It's obvious where you lie on the spectrum.

Well no shit, but if that alone convinces you I have nothing to say worth listening to you're brainwashed and should strive to be better.

Watch this video here on why the left has descended into a Soros funded cultural marxism/communism and where it all came from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaBpVzOohs

Well worth your time.

Other than that, I am an ex leftist who went center/right. I can assure having come from both sides, that what the left has turned into (and its infiltration into education, gov, tech, google/reddit/FB/twitter, and the news outlets) if BY FAR more dangerous than anything coming out of the right these days.

Now sure these are globalists like Soros dividing us, and that's the fool (and his ilk) that need to be regicided, however, the degeneracy of what has come from the left, is actual, its here to stay and its everywhere.

The Right. on the other hand, and its massive rise in the West, is a simple reaction, a pendulum swing from too much power of the left. The Right is going to get nasty. Its already happening in Europe where there are far right groups forming to do battle with the Muslims. We are going to witness decades, hundreds of years of Civil wars now, and there's no turning back from it unfortunately

He won't watch it, but others will. Keep up the good fight.

He won't watch it,

I know. "They" dont like facts, logic, research, truth.

but others will. Keep up the good fight.

Yes, you too brother. In the end, those with heart, love, passion, will win, but way may be having to pass through hell to get there

We are going to witness decades, hundreds of years of Civil wars now, and there's no turning back from it unfortunately

The tin foil game is strong with this one

The "live in a bubble and never have stepped foot into Europe so doesn't know the change from 10 years ago til now," is strong w this one

You wrote all this bullshit, yet you're still too much of a coward to admit that you dislike brown people.

A bunch of chubby rightwing neckbeards are going to protect us against 'terrorists'. Yeah, okay...nice narrative and cover for hate crimes.

You wrote all this bullshit, yet you're still too much of a coward to admit that you dislike brown people.

That's the problem with the cultural Marxist, they are brainwashed to this k anything that doesnt don't Into the hive mind narrative is: ______fill in the blank. In the case, the narrative is either Russian, redneck, racist, or Nazi.

You don't even fucking know me dude. I grew up in the city around all colors, best friend Dominican, last night hung out w my Mexican friend and his wife, roommate if Phillipino, other best friend El Salvadorian, just got done dating a new, have dated black, Asian, Cuban, etc.

Boy are you fucking wrong big time in your cognitive dissonance. Along w this, I've schooled all my friends and family on the P.C. cultural Marxism so they all now know why the left is fucked up and why I am no longer part of literal brainwashed global conspiracy campaign that started w the Frankfurt school.

Hahaha also wrong on the chubby neck beard. Gym daily, shave clean, work, tats, and very well educated both w Street smarts and traditional college. Boy are you in for a surprise these next few years when you realize the ghetto is also stepping away from the demoncraps

That's the problem with the cultural Marxist, they are brainwashed to this and anything that doesnt don't Into the hive mind narrative is: ______fill in the blank.

Wut? What are you even trying to say there? I've read this half a dozen times and I can't make any sense of it. I guess what they say about Trumpies and reading and writing comprehension is true...

I don't know you, but I know your message is ugly and paranoid. We all just want what's best for the country and if you took the time to read OP's message you would understand that. But instead you just spout off some retarded Alex Jones bullshit about how George Soros is hellbent on destroying the country.

You fucked a couple girls with dark skin tones. Do you want a prize? That doesn't prove anything.

Okay, you 'redpilled' your friends and family. They probably stood their awkwardly while you spouted off some white genocide bulllshit you read on /pol/ and just nodded and pretended to agree with you so you would go away and not cause a scene.

Lastly, am I supposed to be impressed that you're not a slob? Good job, I guess. Maybe you take care of yourself, but you still have a neckbeard point of view.

Wut? What are you even trying to say there? I've read this half a dozen times and I can't make any sense of it. I guess what they say about Trumpies and reading and writing comprehension is true...

there you go again, stereotype, put a whole group of people under one label like you did here

You wrote all this bullshit, yet you're still too much of a coward to admit that you dislike brown peopl

that was your fill in the blank: coward, racist, reading and writing comprehension, this is all from the Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals(cultural marxists/leftists) book. Great job, you are COMPLETELY proving my point

I don't know you, but I know your message is ugly and paranoid

My message is wake the fuck the fuck, read a fucking book, get some fucking knowledge, and then you will no longer be played like a fucking fiddle by the left. Its very blunt, legit, factual, source based, unfortunately the scholars who discuss what the left has turned into, admit that folks like you no longer look at the facts, no longer watch the vids in their totality because A.D.D. no longer read books or do the research, so its actualy a war against idiocracy, against a bunch of played ostriches who are taught to keep their heads in the hive mind sand.

We all just want what's best for the country and if you took the time to read OP's message you would understand that. But instead you just spout off some retarded Alex Jones bullshit about how George Soros is hellbent on destroying the country.

No, you're wrong, this isnnt about Jones or Soros (Though he does fund the left in order to divide us), but this is about a legit global marxist conspiracy with names, organizations, funding, infiltration into colleges, tech, media/news, culture leaving one side of America super fucking brainwashed.

Listen I was on both sides, and as a centrist, I understand that we need to be united, however those on the right, I can sit down, talk to with logic and reason, I can give them documentaries and books on the history of what the left has become, and they will listen, ask, debate, talk, contemplate and consider.

Those on the left have just gone off completely off the deep end and refuse any of this. It is literally as if one side has become fucking zombies dude. How the hell do yout alk to hivemind zombies if they refuse to listen and right away stereotype you as: coward, racist, low reading and writing comprehension? You can't.

You fucked a couple girls with dark skin tones. Do you want a prize? That doesn't prove anything.

Yes I want a big fat prize from the libtards proving to them I'm not a racist.

Okay, you 'redpilled' your friends and family. They probably stood their awkwardly while you spouted off some white genocide bulllshit you read on /pol/ and just nodded and pretended to agree with you so you would go away and not cause a scene.

Hahahaha, naw thats the stupidest assumptions based on stereotyping. I'm part of a philosophical debate club at my local Uni made up of professors, scholars, authors and so on. A typical night after or debates/club meets usually finds us afterwards at local club where we can have intellectual conversations about these topics. Any nearby wanderer who gets sucked in, usually is ill equipped to take on folks well versed in cognitive dissonance and bias lists as found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

Using the Socratic Method of constantly asking questions to get to the heart of any matter usually suffices as an initial redpill. I never do shit dickishly like you presume because in the idiocracy, most cant handle books and videos from scholars.

Lastly, am I supposed to be impressed that you're not a slob?

No you're supposed to realize how your assumptions keep being proven wrong, how stereotyping is bullshit but at the same time how even though I withheld my stereotypes about you, in the end you still pulled off all the Saul Alinsky tactics for brainwashing cultural marxists

Maybe you take care of yourself, but you still have a neckbeard point of view

"neckbeard" lol....there it is. Smh.

Til studying facts, truth, reading books, is "neckbeard". Congrats on keying in exactly on Rules for Radicals

Oh boy, the old Frankfurt School Theory. I was stoned enough to make it about six minutes in but then I just got a headache.

Yes this is typical of people who cannot do research and have short western attention span syndrome. Actually I can supply you with about 5 extra videos all of which cover the founders, organizations, history, and links to Germany.

Marxism is a largely failed eastern european thang with little to no impact in the USA.

Wrong, Marxism has actually evolved under different name, most currently Post Modernism, its founders which came to the U.S. and have entered into various educational institutions liek Yale, Princeton, Berkeley and many others.

As a mater of fact, you can go and read anything by David Horowitz who's parents were Marxists/Post Modernists, he was raised around these groups of people, and he factually outlines how this has all infiltrated into Western education system, media, tech, and so on. Brilliant books and highly recommended

Political correctness evolved on it's own here and pissing and moaning about it is chilish as all hell.

Actually wat I'm doing here is standing up to it and fighting back

Not being a dick to queer people and knowing the appropriate context to call shit "retarded" in isn't really a lot to ask. Believe me, I'm form soCal, the most PC Place on Earth™, I know how this shit works.

The difference being is I have lived and have Grandparents from San Fran (inverness area retired), grew up in Chicago, parents from Europe, lived out there for a year and have been out there dozens of times, so my context is different from "Just SoCal"

The far right is largely a large group of young, insecure white men with little success to identify other than colonialism crying because people they subconsciously think of as beneath them are getting equal and sometimes better treatment.

Wrong, I grew up in the streets, hood, all colors, all races, streets smarts and college, and the far right is nothing like this boogeyman youve just postulated, this is why you will be shocked again when Trump gets 8 years. You dont know about the Domincans, or the older Puerto Ricans, or European immigrants who are all majority trump. You're missing a big piece of the picture, the movement transcends "insecure whitemen" lol

Almost all of them I've met irl are bloodthirsty goons who played to many video games and wanted to kill people in the army/actually did kill people in the army and are all the more fucked up for it.

That's not me. I have mexican friends, ex military, phillipino friends, asians and so on, all trumpers, none of them wanting to kill or brainwashed wadting their time in games all day

But between all the strawmen and your farcical refusal to recognize that the kind of people who murdered an anarchist protester in Charlottesville

Because because we are all like that murderer, /s smh. Just like all of the left is like the bike lock skull bashing professor Eric Clanton who could have killed people

But between all the strawmen and your farcical refusal to recognize that the kind of people who murdered an anarchist protester in Charlottesville exist at all shows you're not interested in an honest discussion so that's all the time we've got bud.

Keep moving the goalposts bud. I already hit you with so much truth, and then all of a sudden, lol, you try to hit me with Cville murder. I dont support that guy, and your logic is so fucked up.

Do you want to know talk about the GOP shooter? Eric Clanton? The Antifa riots that destroyed neighboring businesses? Soros funding? BLM Black racism?

Look how again you have descended into left vs right! Smh, there's no hope for you individually, but at the very least the dozens I have talked to who are no longer leftists at least have some logic and reason left that work.

I only pointed out that you're blind to your own biases. But, perhaps that's why you are reacting in such a way.

Your supposed "non-biased" plea to the community is so colored by your own that it's hilarious. And odd that no one else seems to be picking up on it.

Seemed pretty obvious to me.

That poster acknowledged their bias in the same post you're replying to

Anything remotely resembling such a thing was merely lip service. Provide the quote and I will explain it to you.

I don't really care to see your rationalization of what you'd deem "lip service". I have a vivid imagination, I think my guess is pretty accurate.

Maybe you should take a look your own bias and compulsion to disregard information from people on "the other side"

Just as I thought.

How did you read that whole thing without actually processing one word of it?

You sure love your rhetoric.

Removed. Rules 4 and 10.

Political spectrum.

My apologies then - that exact comment is used to insult our users on what seems like a daily basis.

How is talking about one's political proclivity insulting?

Thank you for being fair.

This is the single best thing I've read on this sub in at least the past year. I really hope this post gets some traction.

I agree 100% with the overall message. I agree less with the details and examples you used when addressing the left and right. And that's ok. We have to stop fighting each other and focus on the media and government right?

I mean we all hate corruption and we all hate biased reporting regardless of the side.

Yeah how he broke down the left and right was pretty inaccurate but the main point was good.

I thought he did a decent job of appealing to the other sides confirmation bias while shedding light on our individual blind spots.

What specific valley bothered you?

I also think the title was a bit of a turn-off

Yep. If your honestly going to say Islam is not at War with the West, then you need to seriously brush up on your history and read the Koran. 1400 Years and counting.

Yet we remain close allies with the Wahhabist Saudis. It's almost like the elites don't care about any of this ethnicity/religion shit...

I imagine it's because they have leverage on us. Like we would go to war or the us would collapse if someone upset the current state.

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with my comment, or really any thing else I've seen in this thread...?

I see it as the two sides of the coin correctly predicting what their (individual) sides will be most receptive to and playing to those weaknesses. I also agree with the over all message 100%. I’m not on either side of this but when I got to the details it felt left leaning, which is fine, it may well be my interpretation of another’s interpretation of a giant issue that effects us all?

For real. I can't stand the state of this sub anymore. So many ridiculous, click-baity posts with no basis.

The fact that .001% of people control half the world's wealth is the greatest conspiracy in the history of mankind, and we need to focus on correcting that. It's still too early for pitchforks, so we need to at least attempt to vote in representatives who are for term limits, making corporations and the wealthy pay what they owe to society, and a universal basic income.

What can ever hope to be done my man

Which is why we need to push for Sanders and Warren in 2020. Get ahead of the astroturfing before it starts next year.

Helllllllll no! Warren would never run as Vice.

Not vice, but you need to push for both considering their ages.

I was very pro Bernie this past election, but I’ve since been forced to reevaluate. I don’t trust this federal government to not be corrupt about anything they do. Most of us feel this way. If you feel this way, you should not be voting for anyone that looks to increase federal taxes or spending. Because even if Bernie is in it for the right reasons, his colleagues in the senate and the house are not and probably never will be again.

Wow, too early? Do you think the politicians will develop morals overnight? These people should be dragged to the streets and hanged from lamp posts for treason. The major mistake is to believe that the system provide the means for a real change. Democracy is just a sham. All parties heavily depends the economic means provided by the elite to forward their agenda. But people in general are too docile and settle for a life with the bare minimum for their survival. The only war that I will ever fight will be the war of our liberation.

"...The situation of the majority of men, enlightened by true brotherly enlightenment, at present crushed by the deceit and cunning of usurpers, who are forcing them to ruin their own lives — this situation is terrible and appears hopeless.

Only two issues present themselves, and both are closed. One is to destroy violence by violence, by terrorism, dynamite bombs and daggers as our Nihilists and Anarchists have attempted to do, to destroy this conspiracy of Governments against nations, from without; the other is to come to an agreement with the Government, making concessions to it, participating in it, in order gradually to disentangle the net which is binding the people, and to set them free. Both these issues are closed. Dynamite and the dagger, as experience has already shown, only cause reaction, and destroy the most valuable power, the only one at our command, that of public opinion.

The other issue is closed, because Governments have already learnt how far they may allow the participation of men wishing to reform them. They admit only that which does not infringe, which is non-essential; and they are very sensitive concerning things harmful to them — sensitive because the matter concerns their own existence. They admit men who do not share their views, and who desire reform, not only in order to satisfy the demands of these men, but also in their own interest, in that of the Government. These men are dangerous to the Governments if they remain outside them and revolt against them — opposing to the Governments the only effective instrument the Governments possess — public opinion; they must therefore render these men harmless, attracting them by means of concessions, in order to render them innocuous (like cultivated microbes), and then make them serve the aims of the Governments, i.e., oppress and exploit the masses.

Both these issues being firmly closed and impregnable, what remains to be done?

To use violence is impossible; it would only cause reaction. To join the ranks of the Government is also impossible — one would only become its instrument. One course therefore remains — to fight the Government by means of thought, speech, actions, life, neither yielding to Government nor joining its ranks and thereby increasing its power.

This alone is needed, will certainly be successful.

And this is the will of God, the teaching of Christ. There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man.

How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself." ~ Lev Tolstoy, On Anarchy

It's still too early for pitchforks

No it's way too fucking late, especially if you have children that are going to inherit this hellworld 'made' by the failure of industrial capitalism not despoil, rape, pillage and shit all over the planet.

You may be alright. But your kids are doomed (unless your a billionaire).

Climate change does not happen in a linear fashion. It's completely non-linear and much like a phase change in observable effects.

We're really need to be where we frog march billionaires in the streets to the public guillotines.

I'm sure you don't believe now, but ten years, it will be apparent, if you choose to not pay attention.

The elite learned from the French revolution man.

They're only delaying the inevitable. Eventually people will rise up. But as long as they get their daily Starbucks most people are fine with whatever happens

They learned a lot from the French revolution. One of the things I was saying all the way back to the primaries was if trump supporters and Sanders supporters ever United against the ruling elite we would have a true revolution.

Yes, of course the far right won't be able to because there's just fundamentally such a difference in too many things that can't be looked at. But thats such a small minority of the country (unlike what msm is trying to portray).

Let's unite and topple the elite. We can sit down and figure out how to best both limit the government AND make what is there work for the people as a whole and not the select few, later. We can work out details after we've taken back control.

It's going to take things like a general strike. It's going to take things like mass boycotting. It's going to take a strong local community that can support each other during a short period of economic struggle. Because this stuff costs Americans money in the short term. This is the single greatest reason they want you living paycheck to paycheck. If you can't put a months wages away you can't keep yourself up. If too many people are in that situation they won't want to risk losing everything for something that is likely to fail the first few times.

That communism is ok?

Yes, all right wingers are total brainwashed fools, cnn is mostly good and commies and anarchists are awesome and may even be willing to argue with you about how stupid you are.

Lol at this website.

Nice try.

Wow you are a being of pure enlightenment you actually don’t want to kill right wingers you just think they are morons.

What’s happening is that people’s only spectrum is that right wingers are either stupid or they want to kill them.

Nah son.

There is no fascist message to donald Trump.

Quit your bs.

Your the ones being brainwashed and it’s not “the rich” in general, it’s a certain group of the elites at a very high level who operate as organized crime.

You’ve correctly identified that they want us to fight.

What you haven’t realized is they do not support trump and are in fact afraid as hell of him.

Racism?

Your full of if. Concern about illegal immigration is not racism.

It’s not.

The real psy op is the idea that the cabal your referring to actually can control you and that the future isn’t bright.

This whole idea that automation is going to cause a massive struggle is total nonsense.

It’s not. The free market will sort that out just fine as it always has.

The economy is purposely crashed in order to buy up assets at a fire sale. They are just trying to convince us that the next crash is inevitable so they can attempt to implement communism/global governance.

It won’t work.

Also your example of outright lies from conservative media is nonsense.

No one knows how many illegal aliens may be voting but your a complete idiot if you don’t think many of them are.

Its extremely easy to get a license as in illegal immigrant and then your registered to vote.

There’s a damn seperate entrance at the rev in most states for immigrants.

They are given massive leeway with documentation. I’ve seen this with my own eyes.

You can buy all the fake documents you need to become a register voter.

You read websites like snopes and self refer to your own outlets to prove conservative media is lieing.

You can’t disprove a claim without evidence and there’s no hard proof that 3 million illegals are not voting.

The claim being made is that there is evidence that indicates around 3 million illegals may be voting,

You can debunk something that could be happening by saying there is not yet evidence for it.

The fact is, 90% of the media elites are absurdly against donald trump to a point of complete absurdity.

And you are all so brainwashed out there that you think handing out the olive branch of peace is calling right wingers deluded racists who don’t “know any better”.

If you understood economics you’d understand how this whole system works.

The right wing is fundamentally correct about the economy in its basic principles

The uniparty deep state takes away the wrong regulations and structures tax cuts in the wrong way to discredit the fundamental economic truth that a low tax low but smart regulation environment lifts all boats and will lead to economic growth and stability that continues.

That’s why the right is the punching bag, because the fundamental economic truths are on the right.

So theirs this injection of racism and wedge issues into the right and a ton of psy ops operating to make the right appear racist.

It is getting traction. But that begs the question: if they can't kill us off by dividing us, what will they do?

Agreed, but seriously, fuck murderous communism

Instead of this whole post you could've just posted: divide and conquer because that's what the left/right paradigm is for.

You had the opposite effect. All you did was prove your liberal bias and obviously that won't resonate well with the alt right people on here. The key is to be completely neutral in addressing this issue, but unfortunately people are still attached to their political system. They still vote and believe they have a choice. This is why you're all being manipulated and why the elite win by default.

There you go, an anarchist. That's still a political stance. I have no political affiliation whatsoever. I believe a baby being aborted is unnatural and immoral but that isn't a political issue. It's a moral issue that's been politicized. Otherwise I have no opinion on anything else because I know in the end it doesn't matter. Capitalist? Socialist? Who cares, in the end they want to start a New World Order which will be like nothing we've ever seen before. The news is designed to program the masses, not to inform them. All news outlets, from the all seeing eye CBS to the devilish Fox. As for voting? Your officials are selected, not elected. And they don't care about you. This might be too much to take in for those who are still firmly plugged into the system but it's the truth. Anyone you see on TV worships the sun, let's leave it at that.

Anarchism is the most essential and pure form of Liberalism. There are four major poles, Leftism (Progressive Egalitarianism), Rightism (Traditional Meritocracy), Individualism/Liberalism, and Collectivism/Authoritarianism.

Anarchism is the furthest extreme you can reach at the Liberal, Individualist pole. If you mix some Rightism in there, you get Anarcho-Capitalism, and if you mix some Leftism in there, you get final stage Communism that people say has never been reached, a stateless, voluntarist society. Either way, anyone who sees everyone as an individual, and doesn't draw ingroup/outgroup distinctions between their own group and other groups, is a Liberal in the end.

Bro WHAT?! How do you align collectivism and individualism on the same side of the spectrum? The right is for individual liberty, the left is for collective wellness.

Communism != individualism

Liberalism IS Individualism. Classical Liberalism is the name encompassing the beliefs coming out of the Enlightenment. These believes include a free market, private property, privacy, limited government, etc. The Enlightenment, and therefore Liberalism, are defined by Individualism. It seems to be your media that has you mixed up, since I am smart enough not to consume any propaganda national media. Also, I would recommend against using Wikipedia as your source for history.

SmallDetailsMatter

The powers that be don't need to do anything.

I don't want to be around anyone who supports:

• Racemixing

• Letting in illegals

• Diversity of skin color over diversity of thought.

Damn, bro. What did a Latina lesbian with a joint do to you?

Got impregnated by a white dude while listening to "Fuck Tha Police"

Alright, well you can deal with this then.

I'm going to keep fucking non-white women and men, supporting egalitarianism, yelling ACAB at every boy in blue I see and I'm going to keep showing people that drugs aren't something to be afraid of, but respected and used responsibly.

I bet my actions will go further to undermine your regressive way of living than yours will to mine

You'll have kids who will look like someone else's, the greatest embarassment of all.

My niece is mixed, the fuck is your problem?

And I know "you don't care". That's why you are letting it happen.

If it helps phase out people with your worldview, I'll gladly take the embarrassment.

I love how you immediately assumed that I'd be having kids with someone I had sex with. Did you get lost on your way back to 1954?

My niece is mixed,

You have my sympathies. She is black bud. The 1% drop rule. You should have stepped up and stopped it like a man.

If it helps phase out people with your worldview, I'll gladly take the embarrassment.

Just wait until you see the hard right of blacks and mexicans. Your asshole will feel the pain.

I love how you immediately assumed that I'd be having kids with someone I had sex with. Did you get lost on your way back to 1954?

There's hundreds of millions of babies in this world born from accidents.

And she's a lot more likely to be accepted and married by whatever them minority half of her race is than the majority half is.

Ah, well she doesn't live in a backwoods rural slum, so I don't really foresee that being an issue. Maybe it's different where you are.

Just wait until you see the hard right of blacks and mexicans. You and your kids will feel the pain.

Yeah, turns out every group of people has some idiots in their ranks. What if I told you I wasn't going to have kids? Aw I know, it's such a shame, my blond hair/blue eyed Aryan genes won't be passed on. Oh well

There's hundreds of millions of babies in this world born from accidents. Only one takes one drop of male juice that is so small that it can't be seen easily to make a baby.

I see you understand the basic biology between sexual reproduction. I'm proud of you

Ah, well she doesn't live in a backwoods rural slum, so I don't really foresee that being an issue. Maybe it's different where you are.

Blacks don't treat "light-skinned" people well. See Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, who've had comments made about it by black NBA players.

Thanks for your extraordinary insight, fascinating

http://theconversation.com/too-pretty-to-play-stephen-curry-and-the-light-skinned-black-athlete-76638

I happen to love the BLT community.

lol, took me a sec.

You might just want to think about cutting your internet connection then.. and maybe also just locking yourself in your trailer with your beans and bibles until the rest of humanity sodomizes ourselves death. Either way, we don't really want to be around you either.

Who is us?

Delusions of grandeur.

I just wanna be able to use guns to defend the pot I am growing for my friend's gay wedding.

The powers that be NEED TO DO LOTS of things.

I don't want to be around anyone who DOES NOT support:

• Racemixing

• Letting in illegals

• Diversity

• LBGT stuff

• Increased Feminism

• Rebelling against police

• Legalizing drugs

• This country will not be taken away from us.

I don't care if you don't like it and if you don't agree with it, deal with it.

Oh ... And look at this, my vote weighs as much as yours. See you at the midterms!

And look at this, my vote weighs as much as yours

Not in an age where people are being driven around to vote 10 times.

Hello friend!

It's been a while, but I thought we should catch up.

You seem to have assumed, correctly, that I am a white male. You've also assumed that I "won't like most minorities." I live in an area that's almost entirely inhabited by minorities. When I go to the store for groceries, or the gas station, or most any other place nearby, I am the only white person present.

Neither Jamal, nor Pablo, nor anyone else has asked for my wallet. I hold the door for them, and they hold the door for me. Believe it or not, we all act together like human beings living in a civilized society!

You're welcome to hold on to your assumptions, and you're welcome to believe in your conspiracies. Our brothers and sisters have fought and died for your right to do so.

Despite your comments, I believe that you are a good person who means well, and that, some day, the world will be as one.

May whatever God exists bless you in every way.

Neither Jamal, nor Pablo, nor anyone else has asked for my wallet.

Only you know if that's true or not, but again, you know Bernie ain't gonna be there to bail you out. You'll see and feel soon enough.

Our brothers and sisters have fought and died for your right to do so.

No, my brothers fought and died to preserve the white race and secure the existence of our people.

Despite your comments, I believe that you are a good person who means well, and that, some day, the world will be as one.

I don't give a shit about the rest of the world. We will take our country back.

Oh buddy have I got news for you: this country was decisively and irrevocably “taken” from you long ago. There ain’t no going back.

And deep down, you know that.

We will be fine. We only need one state to split/succeed.

So it’s treason then.

(Also: *secede. For someone who claims to love Anglo-Saxon culture so much, you sure don’t have a very good grasp on the language.)

Reddit wasn't using the word treason when the Catalonian's tried to split from Spain. They were fully supportive then.

I think Catalonian secession is a dumb idea and probably treasonous, although I’m not familiar enough with the Spanish constitution to have a strong legal opinion on the matter.

With respect to the legality of secession in this country, I assume when you refer to the “Jefferson Davis case” and Cynthia Nicoletti’s excellent book on so-called the trial of the century that wasn’t—so called because it never happened. So we’ll never know how some courts might have ruled in his specific situation 150 years ago.

But we do know that unilateral secession is patently unconstitutional (Texas v. White) and therefore, yes, treasonous.

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v%2E_White

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 140200}

I don't get people like you, you feel like you claim ownership over this country and embrace the principles it was founded on. But, really, you don't. Didn't our founding fathers want to break away from those who sought control over them? Now, like 250 years later, here you are trying to take rights away from people!

I don't get people like you.

Which part would you like me to explain?

You feel you have ownership over this country,

We do. Even the things I'm against were white people creations to win votes, just the wrong votes.

say you're going to protect it and claim to embrace the principles it was founded on

I don't recall saying that.

Didn't our founding fathers want to break away from those who sought control over them?

I don't think our founding fathers ever thought of where we would be today in their wildest nightmares or else they'd probably have a different opinion.

Now, like 250 years later, here you are living in the same country and trying to take rights away from people!

Our people are not from Mexico or Africa.

I wouldn't be around you. I don't associate myself with people like you. I don't care who puts what in your ass, but I don't support it and I will not allow you to put my family in harm by spreading that disease.

Homosexual behavior is a choice. It's not normal.

So you are going against people you deem nazi's by threatening violence and restricting speech huh? You'd fit right in!

Homosexual behaviour is a choice, just like heterosexual behaviour.

Men and women are naturally designed to be mates. Man and man aren't.

And the "duh cummin in butts don't make babbies" applies to like 90% of heterosexual intercourse in this magic age of birth control, so I guess you and all your friends are gonna burn in hell along with up. That is, unless you never jack off, use condoms, or have wet dreams, in which case congratulations on your celibacy, it's very godlike.

You lost me on this one, no idea what this thing is about.

And oh my goodness, calling you a dick and asking you to shut up isn't "restricting free speech" you monumental snowflake.

Asking people to stop posting things sure sounds like restricting freedom of speech to me. And the various insults are just you raising the white flag.

Dude take a xanax.

Removed. Rule 10

Removed. Rule 10

Name calling is a personal attack. If you find yourself in a position where you have to add words like "incels" to a post you should probably not hit the save button.

If you're here just to call people names or joust with your perceived enemy please move on somewhere else.

I never knew that you could fight bigotry with bigotry. You should ask the Israelis and Palestinians how that's working out for them.

It's amazing and horrifying how one or both sides can be absolutely blinded when they believe they are on the side of good. It's still bigotry my dude.

(extreme intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.)

I've seen enough of Antifa to know where it's headed and the kids running around with gangster masks will eventually do something really stupid due to their blind hatred.

MLK-

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.” Sermons from his book Strength to Love, 1963

Self defense is not extreme intolerance.

It's not self defense when people are actively looking for conflict. If a hoard of kids in masks go to a right wing/conservative event attempting to create chaos and then find themselves in a violent conflict then they're breaking laws.

If a bunch of conservatives go to gay bars with their faces covered then we can talk about self defense. Otherwise, this is still the United States and we all need to respect the law.

I think you're basically correct, but its just sad to see how far the public perception of left/right has been distorted. What you're saying is broadly speaking the classical left-wing analysis of society: the wealthy create artificial differences to divide the working class in order to maintain their continued dominance and prevent humanity from achieve its destiny of bestriding the stars.

Yes...classical left wing....as for the rest of that...idk if you're aware of who controls the government and has for the past 18 years.

commenter said the classical left-wing analysis of society, not a classical left-wing society

Who do you think it’s been in control for the last 18 Years? The way you said that I’m genuinely curious.

Democrats had a president that was ineffective, that's about as much control as they had...

Yeah, US politics have been shifting to the right for about 40 years.

So the right don't believe that divisions have never been manufactured to keep the masses divided?

Generally they seem to think those distinctions (race sex class nationality etc) are good rather than artificial, and are inherent to a person’s value and purpose.

Couldn't agree less. You are wrong that they want to kill a bunch of us off, as there will be no way to sustain them all with automation incoming. The automation argument is way overblown. The very reason they are pursuing this type of mass immigration into the West is because they need more people than the native population is providing them through natural birthrates. You can't sustain the Capitalist concept of infinite growth with a shrinking population. And you can't sustain our semi-socialistic state programs with a shrinking population either.

You are obviously correct that both the Democrats and the Republicans are Liberals. They both want neoliberal deregulated markets, and corporate control. But the people on the Right who are in support of the Republicans or in support of Conservative Inc. are all lemmings, which I'm sure is clear from your side. The only problem is you are all lemmings as well. You've read the situation that they want a mass conflagration, decimating all sides to reduce population. This is very, very far off. They have hijacked the most successful countries that they could, (the West), and gained control of our financial system. Their goal is to bust apart and deconstruct Western, European, American, and White identity until they no longer exist. Their goal is to slowly bring in more and more migrants until they constitute a majority of the population in the Western world, all while making taboo the very concept of a White country, by calling it "White privilege", or "White supremacy". By doing this, they will come into full and final control over some of the most developed areas on the planet.

Remember, all they care about is money. And 1 dollar is worth 1 dollar, no matter your race, your nationality, your language, your culture, etc. The money powers have no incentive at all to preserve any culture, any national heritage, any ethnic line. From the Capitalist point of view, these are arbitrary barriers to the free movement of Capital and Resources. If you are a Capitalist and you sell, say, socks, you would have to advertise in a dozen languages to successfully sell in Europe. At every national border, you will have to deal with tariff and inspection, in the absence of free trade. Like I said before, you will need different packing and advertisements for the local language. All of this badly constrains the vision of Globalist Corporatist Capitalism. Their answer to this problem, is mass migration. They believe that by pumping our Western nations full of foreigners, and then encouraging us to mix, and encouraging Whites to drop all racial identity, while encouraging all migrants or minorities to have a strong racial identity, they are clearly trying to subsume the traditional West into their financial system, by way of national, ethnic, and cultural dilution.

You see that they are trying to sow the seeds of conflict. What you can't see is that they are trying agitate all have-nots, against all haves, rather than equally agitating both sides against each other. This is the classic Marxist technique, which is why I call Marxism "Agitationism". They want to turn racial minorities against Whites. Now you may say they want to turn Whites against minorities. But it is completely taboo to say anything negative, true or not, about a minority in this society. It is actively taboo. Whereas speaking negatively and generalizing about Whites is not only tolerated, it is actively viewed as virtuous, and a sign that you are "woke". They want to turn sexual minorities against majorities. You may say that they want straights to turn against LGBT and Trans as well, but speaking ill about either of these groups in any type of public context will have you branded a transphobe, a homophobe, a bigot, probably a sexist, and will have you fired from your job. Whereas if you are an LGBT or Trans activist, you have 100% free reign to say absolutely whatever you want about Straights or Christians.

If what you believed was true, they would have open season, they would tolerate the bitter speech from both sides, and try to reach a fever pitch that would end in massive conflict. But instead, they tolerate and even encourage minorities from all categories becoming tribal and radicalized against their majority counterparts, and silence and shame and ostracize any opposition to this creeping change.

Are you aware of the Cultural Revolution in China? Do you believe that Mao's government was agitating both sides, and that they wanted everyone to fight? Because the real truth was that they radicalized one side to get rid of the side that they didn't want around anymore. And it is clear from the stance of the mainstream media, the corporations, the celebrities, nearly every establishment politician on both sides, that the elites in society have sided with the Racial Minorities over the Whites, sided with the Women over the Men, sided with the Atheists and the Muslims over the Christians, sided with the LGBT community over the heterosexual population. And it is because this country is a glass, a glass that was already full when this Globalist Corporatist Capitalist element came into power here. They would like to fill this glass with their essence. But before they can do that, they need to pour out what was already there, they need to create room. What was already there was what they have dubbed "The Patriarchy", aka Classical Western Civilization. White, Christian societies with socially conservative values and led by traditional families. This is the only element in the West that the Capitalist elites have it out for. This is very clear from all of their propaganda.

The White, native populations of Europe and North America WILL need to resist at some point, or else Globalist Corporatist Capitalism will displace us from all of our lands, overwriting our culture with Consumerism. And once they have finished their project in the West, they will keep spreading "Multiculturalism", AKA "Corporate Consumerism" around the rest of the world as well, ruining the rest of the beautiful and unique nations in this world, not just the White European ones. If Globalist Corporatist Capitalism was starved of the mass migration which is its lifeblood, for even 20 years, the whole system would collapse.

And it just kills me how badly Leftists have been gaslighted and tricked. They claim they are against Capitalism and the Corporations, but then they shill for every single last issue that the Capitalists and the Corporations need them to shill to survive. Whether it is Open Borders or Mass Migration, or anti-Nationalism, or support for Amnesties, all of these are being presented to you by the mass media as moral imperatives because the mass media is owned by Big Finance, and these are financial imperatives for them. Have you never asked yourself why the establishment politicians from both the Democrats and the Republicans want amnesty and immigration reform? Think of how many taxpayers they can add to the economy with the stroke of a pen. Think of how many consumers of mass produced corporate goods can be brought into the economic zone.

You have some good insights, but you have misread the situation. And you are naive to believe that CNN and MSNBC and the other Leftist media is less compromised than the Right wing mainstream media like Fox News and Breitbart. There's a very real reason that the real Right, meaning the Alt-Right and everything further Right than it, is despised by both the establishment Leftists and Rightists. And you called it out yourself, both the Left and "Right" are fundamentally Liberals. Whereas as the Real Right is not Liberal. The Real Right has been in exile for decades as taboo, and so the furthest Right thing that remained within the Overton Window become considered to be "Right wing". But the truth is that the further Right thing that remained was Conservatism, or spoken more plainly, "Status-Quo-ism". But the true Nature of the Left is Revolutionary/Progressive. The Left brings change. The true Nature of the Right is Reactionary/Traditional. The Right undoes Leftist change and rolls back society to a previous state. The "Conservatives" are Centrists, who, like I said, appear to be Right wing when everything further Right than them is banned as taboo. The establishment even supports Antifa from a moral standpoint. The only group in this entire country who have no institutional power whatsoever, who are in possible threat of being on the wrong side of public vigilantism and overt racism, are Reactionary Whites, especially Reactionary White males. The resistance to the trend is grassroots, and that resistance (the Alt-Right and everything further Right than it) is slandered and derided by polite Corporate society, Left and Right, at every single opportunity, because it is the last movement that isn't on board with Neoliberalism, Globalism, and Multicultural Consumerism.

Yes to this!!!

encouraging us to mix, and encouraging Whites to drop all racial identity, while encouraging all migrants or minorities to have a strong racial identity

This is a contradiction. How do white people lose their identity by mixing, yet minorities do not?

It's very simple. When White people mix with non-White people, the baby comes out the race of the non-White parent. You must notice people that are even slightly Black, like Stephen Curry or Lonzo Ball, identify as Black. This is because Whites have recessive genetics. Blacks are aware of this too, many speak of this. Think of a glass of clear water, and then imagine pouring a little bit of ink in. Even though the solution is part clear water, and part ink, the entire appearance of the water will be inky. Water in this case would be recessive to ink, in the way that Whiteness to non-Whiteness. Mixed children end up adopting the group identity of their PoC side.

So why does any of that matter? What is inherently special about being white vs. non-white? What quality of whiteness makes it worthy of resisting mixture?

It has absolutely nothing to do with any special quality of Whiteness. We just ARE White. We were born this way. Every single "kind" on Earth has a self-preservation instinct. We want to live. We want to survive. We want to pass down territory that we inherited to more of our kind, in the hopes that they will reproduce as well, thus keeping the link alive. Each of the human races is a beautiful and unique sub-species of Homo Sapiens, and each deserve preservation, in the same way we would for animals.

Would you ever ask a Native American what is so special about being their particular kind, that they should need reservations? Why should they want to preserve their biological form for future generations of the world to be able to experience and know, why should they want to preserve some modicum of connection to their ancestral culture? What quality about being Native American is worth preserving, worth resisting the biological and cultural mixture with the rest of the world? Why should Jews care about being Jewish, why does Israel close its borders and resist intermixing?

Every people wants to live, wants to preserve their kind, maintain and pass on a territory. This has been the human way for all time. The problem is, a coalition of all the other races, plus Whites afflicted with an Avatar/Dances with Wolves syndrome, plus Jews, has turned against White/Western civilization, and means to destroy it through colonization, habitat displacement, and dilution. I'm not saying this is necessarily malicious or premeditated. For most of these people, it is a natural instinct to dispossess the threat you perceive in your ecology if possible.

It just doesn't ring true for me. Your whole argument is based on preserving these beautiful subspecies against dilution with the "rest of the world"...and the rest of the world is just...more people. There's this vague sense of "otherness" in your words that doesn't really exist to me. I'm not trying to change your mind here, you seem pretty grounded in this belief, which is fine with me. I appreciate you taking the time to explain the logic behind it. That one assumption, though, I can't get behind.

I think dude is just racist but has that Ben Shapiro vibe where he paints it in a pseudo intellectual light instead of just blatantly saying "white people are better than brown ones"

no hes saying that they are actively pursuing an a global conspiracy to eliminate a heritage to make us more effect consumers. they are actively making us into the lower classes of brave New world.

No he's not he's just pointing out true facts. The basic point he's making out is that its inconsistent everybody expects "whites" to support a full mixed race worldwide yet laws and culture in most other countries do not support this idea and I guarantee you all other cultures wish to protect their culture as much if not more than white people. The proofs in the pudding, ever gone to China and been to English town where you can't see one white person??? The argument against this guy should be pushed against all races or maybe not pushed at all.

but the active target are "whites" currently. he is saying that there are powerful multinational interests using propoganda, thought policing, predictive programming and other MKultra techniques to form a system of ideology within the "white" subgroup that is hostile towards their own ideological and genetic interest.

Sounds to me like he just can't get women so he doesn't want those darn brown people taking them. If he can't have em nobody can.

What a darn shame..

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that's a projection or mental conditioning on your part. plenty in these movements have families and are married. actively manipulating the world population and genetic structure to eliminate trade barriers and consumer restrictions is PSYCHO AS HELL. it's literally the story of the tower of babel

He don't like our ink.

-the browns

It factually isn't all "just people" though. I get that is your feeling, that you value them all equally. And that is very noble. But you are factually incorrect to say that we aren't unique and different "breeds" of people. That is like saying of Dobermans and Rottweilers and Pitbulls and German Sherpherds, "hey, they're all dogs, who cares if we mix them all together". And then you mix them all together, and lose all the breeds. This is no negative statement or feeling to anyone else of a different kind. We can all share this planet together. But it seems odd to me to deny something that you can see with your own eyes. Please look at this picture of a European skull next to an Australian Aboriginal skull.

http://i41.tinypic.com/u6lwl.jpg

If there were no emotionality, no morality, and no political correctness attached to it, if we were dealing with animal specimens, we would classify those two specimens clearly as two different sub-species.

You're putting a whole lot of effort into making this distinction between "breeds" of people, then stepping back and saying "but hey, we can all share this planet together!" I don't buy it, dude.

Why? The "breeds" point is a fact. If you can't see with your eyes that Black Africans and Scandinavian Whites are two different breeds of human sapiens, also known as two different "races", then I don't know what to tell you. But if you believe that if it's true that there are multiple human races/breeds, then there can be no harmony between them, no sharing of the planet, then that is something to examine in your own psyche.

I know a lot of people with your exact reaction. Also see a lot of people with that reaction online. They basically react that if it were true that there were any real differences, then the only choice left would be conflict, war or something. That I don't understand.

The differences in human types are real. That is a fact. That in no way means that we should do anything bad to anyone, any more than discovering that there were real genetic differences between Rottweilers and Dobermans should cause someone to go postal. It's not a bad thing, it's a beautiful thing! I'm a bit of a weeaboo, I enjoy Asian culture, food, and anime is a guilty pleasure of mine. I would be devastated if Japan was under the assault of mass, colonization level immigration, to the point where the character of the nation, and the future of their biological kind were brought into question, just as I am concerned about the same in England right now.

I just personally see no reason to doubt that someone could see the obvious, the biological difference between different sub-species of human beings, and that they would still be able to be friendly, civil, and cooperative with those people. They are still human beings after all.

They basically react that if it were true that there were any real differences, then the only choice left would be conflict, war or something. That I don't understand.

For me, it's because I don't see the point in obsessing over these differences except to create conflict. People should be able to mix as they please. White people aren't going to be rubbed out any time soon. Same goes for black and brown people. There's just so MANY of us, goddammit, it's pointless for you to be so obsessed over these "breeds" as you call them. It's just a very myopic view, in my opinion.

But knowing that you are English puts it into some context, at least. I'm in the US, race relations are a bit different here. There was legal segregation in my state less than a century ago. So you understand why I find the idea of keeping races separated to be abhorrent.

Take care

Today I learned native Americans are white and a drop is still a thing to some people in the 21st century.

You cant you even define what White is

You anti-Whites have no trouble defining White when complaining about White privilege or White supremacy. I can easily define White. A White person is a descendant of the natural peoples of Europe. This includes many sub-races, like the Nordics, the Slavs, the Anglos, the Mediterraneans, etc. In a certain way, we don't get to choose what we are perceived as. One of the best ways to determine if someone is White, is to show that person to a PoC and ask them whether or not you are White. Maybe one day we will need to shrink it down, but right now, I'm alright with White being anyone and everyone that PoC want to target and harass as being racist, even though they are openly racist versus Whites, as being colonizers, even as they have freshly entered our country and do not mean to leave anytime soon, call us misogynists, even as we have set up the most tolerant societies on Earth, and they want to bring in peoples from countries where women have to be wrapped like mummies and gays are thrown off of buildings. Whoever the PoC see as White and want to silence and oppress and shame, we will accept you as a brother at least in the short term. We can hash out who goes where once we've weathered this storm.

Whoever the PoC see as White and want to silence and oppress and shame, we will accept you as a brother at least in the short term. We can hash out who goes where once we've weathered this storm.

lol calm down drama queen and go to bed, its late in America.

Best explanation i can come up with is somebody who's white and was born in a white dominated society, or a white person who doesn't know their heritage making them just the colour white without race really considered. White is self identifiable all whites are multi cultured so its your choice if you want to be white, a parents ethnicity, or the ethnicity of further generations back of your family. I personally identified as white until 21 because I never met my real black dad.. I'm white but somehow sometimes people think I'm black or Mexican or italian or Spanish, bloody ridiculous, once I met my real dad and tried to sort of embrace my tribal type culture I'm now instantly europeon-maori which basicly means I went from white to white-bolack, I believe all cultures are great and we should mix less in some countries more in others. White countries are embracing the mix but sadly also making it PC you can't argue against it without looking like a racsist... Yet in any other country they can argue against these social ideas and nobody sees anything racsist about it...

Is "white" is a cultural thing or a genetic thing?

Personal choice based on who you are, I don't believe its just genetic as very few people who consider themselves white would be accepted as white, as a previous post said there's supposedly two cultural origins of a true white person ?well we all know that's not true realistically, but that also depends on your point of view.. As I say its personal preference if your white skinned I believe you can choose your white due to your culture, genes, both, or even neither. As I said personally I grew up considered myself white cultured cause I grew up in a Europeon run country and my skin was white.. That was it. When I met my dad as an adult and looked back on my life, friends, the things we did, and said, the trends etc I grew up in more of a black culture and learnt to embrace that in a positive manner also. Now I am white-black or black-white for the anally retentive PC types.

You literally sound mentally I'll. I'm not attacking you, but you should talk to someone.

I have no instinct to "preserve the white race" and I'm as white as they come. I think you just need to admit that you're just kinda racist.

Yes, I am racist. They distorted the meaning of that word. Does a Nationalist hate Nations? Does a Humanist hate Humans? Is an Anarchist against Anarchy? No. Racist doesn't mean that you hate anybody, it means that you have broken through the corporate/progressive brainwashing and have realized the obvious: Race is real. Race is not a social construct. We are all very advanced primates on a rock orbiting a ball of fire hurtling through space. We have a genetic interest in staying alive. I hope you realize that even plants and animals have an instinct to preserve and reproduce their kind, as does every single other human race on this planet.

https://treesforlife.org.uk/forest/symbiosis/

I have no urge to preserve my kind okay stop fucking saying that. You're making me wanna go fuck an Asian or something just out of principle.

Then something is biologically wrong with you. You are an evolutionary dead end. And that's fine. Not every single person is meant to be a positive forward development for their kind. But just know that plants, animals, insects, and all the other human races have the instinct to further their DNA, and even subconsciously understand evolution more deeply than you do.

We don't choose to be white, but we do choose what we consider to be the important parts of our identity. I am white, but that is not important to my identity, so I have no worry at all that non-whites might inherit my legacy.

I choose my intelligence and reason, my kindness and good intentions, and my love for myself and my fellow people.

I just hope you realize that from a Darwinian, evolutionary sense, everything you've just said is insane. Even plants and animals know to create a secure future for their kind. And literally all the other human races know this, as well. When it was our kind that was invading them, they thoroughly rejected us. By your logic, when we colonized Africa, they shouldn't have cared that we had a different skin color, and that given our amazing intelligence and reason, that they shouldn't have cared if their legacy or territory was inherited by Whites, rather than by their children. Don't you hear how absurd it sounds if you reverse the example?

You are not understanding what I was saying...

By your logic, when we colonized Africa, they shouldn't have cared that we had a different skin color, and that given our amazing intelligence and reason, that they shouldn't have cared if their legacy or territory was inherited by Whites, rather than by their children.

This does not apply when the other race is brutalizing people. If they had been the same skin color, they still would have 'cared'.

What I am trying to say is that me and you both have a choice as to how we identify ourselves, and you are choosing being white as an important aspect of that identity, when you do not have to.

You don't have to, but it is illogical to not do so. All other human groups, along with all known flora and fauna examples, work specifically for the Darwinian survival of their kind. Even about half of Whites do so. The only biological example known to man, of a creature that does not identify with it's own kind, and does not care to work to guarantee its survival, is the White Liberal (leaning anywhere from Left to Right, Libertarians are still Liberals).

And your anecdotal example of your minority friend who doesn't see race, doesn't invalidate that as a group, the entire group DOES see race, and has strong feelings about Whites as a race, whether you consider yourself White or not.

work specifically for the Darwinian survival of their kind.

Right, and as a species, humankind decided to work to kill of racists rather than the brown people. We'd all much rather have them around.

You realize I said the Darwinian survival of their own kind, not the extermination of any other kind. You are making wild assumptions and huge logical leaps out of nowhere. I hope you can see that.

all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens, and (as far as applicable) subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[19][20]

So, yeah...there's that. If you would like to deny science all just to cling to idea about hatred, then I think I'm done satisfying my curiosity here.

I said absolutely nothing hateful. Don't let your imagination run away with you.

Yeah, white nationalism is pretty disgusting, man. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. It's kind of amazing how much reality you are willing to deny just to hate others.

You are a deluded person. You have convinced yourself of how hateful I am, somehow. I just don't have a flat-earth tier, borderline creationist view on humans. I understand Darwinian evolution, and I can accept that it happened to people too, not just animals. You will be forced to accept science and evolution at some point.

Very much agree I was gonna bring up the same point with worsened grammer

Native Americans don't need reservations. Reservations were created by the white man to keep NAs out of their way and warehoused.

Do Lions and Elephants in Africa not need nature preserves, either? If you had your way, Native Americans over the next few hundred years would mix with the different peoples around them, they would be absorbed into modern consumerist culture, and then the group that once existed that was called Native American would be gone forever, like the dodo or the dinosaur. I really don't understand how people are so nihilistic. We care enough to help endangered animals, but apparently the same shouldn't be afforded to human beings.

I'm sure if a Native American wanted to produce children with a partner from any race they'd proceed to do so. As a matter of fact there are many multiracial folks here in the American south who have NA blood. You're not doing anyone a favor by warehousing them on a rez. Those who want to keep their old ways should be allowed to and those who wish not should be allowed not to. Native Americans are more American than anyone else. They're not animals to be kept in a cage. That analogy is ridiculous at face value anyway. Humans aren't animals nor endangered.

just to be clear: are you asking white people to justify the continued existence of white people?

lol, I'm responding to one person, not "white people" as a group...so no that's not what I'm asking

He’s saying that because “biracial” people identify with their minority ancestry, the white component of all mixed people tends to disappear.

That’s what I got from it, at least

Why's that a problem though? I could give a half of a fuck what race someone identifies as. "oh my God! Western society is collapsing because muh heritage"

but just because you don't have pride in your heritage, doesn't mean an institutional and global campaign to eliminate it, is ok. that's active social and genetic manipulation to further a capitalistic agenda. inb4 racist Hispanic here

Heritage =/= race though. You can be proud of your heritage without needing to put particular pride into the color of your skin.

Is that what other cultures are told? I think the issue is that one “heritage” is shamed while all others are celebrated

What is white heritage exactly?

what you are saying isn't mutually exclusive. they are targetting heritage's of certain haplogroups that pertain to "white people"

Okay but at the same time you can't go around saying that everyone is hardwired to preserve their racial identity. I could give a fuck about that. Stop fucking telling me everyone cares about it, because the don't. Most people could give a fuck. That's my point.

but as have freedom of speech and freedom of association just like you. we aren't saying everyone has this instinct- a lot of people have been domesticated by modern society and it's moral relativity. we are merely spreading ideas to garner support and to point out agendas. why isn't China, Japan, India, Nigeria, Pakistan or other countries pushed to be more multicultural? how come people aren't trying to ship venezualans all across the world to different ethnic zones? this is the first targeted campaign and people are reacting.

Now your mention of Japan piques me

And FYI just because you're Hispanic doesn't automatically exempt you from being racist...

I didn't say I wasn't racist. I just didn't want to give the impression I was supporting white culture exclusively. I believe that if a collection of any race chooses to protect their identity, they have the freedom to do it, without being called RACIST, prejudice, bigoted or nazis- nor having a negative stigma attached to them.

Hm well I suppose if like minded people could do that without being hateful towards other groups that wouldn't be the worst. I don't agree with it but if they don't hurt other people that's their business.

There isn’t one. I’m just trying to clarify OP’s point (though its notwithstanding)

WTF is a white person anyway? It's such a vague definition. According to the US census definitions, you're white whether you come from Norway or Yemen. That makes no fucking sense.

This sounds like a tenuous grasp on genetics, but I don't know enough to dispute it so +1 for the basketball references.

Holy shit, your entire world view based on epigenetics is completely warped.

Indeed, the only real way to win is to mix everyone together and then evolve past medieval cultures and tribalism.

I don't really have an opinion on it. It just will happen, according to the data.](https://www.livescience.com/34228-will-humans-eventually-all-look-like-brazilians.html) Our world is shrinking and most of the new generations in all countries do not care about interracial relationships, and often approve of it with overwhelming support. I'm white, and I honestly wouldn't give a shit if my family 3 generations from now was mixed. All I want those generations to have is the same opportunities that I did, that the world is not a shitstorm of 40% unemployment, and environmental disasters on a global scale. Race mixing is the least of the next 3-4 generations worries, right now.

I guess nobody will understand how serious AI is until it takes their jobs right in front of their eyes. This happened to me. I watched it unfold right before me during the DARPA challenge. These AIs did work that would have taken me weeks in mere seconds, and it was accurate and of higher quality than anything I could produce. They found patterns that no human engineer could have found without a lot of analysis.

The fact i stumbled upon this fair point downvoted heavily highlights that the critique going from right to left and left to right is currently a false equivalence as is their reaction to that critique.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

What job is truly outside the grasp of AI, big data and automation? I think we're pretty fucked unless this technocracy is somehow benevolent and decides the means of production satisfies the needs of the people, all people.

You are the problem. People with your mindset will destroy everything in this world that was unique and beautiful. You want to take all the colors on the painter's palette and mix them all together into brown. We will resist you until the last.

We will resist you until the last.

Alright, go for it then. You and the other white supremacists already lost that war when you decided one race was superior to another. Your ideology is long dead and is dying. It will die off in a couple generations, no matter what you do about it. Race't even something most people think or care about. For a majority of the planet, it's not an issue.

You are deeply uninformed on this issue, and your entire perception on it comes from living in your bubble in the West. You think the billion Chinese don't care about race? You don't think the ethnonationalist countries of Japan, South Korea and Israel don't care about race? And even in the West, you don't think Blacks and Hispanics care about race? Hell, even White progressives are obsessed with race, constantly calling out "White privilege" and "White supremacy". African Americans are obsessed with race, they perceive everything through a racial lense. They literally have a movement called Black Lives Matter. The Hispanic identity movement is literally called La Raza, which, translated to English, means "The Race".

If Japan doesn't care about race, then why don't they have multiculturalism? Why do they use the power of law to keep their country Asian? If Mexico doesn't care about race, then why do they have a southern border wall, brutal deportations of illegal immigrants into Mexico, and immigration laws that purposely protect the ethnic balance in the country of supermajority Mestizo? If Israel and the Jews don't care about race, why are they deporting 40,000 Blacks in the country, right now! Google it! Everyone in the world, all other races and cultures, and even animal species and even plant species, care about providing a stable and sustainable territory for THEIR KIND. It implies no hate to anyone else!

I'm guessing that you would be against the European colonization of Africa in the 19th and 20th centuries, right? You realize that the Africans rejected us because of our race, right? We were different than them, we arrived and tried to find a new life on this new land, filled with opportunity, and they fought us and never accepted us, and eventually we had to leave the continent almost completely. Did the Africans not care about race?

You live in a bubble, and you are completely unaware of the worldwide stance on ingroup ethnic outlooks among the peoples of this planet.

You live in a bubble, and you are completely unaware of the worldwide stance on ingroup ethnic outlooks among the peoples of this planet.

No, I don't live in a bubble. I'm with the majority of the planet that thinks: "If you're not an asshole, you're alright." Anywhere I've ever traveled this has been the norm. People are surprisingly accepting, no matter your culture, if you're a not a dick and are respectful.

And when the races mix, so what? How is that bad at all? You can't give out one single explanation that is rooted in fact and not feelings. Sorry you're such a snowflake and can't accept that people really don't give a shit about race.

If anyone lives in a bubble, it's you. You live in a bubble thinking your world view is obviously the right one, and that, since everyone of your white supremacist buddies agrees with you, it must be the norm. To anyone not living in your off-the-rails worldview and with a healthy worldview, what I say is obvious as fuck: no one cares about race very much. They care about making their children learn, putting food on the table, and taking care of their community. If you travel and expose yourself to more of the world, it's so obvious.

The data shows we are rapidly approaching a time where the international identity is stronger than national identity. And ethnic identity is already weaker than ethnic identity in most of the developed world. By the time I'm an old fuck, most of the world will have a global internet culture. If you just take a look at all the subcultures that the internet has created, you can see that they do not live within borders.

I've traveled, far and wide, actually, and I've exposed myself to a respectable portion of the world. And what I have learned, is that anyone who isn't infected by White Liberalism cares very much about their people and their in-group identity. This includes American minorities, and people in countries I've been to all over the world. I recently spent some time in Japan, and let me tell, you those, people definitely care about race.

If African Americans "don't give a shit about race", why are the always prattling on about it? Why are they always saying Black Lives Matter, and accusing us of White Supremacy if they don't see race? If Hispanics aren't interested in race, why do they have groups called La Raza, the Race. Why is Israel deporting 40,000 Blacks right now, and have Arabs there in open air ghettos? Why do White South African farmers live in armed compounds with 24/7 security? I'm sure it's all because these people couldn't care less about race.

And no, the argument against race mixing is NOT emotional, it is purely fact based and pragmatic. It is you who are making the emotional appeal. We are saying that we should act in the same pattern as the other human races, and the entire animal kingdom, and relearn to value our existence as a unique and distinct kind, and seek to reproduce more like us. This is the cycle of nature. This is what all living things everywhere seek to achieve as the first and best case scenario.

And no, the argument against race mixing is NOT emotional, it is purely fact based and pragmatic.

I've already linked a few studies. Where's your evidence to back up your claims?

Machines are already thinking for themselves

Clouded thinking. Machines are thinking for others. Big difference. They are running procedures. The modern day slaves who are simply running procedures themselves should be afraid of automation. Amyone who uses the skightrstr inhenuity or creativity should NOT be worries, especially in this lifetime.

Hacking software is incredibly complicated and time consuming. It requires a lot of creativity to identify patterns that lead to system take over. If that can get automated, most intellectual labor can. Problems you think AI can't solve because it requires creativity have already had AI applied to them:

• AI has created it's own language.
  
• AI has created art indistinguishable from human art.
  
• AI can compose music as well as a human.
  

If that can get automated, most intellectual labor can

Sure. I'm a programmer. The ways in which software is hacked grows due to incredibly complicated and time consuming tasks by the greatest software hackers. If one can develop the algorithm to automate this "complicated and time consuming" task, then it no longer is complicated or time consuming. There is officially a procedural way in which the flaw is exposed and utilized.

This is the state of the art in "automated hacking." I've seen no indication whatsoever that an AI has been creative in the sense it added a new method of hacking to it's repertoire. If it did, then this really was sourced by the algorithm of the programmer who designed this AI. The intelligence and creativity is in the programmed code behind the AI that seemingly broke through.

AI has created it's own language. The programmer created a program creative enough to only require the relationship between words for the passing of information between the agents. In this way, all languages are created but there really is limitless combinations, ways to point a string of characters to a realer entity. Robots are free to choose whatever they'd like and given a cluster of them one naturally rises to be most useful.

AI has created art indistinguishable from human art. It has no idea of the symbolic art in which humans are capable of. If it displayed symbolism in it's produced work it was only because it copied the human created templates.

AI can compose music as well as a human. I'm a programmer. I'm also a musician. Played trumpet for 7 years.

Obviously an AI cannot make vocal music like this: https://soundcloud.com/nobalai/ghosts-in-my-head-ft-sinead-mccarthy-1 https://soundcloud.com/nobalai/losing-control?in=nobalai/sets/my-own-inadequacy It can't write the novel combination of meaningful words (poetry) Nor can it vocalize them with the wondrous power of human vocal cords

And there isn't any indication whatsoever an 'intelligent' music producing robot can make an instrumental like this:
https://soundcloud.com/nobalai/noble-lie-i?in=nobalai/sets/their-back-to-the-light

I've heard some robotic compositions. They essentially copy and sometimes merge basic templates from repetitive songs, or if skilled, rearrange the notes of an orchestral piece while maintaining harmony.

Basically they piece together musical shards (phrases, chords, passages etc.) of human musical genius. They haven't added any genius to the pool of music for instance. Nothing game changing. Nothing unique in the sense of an addition to a genre or a positive mutation of one.

This is because Whites have recessive genetics.

I believe the scientific term is cuck genetics.

Dude you just went full retard. You are saying that interracial babies will always come out dark because that's what happens with water. Okay.

No, they (almost) always come out dark, because that's what happens with recessive genetics. Try to stay on track.

That's the most racist shit I've read in a long time. "white" is clear and pure and "black" taints it? You know thats all in your head right? If someone was half white half black in Africa, they'd see them as white, and the black was the pure race.

Seriously you are reading way too far into that. Of course that's how they'd see it in Africa, that's obvious and it makes all the sense in the world. I'm not making a moral judgment, I'm speaking about the way recessive genes react when they meet dominant genes. You moralized something was nothing like that.

why are white genes recessive? I'd say mixed people are usually right in the middle when it comes to color.

They are recessive because they are highly refined. It's much easier to knock over a sand castle than to build one. Remember, as the Africans say, they were here first, and they are essentially the more default version of humanity, whereas Whites were a branching genetic mutation that happened to the extreme environments in Europe.

Well yes, they are in the middle, but they also aren't White. That's the point. As for why are White genes recessive? That's a good question. Why when you mix White paint and Black paint does the paint take on the character of the Black in a more dominant way than the White? It just seems that melanin, the coarse and curly hair, are all "stronger features", versus our more delicate features, and so they dominate. But that is all my layman's speculation, I don't understand the science in a way that I could explain that, unfortunately.

It's just your perspective though, not some fundamental aspect of genetics like dominance or whatever. You notice the black features because you are white and everyone around you is white. If you were an African in Africa and saw a mixed person you'd notice the white features because they are different from baseline and probably tell yourself that white features are dominant. Look the, the hair curls are looser, and the skin is lighter, etc.

Lmfao here we go can't make any racial examples without it being racsist just cause he's white not pushing white idealisation but just explaining how you all contradict yourselves. Let's put it this way u have a glass full of ink... You add some water and its still black as farrk as soon as a tiny bit of ink is added to water it is tainted(the colour not with a disease) and the child will most likely not identify as white even if the white cultures are dominant in his family line.

Tainted. nice word. Your thinking is tainted bro.

Race is not an actual classification of people. Would you care to talk at all about what is meant when people say, "Race is a social construct"?

People who say that race is a social construct are no different than Flat Earthers. The Human Genome Project in 2003 mapped the human genome, finally proving what people have been able to obviously see with their own two eyes, that there are genetic differences between the visually different groups such as Europeans, Africans, and Asians. Given that I've gone outside before, and personally met Black people, Asian people, Indian people, and am myself a White person, I have seen proof in the existence of race.

Remember, race is a euphemism for sub-species. When dealing with animals, if two creatures are genetically similar enough to mate and consistently produce viable offspring, we consider them as belong to the same species. And when subgroups of this species become obviously distinct from each other, due to separation and adaptation to environment, we consider them to be different sub-species of the same species. If animals from one subgroup are distinguishable from one in another subgroup at a rate of 80% accuracy, they are sub-species of that larger species.

So here is my question for you. Can you tell a White person from a Black person accurately at least 8 out of 10 times? If so, then Blacks are a different sub-species of Homo Sapiens than Whites are. This difference we colloquially call "Race". To imply that this genetic reality, caused by evolution and Darwinism, is only a social construct, is like saying "God put the dinosaur bones there to test your faith", or "the World is flat!".

Genetic differences does not make race a scientific phenotype. You are genetically different from your siblings.

Can you tell a White person from a Black person accurately at least 8 out of 10 times? If so, then Blacks are a different sub-species

Are you and your siblings different sub-species? Because I can tell a difference between those also.

Why argue in bad faith? You can call this dude a lot of things, but he's genuine. Why not be genuine back?

How am I arguing in bad faith? Its pretty straigjtforward. Siblings are genetically different, so his argument is invalid. There's nothing disingenuous about it.

I don't believe you're that stupid.

What are you talking about? Honestly I think that's pretty rude. I know about as little about science because I am just not a science kind of person...I spent my life learning about other things. So, maybe I am "that stupid" if that's what you're referring to. But with as little as I know about science it is enough to know that saying "genetic difference makes a sub-species," is completely wrong. I also know enough to understand that children have a mix of genetic input from both parents that is not identical. So unless you want to stop being rude and vague, and ex0lain yourself, I'm gonna block you.

You're intentionally pretending he said something he obviously didn't say. It's odd to me that you would do this. I'm just asking why you did it. I don't really expect much of an answer, to be honest. You'll probably just continue to do what you're doing now.

Sorry, but what he said is that genetic difference 'that is distinguishable 80% of the time' equals a subspecies. I addressed the most obvious one of many reasons that was wrong. If you want to argue with him some way, then you do that. That's how that works.... But I wouldn't expect that from you. You'll probably just continue to do what you're doing now.

Removed. Rule 10

If you like, but I wasn't attacking him.

Don't be a sophist, you know that isn't how it works. It's possible to tell between different dogs of the same sub-species (breed), does that invalidate the idea of distinct breeds of dogs? The point is the ability to distinguish specimens by kind, by general templates, rather than by individuality.

Read this if you need clarification on the reality of sub-species as a scientifically accepted fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies

The genetic difference you are claiming does not have clear lines, man. There is no way to tell if a person is this or that race, you can't even tell that from their DNA.

Races have been interbreeding since, literally all of human history. There is no clear delineation between races.

Science just doesn't work the way you are claiming it does here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics

Don't drop the continuum fallacy on me, friend. The colors on a color wheel also perfectly blend, are you going to try and claim that there is no such thing as red or blue or green or yellow, etc.?

https://i.stack.imgur.com/Akobq.png

That image should demonstrate. And yes, there are billions of unmixed people. Do the Chinese, Japanese and South Koreans look mixed race to you? Do the Nordic Scandinavians like the Blonde haired, Blue eyed Swedes look mixed race to you? Do the jet black Namibian and Nilotic Africans look mixed race to you? Obviously not.

The first to challenge the concept of race on empirical grounds were the anthropologists Franz Boas, who provided evidence of phenotypic plasticity due to environmental factors,[64] and Ashley Montagu, who relied on evidence from genetics.[65] E. O. Wilson then challenged the concept from the perspective of general animal systematics, and further rejected the claim that "races" were equivalent to "subspecies".[66]

Human genetic variation is predominantly within races, continuous, and complex in structure, which is inconsistent with the concept of genetic human races.[67]

You literally just quoted me Lewontin's Fallacy. Good job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens, and (as far as applicable) subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[19][20]

They identify as black because they invariably get identified by others as black, in part due to the established unofficial (and once official) "one-drop" beliefs.

And then there's the fact that, as successful individuals in the face of a standing claim to guaranteed inferiority and failure, there's a lot of reason to "stand up for" and represent one part of their heritage over the other.

Give me a country where white people have historically suffered the inequality that blacks have in the West, and I'm certain you'll see an inversion of the trend with the mixed people standing up for their Caucasian side.

Give me a country where white people have historically suffered the inequality that blacks have in the West, and I'm certain you'll see an inversion of the trend with the mixed people standing up for their Caucasian side.

Easy peasy: Russia. Russia abolished serfdom in 1861. Yes, the same year.

The one drop beliefs exist with White people for a reason. It is due to the absurdly recessive nature of our DNA. One drop of Black for example, does make the person what Canada would call, a "visible minority". There is a part of the human brain dedicated to determining whether the creature that you are looking at, human or animal, is your kind. It calculates an estimated genetic differential between you. It's quite clear when looking at an animal that they are not a good reproductive fit, (which is the evolutionary pressure that created this process). When looking at other human sub-species, it is impossible for this part of the brain not to notice, along with the visual part of your brain, that this person is different in some way. Maybe they get treated worse because of it, like they had been by White conservatives, maybe they get babied and pampered and treated unnaturally better because of it, like they are by White progressives. But they will get some kind of special or different treatment, since no matter how much you lie to yourself, you notice that they are different.

You just went all the way back to the single drop doctrine used to determine if a person should be enslaved or not. Wow.

Maybe I've misread your comment, but I'm not advocating for any kind of slavery.

I didn't say you were. The single drop doctrine was used to define who was a slave in the US. It was also used to determine who was black or white from reconstruction until the Civil Rights Act. It wouldn't surprise me if it were used now in red states. Why does it matter which side of the family a mixed race human claims. Human is human. White, black, brown, yellow, red are all humans. If I painted myself purple I'd still be a human under purple paint. Race is only as deep as the skin.

"Race is only as deep as the skin" is a factually incorrect statement. Race is much, much deeper than that. Different races have different strengths, different weaknesses, unique genetic disorders they can get. Different races have different average levels of intelligence. Some human groups have DNA alleles that work off of an entirely different 2-repeat structure, rather than the 3-repeat structure used by most human groups.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24326626

Are we all human? Of course. Does that mean we are all interchangeable and exactly the same? Definitely not. It isn't a cultural choice that the NBA is mostly Black. Blacks are superior to Whites athletically in contests of running and jumping. It's not like if a Black person were an Albino, that they would lose their predisposition to those physical advantages. Which is what would happen with your theory that race is only as important as skin color.

Do you understand how the different races came into being? We all shared a common ancestor, around 100,000 years ago or more, at some point, we split up, went different directions, and different groups of us found ourselves isolated in wildly different environments. Some found themselves in a harsh, icy world with months of darkness, (Europeans), some found themselves on an equally harsh plateau, with the sun glinting constantly in their eyes, (Asians), and some remained where our life began, in the equatorial Savannahs and Jungles (Africans). The reason that these groups are different today, is because very, very different things were need to thrive. This is how evolution works.

This is possible to observe in the human species without any prejudice and malice. It's just the truth. It's just taking what we all understand about evolution, which we apply to animals and understand is obviously true, and breaking away the last vestiges of creationism, this belief that all humans are exactly equal and the same, that race isn't real, and somehow, human beings weren't subject to evolution. This outlook will take will probably take decades if not hundreds of years to crack. But eventually people will have to accept the truth, that human beings evolved, just like all other living things on Earth. Especially now that we have access to genetic data, and this is no longer a theory but a fact, people will at some point have to accept it.

But, for example, Galileo's claims that the Earth revolved around the sun, and not the other way around, weren't accepted by the public at large for 200 years. This fact was only definitively proved in 2003 when the Human Genome Project successfully discovered how to map the human genome. And since then, they have definitely proved that groups that are visually distinct from each other are also genetically distinct from each, while being genetically similar among themselves. It's been 15 years since then. So by that metric, we still have 175 years until the world accepts this one.

Or maybe its because historically mixed race people haven't been considered white in America BY white people? You ever hear of the one drop rule? The fact that "white" includes everything from super pale Nords to dark skinned mediterranean people, who are sometimes darker than "nonwhite" groups, doesn't really help

A badly worded answer-Basically minorities are told to be here yet when white go to China for example you won't see adverts saying stand up and an add saying were all in this together with faces of blacks, whites, asians, Hispanics etc. So yea they're told to stand up and be strong and proud as minorities and we are basicly told to not be bigots accept people, its good fo' da keds. Minority races countries, their majority isn't being dilluded like white culture and told to accept everybody bring everybody in you go to an Asian country you'll never see a full street of white people and think "wtf are we in america." Whites slowly lose the majorities identity by slowly making the whites the minority, I'm sure there are some cities and many towns already in white mans lands were whites are minorities already. We are told all these things to let this keep going until we are fully mixed or we are bad people..

Here in new Zealand we let Chinese come in and buy anything, an example is a chinese man my father met through real estate who has 100+ properties and many businesses just for one rich Chinese man, yet in china a Chinese can only purchase one property and an outsider cannot buy any property without strict guidelines I'm sure, this one rule pushes them into everybody else's societies but keeps them very strong proud and the huge majority all minorities will never beat the majority although I'm sure in nz kiwis are already a minority.. Also chinese have strict cultural beliefs and standards to sustain even in other countries, they will often live in tight knit communities, they have many Chinese communities were many don't socialise with non Chinese, they only employ Chinese and house Chinese with the ridiculous amount of housing and businesses they are buying from us. It's also easy for them because they nearlu all get 0 interest loans through dodgy businees, money laundering and many more ways I havnt really looked into. Very smart culture, we should all learn from them.

They are one of the most educated cultures in the world, we should learn from them. Just have to throw this in, Politically correct is a ridiculous term that basicly means to me..be fake, don't be honest about your opinions, don't joke. Let's keep reality behind closed doors huh fellas. Sounds like how the goverment officials are supposed to act because they keep a high level of standards. Although we are being manipulated to act this way for no reason. Be honest about who you are and what you think, tell your mate a joke about their race and laugh together turn this negativity to normal human interaction and social behaviour into positivity... Politically correct attacks people being honest or joking? How is that good they are making reality into a negative thing. We need to make it positive, I tell you a dumb joke about ur race, you say one back, we laugh(positive). Wtf happened to sticks and stones? Seems like an step backwards from the original saying. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will absolutely annihilate my weakened Psyche and destroy the world after crumbling all of society's pc wall's

Also what is a white racial identity?

I identify as having Irish ancestors, but not as some overarching white race.

Thats where they dont get it, theyre trying to send out this great white identiy rallying cry while never considering theyre off base with that form of identity politics.

Seem to me more like a cry for help from those dudes not able to interact with real women... There must be more than pornhub for us to fulfill our sexual interests...

That's the bruden when you want to reproduce but nobody want's to engage and interact with you... :)

Didn’t read it all to be honest, but I don’t believe the immigration is for economic growth. In the past it was, but not the last couple decades.

Maybe for half working Mexicans in US, but not for refugees and migrants to Europe that have proven to stay on welfare and have kids that follow suit.

That’s economic destruction.

It is believed by conspiracy theorists that an overly large wave of refugees on welfare can crash the Euro economy and that politicians are paid off to make this happen while pushing ideals of multiculturalism and claiming as you did that we need to increase the population.

I’m sure there will be a couple Afghan prodogies, but most will be welfare recipients or service workers unless something changes from the pattern of the last 20 years.

Its not a conspiracy, its just a side effect of a decade and a half of wanton destruction by the west of middle eastern states. If not for the never-ending war in a half dozen or so countries, those millions of refugees would never have left their homes in the first place.

The conspiracy is that we destabilized those countries, as well as places in Central and South America, to provide a migrant flow to our countries, run by elites who desperately need them to prop up our strained financial system. These people have no reason to come to us if their country is fine. Yet the USA needs 1 million LEGAL migrants every year to keep up with their GDP projections. They can't have a year where we don't get a million, or else someone's social security isn't getting paid. We are lighting fires just on the other side of 3rd world peoples, in the attempt, (and success), to drive them towards our borders. Where we have corrupt politicians like Merkel in Europe or basically the whole Establishment in both parties in US politics, waiting with open arms (and open borders) to let them in. It's all connected.

In the case of Libya, now the "World's Largest Open Air Slave Market!" the bitch laughed about it on dateline.

I didn't know you could sustain the infinite growth of capitalism on a finite planet with finite resources.

Why do you think they want to go to space. To see the pretty lights? We get to the point of mining in space and infinite growth is possible

You can't. It's like cancer. Cancer wants to grow and fester as big as possible. Cancer doesn't care if it kills the host, that's not the point, at least it spread as much as it could first. Until the concept of infinite growth is rejected for sustainability, we have a serious problem.

You can't, but you might be able to push it out at least until the current people in power die.

You can, with derivatives. Hedging wealth on poor performance is a thing. Futures and options are a thing. Fuck, you can even trade currency for the amount of inches of rain there will be. You know what there is an infinite amount of? Randomness. Unless we prove that randomness is somehow finite, then yes, there is infinite growth of capitalism... Food shortage? Let me just short agriculture futures and make a boat load of money, then invest some of it into solving the problem then hedge that on another future, while investing the rest into the supporting technologies to ride the hype train once the news gets out... repeat ad nauseam.

You can't. Doesn't mean they aren't going to try though. They seemingly can't resist.

Delusion in it's most wall of text form.

What's truly delusional is the arrogance in thinking you can't possibly be wrong in your world view or ideology.

This needs a TL:dr.

Im not reading a downvoted text wall.

damn dude. a thousand times this.

wish there was a way to actually fight the movement.

This entire post is a monument to Russian intervention in our political process.

"Everyone I don't like is Russian Bots"

The Redditor's guide to political discourse.

We "the greatest nation on earth" (unless you look at true metrics) have failed. We have children going to bed hungry. People live under bridges and in cars in some of the most successful areas of the country. Health care coverage is nearly unaffordable if you get any real value out of the policy. While all this happens we can cut taxes for corporations and the rich then give them enough loopholes that they pay no taxes. We can spend 54 percent of our budget on waging war. Well, 54% that isn't black budget. Capitalism has failed art everything but driving more and more money into the hands of oligarchs who use their gains to buy their very own legislators. Failed country, failed economic plan. The country won't last another century if we continue on our present course. Capitalism has run it's course and shown itself to be a Trojan horse.

Agree with everything in this comment.

I am also from CA, and I have seen our culture completely fall away and turn into nondescript consumer culture, and ethnically isolated neighborhoods that are clearly one race or another, with even billboards being in Spanish, etc.

Migration is almost always a major factor in what destroys a culture. Here is a list of mass migrations, where the migrants never assimilated into the host territory, eventually collapsing the host:

Quick account of groups never assimilating (not a comprehensive list)

Sea Peoples around Mediterranean (specifically Egypt) 2,000 bc. (little known fact, but the swarm migration of the Sea Peoples is actually what ended Ancient Egypt, and even collapsed Classical Greece)

Germans tribes in Roman Empire

Jews in Europe

Arabs who moved outside of Saudi Arabia to Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Libya

British in Australia

Chinese in Singapore

Germans who moved to Russia and lived there for 200 years (they moved back to Germany in 1917)

Whites in North America (meaning that we never assimilated to the Native Americans and completely destroyed their culture and their way of life, this is one of the perfect examples of what happens to a native host people if they let unfettered mass immigration come into their territory)

Anglo-saxons who moved to England in 6th ad.

Blacks in America (not meaning that they aren't integrated, but meaning that they still see themselves as Black, and probably always will. They haven't truly assimilated into the American fabric, they remain distinct. And I believe that there's no real way around that.)

Lastly, saying that Whiteness is socially constructed means that you are internalized a lot of bogus propaganda. Do you also believe that the category of "East Asian" is a social construct? Do you believe that "Sub-Saharan African" is a social construct? If you do... I'm not sure what to say. But "White European" is no different. This is a biological categorization. Think of the difference between Asiatic Lions and African Lions. Think of the difference between Polar Bears, Grizzly Bears, and Black Bears. These differences are social constructs, they are biological realities. White European people are biologically and genetically different than for example, East Asian people, or Sub-Saharan African people. This is a fact.

The truth is that your biological kind, your species and race, along with your birth sex, are the only things in this WHOLE WORLD, that are NOT social constructs. These are hardwired, biological realities. It is your moral stance on these obvious and probable truths, your feelings of right and wrong about these facts, that are the social construct.

Uhh you just generalized the entire dright

We are all brothers and sisters united in our struggle to simply make it... while the rich look down from their ivory tower and laugh when we fight eachother...

Posted this image of system failure from the TV show Lost the other day in a different thread. If anyone remembers that screen flashed on the computer because they forgot to press the button in the hatch (which needed to be pressed every 108 seconds.)

The button though is great analogy for beliefs though. The button could represent any belief - but the overriding one we've chosen to make our society "tick" is the punishment button.

I can’t find the interview clip, but Steven Spielberg talking about A Clockwork Orange, and commenting there’s no doubt in his mind if we follow Alex after the movie is over, the “rehabilitation” program not only failed to make Alex better – but only served to turn him into a bigger monster. (The first thing he’s going to do is probably kill his parents, friends, etc)

Posted this image of system failure from the TV show Lost the other day in a different thread. If anyone remembers that screen flashed on the computer because they forgot to press the button in the hatch (which needed to be pressed every 108 seconds.) I think the button is great analogy for beliefs though. The button could represent any belief, but the overriding one we've chosen to make our society "tick" is the punishment button.

I can’t find the interview clip, but Steven Spielberg talking about A Clockwork Orange, and commenting there’s no doubt in his mind if we follow Alex after the movie is over, the “rehabilitation” program not only failed to make Alex better – but only served to turn him into a bigger monster. (The first thing he’s going to do is probably kill his parents, friends, etc)

These are the people who say stuff like, “The worst thing you can do to help someone is say the words good job”. They don’t believe in rewards. The button can only represent the belief of punishment. Look what it did for them. They turned out ‘perfectly fine’, because someone rode, and pushed, and whipped them to “success”.

What they fail to realize is you’re not them. They might enjoy masochism, but not everyone does (Hey there narcissists!) The problem is of course, we’re not given a chance to breathe and figure out what this best way for us to get around is. Because before we have a chance to catch our breath – one of those people with the whip is coming at us.

So, it’s immediately into a defensive posture. Leading to circular logic. Look it’s working! We beat people (press the punishment button) and the world doesn’t fall apart. Yeah, well, we never bothered to see what would happen if you stopped pressing the stupid button (or pressed a different button like “reward” instead of punishment).

Anyways, that was a lot of words to say what was summed up with “system failure”. People aren’t the problem. It’s a system that punishes people and then expects joy. We need a different “button” or belief. In other words – I don’t have a problem with you – I have a problem with your methods.

Make love, not war. Solutions not problems. It’s hard being the shepherd though when you’re a bad mother (and you can punish others). Just because you can doesn’t mean you should though. We all have names.

Not that Spielberg doesn't get to have an opinion, but ACO is a Kubrick film.

I know it's not the movie, but if you read the book Alex chooses to be good in the last chapter.

He had a plan.. As a continuation of this idea of minimizing or just forgetting about problems instead of escalating - I'm putting together a reel of different clips of Walter White on Breaking Bad doing the 'nonsense' gesture with his hands. So, if anyone wants to send episode markers my way I'd appreciate it.

Wow, well said and well thought out. I read a similar comment about moderates from both sides of the "fence" being set against one another. The increasing regularity of otherwise good, decent people being pushed and angered to the point of a violent reaction, not against the true instigators (on both sides) of this hatred, but against each other.

I really need to take some time to consider my own feelings over the last couple of years. To think about how neatly I have fallen into wanting to punish the rise in civil injustice recently, but instead of rallying together against the soiled roots, I just wanted to crush the fruits underfoot.

Thank you, sincerely.

They eat the sandwich we made while watching us fight over who deserves the crumbs

That, my friend, is a great analogy.

https://i.imgur.com/C78RK9P.mp4

if you believe that "class struggle" isn't just also part of a fabricated culture war

it's the oldest form of identity politics, and it didn't end well under uncle Joe

You just reminded me of this song.

united in our struggle to simply make it...

There is very little struggle. It's much easier to survive as opposed to a few hundred years ago. Depression and suicide rates skyrocketing isn't a coincidence. We were designed/made/evolved to endure hardship, and there isn't much of any in America any longer.

You're not following me. In the ancient sense of the word, hardship is freezing, starving, being eaten. This is what humans were made/designed/evolved for. Not bagging groceries to make rent payments.

We've come so far as a species

This would be the only thing that I would disagree with.

You are objectively wrong?

Antifa are self-avowed communists and thus do not deserve any human rights protection. They will never and have never afforded it to anyone outside of their group.

are they even still a thing?

They're funded and propped up by the media. Even Vox defends them and supports their terrorism.

huh.. Guess I don't watch enough TV.

You don't read enough.

like I said, I didn't know they were still a thing. In fact, I kinda thought they were just another divisive bogyman. Invented to make Team Red throw shade at Team Blue to start the kind of fights that this whole thread is about. But thanks for being so informative on the subject.

I can't tell if you're being dismissive on purpose.

But just in case:

https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html?utm_term=.ff1833d58fa9

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/antifa-domestic-terrorists-us-security-agencies-homeland-security-fbi-a7927881.html

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-19/german-antifa-group-posts-revenge-hit-list-54-police-officers

http://www.newsweek.com/antifa-neo-nazis-charlottesville2018-unite-right-rally-727791

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/01/antifa-not-fighting-freedom-communist-revolution/

They will be back as soon as it warms up outside.

Only antifa is considered terrorists. Killing communists is just pest removal.

No, it's from Dune.

Great post thank you.

Odd how you attack one side and tell the other how that same side is just confused.

From an objective view, I read it as neutral.

Its scary how people cant even detect their own bias disposition.

Ever think that he has seen posts like yours calling one side out over the other, and here he is saying to knock it off? Put yourself outside the situation. Dont you see any reasoning point that makes sense? I sure do.

from an objective view

lmfao fuck off dude you’re not more “objective” than any other individual on this sub

You are right. I must not be because I looked at this post and all I could think of was...

Both sides are wrong. Who cares?

Actually people can have different levels of objectivity. Do you consider yourself capable at considering multiple sides of arguments?

objectively you can’t decide you are more objective than any other person which is what OP was saying

One can be aware of their bias.

This was not neutral at all. He says, "Hey, folks on the Right, your news lies, but CNN never lies." That's clearly partisan bullshit. CNN and other mainstream "news" sources are very obviously pushing narrative over news. CNN has had to issue multiple retractions for false reports that weren't adequately vetted because they pushed the desired narrative.

I quote "CNN and the like will bend the truth, word things dishonestly and selectively omit facts." Their showing the shit with CNN and Fox.

"CNN will bend the truth and Fox straight up lies" is kind of a crock of shit comparison. Both outlets will straight up lie with clickbaity headlines. OP clearly demonstrated his own biases by saying CNN can be bad but Fox is always worse.

All the MSM outlets lie. They all pander to a particular audience. No one is going to dispute that Fox News panders and has click bait headlines that appeal to right leaning individuals.

The difference is its the ONLY right leaning MSM station. All these other MSMs have blatant bias toward left leaning news stories and click bait headlines.

I agree with you. OP clearly thinks Fox news is worse because of where he/she stands politically. In reality they are both guilty of different flavors of misleading the public.

Pre and post election I was a Fox News junkie. It was the only channel I watched and it used to get me so upset watching the headlines every night. It definitely deepened me into a tribal mentality.

Cutting the cable box was one of the best decisions I made in a while (especially $ wise).

Yeah I haven't had cable for years. Basically pay a premium to watch advertisements and voluntarily brainwashing. I've seen it happen to good people. The only way to prevent something from manipulating you is to not watch it at all.

CNN, NBC, whatever aren't left leaning and that's kinda what OP is trying to knock into your head. they are as leftist as Hillary, which is to say, not at all on the grand scale of things.

I never said Fox wasn't bad. Just don't like people prescribing to a different flavor of bullshit to be hypocritical in thinking their bullshit is better or more sophisticated than the other because it conforms to some of their biases.

It's not even a little bit neutral. He makes a call for people on the right to understand the positions of communists and such, while making no such request of those on the left. He does almost the opposite of being neutral. He's fully on board with the "People on the right are just stupid and misinformed." talk. It's insane anyone could read this as neutral.

Communists and anarchists have actual reasoned, logical positions and numerous literary works to back then up. The biggest right wing anti establishment movement in the US are the libertarians, who are basically anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalism is pretty much a bastardization of the original individualist anarchists i.e. Josiah Warren, Pierre Joseph Proudhon, etc., edited to conveniently serve capitalists.

The more I learn about their form of anarchism the more I see how bits and pieces have been left out of modern libertarianism to serve the elites.

From the perspective of "the oligarchs are the enemy" tentatively suggesting you read about these alternative ideologies is about as neutral as you can get. Neutrality doesn't mean supporting every ideology equally when some of those ideologies support the very oligarchy you're against.

P.s. Essay on State Socialism vs Anarchism for anyone interested in learning. Anyone reading that essay to its conclusion will see a LOT of similarities between the anarchists and modern posters here (money monopoly sure sounds like "end the Fed").

You responded to the wrong post.

No, I didn't. I explained how OP's post is still about as "neutral" as can be while positioning himself against the oligarchy. There is no real right wing ideology that stands against capitalism. American libertarianism just serves corporate interests. If you read the essay I linked you might notice the similarities between this Libertarianism and actual libertarian anarchism. You might notice that they differ in areas which benefit the elite.

The anarchist ideology expressed in the essay I linked is essentially what the right wing should be but isn't because by and large right wing ideology has become inseparable from capitalism (in the United States).

This whole discussion plays into right-left division anyway, when the point is that you should look into these ideas and learn rather than have this exact sort of knee jerk reaction when you perceive a slight against "your side"

Then you have almost no understanding of right wing politics. You should look into it some.

You could always try making an argument, but I guess that would require you to understand what I'm saying first.

I understand that you have no idea what right wing politics are.

I do see what you see but I also see the slant subtly placed in the post and you could as well.

Came here to say the same thing.

OP is a fucking shit stirring commy. He’s just retaliating to an earlier post that had everyone agreeing we should drop the politics and get back to our roots. This entire post was designed to create infighting not stop it.

I agree everyone is stupid we are following the Romans.

With a forever increasing government size and taxation. A paid military fighting wars all over the world.

I was thinking we were splitting down the middle and losing something to connect over.

It's the craziest thing ever. It's like college football but with guns.

My best friend of over 30 years is very Liberal. He, his wife, and his kids marched in the Women's Right's parade today in Hicag. They have framed photos of MLK marching through Detroit in their house. They even went so far as to find out their son's schools policy on Transgender students before he (their son) started kindergarten. He believes that the second amendment should be abolished. And so on.

They are the most liberal people you will ever meet.

Me on the other hand? Not so much. I have guns, a truck, and vote Libertarian. I own a business and am against minimum wage and regulations. I think that PC/SJW culture is going to be the end of us all, don't bake the cake if you don't want to, and if you have a penis dangling between your legs use the fucking men's bathroom, and so on.

I'm the biggest ass-hole redneck you will ever meet.

But we are best friends. For over 30 years. We will do anything for each-other. I could write a novel about all the nice things we and our families have done for each-other over the last few decades.

People can be different and still care about each-other.

So I agree 100%. This division is not "real" in any way. Someone or some entity is actively attempting to separate us based on very simple personal preferences.

Live your life as you see fit, focus your energy where you believe it's best used and most needed, and everyone should watch The Fox and the Hound one more time.

I teared up a little at fox and the hound, which is weird.. I'm macho as fuck.

If you don't tear up at a fox and the hound mention, you're basically dead inside.

This. People need to understand that not everyone is the same

And that it's a good thing, we have different blind angles on different sides of the political spectrum. All we need is a smidge of common fucking decency, whenever one side gains enough influence to silence the other it turns to genocide...

That FOX AND THE HOUND part. You speak da tru tru.

Minimum wage is just another way of saying "if I could pay you less I would".

So that says something about you.

Preempting it with “I’m a business owner” like it justifies the latter I thought he was trolling at first

If he’s a business owner that can currently afford 3 employees to do a very simple job (theoretically), and minimum wage makes it so that he can only employ 2 people to do this very simple job at a now overpaid rate, is this good for anyone involved? Just playing devil’s advocate here

Why do you need three people to do a very simple job?

If you want to be a business owner and can’t do it on your own, but can’t afford to pay your employees minimum wage, then your business is failing. If you are taking home more than $70,000 from your business but can’t be assed to pay someone $15,000 to do your bullshit, something is wrong.

Have you owned a business before?

A business owner may work 100 hours a week and still not be able to keep employees on the books. That doesn't mean the business is failing, it means it's a small business and with higher minimum wages there will only be less small businesses in the world. Meaning the only jobs out there will be big business chains and franchises.

If you are working 2x-3x the hours of full time employment and are not able to keep employees, your business is failing.

Higher minimum wages directly translate to a growing local economy.

So yes, if you aren't getting a slice of the increased dollars circulating in your local economy your business is failing or at least not growing. Which if you're a business owner is just the same as failing.

If a business owner can’t afford to pay the needed employees to do the jobs required by the business then its failing. The business owner needs to figure out a more economical production method or raise their prices. If they don’t it will fail and it will not be the employees fault. The business owner is responsible for choosing the right business to start from the beginning and then acquiring the clients/sales to support that business model.

What makes you think you know what's best for that business owner? How about we let them make their own decisions and if you don't like it don't do business with them.

first of all, cutting 15,000 from your income of 70,000 is a huge chunk and could potentially make the business not worth the time as has been pointed out here. Do workers not have the option to not accept the job? No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and saying they have to work at this business. If the wage offered isn't enough, then people won't work there. If the job takes no skill, no effort, no education, and allows for benefits in scheduling, why should that job be the same price as a more demanding position elsewhere?

Everyone seems to have this idea here of all businesspeople being greedy robber barons in million dollar estates, but in reality for most it's just another job. I feel like there's this attitude here that if an employee struggles it's a tragedy, but if a business struggles it's almost like they deserve it. Sometimes it can take years to be profitable, and it's a huge risk. I'm not arguing in favor of mcdonald's here, I'm talking about a small business.

In what world would an employee doing basic manual labor be paid the same as the person that took all the financial risk and put in most likely the most time? An economy with any upward mobility can't thrive in that environment.

Aaaaand it's shit like this that convinces me that at least half the population on this planet are at least borderline narcissistic and lack any empathy. (I'm not saying you in particular do; it's a collective thing.)

1) You have a "very simple" job that you need to have done. In your eyes, this job is not worth very much pay whatsoever, because it's so basic.

2) You have a worker that you assign to this job. You want to pay him very very little.

3) That worker, however, is still a human being. It doesn't matter how little value you place on the work they're doing, they still need to be able to have food, shelter, and preferably some form of fulfillment.

4) Minimum wage, for a full-time worker is almost $10,000 below the poverty line. In most cities, it's below a living wage. People already have to work multiple jobs to stay afloat - paying less than that will literally work them to death. There are only so many hours available to work in a day.

5) If you're a business owner, and you have a job so trivial that you can't be bothered to pay a worker for it, then you're a bad businessman. Either add more responsibilities to the job so it holds more value in your eyes, or automate it. You can make profit without being the asshole who sees his workers as disposable costs, not as humans.

It's the ultimate failure of capitalism. A free market does not protect against people breaking things to get a quick payout. Yeah, you will make more money in the long run if your business is successful, but look at the confidence man in charge of our government. He's made billions by not honoring his contacts and gutting out businesses/investors.

Re number 4. Since the full-time minimum wage is below the poverty line, that employee then likely qualifies for federal benefits like food or housing assistance. At that point, the state is subsidizing the business by covering the cost of their low wages.

Look at the fast food chain In-N-Out. They pay their employees well above minimum wage, provide other benefits, and try their best to retain workers and build loyalty. Because of this, they're known for having amazing customer service, and good food.

Try starting a fast food business now and see if you can pay your employees anything substantial.

Liberals argue about higher minimum wages, but then yell and corporations for being too big and evil. Even though higher wages only serves to squash small businesses. I really don't get it.

1) Your point is tangential. I wasn't talking about a brand new fast food restaurant, I was making a comparison between two established ones.

2) I wasn't yelling at corporations for being evil, I was saying that a large number of them are being stupid and causing self-harm and instability in the name of short term profits.

3) I've helped out a number of friends and family members who started businesses. Some of them food-related, some of them not.

Higher wages don't squash small businesses. Do you know what does stop a new business before it can get off the ground?

Incompetent ownership. An owner who believes that they're a "businessman" now, and so should be raking in the dough... And so keeps the profits instead of turning around and putting them back into the business.

If you think your business is failing because of the cost of labor, then you have a lot more problems on your hands than the minimum wage.

4) And you've conveniently managed to ignore the entire point of my post: it's not just about your wallet growing fatter, and you can't simply treat workers like a cost - they're people. Treat them well, and they will treat you well. (That applies to small businesses, as well. Your workers are going to go well above and beyond for you if they feel respected and part of the team, rather than feeling like their job is just something they show up for so they can pay rent.)

It's just more of the victim mentality. It's everyone's fault but their own.

I don't know why /u/erietemperance even brings up the minimum wage because there are plenty of ways that businesses from huge corporations to small business already pay workers both less than minimum wage and less than what they even deserve.

Unpaid internships, monthly stipend internships, 1099'ing instead of hiring employees, outsourcing overseas to country with no min. wage and lower cost of living (ie, India and Pakistan for coding and places like Mexico and Phillipines for call centers, etc), paying under the table for illegal immigrants, etc.

Then lets look at wage theft and how much employers already steal free labor from employees https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg

So any employer whining about the minimum wage is either dishonest or just a worse businessman than all the others that have plenty of work-arounds to squeeze more blood out of their employees.

I never said pay as little as possible. There's something called benefit-cost ratio. If a job costs more than it's benefit, it will cease to exist. At a price as high as double what it is now, you can kiss between 25-50% of jobs goodbye. They just aren't demanding enough to warrant that pay. It's not a small business owner's fault that our government doesn't provide single payer healthcare. It's not their fault that people have no financial education of any form, and they aren't learning skills that have value in the new marketplace. And it's not their fault that automated workforces are already becoming cheaper than human labor. People laugh at the coal miners and cab drivers that are upset with market innovations, but forget that when jobs like checkout person become obsolete. You will destroy these jobs by raising the minimum wage, flat out.

I'm not sure where you're pulling double from. Just what it would take to get it out of poverty range? If so, that's fair.

I have absolutely no argument with what you just said. You're correct, it would cause jobs to either require more skill, or replace them with automation. From my first post:

Either add more responsibilities to the job so it holds more value in your eyes, or automate it.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. The current trend of "brainless" labor, where workers are paid very little to do one single task over and over, is unsustainable.

It worked just fine during the industrial revolution, when society was moving too fast to care about the labor, and factory jobs couldn't yet be replaced.

As we've moved out of that era, however, the mentality has invaded schools, service jobs, and hell, even politics. But it's not tenable.

What if - just what if - we instituted a universal basic income (or even just basic housing and a minimal allowance), and healthcare. Combine that with a higher minimum wage and progresses in automation.

Obviously that's not going to happen overnight, but look at the end result:

• those in poverty no longer have to work multiple soul-crushing jobs to stay above water, and can instead focus on learning new skills / bettering themselves. (Not all of them will, but the ones who would could actually have an opportunity to.)

• The jobs that are less would require common sense, productivity, and more skill... But would be consequently rewarding, and would allow even a "basic" job to elevate one's quality of life.

• For those who can hack it, there would be more openings in the technology corridor. Or they could try and write the next American novel, or hell, try and live-stream their way to fame.

• For the small business owner, taking this philosophy means you have more competent workers who you can put more trust in - they're less likely to completely screw everything up. You get a more reliable workforce, they're happier with their lives, and the customers receive better service.

So... I fully acknowledge that things aren't going to work out that way, and it would take some dramatic changes in our society for it to be possible.

But we both agree on the outcome of such a change, long term. Maybe we disagree on whether that outcome is positive or not; I'm not sure. Personally, I think that it's a change in society that's at least worth trying to do what little things you can to help improve the chances of it coming to light.

If you could at least retract saying half the population is "at minimum borderline narcissistic and lack any empathy" that would be a good start to finding a common point to have an actual discussion. You're talking about people who for the most part are middle class and just trying to make a living, not Jeff Bezos.

I think long term, automation will be a good thing for humanity; but in the interim, it will cause damage to the middle and working class. We're talking about raising the minimum wage TODAY, not in the future where every possible good thing that could happen did already. In this paradigm, raising the minimum wage does little to stem the tide and could actually work to increase the disparity between classes in the short term. The only real beneficiary is large corporations, as small businesses will die before they can afford automation or before the tech develops enough to become affordable.

As for the double figure, Federal minimum wage is currently 7.25 (which is admittedly low). Most propositions I've seen propose an increase to between 15-20 dollars. That's more than double the federal minimum wage. I'd much prefer an increase tethered to inflation. When inflation occurs, minimum wage goes up. That's fair.

You've probably got a point about the current effects of a wage hike. I will say, though, that I've never seen a proposition for a $20 minimum wage. The extreme ones are at $15, and most seem to be about $10.50 or so. (Federal wage; I know there are states that are already there.)

I live in a small city that's got a lot of poverty, and its associated problems. I can say that the idea of a steady job at $15 an hour sounds practically unbelievable. There's a reason that Costco here is one of the most desired places to work at.

Interestingly enough, there are also a couple communities of highly rich families. I made my money as an independent tutor for their children. While they aren't Bezos, by any means, we're still talking two story penthouses and 3 acre waterfront properties. There's a level of... Ignorance? When it comes to the way most people live. Most of them were really good people, though.

If anything, it was the managers and small business owners from the poorer parts of town that were the worst.

I've had friends who were, actually, workers at In-N-Out. (It's why it popped up as my example.) One of them legitimately believes that poor people are in those circumstances purely because of bad decisions and that we shouldn't offer any assistance. The direct quote was something along the lines of, "If they can't pull themselves out of it, they should just have a quiet death."

I've worked for absolutely awful managers. There really are people out there, a lot of them, who legitimately care about nobody but themselves. I also saw a shocking amount of psychopathic tendencies in business majors I shared classes with.

Now... Maybe I'm just "lucky"? Maybe I've interacted with an inordinate number of people who are like that. Most likely I'm also biased, because I watched my father ruin himself and take advantage of everyone around him, due to drugs. I also have extended family who just really shouldn't be trying to run a business, but even outside of them, I've seen a lot of small business owners who really don't give a flying fuck about their employees.

So... I'll retract the, "Half." I'm fairly adamant that a shocking number of people, however, are so self-absorbed that they would have zero qualms about totally screwing over someone else if it were to their benefit.

if it's raised to between 15-20 dollars, it's an overpay for someone to flip burgers or pick berries. At that point, you're encouraging automation, destroying other jobs in the process. No small business owner is going to pay 20 dollars for something a machine can do for 5.

yes, so instead of the lower minimum wage that person gets nothing and the business owner has no incentive to ever hire at any price again.

Definitely, but as of now this is the reality. If you want to do away with capitalism entirely, that's another discussion. In this paradigm, just raising the minimum wage is not going to solve any of the emerging issues of the market space. If anything, it will exacerbate them. You can't put a bandaid on an arterial wound.

Considering every single time the minimum wage has happened the following has happened.

1. People making minimum wage spend 100% of their income. With most of that going into the local economy.

2. They continue to spend 100% of their income only now they can do things like go out and buy something extra at a small locally owned business s or go out to eat once a month at a small locally owned restaurant.

3. This causes an increase in income for the small business owner. Now they have to hire additional staff to deal with the additional demand

So yeah. I call bs.

The minimum wage has been increased how many times? (This is for you to go research and learn. It's super easy to find)

And our economy has always continued to grow.

Then his business model sucks.

Businesses only hire employees out of need.

If you need employees but can’t afford them, it’s a failure on your part as the owner.

Perhaps you needed to raise prices, lower other costs etc.

This is why income inequality is bad for even the rich - eventually nobody can afford to buy your shit

so driving employers to retain fewer employees somehow helps the working class? Maybe at a lower price, a business owner can afford a third to make the work less strenuous and more efficient. There are a million reasons why, if it can be afforded, a business owner might hire more than they need. Maybe they'd prefer to not work 175% the amount their employees do for 125% of the profit, especially when they've taken the entirety of the financial risk.

so driving employers to retain fewer employees somehow helps the working class?

In my honest opinion, I'd love to see us get to a point where we don't equate one's worth with what they do each week to provide food, but that's a little pie in the sky.

I would ask you, how does pushing wages lower help the working class?

Maybe at a lower price, a business owner can afford a third to make the work less strenuous and more efficient

You realize that when folks work jobs that don't pay their bills, taxpayers like you and me (presumably) pay for it in forms of welfare and so forth.

Why should we subsidize a shitty business model?

If your business can't afford employees then you need to work on some other aspect of the business.

There are a million reasons why, if it can be afforded, a business owner might hire more than they need

Not.

Just look at the layoffs that multi-billion dollar companies complete every year -- they can absolutely afford those employees but because they do not need them they let them go.

There are some instances, family owned businesses etc where one might find a business employing more than they need, but they are more than likely struggling or their balance is suffering because of it; however if we extrapolate that to the market as a whole, it does not happen.

Businesses hire people to fill a need. If that need does not exist, they do not hire people.

Small businesses account for 67% net new jobs every year. Corporations may be evil, but laws that make it harder for small businesses to hire new employees will affect the majority of jobs. You have it in your head that only corporations exist to hire, evidenced by your dismissive “in some instances, family owned businesses etc” as if it’s a negligible amount. It is the majority of employers.

You have it in your head that only corporations exist to hire, evidenced by your dismissive “in some instances, family owned businesses etc” as if it’s a negligible amount

No.

You missed my point entirely.

What you saw as a dismissive statement was my acknowledgement that some family owned businesses will put people on the payroll just because -- but that has nothing to do with minimum wage, LOL.

My buddy got paid $600/wk by his family's convenience store when we were in college; even though it was 200 miles away.

The minimum wage laws, or lack thereof, wouldn't impact this type of situation but the norm is that companies only hire when they need to.

I just don't like the whole concept of job creators and how we should just be thankful to have them employ us because it's not a fucking charity - if they didn't expect to make money off of their employees they would not hire them.

I’m not framing it as a charity, or something to be grateful for, I’m framing it as a market. We, the employees, are the product, and the employers are our customers. Making it more difficult to retain employees will affect the job market. That’s it. No morality about it.

As for the situation with your friend, that’s not what I meant. Sometimes a company will hire someone to lessen the workload on other employees, thus increasing efficiency (a perfectly good reason to overhire). Maybe a company hires someone because they believe that with some time in the workplace they may improve and become a more desirable employee under their employ. Like I said, there are many reasons that a business may want to hire an extra pair of hands despite not NEEDING to. It’s not all publicly traded companies laying off employees to increase the bottom line for shareholders.

Sometimes a company will hire someone to lessen the workload on other employees, thus increasing efficiency

I am sorry but that doesn't jive with my experiences -- what you describe is kinda the opposite of what played out during the last recession.

Once companies realized they could operate on a smaller workforce they continued to operate that way...that is why we are just recently getting back down to low unemployment even though business has been booming for 6+ years

Southpark has the best explanation I've ever seen for why we need people on both sides of the spectrum.

Southpark S07E04

I'm old and that (100th episode) is the first episode of South Park I've ever sat through. Loved this subtle jab:

"This country was founded by some of the smartest thinkers the world has ever seen. And they knew one thing...that a truly great country can go to war and at the same time, act like it doesn't want to. You people who want the war, you need the protestors, because they make the country look likes it's made of sane, caring individuals. And you people who are anti-war, you need these flag-wavers because if our whole country was made of soft pussy protestors, we could take 'em down in a second."

How about letting the market decide wages?

That is what gets you kids digging for blood minerals in Africa and picking the coco beans. The market doesn't give a shit about people.

🎻 I’m playing this for you. In America you are worth the value that you provide to a business. Small businesses aren’t charities.

And small businesses don't deserve to survive anywhere if they are unable to pay a living wage.

So you’re saying that you should let the market decide eh? 😉

Yeah a market with a minimum living wage.

No, because for them to fail would require a minimum wage

If your business can't pay minimum wage, you have failed as a business owner.

MBA with an emphasis in entrepreneurial studies, here - this is the correct answer.

So you’re saying to “let the market decide” cool! Thanks for agreeing with me.

Indeed! Where I work and human resources, at a mechanical contracting company, we are hiring people straight out of college at a rate of 65,000 to 75,000. Their degrees are in such things as construction management, project management, Revit/BIM specialists.

We also hire young kids to come into the trees at $14 per hour in the Midwest, plus benefits to learn and earn. They become apprentices for five years running fantastic wages and benefits that I will never see my position as HR manager.

The market is totally driving these wages, and doing a great job of it for the employees and applicants.

You got downvoted like I did because they don’t like the truth.

No. It has been done before and it was fucking shit for a vast majority of workers.

It's already been done and it failed miserably, because markets are neither efficient, rational or fair.

Language.

You gonna back this up with specifics?

There is a level of human need to drive and strive to be better than what we are. We, as a species, have something inside us that not only wants to see people get better, stronger, smarter and achieve more than we, but also a drive in US to be better than we were yesterday.

The lack of responsibility in our young men and women is a huge problem that the liberals don't want to talk about. Getting and maintaining a minimum wage job is nothing to be proud of. And if you are proud of you life for having a minimum wage job, I would question your motives, habbits and level of nihilism.

Raising the minimum wage only hurts peoples motivation and encourages people to be less than what they could be.

You need a ladder to get off that high horse?

That you’re willing to pay the lowest wage that will still cause people to do the job.

I've always thought that it says kind of the same thing as "I'm going to do the smallest amount of work I can get away with for you without getting fired"

Ever think maybe more people would have jobs if there werent a law forcing businesses to pay a minimum amount of money? That maybe the guy not worth $10($15, however much) is out of a job because of it? That workers would be laid off for companies trying to balance their expenses?

I believe pc/sjw culture was actually created by the people in power (corporations and governments)

It was created by commies to try and silence their opponents. Worked pretty good, but then Trump won and it all fell apart

It was! If you follow the money it can be traced back to the Tomodashi/Ford initiative as a way for the Rockefeller's to fund these mandatory academic seminars hosted by Tim Wise about white privilege.

(((Tim Wise)))

Forgive the possibly loaded question please. I'm curious why you say "pay what wages you want", "bake what cakes you want", but then "use the bathroom that I say". What, in your mind, is the difference?

The bathroom issue is a safety concern whereas the cake is just a decision that doesn’t hurt anyone. Trust me, if bakeries stop making cakes for gay people, I will personally start a business to offer them cakes. It is lucrative to serve everyone

Do you think there is a direct link between pedophilia and transgender people? And that that pedophilia wouldn't be otherwise acted upon in the other restroom?

No but I think a pedophile would use the transgender policy as an excuse. Look, if you’re a real transgender, I doubt people would even notice them using it

I think a pedophile would use the policy as an excuse.

Pedophilia is already illegal, inside the bathroom and out.

If you’re a real transgender, I doubt people would even notice them using it

Then it shouldn't be a problem now should it?

I didn’t say it was. That’s why the legislation part is unnecessary

Well, you kinda did by calling it a "safety concern"

I’m just explaining the perception, not taking sides. I don’t really care either way

Ah, ok. Sorry if I got people jumping on you.

All good. Such is life on the internet

You do realize the legislation was to enforce a trans bathroom ban, not the other way around?

Obviously has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the practical logic that if you are a pedophile the ability to dress up as a woman and rape young girls with near impunity is suddenly easy as pie.

Also if your a woman you can take your young boy into the woman’s bathroom you can’t be a man taking your young girl into the girls bathroom so now you have to send her in alone and some crazy rapist can just throw on some lipstick and come in freely.

It’s just fing basic situational logic.

Username does not check out.

Find a reason logically why this law does not make things super easy for rapists.

You want to tell a child who does get raped because of this that their rape is worth it for more transgenders to be comfortable?

Your that confident that no one ever will abuse this and rape a young girl?

You think it’s worth it for the greater good.

You couldn’t possibly be stupid enough to not see the logic.

You just think that however many little girls get raped it’s worth it for the progressive religion to culminate in perfect equality and social justice.

What you fail to realize is eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns in everything in life where the price you have to pay for marginal gains is way steeper than the actual value of the gains.

Find a reason logically why this law does not make things super easy for rapists.

The idea that bathroom laws are the reason more rape hasn’t been committed is the most obnoxiously childish and retardedly simplistic notion coming out of this whole debate. With your “logic”, you’re implying that the current laws make it super easy for men to rape boys in bathrooms as it is now. Why are you ok with men raping boys? What’s wrong with you, dude???

Furthermore there’s another logical inconsistency in this whole argument.

If bathrooms don’t matter so much, then why the hell to transgenders even care about what bathroom they use? Why would we even propose the idea of jeaporizing anyone safety even theoretically to make someone more comfortable with a bathroom if in the first place it’s not supposed to matter.

So a transgender gets uncomfortable using the bathroom of their original sex.

So what if a non transgender person gets uncomfortable with them using their bathroom.

Why does the transgender persons uncomfortableness trump the other persons if the issues supposedly doesn’t matter in the first place and people are just “making a big deal out of nothing”.

The left has lost the ability to understand that equality means everyone has the right to feel uncomfortable.

You don’t get to put yourself higher on a hierarchy where you say it’s not allowed that I feel uncomfortable we must legislate my discomfort away because I am higher on a hierarchy of oppression.

That’s not equality.

Thats a state mandated social hierarchy.

I’m glad you’re doing this because at best, you’re simply and stupidly regurgitating the same talking points that bigots in the south used to keep bathrooms segregated. At worst, you’re well aware of that fact before you started commenting.

In a big city there is a big enough market for someone to start a gay bakery. However, everywhere else there is not. So if you are outside of a big city and gay you will be out of luck.

How do you propose libertarianism will solve that?

With the fact that most people aren’t anti gay and you can find multiple bakeries in every area.

Also in the bible belt? are you really sure?

Do you think there will be bakeries in all areas (say within 30km radius) of Alabama that will make gay cakes?

Yeah, I believe so. I'm from Mississippi and have been to Alabama plenty of times. But why only a 18 mile radius? When I got my wedding cake I had to drive almost an hour for the bakery my wife wanted.

Plenty of people in the Bible belt that believe in profits over silly things like morals.

Sure, but making gay cakes can easily hurt profits because most of the other customers will then go elsewhere and there aren't enough market for just making gay cakes.

Wanna know how I know you've never been to a rural area?

Wanna know how I've lived in south and central Mississippi all of my life?

The same way I solved the issue of wanting to reach a wider market with my jewelry business I do on the side.

Create a website and ship things.

You can't really ship cakes long distance...

There are about 1500 violent attacks on LGBT people every year. There are zero reported cases of attacks by trans people in bathrooms.

I can't advise you on the issue of rights vs safety, but if you are worried about safety issues you have to go by the one that actually exists in reality.

The bathroom thing is about safety though, the safety of trans people just trying to fucking pee. I feel like people ignore how many issue it would create for a fully transitioned female to male person to use the women's restroom, or how dangerous it is for a male to female to use the men's room.

First off it’s already happened in a reportable case where the person got caught in most cases they won’t get caught and it still has not become accepted in society so there’s still plenty of scrutiny. Once that goes away, you will see it become a favorite method for rapists. It’s literally here you go rapists of young girls we just made it simple for you. No more snooping around parks looking creepy throw on a dress and some makeup and you can just go right in the locker room/bathroom and practically get high fives on your way to go look for someone to rape.

https://illinoisfamily.org/homosexuality/a-rape-survivor-speaks-out-about-transgender-bathrooms/

“Don’t they know anything about predators? Don’t they know the numbers? That out of every 100 rapes, only two rapists will spend so much as single day in jail while the other 98 walk free and hang out in our midst? Don’t they know that predators are known to intentionally seek out places where many of their preferred targets gather in groups? That perpetrators are addicts so committed to their fantasies they’ll stop at nothing to achieve them?

Do they know that more than 99 percent of single-victim incidents are committed by males? That they are experts in rationalization who minimize their number of victims? Don’t they know that insurance companies highlight locker rooms as a high-risk area for abuse that should be carefully monitored and protected?

Don’t they know that one out of every four little girls will be sexually abused during childhood, and that’s without giving predators free access to them while they shower? Don’t they know that, for women who have experienced sexual trauma, finding the courage to use a locker room at all is a freaking badge of honor? That many of these women view life through a kaleidoscope of shame and suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, dissociation, poor body image, eating disorders, drug and alcohol abuse, difficulty with intimacy, and worse?”

Wouldn't it make more sense to ban all born men from either bathroom? If not why are you so okay with male-on-boy pedophilia? Something you're not telling us?

Lol. What? First off a man can take his son into a male bathroom and protect him whereas a woman can take her daughter into a woman’s bathroom and most likely be unable too.

Also, as a man your not gonna want to take your young daughter into a male bathroom and you can’t take her into the female bathroom.

So here’s the safest most viable solution.

Tell transgenders to suck it up and use the bathroom of their original sex.

Oh well. It’s not a big deal, right? Bathrooms.

So use the damn bathroom of your original sex so little fing girls can feel safe.

Oh no I had to step out of my gender role in some totally insignificant and purely symbolic way! Unless all of society acknowledges me as this sex I will be totally devastated!

When did society get more concerned about how perfectly comfortable someone feels they and everyone else must be with their sexuality then the safety of woman and children

We are literally putting person feelings of groups that may be considered marginalized over actual safety. Well I don’t want to be racist so let me walk through this group of 7 Hispanic gangsters rather than crossing the street. See how that goes for you.

Well harvey Weinstein donates to progressive causes and hangs with Hillary clinton so I’m going to ignore the fact that he literally rapes woman routinely and it’s not just a rumor it’s literally like a known fact everyone is 100 percent certain of but it’s okay because hey he’s helping out the cause.

The greater good, right?

If girls can't protect themselves without a man, then as a man shouldn't I be allowed in the women's room to protect my family?

You should as a man be allowed to keep other men from being able to get into the woman’s bathroom.

The only reason we haven’t already seen horrible consequences from the transgender bathroom law is that it mostly applied to places where lots of authorities are present which are not great targets for rapists such as schools government buildings etc.

Your not going to go rape someone in the White House.

Actually it's been fully legal for trans men to use the women's bathroom in every state since always. It's only ever been briefly illegal in North Carolina.

What if a woman brings a gun into the bathroom? Am I allowed to stop that in the name of safety? Remember, your standard is that a single recorded incident, or even the mere plausibility, is enough for a sweeping ban. What say you?

Yeah, this is funny to me too.

I consider myself libertarian, but mostly focused on the social side.

So bake the cakes you want, use whatever drugs you want, decorate your law however, use any bathroom you want, marry whoever, be whatever you want.

Just don’t hurt others in ways they are entitled not to be hurt in.

In my mind, someone getting offended at a man in a woman’s restroom is the same as someone getting offended at me parking in the public street parking right in front of their house. Understandable, but wrong.

For what it’s worth I have employees I pay above market rates to as well. Even then it feels kinda low to me, but there’s only so high I can go before it’s unprofitable

I generally agree with your statements.

I am a libertarian. I vote against the party that did the Patriot Act, against the party that crushed collective bargaining, against the party that prevailed on Citizens United, against the party that denies my right to unpoisoned air and water, against the party that won't protect my right to the health care I've worked tens of thousands of hours to earn, should I ever get too sick to work.

You probably have a different word for me, but I'm a libertarian.

Sounds libertarian enough to me.

One of my pet peeves is how the more niche political ideologies have to be so precisely defined in the eyes of most people, yet the mainstream movements can be so many different things.

For example, the Republican party includes deficit hawks and corporate welfare junkies. It includes pro-life and pro-family-planning groups. It includes rednecks and free-market economists. Yet they can all identify as Republican, thinking that words means very different things.

Yet if I say libertarian and disagree on say one point, like maybe I'm more of an environmentalist, then nope, I'm not a libertarian, go find another ideology? Screw that.

You will never find a room with more disagreement than a room full of liberals/libertarians(see we can't even fucking agree on that :P)

an Example from my own country Denmark, where we have 4 Liberal parties - we don't use the liberal/libertarian distinction here, as the nanny-state is better represented by the Social Democrats.

The original "Left" party, which is a Liberal Farmers party, and forms the bulk of the right-wing coalition government(our current PM is from there).

The Radical Left party, which split from the left party around a 100 years ago, an forms the centre-left liberal bulk, of the usually Social Democratic governments.

The Liberal Alliance, which split from the Radical Left, the Left, and conservative party, and is also in our current government. The closest to a libertarian party we have here in Denmark. Currently in government as well.

And lastly the Alternative, which also split from the radical left, and is some kind of green/socially liberal amalgam - I have a hard time describing them, but they're definitely somewhere on the wacky leftie spectrum.

So we have 4 parties who claim to some extend that they're liberal, a far-right, centre-right, centre-left and far-left.

But hey as long as we can agree that top down authoritarian rule is bad, and that capitalism generally gets things done in the most efficient way, even though there is a serious but mitigable downside, we can get a long just fine(ish).

Btw the world you're looking for is Liberal, don't cede that word to socialists! It's always pissed me off that Americans call some of the most illiberal people (the PC nutjobs) Liberal.

Why even have separate bathrooms if anyone can use whichever because they feel like it? I feel like the real solution is unisex bathrooms. What difference does it make when all the stalls have doors anyhow?

We can't exactly fight each other if we fix the problems with a sensible solution. Let's just spend a few more years making bathroom laws and screaming at each other over a problem that doesn't really exist.

This shit literally came out of thin air.

Trans people have been around since forever. At least a hell of a lot longer than anyone has ever cared about what bathrooms they use. They did whatever and no one knew anything because we're not all a bunch of weirdos that peek into stalls.

But then out of nowhere this was suddenly an issue.

It was a huge red flag to me and kind of clued me in on controlling narratives.

FWIW I agree. I was jumping on a commenter that was like "hell yeah we should stop fighting each other and be all super chill and libertarian like me. Except for the liberties I don't personally benefit from, fuck those."

Individual bathrooms should just be bathrooms. The whole debate is ludacrious. Now multi-person bathrooms, it’s a bit of an issue, but the binary is convenient. It really doesn’t matter-

I think the difference is this guy got up a couple rungs on the ladder and is now scared others can leapfrog him so he operates from a position of fear.

Perhaps, I think most people in open societies operate on some combination of tolerance and selfishness. The trick is not confusing the two.

No doubt.

I think the US system is fairly unique in that we love to talk about our freedoms but we still retain Puritan style values in some ways, and many see us as a Christian nation, but our politics shows that we worship wealth and power --- which I would argue are not pillars of Jesus' teachings.

I laugh at how the US and Australia differ.

Which one was founded by oppressed Christians and which one was a penal colony again?

Good fucking point.

No thanks. I can't cry that much again. Not again.

People like your bestie have destroyed America.

You are incorrect. The ultra-wealthy stifling wage increases and maximizing executive and shareholder profits for the past 30 years has destroyed America.

Just say Jews.

I don't see how you can say SJW culture will be the end of us all and then go on to agree with the sentiment of this post.

I don't like how a lot of the language policing stuff pans out, I think SJW culture is just as skewed as anti-SJW culture. but like this post insists it's not one or the other. there is a middle ground that takes compromise.

personally I am pro-gun and think all the issues of violence in the US go deeper than gun control advocates think. by the same nature I am pro-trans rights, whatever issue you have with people refusing to go by their birth gender is deeper than you think. realistically people should live their lives how they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the lives of others, and you're not likely to be sure of someone's genitalia when they're pooping in a bathroom stall, so why care?

It's funny bc when I read the description of your friend I implicitly think he sounds like a nice guy and when I read the description of yourself I implicitly think he sounds like a bit of an asshole.

OP is right in that there is no culture war, but some people are definitely more wrong than others. And that wrongness is usually fueled by some innate asshole traits.

stop demonising a third position

Or a 4th. Those not politically affiliated.

Fact is, there is a line down the middle of the room and one way or an other we all have to stand on one side of it. Does the fact that we're not all bunched together on one side make us weaker? I think covering the whole floor makes us stronger.

When the two sides hate each other, it does not make any of us stronger except for the people who drew the line.

I would argue that both the line and your perception of it existing in the middle are illusions.

I have the constant feeling that people who makes these types of posts or comments havent been alive very long. Whats going on right now is a walk in the park compared to what our country has endured in the past. I think we just had a really good 8 years of mostly peaceful times under Obama, and now those that arrived in the political acknowledgement age since then are experiencing political turmoil for the first time and think its armageddon. Settle down kids, this aint shit.

We could well get our shit together and go full star trek, conquer the stars as a functional group within a century

i'm with you except the the timeline. its gonna take more than century to conquer the stars, but i'm so down to get that party started asap.

they'll destroy the planet in half that time and then whatever society that escapes this rock will be even more dark, depraved and corrupt than our ruling class is now. Don't let that happen y'all.

here's what humanity will need to accomplish:

cool the earth directly using by launching 20+ million tons of autonomous refractic screens to the L1 Lagrangian point in space between the earth and the sun

freeze billions of tons of CO2 out of the air in the antarctic, where it's already almost cold enough to do that

Or let a volcano take care of it.

volcano wont cool the earth either the amount or constancy we need

Us vs. them, not you vs. me

Bottom vs top, not left vs right.

Culture war is real and you shills for cultural marxism will fail. Fuck your ideology. The battles are fought every day in media all over the web. You are losing and that's why you are trying to push this nonsense. It will not work.

Yeah except your descriptions for right and left were completely wrong and while you were calling for objectivity, you were not being objective.

I agree the battle isn't just left/right. It is between the people who want to be left alone and the people who will not leave them alone. The meddling people who keep trying to tell everyone else what to do, think, say, and own are primarily on the left with some exceptions on the right also.

That's what is happening. The oligarchs want us to use them to tell others what to do. As long as that bullshit continues, the fighting will increase. There are always busy bodies and theives... Everyone else just wants to be fucking allowed to live as they please.

"to the left: the right are just clueless idiots who think they've made the right choice"

"to the right: the left's media may lie, but your media is worse"

seriously when I read that I made this face irl. yeah "don't make this a reght vs left issue, but I'm biased towards one side" smfh

Exactly. I consider myself libertarian and am considered crazy from both the left and right. I believe that you should be able to freely live and do as you please as long as you aren't infringing on another persons right to do the same. If you aren't harming others then you should be left alone. This means I agree with both gay marriage and the right to bear arms. I believe that if we all quit thinking we need to make/regulate other people to do what we think they should be doing or force them not to do things we don't like we would be a much happier and cooperating society. Yet my position is the mocked and delusional position. Of course we need to do everything we can to force other people to act in a way that pleases us. I don't get this mentality. Live and let live.

It disgusts me to see your post downvoted into the negatives. You hit the nail on the head. Isn't freedom what we should all be striving for?

I think so but these types of posts always get downvoted. I guess people don't really like the idea of letting people live as they please which is hard for me to understand. People only care about the freedoms that are important to them. People they are right and the other person is wrong, that everything they agree with should be legal and everything they don't should be illegal.

I mean dude I agree with most of what your saying, except for the implication that CNN never runs false headlines or even runs less false headlines than fox which is patently false. the association with fox and Breitbart is also disingenuous.

fox being a less credible or reputable source of information than literally any other news source

Fox is worse than no news (though CNN is only barely better than that)

that's just a poll (seen it before btw). public polling data alone is an incredibly unreliable means of representing any meaningful or useful information in the grand scheme of almost anything. especially nowadays since polls like that only survey people who not only own buy actually answer their landline telephones

as a means of gathering this sort of information, those results are completely negligible as are the actual disparities they claim to represent in the first place.

the difference represented by those numbers is based on 4 questions. I'm other words, according to the poll, fox news viewers answered on average 1.06 out of 4 questipms correctly whereas no news viewers answered 1.26 out of 4 questions correctly, with npr at the top striking a "stellar" 1.96 out of 4 questions correctly. even if the results were reliable, the disparities they represent would still be completely negligible.

I gurantee if I dug around enough .edus I could find almost identical polls with almost exactly the opposite results. public polling data by and large is bullshit.

Then do it.

if these results are reliable surely they've been replicated. yeah? or represented in different frameworks? do you love science and shit? go hunt me down some more compelling results, columbo.

Do you have an example of a headline from CNN that is just as false?

how about the story that Trump Jr received the wikileaks cryptokey two weeks before it went public, the story that anything Scaramucci had ties to the kremlin, or the story that james comey would testify that Trump was and had always been under investigation by the fbi in May.

there's three from 2017 alone.

Well, thank you for your input. Someone was able to link to one of those stories, but it was fully retracted and 3 of the CNN employees responsible were fired.

DO you think the difference in response is worth anything?

well nobody provided any evidemce of those false fox headlines. why do you believe that narrative so much more readily? and what makes you think fox never retracs their stories when the reporting is wrong? news flash. they do.

you subconciously stack the deck agsinst fox without even realising it. you see?

I didn't say that Fox News doesn't retract them, I was pointing out the clear and obvious difference in response. Absolutely nothing I have said here should have told you that I believe any 'narrative'.

so why are you pointing out that CNN retracted their stories and fox didn't retract theirs?

I did not say that...

What was your point then?

I was trying to ask about your opinion on the clear differences in response.

I dont understand what the clear difference in response is since we've already clarified that both fox and cnn make corrections when they get the reporting wrong. What clear difference in response are you asking for my opinion on?

Look, man, it's clear you want to argue and ignore things I have said and pretend I am saying things I did not say, and frankly, I'm not into it...

If you want to have a discussion, start over, if not, then go find someone interested in arguing, yeah?

I'm just asking you to clarify the question. I dont understand the question. Can you elaborate please?

I am just looking for a conservative's opinion on the clear and obvious differences between the 2 situations.

Ok and I'm asking what clear and obvious differences are you referring to?

And I am saying that if you have to ask, then this conversation is not one you are capable of having because the differences are obvious and clear. I am not here to educate anybody.

Thats a cop out. You can't even elaborate on what you're asking me. What are you asking me? I'm more than happy to answer your questions and I'm hear to learn just like everyone else. Why can't you elaborate. Why do you refuse to elaborate. I am clay. Why do you refuse to mold me, sensei?

It isn't a cop out, I have had this conversation before...other conservatives ARE able to do what you are clearly incapable of.

I refuse to elaborate because you refuse not to be hostile.

I am not here to argue.

I am not here to educate.

. why are you so adverse to elaboration? just elaborate and I'll answer the question? how hard is that? just elaborate. i am on my knees typing. I'm begging you. please elaborate

I don't need to elaborate, dude...The questions I have asked here couldn't be more clear.

I already told you that if you want, you can start over by addressing my questions here without the attitude.

I am not going to indulge this type of bizarre behavior. You can either address the questions, or don't and get blocked after refusing to do so. If you want to have a conversation, that's how communication is done, not with this weird harassment of yours. Your choice.

dude I am addressing the question by asking you to elaborate so that I may answer it properly.

The left and right wings of our generally unified oligarchy are getting better than ever at splitting us up and convincing us it's red vs blue instead of us against them.

As a non-US resident, I think this is by far the main problem about your system. When one side is proposing a good idea, the other side will do everything they can to fuck it up even if they like the idea because it was proposed by the other side.

As a side note, it seems like the bigger a country gets, the more corrupt it is. My hypothesis is that politicians in those countries are closer to the population but that a whole other debate

Yes, the right/left dialectic is a fraud, but that doesn't make it any less real. As individuals we understand this, but as groups...?

If anyone wants to understand the situation we're in, I'd suggest reading the Lucifer Principle by Howard Bloom.

Once you understand, then you'll see that war between cultures is inevitable. What matters now is who's going to win, so that peace can be restored.

"I've seen the future, and it is murder..."

fuck off.

NY Times admitted breitbart is a reliable news source.

breitbart

Care to source that?

Also really? Fox called Michelle "Obama's baby mama", a fist bump a "terrorist fist jab", said a tan suit as being unprofessional, called him an elitist for using Dijon mustard on a burger, and disrespectful of the presidency for putting his feat on his desk.

I'm not going to say that left media is worse than right leaning media but I will say they are both equally bad and misleading in there own ways. To say CNN can be bad but Fox is way worse does nothing but shows OP is clearly biased.

But fox being worse is a straight up fact.

I think you need to go back a review the difference between facts and opinions. Fox being worse is actually straight up your opinion and demonstrates your bias. Has nothing to do with facts. The fact is CNN lies and misleads and Fox lies and misleads. That is a fact. Saying one lies in a better way than the other is an opinion.

I never claimed cnn didn’t lie and push narratives. Fact is cnn’s narrative is what ever makes them money. Fox has a clear political slant. CNN is not left wing, if they were they wouldn’t have talked about Hillary Clinton’s emails or just show rioters in places like Baltimore when there were far more peaceful people protesting and cleaning up after the idiots

The semantics of where CNN leans politically is not really relevant to the discussion of where they rank on the lie/deception scale. However, I will say that even the government will blow up their own building to make it look like they couldn't have possibly been involved so reporting on certain subjects doesn't prove they lean one way or the other either.

Yeah and fox attacks obama over mustard but almost never attacks trump as a whole. Some anchors will attack him but the ones that would have seen to have left or be leaving. Fox viewers are less informed I think that’s pretty telling they aren’t the same

For the record are you openly biased or do you claim to be somewhat neutral?

Fox viewers are less informed I think that’s pretty telling they aren’t the same

Your bias is showing again.

I am bias but there have been countless studies that show Fox News makes you less informed just stop it

You are in a deep, deep hole my friend

"Countless studies" "Less informed" Less informed about what? What does that even mean? Less informed about what you deem important? How do you even measure that without subjective interpretation of what it is YOU think they should be informed on? Also please provide examples of some of these countless studies.

http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5

From the study which this article is sourcing

“These differences may be small, but even small differences are important when we’re talking about millions of people,” said Cassino. “We expect that watching the news should help people learn, but the most popular of the national media sources –Fox, CNN, MSNBC –seem to be the least informative.”

also

“It is not surprising that most media have little impact on how much people know about the world,” said Cassino. “What is interesting is that when people are exposed to media that cover the world, like NPR, they do pick it up.

You are literally splitting hairs, according to this study you posted, when talking about how "informed" people are with regard to what news channel they watch. People that watch NPR are really the only people that had a statistically significant, if you can even call it that out of 1,000 people surveyed, advantage when it came to the questions they subjectively chose to ask.

Fox is made up of a majority liberal staff.

The way to solve this seemingly endless conundrum if which news outlet is most accurate is simple. Go back to the fairness doctrine so any outlet offering news has to show both viewpoints. No more divisive left/right news. Just news. I for one miss the hell out of Walter Cronkite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj0bwLBckkI

Buddy you're really gonna tell me you don't see the fear campaign of the right telling it's followers that the gays and socialists are coming for everything they love and hold dear?

Do you not see the fear campaign of the left telling its followers that the rednecks and Nazis are coming with their guns to take away gay marriage and the rights of brown people?

I find it interesting that that's your perspective. As someone on the other side politically, I tend to see it the other way around. I see the violence from antifa, terrorists, and illegals as something much more prevalent than the odd white supremacist. The reason I personally find antifa, terrorists, and illegals more of a threat is because it seems to me like those groups have a significant backing/defense from people in our own country, whereas I find most people generally agree white supremacists are jackasses.

I also think your generalization of scared armed, young men becoming violent is perhaps a stereotype. Granted, my experience is anecdotal, but the vast majority of the people I interact with who agree with me politically (Trump supporters mostly but the predominant thing we care about is personal freedom) are pretty diverse in terms of race, gender, and age. And being scared really has nothing to do with it in my personal opinion. Being armed is more about preparedness that things COULD hit the fan, rather than fear that they will. If anything, I see the pushback against Trump and the notion that anyone would be attacking women's rights or gay rights, etc, as fearmongering.

In the spirit of your post, I guess I just find it interesting how so many people live in the same world and yet come to an entirely different conclusion about it. I don't think disagreement is a bad thing; if anything, disagreement is what pushes us forward.

Lol. Okay. So in your opinion, my opinion is in contrast with facts. So much for embracing the opinion of the other side... Nevermind, dude.

So you make a post about how everyone needs to calm down and learn from the other side, extend a hand, etc, and yet you respond to people who disagree with you with "I'm right, you're wrong." Funny. Almost like you posted this in a conspiracy sub to deliberately stir things up.

Gilded, preachy and naive r/conspiracy post. Hilarious!

If anyone wants to live.

Divide and conquer

(D)ivide & Conque(R)

Wish we could get something like this trending than trumpshutdown or schumershutdown bullshit

Is this already a tee-shirt design?

Hegelian's communism

The culture war is real. This class struggle shit you're saying is commie bullshit.

Hit me up when you become a billionaire

I always find it interesting how democratics as liberals get classed as being on the left.

To people on the right, please understand that misleading news is significantly worse on your outlets. CNN and the like will bend the truth, word things dishonestly and selectively omit facts. Fox and breitbart will straight up publish clickbait headlines with zero evidence

lol is this a joke? serious question what a load of shit, pretending only Fox News comes up with misinformation

shame on you OP

Give an example and prove it's a joke...

Here you go CNN is openly deceptive and is no better than Fox news. To believe so is just succumbing to your biases.

Do you think the difference between the networks responses is worth anything?

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VIEW THESE EMAILS CITIZEN! WE THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH HAVE ALREADY CLEARED THEM AND WE CAN READ THEM BECAUSE WE ARE THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH BUT IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO DO SO

are you seriously asking this question? lmfao this sub and the anti jerk is too much fuck off

Sounds like a fairytale that I once believed in when I was indoctrinated by all the lefts progressive lies. We must respect borders otherwise there will be a massive clash of ideologies. The self-hatred of our own western culture is disgusting too. If you hate the west, then go and build your uncivilized utopia elsewhere. Veterans didn't fight to have their culture shamed and wiped out. Stand up for your people. Words like "Islamaphobia" have done way too much damage. We need to stop with the revisionist history commie bullshit. If you're from a western country with strong Christian values then Islam is definitely a threat. Fuck all these celebs that preach tolerance but wouldn't let migrants into their gated communities too. Most importantly, fuck Merkal.

Dude you can't just expect someone who doesn't like their environment to just "go build their own utopia" that just doesn't make any sense and you know it.

I'm sure most of us have issues with our enviroments, but we don't all wake up looking for things to complain about. The majority of it is all hardcore virtue signalling because progressives rarely complain about elephant in the room topics. The majority of SJWs are millenials, they're literally all trading their privacy and freedom away for conveniance, and they have the cheek to moan about oppression. If we are too tolerant then globalists will walk all over us. We need to protect all cultures and borders so they can prosper, that means not creating failed states in other nations too. We can still have immigration for people that want to assimilate into our culture. I want to believe that multiculturulism still works, but I don't think that it can work with a democratic system, there will be too many ideologies and it will just end up in chaos.

Stop with that bullshit. Who signed the patriot act? Who enacted the nsa? You're just making shit up at this point.

I'm from the UK, so it would be the Snoopers Charter in my case. Why do millenials buy into this shit though, if they wanted to end corruption they would have never support mass surveillance. Older folks are still guilty of supporting a surveillance state, but they believe in the fear mongering, they think it's for their own security. Millenials actually buy shit knowing it's corrupt.

The self-hatred of our own western culture is disgusting too.

May I ask, what is it about 'western culture' that you see as being hated?

You're kidding right? They hate everything about Western culture. If you can't see that, you are blind. Leftism is the constant war against every value, tradition, and social norm that Western civilization has brought us. You do realize that when they talk about White Supremacy, and the Patriarchy, what they are referring to is The West, right? Tell me that you realized that before now.

You didn't answer my question...

What is it about 'western culture' that you see as being hated? If youre just going to answer, "everything," then people are just going to assume you don't know.

First of all, we have to define the West. The West euphemestically and colloquially means, the White world. Western culture is derived from an amalgamation of the Greco-Roman philosophies of old, of Christendom, and of the Enlightenment. The angle they take today is that the Classics of the Greco-Roman era are "Fascist" and that they uphold "White Supremacy".

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/7/13512960/donald-trump-plato-democracy-tyranny-fascism-2016-elections

https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/901283225628155904?lang=en

In fact, the very thing that they are referring to as The Patriarchy, as White Supremacy, IS the West, and Western culture. The West for a long time was everywhere that White Christendom had spread, (pre-Enlightenment, obviously). You must notice that popular culture, as portrayed by the media, by Hollywood, by the corporations, by celebrities, etc., has no remorse about being anti-White and anti-Christian. Minorities and Progressives resent Whites as the villain of their history, the source of their past suffering, and their current circumstances. When they think of Whites they think of colonialism, imperialism, slavery, and genocide. So given that Western culture and civilization is implicitly White, you have one thing they hate about it. Given that it's also implicitly either Christian, agnostic, or atheist, that is another thing they hate about it. They resent core Western cultural values, like marriage being between a man and a woman, or the traditional gender roles, and wish to replace them with Progressive, Multicultural values. Please see that Multiculturalism is utterly incompatible with Westernism. The West is a culture. A multiculture necessarily displaces and dilutes the culture that was there before.

You need to understand the core philosophy of Leftism to understand why they resent the West and Western culture. The Left's base outlook is that of the infinite ingroup. Inclusivity is the highest moral good in the Leftist mind. Anything that is exclusive is considered wrong. In relationship to nations, there are citizens, and there are non-citizens. The nation is by its nature, exclusive, in that some people have access, and some don't. For this reason, the Left will always hate Nationalism, and will try to break it down through mass immigration. Their instinct is to make everything more inclusive, and to deconstruct anything that is exclusive.

The West is exclusive. Not everyone can be Western. Not everyone can live in the West. This makes the West offensive to them. Their response to the West is Globalism, which they believe is the ultimate and final form of Inclusivity™. To deconstruct the West, so that they make make way in the zero-sum cultural space for Globalism, they will constantly continue to erode Western norms, values, and traditions, in an attempt to "boil the frog". A frog will let itself be boiled to death, as long as you raise the heat in the pot slowly enough.

Another analogy for this is a Jenga tower. If you don't know the game Jenga, then google it momentarily, and then come back to this comment. Their action against the West has been persistent, but slow, something they called "the long march through the institutions". I visualize it like this. Imagine taking one block out of a Jenga tower, and then sneakily pocketing it, and replacing it with one of your own. Imagine the tower is 100 blocks, only 1/100 of the tower has changed, no one notices. Imagine next year you take another block, and replace it with your own again. Still, no one cares, it is only 2/100 different than it was, and now new people are experiencing the tower for the first time, this version of the tower is the only one they even know.

If you keep doing that, 1 block at a time, for 100 years, you will have left an entirely different Jenga tower behind. Not one block of it will be the block that was there 100 years before. And yet no one will know that anything changed. This process is what they call "Progress". Progressivism is a massive cultural force today, have you ever asked yourself what it is Progressing away from? It is away from Westernism. Whenever anyone proposes ANY rollback of any "Progressive" policy, back to the way it was under Westernism, all the moralizing pundits squawk in their chorus, "we can't go backwards, history only moves forward". This is loaded language train your mind, to make it appear that when confronted with a conflict between Westernism and Globalism, that there is only one viable, or even moral choice. When that just isn't true. They hate everything about Westernism, and they will not rest until they have desconstructed it entirely, replacing it with Globalist Corporatist Multiculturalism.

The West euphemestically and colloquially means, the White world.

What about mexicans and latin america? They are also the western world.

In relationship to nations, there are citizens, and there are non-citizens.

The term of citizen has, for a very long time now, been considered an unclear term with no strict definable boundaries, so you're wrong here too.

The West is exclusive.

No it isn't. America literally stands for the opposite of this. If you do not believe in the immigration ideas etched in the statue of liberty, then you are as unamerican as a jihadist, friend.

You need to understand the core philosophy of Leftism to understand why they resent the West and Western culture.

No, I don't. I promise that you will never know as much about leftist philosophy than a leftist political theorist. I promise you. Maybe try passing this hateful shit on someone else.

Mexico is not considered a "Western" country. Neither is Ecuador or Bolivia or Guatemala or Cuba, etc. And now you're going to argue that citizen has no meaning? It means a member of the nation. Seriously people.

And it was the Statue of Liberty that was unAmerican. It was placed there by the French, with a Jewish person's quote on the front. America's very first immigration law, passed the year after the Constitution, was the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1790, which restricted immigration into the USA to "Free White persons of good moral character". You can't just redefine the entire point of people of a country by airdropping some statue in, hundreds of years after it's founding, and claim that you now have the moral authority to challenge the fundamental beliefs of the Founding Fathers. All because of some French statue?

And once again, I have said absolutely nothing hateful, I literally can't understand where you are getting that from.

You can't just redefine

Holy thank fuck yes we can!

all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens, and (as far as applicable) subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[19][20]

People didn't like this. I like that, have an upvote.

Of course the post about politics on a conspiracy forum blows up, can't be discussing actual conspiracies here now can we. As if there aren't enough places to play "their" game and waste energy on the left/right paradigm as is. The only way to win is to not play at all, think about that before you fall in their dualistic trap.

this culture war seems to be much broader than left and right, more like 'awoke' and 'asleep'.

Becoming 'awoke' involves realizing that Trump is not the bad guy, hes actually fighting against the media and deep state in a very real way.

This is a very confusing process that involves upending all sorts of deep seated beliefs and setting aside previous assumptions and forgiving personal flaws in light of the big picture.

This left and right line is as arbitrary as ever. Its def true that its used to divide, and its confusing because how can the left with so many good social ideas be wrong?

The answer is that the social systems have been hijacked a long time ago. We see this in the CDC and other departments. Good ideas and positive intentions are lost.

You have to cut the rot out. Its going to hurt, but left and right need to align against the common enemy, the deep state globalist agenda.

Their signature attack is the false flag.

Gas yourself, class warfare and communist infiltration is the largest and most evil conspiracy in history.

Excellent post. More like these please

I fall into this trap all too often and it makes me sad. The cold war propaganda did an amazing job at demonizing even the mention of communism/socialism it's nearly impossible to even broach the subject.

I just found this out when I mentioned to my roommate that we live in a country that partially functions with socialism. He's a smart and rational person but he freaked out on me.

Because Communism and Socialism left an ocean of human blood to sail all the way from there to here over a hundred years so they can tell us to not repeat their dumb mistakes.

There is a very good reason that Communism and Socialism are hated in America, both are totally against both the Framers, and the Constitution, the only document responsible for the modern existence of the country.

The only propaganda relevant to today is the idea that Communism and Socialism are acceptable or desirable forms of government.

I don't want Socialists or Communists in charge at all, but in the event of us actually having a voting system that allows for several parties, I'd appreciate a Socialist party of some sort to help balance out the votes. And just the word has been so demonized in America that all of these people use it as an insult

It is rightly so an insult, and I for one don't want a socialist policy because the current left party already went down that road.

Bernie Sanders is a capitalist. Please disprove me

That statement is a blatant conformation you don't know what these terms even mean, you just associate stuff you disagree with at socialism. Neoliberalism is basically the opposite of socialism.

Because Capitalism left an ocean of human blood.... yada yada yada. you totally just proved the point here.

there is zero good reason these ideas are hated in America btw. and the US is responsible for some much of the bloodshed. look at South America, Cuba.

zero good reason these ideas are hated in America btw

I've given you three good reasons for an ethical/moral/legal standpoint, and further explained a large proportion of personal hatred of that ideology.

But keep on thinking Communism is~the way of the future~ while destroying the oh-so-tolerant system which has enabled the very pinnacle of human civilization you dumb tankie.

seriously, prove to me that communism alone has killed more than fascism or even capitalism. you can't because none of these ideologies are even enough of a monolith for their own followers to decide what they did and did not do. and again, you're on goddamn r/conspiracy and trying to ignore what the CIA did to nations it perceived as too leftist?

I'm an anarchist, I fucking argue with tankies for fun. and clearly you're uninformed if you think we've somehow reached the pinnacle of human civilization, which is the most ignorant thing I have heard on here perhaps ever (consider this: there is no pinnacle and we've sucked every moment of our civilized existence)

Communism was a direct response to capitalism gone wild in the mid 1800s. Worker conditions didn’t approve when we moved from an agrarian to an industrial society. Many of the ideals Marx had are common sentiments today. Stalin and his contemporaries were more dictators than transitional leadership to communist societies.

Pure capitalism or communism aren’t the answer just as left vs right isn’t the answer.

Because Communism and Socialism left an ocean of human blood

And what of all the deaths caused under capitalism in the USA? The problem isn't communism, socialism, or capitalism, the problem is scumbag human beings who will bend social structures as they please to do horrible things. Capitalists do genocide, communists do genocide. What's the common factor? Murderous elites at the top controlling the system to do these evil acts.

The cold war propaganda did an amazing job at demonizing even the mention of communism/socialism it's nearly impossible to even broach the subject.

The bright side to this is that the young generations were never exposed to that. Socialism is actually quite popular among young people and we're not afraid of "scary" buzzwords like that. If you look at the votes of just people under 30 in the 2016 primaries, Bernie Sanders, a self-avowed democratic socialist, got more votes than Trump and Clinton COMBINED. That's what young people think of socialism.

More centralized government managed solutions will surely solve our problems. Expand the state already, for Soycalism!

“I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half.” attributed to Jay Gould (1836-1892)- some say it was JP Morgan, some say H. Ford. All of them were pricks.

I still think that if everyone read Machiavellis "The Prince" the divide between us would be lessened because we would understand their tricks.

Watch "Harlan County USA" and you'll see the mining company hire poor people to beat up other poor people. It's a documentary that's available online

Will do. Thanks.

Werent the local law enforcement involved to crack some skulls?

Isn't that literally what they did during the union revolutions? Hire some poor working dudes to come in and be mercenaries to beat up the labor force unionizing? I think it's specifically mentioned for Carnegie steel in men who built America

Surprise twist: the "class struggle" is part of the culture war

I still think that if everyone read Machiavellis "The Prince" the divide between us would be lessened.

Interesting. Definitely putting it on my list of books to read.

Our entire being, both as a whole and individually, is based on love and/or fear.

We are all a target for misrepresentation and stereotypes, which ultimately leads to fear and hate. The goal is for us to be divided.

We don't have to agree with each other, but not be fearful to seek different perspectives straight from the source.

"Love is all you need." ...In a perfect world. However, we each have power and the ability to embrace our differences and have love for mankind as a whole. We're all in this together, like it or not.

F**k the media.

It took far too much L/R "nuh-uh" to get to somebody who agrees with OP's ethos. Thanks Spud

That's what makes the world go 'round...or flat heh. ❤ you guys 😙

Amen.

the struggle has always been a class struggle..

class struggle

Educational struggle. Throughout history, clever and cared for people either helped or hurt others the most, regardless of the class they're born into.

Welp.. Florida is awake.

This divide and conquer strategy is as old as our race, it's just more refined and advanced today and we seem to be allergic to learning from the past so it has to repeat itself.

Yes, we are one, united in our struggle and in our belonging, but what's that worth if 98% can't manage to look past their indoctrinated differences? Nothing.

Our species has been at war with itself for eons, it's time we get a taste of true peace.

it's time we get a taste of true peace

Ageed. Hit the big red button* and let the cockroaches have a turn at ruling the planet.

*we have the biggest button and it works

this is absolutely spot on however the political bias in the OP is showing

Yeah OP basically said the right needs to hear out the left as they have really good ideas but basically said nothing about hearing out the right, just that they aren't all Nazis.

That's not what he said at all...

Oh really? Please summarize it for me then...

maybe "the right" is worse at hearing out ideas, sorry not sorry.

ok but really, I have heard more arguments devolve into right-wingers telling left-wingers they are SJWs/globalists/contributing to the downfall of Western society, than I have heard left-wingers call all right-wingers Nazis. the Nazi thing is pretty much a media game. most lefists know not everyone in a MAGA hat is a fascist; fewer people on the right seem to know that not everyone on the left is literally out to, like, destroy America.

maybe "the right" is worse at hearing out ideas, sorry not sorry.

ok but really, I have heard more arguments devolve into right-wingers telling left-wingers they are SJWs/globalists/contributing to the downfall of Western society, than I have heard left-wingers call all right-wingers Nazis. the Nazi thing is pretty much a media game. most lefists know not everyone in a MAGA hat is a fascist; fewer people on the right seem to know that not everyone on the left is literally out to, like, destroy America.

At least you admitted you were wrong but you are also wrong again in thinking your anecdotal evidence that the right is meaner to the left than the left is too the right does again not prove that the right is "worse" than the left. In fact this whole argument, you are trying to make, is just another example of exactly what you were originally claiming OP is against.

haha what did I claim OP is against tho? also no one's meaner. leftists are mean as fuck, i won't deny it.

as long as "the right" (which i digress is as much of a monloith as "the left," which is to say, not at all) markets itself in the US primarily as a group of ideologies that value profit over people and lame traditions over attempts at actual progression, the right is worse than the left at trying to make a change. it's funny that this is so lost to my fellow conspiracy nuts. (oh, and most actual leftists despise the DNC and hillary, so don't start with that shit. bernie should have won.)

So what are the right's "good ideas" that everyone should hear?

OP's post was about don't buy into the left vs. right but broke it down as the right is just confused and needs to hear out the left because they are right. OP is clearly biased as are you.

Yea thanks, I read OP's post and understood it perfectly fine. Was just asking you a simple question?

Why are you asking me? What makes me a spokesman for the right?

Why are you unwilling to answer his question?

I'm sorry I didn't cling to the performative, fraudulent liberal ideal of pretending there's a such thing as an impartial mediator. And frankly yes, the left doesn't have much to learn from the right other than learning about the people it consists of and their struggles. The ideology of the right is kind of a degenerated protestant colonial slave cult meant to make the poor work as hard as possible and worship their masters. It has very few honest policy positions or ideas that need to be kept around other than not being afraid of guns.

So this post isn't about False culture war at all. It's not about working together to achieve greatness. It's about being compassionate to and having empathy for the ignorant bumblefucks on the right that don't know any better in hopes that they will come around and be as enlightened as you. Am I understanding you correctly?

Makes sense.

Nah you're just a retard

There we have it.

I like the sentiment behind your post, but unfortunately you’re a victim of the same narrow-mindedness you’re claiming to abhor.

You could’ve at least kept up the pretence for the comments.

I think you need to go read some great British and American thinkers who weren’t anarchists and socialists. Try it. You’ll see what the right actually stands for

**I know you've heard a lot of very nasty things about communists and anarchists, but I cannot recommend enough getting to understand their views. As long as you're polite about it, there are tons of forums on here where you can talk to real live communists who will respectfully disagree with you and explain their politics in whatever depth you let them get into.

not even that, OP basically said that people are only right wing if they're stupid and misinformed and just haven't 'seen the light' yet

You are spot on. This is what OP responded with to one of my comments saying OP is biased.

I'm sorry I didn't cling to the performative, fraudulent liberal ideal of pretending there's a such thing as an impartial mediator. And frankly yes, the left doesn't have much to learn from the right other than learning about the people it consists of and their struggles. The ideology of the right is kind of a degenerated protestant colonial slave cult meant to make the poor work as hard as possible and worship their masters. It has very few honest policy positions or ideas that need to be kept around other than not being afraid of guns.

shame OP doesn't practice what they preach. they should actually talk to someone right wing and find out we're not so different.

that isn't an experience representative of the entire right tho

it teaches you about one specific experience, yes.

nah that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying that your OP implies that anyone with right wing views is just uneducated or brainwashed, and that is a gross generalisation

Yea, the voting in the post is rank with an agenda.

Divide and conquer, literally one of the oldest tricks in the book. Until this cannibalistic system is torn down the divide will only grow wider and wider.

This is absolutely subversive. There is indeed a culture war it's just that red vs blue is a part of it.

whats the culture war?

Lost me on give communist and anarchist a chance. I hate a communist just as much as I hate a fascist.

I hate a communist just as much...

Can I ask why?

• The other day I was in a bookstore and I overheard a middle-aged man berating his daughter because she wanted to buy Bernie's book. He was absolutely screaming about communism....it ended up with him saying something along the lines of, "If I buy you this book, the next thing you know you're drawing a hammer and sickle on everything and that's when I knock your teeth out."

Because Communism is responsible for a hundred million deaths in under a century, because it's antithetical to the entire being of the United States, because it led to so much human misery that countries in which is not tyrannically and vociferously kept alive inevitably fall apart and become "immunized" to Communism because the hatred of the hundreds of millions of citizens who lived under that terror for years.

Ask a few older eastern Europeans who lived under the USSR, and they'll tell you. Or my godfather, who escaped the Communists in China to America.

Not only is Communism inherently antithetical to the values entrenched in the Constitution and among the Framer's other works, but there are millions of people right here in the United States that have lived under or fled from Communism, and hate it with every fibre of their being.

Oh, all of that?

That's nothing.

I see what you are saying...I personally find it difficult to have conversations based on any kind of "running tally of deaths" or anything like that just because those numbers can be shrunk or stretched so much depending on how we define our terms, etc...

So, let me ask this instead then: In what ways do you see Communism as antithetical to our Constitutional values and our founding values?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7ruq5x/z/dt0e2t8

Who the fuck are you to call me, and the entirety of Reddit. A TOPSITE ON ALEXA, a commoner in your title. Fuck you. This site is ranked 4 on the ENTIRE WEB for active user-base. Just because you can convince a tree it has no rings doesn't make it true.

Thats not what a false flag is.

How so?

If you don’t like being manipulated by government then communism definitely isn’t for you, mate.

Lmao for real. “I’m skeptical of the government because it’s corrupt ... hey, guys, you know what would be cool? Let’s expand the governments power even more!”

This Communist moron larping as a reasonable centrist is entertaining, but is also pretty much the exact origin of the current culture war that he is claiming to have a solution for.

How do you have reasonable access to food and shelter under anarchy without a state to provide it?

Lmao for real. “I’m skeptical of the government because it’s corrupt ... hey, guys, you know what would be cool? Let’s expand the governments power even more!”

Lmao for real. “I’m skeptical of the government because it’s corrupt” “Hey, guys! Let’s expand the governments power even more!”

This is why the post suggests researching communism more...

Mao did a shit job at communism. Stalin did too, though there were points in the past (after Stalin) that the USSR was more successful than it is today.

point being if you knew a thing about the spooky scary communism you'd know what it's end goal is: a stateless and classless society. essentially anarchy, communists just go about it differently.

personally i consider myself a libertarian socialist so I disagree with how communists want things to play out, i still have developed an understanding of what exactly communism is and it's not necessarily North Korea lol

the point is communism doesn’t work like its written, I could write about a society where everyone is rich and happy and there are puppys and kittens but its a flawed concept because it can’t be done, plenty of people have tried communism and its never worked, democracies and capitalism, while it may come with its downsides, works pretty well.

We allied with Russia for 2 wars so dunno what you mean about being at their throats, also how is it a ‘yet unformed’ government when it supposedly doesnt need a government?

as soon as WWII ended we threw them under the bus.

the killing and raping thing maybe doesn't apply to the USSR but the CIA is well-known for its atrocities against nations the USSR attempted to aid in creating their own socialist society.

these societies, according to marxism (which I don't even subscribe to but will still defend because you people are so far off!), require time to be put in place. time which has historically been cut short by (a) American intervention or (b) really bad practice when compared to marxist ideals.

Chinas growing wealth and success can largely be put down to their adoption of more capitalist policies, compare the US to red china and its a different story

yes, but it's the more ""communist"" ideas that allow for the low poverty rates. people in china have lower standards of living (as in fewer luxuries, not like, dirt floors), in exchange for a better safety net for those at the bottom.

Chinas low poverty rates are the result of a change in policy allowing agricultural workers to sell food exceeding their government quotas (which also dropped drastically) onto the free market, the commmunist policy was high gains for the state with high quotas, in the 1980s it became low quotas and high gains for workers on the open market, a very capitalist move which halved poverty levels in China overnight

give me an example of anarchist communism working

there is a figure or entity of authority in all those examples, and an extreme absence of any communist principles

Spain was a fascist state for a decent portion of the 20th century, the communists were defeated. Also, it doesn’t matter whether they are democratic authority, if any one entity has authority then it is not anarchy. Spain has a government and a head of state at the moment so is definitely not anarchy. But shoot me a source on Spanish communism making Stalin jealous because I’d definitely like some evidence there

hier-archy is a system of organised authority an-archy literally refers to an absence of authority

Yes I’m entirely aware of the debate around anarchism but at its core its an anti authority ideology, anywhere true anarchy has been seen its been disastrous for human rights, including all your examples, and anywhere with ‘slightly anarchic’ governance is only made better for the presence of its authority and hierarchy (see Iceland). Theres a reason all your examples are just small communities with low populations, it’s because hierarchy is natural in human nature and the bugger a society gets the more prominent it becomes

This partisan post is brilliant. CNN is truth with a little slim. Fox is COMPLETE lies. Your agenda is clear. Bore off mate.

And your comment is sitting at a point and controversial even though completely true. OP basically said "The right are not all Nazis but you should really listen to the left, they have good ideas. Also, leftist media can be bad but right leaning media is always worse and lies when leftist media just fibs" Clear bias. CNN is no better than Fox.

It's true, what we call "left wing media" should more appropriately called "accurate.". What passes for news on the right is just unreasonable disingenuous distortions being played out for hateful morons who don't give a shit about the actual truth.

Wow, man, great post. This is the first totally right on conspiracy post I have ever seen and I have been on reddit for 8 or 9 years... Very well said.

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The left and right wings

Not just left v right. It's any binary option. East versus West is equally stupid.

This, more than anything, is the big picture. Take computers for example, they are crude versions of how we operate. Binary code - 0 or 1. Wheareas quantum computers run on Ternary code, giving them larger scope. That's how we're supposed to run , but they're pushing us to stay in binary code as to stop our full potential. Keeping us more left brained.

If they didnt want us to hate them, they should have worn a different colored shirt!

Gilded posts on r/conspiracy? That's a sure sign of fuckery.

I don’t trust it

The divide and conquer people could have gilded it, you know the ol reverse psychology.

Like at what side this whole post is blaming the most.

ok what about the year 13 month trump Russia narrative that has yet to produce any actual evidence of collusion? What about the book published by Michael Wolff thst that the left bas been fawning over despite the disclaimer at the beginning of the book that none of the claims in it are verified or necessarily factual?

You're perpetuating a myth held by the left that they are somehow more responsible consumers of information than the right because more people on the left decided weed should be legal like 10 years before people on the right did. it's pretentious bullshit.

Americans, by and large, are stupid people. the left just feels more justified in their stupidity because they own most of the media.

what about the 15 month long Trump Russia narrative that has yet to produce any actual evidence of collusion?

Did I miss the part where Muller had a press conference and let us know that he's found absolutely nothing?

you missed the part where the absence of evidence is evidence of nothing. why do you believe Trump colluded with the Russians despite the mounting and actually demonstrable evidence that the FBI has been colluding against Trump this entire time? explain specifically why you believe that please. specifically.

Are you claiming to have more resources and/or detective skills than the FBI? Do you have access to confidential information that the average conspiracy user doesn't? I understand that the MSM is bad and shit, I'm not parroting the narrative. But how can you sit here and claim there's some huge absence of information when there's literally no way you can say that with 100% accuracy.

I'll tell you what I do know: DT lies his ass off about his connections to Russia. If I have nothing to hide, I don't lie about shit.

What russian connections has trump lied about? I asked you to be specific.

And since when do r/conspiracy users display such blind trust in the intelligence agencies of the united states. Of all people?

What about Strzok? What about Bruce Ohr? The FBI agent whos wife was working at Fusion GPS while Steele was doing oppo work there?

What about the fact that the russian lawyer trump jr. met with colluded with Fusion GPS to run as smear campaign agaisnt Bill Browder just a few years after he lobbied congress to pass the magnitsky act? What about the fact that that hillary clinton funded the dossier.

Any of this shit ringing a bell?

I asked you to be specific

No, you're asking me for information you could easily obtain yourself. Not that it would do any good to provide you with that information since you'd just shut it down due to opposing narratives.

Did I display blind trust or am I asking if you have the resources the FBI does? Do you deny that the FBI has information you don't?

Keep on keeping on with your half truths, keyboard warrior. I'm done with your bullshit.

ok but what does it matter what information. the fbi may or may not have that I don't in this case wh3n the fbi has never said Trump colluded with Russia anyway?

I'm asking you why you believe Trump colluded with russia

Okay, ill bite. When did I ever say I believe Trump colluded with Russia? I believe he is indebted to Russians monetarily. I would the presidency be incredibly transparent. This administration is jumping through hoops to not be transparent. I hope Muller turns over every ugly stone of Trump's for all of Americans to see.

Why are you so vehemtly against him being investigated? Who would you rather investigate him and the people surrounding him?

I wasn't against him being investigated at first but I am now because now this investigation stinks to high heaven?

why do you say trump is indebted to Russia? I've never heard that before? do you believe Trump colluded with the russians? is that the reason why?

lol wow. way to snake out of that one completely. you're like th3 king of cop outs

Apply directly to the forehead!

who in the White house is wearing an ankle bracelet?

you make baseless accusations and you can't even back them up wothout even knowing what you're talking about and call that "in depth?" ther3 was nothing "in depth" about your comment, it was just banter. just like your post actually, nothing of substance really, just reworked cliches and pretentious assumptions. nothing original. nothing new.

why don't you go "in depth" about who in the White house is or ever was wearing an ankle bracelet then you realise that claim was untru3, why don't you get "in depth" with yourself about why you believed some crap likr that in the first place, and then you can revisit the first paragraph of my first comment and go "in depth" on how we've just come "full circle."

Point to a baseless accusation

That people in the White house are wearing ankle bracelets. nobody in the White house is wearing an ankle bracelet

You're writing is bad because you pretend to be virtuous and bipartisian. hollier than thou. when in reality you are not only extremely biased but also stupid. you're just another idiot mouthing off about shit you don't you have no real idea about.

Again, more baseless insults. Do you actually have any thoughts about what I wrote, or just feelings?

I think you're an idiot lol.

Tell me this. Do you believe Trump colluded with or is somehow indebted to the Russians?

I've heard some awful things from the left. Your agenda is showing, comrade.

Hahaha that is the tell tale sign of this post, and all of the highly upvoted fake comments. Ironically, this post creates more right/left divide. It is not even subtly biased to the left lol.

Thank you. Just really thank you for this.

But you're spreading propaganda yourself. Us in the red hats don't hate people of colour. There are thousands of people of colour themselves wearing the red hats, so that couldn't make any sense, could it?

Our problem is with those leeching off our system, illegally. Our problem is with those who follow a barbaric doctrine that states that we are their enemy and so should be murdered in their god's name.

Naturally, a lot of these people are brown or black, but it's not because they're brown or black that we want them out.

" but out of desperation they made the mistake of trusting one wing of the machine that then pumped them full of fascist propaganda and got their fear, hatred and suspicion pointed at the poor, people of color and foreigners, anywhere but at the man behind the curtain"

" I know you've heard a lot of very nasty things about communists and anarchists, but I cannot recommend enough getting to understand their views."

Perhaps you should have remained neutral instead of clearing picking a side. You lost all respect and attention when you made this miscalculation. I agree with your overall divide and conquer theory, but you clearly have no interest in "healing" you want conservatives to see that your perspective is the superior one.

I have no problems with liberals, in fact many of my close friends voted Hillary and Bernie, but BTFO with this communist sympathy shit, been there done that. Have you ever met and spoken with immigrants from Communist countries? My GF's parents and grandparents fled communist China, so um no thanks. Their doing very well here(middle class blue collar workers), they own a home in a nice part of LA and both their children graduated Ivy league schools with honors on full scholarships. And they voted Trump because they've already "enjoyed" the benevolence of communism.

Typical Liberal pseudo-intellectual college graduate, next time major in Business or STEM and do some actual critical thinking instead of multiple choice memorization and fooling yourself into thinking you know how to solve the problems with capitalism(which are plenty)

Yuri Bezmenov: How to Brainwash a Nation. This will tell you all you need to know about the far-left, known as useful idiots.

That said, I do agree with the overall needing to realize most liberals and conservatives are not extremist and we have many values in common. But enough with this fascist and communist propaganda, which btw for the record are both left-wing tenants. Don't believe me? Keep an open mind and do an internet search. Large totalitarian, freedom stripping(Hitler gun control,etc) ideologies are not a proponent of conservatism. Fascism is only "right" as it's slightly to the right of Communism which is as far left as you can go.

This idea that you can talk to delightful communists on many subreddits is laughable as well. OP is just suggesting space communism and is suggesting workers willing to work for less than the cost of implementing automation tech are going to what? Die, demand higher wages, or stop working/consuming all in concert?

I never said or implied that I can or for that matter want to talk to "delightful communists." I'm in my mid-thirties and talk is cheap, show me the proof that communism isn't responsible for the democide of 70-100 million people and that Venezuela isn't living proof of the failed ideology.

Wtf is space communism? And your subsequent points riddled with failed deductive logic.

How about they develop skills in fields that won't be displaced by automation as easily. Plumbers, electricians, Hvac, etc.. Or how about low iq people who are incapable or unwilling to find jobs that are above low skilled labor stop having children they can't afford, and we stop importing so many of said peoples'. Additionally, taxes can be imposed on companies that fully automate and tariffs for those who decide to leave the US to use foreign cheap labor, and the income can be used to fund social welfare programs that train people to be relevant in modern societies.

How about some personal accountability and quit expecting society to take care of you. For fucks sake, I was homeless for 2 years and suffer from Bi-polar disorder and yet I've managed to make a respectable living for myself in Los Angeles(very expensive) so what's their excuse?

Quit playing the victim and find a way to do what immigrant Chinese,Indian,Pakistani etc.. immigrants are clearly able to do despite their language and cultural barriers-become successful in 1-2 generations.

Was in agreement with your post, OP Suggested talking to delightful communists on reddit. Space Communism

Oops. I clearly didn't read your reply carefully enough, and have in hindsight exceeded my daily limit for communist propaganda(live In So-Cal) I'm going to edit my previous post. Sorry about that.

Wants less government control but wants to say who gets to breed, what they should be taught and what they should do for work... That makes sense.

And I'm sure you totally pulled yourself out of homelessness with no outside assistance. Cool story bro.

Says who gets to breed? Um, that was California with the Eugenics, and Hitler Fascism, both Left wing.

And yes I did pull myself out of being homeless, the only help I had was access to mental health services for no cost/low cost and self-reliance. Wasn't easy by any means and I suffered substance abuse for another 5-7 years even after getting off the street. It wasn't until I was around 30 that I started getting my shit together and I'm now 36, so it was a very, very long process.

Those services weren't free, somebody had to pay... The fact government hand outs are okay for you but other people are irresponsible if they need assistance screams of hypocrisy.

How about they take some personal accountability and quit expecting society to take care of them For fucks sake

Come on man... If you really did make it through such tough times then why are you so mad at the people with less than you? Where is the empathy, your humanity? You should, of all people, realize that shitty situations happen and sometimes society has a whole can play an important part in getting them back on track.

"Those services weren't free, somebody had to pay... The fact government hand outs are okay for you but other people are irresponsible if they need assistance screams of hypocrisy. "

I agree, and I used the services and got my shit together by first becoming an auto-mechanic, then a plumber and finally going to college and getting into accounting and finance. I also chose not to have children while I was accepting help and unable to be fully self-reliant, and due to mental health reasons(bi-polar) I've chosen not to have children(vasectomy) So I'm hardly a hypocrite.

You: "Come on man... If you really did make it through such tough times then why are you so mad at the people with less than you? Where is the empathy, your humanity? You should, of all people, realize that shitty situations happen and sometimes society as a whole can play an important part in getting them back on track."

I have no qualms helping out those who help themselves and in fact am involved in a community outreach program and county hospital for adults and adolescents with bi-polar and substance abuse, particularly homeless and I/we mainly on life-coaching and work/substance rehab(others)

I'm not mad, I'm saddened and frustrated and sometimes anger is the secondary emotion that manifest.I fully support a safety net, but it's become a safety hammock and people, whether intentionally or not, are abusing the system and it's not helping them in the long run. When you become dependent for too long, you lose the confidence and faith that you can ever take care of yourself again in the future. That said, having been homeless and a drug/alcohol addict I know what does and doesn't work not only from my own personal experience but from those I met along the way. If your not going to get sober, and your not going to take other measures to start helping yourself, then why should anyone else?

Me: " Or how about low iq people who are incapable or unwilling to find jobs that are above low skilled labor stop having children they can't afford."

YOU: So says eugenics proponents, Hitler and u/thetruthhurts2016"

Really? Lol, talk about a fallacy of false equivalence. I never suggested, or even implied that external forces make these decisions for people in need of help, rather I suggested they take agency and make the responsible decision for themselves.

I would have otherwise continued this exchange; but your last sentence that I just mentioned is evidence that you either lack the maturity, or reasoning skills to continue discourse with.

Automation is coming. Truck drivers, as well as minimum-wage fast food workers are going to be out of jobs overnight. What happens when those people stop receiving a paycheck? Do you know what people would do to feed their children? Anything.

Once the ruling class has no need for workers, (who is going to buy their products?) the only outcome is a universal basic income, or revolution.

I understand your point, and wages are the driving force in automation in the US at least. Minimum wage increases are why there are threats of automation, whether we agree with the increase or not. The trucking industry would be a huge hit I agree, but at the same token why is it (subjectively) less of a concern for Ag? I would bet due to the large amounts of cheap illegal labor that exists of people, "doing the jobs Americans won't do." I'm for the end of exploiting illegal immigrants, bring on the farm automation.

I'm not invested in this as being a humanitarian disaster. I don't think your average US citizen is that far removed, generation-wise, from being illiterate. All of history is made of better people than I, and it'd be a sham to think that everyone is entitled to live a comfortable lifestyle let alone a better life. Yeah, may sound defeatist, but unless there is a higher order being ready to hit the reset button, I'll continue to not get my hopes up.

This is exactly what OP is talking about. Instead of willing to try to understand the other side, or even engage in thoughtful dialogue to maybe even change their minds, the primary response is "better dead than red".

It's no secret here that there are corporate masters, pulling strings behind the scenes to further their agenda via organizations like the CFR, Davos, Bilderberg, etc., to create a neoliberal corporate globalist one world government. I think we can all agree that we will fight those corporate masters to prevent them from doing that to the very end.

You have to understand that the goal of socialism and communism is to destroy the state, which has killed millions of people throughout history, and has stolen food from the mouths of their most vulnerable, starving citizens only to line the pockets of beaurocrats.

This is the real tragedy, that we have created, live in, and accept a system where it is possible to have simultaneous crises of both obesity and starvation. With the advent of today's technology, it is possible to feed and house every person on Earth, however there is no real effort to do that because it would be 'unprofitable'. Here in America, we are free from most dieases that plague the rest of the world just because of access to clean drinking water, and the ability to cure what few diseases do make it through with a (somewhat) easily attainable course of antibiotics. The rest of the world does not have this ability; indeed, infants die of preventable causes. All because 'it costs money'.

Socialists and communists realize that these issues are a symptom of a larger problem, which is the system itself. There is no 'central government' in communism, there would be no ominous 'one world government".

Socialists don't advocate for gun control, they see it as a neccessity to prevent a tyrannical government. I'll agree with you that some of the main socialism or communism subs are less than helpful, they are filled with edgy, presumptious teenagers with no real world experience. However subs like /r/debatecommunism or /r/socialism_101 exist as well, and are much better learning resources.

The point is, that a neoliberal corporate globalist one world government, is not the same as society which has chosen communism for its ability to provide a better life, for all of its citizens, globally.

We all realize there is a major problem, and change is coming. Which change exactly, will depend on our ability, or inability, to work together to create a better life for all.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss in further detail.

Thanks for your thoughtful and through reply. I'll check out the subs and reply to you within a week or so.

"You have to understand that the goal of socialism and communism is to destroy the state, which has killed millions of people throughout history, and has stolen food from the mouths of their most vulnerable, starving citizens only to line the pockets of beaurocrats"

While it may have been their goal, the reality is that what you described is the end result of their actions. Capitalism hasn't resulted in the deaths of millions. All communism has accomplished is transferring the power from owners to the state.

"There is no 'central government' in communism" Perhaps in theory, but the Soviet Union, China, India, Venezuela , etc say differently. Your proposing support for anarcho-communism, and I favor anarcho-free market, while their both similar, neither has a living or past example of success for any sustained duration except in small communities(in the hundreds to low thousands)

"The point is, that a neoliberal corporate globalist one world government, is not the same as society which has chosen communism for its ability to provide a better life, for all of its citizens, globally."

Can you give me one example where the reality of this actually played out successfully? And please explain why immigrants flee from communist "utopias" to America?

you're exactly the kind of person this post is aimed at and it's sad how bad a job you've done at finding the point.

look up the political compass is my advice. fascism is the polar opposite of left libertarianism, communism is the polar opposite of right libertarianism. they are only the same in their authoritarian tendencies. conflating fascism with communism is about as daft as you can be.

Democratic-Socialism is not Communism. It's how the parts of the world that actually have a superior quality of life operate.

And which parts are you referring to?

Sweden, Norway, etc you know, all those countries your dear leader wishes would move to our shithole country but would laugh at the prospect.

The end game is to exterminate whites through (((their))) kalegri plan and establish a global communism where all humans are slaves. Spell things out any way you want, defending whites and my nation is my priority.

I would disagree that CNN is not as bad as FOX. Maybe it seems like that to you because of your personal political beliefs. There are assets of the CIA working in all major news outlets and the news is mostly fake and politicized. I have liberal and conservative views depending on the topic. The worst thing to me right now is watching the constant fighting. I unfollowed anybody/page on social media who posts anything political whether I agreed with it or not. I balance any news I take in with positive media. If I watch the news for a while, and it triggers me.. I have to listen to some Dave Chappell.. Joe Rogan or Tony Robbins. Remind myself the world is not just politics and humans are far more complex and beautiful than left or right... if they choose to be.

not everybody in a red cap is a fascist

Right, they only support and enable fascists.

Listen, I get that these people are victims of the same corrupt system, but nobody's responsible for dragging them kicking and screaming into the future. Socialism is about everyone contributing for everyone's benefit, and the redhats have a moral objection to working while someone else benefits. Gulags are there for a reason, friend.

To people on the right, please understand that misleading news is significantly worse on your outlets...

Come back and try again when you've actually escaped the false paradigm yourself.

What I expected from this sub: Illuminati, the occult, the mystery schools.

What I got: /r/politics tinfoil circlejerk.

Starve them out by using cryptocurrencies as much as possible as a store of value.

The cryptos will be the money that you use to pay with your RFID implant.

You can call it a false flag all you want, but one party supports gay marriage, net neutrality, marijuana legalization, and single player Healthcare while the other doesn't. All you have to do is look at the voting records to prove it.

Sometimes a good politician is one that supports what the people want when enough people support it. As a gay man I'll be the first to criticize the dems for waiting to support same sex marriage until it was politicall expedient (at least on the national level). But sometimes you have to wait for things to politically viable.

So instead we have to address this at the state level. Which states are legalizing marijuana? Mostly blue states. Which states legalized same sex marriage first? All blue states. Which states have higher taxes on the wealthy? Blue states. What states are pushing for net neutrality? Blue states.

Claiming both sides are the same is an age old tactic to create false equivalency and confuse the issues. I consider myself an independent, but I have staked out my policy positions and the side that more closely aligns with those positions has consistently been the Democrats.

Now, are the Clintons shills for big business interests? Absolutely. Doesn't mean the whole party is, especially at the state level. The parties are not the same.

How is "liberalism" inherently dehumanizing or violent? Leftism, maybe (see: communist Russia), but that isn't liberalism. Further, you say liberalism is inherently bad then praise the most liberal candidate in the 2016 election.

Which party is the one that denies global climate change is even happening? Which party is trying to strip environmental protections? The Democrats are cowards, but we live in a country where 40+ percent of the population also believes the world is only 6000 years old and that evolution is a liberal lie.

As for drone strikes, millions of Iraqis died in the Iraq war. Do I like drone strikes? No. But Americans are demanding action in the middle east, and drone strikes result in far fewer civilian casulaties than boots on the ground. What on earth are the Democrats supposed to do?

What on earth are you defining "liberalism" as?

Okay, so that is one form of liberalism. I'm glad we've clarified.

However, your argument that slavery and coerced labor are the backbone of liberal democracy is one that I will need you to flesh out for me more. Slavery has existed under many forms of government, and all modern liberal democracies have outlawed it (and prison labor hardly serves as a backbone).

So please tell me more.

They haven't outlawed chattel slavery, they exported it.

Slavery is illegal within the borders of these countries. By definition that means they've outlawed it. I will not argue with you that working conditions of the poor in many countries are atrocious and we are culpable for supporting it (that means you and me both, as we're both using the technological architecture built by their hands). But that doesn't allow you to change the definition of things because it makes your argument sound more grand.

That aside, if you view wage labor as slavery, I'm interested to hear a more detailed account of how you in envision an ideal economy would be set up. I'll put it on the table that I view the blended systems of social democracies such as Sweden and Denmark as strong models.

Every time you buy a product made in a Chinese factory, you are choosing to support that system of oppression. Just because you reject liberalism doesn't mean you shed all responsibility for reaping its rewards.

You could choose to live in a cabin in the woods. Just because you don't like the alternatives doesn't absolve you of responsibility.

How convenient that you get to indulge in all benefits of this social contract - the technology, the security, the convenience, the leisure, the bananas - and yet you bare none of the blame. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? Some shadowy, abstract elite.

If wage labor in a modern, western nation is equivalent to historical slavery in this ideological stance of yours, I simply have no words left. It is an insult to the truly enslaved. You have created a perpetual victimhood equivalent to every other polemic political stance on the market.

I just don't buy it.

You are naïve. It's the regressive left who wants to enslave the conservative and liberal working class

Communists and anarchists are retards. You've lost all credibility. Good day sir

I was watching Gangs of New York recently and there was a great quote, it went something like "you can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half." This was when they were drafting everyone to the army and riots were breaking out. Great movie.

I was watching Gangs of New York recently and there was a great quote, it went something like "you can always hire one half of the poor to kill the other half." This was when they were drafting everyone to the army and riots were breaking out. Great movie.

For the most part, I agree with you. Except for this:

To lefties, just remember not everybody in a red cap is a fascist. More often they're hardworking people that saw the same blatant corruption in our government you do, but out of desperation they made the mistake of trusting one wing of the machine that then pumped them full of fascist propaganda and got their fear, hatred and suspicion pointed at the poor, people of color and foreigners, anywhere but at the man behind the curtain

Donald Trump has shown his colors; the man is a proto fascist if not a fascist outright. To me, this was obvious in the primaries but I can understand if people didn't see it. But if someone can still support him to this day, that person is either a fascist themselves or incredibly stupid. I don't begrudge anybody who voted for him because I understand that his dog whistles didn't land on some people and they voted for him for other reasons. But he's not dog whistling anymore, he's shouting into a megaphone from the rooftops. His supporters can give up on him at any time and at that point, it's the end of the story. Nothing more needs to be said or done. But if someone supports him still and has no inclination to give him up, that person is a fucking fascist and that person is my enemy.

You are currently an insane person who has suffered tremendously under partisan politics

I don't like either major party or any minor party. This is entirely philosophical, not partisan.

This sub is hilariously shitty over the last few years, and this being so popular is telling. Sub is almost entirely useless now.

You're funny. Your whole statement had a leftist slant while you were claiming that we shouldn't be divided, right vs left...

Try a rewrite without the bias.

Excellent post !!!

lol nice double gild, shill. I guess this sub is just as compromised as /r/politics

It definitely is

Got em

Thanks for the heads up

Cheers

I get that you're angry at the way OP describes the US right, but you're not making any sense.

Getting gilded does not equal shill. That's just stupid.

..And if you read the actual post you will see that it is the antithesis to shillery.

When has TPTB ever been interested in us working together?

Removed. Rule 10

I would say it's a decent post had it not basically been "to the left, forgive the right, to the right, you are all wrong". That just simply isn't how you unite people. Your basic casting of blame shows you are still in that left vs right mindset. You still view one side as the bad guy. When you ditch that in favor of seeing just how insane both sides actually are then you get to a decent point for something like this.

When Obama was president, I watched the right take soundbites and warp them to fit their hate of the guy. What do I see now that Trump is president, a shit ton of the same. To be clear, Trump is a worthless pile of shit, and so was Obama. But the way people blatantly give their side the benefit of the doubt while shitting on the other side and not acknowleging it means they will never get past this point.

Don't get me wrong here, there is plenty of shit that is blatantly wrong on the right. This isn't to defend them, but moreso to make people on the left understand that when they pull the same shit they just finished defending against for 8 years, it's insane. Confirmation bias has become the king and we are all subject to it until we pull ourselves out. It doesn't matter how much you scream about false equivalence when you lack the perspective to actually look at the situation without the huge amount of bias that you hold on to.

As refreshing as this whole thread is to read, I cannot help but think that cowardice will always win. There are too many people who are too easily manipulated by their fear.

ITT: LateStageCapitalism and other prog propagandists

I agree with the sentiment. Republican-Democrat-Left Wing-Right Wing and the whole identity politic and cultural war bullshit are all just modes of control.

But I draw the line at hugging it out with communists. Never has the road to hell been paved with more good intentions than in the case of globalist-funded groups like ANTIFA. These are kids who think they’re doing something good but really they’re just unwittingly carrying out the plan to weaken our nation’s strength from the inside. And they don’t converse. They regurgitate slogans and lob shit at anyone to the right of Marx.

I love the vibe, though. Liberals: I am a conservative Libertarian and I want us to get along. I do not want to take your rights away. In fact, the opposite - I want to reduce the size and power of our corrupt government and give us all the ability to think, live, and act as we please and undisturbed. I love you as fellow countrymen and I want us to reunite. I know we will.

ughhhh this is so frustrating lol. Bro antifa is not enough of a damn organization to be funded by anyone except the people organizing local meetups and marches. there is just no evidence to that claim. I agree they aren't very good at conversing but for the most part they literally only march against actual white supremacists like Ricky boy Spencer, so if you're not out there in your Klan hat Antifa really isn't an issue. also, antifa is anti-fascism. it's not communist or anarchist or libertarian, any ideology can be antifa. theoretically you could be antifa, assuming you're not down with fascist ideas! (and no, antifa people don't necessarily think Trump is a fascist either, just that he empowers them in ways they were previously unempowered)

I am a left-wing libertarian, and I want us to get along. I also get along with commies, and right wing libertarians. Both those groups share some ideals with me. Neither group is actively trying to undermine our country or whatever. people make sense of things in different ways. I'm sure there are communists out there who would sit down with you and I and have a fruitful conversation. the only people who want to undermine anything are the ones at the top, yes indeed the globalists, the neoliberals, the neocons, whatever.

I’m sorry, man, but the people behind ANTIFA are bad folks who aren’t seeking unity or healing. Communists have killed far more people than Nazis over the years but they don’t get painted in the same light. Why do you think that is? It’s because communism is an absolutely ineffective, impossible system that never works because of human nature. It does, however, work wonderfully if the design is to disempower a country and create a population completely in the thrall of Big Government. We have limited government in this country. What makes you think a system where we give more power to a government is going to be better and not worse? This defies logic.

Look, I can tell you’re not one of them. But those people want to weaken our country so our people are so watered down and subjugated that they can do as they please. It’s not the folks being recruited. They just want to level the playing field for the rest of us. Those are just nice people who unfortunately think they can paint in broad strokes and find the easy enemy. It’s not that simple. There’s more going on.

dude, you're totally right that you can't paint in broad strokes. that's why you can't just say "antifa are bad folks." again, antifa is not some big organization, it's an ideology that intersects with other ideologies.

antifa isn't communist necessarily. there are anarchists who consider themselves antifa. anarchists and communists bicker constantly, they just agree in that they don't like plain ol' racism. (side note; that doesn't even mean they are, say, pro-immigration to the point a lot of the right thinks leftists are (as in letting everyone in unchecked). it means they want to work against the systematic oppression non white people face in the US.)

also, the "commies killed 100 trillion people" hyperbole is a pretty well-researched area of propaganda. the only mass-scale deaths from communism (which most communists would argue has never existed, at least not for long enough before the CIA shut it down) are the famine under Stalin's regime, but those official numbers still total less than the Holocaust's.

again, you're right in that it's not that simple and that's why I don't go around blubbering that every Trump voter is a fascist or an idiot! but our systems need change, they need revolution, and these changes need to come for the good of the majority. I doubt your idea of Communism is what antifa/leftists have in mind and I am totally willing to discuss it further with you or anyone else who can bother to hear me out.

Globalist funded antifa huh? Because only people getting paid to hate Nazis hate Nazis? I don't see a point of a comment like this promoting unity while simultaneously spreading bullshit about something you clearly know nothing about. Antifa has been around forever and all the sudden it's a conspiracy... you're doing exactly what you claim to be advocating against.

Dude, you’re exactly the problem. I fucking hate Nazis so don’t even try it. ANTIFA has indeed been around for years, hence its designation as a terrorist group in this country and Europe, where Soros has backed their plays for the past couple decades. I’m not advocating anything more than the agitators on both ends of the political spectrum to stop beating the shit out of each other and reinvest in the rule of law.

Well Soros owes me a LOT of money then!

And terrorist group? Because people get in fights? Jesus Christ. It's amazing how deluded people like you are.

Well Soros owes me a LOT of money then! (lol what a bunch of nonsense. I know this is r/conspiracy but still...)

Please tell me how this is nonsense.

How do you even fund a "group" (which isn't actually a group) that is just a collection of activists with similar ideas and no actual organization at all?

Here are some examples.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/heres-proof-soros-money-funding-anti-trump-leftist-protest-riots/

Also why the idea of antifa being "terrorists" is ridiculous as well, besides the obvious fact that there is no terrorism taking place under their name unless it's false flag.

The U.S. Government says differently, for what that’s worth. Interesting that you use the term “false flag” when you think conspiracies are nonsense.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

Antifa aren't the ones firebombing homes and attacking innocent minorities.

Well...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story,amp.html

Antifa are DEFENDING them because people like you think it's better to hold hands and have a conversation while a crime is actively being committed. The only language fascists understand is violence, and a friendly petition isn't going to stop THEIR terrorism.

Bro, this is so edgy I can’t even. This kind of mentality gets a lot of people killed or their lives ruined. I don’t want that for you or your loved ones.

I know you've heard a lot of very nasty things about communists and anarchists, but I cannot recommend enough getting to understand their views.

On this note, anyone who thinks they hate socialism, please read the following essay and its postscript to its conclusion.

Almost everything Tucker says is stuff that 90% of users here would immediately agree with.

Yes brother, I think you may have been a little rambly, and obviously tend to lean left, but this is absolutely the sentiment we need, not only in this sub but in all of modern society right now. We have become so far divided that I'm legitimately starting to worry about some kind of violent action breaking out. Just the amount of families that have been split apart because of this makes me ill.

Because of the immigration fuckery like what's going on with DACA or ?

CNN is not news. They are the media arm of the DNC, I'm sorry but you are wrong about them.

Trusting them is a mistake indeed but you fall short about them being the same machine.

At the end of the day we need to remember that we all want to make the world a better place. We just disagree on how to do that. They want us to forget that.

It would be great to have social safeguards and guaranteed wages and whatnot. However, the fact is that we live in a world of finite resources and there are people who are always going to try to take more for themselves. The way you fight is with your words and it's okay to do that instead of killing each other.

Everyone's not just going to agree with each other because people are set in their ways. You can't play by your opponents rules because it's not like they would ever follow their own rules to begin with. To think there are people on the fence (which there aren't many), the idea of compromise isn't exactly going to make you look like the strongest horse to bet on and it's why you have people dug into their belief systems and won't ever budge to appear weak.

A great conflict is coming

The humans

Very well said OP. In all this government shutdown business what is really happening? All I've seen is a load of people getting emotionally involved online to the point of depression. My sister told me recently that for the past year she has considered killing herself, because she's being taught that we're in a really bad place in America right now when everything is virtually the same. This has gone far enough guys. We need to band together and bitch at the people who can actually change how the system works.

Because we should've had two totally different candidates to choose from if things were moral.

Thank you. I think I needed a reminder to be more gente with my words for the opposing party. Not that I'm super combative with real people. But I tend to internalize a lot of hatred towards the regular folks who voted for the other party.

I think now I will take a different approach to political conversation going forward.

Excellent! u/ShortSomeCash I thought I was alone with the increased division and negativity this week.

Interesting that this excellent post was reported for rule violations...

ignores reports

Good mod.

Can someone make a bot that replies good mod to every mod post?

Good user

Not every mod is a good mod though.

They always abuse the report function!

Reporting this post is a rich man's trick. https://youtu.be/-QLrrzhfslg

excellent post

Communists are open minded well intentioned people but right wingers are misguided fascists. You’re a grade A asshole. https://www.reddit.com/r/FULLCOMMUNISM/comments/7rwjol/its_happening_comrades/?st=JCPJT1EU&sh=27907b93

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Next time computer

So just for the record you don't see anything wrong with this statement "whether you see our masters as shifty jews or conniving capitalists, whatever they are, they're happy we're attacking each other instead of them." ?

From my standpoint it clearly breaks several of the sub's rules.

This by far the only post I can remember , that I agreed with fully. This needs to be said everywhere

Fuck parties. The people deserve a Direct Democracy. America needs to release the party mindset.

Direct Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Yeah but there are two sheep so they’re gonna eat grass

Whoa dude. You're three weeks late and your high AF!

lol

ITT: people being divided and conquered. Wish this sub was more non-partisan. Great post though, OP.

Can someone put this on r/bestof ?

I’m literally walking out the door for work and do t have the time.

communism doesn’t work without the state, because as soon as one person chooses to withhold their wealth and use force to attain private property/ take from others the state has to step in to ensure the “utopia” (and i use that loosely) doesn’t fall apart

Communism with a state wouldn't be communism. It's a post-state theory. It's also supposed to be post-money so the idea of withholding wealth doesn't make sense. And even if it were possible, you don't need a state to deal with someone being violent. People aren't just going to sit back and not deal with it as it would be an attack on society as a whole.

so who decides what is the necessary response to a crime? what about when the a disagreements on how to deal with a offender? how do you ensure everyone plays by rules without a social contract?

It has a constitution and property rights and much power concentrated with the PYD party, this is neither anarchy nor communism

Why wouldn't there be a social contract? If you have a bunch of people living together in a community, that community is going to decide on crimes, punishments, etc. it's no different than modern society, the key difference is that there cannot be hierarchies in communist society so everything would be decided democratically.

The social contract literally functions on the idea of granting authority to someone, sacrificing certain liberties to the state and in return they enforce the protection of your remaining rights and freedoms.

how do you have post money. I understand post currency but to get of trade all together that is unrealistic.

But without a state their can be no enforcement of property rights, therefore anything of value can be taken by anyone else

Its not ‘religious liberalism’ any more than believing evolution is ‘religious biology’ I look at all the different styles of society and the times everything has been tried (fyi people have been trying this for thousands of years) and liberal democracy has proven to be the best, y’know that churchill quote about democracy? he’s right

It has a constitution and property rights and much power concentrated with the PYD party, this is neither anarchy nor communism

CNN's "hands up don't shoot" was pretty horrible for the culture wars.

Thank you for this. I've been in the very poor category my whole life, yes I make enough to live and survive but I refuse to exploit anyone else for capital and it leaves me with little choices. It's funny with all this race-dividing crap because people still act like poor communities are all African-americans when in reality there are many other ethnicity who live there. Anyway since MLK, Jr day just passed I'd like you lovely people to listen to this very important part of his Montgomery address on [How the races were kept from unifying in post civil war America] (https://soundcloud.com/mipdo/rare-mlk-jr-on-how-the-races. Take our your dictionaries too.

He talks about the social engineers, the Bourbon barons in the south, the stratagem that they implored. This has always been a class issue.

Also here is a great article about the money behind this whole "white privilege" rhetoric: Why and How Big Money Promote "White Privledge Rheotric

Totally agree about the red and blue paradigm, keep it together brothers and sisters: love, peace, unity and respect <3

Not sure I entirely agree with your assessment of Trump's popularity. People didn't get bamboozled into fascist "alt-right" ideas, they just finally had a mainstream outlet for it. Fascist leaders don't have to mislead anyone. In fact, they're usually popular because of how blunt and honest they are about their stupid worldviews.

Sorry, still not a communist. Nice try though, I guess.

The monkey trap, it's what brought me here and made me read this post well, that and a tradition of suffering given to me in a manner predicated by this. It is the same for you all, yet most will be unable to resolve these items as fact without a perspective like this or perhaps this or even this which are essentially all one in the same.

The only way to win is to default, not play, stop beating yourself and trying to explain away the wounds to others doing the same, let go. History teaches us there is no point in attempting to determine how got here, but to observe the results as they happen and respond as you will.

Christ you guys are willing to get so close without actually discovering the theory and practice of Marxism.

Does anyone have any links to how employment changed after the industrial revolution? I'm asking because I often infer how automation will affect the working class and believe the links I'm asking for could offer some insight

Dude amen to this. I tried to say something similar as in “ everyone seems to be fighting over what version of Nazi is the correct one” and that we keep telling eachother that the other is a Nazi. I don’t understand how Nazis are so fucking prevalent again in 2018. Why are we pointing fingers and yelling Nazi at each other. Why does the left not join the right in the 2nd amendment fight and us that to gain their planned parenting rights back. That’s what the amendments are for, to keep the government in check and power to the people. Why are we so split!? :( it makes me so fucking sad.

This is all part of the Illumanti’s plan, to split us apart and take our guns so we can’t defend ourselves when they come from underground.

Go look at the illumanti Card Game, their rule is they have to tell you before they do it. Well, this game was made in 1995, and have predicted events all the way up to present day, 2018. There not predicting though, it’s a plan that’s been laid out.

Really hurts your point saying the people on the right "made a mistake" and CNN doesn't omit facts like the right.

I'm in the middle and see the bias here. Still good points.

Been saying this forever, nothing is going to improve until we view each other as citizens of earth...not a color, or Nationality, or polotical affiliation, or religion. Its easier to conquer a divided/distracted nation. I hope I live to see such unity among humans but I fear this is in our nature, requiring another evolutionary step to get beyond our current state of mind.

Lol humans are funny.

This is the fakest time in history and we have the best access to information than humans ever had.

Will there be just a day when not one person turns on their fucking TV. I know for a fact that 98% of these people pretending to protest are just trying to hit social media likes. No one gives a fuck, they're all selfish slugs that only think about themselves.

Fucking right on man! Great stuff

Thanks for the post. Yeah, It's the classic divide and conquer be it through ideology, group or race.

Talks about politics splitting people up. Insults right leaning people and supports CNN. Ok

That's not a false flag though. A false flag is a single event where the identity of the aggressor is fabricated in some way.

What you're talking about is disinfo, generally. IDK if there's a more specific word for this kind of ideological confusion.

But we shouldn't overuse the term false flag. It's a single event, not just any old lie.

If the neoliberals and their corporate counterparts are smart they'll use it as an excuse for more censorship and surveilance.

I thought we published an article about this our blog patriargate.com, but it seems it remained a draft. I would answer "finally someone got it". It appears very clearly to me that elites are dividing us to exterminate us. Indeed, robots and AI will take away 60% of jobs, including most of engineering, doctors, lawyers, etc. Don't be a fool, absolutely no one is protected. This is a good achievement, but not in the current context. The conflict in place are: Islam against Europe and moderately against America USA against Europe (conservatism vs liberalism - the roles are reversing) Europe against Turkey and Russia Left vs Right Non whites vs Whites Japan against China China against USA and India Africa vs Arabs Gays vs Hetero Men vs Women Arabs vs Blacks, blacks vs whites, arabs vs whites AltLite vs Alright Communism, socialism, liberalism, etc. State vs Individual

Jews remain victims in all scenario, of course.

As you see, they set up a scene that will explode, and as you explain it very well, the solution is to come together. But for this, at least we must control our women, because they will always stop men from doing what is needed. Individualism will not be a solution, as it never was. I know that most will think this sounds like socialism, but it doesn't. We ought to survive as a group, not as individuals, this is a primary rule of nature.

cultural marxism destroying our countries from the inside

The oligarches need us to fight the movement.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I find it interesting that immediately in the wake of the financial crisis Occupy movements sprung up everywhere and were in the news for months, yet here we are a decade later with the same fuckery going on and everybody seems to want nothing more than to put it out of their minds.

But division is absolutely freaking everywhere now. Instead of division by social class (the very super rich vs., well, everybody else) every possible way you can divide people is being amplified except social class. Every possible permutation of race, gender, religion, and identity seem like they have been amplified.

By turning us against each other the %.1 have taken the heat off themselves. The super rich have decided to cash out what they perceive as their equity in the middle class, and they get away with funneling all of our wealth upward while we bicker and fight amongst ourselves.

soviet FSB komrade in Chelyabinks chuckles as his facebook post brought destruction to great States of America

Ofcourse it's a false flag, that is why people try to attack the establishment above individuals.

Analysis of post.

To the left: Not all on the right are the horrible people we think they are.

To the right: your news is worse than ours. Take the time to talk a communist and learn from them...

LOL so bias, but in a sneaky way

I guess you don't realize that anarchism (no government) and communism (government micromanages everything) are the extreme opposites of each other.

Communism is defined as a society with no class, state or compulsory financial system

Sales pitch verses observed operation.

LOL.. So who is going to redistribute and micro manage everything if Communism has no state? How does a society work without a financial system? Communism has been tried and still exists today. Does China, North Korea, Cuba have no state and no financial system, and no class segragation?

Read the Bread book if you want to see how a better version could work.

Spoiler Alert: Hundreds of millions will murderously die and you will end with authoritarian totalitarianism.

No, it's not. I'm an anarchist and communism is the farthest from anarchy you will find.

Hierarchies are essential for society to function and are part of the natural order. There are just and unjust hierarchies. Communism is an unjust hierarchy. You are advocating for the destruction of society and civilization.

You're conflating communism with capitalism when you talk about the parasites and rent seekers of society. Communism is not immune and infact more susceptible. You're also confusing authoritarianism with capitalism when you talk about criminalizing drug use. Also much more susceptible in Communism.

We probably have the same grievances and identify similar issues in society but I know Communism would only make things worse. And things could be much, much worse.

Holomodore.

No they're not, and your definitions of both are misrepresentations. You might want to read about the history of those movements because their histories are intertwined. Marx was influenced by Proudhon. Bakunin and Marx were contemporaries both involved in the broader socialist movements of Europe. Their goals were both liberation of the working class but had different ideas of how to achieve that.

your rant absolutely did come off as a lecture toward right-leaning individuals, i think you could shore up some credibility by rewording it to be more objective

Yeah I noticed that too. I rewrote what OP said and plan to share it like a shameless bastard, without the pro commie stuff. I lean left, but communism is bad.

The left and right wings of our generally unified oligarchy are getting better than ever at splitting us up and convincing us it's "red vs blue" instead of "us vs them." I see more and more people, especially on the far right and left getting giddy to hurt their fucking neighbors, and I gotta tell ya, whether you see our masters as shifty jews or conniving capitalists, whatever they are they're happier with us attacking each other instead of them.

To the people on the left, just remember not everybody in a red cap is a fascist. More often they're hardworking people that saw the same blatant corruption in our government you do, but out of desperation they made the mistake of trusting one wing of the machine that then pumped them full of fascist propaganda and got their fear, hatred and suspicion pointed at the poor, people of color and foreigners, anywhere but at the man behind the curtain.

To people on the right, please understand that not all people who support LGBQT rights are out to destroy the family unit, and a lot of self proclaimed communists are "useful idiots" who probably mean well, but are being used by fascists to achieve an end goal that will discard them shortly after they've outlived their usefulness. You understand a rich, "progressive" elite is manipulating our whole society, but what if I told you that doesn't automatically mean "The Democrats" like you learned in school? And you'll notice, despite all their drama and infighting, both parties in Washington readily agree on selling us out as whole for a surprisingly low price.

I know both sides have heard a lot of very nasty things about Democrats and Conservatives but I cannot recommend enough getting to understand their views. As long as you're polite about it, there are tons of forums online where you can talk to folks from either side who will respectfully disagree with you and explain their politics in whatever depth you let them get into. And even if you still disagree once you understand their side of the story, at least you'll be able to talk shit about them way better.

A great conflict is coming. Thanks to automation and several other factors the need for labor is going to rapidly decline and leave the ruling class of the USA with millions of ordinary people they have no idea how to feed, house or otherwise occupy themselves. Rather than having bored, hungry and desperate masses who might question the status quo, I think they'd rather us just kill us off in the most politically convenient way possible. And what better way than siccing us on each other? Just don't fall for it. We've come so far as a species and our wildest fantasies are so close to fruition. We could well get our shit together and go full Star Trek and conquer the stars as a functional group within a century. But if these fuckers win only the the most corrupt, awful people will survive; they'll destroy the planet in half that time and then whatever society that escapes this rock will be even more dark, depraved and corrupt than our ruling class is now. Don't let that happen y'all. Think for yourself, try to learn everything you can about the "other" and realize that you probably want the same things when all the propaganda is removed

Exactly.

I was on board until you went down the whole “communism isn’t bad” road.

I am genuinely enthusiastic to see how many people think along these lines. The only point I disagree with is that 'a great conflict is coming'. I've been alive almost fifty years and was part of the underground for many of those years. I believed in the eighties we were days away from a nuclear apocalypse. In the nineties I watched the rise of the black bloc globally and thought the culture war was sure to begin. Daily you can find dozens of reasons to worry (or hope) that change will come swiftly but I now doubt that will ever be true. I do believe that the power to change belongs to the majority. Dialog like this thread should encourage everyone to be kinder and more understanding of each other. In other words, don't take their bait. If we start there, change will happen everywhere.

Why do people from Communist countries risk their lives to get to non-Communist countries? Why isn't it the other way around?

But that's what ALL Commies say..'hurr durr true Communism has never been tried..'---well if so, WHY NOT?

ALL LEADERS are power-hungry dickbags. But just to enlighten you..if you get shot by your own border guards as you try to flee the country, you are living in a Communist country.

Those are horrible examples. Communism has killed over 100 million people, deal with it.

examples suck

Not my fault. Try harder, you damn Commie. https://ii.yuki.la/2/dc/ea1bdf0f16c2a37d88b3f0f7522432a3c8a2f46b71e2ef04533756e4046cbdc2.png

This post clearly has a left wing bias. "Fascist propaganda"? So wanting to have secure borders is fascist?

So it's fascist to enforce immigration laws? If you come into the country legally then you haven't nothing to worry about. Anyone who crosses into the country illegally is a criminal. Try crossing the border illegally into Mexico and they will treat you much worse than our law enforcement treats illegals

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/06/15/immigrants-mexico-abused-kidnapped/85798440/

"Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is punishable up to two years in prison. Immigrants who re-enter after being deported can face 10 years in prison. Mexicans who help illegals are considered criminals." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/3/mexicos-illegals-laws-tougher-than-arizonas/

Their laws are even tougher than the conservative state of Arizona, so yes it is in fact worse for illegals to cross into Mexico

I just pointed to prison sentences that are a lot worse than internment camps. You act as if internment camps are worse than 10 year prison sentences

You act as if they're concentration camps. Where else do you put the illegals to deport? Would you rather they be put in prison before being deported?

I'll say it again. Of all the shit posted here, I agree with this statement fully and it should be said everywhere. Go ahead and downvote me. Your downvote means absolutely nothing. How about you fucking dispute it. I fucking hate people. Great job OP

Nah the gene pool needs some chlorine now and then and the pool is looking mighty green now adays

Since I was told lurkers need to post more and I really appreciate OPs post. I really do hope people resist the division as a tactic and I also to share some knowledge from P. Look into it. Hegelian Dialectic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Hcd-b3aiU

go full Star Trek

for what it's worth, that's what the far right wants as well. i think the two sides just disagree about how to get there.

On the Left, you've got Star Trek, and on the Right, you've got Warhammer 40k.

The Trekkies think that people are basically good, that Space Communism is possible where people take only what they need (very little relative to what their machines produce), and that people will voluntarily work together under a Galactic Federation that is fundamentally non-violent and non-confrontational.

The Space Marines think that people are basically evil, that Space Fascism is the only way to survive in a world where people can summon planet-destroying horrors, that there are not enough resources for everyone to get what they want, and that the Imperium can only be preserved through violence.

For what it's worth, both sides have forgotten what it means to be free.

I generally just lurk and soak up the theories and info here With that being said.

THIS I appreciate seeing I'm not alone in these thoughts. Thank you.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bernie+sanders+together&amp;t=ffnt&amp;ia=videos&amp;iax=videos&amp;iai=C0wsUlzMBro

Those that lack impulse control will harm others in an attempt to snuff their ideology from their own periphery. Americans are diverse (not in a good sense). There are still minorities that think being violent is the only way to make a name for yourself. There are rich people that believe they will control the world some day. It's all a distraction from living in peace.

Unite under digital democracy. One vote per person, policy not politicians.

We can work this out together openly and without an elite, we have the technology.

This is called mob rule, and Plato wrote about why this is a bad idea.

Think 'America's got talent', but the winners control the tanks and nukes.

Plato didn’t have instantaneous information sharing, nor any concept of the possibility. He also probably wasn’t accounting for a few hundred representing millions, nor the socially destructive effects of billion dollar international corporations having a vested interested in subverting the growth of nation states.

Look into issue based democracy, as well as concepts like liquid democracy if you’re not ready for the open source everything trust your fellow man revolution. Any way you slice it, I trust open, discussed and decided on mob rule more than clandestine centralised powers promising to be nice to me.

We have bigger problems than stupid fucking identity politics. Soon, if things continue to get worse, more people are going to have to start waking up. There needs to be a systemic change at a fundamental level within our government, and if that doesn’t happen, the last resort is a revolution. There is so much corruption within our government that goes without notice. Either the majority of the population doesn’t care or everyone is blind and complacent, probably both. Our forefathers knew just how corrupt a government could become. Read some of these quotes: https://www.google.com/amp/s/freedomlawschool.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/freedom-quotes/amp/

Trump belongs to neither side. He ran as a republican for pragmatic reasons as they had the built structure and financing to run a national election.

The Culture War may well be a false flag attack, but that does not make the War any less real. If people deceived by the propaganda are going to attack you or your loved ones, you should protect yourselves. The motivations of the War are false, but the War is real.

The only ones waging a culture war are the left. So no it's not a false flag.

To lefties, just remember not everybody in a red cap is a fascist. More often they're hardworking people that saw the same blatant corruption in our government you do

Most Trump voters are members of the working class. They are passionate about issues that affect the working class, and they generally believe that the system is rigged against them. They're right to think this. Many of them want to take back their power from the elites. Some of them have been incensed to the point of being willing to take that power by force.

On the other hand, most socialists are members of the working class. They are passionate about issues that affect the working class, and they generally believe that the system is rigged against them. They're right to think this. Many of them want to take back their power from the elites. Some of them have been incensed to the point of being willing to take that power by force.

Get what I'm saying?

I'm a libertarian socialist. I used to hang out in r/the_donald until I was banned for supporting the kind of universal healthcare that Trump praised while campaigning in 2016. The typical users there are ABSOLUTELY potential allies to socialists in their goal of furthering workers rights, and many of them are totally down with progressive ideas like universal healthcare too. It's really kind of interesting, but if you can advocate for socialism without using the word "socialism", many Trump fans will think what you're saying is great. I can't tell you how many times I was upvoted in r/the_donald for saying things like "the workers need to seize their power back from the elites who rig the system against us all."

ps side note: I'm also permanently banned from r/socialism for saying things like "Trump voters are members of the proletariat too" and "the real enemy is the top 1% who use propaganda for class warfare to turn us against our fellow proles." Because there was many people directly advocating for literal domestic terrorism against these poor, working class people with no political power. I was also massively upvoted and gilded for those comments, but just like the r/the_donald mods who censored me, they banned regardless.

Duopoly.

Amen! The working class ends to unite against the 1% instead of bickering amount ourself a like a bunch of apes.

Exactly! To me both sides are bad yet it seems you have people who will fight tooth and nail to defend this ultra rich corrupt politicians against people like themselves. I just wish people would think for themselves instead of repeating the things they hear on the news. Then they would see how the media divides us so we fight each other and pay no attention to the true enemy.

I agree with you but I noticed something:

Libertarians are associated with the free market not Liberals. Liberals are associated with socialism. Only neo-Liberals support a free market between nations pushing us towards globalization.

What liberals are trying to trick people into thinking is they are any different then conservatives.

That's it, globalization is the real issue and by attacking ** THEM LIBERALS* * You are furthering their agenda.

For real. I can't stand the state of this sub anymore. So many ridiculous, click-baity posts with no basis.

The fact that .001% of people control half the world's wealth is the greatest conspiracy in the history of mankind, and we need to focus on correcting that. It's still too early for pitchforks, so we need to at least attempt to vote in representatives who are for term limits, making corporations and the wealthy pay what they owe to society, and a universal basic income.

SmallDetailsMatter

"to the left: the right are just clueless idiots who think they've made the right choice"

"to the right: the left's media may lie, but your media is worse"

seriously when I read that I made this face irl. yeah "don't make this a reght vs left issue, but I'm biased towards one side" smfh

No he's not he's just pointing out true facts. The basic point he's making out is that its inconsistent everybody expects "whites" to support a full mixed race worldwide yet laws and culture in most other countries do not support this idea and I guarantee you all other cultures wish to protect their culture as much if not more than white people. The proofs in the pudding, ever gone to China and been to English town where you can't see one white person??? The argument against this guy should be pushed against all races or maybe not pushed at all.

Exactly. I consider myself libertarian and am considered crazy from both the left and right. I believe that you should be able to freely live and do as you please as long as you aren't infringing on another persons right to do the same. If you aren't harming others then you should be left alone. This means I agree with both gay marriage and the right to bear arms. I believe that if we all quit thinking we need to make/regulate other people to do what we think they should be doing or force them not to do things we don't like we would be a much happier and cooperating society. Yet my position is the mocked and delusional position. Of course we need to do everything we can to force other people to act in a way that pleases us. I don't get this mentality. Live and let live.

Here you go CNN is openly deceptive and is no better than Fox news. To believe so is just succumbing to your biases.

The semantics of where CNN leans politically is not really relevant to the discussion of where they rank on the lie/deception scale. However, I will say that even the government will blow up their own building to make it look like they couldn't have possibly been involved so reporting on certain subjects doesn't prove they lean one way or the other either.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VIEW THESE EMAILS CITIZEN! WE THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH HAVE ALREADY CLEARED THEM AND WE CAN READ THEM BECAUSE WE ARE THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH BUT IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO DO SO

are you seriously asking this question? lmfao this sub and the anti jerk is too much fuck off

I think a pedophile would use the policy as an excuse.

Pedophilia is already illegal, inside the bathroom and out.

If you’re a real transgender, I doubt people would even notice them using it

Then it shouldn't be a problem now should it?

This Communist moron larping as a reasonable centrist is entertaining, but is also pretty much the exact origin of the current culture war that he is claiming to have a solution for.

It's the ultimate failure of capitalism. A free market does not protect against people breaking things to get a quick payout. Yeah, you will make more money in the long run if your business is successful, but look at the confidence man in charge of our government. He's made billions by not honoring his contacts and gutting out businesses/investors.

I didn’t say it was. That’s why the legislation part is unnecessary

Good mod.

Re number 4. Since the full-time minimum wage is below the poverty line, that employee then likely qualifies for federal benefits like food or housing assistance. At that point, the state is subsidizing the business by covering the cost of their low wages.

And she's a lot more likely to be accepted and married by whatever them minority half of her race is than the majority half is.

Ah, well she doesn't live in a backwoods rural slum, so I don't really foresee that being an issue. Maybe it's different where you are.

Just wait until you see the hard right of blacks and mexicans. You and your kids will feel the pain.

Yeah, turns out every group of people has some idiots in their ranks. What if I told you I wasn't going to have kids? Aw I know, it's such a shame, my blond hair/blue eyed Aryan genes won't be passed on. Oh well

There's hundreds of millions of babies in this world born from accidents. Only one takes one drop of male juice that is so small that it can't be seen easily to make a baby.

I see you understand the basic biology between sexual reproduction. I'm proud of you

https://i.imgur.com/C78RK9P.mp4

Communism with a state wouldn't be communism. It's a post-state theory. It's also supposed to be post-money so the idea of withholding wealth doesn't make sense. And even if it were possible, you don't need a state to deal with someone being violent. People aren't just going to sit back and not deal with it as it would be an attack on society as a whole.

That communism is ok?

Look at the fast food chain In-N-Out. They pay their employees well above minimum wage, provide other benefits, and try their best to retain workers and build loyalty. Because of this, they're known for having amazing customer service, and good food.

Try starting a fast food business now and see if you can pay your employees anything substantial.

Liberals argue about higher minimum wages, but then yell and corporations for being too big and evil. Even though higher wages only serves to squash small businesses. I really don't get it.

We can't exactly fight each other if we fix the problems with a sensible solution. Let's just spend a few more years making bathroom laws and screaming at each other over a problem that doesn't really exist.

FWIW I agree. I was jumping on a commenter that was like "hell yeah we should stop fighting each other and be all super chill and libertarian like me. Except for the liberties I don't personally benefit from, fuck those."

They always abuse the report function!

I’m sorry, man, but the people behind ANTIFA are bad folks who aren’t seeking unity or healing. Communists have killed far more people than Nazis over the years but they don’t get painted in the same light. Why do you think that is? It’s because communism is an absolutely ineffective, impossible system that never works because of human nature. It does, however, work wonderfully if the design is to disempower a country and create a population completely in the thrall of Big Government. We have limited government in this country. What makes you think a system where we give more power to a government is going to be better and not worse? This defies logic.

Look, I can tell you’re not one of them. But those people want to weaken our country so our people are so watered down and subjugated that they can do as they please. It’s not the folks being recruited. They just want to level the playing field for the rest of us. Those are just nice people who unfortunately think they can paint in broad strokes and find the easy enemy. It’s not that simple. There’s more going on.

Tainted. nice word. Your thinking is tainted bro.

The bathroom thing is about safety though, the safety of trans people just trying to fucking pee. I feel like people ignore how many issue it would create for a fully transitioned female to male person to use the women's restroom, or how dangerous it is for a male to female to use the men's room.

Yes, all right wingers are total brainwashed fools, cnn is mostly good and commies and anarchists are awesome and may even be willing to argue with you about how stupid you are.

Lol at this website.

Nice try.

Wow you are a being of pure enlightenment you actually don’t want to kill right wingers you just think they are morons.

What’s happening is that people’s only spectrum is that right wingers are either stupid or they want to kill them.

Nah son.

There is no fascist message to donald Trump.

Quit your bs.

Your the ones being brainwashed and it’s not “the rich” in general, it’s a certain group of the elites at a very high level who operate as organized crime.

You’ve correctly identified that they want us to fight.

What you haven’t realized is they do not support trump and are in fact afraid as hell of him.

Racism?

Your full of if. Concern about illegal immigration is not racism.

It’s not.

The real psy op is the idea that the cabal your referring to actually can control you and that the future isn’t bright.

This whole idea that automation is going to cause a massive struggle is total nonsense.

It’s not. The free market will sort that out just fine as it always has.

The economy is purposely crashed in order to buy up assets at a fire sale. They are just trying to convince us that the next crash is inevitable so they can attempt to implement communism/global governance.

It won’t work.

Also your example of outright lies from conservative media is nonsense.

No one knows how many illegal aliens may be voting but your a complete idiot if you don’t think many of them are.

Its extremely easy to get a license as in illegal immigrant and then your registered to vote.

There’s a damn seperate entrance at the rev in most states for immigrants.

They are given massive leeway with documentation. I’ve seen this with my own eyes.

You can buy all the fake documents you need to become a register voter.

You read websites like snopes and self refer to your own outlets to prove conservative media is lieing.

You can’t disprove a claim without evidence and there’s no hard proof that 3 million illegals are not voting.

The claim being made is that there is evidence that indicates around 3 million illegals may be voting,

You can debunk something that could be happening by saying there is not yet evidence for it.

The fact is, 90% of the media elites are absurdly against donald trump to a point of complete absurdity.

And you are all so brainwashed out there that you think handing out the olive branch of peace is calling right wingers deluded racists who don’t “know any better”.

If you understood economics you’d understand how this whole system works.

The right wing is fundamentally correct about the economy in its basic principles

The uniparty deep state takes away the wrong regulations and structures tax cuts in the wrong way to discredit the fundamental economic truth that a low tax low but smart regulation environment lifts all boats and will lead to economic growth and stability that continues.

That’s why the right is the punching bag, because the fundamental economic truths are on the right.

So theirs this injection of racism and wedge issues into the right and a ton of psy ops operating to make the right appear racist.

You're not following me. In the ancient sense of the word, hardship is freezing, starving, being eaten. This is what humans were made/designed/evolved for. Not bagging groceries to make rent payments.

Reporting this post is a rich man's trick. https://youtu.be/-QLrrzhfslg

Sounds libertarian enough to me.

One of my pet peeves is how the more niche political ideologies have to be so precisely defined in the eyes of most people, yet the mainstream movements can be so many different things.

For example, the Republican party includes deficit hawks and corporate welfare junkies. It includes pro-life and pro-family-planning groups. It includes rednecks and free-market economists. Yet they can all identify as Republican, thinking that words means very different things.

Yet if I say libertarian and disagree on say one point, like maybe I'm more of an environmentalist, then nope, I'm not a libertarian, go find another ideology? Screw that.

First off it’s already happened in a reportable case where the person got caught in most cases they won’t get caught and it still has not become accepted in society so there’s still plenty of scrutiny. Once that goes away, you will see it become a favorite method for rapists. It’s literally here you go rapists of young girls we just made it simple for you. No more snooping around parks looking creepy throw on a dress and some makeup and you can just go right in the locker room/bathroom and practically get high fives on your way to go look for someone to rape.

https://illinoisfamily.org/homosexuality/a-rape-survivor-speaks-out-about-transgender-bathrooms/

“Don’t they know anything about predators? Don’t they know the numbers? That out of every 100 rapes, only two rapists will spend so much as single day in jail while the other 98 walk free and hang out in our midst? Don’t they know that predators are known to intentionally seek out places where many of their preferred targets gather in groups? That perpetrators are addicts so committed to their fantasies they’ll stop at nothing to achieve them?

Do they know that more than 99 percent of single-victim incidents are committed by males? That they are experts in rationalization who minimize their number of victims? Don’t they know that insurance companies highlight locker rooms as a high-risk area for abuse that should be carefully monitored and protected?

Don’t they know that one out of every four little girls will be sexually abused during childhood, and that’s without giving predators free access to them while they shower? Don’t they know that, for women who have experienced sexual trauma, finding the courage to use a locker room at all is a freaking badge of honor? That many of these women view life through a kaleidoscope of shame and suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, dissociation, poor body image, eating disorders, drug and alcohol abuse, difficulty with intimacy, and worse?”

I don't know why /u/erietemperance even brings up the minimum wage because there are plenty of ways that businesses from huge corporations to small business already pay workers both less than minimum wage and less than what they even deserve.

Unpaid internships, monthly stipend internships, 1099'ing instead of hiring employees, outsourcing overseas to country with no min. wage and lower cost of living (ie, India and Pakistan for coding and places like Mexico and Phillipines for call centers, etc), paying under the table for illegal immigrants, etc.

Then lets look at wage theft and how much employers already steal free labor from employees https://i.redd.it/grnr8kxbl6zz.jpg

So any employer whining about the minimum wage is either dishonest or just a worse businessman than all the others that have plenty of work-arounds to squeeze more blood out of their employees.

Yeah, US politics have been shifting to the right for about 40 years.

so why are you pointing out that CNN retracted their stories and fox didn't retract theirs?

there is a figure or entity of authority in all those examples, and an extreme absence of any communist principles

I am just looking for a conservative's opinion on the clear and obvious differences between the 2 situations.

I guess you don't realize that anarchism (no government) and communism (government micromanages everything) are the extreme opposites of each other.

I don't need to elaborate, dude...The questions I have asked here couldn't be more clear.

I already told you that if you want, you can start over by addressing my questions here without the attitude.

I am not going to indulge this type of bizarre behavior. You can either address the questions, or don't and get blocked after refusing to do so. If you want to have a conversation, that's how communication is done, not with this weird harassment of yours. Your choice.

I never said pay as little as possible. There's something called benefit-cost ratio. If a job costs more than it's benefit, it will cease to exist. At a price as high as double what it is now, you can kiss between 25-50% of jobs goodbye. They just aren't demanding enough to warrant that pay. It's not a small business owner's fault that our government doesn't provide single payer healthcare. It's not their fault that people have no financial education of any form, and they aren't learning skills that have value in the new marketplace. And it's not their fault that automated workforces are already becoming cheaper than human labor. People laugh at the coal miners and cab drivers that are upset with market innovations, but forget that when jobs like checkout person become obsolete. You will destroy these jobs by raising the minimum wage, flat out.

No, it's from Dune.

No doubt.

I think the US system is fairly unique in that we love to talk about our freedoms but we still retain Puritan style values in some ways, and many see us as a Christian nation, but our politics shows that we worship wealth and power --- which I would argue are not pillars of Jesus' teachings.

I laugh at how the US and Australia differ.

Which one was founded by oppressed Christians and which one was a penal colony again?

Sounds to me like he just can't get women so he doesn't want those darn brown people taking them. If he can't have em nobody can.

your rant absolutely did come off as a lecture toward right-leaning individuals, i think you could shore up some credibility by rewording it to be more objective