have no say in their life choices. I just don't understand the argument. Are you trolling or serious?

Someone committing suicide is sad, but if it doesn't hurt me I have no say in their life choices.

You don't think these people have families or friends?

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide

Seems like it would be smart to remove or limit firearms when they mostly contribute to heinous acts.

He's either trolling or severely.... misguided.

Yea I mean that would be nice if we could just do that, but, ya know, trying to prevent tyranny and all that noise. It's a complicated issue for sure, but you need to look at outcomes and laws in practice, not just theory, or intentions.

Do you think the government would become tyrannicle and not implement a way to take guns that wouldn't have popular support. We already have checks and balances to prevent tyranny and I don't think the 30% of the population that owns a gun can beat an organized government. Catalonia is currently revolting against a "tyrannicle government" without a militia. We are calling ISIS terrorists but I'm sure they see themselves as patriots taking back their country (although clearly they are bad).

Not a bad point. I think that scenario is really just a matter of opinion without us having the ability to see what would actually happen in practice. It's hard to say because the US pop does have some serious fire power as you noted before. That's at least fair, posting gun deaths per 100k won't change any minds, it's so out of context.

Yeah nothing will change minds it seems. People think that making laws that could help prevent mass shootings or reduce gun deaths = banning all firearms ever and ensuring tyranny. They also seem to think the law cannot be changed back if it does not work but they won't even try it.

First of all, be honest the laws never "change back" when they don't work. That just doesn't happen, and you have to admit it would be incredibly difficult to measure what exact impact a certain law has on gun deaths. Sometimes it has the exact opposite effect than intended. Yea, we can try, but some feel the cost is too great.

Redditor for 9 days. Shitty troll is shitty.

So do you think we should still have slaves or you think we should ignore gun violence?

Bad troll is still bad.

Relax and have a drink thanks to the 21st amendment overturning the 18th.

Ok.

I'd rather that than people fucking hanging themselves or slitting their wrists

But we can save some of those people at least.

suicides

which are horrible for the people left behind, but a single humans right to exit when they choose.

the core of American business and work culture is work until you are no longer profitable for the bosses, then go away and die.

Are you suggesting we deport inner city blacks? That's racist.

Today's was one of the five worst in American history.

Three of the top five have occurred in the last 18 months.

they don't happen every day. common

There have been 376 so far this year, maybe it skipped a day but it could cover every day if it wanted.

“It” as in the manifestation of mass shootings?

If you spread out shooting victims across days it would no longer mean it’s a mass shooting. It would be separate crimes, or a spree killer, etc.

No, mass shooting is 4 people injured or killed and in that definition 376 have happened this year so far. https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

agenda driven definition "of mass shooting" if I ever saw one

90% of those say "shooter unknown" --- ask the average person on the street how many mass shootings there have been where the identity of the shooter was never discovered - bet they say zero

Maybe it is really easy to shoot 4 people from a car and get away, we could probably change that.

Hmm, learned something new. Thanks! But now i feel they're should be a different term for when it's so many more, unfortunately.

Probably, but we also ban the cdc from investigating gun violence so we probably won't be getting better stats anytime soon.

That's unfortunate

The unfortunate part is that things like climate change get proven with science yet nothing gets done and congress is SO afraid of changing gun laws they can't even let the science come out for it before denying change.

Mainstream only report white people getting shot or when a muslim was involved

Mainstream only report white minority people getting shot, when a muslim was involved, or when the shooter was white.

you don't honestly believe that do you?

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data they all have news stories attached.

Now take gang violence out of that figure and get back to me.

Why would we take gang violence out of that figure?

Because calling some dumbass shooting up a rival gang in shittown Chicago just pads the stats.

No one ever want's to talk about black on black crime anyways. It's too racist.

It doesn’t pad the stats it is the stats. If you don’t care it’s because you’re a racist.

Who brought up race lol

The top five most deadly mass shootings in America happened in the last 10 years. Virginia Tech (2007) is now the "oldest" mass shooting on the Top 5 American list, thanks to today in Texas.

Yes, but there weren't 300+ "mass shootings" this year. The number is only that high because the definition of "mass shooting" are so loose that most shootings are "mass shootings". By one definition, any homicide with more than 2 firearm related deaths is considered a "mass shooting". So I kill someone then kill myself. That's considered a "mass shooting".

No, it’s any shooting with 4 or more not including the perp. You can’t even be bothered to look up provable facts why should anyone believe she shit you all push in this subreddit.

And most of them involve the government in some way. From outright false flag operations, to MK Ultra victims, to street gangs doing drive-by shootings to control territory to distribute cocaine and heroin they get from the CIA.

using what definition

4 people injured or killed is the US definition.

Only in Chicago, Baltimore and Philly. They're very uncommon across the majority of the country.

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

Still a lot in other places, it isn't a single city issue, it is a national issue.

The American version of suicide bombings. "Someone" has learned something.

The fact this actually happened is the REAL conspiracy here. Which means it’ll never show up in this sub.

You fuckers grab at straws harder than a fat kid drinking sweet tea.

this^

Yes, the media hired a random white dude to sacrifice his life and shoot up a church because of the Panama Papers. Makes sense

It's called mkultra. Look into it

😂😂😂😂😂

mkultra isnt a fairy tale it's real and the information on it is readily available

I agree. But there is no such this as mind control. Plus this guy was younger than when MKUltra had ended even.

hypnotism is fake?

No, it’s real. But if you can’t get someone to do something when non-hypnotized, you’re unlikely to be able to get them to do it while they are hypnotized. Why is it so hard to just admit that this person was mentally ill?

I thought they renamed that program to Fox News.

I saw the movie about that, it was terrible

They aren't hired, they are activated.

MKUltra

Or someone was an asshole and just decided to shoot up a bunch of people. Does every single shooting have to have some political motive?

the shooter was antifa and politically motivated

Don't ALL mass shootings have a political motive?

Not really. Some people are just mentally challenged or have personal problems going on and decide to take it out on others.

You know not every single event is a conspiracy right?

That's what they want you to think.

Can't you say that in a less cliched crazy way

I think by being insanely cliche he's mocking the guy that thinks the mass shooting is a conspiracy. He's just demonstrating how insanely cliche that guy sounds.

But I could be wrong, you never know

The sub is constantly in the brink of compete satire

And the rest of Reddit isn't?

Who's "they"? How do I know onivivo isn't "they" and "they" want us to think that this is all orchestrated and not a random sequence of events in a chaotic world where everyone has free will? How do I know "they" don't want to distract from the terror of mass shootings by making us think it's all just fake and filled with actors?

People in this sub only believe what they believe because it fits into what they want to believe. Not because it's the only possibility or that they have any kind of proof, only because someone else within their "circle" said it is true and it fits into their imagined truth. I'd like this sub a hell of a lot more if it were filled with true, rational conspiracy theorists interested in getting to the truth of actual conspiracies, rather than people who call every single fucking god damn event in the world a conspiracy.

A bear can't shit in the woods without the (((deep state))) telling it to according to the people in this sub.

Your in the wrong sub

Sometimes things seem a bit too convenient my friend. You're right, but try and make a habit of looking around after big things like this leak happen and see what story will become "bigger" just in time for the media to focus on.

It's easier when asked "why did you not cover the massive leak exposing many of illegally hiding money away?" To answer "because we were covering the shooting that killed 27" than "we did not want to"

We get a mass shooting or other attack at least a couple times a month. With all the whistleblowing and investigations going on of course there's going to be coincidences.

Why would they do this to distract from it? How is it distracting from it? How would one attack prevent anything from coming of it? If they are constantly capable of pulling this shit off with no one finding out why are they not competent enough to prevent leaks of financial information or other mistakes "they" constantly make?

Some of these conspiracies requires "them" to be both incredibly, amazingly competent, and the most incompetent buffoons the world has ever seen at the same time.

We get a mass shooting or other attack at least a couple times a month

More than one a day

Actually they are.

Any time people get together to decide to do something they are conspiring.

One could say you can conspire with your own thoughts.

Everything is literally a conspiracy

I wonder if there are any victims from there caught up in the leak?

duuuude, wtf?!

And there you go... getting off track and changing the topic away from the corrupt elite.

Thank you!

No probably just confirmational bias

You should float this theory to those who were there, and the families of victims. See how it goes over.

the claim is that the shooting was planned by higher powers to distract not that it didnt happen

I know.

I mean it was a kid in a small town of 600

Wow, really reaching there.

When isn't there a fucking shooting here?

How would the shooting take coverage away from this?

You people are ridiculous.

At this point, the person who's distracting from the discussion on these papers, is you.

Yet Mainstream news stays silent. MY PHONE only updated to the shooting, not to the world changing papers. I am just observing all these comments have shown some serious psychological hair pin triggers for these people. It was a possible conclusion give me facts don't emotionally expose yourself everywhere.

P A N I C everyone! Run for the hills. Save yourselves!

Fuck off. People died. Im sorry your internet rhetoric makes you think a mass shooting will magically cover up all news ever. People are obviously paying attention to this story.

How is this the highest comment? Let’s talk about the subject and not some crazy allegations... this really makes me mad as hell. All of you are bitching constantly how everything is a conspiracy. And now that we finally got proof of some real shit all you do is thinking about other bullshit without any proof or whatsoever

You guys are utterly insane lol

It's the front page of the BBC. The shooting isn't even on there.

It's also the top story on the Guardian.

And the Times.

And the Süddeutsche Zeitung.

And Let's Monde.

Need I go on?

1. You called a shooting after one already happened.

2. Who is this shooting supposed to distract?

damn, son.

Any chance they will be 'investigating' US and EU media and government support for terrorists in Syria, including the FSA and White Helmets, or the child exploitation of 7 year old Bana Alabed by western governments, or do these 'reporters' from MSM orgs hired by the Ford, Soros and Adessium Foundation's actually do unbiased real journalism? Seems that the ICIJ is filled with 'reporters'.....err.....propagandists from the likes of the Guardian, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/ Our Supporters As a nonprofit organization, ICIJ relies on charitable foundations and financial support from the public. Cross-border investigative journalism is among the most expensive and riskiest in the world, and we are incredibly grateful to our supporters who make this work possible. The following list includes institutional and major individual donors who provided support in 2016 and 2017. If you’re interested in making a donation, you can learn more here. Adessium Foundation Ford Foundation Fritt Ord Foundation Green Park Foundation KCIJ Newstapa Moses Lubash Family Fund Neo4j Omidyar Network Open Society Foundations Rutgers Presbyterian Church Sigrid Rausing Trust Wellspring Philanthropic Fund Australian philanthropist and businessman Graeme Wood. And they actually have the nerve to ask for donations! Is Soro's $20 billion not enough to cover it. It sure covered the wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya!

Stop spamming this everywhere

You spammed this on my submission on the Paradise Papers as well.

Take a look at his history.

Obvious deflection is obvious.

Bad bot.

13.4 million documents is NOT the same as 13.4 million pages. A document could be a single line excerpt. 13,4 million pages isd41.5 gigs.

I believe the release was 1.4tb of documents.

The jfk files are 272 gigs.

wasn't that mostly because they were PDF's of scanned pages, and these paradise papers are a lot bigger because they're pure text data?

Lines of text or number of words would be the best way to compare the sizes of these types of documents.

Prolly tiffs

People generally don’t know image formats full stop.

Oldies don’t know what GeoTIFFs are.

yeah but PDF's of completely white pages are pretty small, filesize-wise :)

what a time to be alive. I think we are witnessing a massive red pilling and awakening of humanity, and sadly probably more war, N.K. most likely

The elite are simply eating their own trying to stay on top of the heap. This 'leak' funded by Soros and a bunch of his elitist friends in order to produce some smoke and mirrors so he can cover his own ass. Its basically him saying "look at what the other hand is doing." He's breaking their glass while covering his ass.

Funded by Soros. Sure buddy.

I'm fully ready to believe that if you provide literally any evidence.

But then you'd probably accuse him of spamming - can't win.

....what? Why in the hell would someone sprucing their claim be accused of spamming unless they were literally just posting nonsense repeatedly.

Soros hate = Putin tool.

Even more info comes out about how various usual suspects are tied up with Putin, and the tools say once again, "it's a Soros plot!"

I am so tired of these dumbass incels misinterpreting the Matrix.

Incels = swag for 2017

A document could be a single line excerpt

A document could also be 300 pages long... The dump is 1.4 terabytes.

hmz seems like they wanne get the attention away from the pedo shit by releasing a lot of the offshore wealth of poeple that will not get punished any way

Any chance they will be 'investigating' US and EU media and government support for terrorists in Syria, including the FSA and White Helmets, or the child exploitation of 7 year old Bana Alabed by western governments, or do these 'reporters' from MSM orgs hired by the Ford, Soros and Adessium Foundation's actually do unbiased real journalism? Seems that the ICIJ is filled with 'reporters'.....err.....propagandists from the likes of the Guardian, Washington Post, NY Times, etc.

https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/

Our Supporters As a nonprofit organization, ICIJ relies on charitable foundations and financial support from the public. Cross-border investigative journalism is among the most expensive and riskiest in the world, and we are incredibly grateful to our supporters who make this work possible. The following list includes institutional and major individual donors who provided support in 2016 and 2017. If you’re interested in making a donation, you can learn more here.

Adessium Foundation

Ford Foundation

Fritt Ord Foundation

Green Park Foundation

KCIJ Newstapa

Moses Lubash Family Fund

Neo4j

Omidyar Network

Open Society Foundations

Rutgers Presbyterian Church

Sigrid Rausing Trust

Wellspring Philanthropic Fund

Australian philanthropist and businessman Graeme Wood.

And they actually have the nerve to ask for donations! Is Soro's $20 billion not enough to cover it. It sure covered the wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya!

Bad bot!

Please don't post solicitations here. This is your warning.

Are you joking? A confirmed conspiracy of the global super rich elite and you want to divert attention to unconfirmed theories from 4chan?

A confirmed conspiracy ... and you want to divert attention to unconfirmed theories from 4chan?

Welcome to /r/conspiracy!

but muh anon!

This was announced by a throwaway account of the Panama papers subreddit two weeks ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PanamaPapers/comments/77n6ix/do_not_give_up_more_is_coming

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bad bot

nobody cares tbh

that's fucking awesome. "Paradise."

Any chance they will be 'investigating' US and EU media and government support for terrorists in Syria, including the FSA and White Helmets, or the child exploitation of 7 year old Bana Alabed by western governments, or do these 'reporters' from MSM orgs hired by the Ford, Soros and Adessium Foundation's actually do unbiased real journalism? Seems that the ICIJ is filled with 'reporters'.....err.....propagandists from the likes of the Guardian, Washington Post, NY Times, etc. https://www.icij.org/about/our-supporters/ Our Supporters As a nonprofit organization, ICIJ relies on charitable foundations and financial support from the public. Cross-border investigative journalism is among the most expensive and riskiest in the world, and we are incredibly grateful to our supporters who make this work possible. The following list includes institutional and major individual donors who provided support in 2016 and 2017. If you’re interested in making a donation, you can learn more here. Adessium Foundation Ford Foundation Fritt Ord Foundation Green Park Foundation KCIJ Newstapa Moses Lubash Family Fund Neo4j Omidyar Network Open Society Foundations Rutgers Presbyterian Church Sigrid Rausing Trust Wellspring Philanthropic Fund Australian philanthropist and businessman Graeme Wood. And they actually have the nerve to ask for donations! Is Soro's $20 billion not enough to cover it. It sure covered the wars in Ukraine, Syria and Libya! Maybe what Soros means to really say is....."Look over there, don't look at me!"

Any chance they will be 'investigating' US and EU media and government support for terrorists in Syria, including the FSA and White Helmets, or the child exploitation of 7 year old Bana Alabed by western governments, or do these 'reporters' from MSM orgs hired by the Ford, Soros and Adessium Foundation's actually do unbiased real journalism? Seems that the ICIJ is filled

Stop spamming the same comment over and over again.

Any chance they will be 'investigating' US and EU media and government support for terrorists in Syria, including the FSA and White Helmets, or the child exploitation of 7 year old Bana Alabed by western governments, or do these 'reporters' from MSM orgs hired by the Ford, Soros and Adessium Foundation's actually do unbiased real journalism? Seems that the ICIJ is filled

This is ridiculous. The fact that they don't cover every single story is hardly related to the genuine reporting done here.

Whataboutism at its worst.

That account is just spamming out the same link over and over again. Looks like a bot.

Its not whataboutism when it is Soros that is funding this new release and he is also trying to divert attention away from his own international crimes in Libya, Syria and Ukraine.....crimes that involves tens of thousands of people dying due to his funding of terror groups in Syria/Libya and Nazis in Ukraine.

Honestly man, I don't know much about whether George Soros runs the world or not. But I think you're so obsessed with him that you let it drown out other, important things going on in the world. If you focus too much on him, you're going to miss out on other stories and problems

Are you kidding? He is one of the main villains in all this.

Seriously, the importance of some multinationals not paying enough tax is being blown out of proportion.

This is a distraction. Any 'journalist' who is funded by open society foundation is compromised

Thank you, many folks want to simply jump on this newest release bandwagon without considering the source. When the source is Soros, everything must be questioned.

since your so well informed about soros...what kind of return on investment do you think soros got from his loan to trump?

BOOM!

Trump is compromised.

Hillary is compromised.

All journalists involved with OSF are compromised.

It's not a zero sum game.

The downvotes for speaking out against soros on a sub like this is, if not surprising, dissapointing.

If only more journalists could have the integrity of the young Turks https://youtu.be/LGmnTILNaPM

Its definitely off-putting when Trump criticism is tolerated at the same time that somebody speaking out against Soros is dismissed as a bot. I didn't even know those 2 things could exist here, let alone concurrently.

This is so hilarious. The source was the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung. They shared the data with ICIJ. Over 700 journalists from several highly acclaimed international newspapers worked on the data for over a year and published about it independently. But the fact that a charitable foundation connected to Soros has donated to ICIJ makes it all questionable in your mind? How did Soros via his donation make the journalists do their bidding, especially the guys from Süddeutsche Zeitung who obtained the data? Or from the Guardian?

I'd be surprised if you could come up with even one remotely plausible explanation how that would work.

So many people willing to go in and bat for Soros. On conspiracy of all places.

r/shills is all you need here right?

If I had that kind of money, this sub would be full of shills copy and pasting how big my dick is.

haha fuck that post made me smile legit.

You see this right here? This is textbook whataboutism. This is a shill who desperately does not want you reading the Paradise Papers.

Dismissal followed by the sell. good.

I will read them myself, just as I read the Panama Papers, but I will always also point out that Soros is behind this smoke and mirrors show because I have seen the extent of his war crimes which have destroyed so many innocent families. I am sorry you choose to overlook that fact.

You gonna read 13 million pages. Aight.

The trick to reading 13 million pages is to watch CNN

?what? Not sure I follow.

I just thought everybody would agree and I'd be applauded. You're really blowing up my spot here man.

Cannot wait to see how fast this sub ignores them when it's clear how much Trump and co show up.

Why? You know almost every other sub and most news outlets will be talking about only that if it were the case. What satisfaction would you get from confirming that a bias for Trump exists in a political and cultural environment that absolutely loathes the man?

I take a perverse pleasure in seeing a community that always prides itself on being so unbiased and above partisanship because they're such free-thinkers immediately fall in line and keep brown-nosing and deflecting. Honestly it's hilarious. It's not as funny when some place like TD or Conservative does it because they typically don't even pretend, but this place is all about conspiracies, with one glaring exception.

I can only imagine that you must have a bias preventing you from seeing what doesn't confirm your preconceived notions. There are a great number of us here who are in no way partisan and want all corruption, on every side and at every level, to be dealt with. It irks the hell out of me that so many people choose a side and are completely blind to the bullshit perpetrated by "their side." But there are a lot less people that fit that description here than any other subreddit.

There are a great number of us here who are in no way partisan and want all corruption, on every side and at every level, to be dealt with

There are a great number of people who say such things, yes. However when it comes to actually acknowledging fault or blaming people, the general consensus is pretty clearly partisan. It's only on posts that blow up to the point that people from /r/all see it that you notice this sub being even remotely neutral, because it's diluted.

......and you think you're the first person here to say that?

Where do I imply that? Why would I be? There are others in this thread deriding the fact that this place ignores every anti-Trump scandal and conspiracy as hard as possible until they bravely confront it by saying it's fake. I'm not the only person to make this observation.

Yeah, it's called bias. And when some things do turn out fake, those biased Trumpers think "haha yeah that /u/nliausacmmv can eat it!". What I'm getting at though, is that the movement against Trump and believing everything he does is wrong is so much bigger, and is prevalent in almost all media, that it is odd to me that you reserve that much pleasure for the small portion of representation on social media that is biased in his favor. You seem to loathe bias, what other subs do you post in and tell them that you can't wait for them to eat shit?

Yeah I get it, you want to see Trump guilty of something. Most people do. That's why you're here, trying to preemptively rub it in trumpster's faces......but why? Don't you have any pot to smoke?

you reserve that much pleasure for the small portion of representation on social media that is biased in his favor

You seem to be missing the point; it's not just because there's a clear bias here. I'll repeat myself: It's not as funny when some place like TD or Conservative does it because they typically don't even pretend, but this place is all about conspiracies, with one glaring exception. Conspiracy is always banging on about being above partisanship and only caring about what's true. That's what makes it funny to me to watch the inevitable deflectiosn.

I really would like to wrap this up, because this is very unpleasant, but I'll kind of repeat myself here in that you're not the first person to say this here, because there is plenty of opposition to Trump in this sub. What there isn't, however, is complete opposition. Perhaps that's why it stands out to you, because almost anywhere else you get almost no objectivity with Trump. The disparity is actually pretty huge if you throw in a good fraction being Trump supporters. I really just dont see the undying majority pro-Trump obviousness that you're describing. But again, it's likely the contrast that results in you being irked. Figured you'd be pleased to see Trump represented in some way on here, because utter bias is annoying to you.

you're not the first person to say this here

Never claimed to be.

because there is plenty of opposition to Trump in this sub

There's some. Plenty is a reach.

I really just dont see the undying majority pro-Trump obviousness that you're describing

You haven't noticed the utter contempt for anyone trying to talk about the Russia story? The fact that this place is still chasing Clinton-shaped shadows? The clockwork regularity with which after every Trump-related scandal this sub floods with low-effort Podesta/Pizzagate/Clinton shitposts?

But again, it's likely the contrast that results in you being irked

Again, I've explicitly pointed out that the reason it's funny to me is that this place decries the partisanship and obliviousness to reality that it so obviously partakes in. It's not as funny when it's just your bog-standard Trump circlejerk because they don't even pretend.

Well this has been great, and I am glad we had this time together.

That right there is classic RussoBot. Look at that post history.

Huh? Calm down

He just made another post I suggest you check it out

So the new info says:

I don't have much else, but there are rumors swirling about the Don himself...hmm...

Also, has anybody noticed the Japanese Prime Minister is looking a little tired lately?

Interesting.

Japanese Prime Minister is looking a little tired

Raaaaciiist! /s

Lmao

So tired he can hardly keep his eyes open!

It's almost as if... as if.. we could blindfold him with dental floss!

Japanese always seem so suspicious...

Rlao

Japanese Prime Minister

Not so honest Abe?

So what exactly could they be trying to say about the Japanese PM? I dont know enough about his affairs or association with foreign countries to speculate anything.

I’d imagine the implication is simply that “he’s losing sleep over something”.

I suppose if someone knew enough about the PM to have intimate knowledge of this stuff, they could speculate as to what he’s losing sleep over, but seeing as this is anonymous post, I’d imagine that this is simply a way to establish his credibility for future leaks. By “calling it” before any detailed information comes out, he positions himself to be credible the next time he makes a prediction.

Is this the same guy as the original? If so, he's already proven his credibility.

This thread goes a bit in depth into the meaning behind what's being said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/panamapapers/comments/7b1rfj/_/dpem97s

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He's is implicated heavily in a part of town known for brothels and gang activity.

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Perhaps because he's on the phone at night? Discussing foreign affairs with entities in other time zones is my guess.

Unless it's a discussion needing to happen immediately, there's always a time to talk during the hours of 7am-8pm no matter where you are on earth.

harakiri incoming

Doesn't matter if trump is implicated in this. His fans are already denying it in every post and every twitter thread.

Yep, no doubt.. there's people out there still defending Hillary too. Deep denial on both sides.

Q has already hinted that stuff on “Don” will be leaked in these.

not sure i trust the bbc, they buried this similar but more important story.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGBBQeJVBFU

could be related too

Not sure? They covered for Saville, put out false stories on Syria and then there is their involvement with David Kelly. Tip of the iceberg.

yeah i was being a bit softly softly.... i damn well don't trust the BBC.

AT ALL!

Manafort, Flynn, Podesta, Donna Brazille, Saudi Arabia, Paradise Link, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders , Soros injecting 18 billion, Mercer going to the background...

Two Leviathans( person, groups or entities), higher then all of the above are fighting after a long time and everything is going to burn to the ground very fast.

And who might these puppet masters be?

Who has the most money?

Two Leviathans( person, groups or entities), higher then all of the above are fighting after a long time

What's your thinking here?

Angels vs Demons

idk the godzilla vs charles barkley suggestion a few comments up also makes a lot of sense

Assassins vs Templars

Alien vs Predator

Godzilla vs Charles Barkley

Peewee vs. Herman

Pawnee v Scranton rather

Spy vs Spy

https://rocketdock.com/images/screenshots/Spy-VS-Spy.png

Evil Morty vs Dumb Rick

Bear vs. Shark

Squidshark ocean vs stop sign sun

Luke vs Vader

Putin v. Bush family

Pineapple on pizza vs no pineapple

Zack Snyder V Joss Whedon

and everything is going to burn to the ground very fast.

Fucking wish. If there is a God

Fucking wish. If there is a God

testify.

There is.

Believe when I see it.

Yeah same

You won't. God would've saved those church goers today if it existed.

Maybe it was all part of his plan. /s

But only on a larger than life timescale.

What does Bernie have to do with all this?

Just that this is much bigger than him.

All I speculate is that he got a payout during the election, backed the fuck off and sponsored Hillary. But I know of nothing more than that.

Can you please not give us your speculations and just use referenced facts? Thanks

What like, his home? Proof that he was cheated out of the nomination yet still sponsored Clinton? He was told he wasn't going to get the nomination and chose to accept donations and continue anyway, spilling no beans?

Due to this, I do speculate he was paid off. Your request for me to never give any speculation and only use referenced facts is absurd. Do you do That? Nobody does that. Its a social media website.

I feel like it's pretty obvious Bernie would back Hillary to avoid splitting Democrats and making it easier for Trump to win. Makes a lot more sense than what you're saying.

Splitting democrats into what?

Into different factions? Doesn't take a fucking genius to figure that out.

Yeah Kirurny, I have no problem telling you that I am not a genius. I just dont understand, still, even with the factions part. Hillary wins and they vote for Hillary again. I've realized how little I know about Bernie Sanders, especially after these events, but I was of the belief that he hated Clinton. He has spoken nothing about any of this, and that still concerns me. So do you mean factions in terms of voting? Please don't get mad that you have to explain something.

Obvious concern troll is obvious. From day one Bernie said that his goal was to avoid a Trump presidency and that he'd back the Democrat candidate, that's why he ran as a D in the primaries instead of Independent in the general. Trying to paint Bernie as a radical just makes you look foolish.

Right so I've no problem understanding Bernie wanted to prevent a Trump presidency, but he knew Hillary was getting the nomination. If it wasn't due to learning that he was to be boxed out, why did he run at all? To transfer his voters to Hillary? Because he absolutely could've won the nomination, and he mustve believed that at some point. But even after it all, crickets. Again it's my speculation, but beyond some tactical ploy to prevent a Trump presidency I see a lack of integrity.

Dude you're being transparent af right now. You went through the trouble of saying all that just to pretend at the end to have concern that Bernie had no integrity. It's the same spiel that's been repeated since Hillary won the primaries.

"why did he run at all?" Are you serious? So we should just accept dynastic presidential candidates forever? Get out.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

Bernie voters and Hillary voters

Bernie backed her because he said that is what he would do, so he did. Bernie conspiracies jesus, talk about grasping for straws.

Probably talking about all of the articles recently of people bringing up the fact the DNC cheated Bernie out of the election again.

Want to know those two entities? Russia and the United States. All this bullshit we see throughout the world is the work of these two quietly warring giants.

The Bushes as well, throw the Crowley bastard in, too.. We need to dissolve most of it. Sidenote: why does our flag have yellow fringe aroubd it?

I got chills reading this!!! Sweet sweet justice incoming!

You must be new here.

To a point, yes. I've lurked for a while now... I've been keeping up with everything though. Just got type happy is all.

I don't get why this is on worldnews, I thought l'eddit hates Leaks now and that every Leaker is a russian puppet?

Psalm 68

Q Clearance warned against false flags. This shooting must have been part of the "accelerated counter-measures" initiated by the corrupt cabal.

source?

why would you trust anything else they said after their very specific predictions already have failed to come true?

Well a couple reasons. 1, there was no guaruntee that everything was bound to happen by today. There was a lot of shit in those posts. 2, a lot of things they said have come true, which is impressive enough.

And overall, if some things they said come true, and some dont, you're proposing to pay no mind to anything they said? Why exactly is that the appropriate response?

a lot of things they said have come true

huh? as far as I knew, literally nothing they've said has come true

Pretty sure someone posted about it in one of my subs, let me see if I can find it.

any update?

i went back over q clearances first post, and nothing they predicted has come true, which includes lots of stuff with specific dates that have already passed.

Guess you misremembered?

Makes sense - throw shade on your enemies while giving red meat to the masses who are hungry for blood.

I'm skeptical of that idea but I won't deny that the timing was just way too perfect.

And what shooting happened when the panama papers got released? Which when the various leaks of the last time occurred? And why no panama, paradise or kitchen papers were released when the shooting in LV happened?

Or is it more a coincidence that with millions of guns in the USA someone at any might want to use it?

Or is it more a coincidence that with millions of guns in the USA someone at any might want to use it?

Hey man, I'm not denying that that's the real cause either. I'm not ruling out anything, but a false flag seems unlikely.

I'm more pissed off and disillusioned with our cable news media than anything. The fact that they chose to ignore everything else and focus on the shooting is bullshit. They do this anytime a mass shooting happens. "Fuck everything else going on in the world, we have to make a profit off other people's death and suffering!"

Well that's how media today works mostly... Death and terror attacks get more publicity, especially when happening in your own Country, because many of the terror attacks happen all the time in the middle east/africa didn't make it to the news if there's not enough death victims.

Well here in germany the paradise papers are very present in the news, of course because 3 of the more prominent involved investigaters are from Germany (NDR, WDR and Süddeutsche).

why the wait?

A user on /r/PanamaPapers called it, including the "Paradise" name.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PanamaPapers/comments/77n6ix/do_not_give_up_more_is_coming/?st=j9n93ja0&sh=ee38c04e

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bad bot

If anything the inside is listening.

People need to understand though that simply having funds in overseas accounts and corporations does NOT necessarily imply any kind of wrongdoing.

It's only wrong if they haven't reported ownership of those funds to the taxman (of whereever they are resident).

So take f.ex. a pro sports person. Some of them travel constantly all over the world to compete in tournaments (like eg. Tennis or Golf), so they are never very long time in their 'home'. So for them it would make sense to e.g. have their 'home' in a place like Monaco where there is no income tax. They can then place their winnings in accounts and investments all over the world including Panama and whereever else they choose. NOTHING wrong or strange about that.

wow, didn't think id actually see someone trying to defend the rich here, but here we are

Not defending 'the rich'. Just pointing out that it's a bit of a witchhunt.

It's called 'principles'.. look it up you should get some.

you clearly show us where you stand

wtf. Speak for your fucking self, dumb fuck. Are you like 14 or something?

Since when is /r/conspiracy a fucking us-against-them rally for the plebs. Gtfo you little shit.

Where is the conspiracy in some tennis player owning assets in some off-shore account? Please enlighten me.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Don't get your panties in an uproar.

In this context the "us vs them" is the 99% vs the 1%. Who do you stand with?

You're just as fucking lame as the other 14yo.

It's never as simple as 1 vs 99. The whole 'Us' vs. 'Them' is a major thing by TPTB to divide and conqour the masses.

Either you're incredibly naiive or you're a goddam shill.

*conquer 😗

How is grouping everyone but the rich into a single category dividing anything? This is an indefensible argument.

If you live in the US you are probably in the 1%. Are you okay with everyone else declaring war on your? Deciding everything you do has to be evil, just by virtue of that categorization?

If the revolution comes, would you rather be given a smidge of empathy, or immediately put up against the wall?

Nope, it's liberty vs. tyranny.

The tyranny of the masses can be just as deadly as that of the elite.

Why would anyone need to use a bank outside of their own home city, let alone country?

At a bare minimum, it is to avoid taxation of some kind, and to worst, to hide it launder income through shell companies or entities. If I am wrong, please enlighten us all.

It's really simple.

First example:

Lets say I live in country A where tax rate is 30%.

I have a corporation in country B where there is 0% tax.

I travel to country C for a month to do some consulting work.

I invoice them from my corporation, and the MONEY STAYS in country B.

Now it is very important to note: I CAN NOT TOUCH THIS MONEY PERSONALLY WITHOUT PAYING TAX.

The second I use any of that money for personal stuff, I have to pay tax on it.

Second example:

I am a pro tennis player. I travel 300 days a year all over the world to be in tournaments.

I was born and raised in country A that has tax rate 30%.

After I go Pro, I move my residence to country B that has 0% tax rate. I have a house there.

I set up a company in country B or any other country I want. This company/account gets all my winnings and sponsership money.

I now use that company as a vehicle to invest in things, real-estate, other companies, etc etc. The company invests all over the world.

If I take money out I don't have to pay tax because I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WITH 0% INCOME TAX.

And why shouldn't I? Since I travel so much why should I keep my residence in country A that has 30% tax? I'm never there anyway!

There a any number of more examples but perhaps you get the drift.

Yes it is called tax avoidance. But there is a big difference between tax-avoidance and tax-evasion. One is illegal, the other is not.

You're in the wrong place here. You're talking too much sense.

If anyone else here was mega-rich would you not consider any of these measures?

People think they'd pay all their taxes like they do now as a since of duty or loyalty to who they used to be. I'm not saying I agree or disagree.

We're not really talking about just tennis players, although your example is very clear and makes some sense.

But sure, I'll just ignore all this other stuff in the papers... All the of the stuff listed here is totally fine: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7az4ok/paradise_papers_leak_reveals_secrets_of_world/dpdxgtj

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If country A is US, you still must declare all income and post taxes on it

Notbif those funds are parked in a offshore corporation. The tradeoff is that as a private individual you are then not allowed to touch that money for personal expenses.

If said corporation is paying for your living expenses (food, shelter, etc), you will have to claim some of it as income

I wrote:

Now it is very important to note: I CAN NOT TOUCH THIS MONEY PERSONALLY WITHOUT PAYING TAX.

So yes you are right, we don't disagree.

A bank in America isn't going to give you a loan to buy a place in another country. It's just not going to happen.

There, I just gifted you 1 of probably 1000 or more perfectly valid non-nefarious reasons to have an account/debit/credit with a bank in another country.

Yeh. All the of the stuff listed here is totally fine: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7az4ok/paradise_papers_leak_reveals_secrets_of_world/dpdxgtj

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I could care less about any of that. And yes, I read through it all. None of it matters. Absolutely nothing in there alleges that any law was broken, and that's what ultimately matters. If I take money that I've already paid taxes on, and send it overseas - it's none of the US' business any more. It's no different with any of these businesses either.

And it fucking boggles the mind how incomprehensibly stupid Progressives sound when they continue to bitch about Russia Russia Russia as if China, Germany, Brazil, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Iran, India and other countries aren't also investing in US Tech/Bank/etc stocks. We're the most stable and technologically advanced Democracy on earth - of course wealthy businessmen are going to want to invest here. Fucking DUH.

People are just searching for reasons to be outraged. If you're doing 65 in a 60 and speed by a cop, and he doesn't turn his lights on and give chase.....do you voluntarily pull your car over, call 911 and tell them to send the officer your way? No? Then you're a fucking hypocrite for complaining about this.

If you don't like the laws - change the laws. I personally don't give a shit what you believe is and isn't "ethical", especially when the opposite of "ethical" in most of these cases is utter stupidity and mismanagement. You have to be a fucking jackass to voluntarily pay 35% tax when you can pay 10% or less.

They absolutely will give you that loan. It's no different than any other loan.

Says who? You? What foreign bank do you work for?

So I'm just going to go to my local CitiBank - the one that EXPLICITLY SAYS the property MUST be located in the United States - and say "No, no, you don't understand. /r/anonxyxmous said you would give me a loan, SO GIVE ME THE LOAN!" and they'll just roll over and do it?

wtf goes through your mind before you make posts like these?

Tax avoidance is legal and everyone does this, this is why people hire tax lawyers so they can minimize what they pay. Doesn't matter if you make $100,000, $1 million, or $1 billion, you want to pay the least tax possible, that's just common sense. I think it's pretty hypocritical to criticize it, plus they are still paying millions more in tax than the average person.

Yeh. All the of the stuff listed here is totally fine: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7az4ok/paradise_papers_leak_reveals_secrets_of_world/dpdxgtj

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I mean yeah. It is, legally.

tax avoidance is not legal

it is however not only your right but obligation too

There are tax loopholes and the rich take advantage of them. There are nefarious ways of hiding money, but most people do it because our legal system allows it. Does that make it okay? FUCK no.

Legally ok, morally not ok. Only one of those actually matters in the real world though.

Expats...

Edggyyyy...

You know they stopped saying 'edgy' a long time ago right? guess not.

Didn't get the memo, but you're still edggyyyy..

So your defense is that maybe all of these people stay outside of their country often enough, that they don't owe taxes? Flimsy.

Now I'm convinced you're actually 14...

At this point it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong if you're going to act like that.

Demography on reddit is totally different so people wont actually get what you are saying , context is everything lets take wilbur ross he could have invested in putins company itself and it would be fine , where he fucked up is not disclosing when he was chosen for the position same goes for kushner .

wtf. Speak for your fucking self, dumb fuck. Are you like 14 or something? Since when is /r/conspiracy a fucking us-against-them rally for the plebs. Gtfo you little shit.

lmao

Removed. Rule 10. 1st Warning.

Oh so you started enforcing rule 10 now? good to know. I just attack back when attacked myself, self-defence and all that.

Have a good day.

That is so not true lmao. They are absolutely correct. We are going to learn who has money where, then learn how much of thay money is unfiled and such. "You clearly show us where you stand" Jesus you sound like a crowd controller.

HES A SHILL FOR THE RICH, KILL HIM

Removed. Rule 4, 6, 10. First warning.

Ah, shouldve put that in quotations.

Except when the people mentioned in the leak are literally Cabinet Secretaries in the US government who did not disclose these ties. Perjury it is.

Yes for sure, IF they did not disclose it to the taxman, then perfectly fine to get outed.

However, what about all the ones that did disclose those holdings? Do they deserve to get their private dealings plastered all over the internet?

It seems like most of what is being reported is stuff like Bono having an investment in a luthuanian shopping center. Really? Who cares?

"Pop singer and social justice activist Bono – listed under his full name, Paul Hewson – owned shares in a company registered in Malta that invested in shopping center in Lithuania, company records show."

I'm just a big believer in the right to privacy.

Wilbur Ross did not disclose these dealings to congress.

Fine. So that's 1, out of how many 1000s of people that had their privacy violated?

A lot of these people hiding money from their respective government. For the greater good, I guess. Also, you can't pick and choose what gets released because people will say this is politically motivated.

I dont think they are saying pick and choose what gets released at all. They're saying pick and choose who goes to fucking prison based in who actually broke the law. Pretty reasonable, no?

Of, course People who break the law or perjure themselves should have their day in court.

What an example -- Bono parades around the world pontificating on peace and justice, while at the same time enjoying a lucrative and tax-minimized global offshore financial portfolio.

It's not so simple.

If his business earns money abroad, then why pull the earnings to his personal home country? There is no 'rule' saying you have to you know? So why not keep those earnings whereever, and further invest them. Then he could take those earnings and spend on whatever charities and projects he likes around the world?

I just have a hard time aligning his public persona with what are the usual "smart" capitalist financial structures. It really seems to degrade into "limousine liberalism" pretty quickly.

It's a nice idea to use the tools of capitalist finance to promote social good, but it also seems like a perpetual motion kind of concept. For every dollar earned through globalist capitalism that's spent on some charitable cause, how many dollars of damage were done in earning that money? I don't think you "fix" the damage of global capitalism with charity earned via the means of global capitalism.

If his business earns money abroad, then why pull the earnings to his personal home country? There is no 'rule' saying you have to you know?

I know, but this is where you get into the difference between ethics and legality. I personally question the ethics of individual and corporations who engage in extreme tax mitigation strategies. I think there's a point at which these companies want the benefits of the governments who protect their assets with intellectual property laws, trade agreements and enforce them in their court systems but they don't believe they should submit to the tax systems which support the aspects of government they want.

Sure, there's a separate argument about disagreeing with the government generally and making a point by not submitting to taxation in support of it, but I don't think that's what's motivating these high-wealth individuals.

Not disclosing those ties, yes. He did however work under Bill Clinton handling US-Russia investments. Curious to see how this one pans out.

I always knew it was Hillary's fault.

Ross worked under Bill?

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Ross#Political_activities

More interesting will be to see how Putin forced Trump to nominate him.

In the case of US citizens, they could live anywhere (with nothing owned in US) but they still owe taxes on their income.

My point is that simply having funds offshore does NOT necessarily mean that they didn't pay taxes on that.

That is true

I agree and disagree.

I think this offshoring of money and investments makes rational sense. If I suddenly won the $500 million powerball, I'm sure any good wealth management person would suggest all manner of LLC-based investments, including offshore investments held in tax havens.

Where it bothers me is that it's one more tool available for the plutocracy to remain rich and push the tax burden onto ordinary citizens unable to shelter their own income from both taxation and political scrutiny. It enables the rich to receive the benefits of government protections for themselves and their assets while evading the moral obligation to support these same governments. They in effect become citizens of a meta-nation of wealthy individuals which extracts benefits from national governments while contributing nothing to them.

But in a globalized world, this thing of national income taxes doesn't make so much sense some times.

Imagine you live in country A, and start a business in country B owned by you and your partners who are living in country C and D.

Why not keep that business offshore? (if it otherwise makes sense)

When the business makes profit, then it can pay out to the partners who each pay a different tax rate based on the country they live in.

Makes sense to me.

Makes no sense to be outraged by this sort of setup imo.

The business that operates in country B benefits from that governments' services -- police, fire, necessary regulation, a court/justice system that protects real and intellectual properties, an unemployment insurance system that provides stable labor pools, an educational system that provides a useful labor pool, and so on.

Why shouldn't country B somehow be entitled to tax revenues associated with this business? They are literally providing the organized civilization that makes this business possible.

This is my main problem with the entire offshoring concept -- it's an attempt to gain the benefits of a particular nation's government protections and services without ever paying for them.

The offshore country (B) decides for itself to set a 0% tax rate. It's not that they are not entitled to tax, they decide for themselves that this works in their favour somehow.

In what situation does a country let you run an actual business in their country and not collect or pay any taxes?

Paper companies in tax havens don't count, they collect on that up front in filing fees and by taxing the lawyers allowed to setup the paperwork, who in turn charge the "tax" through their fees.

The only other way you escape local taxes is by bribing the local officials or agreeing to buy materials from the local supplier who happens to be owned by the crooked government's relatives.

What do you mean by 'actual' business?

Why wouldn't a business in a 'tax haven' count? You can run many kinds of business from that, anything from consulting to real-estate to internet businesses. Yes there are fixed filing fees, but they are fixed and not very large.

What do you mean by 'actual' business?

A business that does actual economic activity and is not a sham business, shell corporation or some other non-practicing entity with no real employees, customers or business transactions.

Your original description was:

Imagine you live in country A, and start a business in country B owned by you and your partners who are living in country C and D.

So does the "business in country B" actually do anything in country B, besides file articles of incorporation? My interpretation was that it did actual business transactions, had customers, employees, etc, in country B and not just exist there on paper.

My position would be that wherever it did actual productive business transactions, that country would be entitled to some kind of taxation of that business for the reasons I stated elsewhere because the business consumes real benefits from the market in which it operates.

If you sold widgets in Country E but said "no, it's a country E business, we only pay taxes in country B" and then decided that when some local sold knockoff widgets you wanted to sue, what right would you have to access their court system? You're not a citizen, your business doesn't pay taxes to their government, why should they provide you any protection for your IP?

So let's cut to the chase, because I was quickly deflated when I read that Wilbur Ross didn't even do anything illegal in all this...what's the end game? We can't even prosecute people for tax evasion because for the pigs, it's all fucking legal. How is this supposed to give me hope, it's only reminding me that nothing ever happens to rich people who bankrupt the rest of us and our society, and I'm still called crazy for wanting to just murder them all and wash my hands of this world.

I was quickly deflated when I read that Wilbur Ross didn't even do anything illegal in all this

His lack of disclosure during his Senate confirmation is very illegal.

I thought I read at the end that it wasnt illegal perse, but is instead just revealing that he has conflicts of interest. In fact, I know it makes a quip of blue sky's ahead for navigator with Wilbur Ross at the helm of commerce, implying they aren't going to be losing anything in the disclosure.

Don't expect the GOP owned congress to do anything.

How many of Trump’s chucklefuck cronies have to have their ties to Russia revealed before you’ll finally admit that something is rotten in the state of MAGA?

These fools are consistently being caught in lies about their connections to Russia. Open your eyes.

Right, this is entirely unique to trump.

That's my fucking beef, you opportunistic vultures want him taken out to put your own assholes in. I want you all to burn.

This particular problem is unique to Trump.

Do Dems have their own problems? Sure.

But that does not mean we can deny the fact that Trump is either: A) knee-deep in some treasonous shit
or
B) the single worst judge of character to occupy the Oval Office.

Who was your choice for President?

Clinton. Yours?

You're either too young to realise and just gotten into politics, or you'd know that:

A) knee-deep in some treasonous shit or B) the single worst judge of character to occupy the Oval Office.

Applies to Clinton perfectly.

Removed. Advocating violence.

Does it make it OK that I was advocating my desire to see everything burn down, republic and Democrat alike?

You realize most people here stopped basing their beliefs off of simple "connections" and prefer actual evidence of crimes?

First, that’s not true.

Second, connections are evidence. Circumstantial evidence, but evidence nonetheless.

Third, I’m not saying I know that Trump is personally guilty of collusion— but, if he isn’t, he is a terribly incompetent leader.

Multiple people under your leadership/command don’t attempt to collude with Russia (e.g., Junior’s meeting and Papadouopolis’ contacts) without either your active consent or your ineffable incompetence.

EVIDENCE OF WHAT? Trump was an international businessman. Of course there are connections to people in Russia. This is total insanity.

You are going to be disappointed throughout your life.

Here's how it goes for Trump;

There's no evidence

Don Jr, George Papadopoulos, Paradise Papers

That's not evidence

Here's how it goes for Hillary:

4chan poster said but hillary.

No evidence

Lock her up!

TrumpSet lost

i know how you feel, but hopefully by exposing all this shit the laws will change. hopefully.

We can't even prosecute people for tax evasion because for the pigs,

Your bot is malfunctioning!

Nothing gets a celebrity in jail like good ol' tax evasion.

They also want the conspiracy researchers to be pulled in two different directions. One for the Paradise Papers, and the other investigating this shooting in Texas. It's a nice misdirection.

My guess is that the Paradise story gets little play in the next few weeks while the shooting keeps getting new "evidence" to keep it in the news. Keep everyone nice and traumatized....and distracted.

Sounds like something the kleptocrats could get behind. Distribute a few muddy videos and claim they show a second shooter and you've got a stew.

Who want's to pull you in one direction?

The german newspaper Süddeutsche? Before you start another conspiracy twist here, they are an independent newspaper with it's ownership spread between dozens of people and groups and not under the control of any state or media tycoon. They are one of the best adresses for investigative journalism.

Were they responsible for the Texas shooting? Then what are you talking about?

I'm saying the Texas shooting splinters our attention away from the Paradise Papers. Just like how the focus on Wilber Ross misdirects us from the hundreds of others on the list and how pervasive tax evasion us amongst those that demand the public pay all of their taxes.

Following your logic then the LV shooting was the announcement for the paradise papers or more an epilogue for the panama papers?

You don't believe there is any connection between the timing of the TX shooting and the Paradise Papers/Saudi Purge/Potential Podesta indictments?

Yes i'm pretty sure there isn't any connection.

If you believe there are connections feel free to list them. But please not the fact that the shooting happened the day the papers got released, well because that's no evidence or whatever...

God bless you.

nothing will happen

Not with that attitude it won't

People with that kind of money and lower control the politicians who wrote the laws that make what they are doing perfectly legal. They have teams of lawyers and accountants to make sure of that. If anything more than gossip and babbling comes from this it will be a surprise.

Be surprised.

These papers show Trump’s corruption

Really? But I bet nothing is going to happen if these get released

I don't know man, there is a lot of powerful people trying to get rid off him as it seems unlike with any other politicians or celebs. If they are going to release any of those 13 million files, its going to be about Trump and some other celebs Hollywood is trying to get rid off whenever the deep state needs some distaction.

Shhh... They haven't figured it out yet.

Prove it or gtfo

I'll take some real corruption over that manufactured russian bullshit.

It's actually about that Russian bullshit.

Soooooo...

Oh yeah? What does it say? There's been too many false claims over the last year to keep up with. You can't keep crying wolf and expect people to hold interest.

False claims? Like how trump and co said nobody from the campaign had any contact with Russians during the election?

You have to go to the root here, and understand that there's a very high probability that the entire russia narrative is manufactured by the same people being exposed more with every passing day.

This isn't complicated. You have the DNC and Hillary. There's too many scumbags to name. Bad hombres, as bad as they come.

We know their emails got out. Hacking has never been proven, it's just a theory. And russians doing it, also a theory pushed by people on the DNC pay roll.

Some of the most crucial "evidence" put forth were ip address ranges that were used by countless people, with no way to pinpoint russia.

It's all a sham. Currently nothing has been proven, and I doubt any ever well be.

It's like that CNN ad. You say it's an apple so many times, and people start thinking it's an apple.

God bless you, and may we see some juicy indictments this week.

The intelligence community is on the DNC payroll? Huh, didn't know that. Yeah, indictments for more people in the trump administration.

so instead they're on trumps?

...what?

on whose payroll is the intelligence community?

Nobody? Dude said the DNC made up the Russian shit yet the intelligent community confirms russia fucked around. That's why I asked him if he thought the intelligence community was on the dnc payroll

"the intelligence community" in and of itself is a tricky term to throw around. You're attempting to make it seem like a huge body of people have PROVEN something.

But, back to the DNC funded operation, the intel community was using information provided to them by crowdstrike who was being paid by the DNC.

These are simple facts of the matter. It doesn't matter how many people say nice things about crowdstrike. And again, this is simple stuff.

You don't have to jump through any hoops or put a tin foil hat on to consider that the DNC, a group we're seeing is corrupt beyond repair got exposed. Then they hired a tech firm with anti russian ownership to frame russia for the breach, and they pushed it out to all the media outlets.

Simple stuff. Nothing has been proven. We probably wont' see anything actually proven either.

We're going to see more Trump administration indictments come out of the Mueller investigation. You don't have to believe me - just wait and see.

What's to believe? They're investigating. So far they got a guy for financial crimes dating before the election and another guy for lying to them.

It's enough to satiate your average never Trumper. But anybody capable of critical thinking quickly realizes that neither of those is damning for Trump.

Nothingburger

Where?

shhh. Once they figure it out they will downvote anything related to the papers.

Can you tell me where?.. I seriously haven't read any examples that were illegal yet on anyone's part.

The journalist who called the leaks said donny has some money parked overseas. Also disclaimer: not confirmed yet.

Makes sense though. I'm sure every billionaire in the world is involved in a similar scheme.

Link?

13 million pages, thats gonna take a while to look threw

*files not pages

*through

My favorite revelation: Queen Elizabeth, unsatisfied with the blood money of her official income, invested in a rent-to-own firm to squeeze a few more drops out of her loyal victims.

Is this a joke?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41878305

The connection to rent-to-buy firm BrightHouse began in 2007 when the US company running the fund asked the Duchy to contribute $450,000 to five projects, including the purchase of the two UK High Street retailers.

This included an interest in London-based private equity firm Vision Capital, the company which acquired 100% of BrightHouse and 75% of the owners of Threshers off licence chain.

What's the part that's bad about that?

BrightHouse is a rent-to-own company.

Are those bad? Is everybody in the rent to own business bad? I genuinely don't get it.

I’m reluctant to admit this, but I don’t really understand what she did there. Could somebody please ELI5?

Her Maj's estate has holdings in a mutual fund that has holdings in a rent-two-own business. Think like Rent-A-Center, where you pay 10 payments of $5 for a $30 lamp, but British so it's Pounds.

It's such a non-story, but people looking to be outraged will find it regardless.

Look, they gotta deflect from the elephant in the room somehow.

The elephant in the room is that rich people are dodging their taxes. That seems to include the Queen of England. So it's actually talking about a certain part of the elephant, not avoiding it at all.

And they come take your shit if you don't pay.

But what if you pay them but don't pay another creditor and the bailiffs come to take your shit and they take the rental shit does the rental place somehow get it back?

That gets sorted out in litigation. Assuming, of course, that it's big enough for them to care about. But typically it goes "you can't sell that, we still own that". Although usually they don't just take all your stuff anyway, just the stuff you stopped paying for, unless it's your landlord and then sometimes they do.

Oh ok. It's so interesting to me how that works there (and I believe other countries that copied British government). I always hear people saying not to leave a window cracked or the bailiff will sneak in.

In the UK you can't seize assets that are rented.

"Cant pay we'll take it away" is a popular program which is my source huh

She hasn't done anything.

Just like Pontius Pilate.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41878305

The connection to rent-to-buy firm BrightHouse began in 2007 when the US company running the fund asked the Duchy to contribute $450,000 to five projects, including the purchase of the two UK High Street retailers.

This included an interest in London-based private equity firm Vision Capital, the company which acquired 100% of BrightHouse and 75% of the owners of Threshers off licence chain.

She invested in a fund and these funds invest in many many different companies. You might've done the same without knowing if you invest in funds.

The connection to rent-to-buy firm BrightHouse began in 2007 when the US company running the fund asked the Duchy to contribute $450,000 to five projects, including the purchase of the two UK High Street retailers.

The Duchy (essentially, her company) was specifically asked to participate in this purchase.

The Duchy is the Duchy of Lancaster not her company. The Duchy of Lancaster handles the queen's finances

smh

racist. :(

Is stupid a protected class?

I honestly don't think the Queen is too concerned about investing money at her age. I bet that someone has managed that money for her.

She hired that person or company, and is responsible for the actions taken with her money.

Interesting that she felt a need to shelter it offshore. I guess even royals don't like paying taxes.

I find it kind of funny because she owns all the money in theory and if prosecuted would be prosecuted for disobeying her own laws.

I think it is weird because she can do whatever she wants because she is the divine head of state. I don't think England could do anything to her if she wanted to pay less tax.

I think this is probably the reason the royal family has traditionally not been involved in market investing -- it exposes them to the unseemly moral hazards of public finance, such as winding up owing a percentage of some awful business or being landlord to the same.

Many aristocratic estates went broke for the same reason -- they were really just large farmsteads that evolved out of the feudal system. They were run extremely inefficiently and after a couple of centuries of high living, the fortune was gone, taxes were up and labor costs skyrocketed making the entire operation unprofitable, especially if ag commodity prices collapsed. Lots married rich American heiresses in the late 19th/early 20th centuries for a cash infusion.

If you think about it, had the Royal Family started investing during Victoria's reign in the 1850s it seems like their fortunes would be immeasurably vast -- basically getting in on the ground floor of every major British business empire. But I think they were barred for reasons of propriety from investing. I think now the Royal Family is more or less forced to invest in market investments because their lifestyle isn't financially and politically sustainable strictly on official income provided by the state.

Most of the royal family's assets aren't personally owned by them, they are crown property, and even the ones they own outright (Balmoral Castle, Sandringham House) although private property are probably of such historical value in their own right they are unsalable. If you liquidated the Crown's property it would add up to a huge number, but so much of it is beyond market valuation or derives market valuation based on historical value it's hard to say what it's actually "worth" in terms of currency.

I like how this was posted an hour after the worldnews article thats on the front page saying its already out lol

The Queen!!! 10 million pounds from her private fund went to dodgy companies.

10 million pounds is nothing thougb

Paradise Papers get released amd a few hours later the Texas Shooting happens, hmmm? Also the Church records every sunday and uploads to youtube! Will we ever see the footage? In about 20 minutes there will be a press conference by FBI/Local PD.

Nobody will do any time for it, so who cares?

No one. A very few people even understand anything about these papers. And they're not about to out any effort into learning about them now or ever.

remember there where a anon on pol who said watch put for news on Azerbaijan.. i think its connected to the paradise papers

At the risk of looking like an idiot where are the actual documents? I'd rather read the incriminating ones from the source instead of having any biased media outlet insist something's there when it isn't but I can't find a single link to the dump itself

Nah, instead of actually releasing the documents, they go through establishment journalists. Those guys scrub anything actually incriminating for people the establishment favors. Nothing changes, wash rinse repeat.

Oh boy, looking forward to finding out how either Trump or Hillary is the horrifically corrupt one depending on which establishment journalist I listen to! ^/s

I believe the Independent Journalists Consortium or whoever is responsible for the release of the information is sponsored by the Rockafeller and Carnegie foundations et al.

I wish some random guy on YouTube had released this so we could trust his info

Here's a nice smuggie for you.

Did you get anywhere with actually finding any of the dump?

Whilst I find it "fascinating" that the Mrs Browns Boys cast used offshore tax planning to avoid the UKs top tax rates and are lambasted over the BBC main headline, they hardly went out of their way to scheme and likely just used a creative accounting firm who told them they could pay less tax.

380 journalists, taking a year to comb through files going back seven decades...
How did they keep this a secret??!??

moneys, that's how

Here's a link to a podcast from Reveal News on the Paradise Papers. A Collab between Reveal Journalists and ICIJ. https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/the-paradise-papers/

Go to Cnn.com Ctrl F “Paradise” 0/0 results found

Sounds about right

Therefore the deep state is against what is inside and what is inside is true. So Wilbur Ross does have deep ties to Putin?

CNN has become "the mass shooting channel"

its easy to be the mass shooting channel when there seems to be one every couple of weeks.

The problem is that they will report on it and nothing else for the rest of the day

That's where the ratings are. Do you want hear about how the rich don't pay taxes or the deranged guy who killed 26 people? So far it's been shooting coverage for 10 straight hours.

And this is why we keep electing corrupt assholes. Because our populace is completely uninformed. Cable news is a dog and pony show, where paid surrogates yell at each other.

It's not on Fox either.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/05/news/paradise-papers-trump-twitter-facebook/index.html

"What you need to know about the Paradise Papers"

Oh, goody. I can't wait to be told what I need to know.

Was just pointing out it actually was covered by the msm.

Federal ethics law requires officials to recuse themselves from matters that would have “a direct and predictable” effect on the official’s or a family member’s financial interest. Recusal is also required if the official has a close relationship that might cause a reasonable person to doubt the official’s impartiality.

During his confirmation hearings, Ross sought to reassure senators that he would avoid conflicts of interest between his business holdings and his Cabinet post. “I intend to be quite scrupulous about recusal and any topic where there is the slightest scintilla of doubt,” he said

why does this post only register at 101 instead of 1021?

A few journalists will likely die and NOTHING will come of this.

All we need is 1 journalist to take the risk and release all of the 1.4 TB data publicly. I doubt anything will come out of this like this.

All the news is always crazy EXCEPT THE Mass Corporate Media NEVER talks about Clintons buying the Democratic Party & Rigging an election or investigating bankers.

Well most of the mainstream media is liberal, so why would they report their own parties indiscretions?

It has literally been all over MSM

Um, it's all over the news this week and the spin was it was unethical, but not illegal.

The problem is that it got overshadowed by the Russia scandal, which is also an important story.

I'm really confused. These documents are getting released, and that's great. My biggest concern is, what's going to happen once they're released? It's not like these people are going to punish themselves.

It's not like these people are going to punish themselves.

of course not, and it's not like their slaves will punish them, that's not how slavery works

in short: nothing's gonna happen

That's pretty much what I figured. It'll end up, "Yeah, that happened. So what?"

But you're not a "slave"...why don't you do something instead of posting here

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down

Trust me you're a slave. Just a pampered one.

I sure am, still, not my point

Slaves don't punish the master right?

right!

The French revolution would like a word.

the person you have called, is unavailable at this moment, please try again later

I can respect that

so would the Russian serf rebellions

No but hey the one who leaked them might get bombed or something.

Already happened sort of

Jeeze.. What a fucking world

I always wonder how this is going to end. What is the endgame? We are on track like many scientist and futurist say. We are going to kill ourselves.

This world is too fucked up to make out unscathed

This world is too fucked up to make out unscathed

That's like saying:

Don't take life too serious, you'll never get out alive.

I think every generation wonders about the future of the world at first and then lives their adult life in full comprehension that no matter what their world is going to end (sometime soon) and they will definitely die.

I don't think there is an end-game or grand plot connecting all the dots. There are just a lot of people in the world looking out for their best interests because everyone knows their world is going to end and that no one makes it out unscathed.

There are just a lot of people in the world looking out for their best interests

That brings "survival of the fittest" into context.

there are still some good people here, but looking more and more at what happens around the world, it makes you wonder, are people good, or are they just pretending to be good?

looking out for their own interest is basically labeling everyone selfish. I can agree with that if everyone would just come out and say it, but hiding behind a "World Hunger Foundation" or a "Save the Whales Organization" makes us seems hypocritical when the endgame is just a way for self preservation.

I rather you come out and tell me: "look the reason why we buy oil from Saudi is because they have a lot of it and we can buy it cheap, and in return we give them protection and guns" that's it, be clear at your intentions and I would be fine with it.

But there are so many people that live in this dream world and in lala land that can't comprehend that people are selfish.

I don't think it's the selfishness that people don't understand. It's the exponential levels of power of some to exert it [and for a +1, usually have the ability to influence the media in some way].

It's not going to end, just get really fucked up

The average adult has an 8.5-second attention span. Nothing will happen and only a few smart people will bring it up and they will seem crazy.

I went through a big legal battle with the Feds. I lost or at least agreed to a push. My former DoJ turned defense attorney seemed most interested in teaching me how to protect my assets since winning was not the likely outcome. When I told him I had nothing to protect I was lawyer shopping:)

VOTE.

Yes it works. DO IT.

Aww buddy I wish

It clearly does. It got Trump into office.

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=6X_xB1JJ_Es

You are watching a soap opera. There is no way he could have even ran for office if they didn't have him in their pockets. They want you to believe he is 'your guy' because people with ability would actually do something otherwise, it's pacification. They could have killed and smeared him long before he was elected.

The owners of the federal reserve are the unseen oligarchy of the USA, they have trillions of dollars, we are their slaves, they don't want you to know or think about this. Their goal is white genocide, then total enslavement and mass genocide down to 500 million total population on Earth. Whites and large populations are too difficult to control.

Me too thanks

You had me until white genocide. I upvoted you and everything.

"THE GOVERNMENT IS ONE BIG PUPPET!"

"Yeah man, right on."

"THEY ARE GENOCIDING WHITES!"

"Psh what? That is insane, absurd. Europe and the USA aren't being invaded."

The fallacy of white genocide.

It isn't about you being white. There is no utility in addressing a problem incorrectly.

Biased perception on your part. The people running the world don't hate white people. They hate threats to their own power. If Whites were all poor and most of the world's middle class was Chinese they'd be singing a similar tune about Chinese people.>>

The regime isn't anti-white. It is very much anti-middle class because strong middle class families produce educated potent offspring that can become challengers to the regime. It happens to be the case that most such people in the world are white, so white people may seem to be the target of their actions. That is missing the bigger picture though.

Mass immigration primarily serves to undermine the middle class; it is meant as an economic rather than genetic threat. There is also the added benefit of people generally having in-group preferences and the resulting increase in tension within a society that is easy to exploit for the regime.

Same here. Wtf? Falls on one extreme end of the distracting wedge issue that is race.

Lol what the fuck ever buddy. As if there wasn't a branch of the government that not only opposes abortion but also sex ed and govt funding for birth control. It's almost as if they want people of all races to make as many babies as possible.

More customers.

He didn't win the popular vote.

He still got way too much votes either way

That's not the game they played.

Neither did Bush. Popular vote means literally nothing in the US.

Rigged DNC primary and shit opposition won him that title.

I think we'll all find out soon enough that he was placed in the White House and has a job to do for/with the elite

Im interested in showing up to the polls to vote for no one

Lol okay

And when was the last time you voted in a local election?

...exactly.

I'd be glad to link you the fb status of when I did

My point was that people don't vote locally.

I could also

Right...

If you mean it works in that you get a choice between one corrupted hand picked royal family member or a different corrupted hand picked royal family member, then yea. You're right. It does work.

But voting resulted in this.

Just like that? You think ticking a box every 2 or 4 years will really bring the ultra-wealthy in check? Let alone make them accountable?

Elections and the government as we know it are powerless against the level of wealth that some people have.

Vote locally. Yes, I do.

Here's a list of people who resigned/were fired after the last papers were released.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PanamaPapers/comments/4e7f1n/persons_who_have_resigned_or_been_deposed_as_a/

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Here's a list of people who resigned/were fired after the last papers were released.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PanamaPapers/comments/4e7f1n/persons_who_have_resigned_or_been_deposed_as_a/

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I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Here's a list of people who resigned/were fired after the last papers were released.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PanamaPapers/comments/4e7f1n/persons_who_have_resigned_or_been_deposed_as_a/

While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

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