First of all, let's assume that the Kremlin did hack the DNC. What exactly happened as a result of this "hack"?

All those things you mentioned, PLUS the possibility that trump illegally colluded with Russia by obtaining those emails, and thereby better understanding the Democratic party's campaign plains.

Funny you don't even seem to consider that, at all.

Show us proof or gtfo.

We'll see what Mueller says. Oh, but that's probably not good enough for you, unless he finds nothing, then he's a god.

But if mueller does find hard evidence of collusion it should be dismissed out of hand because it was done to show Americans the truth about hildawg.

Right?

we can speculate. r/conspiracy isnt going to convict him before there is proof, but we can see which way the winds are blowing and comment

Yeah, we don't that do that here. We would never convict somebody before the entire facts are out there. NEVER.

(unless they're democrats)

How about you calm the fuck down before you make a bullshit thread calling people who don't buy your bullshit narrative babbling paranoiacs? Opps too late.

You should learn that pushing a narrative is pushing a narrative. If you don't believe that the Trump administration worked with Russia to win the election, you can sit your ass down and do your job as a mod impartially. Instead you made a bullshit thread full of transparently bias arguments to push a counter narrative in which you used the same tactics used on conspiracy theorists since forever to label people who believe differently from you as "babbling paranoiac".

At least be aware what a hypocrite you are.

"triggered like a babbling paranoiac conspiracy theorist!!!" you meant. Glad to know I hit a spot there ;)

Haha, sure thing mod. It feels all warm to know that mod allowed my triggered comment against the sub's narrative to stay up.

Mueller utterly betrayed the citizens of the US (and the world) by first botching and then covering up the Amerithrax investigation when he was head of the FBI. Why anyone would have any expectation he'll find any "truth" is beyond me.

Show us proof or gtfo. Conspiracy theorists are lambasted constantly for not providing proof of our claims, and instead merely providing circumstantial evidence.

This is precisely what is happened with the "collusion" conspiracy theory. No proof.

We will hold you to the same standards that you hold us.

wow that was quick

What makes Mueller's word right or wrong?
If our president's are puppets for the system that is currently in place, what makes this person, who has been entrenched in politics for a long time, more valid than a president?
Why is Obama telling people that the election of course isn't rigged, when they thought Hillary had that 98% chance of winning But once she lost, all of a sudden it's actually rigged, and throwing Russia in our faces.
Does it make sense that if Trump was actually colluding with Russia to win the election, that Trump would actually throw himself under the bus and claim that the election is rigged (which he cried about constantly)?
When Obama ran for president in the past he complained about the elections being rigged as well, but now once he's served his time it isn't possible?
What happened here, is that Obama joined the club (the club of people under control of the rich) once he became president, and now to maintain face and cover up stuff like Uranium One from leaking he had to do his part.
Do we not remember our government lying to us about WMD's in Iraq, and the ensuing wars and stuff that followed.
The CIA tools that can mimic any location anywhere on the planet? What's to say that the C.I.A. didn't "hack" the election and use their tools to make it look like it was actually Russia? Remember, all of these people behind the scenes are friends and are very likely just putting on a show for the public. The only thing that matters (to the elite who are in charge, not the politicians themselves) is that the current system stays in place, and the American population stays reigned in and remains under control of the system (which keeps the wealthy people in charge).
All I'm saying is there is a ton of data to sift through (that would skew the results), instead of just taking one corrupt politicians word for it.

What's funny is that if Mueller does find something to charge Trump with and it's not anything related to collusion with Russia but is instead some procedural violation or something from Trump's financial past, he would be wise to just walk away from filing charges.

The hysteria surrounding Russian collision has created a tinder box and if you think a bunch of liberal gay kids burning trash cans in the streets is anarchy, just wait until they impeach Trump for anything other than collusion with Russia.

The trash cans will be safe and sound.

So you are seeing violent outbursts from the right if Mueller finds Trump is a criminal?

How many riots were there when Clinton was drug through the mud due to a not answering a question about a BJ the right way and his later impeachment because of that answer?

Yeah I see major unrest if they try to charge Trump with anything other than collusion with Russia.

300 neckbeards vs the entire USMIC should be entertaining for the whole 15 minutes it lasts.

What makes you think the entire USMIC would automatically side with a coup? Are you sure you're not over confident?

We’ll put you traitors in the dirt lickety split.

LMAO, good god just listen to yourself.

RemindMe! 3 years

I will be messaging you on 2020-12-29 20:46:53 UTC to remind you of this link.

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

Bill Binney (NSA architect ) is good enough for me and he's already debunked this baloney.

Which did what? It informed the population. Why do you not want the American voters to be as informed as possible about their election process?

I used to agree with you. but its important to understand what a curated or incomplete version of the truth does. This is propaganda 101. seeing one candidates dirty laundry while not seeing another is a TACTIC.

Show us proof or gtfo.

glad to see you in favor of the mueller investigation

We will hold you to the same standards that you hold us.

Who the hell are you speaking for? Who is this "we"...like is your reddit account shared between several family members, or ...what?

All those things you mentioned, PLUS the possibility that trump illegally colluded with Russia by obtaining those emails, and thereby better understanding the Democratic party's campaign plans.

Wasn't it the DNC that worked with Russia to dig up dirt on the opposition and then used that unverified dirt to obtain a FISA warrant to get insider info? I think it was.

I'll be quite now.

Which one? "The dossier is fake because we say so" or Why did the DNC collude with the Russians" that the right has been pushing so hard.

I think it was.

You obviously think what you want to think.

Apparently so do you.

As opposed to thinking what you’re told to think. Outrageous!

Surely the media would never lie to you?

russians, not russia. it was steele dossier was definitely not sourced from the russian state. private citizens vs govt, very different things!

Muh^TM Russia!!

The only evidence for any Russian collusion was with Hillary and Obama with there millions of dollars of illegal campaign contributions and the Clinton Foundation Uranium One scandal

Clinton Foundation Uranium One scandal

$30M then another $100M, at least.

страшные русские слова!

There is a sticky position available, can we make this one?

seems partisan, though it wouldnt be unusual for this sub

If the truth be known, you probably guided yourself. If not someone is paying for gold for a shit post.

Damn you really pushed some buttons with this post. I'm enjoying reading all the comments. What a shit storm!

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

This is what disinformation looks like

No, your post.

Steve Bannon said the following this week:

“[Kushner was] taking meetings with Russians to get additional stuff. This tells you everything about Jared,”

Michael Flynn has admitted speaking with Russians about sanctions to the FBI

The Trump team has both admitted that they were and weren’t involved in the platform change in the Ukraine

There’s verifiable proof that most senior Trump officials helped spread the fake TruePundit story (with the help of agents in the NY FBI office, NYPD, Jeanine Pirro) that led to Clinton’s emails getting reopened for investigation (which subsequently led to nothing but arguably swung the election

This isn’t even getting into the financial crimes, and Trump’s personal goes to guys like Alagarov, Abramovic and Rybolev

Okay, so we’ve moved from the idea that the collision is a false narrative to “even if it was, who cares?” If Russians actively disrupted our democratic process, and we subsequently reward them on sanctions deals for their help in electing the current President, that’s a huge deal to our democracy. I don’t know how any patriotic American can see that and go “so”?

Did you “wait for all the facts” before you decided Seth Rich was the DNC leaker? Did you “wait for all the facts” in calling this narrative false? Why is your standard for proof so different here?

I’m not 100% sure on what exactly went on with this conspiracy but I’m eager to find out, isn’t it the job of a conspiracy theorist to dig deeper and seek the truth?

Do you want me to dig it up from your own post history? I very keenly remember you being a part of pushing that narrative and would be happy to find that if you want

I can also dig up all the times posts that implicate Trump got tagged as “misleading title”, “unverified accusation”, or got randomly put into contest mode as well.

It's interesting that things are only "narratives" to you when they are not what you believe.

OP just posted a new link calling it a sham too

no bias here though just waiting for the facts

is clearly exposed for a HUGE gaping bias

"See this just shows you're biased!"

Lol

Do you agree that Putin is scum? Do you concur that he murders any opposition from people in his country? Answer the fucking questions.

What does that even mean?

Just keep aggressively patting yourself on the back buddy.

If Russians actively disrupted our democratic process

Explain. Many people here would argue that you don't live in the "free democratic" society you think you live in. The DNC primaries are a great example of it.

It's so interesting that criticizing the DNC is the greatest crime known to man now.

If Russians actively disrupted our democratic process

How did they make Americans hate Hillary Clinton exactly?

No one is more hated than Trump. That's just a fact. So I don't know how a appeal to popularity helps you feel better. You're logic is fucking flawed and that's usually a symptom of a mental problem.

whoa whered the goalposts go

lol you think theyre unrelated because you dont want to see.

I don’t think you know how investigations work..

Dude if mueller isn't live streaming his investigation on twitch then it's not happening.

(Sad that I have to put an "/s" here)

shhhhh don't fuck up their narrative.

Do you really think that Hillary's email investigation (of which the second in the command of the FBI recently "resigned") "subsequently led to nothing but arguably swung the election"?

Let me know when they release the other 30,000 emails that I'm sure have nothing to see on them right?

Ironic calling someone else biased for even questioning the Russia investigation and admitting they could be wrong when you are the one who is convinced that the world would be better of had the DNC emails not been leaked...

“not accepting a MSM driven conspiracy”, which is ridiculous. There’s nothing inherently more reliable about fringe news sites, literal state propaganda like RT which gets posted here, or literal disinformation like YourNewsWire which mods refuse to ban

Thank you. The biggest issue I have with this sub is the assumption that you are smart because you reject the MSM, while blindly accepting literally anonymous shitposting

Why are you assuming any genuine user of this sub is blanket-accepting or rejecting any theory that comes up?

There are clear reasons to doubt the Russia/Trump collusion issue. The entire thing has been vetted by multiple 3 letter agencies - both in the US and abroad - and pretty much all evidence has been linked in some way to his opponent's as it has him. Unless somebody is sitting on information and Trump is being protected by the establishment, there is no smoking gun. So based on their professionalism, I doubt there is much there.

On top of this, we have the worst actors of the establishment pushing the narrative the hardest. Am I supposed to forget the years of clear corruption because Trump is such an easy target? Do I forget what lies the MSM has planted in the past?

I'll believe Trump/Russia when there is an indictment on the table and we can say for sure it is something real. Until then we are just talking about a fairy tale.

my statement was more in reference to the commonly seen 'wapo lol' or 'nyt fake news' shit posting based solely on the source of news

I see those types of comments more when it's a combination of factors - WaPo/NYT + particular topic/narrative + other factors. When you see 3-4 things line up like that, it's easier to parse through the content and what the arguments are going to be (because it doesn't change much).

Also, are you trying to say those outlets shouldnt' be criticized? especially with all the retractions they've had to make over the last year?

are you trying to say those outlets shouldnt' be criticized?

no im not trying to say that. im trying to say the dismissal of anything (really its not anything, the same people who write 'nyt lol' are happy to use the nyt in the next breath when the NYT writes something bad about an ideological rival) that comes from those sources because they came from those sources is stupid.

its part of the trump 'all negative press is fake news' attitude, which is so stupid it shouldnt have to be explained.

Who really believes all negative news is fake news tho? You seem to be hyperbolizing things to make your point by arguing extremes on the behalf of your opponent, which is plain dishonest. You are pretending that your statements are truths when they are likely not.

It’s not a hyperbole as those are not only common comments in threads that references those sources, but the president continually calls those sources fake news. You’re being disingenuous on things that can be verified.

so you're saying that these people who make these comments ONLY believe that way on all things? You're being ridiculous. talk about disingenuous...

Another disingenuous comment as that was not said nor inferred in any comment. Try again.

who? just the leader of the free world

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/828574430800539648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fhomenews%2Fadministration%2F318023-trump-any-negative-polls-are-fake-news

again, you are presenting a statement in a hyperbolic context. Do you understand what honest communication means?

Trump speaks in hyperbolic context plenty - hyperbole's been a common excuse for his lies. Does Trump understand honest communication?

are you honestly trying to compare political rhetoric to this?

hes the president of the united states...am i supposed to assume when he makes a statement he doesnt mean what he says? hes not promoting real estate or reality shows anymore, he is making policy and setting the direction of the country.

I would say actually banning CNN is a more blatantly transparent case of censorship, but whatever.

BUT THEY THREATENED TO RELEASE A REDDITORS INFO WHICH THEY OBTAINED COMPLETELY LEGALLY

So should we release your info publicly? Here? How about on 4chan? Your name, address, phone number, email? If so, let's get started.
How it was obtained is irrelevant, what matters is how it's used.

and how was it used in the case were talking about?

It wasn't, they threatened to. That's enough though, because instead of manning up and posting all your info publicly, you buckled down and came back with a weak attempt at an argument. Shows that the threat or idea of your info being publicly directed is a little off-putting, no?
Now stop making yourself look bad, and think more critically going forward.

my point is that YourNewsWire has doxxed before but CNN is banned for threatening to “doxx” someone

My argument isn’t invalid just because I didn’t jump through the hoop you asked me too. I’m not advocating doxxing, I’m arguing against double standards

CNN archive links are still allowed. And the special rules about CNN has nothing to do with CNN being "fake news" even though they are. It has to do with CNN targeting a Redditor and threatening to doxx them because the POTUS retweeted them.

what about YNW doxxing someone, would they be banned if they did?

If it was a Redditor who's crime was to be retweeted by Trump, I'm sure that they would he restricted to archived links like CNN is.

is there a uniform standard for what constitutes doxxing and therefore a restriction to archive links? Or is it only for websites who take issue with the head of the federal government inciting violence?

Lol tweeting a wrestling meme is inciting violence now.

Found the Marxist.

You do realize that Marx was an economist, right? "Cultural Marxism" is just some stupid bullshit the trump cult spouts.

Though, if you can quote his writings on linguistics in relation to culture, I would love to see it.

Cultural Marxism was a term coined by classic liberals, lmfao it has nothing to do with a Trump cult. You're a waste of time. Literally everything is Trump's fault in your eyes.

Don't let the downvotes bug you, I agree with everything you've said and some of us are still seeing through the bullshit. Keep up the good work, we need more critical thought here these days.

Looking at your post history it appears you are desperate to try and link Russia with the Trump administration, at any cost, you are blinded by your own outrage.

How am i desperate? Because I post about it a lot? I generally keep my arguments to known facts and provide sources when asked, it’s not like I’m grasping for straws here

Mate I said you meaning literally you, not the general “you” of this community, stop trying to obfuscate what I’m saying

I’m at work but I’ll be happy to dig a little bit tonight and show you some receipts

I went ahead an checked for you u/joeybulgaria...no "receipts" mate.

look at these votes.

reddit is obviously in the dump.

im curious as to how much longer these third parties are willing to pay people to comment and vote, considering how ineffective its proven to be.

Yeah, fucking weird right? Do you happen to know where I can get paid to shit on Trump and his cult? I keep doing it for free, and being told I can get paid, but no one shows me where when I ask.

Thanks in advance.

I downvoted you for free

Literally no one is doing that. It’s the bullshit the right pushes to reconcile the fact that the majority of the worlds population sees their emperor king for the sleazy traitor he is.

if you really think literally no one is doing that, i dunno what to say.

you people arent living in reality.

noone likes trump, but its plainly obvious to see whats going on here and other sites.

besides your username is anti-Clinton

That doesn't automatically mean I think Trump is a good President.

I have hated the Clinton crime family for over 25 years, Bill Clinton is an actual rapist and Hillary has a crime list longer than my arm.

Post proof nibba

Bill Clinton is an actual rapist and Hillary has a crime list longer than my arm

I think Trump is a disaster, but, objectively, I agree with this statement. Just wondering how you respond to Hillary defenders who say, but she's been investigated so thoroughly so many times and they've found nothing!

Dude you're as thirsty as they come. Maybe the next Oasis will be real, right?

the appeal to majority, telling people they are right to doubt, repeating random posts they agree with in an effort at false consensus. this stinks to me.

yeah, noticed a lot of curious things in the OP, and discussion is lively . feel free to respond to any of my posts, not sure how far your observation here can take a discussion

The perfect response. Keep it up. Don't let yourself be muted.

I have too. Lots of people are strongly interested in this. Why is every conspiracy site on the planet now strongly pro-Trump? Godlikeproductions, Above Top Secret... It's super strange.

There's a lot of theories, but you can't talk about them on conspiracy sites without getting banned or attack.

Strange days.

I love it when a top mod of a subreddit can trigger so many people, people that claim we are all nuts and lunatics, but they have to be respectful of that very fact else the ban hammer, but still post en mass to push a narrative.

Gentlemens Guide indeed

What does that mean, exactly? How much participation is one allowed in any given thread before that participation is deemed to be suspicious?

How the fuck is this dude a mod? Can't outright call someone a shill so he not-so-subtly does it. Because commenting in a thread is sooo suspicious.

Meanwhile he pollutes the sub with bullshit all day

A mod on /r/conspiracy has a top posting saying "stop looking behind the curtain accept my narrative." and no one seems to see the issue there

which mod tagged the dossier post as having no evidence?

Why wasn't that tag ever used prior?

It doesn't matter? It was a mistake?

You all changed it to hoax/raid afterwards and left it at that. Was that a mistake too?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5n90h5/reports_allege_trump_has_deep_ties_to_russia

Doesn't matter I guess!

This has been brought up numerous times before and you haven't done anything about it. What's the point in removing a flair 11 months later? You're a mod here, do what you signed up for and stop trying to tell people how to feel about a certain conspiracy theory.

Now the purveyors of manufactured outrage like yourself can shut up about that post.

It's not going to happen again.

Move...the fuck...on...................

Wow. People have been here for less than this.

Partially proven with zero proven falsehood dossier = "HOAX" with no evidence...

Why?

There were multiple changes to that dossier post. AAT was one mod who changed it, a couple times I think.

Your accidental transparency is honestly astounding..

The reason why conspiracy theories happen is because there is usually evidence for such claims. In the Russia case the evidence doesn't exist. They have a pre-determined conclusion and have been looking for the last year for evidence to backup this conclusion. But so far it has failed to materialize. This is exactly what happened with the Iraq had WMDs narrative also pushed by the media that lead to the death of maybe half a million or more people. The phony Russian narrative is an obvious co d'etat by the deep state and their people in the media to overthrow a democratically elected government.

There was no hacking. There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.There was no hacking.

Terror! Terrorists! Terror! Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!Terror! Terrorists! Terror!

Amen! Finally people are seeing the light after being hoodwinked for far too long.

I doubt OP was ever a believer in Russiagate. Most people I see doubting it have never remotely believed in it.

You say that as if whether or not someone believed in something at one point in anyway reflects on the validity of said subject given its own merits. Sorry people aren't buying it anymore ;(

That's clearly not my claim.

You clearly missed my point. Doesn't matter if people believed in bullshit at one point or another if it is in fact bullshit.

Right right. Anyone who disagrees with you is a shill.

Ey, more baseless presumptuousness, it practically fuels me at this point.

Nope. You pretty much covered it.

There was never any real reason to believe it. The "17 intelligence agencies" that were never allowed to examine the servers say the Russians hacked the servers. No matter how much MSM tried there still is no convincing evidence.

Many of us never believed in Russia-gate because it was clearly horseshit right out the gate.

I was referring to his examples of comments from the r/worldnews post.

The last time one of these stories was posted, I was one of the guys making those types of comments. I believe in Russiagate, but not in the claims of a jailed Russian. The latter is the sentiment in that thread.

Oh sorry, I misunderstood what you meant.

I just never believed any of it. I am naturally skeptic and there were too many holes and changes in the narrative that felt false immediately to me.

Why would anyone wholeheartedly believe anything until it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt? I don't understand that train of thought. Suspicions, theories, that's all well and good but hard evidence should be required before you buy into an idea.

Most of the conspiracies shared here don't have hard proof backing them up. That's sort of the nature of a conspiracy.

Jimmies are going to be well and truly rustled! I think we might need a little contest mode for this one.

It didn’t take long. Great post!

Oh yes, the girlies at Top Minds have picked it up.

First of all, let's assume that the Kremlin did hack the DNC. What exactly happened as a result of this "hack"? Well, the DNC was exposed for the corrupt abomination that it is.

American voters became more informed about the election and the election process as a result. The "hack" resulted in more transparency and more informed voters.

I agree that there is some truth to 'exposing the DNC' and its' practices.

As for how informed the American public became, can you say with certainty that the information provided by the 'hackers' was not manipulated? Not so much the contents, but perhaps in the way it was leaked? Selective information dissemination maybe. I personally still view that as an attempt to influence the American electorate.

But, to be fair, the same attempt to influence was happening on both sides. The Access Hollywood tape is a prime example of selectively releasing information in an attempt to influence voters. I think the real question, and potential scandal, would be whether or not the influence was being applied by outside (foreign) entities as opposed to inside (domestic) players.

Selective information dissemination

Maybe if they weren't a bunch of now proven fraudsters and criminals, there wouldn't have been a problem

Was it the selectively disseminated information that provides proof? I'm not sure your argument makes sense in the context of 'selective information dissemination'.

I understand that it is going to be difficult to converse with you as you are starting from a 'Fuck the Clintons' perspective, but I'm going to try.

proven fraudsters and criminals

Is the proof you are referring to gleaned directly from the leak?

Well said.

Which MSM are you talking about? Fox or CNN? Because plenty of people on fox don't believe in the Russia conspiracy. So if you don't want to believe the MSM, the. Maybe there is something to this conspiracy. After all, 4 dudes from Trumps campaign have now gone down on federal charges. Trump is already preparing to discredit Flynn if he comes out with anything damning against him. Trump surrounded himself with people trying to connect him with Russia. Wikileaks was in contact with Trumps campaign. There's some serious shit going on and people would rather be discussing what some random ass LARP on 4chan has to say about Anderson Cooper.

This is why people don't take the conspiracy community seriously. People only choose to believe in the theories that already fit their worldview. So any Trump supporters here will never believe Trump or his campaign ever did anything wrong. They will cry "where is the evidence?" While pushing a litany of theories that have absolutely no evidence.

People have been whining about how all this is fake for a year now. Since then, 4 guys have gone down on criminal charges.

But sure, we are too smart to believe any of that bullshit because the dumb face MSM talks about it. What does Q have to say about this?

People only choose to believe in the theories that already fit their worldview. So any Trump supporters here will never believe Trump or his campaign ever did anything wrong. They will cry "where is the evidence?" While pushing a litany of theories that have absolutely no evidence.

well said. look at this lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7mnjb7/the_extraordinary_russian_meddlingcollusion/drv8u6q/

posted right after this

Show us proof or gtfo. Conspiracy theorists are lambasted constantly for not providing proof of our claims, and instead merely providing circumstantial evidence.

This is precisely what is happened with the "collusion" conspiracy theory. No proof.

We will hold you to the same standards that you hold us.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7mnjb7/the_extraordinary_russian_meddlingcollusion/drv82af/

There's plenty of evidence. The repeated lying about contacts from Russia. Surrounding himself with people with ties to the Kremlin. Telling Lester Holt he fired an fbi director because he was looking into Russia. Multiple campaign members being indicted during the Russian investigation. His dumbass son trying to set up a meeting with Russian officials for Intel on Hilary Clinton

i know. its right in your face.

thats why the only people denying it is at least a possibility, or that its fishy and worthy of a special prosecutor are zealots who cant see past their own confirmation bias. I get people who think maybe it doesnt go to the top, or that they took the help but didnt 'collude'. but we see a ton of people on here who say russia didnt even try to install their guy in the presidency.

I actually like those guys, theyre so unsubtle they make identifying them easy

4 guys have gone down on criminal charges.

gone down as in gone to prison or just been indicted !?

plead guilty

Technically Manafort and Gates plead innocent, though with the mountain of evidence I'd bet they will go down in the. However, the trial isn't for months and it'll probably take till the em do year to close out.

so....where is the evidence? so far i have seen none. fuck trump.

To be fair with you, I actually agree with what you've suggested here, it isn't that the 'conspiracy community' has a problem with rigid world views.

It's that perhaps all of the west has this problem. There was an unrelated article about a potential mastodon site found in California on the latimes site(http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-americas-first-humans-20170426-story.html) and the majority of the article was about the clashing of one group of scientist's findings against the dogmatic worldviews the 'established' scientists have.

It's the same bs. The tv has diluted the ability to communicate and accept what perhaps does not fit a world view. But it's also a humanity issue too. People don't like having their world views trampled upon and they don't like looking like fools. Egotistical and narcissistic certainly, especially within the conspiracy community and the latter mentioned scientific community although for different psychological reasons.

If you take a step backward from it, from yourself and your ego, if you're able, you might see what I see. It's lunacy! Humanity behaves in a very insane manner at times. Imagine how we might look or appear to look to an outside observer? Especially if they looked at the tv, what human beings spend so much time looking at. Just insanity.

Good post. This all started with the deflecting claim that Russia hacked the DNC and Podesta's emails that exposed their own crimes and corruoption in their own words. I think it is very telling that Mueller and his team have never contacted the publisher, WikiLeaks, of the emails for their side of things.

Given the revelations of McCabe, Strzok and others, this whole thing looks like a farce that is still ongoing. Imho, it is bordering on or has crossed into sedition territory.

Exactly the amount of time people have said, "the Russian collision is the perfect story for a sub like this why is this the one conspiracy theory you don't believe" has been outrageous.

The fact that this kind of logic is a popular upvoted opinion makes my head hurt. I guess it really goes down to our education which programs children at a young age to conform. In kindergarten what happens when you literally step out of the lunch line or do anything "wrong." This kind of mentality has a strong effect on the subconscious that lasts for a lifetime and I'd argue its by design to create a powerless masses who don't even realize none of there thoughts are there own Brave New world style

You argued against this logic well. First of all the idea that everyone sub believes every conspiracy theory here is sub is outrageous to begin with. Second of all assuming that is true (it's not) they are essentially saying, "you believe or accept every conspiracy theory except for this one" not realizing the clear irony that they, blindly refuse and criticize ever conspiracy and label anyone who agrees as insane except for this.

A conspiracy sub mod calling people who believe in a conspiracy babbling paranoiacs is pretty fucking nuts.

sex/race/class are way more important than the kids we starve and bomb in the middles east and the trillions missing at the 5 star pedogon for jets that can't fly

People aren't otherwise rational. I know it seems like the world is somehow crazier than normal, but the actual noteworthy thing is how many people reject the media narrative. People are always stupid and always have been.

I find reading Socrates apology helps. It reminds us that people have always fallen for stupid, sophist bullshit. Its literally the way of the world.

I don't believe it will, or that it even can. I think reality is kind of heartbreaking. It's just too much for most people to accept and so they hide behind delusion.

I don't, but I am miserable most of the time. I'm not sure I have the right to try to open people's minds and get them to think the way I do, because what then?

Why is it that every other sort of conspiracy, from the possibility of the government faking an alien invasion to rampant sexual abuse in Hollywood and among the world elites, can be discussed by everyone, but anything Trump/Russia is immediately dismissed by so many people?

When it comes to Clinton or Obama, even the slightest connection brings on a swarm of different theories, none of which would be good for them if proven true. But when it comes to the possible collusion between Trump and Russia, we need to wait until we have more information, or it is all just lies.

This entire post is just saying that it's MSM propaganda and shifts any negative light away from Trump and Russia and onto the DNC, without any real substance. I don't understand why this one conspiracy theory is off limits because it's so obviously fake.

and onto the DNC, without any real substance

Like the post says

let's assume that the Kremlin did hack the DNC. What exactly happened as a result of this "hack"? Well, the DNC was exposed for the corrupt abomination that it is.

Let's go one further and say Trump himself hacked them himself, all he did was expose them for the criminals that they are.

Let's go one further and say Trump himself hacked them himself, all he did was expose them for the criminals that they are.

Then Trump would have committed a crime. Committing crimes and discovering shady and/or unethical things (that were not crimes) doesn't make the hacking any less criminal.

“I didn’t do it, but even if I did, you deserved it”

Well 'unethical' and 'criminal' are two different things.

They are. So the criminal act of hacking is no less criminal due to the hack bringing to light unethical actions (as the poster I replied to was seeming to imply)

Yes, the point was 'criminal' is a pretty weak argument morally.

Look, you're distracting again, moving the goal posts. Dismissing the wrongdoing and meddling of Trump/Russia. We can all agree the DNC does shady shit, which is discussed ad nauseam, but similar to what you just did, any mention of what Trump and Russia has done and is doing is "fake news/propaganda/MSM lies".

So willing to dismiss the collusion between Trump/Russia because it further exposed DNC corruption. Can't you see past party lines yet? This is a non-partisan issue.

Dismissing the wrongdoing and meddling of Trump/Russia.

Show me the evidence....

... Multiple indictments part way through a DOJ investigation isn't even an inkling of evidence to you? The witness testimony and comments from the administration (Stone, Bannon, Flynn, Trump, etc.) aren't enough for you? The dirty loans/property sales with Russian Oligarchs on record are just happenstance?

Many more evidence-less and baseless stories are pandered every day, but a DOJ investigation on the subject somehow isn't even hinting at evidence?

Maybe another conspiracy is why a 2 month old account is defending/deflecting the Trump/Russia ties...

Greetings from Mother Russia!

Yeah that all worked for the dopes who were adults and fooled by the MSM and government to go throw their and their sons bodies to the sand flies for fucking OIL, but not us.

Those agencies hold NO candle to truth without sources and real evidence. Sorry.

... you realize the CIA and DOJ are not the same thing, right? Different parts of the US Fed Govt? It wasn't the DOJ recommending war in the Middle East.

Also, what's more a more reliable or 'real' source in your mind? Are financial records, email records, phone and communication records not real enough? Or would they only be 'real' if they came from non-MSM sources like InfoWars?

Uhh... the DOJ has actively defended the war and those who perpetrated it, those who beat the drums for it. Saleh vs Bush.

All agencies are culpable for the narrative spinning of the elite oligarchs in control. There are no safe havens. Even more so under Trump.

I don't watch or read infowars, whatever you do with it. I don't consume right-wing drivel.

So now you're conflating two issues, the pretense for the Iraw/Afghan wars and aftermath. That case was thrown out as citizens cannot file a class action lawsuit against their sovereign nation, another nation-state has to do that. It's international law...

What source is considered 'real' if you've taken out every governmental body/agency (culpable), all MSM, and it seems most media sources?

When there is sensible and substantial links between Trump, Russia, WikiLeaks, the DNC leak, etc., then maybe people on /r/conspiracy will take it seriously.

And is you're on this sub, then you should know that just about everything the MSM spouts is BS.

sensible and substantial links

ROFL, I've seen the material pandered here, and the majority is far from sensible and substantial. But that isn't the point, the point is the goal posts are different based on the subject matter. For 90% of topics, no 'hard proof' is needed, but for some reason, anytime Trump/Russia is brought up, the shills come out and claim 'no evidence!'.

Oh I know how the media inflates, sensationalizes, and illogically makes certain stories. But if you actually look at source material and read the context, there is tons of eye opening material brought forth, from money laundering with Trump properties and Manafort, to dirty loans with Kushner, to coordination on with Wikileaks, there's ample motive and means, the pieces are all there.

Yeah I'm sure Trump has done a lot of corrupt things; what you think the Clintons don't? That's just how the elites operate. But the idea that Russia somehow colluded with Trump to rig the elections literally has no evidence to support it; or anything to do with WikiLeaks being somehow involved.

Yeah I'm sure Trump has done a lot of corrupt things; what you think the Clintons don't?

When did I ever say anything about the Clintons or in any way suggest I support them or their actions. Quick deflecting AGAIN.

That's just how the elites operate.

And we have a chance to take down some of those. Why are you still cheering for and defending the elites?

But the idea that Russia somehow colluded with Trump to rig the elections literally has no evidence to support it; or anything to do with WikiLeaks being somehow involved.

I... just can't even fathom anymore. Always the fallback, even though it has been brought up multiple times and is super easy to google. Look at other comments, you're willfully being blind to the subtext and context of what's going on if you're still thinking there's 'no evidence' of Trump/Russian ties.

What deflecting? Are you unable to follow an argument? Newsflash: All politicians get involved in corruption. Shock. Horror. It's not news. Tell me WTF any of this has to do with alleged collusion:

...from money laundering with Trump properties and Manafort, to dirty loans with Kushner...

NOTHING. That's deflection. You are the one bringing in irrelevant material to the question of collusion, and that's what I was addressing. You got lost in your own argument right there.

And yes, we've seen you're 'evidence', and we conclude that it is non-existent. I've seen all those arguments a million times, repeating them doesn't make them any less rubbish.

Actually, there's more evidence it was a leak. Now I'll sit back and watch you deny that one.

What deflecting? Are you unable to follow an argument?

We're talking about Trump/Russian connections and collusion and you deflect to 'Isn't HRC bad too?'. The definition of deflection, who gives a fuck about HRC, this discussion is on Trump/Russia and how dirty those connections are, HRC is a different discussion all together.

Tell me WTF any of this has to do with alleged collusion

Russian money laundering? Property laundering? Manafort, the campaign manager, and his Russian ties? That is DIRECTLY what the discussion is about (Trump/Russia connections and collusion).

And yes, we've seen you're 'evidence', and we conclude that it is non-existent. I've seen all those arguments a million times, repeating them doesn't make them any less rubbish.

God, it's like talking to a brick wall. What happened to users here being open minded and actually thinking logically instead of thinking based on political party lines? Can't you see past the red and blue? If you're going to be a political hack and not be open minded, maybe T_D is more suited for your silo'd thinking.

Actually, there's more evidence it was a leak. Now I'll sit back and watch you deny that one.

What the fuck are you getting on about? What was I denying before? You're literally the only one denying things and deflecting away from the topic of the thread. JFC you trolls are annoying.

Money laundering is connected to the DNC leaks how? Please explain how some ordinary corruption/connections between some Trump people and some Russian people has any bearing whatsoever on whether the Russians had anything to do with the leaked e-mails. You people are flinging as much shit as you can, hoping something sticks.

How many times does your shitposting 'evidence' of a hack on /r/conspiracy have to debunked and rebutted before you shills learn your lesson and stfu. Some of us are tired of the same old shitposting over and over of weak 'evidence. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat lies it doesn't make them true.

Money laundering is connected to the DNC leaks how? Please explain how some ordinary corruption/connections between some Trump people and some Russian people has any bearing whatsoever on whether the Russians had anything to do with the leaked e-mails.

Oh look, deflection and goal post moving. You realize the DNC hack/leak isn't the only thing being investigated right? The purpose from day one of the DOJ investigation was "Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections including exploring any links or coordination between Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign and the Russian government." Which does include money laundering, embezzlement, collusion, etc.

How many times does your shitposting 'evidence' of a hack on /r/conspiracy have to debunked and rebutted before you shills learn your lesson and stfu. Some of us are tired of the same old shitposting over and over of weak 'evidence. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat lies it doesn't make them true.

Keep parroting that partisan shit. Keep burying your head deeper up Trump's ass. You eat up Trump's propaganda as quickly as you down those Cokes, don't you?

So you really can't follow an argument. I get it now. We're both replying to this comment, which is specifically about the email leak.

You are the one who threw all that irrelevant shit into the conversation, and when I dismissed your irrelevant shit-flinging, you accused me of deflecting.

And now you're deflecting again from the original discussion of the email leaks by more irrelevant crap into the discussion.

And I'm not 'eating Trump's propaganda', I just refuse to believe the propaganda that the deep state puts out through the MSM, unlike a certain interlocutor in this discussion. Who's parroting partisan shit, I wonder.

Oh, and feel free to go through my comment history to see if you can find any instance where I ever said anything in support of Trump. Good luck to you in your righteous quest, brother, I eagerly await your results.

Oh look, you're narrowing again (moving goal posts), can you not read the main title of the thread? Did you not read the actual content of the thread or the title? Scroll up and read the post. Or you just want to narrow down and move the goalposts to fit what you want the narrative to be about?

And now you're deflecting again from the original discussion of the email leaks by more irrelevant crap into the discussion.

Again, scroll up, the 'original discussion' is on Russian meddling/collusion, not solely emails.

And I'm not 'eating Trump's propaganda', I just refuse to believe the propaganda that the deep state puts out through the MSM, unlike a certain interlocutor in this discussion. Who's parroting partisan shit, I wonder.

Where am I parroting partisan shit? Or is anything against your narrative 'partisan shit'? Have I once defending the DNC, HRC, or any democrats? No I haven't, I'm simply calling out the hacks who's only response to Russian/Trump meddling/collusion is 'no evidence' when there is a plethora of evidence if you just open your eyes.

Oh, and feel free to go through my comment history to see if you can find any instance where I ever said anything in support of Trump. Good luck to you in your righteous quest, brother, I eagerly await your results.

2 month old account? Likely an alt or a new account after a ban, so why waste my time?

Why do you reply to a comment if you don't want to discuss that comment? If you wanted to discuss something more broadly then bounce, no one is detaining you to comment on my comment.

Right, I gather you gave up looking for any pro-Trump comments. Lol, keep up the good shilling, bro.

I was replying to that comment while discussing it, the context of it, and the previous post that he replied to. Come on, how narrow sighted are you?

Ah there we go, the second fall back to 'no evidence'! Calling other people shills, like I'm a paid actor or something. Maybe more people can just think logically and that's why the majority have a different opinion of things than you?

Removed. Rule 10.

Dismissing the wrongdoing and meddling of Trump/Russia.

Where's the evidence.

Which part of the conspiracy specifically do you want to see evidence for?

What exactly is the conspiracy?

It started out as Trump illegally colluding with Russia to have them interfere in the election and then Trump would be under Putin's thumb.

Then it was 'Russia bought misleading political ads on Facebook.'

What do you believe the conspiracy to be?

That the Trump team both conspired to work with Russia to get Trump elected, which exists in the context of Trump’s real estate ventures and other business being fronts for laundering money from various criminal enterprises including but not limited to Russians

It includes things like sanctions negotiations and platform changes, computer crimes, money laundering, contracts for nuclear reactors, financial crimes including money laundering and tax fraud, and of course the larger cover up of this conspiracy

Okay so then where is the evidence of this? Those are very specific accusations.

is there any one specific accusation you’d like me to find evidence for? Really there’s no reason you can’t do your own research so I’m doing this as an act of good faith participation.

Or maybe one individual you’d like me to find evidence for?

Really there’s no reason you can’t do your own research

For a guy that demands "source?!!" nonstop on this sub you sure have a different standard for yourself.

How about evidence of Trump's illegal business fronts in Russia in order to launder money and have Russia interfere in the election on his behalf, as you said.

I never said anything about his illegal business fronts in Russia, but of his business fronts used to launder Russian money (with the help of Bayrock and people like Felix Sater)

You can read more on that here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-22/trumps-ditch-soho-hotel-but-not-robert-mueller

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you think is evidence of anything in that article.

Mueller is examining "suspicious financial activity" in Trumplandia involving "Russian operatives," according to the Washington Post. 

The Washington Post's article refers to anonymous sources claiming that Mueller is potentially investigating Trump associates and then possibly Trump himself for obstruction of justice.

It says literally nothing about Trump Soho being a front or Mueller looking into it.

This is the kind of stupid bullshit I'm talking about. You make these bold, specific claims and then can't remotely back them up.

So let me be clear - I link an article from Business Insider that cites WaPo, and your argument is that the WaPo story doesn’t say anything about Trump SoHo?

The article I linked talks about it extensively, why are you being intellectually dishonest?

They use it as a source that Mueller is looking at financial crimes and then pull out of thin air the extrapolation that it includes the Trump Soho.

And that's your evidence of Trump's financial collusion with Russia to have them interfere in the election?? Lol

No, it’s evidence that Trump SoHo is allegedly tied to laundering Russian money. That’s what you asked me to provide evidence for and that’s what the article does

Here's some good info on the Russian money laundering.

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/557162777/what-is-money-laundering-and-why-does-it-matter-to-robert-mueller

"Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties," wrote Craig Unger, in a long feature for The New Republic.

"Whatever his knowledge about the source of his wealth, the public record makes clear that Trump built his business empire in no small part with a lot of dirty money from a lot of dirty Russians."

Rodgers of the Center for the Advancement of Public Integrity says it may not be Trump who should necessarily worry about money laundering charges at this point. The president may have good reason to fear, according to some reports, but the person in the most pressing legal jeopardy could be Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

I think it's the amount of lies the media got caught spinning, In a book someone states the Russia thing was started when she lost IIRC. Me it's all the lies the media put fourth though, I actually almost believed the 17 agencies at the time.

Fool me once....

WikiLeaks lied on Reddit

Kim DotCom lied about having Seth Rich info

Trump Jr lied about what the Trump Tower meeting was about

Trump says he doesn’t watch TV because he’s too busy and live tweets Fox and Friends regularly

Q lied about Huma being indicted

What about all of those, should we not believe them anymore?

Did I fall for Kim? No, did I follow larps like Q? No (interesting though), I don't even have fox cause I'm from Quebec. Anymore assumptions? I simply don't like the media and the clintons for reasons. What's your point? Just don't believe the shit you just posted and you'll be fine?

no, my point is that dismissing all news because it comes from a mainstream media source is fucking dumb. Yes they’ve made errors before but they’ve also got a ton right, particularly with this investigation.

Flynn was only fired because his wrongdoings got to WaPo, same with Manafort. They were spot on about the Trump Tower meeting. Question a source fine but assuming something is false because it comes from a place like WaPo or NYT is ridiculous especially in a world where sites like YourNewsWire peddle literal fake news

If an article comes out with a legitimate source and reason, of course I'd accept it. But unnamed sources for over a year and nothing yet, I'm not getting my hopes up every single time I see a Russia/Trump post make it to the Front Page.

When it's official sure, but this circus show has pushed a lot of people away. . It be like if Fox News said everyday Clinton is going to prison, after 1 year Liberals would say "you guys fucking retarted, over 1 year and nothing yet?"

Hope that clears it up.

Fox News talked about the birth certificate and impeaching Obama for treason his entire Presidency.

And how annoying was that for you? You just gave a perfect example of what I meant.

It was more laughable than anything because unlike the Russia investigation there was no evidence, witnesses or even an investigation at all.

Exactly how they feel. Didn't that sherif Shapiro or Joe or something make a big deal of the birth certificate?

I agree that the Russia story has gone nowhere, and it's laughable. Remember that time some joker put out laughably fake emails trying to make it look like Trump Jr. was directly meeting with someone sent by the Kremlin offering dirt on Hillary. As if they would be that retarded to just do it out in the open.

Just all fake news, and yet people still fall for it.

I hope your being sarcastic.

Thats funny that you think the media keeps making errors. The media knows exactly what they are doing and it's a coordinated effort to spread a false narrative.

You can prove that Kim Dotcom lied?

Yes to the first question

No to the second but you could make that argument about literally anyone. Which specific sealed indictments can be linked to her though?

My point being you can't prove a negative. Regarding the dozens upon dozens of sealed indictments in DC, can't prove what any of those are either, unless they're unsealed.

Sure, but is there any evidence which would imply it?

Of course you can’t disprove a negative but if you believe something because it can’t be disproven do I have a can of snake oil to sell you..

Is it oil made from a snake? Or oil used to grease up snakes.

It's not off limits. Like the poster said, we are interested in the truth here. The hack/leaks revealed truth. Therefore, and I'm speaking for myself here, I am on the side of the hackers/leakers - and I don't care what nationality or government they were.

Why they released it is important to think about to.

Motives should be part of the discussion too.

Did you vote in theast election?

No one is dismissing this! We'll merely calling for more information before we can justify brandishing the pitchforks.

Right, but why does this one conspiracy need more information when anything else needs next to nothing? Someone sends an email about pizza and all of the sudden they're a pedophile according to this subreddit. But this one, for whatever reason, needs more information before anyone makes any judgement. It's almost hypocritical.

I literally stated the (fact) that the DNC rigged the primaries and you refer to that as having no real substance?

I honestly can't fathom your logic, can you attempt to justify this?

You're right, they did rig the election, but that has nothing to due with the possible collusion between Trump and Russia. You're acting like Trump couldn't have worked with Russia to win the election because the DNC is a steaming pile of shit.

Again, it's incredible that you've received so many upvotes for such an obvious untruth.

I never said this conspiracy theory was off limits.

I never said that you said this conspiracy is off limits. What I was implying is that so many people but so much time and effort into telling people that this one conspiracy theory is fake, made up, not true, all lies, when so many other theories are pushed to the front of this subreddit with substantially less evidence to back them up.

What makes you so convinced that everyone here believes in pizzagate?

Cause he has no idea that pizza gate is a cover up about pedo gate. The real conspiracy.

What better way to distract from powerful pedos than a conspiracy about powerful pedos.

Exactly. The real pedos just straight kill kids. Sexual shit is obviously heinous and still horrible. But the people behind the Podestas and others involved. Pedo murderers.

Lol this sub is so far gone it's too funny. Did you all forget about the Jesuits?

You just posted another article 15 minutes ago about how this entire Trump Russia thing is a scam. Stop pretending you're waiting for more information. You've clearly already made up your mind here.

Give me a break dude. This was the headline you chose. It's not even the original title of the article.

"The Entire Trump-Russia Probe Is a Sham: This is not about Russia hacking the US election but rather about attempting to tie up former Trump associates with charges that have nothing to do with the election or even Trump in general with the hope that they will eventually turn on the president."

I'm not trying to attack you. But come on dude. You're trying to tell people in this post that you're keeping your mind open and waiting for all the facts. Dude. This is obviously not the case.

Why are there so many upvoted deleted comments today?

This sub is being padded more by the day. Not worth the stress to be honest.

Don't put yourself in stressful situations?

Do I look like OP?

I don't know. What does OP look like?

The person I replied too, obviously. L2Reddit son.

L2Reddit. Is that a code for something? Eltworeddit... Never heard it before.

Pitchforks are OK for pizzagate but not for trump/russia. Which already has exponentially more evidence than pizzagate.

The double standard on display here is breathtaking

i know theyre hard to find (lol) but check out the pizzgate thread buried at the top of the front page today

Is it possible to cite the entire corpus of this sub?

I figure it's just because that conspiracy is, like, /adjusts hipster glasses/ sooo Mainstream.

Cynicism aside, I think a lot of people on this sub are rightly skeptical whenever a narrative is being pushed by numerous powerful mainstream actors. Could still be true—but it warrants a skeptical lens.

Right. It's like no one remember a pre Iraq war. How every bad guy in a movie was a Muslim, how the media pushed fear mongering about Muslims and terrorists, which reached a fever pitch after 9/11. Then it was all about "WMDs" and terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, on every news outlet. Now it's like "If you're worried about terrorism you're an Islamophobe! But those Russians on the other hand..." Russia, Russia Russia, Russia....

how the media pushed fear mongering about Muslims and terrorists, which reached a fever pitch after 9/11.

Sort of like how Fox news is pushing a pushing fear mongering about Mueller right now. You can't say this is a MSM conspiracy, because one side is desperately trying to deflect from it.

And the other "side" is pushing its own narrative. You don't get how it works apparently.

Uh Fox News is Mainstream Media. It's the most watched cable news station for several years now.

Eh, a lot of terrorist in 90's movies were former Soviet Bloc countries.

Glad to see the point went right over your head.

9/11 was in 2001. WTF does 90's movies have to do with his point?

Maybe it’s because Russia’s actually, you know , made itself relevant in recent years by invading a sovereign nation after the people of that country gave its puppet politician the boot? Then sanctions were placed by the US on Russia for this. If Trump talked about relaxing those sanctions before becoming president, even by proxy, he’s guilty of treason.

Exactly. All of them singing the same tune as loud and as hard as they can makes this very suspicious.

So if 9/11 Truth became mainstream, then suddenly, /r/conspiracy would accept the current version?

Yes, if 9/11 became mainstream, then a lot of people would be skeptical of why all of a sudden powerful people are admitting to it. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the conspiracy was false--just that there is an added layer that would need to be analyzed.

But the vast majority on /r/conspiracy are entirely dismissive of Trump-Russia and actively seek to block any discussion of it (because it goes against their political beliefs).

The amount of anti trump, pizza, and Seth downvotes /name calling / ridicule is at unprecedented levels. I absolutely disagree with you.

Considering the main reason /r/conspiracy is so deeply rooted with t_d is because around october/nov following the election as someone who wasn't openly democrat meant following news relating to wikileaks, podesta emails, asking unpleasant questions like "did DNC really throw an election against Bernie?" "Is there really a CTR presence on reddit and if so, how prevalent is it?" which was openly dismissed on the default subs. I browse both t_d and conspiracy became literally the only other place on these boards where I can find skeptical minds.

I used to engage in Trump-Russia discussions and pizzagate and etc. but I honestly feel discouraged by what I perceive as a willingness to associate anyone who follows t_d as a partisan that's unwilling to discuss anything. Eventually I just started to feel like shilling is just too prevalent here (especially the pizzagate threads) and nowadays I don't comment too often at all.

One thing I genuinely don't see is this dismissive attitude towards Trump-Russia. It's definitely not a "vast" majority like you hyperbolize. You already have a vast majority following this "theory" on every default news sub as well as politics, but you won't be satisfied until /r/conspiracy is your echochamber.

Weird how "skeptical" means believing in the craziest things with the least evidence.

You know, without elaborating on what you're hinting at, your comment just boils down to baiting and being disrespectful. Fair enough pal, I'm sure your critical thinking skills are vastly superior

Agree man. The amount of disrespectful dickheads looking to ridicule rather than discuss is mind boggling.

Lol last night I had 5 upvotes and that guy had 3 downvotes. Looks like ctr came through in the 9-5.

I mean honestly, does that even seem natural to anyone? The guy makes a clear cut dickhead comment, gets a reasonable and respectful response yet I'm in downvote hell?

Fox News was pushing the Seth Rich story so hard they ran with a story that turned out to be entirely fake... yet that's still a favorite one around here. And Fox News is probably the biggest cable news outlet there is.

I guessed this would be top comment, and it barely makes sense. There's an equally large population that simply believes whatever they hear about trump.

This entire post is just saying that it's MSM propaganda and shifts any negative light away from Trump and Russia and onto the DNC, without any real substance.

It's pretty ironic for you to say that. You didn't address a single specific thing the post said, just disingenuously summed it up and dismissed it.

Why is it that there is a constant influx of accounts less than a month old all parroting the same partisan, dismissive viewpoint? Like, for example, you.

Ask Bill Binney (NSA architect ). Trump \ Russia is a conspiracy alright. It's a conspiracy of fabrication by Crowdstrike and the DNC.

The problem with the Russiagate narrative being pushed so hard right now is not that it is untrue. It seems entirely plausible that Russians tried to influence our elections. The problem with the narrative is that it gives the Democrats an absolute pass on doing any inward reflection after losing so hard. Rather than talk about what really led to this absolutely unforced error of an election, they are following the exact same path that led them to ruin in 2016.

If we expect liberals to win in 2018 or 2020 just because Donald Trump is being Donald Trump, we are probably doomed to the same fate we suffered the last time we used that logic.

It's also some terrible sleight-of-hand that they want us focused on the social media ("fake news") aspect of the story rather than the legitimate hacking that may have occurred re: voting machines, voter registrations, and election software. It serves to divide us ("look at those dumbasses who fell for Russian propaganda on Facebook and voted for Trump") and distracts us from the real vulnerability of our current voting system, a discussion we should seriously be having if you don't trust Russia.

IDK why you're being downbloated, but you're spot on. I read an article in my state's newspaper about a Hilary quote saying that she'd like to get rid of the Electoral College completely. Pair that with taking away voting rights, mandatory IDing, identification theft/hijacking the diseased's identities to provide votes (Seth Rich type of shit) and much more. We have bigger fish to fry, y'all.

Because those are conspiracies that the elites are trying to cover up

These are conspiracies the elites MADE up

Given that Fox News, the most mainstream of mainstream medias, is against this, and is basically run by the rich elite, shouldn't that be evidence that the elites are trying to stop this from coming out based on your logic?

The reason people automatically disbelieve the Russian collusion story is because they distrust the media and establishment politicians.

Whatever narrative they push onto the people, the people have become used to concluding that the opposite is most likely true.

If you keep crying foul, why would you be surprised when no one believes you any more?

But how do you explain the Trump team admitting key pieces of evidence, after it being exposed by MSM.. MULTIPLE TIMES?

Are the Trump team in on the conspiracy too?? Not the out-in-the open breadcrumb pile of the Trump/Russia thing, of course... but the far more complex and harder-to-pull-off MSM/DNC/Trump-team all working together collusion story thing!

First off I have read no stories about Trump team admitting to anything. You phrase it like his guilt is a forgone conclusion, but as typical there is no substance to back up the claim.

What is the supposed key evidence that you claim?

If it is so damning, whatever it is your talking about, it would be the top headline on every television.

Most everything reported on is not based on hard facts, but on speculation and assumptions and well you know what that's worth.

Well... for one, these were released by Trump Jr himself, where he explicitly says they would "love" to accept stolen materials on Trump's opponent and that the "very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump."

But that's just one instance of them flat out admitting one thing, only to obfuscate and gaslight later on.. only to have folks on this thread and others gobble it up and think " r/iamverysmart for ignoring the obvious."

How is this admitting to key evidence, because remember the accusation is collusion with the Russians to steal the election?

All I see is someone offered dirt on the opposing candidate and him agreeing to sit down and see what they might have, not collusion with the intent to defraud the election process as the media would like you to believe.

The next and most important question is, was the attorney working on her own or as a representative working on behalf of the Russian Government and was he aware of that?

The final observation is do you think Hillary did the same by paying a British officer to dig up dirt on Trump?

Wouldn't that by your definition make Hillary colluding with the British to get dirt on Trump?

Keep in mind too, she actually payed for the dirt, Trump Jr. did not.

Right. They asked for and received material assistance (including stolen material) from a hostile foreign government actively engaged in cyber warfare on the United States in exchange for loosening sanctions on Putin and the Oligarchs of Russia... or as the Trunp team calls them, "adoptions".

Hillary on the other hand paid a US company for legal opposition research... who subcontracted a former (and highly respected) Mi6 spy who compiled a dossier. That dossier WAS NOT USED IN THE ELECTION BUT WAS INSTEAD GIVEN TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES.

If "crooked" Hillary had such explosive allegations against Trump, why didn't she release them?? If trump had the same uncorroberated info, you can fucking bet he would have tweeted that shit out.

Cut it out with the false equivalency. What Trump & co. did was ILLEGAL, tantamount to treason.

You believe far more idiotic conspiracies on far less actual, tangible evidence.

Because this sub is full of partisan bootlickers

The fact that OP takes a swing at “babbling paranoiacs” in this sub is just too rich.

This entire post is just saying that it's MSM propaganda and shifts any negative light away from Trump and Russia and onto the DNC, without any real substance.

This sub and others already discovered and discussed the plethora of evidence that Seth Rich leaked the DNC emails, not Russian hackers. For people who have been following this story since the beginning, this is already basically a fact, not even a theory.

What exactly is the fever pitch you have described? This Russian hacker saying he can prove the FSB hired him? I posted it here and it's resting comfortably at 0 upvotes, and the usual MSM players haven't touched it, probably because it doesn't include Trump's name. There goes your title's main points...

Anytime someone (an arrested, likely criminal no less) says they can prove something but hasn't, it is fishy. Same deal with Nukulin saying the FBI leaned on him to cop to hacking involvement, same deal here. Doesn't mean it's a fake story or that more info on the scenario won't arrive. Just another piece of the story relevant to this sub regardless if it ends up being true or not.

us conspiracy theorists

most conspiracy theorists

even folks in that /r/worldnews thread aren't buying this latest propaganda

red flags

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "argument to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

Who'd you vote for?

I didnt. I hate trump, and i dont love hillary. I would have voted for bernie. I was, and am still, pissed about how bernie was treated by the dnc.

my state goes blue anyway, if I was in a swing state I would have voted against trump

Holy shit, finally someone who doesn't vote. I thought I was the last god damned unicorn or something.

i dont really support abstaining. I didnt want to support hillary.

I want ranked choice voting for presidents.

I also vote on local matters

I would have voted against trump.

Yes because rewarding the people who rigged the DNC against your preferred candidate is how you break them of that habit.

im not simple minded enough to think trump is someone i want in power, just because the dnc sucks.

Sure, widescale collusion and corruption directly against the wishes of the American people could be described with "sucks". Or, it could also be fucking disgusting, and you should feel bad for downplaying it.

it sucks. theyre a private org, theyre allowed to do it under the system. Im all for election reform, ranked choice voting and the dismantling of the 2 party system. But do you think the republicans would agree to a democrat led charge to reform elections?

the republicans are fighting undoing gerrymandering ffs. its a big job, and its important to me but right now it doesnt seem realistic.

within the system we currently work with, im voting against demogogue narcissist idiots like trump every time, as long as the alternative is less 'sucky'

Killary is less sucky than Trump? Jesus, I at least went third party, once again I just find supporting her to be a disgusting trait.

A private org I will never again vote for. Thanks to their relentless Reddit warriors and thought police I actually hate democrats with a passion now.

the dnc and democrats are two different things i would say, the dnc derserves the hate, democrats i can treat as individuals

Yes good distinction but I would lump on those that still support or defend the dnc

So you voted against trump?

I did yes, but we're talking about Clinton and the DNC, so stop deflecting. Read my post history, I voted third party.

But simple minded enough to think Hillary is. K.

Actually, they probably give a shit about public health, education, public lands, and other public goods that Trump and his cronies are stealing. They might not want to give 1.7 trillion to the 1%.

They might actually care about the American social safety net, they might use public lands to hunt or fish, they might understand basic decency.

I didn't vote for Hillary either, but you'd have to be purposely misleading to think any of this theft happens under her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7mnjb7/the_extraordinary_russian_meddlingcollusion/drvclsq/

They feel the burn.

its clear why it hasnt embraced it, since it breaks down pretty clearly along partisan lines.

if you voted for trump-> you dont believe it

id you dislike trump-> you likely believe it

now we get a bunch of 'im a bernie bro, and i hate trump but even i can see this russian collusion is bs!' which is a pretty common tactic. you see it all the time in disinfo. but if you follow their statements, theyll never say a thing that lines up with being a sanders supporter, outside of the small overlap in the trump/sanders camps

anyways, it also follows that if you dont believe in russian collusion, you do most likely believe in pizzagate, or that seth rich was a leaker (not a hack!! lol) or any number of conspiracies that make the left look bad.

I am a Sanders supporter and don't buy any of the Russia bullshit. There's actually a whole sub of us over at WOTB, but to you neoliberals, we're all just Russian boogeymen paid by the KGB to brainwash the Americans.

easy on the labels bro

Sorry if you are not a neolib, I just assumed from your comments

But what if you are a Bernie bro who likes trump more.

You just waved your hand and dismissed a lot of real people as “disinfo”

sure they exist

a lot of them came into being as a way to split the democrat party, a tactic to keep people at home. worked for me, though i wasnt the target, not being a swing state voter. But I did stay home and didnt vote for hillary

bernie bros who like trump more than hillary are real yes. Kinda weird tho, cuz bernie and trump dont really have a whole lot in common, other than not being hillary

Nice instant downvote.

There’s a lot of blue being shared in this thread!

i didnt downvote you

Former Bernie "bro" (which is a Hillary shill tactic label by the way) here. I don't buy the Russia narrative. I saw first hand how corrupt the DNC is and was so I removed myself from the party and affirmed a hardline independent view. However, i do see faults in Bernie--especially his cowardice and some social programs. I like Bernie more than Trump but when it came down to Trump vs Hillary I was allllll in on Trump. He didn't come from a political background and he funded his own campaign for the most part. He also called out Hillary for her lies and scandals--which MSM NEVER does. All that served to at least shake a bit of the hypnosis on society.

All that served to at least shake a bit of the hypnosis on society.

the only positive i see in a trump presidency. instead of the creeping cornyism/corporate owned govt/oligarchy of hillary, trump is so bold and transparently unethical with his conflicts of interest and serving of big business that america might just start to drop the pretension that these politicians arent out for themselves

also, for better or worse, I think it has opened the door for non career politicians to enter the fray. Hopefully people i respect will consider running for office. God knows the people typically attracted to the job have been the absolute wrong types

You POV sill is using an angle of Dems vs Reps, though. In the end, a corporation will be in the pocket of both candidates---they dont lose against the little people. Well, unless someone like Sanders won (who was self-funded by the people).

Since Trump has been so polarizing (for better or worse) people have become more involved in understanding politics to a degree (some parrot MSM talking points). BUT at least there is more conversation. If Hillary had won, people would still be saying "I dont do politics/Politics doesnt affect me/I dont care about politics" while man behind the curtain and hypnosis remained unopposed.

I can't wait for 2020 when you have people like The Rock running for president (he has already hinted at it). It is going to be yet another instance of hypocrisy on their part ("BUT TRUMP ISNT QUALIFIED WAA WAA WAA"). Plus The Rock is also part of the ultra-rich and a contributor to the decay in culture (as part of Hollywood). His face is botoxxed to hell already.

I've been here several years. Respectfully, you don't fucking speak for me or my views.

Except nobody elected their ring leader. A person with power (that's you, a mod) speaking on behalf of an ambiguous group of people and encouraging further division by throwing stones at folks who disagree with your opinion, is a problem.

Being a Mod you moderate, you don't represent us and speak on our behalf. You help keep the community healthy, but using your position to push certain agendas corrupts the role of being a moderator. Why would I come here if the mods in the name of "moderating" supress. alternate views (as has been done). What you're doing is using the "soft power" of your position to advocate against views you disagree with.

If anything, I'm saying that we need to calm down and wait for evidence before unnecessarily increasing global tension.

I can read your words myself. If that was what you intended to say you should have totally reworded this post (and your comments, c'mon dude).

My "opinion" is that I don't have an opinion on the Russia conspiracy theory because we have yet to see all the evidence.

You don't need to lie to me and pretend like you've already made up your mind. lol

If I didn't express myself correctly at first I apologize, and I'm more than capable of acknowledging my own hypocrisy if warranted.

Respect. You don't see that often. Thank you for engaging with me. I'm not leaving...if I'm being a bit of a hard ass it's because I'm sick of this happening in this sub.

argumentum ad logicam

Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false.

red flags indicate danger. Now you are alert.

And you are debunked.

In order for your argument to hold weight, you would have to start from a fact-based foundation. You're not.

/u/UnverifiedAlligator is starting from a foundation based in what is known. You're starting from a foundation of what you want to believe, which does not take into account what is known.

So you admit the MSM narrative about Russia collusion doesn't "hold weight" since it's based on what the liberal media "wants to believe".

and a couple of indictments, and a couple of guys pleading guilty,

It's fallacious if it is the only premise. But it clearly isn't. In fact, OP didn't even use these statements as premises. He/she used them either as explanatory observations, or "good news" observations.

hes trying to convince me to think a certain way, using fallacious reasoning.

half of the post is people in another sub that agree with him

Again, those references to what other people believe were not used as premises. It wasn't as if you should conclude that there is no Russian conspiracy b/c people in worldnews wrote critical comments. The conclusion the OP wanted you to draw from that was just that people are starting to become more skeptical. That is exactly how you would prove such a conclusion.

You are acting like you are being very critical of logical reasoning, but instead you are simply using "logical fallacy taglines" to try to refute an argument without actually engaging with it.

i am pointing out the red flags that are alerting me to an agenda i should be distrustful of.

and if you think the point of this post was simply congratulating conspiracy theorists for being skeptical

so the narrative was demonstrably shifted towards the Russia bogeyman.

If similar corruption had been discovered and exposed on the Republicans side, how many Dems do you think would be calling for Russian blood?

The most shocking thing to me is how they've successfully revitalized the Cold War mentality, when I truly was beginning to believe that we had grown out of such xenophobia on a collective scale.

ability of the MSM to unite under a banner of propaganda and FUD,

then why write in these terms? are you not able to discern a slant? an attempt to convince you that this is just a hunt for a bogeyman, a partisan smearjob, xenophobia, propaganda and fud?

Yeah you're just not following my reasoning. The observations on what other people think -- namely the commentators in worldnews -- were just to point out (in a positive way) the growing trend of skepticism. The other premises and conclusions that you now quote are part of the primary argument against the Russia/Trump illegal collusion theory. Note that when you are able to bifurcate the two lines of argument, there is no fallacious reasoning.

I think thats a fair point.

What i am trying to point out, to justify my original post, is that this isnt simply what you are saying it is. It is trying to convince you that there is a correct side to this. If OP's post was simply the last sentence and the examples from the other sub, then you would be correct.

But OPs post also includes the selections I highlighted above, and that is what i am trying to draw attention to

I'd like to thank you along with with /u/perceptionate for having this well reasoned and articulated exchange.

It's a breath of fresh air to see users around here critique content in a constructive manner without resorting to childish comments or devolving into complete shit.

you are right. his logic is flawed. i cant really tell if its purposeful or he just doesnt understand the reasoning.

OP is literally the biggest trumper in this sub and posts their propaganda here non stop every day

i hadnt noticed, seems really balanced when I look through his submission history

balanced? it's a 3 day old account with throw away bs comment answers to askreddit threads then suddenly posts to the_donald and posts to r/news about black criminals

He made a new account likely after getting banned, farmed easy karma in default subs, then began his propaganda push

haha

also he's top mod and will ban you or other mods will ban you if you complain about the mods, especially when it comes to Trump or the next big thing in the alt-right sphere

yeah he seems great they all seem great praise our dear leaders

Trump has proven to be a useful idiot that they've used to unite otherwise free-thinking and intelligent individuals into an incredibly destructive circle-jerking feedback loop that is having an extremely deleterious effect on society on an individual and collective level.

Op

Then you miss his non stop cross posts from the_donald

Had a quick look through his post history and saw no t_d posts not x-posts from there.
You're gonna have to back up your claim with some evidence.

Horribly biased mod that needs to go.

And their points and other reasons. Citing a source is exactly what you're saying. It's not just they also agree. It's they also recognize point a, point b etc

or he wants you to think they agree with his bogeyman, partisan, cold war fever points. seems like most of the quotes just make the logical point that a guy in prison will say whatever he thinks people will want to hear

Most all of what he says is logical and reasonable. Hes a political prisoner, a Nelson Mandela. UN has twice condemned his situation.

100% accuracy. Few if any newspapers can make that claim. Thats why they hate him. Socrates wss killed for truth telling.

WL made it easy to submit anonymously.

His basic argument is that he doesn't think it happened but even if it did he doesn't care. He also mixes up the various "hacking" allegations.

you know, you're right

now let's examine the Russiagate arguments that outlets like WaPo, buzzfeed, etc are publishing

Why would we not? WashPo and NYT have broken tons of stories, including both Clinton scandals (Bill and Hillary's), Enron and Watergate.

Name a single verified, criminally investigated story that a right-wing publication has broken.

wtf are you talking about and how does that address any of the (many, MANY) fallacies of Russiagate

Go on. Address all those fallacies you suppose. Source and cite them.

Thanks.

the fact that the entirety of Russiagate relies on taking intelligence agencies at their word seems like a pretty big fallacy to me - argument from authority

oh and argument from popularity when the claim that 17 agencies verified the claim gets made, or maybe that would just be an old-fashioned lie

The only similarity between the WaPo you read everyday and the WaPo that broke Watergate is the sign on the fucking building. Don't kid yourself into thinking they have any credibility from it.

I think Drudge Report back in the 90s broke the Lewinsky scandal. But that’s the only one off the top of my head.

sure, but that kind of stuff isnt really welcome here

I think that saying "most people don't buy it" is the consensus of response to the MSM narrative, not an attempt to establish truths about any purported collusion. Truth seekers aren't actively trying to shape the narrative, the MSM is. Pointing out that the MSM position is widely considered false propaganda around here is the only way to defend against false propaganda taking root, so it shouldn't be considered a red flag. It's the scientific method at work.

The population is being inundated with a ludicrous story that Russia has taken over control of our government with not only no proof, but not even specific charges, just a vague idea that collusion happened. A lot of people don't buy this bogus story because it is devoid of facts and evidence, not because we want the "home team" to win and this helps our team acheive that.

Amen

I knew it was bs the moment it started up before trump even won because I remembered the video where obama laughed at romney for saying russia was our biggest threat and the other video where obama was caught on mic saying "tell putin i'll have more flexibility after the election." The pivot from that to red scare 2.0 showed that the left was taking the neocon torch from the right. And the unified front across all forms of media in perpetuating these lies shows what we already knew that our media is about as closely held as russia's is.

Everyone was talking about Russian hacking well before the day after the election. They argued about it during their third debate.

Yes, everyone was talking about it because the left was trying to force it down our throats already. When Hillary brought up Russian hacking and fact checkers at the third debate, I got chills. That was a dark moment in American history.

It's the Red Scare 2.0. It's utter garbage.

ITT: People doing exactly as OP predicted

The post is literally throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. An “argument” based on information that is classified is hardly a starting point, when quite literally their is more than enough public information to discredit 95% of what he is saying.

Oh your a conspirator so you need proof. Here’s your proof: has Trump taken the time to scream fake news whenever he is given the chance? Yes? So why is this about the leakers and not the leaks? Why is he attacking people and not the information?

My favorite part is when you can smell a leak that has come directly from the administration a mile away.

“Ohh looking Mueller had to fire someone that was sending anti-trump texts. Ohh let’s not looky when it is revealed the guy was also sending anti-dem texts.”

The thing I don't get is that nobody ever brings up that WikiLeaks released information that the US often covers their tracks in cyber warfare by making it look like it was the Russians that did it.

It isn't enough to perform false attribution on the scale we've seen here. NSA should have those capabilities to emulate nearly any attacker, but that hasn't been shown yet.

It's definitely something that warrants investigation though since we already know something shady went down locally during the Democratic primaries and I've yet to see any concrete evidence pointing to the Russians.

You probably wouldn't see concrete evidence until they're ready for a trial or some other action, almost any way the nsa could prove it would expose their capabilities.

Bill Binney knows...

Binney knows what?

He's one of the architects of the NSA. He knows their capabilities and he has already weighed in to state that the DNC hack was faked.

He is currently suing Bush Admin, Obama Admin, and Trump Admin for unconstitutional Domestic Surveillance.

I know who he was, does Thomas drakes opinion hold any weight? Because he doesn't agree with Binney.

Honestly the reasoning Binney uses is pretty poor, the file transfer speed does not indicate it was a leak and other security professionals have commented on this as well.

So are we pivoting from "the hacks never happened, Seth Rich" to "they were good for the American people"?

Who is 'we'? I speak for myself and I think Seth Rich was the whistle blower and they were good for the American people in that it exposed a lot of crimes and corruption within one of the political parties..

I think OP makes a solid point how the headline could be "Alternate title: "Guy in jail says WTF ever he has to in hopes to get a deal/lesser sentence"" and this applies just as much to Assange claim about Seth Rich.

"Trump, get me immunity and out of this embassy and I'll say whatever so Russians aren't to blame"

Do you honestly think Assange would trust any US Admin to "clear the charges"? Assange's goal is simple. Get those muthers' that killed his leaker.

Depends on how desperate he is to get out of his em assay prison. Take a look at it as a possible motive.

He wouldn't stand a chance of pardon/immunity with Clinton and thus releases email leaks at oped fine times when Trump has negative coverage to deflect.

Trying to cooperate with Trump team personnel. This would accomplish an insider friend and favors. It was unsuccessful but an attemp fits the motive.

Rohrabacher after talking with Assange wanted to talk directly to Trump to negotiate a pardon in exchange for his information on the leaks.

It's only a possible motive, but it fits the bill so far. Secondly if he does not get a pardon/immunity, he has little to risk. He is also a worldwide known figure so the government betraying it's word would have negative implications.

Lastly, take a look at a Wikileaks defector, much of his story has been affirmed by Assange himself.

https://www.wired.com/2011/02/wikileaks-book/

Contradicting statements where Wikileaks lies to inflate the skills of its team, selling leaks for money, and not giving a damn about the person who leaked.

Seriously?

What kinda koolaid drinking is going on here?

A man who repeatedly defied dangerous governments to expose the truth. Who was the target of CIA squads. Who lived meagerly whilst wikileaks rose to prominence. Who now lives trapped in an embassy.... Is now somehow a grifter scamming for funds? And he made this transformation conveniently for the 2016 election cycle? 0 to 100 with no sign change?

Even if I buy this quick transformation narrative, it still doesn't do anything to allay my concerns about the Clinton Cabal. Assange could have gotten a payment from the devil himself and I still wouldn't care. Those wikileaks emails are Google DKIM signed and therefore true.

That is the important thing that nobody will discuss. There are real crimes documented there instead of the theoretical crime of exposing info for political gain. The very same type of info we all wish our Journalists would expose. And those wonderful "defenders of Democracy" wont deign to examine the wikileaks data and instead bluster about "where it came from".

And he made this transformation conveniently for the 2016 election cycle? 0 to 100 with no sign change?

Notice the date on the articles. 2010 and 2011. This is nothing new. There are others too, I originally wanted to find an article about a defector in 2015 specifically talking about selling information. However I'm on mobile as the links show and I couldn't find that specific case. Pretty much all Wikileaks defectors tell a similiar story or selling out and selective releases.

Neighter has anyone mentioned Clinton here until you. The emails tell their own story. This is about statements Assange makes outside of leaks, in this case it started by his Seth Rich statements. The leaks are real, but that changes nothing that Assange lies, twists, and deals with secret information to outside parties that are not leaked. His statements need to scrutinized due to his past behavior.

Editor seeking a good story which will give org credibility.

Keep in mind WL has a perfect record

Their releases have a perfect record, the man dosen't.

See my other comment with links to Wikileaks lying, selling information, and selective releases from Wikileaks defectors.

Most all mud slinging. Smear the leader. An old and tired tactic which you know the US is engaged in. Hillary said drone him. Other politicains have said kill him.

Obama repealed the law which barred propaganda against citizens by the government.

So we know for sure top spin doctors are spinning their best lies to slander him and discredit him.

He will go down in history as this centuries greatest engine of democracy.

Thats why they cut his twitter.

Ah so now we come to another issue, propaganda.

You write Clinton threatened Assange with drone strikes like its a fact. Yet that info came from Truepundit, a site with many false news stories, in what they claimed was an annomynous source that heard it 6 years ago. They than conflate the story by referencing an email that strictly talks about diplomacy, lawyers, and PR. It's not even a sound article and yet this claim shows up a lot. Not to mention the use of an annomynous source which somehow no one questions.

https://truepundit.com/under-intense-pressure-to-silence-wikileaks-secretary-of-state-hillary-clinton-proposed-drone-strike-on-julian-assange/

I'm glad you mentioned the Smith-Mundt amendment of 2013 included in the National Defense Authorization Act. Obama did sign it, and he issued a signing statement that he dosen't agree with some provisions but the constitution does not allow him to pick sections. He also tried to threaten a veto the year because of provisions that allow holding us citizens without heabus corpus. He had no success and ended up signing that one too. You should research before pinning it on Obama.

https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2013/01/obama-signs-defense-bill-notes-regrets-153222

Also check their link to a copy of his complete 2012 and 2013 statements.

As for Assange, the defectors statements don't just stand by themselves. While we don't have much else besides them to describe Wikileaks inner workings, we have a mild example in DMs between Wikileaks and Trump team.

Specifically, as an example of information dealing we have the password to an opposition website being handed out. This Rutherford contradicts Wikileaks prior statement on how information is acquired and handled. In short, Wikileaks has lied and schemed, blemishing their record outside the defectors statements

She absolutely said it.

She claims she was joking if she said it and her campaign manager did not deny utvwhen directly asked.

So ironically it's you chasing propaganda.

So her not recalling that she said that 6 years ago means she absolutely said it? Do you recall everything you said over half a decade ago.

Furthermore, that video has 5 minutes of a guy priming you before they even show her clip. He's telling you what to think instead of watching first and making up your mind. They also tersely exit it straight to her answering without letting you hear the question.

So what Obama regrets subjecting American people to propaganda. Every propaganda piece can carry an apology. History and the demise of First Amendment will note his regret.

Obama dosen't just regret, he tried fighting it the year prior. The Smith-Mundt act when solo legislature had failed and needed to be bundled up. A veto for the NDAA would mean the military gets unfunded until a new NDAA is released. He viewed it as no choice and his resistance was ineffective because like he said the constitution does not give him the power. It also passed 98-0 through the senate.

As well if the org has a perfect record it should be protected and promoted. No one is saying that. Kill the head is their plan.

Spot on

It’s not a pivot. Both can be true (or not true) at the same time. But it is long past the time for people to start talking about how leaks or hacks from extremely powerful organizations are a good thing. We shouldn’t expect self-interested politicians and the corporate media to say this. It is the regular individual who benefits from this.

If the Russians were purely in the businesss of exposing corruption, why didn't they release the RNC emails that they hacked? I don't buy the Russians are doing us a favor by interfering in our election argument for a second.

Did you read the article you posted? It’s so full of deflection and sidestepping there’s absolute nothing in it

We have evidence they hacked the dnc?

Cuz i see no evidence. Can u show me?

Fact is the only thing the russians actually did was spend a few thousand dollars on pro hillary ads on Facebook

Why are you getting down voted for facts?

A) Fact is the only thing the russians actually did was spend a few thousand dollars on pro hillary ads on Facebook

Heavily disputed and currently being investigated.

B) And we had all the major media outlets lying about trump

They reported on trump, I don't really remember them ever lying about him.

One senior government official, who had been briefed on an F.B.I. investigation into the matter, said that while there were attempts to penetrate the Republican committee’s systems, they were not successful.

You are lying.

I was not lying, it was the first hit. Thank you, I have updated my link with a better source.

Russia didn't hack the dnc. Read a leak.

Compelling argument.

You too? How were those leaks not good for the American people, regardless of who leaked them? Honest question.

Sure, knowing about DNC corruption is good. A country hacking into our political organizations to leak data so that they can get a candidate who is favorable to them is not good for the American people though.

Its amazing how some people have been convinced propaganda is good for them.

Let's call them conspiracy theorists! Or Alternative conspiracy theorist. Or the alt-theorist.

And they call US conspiracy theorists

They never were "rational", they were like all others, motivated by their class and interests to rationalize events that their elitist minds cannot comprehend; that a large number of people absolutely hate the world they are creating, still is not registering for them. The borderless/Neoliberal world hasn't adapted at all, no matter the feedback. Their idealouges who see themselves as part of the untouchable Technocracy in the future and they will do anything to preserve their place.

And with one fail swoop of a trawlers net, OP has netted the lot, this will eventually become shooting fish in a barrel

Thank goodness for RES. Makes it easy.

On mobile so I have never experienced RES

Try it out sometime. You can tag asshats so that it is easier to filter out the bs.

We have people that believe in lizard men but we cannot fathom that Russia could run a campaign to try and influence the outcome of an election. Things that have been done to nation's in the past. It seems that anything that may hurt Trump is looked down upon as this sub becomes more partisan by the day. Russia attempted to influence the election. Period. Did trump know or did he collude? Seems that way but not certain. That's the conspiracy here. What did he know and when did he know it. Why can't players on both sides of the aisle agree with that?

I agree. All polarized thinking is unhelpful. The only conspiracy theory etc we should all agree on is the one where destructive/nefarious policy at large is outed and then curtailed or better...put a stop to... uniforms and banners are moot..all sides are at It.. we all need to unite behind principle first and foremost...

don't underestimate just how difficult it is for some people to admit when they're wrong.

i swear trump could admit he was involved and resign and people would still say it's a fake news witch hunt.

it's a cult on a mass scale.

The biggest issue is only around 33% or less of the country are hardcore Trump supporters. They tend to be the least informed/educated of the country. They only watch listen to information that fits their narrative. So it's not surprising they don't know many of the details and just assume that anything they dont agree with is incorrect.

The other huge issue is why can't there be two groups of puppet masters. I think there are likely 3-4 large groups around the world that are screwing us. What I see right now is the new group is backing Republicans to weaken the group behind the Democrats which in my opinion is the oldest and strongest out of all of them.

yeah i agree. it's interesting, if you look up which states have the highest incarceration rates, poorest education, highest teen pregnancy rates, etc. the top 10 are always dominated by predominantly republican states (OK, AL, AR, MS, GA, TX) these are deep red states too.

i wonder if these are the effects of republican leadership, or if the republican leadership is the effect of these statistics.

The way I see it is Republicans make the states so terrible to live in the only people that stay around are the ones who won't survive elsewhere. Look at population changes in the last 10-20 years. Red states are losing a massive amount of the younger population. While states like Colorado, Oregon, Washington and California the population has exploded. The red states get to keep a minimum amount of electoral votes so they just work on keeping those and they can win easily if the democrats don't get their heads out of their ass.

yeah that makes sense

None of those states have homogeneous populations. The ones who vote Republican are generally not the same ones have poor education, and high incarceration and teen pregnancy rates. The ones with high incarceration rates are not eligible to vote as they tend to have felony convictions on their records.

The ones who vote Republican are generally not the same ones who have poor education, and high incarceration and teen pregnancy rates.

source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/alabama-exit-polls/?utm_term=.bebf3d61b246

Holy fuck, the irony hurts.

On the other side

It's like any other hive mind, it's never a good thing. Using your cult comparison, it is exactly what you see in cults like Aum Shinrikyo and other doomsday/death cults. The hive mind is the ONLY thing that matters, everything else is not real. What we see with political affiliations nowadays is similar but not quite as extreme.

it's very much a cult, and trump is their narcisstic yet charismatic, con-man leader.

don't underestimate just how difficult it is for some people to admit when they're wrong.

i swear trump could admit he was involved and resign and people would still say it's a fake news witch hunt.

it's a cult on a mass scale.

believe in lizard men

nothing gets past you...

I can absolutely fathom that Russia would try to influence the election -- along with basically every other major country/world actor. It's public record that the U.S. gets funneled with foreign money during elections. In fact, we do the same thing to other nations.

What people can't "fathom" is what exactly the "crime" here is. "Colluding" is not a crime (however ominous this carefully chosen word sounds). Simply "knowing" is also not a crime. Instead, you would have to show that Trump helped Russia do something illegal (remember, facebook ads or something like that is not illegal). It is conceivable that Trump helped Russia hack the emails -- although, honestly it seems very unlikely. Your "what did he know and when did he know it" question has absolutely no bearing on criminality, or frankly, wrongdoing.

The question “what did he know and when did he know it” absolutely bears upon criminality in claims of obstruction of justice and that horse certainly has legs.

Bullshit. The criminality and blood is on Clinton and the DNC’s hands. And we know that for a fact... yet you keep speculating.

Flesh that out. How exactly does mere knowledge have bearing on an obstruction charge?

It's the only subject on this sub that has a group of people actively trying to kill the conspiracy and discussion of it here.

"unverified allegations"

I'd like to see Pizzagate go the fuck away. Just let that weirdo asshole run his weird pizza place in peace.

Russian influence = ok Pedos = not ok Gotcha

What influence did Russia have? Exposing that we literally could have elected a completely corrupt to the core establishment politician?

Thanks Russia.

How are you to stop influence over the internet? What censorship are you suggesting?

Why do you guys always do that. At no point should a rational logical person assume that because someone has a problem with pizzagate that they are saying pedos are ok. It is such a stupid dichotomy. Please don't assume that just because someone is arguing against a point that they believe in the extreme opposite of the point.

. At no point should a rational logical person assume

Look at the narrow mind over here, go back to politics where you belong.

Right...because since I dislike Trump I must like /r/politics. Like 90% of my posts are here and /r/potuswatch. Thanks for taking the time to prove my point though.

When have I asked or cared? You just glow in the dark as someone with an agenda to push, boo hoo!

You are deliberately misrepresenting pizzagate.

Oh, please, tell us more, MrInternetDetective!

including the mods who flaired the dossier post as having no evidence, the first time in history they did that

you don't mean the dossier post that was proven to be paid for by the Clinton campaign and revealed to be fake?

Don’t forget all the similar tags “misleading title” “unverified allegations” etc., or all the random times a post gets put into contest mode

I absolutely agree that Russia meddled in our election in some form or other. Did it actually effect the results of the election? Perhaps.

However, the fact of the matter is that the DNC did far more to meddle in our election than Russia did. The blatant corruption exposed in the dnc and Podesta leaks is undeniable.

My issue is with those who scream "Russia Russia Russia!!!!" yet have no qualms with what the DNC did.

Are you forgetting what the GOP did only 1 election ago to Ron Paul?

They literally changed the rules mid election to stop him from gaining delegates at the pace he was.

They were going to change that rule back this election to stop Trump but realized they were already too late and were stuck with him.

Both parties do fucked up shit to try and pick the candidate they want.

I'll never forgive the DNC for what they did, I'll never stop bringing it up.

But we currently have a president compromised by outside influence that worked to fuck with our election, we know this, we need to deal with it. Hillary has no power anymore

“We know this” no you don’t actually. Hence the investigation, which trump himself is not part of.

Oh he isn't? Just everyone around him and his campaign?

No he’s not.

That was true back in March. Seems pretty obvious he's gonna get nailed on obstruction at the very least

No. It isn’t. You’ve got TONS of anti trump posts so I know you’re not interested in a discussion. But that’s just wishful thinking, no facts.

I agree that the RNC is exactly the same. My point, however, is that the DNC did more to "rig" the 2016 election than Russia, or any other outside influence.

Our own two party system was caught red handed blatantly screwing over their constituents in favor of lobbyists and corporate donors. Ignoring the will of the people in favor of the elite. We all knew that Democrats and Republicans both only care about the lobbyists and corporations that fund their campaigns, but rarely have we been given such undeniable proof of their backroom dealings to keep the Wallstreet/corporate friendly candidate in the race.

We have been handed a proverbial treasure trove of evidence of corruption within our own government, and yet we sit here and argue over whatever small role Russia may have played in the game? I call bullshit. The same people who helped prop up Hillary and Trump (remember how he received over a billion dollars in free advertising throughout the campaign?) are leading the McCarthy-esk witch hunt over Russia.

We should be focused on the curruption in our own government, on both the red and blue sides, rather than the donkey show the media keeps pushing. Don't let the establishment control the narrative.

Paul Ryan is literally on tape saying not to leak things, that the gop is family and they stick together, when one of them brought up their very real fear of trump being compromised

The RNC was hacked too. They're all compromised

could you follow up on the ron paul question?

In the 2012 primary election, candidates not named Mitt Romney were sticking around a little longer than the establishment would have liked. At the convention, they "changed" the rules regarding delegate allocation. Ben Swann did a segment on this moment at the convention, and saw that on John Boehner's teleprompter, "the ayes have it" was printed, making it seem like the rules were being changed regardless of whether the ayes or the no's had it.

There's nothing illegal about what the DNC did, at the end of the day. They are a private organization who can put forward any candidate they choose. They could pull names out of a hat and it would still be their prerogative.

Meanwhile, collusion with the Russian goverment could quite possibly be treason, punishable by death.

But please, let's keep putin these two things on the same plane of equivalency.

Collusion that’s so brazen a year of wire taps have shown nothing aside from minor paperwork bullshit. Keep drinking the msm kool-aid, feels good with everyone around you nodding but the facts aren’t there.

The FBI isn't done yet. Maybe you realize that it takes the wheels of justice a while to grind? Watergate took a full two years to get to the impeachment point. Mueller isn't showing his hand entirely yet because he's not a fucking shill and is doing his job.

You think if there was a shred of actual wrong doing everyone in power wouldn’t jump over backwards jerking off into each other’s faces trying to get him out of office? There’s no way that if there was anything it wouldn’t be out and he’d be in cuffs by now with how rabid everyone is against him. I think he shouldn’t be president because of his pussy comments alone, but let’s try the guy on real stuff instead of circle jerk Russian rhetoric every. Damn. Day.

We'll see once the investigation finishes, won't we?

I believe lizard men over Russian influence any day. No proof either way, lol!

Russia attempted to influence the election. Period.

Did I miss something? I thought this was still being investigated. I recall watching an congressional IT specialist say in a conressional meeting that the data breach had to have been an onsight data transfer. Something about the size of the data being too large to be uploaded. Looking at Awans...

Complete bullshit. Multi-GB movies are downloaded via torrent all the time.

This is the video if anyone cares to hear him say it. Not sure where in the video.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/giGMxuTswWGF/

I don't really care what some random IT chump might say before Congress, I have actual real world experience that tells me different.

um ok. So you are saying that the DNC server files were part of a torrent swarm? I think I am gonna have to believe the IT specialist over you.

I mean yeah actually, that's typically how Wikileaks and the like distribute their dumps, via torrent and not by direct download. But I've been in IT for over 20 years, so please, go ahead and believe what you like lol.

https://nickshell1983.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/charlie_from_charlie_and_the_chocolate_factory_1971-15-family-movies-re-cut-as-horror-films.jpeg

Cute reply that does nothing to address what I've said.

The same look David Brock gives those who accept his pedo money ;)

So what you're saying is that the I itI hack of DNC files was stolen and transmitted off their servers through a torrent swarm?

The DNC was storing their files as a torrent file, shared by multiple servers? Is that what you're saying?

Because that's the only way someone could download a file as fast as a "multiple gb movie" as you said.

Oh, please, just stop. Do you have any idea how BT actually works? Do you sincerely believe that the only way to obtain GB of email is to download a single file directly over a point to point connection? GTFO.

Actually I think you’re in the wrong here. You have to have multiple copies of the torrent data for the speeds, so unless the DNC was storing multiple copies, on multiple servers, he’s right.

It's entirely possible that the original file was seeded by malware infiltration directly from the DNC's servers, or a client computer. A PST on a laptop would be an easy target.

Occam’s Razor man.

Invoking Occam's Razor in this sub? Where Pizzagate and Seth Rich theories abound? That's precious.

I think those being true are closer to being believable than the “official” stories.

Now I know I can completely disregard anything you have to say, thanks!

¯_(ツ)_/¯ Robbery gone wrong and nothing stolen. Weird ass pizza peddler whose code words are known pedo key phrases. And then the media just tells you it’s debunked with no investigation. Facebook YouTube and twitter all block any discussion of it. Makes sense

You are completely mental if you think all social media blocks discussion of those topics.

Look, here I go: PIZZAGATE SETH RICH PEDOS PODESTA EMAILS HILARY DNC

If this comment is still live, then ...

Apparently you weren’t paying attention when it was at a fever pitch. The solution is to mock and use that comment as proof. You know it’s not, we all know it’s not.

Look, you moron, it's so easy to disprove your allegation that "ANY DISCUSSION OF IT" is blocked. I can link you a dozen videos on YouTube right now, if I didn't actually have a job I need to get back to, comrade.

Case in point. No discussion. Name calling and the comrade comments to ridicule. You can’t take a line like “any discussion of it” and make it an end all be all point. You know what I mean, and what was done. You like to deflect quite a bit. Mass censorship of the discussion was rampant. Less so now.

Do you have any proof at all of your allegations? since you can't prove a negative, it's rather hard to demonstrate that things that should be there, were not there.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1482030 And que the comments about it being on voat

From a casual perusal of that massive Gish gallop, 90 - 95% of those are blatant TOS violations on those platforms for revealing personal information, libel or death threats.

Strong work, that really reflects well on your cause.

That’s also not true. And it’s not my cause. You asked for it.

Just stop you are making yourself look quite foolish.

Actually no. As an IT pro I've seen cases of child porn and other illegal darkweb content being served up directly over torrents from individual endpoints. It's a well established fact that this happens. So how about you go drink a hot cup of shut the fuck up?

People who claim to be this or that around here are either brand new to the internet, deluded or lying. IT pro... Maybe watch the video since they are talking about terabytes not multi GB. Stop pretending to be a know it all. exit.

"Local Download". You must be real dense to believe that the file transfer was anything other than an insider with those bandwidth numbers.

That's not even the conspiracy here. The conspiracy is that he is in debt to Russia (and/or also compromised in other blackmailable ways) and is thereby under their control. The leader of our nation is the asset of an enemy nation is the conspiracy here.

That really isn't the issue. Even if russia did it you don't shoot the messenger.

I think most people on this sub believe Russia DID run a campaign to influence "division" that produced videos that favored both Trump and Clinton pre and post election. Most people don't buy the garbage that a $100k social media campaign would sway the election in favor of Trump. MSM pumped lies and favored both. I'm sure research would show majority of the MSM favored Clinton which receives money from foreign donors as well. The problem with all of this Russian story is that it is complete bullshit and there is more evidence to conspiracies posted on this sub than what MSM is trying to sell.

Ask Bill Binney.

Because /r/conspiracy is not bipartisan. It clearly has a pro-Trump/GOP agenda.

Isn't it crazy how so many people, even here in conspiracy land, are still so heavily invested in the left/right paradigm politically? I think a large portion of the population just aren't interested in the whole truth, it is far too much for many people. To know that we as a nation have played into and bought the dog and pony show going as far back as before the vast majority of us were even a glimmer in our parents' eyes is a distressing thought to say the least.

Exactly! Red and blue are two sides of the same coin. There is no discernable difference to the elite few who actually run our country. No matter who wins the presidency, the rich profit.

They use hot button issues (such as gay marriage, abortion, etc.) to polarize the masses. Do you really think the Koch brothers or George Soros give a rat's ass if two dudes can legally marry each other? No. Not in the slightest. These are issues the rich could care less about, while the issues that matter to them are passed no matter who sits in the white house.

I also would argue that a lot of the severely politically biased comments and threads are being pushed by companies like share blue. It is a way to help keep us divided and fighting each other instead of focusing our aggression toward those that have enslaved us all.

Great post, I think most normal people would agree.

Except when one side votes to remove net neutrality while the other fights against it. I think the two sides are still different on certain important things.

The parties both suck, but to nowhere near the same degree.

The Republican platform : (PDF) https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/static/home/data/platform.pdf

The Democratic platform: (PDF) http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

If you don't see the difference, wtf?

one at least tries to pretend that its not sucking corporate cock at every turn, cloaked under christianity

Not sure what you mean. The republicans are consistently more eager to suck that corporate cock. AND they hide behind their supposed faith.

Point is, the platforms at least tell you what they want to do.

If you're a human being, with an ounce of empathy, it's a clear choice.

The Republican Party is, straight out, a criminal racket. Anyone who votes Republican is either a sociopath, or a brain dead, Fox watching idiot.

You literally have to be an fool to vote for these assholes whom they keep voting for.

Fuck the USA. We deserve Trump AND a useless Republican congress.

Is the Internet really that big of a necessity or is everyone one addicted to it and worried their dealers are gonna raise the price of their favorite drug?

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! The answer is pretty evident to anyone with a brain.

Okay so what's the answer. Maybe put aside your ego and help people actually understand instead of insulting them and avoiding actual discussion. You don't even realize you've been brainwashed into being a diiiick

I'm sorry, but when someone asks whether the internet is even a necessity I have to laugh.

Education, medical research, communication, commerce, entertainment, Enterprise, defense... What portion of the modern world doesn't already really heavily on an open and fast internet?

Right isn't that addiction?

Addiction to like running water and highways and having lighting at night...

Okay well no, we're talking about the Internet not all technology.

The internet is as necessary for most business not as water.

Oh maybe I should clarify, people aren't addicted to technology/the Interne,t they're addicted to the technology/Internet of these big corporations that have every reason in the world to try and control people's minds

Give up the light bulb man. It's just the devil Corporations fucking with your sleep patterns. You should go to bed at sundown like nature intended.

Jeez

You're the idiot who can't see the necessities of digital communication networks.

Okay, i never said that once you just keep assuming that I'm trying to say that

I wouldnt say the koch brothers or soros dont give a fuck about those issues. Soros is pushing for, koch is pushing against. Spending and spent billions. I understand you think its a distraction, but i think its just another playing piece for then in whatever master plan they have

See how well their distractions work! This guy thinks gay marriage is part of a plot to rule the world. It’s just diversionary politics; they’re not spending billions of dollars on marriage policy they’re spending billions of dollars on camouflage.

if people want to have a relationship with a rock and call it hostenfluegendorf let them.

it doesn't change the perception that they married a rock to other people. and it doesn't hurt the people who don't want to marry rocks and call it some made up word.

Exactly! Red and blue are two sides of the same coin. There is no discernable difference to the elite few who actually run our country. No matter who wins the presidency, the rich profit.

This is a counterproductive, cynical narrative. No politician is perfect, but the GOP is unequivocally worse for the average American than the democrats. The GOP ideology itself is specifically crafted to shut down even the basic concept of government being able to provide for its citizens. They have an ideological slant against the government as ineffective and damaging towards "individual freedoms" and when they're in power they set out to make that a reality.

It's far easier to present government as unsound and destructive at its core than it is to present government as having high potential for success, so long as effort is appropriately applied. It's ideologically lazy, and this alone makes it far easier to blindly abide. People would rather believe that government is a misguided cause and give up, than they would believe that government can be successful and just with extraordinary effort. But the narrative that both parties are the same is absolutely ridiculous and screams ignorance. Here's some actual data to justify your opinion of these "2 sides of the same coin".

House Vote for Net Neutrality

Senate Vote for Net Neutrality

Money in Elections and Voting

Campaign Finance Disclosure Requirements

DISCLOSE Act

Backup Paper Ballots - Voting Record

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act

Sets reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by electoral candidates to influence elections (Reverse Citizens United)

Family Planning

Teen Pregnancy Education Amendment

Family Planning and Teen Pregnancy Prevention

Protect Women's Health From Corporate Interference Act (The 'anti-Hobby Lobby' bill)

Civil Rights

Same Sex Marriage Resolution 2006

Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013

Exempts Religiously Affiliated Employers from the Prohibition on Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

The Economy/Jobs

Limits Interest Rates for Certain Federal Student Loans

Student Loan Affordability Act

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding Amendment

Revokes tax credits for businesses that move jobs overseas

End the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection

Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Bureau Act

Kill Credit Default Swap Regulations

Emergency Unemployment Compensation Extension

Reduces Funding for Food Stamps

Minimum Wage Fairness Act

Environment

Stop "the War on Coal" Act of 2012

EPA Science Advisory Board Reform Act of 2013

Prohibit the Social Cost of Carbon in Agency Determinations

"War on Terror"

Time Between Troop Deployments

Habeas Corpus for Detainees of the United States

Habeas Review Amendment

Prohibits Detention of U.S. Citizens Without Trial

Authorizes Further Detention After Trial During Wartime

Prohibits Prosecution of Enemy Combatants in Civilian Courts

Repeal Indefinite Military Detention

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention Amendment

Patriot Act Reauthorization

Senate Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention

Misc

Prohibit the Use of Funds to Carry Out the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Prohibiting Federal Funding of National Public Radio

Allow employers to penalize employees that don't submit genetic testing for health insurance (Committee vote)

As much as they are better for the average commoner, they only exist to be marginally better because the average between them is what tptb like. .

And yet you only further prove my point. The articles you provided show the exact hot button issues that each side pushes to further polarize us.

Do these issues matter to the average American? Of course they do. It absolutely matters whether people can be discriminated against based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc. It absolutely matters that we are destroying our environment. The differences in the democratic and republican parties matter to US, not to THEM.

Wallstreet, big pharma, bit oil, the war machine, and other sectors that bribe our elected officials win no matter who we elect. The oligarchy that actually runs our country wins no matter who we elect.

We may be promised that each politician will be different. Obama promised to get us out of the middle east, then proceeded to expand and escalate our military conflicts in the region. He promised to stand up to the banking industry that caused the recession, and yet allowed his entire cabinet to be hand picked by a citibank executive resulting in almost no ramifications for the countless lives their greed had destroyed. Example after example of our government putting the rich before the common folk.

You can bury your head in the sand if you like and pretend the two parties are at odds with each other, but the fact is the DNC and the RNC have far more similarities than differences.

The actual data says you're wrong.

You bring up money in politics as being a common factor, but ignore the data I posted above showing the party line vote to remove that very influence in our government.

You bring up regulation in the financial sector post-recession while ignoring the democrats' creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, while the GOP actively fought to ensure that Bureau would not be an Agency. You say Obama had cabinet members influenced by Wall Street, ignoring the unequivocally more severe installment of literal Wallstreet CEOs in Trump's cabinet, and his appointment of ExxonMobil execs to the EPA.

You think that the DNC and RNC are equally influenced by large scale donors, but ignore the GOP passing a 1.5 Trillion dollar tax cut for the rich. You ignore Orrin Hatch proclaiming that the GOP must pass their tax reform literally for the sake of their donors.

You say I'm burying my head in the sand while you refuse to acknowledge the actual, vital differences between these parties because it's easier for you to say they're both the same and do nothing practical against it than it is to acknowledge that one side is far better despite their flaws. You preach an ideology of defeatism and laziness because you don't want to put in the work necessary for positive change.

Obama's cabinet was picked by Citibank

K. I didn't like the leniency with which the Obama administration approached executives of large banks after the recession.

How was Trump's cabinet picked? Literal Goldman Sachs and ExxonMobil CEOs. Are you happy with that?

But the elites arn't all on the same team, there's multiple factions who run the show.

Rich vs poor is another false dichotomy and you've bought into it hook line and sinker. If you could you'd be one of the village people with torches storming the manors of the bourgeoisie, ie you're a thieverous Bolshevik.

The only time these people have done anything wrong is when they exploited authoritarian systems to raise the barrier of entry and/or insure monopolies. Otherwise business relationships are always voluntary. You don't have to buy their products or work for them and there are usually other options even if that means relocating.

And any of the power which they have can be hedged against by pooling your resources together with other like minded folks, like with net neutrality the proper solution is for rural communities to pitch in for new fiber lines coming to their communities owned by the community members themselves. And since when did authoritarian collectivist progressives care about rural people? You want to take their guns away but "save" (censor) their internet?

There's a problem in our culture where so many people think government is the only way to pool resources together. That's wrong and government is actually the worst instrument for doing this as well as the least ethical. Corporations take advantage of it all the time yet you don't feel unethical for doing the same?

Every time government is used as a band aid for a societal problem that is a failure of society and means that you are threatening some group with a gun to their head and threats of being thrown in cages. And the power that government officials wield is almost absolute so it corrupts them absolutely. Once someone is in government it's in their best interest to gain more power for their position and every time the public surrenders control to them they take and inch but really will be taking a mile in the future.

This is true. They allow the political teams to argue over irrelevancies while things that actually matter (ESF shenanigans, water ownership, hypermilitarization, GMOs/terminator seeds, data collection, etc) progress outside of most people's realm of thought. We're so bombarded with superficial news that it's difficult to actually sift through it to discover what things of importance are taking place. Even when we do get actual news, it's just reporting that X event happened. What aren't told is: 'What preceding events led to X happening? What do all factions involved with X believe and why do they disagree? Who stands to benefit from X occurring?'

Having 24/7 'news' channels tricked us into believing we were actually informed, but they're just glorified daytime talk shows.

If you're partisan you're not seeking truth. Truth isn't black and white or red and blue. You're backing your team because they represent you and support your interest and you benefit.

heavily invested in the left/right paradigm politically?

Name one here.

To take what u said a step further, i believe a large percentage of people just dont care that much about politics in general...russia or not, trump, etc...many people dont want to focus on politics as much as sone of us might. Cant say i blame them either, tbh. Its all a big shitshow. So what u end up with is the small percentage of very vocal people from every side screaming online. But if u talk to the average person on the street they probably are not too passionate....

You fucken said it man

yeah, I wish I could disenfranchise 3/4ths of the nation and establish a temporary Caesar-like dictatorship to root out the issues before re-implementing a more fair republic

Fuck the Left and the Right

A lot of people are really sold on Trump being different with Republicans and Democrats both hating him.

I mean... he green lit weapons sales to the Ukraine. Why would Putin let him do that?

If I was told that it was Israel, not Russia, I'd be way way more on board with this. It just smacks too much of McCarthyism. Plus Jill Stein is a Russian agent now?

Haha thank you. It is all the same bullshit game. No party or person is different. I can't believe I am on /r/conspiracy most of the time

Thisssss. Say anything against Trump and get called a Hillary slave, say anything against Hillary and get called a Trumpet.

It's like people cannot critically think anymore this extends beyond politics by the way--- tell a female who is black to take up knitting and you'll be called sexist racist and mysoginistic

Look at Bilderberg and the union of corporation and state, both parties are invited to attend.

Stop acting like you speak for everyone on this sub. Another post making it seem crazy to think russia has done anything. Where have I seen that tactic before...?

Sounds about right to me

Lol you clearly tried speaking for this whole sub. Your agenda has been super obvious from day one.

He didn't accuse of you of trying to speak for the sub by being a mod. You're being accused of trying to speak for the sub by saying things like "us conspiracy theorists" and "most conspiracy theorists"

It's equally ridiculous that all conspiracy theorists are being expected by you not to embrace the Russian Collusion theory. Even your language here is loaded, using the retarded Russiagate term and the phrase "narrative".

You think you can use fake news direct quotes against these people?

You are so obviously a paid shill, holy shit. All you’ve done is deflect and project.

Go back to whatever right wing think tank is paying you.

The most shocking aspect of this entire debacle is how many folks are upset with us conspiracy theorists for not jumping on their bandwagon

You're implying every conspiracy theorist thinks the same thing you do.

It's just hilarious seeing someone grab onto anything whatsoever for dear life to try to prove their wrong point when being drowned with facts

This drives me crazy. Even if Russia is guilty of everything accused of them. It comes down to "Hacking emails" (read phishing), and reddit shills, twitter bots, and facebook posts. The grand conspiracy from this angle is that Russia stole the election... with email phishing, reddit shills, twitter bots, and facebook posts.

See how silly that sounds. How is that going to delegitimize an election? I have no doubt Russia tried/did these things, as they have for decades, but it amounts to NOTHING. It does not delegitimize our democracy or our election.

Like OP said, the "hacks" just showed DNC's corruption. That’s it. That was the only real effect. And well that was the DNCs fault.

And Trumps collusion? "I'll lower sanctions if you expose the DNCs corruption. Oh and also make fake facebook posts. K thnx bye great working with you." --- SILLY

Name one thing that Russia and Trump is accused of except what I listed. Because that is the CNN narrative when you really look at it.

Id much rather look into Trumps shady business dealings or his current decision making as president.

But it’s clear as day to me. As it was in those emails during the election. That MSM is the one doing the colluding.

I never post but I needed to here... uggg

How is that going to delegitimize an election? I have no doubt Russia tried/did these things, as they have for decades, but it amounts to NOTHING. It does not delegitimize our democracy or our election.

thats not what the investigation is about. Yes, they tried to do that, and im sure USA does that as well. Its geopolitics. The patriots dont get mad that the steelers want to score touchdowns on them.

The investigation is about whether a candidate promised favorable legislation to a rival nation in exchange for help getting elected and/or personal gain.

Yeah but what form did that help come in allegedly? An email dump and shills.

How is that help in getting elected and/or personal gain.

The personal gain I can see as Trump has businesses everywhere. But thats not what everyone is talking about. Its Russia hacked the election in exchange for sanctions being lowered. I dont see how anyone can reach that conclusion when they look closely enough.

It was an email dump.

And reddit shills, twitter bots, and fake facebook posts.

Thats all people. And even that hasn't been proved 100%. And even if it was. It doesn't change the course of anything.

So who got what? Trump got that. And Russia got what? The sanctions havent been voted back into place yet perhaps. Either way it doesnt seem like this grand conspiracy.

Trump received nothing of value.

Yet people talk like Russia is the only reason he is prez. Which is misinfo and pulls us away from all the real issues. THATS the conspiracy if you ask me. And we know 100% MSM has done it many times before. We know they did it during the election.

I'm just talking in this one instance. I'm personally sure Trump is part of the elite and all that, but this Russia narrative is BS and I'm sure its there to hide something or set us up for something else.

I understand the reason for the investigation. Its obviously worth looking into. But people take it as fact when they havent even really looked at the underlying context.

One more time.

It was an email dump.

And reddit shills, twitter bots, and fake facebook posts.

Trump has businesses everywhere

people absolutely are talking about his business relations. I know theres a lot of noise out there, there is definitely some bullshit to filter out, but there are people getting to the root of the matter if you care to look into it.

Thats all people.

Thats not all

The sanctions were voted on by congress, not implemented by the trump admin. trump even apoligized to putin as he had to sign them. interesting.

Yet people talk like Russia is the only reason he is prez.

sure some people do, you can ignore those people. very few things in life happen for one reason.

Trump is a crazy person. Who knows why he does the things he does. But your right we should ignore these people. But those are the very people that OP is talking about. And the MSM almost entirely talks as if Russia is the only reason Trump is prez and that it has basically been proven 100% true already.

It has definitely turned otherwise rational people into babbling paranoiacs.

its important to remember that just because people agree with you doesnt mean they are smart or good

Of course. I don't necessarily agree with anyone. I just love the quote by Aristotle

" It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

but the email dump was in exchange for undoing sanctions placed the previous admin.

you're saying this is not "quid pro quo" and you're wrong, this is the dictionary definition of quid pro quo, or do for me and i'll do for you.

Hmmm yeah actually this is a fair point. And I suppose the the email dump did in fact make a difference in the election.

I guess I just get annoyed at "Hacking" and "Stealing" the election. Its the hyperbole of it all.

I don’t see MSM saying... "Granted the email dump only exposed the truth, but it may have been obtained illegally in a quid pro quo matter"

Instead I see all over the news and kids parroting here, "Russia, Putin himself, with Trumps blessing, hacked the election and thus stole the presidency away from Clinton." When in reality it was something much more nuanced. A crappy password phished from an email that exposed a crooked DNC.

It would be a much more intelligent and honest conversation if it was read out and as it happened in reality.

I agree with OP however. The MSM coverage of this issue has turned otherwise rational people into babbling paranoiacs.

But I concede that if everything is true it would have been a quid pro quo situation, however how much it was lopsided in Russia's favor.

Are you trying to get upvotes?....because this is how you get them. Upvoted. The greatest conspiracy of the last year and a half is that the MSM has everyone believing that Trump colluded witht the Russians. The russians meddled in our elections with ads that American companies sold to them gladly. Beyond that, the sheep are obidient to the MSM which should have been the first clue it was BS.

ikr...good post brother....well said.

And there it is the TMOR scapegoat. Its not that many users here dont agree with you but it must be a brigade suppressing the real users around here.

Hear fucking hear. Could not agree more. This site is so incredibly astroturfed with this bullshit every single day. Like clockwork there will be a group of totally genuine conspiracy subscribers shitting all over this with conspicuously high upvote counts while the real users are of course downvoted into obscurity.

They used to claim that they "wandered in here from r/all". Now I guess they no longer hide the fact they sit in new waiting to pounce on the next topic that implicates the democratic party or goes against the trump collusion narrative.

There will be at least a half dozen "this sub is the Donald 2.0" attacks which will curiously be highly upvoted by all of our "Donald supporters".

I know you're more tolerant than I am, I would ban these accounts in a heartbeat and end this shit once and for all. I'm tired of this sub looking more like top minds than conspiracy.

/u/axolotly_peyotl :

Trump has proven to be a useful idiot that they've used to unite otherwise free-thinking and intelligent individuals into an incredibly destructive circle-jerking feedback loop that is having an extremely deleterious effect on society on an individual and collective level.

top minds: "I don't understand what you just said so I'm going to continue assuming that you're a paid Cambridge Analytica troll for Trump, this sub is compromised, The_Donald 2.0"

hasn't ever stopped me =p

The fact that this got down voted to hell shows the MSM is winning the info war.

What if its the failure of the rightwing propaganda to discredit the Trump/russia stuff instead of the MSM winning?

Otherwise rational people?

You give poeple far too much credit. Poeple are dumb as fucking shit. Do you not see the shit hole of a society we live in?

This is hell. We live in hell. Everything is inverted. You are focusing on petty details and distractions.

It's interesting to me that posts like this are only ever made about Trump/Russia.

I don't think people are expecting every single conspiracy person to automatically jump at the story and believe it, but it's the fact that so many conspiracy minded people are outright calling it fake and burying their head in the sands.

What is this obsession with "MSM says something so it must be false and you're an idiot for believing it"?. Is the opposite true as well? If a MSM source says something isn't true, does that mean you think we should immediately believe it to be true? What about when MSM disagrees? If Fox says it's true and CNN says it's false?

You're proud of r/conspiracy for not immediately believing a MSM story trending. I am too, but I'm not proud of r/conspiracy for seemingly being unwilling to even discuss it, for tagging only stories that deal with it, and for making posts like this saying that you can't believe people would believe it.

There is no other conspiracy that is as vigerously attacked in this sub as the Trump Russia conspiracy.

It's the only conspiracy to have DAILY posts saying that there is nothing to see here move along.

Shit there were old mods who would ban people for not following the established narrative of this sub about trump/russia.

Seeing as this is the only subject the owners of this sub try and actively block I think it's a pretty big and there is something there.

Plus we already know for a fact that jr. Colluded/attempted to collude with the Russian government to get daddy elected. There is no question of IF it happened. It's how much happened and who knew.

Example Flytape and Dronepuppet before they were removed for their failed take over.

I would think you would remember those days.

Flytape was extremely ban-happy with anybody who disagreed with him on any subject.

no other conspiracy that is as vigerously attacked in this sub

Wipping out the victim card is pathetic!

Such a conspiracy worthy of investigation.

Russia shows America what crimes a political candidate committed.

Tell me again why I should care who tells me what crimes my government is participating in?

Wait so the discussion now they did it but they are heros? I thought the narrative was it never happened?

It doesn't matter who did it. NK Kim could've dumped the info for all I care.

What's important:

1) The Intelligence agencies forged the Guccifer leaks to discredit wikileaks (Bill Binney knows)

2) The leaks reveal real crimes committed by Hillary and the DNC

As long as you feel the same way about Hillary and the dems, then that's fair you want to stay in the dark.

What does that sentence mean?

We have clear proof of Hillary's crimes via leaks.

If Russia or anyone else leaked Donald \ RNC data we could get the full picture.

I wholeheartedly approve of the info dumps whoever they target.

The entire mainstream media has been talking about and exploring every inch of the Trump/Russia theory for over a year now, ad nauseam. There is an entire investigation into it.

And you think that some mods on the r/conspiracy forum of reddit are going out of their way to stop conversation about it?

It's not think it's a fact. Flytape tried to take over this sub to shut down all critism of Trump and discussion of Trump and Russia. This ain't exactly a secret.

Do you have a source for that?

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that Trump is in bed with the Russian mob and has been for years.

They have saved his bacon s few times and he helps them launder their money. A symbiotic relationship.

I don't believe in many conspiracy theories, but this is one that I think is real

The karma in this thread’s comments proves astroturfing. GG shillfucks

Excellent post

Great post, OP!

But it sure looks like this reddit has become the target of TPTB. A wave of comments that have no place in a conspiracy subreddit.

God forbid that there are citizens who can research, think for themselves, who encourage others to do the same and have a place to do it.

Yeah wtf are these top level comments? What a huge coordinated hit job. Keep striking the nerve, man. They are desperate.

Thank god haha i was getting really worried about it affecting you. r/conspiracy needs you.

Looks like they are stepping up their game

It's been great to see! :-)

After seeing where the comments are headed I find myself wondering how many of you have ever looked into Mccarthy and his silly little hearings on supposed communists in the 50s. That was the big news of the day and turned out to be a load of crap. Don't put the cart before the horse-food for thought.

Strictly based on what Putin has said in the past(I don't claim to know what he thinks of course) he seems directly opposed to the lies and disinformation the main stream media in the west pours on the people.

He clearly doesn't want world war 3 either. I don't think anybody rational does.

I really hope most Americans don't view the Russian and Chinese people as 'the enemy'. How many times does our species have to go down the same path? We shouldn't be opposing these great peoples, we should be working with them.

I don't have any Russian or Chinese ancestry either btw. The only dog I have in this fight is helping try to break the 'bs paradigms'.

In as far as the Democratic or Republican parties, both are wildly corrupt and neither party should necessarily be trusted regardless of what is said. I take all of it with a massive grain of salt, as recent history shows the level of 'not always accurate' slander thrown about from both sides.

nobody is against the russian people. this is putin (more accurately, the govt and intel agencies of russia, who dont seem to be all that friendly to russian people in fact) vs the equivaleny in america. Geopolitics.

Just wanted to make that clear to readers. as for the rest of your post, i feel like ive seen these talking points before (ww3, putin wants to help americans, xenophobia, not a russian, your govt is corrupt)

If that's true, great! These are people we should be allied with, not opposed to.

Good, bad, right or wrong I actually like Putin. At least he's -real-!

i bet

Onion layers of deception. Many of us are conditioned to think if MSM is bashing Trump, he must be Our Guy. Meanwhile, foreign policy continues unabated, and Russia is ramping up for war.

Putin: Trump's New Security Strategy is Definitely Offensive

For sure, I think that's one of the primary purposes of Trump: to divide the American people as much as possible. What worries me is that I can't see any Deep State chess move that comes after BURN THE MSM, HOLLYWOOD, & DNC that isn't really, really bad -- not that those things shouldn't happen, but it's like they're painting themselves into a corner because they no longer care about future public opinion.

I think it goes one or two ways. We either get this “great divide” with blue v red, or black v white, or whatever you want to call it; and things go to absolute dog shit. Then one day along comes a “savior” of sorts and unified the entire country under one flag just seconds before the break of civil war. We put aside our differences and fall under a new rule which is unlike anything we’ be seen before. One day we wake up and realize we are actual slaves to a very few select elites and things are too far gone to ever go back. They’ve won. When I say this I don’t mean like how it is now, I mean we reduce ourselves so much because they were “driving us apart” (ie no credit cards, mortgages, loans, cars, TVs, etc), and we start a “utopia” (read “hell”) where we work 20 hour days and eat scraps. North Korea will seem like a pipe dream.

The other option (which I think is the most likely) is Trump leads us to a war with [insert country here]. It won’t matter whom with, and it won’t be a quick victory. This country will have some backing from some other shit country (this will all be planned by the way, by TPTB) and we will enter into a multi-front war. This will likely escalate in a manner that invokes another (major) country to become involved and will probably spark a WWIII type event. Things will seem ok on the home front because the economy will boom and we will get lots of good news of “winning the war” and we will be driven into a shitty situation that the next president will gladly take over. Meanwhile the global elites will be making background moves which will further their power post-war (ie new laws, protections, who cares) and eventually we will be living in the same hell previously mentioned in scenario 1, just will less work and more scraps.

It likely won’t be us, but one day an average global citizen will wake up and realize that there is nothing to dream for, and that we did it to ourselves.

The reason I think option 2 is likely is because the US is definitely gearing up for something. I know of 2 recent deployments on national guard regiments from two states on opposite ends of the country. I couldn’t get details obviously, and even if I did I probably wouldn’t put them on here, but we aren’t heavily active anywhere that I know of right now and we don’t have a pressing need to rotate national guard at any front so something seems fishy about both of these deployments. We are on the offensive but I don’t know where or why.

Russia’s plan? I’d agree pretty heavily

It's Russia's plan to start a war with the US now? You people move the narrative around too much.

divide and conquer

not a war with bullets, at least

This is in a thread talking about Trump arming Ukrainian forces fighting Russia. Where Putin says it "Crosses a line". That's war with bullets.

Theres actually a jailed Russian who claims he was instructed to hack the DNC by the DNC. You can Google it, it's been posted here. Obviously a quack job. The job of a conspiracy theorists isn't to believe conspiracies, it's to challenge the narrative. We know the media is owned by wealthy interests and they have agendas, that's why we don't take it at face value we look for truth. If anything we should take back the misnomer the cia chose for us and change it to truth seekers because that's what conspiracy theorists are supposed to be. Most clearly are not, many are just interesting alternative reality seekers. Given how much propaganda is in the media you could say the same of anyone.

Anyway a lot of the Russian outrage is clearly manufactured from the MSM. Any genuine discussion about it would be about geopolitics in general, and Americas espionage, not more red scare. It's also clear a lot of it is just trying to impeach trump out if anger he won, not anger as a result of the inconsequential Russian intervention. I hate trump as much as the next but the Russian interference was ultimately very minimal. If we're going to say Russian propoganda had an effect then we'd have to put Facebook, Google, and walk at the top of that list too.

I also sincerely doubt most people on either side know the full details. It's just a shouting match at this point. Politics is the new sports of the 80s/90s,pointless outrage for no real reason except that the people at the top are wanting it.

I’m no conspiracy nut but I do recognize when the majority of the MSM organizes to push a specific story, in this case the Russia/Trump collision story is mostly conjecture based off loose circumstantial evidence, at best. This isn’t the standard approach for our MSM, there’s typically more verifiable facts needed to warrant this level of coverage and attention, MSM doesn’t often deal in conspiracies.

As an average logical person I have to question the MSM narrative simply because it seems so forced and manipulative, preying on emotions rather than dealing in facts and reason.

The Swamp is in full defensive mode. Don't think logic or rationale. Think desparate melt down.

Just from your Cold War identification, there was some reports that Russian arms were a hoax. Not that it matters but it's funny how stupid this nonsense is. Still Russia only has one aircraft carrier.

Because Russia really needs a sitting duck boat with 6000 people on it, in this day and age and in their geographical location. :)

Last I checked, we STILL don't have our president's financial records. So, I find it odd for anyone who claims themselves to be a devout critical thinker to also see no room for a conspiracy where a washed up conman becomes indebted to Russian Oligarchs and thereby under their thumb.

It's a simple a to b problem. You want to prove there is no fire where there is smoke, why not release your financial records?

just imagine if obama or hillary refused to release every page of their returns. These fake users don't even touch that subject. they can't because they know where it leads.

Or imagine if Hillary, under a subpoena deleted 33k emails which were requested.

Oh wait, she did

muh hillary.

Well its the same no?

Wait no it isnt. Trump's taxes have no obligation to be release. Meanwhile Hillary was legally required to

pathetic. Just more deflection and water carrying for a corrupt sitting president and their continued refusal to release their tax returns.

you do know you are in a conspiracy sub, not the donald.

Oh I didnt realise

DUMPF RELESE UR TAXES AND IT WILL SHOW US ALL THE MONEY YOU GOT FROM RUSSIA!

Better? Now. You as an armchair, reddit tax professional would know more about his taxes - and the resulting collusion which would be exposed and used against him, than the IRS?

keep trying troll.

Im not claiming anything.

What do you as a tax professional expect to use Trump's tax returns for other than a political attack on him?

why are you opposed to a politician not releasing their tax returns and why are you such a trump water carrier as evidenced by your posts on td?

You're dodging the question

no you are. or is this childish behavior the norm for you?

Why do you think it's ok for a politician to refuse to release their tax returns?

Because there is nothing you or the bias media will use them for other than political attacks. Thats like Hillary releasing her 33k emails(no matter how many of them were yoga pictures). It'd only be used to attack her and the IRS and any investigation would know better about the laws and possible wrongdoings than you ever would.

I'd ask you to answer my question but I know you dont have one

good. now you're on record supporting the refusal of a politician to release their tax returns even while under FBI investigation.

enjoy.

Oof you got me

A person has no obligation to release their tax returns ever

Answer my question now bub

Removed. Rule 10.

Imagine if Obama didn’t release his long form birth certificate (never needed by any other president in history)

I'm a trump supporter so I'm probably a little biased. But I have no doubts that he won't release financial records because he has skirted tax rules and things like that in the past which the it's may or may not have penalized him for but he knows that the man and the rabid anti trumpers will make mountains of his mole hills. I'm ok with because he was purely a businessman and everybody could and should "reduce tax liability".

Yes, you've rationalized it to yourself in a nice tidy bow there.

Lol how is the internet connection way down there in the salt mines? Do you think after 18 months of mainstream media frantically searching they're finally going to find something?

'hes probably a small time criminal telling us white lies'

what if youre wrong and he has committed massive fraud, laundered money for the mafia/russia and is completely untrustworthy? you dont know. why not hold him accountable since hes been granted such great power by his constituents?

If he was a career criminal someone would have sold the info to the press already. Do you think that the intelligence services dont do a thorough examination of presidential candidates, their funding, their livelihoods? On this subreddit? I do hold him accountable, he has already fulfilled a lot of his campaign promises. He never promised to show his tax returns because as he said he was under audit by the irs.

if you knew the guy was a career criminal, and could prove it, why not work your connection in the FUCKING WHITE HOUSE?

So, I find it odd for anyone who claims themselves to be a devout critical thinker to also see no room for a conspiracy where a washed up conman becomes indebted to Russian Oligarchs and thereby under their thumb.

I find it odd that you think publicly known business debt could lead to blackmail. By that logic, anyone with a credit card could be blackmailed.

its one reason the govt looks into your financial records when applying for a security clearance :)

Wait till Russia invades a major European ally and the Trump admin does nothing about it.

Like Obama and the Ukraine? Or somehow does he get a pass because you like him? The promise of is defending them if they got rid of their nukes if Russia didn't apply, because?

Not to seem like a Trump fan but technically it wouldn’t be uncommon for the US to “do nothing” after a major European ally was invaded. We have two major wars that prove we would be better served “staying out of it” (read that as “sending aid”) and waiting to see how it plays out.

I’m not saying that’s how you could interpret a non-action by Trump but there’s an argument to be made that he was following precedent.

Again, I’m not a Trump shill, just pointing out historical facts about previous situations such as the one proposed by OP!

Yeah it's full wartime propaganda mode right now. Just look at all the shills ITT coming over from political spam subs to tell us evil Putin hacked the election for Drumpf.

We should all make fresh 18 day old accounts to try and pass ourself off as unbiased “woke thinkers”, like you :)

le account age meme

cringe

le calling out other subs meme

cringe

Show me some tangible evidence and I'll gladly hop on the Russian bandwagon. Sadly some of us require more then hear say to pick up the pitchforks.

"American voters became more informed about the election and the election process as a result. The "hack" resulted in more transparency and more informed voters."

They're not more informed when their information is filtered through sites like 4chan, where emails about grabbing pizza are instantly construed as a conspiracy, because some guy extrapolates their communitys esoteric codeword onto Hillary Clintons emails.

I totally agree. I also saw the shit-show in /r/worldnews today that no one bought, which triggered the paranoid TDS nuts into thinking the whole sub was shilled by evil T_D forces. It is really funny how the top comments here, blasted with comment sliding upvotes, just prove your point.

First of all, let’s assume that the Kremlin did hack the DNC. What exactly happened as a result of this “hack”? Well, the DNC was exposed for the corrupt abomination that it is.

Completely baseless accusation passed on as fact...and you wonder why people don’t believe you.

Read:

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

Lol seems legit.

The links at that site go back to the actual wikileak emails that are google DKIM certified. If you don't believe the analysis, read the source emails yourself.

DNC was exposed for the corrupt abomination that it is

These leaks do not support this grandiose accusation. I’m not doubting that there was foul play, but he’s using this as an umbrella statement.

Fire this stupid asshole. People who use their mod powers to shill for partisan hacks should not be mods. Be impartial or be nothing.

There was nothing damning or remotely surprising in the Podesta emails. Our country is under a criminal administration that is actively robbing us by using our tax dollars to line his own pockets. This is happening in no small part due to a conspiracy on the part of Russia to trick America's most stupid demographic into voting for a pro-Russia shill with 0 integrity and 0 care about anyone other than himself. The Russian government committed a crime under our laws when they attacked our electoral process. The Trump team committed a crime when they helped them do this, something which is far more serious. Donald Trump committed a crime when he fired James Comey in a laughably stupid attempt to cover up this malfeasance.

You got duped. You're not some secret super genius charged by god to lead the conspiracy movement, you are a rube who was wrong about something, didn't want to admit so you doubled down on it. Now 40 double downs later you sound so goddamn stupid it's incomprehensible.

"There was nothing damning or remotely surprising in the Podesta emails."

Are you fucking kidding me? They admitted that Saudi Arabia and Qatar funded ISIS, that had not been admitted on record by any democrats.

I'm not a mod you idiot, so there's no problem with me not being impartial. I'd cite the specific laws and statutes which have been broken but it has been done to death in this forum and you are too busy slobbering filthy traitor cock to read them and are too stupid to understand them anyway.

Truth hurts, cock slobbering scum

There is literally nothing nefarious in the Podesta emails. Any claims of “secret pedo code words” can be easily debunked by actually reading the full emails.

How did the Joker become a mod on r/conspiracy? 🤔

As intellectually dishonest as axolotl_peyotl is on this issue, I haven't actually noticed him abusing mod powers on it lately. Mods should be able to express themselves as users, as long as they make the effort to keep that separate from their mod duties.

Agreed.

The MSM has successfully turned otherwise rational people into babbling paranoiacs.

We're they really ever as "rational" as you say?

It's just like the "fake news" meme. There was no golden age if journalism. The news has always been fake.

"fake news" doesn't refer to any change in credibility of news establishments. Youre right, theyve always been what they are now, more or less.

"Fake news" is a smokescreen for blatant propaganda. These idiots have been mindlessly consuming opnions-as-news on Fox for decades. They no longer have any interest in facts or evidence, but they want to pretend that everyone else is just as bad or worse than them. The online "news" outlets if the far right see an opportunity for advancing both economically and ideologically. For them to be successful they have to convince their audience that reliable sources of factual news reporting doesn't exist, so thst they won't be held to any standards whatsoever, and can then fabricate or repeat whatever lie might help them the most in that moment.

"Fake news" is a smokescreen for blatant propaganda. These idiots have been mindlessly consuming opnions-as-news on Fox for decades.

You're not very woke if you sincerely believe this is a unique vice of the American right.

The only difference I notice is that center-left/"progressive" journos are much slicker when they lie.

Can we put it to a vote to de-mod this guy already? He is the most politically biased poster in conspiracy and he’s a mod. It’s ridiculous.

Ok, how shall this vote work? Put your rubles where your mouth is.

I'm sorry to tell you conspiracy theorists are scientists of sorts. Open minded to new ideas. Willing to entertain a hypothesis.

If evidence presents itself the hypothesis gains traction. If not it's rejected.

Mccarthysim is rejected as it is unsupported.

The original hypothesis Russia hacked the end, has been abandoned.

It has now morphed to Russia collusion with Jill Stein, Russian Corp lawyers and general business dealings. Some evidence mostly not.

Collusion is not a crime and expected amongst business people especially given the fall of the Soviet union.

So the open minded are open to negativity a theory just as as affirming it.

Russian hysteria, as of now, is rejected as baseless.

It will only to serve to help Trump in 2020 now.

It will be leveled against Bernie too.

From my point 9f veiw, the Jedi are evil.

Whenever MSM gets to focused on a certain subject I tend to think who benefits out of this and why. This Russia collusion story COULD have some weight to it. Especially after watching this https://youtu.be/QJ2fMeer5Mw But then again it could be for something bigger. I think the Government realizes they are on the losing end of this fight and it's to late to change the mind of the average American. They may have to resort to an alien invastion, war with North Korea, the US dollar crashing because of crypto, rise of the middle lower class and the fact that people are waking up and if you're not awake you're considered an idiot. We're winning ya'll still got a long ways to go. But once we're able to sustain ourselves fully using energy from the sun in a remote area and no longer need to an entity to govern our lives we'll really be living and growing and hopefully become the enlightened Gods we once were.

I used to think maybe Russia helped get Trump elected. It makes sense as a geopolitical play. But I was skeptical of any sort of direct cooperation with Camp Trump. But every week there's more and more evidence, indictments have come down, people have pled guilty and turned state's witness. Trump, Kushner and the rest seem only able to act guilty.

Yeah, we need to wary of the mainstream media narrative, but there's just too much to this Russia story to ignore. Who, after being widely accused of being Putin's puppet, would take a secret one-on-one meeting with Putin? It seems more and more likely Vladimir has Trump by the balls, which would be a historically big deal.

but there's just too much to this Russia story to ignore

no its not, because all it is its a STORY and nothing more. MSM just spams shitty storys over and over again and the stupid sheeps start to believe it. even when there was never evidence at all.

From here (outside america) it really loooks funny how easily americans can be manipulated in a so short time. for you guys the russians are now what the jews was for germany PRE-ww2. something goes wrong? blame the russians.

But nose to high to even realize this

Hello Comrade

So much BS in this Shill thread.

Things like:

1. Don't actually believe a real conspiracy, because Pappa Putin will get mad.

2. Never hold the Republicans to account, promote the logical fallacy that both sides are completely equal, as....Republicans proceed to raid the treasury.

3. Keep on target: Only mention Hillary, Dems, Podesta or Pizzagate.

4. Republican Pedos? Gosh....Umm.... just ignore...

This sub needs a thorough cleaning of house.

Yes, pleases leave. The exit is right there.

Ive been shouting it all day long.

Bro, there has been like 3 major fake stories on the MSM in past month. No one believes there bullshit

That's right the hacks revealed alot about the DNC and it's relationship with the MSM, because Time Warner funded Hillary Campaign and they own CNN, especially how they worked against Bernie Sanders campaign, particularly how they gave debate questions to Hillary before the debate. Fake News my ass.

Although all of that is true, and none of it is good, it is sadly also not illegal. I genuinely wish it was illegal. I genuinely would like to see Hillary and DNC prosecuted for all sorts of unethical and legally grey actions.

Sadly though, there's no laws against whst they did, because they own and are the lawmakers.

Knowingly accepting election assistance from a foreign government, on the other hand, has always been a crime. Only an idiot would ask for a foreign government to hack your opponent is a US presidential election. Thats not sufficient evidence of a crime, but its about as dumb as they come.

The worst thing about all of this, the WORST thing, is that Israel is and has been meddling in US politics a thousand times more and no one says shit about that.

I dont know why you're being downvoted, but if i had to guesd its because the new mods run this place exactly like T_D. Fall in line or GBTFO.

I just don’t understand how people that are so distrusting they will not believe a single thing told to them, that believe that giants and 4th dimensional beings are controlling the world, are taking the side of the MSM and people like Hillary fucking Clinton that the Russians basically controlled the US election. I’ll see people talk about how George Soros is a war criminal in Russia and then immediately turn around and take him and his puppets sides on this Russian conspiracy bullshit.

But, didn't you hear about the Face Book ads Russia bought?! They were ads for Hillary and BLM. That clearly shows they were helping Trump during the campaign.

I just don’t understand how people that are so distrusting they will not believe a single thing told to them, that believe that giants and 4th dimensional beings are controlling the world, are taking the side of the President and people like Donald fucking Trump that the Russians didn't influence the US election. I’ll see people talk about how George Soros is a war criminal in Russia and then immediately turn around and take Trump and his puppets sides on this Russian conspiracy.

Show me evidence they influenced the election.

You're right, Pizzagate and Seth Rich never happened.

Where you're wrong is that you can't pretend the hack itself didnt happen.

I'm so proud of this sub too. We protect Trump here come hell or high water. All Russia news is FAKE news. All connections between the Trump campaign and Russia is FAKE news. The Dossier is FAKE news. Manafort being under FBI investigation is a travesty of American justice. Flynn pleading guilty is good for Trump, not bad. Papadopoulos pleading guilty to making false statements to FBI agents about contacts he had with the Russian government is FAKE news. Mueller is corrupt. The entire FBI supports Hillary and Obama and we should purge all agents and give them a loyalty test.

There have been no connections between Trump and Russia, at all. He has no business interest in Russia. The meeting between Trump Jr. and people with Russia interests is FAKE news. The entire investigation is a total witch hunt and isn't based in reality.

If the tables were turned, we Republicans would recognize that this is pure McCarthyism and we would give the demorats the benefit of the doubt, just like we've always done with Obama, Hillary, Podesta, etc.

Thankfully we have a mod setting us straight.

So what if Russia DID hack the DNC? They exposed corruption and that makes it okay.

Republicans before election - election is hacked in Dems favor!

Dems before election - elections can't be manipulated in America!

Dems after election. - election was hacked for republicans

Republican - elections cant be manipulated in America!

americans on reddit: there can only be 2 sides! my side or my enemy!

They are all on the same side compared to us

Delete this post too mod. Did I hurt your feelings or something?

Must be nice to start a thread and have the power to delete the replies that you believe don't fit your narrative.

Yeah, sure.

Shareblue brigades this sub heavily because this subreddit doesn't accept their "Russiagate" conspiracy as easily as r/politics. And it's obvious when these brigaders show up with their snarky "This is the Donald 2.0" , "Pizzagate" posts, and the downvotes for any who questions their narrative.

You state that like it’s a fact. Show evidence, or preface with “I believe...” otherwise you’re just disingenuous.

It's obvious when you see posts that go against the narrative get downvoted, and the top voted comments sound snarky and sound representative of r/politics which posts articles from shareblue.com.

Nice try tho.

Trying to preepmt the truth by claiming that anyone who believes or spreads the truth is somehow fake?

Gee, it's almost as if you've only been here since the election and don't understand where you really are. It's almost as if your entire purpose here is deflection and partisanship. It's almost as if... Youre from t_d, you talk about "shareblue", you accuse everyone else of brigading even though you help take small subs hostage to spread extreme partisanship, and of using vote manipulation to rig reddit against you.

Who the fuck do you think you will fool? Idiots that voted for a billionaire in a trucker hat? We're used to dealing with CIA propaganda. Yours is a hundred years out of date (i bet it works great in Alabama, too bad you still couldn't get your child molester buddy elected!)

Where's the proof that Russia colluded with Trump to hack the DNC emails? Which has been proven to be a leak rather than a hack even from a left wing source The Nation.

And Robert Mueller has never contacted Julian Assange who would know where the leak came from

For your info I voted for Gary Johnson. Look at my post history.

Bibi, Adelson, and the Al-Sauds are pulling Trump's strings:

Russia is just a distraction from what's really going on in the Oval Office and at Camp David.

How dare you mention a conspiracy that doesn't paint Trump as a victim!

J/k have an upvote, keep fighting against the real powers that be

Thanks.

I knew Trump was going to be a disaster domestically (I'm not a Democrat or even an American though), but I was hoping for an improvement from Bush-Clinton neoconservativism on the foreign policy front.

Unfortunately, I failed to considered the implications of Sheldon Adelson's involvement and here we are.

I've loathed Adelson since 2011.

I used to be a winning recreational poker player online but was never good enough to take it further. The Adelson-orchestrated ban against online poker in the United States kicked a lot of shitty players off the online rooms and probably cost me a few grand by no longer making it profitable for me to play.

Russiagate is what happens when people who can't "conspiracy" dabble in conspiracy.

Fucking amateurs. ;-)

Just like Pizzagate and Benghazi?

Obviously I believe in conspiracies, even those that are far fetched. I guess with this whole Trump/Russia thing anyone else would just keep their mouth shut, guilty or not. But Trump just keeps banging on about it, or trying to push Hillary getting prosecuted.

Wouldn't it be better to keep quiet, and act like nothing has happened?

That's not the President's style. He says he innocent, so he goes after anyone saying he's not. Instead of hiding and waiting for others to say he's innocent he tweets it from every mountain top.

Going after people with lawyers, money, and mob friends certainly worked for him for a long time. But he has no idea how big a storm he has started. These aren’t NYC council members or society page rivals he’s up against. These are serious people at the top of their games. He’s severely outmatched.

Certainly the RNC and congressional leaders think so.

you can see now live how some stupid shit like the cold war could happen ... so easy to manipulate the stupid sheeps

You mean, all you inbred fucks that are still scared shitless of communism?

The media and the folks behind it want another red scare. That simple.

Yeah, the left is trying to make people afraid of communism. Its so obvious!!

Not communism, just general Russian influence. We need an enemy in the shadows since people have grown apathetic over terrorism and North Korea is a boogeyman.

Sabbath777 already commented about how astonishing it is that so many people view every conspiracy theory through the lens of their political paradigm. I'll echo that comment, but I want to add a little more to it.

There is a war going on right now for control of the United States. You would have to be blind and deaf not to see it. The Storm has been coming for a long time now and is nearly upon us. On the one side we have the "Cabal" (for lack of a better word) that has been firmly in control of the Deep State and the mainstream media. On the other, we have "the Resistance" (again, for lack of a better word... its what they seem to call themselves). But who exactly are the players and what exactly do both sides ultimately want? What does the picture look like if one side or the other "wins"? Can either side really "win"? I doubt anyone reading this post actually knows for sure. I certainly don't.

But the weapons of this war are plain enough to see. False allegations, fake news, disinformation, distractions, divisions and narrative narrative narrative. As both sides get more frantic, we will see more extreme things starting to happen. The mainstream media will continue to double down on the zeitgeist it is trying to create, while the other side will continue to push wild conspiracy theories that might very well be true but how can we really know. What do we really know?

The whole Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative divide is just another aspect of this contest. A tool of manipulation and control. Try to look past it. Expand your thinking.

Long time theorist, not shocked at all people like you have infiltrated our site and are more worried about a pizza shop than the President colluding with our greatest enemy. The amazing thing is this sub isn't on this 24/7. Presidents national security advisor apparently made a deal to kidnap a dissident and you don't see one story on it on this sub. Its almost like a conspiracy or something.

"...infiltrated our site..."?

Hmm, interesting choice of words.

"President colluding with our greatest enemy."

Sure.

"The amazing thing is this sub isn't on this 24/7."

No it's not.

"Presidents national security advisor apparently made a deal to kidnap a dissident and you don't see one story on it on this sub."

Haven't read much on Gulen have you?

As a, "long time theorist", you seem to be lacking in actual "conspiracy".

In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and, based on your comments, say you're not really conspiracy theorist at all.

That's probably a compliment, right?

Yeah look at my name dumbass. Been here since before clowns like you showed up. Well known here, your not.

Oh, good. You took the bait and responded, so I can further clarify my deliberately snarky comments.

First of all, you may be "well known" around this particular shallow pond, but you're certainly not "well informed" enough to swim in deeper waters. Be careful if you do, however, as you might get swallowed by a much larger fish.

Just because someone is new to reddit, does not mean that they're new to the world of conspiracy. This assumption alone shows your lack of critical thinking skills.

"Yeah look at my name dumbass."

I did. And isn't it ironic that your name (SmedleysButler) implies that you're at least superficially aware of a past presidential coup attempt, yet obviously completely unaware of a similar attempt happening right in front of you. And yes, orchestrated by the same forces (in spirit) as those who conspired to take down Roosevelt. But then, maybe you're living in the past, making you unaware of the present.

The line of apostolic succession, politically speaking if you'll excuse the mixed metaphor, is clear. But I seriously doubt you'll understand that or make the connection.

One thing I'm sure we can agree on is that neither of us is a fan of Trump. I'm almost certain that statement is a surprise to you, as you probably also made the assumption that I was a Trumpster.

I am not, however, I do understand who his enemies are in the establishment. And yes, the term, "establishment", is key here.

Are you establishment? Be honest and thoughtful in how you answer that, as it will determine how vulnerable you've been to the decades-long propaganda machine.

Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're a dyed-in-the-wool progressive who considers himself "anti-establishment". A proud freethinking liberal who's always felt comfortable in knowing that you're morally and intellectually superior to those "deplorables" who deigned to support someone so odious and reprehensible as that, "Orange Rancid Sack of Pig Vomit".

Amirite?

When you're feeling a little more pretentious, you probably decry the whole left/right dialectic as being a tactic used by the TPTB to divide and conquer the sheeple. Ain't you hip.

Yet, you'll fall right into this trap while claiming to warn others.

Do you have enough self-awareness to understand the hypocrisy of your words and actions?

Listen, I don't want you to think that I'm picking on you, however, I do want you to be aware of your own elitism, which is why I replied to your comments in the first place.

This whole "Russiagate" narrative being pushed by the Democrats is just as abhorrent as the Republican witch-hunt on the Clintons during the nineties. And I'm no fan of them either.

What the OP was pointing out, and rightly so, is that many (too many) on the left are becoming irrational to the point of madness with regards to Trump and this whole Russian collusion nonsense. And yes, it is objectively, rationally, and factually, nonsensical. And you don't have to be a Trump supporter to understand that.

The cognitive dissonance many experienced on election night has obviously affected people's mental health, the consequences of which we've yet to fully realize. And we haven't even gotten to 2018 yet... when the bad acid trip of revelations coming down will make November 2016 look like a mellow high.

For this reason alone, you should be very concerned about your own ignorance regarding all of this.

If you'd like, I can submit some information for your consideration. However, I'm having serious doubts that you'd read it anyway.

Enjoy your cognitive dissonance, but when it all goes down, don't say I didn't warn you.

LMAO, too dumb to know who he is talking too and then doubles down on sucking Trumps dick. Try a little harder you might get his balls in there too.

Okay, so who am I talking to, Smedley?

My name is John and I'm the co-host of a new Conspiracy & Paranormal podcast called Magical Mystery Radio. I doubt you'd like it, as it's for intelligent people who don't fall for partisan propaganda or shill anonymously on message boards.

Oh, and you can e-mail me anytime at magicalmysterymedia@gmail.com

Love to hear your arguments beyond ad hominem attacks.

God, what a right wing nut job.

Care to elaborate?

Username checks out. Well said, reminds me of the old r/conspiracy.

Thank you good sir. Been trying to let everyone know how non-partisan this sub used to be. I don't think we spent more than a month on the Benghazi manufactured conspiracy. Now all the mods want us talking about is whatever the GOP says we should be talking about.

Fuck you partisan fucks for ruining one of the all time great subreddits.

Thanks brother, that's exactly my point.

You believe in Trump, that means you don't get every thing this sub stands for and is about. Those balls taste good by the way.

You obviously haven't been on this sub everyday for the last year or you would know exactly what I'm talking about.

My opinion of the general idea of “conspiracy theorists” is that above all they should strive to be skeptics of everything. It is a clever bit of social engineering that “skeptic” is generally seen as an antithesis to “conspiracy theorists”.

As far as Russia goes, there is only one certain fact about it in regards to Putin. Putin wants the idea of Russian collusion to remain both relevant and ambiguous. The only thing that would thwart this interest is for it to be put to rest one way or the other. The ambiguity is the only beneficial thing for him.

Except Putin has categorically and unambiguously denied any involvement of the Russian government, many many times now.

And yet has let many of these hints slip through...

Public and private position, if you will.

Like I said, he wants to cultivate ambiguity, denying it fervently is part of this play.

Believe whatever you want but you know if there people were being criminally charged in other popular conspiracies like the moon landing or WTC 7 everyone would be jizzing on each other's pants in excitement about the 'truth' finally coming out.

The new members here aren't interested in conspiracies. This is just another avenue for them to invent partisan lies and sling feces at anyone who calls bullshit.

If CNN said that the moon landing was fake and that humans had never gone to the moon, these geniuses would start claiming that Donald J. Trump just hot back from a trip to the moon last night.

Its best not to conflate the russian election meddling and the Trump/Russia collusion narratives. Russia and many other countries most certainly attempt to run influence campaigns and test the strength of our election security. Election "meddling" is a valid concern but I think the MSM is disingenuous when they only point the figure at Russia and not any other countries.

Now when it comes to Trump Colluding with Russia to meddle in the election, I am highly skeptical of the idea. It certainly would have much more credibility if the FBI and Mueller didn't have such a tainted reputation. The main issue here is that people want to use Trump's somewhat shady/corrupt business and political dealings with Russia, as proof of collusion with the Russians to affect the election or that Trump is a puppet for the Kremlin. Trump probably could be impeached and removed from office for these crimes but if that's the goal then those people need to get away from this election meddling collusion narrative. At this point the term Russian-Collusion is so ingrained in everyone's minds that they can easily dismiss it, so if you want to accuse Trump of a different form of corruption you need to be very precise in defining what type of Russia Collusion you are referring to or just use a different vocabulary to make the argument.

Is Trump compromised on the same level as previous Presidents?

You admit that you think the FBI and Mueller have tainted reputations.

They don't, that bullshit was invented a week or two ago when the Republicans realized Trump can't stop admitting guilt on Twitter.

You admit that you think that "Russia/Trump collusion" can be easily dismissed. Do you really think thats how the justice system operates? If you hear about something too much it just stops being a crime?

You idiots don't even know whats coming at you. Watching you scramble and try to invent exit strategiesand lies to cover your retreat...well, it has been absolutely exquisite.

Exactly. Half the u.s. doesn't vote and everyone is Gerry mandered. Oh uhmm the russians! So fucking dumb its beyond me.

Doesn't matter how much they affected the results. Mueller isn't going to prosecute any Russians.

But hey, I never assumed you were able to understand the lefal system.

Wow, a lot of shills out here today to discredit you. Amazing.

It IS general consensus here that the Russian narrative is manufactured. In fact, we should do a poll, can we do that?

Perhaps find the user bases views on different conspiracies?

You idiots only showed up here a few months ago back when Pizzagate was invented. Before you and the other pro-Russia pawns arrived, we had anti-Obama conspiracies but they weren't empty partisan posturing.

Idiots? Personal insults aren't allowed here mate. Head over to TMoR for that.

I think it has to do all these young college kids going insane from finding out that Democrats are evil and they can't comprehend what's going on. They lost their identity. They have no idea who to follow or agree with. You have racists, rapists, sexism.. none of which appeal to the 20 something year old liberal. They can't follow Trump because that goes against everything they know. I'd say more than half the comments I see against Trump and his plans and ideas are bold face lies and fake news taken directly from the talking heads of MSM and have been debunked but they refuse with passion to believe Trump is doing anything good. I kind of fear for my 4 year olds future

they refuse with passion to believe Trump is doing anything good

Yeah, they're the ones whose passion and beliefs are clouding their judgement.

Dude passes only one law and its a tax plan to fuck over the working class, and you can't imagine why anyone would think he's not doing anything good?

How is his tax plan going to screw over the working class? My husband and I are working class and we're getting back more money in 2018 than we've ever gotten. How are you guys losing money? We claim 1 on our taxes and make under 50k a year. We're getting back all the credits we can use and itemizing our taxes for travel expenses and whatever we can, and if we wanted we could buy a new freaking car with what Trump's plan is going to give us. So how is that screwing us over??? Did you mean big business??

This post is quite concerning.

You're basically telling us that if we believe any MSM we are "paranoics"?

You're dismissing a conspiracy theory because of your own bias, telling us to wait for evidence... While posts about Seth Rich and pizzagate which also have no evidence are pushed to the top with no such warnings that only "paranoics" belive things with 0 evidence.

Curious dichotomy you have set up.

Indeed.

If it's reported, it's a lie.

If it's true, it can't be reported.

Some incredible logic right here! Guess we are all dependent on the Totally-Wearing-Clothes to tell us what color grass is on Twitter today.

Fucking degenerate mods kidnapped this sub for propagandizing and fake news. Be merciless.

Brother, your post history is littered with baseless speculation.

What's good for the goose...

So the mod that forced "submission statements" and who wants to bring conspiracy back to conspiracy starts a highly partisan and political discussion where he slams people for discussing a legitimate conspiracy, defends Russian hacking since it made people more "informed", all while kissing the ass of every commenter that agrees with him. Great.

Yeah.. If he only could some how combine the two by getting "consensus" that no one believes Trump sucks Putin's dick and that MSM is worthless, why he could remove posts at will if he were a mod or something.

How about answer this question you keep dodging: What is your opinion of Putin? Be as detailed as possible.

Russians are a bunch of pansies. America is the super bower of the world - you can have our scraps you wretched dogs.

I hate Trump. Loathe him.

I still don't believe Russia hack. The DNC never handed over servers to FBI and if it had been a real attack I have no doubt they would have run to the FBI naked in snowstorm with the servers in their hands begging for it to be investigated.

The speculative hyperbole around this has been then further perpetuated as a smoke screen by TPTB to enable them to entrench and consolidate their power (especially with regard to the internet) with not only public knowledge but approval.

TPTB are using Russiagate to institute a program of social engineering, where unjustified (racist?) hatred of Russians is patriotic, justified considering how evil the Russian dictator is, and should be propagated and encouraged - and any people who say different are traitors in the employ of foreign power who should not only be ignored but also stopped, even destroyed if necessary. It is Jim Crow again, except Russians for blacks

The FBI knew that the DNC servers had been compromised, and they tried to warn the DNC, but the DNC did not properly handle or address that warning.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dnc-blew-off-fbi-hack-warnings

The rest of your ramblings don't make enough sense to debunk. Jim Crow for Russia? Bitch you don't know what the fuck Jim Crow means? Bitch did you forget that we have been hostile with Russia since the 1940s? Maybe call it McCarthyism next time you want to impress people with bullshit you don't understand.

Russia is a Slavic nation. Slavs are a race. Like Asian. Like blacks. And yes I know what Jim Crow is. Unjust laws that are based on race. Unjust laws which suppress people because of skin colour, allowing racist and corrupt elite to remain wealthy and powerful through state intervention. If you were white and complained about the injustice you were a niggar lover and destroyed/kilked.

As for FBI warning the DNC, then it is the DNC fault for not listening. Perhaps then we won't have only CrowdStrike's dodgy report to rely upon. And the FBI warning still does answer why the DNC didn't turn over servers for the FBI to inspect after the event. What did they have to lose? The FBI confirming hack took place?

And the United States has a long history with Russia preceding the Bolshevik revolution. Most of it was friendly, with czarist Russia if anything helping the fledging country.

Thankyou

So
1) The Russians didn't hack the DNC, but
2) If they did it was because they wanted transparency. For the voters.
You sound like you're pushing a narrative.

2) If they did it was because they wanted transparency. For the voters. You sound like you're pushing a narrative.

They may reveal it to push away Clinton. Btw, I don't buy Russiagate narrative, since I am Russian, but your logic is flawed

I was summarizing the post I was responding to. I agree it is flawed logic.

Really? The person stated that the hacks didn't happen and then posted that if they did it was a good thing because it exposed corruption.
Those two things can't both be true.
Unless you can argue against this other than saying I'm wrong and offering no reason I don't know why you're replying.

You alt-right idiots invented a fake conspiracy called pizzagate to deflect from the illegality of the DNC hack and the very disturbing fact that Trump on camera at that time asked Russia to hack even more Clinton assets.

We know who the fuck is pushing narrative.

You think you can just take this sub hostage and use it as another pawn in the fake news war you created? You think you're so clever and intelligent, and that you're masters of propaganda and "red pills". What you haven't realized is that fighting against the truth is always a losing battle.

When we take back this country, when we take back this subreddit, we will remember you. We will not forgive. We will not forget. Expect us.

Holy shit conspiracy is as retarded as everyone says lololololol.

Anti Trump independent here. I used to buy into the Russia/Trump collusion but I think the word "collision" is way too ambitious for the Dems and Mueller and MSM to convince people... It's obvious that the dude has something major to hide and it's more than likely because of flat out corruption. He's been doing business with foreign countries for years. He's taken money from countries like Saudi Arabia and then only a few months into his presidency, he and Congress approved a 110 billion dollar weapons deal with them to carry on their genocide against Yemen. But no one cares because Saudi Arabia is our oil Ally and Russia is an easy scapegoat. Were they involved? Sure, yes, absolutely. Is Trump Putin's puppet? I have yet to see any indication of that. He's handling this really poorly though. Maybe he should have just released his tax returns like everyone else to clear the air but no just take his word for it that he's clean! Russia isn't the threat it once was during the cold war. America is going to lose (I think it already has because of this presidency) it's sole superpower slot on the world stage to China. Bottom line, there are plenty of ways to go after Trump and get him indicted and impeached but the establishment hears no evil and sees no evil when it comes to US "allies" like SA.

The issue I see with the whole situation was the blatant one-sided leaks. It's all well and good we got to see the sausage being made in the DNC but I very much would have liked to see the gizzards of the RNC as well. In fact, JA mentioned in an interview that he had info on the Trump campaign but nobody wants to see it because 'there was nothing there'. Doesn't really seem like his call to make.

Dumb question, the term "collision" is no being said anymore, just "Meddling" What is the difference, if any? Isn't meddling normal and could be done without anyone' s knowledge, and collusion is like knowingly working together? Which is it?

No, your post.

Steve Bannon said the following this week:

“[Kushner was] taking meetings with Russians to get additional stuff. This tells you everything about Jared,”

Michael Flynn has admitted speaking with Russians about sanctions to the FBI

The Trump team has both admitted that they were and weren’t involved in the platform change in the Ukraine

There’s verifiable proof that most senior Trump officials helped spread the fake TruePundit story (with the help of agents in the NY FBI office, NYPD, Jeanine Pirro) that led to Clinton’s emails getting reopened for investigation (which subsequently led to nothing but arguably swung the election

This isn’t even getting into the financial crimes, and Trump’s personal goes to guys like Alagarov, Abramovic and Rybolev

Dismissing the wrongdoing and meddling of Trump/Russia.

Show me the evidence....

When there is sensible and substantial links between Trump, Russia, WikiLeaks, the DNC leak, etc., then maybe people on /r/conspiracy will take it seriously.

And is you're on this sub, then you should know that just about everything the MSM spouts is BS.

Dismissing the wrongdoing and meddling of Trump/Russia.

Where's the evidence.

Post proof nibba

Bill Clinton is an actual rapist and Hillary has a crime list longer than my arm

I think Trump is a disaster, but, objectively, I agree with this statement. Just wondering how you respond to Hillary defenders who say, but she's been investigated so thoroughly so many times and they've found nothing!

im not simple minded enough to think trump is someone i want in power, just because the dnc sucks.

when it's posted here daily and upvoted in mass by people

This doesn't happen. It's posted here and instantly downvoted. Once a month maybe there'll be a Trump Russia story too big to ignore that manages to get enough upvotes to reach the front page, at which point the mods will tag it "misleading", the same usual bunch of users will flood in disrupting any possible conversation by declaring everyone "shareblue shills", and then often the whole submission is deleted by the mods for vague unexplained reasons.

The mods here can't put an actual prohibition on it, the users here are too anti-censorship to get away with that, but they do as much as they can. This post is basically the top mod outlining the official /r/conspiracy narrative. That Trump-Russia is MSM propaganda, and that "real conspiracy theorists" should not believe it, and that he is "proud" of the users here for rejecting it.

Boy, you banned people from this sub for wrong think when it comes to trump Russia. Your coup to try and make this sub into a trump worshipping hell hole is why you are no longer a mod.

and how was it used in the case were talking about?

Go on. Address all those fallacies you suppose. Source and cite them.

Thanks.

Are you forgetting what the GOP did only 1 election ago to Ron Paul?

They literally changed the rules mid election to stop him from gaining delegates at the pace he was.

They were going to change that rule back this election to stop Trump but realized they were already too late and were stuck with him.

Both parties do fucked up shit to try and pick the candidate they want.

I'll never forgive the DNC for what they did, I'll never stop bringing it up.

But we currently have a president compromised by outside influence that worked to fuck with our election, we know this, we need to deal with it. Hillary has no power anymore

What deflecting? Are you unable to follow an argument?

We're talking about Trump/Russian connections and collusion and you deflect to 'Isn't HRC bad too?'. The definition of deflection, who gives a fuck about HRC, this discussion is on Trump/Russia and how dirty those connections are, HRC is a different discussion all together.

Tell me WTF any of this has to do with alleged collusion

Russian money laundering? Property laundering? Manafort, the campaign manager, and his Russian ties? That is DIRECTLY what the discussion is about (Trump/Russia connections and collusion).

And yes, we've seen you're 'evidence', and we conclude that it is non-existent. I've seen all those arguments a million times, repeating them doesn't make them any less rubbish.

God, it's like talking to a brick wall. What happened to users here being open minded and actually thinking logically instead of thinking based on political party lines? Can't you see past the red and blue? If you're going to be a political hack and not be open minded, maybe T_D is more suited for your silo'd thinking.

Actually, there's more evidence it was a leak. Now I'll sit back and watch you deny that one.

What the fuck are you getting on about? What was I denying before? You're literally the only one denying things and deflecting away from the topic of the thread. JFC you trolls are annoying.

could you follow up on the ron paul question?

There's nothing illegal about what the DNC did, at the end of the day. They are a private organization who can put forward any candidate they choose. They could pull names out of a hat and it would still be their prerogative.

Meanwhile, collusion with the Russian goverment could quite possibly be treason, punishable by death.

But please, let's keep putin these two things on the same plane of equivalency.

How are you to stop influence over the internet? What censorship are you suggesting?

See how well their distractions work! This guy thinks gay marriage is part of a plot to rule the world. It’s just diversionary politics; they’re not spending billions of dollars on marriage policy they’re spending billions of dollars on camouflage.

Invoking Occam's Razor in this sub? Where Pizzagate and Seth Rich theories abound? That's precious.

Do you honestly think Assange would trust any US Admin to "clear the charges"? Assange's goal is simple. Get those muthers' that killed his leaker.

Now I know I can completely disregard anything you have to say, thanks!

No. It isn’t. You’ve got TONS of anti trump posts so I know you’re not interested in a discussion. But that’s just wishful thinking, no facts.

I don't know. What does OP look like?