Wow. Deep.

the only part of this i support is that it might get people to stop signing up to fight their wars for them.

if they want all these wars so bad they can fight them themselves.

I agree with the sentiment but I would rather not see them suffer. They were already duped into Iraq, and it's a shame to watch the government fail them again.

We were all duped into Iraq...WMD and all that...And then duped into Libya. And then duped into...spin the wheel!

Pretty much. It's been this way for far too long.

"Come on Iran. No Whammy, No Whammy!"

The thing with the wmd is it was a plausible reason. We know Iraq had wmd's. They used chemical weapons on the Kurds in the 80s.

They didn't suddenly get rid of them no matter what news source you see saying that. We actually found one of their bunkers that was loaded with chemical munitions. The issue that no one would have really been able to know is that the weapons were degraded beyond their ability to he used effectively. We thought so little of what we found we left it unsecured for months before putting some bodies on it.

Iran also gave insurgents chemical weapons. My unit found caches that contained at least 3 chemical tipped artillery rounds 5 or 6 times in 06.

But we should have never used the word of one dude as justification for going to war. Especially a dude known to intelligence agencies to give misleading or outright false information.

Who manufactured those chemical weapons? Genuinely curious.

Yeah but I remember precisely when the Newsweek article broke and nukes were mentioned. Like, a lot. They even had illustrations of how they had the ability to arm ICBM-like missiles and load them onto launching rigs to make them mobile, etc., ad nauseam.

Not me.

Can you see the fnords yet?

All my life

Oh, you poor thing.

Nothing like invading a country to reclaim the WMDs you gave a country only to find they sold them off long ago.

and before that it was veitnam, and before that korea, wwII and WWI (and a half a dozen other conflicts in between)

the peace movements been derailed twice now, first with the hippies, then with OWS.

we as a society are failing them, we can't just blame government when we are the ones electing them and putting them in to power.

for me this is the silver lining of trump, hes making people actually pay attention to politics, he is playing the part of a boogeyman.

I think you are incorrect to class WW1 and WW2 in which the NATO colonial wars of aggression.

WW1 maybe, WW2 was all part of the plan.

Mandatory 2 year service required to be eligible to run for congress. Done.

thats the thing, almost no one whos serves wants to send troops in to that shit. well except McCain, and frankly brain cancer could not happen to a better person.

Don't forget Graham. He's an embarrassment to South Carolina.

I was not aware of his military service!

He’d look so cute in a little sailor suit...

You've obviously never had cancer. I've survived cancer and I would not wish that on my worst enemy.

I think he's nailed it on the head. Re-read what he said.

both /u/BankaiSam and i are reading it as mccain is a great person to get cancer because he wants to send more people to war, despite having experience with it's horrors himself.

No “couldn’t happen to a nicer person” in this kind of context is a common saying not to say “I’m glad he got cancer” but to say “protocol dictates that I pretend to feel bad for him but I don’t because he’s a cunt”

Which is exactly what I'm saying.

Nah man there’s a fundamental difference between “I’m happy he’s sick” and “I’m not sorry he’s sick”

true. neither of those are what he said though

Well, I would.

well it is McCain, one of the worst warmongers in the government right now, and frankly i hope he doesnt survive it.

There is almost no chance of him surviving it.

He was up in the air completely displaced from actual Carnage if I recall correctly

till he got captured that is...

That's still a bit different than being a front line door kicker with IEDs being a daily concern.

true, but you would think some one who claims to have been captured and tortured would be against doing it to other people unless he was a total piece of human garbage.

I'm going for the latter.

is your brain too small to realize wars are a part of human life?

That's an iteresting idea.

A government by the military. Sounds like a great idea.

If the state controls the military, what is the difference between military and state?

There's a difference between state controlling military and military controlling state - you must be able to see that clearly, right?

Yeh it's the difference between what the Constitution prescribes and the past 50 or so years.

Citizens should control the State that controls the Military. I want our government to be as far away from military control as possible.

Should*

Yeah. I'm a wishful thinker.

Yeh. Me too.

yes that would be great, because the average people are so much smarter... lol

I would love to see some tests on how smart the average military person is.

Thats why I'm a big fan of Tulsi Gabbard. Most people with military experience actually understand the true cost of war, and the attrocities it leads to

See: gen kelly gen mcmasters gen mattis etc

/u/dghdgdgp you missed where /u/yoLeaveMeAlone said military experience. Not political experience.

Yep, cause military generals don't have military experience

Pretty sure a general has something to do with the military. Hm

Generals are know as much about the military as the CEO of Walmart knows about ringing customers up at a store. Yes they both are part of the military but generals view thinks from the 100 mile up view.

CEO of Walmart didn't work his way up from the bottom position to the top. Generals do

Generals do not work their way from the bottom to the top. Generals are selected and groomed form early in their career. Helmuth Von Moltke said"No battle plan survives contact with the enemy". You can plan and plan but once combat start training is what wins.

Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Teddy Roosevelt to name a few in the past

Tammy duckworth is pretty awesome as well. She had that viral video where she just wrecked some dude misusing veterans disability pay in a congressional hearing.

On the flip side that requires all politicians to have been ok with fighting a war overseas in the first place. Should the congress really be filled with people who thought signing up to go fight people in Iraq was a good or moral idea?

There are many veterans who come out of service anti-war, having changed their perspective. But there are also many (I would bet even more) who don't. I know tons of families where all the men join the military, generation after generation.

I know most people join the military with good intentions and I don't disrespect anyone who does join, despite our different outlooks, but I think it is a really bad idea to stop people who already had an anti-war, anti-imperialism outlook who didn't join the military because they thought it was wrong from entering congress

Im really kind of opposed to mandatory anything.

except term limits

I oppose those too. I would rather have a less game-able voting system.

Service guarantees citizenship! I'm doing my part :)

Honest question here since I don't know anything about it - if you immigrate to the US and enlist in the military, you automatically become a US citizen?

What if you "illegally" immigrate?

All this talk about having to enlist to go in politics, made me think about my favorite movie. Starship Troopers :) I can't answer your question, because I don't know. I am not an US citizen.

It's not automatic but it can "expedite the process."

https://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-through-military-service-fact-sheet

In that same kind of spirit, all police officers, lawyers and judges should have to be incarcerated for at least 3 months.

This could give them some insight as to what they are doing to others.

Great then we could be a military dictatorship! That's a sure-fire recipe for success!

Or...we could do what the founding fathers intended, which was to have civilian control of the military. You know...like it's spelled out on the US Department of Defense's website?

http://archive.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45870

Or...you know, like, the Constitution? Or the National Security Act, or really any document referring to the Founding Fathers' vision for a civilian-controlled military. Come on, man.

what if their kids had to enlist instead?

I don't like any idea that conflates public service in one of our executive, legislative or judicial branches with service in one of the divisions of our armed forces. And I think in terms of the precepts of the Constitution and its framers, none of them would either. I see where you're going, but there are other measures to be taken that do not lead us to a military dictatorship.

What do you say about John McCain and bff from SC always willing to vote for the next war that’s in vogue?

Lol, your trust in authority figures with guns is pathetic.

Hey, I've known plenty of medics who like hurting other people.

Not sure how it is in the US but Australian ADF members get paid like triple, tax free when on tour. It incentivises/encouraging war. Most guys want to go because after a tour they come back with 50 or 60k in the bank.

here in the US we have Veteran discounts in stores, and maybe some online !, 5% to 15% taken off purchase prices.

Sounds like a good deal.

As an Iraq vet.

We get family separation about 250 a month if married or have children. We also get our income tax free. My deployment was from June 2006 to June 2007. I got loads back from the government in my tax return as well. I only paid taxes for half the year each year so I ended up with about 4500 each tax return and only paid a total of about 1500 each year in taxes.

And yes it was nice coming back with about 10k in the bank even with a wife and kid.

We also get our income tax free

Some states will still tax you. Oregon being one.

What the fuck? How can you get taxed in 1 state, but not the other?? It doesn't matter what state you are coming from, you are still fighting in the same army for the same war

Some states don't have income tax. Oregon does and they want their 9%

I'm not sure if this is new, but service members do get imminent danger pay for being deployed to a high conflict area or if they take fire. As well as the other perks that the other commenter told you. Maybe that wasn't a thing when he was in? I know my friends received it on deployments from 2014 onward.

If everyone got health benefits and pension, they wouldn't have to sign up for war for them either...

and if it werent for war a lot of them wouldnt need them. risk PTSD for a chance to get those wonderful VA benefits that rarely seem to work out, and a pension that might not even exist if the government keeps up this war spending.

They won’t. Because Republicans keep trying to increase the cost of health insurance and college prices keep rising. A practical route around this is to join the military. Most people wouldn’t join the military if we had low cost colleges and universal healthcare.

Doesn't work. People seem to always sign up for wars :(

We saw years of anti-Vietnam war movies in the 80s. After that, I thought nobody would sigh up for military service right?

I was stunned when Iraq happened in 2005. Then I realized... oh ya... these kids never saw those movies from before they were born.

Weirdest shit I've seen is anti-establishment crust punks sign up to serve their country. Initial reaction is "what the hell is going on in your brain?"

I would pay really good money to see Theresa May fight Donald Trump.

When people stop signing up, the will simply force them to fight. Conscription is a thing, and the powers that be will not hesitate to use it when forced.

do you really think they could enforce that today? i mean they could barely pull it off back in vietnam and people actually trusted government back then.

i think a forced draft would lead to a collapse in government faster than anything else right now.

And it is all getting privatized. A certain Kissinger quote comes to mind.

For the unfamiliar:

Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.

Almost certainly fake fyi

https://www.quora.com/Did-Henry-Kissinger-really-call-American-soldiers-dumb-stupid-animals-to-be-used-as-pawns-of-foreign-policy

Both of those admit it's only an allegation and there's no record of it.

They both say neither man denied the allegation either. Yes I read them.

While unproven, there are other equally shocking lines from Kissinger that would lead one to believe there is no reason to doubt the statement. If you'd like I can provide more quotes, but they're easy enough to find if you prefer to look yourself.

They both say neither man denied the allegation either.

You can't spread quotes around with no proof they said it and defend it as "well he never denied it." It's nobody's duty to hunt around the internet for fake quotes and then refute them publicly. Maybe find a case of someone asking him if he said it, and him refusing to confirm or deny, then I'd listen.

While unproven, there are other equally shocking lines from Kissinger that would lead one to believe there is no reason to doubt the statement. If you'd like I can provide more quotes, but they're easy enough to find if you prefer to look yourself.

Kissinger is more eloquent than that. I can imagine him saying cynical and cruel things about military men, but "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." just sounds like a parody of Kissinger's public persona put into words by someone who is extremely inarticulate compared to him.

Check out "The Final Days" by Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein if you don't believe me. Save your criticisms of critical thinking for after you consider a view other than your own preconceived notions.

And yes, Kissinger, while having a propensity for eloquence, often spoke quite coldly and plainly. Would you like me to find other instances of his lack of compassion since you seem unwilling to do so, or even acknowledge the possibility?

Check out "The Final Days" by Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein if you don't believe me.

Now you're just repeating the sources of the allegations. It's hearsay.

And yes, Kissinger, while having a propensity for eloquence, often spoke quite coldly and plainly.

Coldly has nothing to do with eloquence, nor does plainness. Eloquence isn't about using fancy words or sweeping metaphors, it's about cadence and brevity.

Would you like me to find other instances of his lack of compassion since you seem unwilling to do so, or even acknowledge the possibility?

I never once said he had compassion. I spoke of his manner of speaking. I never once questioned Kissinger might think this way, but his style of speaking is another matter.

What I'm hearing is that I should doubt sources because you find the allegations to be personally incredulous based on language use. I've provided sources but you can't refute the point without resorting to a qualitative argument based on personal feelings. I understand where you're coming from, but I am equally skeptical of your take on this.

Shhh, you're just illuminating your ignorance.

Was he wrong? Who cares for the death of a barbarian.

This is assuming all soldiers are barbarians

I come from such a military family, they were in the air force or marines since WWI on my dad's side. They all think the iraq war wasn't faught hard enough, we should have just nuked them like we did in Japan to stop the terrorists from attacking America again (funny how the US didn't suffer a single attack since Pearl Harbor, funny how 9/11 was called the next Pearl Harbor and we didn't suffer a single attack since then, and the countries we invade want to establish their own banks). I'm not being hyperbolic either, my dad probably secretly jacks off to thoughts of George Bush beheading Osama so I admit I'm biased.

Then again you can't seriously tell me they don't know what the military is about just because they are brainwashed at a young age. It's a death cult obsessed with murder and destruction and the vets join for benefits, benefits that = $$$$. Blood can be worth it's weight in gold. These people deserve the karma they receive.

just because your family members are dumb, doesn't mean everyone in the military is dumb...

I understand that I have a bias but the people who join the military understand that they can be commanded to kill a target that they do not know. I'm not going to argue under the supposition that they were just good boys who didn't know what they were singing up for.

You want to hear the gayest shit in the world? When I was 11 and played Medal of Honor Allied Assualt on the PS2, and half way through the game during a mission in the bombed out city I started crying because I couldn't understand how this could be based in reality. I still played and beat the game because it was fun and videogames doesn't real but every image and story in media and in the stories told by veterans is essentially a violent conflict where one guy kills the other. They never know each other's name.

My point is that to say the military engages in violence and I question the mental facilities of individuals who wish to engage in said violence upon, once again, people that they do not know. Maybe it would be a different story if we weren't historically the invaders in damn near literally every conflict since this nations existence (and don't worry I'm not a buyer of the natives dindu stories of the noble Savage.)

That's my position and I don't like the idea of my taxes going towards individuals whom have no hesitation in wasting literally trillions of dollars on wartime engagements that don't even benefit the nation as a whole and just the shareholders and business owner's of the drug and weapons manufacturer and trafficking companies.

Be careful kid. You might cut yourself with that edge.

Sorry, allow me to weep for the men who signed up to be shipped off over seas and blow up brown people because 'muh commander' told them to, all so they could get free college and benefits.

They had a choice when they decided to join the army.

So fuck them right? Totally fine for the va to be a steaming pile of shit and veterans lacking healthcare after fighting in phony wars. You're a truly compassionate soul.

I haven't seen a doctor in 30 years, I'd be happy with a shit heap.

Have you ever been to a VA clinic? Lmao

I used to work at one.

What’re you trying to say by this comment? Are you really suggesting the VA is efficient and not fucking vets in the ass? Because do I have some stories for you.

Tell me some stories. Now tell me what those stories would be like without a VA and instead you had to pay for private insurance like the rest of us.

So we got a guy whose never stepped foot in a VA telling us how smoothly they operate. Sounds about right.

You say you have. I never said it ran “smoothly” however you define that. Cmon, is this truly the limit of your reasoning? Maybe your stories are nonsense, marred by a cognitive weakness of some sort.

Oh yeah, I bet every person who has issues with the VA is just marred by cognitive weakness of some sort. Everything is fine and dandy according to you.

Get your head out of your ass. If you’re truly this jealous of vets being able to use the VA with little pay out of pocket, maybe you should’ve gotten off your fat ass and enlisted.

You challenge some guy’s claims that the VA is a steaming pile of shit, suggesting he’s never even stepped foot in one, but turns out you’re a dirty civilian who has never even been in VA trying to educate us. Get bent, loser.

Lmao, you’re just a fascist-sounding goon. There’s no need to continue this conversation.

The average age of a United States Marine when I was in was 19. We were propagandized our whole life to believe how honorable it was and war was romanticized. Then they let the snake recruiters into high schools to lie to us about all the benefits and money we would get if we joined. Yeah I made the wrong choice but truly believed it was for the defense of the nation and the right thing to do. Then I got deployed to Iraq and my worldview crumbled before my eyes.

Then I got deployed to Iraq and my worldview crumbled before my eyes.

Can please you expand on that? What made you go from defense of the nation to your world view crumbling?

Sure. I saw his many civilian causalities there were. I realized due to being my teams interpreter and interacting with the Iraqis that they were mostly just like us. Most were good people who just wanted to take care of their families abd be in peace. The average Iraqi wiped their ass with their hands and didn't have internet but knew more about US foreign policy than the average American. That was eye opening. They all knew any hard towards America was due to our support of Israel. Between that and seeing many good young men die or get injured in both sides then just get discarded lime they meant nothing. I also saw how the CIA had its fingers in literally everything. I saw ways we could help the Iraqis and bring an end to conflict but or hands were tied by political affiliations and or higher ups ignoring or ideas. I saw or men get blown up while clearing a supply route of IEDs for no other reason than so Halliburton GE and DuPont convoys could get through unmolested and make more money. I could go on and on.

Also when I got home and was haunted by things I saw and did over there I tried to get help and realized how fucked the VA was and how little anyone actually cared.

Wow man, that's intense.

I guess seeing ways things could be improved that just fall by the wayside because of politics and special interests is what would really do it.

It is still honorable just because you fight for rich men doesn't make it any less honorable. Wars have always been fought by young men for old rich men gains. Even the Vikings raided for the benefit of the jarl. Contrary to what the beta says there is always glory and honor on the battlefield for those that fight well and obey the laws of war

I was almost changed until I saw you got sent to Iraq. If you hadn't seen the signs by that time man, come on. Anytime after Vietnam is just willful ignorance.

What were your parents telling you for those 19 years? You can't lay it all on the recruiters.

Agree for some, but for many it's a choice between than and abject poverty.

How is it justified?

Simply another rich man's trick to continue to rob the poor.

"Taxes are not raised to carry on wars, but that wars are raised to carry on taxes." - Thomas Paine

Yeah I dont see this as a conspiracy. Its pretty darn obvious what they are doing, they're just dumb enough to think we're dumb enough not to notice. But Im pretty sure like 99% of people notice.

The problem is that 99% of people aren't going to speak up at 1% Aren't Enough voices

Its not about how many people notice, it's about how many people want to give up their docile lives and fight for the soldiers/the "common folk" instead of the fuckers in office.

Shit, that sounded socialist af. :|

Shit, that sounded socialist af. :|

wut

Well one the repel of net nutraility happens we wont even get to see what happens

As if we could before

Facebook Google YouTube and twitter are censoring independent news

And noones going to regulate them

Examples?

They're not dumb enough to think you're dumb enough to not notice. They full well know you'll notice. They just know you won't do anything about it.

And they're right!

they know you can't do anything about it. You can evict one bad politician but you can't evict the entire congress. While the general population squabbles among each other over stupid shit the politicians work together to ensure they stay wealthy and only pretend to fight in the public arena. I guarantee Trump is still shaking hands and chatting with the Clintons behind closed doors.

You can see it happening already. Reps are getting made out to look total corrupt and evil while the dems are trying their best to look like saints so they can get re elected next term... and people are buying it so hard I can see how this fucked up two party cycle keeps going. They really are all on the same team regardless of party affiliation and I wish people would see this.

You can do something about it. Vive la révolution!

Senators used abortion to confuse! Super effective!

The conspiracy part is the bullshit they lie about to keep us distracted while they pass exploitative legislation. They make up conspiracy theories... That's the conspiracy.

Have you seen their re-election rates? Who is the real idiot? Many of those combat vets will gladly vote for a guy that calls universal healthcare communism

Well, we weren't really taxed all that much in the US until we fought a very expensive war between ourselves. Hmmmm...

For much of the nations history we had extremely high tariffs because of protectionist politicians

Tariffs mostly affected the upper class business men, and enabled the common man by making local industry more valuable.

When you have too many peasants, you send them off to foreign lands so you can take other peoples' shit.

Mercenaries know what they’re signing up for.

I'm a vet who's main goal was saving lives, not killing them. Don't paint us all with one brush, my man.

Saving the lives of the guys who were out there killing others.

No, just saving as many lives as possible. I am not the one to pass judgement on another.

Fair enough, but people justify their military expeditions in any way they can. I personally think taking on any role in the military-industrial complex is shameful. But what do I know?

You obviously know much more than the teenagers that they prey on at high school, not only with recruiters but movies, video games, sports, pretty much an entire culture designed from the ground up to glorify and idolize veterans. But yeah, fuck those teenagers.

Yea no doubt. They're indeed preying on them and the culture supports any kid's decision to go. Especially since high school gives you no inkling of how to survive on your own once you graduate so the kids see it as an easy opportunity to make money or move out.

How do you reconcile your desire to save lives with your decision to forfeit your free will to an agency of murder?

Pretty easy, my involvement produced a net gain in life and a net reduction in death. You gonna tell me that's bad?

What, were you delivering babies instead of bombs?

No, but I'm not going to disclose my occupation. I hope you understand why.

Opacity. What a loathsome quality.

K.

Basically: lies

No, it basically isn't. You only see it that way because it suits your preconcieved notions. Operations security is a very real thing.

This is going on in every country in the world. But as someone suggested in the comments, imagine if there were 0 people willing to go shoot other people. I doubt that draft would be reinstated but the salary, benefits and pension plan for army personnel would probably get better to attract more people. I’m not a US expert but their “defense” budget is so big that there is probably space for this kind of maneuver.

With the benefits you get you already get much much more pay and benefits than any other job in the us that an 18 year old with no real school or life experience can get. At 20 with 2 years in I was making the equivalent of about 50k a year if you included my housing and medical.

Plus there's always glory to be had on the battlefield.

You get paid $30,000 and you are there full time, with little time off. When you work out the math, you're making like $4.00/hour or something low, and it takes you away from your family for long periods of time and puts you in dangerous conditions. To hell with that.

I’m in the Air Force and I’ve spent most of the last two months on leave, save for a couple weeks. Still getting paid full salary every two weeks lol

But what about all that battlefield glory? Can't put a price on that. Totally worth it.

They would absolutely reinstate the draft. Probably with bipartisan support. Who are you going to vote for to save you?

Sounds about right

Maybe don't go to war?

maybe have healthcare not be a money making scheme for insurance companies?

Maybe don't sign up for the military.

No sympathy whatsoever for the troops.

Don't worry no one's asked any from the beta males

Lol

And the vets get brainwashed into believing only the GOP supports them. And they themselves end up voting against themselves and their interests and needs.

Vets vote gop for one simple reason. Guns. No modern vet thinks either side gives a shit about them. If you bothered to actually talk to people you'd save yourself from looking worfully illinformed

Vets also believe that the Democrats "don't support the troops".

"Hur those dumb people are voting against their own interests."

That old chestnut again? When are you going to realize that everyone thinks everyone else is voting against their own interests? Believing that everyone who has different opinions than you is simply ignorant is a sure sign of intellectual immaturity.

Ahh the old “both sides are bad” rhetoric. Let’s see who gets the tax breaks once this bill gets signed. Then we can talk about all the democrats voting against their own interests.

I didn't say that, although it's true. If you think the GOP or the democrats have your interests in mind, you're a fool.

If all the taxes get cut for all the programs what’s the problem?

So democrats will be making donations to the treasury to make up the difference, right?

Both sides are bad.

With this tax plan my buddy is losing out on a grand in tax refund. He's barely making it as is, the property taxes on long island are very high and he usually deducted them to get into a lower tax bracket. Shot himself in the foot. When people say voting against their own interests just point them to their tax returns. Robbing 50million people of a thousand dollars are giving people that don't need the extra money a few hundred thousand doesn't seem like it's helping his best interest. He still voted Republican. Idk. People like him are the reason everyone should own their own business.

The point is that everyone is "voting against their own interests" in some way.

Lives in Long Island

Bitches about taxes and COL

Youre holding it against him that he wants to live in a nice suburb, close to work with great schools for his kids. Are you serious. This tax plan hurts people that live in blue states that actually work well for their residents without getting fucked by the federal government because rich people want tax breaks on their massive income. Pass through incoming being dropped to 20% is a fuckin joke. That's the biggest give away I've ever seen in my life. That's the biggest give away my FATHER has seen in his life and he gets his entire income from pass through. Even my dad who is standing to gain nearly 200k a year extra from this is flat out shocked. I called him and he's at a loss for words. Depending on how this hits the middle class people who normally spend their tax refunds on non essential large purchases it's going to fuck up the economy big time. How many people do you know suddenly get car repairs, new tv's new everything around tax refund time. The answer is fuckin everyone. Think that's gonna happen if everyone is getting a few grand less?

Be careful when you claim "politicians" get lifelong pensions and health care. Certainly not all politicians do. Even those at the highest levels (congress) must serve in their office for quite some time before they qualify.

No. Congressmen and senators only need to serve one day to qualify for lifelong medical benefits.

Is the same in Bird law?

Not even fucking close. I can't believe you people. Upvoting this shit, and downvoting truth.

No conspiracy here, guys. A conspiracy would mean that the fuckery going on is hidden, nobody is trying to hide how badly the peasants are getting fucked because, the peasants in this case, are too stupid to care. Actually, not only are they too stupid to care, they actually believe that they’re being treated fairly.

Did you take a wrong turn?

It sounds like you've never talked to a veteran in your life

That's not a fair representation of VA benefits.

Congress gets private care paid for by public dollars.

Veterans get actual government run healthcare, known as the VA. Which is why I'm not the least bit interested in government run healthcare for all.

the elite have you for three reasons: Canon fodder, consumer, tax payer.`

We make the rules and decide who must follow, we print the money and decide where it goes, but you, 'the people' are in charge, so if anything bad happens: blame yourselves.

Why not run for office and try to change these things?

Not that easy I'm afraid, anybody who does try to make big changes is typically ignored or shut down.

If enough try, you can't ignore them all. Most just feel defeated already.

Your vote doesn't matter.

That’s kinda the point of government. I wish people would learn this.

(The point of government is for a small clique of connected people - cronyists, politicians, and bankers - to shit on all of us while providing themselves a life of wealth and luxury. It’s basically the mafia with better PR)

I'm glad we're not the only ones privy to this knowledge.

Pay politicians the same rate as enlisted military. Give them a barracks room. Then ship them overseas 6 - 8 months at a time to some shit hole desert. Then let's see how many of these rats want to stay.

I wish my deployment was only 6 or 8 months.

I know it doesn't make up for the time away, but thank you for your service.

The service being...?

Defeating bird law, clearly.

I am assuming military service by the context of the discussion.

This so-called service was done in favor of the US government, not OP's. The thanks strike me as weird in light of this context.

Most people join the service out of a sense of duty to their country without realizing what they are really doing. I spent 15 years in the military and if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now there is no way in hell I could, but at the time I didn't understand and I thought I was doing the right thing as did most of the people that were there with me. I can always appreciate peoples willingness to sacrifice at that level regardless whether I agree with the outcome of that service or not. That is why I thank people for their service. Maybe I am wrong and most people do it because they want to kill people in other countries for no reason and serve their government but that hasn't been my experience with 95% of the military I have come across.

It sucks that you had to go through that.

Live and learn right? I have to live with the choices I've made in life and I can't take back the things I've done. The only thing I can do is move forward and try to help change people's minds about what government actually is and what it is really doing in our names and with our money.

I hope you reconcile what you did with your actual worldview, if you haven't yet. Cheers!

Shouldn't have signed up for a low-density/high-demand career field like bird law! Everyone knows that bird law experts deploy frequently and have a brutal ops tempo.

Romans used to have to serve in the military or public capacity before being eligible for political office. That was in the republican period.

This isnt so much a conspiracy as it is ... reality.

It's a real conspiracy.

They also get wage increases relative to inflation.

And make hefty salaries

But oppose increasing the minimum wage relative to inflation

Nobody's wage should be indexed to inflation. All that does is perpetuate inflation. But yeah, congress overpays itself. Why they are allowed to set their own compensation is beyond me.

Also, congress gets private health care paid for with public dollars. Veterans get true government run health care, which is the VA. Also the reason I'm not the least bit interested in government run healthcare.

Indexed to? No. But starting wages should reflect inflation and raises should reflect social needs.

"Should"

With our fiat currency, inflation will happen regardless of increased minimum wage or not. At least the lower class would be able to live relatively comfortably while the nation's economy tanks.

Exactly. Lowering the minimum wage wont stop inflation.

The min wage used to be double what it is now (relative to the value of the dollar)

And productivity is vastly higher. We’re getting fucked in all the ways.

I think higher productivity would be explained by automation & increasing capital intensity but I could be wrong.

And a more educated workforce, but do either of those mean the productivity increase shouldn’t be reflected in wages?

If workers can’t participate in the gains created by new technologies and automation, we have a serious existential problem that our current economic system is woefully ill equipped to handle.

That's what pisses me off about this round of tax "reform". I will have less money. Now, I'm fine with less money. Hell, I can find a way to go without something here or there. But it ends up going to help someone who doesn't need it. You tell me that you need to raise my taxes so that homeless people can have shelter? Alright. Or raise my taxes so that vets have adequate healthcare? Ok. Or even pay for necessary roadwork? Sure.

But when you cut programs for the homeless, you cut funding for the VA, and you cut funding for roads, then raise my taxes and tell me that some other schmo who is making ten times I'll ever make is going to be making more? I'm not ok with that.

And then I've got some charity calling asking me for money for police? Seriously? I honestly don't give a damn about tax rate if you can make the government function. There are a hundred thousand people in Texas alone without clean drinking water. I don't want to hear about transsexuals going into bathrooms and your aversion to it. I don't want to hear about a tax decrease. I want municipal water supplies that can supply clean water!

Oh, yeah it’s a brazen money grab before they potentially lose power. Corporate tax cuts have never resulted in higher wages. The GOP knows our current economic situation is unsustainable so they’re shifting the baseline further and further in anticipation of the inevitable correction which will be preceded by a deep recession/depression that they will also use to further consolidate wealth) Republican economic policy results in recessions.

Recessions make it hard to raise taxes. Recessions keep interest rates and inflation low. Recessions make it easy to gut and privatize entitlements public services. Recessions that hemorrhage jobs and the security of all of us, while the wealthiest scoop up everything that slipped through our fingers. And of course, the corporations have a responsibility to their shareholders to keep wages as low as the market will bear. So as people become desperate for work (again), they’ll again be more willing to accept shit pay, shit hours, no security, no benefits. Makes me wonder if they do it on purpose, eh?

We’ll shovel money into the military still, of course, which is a giant unaccountable money funnel (to the tune of $6 trillion missing) for defense contractors.

Undoing this mess will take a long ass time, and there may never really be political will to fully do so if the current establishment democrats are any indication.

Remember, Red states rely most on federal funding and Congress doesn’t give a statistically significant fuck about us.

Republicans dont always cause recessions. Idk what fake news that is but reagan was long after ww2 and brought the economy OUT of a recession. (Much better than obama btw)

Obama actually had an AWEFUL recovery

The economy cant handle two different economic styles alternating every 8 years

I agree there MIGHT be a crash (economists disagree with each other) and that the corrupt members of the gop are blatantly helping the rich while hiding behind technicalities (unlike obama. Who transferred wealth to the rich much more underhandedly)

But i blame both parties. If democrats hadnt been the party of no and dedicated to opposing trump even if it hurts america maybe we could have had a bipartisan tax bill. (Although dont kid yourself. Dems are happy the rich get richer too)

Im all for tax cuts. But when we can afford them. When its REALLY a cut. Ita not. Its less money for the poor and more for the rich. And everyone can see it

Did you read the links?

Both parties aren’t the same. Dems aren’t angels by any stretch, but Republicans are far worse on every measure.

Yea and it was wrong in the forat sentence

Republicans arenr perfect. But they are FAR better than dems

In fact red states are much more economically prosperous than blue states

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/red-states-really-are-the-model-of-economic-success/

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/study-red-state-blue-state/

And have more freedom

https://amac.us/americans-are-migrating-to-more-free-republican-states/

In fact under obama we saw rhe largest transfer of wealth from poor to top in history

Corporate tax cuts have never resulted in higher wages.

So true. Corporate taxes are on earnings. Wages are expenses which reduce earnings. If anything they are going to cut expenses while the corporate tax rate is lowest.

Look at another government running healthcare for a better example. And not a propaganda piece from the health industry, a real look into the system and how it works. Most have issues but those issues aren't people dying and going bankrupt over simple medical problems like broken arms. Also I'd note that despite not having socialized medicine, we still collect more tax revenue per person to pay for healthcare than any other nation. We're paying out the ass in taxes for healthcare we also have to pay for at the hospital. The system is corrupt at all levels, private and public.

Those other nations have cheaper costs of care.

Because after ww2 they were able to rebuild and negotiate the prices

The usa cant do that.

The usa doesnt even collect half of what it would cost to do socialized healthcare (it would cost 3 trillion: the entire budget)

I'm not completely sure I understand. Can you explain further?

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/3dounf/eli5_why_is_american_healthcare_so_ridiculously/

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/single-payer-health-care-would-have-an-astonishingly-high-price-tag/2017/06/18/9c70dae6-52d2-11e7-be25-3a519335381c_story.html

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

a government system has no incentives to cut costs and can never be as competitive as multiple private companies competing against each other, this is an economic fact. they also have no incentives to increase quality of services, as they cant lose business to anyone else. an example is my old friend from canada had to wait 8 months for a simple colonoscopy after already previously having colon cancer due to the wait list for his doctor

another consideration, in a lot of these 'free' healthcare places, you are not able to sue for malpractice. malpractice insurance is expensive, for some Drs its over $100k/yr.

but youre right we are paying too much in general

Tell the ambulance I don’t like the brand name and send me a new one.

There's nothing wrong with the VA system that making it for-profit would fix. The VA system is fucked because politicians hate veterans. Veterans know first hand what a pointless shit show war is, and they have to silence us any way they can.

How about instead of any rich fucker making any money off our vets, we elect people who will do their goddamn jobs and get you the care you were promised. The structures are already in place, our govt is just saying "lol no fuck y'all"

The value of money changes, the wage changes. Minimum wage workers are not responsible for inflation. Please.

Don’t forget exemptions from laws that we’d be locked up over (like insider trading)

or fined for... like the PPACA

Or lying to Congress...

No we don't.

The president's wage is much smaller now compared to what it once was. Aol reports that George Washington's salary as $600,000 in today's dollars and Obama's was $400,000. Not all politicians have gotten better perks in all areas.

I'm all for calling the government out, but I actually started doing some digging on this topic with the government getting wage increases relative to inflation, and they haven't received a wage increase from 2009-2015 according to https://www.legistorm.com/member_of_congress_salaries.html

Funnily enough, during every year of the Bush presidency, they did receive wage increases every single year.

Minimum wage doesn't raise the wages of jobs, it just bans all jobs under that hourly wage. That means there would be less jobs and more unemployment.

Right. Because thats historically what happened.

You guys act like this would be the firat time tge minimum wage has been raised

Its been raised more than 8 TIMES since it was created

It used to be triple what it is now and that was the most prosperous time in the economy

I'm just describing how a minimum wage works economically. It's a declaration by the state that there any job below $X is illegal. So in the short term it will reduce the number of jobs.

Yet historically it doesnt work like that

http://www.nelp.org/publication/raise-wages-kill-jobs-no-correlation-minimum-wage-increases-employment-levels/

Is this a top level response that advocates a progressive position?

Last time I was here this place was TD 2.0. What changed?

It also doesnt have 3000 individual members

Listen man, the pigs need the fresh milk and apples to maintain their health, so that they may face the heavy task of governing the farm. They don't even like it, but it's for the greater good, you see.

Rule number one og bring a human. Don't be a soldier unless you're forced.

Watched too much Rambo, and wanted to share freedumds? Well, get ready for a rude awakening

Combat veterans don't deserve shit for their involvement in wars for profit.

That's not up to them. They would be hit with treason/jail if they objected/disobeyed due to disagreeing with the reasons for their orders.

They shouldn't have signed up to begin with knowing their country doesn't fight wars for self defense, it's pretty damn obvious.

I would like proof that all the veterans do is fight for their country to gain profit.

Countries don't profit, corporations and the military industrial complex that drive foreign policy do. In fact taxpayers are screwed big time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhpfNqeZzUE

Oh I didn't realize that countries don't benefit from corporations. That's a new one to me. I wonder how the logic in the belief in that works.

You mean the trickle down effect huh? You also seem to be missing the part where corporations start the wars.. That documentary was mostly about Halliburton, Dick Cheney's company, you know that guy who pushed for war in Iraq. He also happens to have interests in Genie Energy along with Rupert Murdoch and the Rothschilds, a company granted drilling rights by Israel in Syria's Golan Heights a couple of years ago.

Belief in the ridiculous trickle-down effect likely motivated this mess with the new tax changes too

you act like teenage boys have a full and complete understanding of what they're getting into. it's not like they get propaganda shoved down their throats or anything, right? some wars are genuinely fought in defense of a nation, obviously most recent conflicts have not, but young men with good intentions still sacrifice their lives or come home scarred so fucking dickless morons like yourself can shit on them. fuck you.

This ^

Anyone willing to kill people on command without doing a little research first clearly doesn't give a fuck, they are scumbags like you.

ah yes, they're all just lowlife scum. very compassionate of you. we can agree to disagree; you can believe I'm scum and I can believe that you're an absolute idiot with an IQ lower than a bag of rocks.

Dude, we were kids. We clearly didn't realize what we were getting into. After 9/11 it seemed like a legit thing to do. Once were got to Iraq we realized how fucked everything is. But once you're in a Combat zone you can't just leave. In fact I'd you don't follow orders it desert you can legally be hanged it shot so your kind of fucked. There are always two points of view. I thought i was going to rid the world of the Taliban. Never got shipped to Afghanistan but then for deployed to Iraq. It was a shit show. It opened our eyes and killed that blind and naive nationalism most of us kids had.

I might be able to give a pass when it comes to 9/11 and the false Iraq narrative because it was among the first fraudulent wars since the advent of the internet allowing us to verify what the criminals in government were telling us. I don't think there can be any excuses from this point on though, I mean no WMD's went mainstream, everyone has heard the 9/11 "theories" by now, anyone paying attention would know they tried to lie us into Syria multiple times too.

They might not. We shouldn't allow military recruiters into schools. We shouldn't send children to schools that facilitate nationalism and militarism.

Most wars are fought to aggress against a peoples. Most wars are fought on behalf of governments, not on the behalf of the people they rule over.

What's wrong with having no dick? We can have compassion for victims of the state without rewarding them for their ignorance, cowardice or greed.

The government should ackgnowledge their crimes against veterans and offer them reparations.

"dickless" is just a better term for spineless. also, what's wrong with nationalism? protecting your people? putting them first?

Better because phallocentric value systems make more sense than spinocentric belief systems? Ahem-latent sexism-cough.

My people transcend the property claims of despotic capitalists. To say that more simply, my peeps live here and there. There's plenty of reprobates working for and subsisting in nations all over the planet. What's so great about armed borders and centralized societal controls?

no, it's better because I like it better. it's funny to see people get bent out of shape about it. Nationalism is good, because it keeps hegemonic societies with peoples who all have similar beliefs and values protected from having peoples who doctor share those values and belief system from degrading the society.

Doctor?

Maybe your values could use a little degrading if hegemony ranks highly amongst things you'd like to see in your society.

hmm, gotta love those phone keyboards... and ayup I used the wrong word and sounded like a sped. whoops

You probably meant to say homogenous, which is ironic really, because the scientific literature appears to observe a positive correlation between diversity and intelligence.

The corollary to that would be that homogeneity has a postive correlation with stupidity.

when I think of homogeneity, I don't think of it in a racial sense. more of a values set sense. diversity of thoughts and opinions is very important though, as long as the values are fairly similar when it comes to family, valuing life, etc.

I don't understand. Diversity is important so long as it isn't too diverse? Wha?

you can have diverse thoughts while those same people hold the same sets of values... for example, I have about the same value set as my mother, who despises guns while I enjoy guns and support the second amendment. we have the same values; family sticks together, life is sacred, etc. I don't see what's so hard to understand?

We pick and choose what diversity is acceptable and what is not.

in order to uphold value systems...

Or in order to retard their evolution...

Uh, excuse me, but we have a volunteer military in the US.

Too reason I never joined the military: love of free will. Also I don't enjoy being yelled at.

You are intentionally dodging the point.

Could you make it more clear?

Not sure it is necessary. Requests could be misleading to more ammo for further argument.

Misleading is an adjective, not a verb.

Remember when I made the statement or claim that it wasn't? Me neither. Language is meant to be pliable.

So you were using "more" as a verb?

So you do not agree that language is meant to be pliable?

I agreement.

Excellent, that keeps your intentional dodging to a mere count of 2 for our conversation. Is that a record?

You've implied soldiers follow orders so that they don't get charged with treason. You've implied they're unprincipled cowards.

You assumed what that wasn't said anywhere?

Right at the beginning of this stupid, stupid conversation.

Ah, at least you admit you assumed - and that I didn't imply that.

You haven't really said anything else but that.

haven't really

Do they really get "shit on" though? I'm pretty sure a lot of vets receive a good pension and pretty decent discounts on insurance, mortgages, loans, healthcare, and hundreds of other little transactions. I'm not saying their treatment is awesome or couldn't be better but as a self employed person, I think a monthly pension from a previous employer would be pretty neat.

They are just the hired help. They are not the real deal.

Hot button for me.

Congress should:

• get a stipend not a paycheck
• have the same healthcare as everyone else
• have to plan for retirement like everyone else (401K, etc)
• no publicly paid for lifetime health insurance
• no contact with lobbyists
• no 3rd party money changes hands (no quid pro quo)

Serving in Congress is a privilege and if someone wants to do it, they should consider it a public service. Not a get rich scheme.

And kick their sorry asses out after a couple of terms. The longer people serve, the more opportunities for shenanigans.

Vets should get what they need, including quality health care in a timely fashion.

Agreed. So how can this be implemented?

People have to change/shift their ideas for what it means to get involved. Just voting isn’t enough. We have to get people involved from the ground up. Get people volunteering. It has to be a movement. It has to be cool to young people to be involved.

Why does it have to be young people. All people need to get off their asses and get involved.

I think the problem is that politics is a dirty business and most people who get into it are people who don't mind getting dirty.

All people need to be involved; but the young ones are the ones who have the greatest chance at impact because if it becomes “normal” to be super involved it will become what each generation after perceives as something you just DO.

no contact with lobbyists

Honest question.

How would you expect an 88 year old life-long politician Conyers vote on legislation relating to Technology? Healthcare? Banking?

He has ZERO experience in those industries. He probably doesn't know how to work a smartphone or computer.

Politicans aren't magical know-it-alls. Lobbying is actually a necessary part of government. It's the only window for the politicians to become informed about the interworkings of an industry; what effects them, what legislation is preventing their growth, what legislation they may need for protection from bad actors, etc.

It's kind of a life-changing experience if you get to go through this first hand. There was an industry that I knew nothing about other than negative stuff I heard through the media. Then I worked in the industry and gained an insider perspective. Then I realized - You. Do. Not. Know. An. Industry. Until. You. Work. There.

Do you expect Conyers to just sit on Wikipedia all day, and then vote tomorrow and pretend that he is informed?

Lobbying and kickbacks are abusable and need to be controlled the right way. But it's necessary for industry insiders to attempt to inform the government about their position.

I expect doctors, surgeons, health insurance workers, and pharmacists to know the Healthcare Industry.

I don't expect Conyers to know his head from his ass when it comes to how the industry works.

What about this is a conspiracy?

The bar for what qualifies as a conspiracy on this sub is as equally as low as what counts as evidence.

Especially since this sub has become t_d, the Diet Coke version, in a lot of respects.

Not at all, it did a while back but now it's full of leftists. Which isn't a bad thing at all

There's basically 3 major factions in this sub: the true believer conspiracy theorists, the Trump supporters trying to spin, deflect, and downplay just how fucked he is, and the liberals coming here to argue with the first two groups.

Idk about liberals but I see a lot of extreme, far-leftists here. Anarchists and communists and the such. Again, I'm not saying that in a bad way, I think followers of those ideals are very "red pilled" on the reality of our current society so to speak, whether their ideas on how we should change society are the best is another matter, but their eyes are very open to the truth.

Do you know the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory?

This is in fact a conspiracy.

Sorry that this isn't proof of flat Earth lizard people.

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

This is neither a secret plan nor is it unlawful.

Just because something is in plain sight doesn't mean it's not being hidden my friend.

Finally. Since reason on this thread

How is this not a conspiracy? Congress is conspiring to keep themselves secure at the cost of the people they are being paid to serve.

This is a text book conspiracy.

That's not a conspiracy theory. That just means you read the news and have a memory longer than a goldfish.

own fault when join the "rich mans" military ... i so not care for them.

Yep. The US army is strictly voluntary. Don't want to get screwed over by the VA? Don't volunteer to go shoot brown people overseas for reasons that are less than clear.

Or, to be more blunt, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[removed]

Wow, you put a lot of words in my mouth.

That being said, I agree, there's propaganda everywhere. It's disgusting they're in the schools. It also upsets me that they advertise on TV, and that they're all over the NFL.

I would still argue that, despite the propaganda, "don't kill people who did nothing to you" should be fairly common sense. Guess not.

What American says "shite" on?

Or A Russian pretending to be a native English speaker.

War sucks and the only ones who actually support the troops are anti war hippie types.

This isn't a conspiracy as much as a general law among humans. People are self serving and those whose job it is to make the rules are gonna think of themselves first and the idiots who signed up to be a pawn of better man last.

War should be an open vote in congress.

And every person who voted in favour of war is immediately drafted to fight in that war. This would necessitate that no one of infirm age would be allowed to sit in congress, ensuring that the old guard are constantly cycled out.

Not a conspiracy, just a sad fact. :(

If health care and collage were free nobody would sign for the military. That would be a problem for some people. Some very powerful people.

We spend more money on our military than every other country in the world combined, but the pentagon doesn’t have the funds to take care of it’s people.

This only happens in US, blows my mind that how terribly looked after your soldiers are once returned compared to European soldiers, especially because of how revered the military is in America.

Someone give this guy a star!

They automatically get increased benefits and actually would have to vote against the increases to stop them. So they dont even have to vote for increased compensation, they just dont vote against it. so fucked up.

Veterans are cunts

If you want to violently serve your country, don't join the military. Join the local militia.

Neither of them deserve benefits.
Politicians are the talking puppets of the psychopaths in power and military members are the murdering, terrorizing goon squad of the psychopaths in power.
Members of the U.S. military don't serve the U.S.; in fact they critically harm the U.S.
They are the servants of the wealthy psychopaths in power who seek global domination.

Hope much you want to bet that politicians will also get an open internet

That’s not a conspiracy, just facts

No shit. Abolish the fed

You expect the aristocrats to care about the plebes once they have served they're purpose. PERPOSTEROUS!!!!! THE POMPASITY!!!!!!

Veterans have a voice...they vote. We all have the same voice. But when the elite leaders work everything in their might to explain to us that we should revere them for their use of political jargon, college degrees, fancy suits, elegant parties and war chests of cash INSTEAD of revering Veterans for their sacrifice, service, sense of duty, and love of country then they win and we don't hold them accountable.

Hmm...service and sacrifice and love....seems like I've heard of another guy a long time ago that made a name for Himself with those same qualities...oh well, whoever He was I bet the elites and rulers back then didn't like Him very much either.

Gandhi?

Well played.

Poorly thought out leading statement.

No it's not. It just applies to multiple people. Surely if we put our heads together we could come up with multiple others. You know what I was getting at though.

You don't have to be rude just because I made you think about Jesus.

You wanted people to go automatically to Jesus because you're incapable of being direct. I went to Gandhi. I don't want to dumb myself down by putting our heads together. I don't have to do anything. I chose to say that because your statement was poorly thought out, and leading.

I've got no problem being direct. I bring up Jesus all the time to people, knowing they might react like you.

You're right you have to do anything. You can say whatever you like as well. My statement was plenty well thought out and I intended it to be leading...that how I thought it out.

I know not everyone is as jaded and confrontational as you seem to be. In fact, a few people that read my statement might actually go where I was leading them and I trusted that a few of those might actually draw the parallel and see how it story of Jesus isn't so far fetched after all. In fact, the same type of exclusionary elitism exists today. The same type of disdain for men of good character existed then. And maybe just one of them would go pick up a Bible and read it for a few quiet moments.

Yeah, I thought it out real good buddy. And if I'm lucky, someone was led. But not you, you're too smart for me.

Why does it have to be a bible? Yeah, no one's doubting jesus' existence. People doubt that he did magic. Awh, thank you, that's so sweet of you to notice!

Is it just me or have any of you noticed a slight change in the public discourse since the tax bill has moved from the House to the Senate and back again. I can almost here folks sharpening up their guillotines.

This has been known for years ...

I'm almost tempted to say "if you're dumb enough to fall for the propaganda, and lacking in empathy enough to kill people you don't know on someone else's say-so, then you fucking deserve everything you get". Almost tempted to say that. But I won't. Consider it retracted.

This comment did nothing other than show you have no spine to just flat out say something without giving yourself an out.

I can neither confirm nor deny I agree with your statement.

Thank you for proving my point.

You're welcome ;)

(or not)

Wait, what? I’ve never heard any of my friends and family who are combat vets ever complain about getting “shite on.” They complain about some VA bureaucracy, but they have all given me the impression (based on their words and their bank accounts) that they are well taken care of and their mental health care is addressed if they seek it.

From the words of one of my closest relatives: ‘Many guys are just too stubborn to take the time to fill out their paper work. I’ve tried to help some of them who complain the most, but they wouldn’t even take my offer to fill out the papers for them.’

Now, idk if this is true for the majority, but combat vets and rich people are pretty much the most taken care of individuals in our society. I can’t walk an inch into any major city without seeing billboards and advertisements about university research into robotic limbs, ads to donate to WWP, or some other thing about giving to vets.

Well I'm a combat vet and getting help isn't always that easy. PTSD actually prevents people from wanting to seek help. I feel like my mental scars are small potatoes compared to some of the guys in my company that were killed/lost limbs. It took years for me to feel like I deserved help.

I finally went and it's just weird sitting in a room crying to some DR you just met that wasn't there. And you have to reexplain it to the general practitioner, the social psychologist, the psychologist.... It's not very therapeutic, more traumatizing than anything. I'm not going back.

Yeah, staying sick is preferable to going to the VA most of the time. Some people really took to the indoctrination during their service though.

A bad attitude to have. Seek regular therapy through the VA for PTSD and you'll see the same doctor over and over. Make sure to file a claim for compensation.

See, that’s the issue. Are you not being taken care of or do you just not seek the care? How does your psych therapy differ from, say, the psych therapy of someone at your income without the VA?

I feel for you, man, and I hope you get effective help.

That's not a conspiracy though. That's human nature to vote in their own interests. It's the truth behind "democracy".

That's because they are our slave masters and we are their subjects. And well the military and police are their order following dogs. If you do not realize there is no difference between any form of government and serfdom/slavery you are under mind control and the Truth is there. There is nothin new under the sun. Just remember who you are.

It's not a conspiracy if it's a fact

I'm ok with soldiers getting nothing. They don't protect anyone but the oligarchy. They follow illegal orders as a matter of course. Them having sociopathy and homicidal tendencies are desired traits.

I prefer having my money with me, where it can do good, not funneled into the black hole that is the VA.

About the politicians? All of you who support there being a government support such nonsense. Knock of your virtue signaling about how bad politicians are. It's a problem with the very idea of government, and no amount of changing who they are will change that.

And after theyre done doing politics they get jobs on advisary boards.

Thosr advisary jobs are just monthly checks they never go to work

This is inaccurate at best, deceitful at worst. It's not true.

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RL30631.html

They also pass laws that lobbyists pay them to pass, without realizing the working class pays their healthcare and salaries. I think everyone should stop paying taxes to remind them who they work for. We need to exercise our power as 'We The People'.

I think it's far worse than that. I believe returning veterans have their health and lives intentionally destroyed so that they won't be a threat to the power structures. A lot of vets have seen through the bullshit -- it would be very dangerous to (((certain people))) to have thousands of trained killers with a vendetta on the lose.

They also vote to give themselves raises. I think politicians should make whatever the federal minimum wage is hourly. We'll see the minimum go up in a hurry.

If only people would start a lottery for homeless vets, whoever wins we all vote for. Cannot put us in a worse position.

Now is it a conspiracy if it's true?

Yes. Learn the definition

This is not a conspiracy, this is literally how it plays out.

Learn the definition.

con·spir·a·cy

kənˈspirəsē/Submit

noun

a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

What part of what they are doing is secret to you? There is no subterfuge, this is how it is and nobody seems to care enough to enact any sort of change.

Here's a conspiracy for the world of Reddit. The politicians get their full paycheck as a retirement pay after only one term in office, yet they continue to seek reelection. Why don't they just retire?

Democracy is good. "Democracy" isnt

It's almost as if people shouldn't vote for a party rife with monsters without empathy in return for meager tax cuts they'll never see

I think this post is in the wrong sub... this should be /reallife or /Thelifeofaveteran

but ice cream is pretty cool.

It's the way it's always been. Nothing has changed, except Public relations.

Veterans are guys who signed up to help and kill brown people to get these fatcats get more money from their oil buddies.

Really? Every single job in the military involves killing people? I had no idea those guys stationed in Germany, South Korea, and all those other countries were just going around finding brown people to kill.

Killing people/supporting people who kill people. Yes.

Christ, you're narrow minded. I wish my world could be so black and white, it would make things a lot easier.

I wish people like you would stop supporting violence.

See? If I saw like you did, I could just paint everyone with a big broad brush without applying any sort of nuance to my thought processes.

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. If you look at what the US army does and then voluntary sign up for that you are part of the problem.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm calling you stupid for thinking it's that simple. What about the truck drivers that are hauling water or gas to villages that use those things? They're working on gov't contracts, not with the military, but they're completely complicit in everything else the military does, according to you. Fuck off, I'm done with you.

I dont know how to spell it out to you. Would you say starting a job for a factory which makes bacon makes you complicit in killing pigs? I love bacon by the way.

I'm a veteran. I have lifetime free healthcare and a pension. I served for six years

That’s no conspiracy those are facts

Well that's not true. I'm a combat veteran and any service connected disabilities are subject to compensation by the VA. Treatment is free for life, and there are so many social programs in place for veterans that it's retarded. How do I know this? I'm writing this while I shit in the toilet at the VA regional office where I work, with a job I got because my veteran status gave me an edge in the federal hiring process.

That isn't a conspiracy, that is exactly what happens.

There are conspiracies, and then there are realities. This is an unfortunate reality.

I’m a veteran who has lifelong retirement pay and lifelong healthcare tho.

Do your 20. If you want a life of luxury, go to college first. Yes, different career paths have different benefits and outlooks.

Yeah - not a conspiracy- stop voting in Republicans.

My vote is for no combat. Let's quit borrowing money from China to buy oil from the Middle East so we can power tanks in Central Asia.

...yeah. This isn’t a conspiracy. This is basic civics. It sucks, totally, and is unfair given the VA is a hot mess, but it’s not a conspiracy. This is a thing that has been around forever. It’s real. There’s plain evidence of it. There’s no question. It’s just politics?

I've found it funny that the same people that are so against government jobs are so for dumping tons of money into the military, which is essentially a government job.

Then don't join the military. Does it really protect countries? Or do they just create the next generation of terrorists?

PTSD- why intentionally give that terribleness to your own self? It's just dumb. Everyone know it messes with people, which is part of the reason for the high suicide rate of veterans.

Also the military members know what they are signing up for. AKA- they know it's low pay. And the school paid for benefits usually don't actually happen. So if you know the job is shit, why do it?

That's common knowledge not conspiracy.Yes our congress sucks and protects itself from any real prosecution.If you dont go along with the program that's when they charge you for your crimes.

They are better people. That is what we believe. We approve of this, and also have no problem with practically all of them somehow becoming millionaires while in office. Hmmm.

Here's the difference, veterans aren't lazy pieces of shit who need handouts to survive and politicians are. I get by just fine.

Someone give this guy a political office, I have a feeling he'd get some good shit done.

Not interested. I'd make history as the quickest political assassination in history.

"not interested" in political office, that basically makes you the perfect person for the gig. Because those who are interested in holding office are mostly in it for their own gain. Why do you think that in Roman times, all senators and consuls were required to have served?

This can be prevented with re educating voters... Mainly Republicans.

The irony of it is republicans spend money on education!?

That's not even a conspiracy.

You're just saying stuff that happens.

I don't really see how this is a conspiracy, pretty common knowledge.

Combat veterans are treated fairly well in the VA. I have volunteered there and my Dad has worked at three different VA's. Yes, there are tons of scandals, which is bad, but part of that is due to a looking glass being directed towards the VA and not other government agencies, such as the USDA. I have interacted with veterans coming from the shittiest backgrounds living in the shittiest neighborhoods.

At the VA my Dad worked at until recently, we wouldn't be able to get out of the hospital without five people stopping my Dad to shake his hand. Because of this, my Mom didn't want to go into the VA ever because she would have to talk to a bunch of people.

This is no conspiracy, this is how it has always been.

I think most people have a choice whether to get into the army in non-war times, no? Seeing how brutally america carries out drone bombings and oil wars in the middle east and Africa, I for one would never sign up for that shit. I can see how many veterans are permanently scarred in their heads for "having to" carry out some real ill shit that they probably didn't sign up for but likely couldve seen coming. I do sympathize though. I really do. With the innocent victims on american imperialism.

Yet combat veterans heavily lean Republican instead of voting for the party that wants to provide them - and everyone - with healthcare similar to what the politicians enjoy.

This is the real injustice.

Great point.

Maybe combat Vets need to stair aiming their rifles in the opposite direction...

It's almost as if the entire fucking system is rotten to the core.

That's not a conspiracy...It's the truth...

That's not really a conspiracy. That's just how America has worked for the last several hundred years. It's not really a secret.

The sad part is the public is literally so crazy they will buy yellow “I support the troops!” Ribbons made in China while they vote the same assholes back into office...

But 10 cents of that ribbon goes to support the vets!*

^*but the government sending the vets to war won't spend ten cents on shit once they come home

Not really a conspiracy more like just a straight forward fact. It’s not like the politicians are privately conspiring, it’s pretty open

Combat veterans should stop voting Republican.

There's the real conspiricy.... how are vets strongly republican? Only because of gun laws?

Yeah, because they're smart enough to know that some people just can't be trusted, and that everyone needs to be able to defend themselves regardless of the threat. And their opinion is coloured by the fact that every time a leftist gets into power things go tits up.

Haha what?! When a leftist gets power things go tits up? How so? When?

I'm pro gun ownership. Have your guns man, don't take mine. I'm saying that's why vets lean right is guns laws, not necessarily the other laws.

Don't forget Trudeau's Bahamas vacation costing over $200 000.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bahamas-vacation-rcmp-1.4286033

America, fuck ya!

Please - combat veterans have become a welfare class. 40% of veterans separating from service claim disability. The annual spend on disability benefits is in excess of 60 billion dollars.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Remember the last time that soldiers tried to stand up for themselves, the government turned the army lose on veterans and women and children.

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

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Combat veterans...the guys doing the killing in Iraq and Afghanistan etc? Who cares about em...baby killers with blood on their hands carrying out orders from a elite

Anyone thinking about signing up for the military should take that as a warning that they don't give a fuck about you.

Serves these combat vets right. When liberals try to be fair to them, they fight them off to death, trying to protect their conservative values. Those conservative values won't be paying for their medical checkups and needed drugs now will it?

Funny enough the military and its many branches is a microcosm of a socialist system. Yet the military leans to the right, politically.

rank has it's privileges

But yet the citizens of the U.S. continue to vote for those in power. Funny thing is that those who say they are going to remove the corruption in the governments after they are in office for six months they become as corrupted as the rest of them. Government is not going to change until the apathy and blinders of the American people are removed.

here in the US we have Veteran discounts in stores, and maybe some online !, 5% to 15% taken off purchase prices.

I think he's nailed it on the head. Re-read what he said.

As an Iraq vet.

We get family separation about 250 a month if married or have children. We also get our income tax free. My deployment was from June 2006 to June 2007. I got loads back from the government in my tax return as well. I only paid taxes for half the year each year so I ended up with about 4500 each tax return and only paid a total of about 1500 each year in taxes.

And yes it was nice coming back with about 10k in the bank even with a wife and kid.

No. Congressmen and senators only need to serve one day to qualify for lifelong medical benefits.

Well, I would.

I'm not sure if this is new, but service members do get imminent danger pay for being deployed to a high conflict area or if they take fire. As well as the other perks that the other commenter told you. Maybe that wasn't a thing when he was in? I know my friends received it on deployments from 2014 onward.

Congress gets private care paid for by public dollars.

Veterans get actual government run healthcare, known as the VA. Which is why I'm not the least bit interested in government run healthcare for all.

well it is McCain, one of the worst warmongers in the government right now, and frankly i hope he doesnt survive it.

This comment did nothing other than show you have no spine to just flat out say something without giving yourself an out.

I don't like any idea that conflates public service in one of our executive, legislative or judicial branches with service in one of the divisions of our armed forces. And I think in terms of the precepts of the Constitution and its framers, none of them would either. I see where you're going, but there are other measures to be taken that do not lead us to a military dictatorship.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm calling you stupid for thinking it's that simple. What about the truck drivers that are hauling water or gas to villages that use those things? They're working on gov't contracts, not with the military, but they're completely complicit in everything else the military does, according to you. Fuck off, I'm done with you.

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

This is neither a secret plan nor is it unlawful.

Yea and it was wrong in the forat sentence

Republicans arenr perfect. But they are FAR better than dems

In fact red states are much more economically prosperous than blue states

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/red-states-really-are-the-model-of-economic-success/

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/study-red-state-blue-state/

And have more freedom

https://amac.us/americans-are-migrating-to-more-free-republican-states/

In fact under obama we saw rhe largest transfer of wealth from poor to top in history

You're welcome ;)

(or not)

Yeah, because they're smart enough to know that some people just can't be trusted, and that everyone needs to be able to defend themselves regardless of the threat. And their opinion is coloured by the fact that every time a leftist gets into power things go tits up.