Yes, it is a power grab to control the flow of information. It is a serious threat, if you value fair and open access to information.

VPN's will keep the information flowing. The government is trying to shut the barn door after the horse has already left the stable.

VPNs run over the internet, they aren't magic. Without net neutrality ISPs could just slow the IP ranges in use by VPNs, not only with incoming connections, but outgoing connections, meaning that if you are trying to get to a slowed site, and they slow the VPNs, accessing through VPNs would potentially be slowed twice.

Agreed. VPNs aren't going to do jack shit and once NN goes, then this whole sub and whoever gives enough of a shit about truth and justice will ultimately be in the dark.

So It’s like going back to the days when everybody thinks that everybody else thinks what the tv says is true? No more voice, we just go back to compliantly listening and nodding approvingly?..that doesn’t sound right. I don’t think we’d let that happen. We’ve heard each other and understand we’re not alone. Anyone who has experienced what that true connectivity feels like will never stop seeking it out. This is what the internet is meant for. They can try to stop it or slow it down, but we will not forget it and stop pursuing it.

I believe they may alter the course of the internet with their meddling and money grubbing, but this mass-connected-mind of information will always adapt and grow just as people do. Yes, these company players and bought politicians absolutely deserve to be shunned and chastised for their attempts at such an obvious power play. But even if their best wishes come true, they will never stop this flow of truth now that it has been discovered. Just the fact that we know exactly what they want and are able to witness and discuss their actions as they are doing them, shows the power of this thing they are attempting to take away.

I believe you may have romanticized a little too much. ISPs can completely block whatever they would like if they don't end up charging massive amounts for access. While this sub is vibrant apart from the shills and we will live on, I don't know anyone in person who shares the same intensity for justice or truth. Most of the people I see don't have a clue about what is going on and most don't care or don't think anything can be done. That is with NN. The flow of information could still continue, but with an incredibly smaller amount of people who are more savvy than the average conspiracy nut like me.

Maybe I am making it seem like dooms day. But we have learned in the past that corporations will take full advantage of whatever wiggle room we give them.

Yes, I do agree. It’s true. They will be able to limit the flow. But now that we’ve tasted it, I’m sure someone out there will figure out a way to keep it going. Someone more savvy than me. I’m thinking subversive web, like the old nabster, bit torrent and Pirate Bay fringe communities. It may be a small corner but it will grow. I just don’t think it would be possible to contain all this now that we’ve touched upon it. It would have to go somewhere. Idealist, I know, but it keeps me going.

The Chinese think they can completely outlaw VPNs soon, and Russia is already trying.

Its not hard from a technical standpoint. It could easily be achieved.

VPNs can be blocked.

You perfectly explained the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules.

The main point is to eliminate content that isn't from mainstream sources.

Bro, you think the North Korean government is better at controlling the minds of their citizenry than the US government is?

The best kind of slave is the kind that does not even realize he is a slave.

Throw that slave a new iphone every year or two and they won't even care about being a slave.

Well you said it will become a North Korea scenario, with regard to information access. As if it already is not worse.

Not really. See, every act passed since 9/11 and likely before has been named in such a way as to lead the masses into believing that said acts are a good thing. Patriot Act? NDAA? ffs, Liberty Act? Net Neutrality? They are all the same.

They posture those words(stuff) in a way that removes more of our freedoms and name them entirely in an polar opposite.

This lets people (masses) believe it is certainly a patriotic, neutral and non-offensive act.

Seriously. This is a roll back of regulation. When is the last time a new reglation either increased freedom or accomplished its stated goal?

The 1996 telecommunications act did increase freedom, whether or not it ultimately accomplished its goal. Something like that is probably what most supporters think net neutrality is intended to represent.

So you don't read the content of anything just make sweeping uneducated judgements based in the name?

If I don't have to pay Google, Facebook and Twitter? Sure,I do not care if it costs more.

What?

What exactly do you think net neutrality is? You seemed to have gotten turned around somewhere

I do read usernames Fucking grow up

Why... why the anger? What if it it said BidenBangsKids? Would you tell him to grow up then?

I'm never angry. 🙂 I do not care what their username is, it is just an indicator to me of where their mind resides. See mine? I am crazy shit. Don't f with me cause I'm K-Rrraaaayyyyyzzzieeee Hahahahahahaaaaa!!!!

How about fuck you too. Fuck people like you who think it is this party or the other party that I pledge my allegiance too. Fuck trump, fuck hilary. Fuck all the corrupt puppets in office. How bout dat?

Hey I'm right there with you. Why do you think I'm posting on r/conspiracy? No need to get all angry. We are on the same, fuck-every-political-party side here.

Stating a fact means I need to grow up? Should we not be allowed to mention that trump has real victims and is epstiens life long best friend?

Or you could just answer the question?

My point, yes I was trolling you because I am bored, is that since nn,I have watched social media(propaganda), google(govt) grow to extraordinary measures. I do not care if nn goes away. Let the providers charge what they want for access to Facebook. I won't have to pay for it any more. I do not want to be included in this fiasco of bullshit anymore.

Good Luck. 🙂

So you are saying that you would have no problem with your ISP blocking every single sure you use to force you to use their alteratives? Because that's the set up here.

You seem to have developed a hatred for freedom of speech because you don't like different opinions. Which is terrifying

See. I have read enough over the past 10+ years to realise that most everything I see, hear and read is in fact a lie. If they want to limit my ability to read their lies, by making me pay to read said lies, do I care? Not really.

So you just decided to live a life of ignorance instead of trying to do your own research? Is it really to much effort to educate yourself on important things?

I am far too busy. The most important thing is my spiritual wellbeing. No one can take that from me. The rest of this stuff is just a charade.

The government giving away the power to regulate the whole internet is actually a government power grab. Makes sense....

In my opinion, Trump is using the FCC to kill the CIA Operation Mockingbird. The FCC can limit and trottle bandwidth to "fake news sites" such as CNN.

But yeah your OP has some merits, it takes a lot of power away from normies and it requires total trust in Trump, which is dangerous.

And trump censoring opinions that disagree with him is a good thing or a bad thing?

If what you are saying is true than this will be the single greatest attack on free speech in the history of the US.

If he uses FCC to kill nazi propaganda, that's a good thing.

If want a leader who will cut off all opinions that disagree with him I hear turkey and Syria have property for sale. Why would you be happy for the censorship on behalf of dear leader? There is nothing more anti-american

Major news outlets are anti american. True story

Jesus never thought this sub would start hating freedom of speech. Yet here we are.

Cultists have taken over this sub

This is a conspiracy sub. Anything goes. I think your preferred room is r/politics.

Anything goes here except questioning the sitting administration it seems

Huh? I'm not? Terrible observation ...

What about the next guy with the same power? You think it's smart to keep expanding the powers of an office like that?

Expand the powers of the deep state/globalist with their puppet MSMs since the time JFK died or trust in Trump. That's a hard one ...

Or what I'm suggesting, which is vote in people that will dismantle those powers, as in congressmen that will take back their powers etc.

I'm going to laugh when NN is repealed, literally nothing happens, and all you ignoramuses who have neither read the original regulations nor the new repeal eat shit.

Noal?

This is spot on. I think it also goes without saying that a majority of impoverished individuals use the internet as a means of educating themselves on politics and the corruption that so often goes hand-in-hand. Some people might call these, "conspiracies." The impoverished tend to be an afterthought for everyone and everything. It's because we're treated so poorly, as if we're lesser, that we have a greater desire to pay attention to politics in the hopes of making positive change for ourselves.

Whereas, from my best observations, a lot of more wealthy individuals seem to care a lot less about politics because it rarely affects them as much. They have the privilege - dare I say - of being blissfully ignorant to the majority of issues and threats that the rest of us face on the daily. They can afford to pay for better internet and access to certain sites, so abolishing Net Neutrality probably isn't a big deal to them in the grand scheme of things. I feel like they're also more likely to only want to access sites like Facebook and YouTube to entertain themselves with things that further this already rampant state of blissful ignorance. As opposed to more politically active sites like Reddit (and subs like this).

Maybe I'm a tad biased, and a hell of a lot more bitter. But this is just the way I see it based on personal observation.

Can someone explain to me why an ISP is a bigger Boogeyman than the FCC? I feel like an outsider thinking the internet is in better hands controlled by private industry, not the FCC has controlled radio and tv. The internet got pretty damn amazing before net neutrality and now a lot of money that could go to innovation goes to compliance instead. That same compliance keeps away competition.

We need to download the internet pronto!!!

I’ve thought this since I first laid my eyes on a net neutrality article.

r/meshnet and /r/darknetplan

This will probably get downvoted...... But please read, as it's all true.

"Net Neutrality" is bullshit.

Principles of Net Neutrality, per Wikipedia article--

1. Internet neutrality: all data should be treated equal. All data is not equal. It comes from different locations, through different networks, with different contracts governing how much money is exchanged. The nightmare scenario that will happen when NN is gone IS ALREADY HERE-- different companies pay different prices for their service. This is the way is was almost from the beginning.

2. Open internet: The idea that the web should be transparent. If you're worried about the web being transparent and open, you should travel back in time and oppose the use of active scripting in webpages (PHP, ASX, etc.), and you should be HORRIFIED by the addition of webasm to HTML5.

3. Dumb Pipe / End-To-End: The idea that the internet should be as "dumb" as possible, passively carrying data, with decisions make on either end of a connection. The internet does not work this way. The internet has never worked this way. The internet CAN NOT work this way. This is the DUMBEST of all the NN ideals. The data must flow. Flow must be controlled. Replacing all the routers in the world with dumb L1 switches is the fastest way to a Die Hard 4 internet apocalypse. Do you remember the early internet? When the backbone was ARPANET? Remember how fucking slow it was...? Slower than a 56k dial-up connection should be? That was a dumb internet. The backbone was provided FOR FREE by the US government (thanks Al Gore!), treating all customers equally, and AOL abused the FUCK out of it.

4. Traffic Shaping: related to #3.... the idea that all data types should be treated equally, and certain traffic types should not be throttled. Another NN doomsday scenario that already exists.... sort of. Comcast (and other cable providers) used to throttle P2P traffic. They denied doing it, but everyone knew they were. Everyone hated (and still hates) the cable internet providers, but DSL was so slow in comparison. Most people didn't have a better choice (and many still don't), but FIOS is fixing this issue.... sort of. Comcast and others seem to have cleaned up their act in some markets, but there are reports of them continuing in places where there isn't a good alternative. ANOTHER doomsday scenario which is already happening.

5. Over-provisioning: The idea that ISPs should sell less bandwidth than they have available. This has never happened. This will never happen. This is a dream. ISPs UNDER-provision, by a ratio of about 18:1 (IIRC).... for every 1mbit of bandwidth they have upstream, they sell 10mbit of speed to their downstream customers.

Why over-provisioning will never happen: Your ISP has an ISP. They pay for their uplink to the internet, witch they resell to you. They will not buy more bandwidth than they absolutely have to.

So, now that I've explained to you how the nightmare of what will happen when Net Neutrality ends is something already happening..... Lets discuss how this bullshit all started.

The Net Neutrality fight began with Netflix and Comcast. Which one of these 2 companies was being the asshole? I think you'll be surprised!

So, Netflix is pretty popular, but their business model has 2 major problems-- you need to pay metric-fuck-tons of money to hollywood and other content producers, and you need to pay imperial-fuck-tons in bandwidth costs to get your content to subscribers.

That's right, there's ISPs on the other side of them interwebs, charging money. These ISPs are called Content Distribution Networks, or CDNs. Netflix has multiple CDNs they pay money to. Unlike our consumer ISPs, which only charge based on bandwidth tiers, CDNs charge 2 ways-- bandwidth, and carried data.

As Netflix started to really catch on, they needed to increase bandwidth to keep up, and were accruing higher and higher data charges. To try to solve this problem, they tried to FUCK OVER their CDNs, and get direct links to ISPs.

Someone at Netflix calls someone at Comcast and says, "Hey, i noticed we both have switches in a meet-up in [location], how about we both save some money and peer up?"

Peering agreements are when any 2 entities established an unmetered ("free") link between their networks. This is commonly done between 2nd tier providers (CDNs and your ISPs ISP), and between 3rd tier providers (backbone).

Comcast agreed, and I assume they split the cost of 2 new SPF modules and paying a rack monkey to run an optical cable 3 feet.

This worked great for both, as it saved Comcast a little money, and Netflix a LOT of money.

So, some time later, someone at Netflix called someone at Comcast again. "Hey this peering agreement is working great! How about we add another pipe?" Comcast says "We haven't come close to filling the 100mbit we have in your direction (since the majority of the traffic is you streaming moivies to our customers, and our data is just TCP overhead). We don't need another pipe. If you want more bandwidth, you can pay me." "WHAT WHAT WHAT?! YOU WANT US TO PAY FOR INTERNETS?!?! ARE YOU MAD, SIR?! THE PEOPLE SHALL KNOW OF THIS!!!1"

Yep. That's what it's all about. Netflix wants free bandwidth. And all those other companies who support NN... Google, Facebook, Reddit, *Amazon.... I wonder why they support NN. Maybe they have EXTREME fucking bandwidth requirements too...?

You are absolutely correct on every point. I will add that Google, like Netflix already has its on path "fast path" on the core of the network.

This is great that this is own a conspiracy page. The greatest corporate propaganda success in history may be how the big three (Google, Facebook and Netflix) used social media to absolutely convince millions of people that Net Neutrality was about the little guys and start-ups.

They are so in lock step now they think we are paid trolls. Some have limited knowledge of the networks but few actually understand the degree that to which the "big three eaters of bandwidth" effect the network.

The mega-corporations (mega profitable) Google, Netflix and Facebook consume over 65% of bandwidth at peak traffic.

I think the ISP's spend tons of time and money concentrate on how to deliver the content from these 3 content providers that they look as the 100,000 other content providers as just along for the ride.

The law will change but this job has been done so well the opinions never will.

Herp derp. Your news sources and your mind are failing you. I too can copy and paste ignorant commentary on net neutrality with zero understanding of the nuances of the underlying issues.

Fact: Net-neutrality is not a scary thing cooked up by "libruls" to take away your internet guns. It is just a dumb name for how the commercial internet has literally always worked.

The protections put in place by the last administration were an attempt to keep the internet open and to stop ISPs from being able to throttle or block access to competitors or just any content they do not like. It is not a communist plot to censor the internet or whatever bullshit you are trying to push. Quite the opposite. It is consumer protection for the people from unscrupulous business practices. Jesus Christ. The level of FUD by anti net-neutrality folks is mind-numbing.

I didnt copy anything, i wrote thst wall of text. I didnt base my analysis on news sources, but on knowledge.

Net neutrality is not how the internet works, and as i stated, it can not work thay way.

You think the internet is a single public network. Wrong. The internets is a collection of private networks that have agreements on how they intervonnect.

The internet , it could be a perfect tool for us all, but due to that fact it is now becomming a synonim for;

Controll and monitor everything concerning you and built a model that is used to influence you on many levels.

And if you add "off things" and AI, you will see an Orwellian reality being constructed that will influence you on all levels.

This is happening while people are being kept distracted, in misery and seperated from each other and "reality" and are overfed with many problems and an overall negative narrative.

I honestly couldn't find the "United States" on a map.

You might be one of our "reeeel 'muricans."

All Americans are north Americans, but not all north Americans are American. Figure it out. And what a strange comment anyways.

"State" is a synonym for "country". No one else calls sub-divisions of their country states.

If you want to be pedantic, you should complain that its not called "The Federalist Union of North American Countries". TFUNAC.

Worst. Deflection. Ever.

Net Neutrality has only existed since 2015. Ask yourself was the fear mongering used today to justify keeping NN an actual big enough problem pre-2015 to justify handing over control of the internet to Trump's appointed FCC chief? Was the internet divided up in different pay packages? After the public blow back from the internet throttling did it continue to be a problem?

If the answer is no, which it is, then how do you further justify handing over control of the internet to a presidential appointee?

It's existed since 1996, 2015 was just the FCC reclassifying ISPs as common carriers because the previous rules were overturned in a court ruling.

And how do you justify the need for Trump's appointed FCC chief to control the internet?

How is he controlling the internet? The point is to prevent ISPs from discriminating against content. Don't pretend that ISPs are some kind of libertarian force, they are right there with the neocons and they will censor anything that goes against the narrative.

NN will kill the sites that helped Trump win and NN's inevitable death will fuck him over in 2020.

Please provide a source proving the ISPs were censoring anything before NN.

How will NN kill websites that helped Trump and why would you want sites censored?

Classifying the internet as a common carrier gives the FCC the power to create, interpret, and enforce its regulations upon the common carrier (the internet). You should know that kind of thing before pushing for government controlled internet.

Verizon blocked 4chan for a few days knce before they were made to reverse that. They could ban sites that go against their interests after NN dies.

You're right, but I'd rather delay inevitable censorship than make it come sooner. I wish we could get rid of all the local monopolies the ISPs have but that's near impossible.

ATT blocked Skype on iPhones. Telcoms blocked MagicJack voip ...

Please provide a source proving the ISPs were censoring anything before NN.

Here are some examples of the shady, anti-consumer shit the ISPs were trying to pull before net neutrality in 2015.

From a previous post by /u/Skrattybones:

2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.

2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.

2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones.

2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except youtube. (edit: they actually sued the FCC over this)

Most of them had more to do with the software of the operating system of a cell phone than the actual ISP.

And?

ISPs blocking access to or slowing down content from anywhere is what the net neutrality protections prevent. Regardless of what software is used to access it.

You are wasting your time. There is an real life actual conspiracy in this sub. Many of the users here are in fact incapable of putting on their own pants. /u/yellowsnow2 is one of these shadowy users who let (((them))) pull up their pants. Its sad to see this sub fall so low these days.

I'm saying that in many of the cases listed it was the SOFTWARE blocking stff and not the ISP.

In reality there have been only one or 2 instances of ISPs doing anything wrong. Not enough to justify handing control of the internet to the government.

When was the last time you put on your own pants?

I seem to be the only one who puts on my own pants here. Everyone else is part of the hive mind (((Soros))) movement to to keep government controlled internet based on made up fear mongering.

Do you have any proof you put on your own pants? 1080p 60fps video (not a sequence of images) with multiple angles to facilitate a 3D reconstruction would be acceptable.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/soros-ford-foundation-shovel-196-million-to-net-neutrality-groups-staff-to-white-house/article/2560702

https://medium.com/@JackPosobiec/george-soros-and-google-lobbyists-planted-john-oliver-net-neutrality-campaign-c8d6668db12e

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/13/net-neutrality-debate-gets-unlikely-supporters-rus/

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-26/inconvenient-truth-behind-net-neutrality-movement

I'm not concerned about net neutrality. I am focusing on the real conspiracies. Where is the proof that you put on your pants?

He was appointed before Trump too I believe .

Clearly, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'll explain why net neutrality laws allow the FCC to stop ISPs from blocking or slowing access to certain content (like they did before 2015) and why the FCC could no longer stop that if net neutrality laws are removed.

Up until 2014 the FCC could stop the ISPs from doing shady shit. In 2014 the DC Circuit court ruled that the FCC had no authority over internet providers as ISPs were not "common carriers"

In 2015 the FCC classified ISPs as common carriers which subjects them to Title II of the Communications Act of 1934 and allows the FCC to enforce net neutrality. If that classification goes away then it falls back to the ruling of the Court and the FCC will have no power to stop this sort of stuff like they could before.

Do you get it now? Do you understand why the anti net neutrality propaganda you're spreading is completely baseless? Can you see how your argument completely falls apart when faced with any evidence at all?

Net neutrality is a misnomer. It's actually about having government control over content. The internet was a wild west situation where information was truly free before. But this allows porn, gambling and politically subversive sites to have a platform. In a free society we can't tolerate actual freedom. By implementing net neutrality they allow all "legal content". Which means suppression of the rest. All the government has to do is declare something unlawful and presto, it's gone.

Not accurate ...

Sir, you are being fined one credit for violating the Internet Morality Act. Your Internet access privileges are being terminated for three (3) hours so you can reflect on your life choices.

But, but, the internet is neutral. Oh, I see. Neutrality means you have to keep your politics neutral. Too far and you go over it line.

Sir, arguing with the Rulers and Authorities is not allowed. Your Internet access privileges are being terminated for three (3) hours so you can reflect on your life choices.

My point, yes I was trolling you because I am bored, is that since nn,I have watched social media(propaganda), google(govt) grow to extraordinary measures. I do not care if nn goes away. Let the providers charge what they want for access to Facebook. I won't have to pay for it any more. I do not want to be included in this fiasco of bullshit anymore.

Good Luck. 🙂

I'm not concerned about net neutrality. I am focusing on the real conspiracies. Where is the proof that you put on your pants?