how does changing your body change your gender

it doesn't. not sure why you think it does?

Gender isn't biological is it?

correct.

Does the body have anything to do with gender?

maybe neurologically.

TIL my penis is a neurological phenomenon.

How is that off topic? I'm not allowed to respond to someone else in the thread, only your original post?

Because gender isnt only neurological. And if you think it isn't biological, then you should take a biology course.

Nope.

Sue me. I'm still livin in 2014 over here. Is forcing society to accept the delusions of mentally ill people really progress?

who told you that? that's absurd.

did you respond to the wrong comment, or did you completely misread mine?

mmmm, i'm not sure. the premise you laid out in your OP is based on a false assumption (changing the body is changing the gender).

precisely, which is why the sexual reassignment surgery isn't what makes you a different gender.

transgenderism is about living the way you choose, and some people choose (for whatever reason) to live their lives as a different gender than their biological birth sex.

whether they get the surgery is beside the point.

I dont claim to know a lot on this subject but usually people (in these situations) change their sex to be inline with their gender and not vice versa.

Gender = psychological Sex = physical

I may be horribly uninformed or spot on the money, i really dont know. But thats how i've always figured it to be.

Unfortunately the process doesnt seem to work in reverse.

That is to say, if i feel like a man inside there is no reason to change my physical being. If i did, i'd be opening up new problems for myself such as body dysmorphia and may completely reject my new state (on a psyche level).

If psychologically i already feel like a woman, this isnt an issue i would likely have to deal with.

... and now that fucking horrible Cheryl Crow song is in my head.

This guy is saying Gender is mental, while Sex is physical.

So if a guy mentally feels like he's a girl, he may want to change his Sex to match what s/he feels s/he is.

So it's changing the physical, to feel more comfortable mentally and not have almost two split personalities? I'm no expert and don't have any experience personally with trans people, so take everything I said with a heap of salt.

So if you were kidnapped and someone gave you a sex change against your will would you still identify as a male (assuming you are a male currently) or a female? Would you want to get changed back?

You gotta watch out for those serial sex changers

Gender is a social construction driven by cultural norma

I don't think gender (a mental feeling) is disconnected from sex (a biological fact.) Now I'm willing to conceded that a man who feels female likely has something neurological and hirmonally that makes his sex leaning more female despite his outward genitalia.

But its taboo to say that now. Which makes absolutely no sense because it gives trans people much more of a basis for validating their condition, for lack of a better word.

But if gender is just a construct that can be changed, then can't how you feel be changed too?

So it seems they "rationalize" in circles until they just end uo shooting themselves in the foot with their own arguments.

This

I can answer logically, but I will need some baseline info first. Are we just animals? Or something more? If so, what? Is there is even free will? So do you really want an ontology discussion or are you really looking to post your agenda?

I didn't say you had agenda. I asked, "So do you really want an ontology discussion or are you really looking to post your agenda?" You seemed to be focused on the agenda part or the question, and totally skipped the offer to have ontological discussion.

Now you response: "What is my agenda??" Kind of proves you have an agenda, since you skipped to that part. If you didn't have agenda, then you would have focused on the first part of the question: "So do you really want an ontology discussion?" Your reply ignored that part completely, so now t would be logically to assume that your post is agenda driven. Yes, I am saying that now, but only after you had proved that in your response.
You agenda seems to be motivated by bigotry and trying to prove that those people are wrong about the personal decisions they make about their own lives. Trying to get others to judge people without empathy. To call out the other. To marginalize them as crazy and sick, instead of calling for compassion and treating people as individuals.

I think this debate is really simple honestly. Gender is societal, in the sense that it is what is certain roles expected, performed, and reinforced culturally based on your sex. Sex is simply the organs you are born with.

To elaborate on the societal and performative nature of gender- not all societies have always had such a rigid view of sexuality as the modern West. Greeks and Romans were totally cool with homosexuality, as long as you weren't the one being penetrated. It was socially acceptable and performatively masculine to do the penetrating, but to receive it was considered a feminine act.

The same can be said about what clothes one wears. For example, the Greeks and Romans considered it highly feminine and barbaric to wear trousers, the manly virile toga was the proper expression of masculinity. 2,000 years later everyone wears trousers, and no one wears togas, though the closest thing to togas- a dress, is considered highly feminine.

That being said, Gender and Sex are related, but mostly on a superficial level. You act like a "male" should act because that is how society expects you to act, how you were raised, and what you feel is right. If someone wanted to switch their gender norms and act like a woman in a male body, it may make people uncomfortable, and it may seem "unnatural" to some, but the very fact that they can do this in the first place kinda shows the reality that gender is performative to begin with.

Personally, I don't see the issue with letting people just be themselves. I do, however, have an issue with sex changes forced on young children. I don't think any sort of chemicals or recognition of gender change should be allowed for anyone under 18, as that should be a strictly personal choice, that requires informed consent from that individual and that individual alone.

I know this wont jive with everyone here, but that's how I see things.

Gender = self identification, i.e. you self identify as a toaster gender Sex = biologically determined, i.e. your sex chormosomes are either XY and you are biologically male or XX and you are biologically female.

precisely, which is why the sexual reassignment surgery isn't what makes you a different gender.

transgenderism is about living the way you choose, and some people choose (for whatever reason) to live their lives as a different gender than their biological birth sex.

whether they get the surgery is beside the point.