Fantastic analysis. I have written a whole post on how the removal of philosophy from the core education subjects has suppressed critical thinking skills.

Philosophy is the subject where there isn’t much to learn, but rather it develops how you think. Herding the sheep isn’t as effective if they start thinking twice about walking into the slaughter house.

Cogito ergo sum could not be more relevant in the digital world.

Also music. There are no right brain activities in school anymore. Right brain development =happiness.

No music in school? What you talking about?

It’s echo chambers all the way down...

Nice user_name. :D

Wait what? They made everyone do mandatory music classes (that were terrible) in my elementary school, and they gave you optional band extracurriculars through high school.

What's awesome to know is that we'll never have another Socrates, we get the guy who is willing to walk every step righteously while still making you question everything.

I really wish more people would use this reasoning..

Some "rules / guidelines" for what I think that you suggest:

• Even people with the most "publicly accepted" theories have been proven wrong

• Nothing is certain except that the only constant is change

• Finding a flaw in one theory doesn't necessarily prove your alternative theory to be true

• Try to focus on discussing the issue / topic at hand without looking for a specific group / person to put the blame on. This will make it easier to focus on things like Why is this an issue? In what way are we allowing this issue to persist and how can we resolve it? What pro-actice measures could have avoided this issue?

Comments are appreciated!

;) like your post.

Point no. 2 is very important.

I think that some things are certain in the sense that there is an absolute truth in the universe

:)

A quote from men in black has always stuck with me. " Fifteen hundred years ago people knew the earth was the center of the uuniverse, two hundred years ago people knew the earth was flat, 15 minutes ago you knew humans were alone on this Earth. Imagine what you will know tomorrow."

I think a lot of problems can be associated more to the fact of rapid expansion in technology. We have all these phones and computers and widgets to deal with. And we as humans need to figure out a balance. We have jumped head fisrt into it with out looking at the consequences. To take the whole net neutrality as an example. I bet half of the Congressmen have 0 idea of how the internet works. And they may legitimately think Al Gore invented it. So they don't see a side effect of changing it. We need to change how we govern our people. Old people may have wisdom from there lives. But they don't know anything pertaining to the current times. They know the best decision for 25 years ago. But that's not good enough anymore. We need a wider range of government. Not kids. But real working class Americans.

Sorry for the rant.

I agree.

You might find this interesting, http://basicincome.org/news/2015/12/finland-basic-income-experimental-governance/.

I'm not sure if they still do it but I know Finland used to hand out care packages with new borns. Which would be cool for Americans. Or paying for the birth. Either one.

My mother is finnish, they do. I'm not living there though.

I'm trying to introduce this concept to my kids when they try to tell me they 'know' one of their siblings did something. You make a fair point though, thanks for sharing :)

Agreed with pretty much everything you said, but I'm definitely not as "accommodating" to the flat earth idea as you are man.

A lot of us on here think that goofy flat earth shit is pushed on here by shills to make us look wacky and ridiculous to anyone lurking or visiting the sub. They see a flat earth post and boom, never coming back and completely shut off to the idea of being a part of the culture here. You know Shareblue spams the shit out of the "new" que with dumb shit like,

"Is my neighbor a vampire?"

You don't know if there is a vampire or reptilian living next door to the poster, either. So why pretend?

Sure, but personally, I'm just here to put my focus toward the stuff we have actual evidence for and can show to the unaware masses. I don't tend to get too dazzled by the "what if's" and the fantasy/pandoras box type topics here that have little evidence to support them.

I know that the global elite convene to establish a global totalitarian government. They admit this in their memoirs and we can easily observe the process by which they do this, incrementally and slowly over time. To me, this is "the" conspiracy, and it's our most imminent threat. Every other act of conspiracy by the global crime syndicate is a move toward this ultimate goal. This is their wet dream. So that's where 99% of my focus is.

That's not to say I don't delve into ancient Egypt, Freemasonry, UFO's, and the usual conspiracy fodder. I just feel like if we want to wake people up, perhaps we divert our attention toward where the evidence is. Or else this is just a hangout where we spin our wheels and blow off steam. I think this place is a tool to reach people.

And there are just as many reasons to believe that the people at these meetings are colluding instead of just a collection of people all trying to convince the others to take a course of action, or just a think tank of people dreaming of ways that the world could be better through concerted action.

We have numerous examples of that in the world, as many or more than we have instances of actual industry/government collusion. And it doesn't take long to see that the same people talking about these conferences clearly have regrets and things they wish were different in the world, because they tell you those too.

So it's nowhere near irrational to think it's unlikely for any random people to control the world. Or even to think that leaders getting together in such a fashion is a force for good in the world, and not a plot for deception.

Guess what bud? All those other conspiracies you like started off the exact same way, with one guy with a crazy idea and very little evidence. You need to give ideas time to prosper, and that includes flat earth and it's associates which you newbies seem to think is a sudden share blue idea, when in reality it's been a concept forever. Conspiracy sub isn't a place for the masses, it's a garden for ideas to grow. If you want a normie safe place maybe you should make a sub only for proven conspiracies, but I don't think people would really like that..because they are I TO the far out conspiracies...

They see a flat earth post and boom, never coming back and completely shut off to the idea of being a part of the culture here.

Well, those kinds of people aren't thinking critically, are they? Which is the point of op's post. those people want to believe they know the truth. just like you: "goofy flat earth shit is pushed on here by shills to make us look wacky and ridiculous"

did you travel far into outer space and see a round earth with your own eyes?

did you travel far into outer space and see a round earth with your own eyes?

Have you traveled into outerspace and seen a FE?

No, we can prove the Earth is not flat with simple observation.

Flat Earther here. I'm not part of a CIA Psy-Op. The math of the round earth can be easily disproven. It's worth looking into and making your mind up and not blindly trusting NASA. You don't blindly trust the 9/11 comission, do you?

The math of the round earth can be easily disproven.

okay, disprove it.

blindly trusting NASA.

People say this, and I really don't understand where it comes from. Are you under the impression that NASA is the only organization that has any evidence of the Earth being a sphere? Where did you get that idea from?

There's only a handful of spacefaring countries, relatively easy to keep a lid on a secret between 4 or 5 countries?

You don't need to go into space to see evidence of a round Earth, anyone who's sent up a weather balloon would be enough. You're talking about countless private companies, research organizations, governments around the world over the span of half a century. Entire industries would have to be in on it.

You can buy a plane ticket from S. Africa to Australia and the flight is about 12 hours, if you do the same on a flat earth it would be roughly twice that time because those two continents are on the opposite side of a flat earth map. FLAT EARTH DEBUNKED. I met a guy from S. Africa last year who has done this flight many times, it does exist, you can go to the airline website and buy this ticket.

You forgot to mention the "do some research" reply when asked how they came to their conclusion.

Ach. Reason.

The fact is, unless you fly over Antarctica personally, you don't know if its a flat earth.

Time zones and sunsets are enough to prove the Earth is round. Anytime you drive to a city you see the top half of the buildings peaking over the horizon before the bottom.

OK. But how (on a flat Earth) do you explain different times for sunsets as you go west? I promise I won't put you under house arrest.

The fact is, unless you fly over Antarctica personally, you don't know if its a flat earth.

How exactly would flying over Antartica personally allow a greater perspective on the earth being flat?

Maybe the earth isn't flat but it's a circle and not a sphere

Are you saying there isn't 100% irrefutable proof to the earth is spherical?

You can buy a plane ticket from S. Africa to Australia and the flight is about 12 hours, if you do the same on a flat earth it would be roughly twice that time because those two continents are on the opposite side of a flat earth map. FLAT EARTH DEBUNKED. I met a guy from S. Africa last year who has done this flight many times, it does exist, you can go to the airline website and buy this ticket.

fair enough. i am also open to the possibility of paradigm shifting realizations.

because im not capable of conducting the research necessary

Why? You can figure this out by asking very simple questions.

you've been lied to before.

Why would you lie to yourself? The trick is to do independent investigation and come to your own conclusions.

Instead operate from a place of "most likely" and "probably" and "best evidence suggests."

Sure be open and inquisitive but dont tell me 2+2=5

There are four lights!

How many scientific "truths" are adapted? Evolved? Changed? A fuck ton, every single day. We learn more and more about our environment and the way things work... every single day.

To claim you know something as 100% true is irresponsible.

Dont play that card.

Sure we can have a discussion on what truths are real and what arent but its a very simple fact that the earth is not flat.

Will the sun rise tomorrow with 100% certainty? Who knows but Im willing to bet that it will. Would you like to take that bet, how much do you bet the sun will not rise tomorrow? Will you bet a few thousand bucks, since nothing is 100% true?

If you wont take that bet tell me why not.

They had proof based on their models and theorems that the universe revolved around the earth.

Thats actually not factually accurate. Look up the history of geocentrism and you will find Mars at the head of it.

Geocentric believers could not explain the orbit of mars (And a few others but Mars was the best example) It made no sense, it just did loop de loops through the sky. The orbit of mars made perfect sense if we both orbited the sun.

So the sun might not rise tomorrow and Mars might be doing giant loops through the sky but Im betting on the sun rising and Mars orbiting the sun.

Care to take that bet?

My point is: as human beings, claiming truth in anything is faulty and ridiculous.

That is getting a wee bit off topic, no?

I mean we have pictures from space... We have tests that show us the Earth isnt flat... We can observe... You can ask questions and find answers...

To think that the shape of the planet is in question is to deny these facts.

Do you deny that we can perform tests to find these answers?

Do you think that 2+2=7?

Your way of thinking holds societies back, keeps us in the dark ages where new hypothesis and paradigm shifts can land you in house arrest... like Galileo.

While I would argue that giving people platforms to tell me that 2+2=7 holds us back.

Not all theories are created equal and we can and should perform tests ourselves to verify these theories.

Go back and read what you wrote.

I've no idea. I'm not a scientist. Based on my limited understanding of basic science I think that it's extremely likely that the Earth is round and that's the assumption I operate on. However, because im not capable of conducting the research necessary,

You absolutely are capable of conducting the necessary research. What you wrote would be like saying "Bacteria is probably real but since I cant view them Ill never know for sure"

"Computers probably arent magic but since Im not capable of viewing an electron Ill never know for sure"

Well thats just defeatist. What you should be doing instead of waxing poetically about solipsistic ideas is to figure out what you can do to verify these ideas.

If I told you getting bit by a shark would hurt would you say that you dont know because you have never been bit by a shark?

This is an ever evolving process but if we all just threw our hands up and said we will never know anything for sure then where is the pressure to figure this out?

I'm not. By conducting the research, I immediately begin relying on constructs. I begin relying on hypothesis testing (i didn't come up with this idea,) measuring tools, ways of thinking. I begin relying on others' data (and by others, I mean folly human beings with limited perception.) I rely on institutions, ideas, and even my own intuition and biases to understand the world. At the root of all of these things is the human being, and the human being is severely flawed. It's not a perfect AI machine with unlimited processing power, quite the opposite.

Standing on the shoulders of giants. This is an old philosophical question.

I'm tired of repeating myself so if you still disagree, let me know if I can clarify anything, but otherwise let's wrap this up. If you're not seeing my point by now I don't think you will.

I honestly think your point is "I just too intro to philosophy"

epistemological discussion, like "2+2=4"

I mean 2+2 could literally be anything...

How will we ever figure it out

Well guess we will never know.

Huh... So you mean to tell me if I have 2 apples and a friend gives me 2 more I could have 13 kelvin apples, of 6ft 5 inch apples.

Good to know.

Well then have a 14 degree Celsius upvote. Because I was born without the ability to tell the difference between a ratio and a nominal scale.

Not sure if its the correct answer, but I think the sun moves in a sinusoid wave, up and down, which somehow factors for changes in times and stuff, plus I guess diff viewpoints.

As for flat earth.... I really think people shouldn't jump to quick judgements, esp a big leap like flat earth. Discredit existing stuff sure, but don't just jump to push the alternative or blindly support that if something better pops up. I personally am not convinced on the flat earth yet, what I do know is that the standard model isn't accurate, and NASA does really seem to be full of shit.

I still think the glove is in the shape of an apple, but have a few other alternatives include flat that could work. I would also suggest anyone who still wants more answers, check out "electric universe theory" or "plasma science". Just learned about this recently, somehow missed it, and it connected ALOT of dots for me. Helped explain questions I had bout mysterious planets like venus. I might make my own post about it all cause I got some interesting info on it now.

Not sure if its the correct answer, but I think the sun moves in a sinusoid wave, up and down, which somehow factors for changes in times and stuff, plus I guess diff viewpoints

But if the Earth is flat then the sun will be up on the East Coast at same time it is up on the West Coast in this sinusoidal wave.

I think in the example I saw the sun orbits the article circle and goes like diagonally up away from globe, maybe sins left and right or something... not sure. I haven't really been convinced on flat earth either, still going with the apple shape for now, but def enough inconsistences' to question what NASA has put out.

Travelling any diagonal from a flat Earth the sun will only cross the horizon once. Not once on the East coast then again 3 hours later on the West Coast, which is what we all see.

There's plenty of models for flat earth which explain the sun and moons movement, obviously you haven't even remotely looked into the theory

Please feel free to link to one or breifly explain it.

This is one of the first links in DDG images

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=flat+earth+model+gif&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.tfes.org%2Fimages%2F7%2F70%2FSunAnimation.gif

According to that the sun never dips below the horizon...

not a flat Earther. Just providing links is all.

But I asked for a link that explained sunsets in different time zones. Can you provide that link?

I'll have a look for ya

Edit:- So i typed "Flat Earth sunsets in different time zones" into DDG and this was the 5th link suggested.

https://aplanetruth.info/17-if-a-flat-earth-why-does-the-sun-go-down/

I think it tries to explain what your asking?

Either way, if you want me to spend the night reading flat earth stuff you're gonna have to start paying me.

“What can be more common than the observation that, standing at one end of a long row of lamp-posts, those nearest to us seem to be the highest; and those farthest away the lowest; whilst, as we move along towards the opposite end of the series, those which we approach seem to get higher, and those we are leaving behind appear to gradually become lower … It is an ordinary effect of perspective for an object to appear lower and lower as the observer goes farther and farther away from it.

Sure, the lampposts become lower. But the lampposts never cross the horizon on a flat earth. The sun clearly does.

will converge to the angle which constitutes the ‘vanishing point’ or the horizon; beyond which it will be invisible.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not a Globe!”

The vanishing point is infinitely far away. There is no such thing as beyond the vanishing point. That is pretty basic geometry.

As far as paying you goes, the check is in the mail.

Or you could look it up yourself.

I'm so over the Reddit attitude that if someone makes a claim it's their job to prove it.

All we all have are questionable sources all around us. It's the ENTIRE POINT of this post.

Read about it yourself, bc a person throwing something in front of you invites nothing more than your entrenchment in your own views.

Ok. I looked it up. Turns out, the Earth is not flat. There are satellites orbiting around it. There are times zones and sunsets. These are all things that I have personally observed, no questionable sources required.

There's plenty of models for flat earth which explain the sun and moons movement, obviously you haven't even remotely looked into the theory

Not really though.

The problem with FE is exactly what you said, they have a model for sun and moon movements but they run into problems with it when its applied outside of the singular model.

So the Sun is close and small, but those angles dont match up when applied all over the planet.

https://takethisskepticalblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/how-to-disprove-the-flat-earth/

Literally the math doesnt add up. It works if you ignore the above link but why would you do that? Is it the truth if you ignore certain aspects of your universe?

It requires bullshit like an extra invisible planet to cover the moon.... Come on there is no evidence that is true and that model is patently false.

How can the sun illuminate the bottoms of clouds in the morning if it never sets? Unexplained pseudoscience is the only response Ive gotten.

There is so much counter evidence to the FE that you have to willingly ignore facts to make it work.

Ask yourself why FE is so popularly spread via youtube videos but no papers or technical write ups exist? Its because it falls to shit if you sit down and quantify the FE.

Your right not all models satisfy the argument, but just because general relativity doesn't work under quantum rules, we don't throw the whole thing out.

but just because general relativity doesn't work under quantum rules, we don't throw the whole thing out.

Thats not exactly a fair comparison.

Its not like there are unknowns in the globe Earth. Where in the FE models there are giant gaps and self contradicting bits.

Its plainly obvious the world isnt flat.

There's only three things thats for sure Taxes, death and trouble

-Marvin Gaye

To add on to this point people should be skeptical of all of these sexual abuse cases from politicians. Al Franken, Roy Moore, and Trump are just a handful that are complete false constructions by the MSM. Seriously, just check where they get their sources. Out of thin air with no ability to corroborate.

Pride and ego won't allow that. We're only human.

I've had enough of whatever is being said as soon as I read someone type "red pill".

Lol , heard one set of words, can't read the rest of the post. Your the problem with society. Getting triggered all over the place

Sure that's it! It's all me! Have a "red pill".

I agree completely, when I first came to a logical assertion that certain 'facts' we have been indoctrinated with, my critical evaluation changed completely. When talking about more common subjects such as JFK and 9/11 where a high percentage of members within this arena know that the official story is flawed, I still like to refer as the finer points as 'theories'. Be it a plane, projectiles, detonators, we know one of, or a combination of the theories caused the outcome.

Now when talking about less tangible conspiracies, such as flat earth and theories that are really difficult to grasp in a logical sense, I have learned that I must find proof to support any fact we have been fed. I have seen a lot of questionable arguments that support both a round earth and a flat model, but still can't find any reason to disbelieve the fact the earth is a spherical entity. I do not for any minute believe the simple story is anywhere near one hundred percent true, which allows for theories that question the fed model.

I know I am really just repeating your viewpoint, but it would be short sighted and myopic to cherry pick standard beliefs, and basterdise someone who struggles to agree even if the scenario seems highly plausible. The lie may not be as stark as some propose, but a full truth should never be expected.

Can't agree anymore with this. Good read thanks OP for typing this up.

So well said, thank you for posting this.

This is what I tell my kids, I think it goes along with your message: Water is made up of 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. You have been taught this and accept it as fact. Now prove it. I have no idea how to prove it, nor the equipment needed to do so. Neither do you. I do accept it as fact though. But why do we accept it as fact? Why, when we can't prove or disprove it? I do because I trust those that have taught it to me, but could it be a lie? Without proof that you can see, touch, smell, etc. it can be questioned.

When the TPTB start making absurd insinuations that are clearly crazy conspiracy theories we should remind everyone that they are simply being lied to.

when you start saying "I KNOW" you are automatically part of the problem.

100%. I've been saying that for a long while now.

People will say things like "such and such IS a psyop to discredit us", without any proof whatsoever. So what it should really say is "I have suspicioun that such and such could be a psyop because of x y and z". They think their conspiracy is a fact but it's really a hunch, so it gets chaotic.

On one hand, knowledge is generated by increasingly specialized researchers. On the other hand, the traditional trusted outlets of the media are proving to be utterly untrustworthy. Even the supposed bastions of scientific integrity, scientific journals, are becoming untrustworthy. There's the quote that gets thrown around here a lot by the editor of the Lancet estimating "much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.

So how do you really know anything? The limits of what each of us may independently verify are severely limited. Our evolutionary history imparts a reliance on heuristics in our thought processes-- decisions based on imperfect information that were good enough for the kind of neolithic dilemmas we faced that are far removed from the current demands placed on our brains in sorting this shit out. I think conspiracy theories appeal to our reliance on heuristics. We know at some level that shit is fucked up, hence the narrative must be a lie, and if we're being lied to, it must be for someone's benefit.

The funding for the research is wonky too. So it's not just the journals- but the researchers.

Very well written out. Or as a wise man once said...

https://repops2014.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/mark-twain-its-easier-to-fool-people-than-to-convince-them-they-have-been-fooled.jpg?w=833

when you start saying "I KNOW" you are automatically part of the problem.

That's completely correct from now on I will not use "I know" anymore because I know I'm being lied too!

Yes, people are too easily fooled into being dismissive. At the very least they could treat the weird as a conversation starter, but instead they read it and their mind glazes over and nothing comes of it.

Extremely relevant post right now, and excellently written. I think it's good to remind ourselves of this once in a while.

It's very easy to verify the Flat Earth Theory, just go to the beach and watch how ships disappear behind the horizon. You don't have to fly over Antarctica.

I'm not a flat earther but this is actually not a good example because of refraction.

Whoosh

There's the consensus narrative determined by those in power, and then there's the truth. They never agree.

I've had to put myself in check a few times lately. Thanks for the reminder and great post.

The red pill is the best. It is useful in many aspects of life especially relationships also.

"Belief is the death of intelligence." - RAW

Are you really implying that earth is flat?

Love this post. Also, when it comes to flat Earthers specifically, I've noticed an extremely strong effort to rebuke any notion of it. Whenever I see the topic brought up online, those that disagree make sure to let everyone know how "fucking stupid" they are.

I hate posts like this.

You didn't actually say anything .

Just cheap dime store philosophy.

Real conspiracies are happening and being blown open regularly. This requires facts and informed opinions. Argument and logic, not philosophical speculations.

Fuck this gaslight.

Because I know how lobbyists work, the flat earth is plausible? Really? You got me. The lobbyists are flat.

Hear Hear! If I could give you multiple upvotes I would.

We live in an age of unprecedented deception, due in large part to the advent of mass media. But make no mistake, mass deception is nothing new. No, it is ancient, it is the primary means by which the few rule the many. We are under layers and layers and layers of deceit. One trick of those who wish to keep us deceived is once a layer of deception has been proven to be just that, the next layer of deception is sold as the truth. Many, I say again many, have been trapped by this ruse. Thinking they now know the 'Truth', when in fact they are still deeply deceived, and thus stop looking. Remember, some of the best lies are wrapped in truth.

The Truth is very difficult to discover in this age. It takes a great deal of thought and patience. It is time consuming, frustrating, and often times the best we can accomplish is proving that the official narrative is a lie. Rarely can we prove absolutely what the Truth is. It is a journey fraught with wolves in sheep's clothing. (There are only a handful of people I trust in the 'Alt Media') There are those who 'think' they know the truth but are in fact still deeply deceived and spread deception as truth, with full conviction. I refer to these as the unknowing disinformation agents. The 'Religious' in particular fall into this category. The Truth can be dangerous to discover and reveal, and oftentimes is deadly. Nor is there any money in the Truth. Anyone who is 'profiting' from telling the truth, is not telling the truth... (Infowars).

Personally I only consider myself slightly less deceived that the average person, and I have been seeking the Truth for over 9 years now.

Let me second your comment. Never assume you know the Truth. Never stop digging to find the Truth.

One last thing. I do not believe we are falling into the rabbit hole. No, we are ALL in the rabbit hole. What we are trying to do is get OUT.

Thanks for this post. This place could be great if more people stopped trying to make it a hivemind.

I don't know is freedom! I don't know is ultimate knowledge, and I don't know is the purest state of being. It's unbelievable the amount of knowledge you can entertain when you just think about it and let it go, as opposed to getting swallowed by it saying that you know.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

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I really do like this, however the flat earth part seems a bit one sided. The fact is, unless you fly over Antarctica personally, you don't know if it's a globe earth. There is more than enough scientific evidence to tell you that the surface of water does not curve to 7.93 inches per mile square (more near the equator on NDTs pear earth of course). What people don't get is that if it's a globe them literally all water surfaces must curve to this.

If you accept as true flight times of commercial airlines it ought to be pretty easy to prove, if you feel like the issue is in doubt, one way or the other.

let me try it.

NY to Beijing: 13-17 hours. NY to london: 7.5 hours London to Beijing: 10 hours. Beijing to Los Angeles: 12 hours. NY to Los Angeles: 5 hours Los angeles to London: 11 hours.

If the earth is flat then:

Based on the times I would say LA would be pretty much midway between london (11 hours) and beijing(12 hours).

NY is about half way between LA and London ( 5 hours to LA, 7.5 to london). Also it takes about the combined flight time from LA to beijing and LA to NY to get from NY to Beijing.

So far so good for the flat earth model. It all checks out. Draw this out on paper to really visualize it. But here is where it breaks down.

If the earth is flat. Then the flight time from one end of our flat earth (Beijing) to the other end of our flat earth (London) should be roughly the combined times of London to NY, NY to LA, And LA to bejing. That total is 19.5 hours.

The actual flight time London to Beijing: 10 hours.

So just like that, you don't get to have a flat earth. Maybe a cylindrical earth? But not a flat one.

There is still the problem of no curvature. I don't know that we really know all the locations, flight times are heavily influenced by jet streams (random on a globe, fits perfectly on a flat map).

If it was off by say 2-3 hours I would agree but not 14.

Someone once said you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

Can you clarify how you think this is impossible on a flat earth?

sure.

This system behaves like all of these points are on a circle. If they were on a 2 dimensional flat plane you couldn't go from one end to the other in the same time (actually 2 hours less) than it takes to get from one end to the middle.

This is a good observation. I can't dig into it right now but will try to later. I'm sure there is an obvious reason for this.

Great this might turn into a pretty interesting bit of amateur science!

Or just science, no need to label it! haha

You can buy a plane ticket from S. Africa to Australia and the flight is about 12 hours, if you do the same on a flat earth it would be roughly twice that time because those two continents are on the opposite side of a flat earth map. FLAT EARTH DEBUNKED. I met a guy from S. Africa last year who has done this flight many times, it does exist, you can go to the airline website and buy this ticket.

Interesting anecdote. I haven't looked too much into flight times but I do know there are more factors than just distance. Its just that water surface does not curve to what is needed for the earth to be a globe. GLOBE EARTH DEBUNKED. I've known an engineer for a decade and he confirmed that they do not use curvature where they should.

Well, look into those flights, you'll get it then, I don't even try to use the boat over the horizon anymore as an example because of possible refraction. I know a guy who is a flat earther and I was looking for easy evidence going by his flat earth rules and this flight is a good one to explain. When I presented this fact to him, he says he would look into it, then a few weeks later I asked him what he found, he acted like he didn't know what I was talkng about, so I explained it to him again and he said he would look into it, I haven't seen him since, so it will be interesting to see what he says.

I'm curious, if it was proven that the earth is flat by amateurs, would you be able to accept that?

Ahhh, so it's Satan's old "truth is relative" argument trotted out once again to cast doubt on the absolute truth of God's only son, Jesus Christ, who told us, "I am the way, the truth and the life", in John 14:6. Once one sees past the veil of lies, then it's really a moral decision: Join the liars, or opt out of the rigged pyramid scheme called worldly success and follow Jesus Christ to eternal salvation.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." Revelation 22:14-15

There is ZERO reason to remain open to FE.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c71_1511931944

I would be equally ridiculous to claim to know it's not flat, 100%.

False. I am 100% sure the earth is not flat.

Also music. There are no right brain activities in school anymore. Right brain development =happiness.

They see a flat earth post and boom, never coming back and completely shut off to the idea of being a part of the culture here.

Well, those kinds of people aren't thinking critically, are they? Which is the point of op's post. those people want to believe they know the truth. just like you: "goofy flat earth shit is pushed on here by shills to make us look wacky and ridiculous"

did you travel far into outer space and see a round earth with your own eyes?

What's awesome to know is that we'll never have another Socrates, we get the guy who is willing to walk every step righteously while still making you question everything.

Flat Earther here. I'm not part of a CIA Psy-Op. The math of the round earth can be easily disproven. It's worth looking into and making your mind up and not blindly trusting NASA. You don't blindly trust the 9/11 comission, do you?

You can buy a plane ticket from S. Africa to Australia and the flight is about 12 hours, if you do the same on a flat earth it would be roughly twice that time because those two continents are on the opposite side of a flat earth map. FLAT EARTH DEBUNKED. I met a guy from S. Africa last year who has done this flight many times, it does exist, you can go to the airline website and buy this ticket.

fair enough. i am also open to the possibility of paradigm shifting realizations.

The funding for the research is wonky too. So it's not just the journals- but the researchers.

because im not capable of conducting the research necessary

Why? You can figure this out by asking very simple questions.

you've been lied to before.

Why would you lie to yourself? The trick is to do independent investigation and come to your own conclusions.

Instead operate from a place of "most likely" and "probably" and "best evidence suggests."

Sure be open and inquisitive but dont tell me 2+2=5

How many scientific "truths" are adapted? Evolved? Changed? A fuck ton, every single day. We learn more and more about our environment and the way things work... every single day.

To claim you know something as 100% true is irresponsible.

Dont play that card.

Sure we can have a discussion on what truths are real and what arent but its a very simple fact that the earth is not flat.

Will the sun rise tomorrow with 100% certainty? Who knows but Im willing to bet that it will. Would you like to take that bet, how much do you bet the sun will not rise tomorrow? Will you bet a few thousand bucks, since nothing is 100% true?

If you wont take that bet tell me why not.

They had proof based on their models and theorems that the universe revolved around the earth.

Thats actually not factually accurate. Look up the history of geocentrism and you will find Mars at the head of it.

Geocentric believers could not explain the orbit of mars (And a few others but Mars was the best example) It made no sense, it just did loop de loops through the sky. The orbit of mars made perfect sense if we both orbited the sun.

So the sun might not rise tomorrow and Mars might be doing giant loops through the sky but Im betting on the sun rising and Mars orbiting the sun.

Care to take that bet?

My point is: as human beings, claiming truth in anything is faulty and ridiculous.

That is getting a wee bit off topic, no?

I mean we have pictures from space... We have tests that show us the Earth isnt flat... We can observe... You can ask questions and find answers...

To think that the shape of the planet is in question is to deny these facts.

Do you deny that we can perform tests to find these answers?

Do you think that 2+2=7?

Your way of thinking holds societies back, keeps us in the dark ages where new hypothesis and paradigm shifts can land you in house arrest... like Galileo.

While I would argue that giving people platforms to tell me that 2+2=7 holds us back.

Not all theories are created equal and we can and should perform tests ourselves to verify these theories.

Go back and read what you wrote.

I've no idea. I'm not a scientist. Based on my limited understanding of basic science I think that it's extremely likely that the Earth is round and that's the assumption I operate on. However, because im not capable of conducting the research necessary,

You absolutely are capable of conducting the necessary research. What you wrote would be like saying "Bacteria is probably real but since I cant view them Ill never know for sure"

"Computers probably arent magic but since Im not capable of viewing an electron Ill never know for sure"

Well thats just defeatist. What you should be doing instead of waxing poetically about solipsistic ideas is to figure out what you can do to verify these ideas.

If I told you getting bit by a shark would hurt would you say that you dont know because you have never been bit by a shark?

This is an ever evolving process but if we all just threw our hands up and said we will never know anything for sure then where is the pressure to figure this out?