Is honesty really a virtue?

0  2018-01-13 by PMmeYOURrareCONTENT

Honesty has always seemed to me like a real important core value. I admit I am a coward and I am seldom honest, but I always wish I was and I always despised myself when I didn't have the balls to spit out whatever I was thinking.

But slowly I am coming to the conclusion that honesty is not a virtue, but rather an instrument of control.

The people in power want you to be honest. Why? So that they are able to categorize and keep you under control. They want you to show your hands at all times. While they pretty much never do. They want to know what you're up to, what tricks you have up your sleeves, they want to know your dirty secrets, your sex fantasies, your nightmares and your fears, they want to know it all.

Just think about this very popular "common sense" pop-psychology thing of "showing weakness is a strength". Really? Well, I admit I somehow used to buy into it and maybe still do to an extent, but it seems more and more like an obvious attempt to actually put you in a weak position where you are easy to control.

"Showing weakness is a strength" = "Exchange secrets we can use against you for a pat on your back"

Do you know of any politician who is honest?

Me neither.

So why let them lecture us about honesty.

Honesty is something to share among valued and trusted friends where it might indeed make one and one another stronger. Not something to be given for free towards people who may have or are likely to have bad intents.

33 comments

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

I agree with your final conclusion. Honesty and Trust have to come hand in hand, or not at all.

But god damn, be honest to yourself.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Maybe that's why I was so obsessed with being honest in the first place. Because I felt unable to be honest with myself (or felt like that wasn't enough to feel confirmed in my own beliefs), I wanted to overcompensate by being honest to everyone else and getting confirmation from them (which never works either).

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

Relying on other people for your self esteem is like waiting for it to snow before you mow your grass. You'll bust your ass the whole time, and fuck up the lawn mower in the process.

Self reliance really makes you feel good. You look at your work, and you feel good. You know what you've accomplished, and you respect yourself for it.

Nothing anybody said's can even compare to that feeling.

Not to say love, and companionship doesn't matter, but that's the other side of the "good and happy life" coin.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

I've always wished I had this, for as long as I can think back. But I'm always too terrified, too untrusting.

You wanna hear something crazy? I like being creative. But the only times when I finish doing some project is when it's one I only care about maybe 20%. Why? Because I know my project is great by my standards, but I know I'm mentally weak and somebody will come and tell me some stupid "academic criticism" that I don't agree with, but neither feel strong enough to disagree with, so other people end up ruining my own ideas for me.

Though of course sometimes there are criticisms that I do agree with, but usually I don't, because they seem like forced exercises of some inane rule book without any attempt to grasp what I have created in its essence.

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

Why do you think you're mentally weak? Because you can't express your feelings to others? Shit, even the strongest people are still weak. We all have faults that drag us down, but as your grow, and experience more and more, you adapt.

Consider your academic criticism, view it as an argument from authority, meaning a professor criticizes your work, and says his theory is better, because hes a professor, and has been doing it longer. Because hes arguing from a position of authority, and not explaining his processes, and attempting to prove how his theory is superior, by offering it up to criticism, hes not being scientific.

The point is to reach the truth, be it with yourself, or a scientific theory, you have to be methodical, and apply the same rules every time.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Why do you think you're mentally weak?

Because I feel like I have zero mental resistance to other people's thoughts. I feel threatened by the prospect of openly disagreeing, but merely keeping quiet doesn't work either (because people can read your face). Hence I have this defense mechanism (result of early childhood trauma I presume) where I automatically adapt my thoughts to the thoughts of another person, no matter how much they hurt me, just to feel safe. I suppose Stockholm Syndrome?

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

You seem very open to expressing this weakness here on Reddit, have you shared this with anyone in your personal life? Or does the anonymity allow you to be more forth coming?

Being sensitive to how other people feel and think just empathy, but you seem to focus on the negative aspects more than the positive ones.

Leads me to believe you faced serious isolation, or abuse as a child, and during early development you tired to cope by

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Sometimes I'm open about it. It really depends on the circumstances. Call it a gut feeling. Other times the openness is achieved by dissociation (I can talk about it without actually feeling it at the same time, but later I feel bad about having been so open).

Being sensitive to how other people feel and think is just empathy, but you seem to focus on the negative aspects more than the positive ones.

If this is what empathy is, I don't want any part of it. It feels like who I am, all my autonomy, free will and individuality is 100% repressed in favor of anyone else who checks of certain "triggers". Nothing positive in it (other than being liked/useful to those people)

Leads me to believe you faced serious isolation, or abuse as a child.

Well yeah I did.

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

I could try and help you, but I'm not a psychiatrist, so who am I to give out advice? But I don't think r/conspiracy is the best place to be having this discussion.

You need someone you can sit down with, and express this to, someone who will give feedback that you recognize as being non-threatening.

For me, I have an uncle, we agree and disagree about a lot of things, but we know each others deepest, darkest secrets. Things that we've shared at 3:30am in the morning, after smoking weed all evening, after being loosened up. After that barrier was broken between us, we realized that just to have someone else know, was such as base human instinct, it was like building a fire in the woods for the 1st time. He told be things that I will take to my grave, I would break that trust with him, because it would be like cutting off my own arm.

You need this bond, to work out your abuse, and to over come it, to become a man.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Thanks, but you don't need to be helping me at all, not your responsibility. I just mentioned these things because they seemed to flow from the conversation.

I don't think I'm gonna be able to have such a bond with anybody at any foreseeable time. The though alone abhors me.

Best thing I occasionally have is to know someone with whom I can at least talk some politically incorrect jokes, ya know. That's kind of one of the few pleasures in my life. :D

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

Your path is yours, and yours alone. I wish you the best of luck, for what that's worth.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Aye, thanks

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

I think there are certain aspects in people that trigger my trust, even if only temporarily. Not 100% sure what, but I think it may have to do with me observing them doing or saying something that they could not/would not have said or done if they weren't trustworthy. Logically, if I told someone what these are though, they could fake them, and I could no longer rely on them.

1  bradok 2018-01-13

Honesty is a virtue for all the reasons you stated. Because being honest is harder than lying. Because it opens you up to reality. And because those in control aren't honest they prey on those who are, which makes honesty all the more powerful. Honesty is a trust in your fellow man and in the goodness of human nature. Without honesty we are nothing.

1  Ninjakick666 2018-01-13

Here they come Here come the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it form a confidant
They're definitely on their way
Best keep your distance because
Here they come here come the bastards
Bury your head deep in the sand
Anonymity is a virtue in this day and age
Amazing hand dexterity
Flagrant misuse of security
Better run, run, run, run, run
Run run run run, here they come.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Sounds interesting, gotta check that song out someday.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Listened to it. Man, that song is very cool.

1  Ninjakick666 2018-01-13

You might also like "Sgt. Baker" and "Too Many Puppies" those are both Primus songs exposing the Military Industrial Complex and the "brainwashing" that occurs...

Les Claypool's "David Makalaster" is required listening for today's "fake news" environment.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

It sounds like great music, right up my alley of progressive rock/metal. Assuming that song wasn't an exception. The tune even inspired me to write a poem, something I haven't done in a while: https://www.reddit.com/r/PoeticReddit/comments/7q2gdb/you_know_its_a_lie/

Gonna see if I can find the album somewhere.

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1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Thanks, done.

1  Ninjakick666 2018-01-13

Here's my favorite song about lies... It's got some kinda slow and melodic parts after the into but it gets rockin again pretty soon...

NoMeansNo - All Lies

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

You have good taste, good sir! How have I never heard of these bands...

1  Ninjakick666 2018-01-13

Yer prolly young... Primus was pretty mainstream in the 90s... NoMeansNo is Canadian and not well known though... but holy fuck they rock... lesser bands would make an entire album out of the sweet riffs they put in one song... "Wrong" and "Worldhood of the World, As Such" are prolly NoMeansNo's best work.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

lesser bands would make an entire album out of the sweet riffs they put in one song

This is how I feel about most music, and why I can't stand listening to most albums, they sound like they are all mild variations of a single song.

Definitely gonna give this a shot.

And yeah, let's say that in the early nineties I was still learning how to walk.

1  RedPillFiend 2018-01-13

The more honest you are, especially with yourself, the easier it is to recognize lies.

Fuck what other people do. Only you have to live with yourself. And honest people have a much easier time with that than liars do.

1  limesqueezeme13 2018-01-13

No one likes dishonest people...fact

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Of course not. People like people who they have control over. Hence parents also like nice "well-behaved" (read: completely un-autonomous) kids. Especially mothers.

1  Facts_About_Cats 2018-01-13

People don't believe liars. It's that simple.

1  PMmeYOURrareCONTENT 2018-01-13

Mh. That may apply to a fringe amount of people, but it's hardly a general truth. I would say people believe a good liar far more easily than a bad truth-teller.

1  tastygoods 2018-01-13

Play on hard mode, make the big guy proud. Even if you lose a few rounds.. Who else matters more then that?

1  knulki 2018-01-13

Honesty is by far the most important thing to me, no matter the context. I started out life being honest, realized I'm just getting fucked because of that, bacame a huge liar until about 22 years of age and then started being 100% honest with myself out of necessity (mushrooms helped convincing me). Then I started actually improving myself, seeing all my faults and issues, realized that I can't be honest to anyone if I'm not honest to myself and vice versa and now I haven't been lying much in years. Exceptions are people who don't listen to what I'm saying anyway and just care about talking about themselves, so I just withhold everything and try to end the conversation politely (which in my mind is a form of dishonesty). Sometimes, when I'm too emotional, I just stop giving a fuck and just rant and am the most honest about everything, but generally that only paints me as an asshole, because people care more about themselves than the overall wellbeing.

Truth is something that doesn't need anyone's help, even in these times. If you align yourself with truth, you'll always know and recognize it. If you speak the truth, you have nothing to fear (on the grand scale). But I would recommend having balls and being sincere about it. Don't make it something you identify with or you just make it a part of your ego and continue the dishonesty bs.

Generally, since I became mostly honest, my life improved tremendously in all areas and I feel very blessed.

1  venCiere 2018-01-13

I think you are assuming your honesty should be shared with everyone at all times. There are many situations where your input is not prompted and if it is, it can be withheld honestly. If it is not useful, why share your opinion? It’s always good to be circumspect and withhold your pearls from swine.

1  Balmorika 2018-01-13

Your path is yours, and yours alone. I wish you the best of luck, for what that's worth.