Thanks, will save this for further ammunition.

Do you understand how science works?

What do you mean?

Do you? Do you really think science is a infallible institution that has no agenda? Do you understand how secret societies work? Do you understand how knowledge is power and do you know who holds the power? We have been completely deceived and the truth will set is free.

Don’t try and get in the way of good people trying to free the masses from their mental cages.

Science isn't an institution, it's a method. State your hypothesis, show your evidence, work up to proof.

If the method is followed, it doesn't matter whether it's a scientist in a federally funded lab, or a student in a university, or a guy at home with a pen, paper and some mathematics.

If the work is valid, and the conclusion supports the evidence then I trust it.

I’m not saying all science is bad. Science is not an institution but it is used by institutions to deceive the masses. When Science is used to enforce a political agenda; one should be very cautious in trusting the information it produces.

We have all seen this agenda at play. Let us not pretend science has not been used against us.

one should be very cautious in trusting the information it produces.

That's my point. Regardless of institution, if the evidence is empirical and measurable and the results can be reproduced then it is trustable.

Just because it can be reproduced means nothing if the data used to make conclusions is faulty to begin with.

if the evidence is empirical and measurable

There is nothing empirical in a quantum reality. Light can exist as a particle and a wave simultaneously. The intent of the scientist can actually skew the results. This is proven in the double split experiment in quantum physics.

There is nothing empirical in a quantum reality

So why should I trust any of your claims about the universe being a quantum reality?

It’s only real if you believe!! I am not the only one who has discovered this. It’s been written in ancient texts and quantum physics is only rediscovering this universal truth. Don’t take it from me. Look yourself.

It’s only real if you believe!!

I find this incredibly ironic in a post about science, facts and truth.

I need to read up on quantum mechanics even though every time I try I just get lost in the weeds. There's so much fundamental science you need to have knowledge of just to be able to get a grasp on the big picture.

Sometimes I wish I were smarter. Oh well.

Look at the experiments that suggest what a scientist believes will happen actually affect the results of the experiment.

You are plenty smart enough to understand whatever you want. You already have the truth in your subconscious mind. You just have to unlock it. Don’t get caught in the weeds. try alternative methods.

Many of the most brilliant minds had “Eureka” moments where the answer they were looking for just came to them in an instant. I find meditation helpful.

It’s important to use both hemispheres of your mind. It looks like you have a sound scientific mind, but also use your creative side to help unlock the wisdom.

You literally just named an example of empirical evidence in quantum mechanics...

Yet the evidence suggests that nothing is truly empirical!! It’s the ultimate mind fuck, but such is life!

No, that's not what the evidence suggests, you're massively misrepresenting quantum mechanics. Something being probabilistic does not mean that it's not empirical.

I disagree

What do you base your understanding of quantum mechanics on? I've actually talked to a fair number of theoretical physicists and I don't think I've ever come across someone who shares your theory.

Nope not proven. The very fact that the observer effect is a thing means that measurement is implied. Why the hell wouldnt measuring small systems interfere with the natural state of things.

See pilot waves for another viable theory, which incolves aether, also which has NOT been disproven.

I can talk a lot more about this and have official schooling on modern physics. Feel free to PM me as well.

So do you believe that light can exist as a particle and a wave simultaneously? Is plasma the aether that the ancient philosophers spoke about? Is our universe driven by Newtonian principles or is it truly quantum and electric in nature. Both? Is there objective reality or is life a quantum dream? What say you good sir?

Obviously I have my opinions, but I’d like to hear yours.

The intent of the scientist can actually skew the results. This is proven in the double split experiment in quantum physics.

The double-slit experiment has absolutely nothing to do with intent, the photons in the experiment aren't changing their behavior because of the intent of the observer. It's because in order to take any sort of data about an object you have to physically interact with that object, what the double-slit experiment found was that physically measuring the properties of a photon switches the photon from having the properties of a wave to having the properties of a particle. It isn't intent that changes its behavior, it's having the photon interact with another physical object.

[removed]

Intent affects results? I believe it does.

Again, in order to observe a particle, you have to physically interact with it. Interaction in order to measure quantities is what is being referred to as "observation" in the article you linked and that interaction is what collapses the wave function and makes photons act like particles.

Also, the placebo effect,

The brain controls the entire body, why do you need some sort of "quantum nature" for it to be able to affect how the body works?

The brain is a quantum electric computer and DNA acts more like a receiver than a coder. Our brain is like an antenna that picks up consciousness and we are capable of picking up different frequencies that contain higher knowledge. I have experienced this personally and their is scientific evidence that suggests this is the case as well.

That's not what I asked. I asked why it's necessary to add an entirely separate system to explain something that is already suitably explained by the brain being in control of all functions of the physical body.

The heart controls the brain. I’m telling you, Science is still working on this issue. We don’t have all the answers. There is so much more to learn.

It's not the "intent," or you later claim of "belief". It's the observation. Imagine if the only way you could observe what a beach ball was doing was throw another beachball at it. Obviously this would skew the outcomes since you are throwing beachballs around and messing with the beachballs you're observing. This is the same with photons.

This is the link I meant to post

What do you guys think?

Mainstream science? yes, its the opposite of real science.

So what's real science in your opinion?

Basically modern mainstream science, every field, is the same as for profit healthcare, or for profit prisons, or the american cancer society, or the american diabetes association or the mainstream media... the opposite of what they claim to be... flawed, corrupt, for profit, full of lies, twisted by agendas, and has absolutely nothing to do with objective truth or the true practice of the scientific method.

Look at modern archaeology for example, mainstream archaeologists, have been involved in the active cover up of our true history and origins in ancient Egypt, South America, the whole planet, under the guise of "science". Shout out to "Wise Up" youtube channel.

If you're going to seriously claim that every field of modern science is for-profit, corrupt and agenda-driven then I don't think we can have any sort of discussion.

If you are cormfortable making a generalisation of that magnitude then...I don't know man.

Have a good day.

I agree, thanks and have a good one.

So like.. How you couldn't understand that the sky looks different in different places?

lol

Then no, you don't know how science works.

suck my dick brother

^This comment right here is a perfect example of how to 'control the discussion/narrative'. We have an OP with hundreds of links and articles and this guy comes in, ignores all of that and comes with a trollish catch-all remark like 'do you even understand science bro?'...

...Effectively steering the discussion away from the main post and dragging it down to a level where he and his comrades can chime in. We need to be aware of this stuff folks.

Fucking, lol.

Holy cow, what a collection. Saving this for later. Thanks!

Pretty awesome man. Shills gonna have a hard time debunking this one. Thy most likely won't waste their time, though, and will just call flat earthers idiots.

That's basically the point of gish gallop.

Pretty easy to pick individual points and watch it crumble

Your inability to not understand science is not an excuse to dismiss scientific facts. Just because you dont understand something that doesnt mean it is true.

Ah yes, good scientific statements like "The lunar lander is a piece of crap"

The guy you replid too... never mind

I don't waste my time with gish gallops, sry

Wait, the moon landings were fake.. Nooooo wayyyyyy..

/s

Nice, brilliant post

Awesome post. Don’t know how people are still buying it.

Don’t know how people are still buying it.

You mean buying the crazy idea of science? People figured out the earth wasn't flat before electricity was even fucking invented...using a god damn telescope.

I have nothing to say to you other than scroll back up and refer to the post. If you think someone has ever ‘figured out that the Earth wasn’t flat’, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Are you insinuating that the earth is flat?

Forgive me, I've never actually engaged with flat earth arguments before. But what do you think about some of the classical proofs of the circumference of the earth? Have flat earth advocates attempted to recreate these calculations? It seems to me that this whole argument would be far better served by relying on mathematics than anti-NASA conspiracies -- it's almost always possible to accuse NASA of lying, but not so much math. And I don't see how either of the following can reasonably be denied by someone who hasn't done the work to recreate them and prove they're incorrect.

Abu Rayhan Biruni (973–1048) used a new method to accurately compute the Earth's circumference, by which he arrived at a value that was close to modern values for the Earth's circumference.[59] His estimate of 6,339.6 km for the Earth radius was only 31.4 km less than the modern mean value of 6,371.0 km.[60] In contrast to his predecessors, who measured the Earth's circumference by sighting the Sun simultaneously from two different locations, Biruni developed a new method of using trigonometric calculations based on the angle between a plain and mountain top. This yielded more accurate measurements of the Earth's circumference and made it possible for a single person to measure it from a single location.[61][62] Biruni's method was intended to avoid "walking across hot, dusty deserts," and the idea came to him when he was on top of a tall mountain in India. From the top of the mountain, he sighted the angle to the horizon which, along with the mountain's height (which he calculated beforehand), allowed him to calculate the curvature of the Earth.[63][64] He also made use of algebra to formulate trigonometric equations and used the astrolabe to measure angles.[65]

and more famously but less accurately

Eratosthenes, a Greek astronomer from Hellenistic Libya (276–194 BC), estimated Earth's circumference around 240 BC. He had heard that in Syene the Sun was directly overhead at the summer solstice whereas in Alexandria it still cast a shadow. Using the differing angles the shadows made as the basis of his trigonometric calculations he estimated a circumference of around 250,000 stades. The length of a 'stade' is not precisely known, but Eratosthenes's figure only has an error of around five to fifteen percent.[25][26][27] Eratosthenes used rough estimates and round numbers, but depending on the length of the stadion, his result is within a margin of between 2% and 20% of the actual meridional circumference, 40,008 kilometres (24,860 mi). Note that Eratosthenes could only measure the circumference of the Earth by assuming that the distance to the Sun is so great that the rays of sunlight are practically parallel.[28]

both from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

I can't tell if you're for real. Do you believe GPS doesn't exist? Or, wait, do you think the stars in the southern hemisphere aren't different from the ones in the north? omg, do you think stars aren't real? are they just lightning bugs that got stuck on the the bluish black thing? Have you never seen the ocean?

Man, all of these satellites up there and not a single picture?

Google images "satellites in low earth orbit" and prepare to wake up.

I mean, I can see the iridium satellites by their glare when the light hits them right, and the ISS passes overhead regularly, so part of this is just not paying attention on your part.

For other satellites, I have to wonder what people think they ought to see. Most satellites orbit at anywhere from 200km to a couple thousand kilometers out, and most of them are small, no bigger than a car. I have to wonder if people really imagine they'd be able to see an unlit car from 200-thousands of kilometers away at night, even if it was planted on a flat earth.

I just want a picture, ISS not included

Well, you could make a timelapse of the night sky - you don't even need particularly fancy equipment for that. You'd get something like this:

Geostationary Satellites

Here's a similar one with the specific satellites indicated, so you can look up the publically released orbits and whether their position matches up with the claim.

Geostationary Satellites II

Here's amateur astrophotographers making their own pictures of various satellites, including the ISS & various spacecraft. Can't fake something that random people can do in their backyard.

Amateur Footage

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Can I ask you a question? How do you take a picture of a satellite? It's in low earth orbit. Furthermore, even if it was easy to take a picture of something in low earth orbit, why would you? What's the point? Trying to prove to some uneducated American that satellites are real? Waste of time and money.

Haha well I just thought there were thousands flying around and that it wouldn't be too much of a task to shut all of us up for all time by producing a simple picture. It wouldn't take much time or money.

How do you take a picture of a satellite? Are you saying it would be impossible?

No not impossible just a waste of money. Besides someone else already linked to some actual pics of satellites from hobby astronomers.

If you ever had to set up a satellite dish to receive television you would realize that to say they don't exist is absurd.

The idea NASA and modern space agencies incoporate lies and CGI is distinct from flat earth. I think the earth is round, for instance, but also am of the experienced and knowledgable opinion that some of the soace footage youve seen is down right comouter generated and/or augmented reality.

Sure, it's a rabbit hole and I dont expect this is easy to swallow. Its true though.

So where does all the money go?

black projects

Gotta post the original song. "Masonic Moon" by The Elders of Zion.

I'm usually ok with this sub, even frankly most of the stuff listed I wouldn't mind talking about... But flat earth... Holy fuck just no

Why do people think that everyone exposing the lies of NASA are flat earthers?

NASA is lying but it’s foolish to assume the earth is flat just bc NASA is full of shit.

Because they're one in the same. NASA is not a fraud. The only way you can call NASA a fraud is if you also say the earth is flat.

Wrong NASA is a fraud and the earth is a quantum simulation. They are selling a lie and you know it!

Who cares what shape the earth is?

Being a simulation does not make NASA a fraud anymore than you are a fraud...

Wrong. NASA is promoting a false paradigm. I am trying to expose that. There is nothing fraudulent about trying to get to the truth my friend!

Im pretty sure you're a troll at this point.

Screen name check out!

Nice analysis, Dr. Derp!

NASA is a fraud and the earth is a quantum simulation.

Show your math.

Seek your own truth. Don’t rely on secret cults to give you the answers.

Seek your own truth. Don’t rely on secret cults to give you the answers

Make up shit and claim it as fact and refuse to show your work when asked to.

There are some resources in the OP that might help you realize you have been lied to. I can’t and won’t change your mind. If you want truth seek it, if not just keep doing what your doing.

Answer the question.

What question?

show your math

1+1= whatever you believe it equals thus believe in good over evil, love your neighbor as yourself, and be the change you want to see in the word

Mhmm

Also there are several space programs around the globe. Are they all in on the hoax?

You don’t understand how these things work. The people that work for these agencies are highly compartmentalized and they never see the bigger picture.

All they need to do to maintain the hoax is to make sure the astronauts who do go into lower earth orbit keep their mouths shut. With NASA, every single astronaut that went into LEO was a Mason. As you should know, the Masons are a secret society and they keep secrets and hide knowledge.

Use your common sense and stop being deceived!

All they need to do to maintain the hoax is to make sure the astronauts who do go into lower earth orbit keep their mouths shut.

I'm confused, what are they keeping their mouths shut about?

Well the ones that “went to the moon” are not keeping their mouths shut, they are just lying. Even the most amateur detective can see their lying mannerisms in any interview.

They are keeping their mouths shut about the fact that we can not get any further than lower earth orbit. They keep their mouths full of lies and shut when it comes to the truth.

Oh okay was confused. Why can't they go any further than low earth orbit?

Van Allen radiation belt. NASA admits they can’t leave LEO, yet they claim they went to the Moon.

Why do you think the Van Allen belt prohibits manned space flight outside of LEO?

Why do you think a bunch of Satan worshiping Masons flew to the moon in a tin can?

do you think a bunch of Satan worshiping Masons flew to the moon in a tin

Never seen a good reason to think otherwise. That's why I'm asking you maybe you know something I haven't heard before.

It took me years of researching and more importantly soul searching to come to my conclusions. There is no bullet point I can post that will make you change your mind.

Everyone takes their own path in this journey to find truth. 9/11 is the event that woke me up. Once I realized they could lie about something so grand in scale; I began to investigate everything. I can now say with utmost confidence that damn near everything we “know” is a lie or half truth.

You are exactly right.

Thanks, I understand where the doubters are coming from bc I used to be in their shoes. I just hope they start to find their own truths bc humanity will continue to suffer if we allow authorities to dictate our reality.

I've literally had almost the same argument with someone else in this thread. I think we all (us that can see the truth) used to be in their shoes. They seem to think we do no research at all, as if we are children... yet it likely turns out that we are likely to have dedicated our lives to researching these things to come to such bold conclusions, and they are the ones who have done little to no research, just regurgitating what they were told.

It was 9/11 for me too.

Couldn’t agree more! Thanks for sharing.

I can now say with utmost confidence that damn near everything we “know” is a lie or half truth.

Except the Van Allen belts, eh?

I believe the Bible told of the van Allen belts and that’s what the firmament was really about, not a freaking glass dome over earth. 😂

The Bible says the Van Allen belts are prohibitive of manned space flight?

Yes, it was a barrier bw heaven and earth just like the van Allen belts

Thanks for continuing to reply. I'm just curious about your thought process. Interesting.

I gotta ask - how do you know the Van Allen radiation belts exist, exactly? If not for space scientists telling you that they are present, would you have any way of knowing?

If you believe they can lie about going to the Moon, could they not lie about the presence of dangerous radiation belts?

Why would they invent a phenomenon that, according to you, runs directly counter to their aims, anyway?

NASA didn’t invent the belts, they are just acknowledging Biblical truth about the firmament. There is a barrier between the heavens and earth. Von Braun had the verse that speaks of the firmament put on his tombstone!

Are you arguing that Wernher von Braun thought you couldn't get to space?

Seriously?

He sure hinted at that with his tombstone inscription! He was a Nazi occultist. Why should we trust him?

Perhaps man does have the tech to travel past LEO, but I promise you what we have been told is a lie. We didn’t fly a tin can to the moon.

So we shouldn't believe any of the words people actually said in life, but rely on poetic statements on tombstones instead?

If they are in a secret cult, then yes. These folks are cryptic, and that’s how they clear their karma. They admit the truth at the last minute in a cryptic way.

Wait, didn't you claim he was revealing the 'biblical truth' of the firmament? Last I checked Christianity does not have the concept of karma, so are you suggesting he believed in two distinct religions simultaneously?

Also a tombstone is not admitting at the last minute - it's necessarily after the last minute, since it's placed posthumously.

The word Karma is not in the Bible, but it’s concepts are definitely part of its teachings.

In what sense? Karma is the concept that good intent and good deed contribute to good karma and future happiness, while bad intent and bad deed contribute to bad karma and future suffering.

Except in Christianity, everyone is a sinner. No amount of good deeds can ever change that. Romans 3:10-12 "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” Similarly doing bad deeds doesn't actually make your fate any worse - the exact same fate awaits the harmless or the mass-murderer.

In Christianity, the only thing that matters is whether you believe - that is the determining factor on whether you get to heaven or languish in hell. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Only Catholics have a somewhat different view on this, and even there it's still half of the equation - no amount of good works can get you salvation there either.

And of course, in real life good people can face terrible events, and terrible people can prosper - hence why the afterlife is so often invoked as a final judgement to set right all the injustices of life. Karma is wishful thinking.

We are getting way off topic. What if Von Braun was trying to clear his conscience by having the “firmament verse” put on his tombstone? Does that sound better than Karma? Let’s not get caught up in semantics.

Von Braun spent his life trying to break beyond the firmament but he failed, and to this day we are stuck in low earth orbit. I believe his tombstone inscription was giving the glory to God and admitting defeat.

He put Pslams 19:1 on his grave.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Von Braun became increasingly religious as he got older, and wrote a whole bunch about the meeting of religion and science - he was pretty open about his beliefs. The line you quote is only interpreted to be a literal solid dome by a narrow slice of fundamentalists of which he was not one. It makes way more sense that he'd take it in the usual poetic sense that most Christians do anyway.

It's way more credible than cryptic nazi cults trying to fix karma, anyway.

The Nazis, and Von Braun, were all about the occult. They were trying to use ancient occult knowledge to help them in the war effort. This cannot be refuted.

I believe Von Braun became closer to God because later in life he began to realize that the occult could not help him achieve his goals and that the only way out of here is through Jesus Christ.

'This cannot be refuted' is not an argument, it's just a thoughtstopper. You're now agreeing with me that he got more religious as he got older w/ christianity, but earlier you were arguing he was trying to fix some occult karmic debt, which implies he believed in that until his death. Which is it?

And do you actually have something about occult beliefs of Von Braun himself, or are you just kinda assuming 'there were believers of occult in the nazis, therefore every nazi believed it'?

A pretty gosh-darn specific bible passage he decides to put on his tombstone. You really can't make the general argument that he was getting more religious and he just put a random bible quote on his tombstone, seeing as the passage he put on there is directly about the inability of mankind to penetrate the firmament of the earth and his inability to leave earth.

What a darn shame..

^{Darn Counter: 46327}

That interpretation of the passage is limited to a narrow subsection of fundamentalism, and not one he believed in. You're reading into things based on your own biases here.

Gotta say, you're a master at deflective arguing.

It's a ridiculous argument to claim that a bible passage on a tomb interpreted in the most fundamentalist way somehow holds more weight than literal books full of direct unambiguous statements that disagree with that interpretation.

No, the argument here is why he would specifically choose that quote to put on his final resting place.

Because it's a quote that talks about the heavens and how they show the handiwork of God, and he spent his life in rocketry & was a Christian? It's apt?

This is a question you should ask NASA. Say "Why do you guys say you can't pass the Van Allen belt while you have clearly done so in the 60's with the Apollo moon mission?"

No, I'm asking you for some reasonable explanation. Are you saying NASA is retarded and willfully said contradictory things for no apparent reason, or that they forgot about what they'd already published, or what?

Because stupid NASA or forgetful NASA doesn't make a lot of sense if it's somehow also master deceiver NASA. They can't be incompetent idiots and masterful frauds at the same time.

You are really not gonna get to me with your manipulative way of discussing things. I'm perfectly aware of what you are doing here, and it's not gonna work on me.

The facts are on the table. NASA claims they cant pass the Van Allen belt, yet they supposedly did so with the Apollo moon mission. There is the cutting point and anyone who is an honest person with a critical mind in search of the truth will start questioning NASA...not the person who observed this inconsistency. Which is what you are doing here and what you are gonna continue to do here.

So, are you basing this on actual research, or do you happen to base it on a soundbite? Because I know that NASA claims they went to the Moon. And I know that claiming it's impossible to go to the Moon would be an extremely unlikely position for them to take.

Which brings us back to stupid NASA, or forgetful NASA. And in either case, a NASA which for some reason constructed this whole thing in the first place, because without space scientists you wouldn't even know about those belts in the first place...

You can whine about 'manipulative discussion' all you want, but you don't actually give an explanation. For some reason you just think that NASA debunked NASA and nobody would consider that claim suspect.

.Van Allen radiation belt.

Source?

NASA admits they can’t leave LEO, yet they claim they went to the Moon.

Source?

It’s all in the OP

OK. Every cop, lawyer, judge, mayor, city planner.... and so on, are masons.

Being part of a homoerotic boys club does not make you of like mind.

How do you explain the rest of the world going along with this evil NASA.

And another really silly thing is: to what end?

Money? They steal our money without these elaborate hoaxes.

What about all the independent and amateur scientists?

They just tow the line hoping to get a piece of pie? Let into the club so they can kiss a man's asshole? Literally. Masons are into some weird shit.

They also drive each others widows around... and that's nice.

And want to fingerprint all your kids.. for free!

Problem is the arithmetic all fits. Things like geostationary orbits for satellites and asteroid tragectories. All have math that works.

So is math a scam or is this hoax really intricate?

Do you really think low level pawn Masons are told the truth? Cmon it is a hierarchy. Think!

The math is real, silly, but that doesn’t make what they are saying true. Math can be used to support hypothesis but that does not make it universal law. Science has told us many things that are facts and then later come out and disprove the narrative they once sold us as truth and “fact”.

Why would we spend billions on sending satellites to space when everything that can be done with a satellite can be done with earth based infrastructure, high altitude balloons, and drones?

The conspiracy is not about money or power. The elite already have all the money and power in the world. The conspiracy is to completely control your mind, body and soul. Full spectrum dominance.

Ah. It's the secret club in the secret club's secret club.

I meet a lot of people in my occupation. To entertain myself I will do a weird handshake for some. I have had reactions I didn't know what to do with.

I also made a tshirt years ago that said FUCK MASONS in masonic script.

The butcher at the local Safeway ws staring and staring. I get up to the counter and he looks me in the eye and turns and walks away. Had to wait for another dude to serve me.

Probably was just his break though.

Why is that so hard to understand? It is a cult that has a hierarchy. They have different degrees 1-33, but I actually think it goes even higher. So yes, it is a club within a club.

Yes, they will allow useful idiots, like the butcher at Safeway, to join, but those people will never actually be initiated even if they reach the 33 degrees.

Well I hope it doesn't become a fad to burn those eastern facing windowless buildings down. On a second Tuesday night or something.

That actually sounds like a great idea. To hell with the Masons! Why do we allow this shit to exist in a “free and open”’society. JFK was dead on, and that’s why they blew his head off.

One of the few nonmason Presidents.

He was truly one of the good guys.

And his murder was the foundation of the Bush empire.

There are at least 55 degrees.

I'm pretty sure this person isn't serious and this is actually to discredit legitimate conspiracy facts by listing them along with nonsense.

Yes. And I am sure they operate alts as well. Too similar patterns to be fluke.

I'm actually pretty sure you are here to discredit legitimate discussion by ignoring hundreds of scientific articles and videos and instead using the now-classic 'it's a pysop to distract from the real stuff' argument.

Use your common sense and stop being deceived!

Why is there no test to verify the FE but dozens to verify a globe?

I am not a flat earther. NASA is lying, but that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the earth is flat.

But to answer your question... There is some dude named Eric Dubay and he apparently has put together 200 proofs that say the earth is flat. I really have not investigated bc I don’t think the shape of the earth is a pressing issue at this juncture.

I believe the topic is fruitless bc we live in a quantum realm. There are people that think the earth is flat and that is truly their reality and no one can convince them otherwise. The same could be said about those who think we live on a globe. Perception is reality within our quantum universe. To each their own and all that Jazz:)

NASA is lying, but that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the earth is flat.

Thats what this post is. This is a FE supporter giving links that support a FE...

The links are to debunk NASA. We need to call them out for their lies. If that leads people to FE then so be it.

Don’t let your mistrust of FE give you a false sense that NASA is legitimate. In my opinion they are both wrong!

Im all for doubting the powers that be but dont tell me Jesuits created a globe earth to hide their santantic overlords or lie about propulsion in a vacuum to do so.

Do you think its okay to lie to people to get them to understand ideas?

Has anyone else claimed to have gone to the moon? Why is the US the only one? Why haven't we been back since the 70s? With far greater technology and all the experience of actually having done it, wouldn't it be a relatively easy feat? http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-1/

The Chinese sent a probe.

Was that a lie?

Why go to the moon again? Why did they do it several times. Once was enough in my books. It is a barren limp of shit with really no point in being there.

So edgy. Take about look at your camp. Crazy old toothless guy and assorted lunatics.

The math on the while thing is correct though. From the fuel needed to the speeds traveled.

Not one of your brethren has found any errors there.

Just funny looking rocks that are rodents. Oh sorry that's the fake Mars people.

I get you people mixed up.

Many of the linked videos are FE tropes.

Because a lot of these links are about Flat Earth and many of those that aren't, still link to channels or websites that are.

Have you even clicked one of the links? LOL

You clearly haven't clicked any of the links yet. That's the whole point of this post.

Click some of them, then come back.

I clicked the Apollo 16 video. Cool footage.

This is why I come here. I’m tired of all the politics, I want to read crazy shit about space being fake and secret alien bases in Antarctica.

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons I guess but it's better than what the 'others' are doing by chiming in, making a one-liner comment about "science" and discrediting the entire thread.

It's hard to discredit an entire thread that's some 400 articles long with 30-hour long videos on most... ? Like the fuck? do you think most people don't have jobs?

Like the tops post states this is a tactic to try and show support in the rediculous because you can regurgitate fallacies faster than anyone can or has time to show you actual sources and evidence, which of course you won't believe because of your unconscious biases

Silly post, most of the links lead to sketchy websites with even sketchier videos.

You open with the fact NASA receives $52 million a day.... that's not even a lot relative to the overall us budget and for a lie THIS BIG I think they would want to spend much more.

The mars sun photo is by no proof of a pasted in object, it depends on the lens of the camera and every other video/picture can be debunked in a similar fashion.

You just spammed the cheekiest videos you could find

Are you trying to tell us there’s nothing to see here, move along?

I'm saying that none of these posts have remotely credible information.

I think he might be saying that only the ignorant would believe the bullshit in those videos.

That's exactly what he's doing haha. The voting is so obvious, great job OP.

I just wish once these anti-space / moon conspirators could come up with a reasonable argument for what NASA / Government has to gain by lying about those topics.

Actually hurts my head with how stupid it is.

If they are lying to us, I think it is to obscure the secret space program and/or the involvement of ETs.

This thread should be stickied.

Fuck NO! His inability to understand science is not an excuse to dismiss scientific facts.

Which 'science' does he not understand?

The part where we mere mortals are meant to defer to authority, and trust the guys on TV over our own senses?

Most of us embrace this because we already understand and believe that we are being lied to, especially about science. Of course if you believe the "scientific facts" that you read then this would sound like nonsense. Many of these people believe Einstein was a shill for example, a "mad zany scientist" character...

Tesla had the real knowledge, and was the real genius of our time. which was stolen by the elite and kept from us.

When the "alien invasion" hoax occurs you will be completely and utterly fooled, deceived by your "science"

What does Tesla have to do with space?

Because he believed completely different universal laws than are taught in public school indoctrination system.

Please don't be vague.

What laws specifically did he believe that are completely different from what we are taught in school?

And you haven't answered my original question. What does Tesla have to do with space?

He believed the laws of the universe were governed by electromagnetism, and explained things on those grounds rather than gravity in many situations. Obviously that has to do with space. I am being vague because I am not an authority on this subject.

"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration" -Tesla

When Einstein was asked how it feels to be the smartest person in the world: "I don't know, you will have to ask Tesla"

Tesla was a brilliant man. A true genius but all he did was claim that he had produced a dynamic theory of gravity but he never gave any details on what it was.

In the absence of any actual theory from him I'll go with the established science up until it is disproved.

So, Tesla is the reason we have much of the technology we have today, and that is an understatement, do you ever wonder why we learn so little about him in school?

Because promotion. Einstein was heavily pushed promotion wise. Large amounts of money went to making his name known to the world.

Tesla was bankrupted, outcast (perhaps a combination of choice but also through other means) and probably a highly targeted individual

Iirc, he dismissed relativity as castles in the sky. Believe it or not, relativity is not "proven" as the schools lead on. The map is not the territory.

"Science isn't real!" types man over internet.

Step2thejep is here to shill (likely his own) content which he posts under John le Bon and charges $20+ per month for his content. He only posts John le bonn videos even though mods told him to stop.

He believes there are no planets, no space, no atoms, earth is flat, missles can’t fly and nukes don’t exist and hx older than our lifetimes (Tesla through Plato) is fake, and dinasaurs don’t exist, etc.

Most of his ideas are based in a lack of understanding even basic physics and many of his free posts have no substance but shill his paid content.

In one video he asserts missiles cannot fly in level flight because he doesn’t understand basic physics, is proven wrong in the comments, makes a video pretending to admit wrong and then concludes he should just keep his material behind a paywall. If you argue with him and show him equations and papers on missle flight/control he calls it drawings and theory. Show him videos of missiles in flight and they are doctored. His own theory is based on drawings, misunderstanding if basic physics and conjecture and it seems like the only proof he might accept is if someone strapped him to a missle and fired him from a fighter jet. Then when he got called out on it made another video where he pretended to retract his first video, then doubled down and decided it best he stay behind his pay wall.

That's your rebuttal against the hundreds of links and articles and videos? Nice trolling, you got to me.

How do I save this as a document or something?

Ok, can you please put a (PDF, JPEG, Image Album, Youtube video and how long it is, etc) next to each link?

I'm totally open to the idea that at least some aspects of the space program are faked. Potentially open to more than that.

This is a huge list, however. Any hero willing to select a very few of the strongest, most evidence-based links as a place to start? No Luciferian influence, no Nazi infiltrators, no alternative physics for now please. Best thing would be some official NASA footage presentefd with ironclad evidence of fakery. Any takers? TIA

Is it because you dont understand the science behind it? Sometime there is big scary boogie man behind things.

Pin this and get that stupid guide to vaccines with it's recommendation to speak to a physician "Especially!" about taking vaccines. lol

THIS IS WAY WORSE! Denying science just because you cannot understand doesnt make scientific facts any less true.

Either the creator of this video is a troll or the stupidest person on Earth.

Most likely sent on a mission from God and/or Putin. Or it could be reverse psychology to get people off of FE, space and moon hoaxes, when even people ignorant of science can see the ridiculousness of these videos.

Moderators - I'm sure you've notice this vote manipulation here. FE items getting mass upvotes when just weeks ago they were rightfully downvoted into oblivion.

Ikr. Your inability to not understand science doesnt mean you can excuse scientifi facts.

This isnt necessarily about flat earth. Sure a prerequisite to flat earth is going to be to distrust NASA.

But I both distrust NASA and am highly scrutinizing of the evidence released, for solid reasons. I also dont think the earth is flat, rather that we are intentionally mislead about whats currently (im)possible and where the future of our race is headed.

Commenting so I can read later

Damn.

Not enough evidence /s

Thank you.

For what?

How many of the links did you check before saying 'thank you'?

Good stuff, thx

"Gish gallop" is a term for a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming one's opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 141432}

You felt overwhelmed by a list of clickable links? If you wish to debunk OP (you’ve called this a debate so I presume that’s what you’d like to do if you weren’t so overwhelmed) then I’d suggest starting with the first one and working through them one by one. It wouldn’t be too hard for a genius like you who knows what fish gallop means.

That's the whole point, going through and refuting all of these links would take hours of writing and the whole time OP looks like an expert but could be claiming anything.

Does a random list of links look like a display of expertise to you, that’s your problem. You should think more critically about the information presented to you. If you don’t have time to do so, fine, but don’t cry about it.

There are 350 hyperlinked parts within that wall of text. If I'm to assume each of those are independent points to be tested, and each of that takes, let's say, 1/2hr to go through on a mediocre level, that's 175hrs of information to sift through. Let's say I work a typical 8-5p and average my sleep to 7hrs, per American standards. The result is 8hrs of free time, assuming I have zero other obligations to attend to, such as commute, or eating. Say I work 5dys/wk, leaving me with 74hrs/wk. If I spent every waking moment dedicated to going through OP's disconnected railroad of links, it would take me 2.36wks to finish, not accounting for any written followup, if I'm to assume the point of this post is to bring discussion to the table. Fuck. That.

Now, either OP was looking to instigate discussion, in which case this post is a miserable failure by the lack of attention from not only the comments, but OP seems to be absent as well; or, OP was not looking for an open discussion and looking to side-line the opposition with a mountain of links in a quantity>quality fashion with the simple goal of making it difficult to rebut. In other words, either this is a shit post, or a gish gallop. I'll use my "critical thinking" and be as dismissive to this post as gish gallopers are to responses given to individual arguments within the flood. It's only fair.

“Ain’t nobody got time for dat.”

counts 350 links to prove a point to a stranger

Or, after the hyperlink it has a little "[350]" and the longest thing that took time out of my comment was opening a second tab to type in a calculator "175/74."

That’s just OP staying his penis length in millimeters

Or you could do a simple document.getElementById('post-body').getElementsByTagName('a').length

Im on phone, note post-body might not be the right id.

Oh yeah I knew that...

Somehow I think you did not.

This is pretty amazing. You are essentially saying 'I got no time to look into what you are saying, regardless whether it's real or not, so I'm just gonna not believe it, because that's easier.'

Eh, hold on. Nowhere in my comment is there a statement of disbelief to any of the individual links. The point is in my second paragraph, that the structure of a post like this is not designed for reasonable discourse. It's a pat on the back to those that already believe in space conspiracies en masse, particularly about NASA, and structured to dismiss criticism by deflecting from one response to an unanswered one. The amount of effort it will take to respond to these is significantly higher than the effort it takes to point in a different direction, and if you have no problem with that, I don't know what to tell you. See comments like this one, this one, or this one. There is no possible way anyone critically went through each and every one of these within the span of 24hrs, and yet people are already taking this list as "ammunition?" Give me a break.

This structure is like a flood, and treating it like a compilation of droplets is only going to cause me to drown, does that make sense? Here, I'll go through one, since I have a little time on my hands, and I'm fairly confident I can respond to any of these. I'll use an RNG to determine which one, but you'll have to trust me that I used one: the number I pulled was 163, which happens to be this video, how skylab could be faked... not exactly a fan of this one, since it's a 15m video, but here's my response.

0:39: I'll assume this is a joke, because I'd like to give him enough credit to salvage my sanity.

0:54: Stars are faint, and depending on the location of the Sun stars don't show up well on footage. You can try this yourself at night: go outside and take a photo of the sky and notice how not all the stars end up on the camera. It's the same principle at hand here. I don't really have much else to say about the list he gives here, because he's talking about seeing black holes right near Earth, and... what?

1:09 No perfect vacuum exists, but that doesn't mean a) the concept of a vacuum is useless on a macro or micro level, or b) that star dust is fake. The closest we get to vacuums in outer space still retain a few H atoms/m^3, and I'm not really sure what the point of complaining about "no true vacuum" here is, tbqh. Outer space is loosely defined at the Kármán line, which has pressure at about 3.2×10−2 Pa, which is classified as "high vacuum."

At this point, I'm just wondering when he's going to talk about Skylab, or if he's just going to continuously rant without a central point.

1:54 Debris is problematic because they're, generally, very small and very fast. Sentinel 1A was struck back in 2016 by debris about the size of a mm and resulted in a 40cm dent to the solar panels. Does he think space debris means thousands upon thou

1:59 He's repeating his statement from about 60s ago, so I'm just going to move on.

2:55 He's back to talking about the Earth spinning. So, I went to the source video, and... it's clearly moving, so I don't know what he's on about.

3:38 Okay, simply saying it's fake doesn't mean shit. He just sits for a full minute talking about how "retarded" everyone is.

4:28 He's still going on and mocking without saying anything... "oh, look it must be real, but nope, it's fake" is all I'm getting right now.

4:46 It's not "anti-gravity," it's low gravity...

5:11 F = G m_1 m_2 / r²

5:22 I don't know how to debunk the Skylab vid, he doesn't seem very intent on doing it himself, though... other than sitting there mocking it.

5:31 It was never flat...

5:44 I agree, that would be fun

Holy shit, he's finally talking about Skylab.

8:40 Bitter solenoids do not disprove gravity... they overcome it... that's like saying steel isn't strong because I can toss a knife through cardboard. The diametric forces acting upon the frog overcome relatively weaker gravitational forces and push the frog towards the center of the Bitter solenoid.

9:50 If you were to supersize that you'd get an image looking nothing like what the video shows... the frog struggles to reach the edges, and the astronauts freely move around them.

13:00 He's done nothing to prove that. Also, from here on out he just constantly repeats "it's diamagnetism," so I think we're done here.

Last notes: the dates don't match up and the size of the magnet doesn't match up. In 1933 Bitter figured out how to construct what is now known as the Bitter solenoid. In 1973 Skylab was launched for 3 missions over the course of 173 days and 13 hrs. Then, in 2011, a Bitter solenoid was improved upon to increase efficiency by 40% resulting in the 45T hybrid magnet in Florida. This is the current record, as far as I'm aware, and that one is not nearly the size of the room they are doing flips in, specifically the power supply is clearly larger and the magnet itself is clearly smaller than the Skylab.

That took me about 45m just to sit there, pause the vid when I had something to write about, and pull up a couple links to work with. Do you see the problem now when you list 350 links? It would take far too long to go point by point, and that's the purpose of a post like this. It's not that I don't have the time, it's that's I don't have the time and I shouldn't be expected to respond point by point due to the clear lack of intent to meaningful discourse.

He has no time to do research.

..And yet they claim they are the ones who are on the side of 'science'.

Also why does it bother you so much that OP “looks like an expert”, yet you’re also claiming you see through his facade. Reckon others aren’t as awesome at seeing through BS as you? And that bothers you why?

It's because a Gish Gallop is a fallacious debate tactic. It actively harms our ability to discern the truth.

Loving the down votes. OP must be onto something after all...

OP is contributing to the dumbing-down of the sub, so some of us are downvoting it. I despair at how easily ignorant people fall for this crap.

Yeah righto cool

Rule 10

Sure, but what does that have to do with OP if you're not debating or arguing against any of the points? If you are feeling overwhelmed, start with debating one point. If you're not going to argue any of the points at all, then your comment is a non sequitur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

What you're saying is false. The whole point of a Gish Gallop is to force your opponent to waste their time trying to shovel out your pile of bullshit. Of course, you can always heap on more faster than logical, critical thought, and research can dispell it. To those who don't understand the trick, this can make it seem like a position is very well supported, when in actually no convincing arguments or evidence have been put forward to support it.

Calling out a Gish Gallop is the proper response, do not jump into the brier patch. What you can do is ask the person you are debating with to provide you with the 3-5 most iron clad and convincing pieces of evidence for their position, and see if they will agree ahead of time to admit that the position likely isn't true if these points can be dispelled. Falsifiability is key.

The post is a compilation, (see title) which is commonly used on r/conspiracy when there are many proofs of something, sometimes hundreds of proofs for the user to look through at their leisure. Anybody can feel free to refute anything in the OP, one at a time. This isn't a speaking debate where a method like gish gallop would be used to trip the opponent up because he doesn't have time to respond to everything. Gish gallop doesn't work in this format (list on links on a reddit post), because you have time to refute each link.

Also, this person claimed OP was using a debate tactic, yet didn't debate a single point, and therefore it wasn't a debate tactic because there was no debate. Complaining that the list is too big, and that there isn't a TL;DR, does not make it gish gallop, and does not add anything to a discussion at all.

You're wrong. Gish Gallop was coined from debate, but is perfectly accurate in describing behavior in a forum that obscures rather than illuminates.

Even if someone or a group sat down and critiqued each item on the list thoroughly, no single person would ever be reasonbly expected to make it through that line-by-line critique. We all know it would never happen. That critique would put a dissertation to shame, just by the volume necessitated.

By far the better approach with be a genuinely curated list, with links to supplementary information if wanted. What we have here is a completely jumbled grab bag, where each person is gonna reach in and take something out. No one will be on the same page, and no real meaningful discussion of the evidence will be had.

It doesn't facilitate discussion or understanding of the subject, it seeks to overwhelm.

Id agree with you if I didnt have experience analyzing a whole lot of video evidence which doesnt pass my bullshit barometer. Theyve essentially been tricking us about space to some extent. Id hope youre brave enough to investigate yourself with an open mind. Feel free to ignore this too long list.

Here's the thing. I'm not saying I trust NASA. Far from it.

I'm saying that this is a fallacious persuasive technique. It doesn't give any accurate representation of reality, because any good information is homogenously mixed in with with all the fluff.

The intellectually honest approach would be a truly curated list, one that sought not to overwhelm​ through sheer magnitude of content, but rather to persuade through the unassailability of each item on the list. The list would be reduced by a few orders of magnitude, and more more intellectually honest and ultimately more persuasive for it.

We could have an actual meaningful conversation about the entirety of the evidence presented and what it means, with any one individual being able to take in all the data. That's not possible in the current environment.

Youre on point, good sir. Remember I left off saying you should feel free to ignore this list. For someone like me, this list has its utility. Its utility is NOT what you are wanting it to be. If you want that, check out my post history for some title like "Does it cast a shadow? A lesson in NASA fakery." Got some good conversation going with that thread.

Modern fakery aint the easiest to get a grip on to be honest but it's out there!

As for "what it means"im actually aaare of dozensof possibilities. We dont have enough information about secret black budgets / projects by definition, though so this is amother difficulty. People seem to want answers as to why, though. A necessary start is agreeing there is fakery though. Then we can push for answers together as a collective.

I fundamentally disagree that we get anywhere with a list like this. Any signal is lost in the overwhelming noise.

You can disagree. Stated in another way, this list does have value for someone like me; who understands the premise and already knows of certain specific instances of fakery like. It's terrible for someone who still is just entertaining the idea.

It is a bad list not because most people reading it aren't ready for the information, but because most of the information on the list is bad or misleading. And because the list is so huge that it is impractical to convincing demonstrate this to anyone. It would take a tremendous effort that would be too large to cast to expect anyone to digest.

This makes it a textbook example of a Gish Gallop.

Sure, I find myselfagreeing with you more as I explore the list. It would have been great to just get a curated collection of links to potentially fraudulent space videos. Thatd be great.

This would be a very good assessment (and I mean that) if in reality people wouldn't get outright ridiculed and shut down from further discussion when they post a flat earth/fake spake thread which do contain a more compact and easily digestible list of content. We all know how easily the flat earth discussion is shut down everywhere, so you have to recognize that although what you are saying is logical, that in reality we find out that it doesn't matter anyway unfortunately. If that attitude and approach can change, then we would all be better for it.

In my opinion, the primary goal of flat earth meme is to keep eyes off of the secret space program. Does this by funneling anyone who questions what NASA puts out down a rabbithole that leads no where, while at the same time makes normies less likely to ever question the official story, because look what those crazy conspiracy theorists are talking about. This wedge strategy is fingerprints of a psyop.

What secret space program?

The one Gary McKinnon exposed, among a great many others. You now have enough key words to look into it yourself, if you've s genuine interest.

I'm checking it now. Link me a good video please, cause I'm finding too many and don't know which ones are worth watching.

I'd start with researching what Gary McKinnon found and follow your nose from there. I honestly think I'd be doing you a disservice by giving you much more than that; I don't know where you're at and this stuff is so multi-layered that you can easily blind yourself to the truth if you try to walk someone else's path. More and more I believe that the universe opens itself to you like a flower if you open yourself to it in kind. The key is to let the universe lead you to the truth with an open mind and heart, trying to avoid the trap of confirming what you think/want to be true. Feel for the small, quiet voice inside yourself that's almost always right yet you reflexively want to ignore.

Your kinds words are much appreciated.

As are you yourself. I wish you a happy and illuminating journey.

Gish Gallop would be indeed the proper term if it all was bullshit. In the case of NASA exploits, there are so many loose-ends, one needs only ONE to make the entire construct collapse.

No, Gish Gallop is not only applicable if the entire list is bullshit. The point is that it's functionally impossible to check the whole gallop, so you cannot really accurately judge the point behind the gallop. It obscures reality, rather than illuminating it.

I'm not saying I trust NASA. Not even remotely. I'm saying that this technique makes it harder to get at the truth.

Those were some pretty damn convincing videos and factoids. Some fuckery is afoot.

What percentage of the videos and factoids did you find convincing?

I didn't see all of them but the ones that I did see convinces me that something fucky is going on.

There was one with the the reflection of some guy in an ipad on the ISS. The guy looked like he was wearing some weird mask from Eyes Wide Shut.

I already believe something fucky is going on. I did my own research prior, but I definitely do like that OP was able to consolidate all this information for us.

I'm not saying there isn't some good info in there, there is. And I don't buy that we're getting the straight deal about what's going on in space, but not for a second. But you've got to admit, there's a lot of real garbage in that list. A whole lot. On the whole, it distracts and lies more than it informs.

Anyway, that's my piece. Thanks for taking the time to respond. :)

Okay first link is about the Jesuits creating this lie. Thats pretty easily countered with facts about our world. You cant fake measuring the suns angles to figure out we live on a flat plane, the first link is typical psyop FE nonsense.

Second link is another YouTube video that uses video glitches to show that NASA streams are fake. Another one that has no merit. You think public access if fake if the video quality is poor?

NASA does not mean to decieve in Hebrew. That dubay disinfo.

Typical FE talking points that hold no water.

If I wrote a hundred points on why my urine cures cancer do you have to go over every single point?

do you have to go over every single point?

The beauty about this list is all it takes is one mistake on their part while they're in outer space or on the Moon which proves they're lying, and they lose credibility forever. Forget that there may be hundreds of examples of deception. All it takes is one example of faking space, and anybody will realize they've been deceived.

NASA does not mean to decieve in Hebrew....

No, but I'd say it does in English. Do you believe government agencies aren't deceptive?

I beleive what I can prove.

Verifying the shape of the Earth is not difficult but it does require a bit of research.

Most people are more content with youtube videos instead of spending an afternoon reading.

“Bullshit” is a term for a technique used by NASA to overwhelm the masses with as much fallacy as possible without ever giving a straight answer to the public’s questions.

Which questions haven't they given a straight answer to?

Shh don't ask difficult questions you'll get down voted :)

Literally any technical question relating to the Apollo program.

They claim it has all been lost or "accedentially" deleated, I am not even making this up, there is zero actual scientific literature available for researchers to validate NASA's moon landing claims

How do the stars look, from outer space?

This simple question indeed has been answered many times.

In the following clip, for example the subject comes up in different occasions and the answers are all contradictory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqy4dyoJKo&t=1074s

You ever notice that the "real stars" in your link go away when using analog technology and only appear when using digital cameras?

Have you ever asked yourself why?

Why does your video claim that it should be impossible to see Mercury and Venus at night? Because of?

Why does your video claim that it should be impossible to see Mercury and Venus at night? Because of?

Because if they really are orbiting closer to the sun than Earth is, then the only time we should be able to see them is if we're facing the sun in other words when it's day out. How can we see it when we're not facing the sun if they're closer to the sun than us? They'd be on the other side of the world any time at night. Or at least that's why I got from it my understanding of most science is utter shit tho. If someone can shed light on that I'd love a reply!

Because they're on elliptical orbits, not perfectly round ones like in pictures. Also, there are certain times of the year where we can't see those planets. Like literally, we're at a point where we almost can't see Venus anymore.

Haven't you ever noticed how Venus is only visible right after sunset???

This must be one of the stupidest movies I ever skipped through.

There has been an influx of 'Gish gallop' posts lately. Have you noticed? It's a term long-known to the religion debate community but only recently used in r/Conspiracy. I wonder why it's being trotted out so readily at this point.

Could be a counter move to the SS rule, which is doing wonders for fostering discourse in this sub. Very dangerous.

I love how often I'm now seeing people here calling out logical fallacies. Critical thinking and conspiracy theorizing are the same thing, not in opposition to each other. Don't let anyone tell you different, and keep calling out the logical fallacies. Every time you do, it's like defanging a snake.

This post isn't a gish gallop in any way at all.

Your post is a text book "forum slide" though.

It is. The idea that it isn't because it isn't arguing against any one person is ridiculous. The post is arguing against the position that NASA is telling us the truth. (I don't think NASA is, but this Gish Gallop does not facilitate the discussion or understanding of this topic. It just tries to overwhelm)

It didn't overwhelm me, maybe try thinking harder?

You didn't follow even a small fraction of the links.

Gish gallop mixed with disinfo to make NASA critics look like crazies. This is garbage.

lol this guy's purchased and brigaded upvotes aren't working for him.

I can't wrap my head around 67 upvotes, surely they were purchased.

Okay, bud. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

How exactly is the OP "overwhelming one's opponent with as many arguments as possible" when he/she isn't arguing against anyone, merely offering resources on a particular subject.

Why the fuck is this the top comment?

Is OP able to verify all of the bullshit posted asbeing credible?

This is how a Gish Gallop works. It puts an absolutely untenable burden of proof on anyone who wants to counter the Gish Gallop narrative. And trying to do so is a complete waste of, because the Galloper can always pile on more dross faster than you can dispel it.

Unless there is a deeply compelling reason not to, which you explicitly address and explain why you aren't galloping, the intellectually honest course of action is to restrict yourself to the 3-5 most convincing pieces of evidence/argument.

OP is arguing against consensus beliefs.

Well, it’s now been deleted FWIW

Guessing ever since that thread about "shill argument techniques" (with lack of better wording) came about you're gonna have people applying expressions like "gish gallop" very loosely.

Rule 10

I don't think rule 10 should apply here.

Here is the post for anyone interested: https://www.ceddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7ss4l9/space_hoax_compilation/

https://www.ceddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7ss4l9/space_hoax_compilation/

I seriously cannot find a way of reading this as a rule 10 violation, could you please explain?

Nice work

I'm not sure if these are on there but these were huge for me personally.

Contadictory astronaut testimony on whether you can see stars in space:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmcwW-8CC6E

And Don Petit "We can't go back to the moon because we don't have the technology to do it anymore, we destroyed it":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK-uatwOOeA

Well of course they don't have the moon trip technology anymore. They haven't gone to the moon in decades and they've focused on other ventures since then. The standards at which they keep spacecraft clean, of course they couldn't use any of the old stuff. It's been sent to museums and storage warehouses to get out of the way. They don't use the same type of manufacturing. They don't use the same type of electronics. Nothing is the same as it was when they went to the Moon. So you can't use that data to just rebuild a shuttle for a moon trip. They've had their sights on Mars for years now which would require a completely different type of craft.

I just wish more people would ask why when they take these quotes out of context. Go find the entire statement and read into what they are actually trying to get across rather than a context free dictionary approach to one sentence or moment.

Just piggybacking on this comment, another one I saw that was hilarious bullshit was this thing about not being able to leave low Earth orbit and how we then couldn't have gone to the Moon. We can't "leave" low Earth orbit in the ISS because we need gravity to keep it orbiting and out of harmful radiation. The Van Allen belt during the Apollo missions was barely any radiation for that short period of time. They didn't have extended time in space, like the ISS or a Mars trip. Plus they had minimal exposure, skipping the internal belt and going through an area that was low radiation. They only received about 0.16 to 1.14 rads of radiation during each trip, which isn't even enough to show effects. A human can be exposed to about 25 rad before you can notice in blood work. It takes 100 rad for acute radiation sickness. It takes 200 rad for a fatal dose. They maybe experienced a single unit of rad. That isn't shit.

Moon landing conspiracies are the silliest of conspiracies. It was a great achievement, but really the hard part is getting out there. The travel through empty space only requires a little bit of thrust and telemetry.

I found one, This guy above me.

Shill accusation record time! How can I get in on those sweet shill dollars?

Why are you guys so afraid of dissenting opinions? Are you here to circlejerk or discuss? Do you just want an echo chamber?

Why not engage with the commenter?

To the list of people smarter than you? Yeah. You should listen to those folks. Try to learn something.

That was the whole quote, not taken out of context, he then goes on to talk about Mars.

and what about the contradictory statements about whether the stars are visible or not? Which would seemingly be one of the most obvious possible things?

Also, check this out and look closely, there is a strong argument for the dudes being held up by strings as shown here, and also as a bonus this video points out certain sound clips of hammers being used and things being thrown that should not be able to be heard in the absence of an atmosphere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlUNJzU9Mdw

I am open to either possibility, I am not really emotionally bound to either side, but there are things that really need some better explaining to me, forgive me for erring on the side that the government is lying to us, since that is really all they fucking do.

In the lunar day time, the sun hits the highly reflective ground, making the stars hard to see with the naked eye. You would have to look away from the sun, and shield your eyes from the ground light. I don't get what is contradictory here.

The movements of astronauts on the moon does not seem suspect at all. In every example in that movie, it looks entirely like what you would expect in a 1/6 g environment. Do you find it suspect that they were able to jump and skip around, as well as get back on their feet the way they do?

The sound of the hammer passing through the astronaut's bones to his helmet mike seems plausible. The thrown wire coinciding with a thud in the sound recording is not a strong argument that it was faked. In fact, it makes no sense.

And so we could go on and on. I am open to either possibility, so forgive me for erring on the side that the people who demonstrably never ever seem to understand this space science and engineering stuff, either got it wrong or are simply lying.

Okay, so you explained the science about whether stars are visible or not, but the question is how do you explain the completely contradictory statements by the astronauts. "you can see the stars pretty much all the time, and the planets and the nebula bla bla" and the apollo astronauts "We never ever saw any stars, a black void" It doesn't have to do with math or science.

Man, i see the guy laying flat on the ground and levitating back to his feet without any push off.

You need to offer a plausible alternative to the thrown wire noise then. If it makes no sense, please explain since you can mock the theory so easily.

I should have emphasized the part where I wrote that stars are hard to see in the bright moon daylight. Both by eye and camera. This is like moon hoax 101 stuff. In a darkened out space ship, turning away from the sun, so you only look at space, your eyes adjust and you see the stars more clearly than on a cloudless night in the country. To film stars in space, you increase the exposure, so your film or sensors can catch the dim light.

The film narration is riddled with misinterpretations. The guy you say is levitating seems to be repeatedly pushing with both arms against the ground. This feat would be impossible to pull off with wires, but on the Moon, wires are not needed! The astronaut that is helped and wants a push on the head, is helped up by the other astronauts hand, not by a push on the head like the narrator states.

The thrown wire noise I cannot account for - but if it was filmed in a studio, what microphone picked up the noise of it hitting the lander? The only microphones were the astronauts headsets. So there could have been a headset in the lander that was turned on constantly and it picked up the sound, which was then added during production mixdown. But the microphone could not have picked up the sound, since the lander didn't have an airlock, and so was depressurized during EVA. Is that what you are saying indicates fakery?

Your first link is really disengenuous.

You have two astronauts saying they can see stars from what Im assuming is the ISS and then its followed by astronauts saying they couldnt see stars from specifically the lunar surface or the day side of the moon....

What was just said was essentially the same as a person at night saying they can see stars and another person during the day saying they cant.

As for the Petit one he is correct. We dismantled all of our heavy rockets.

Two down. 348 links of stupidity to go.

It wasn't just the apollo astronauts making contradictory statements. The two guys behind the green screen were the only one who saw the spectacular view, all other astronauts saw no stars.

Not according to the video the guy posted

Best explained 2 min clip

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Efh4bu4rcbs

LMAO

Excellent Work !!!

Amazing archive, is this on a website?

What a bunch of horseshit. Cant understand Newton's laws of motion? Rockets must not work in a vacuum!😂😂😂😂

Plato was right and Newton is part of the scam. Newtonian physics loses more credibility each day. The universe is electric and quantum in nature. This is fact and is carefully being disclosed in slow motion.

Care to cite that "fact"?

I am not your research assistant. The truth is out there.

To see it, one must first empty their cup of lies and preconceived notions. Only then can one fill their cup with truth.

No sorry. You can't claim something is true and a fact and not back it up. The onus is on you to prove it.

Hey guys, colors aren't real. That's a fact. But I'm not going to show you that fact, you need to look it up yourself.

See how stupid that sounds?

Now. Care to cite your "facts"?

Research electric universe and look into quantum physics. That is the future. The old paradigm is dying.

Moving the goalposts at its best. Went from rockets cannot work in space to quantum physics. Stick to one thing. Explain why rockets cannot work in space.

By the way I am pretty sure you know fuck all about Quantum Mechanics. How did you research it? Did you learn Calculus, Differential Equations and Linear Algebra? I highly doubt it.

I said nothing about rockets not working in space. I study sacred geometry. Everything you learned in school works against you and pulls you further away from the truth. The truth is not taught in the institutions that seek to control us.

You replied to a comment talking about rockets working in space with "Newtonian Physics is dead", its pretty clear that you think what the commenter is saying is wrong. And you move on to quantum mechanics and some bullshit about electric universe while not citing any sources.

I study sacred geometry.

Ok. But what does this have to do with Quantum Mechanics and Newtonian Physics being wrong. Still moving the goalposts. Try and get the value of Bohr Radius using "Sacred Geometry". See how far that gets you.

The truth is not taught in the institutions that seek to control us.

So where is the truth taught?

Why don’t you look into Electric universe theory before calling it bullshit? The thunderbolts project is a good start.

I guess it was unfair to call Newtonian physics “wrong” but it is not accurate method to study the true nature of our quantum realm.

You seem like a smart fellow and what I am saying is damaging to your intelligence and ego. I get that, but you must understand that ego will blind one from the truth. Everything is connected and our egos keep us from experiencing this sacred truth.

The search for truth is a personal journey. All modern academic institutions have been infiltrated by those who wish to keep us in mental prisons. If you want truth, you must sacrifice your ego and let go of preconceived notions.

Like Yoda says, “you must unlearn, what you have learned” Happy hunting, I wish you the best!

Which is why Newtonian physics and quantum physics are separate, with special relativity to reconcile the two.

Stay tuned. A new era approaches, and just like history shows; the scientific paradigm will change. Always has, always will.

Took your advise and looked at one of the videos from the Thunderbolts Project. It was called Thunderbolt of the gods and honestly it was even worse than I thought. Pure unadulterated bull-crap. No mathematical framework. Just "this ancient thing looks similar to some photos from space so entirety of modern physics is wrong". I cant believe anyone would fall for this crap.

Uhh, the fact that he said 'look into Electric universe' is pretty much your answer for a 'source'. Seeing as how you can choose your own sources for investigating the electric universe. He pretty much gave you a lead. What do you want more from him? To read his sources out for you while you lay in bed?

"Research _____" is not a source. It is a lazy cop out. Just searching it in google leads to hundreds of websites. How am I supposed to know which one is right? Where has the results from QM been derived from "Sacred Geometry"? Even the ThunderBolts Project that she talked about has nearly a hundred videos of 10 to 90 min length.

When I ask for a source, I mean where did you get this information or how did you arrive at your conclusion. That way I can understand where you are coming from and we can have a fruitful discussion. Saying "Research _____" is about as useful as saying Research Geography to someone asking for directions.

Uh, to be perfectly fair, we are in a thread which contains hundreds of videos and links and here we are talking about 'sources'? Hello?

😂

Research electric universe

Ah yes, the electric universe, this is why rubber balls act like magnets right?

Cite your sources or shut the fuck up.

The Bible is a good start:)

A book written BY MAN almost some 2000 years before space exploration. yea they know all about it don't they.... Jesus Fucking Christ...

It predicted the van Allen belts and told us there is a barrier between the heavens and the earth. And here we are 2000 years later stuck in LEO just like the Bible says.

We nuked the damn thing in Operation fishbowl yet we still couldn’t get through. Von Braun himself, threw his hands up and gave the glory to God.

I trust divinely inspired text way more than Masonic deception from Nazi occultists.

They are lying and you know it deep down

No i don't because i don't fall for that bullshit. God is a system of enslavement yet all you clowns come around here calling us sheep.

If you wanna throw that van allen bullshit around here you have to call Planes a hoax as the van allen belt starts around 500 km and goes up to 58,000... Planes fly around 39,000... seriously? we all die everytime we fly do we?

Actually Jesus would agree with you. He said Satan is the god of the earthly realm and the True Gods kingdom is in heaven. Remember we got tricked into coming down into Satan’s world and we were cast out of Eden. Jesus was sent to show us the way out of here and it can’t be done with rockets my friend. I don’t call people sheep, btw.

Planes stay within our atmosphere and are protected by the deadly radiation that exists outside of it. That is a silly argument my friend.

I whole heartedly reject the notion of a god in any way. And so help me if I die and find out there is one ill punch it square in its fucking face for what it allows to happen. I will remember the quote until I die "if there is a god he will have to beg my forgiveness"

I have to control myself when getting upset and allow others to hold their own beliefs, so forgive me if I'm being harsh.

Why are you blaming God? He gave us free will and we have created this world and like I said, the true Gods kingdom is not of this world. We are in Satan’s web yet we could make this realm more enjoyable but we choose to do nothing and maintain status quo.

Maybe you should punch yourself in the face? Don’t blame God for your own shortcomings. You can change at any moment and bring light into the darkness.

Its not my faults hahaha. So Christian of you to think I was thinking of myself. No its for everyone in thos world who suffers.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.  Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.  Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?  Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

My mother was raped and abused her whole life by her father, the justice system left her for abandon, that abuse bled into my life and lead To my own hardships. No I need not change a damn thing. I am a strong and well adjusted individual for what ive gone through. I am everything I want to be and more.

I guess you live a life that allows you to have beliefe. If only we could all have that priviledg.

I am very sorry to hear that and I feel for you and understand the pain you feel. I was sexually abused as a child and that trauma led me to a dark place and I found myself hopeless and hooked on a cocktail of drugs that completely wrecked my life.

I wanted to die and I cursed God up and down and got to the point where I felt dead inside and that’s when I reached out to Jesus Christ and gave my sorrows to him and begged for the wisdom and mercy of God. I then had a spiritual epiphany and felt the presence of a loving God in my heart. It was truly a miracle. I died inside and was born again.

I really can’t explain how much this changed my life and attitude in general. I would be dead if not for the grace of Christ.

You have my utmost respect and you are truly brave and strong for being able to pull yourself up. I wasn’t that strong and needed help. We all have our own ways of dealing with trauma and I do not judge you at all for the way you feel. I wish you the best for the future and admire your courage. I apologize if I have offended you in anyway. You are solid in my book!

I apologize for my abbrasiveness.

I can fully understand how you interpreted what you went through the way you did. I will say that you are the strength you felt. The belief simply gave you the courage/confidence to change, in my not so humble opinion anyways.

Regardless of our beliefs we are family in pain. I'm glad you are still here. I love you.

That touched me, got a little dust in me eye. I love you as well and feel free to DM me anytime if you want to shoot the shit or just vent. Much love, cheers my friend!

Planes don’t fly at 39,000km... they fly at 39,000 feet. Big difference.

not everyone is a quantum scientist or ee. most of us need an eli5 for stuff like this

Plato was right and Newton is part of the scam.

lol. Anti-intellectualism in action.

Plato was a true intellectual. Newton was a Satan worshipping fool. There is much more truth in ancient text than in modern ones. We have been deliberately dumbed down, and that is pure fact.

Do you guys just get off on talking out of your ass?

I'm actually sitting here reading some anon calling Isaac Newton a fool.

But that's not even what gets me. You called him a "Satan worshipping fool". This shows clearly that you don't know a single thing about Newton. The man did not believe in the existence of Satan, the devil or demons and you'd know this if you actually read a book or two instead of just spouting nonsense.

Like I said the further you go back; the more truth you will find. Newton is part of a Satanic conspiracy to hide God. He put much energy into satanic principles whether he was aware of it or not.

Confronted with the facts, the true believer simply ignores them and doubles down.

You don’t have facts you have dogma.

You just accused Newton of unwittingly being a Satanist. That Sir/Ma'am is DOGMA.

Unfortunately, we all give energy to the Saturnian control matrix, some more than others, but that is the problem we face.

Money is the god of our civilization. In god we trust, no? But which god are we trusting? I don’t see any Christian symbols on our money, but I do see Saturnian symbols on our money.

One cannot serve two masters. You can’t serve money and God. We are all second hand Satanists and we all are unwittingly giving our time and energy to the dark one.

Yeah how dare people look behind the curtain, and question god?

Nah, it's just neocons and religious extremists joining hands to gather some sweet new age mumbo jumbo karma.

The highest form of worship would have to be using the gifts the creator endowed us with in order to understand creation, and thus the creator and ourselves. All the same thing, that's the holy trinity I believe in. Creator, Self, Creation. We're all it, and it's all us.

With evil being the effort to convince that the opposite is true.

Yes, liberation from false belief in a certain single supreme being is surely the work of another supreme being.

I never said want you are mocking me for.

More about "deepities" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aNLADAHyeM

Love Dawkins, but I'm not sitting through an hour video without context.

You don't particularly seem to be engaging with what I'm saying, and that's fine. I'm no zealot, and believe nothing absolutely. More than anything, I was agreeing with you how silly it is to condemn​ the questioning of god. It is through such questioning and examination of god/creation that I feel closest to them.

Have a good one.

What the actual? Satanism has nothing to do with money. Furthermore your comment has nothing to do with my OP. Yes, Masonic/Pagan symbols are everywhere. But what does that have to do with Isaac Newton? And furthermore, quit assuming every lame-brain on Reddit is Spiritual. Your God rhetoric is meaningless gibberish signifying nothing.

Do you ever catch the irony of being a religious person on a conspiracy forum? Religion being the oldest and laziest form of psy op that were aware of. One that you've unabashedly bought hook, line, and sinker? It's depressing seeing these threads because I come to this form to find other people are awake. Yet you're here telling woken people to focus on the dreams

I didn’t find religion my friend. I experienced the raw power of the Prime Creator of all things and it changed my life and brought me peace and wisdom that made me whole.

I thought I was “woke” before I had God in my life, but I was a lost, depressing, asshole. There is higher dimensional power that we all can tap into, and when you do it will change you for good. Everybody’s path is different and some find enlightenment by other means, but Jesus Christ is my personal savior and I highly recommend anyone who is feeling lost to reach out to Him.

Both can be true simultaneously, in their respective circumstances. Stop with this disinfo.

Not really, Plato’s ideas are not congruent with Newtonian physics.

Plato also didn't have an understanding of where the sun went at night...

Neither does NASA

Ever fire a gun before?

Lmao "losing credibility each day" yet every single engineer in the world has been using it for hundreds of years.

I'm pretty sure this person isn't serious and this is actually to discredit legitimate conspiracy facts by listing them along with nonsense.

I don't doubt that Nasa has fudged information, and faked bits of evidence to hide the truth among genuine material... But when you got people like OP who post overwhelmingly large disinfo links like this (there's plenty of multiple-hour-long videos in his post - who has the time to watch all those?!) then it's a clear effort to discredit genuine criticism as absolute dismissal.

Exactly. Smells like disinfo.

Or these folks are just genuinely insane.

great post

This is probably the greatest post I've come across on r/conspiracy in my 10+ yrs of being on Reddit.

Thank you!

The greatest collection of NASA truths and hoaxer lies.

Why do you reply to every comment? Shill fuck.

I tend to only respond to the most infuriantingly stupid ones.

Ok Mr Gullible.

Have you ever heard about disinfo?

Yes. It's what NASA and the CIA did in 69 to make the world think that they won the space race. Many many people fell for it. You're one of them. Have a good day. Bye.

That's embarrassing. First off, you refuse to even entertain the thought that OP contains boatloads of disinformation, or at the very least, misleadingly wrong information. Then you fail to argue any point, instead throwing a sort of tantrum, finishing off with an odd assertion that I was alive and being fooled by CIA in 1969.

STICK! You can here the reeeee's from shills in here, must be good!

Hi, can you please answer me this one simple question.

What is gained by NASA or the government by lying about space exploration?

Jack Parsons, Crowley and Mars.

All right, WTF, those ISS footage videos are fucking ghetto as hell, what is up with all of that. I'm shook

That is the style to get the ignorant kids of today.

What do you mean by them being ghetto??

I'm saying that those videos do seem very fake, and I'm inclined to believe NASA is faking them for whatever reason. I'm not a 'flat-earther' (I'm not one of those people who gets weirdly pissed off at people who think the Earth is flat though), but bizarre footage is bizarre footage.

"Seem" being the key word here. Many of those bullshit perspective videos try and claim things they hardly understand. For example, and yes this is but only one example, the ISS footage where buddy is going on about the iss vs plane footage and the rates that things are moving is simply perspective. a plane only ~100 km in the air is so different from the iss, which is literally thousands of times more distant, that they are literaly incomparable when speaking in perspective. lay some objects on your desk and sit almost eye level with the desk and view these items as you would be "coming into land" on the desk. now do so 3 feet above the desk. the objects do not have nearly the same perspectives.

Many of these videos are done well enough to convince those who think about the piece instead of the whole.

I mean, yeah, I know to be suspicious of these videos as the claims grow more and more complicated, but the video where the astronaut picks up a non-existent object and puts it on the shelf...what the FUCK is that dude. Or where the 3 astronauts all simultaneously glitch out of the video but the background is fine...

I missed those I suppose. I didnt have time to go through everything. Ill try and go back and watch when I'm home afyer work. If you hsve a link thatd be faster. I can't say ill explain it to your satisfaction but I'm sure theres an occams razor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhL7y0ahUE&feature=youtu.be&t=10m24s

The part with the non-existent object starts around 11:10.

Awesome, cheers.

I can be a prick, others can be bigger pricks. I'm glad this is going civil. I will return with some sort of attempt to reason.

Ok so heres my take on this video. Its cut to make it seem this way. Watch the full video of these two astronaughts and see how the one fella constantly readjusts his hadns to clasp them together and in the instance of him "faking to use a digital object" is simply letting go to clasp his hands and stoping to grab the bar again because he starts to move. The thought that they are being suspended is thrown away by the one guy doing both a twirl and a back tuck in the full video which is impossibly to simulate zero g with these moves since you would need to be suspended and supported from many different areas. And the guy in back simply has a loose Velcro strap hanging off his back. They all use Velcro to keep things on their person instead floating. I didnt see them glitch in and out of frame though, ill look further later!

Huh, that's interesting. Even if it's cut, his arm motions are really unnatural/bizarre, wouldn't you say? I don't move my hands/arms like that to clasp my hands or balance on something.

The glitching astronauts is a different video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS0VN056d68&feature=youtu.be&t=10s

I find that really strange too.

Weve also never been in zero g. Or at least I havent. I would think many movements would be unnatural as were used to a certain amount t of upward force to move ourselves anywheres.

That glitch in the video happens a lot in older digital technology thats relaying from far away. Ive seen that exact same glitch happen during the live newscasting of the bombing of Afghanistan if memory serves.

I know I don't sound like I'm being objective, but these are honestly how I see the events as in the realm of occums razor.

I mean we can literally see the ISS in detail through an amateur telescope...

I find it sad that the "moon landing" hoax has transformed into the entirety of "NASA" hoax.

In leaving, I would suggest anytime you see a video like these you go back to the original uncut documents to see for yourself and make your own opinion. If the idea is preplanted in your brain first, of course you will see it that way. Thats basic psychology.

I hope I'm not being offensive, and i don't mean to be telling you youre wrong. I'm just giving what I see as a valid explanation that I am comfortable accepting.

Interesting points, I can tell you've been in very heated arguments before about this kind of stuff lol. I'll never understand why people will passionately be on one side of the fence or the other regarding things they truly can't know. I find it all very fascinating and my natural inclination is to be skeptical of the skeptics. Obviously, there's been a mountain of weird, shady shit that's happened throughout history that was either successfully covered up or is in the process of being covered up. According to the skeptics, the mainstream narrative is true for literally everything- they might accept that some things are lies in a general sense, but on any individual point, they'll believe the mainstream version. Well...where are the lies then?

The lies are still all around us. The food pyramid for one is an absolute travesty that was made by selling to the highest bidder, not by whats best for us medically. Thats on the big bruv and the rich elite who lied.

For me anyways, there is enough lies elsewhere and around us to keep us enslaved to the system (rent/mortgage, low wages, etc.) They don't need to lie about space. I can however see why one would believe otherwise too.

The food pyramid for one is an absolute travesty

Bitch, don't get me started on that. It's actually retarded how much better I felt when I essentially cut carbs/fake food out of my life.

People will think you're suffering a fucking psychotic break if you say that corn isn't a health food, or that maybe raw spinach isn't the best thing ever to eat all the time (hello, kidney stones), or that maybe we like fatty meat so much because, gasp, our bodies can use it well.

It fucking terrifies me that the thought leaders/policy leaders will let the world continue down the obesity/diabetes epidemic pathway rather than just come out and say that Cheezits and Velveeta grilled cheese sandwiches are toxic because like a handful of people would lose money. And everyone just goes along with it! People actually convince themselves that dogshit, bland, potato chips mass-fried in the shittiest, most flavorless vegetable oil available is some amazing treat! They'll pay as much per calorie for these awful chips as for a ribeye steak!

WTF

More money in lying and keeping the general pop fat and unhealthy. How would the people create a working militia of men who cant run a mile or pull themselves over a wall?

On the other hand, font count carbohydrates out completely! Natural sugar and complex carbohydrates are very good for the body for energy and muscle developement. All natural or homemade pastas, breads, and other such products can be good for you if using non bleached, all natural ingredients. But store bought is like the mcdonalds of food.

As more and more people in the United States are doubting that the earth is a globe and NASA really goes to space, other countries are focusing on science education. If you Americans really want to b great again you need to stop with focusing on conspiracies and start developing new science and technology.

Yes, rockets work in space, ffs. Ya'll need to spend more time reading about space. It's fucking cool as hell, and you guys are missing out by not learning anything about it. For thousands of generations, humans wondered what was going on up there, well, now we finally have some really amazing tech that's helping us find out. You're one of the first generations of humans to be able to learn about this stuff, but you're so god damn proud of your ignorance that you're gonna miss it. Sucks to be you guys, living in your paranoid delusion with no understanding of the real universe.

Reddit has tons of subreddits dedicated to science and space. I urge you to expand your mind by learning something real, instead of assuming that some random tin-foiler on youtube is the keeper of secret truths.

Haha strong cognitive dissonance. Spent a load of time learning made up shit, now it's too uncomfortable to realise that's exactly what it was. You have invested in this belief, it made you feel /iamverysmart. Bet you know all the Star Trek facts too eh.

Star Trek is dead. Star Wars is dead. And now you say you wanna take space away? From my cold, dead hands, ya silly bugga!

what makes you so sure that you learned the "right" things?

I'm not sure at all, friend. One thing for sure is there is deception afoot.

This post gave me cancer faster than a chemtrail administered cup-of-cheese style.

your comment made me wanna go to the toilet

NASA is like 911....all the answers are right in your face but yet you have the sheep calling you a crazy motherfucker.

When 1+1=2 but have the majority claiming it equals 6 you know you're being hoodwinked.

JFK wasn't a conspiracy it was just one CIA dude with a rifle in a book depository with a magic gun. 2+2=3

Crazy guy buys a shitload of fertilizer and somehow destroys an reinforced government building from 30 yards away..oh...and they found a couple IEDs in the building. Oh and McCrazys defence team wasn't allowed access to the site afterwards....3+1=9.

You know your being screwed when you have 60 posts with answers like...you're dumb...or...yeah..we already debunked that with nonsense responses.

I swear...logic people....simple logic. You know you're on the right track when the debate turns complete retard.

You know your being screwed when you have 60 posts with answers like...you're dumb...or...yeah..we already debunked that with nonsense responses.

There is another possibility. It involves logic.

Yeah, that was my last sentence if u read my post

There is the possibility that you are wrong, and the many critical posts are because most of the list is long debunked bullshit.

Let's try without any help and debunk the link Equipment Falling As If It's On Earth showing three gifs of astronauts on the Moon.

1. The grainy gif shows two astronauts doing whatever with some tripods, some wire and some stick in the ground. One of them is careless and a tripod is knocked over, in a way that could resemble it falling in Earth's gravity. So it was filmed in a studio.

Or maybe, just maybe the astronaut simply tripped over some wires and that pulled the tripod. An accident, but not something only explained by them being in a studio.

1. Again two astronauts (pop quiz: how was this filmed, who operated the zoom?) This time they are running, when what looks like a moon rock falls from a backpack, supposedly like it would in 1g. Hollywood confirmed.

Or it could simply be that the rock fell at that speed, because the movement of the astronaut and backpack gave the rock a downwards trajectory.

1. Getting bored with this link already. But okay the astronaut is helped back on his feet and somehow drops a moon rock. It lands suspisciously faster than you might expect. Two birds with one clip, or just an uncritical mind faced with no better conclusion than the one given in the title?

As it turns out, the astronaut has what looks like moon rocks in his backpack. In better quality versions of this scene, you can actually see the rock popping up from the compartment and hitting the shoulder area of the astronaut before getting propelled away, so it was already moving down, and is now heading away to the left and towards us. Do rocks behave this way on Earth? But more importantly, why didn't the astronauts close their bags properly?

And it's all like this. Every single 350 items of suspect FE cryto-fascist, pseudo-religious brain-damage-dealing doses, sent straight from someone who probably don't know shit, and don't mean you and me well :)

Well my question to you is how in the Fuck did we manage to "go to the moon" within a couple years in the 60s after planning it and here we are in 2018 and all NASA has offered us in that time is a fucked up ghetto rigged space station...

The thing is fucking laughable...after 100s of millions of tax payer money that piece of shit is all they have to offer us?

The whole idea of getting to the moon would be a phenomenal feat and by now we should have fucking hotels on the thing by now .

But yet...no need to go back and research the thing....been there...done that...

And you most definitely believe we sent a rover to mars on the first couple tries. The data being sent back would most definitely be time delayed a significant among of time and the odds of wall-e landing a perfect 10 and has been cruising around with zero problems is insane.

And there's the good ole every picture from space of the earth is a composite should tell you something right there along with the fact the shuttle has never had a single problem docking to the ISS at 17,000 mph.... People can barely merge onto a highway at 50mph without crashing but yet we have never had an issue with the whole docking bill shit....

It's just my opinion...If you were in charge wouldn't you have explored the moon more than we have?

But yet the greatest feat to date is to continue to fly in circles(in low earth orbit) With a rigged up tin can?

Please....

Oh my. Where to begin?

Basically, all you wrote is wrong, misguided and frankly laughable.

No, not misguided...just simple common sense. I live in the real world..not in a fantasy land

What do you think is the most convincing link posted here? I don't have time to look at them all

So true 💚

Damn, quite the compilation. To the skeptics saying this isn't all credible: if 10% is true, that means the jig is up and we're being lied to. Pretty profound.

How about you choose a handful of those 350 links which you think is most believable, and I'll argue that they are 100% bullshit. Does that prove that NASA never lies? No, but it makes you wonder if perhaps, perhaps the entire 350 links are bullshit propaganda lies.

A lot of this is already known and heavily researched. You can claim bullshit all you want along with NdT and joe Rogain. It's really obvious once you understand the science and evidence behind it.

You mean by not understanding science, you can lop up the clearly nonsense junk in those links?

Apparently all you need to prove to yourself that NASA is wrong and FE correct, is to not ever take a math or physics class.

Conversely, the only way to continue to believe in the globe is if you have limited knowledge about human eyesight and basic math. But that's fine if you want to be uneducated, it's your choice.

Your weak retort does not even make sense, not that I expected it to. Why would you need human eyes? Can't you just take a picture of the curve and look at that? I'll stop before having to go into your beliefs about atmospheric refraction not being a real physical phenomenon.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEiDGyfM50

Here's the proof of the phenomenon and that it is not curvature.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEiDGyfM50

Proof of phenomenon I explained here.

Evidence that curvature does not obscure boats.

Can you show me a picture you've taken that shows obvious curvature?

If it was heading away, then at a certain point, the boat would disappear. How did you explain those other videos of ships disappearing beyond the horizon I wonder.

Another question: do you realize how fucking big the Earth is, how high you would need to be to take a picture of the curve? It's higher than I've ever been. But you can put one on a rocket like V2, or put one on a balloon yourself.

You're right, and people have clearly seen a flat horizon at over 120 thousand ft. That is over 4 times the height of a commercial flight.

But you don't need that height to otherwise infer the curve's existence.

You shouldn't have to infer the curvature exists.

So you occupy yourself with philosophical exercises on the topic of the limits of reason and certainty, but you are uncomfortable about inferring stuff? The level of proof you demand, would involve you somehow getting a seat (two are available) on the coming Falcon Heavy launch. Following release of the cargo, you should be able to see the curve in the rear-view mirror.

In some of these flat earthers minds, rockets and space literally don't even exist. So if you put one of them on a rocket, they'd claim you drugged them and made their mind hallucinate.

No space travel is required to prove this. So we can throw that line of reasoning out the window. With space, it's a circular argument. You cannot prove it's real, I cannot prove it is false. But we both believe either side because of our belief systems.

Now to prove this without space travel, we would obviously just need to go to the south pole. Simple enough, although you must first have approval to do so. And before you introduce the straw man argument and claim that NASA has armed guards circling Antarctica, that is ridiculously overkill. With the capabilities of surveillance (everyone has a working mic and GPS in their pockets) that simply wouldn't be needed.

So you could prove it's a globe to yourself by flying over the south pole and coming back around the globe. If it does not wrap back around (seen by missing curvature) then it is not a globe and you've been lied to.

So, it's quite simple to prove. Yet, no one has attempted to prove the globe with a continuous live stream going around the south pole. I find this strange as this debate has being going on for centuries. So if there was proof, shouldn't it be widely disseminated by now?

If you can't accept the "best judgement" proof of a relatively cheap experiment, like sending a balloon with a camera ~20 miles up and filming a clear curve, then comparing that footage to the calculated expected view obtained from the given height and knowing the Earth's size, I won't try to convince you otherwise.

There are so many ways you can infer the roundness and rotation of the Earth. I mean people have been circumnavigating the bloody thing for 500 years. There's day and night, seasons, solar eclipse shadows on the Earth, moon eclipse shadows on the Moon, the fact that can calculate the width of it by looking at the suns position and knowing the distance between two places on the surface, like the greek did. These indirect "proofs" are too numerous to mention, but suffice to say, that flat earth or similar pseudo-religious, regressive ideas have yet to manifest any plausible theory or mathematical model that explains the wealth of phenomena related to a round Earth.

Well, when I see amateurs and "professionals" come back with far different data from the high altitude balloons you speak of. I know there is an issue. Do you think the earth changes it's curvature? If not, then one of the two parties has to be deceiving.

Circumnavigation is easily done on a flat earth. Look up the astrolabe. It's literally how they navigated perfectly before GPS based on the fixed rotating heavens.

They inferred the proof when they realized that they couldn't see boats as they went out into the distance. This was a good guess, but now we can prove that to not be the reason at all. This is undeniable proof of this fact. No amount of hand waving can change observable repeatable evidence.

It's weird how much misinformation some of you guys get going on about. Like, I had someone tell me flight paths work better on a globe....

In 2015, a flight from Bali, Indonesia to Los Angeles had to emergency land since a women prematurely gave birth 6 hours into the flight. Look at a globe and tell me where you think they emergency landed. The truth will set you free.

You talk a lot of talk, but when it comes to actually explaining in any detail and showing others the reasoning behind these to you evident truths, nothing what so ever is presented.

Instead of answering, you ask the usual funny questions like why an airplane wouldn't always follow the absolute shortest on a globe. Do you know the regulations of commercial flights? It's perfectly reasonable to fly over land and along certain routes, to better survive emergency situations. It seems you failed to understand this, and strangely enough for a flat earther, you have even failed to understand map projections, which would directly show you why flying a northern route to LA would also make sense fuelwise.

How on the round Earth does an ancient deprecated device help prove a flat Earth? It's evident that other models of the solar system, like the geocentric, worked just fine for some stuff, but the flat earth idea has no such attraction - no evidence (at least you haven't presented any), no model that accounts for everyday observations or scientific experiments. It's precisely what handwaving looks like - a clear indication of a cult mindset.

The issue is you've been given excuses for the issues with the globe, but fail to see how scientism's answers for these are illogical.

You are acting like a religious zealot about something you don't believe in, have you ever asked yourself why flat earth is the only topic that fits that category?

You are being dishonest at best and deceiving at worst if you believe you have seen evidence for a globe earth. But please, try and explain your "proof" that you've discovered. You would be a famous man if you had actually found the missing curvature.

Once you have an understanding of angular resolution compared to magnification, logically the ball falls apart like wet paper.

Just a basic understanding of how the human eye works is all that is required.

Riiiiiight

That's the right attitude at least. You need to be skeptical if you want to find any truths in this world. Your on the right track.

Here's the proof. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEiDGyfM50

Because this hasn't been debunked 1000 times over?

Please explain how you think this has been debunked.

its not over the horizon. its just too small to see without zoom. this is painfully obvious.

Okay, so you are a flat earther?

This video conflicts with the belief that boats disappearing over the horizon prove curvature exists.

In what world does what I said imply i'm a flat earther?

I said the video is showing a ship, that has not yet fallen below the horizon, is.. amazingly, still visible.

The video "debunks" nothing because, as I said, the ship has not passed under the horizon. Had it been, you would not see it.

You don't understand the significance. That's fine. Carry on.

Physics r hard

Perspective and angular resolution are harder for most.

For flat earthers, yes.

Have a nice Friday night.

I love friday nights

What in the fuck? You think that video proves flat Earth? Holy shit

Only if you understand what you're seeing. Most people won't have a single thought when seeing it.

Lmao

https://imgur.com/a/3Hy7N

Do you see any boats in the water that are in front of the curvature?

The damn boats simply weren't far enough away verses the elevation perspective of the camera. God damn

Wait what? They weren't far enough for what? This response doesn't make sense the slightest.

They were up higher than the boats. This is ridiculous. Do you not understand anything ? Nothing about this video is weird or out of place.

If the earth is flat, your statement is correct. You fail to understand how they started to believe the crazy idea of a ball.

It's okay. Can't all get it the first time around. I would be surprised if your cognitive dissonance let you. 100% normal response. Not even being funny, just an observation.

No mother fucker the Earth is huge. The curve is very fucking slight. What I just said works perfectly well with the round earth

How much curve exists in only 10 miles on the globe? Do you even know the curvature?

In ten miles a few feet

Hahaha.... okay. See what I mean? You only think that because you've been on a flat plane in reality your whole life.

In reality, a ball the size of earth would have a drop of 66 feet. At 15 miles, 150 ft. At 30 miles, 600 ft. Google long distance photography that shows a flat plane spanning over 100 miles and show me the 6000 feet of curvature that is missing?

This is verifiable math, that you can proof yourself if you are skeptical. I was skeptical myself, so I had to check the math, and you should.

Lol I know how this works. Everything is a troll. I already proved my point. You we're revealed right there. Not convincing enough.

Haha okay, basic math is a troll now to globers? you we're revealed right there? Lmfao I think you responded to the wrong person.

Nope you are simply a troll. You come up with dumbass ideas that make no sense. You have no evidence at all.

So globers do denounce algebra now? I thought that would happen after looking into orbital mechanics. Seems like the world is starting to wake up.

You have to be skeptical of math to believe in a spinning ball flying at hundreds of thousands of miles an hour.

You my friend are a dumbass lol

How mad does it make you, knowing that you are the one denying simple things like math... this is 2018 and you can't even admit that algebra works anonymously.

It's pretty sad man. Good luck, you obviously need it.

The Earth is rotating dumbass. It isn't a straight line from anywhere to anywhere in a plane. God fucking damn. Do you have no logic at all?

Ask yourself why you aren't getting so worked up over someone that you don't know believing something you don't believe. Do you also hate Jews in Israel based on their beliefs or is this specific to the shape of the world?

Lol straw man finally. I knew it would come up eventually haha

You don't have to look far for a straw man argument when talking about this. It's literally all the globe has, and is also why they much repeat false information.

You have given no evidence. Are you going to? If not stfu

You have given zero evidence and denied that math is real. Why would I find evidence and show it to you? So you can claim it's not real as well? Yeah, that sounds like a really good way to end today's grind. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to at least know what's right and what's not. How do you think they calculate the size of the earth without math anyways? This should be good.

You are the one making the claim so you are the one that has to prove your theory. I claim god is real and Everytime he takes a dump 3 new planets are born. This is true and there is no way you can disprove it.

Sounds like you understand the heliocentric model now! See? that wasn't hard.

100 miles and show me the 6000 feet of curvature

What exactly are you expecting to see ?

Please show me a diagram of what you think we should see if there really was a 6000 feet curvature over 100 miles. I can't picture it in my head, so help me here.

The question is, what should you not be able to see. And the answer is you shouldn't be able to see anything that has a height of under 6000 ft from ground level.

Curvature is the bulge in the water that obscures your vision, at 100 miles, on a globe, anything you can see at that distance has to have 6000 ft of height being obscured by the curvature. So if you can only see the top of a mountain at 100 miles the mountain would be just over 6000 ft high. Keep in mind this is what you should see on a globe. At only 3 miles you are unable to see anyone that is under 6 ft tall.

The question is, what should you not be able to see. And the answer is you shouldn't be able to see anything that has a height of under 6000 ft from ground level.

This sentence is roughly correct, but I would like to emphasize that you correctly mentioned "ground level" in your sentence.

Curvature is the bulge in the water that obscures your vision, at 100 miles, on a globe, anything you can see at that distance has to have 6000 ft of height being obscured by the curvature.

This very similar sentence is now incorrect.

The reason is simple : there is no mention of the altitude of the observer in your second sentence. Yes, There will be 6000 feet hidden by the bulge if your eye is exactly at the level of water.

But if you are only 100 feet over the water, then only 5000 feet should be hidden. If you are 200 feet over water, it's now just 4500 feet that should be hidden. And so on ...

That's because the "bulge" is not 6000 feet high. The bulge is usually defined as the maximal distance between the straight line (going through the spherical earth) and the line going on the surface of the Earth. For a 100 miles distance, the bulge is 1667 feet.

At only 3 miles you are unable to see anyone that is under 6 ft tall.

If I am myself standing over water, then I should be able to see completely someone who is 3 miles away. The 6feet tall guy will be hidden by the curvature, only if my eye is exactly at sea level. (Assuming that the water is perfectly calm, no waves)

Are you really unaware of this, or are you deliberately trying to misguide anyone reading your comments ?

A flight from Bali to LA has to emergency land 6 hours into the flight. Where do they land on a globe and on a flat earth? Where did they land in reality?

This one is good at breaking down the cognitive dissonance.

That depends on the fucking flight path and available options

I told you it is a direct flight from Bali to Los Angeles.

Tell us, what do you see in that video from about 49 to 53 seconds?

I see a boat that has completely been brought back into view through magnification. It was thought that it was behind the curvature, but this proves that was not the case.

If you understood the science you wouldn't hold your position. Space is accessible even to the private sector

Right back at you. Space is just a clever idea used to trick the masses.

Yes, if 90% of the proof posted for something is false and fabricated, obviously the remaining 10% means it must be right. Brilliant.

"If"

1: Toilets are actually nuclear power plants
2: Computers are sentient and plotting to kill us
3: Water is actually a solid
4: There is no such thing as horses
5: You can fast indefinitely and cure all diseases
6: NASA is ran by the "missing" Aztecs and they run rockets off of human sacrifice
7: I'm a trillionaire
8: The sun is actually a reflector; the real light source is the moon
9: 98% of people have committed murder
10: Every night Bill Gates comes into your house and sprinkles some fluoride on you

"If 10% is true" is the most absurdly idiotic thing you can possibly say.

Incredible amount of information and links, thanks for taking the time to make this post!

Good list of links, thanks.

Fantastic collection of information. Looks like I have some reading ahead.

I just want to know if its true that there is NO real picture of earth from space that hasn't been doctored?

Eddie Bravo and others are constantly saying this, but is it true?

I don't know, but what I have hears it that images are transferred via digital encoding and have to be decoded to view them, so technically they are all "doctored". But I don't know if that is true, you would have to do some research.

Short answer: No, it's not true

Long answer: Every photo ever taken is "doctored"

Yes. You cannot leave this plane. Outer space is just a belief system, that says you are meaningless and aliens are coming for your ass. Basically...

Outer space doesn't exist

So, what do you call the shit that's not Earth? Do you believe the Earth is infinite?

Yup. Even the Gizmido 1 is actually an admitted composite of 4 different pictures. I too find this the most headscratching evidence.

Oh man this post is going to have a tsunami of shills and brainwashed members of the false religion of "outer space."

This is racist. China fakes most of their space program too.

Ah, the Gish Gallop, the only surefire way of demonstrating that the opposite of what is being claimed is true.

Reminds me of the Einstein quote in relation to "A Hundred Authors Against Einstein":

• “Why 100 authors? If I were wrong, then one would have been enough!”

Inb4 (((einstein)))

This is a huge dump of links, I'm going to pick out a few to argue.

NASA fails again and again

I see nothing in this video that can constitute a "fail" other than a brief moment of a video compression artifact.

Van Allen Belt, NASA Admits We Haven't Been Past Low Earth Orbit

Video unavailable.

How NASA murdered Gus Grissom

The article in the link claims that "documents prove he died from cyanide poisoning" yet provides no indication of what or where these alleged documents are.

NASA In Hebrew Means "To Deceive"

The article linked actually debunks that claim, the Hebrew word in question is actually pronounced "Nushoh" and the Hebrew spelling for NASA is completely different.

Leaked Documents Prove We Cannot Get Past Radiation Belt

Those documents weren't "leaked", they were just scientific studies on the Van Allen Belt showing the radiation levels. Yes, technically a person could not survive unshielded. But they can get through no problem with proper shielding.

Ex NASA Employee Overhears "I Can't Believe People Believe The Moon Landings Are Real"

Real headline: Contracted janitor overhears people joking. Doesn't question the people. Doesn't follow to hear more of the conversation.

Its Been Claimed That We Can Bounce Lasers Off Of Moon Because Of Reflectors Placed By Astronauts, But In Reality We Can Do It Without Them

Lemme summarize the linked video. The Mythbusters go to a giant NASA laser thing and fire a laser at the surface of the moon then the reflector left by an Apollo mission and compare the differences. A scientist who worked on the laser was contacted by a Flat Earth podcast to discuss this episode, and he confirms that shining a laser on the lunar surface won't reflect the laser to Earth, which is exactly what happened. What's the issue over here?

Those are the only one's I've really examined. It confirms my opinion that most of the rest of these links are probably also just as much BS.

I watched the one comparing in-flight refuelling to docking with the ISS. Utter tosh. Yes, in-flight refuelling is difficult and dangerous, but that involves two aircraft flying close together, trying to match speeds while one manoeuvres in the dirty air of the one it's refuelling from.

Docking with the ISS is obviously performed in a vacuum, and as we all know spacecraft don't fly like aircraft do, so it doesn't matter that they are 'flying' at 17000 mph. It's their speed relative to each other that matters, and docking is performed slowly and carefully.

Also, the one about 'proving' that rockets can't work in a vacuum because there is no oxygen. That'll be why reaction rocket engines have, as part of their fuel, an oxidant, so combustion can take place.

Honestly, how thick are these people?

This is retarded. All of it. And honestly it just reflects badly on the whole idea of conspiracies that are real that this subject keeps getting propagated when it's not remotely the same as other subjects. You can get yourself a damn telescope and see the ISS. Or is that just a holographic projection?

Respect for this compilation!

Yawn, this disinfo list again? Don't you get tired of having it ripped to shreds every time you post it?

I can already tell I want to be friends with OP. Very thorough post 👏

Holy shit. This is grand!

So everybody seems to feel very passionately one way or the other on the space hoax. This has always been an interesting debate for me, because I am an aerospace engineering student at a top university. I have worked with multiple professors who have connections all over NASA and various private spaceflight firms. I also have many peers who have worked and work in space systems through NASA or major corporations subcontracted by NASA. Technologies (allegedly) used in space systems often follow from technologies published as far back as the 50s and 60s, when the first spacecraft developments allegedly began.

I am genuinely interested in a space denier's response to the question: what is if that you think we're all doing?

Are all these people that I personally know, along with myself, just being lied to? Are we just working and collecting salaries for designs that never get implemented? Or, is my whole community conspiring against you all? Are we instead working actively to keep this "hoax" alive? Do you think this very reddit post is part of a psy-op to hide the truth?

I don't think I could argue that this is all real with many of you that have made up your minds. The kinds of sources in the OP go down all sorts of false premises, to draw illogical conclusions stemming from paranoia.

Please, if you disagree with me, at least answer my question

If people actually answer your questions, you'll definitely get a wide array of answers. But I definitely am interested to see if anyone does answer.

It's always fun finding someone else who's an aerospace major on Reddit, and honestly I wonder the same things you do (like, wtf do they think we do?)

Work for a large aerospace manufacturer who is a government contractor, and NASA supplier, with a large commercial segment and we employ thousands of engineers of all types (including many aerospace engineers) around the world. What do flat earthers think these people are doing? They're not covering up anything, they're just doing a lot of math and making sure a bunch of electrical systems function properly.

Hey that's awesome! I'm stuck working retail until I can land a decent internship ha.

The ones I've talked to believed that we all genuinely believe in the work we're doing, but "they" take our work and either make something fake, or the stuff we make is fake to begin with and we don't find out before it gets passed along to "them". But as you and I know, with the amount of testing and checking and whatnot it's not that simple.

I'd just consider people who think like that ignorant, but not stupid. For people who don't work in the industry, don't live near aerospace facilities, or don't care about aerospace, all they know about NASA comes from the odd rocket launch that makes it onto the news, and stuff from YouTube videos. I can understand their perspective, up to a point. I grew up in Florida, so seeing a rocket go up 3 or 4 times a month was just how life is. But then you have people who live in land-locked-wherever, who literally think rockets don't even exist (I've met people like that). I can sympathize, because in all honesty, it is some pretty unbelievable tech... If you know absolutely nothing about how it works lol

I don't think 90% of fuckheads here looked at half the links let alone 1/4 of the links. A lot of it so obvious when you break it down. I think people are just afraid to have their world shattered. Sure, a lot of it seems very "wtf" worthy but when you actually analyze pictures and the rover footage (which are probably the most damning evidence we have to show they at least had a set) you can clearly see something else is at work here.

Until you yourself can somehow break out of our atmosphere and see what is going on out there... We can only take the word of an agency of the executive branch of the United States government to be true...And we know how honest and transparent they are about everything else.

533 people reached Earth orbit, 24 traveled beyond low Earth orbit and 12 walked on the Moon (supposedly)... but that's it... all the rest of us have no actual clue what is going on out there and we have to realize we're all just trusting our governments for information.

So, I welcome all of these links!

Are you saying the moon landing was faked? Lmfao

You do realize that Russia, the UK, France, Iran, Japan, India, Korea, and a few others have all launched satellites, right? Several have sent probes to other planets. The US does not have a monopoly on space. I think of all countries, the religious zealots that run the Islamic Republic of Iran would love to expose the big lie. I guess they're under the control of "the Jews" as well.

u/nbatman thank you for this compilation. I can tell you did a massive amount of work putting this together. I felt like going down the moon hoax wormhole tonight before seeing this. I've enough material here now for several weeks worth of viewing. Thanks again - it's appreciated

Cross post to r/moonhoax? Its small and a tad dead but could use this, as it is very dedicated.

Still watching, sound nuts, but....who is not nuts in a degree?

I always like the ones that try to find a significance in some numbers ...

Earth Apparently Moves At 66,600mph

No, the speed of the Earth around the Earth is not constant, and varies between the aphelion and perihelion.

In Standard units, that's between 29300 m.s^-1 and 30300 m.s^-1

In strange units that are not used outside a few countries, this gives a speed between 65542 mph and 67799 mph.

With a range of speed this large, it's not really interesting to point the fact that it contains a certain number that fits certain arbitrary criterion.

With An Axis Of Rotation Of 66.6,

I guess that this refers to the tilt of the Earth compared to the Ecliptic. The tilt is 23.43695°. For an unknown reason, Flat earth people want to compute the complementaray angle of 90°-23.43695 = 66.56305°

Not that interesting when you use the actual number.

Curvature Of One Square Mile Is 66.6,

I have honestly no idea what this means. But again it's using strange units that are not used outside a few countries.

Astronaut Peggy Whitson Recorded 666-Days In Space,

No. Only 665 days and 22hours

And what about the other astronauts ? I guess 534 and 321 were less interesting numbers ...

National Aeronautics And Space Administration Is 666 In Gematria.

Not really.

It's 1607 in Jewish gematria, it's 2646 in english gematria and 441 in Simple Gematria which are the standard way of doing gematria. To obtain 666 you have to use the "reverse ordinal" cipher which is a quite obscure way of doing Gematria.

I actually found a website where you can compute the "Gematria" with 27 different ciphers. At some point, people have to understand that this is completely meaningless. With this huge number of possibility, it's not surprising that some expression turns out to give a desired number in one of the 27 different ciphers.

holy shit half these sources are garbage youtube videos...

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I'm saying that none of these posts have remotely credible information.

Is it because you dont understand the science behind it? Sometime there is big scary boogie man behind things.

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

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I think he might be saying that only the ignorant would believe the bullshit in those videos.

You felt overwhelmed by a list of clickable links? If you wish to debunk OP (you’ve called this a debate so I presume that’s what you’d like to do if you weren’t so overwhelmed) then I’d suggest starting with the first one and working through them one by one. It wouldn’t be too hard for a genius like you who knows what fish gallop means.

Sure, but what does that have to do with OP if you're not debating or arguing against any of the points? If you are feeling overwhelmed, start with debating one point. If you're not going to argue any of the points at all, then your comment is a non sequitur.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

“Bullshit” is a term for a technique used by NASA to overwhelm the masses with as much fallacy as possible without ever giving a straight answer to the public’s questions.

I clicked the Apollo 16 video. Cool footage.

Gish gallop mixed with disinfo to make NASA critics look like crazies. This is garbage.

lol this guy's purchased and brigaded upvotes aren't working for him.

Thanks, I understand where the doubters are coming from bc I used to be in their shoes. I just hope they start to find their own truths bc humanity will continue to suffer if we allow authorities to dictate our reality.

Shh don't ask difficult questions you'll get down voted :)

It’s only real if you believe!! I am not the only one who has discovered this. It’s been written in ancient texts and quantum physics is only rediscovering this universal truth. Don’t take it from me. Look yourself.

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How exactly is the OP "overwhelming one's opponent with as many arguments as possible" when he/she isn't arguing against anyone, merely offering resources on a particular subject.

Why the fuck is this the top comment?

Literally any technical question relating to the Apollo program.

They claim it has all been lost or "accedentially" deleated, I am not even making this up, there is zero actual scientific literature available for researchers to validate NASA's moon landing claims

How do the stars look, from outer space?

This simple question indeed has been answered many times.

In the following clip, for example the subject comes up in different occasions and the answers are all contradictory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKqy4dyoJKo&t=1074s

No, the argument here is why he would specifically choose that quote to put on his final resting place.

You are really not gonna get to me with your manipulative way of discussing things. I'm perfectly aware of what you are doing here, and it's not gonna work on me.

The facts are on the table. NASA claims they cant pass the Van Allen belt, yet they supposedly did so with the Apollo moon mission. There is the cutting point and anyone who is an honest person with a critical mind in search of the truth will start questioning NASA...not the person who observed this inconsistency. Which is what you are doing here and what you are gonna continue to do here.

Rule 10

What do you base your understanding of quantum mechanics on? I've actually talked to a fair number of theoretical physicists and I don't think I've ever come across someone who shares your theory.

A lot of this is already known and heavily researched. You can claim bullshit all you want along with NdT and joe Rogain. It's really obvious once you understand the science and evidence behind it.

That's exactly what he's doing haha. The voting is so obvious, great job OP.

Conversely, the only way to continue to believe in the globe is if you have limited knowledge about human eyesight and basic math. But that's fine if you want to be uneducated, it's your choice.

Intent affects results? I believe it does.

Again, in order to observe a particle, you have to physically interact with it. Interaction in order to measure quantities is what is being referred to as "observation" in the article you linked and that interaction is what collapses the wave function and makes photons act like particles.

Also, the placebo effect,

The brain controls the entire body, why do you need some sort of "quantum nature" for it to be able to affect how the body works?

Haha well I just thought there were thousands flying around and that it wouldn't be too much of a task to shut all of us up for all time by producing a simple picture. It wouldn't take much time or money.

How do you take a picture of a satellite? Are you saying it would be impossible?

Neither does NASA

The lies are still all around us. The food pyramid for one is an absolute travesty that was made by selling to the highest bidder, not by whats best for us medically. Thats on the big bruv and the rich elite who lied.

For me anyways, there is enough lies elsewhere and around us to keep us enslaved to the system (rent/mortgage, low wages, etc.) They don't need to lie about space. I can however see why one would believe otherwise too.

You shouldn't have to infer the curvature exists.

They were up higher than the boats. This is ridiculous. Do you not understand anything ? Nothing about this video is weird or out of place.

I told you it is a direct flight from Bali to Los Angeles.

I never said want you are mocking me for.