when did Americans start believing ‘End of Days’ foretelling Jewish control of all Jerusalem, a war of civilizations, and a choice of Jews to either embrace Christianity or die in the wrath of God

9  2017-12-09 by rockytimber

Sounds to me like something MK Ultra or CIA mind control program would have been interested in. Mass hallucinations without the bother of LSD and hippies. Before the likes of Billy Graham, regular White House guest, these kinds of lunatic fringe types were relegated to tent shows in the South, and snake tricks. Seriously, America has been programmed into a religious state like it never was before the rise of national charismatic christianity in the 60's and 70's. It was considered a sign of ignorance and rural inbreeding even in the 20's and 30's.

Yet now we have US foreign policy being dictated to politicians like Trump who cave into these retards for votes. Or maybe, just maybe, we have a deep state who likes it this way and is pushing this Christian agenda because its profitable for the war machine?

47 comments

The US was, and still is for the most part, a Judeo-Christian nation. We were not founded on that, really, but the people who first came here were of that belief, and it still holds true to this day, although many in the younger generations are claiming to be more "spiritual" than religious.

No, research the trajectory/history of religion in America and American politics. When the US was founded, Thomas Paine was popular for the Age of Reason. Mark Twain, one of the most popular public speakers ever in America was extremely critical of religious ignorance as were many others like Ingersoll. Bet you never even heard of any of this and just believe what you were told at church https://theamericanscholar.org/a-new-birth-of-reason/

Eh, you're conflating a few in politics and academia with the broader population of the United States, who were, for the most part Judeo-Christian, whether it was Puritan, Quaker, Protestant, or Catholic.

Bet you never even heard of any of this and just believe what you were told at church

Sure I have, I'm a scholar of history, and no, I do not attend church being that I'm not religious myself. I have spiritual beliefs, but no religion.

Church attendance dropped off in America like a falling rock in the 20's and 30's.

Here is Cynthia Lynn Lyerly, Department of History,Boston College, take on the matter (link at bottom)

In the wake of the Scopes monkey trial, Bryan is made to look foolish. ... Unlike the movie suggests, he's not destroyed, and he's going to continue on. There's no reason to believe, if he hadn't died, that he wouldn't have been a defender of the faith. And probably if he had been able to speechify on it, he would have probably made up for the lost capital of this trial.

Darrow is made to look like a champion of free speech and free thought, like he is.

Fundamentalists retreat. Not that those laws against evolution go away entirely, but fundamentalists retreat from public life, set up their own institutions. They become a little insular. ... They work on building their own internal empire, their own publishing arms, their own radio stations, later their own TV stations. ... We don't see them again until the Moral Majority. So fundamentalism takes a public knock. ...

How do you interpret the Scopes trial? Is it about Darwin and evolution, or something else?

The Scopes trial is about a lot of things. On a religious level, it really is about skepticism, fundamentalism and modernism all together thrown in there, that mix. It's also about cosmopolitanism versus rural America.

The Scopes trial, in Mencken's coverage of it, posits these two different Americas. One is backward and ignorant and rural, and the other is forward-thinking, secular and urban. I think that opposition stays with people for a long time after the trial. ...

What does the Scopes trial tell us about the divisions among Protestants? What are the divisions that we're seeing among religious people?

... There are two very diametrically opposed camps. Just like with the slavery question, they read the same book; they believe in the same God; they believe in the same Christ. But they are fundamentally at odds over basic questions of faith, so Protestants themselves are fractured.

Does anyone end up on top at this moment in 1925, or is it more about division?

... I don't think that these divisions are healed until the 1950s, when, because of the Cold War, you get this idea that America is a religious nation, and so Protestant, Catholic, Jew, whatever you are, that we're people of faith. The Communists don't have faith. ...

Where are we with the notion that America has a special destiny and is chosen by God by the end of the Scopes trial?

What you would have to conclude by the end of the Scopes trial is that no matter where you fall on the spectrum of faith in this time period, that you can no longer be so confident in America's special relationship with God. The feeling that religious people would be that, that's imperiled because of these divisions even between these religious groups. How can God still have chosen America as favored if we don't even agree with each other, with like-minded people of faith?

And then if you're Bryan, you're thinking, America is turning its back on God. It was chosen by God for this special mission, and now America has rejected God, certainly in the public schools. Even though he wins, he loses. He loses in the public relations. He loses in the hearts and minds of most Americans. ...

http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/interviews/cynthia-lyerly.html#ingersoll

This was a Christian nation not a Judeo-Christian (whatever that is?). Think John Locke. The whole Judeo Christian bullshit came in the 1800's, when the chosenites realized how easy it is to take advantage of Christian ideology.

Christians have always believed this. It isn't MK Ultra or CIA mind control, it is brainwashing from the church.

Do you think Jews are brainwashed also?

I think the entire Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) is about astrology/astronomy. I think it has hidden meanings and isn't meant to be taken literally. This is my opinion.

But if other people want to take the Bible literally, that is their own concern/business.

No, research the trajectory of religion in America and American politics. When the US was founded, Thomas Paine was popular for the Age of Reason. Mark Twain, one of the most popular public speakers ever in America was extremely critical of religious ignorance as were many others like Ingersoll. Bet you never even heard of any of this and just believe what you were told at church https://theamericanscholar.org/a-new-birth-of-reason/

Most people know not all the founders were Christian. That doesn't change the fact that the stuff you are asking about is in the Bible. People have believed this garbage for millennia, no spooky CIA intervention needed.

I know who Thomas Paine and Mark Twain are. I've read Thomas Paine's writings.

The majority of the founders were pretty adamant that it would be dangerous to not have a secular form of government.

No, "people" in America have largely doubted that the Bible could be taken literally, at least until evangelical and charismatic religion escaped the rural backwaters and invaded the cities starting in the time of Billy Graham, White House favorite. Harry Trueman for example and those of his time did not invite the snake charmers to the White House.

I think I've radically misunderstood your post.

Looking back on the extraordinary decline in religious literalism that took place among educated Americans in the decades bracketing the turn of the century, it is easy to see why fundamentalism was prematurely declared dead by many prominent American intellectuals in the 1920s, just as the death of God would be prematurely reported in the 1960s. In 1931, the distinguished editor of Harper’s magazine, Frederick Lewis Allen, summed up the Scopes trial in his classic work of popular history, Only Yesterday, which has never been out of print. “Legislators might go on passing anti-evolution laws,” Allen wrote, “and in the hinterlands the pious might still keep their religion locked in a science-proof compartment of their minds; but civilized opinion everywhere had regarded the Dayton trial with amazement and amusement, and the slow drift away from Fundamentalist certainty continued.” That is how things looked at the beginning of the Great Depression in the offices of prestigious magazines in New York and Boston, and that is how they would continue to look to secular intellectuals well into the 1980s.

https://theamericanscholar.org/a-new-birth-of-reason/#

You might be on to something, if there really is a god.

I believe there is.

from what you were told, or have you seen evidence?

It's about faith for people that believe. An evidentiary argument holds no merit in the religious arena.

I'd say a mixture of what I have been told and convicted by the evidence.

I believe there is a creator, just not in the context of the Bible. Too many glaring holes for me, but definitely a creator.

May I ask, what do you see as the biggest hole?

We can pick anything. Let's say Moses, how he goes up the mountain to talk with God and he allegedly comes down with a tablet that God made with the 10 commandments. Moses gets so angry at the site of his followers worshipping a bronze Idol when they come back, he throws and breaks the tablet. He has to go back up the mountain, but this time he comes back with one that he made.

Also, a God great enough to create the universe would not require us to worship him or Jesus, otherwise live in hell for eternity.

Okay. Thank you for your answer. I appreciate your perspective. If it matters to you at all I actually don't see holes in what you mentioned. Either way I appreciate the discussion :)

All good man, to each their own.

I don't know, if I had something hand crafted by God, I sure as fuck would be able to not purposely break it, you know? And if God required us to believe that Jesus died for our sins, otherwise suffer eternally, surely he'd have a better way to get the message to everyone. Had no one written anything down, we'd be shit out of luck.

Hm. I don't think that the Gospel is meant to necessarily convince everybody. Certainly God doesn't want anyone to perish, still the Gospel obviously won't reach everyone. It will call what God calls "the elect." Make of that what you will. As for Moses, I think that facet of his story highlights a lot. For one, the fallibility and temporal nature of the old law, as mentioned in the new testament. Certainly him breaking the tablet says more about him than it does about God. We see man failing God all throughout the Bible, except in the life of one man, notably.

No, if there really was a god, then all bets would be off because he would have to be a psychopath.

Why do you think this?

...a God who could make good children as easily as bad ones, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and foregiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!

Mark Twain

When you look at all the suffering on earth, it appears as though we're in a prison. Animals eat other animals for food FFS. Have you ever felt minus 40C in the North? That is hell.

I've read several articles about how many of the big evangelists (like Benny Hinn) use mass hypnosis techniques at their large gatherings.

The Scofield bible started it all. The Jews are happy so long as evangelicals support them; to the Jews it's all a fairytale that serves them well.

It was a matter of debate whether the Book of Revelations should be canon or go into the Apocrypha, the "we're not sure about this" section.

Now it's pretty much all evangelicals care about. I went to a Catholic school and never dipped into Revelations until a friend became evangelical.

This guy gets it.

choice of Jews to either embrace Christianity or die in the wrath of God

This could go in a few different directions, but I want to try to make a single point so it isn't lost. I think that the creation of ISIS was a psyop to continue middle east operations and they achieved their mission of escalating tension between the West and Muslims.

This engineered narrative forced the classic Jew or Muslim false choice. 3rd parties usually don't want to be in bed with either, but when forced into a corner you go along with the people closest to your values. Oddly, when the one side is lopping off heads on youtube (since the Jews are paying them to do it), people usually sign up with Israel.

But once you've signed up, it's too late. After your in bed with them, the deal is done. You're just another tool of the Illuminati, whether you realize it or not.

Around the time the Schofield bible was introduced. None of this is at all Christian.

Where have you been?

There have been movies made about it: Left Behind? Books written about it. Bible scholars obsessing over it.

The rapture as it is described in the movie and books is speculation. Of course, the cryptic passages give only so much detail. However the Jews still await Messiah’s coming; they did not expect the suffering Messiah and the Church age.

But, what you should wonder is why all these prophecies are coming true. Why the illuminati, masters of the deep state and would be rulers of the ‘new world order’ seek to destroy Christianity and call their lord, Lucifer. Why old and new testaments predict similar fantastical events involving God saving His children, born of faith and not only of the flesh. This is a global, deeply evil, insidious, ancient plan evolving alongside God’s mercy and kingdom in Christ.

It obvious that this narrative/worldview has some appeal, look at the upvotes your comment evokes.

But, no, I am not falling for it. That is not what is actually going on at all. Its a belief system, effectively a mental virus of make believe. Just because it apparently explains some stuff does not make it valid, does not mean that it accurately describes what is going on. And its based on assumptions that are counter-factual, fake.

The facts do line up to there being factions with power and factions that are oppressed, sure. The ones with more power obviously are in a position to do more damage to others.

But this reliance on particular interpretations of mythological literature, whether its one side or the other trying to twist their version of it, is nonsense. The problem is that despite the scientific method, modern secular beliefs are also a pile of shit. So people desperate for explanations are suckers.

I suggest to you and all others desperate for truth to develop a list of mentors and experts that are an alternative to the bs factions of believers, who have a better researched view of the past and the present, people like: STEPHEN F. COHEN, JON COLE, DAVID CHANDLER, DANIELE GANSER, SHARYL ATTKISSON, MARK CRISPIN MILLER, KEVIN RYAN, DAVID RAY GRIFFIN, F. WILLIAM ENGDAHL ,PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS, FRANCIS RICHARD CONOLLY, PETER DALE SCOTT, PEPE ESCOBAR, ANDREW J. BACEVICH, JOHN JUDGE (1948-2014), JOHN PILGER, AND DOZENS MORE. MARK AMES (BORN OCTOBER 3, 1965) IS A WRITER KNOWN FOR HIS WORK AS A MOSCOW-BASED EXPATRIATE AMERICAN JOURNALIST. ABBY MARTIN. MARK BLYTH, NIALL FERGUSON, BILL MOYERS, STEPHEN KINZER, ROBERT PARRY AND MIKE LOFGREN. DENNIS KUCINICH, JULIAN ASSANGE. WILLIAM BLUM. WILLIAM EDWARD BINNEY Fired FAU professor James Tracy, Craig Murray, DR. MARK SKIDMORE There are more.

If you want someone who has their own "channel" try Sibel Edmonds, Corbett Report, even Jimmy Dore (who landed a gob of spit on Alex Jones’ face).

I think the remedy for ignorant belief is to develop better information sources and wean yourself away from charlatans. Obviously you have some sketchy resources for your information that need debunking.

Hey, what many of these ppl have to say does not contradict where things are going, as prophesied. I would even say I respect the names on your list that I recognize. They are just reporting the details as they are unfolding.

If you are aware of how the scientific method works, you know very well it cannot be applied to all matters. You have take what science has deciphered and realize not all is even understood or known. You want to operate on a system that is incomplete and has been in error many times in history. You may be misinformed of the claims, fulfilled prophecies to date and other scientifically supported evidence that give validity to God’s word, Jesus’ exceptional life, works and resurrection. These things have been prophesied for thousands of years: a one world government that controls money. Look just for that one bec that is what this news cover is referring to and it is a very concrete process happening as we speak.

Don't you know about how these religious beliefs are made up all the time, didn't you laugh at South Park when they made fun of the Mormons, and you certainly can't accept two or three different versions simultaneously like the Muslim version, the Jewish version and the modern post Moral Majority Jerry Falwell and other revisionist apocalyptic versions (Jim Jones anyone?) that didn't even exist in their present form just a few centuries ago. These cult like brainwashing systems are not compatible, except in the most generous interpretations by mythologists like Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung, whom I doubt you have seriously investigated. Did you even bother to look at the links I have provided within the comment section of the post? Here they are again for your information and hopefully, your "enlightenment". You can spend a lifetime growing your understanding if you don't get hung up along the way with bad sources.

https://theamericanscholar.org/a-new-birth-of-reason/

http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/interviews/cynthia-lyerly.html#ingersoll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBjdIl-UBhU

The Bible is not ‘made up all the time’. It has stood the test of millennia and still stands —validated by miracles, Jesus, prophecy and science (at times).

What do I care about south park ridicule and foolishness of false prophets? They will answer for their evil. In spite of detraction and fraud, God is still present in our world, and seeking those who seek Him, in spirit and in truth.

Why don’t you realize there is more to God than gaudy charlatans and ask Him to let you know the truth.

I am not saying that the world is unintelligent, or that life in an accident. I am just saying there are excellent resources that expose how these religious cults grew out of ignorance. In order for us to communicate, we have can't just promote opinions. We all have the right to opinions, but we don't have the right to make up facts.

a)literacy, degree of being informed, or some kind of equivalence in educational status. This no longer exists. Educational institutions used to provide this and still do, to a degree, at least provide a fairly uniform world view to the particular elites who attend certain institutions. But the value of the average college degree in terms of real literacy is less than what a standard high school education would give an affluent person 100 years ago.

b)reasonable. a basic common sense, or better yet, an open mind and ability to analyze and assimilate information critically and not be part of a cult like identity group that is absolutist or fanatical about its beliefs. This is rare in extremely religious or extremely partisan ideologues.

c)good faith. not all reasonable people are acting in good faith. good faith goes beyond reasonable in that previous history of (often legitimate) distrust does not apply. Old patterns of distrust are set aside, which is often impossible in the real world. e)subconscious factors - Carl Jung and others have pointed out many psychological features that operate outside of our normal awareness, that affect our dreams and determine our personalities. People who are out of touch with their deepest (not sentimentality) feelings have an advantage in sensing their way through the world without imbalance reliance on mental models, thought systems, world views.

f)degree of indoctrination, conceptually compromised. in general humans have adopted a conceptual framework which they look through and its actually pretty rare for them to look directly at the world without that system of interpretation. At least that is the focus, and becomes extreme with religious and political zealots. Body language shows that there is a level at which a more basic awareness operates and is generally not controlled by our thinking. Thus the thinking level is somewhat superficial or even hallucinatory, but below it is a level that is much more connected to the subconscious, and also the basic physiological functions.

You are assuming believers believe bec they are ignorant and unaware of more substantiated options. That would be ignorance on your part.

I have been indoctrinated, I would agree, but I have seen that not all who come in God’s name are genuine and grown up to satisfy my own doubts and questions, more directly from the Source. My critical thinking is functional and can weigh out claims, evidence, experiential phenomenon and opposing arguments. Sure, there are cryptic passages and undisclosed realities scripture withholds, but there is enough to compel faith —not of blind kind.

I am sure human wisdom has much to add, we are our Father’s children, made in His image. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to reveal a Himself. Take care you are not dazzled by lofty thoughts that seduce you away from what really counts.

There are excellent resources that expose how these religious cults grew out of a particular literary genre, its actually very well documented. You should be interested in that. Otherwise, you might be putting your faith in something not worthy of it.

Ok. Like what? I doubt you have anything that will surprise me, but I guess you can’t believe that.

Start with Dr. Robert M. Price books and youtubes. There are lots of others but he is a good start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pCUfaZFCk

I saw a tabloid today at the grocery store whose headline read 'nostradamus predicts Trump is antichrist' something or other. Isn't a charismatic leader that starts shot in the middle east the antichrist MO...? I'm atheist but I bought extra batteries for my flashlight just in case

The Bible is not ‘made up all the time’. It has stood the test of millennia and still stands —validated by miracles, Jesus, prophecy and science (at times).

What do I care about south park ridicule and foolishness of false prophets? They will answer for their evil. In spite of detraction and fraud, God is still present in our world, and seeking those who seek Him, in spirit and in truth.

Why don’t you realize there is more to God than gaudy charlatans and ask Him to let you know the truth.

Most people know not all the founders were Christian. That doesn't change the fact that the stuff you are asking about is in the Bible. People have believed this garbage for millennia, no spooky CIA intervention needed.

I think I've radically misunderstood your post.