The third thing you mentioned is a lot worse than the first two

(by that I mean accusing someone of being an anti-semite just because they criticized the government of israel)

I'm Jewish and I think that criticism of Israel is welcome, but the overwhelming majority of such criticism is dripping with antisemitism that only comes to the front after a few comments are coaxed out of the poster. On this subreddit in particular it strongly feels that criticism of Israel is primarily based in antisemitism, not genuine critique of their government.

Agreed. I despise the casual anti-Semitism of the web, support the existence and defense of the state of Israel, support the ancestral homeland and capitol of the Jewish people, and respect the Mossad. That said, our ally is not perfect, and is not perfectly our ally in all its actions.

Do you support Israels genocide of the Palestinian people?

The population of Palestine is less than 5 million people. If Palestinian genocide was anything more than a buzzword, it would be history already.

It's more accurately termed ethnic cleansing. And if you want to use numbers, Israel's attacks on Palestine have been nothing short of one-sided massacres against a defenseless people. This is as close to genocide as you can get.

That's interesting, because the Palestinian charter calls destruction of Israel as a founding principle. It's in writing, and since Iran really runs Palestine through their surrogate Hamas, that's unlikely to change, since it's Iran's stated policy as well. Show me where that's reciprocated in Israeli doctrine. Nevermind, you can't.

It's unfortunate for Palestine that Iran and other regional players use them this way. They're really just a pawn and a convenient political wedge Islamists use to indoctrinate idealistic college sophomores and religious mothers who think a bomb vest will get their child into heaven.

It's not Israel's fault that fighting a multi generational conflict on several fronts has made them, out of necessity, better than their neighbors at security and warfare.

I don't know how old you are, but I remember when Palestinians were detonating bombs on buses and busy cafés. They were effective in terrorism. In response the Israelis erected checkpoints. Plane and ship hijackings led to the best port and customs security on the globe. When the rocket attacks came, they built the Iron Dome. Now the Palestinians are reduced to random stabbings, but Israel has built a very effective wall, so there are increasingly fewer insurgents able to penetrate their defenses.

Israel cannot afford to take their security lightly. When they are hit, they hit back harder. The bloodied aggressor then says it's not fair, but they never seem to learn their lesson. So they probe and try another angle, and Israel puts more security controls in place, to cries of oppression.

It's a farce. The truth is, if Palestine and the regional players, like Iran, who work through Palestine were better than Israel at espionage, security, and warfare, there would be no Israel.

And yes, Israel receives a lot of fiscal and intelligence help from the USA, but until the day come when Israel is not an island of stable democracy in a sea of warlords and theocrats, that's unlikely to change.

The Likud party themselves were terrorists. I don't know how old you are, but I remember the bombings againt defenseless children in Gaza.

Pretty much everything you're saying is one-sided Israeli propaganda where obviously very little research was done regarding the war crimes, destruction, massacres, etc. were done against Palestine. But that doesn't shock me since it's the norm for antisemites to dehumanize the Palestinians just like this 'oh well they deserve it!'

Well, I suppose it's to be expected that I might be called an antisemite by a homophobic racist misogynist such as yourself. It doesn't phase me. By the way, when did you stop beating your wife?

But seriously, get real. Everything I said in my previous post is true. Palestine is the aggressor, and they suffer for it. They should probably rethink their strategy of trying to wipe Israel off the map. Otherwise, as the saying goes, you mess with the bull, you get the horns.

Try researching using UN sources, human rights groups/activists or more impartial parties like Norman Finkelstein. Your only source seems to be the Israeli government's press releases.

The UN is a joke. They're so grotesquely biased against Israel they placed Saudi Arabia on a human rights council. What a hoot!

And activists? You'd suggest bleeding heart activists as an unbiased source? No thanks. I'll stick with the standard variety of mainstream sources as I have for decades. Fewer of them have warped into apologists for expansionist islamism, as you have.

Not the the UN is infallible, but they did have some fair sources. But pretty funny that you reference Saudi Arabia as an example that they are corrupt when they are an Israeli ally. Talk about expansionist Islamism. Have fun continuing to support terrorist states and spreading their propaganda.

That is funny, because the Saudis have aligned with Israel because they have a common enemy, Iran! The same Iran who is the leading state sponsor of terrorism. And who does that state sponsor of terror work through as a base of operations to attack Israel? Palestine!

That's neither an exoneration of Saudi Arabia, nor an indictment of Israel. If Israel ever starts behaving like the Saudis, you better believe I'll condemn it. I certainly am dubious of the partnership, but maybe it will help the Saudis grow up and get out of the dark ages.

I do not support the Palestinian genocide of Israeli Jews. Murders of either side by the other are criminal.

Wars of defense are horrible, but justified. Israel has been more than tolerant of a thorn in its side, but missiles and mortars are not a valid form of protest, and international law (applied non-prejudicially) supports Israel's wars of defense. Rocket launchers on/in apartments and hospitals are against the Geneva Conventions for a reason.

I am a bitter critic of Israel's horrific policies - but there's a lot of out-and-out anti-semitism here too. If there's one thing that makes me to be embarrassed to be on here, it's that.

Thanks, it is of a growing concern. Also thank you for not wanting to censor them. You are addressing the issue as it should be addressed with counter point and reason.

Defend your post. Explain to the partisans as to why the partisanship is a con. Explain as to why it is so. chisel away at their own ideology they will have the seeds planted. The doubt will grow. They will question. Though it might not show.

You can get a blog and ban people from posting but you can't expect to use a public website as your own personal soapbox and ban people from responding.
If people actually come at you with weak arguments you can use that as an opportunity to dismiss your opposition by pointing out where they are wrong.

"Making things less partisan" is different than stopping people from replying to your posts. You're saying that all opposing views should be silenced so that the conversation will be more polite.

Listen, when you think you can understand another person's motivations based on your own that is called projection.
You don't have to believe me and it doesn't matter. I'm certain that debate and discussion is welcome here and that "snowflakes" on either side of whatever partisan issue won't be allowed to post something and then ban debate.
If something is off topic, don't reply to it. "Don't feed the trolls," is still good advice. If someone disagrees with you and you feel it's because they have different beliefs, show they're wrong.
The other thing is that it's a good idea, to keep from getting too brainwashed, to occasionally listen to people with other points of view.

I did not say that "sidetracking threads with partisanship is a good thing." When you set up an argument that the other person didn't make and then argue against it, that is called the straw man fallacy.
I agree that people that put their "team" above all else are a problem, but when they make a statement that doesn't make sense or is false it's pretty easy to counter or ignore it.
Don't take the bait. They don't win even if they get the last word.

You're going way out in the tall grass on this one buddy. People who post here are going to have different political beliefs and will be more conservative or liberal. If they actually go off topic you can ignore them, downvote them, and move on.
I wish people stayed on topic, but look, you're talking about pokemon and fishing. That is not what this is about. It's about "I want to say that X is Y and I don't want anyone to tell me that X is not Y because they have different beliefs."
You can not do that in a public forum that allows anyone with a computer and an Internet connection to participate. You're going to get trolls, shills, morons, and even people that just happen to disagree, and that's the price you pay for being able to talk to people from all over the world, from all kinds of different backgrounds. The more control you have the less participation. That's why I said you can write whatever you want on a blog, "Bill Clinton is from Mars and btw, he is the Antichrist" and then if someone starts talking about "Melania Trump is a reptilian and eats babies," you can block that person. But you may not get as many views as you do on a popular subreddit on a very popular site. That's how it goes.

The opposite situation is still a problem on this sub. There are a fair number of users that are very consistently on-message with one party, but will bullshit you and say they're non-partisan. Even more annoying when they're defending the party they always do and pull the "why are you picking sides, there are no sides" card when someone takes an opposing position.

And I imagine you're more annoyed by the ones you disagree with. But so what? The point is to stick to the topic. Ad hominem attacks just muddy the waters.

I would make a post saying how all these posts specifically complaining about posts are annoying but that would Be annoying now too? Wouldn't it? Let's just all bring it up how we are divided and maybe somehow we'll find some common ground...

Is that a problem that needs fixed though?

Hm, I probably seem guilty of this. I criticize Democrats on this sub more often. But, it's not like I support Republicans or Trump. But when there are criticisms to be made about the Right, the front page of Reddit is already full of said criticism, I have nothing to ad. Criticizing Democrats is more difficult on this website, so that just ends up being what I feel the need to comment on.

I'm sure there are malicious users like you say, but it's also intellectually lazy to assume anyone who disagrees with you is malicious.

Is it possible that in this moment in history, one party is doing more that is worthy of criticism than the other?

Progressive here. It is undoubtedly the case that the Republicans are particularly messing things up right now. But please note that the Democrats are also doing a terrible job.

Note Chuck Schumer crowing over the fact that their budget proposal increases the US military budget by $80 billion more than even Trump asked for - that's enough to pay for free college for every student in the United States. Note that the same Democrats who perpetually accuse Trump of being unhinged just voted to authorize essentially oversight-free warrantless spying by the executive branch.

Eight years of Obama, and what did we get? No bankers went to jail. There wasn't even an investigation into how the American public got fed lies to bring them into the Iraq War. Americans are still fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a whole bunch of new skirmishes and outright wars started, particularly the awful one in Libya. I could go on and on - we needed a home run and we didn't even get a base hit.

I have to say that in my heart, I believed that Hillary Clinton would have moved to war with Russia almost recently, based on her own belligerent statements on the matter, and based on her long public record of "never saw a war she didn't like". For all the terrible things that Trump has done, a war between two nuclear powers would have been far worse.

So what's the point of #resisting Trump if we go back to another militarist, pro-Wall Street, anti-worker Democratic administration?

Brilliant derailment. I am no match for you.

It isn't a mistake that the successful (non-political) subs have super stringent rules about no politics, AT ALL. They remove anybody's comment or post that is partisan related.

Somebody (in a successful sub) will say: "Well, my idiot dad who can't shut his mouth about the particular man in the white house".. etc. They get removed instantly, and for good reason. Every single discussion spawned from a comment referencing a single whiff of partisan politics devolves into a maniacal dialog between people you don't know or care about. It almost never, and I mean nevvvvver arrives at some conclusion. It's just walls and walls of bullshit, that for me is totally and 100% meaningless to begin with! And, unfortunately, the mods here do not care about policing this issue, which kills almost any other sub that allows it. In my opinion, it's really this simple: a new sub for PoliticsConspiracy must be created, and posted on the side bar, and the mods need to step up and clean house of any partisan-based threads, period, end of story.

These people can have their own sub to bitch back and forth at each other. I can guarantee most people who come here do not give a fuck about this endless L-R nonsense, and the bullshit that goes on that they claim is "conspiracy", when it isn't. It's just fucking politics.

It isn't a mistake that the successful (non-political) subs have super stringent rules about no politics, AT ALL. They remove anybody's comment or post that is partisan related.

All the sports subs do it.

Wait... So you think conspiracy should not focus on politics? What would be the conspiracy without government?

Partisanship is a tool that is used to get popular support for the suppression of speech and other rights.

"If you don't agree to be oppressed by us, they'll oppress you even worse!"

Basically, voting for the lesser evil ensures that you're always voting for evil. They make us complicit in our own subjugation by forcing us to choose from evil option #1 and evil option #2.

Good, let it.

And when the Truth comes out, both Republican and Democrat parties can die the death they've earned for themselves!

And I shall not weep for them.

Yeah I'm sure you think that you republicrat

Removed. Rule 10

They know that. It is purposeful and by design

Good message. Too much of that on here both ways. It is detracting from the core conspiracy.

What is the core conspiracy?

um, u/naturalproducer, can you post a general reply to this comment? I have a theory I want to test. Spoiler

I criticize trump a lot in this sub, so many people assume I just loooooooool hilary. I dont. I hate her just as much, bit she isn't president. She's not affecting the lives or news cycle the way trump is, so he gets brought up a lot. Not to mention the people that protect trump at all cost on here are just irrational.

I hope this gets more attention as it’s likely those people who need to hear it most are the ones who won’t see it.

At a certain point, all of you will see the truth. You can keep pretending both sides are the same all you want. But in the end, the truth always comes out.

i agree with you, i can never ask the left a simple question, not in a derogative manner, and all i get is yelled at or called names. There is no discussion to be had. Thank you for saying such.

I don't yell at people so I'd converse with you civilly. It sucks when people talk to you like a child or something

thank you, have a nice eve. :)

:)

i feel the same about the right. exactly the same...but.... i don't mean to accuse you personally of anything. just an example that we could all do a better job of listening regardless of our personal opinions. (which i think we all choose to push towards one side or the other, myself included)

i genuinely enjoy discussing these things with strangers, if anyone ever wants to argue (civilly!) with The Left i gladly volunteer. i don't think our society will get anywhere as long as we refuse to engage!!

i feel the same about the right. exactly the same...but.... i don't mean to accuse you personally of anything. just an example that we could all do a better job of listening regardless of our personal opinions. (which i think we all choose to push towards one side or the other, myself included)

i genuinely enjoy discussing these things with strangers, if anyone ever wants to argue (civilly!) with The Left i gladly volunteer. i don't think our society will get anywhere as long as we refuse to engage!!

thank you, i admit to not being very knowledgable i collect dots, all i ask is why is this wrong or something simple as that . Mainly i disagree w much of the left platform, and i will never change my thinking on some things, but that has to do w my faith, but the other things should be civily discussed by those at the top and it never is because they do tit for tat, blackmail ea other blah blah, i could never be a politician for those reasons alone! :) Have a great day. be safe.

Assuming someone is a Yank is just as bad.

Assuming someone is a dem or a rep is worse.

It's funny in a way because I don't support either side of the aisle at this point.

It's almost like a joke when I get "accused" of supporting one side or the other because these people can't even fathom that someone might not be a supporter of either.

It's all one giant shitshow of corruption and deception.

Who would want to support the corporate hijacking of our representative democracy? What a joke.

Wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't to some degree, but I still see this come out in real life conversions as well.

Exactly. You're either corrupt or you're marginalized and not in dc very long. Normalized corruption. But don't worry, it's only bad when the other side does it.

It's obvious that you are a hil-bot trumpet demopublican. You are causing so much partisanship that you have morphed into a 4 dimensional tesseract of politics. An individual who hates both parties and supports both parties at the same time. I know it's hard for most people to wrap their heads around this because it's a 4 dimensional concept, but just trust me, you are the problem. /s

I too am a moderate. I have my leanings on certain issues, but my overall view matches neither republican, Democrat, libertarian, neocon, neolib, green, etc etc. The moment I comment in support of an issue, I'm immediately labeled.

The funny thing is that the first part of this comment is kinda true. Us moderates (for lack of a better term), or maybe we could be called "independent thinkers", or maybe "people who weigh the facts and form their own opinions on each issue", or maybe "people who don't blindly follow politicians". Us moderates really are tesseracts. It sure seems like a lot of people can't understand how someone could support building a wall, but not be a Trumpet. Or how we could support universal healthcare and not be socialist, or how we can support DACA, but not be a libtard. (All of these are examples, they do not necessarily represent my views).

My point is the same as OP. PLEASE, do America a favor, consider each issue and form your own opinions. It's okay to agree with points made on each side. It's okay to admit that you're not sure what the best course of action is. It's okay to come up with a unique idea that no one has considered. Last, it's okay to not identify with any political party at all.

My belief is that there are a lot of power hungry, greedy people that love that we are all fighting about stupid little issues. They keep us stuck on these issues so we don't actually get to the real issues that can actually facilitate peace and wealth among the lower and middle class.

(I'm prepared for people to immediately label me for what I just wrote, that's fine)

showusthememo

Both sides of the aisle have their fair share of corrupt idiots.

Corruption is not a binary, it's a spectrum. Some people are more corrupt than others. The statement "They're ALL corrupt" is drawing a false equivalence between those who take money from special interests and offer relatively little in return vs those who are placed into positions of power by corporations they formerly worked for or those who are outright bought by foreign governments. "They're all corrupt" offers nothing to the conversation and steers genuine criticism away from those who deserve it. It paints the entire government the same color when it's actually dramatically distinct shades of grey.

There is another side of this where blatant anti-semites post articles and make comments and use an article that is appropriately anti Israel to make their point.

Did you read my reply or did you just see the word Israel and decide to shit post? I said, "use an article that is appropriately anti-Israel to make their point" i.e. when Israel does something actually wrong or even when they do something right, the anti semites come out in droves.

For an example: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7are4e/comment/dpc65z5

Yeah, plus people creep through your post history. which is really fucking creepy.

I said something about the Russia stuff being stupid, and I prefaced it with me not being a trump supporter. Some people looked through my stuff and called me out because I have posted there a couple times. I also posted on Jill steins, bernie, tulsi, etc... I'm a trump lover, because I don't cover my ears and scream Russia and racist. I guess I'm crazy for interacting with people that I don't whole heartedly agree with. I'm a racist libtard fascist cuck.

You're right, trying to understand the history and context of a statement is creepy. Why does anyone ever think of what someone did or said in the past to contextualize what they're doing currently? What a bunch of creeps.

Well I think it's the idea of someone combing through your post history simply to post a better zinger, it's just odd. How often does reading someone's arguments about hockey and their bong collection allow "greater context" into the person's views?

There are some benign reasons but most times I imagine post history creeping is done to steer the conversation into a realm the creeper finds more comfortable.

At least being libertarian has it's benefits. I can watch the fight and not have to take sides.

The Libertarian Party is hated by Ds and Rs, but that's because the uniparty hates all third party options. I'm a left libertarian, and I'm not welcome among most libertarian communities because they tend to be dominated by ancaps and other assholes who are glad to see workers getting fucked over.

I honestly thought an anti-partisan line of thought was kind of the point of the sub, criticize both sides but never drink the kool aid.

the OP either hasn't a clue or is trolling.

Divide and conquer.

Yeah The true conspiracy heads recognize the Establishment politicians are the real enemy and all the other stuff is just Pro wrestling in suits.

is the title worded correctly !?

"anti-partisan sentiment"

you might want to understand english and the words you use.

I wish we could just agree that, like, they all fucking suck. The DNC sucks. Trump sucks. Hillary sucks. Congress sucks. Obama sucks. Bush sucks. McCain sucks. we could go on and on for decades. The people making the decisions in American politics suck!

there are people with pussy hats and MAGA hats who ultimately have the same anger and resentment towards the state of the US. i will even go so far as to say that the ideologies of both antifa and the alt-right stem from the very same anger.

our politicians literally shut down our government because they can't make a damn agreement. I don't think that's because their partisan voting bases can't agree. I think we are better than that. I think that we, the people, have more in common than our leaders like to think.

we can do a better job at sitting down with our neighbors (whether in real life or cyberspace) and dissecting our differences in ideology. i guarantee the vast majority of us want comfort, safety, and most of all liberty--for ourselves and every fellow human being. the disagreements lie in our biases that the Big Guys built. we can't sit around arguing me versus you any longer.

it's us versus them.

Politics is the distraction from you being your own savior in your community. You place labels on yourself, you hold onto identities, and these suck the LIFE out of you!!! JUST DO YOU AND MAKE THEIR CONTRADICTIONS OBSOLETE!

I would love to see this go right to the top.

Actually, what I would like to see is for it to get so hot that Reddit crashes and someone - anyone has to admit why it did - because of popular support for objectivity.

This partisan nonsense is the root of most of Reddit rabbit holes and shit-posts.

Who is this topic for? You think these people don't know they're a part of the problem? They come here specifically to be a problem. That is the full reason for why they're here. Many of them are paid to troll us, just to create a toxic environment in this community. They'd be glad to hear that their efforts to cause strife are getting to you.

I guess it's good to directly address this publicly like this though. Helps ensure that everyone is on the same page and realizes that bad actors are doing this shit. But don't for one second think that the bad actors don't realize they're being destructive. It's on purpose.

It's becoming more and more evident that the dems were busy sabotaging Trump as he was coming into the White House. That doesn't make people who point that out Trump supporters. It just means that for those of us who like evidence, the Russia thing is arguably dead on arrival.

Is it possible that in this moment in history, one party is doing more that is worthy of criticism than the other?