Israel calls itself the Jewish state. It promotes the interests of Jewish people and gives preferences to Jews -- even foreign born Jews -- over the interests of non-Jewish Israeli citizens. Israel was founded by and has expanded it's borders by ethnically cleansing Arab Muslims and Jews from Palestine so the territory can be given to Jews, many of whom are foreigners to Israel.

Israel is for the Jews. Period. No one is going to be fooled by claims that being anti-Israel has nothing to do with Jews.

They have a population of goy non-citizens that's practically as large as Israel itself living under martial law for more than 50 years, consigned to refugee camps just a stone's throw away from their homes which were confiscated to give to Jews.

It’s the PLO that won’t let the Palestinians out of the refugee camps

Listen to what Bibi said to CNN in Davos yesterday - Basically, he will never let any Palestinian live in his "kingdom".

That's ok but they have to start allowing the law of return to ethic black jews.

They do. There was controversy over Ethiopians once because they have a very dubious lineage in terms of relation to the old Israeli tribes but bottom line is they practice Judaism and there are a lot of them in Israel now.

the law of return applies to any jew, regardless of their skin color or country of origin

That article is about African refugees, not Jews. It even states in the article that African Jews are given immediate asylum.

read the article.

I think what OP is saying is that it is possible to be against the actions and course of the Israeli government without being anti-semitic.

Saying "what the israeli government and military is doing to Palestinian civilians and territory is a horrible crime" is not an anti-semitic statement!

OP isn't saying it has nothing to do with Jews. He's saying that being opposed to the actions of "the Jewish state" is not logically equivalent to hating Jews.

I have Jewish friends. I have Jewish friends who think Netanyahu is an enormous dickhole and that Israel should calm their tits. What OP says is correct - it's got nothing to do with Jewish heritage or tradition, and everything to do with the actions of a state lead by a few individuals bent on doing horrible shit, using "anti-semitism" as a smoke screen to cover their crimes.

If someone in Denmark says "gosh it sucks that America is (was) selling bajillions of dollars of weapons to Saudi Arabia, seeing as the sauds just use those weapons to kill yemeni kids...", That statement doesn't equate to saying "I hate all Americans."

But if you say "gosh Israel is being awful mean to Palestine" you get throttled with accusations of anti-Semitism. OP is just pointing out the logical falicy of that line of thinking.

If that's the case the OP is miscontruing the real meaning of the term anti-semite. Many people think an anti-semite is someone who hates Jews, but it is not. An anti-semite is someone the Jews hate because what he says or does is not in the interest of their fellow Jews.

I don't think that's accurate. A cursory Google search of the term reveals pretty quickly that in conventional usage it means "a person who is hostile or prejudiced against Jews."

An anti-semite is someone the Jews hate

this is nowhere near the standard colloquial definition that 99% of people intend in non-academic conversations. Trying to redefine the word out of context is misleading.

Almost like something an anti-Semite would do.

It took me a long time, an incident at my school, and a lot of talking to people I respected to realize that Zionism and the support for Israel is different from being Jewish. And I'm Jewish. That's how strong the bond is.

They certainly go a long way to brainwash... the Zionists are a political ideology that have subverted Judaism for their own aims. They don't care about Judaism, except as a tool for their political greed.

I'm glad that you recognize the distinction. Your voice carries extra weight in this discussion, given your cultural background. The more people who realize that legitimate criticism of the Israeli government is not by default anti-semitic, the better everyone is able to separate constructive critique from actual anti-Semitism (which, of course, does exist mixed into the greater stream of discourse on the topic).

Very well put.

Thanks :)

It's definitely a delicate topic, but it's important that people recognize the distinction between legitimate criticism and bigotry. Calling every critique of Israel "anti-semitic" just dilutes the meaning of the term and adds substantial confusion to the overall dialogue.

This is bullshit. Assassinating Iranian scientists has nothing to do with Jews. Attacking flotillas has nothing to to with Jews. Manipulating Western politics through lobbying groups and the media has nothing to do with Jews. Illegally drilling for oil in Syria and displacing the people in Golan Heights has nothing to do with Jews. Fuck Israel is not an anti-Semitic statement. States are not people.

Fuck Israel.

This is bullshit. Assassinating Iranian scientists has nothing to do with Jews.

Assassinating Iranian scientists has everything to do with making Israeli Jews feel safe.

Attacking flotillas has nothing to to with Jews.

The flotilla was there to break a siege imposed by Israeli Jews.

Manipulating Western politics through lobbying groups and the media has nothing to do with Jews.

You're kidding me, right? All this manipulation is to advance Jewish ethnic interests.

Illegally drilling for oil in Syria and displacing the people in Golan Heights has nothing to do with Jews.

Yes it does. It's about taking Syrian oil and land and giving it to Israeli Jews.

Fuck Israel is not an anti-Semitic statement. States are not people.

Ask Alan Dershowitz about this.

Fuck Israel.

I agree.

You just have to shoehorn the J word in there; you could just as well remove it entirely. All those actions were in order to protect or profit Israel as a state; nothing to do with religion. What does drilling for oil have to do with God? It's about wealth. You really think Likud would be happy with dissolving the state if it meant Judaism thriving worldwide? They'd sooner execute every Jew in the country. It's a smokescreen, and apparently an effective one.

You just have to shoehorn the J word in there; you could just as well remove it entirely. All those actions were in order to protect or profit Israel as a state; nothing to do with religion.

If you remove Jews from the discussion you remove any rational understanding of why the Israeli state does what it does. Israel is a state that serves to advance the interest of Jews.

Golan heights. Acquired in war with Syria in 1967, with no agreement (or even discussion) between the syrian and israeli's for the interim 60 years. With the Syrians (with iranian help) funding hezbollah to terrorize and threaten the israeli northern towns. hmm. I guess it is all Israel's fault (compare to the Sinai returned after peace agreement)

Of course it's Israel's fault! They're the ones who are illegally occupying Syrian territory for decades on end.

I somehow doubt asking JIDF nicely will accomplish anything.

Israel is a religion as much as it is a country. Some nations are more steeped in ideology than others. Israels existence is based on an ideology more than a real history.

Zionism and Judaism are entirely different ideologies.

Have you heard of a Venn diagram?

And what part of Judaism is not infatuated with the land of the temple in Jerusalem, pray tell?

Real Jews obey God who forbade the Jews from creating a state of Israel until Jesus comes. They don’t believe he came yet and have obeyed this for thousands of years. The state of Israel was created and run by Zionists posing as Jews in order to have credibility and a way to defend against those who oppose their policies. They accuse the opposers of being antisemite ( like the nazis).

What?? Lol. Jesus??? Jesus doesn’t exist in Judaism. The state of Israel is the Torah.

Biblical Verses Saying that the Jewish People Will be Gathered in from Exile Only When the Messiah Comes

Isaiah 11:1-12 A royal scepter will emerge from the stock of Jesse, and a sapling will sprout from his roots. The spirit of G-d will rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and power, the spirit of knowledge and fear of G-d… And it shall come to pass on that day, that the L-rd will once again acquire the rest of His people…and He will gather the dispersed of Israel, and the scattered of Judah He will gather from the four corners of the earth.

Ezekiel 37:21-24 So says the L-rd G-d, behold I will take the Children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from all sides, and I will bring them to their land…and My servant David will be king over them, one shepherd will be for all of them.

Talmudic Sources Saying that Jews Are Forbidden to Return from Exile on Their Own and Create a State

Tractate Kesubos 111a The Biblical book Song of Songs says: “I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles or the deer of the field, not to arouse or awaken the love before it is desired.” This oath occurs three times in the Song of Songs (2:7, 3:5 and 8:4). The Talmud interprets this metaphorical language to mean as follows: the speaker here is G-d, and the “daughters of Jerusalem” are the Jewish people and the nations of the world. During the Jewish exile, which began with the destruction of the Temple in the year 69 CE, G-d placed three oaths upon the world, two upon the Jewish people and one upon the nations. The Jewish people were foresworn not to immigrate as a wall (i.e. en masse) to the Holy Land, and not to rebel against the other nations. The nations were foresworn not to afflict the Jews too much.

Midrash Rabbah on Song of Songs 2:7 The reason for the oath against mass immigration is that if the Jews were to do this on their own, why would the messiah have to come to gather in the exiles of Israel?

Midrash Rabbah on Song of Songs 8:14 The redemption of the Jewish people is compared to the grain harvest, the grape harvest, the spice harvest, and to a woman giving birth. The common thread of all these metaphors is that they cannot be done too early. If grain is cut too early, it will not be good even as animal feed. If grapes are cut too early, they will not even be good to make vinegar. If spice is picked too early, it will not have a smell; it must be allowed to dry out on the tree. And if a woman gives birth prematurely, the baby will not live. So too, if the Jewish people hurries the end, they will not be successful, but at the proper time, may it be soon, they will be successful.

Tractate Shabbos 63a The difference between the present era and the days of messiah is that in the present era Jews are in exile under the nations and in the days of the messiah they will be independent.

This is all Christian interpretation. Not Judaism. Fake news

A Jew first alerted me to this. I also did a quick google search just today which confirms it:

http://www.truetorahjews.org/qanda/source1

You know nothing of Judaism. This is all propaganda. Read the ACTUAL Torah.

I gave references. You only gave your opinion.

No you gave mans interpretation. This is not written in Torah. You gave fake news.

Yeah that is not a legitimate source, but nice try.

This is incredible bullshit.

One: midrashim (the plural of midrash) aren't halacha (religious laws), they are fables, stories and allegories meant to illustrate ideas.

Two: Psalm (of which Song of songs is one) are religiously inspired poetry, not halacha (laws)

Basically it is like an archaeologist in 500 years looking back at American society today and try to infer legal principles from Dr Seuss's "Green Eggs and Ham".

You're seriously comparing the Talmud to Green Eggs and Ham?

No, I am comparing his attempt to divine religious prescriptions and prohibitions from Midrashim and Tehillim to attempting to determine what American Legal principles are from "Green eggs and Ham".

That is specifically retarded because the two have little to nothing in common.

The Talmud is not a compendium of Halacha (religious law) rather it is a collection of arguments made by famous Rabbis that were considered important enough to be written down- and the counter arguments to those arguments.

The Talmud is formated something like this "If X, Y and Z happens, how much does A owe to B? Well, Rav Gamliel says C & D but Rav Hillel says D & E and Rav Shamai says that Gamliel is more correct than Hillel but not completely so we hold that you have to pay 1/2 C + 1/2 E and all of D.

So that applies to civil and religious laws but the laws themselves are in the Tanach, the Talmud for those laws is merely how the judges have ruled in the past when legal questions came up.

Lastly, the Talmud contains a variety of philosophy and thoughts and interpretations of various religious materials like Tehillim and Midrashim from which the rabbis draw from, not as religious law or official policy but as teaching materials and ways to show you things from different perspectives.

These last are what the guy is quoting as support for his claim that Judaism and Zionism are incompatible - and yes - quoting these parts of the Talmud for that purpose has about as much relevance as quoting "Green Eggs and Ham".

Lastly, the Talmud contains a variety of philosophy and thoughts and interpretations of various religious materials like Tehillim and Midrashim from which the rabbis draw from, not as religious law or official policy but as teaching materials and ways to show you things from different perspectives.

Yes, very similar to Green Eggs and Ham.

I never compared the Talmud to green eggs and ham - I compared his behavior to trying to draw a legal precedent from green eggs and ham.

Don't be obtuse.

Maybe you're right.

And for that matter, Green Eggs and Ham doesn't have any reference to non-Jews being beasts... so there's that.

okay fucknut, move along...

Fucknut. Really. Not "dog?"

Well honestly it was a tossup - but "Cock-muppet" seemed a bit extreme for the situation...

Guess this sums up Abraham: The Theory of Everything In The Universe?

What Jew miss, aren't taught, or reject entirely, is what ISRAEL is.

Abraham was chosen by God, after testing his faith, to father Yahweh's church. In those days, immediately after Babel, races and tongues, as well as religion, had been divided amongst the fallen sons. Abraham's faith in Yahweh is what made his the chosen lineage for carrying God's theology, and stamping out the Nephilim.

The key point here is that it was Abraham's faith which got his bloodline selected. Joshua and then David did God's will (again faith), killing these abominations, and the kingdom prospered incredibly under Solomon at least until his own falling to the influence of another god. At which time Solomon lost his great wisdom. Faith is what makes a person part of God's church, not blood!

The prophet Elijah had respect for the faith of Gentiles in Yahweh. So did Jesus.

The other part of the reason Jesus is taught this way in Judaism, is that Jesus rebuked the elect at that time for their racial supremacy ideology, even though their own scriptures affirm His bringing Gentiles into the fold, it isn't taught that way. But it's there! But the idea of "being special/superior" to all the other races of men is a hard thing to let go, big ego in other words.

The time of the Nephilim had passed, and the "Gentiles" were/are given the chance to come back to God. The prodigal son parable is directly related to this. The farmer is God, the good son Israel, and the prodigal one the Gentiles.

Just like in the parable, the good son got jealous and angry. Rejected that message from God. And have been through a whole lot since then as a result, namely the same generation that crucified Jesus. Interestingly, the horrible racial supremacy ideology of the Nazis towards them has not softened their hearts towards the Gentiles, as they have been empowered by another god (the symbol on the flag of Israel has not a thing to do with David) to perpetuate that same horrible doctrine on the Palestinians. While the Holocaust was indeed a horrible thing, it is exactly the ideology of their own racial supremacy, and is not that of the loving Yahweh.

Many rabbinical hearts still hold that anger, passed down from generation to generation, to today.

Interesting stuff! I'm probably going to get blasted for a couple of these statements, and to those who get angry with them, I'd like to say that nothing I said is out of spite, malice, hate, or anger. Only love, and a desire to see our family united under God!

He means “the messiah” they’re waiting for the messiah

Israel is illegitimate.

source https://www.countercurrents.org/hart050410.htm

Zionism’s assertion that Israel was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN General Assembly partition resolution of 29 November 1947 is pure propaganda nonsense, as demonstrated by an honest examination of the record of what actually happened. Zionism is NOT Judaism.

Jerusalem is NOT a political entity reverberated around the world. The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology.

This struggle is rooted in two convictions: Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbinic-endorsements

In conclusion, to call Israel illegitimate is not anti-semite. In fact, it is the opposite. To call Zionism anti-semitism is to promote senseless propaganda. It is used to shut down conversation and criticism of Zionism (apparently the only ideology that cannot be criticized on Reddit or in the public education system). Israel is being done in the name of the everyday Jew (you know, the reasonable people who make up communities). Zionism is opposed by MANY Jews. Zionism is a tool of geopolitics. It does not represent Jews. It is, in fact, very anti-semite.

Fake news

I know for a fact that you didn't read what I've written. Pathetic!

Fake news

No. His account is a normal account. Yours looks more sketchy to me.

Your account is a year old but you’ve only ever posted anything in the last 5 days, and 99% is anti-Israel stuff. Ok

It's a real account. Truth hurts, huh?

Removed. Rule 10.

Excellent Post! I've marked you as a friend in the struggle for equality, fairness and justice everywhere, including The Middle East.

Conspiracy is run by Zionist pigs, that's why!

These dudes are out in full swing on the weekends

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Internet_Defense_Force

Are you referring to /r/conspiracy when you say 'Conspiracy'?

Interesting perspective. Thank you.

Then why bother to mention Him boiling in shit in your pedophilic Talmud?

I know, you a Black Jew ... If so, then read this:-

The Irony is REAL Jews are mostly still in Africa (The "Elite Fake White Jews" have so far refused to bring them into Israel).

While Israel were forced to fly in Ethiopian Jews, even just a small community, Israel tried whatever they can to suppress reproduction of Black Jews by forced contraceptive etc.

Apparently, many of the "Lost Tribes" can be found all over Africa and the US (some of the slaves). Interestingly, Black Jews do not follow the Talmud, the books that legitimize sins like pedophilia.

**Israelite Empires in Africa""

The Israelites who migrated to Africa. Some remained and some were sold into slavery and shipped to the America's. These are the true Jews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXG69mlzf84

This guy gets it.

Jews against Zionism is a growing movement. Israel is illegitimate.

There is no excuse for believing any religious bs in this day and age when its all been exposed as a mythological literature system made up thousands of years ago by very different people. Wake up!

On the other hand, if someone wants to be a decent person and likes that old stuff, fine, its not illegal. Just spare the rest of us the mental virus of ignorance it takes to keep a serious face when you bring up that shit as if its not insane.

You’re regurgitating propaganda you learned from mainstream media which is run by six corporations headed by the luciferian global elite. We stopped believing in a spiritual world because tv brainwashed us to, not because our ancestors were wrong that there is a spiritual world. What did you think all the peso rings linked to the elite who never get in trouble were all about? They worship lucifer with murder and raid just like he Bible warned us about. The mainstream media ridicules only Christianity. Ask yourself why. Do some research. Those opinions were given to you by the cult of personality that you worship.

You seem to be so angry.

Maybe "a mythological literature system" can help you with that.

The only ethical response to a rogue empire killing millions is to oppose it. Its amazing how people just tune out the millions murdered with no justification other than lies. That's like the Soviet Union pretending Stalin was not a genocidal maniac, ignoring what he did. This society is just as sick, or even sicker, since we are forgetting even recent history in Vietnam and Iraq, and plowing into Libya, Syria, Yemen, and soon Iran, maybe North Korea, perhaps even Venezula and Cuba. Americans don't care.

Like you, they would rather live in fantasy. Not mad. Just ready to say stop it.

That's like the Soviet Union pretending Stalin was not a genocidal maniac, ignoring what he did.

The Black Book of Communism claims he killed 20 million but this was a mistranslation from 2 million: all figures were accidentally multiplied by a factor of 10 by the English translator. And these figures were plucked from thin air in the first place, as are most "Communist death tolls."

People love to churn out death tolls but never seem able to substantiate them.

I am not going to debate body counts for Stalin, the Halocaust, Vietnam War, Korean War. We all no history is whatever the victors say it is, but fortunately we live in an age where some good research has been done. You should check it out, you sound really ignorant.

Especially the part about a mistranslated 20 million, thats a gem of stupid shit. The source would be nice, I am running low on humorous material.

"My original translation of these passages used the European symbol for "per thousand" (as the French edition did), but evidently the typesetter wasn't accustomed to the symbol and read it as "percent" rather than "per thousand." I should have noticed the erroneous switch when I looked over the galley proofs."

• Mark Kramer

The "murder count" for Stalin includes not just the executions he ordered, but the millions who starved to death during the transformation of society from serfdom to a modern industrial economy. Look up "number of people who died under Stalin"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_deaths_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

That's one writer's estimates and 9 million, if accurate, is still a lot less than 20 million, or 50 million, or 100 million. Also why aren't all the famines of the Russian Empire attributed to each Tsar considering how common famine was in the region? Did they all pay the clouds a regular fee not to rain? Shouldn't the Tsarist chronic inability to address famine be labeled an ongoing murder campaign?

The 1932 famine was caused by a number of factors such as drought, kulak sabotage (burning crops, slaughtering livestock, agricultural terrorism practically), 17 million people moving into towns, mechanization, Lysenkoism, etc. It was also the fastest industrialization in history and the former USSR hasn't had a famine since 1947 (itself caused by severe drought and war damage).

There were indeed inefficiencies and a measure of overlooking on the part of the local Ukrainian authorities which Stalin reprimanded. He had been trying to prevent famines for years yet they kept occuring when collectivization was ignored. Then after its adoption... no more famines.

In 1927, Stalin declared that the way forward was for people in each village to voluntarily unite their farms into one collective farm. This kolkhoz [Kolkhoz: A collective farm.] would be able to afford machinery, be more efficient, and be able to create a surplus to send to the towns.

After two years, when everyone had ignored his idea and there had been a famine, Stalin made collectivisation compulsory.

The peasants hated the idea, so they burned their crops and killed their animals rather than hand them over to the state. There was another famine in 1930.

Stalin relaxed the rules for a while, but in 1931 he again tried to enforce collectivisation. Again there was the same resistance and another, worse famine.

Stalin blamed the kulaks, and declared war on them. They were executed or sent to the gulag [Gulag: Russian labour-prison camps.].

And that's from the British government's high school curric. While I don't personally or philosophically agree with Stalin's executions, I can completely understand the reasoning behind it because I see it muttered every single day in America with calls for even more slave labor in prisons and demand for the death penalty that has been proven to kill innocent people but... everybody makes mistakes and these aren't declared state murders in the public zeitgeist.

To put it another way, how many people died as a direct result of British industrialization as a result of dangerous living and working conditions or basic lack of clean water? That was also influenced by people moving around too much due to appalling rent for capital to accumulate in certain areas. In The Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844 Friedrich Engels described how untreated sewage created awful odors and turned rivers green in industrial cities and the government even denied cholera could be spread by contaminated water. Are these deaths attributed directly to the British government? Starvation and malnutrition were standard. Not to mention the wholly intentional famines in Ireland and India, I could go on for a while, but relatively few are quick to declare murder.

Personally I just find these death toll attributions to be disingenuous. The USSR can be criticized for many things, such as the rape of Germany after WWII, but critique should be honest.

Glad to see you going beyond the claim of a typo. And you are right, the victors piled up blame on Stalin disproportionately, taking little blame themselves for hundreds of thousands of German POWs in their care who were virtually murdered. Probably millions of Native Americans murdered by whites under the first 15 US presidents. All under the rug.

America needs a Russia or the Muslims or the communists to be at war with, or they will turn on their own and start killing them. Oh, wait, it looks like that is started now too, with extreme numbers of police killings, extreme numbers of inner city violent crime in elite sponsored drug wars, extreme numbers of imprisoned Americans. But we give ourselves a pass on all of that.

Stalin executed a lot of people, almost like Bush and Obama and Trump do with the drone program, but probably even more, in the tens or hundreds of thousands. You don't want to stand up for the guy too much no matter how much the Soviet Union and its regions might have benefited from industrialization, education or the advancement of medicine under his rule. It was a ruthless time. Russia's very existence was in doubt. Drastic measures were taken, epic, but often inhumane.

There was a turning point in the killing of humans by other humans, when technology provided the means for thousands to be killed in a matter of hours or minutes. Some of the killing is one by one still, but most of it is done from a distance now, and the weapons now are putting all mammals bigger than a rat at risk of extinction.

We need to keep all these deaths in mind and not be minimizing them or exaggerating them.

The typo isn't just a claim I'm afraid. He also claimed there would be a reprint that has yet to materialize because really, why would they?

I like your attitude. It's rare here, dogma usually rules.

Like me? I don't live in fantasy. Nor do I kill, it's quite against the rules of my religion. People use religion to justify killing sure, but that's on them personally, not me.

Jews do not believe Jesus was holy at all. He’s not significant to them

I call the messiah Jesus but obviously Jews don’t recognize that he already came so I should have used the word messiah.

jews don't believe Jesus was the messiah because it does not match our idea of resurrection and the messiah.

It does though! Torah just isn't interpreted in that way, though it is certainly there in the Masoretic, Septuagint, and Dead Sea scroll text. If you're interested I can send you a link to some scholarly lectures on the subject.

sure, in all sorts of things written before and around that time, their were predictions of a messiah, like figure. Modern day jew think jesus was a guy who had some good ideas that made him a popular figure (ie a populist figure). The rest is myth, created by his followers, some of whom had read the predictions and morphed jesus into someone/something that fulfilled the predictions. I

believing those things is religion. Faith. It isnt modern day judiasm.

I like how you discern faith as being integral to following God. PM me if you're interested in my take on the 2k year old debacle of Judaism, Jesus, and Christianity.

I understand how Jesus is taught traditionally to Jews, but they're missing other ways things can more coherently be put together in Torah, and how the things Jesus taught in the New Testament are actually in there.

The racial superiority complex was necessary in that time, due to the rebellious gods in the Council, along with their giant offspring (1 Enoch, Genesis 6, Deuteronomy 9). It's no longer necessary however, even in Torah with actions taken by Elijah towards gentiles, and Jesus calls out those in his own home town for their lack of faith by citing these stories.

Anywho, while I've studied this stuff for a bit now, I'm no Dr. Heiser. Here's a few pertaining to this particular subject, though there are many more readily available! Enjoy.

Jesus in the old testament

The Divine Council, (The Godhead in Torah)

All "Israel" will be saved

Ironically, one of the reason is Jesus were chasing away MONEY LENDERS at the temple.

Jesus is anti usury, anti blood sucking, anti parasite, and therefore, anti semitic.

Please don't forget who murdered Jesus Christ.

And you expect the same crooks to recognize Christ as their messiah?

Watch this The Rothschild Empire - The True Leaders of The Planet Earth "We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent." ~ Rothschild

https://youtu.be/_FUz0vPZc7w

i am not watching antisemitic agitprop. Jesus was a jew. His followers were jews. All the early christians were jews. He wasnt against jews as a people. He, like many then and now, were concerned with inequity, inequality and the plight of the poor. Jewish values that were being subjugated by the rule of Rome.

Christ to the Pharisees 'Jews' - "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is you are not of God." Romans 9:6-8 - "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Revelation 3:9- "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

And so on, and so on.. For a 'Christian' the only path to the Father is through the Son. Except Jews! But to sum up what the Jew's Talmud says about Christ. He's the bastard child of a Roman soldier and a Jewish whore, who stole and praticed dark Kabbalah magic, and is now burning in hell in a pot of shit. And no Christ wasn't a 'Jew', they hated him then and now. They turned their backs on him. Ridiculed him at ever turn. Caused him to be crucified.
He is the FIRST CHRISTIAN.

You were quoting what Jesus said to the Pharisees. That does not mean "all Jews".

Get outta here, Nazi scum.

Doesn't Islam recognize Jesus as a prophet? Or are we just just dismissing muslims entirely cause theyre warmongers?

We were discussing Jews and Zionists, but I think Zionists are like the nazis because of how they treat Muslims. Yes they think Jesus was a prophet.

Comparing Zionists to nazis is absurd. It's fair to criticize the Israeli govt even though I think Hamas and hezbolah are worse than Israel. Yes they're supporting illegal settlements, but If Israel disarmed, there would be another genocide within days, meanwhile Israel and the Saudis are more than capable of killing all the shia in the region.

If Israelis were nazis, they wouldn't be allowing Muslims in Israel all the same rights as jews. If Israelis were nazis they would have never given back sanai or allow Hamas to run gaza, or allow the west bank anything.

Jews believe that Jesus is being boiled in shit in hell, in fact.

Actually there’s no hell in Judaism

I have edited my post.

That's funny.... because there's no Jewish hell

I have edited my post.

Cheers! :P

Thank you for the Talmud reference. This a point I’ve been trying to share with some friends.

What do you think of this? Specifically:

The gematria (numerical value) of teshuva is 708 (tav = 400; shin = 300; bet = 2; vav = 6). Therefore the missing vav in the word תשבה, as written in the Torah (which equals the number 6) was a prophecy that the Jews would be allowed to return to Israel minus 6 million of our people: “You shall return minus 6 million"; while the combined numerical value of the word teshuva = 708, indicates the year of our return

When we write the year, we ignore the millennia. In 1948 on the secular calendar, we witnessed the miracle of the return of the Jewish people to Israel, which occurred in the year 5708 of the Hebrew calendar, the year predicted by the incomplete word teshuva as written in the Torah. We did return, less the missing 6; that is the 6 million of our people who perished in the holocaust. Yet the fulfillment of the prophecy of our return in precisely the year predicted, as implied by the gematria of the word teshuva, gives us hope that the words of the prophets for Final Redemption will come true as well.

Christians, tt's to give up the idea Jews will embrace Christ. This is not going to happen.

Not in a million years, unless their wellbeing is threatened.

Move on, stop support Israel inhumanity. Urge Congress to cut tie with Israel, boot out all pro Israel politicians.

Israel is dirty douchebag all should avoid like plague.

That's the only way to MAGA!

Zionism has subverted Judaism in many ways, much like Gnosticism has Christianity. ISRAEL isn't "land." It is the spiritual church of Yahweh which has no ethnic or land boundaries. The kingdom of God is a global phenomenon. Their clinging onto a piece of dirt, and the hate/death/misery it brings to the area is sad, unnecessary, scripturally lacking, and the work of the prince of this material world. Many Jews do not understand that the kingdom of God is not a building. The body is the temple of God.

If only the peasant Jews in Europe during the middle ages could have explained that they weren't Zionists they could have saved themselves from the pograms...say what you want, but the people of Israel know that they're safer living there now than they have been at any other point in history

I think you mean they "want to take someone else's piece of dirt to call their own."

That's a bit more realistic, no?

Personally I'm bias as I've been to the country a couple times and loved it. I think the point I'm making is it could be any piece of land and the end would justify the means for them because they really have security which they haven't had in their entire history

While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

There are jewish people who have never stepped foot inside of israel. There are arabs that aren't muslim. There are muslims that aren't arabs.

Religion is an ideology, nothing to do with geography.

Mostly disagree. Religion is an ideology created to justify claims on geography. Heard of the Monroe Doctrine, or Manifest Destiny?

Nah. Politicians use religion to whip up their masses for nationalistic reasons. Whether for war, to colonize, etc.

The bible says literally nothing about America. manifest destiny, that was just using religion to get peoples beliefs to align with a newfound nationalism. Unfortunately it's STILL steeped in our people, to the point that they take any attempt to criticize anything about the country as a personal afront. But that's not because of religion directly.

steeped in our people, to the point that they take any attempt to criticize anything about the country as a personal afront.

Call it what you like. They think God is for America. They are treating this country as if it was church. Thats religion in my book. Even communism became a religion. You don't have to have a metaphysics with Jehovah for it to be a religion. But the US does have a metaphysics with Jehovah as its guiding principles, at least today a lot of people claim so. and "to the point that they take any attempt to criticize anything about the country as a personal afront". Not all nationalisms do it that way.

And not all religions do it either

But let’s not mix up nationalism with religion even if the adherents mix it up themselves. Just like we shouldn’t mix up religions with the extremists in their sect.

I don’t walk in fear of Christians just because some of its followers have committed heinous acts in the name of their god, for instance.

I don’t walk in fear of Christians just because some of its followers have committed heinous acts in the name of their god, for instance.

Millions of people do, after their cities were vaporized by Obama, Bush and Hillary, and rightfully so.

You should try walking down the street sometime while Christian jet bombers piloted by people who just left a military sponsored prayer session, obliterate your family and city.

God damn, the delusion around here sometimes.

That’s certainly a justified fear. Far different to be in a war zone and afraid than to be in America petrified that Muslims are going for force them all under shariah.

Those soldiers were in prayer sessions. Sure. Not because the military is a Christian order but because the top brass from generations ago realized that was the best way to their soldiers complacent and ready to do their bidding.

I still think it’s vital that we try to educate people to learn the difference between religion and using religion, though. There are atrocities around us, committed by evil people including ourselves.

If the perp is white and uses a gun then everyone says “don’t forget about the millions of law abiding gun owners”. If the perp is Arab or converted to Islam or whatever, all that tolerance goes out the window.

And to bring it back on topic, just because Israel is a Jewish state, that does not mean any criticism of its actions or policies are antisemetic. The divestiture campaigns for instance aren’t being done because of there are Jewish people in Israel, they’re done out of concern of the policies done by the state of Israel. Plenty of Jews inside and outside their borders criticize them because they’re able to see the distinction between a country and a religion.

does not mean any criticism of its actions or policies are antisemetic

agree. lots of jews never even visit Israel.

Plenty of Jews inside and outside their borders criticize them because they’re able to see the distinction between a country and a religion

No, because they know their own religion has gone nuts.

It’s not their religion that went nuts. It’s people in their country. I know many Jews who go to synagog and everything who are not happy with what they see that countries leaders doing. And never for a second do they link it to their religion. Except insofar as ww2 the event that enabled the birth of the state of israel, as a safe place for Jewish people to return to if they ever needed

There are a whole lot of exceptions in religion.

Except insofar as ww2 the event that enabled the birth of the state of israel

You don't even know your history, Isreael was being populated by Europeans starting with the British Mandate of Palestine (1920–1948) Between 1929 and 1938, 250,000 Jews arrived in Palestine (Fifth Aliyah). 174,000 arrived between 1933 and 1936.

Here is a map of what happened to the Palestinian controlled land:http://i.imgur.com/McjEnye.png

Kind of like what America did to the natives, huh?

By the way, have you heard of Chabad? Chabad is referred to as an "Orthodox" Jewish movement because it adheres to Jewish practice and observance within the guidelines of Talmudic law and its codifiers.

https://www.jns.org/chabads-massive-growth-rooted-in-several-key-ingredients-yet-defies-logic/

But I find almost all Jews, even those in America who have never been to Israel, call Israel home

Uhhh are you joking? There’s been a Jewish presence in Israel for thousands of years.

More jews lived outside of the Jerusalem area than in it, even before the destruction of the temple in 70 CE, in places like the south of England, Alexandria Egypt, Turkey, and Babylon.

At the time modern European jews started settling in the Palestinian territories, Jews in that area made up a small part of the population, as did Christians. But they were genetically from different origins than the European jews who came to occupy, and the European jews who came to occupy were not kind to any of the people they found there, Jewish or otherwise.

Lol you’re talking 70 CE, try going back another 1000 years. Jews had a fucking kingdom in Israel at one point, you can still see the castles in the old city. To say Jews have no real history in the region is a fucking joke.

Many Jews themselves have been honest about the farce you propose: read https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

Even well before 70 CE there is tons of evidence of Jews being there for hundreds of years. Just because a Jew agrees with another take doesn’t somehow make it valid or correct. If a Jew denies the holocaust that doesn’t lend more credence to holocaust denialism.

Read the book. The Bible history of Israel is a lie, a proven lie. No one in their right mind, jew, christian, whatever, believes in Bible history according to the Bible unless they are brainwashed. Its over. Done.

By the way, have you heard of Chabad? Chabad is referred to as an "Orthodox" Jewish movement because it adheres to Jewish practice and observance within the guidelines of Talmudic law and its codifiers.

https://www.jns.org/chabads-massive-growth-rooted-in-several-key-ingredients-yet-defies-logic/

I don't recognize land deeds more than a few hundred years old. England stole the area, sold it to Zionist, and here we are. Israel is an invading occupancy.

Israel was literally made as a refuge for jews.

Israel is a secular country dude...

In name only. There is a reason why the Orthodox get to live for free on tax money and that the settlers are allowed to do whatever they like.

Israel is a religion as much as it is a country.

Oh fuck off with that. Israel is a country, run by a government who make decisions. It is not above judgement, nor does judging it's actions negatively constitute racism. It's this backwards thinking that has allowed Israel to act beyond reproach. I can't believe people in the public eye are forced to apologise for criticising Israel as if they've revealed their detestable racist streak. Fuck that. The Jewish church may be tied to the state, but the religion and the state are entirely separate.

Why aren't you and other lying shills downvoting me more?

Why don't you look up the definition of a religious state?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&ei=5RVuWo3NEcXWzgKe26XQDA&q=definition+of+a+religious+state+israel&oq=definition+of+a+religious+state+israel&gs_l=psy-ab.12..33i22i29i30k1l2.15012.17286.0.20107.7.7.0.0.0.0.179.948.2j5.7.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.7.946...0i22i30k1.0.mpMuBrPLw6M

One thing I like about modern Jews is that its fine for them to be atheists and still fully accepted as Jews, that's real progress. The jewish community/identity is more than a belief system, its also a community with deep cultural ties that are mixed with religious symbolism.

When I was a kid, I knew a few Catholics like that. They no longer believed, but they were part of the cultural community, so they stuck around.

Why are you talking about Jews? I couldn't care less about Jews. Jews are just people trying to get on with living, same as everyone else.

I'm talking about Israel. I don't care for your definitions - the actions of Israel's government, intelligence agencies and military have nothing to do with any religion; they are not dictated by the wishes of the Jewish people of Israel or their religious communities. They are done for the sake of the state itself.

People don't criticise Israel for its people finding comfort in worship. They do it because the Israeli government engage in some nasty shit that affects a lot of people and then play the anti-Semite card when anyone dares speak out against them.

There are evolutionary penalties for delusion, and the old religions are long past their expiration dates, chock full of total BS, so yes, I do object to the idiots who continue to take comfort from a bunch of stupid stories, especially since they band together have the political clout to wreak havok in the world, as Israel is now an example, but so is Saudi, so is America.

Conspiracy is a great place to expose the lies that people conspire to inflict on us. Religion does not deserve any exception for its nefarious acts, individually or collectively. This is not the place to apologize or ignore what is really going on with religion. Its a sickness, and their gods are projections of a very conditional love that amounts to the justification of genocide. Stop the make believe on this subreddit. There are other subreddits for all that pretending elsewhere.

By the way, have you heard of Chabad? Chabad is referred to as an "Orthodox" Jewish movement because it adheres to Jewish practice and observance within the guidelines of Talmudic law and its codifiers.

https://www.jns.org/chabads-massive-growth-rooted-in-several-key-ingredients-yet-defies-logic/

Israel is a country, Judaism is a religion. But they're thoroughly intertwined.

Ohhhh but it’s not ok to hate on a predominantly Muslim country. It’s ok to call Donald Trump a nazi but not the ones who hate on the Jews and actually went through the experience that spawned the word nazi. Weeeeeeiiird. I’d rather have a world ran by Jews than a world of Muslims. Hands down. I’d rather be enslaved by debt and live comfortably than live in a violent woman hating world. Not even a question.

You forgot the/s

Doesn’t need one

You don’t want to live in a “violent woman hating world,” yet you voted for and still support Trump? The irony

Move to Africa

I’d love to understand the connection between these two comments

Move to Africa and you'll understand

Ok I’m in Africa... now what?

Stay there and shut the fuck up.

Yikes

Donald? Is that you on an alt account?

Another brainwashed fool

Anyone who can still support Trump after the disaster of 2017 is clearly brainwashed or just brain-dead.

Not trying to be flippant, but a person could pretty easily hold that 2017 was actually not a bad year in terms of government policies enacted.

Somehow with majority in Congress and a R as POTUS they were still unable to pass many policies. People are raving about the state of our economy, but fail to realize that we can thank Obama for that. What policies have been enacted that have improved anyone’s lives? (Besides of course the billionaires who have Trump in their back pocket?)

How about the repeal of Obamacare? That improved a lot of people's lives.

Millions cheered when they lost healthcare; they cried tears of joy as Trump made it impossible to get their children treated properly and gave a death wish to millions of Americans. MAGA🇺🇸

Haha. Lies and more lies.

Do you describe your field of work as “public relations”?

That literally didn’t happen... are you.. are you stupid?

I certainly enjoy my extra 1500 a year in fewer taxes.

What made it disastrous? There has been no major change to basically anything other than the taxes

Look at the long-term effects of the tax plan and might understand.

What's the long term?

Haha. Thank obama for it? Are you serious? I won’t even bother wasting time typing with you now because you are ignorant or brainwashed. Or both

“I don’t have anything else to say so I’m just going to say you’re wrong and give up”

Nope. First you didn’t prove anything. So I don’t have to disprove it because you said it. But just for fun go look at the stock market from the day trump won until today and compare that to the previous eight years. That’s all you need to see. The fact you think that obama could suck for the economy for eight years then the moment he isn’t president the economy starts skyrocketing has anything to do with obama is mind blowing. You just have trump derangemebt syndrome and have been brainwashed by the msm.

Could you fit any more buzzwords in there? Damn Obama was fighting against one of the worst recessions in US history during his entire presidency, and succeeded remarkably. We’re still on that projection path

The stock market has steadily grown for the past eight years. Last year, the economic plan was still Obama's, which ended the end of October 2017. We've been on Trump's plan as of September 2017.

Damn it took Obama 9 whole years to improve the economy. And it happened the moment after he left and when his successor was appointed and consistently continues during his successor’s rule. And it’s all because of Obama. What kind of magic is this?

What was a disaster? That every American got a raise compliments of Donald Trump? That America is stealing Canadian jobs and factories? He’s an ugly asshole. Those usually make the best leaders. The fact that China called Donald strong don and Justin Trudeau little potato?

I got news for you. Pussy keeps men working.

"Violent woman hater" does not accurately represent Trump or his policies.

The women he’s assaulted would beg to differ

You mean the women who claim to have been assaulted by him. I think the women he's elected to WH positions would also beg to differ. Which by the way there are more of than any previous president's administration.

The “he’s not racist, he has a black friend” argument

Are you suggesting that because he challenges some women on some issues he is against all women? Im not sure what you're suggesting since he's never been convicted of assaulting a woman.

Since you brought it up: black unemployment is currently at a new low. Lower than during the Obama years. Is that the result of the actions of a racist man?

This subreddit is always full of conspiracies about Hollywood elites as sexual predators and everyone believes the victims, but when it’s pointed out that there are dozens of women who say they have been assaulted by the president, suddenly no one believes the victims anymore. Interesting.

I've never though that we should believe every woman's claim of harassment. Believing all women tell the truth is just as much of a fallacy as believe that all women are lairs.

But what’s the difference? Why believe the victims of men like Nassar and Weinstein and not Trump?

Not one of these accusations has been tested by a court of law. Entire careers are being destroyed-- financial and social ruin-- on statements made not under oath to reporters and websites. Sometimes from a single effing tweet.

It will be interesting when the backlash-- the countersuits for libel/slander-- starts coming down.

Name one.

Good job because that's what you've got suckkaaaaaaaa

Your mom and I were thoroughly entwined last night... doesn't make us one person.

Kidding! Jeez! /S

Bazinga!

Oof

Removed. Rule 5

70% of Israelis are Jewish.

Only because of the illegal sleight of hand which the Zionists use to deny citizenship to anyone who is not Jewish in the land they control under military law for more than 50 years.

hmm. do Palestinians have citizenship in Jordan, afterall, the west bank belonged to Jordan. Do Palestinians who live in syria and lebanon have citizenship there. Hmm.

They do not live under military occupation and constant attacks bye the militaries of those Nations as the Palestinians living under the Zionist Israeli occupation do. Now, would you like to make a comment how about the persecution and depression under which the Palestinians in Zionist Israeli occupied areas have been living for over half-a-century?

Says the man dude who sits comfortably at his keyboard comfortably criticizing “occupation” assumably on land stolen from Native Americans. Bro, a hundred years difference doesn’t make it different. Call it what it is: anti-Semitism. Do we expect the Turks to secede Anatolia back to the Byzantium? Or for a more recent example, of Cyprus? Nah man. Because “Jews.” 🙄

fuck off with that stupid bullshit.

Great argument. Hope your mom keeps your chicken tenders nice and warm. Maybe your dad will come back too.

straight to the personal attacks, good on you for disproving the myth of superior jewish intellect.

Haha what a fucking pathetic statement. Way to twist it. We are constantly being driven home how uniquely 'evil' the white man is, wether it be through practices of colonialism right up until good ol 'white privelage'. So wtf are u on about free passes? Why is it ok to review and judge the actions of a race of people up to hundreds and hundreds of years ago, yet reviewing and judging those same actions being perpetrated by people from a cult in the fucking present time is somehow now ok? Please explain in clear cut terms without any hogwash

Yeah! Anyone born in North America is automatically guilty of the slaughter of natives! You can't say shit, you're a native babykiller and an anti-semite!

You do know that the Israeli government has offered citizenship to thousands of Palestinians living in Jerusalem and other annexed territories (Golan).? If you make a claim like the one above, I would hope you know of that fact.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-east-jerusalem-palestinians-seek-israeli-citizenship/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel?oldformat=true

So what is the problem, then, with offering equality under the law to all Palestinians living under Israeli control? Why would Israel exclude the other 99% of Palestinians?

That's a complex problem that has a number of historical and cultural reasons for it. First that I can think of is that the West Bank and Gaza aren't really Israel proper in a legal sense. The territories of the two were never officially annexed by the government. The Golan and East Jerusalem were.

To offer citizenship to the Palestinians in the occupied territories (yes they are occupied, even Israelis say "occupied") would be problematic for two reasons. One is that that would be a violation of what the PA (Palestinian Authority) exists for. Also with that, how can Israel offer citizenship to people are under a mostly military occupation. That is pretty immoral as those people would not enjoy the same freedoms as Israeli citizens living in the mainland.

The second reason (I'm sure there are more) is that there is a "Demographic problem" in Israel when it comes to giving non - jews voting power. Here is the wikipedia on it:

In the 1950s, Shoham Melamad found that the high fertility rate of Arabs was viewed as a demographic threat to the Jewish nation.[15] Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, however, stated that Arabs in Israel should be treated equally to any other Israeli citizens and be allowed to have children just like any other citizen.[16] A 1967 Maariv editorial suggested that Jews should be encouraged to have large families, while Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and in Israel should be encouraged to adopt birth control measures. Schnitzer also advocated for the adoption of an open policy encouraging Arabs to emigrate from Israel.[17]

In 2003, Benjamin Netanyahu opined that if the percentage of Arab citizens of Israel rises above its current level of about 20 percent, Israel would not be able to retain a Jewish demographic majority, the basis of Israel's self-definition as a "Jewish democratic state". Netanyahu's comments were criticized as racist by Arab Knesset members and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.[18][19] In May 2009, Michael Oren wrote an article in Commentary in which he discussed the "Arab Demographic Threat" as one of "Seven Existential Threats" facing Israel.[20] In 2005, Shimon Peres told US officials that Israel had "lost" land in the Negev "to the Bedouin" and would need to take steps to "relieve" the "demographic threat". In 2010, Netanyahu warned in a government meeting that a Negev "without a Jewish majority" would pose "a palpable threat".[21] In February 2014, then Israeli finance minister Yair Lapid said failure to establish a Palestinian state would leave Israel facing a demographic threat that could undermine its Jewish and democratic nature.[22]

To summarize, giving so many non - jews citizenship would be adverse to the goals of the Jewish state. It wouldn't be Jewish anymore.

That is why the two - state solution is the big one for the left, that it leaves the two populations alone to figure things out in their own respective governments.

I'm a liberal Jew who spent some time studying in Israel. Ask away if you have any more questions or wanna debate, I love having discussions like this.

Only 70%, what is the Fake Jews %?

20% or so of Israeli citizens are Muslim

Around 75% of US Americans are Christian, but the US is not a Christian nation and criticizing the US is not seen as criticizing Christianity.

Holy cow, that's a hell of a mic drop.

There is no other religious group with more internal conflict than the Jewish faith. I hear this a lot. I've been forced to grow out of /pol/ish jokes and recognise there are orthodox Jews, within Israel, yinkles and all, holding signs that say "Fuck Zion."

See, Netanyahu is Blofeld. And part of his master plan is turning any criticism of that plan into bigotry. "You don't like how I currently run Israel? Fuck you, you antisemite bigot."

Old Chuckie "Glasses" Schumer, Amy Schumer's uncle, sponsored a bill to make boycotting Israel a FELONY. A felony? You Heimish bookish nebbish? Really? Let's break the first amendment for Zion? And there's no agenda there?

I just want them to stop being so craven and operate out in the open. The front page yesterday was a bit of a Shoahshow. It's like, ugh. I get it. L'Chaim. Never forget. How could we ever possibly fucking forget? A Heimishy finger will always be wagging "guuuuuiiilty! Shaaaaame!! Never ever ever ever forget!!"

FINE! Fine. I won't fucking forget. I'll go buy two copies of Anne Frank. I'll sit through endless showings of Army of Shadows and Schindler's List and The Sorrow and the Pity like Woody Allen in "Annie Hall." Please. Just leave me alone.

Mentioning Amy Schumer is Chuck Schumers niece is fucking pathetic. "THE JEWS ARE TOO VOCAL ABOUT REPEATED HISTORICAL MONSTROSITIES AND DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO FORGET THEM!" It's almost as if it's common knowledge that humans do the same terrible shit over and over unless they are reminded. Hmm.

Out of everything he listed, THAT’S what you focus on? Come the fuck on dude.

Him mentioning it taints the rest of his points.

It really fucking doesn't, you're just cherry picking

It actually does for me, when somebody starts his point with "Old Chuckie "Glasses" Schumer, Amy Schumer's uncle" he is trying to make him look bad with things he has no control over. Two things which also have nothing to do with the topic we're discussing. It makes me take the person less serious.

The issue is in these days the world tends to believe that the state and church hold separate goals. Combining the two wildly different goals causes chaos, chaos causes issues and strife/war. That's the whole point here, it's not about "the jews" it's a statement about separating church and state.

I think it's fair that we mention all of his downsides, including Amy

Oy vey! The Holocaust meme has run its course. For older people the movies have lost their effect. For young people it’s like it was the best thing to ever happen to comedy.

Tell me, why we don’t have how horrible the

•Mongol conquests •Holodomor •Armenian genocide •Bosnian genocide •Stalinist Terror •Taiping and Boxer rebellions •Genocide through ongoing Sinicization of Tibet, E. Turkistan, Manchuria, and Inner Mongolia (shoah’d from media, perhaps because this one resembled a currently ongoing genocide too much?) •Rape of Nanking •Mao Zedong •Gulags of Russia (especially this one) •Other Bolshevik oppression in the 20th Century throughout the planet (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE)

Et. Al. shoved down our fucking throats every day?

Don’t these events have the hallmark characteristics of the Holocaust too? Systematic murder and oppression, precisely targeted killing, and massive, massive death tolls. In fact most of them are way worse than the Holocaust in every perceivable way. And why is something bad suddenly worse when it’s done to another group? Would the Holocaust be viewed the same way if Germans simply did it to German undesirables?

Hell Jews aren’t even saints either, not in any stretch of the imagination. Read about who ran slave ships to America, who was behind Bolshevism, and who funded the European wars. There’s no group in the whole world that doesn’t have blood on their hands, and in the long run it’s a pretty equal amount. From the perspective of a historically literate minority living in America, the amount of blatant bias I see everywhere is sickening.

My god well said Air

Don't forget your Old Testament history in which the hebrews attacked cities with the instruction to kill all the males and enslave the females.

This comment makes me uncomfortable

Which is funny cuz I had a Jewish roommate, Southern Californian Jew. I cannot tell at first he seemed like cool dude, but how much shit he would walk about arabics, Russians, and Polish people it was insane calling Polish girls prostitutes, Russians as animals and Arabic as swindlers that get loud to intimidate.

Lol, a Jew calling other people swindlers. The irony.

FINE! Fine. I won't fucking forget. I'll go buy two copies of Anne Frank. I'll sit through endless showings of Army of Shadows and Schindler's List and The Sorrow and the Pity like Woody Allen in "Annie Hall." Please. Just leave me alone.

This is gold.

how the fuck does this have 98 upvotes. "a heimishy finger will always be wagging"

I believe it's called unabashed racism, it's not too hard to find on this sub

I don't spend much time here but that makes sense.

This is literally anuddah shoah.

Theyre both Greek

So what, Hitler was a sweet baby, he was a dog lover, those things are all intertwined too

We should still be able to differentiate between the two with the power of the mind.

Right of Return. Technically speaking, every Jew is a citizen of Israel by birthright.

That doesn't mean they agree with the actions of Israel. Criticism of Israel should not be misconstrued as antisemetism even if all jewish people are potential Israeli citizens.

Correct

unless you are an African Jew, in which case they sterilize you and try to chase you away...

birthright.

Are they BORN in Palatine?

How do you define BIRTHright? It means you must be born there, right?

They are connected. But ya know, Judaism has been a religion for thousands of years, and Israel a country for less than a hundred.

How many non-Jews live in Israel?

Stop being naive.

only 75% :)

Are you asking for the actual demographic data?

Some 74.6% percent are Jews of all backgrounds (about 6,556,000 individuals), 20.9% are Arab of any religion other than Jewish (about 1,837,000 individuals), while the remaining 4.5% (about 400,000 individuals) are defined as "others" including persons of Jewish ancestry deemed non-Jewish by religious law and persons of non-Jewish ancestry who are family members of Jewish immigrants (neither of which are registered at the Ministry of Interior as Jews), Christian non-Arabs, Muslim non-Arabs, and all other residents who have neither an ethnic nor religious classification.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 142687}

So like....if someone says a predominantly black country is a shit hole it doesn't mean they are racist. Right?

that is correct

I would agree with that, yes.

Saying the country is a shithole is separate from the people within it. Maybe the entire government is corrupt - how is that a reflection of each individual person or the race of those people? Maybe it’s a shithole because of political reasons. Maybe it’s a shithole because a certain foundation is keeping most of the money that was supposed to be given to the country.

A country isn’t always the sum of its parts. You can travel the world now and people will have some opinion of Donald Trump - I’ve heard a lot of negative opinions. Does that mean the people within the country are reflective of that person? I am from Canada - I was in Paris and this older couple spoke highly of Trudeau. Trudeau is a fucking virtue signalling pussy. I personally feel that you should just let everyone be, so long as they’re not hurting anyone. But I’m not reflective of fucking Justin Trudeau. I actually think my opinions are better and more realistic. More pure even. His are so superficial. I’m not not from a shithole because some guy from France said he likes Justin Trudeau.

Don’t be a pussy. Be strong and understand what “shithole” means.

Correct.

No but you could say it's unstatesmanlike.

You guys realise we don't think he's racist because he called the countries shitholes, right? We think he's racist because he stated he doesn't want people coming from these "shitholes".

How is that a racist statement?

It’s not, people just throw the word racist around a lot

Devoid of all meaning

Looks like you've trigger a handful of SJWs.

When everyone is a Nazi, everyone is a Nazi

It implies they're all terrible people / people with nothing to offer and are just coming to leech off the system. There are probably a lot of skilled workers in those countries that can only benefit the countries they immigrate to. Also, he didn't specify that he was simply after the skilled, he only seemed to want people from pre-dominantly white countries to emigrate (like Norway).

Maybe a racist gets that implication. Its a numbers game. Sure there is a handful of anectdotal Haitians that would benefit our country. Where Trump is correct is that the risk reward difference of Haitian immigrants compared to Norwegian immigrants is so fucking vast that only a fool would take the former over the latter. Not racist. Realist. Pragmatic. American.

Ah yes the old “if you think that’s racist then you’re racist” logic.

Well everybody is a racist so....

Norwegians wouldnt come to this shithole.

Only about 4.5 million.

Jesus Christ, thank you. This is the problem with the media constantly focusing on the language Trump uses instead of the entire context of his speech. Parsing individual words is useless, what he really says is entirely lost in the discussion. Now instead of people arguing about why it's bad to say we don't want people from shithole countries, we're instead having an entirely fruitless discussion on whether or not "shithole" is a bad word.

We're fucked.

This is as dumb as the other. People from shit hole countries genealogy ring nothing to the table. They're under/uneducated. They're poor and generally have little to not support structure once they get here. It's the difference between a homeless person moving into your neighborhood and a person moving in and buying a house.

Explain to me what is racist about not wanting homeless people in your neighborhood and I'll accept your positon s anything but being a mind controlled and indoctrinated sheep.

They're coming from a place where they were never allowed the incredible opportunity to improve their life like we have in America. They're born with nothing and to avoid dying with nothing they come here, not because they want handouts, because they want a chance. They're not here to steal from you or live off your tax dollars, they're here to work like everyone else to improve their life.

People from "shithole" countries have plenty of value to bring to the table. Just as much as any person, that's what makes America great. Immigration from any country brings other culture and people who are more patriotic than most lifetime citizens.

The reason many people think that it's racist to not want these people in our country is because people from these countries are predominantly black. I'm inclined to say that it's wrong to assume other's intentions. Everyone has different reasons for wanting/ not wanting immigrants from certain countries.

Friend, after reading what you've written here it seems like your main reasoning for not wanting immigrants is their seeming lack of wealth. When you place people's value on their wallets and characterize "what they bring to the table" by their education or their wealth, you're not giving them enough credit. Immigrants bring culture, a love of country, a different perspective than that of westerners, and incredible work ethics. Many of these attributes cannot be found in American citizens. America was built on competition, to deny people the right to compete based off where they come from(regardless of skin color) is ungracious, and it disgraces the fundamental ideals of the United States of America.

If your goal is to stop new perspectives from coming to america, to homogenize the country because you think people from poorer nation's somehow don't deserve the unalienable rights guaranteed by our constitution, then you're not racist, but you are ignorant and you are not American. A little compassion can go a long way.

Statistically foreigners start new business in America 3:1 over white people.

That's a cool stat. Do you have a source?

Sounds like a problem and not something to brag about.

I appreciate the long thought out response, because honestly this is a topic I've thought a lot about since I've seen the News Hour on PBS mention several times or heavily imply that this was a racist statement. I understood how they got there, but I disagreed the first time I heard it and I disagree now that it's racist. I think the entire position is based in feelings and not reality.

People from "shithole" countries have plenty of value to bring to the table. Just as much as any person, that's what makes America great.

"The HDI was created to emphasize that people and their capabilities should be the ultimate criteria for assessing the development of a country, not economic growth alone. The HDI can also be used to question national policy choices, asking how two countries with the same level of GNI per capita can end up with different human development outcomes. These contrasts can stimulate debate about government policy priorities. The Human Development Index (HDI) is a summary measure of average achievement in key dimensions of human development: a long and healthy life, being knowledgeable and have a decent standard of living. The HDI is the geometric mean of normalized indices for each of the three dimensions.

The health dimension is assessed by life expectancy at birth, the education dimension is measured by mean of years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more and expected years of schooling for children of school entering age. The standard of living dimension is measured by gross national income per capita. The HDI uses the logarithm of income, to reflect the diminishing importance of income with increasing GNI. The scores for the three HDI dimension indices are then aggregated into a composite index using geometric mean. Refer to Technical notes for more details.

The HDI simplifies and captures only part of what human development entails. It does not reflect on inequalities, poverty, human security, empowerment, etc. The HDRO offers the other composite indices as broader proxy on some of the key issues of human development, inequality, gender disparity and poverty.

A fuller picture of a country's level of human development requires analysis of other indicators and information presented in the statistical annex of the report."

In this index Haiti (one of the countries specifically called out as a shithole) ranks 163rd. Norway (also specifically mentioned as a counter point to the "shithole" countries ranks 1st.

Immigration from any country brings other culture and people who are more patriotic than most lifetime citizens.

Citation needed.

First of there is no proof he said those exact words, and trump did also deny it. But let’s say he did say, it’s nothing to do with skin color, it’s to do with their intelligence. Why should we import low IQ people into our country, we only should let high IQ people in.

out you go

Not an argument

Neither is claiming that people from any given country have lower or higher IQs or asserting that "IQ" is a valid way to assess a persons quality/work ethic/values/ability to contribute positively to society

You my friend, need to look up what “argument” means. Because I’m not going to argue with someone who doesn’t know what that is.

Yet here we are. My IQ is 300.

Not unless he follows up with a “I prefer whites to blacks”

Also, the Jewish religion literally promises the reclaiming of the Jewish peoples state in Israel.

And also Jewish dominion over all the lesser peoples and nations of the earth.

If Jews control everything, why are Muslim countries attacking Israel with American funding?

R u serious? Last time i cheked israel atacking muslim countries with american funding. Israel got is the most absurd funded country by the usa this year alone more hen 38 bil

What countries are they attacking?

Palestine yemen north korea iran iraq egypt alla where oil is etc

LOL.

Cheked his history of comments 100% shill jdif

Commenting with a clear agenda this guy . I swear they breath devils air in to them how can u be so evil and soulles

They are not.

Muslims believe that too, but they also think they have to kill every Jew at the End Times.

So does the Christian religion. You know, right before the end times and ushered in and the world gets destroyed in a massive war

The Jewish religion says Jewish people can’t have their own state until messiah returns.

not really

Yes really.

The fuckin Arabs goin hard today

I would say any rational person can distinguish between an ally and a parasite.

Israel is America's biggest parasite.

No, I would say only brainwashed leftists, Muslims and fascists seem to come together on this topic united in their hatred for Jews.

Anyone with a brain wouldn't support Muslims who will simply turn the land into another terrorist shithole exporting problems to their neighbors.

If you actually know the history of this situation, it's pretty hard to not be on Israel's side.

They're the only ones that have ever been at the table for the two state solution. It's primarily the radical Muslims keeping the war going.

I know it well, care to clarify?

As soon as Israel has been returned to its 1938 borders there can be peace in the middle east. But until Israel gives back all of the land they stole from the Palestinians then of course the Palestinians are going to be angry. Who wouldn't be angry if a bunch of foreigners moved in, stole your land, and moved you into concentration camps?

The day Israel “returns” the land that is rightfully theirs.. the day Israel and the Jews cease to exist. But I guess reading the comments in this post and in this sub that is exactly the prevailing thinking going on today. The holocaust was only 75 years ago and yet it seems the same hatred that led to the holocaust is being promoted and adopted today.

Jews are welcome to exist. Israel needs to cease.

Muslims are welcome to exist. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt, needs to cease.

Last i checkes none of those countries were stolen from their rightful owners by the British and given to a foreign cultural group.

Iraq 1920-1932 British
British Egypt 1882-1956 Oman 1892-1971 British Emirate of Transjordan 1921-1946 British

Check harder

Yes, and all of those nations were returnes to the arabs, not given to foreign Jews.

Jews have been there for 5778 years.. long before the Arab or Islam existed.

Israel ceased to exist 3000 years ago.

🤔.. last I checked.. its capital is Jerusalem. And it exists. And you have been triggered

Tel Aviv. Modern Israel is not tge same nation as biblical Israel.

Well I guess I’ll take your word for it then

Tel Aviv.

I think you are confusing capital with the city with the most embassys.

No. America declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Most of the rest of the UN smacked that down pretty hard. Just because a giant carrot says something doesn't make it true.

Which is sort of a weird exception, as I understand it countries define their own capitals, its part of their legislation or/and consitution.

Well, legitimate countries maybe. Israel is not that.

America is worth 100 UN countries so their word matters more

America is a shithole.

Those countries were all stolen from Christians and then given back to the invader Muslims by the British.

No, they were all stolen from arabs (be they Christian arabs or Muslim arabs) then returned.

Then you know that Israel seized that land in a defensive war?

You know they gave back the Sinai peninsula and the Gaza Strip in good faith, and the Muslims used the new strategic location to launch rockets into their city?

You know that the West bank is far more important of a strategic location since it would allow easy rocket strikes into their biggest cities, most notably Jerusalem?

You know the West Bank is actually an invented term for an area that is historically Judea.

You know that many Muslims and Arabs live in Israel with special permissions for praying on the temple mount, but no jews are allowed to live in Arab countries? Literally not a single one.

You know that Israel is literally the only democratic state in the Middle East, where homosexuals can live openly and women have equal rights?

You know that Hamas openly calls for nothing but the utter destruction of all Jews and the Jewish state?

You know that Israel was conquered from the Ottomans by the British? It was given to the Jews, which is their right. If you disagree, you should probably give your house back to the native Americans.

No, the British gave Palestinian land to the Jews, and thus Israel was born. All of Israel is an illegally occupied Palestine. Anything the Palestinians do to repel the foreign invaders is perfectly justified.

Like I said, you'd better give your house back to the native Americans then. Live in England? No problem. That actually belongs to the Celts, or the Romans, take your pick you filthy Norman/Saxon invader!

The difference is that Israel is still a new enough nation that things can be remedied. Every country on earth has been invaded and conquered at some time. Israel is still young enough that we can do the right thing and give it back to its rightful owners.

Your argument is basically that time diminishes the right to the land? It would have to be since the Jews are, of course, the original owners. The romans took it from the Jews, then the Arabs, the Crusaders, etc.

You really have a silly argument. Land is taken in war time. Welcome to Earth. There is no special circumstances in Israel that can't also be extended out to every other square inch of land on the planet.

Israel is the only country I know of off the top of my head that has even given land back that was seized in a defensive war (the Gaza strip and the Sinai peninsula). Why isn't that good enough for you? Why do you HAVE to have Judea too? Do you even know? Or were you just told the Jews were the bad guys?

Excellent argument

My argument is that Israel is a new creation, a priduct of western imperialism, and a threat to world peace, and that it's not too late to right the wrongs done to the Palestinian people. After a couple hundred years theres nothing that can be realistically done. After 60 years, when many of the affected people are still alive (and most of their children, those who haven't been genocided by Israel anyway) there is still time to right the wrongs.

If the Jews want their own country there is lots of uninhabited land on this planet, so give the Palestinians their land back and let the Israels move someplace where they're not displacing the rightful owners

And, again, your argument is silly and could be applied to New Zealand, Australia, all of North and South America, most of Africa, and nearly all of Europe and Asia - ie. the whole planet.

You're giving no reason for why the Palestinians have this special claim, other than the amount of time that has passed. Why don't you want to give Israel to the Romans, or the Crusaders, or the Ottomans?

You're also ignoring (or probably dont know) the fact that the Jews were totally fine with the 1967 borders. It was the surrounding Arab countries that invaded Israel and started this whole mess.

Again, the Jews gave back Sinai and Gaza, only to get inundated by rockets. Still to this day. It's only their extremely sophisticated missile defense system that stops them.

You clearly don't know the history you claimed you did. You don't understand the situation, and you don't have even a semblance of a logical argument.

All of those nations are considerably older, long past the time when any living people (or even their grandchildren) are still alive.

The only acceptable borders for Israel are those from 1938. The 1967 borders are an illegally occupied Palestine. And Israel was obviously not ok with it's 1967 borders because they've been aggressively expanding ever since (and still are).

Anyway, I see that you've resorted to insults and ad hominems, we're done here.

Take a seat, or explain why Falestine has a claim to the land which is what your rambling argument leans on

Because it is Palestine.

What if I counter with "but it is Israel"?

Then you've made a false statement.

lol I tried

There was no country as Palestine. The Arabs never even called themselves Palestinians. (Arabs cannot pronounce “P” and have no words ending in “stein”, but you know who does?). Wake up!

The Arabs never made a country there, a president/prime minister, a currency, or a capital city. They didn’t even start immigrating to there until the Jews were already doing so in the 1800s. Jerusalem has a Jewish majority in the 1867 census.

I’m Canadian too. I know all the brainwashing. Palestine is made up, dude. Palestine was the Jewish name for Palestina. When the Romans fought the Jews they renamed Israel to Palestina after the Philistines from the bible.

The CBC is literally not allowed to refer to a Palestinian terrorist as a terrorist no matter how many innocent people to terrorize. That’s official policy. We are being brainwashed. Even in University. I woke up. I went there for myself. Read tons of books I can recommend.

There was no country in the formal centralized sense, but there were lots of people who lived there and were a more or leas uniform cultural group. Part of the reason the British stole their land was that there was no centralized authority to fight them. That in no way excuses what the Britiah and Israelis have done to the Palestinian people.

A gazan was Egyptian. West Bankers were Jordanians. Jews referred to themselves and their organizations as Palestinian. The Jews fought against, not with, the British for independence.

Neighbouring countries were only a couple years old because British and French colonies were considered normal compared to self-governance.

It’s really not surprising that Israel came to be. The narrative that a culture came in a day and kicked out a country is nonsensical.

There was 100 years of Jewish community funded land buying and negotiations with occupying governments. Built on top of already established Jewish communities living there plus thousands of years of cultural and religious history tied to the land.

All while nothing resembling a Palestinian people until the later maybe third or so of the obvious in place.

The day the Jewish visitors were told how to make falafel by the Ottomans is the day the obvious would happen.

Palestinians are the immigrant Arabs to the region brought in because Jews were arriving. If there were no Israel there would be no Palestinian. Those poor Arabs are the unfortunate pawns of the Arab world, mostly born in refugee camps in Arab countries simply for a political point against Israel.

Cool than can we Germans dream of the Großdeutsches Reich again? I mean it wasn't only 1945 when we lost Lothringen, Schlesien, Ostpreußen and a few other territories.

Maybe you can precisely clarify the timeline were those regions should be left were they are or given back to the former states or People. If you're from the US perhaps have a look first which of your states you would willingly spare. ;)

Germany is still germany, and what you do within your own borders matters not to me. Israel is an illegally occupied Palestine.

You represent the perfect reason that this conflict still persists today.

You have no argument. You are clinging to any difference you can find to argue that Israel's occupation is illegitimate, even if it doesn't make sense. You want to draw a line and say all occupations after 1950 are illegitimate cause.. uh.. just cause? Ok, but that's not how the world works.

You clearly have an agenda. Either you're a brainwashed Muslim, or a brainwashed anti-Semite. Either way, there seems to be no reasoning with you, which is, somewhat ironically, why this conflict still persists to this day. There's just no reasoning with you people. You have no rational arguments, and you don't want anything but the complete abolishion of the Jewish state.

I'm neither a Muslim nor an anti-Semite. I'm a Canadian who is sick of the constant war and terror that are Israel's legacy.

In any case, you've resorted to insults, so we're done here.

Because it was only one hundred years ago that Britain stole and sold land that wasn't theirs. Over that hundred years that stolen land has grown. We should have learned over the last thousand years that all the other countries mentioned were wrong as well.

Take the L.

If it was up to me, All Federal land in the US would be given to the Native Americans. Plus key political positions. But I can't recognize land deeds more than a few hundred years old. So shit is the way it is. We need to fix what we can.

Why dont you start by finding an uninhabited island to live on? Or maybe get your DNA analyzed and see where you're "supposed" to be, based on your own subjective interpretation of what's just.

I'm an American mutt. Part English, Irish, African, and Native. I've done extensive research on my ancestry, have my GEDCOM file, and DNA from Ancestry. As for an island, I would love to but... I'm just a poor hamster, running on my wheel, in a cage made for me, and have no inclination of what is just or unjust. It's probably a programming error though...

Fair enough. I'm sure you can walk out into a section of uninhabited forest and stake a claim.

If there's none in your country, there is millions of square miles in mine - Canada. You're welcome to it, no one will know you're there anyways. Dress warm.

I appreciate the kindness.. But are you cucked?

Did you just offered me your land. I guess a thank you would be in order; However, on the way in I'm going to take your woman, clothes, and home. I won't be cold) And YOU can thank ME.. Since that appears to be your PC programming.

But seriously, America should have taken Canada in 1812. We should take it now, before you give it to all the foreigners. Years ago I looked into immigrating to Canada. Very beautiful country with kind and friendly people. You included, but you need to wake up please. Shit isn't as it appears. And stop trying to put me in a box or corner. Nobody puts baby in a corner..

No I'm very serious. I would love for you to move into the Canadian wilderness and stake out your own claim. I talked to all the other Canadians and we're fine with it. Please do it.

Amazing. You said all that shit and barely any of it is true

Hello, check this out,

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7tt89s/miko_peled_son_of_zionist_general_exposes_israels/

Miko Peled – Son of Zionist General Exposes Israel’s Lies & Brutality

It was 1948, not 1938

Yes, that's the barb.

Did you hear what Crime Minister Bibi said in Davos yesterday (to CNN)? He doesn't want a single Palestinian in his "Kingdom" called Israel.

Israel orchestrated 9/11 and needs to be held accountable. Israel's backers have completely circumvented US democracy (rr), via AIPAC. Israel routinely uses its influence over the US government and the US MSM to have the US military destroy it enemies, such as Iraq, Syria, Libya and Iran soon. Israel's representatives in Congress (Cardin, Feinstein, Schumer, etc, etc) have repeatedly attacked the 1st and 2nd Amendments and have pushed legislation designed to weaken the power of the American middle class.

In summary, Israel is a 70 year old cancer that needs to be excised.

oh come on.

Stand With Us, an Israeli Advocacy Group, Creates Streisand Effect for ‘Antisemite’ Abby Martin’s Video

If you don't support Israel right to existence, then you're effectively supporting a second holocaust. Israel has offered Palestine a two state solution in 2000 (and multiple other times iirc.) They rejected it, and refuse to come to the table on anything, because all they want is the destruction of Israel

Israel is illegitimate! Jews and all humans against Zionism!

The question is: How can you de-legitimize something (in this case the Zionist state) when it is NOT legitimate?

Leaving aside the fairy story of God’s promise, (which even if true would have no bearing on the matter because the Jews who “returned” in answer to Zionism’s call had no biological connection to the ancient Hebrews), the Zionist state’s assertion of legitimacy rests on the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the UN General Assembly’s partition plan resolution of 1947.

source https://www.countercurrents.org/hart050410.htm

Zionism’s assertion that Israel was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN General Assembly partition resolution of 29 November 1947 is pure propaganda nonsense, as demonstrated by an honest examination of the record of what actually happened. Zionism is NOT Judaism.

Jerusalem is NOT a political entity reverberated around the world. The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology.

This struggle is rooted in two convictions: Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbinic-endorsements

To call Israel illegitimate is not anti-semite. In fact, it is the opposite. To call Zionism anti-semitism is to promote senseless propaganda. It is used to shut down conversation and criticism of Zionism (apparently the only ideology that cannot be criticized on Reddit or in the public education system).

Israel is being done in the name of the everyday Jew (you know, the reasonable people who make up communities). Zionism is opposed by MANY Jews. Zionism is a tool of geopolitics. It does not represent Jews. It is, in fact, very anti-semite.

Jews Against Zionism!

Our mission is to inform the world that the State of Israel does NOT represent Jews or Judaism.

Zionism is NOT Judaism & Jerusalem is NOT a political entity reverberated around the world.

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbinic-endorsements

The State of Israel, however, paints a somewhat less cheery scene in terms of overall stability and safety.

According to the Global Peace Index (GPI) for 2016, Israel rates at 144 among 163 nations, 1 being the most peaceful country on the planet and 163 being the one with the most endemic violence and social unrest. Iceland is 1st, Syria is 163rd. The GPI calculates scores based on a wide range of actors, including political terror, displaced people, violent crime and perceptions of criminality, amongst close to twenty other influences. To put Israel’s 144 place into perspective, it ranks 29 places behind El Salvador, which has the highest homicide rate in the world.

If I were to speak candidly, giving charity to organizations that encourage Jews to move to a nation that is, statistically speaking, the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew, is anti-Semitic. Not intentionally so, there is no malicious intent in it, but the fact remains. It’s an action that’s runs against the best interests of the Jews.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/dear-friend-jewish-people

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid). Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost. It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

source http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

Why are there so many downvotes on this comment?!? This guy is speaking the truth. Are you people that stupid?

Because it is the insane ramblings of an antisemite maybe?

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-semitism

Wow. There’s a jew who actually makes sense and not frothing at the mouth with lies 24/7. I may just have to buy this jew a beer! Nice to meet you. From which dimension are you from?

Removed. Spamming same comment.

I think some of you ought to open their minds, stop being racists/Islamophobics and read a lot more because what I've been reading here is serious racism and zionism, which is a form of fascism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy Have a good day

you're effectively supporting a second holocaust

It was at that point that I realized /pol/'s strawman Zionist is closer to the real thing than I originally thought

You can be both, against the jews and Israel.

If you are against Israel, you are against an institution with specific political policies. This is fine.

If you are against Jews, that's a whole different matter already. How can you be against everyone of a particular genetic lineage or religious heritage? It's no different to someone saying "I hate Christians" or "I hate Muslims" or "I hate atheists". That just makes you a bigot.

Their influence and heritage on european people need to stop.

All the sand religions need to go back where they come 2000 years ago, the desert.

Israel is a good idea so all the jews can go their and leave my land forever.

What land do you claim to own?

Read better.

Still haven't answered the question.

EUROPE. And dont tell me that the tribes of Israel are europeans.

Lol. You claim all of Europe for yourself? A whole continent of many ethnic groups and religious beliefs.

Cant argue with you because you dont even try to thing.

Wait...this is you trying to think? Life gave you a truckload of lemons.

you do know how Christianity started. Among jews, living in the middle east.

Yeah thats why i said : Their influence and heritage on european people need to stop. In fact christianity is already wiped out in Europe, good riddance. Now we need to avoid Islam and atheism and bring back our old gods.

Right, and that is the literal definition of an anti-semite.

Pretty sure the literal definition has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with hating Jews as a group.

Right, and that's what this dude just said. He's against jews.

What he said was, you can be both.

What you said was, hating both is anti semitism.

What I said was than anti-semitism is hating jews. What I implied was that anti-zionism is hating zionism, not necessarily jews. That you can hate one without hating the other.

Why are those two things constantly conflated?

I hope you mean you have criticisms of the institution of Judaism and you're not just "against" any Jewish person.

Im against all judaism influence in Europe. So you can count Christianity too.

Jews Against Zionism!

Our mission is to inform the world that the State of Israel does NOT represent Jews or Judaism.

Zionism is NOT Judaism & Jerusalem is NOT a political entity reverberated around the world.

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbinic-endorsements

The State of Israel, however, paints a somewhat less cheery scene in terms of overall stability and safety.

According to the Global Peace Index (GPI) for 2016, Israel rates at 144 among 163 nations, 1 being the most peaceful country on the planet and 163 being the one with the most endemic violence and social unrest. Iceland is 1st, Syria is 163rd. The GPI calculates scores based on a wide range of actors, including political terror, displaced people, violent crime and perceptions of criminality, amongst close to twenty other influences. To put Israel’s 144 place into perspective, it ranks 29 places behind El Salvador, which has the highest homicide rate in the world.

If I were to speak candidly, giving charity to organizations that encourage Jews to move to a nation that is, statistically speaking, the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew, is anti-Semitic. Not intentionally so, there is no malicious intent in it, but the fact remains. It’s an action that’s runs against the best interests of the Jews.

source http://www.truetorahjews.org/dear-friend-jewish-people

FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid). Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost. It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

source http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

you keep posting this nonsense. Israel is a legitimate as anyother country. It was founded, and recognized by other nations. It is a done deal. Furthermore, the rest of your post is missing in true facts.

Removed. Spamming same comment.

Fake news

The Torah is the reference.

Those references are not in the Torah. They are mans interpretations. You gave fake news.

I have started wondering if itreally does have the right to exist, at the expense of the Palestinians? Why can't Isreal be dissolved and the land given back to the people they stole it from.

I mean, if they are going to be such bitches about allowing a 2 state solution, that's fine. Then let's just get rid of Israel so the Palestinians can have their state.

You mean Israel should give the land back to the British?

Explain how the land was stolen from anyone let alone Falestine?

A former friend of mine has now taken the red pill and is turbo Trump supporter and his mind is a Ben Garrison cartoon. Sad, he was and I guess still is a good person, just that propaganda on weak minds is a hell of a drug! He has jumped the shark and thinks Israel is the savior of the right...how this became a thing I don't know. So, I sent him this picture, and he was sure all those Jews were wrong - these facts are fake facts with people who are confused.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3DM-3EEEamw/hqdefault.jpg

If Israel really hired people to come and downvote these threads, they would actually be downvoted, unlike in reality where they are always, always upvoted. And if they wanted to hire people to downvote comments, every comment would be heavily, heavily downvoted.

Because it isn't happening in this thread yet, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

http://occultum.net/the-scary-fact-of-government-paid-internet-trolls-and-agents/

It's not just this thread. Every single thread like this gets heavily upvoted. Which undermines your thesis.

Popular opinion could be higher than the amount of paid supporters.

Israel has one of the most sophisticated technological espionage programs on the planet. If Israel wanted to create a bot net that systematically downvoted threads in a subreddit, it would be child's play, regardless of how many people upvoted those same threads.

What the israeli government does do is grant scholarships to students who post pro-israel content. Besides reddits pretty good at dealing with bots.

Yes, I'm sure that Reddit could defeat Israeli spy agencies efforts . . .

To your first claim, have any evidence for that?

It's hard to perfectly disguise bots. Honestly I don't think they would be focusing mossad or smth on reddit, they have more pressing matters. Couple years old, but I doubt the program was stopped

Thanks for the link.

Just downvoting it into the ground would be counterproductive. Some downvotes along with propaganda and counter-arguments-- exactly what we see in this thread-- would be much more effective.

If "counterarguments" are seen as a bad thing, regardless of who they come from, there is something wrong.

Lmao. God forbid that there is opposition on my anti - Israel forum! There must be paid shills.

Counterarguments, placed by professional trolls to make the opposition look bad, are a good thing, according to you.

I'll just leave that there.

USS LIBERTY

Isn't Israel more atheist these days anyway?

No, orthodox settlers in the West Bank are having 4-6 kids on average. It’s becoming increasingly more religious.

West Bank

What’s your point?

The point is Israeli society in general is much more athiest these days. The people who settle on the west bank are the extremists in their society.

That’s not totally true. In 1967 that may have been entirely true, but their has be a large influx of Israelis moving to the West Bank because the education is better, the homes are bigger, it’s much cleaner, the infrastructure is nicer, it’s closer to Jerusalem, it’s more convenient because of government aid. Pretty sure vox did a vid on this not too long ago. But even then, religious in the mainland are having much more kids than the secular.

Having children is not a direct correlation to being a theist

It generally is though. Atheist Europeans are either going child free or breeding below replacement rates. Tribal pagan-Christian Africans have 9 kids.

You're right, but that still doesn't make it a direct correlation. Theists have many kids, some ultra-religious have not

That’s why I said generally

I think you'd find it would correlate more with poverty levels than religion. I'd say it makes more sense to look at the correlation between poverty and religion than religion and breeding rate (im sure theres a better word for that, but idk what it is).

Yes most of the food is not kosher and pork is eaten regularly.

Why are the top 4 threads about Israel?

Is another bombshell about to hit?

Apparently everyone likes talking about the scum of the earth here.

Israel is a jewish ethnostate. It was even formed according to jewish religious prophecies, allegedly.

Well, there are Jews who have criticized Israel and they've been attacked by the Israeli lobbies.

Israel may as well be considered a violent denomination of Judaism.

Israel isn't a country either

whites whites whites whites whites

don't don't don't don't don't don't

share share share share share share

land land land land land land land

they NEVER have

Quick question, when was Israel created and who decided to put it where it is ?

If it wasn't from Hitler and his haulocaust, would there be a state of Israel today ?

Probably, yes. Jews started returning to Israel in large number starting in the early part of the 20th century.

it was the british. the entire middle east ended up controlled by the british with the fall of the ottoman empire. The idea to divide up and move populations of people to decrease intra religious strife was the means of the day in the first 40 years of the century. There were population exchanges between Greece and Turkey, Between India and Pakistan etc. the Brits tried to accomplish the same thing with the mandate in palestine. WW2 intervened. FWIW, the arabs sided with the Germans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/split+hairs

And yet how many people, especially in Europe, justify their anti-semitism by being anti Israel?

Thanks for this.

Sure you can criticize Israel without being anti-semetic, but when you place Israel under a microscope and apply double standards to every action Israel takes, and are obsessed with everything Israel does and constantly mention how the country has no right to exist, yeah it raises some questions...

Here we see you being an obedient jew loving slave. We need more anti semitism in the world. This much is clear.

You need to go outside more

Ouch that hurts jew boy.

It’ll be okay, it’s never too late to lose the hate.

Too late? I’m just getting started jew boy.

What a nightmare your life must be

It’s terrible. Half the day spent playing pin the tail on the fake jew. Absolutely terrible.

OP seems to be okay with or being good in ignoring users like u/NachoKong... At least if i would submit a thread and some idiots would highjack it with their racist nonsense i would call them out.

Or censor me like most jew run media platforms do right?

Imagine if this Israel microscope shifted a little bit east to countries like China, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Etc. And even the PA itself.

The thing that gives it away for me is the narrative of you're against Israel, you're automatically pro-Palestine. If you find yourself being motivated against Israel, sit back and watch how you're ushurred into the pro-Palestine camp. Interesting. Why not be against things both cultures do?

Why not look at things on a case by case basis instead of adopting platforms? That's how you get controlled.

This type of journalism became popular within the Bush II administration. "You're either with us, or against us."-W It has been used constantly ever sinse to create a black and white world where there is only right and wrong. It's kind of sad really, but that's what you get when 6 corporate head a control 99% of all media.

I think it became popular like 400,000 years ago when our inherently dualistic minds were developing. It's not journalism and it's not people today, it's how humans as a species see the world. We are dualistic by nature.

I'm speaking strictly to modern times, and modern journalism. It really started in the US with the end of the Fairness Doctorine, but never really escalated like it is today until Bush II.

I think that type of “with us or against us” media might have started around the revolutionary times of authoritarian dictatorship of Europe, but we can just blame the US for everything if you want.

Read what I said, numbnuts.

Removed. Rule 4.

I don't know, don't you think Us vs Them reached (at least) equal heights during McCarthyism?

The Media is what brought down MaCarthy, sooo.

I'm speaking strictly to modern times, and modern journalism. It really started in the US with the end of the Fairness Doctorine, but never really escalated like it is today until Bush II.

You are neglecting to mention the McCarthy era of the late 1940s and early 1950s. That was definitely an "You're either with us, or against us." scenario in a big way. Bush II merely copied from the recent past and invented nothing.

It was the US media that lead to the fall of McCarthy in 1954.

It was the US media that lead to the fall of McCarthy in 1954.

Yes, indeed. My point was that Bush II wasn't original in the slightest. George Bush Jr. was a classic puppet on a string with no brain of his own. It was Dick Chaney that was the evil one.

Indeed, Cheney is the evil fuck, and Bush was just as bad for being complicit. My comment, as stated more than once, was strictly referring to media narratives of everything being black and white. Until Reagan, we had the fairness doctrine that didn't allow one side of a subject without an opposing viewpoint to be presented. If you read my comments, I was speaking of modern journalism and how it reached its nexus of black and white thinking with the rise of "cable" news during the Bush II admin.

Until Reagan, we had the fairness doctrine that didn't allow one side of a subject without an opposing viewpoint to be presented.

No. This "Fairness Doctrine" you refer to was lip service. That is it was there to con the public into believing media was fair. The medias has always been heavily biased, ever since the mid 1400's. Those who own the media control the public opinion and always have. I know what you are thinking. But what you are missing is that the era of the 9/11 horror show a lot of things seemed "new", but in reality were merely brought to the light where they were in darkness in the past. Nothing original. Just a better focus. Nothing "fair"...then or now.

Until Reagan, we had the fairness doctrine that didn't allow one side of a subject without an opposing viewpoint to be presented.

Yes because it was sooo cool to legally require stations to run viewpoints from the Ku Klux Klan! Absolutely need that back.

Absolutely. Let them hang themselves with thier own words. Make a smarter argument against them. Shutting down thier speech only legitimizes thier view points to that they are censored, and "oppressed". It plays into thier hands. You don't kill an ideaology by banning it, you kill it by exposing thier flaws.

Actual I support this idea. Georgia in the 1970s had J.B. Stoner would pop up from time to time, talking about all the negros and how they are going to be stealing all the white women.

It was a hoot to watch because the local stations did everything they could to disassociate themselves from this idiot they had to give time to.

So we agree?

I agree about Cheney. Listening to Cathy O’brien’s testimon/speeches on MK Ultra, Clinton, Ford, etc. she kinda describes all the cruel, inhumane, and unthinkable torture and abuses she endured and was exposed to by various famous and powerful people in the government and then she kinda slows down and separates one from all the rest. Cheney. Says he is the purely most evil person she’s ever encountered. She can talk about being mutilated in her private parts and even showed an OBGYN the smiley face scar on camera to prove it. But she can’t talk about what Cheney did to her and others. Chilling IMO - sorry to go off topic

Any time is a good time to talk about the horror show that is Dick. It should be more common knowledge.

Tribalistic. We stick with our "tribe." Be that 49ers fans, Raiders fans, Chevy fans, Ford fans, etc. Divide and conquer, as they say.

It's not a tribe, it's Raider Nation.

Ive never met a Raider fan that Ive liked.

Hey man my dad is a raiders fan and he's a pretty alright guy

Dude, have you even seen you're dad lately?

He's off the charts.

Tell him to lose my number.

Did you just assume my tribe?

Yeah that too. But the whole "if you're not my tribe then you must be an enemy" is dualistic thinking as well.

Yes, it is exactly dualistic. The dual mind reinforces the separateness of self and other. Tribalism Is a collective phenomena of this dualistic mode of mind. Until we replace this internal conflict of self and drop the identification of "I, me, my" the external world will continue to suffer and push itself into Oblivion.

There is no difference in the observer and the observed.

I think a lot of it is on purpose though. This is exploited to push narratives. If you criticize CNN, other users try to make it seem like you trust Fox news and Trump. Sure, some of it could be people accidentally assuming you must like Trump because of our tribalistic tendencies, but it's an extremely effective propaganda technique as well.

I think that's right. Politics is a joke to distract people with the illusion of agency and choice, from the fact that we've all been duped and robbed for as long as we've lived. If everyone is blaming each other for not voting left/right then no one is looking for the real people running things behind the curtain.

It's both. We certainly tend towards dualistic thinking. At the same time, media and proganada outlets purposefully take advantage of this bias, to greater and greater effect.

Divide and conquer is an old and depressingly effective tactic. Big data analytics and social media is transforming it into an existential threat. Our ability to rationally discuss issues and come to productive solutions and compromises is being stolen from us in the night.

Social media made it vastly more effective. The powerful can now push a button to make the masses feel the way they want.

There should be a way to reverse engineer it and make predictions about the ways we are being manipulated, especially if they are sloppy about which seems likely. Then at least they'd have to mix in other factors to better obfuscate their manipulation, making it less potent for the time being

There is already a way, it is called delete.

Welcome to sloppy propaganda aka Reddit.

What vector is my propaganda aligned with? It should have a reversible trajectory

Exactly

It's embedding a multidimensional ideology space into one or two dimensions and it's the number one tool for controlling the public in an ostensibly free society.

With embedding, it's easy to predict where bridges between ideologies are forming and adjust a narrative to maintain divisions.

It's especially effective with troves of big data for modeling

Hell yes. There is a leaked NSA slide on exactly what you are talking about.

"Identifying and exploiting fracture points: Things that push a group together, things that pull a group apart" https://imgur.com/a/mCc8K

Slide taken from "The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations". https://theintercept.com/document/2014/02/24/art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations/

And "How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations". https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

No doubt a lot of shills use this tactic. A user on Reddit worked as a shill and admitted to using a technique like this . https://archive.is/PoUMo

Allied/Axis. Yorks/Anglos. Black/White. Christian/Muslim. Pro life/Pro choice.

This is not new. None of this is new.

Tis more like ; "you do as we say or we are against you"

The thing that gives away that it actually is antisemitism is that no one would ever say anti Mexico or anti Denmark or anything like that, but feel like it’s totally okay to be anti Israel

People have to resort to saying anti-israel because jews are more sensitive than an old crusty anus cavity that has sat in a wet diaper for a few days.

We didn't make their names jewish, we didn't decide their nationality or religion. We didn't decide that they should eat baby foreskins. They do that all on their own. Did we force them to eradicate an opposing group of people? (who are more semite than the Khazar fakes)

Do the bad apples speak for all jewish folks? Of course not, but common sense like that is lacking in conversations about Israels crimes.

Buddy even troll antisemitism is antisemitism. You are scum.

You must be antisemetic because I'm Jewish. No one ever stops to consider if it is a jew who is bashing on other jews. It's just not possible in the zion bootlickers mind.

You can be a jewish antisemite. Though I doubt you are jewish. Your just a shit human being.

You can be a jewish antisemite.

I think we're done here. Continuing the conversation will just lead to emotional insult flinging instead of any kind of meaningful discourse. You blindly accept Israel's military conquest as righteous so there is no changing your mind. But your country attacked my country and killed active military personnel on the USS Liberty and nothing will make that right. Israel is a parasite on the USA and the AIPAC is a blackmail ring hidden behind a lobbyist group.

because jews are more sensitive than an old crusty anus cavity that has sat in a wet diaper for a few days.

Name calling?

"We didn't decide that they should eat baby foreskins. They do that all on their own. Did we force them to eradicate an opposing group of people?"

Makign shit up to propagate antisemitism. You want name calling? Your a fucking moronic troll who, if there is a hell, has his place reserved right in the lowest levels. The world would be better off without human scum like you, and I hope you arent long for this earth because of it.

And now I think I'M done here, you neo-nazi piece of shit. muted and go right to hell.

It's not made up.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/herpes-babies-jewish-circumcision-ritual-link-rabbis-infants-a7620446.html

https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/07/health/new-york-neonatal-herpes/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/02/21/nyc-orthodox-jews-in-talks-over-ritual-after-herpes-cases/23798751/

Take a look at the Kaballah, a real good look at it. It is quite a vile form of Judaism, but not the only kind of course. You are a prime example of insult slinging instead of conversation though.

Removed. Rule 4. 1st warning.

You’re just going to let someone propagate antisemitism bullshit?!

He was talking about Israel's foreign policy and influence over the US through AIPAC, and you decided to call him a "fucking moronic troll", "human scum", and a "piece of shit." That is not allowed on this sub.

Spewing bullshit about “crust ass” Jews eating forskins is okay but calling someone out for blatant anti Semitic lies isn’t. Got it. Nice sub you got here.

Right? Maybe I'm in the camp that recognizes the Montferrat claim to the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem. There are more than two sides to the conflict.

Naa fam, you sound like you are against me. So you probably are Hitler, And also hate puppies.

Hitler never died, he's still in Argentina shit posting on 4chan /pol

Well said!

This is exactly how I feel when I challenge almost any hard left-wing ideology on Reddit. Or say one thing about Hillary Clinton or Seth Rich... watch how fast you're ushered into the pro-Trump camp. It's absolutely infuriating.

But Palestine existed before Israel... Not to mention the mad land grab, forcing people out of their homes- pushes me more in support of Palestine.

I'll stand up for anyone being oppressed its not about a side for me but what's right. That being said, are you aware of the history of the Balfour Declaration?

Palestine existed before Israel.. ok but as what? Not as a country that's forsure. If it was, who was it's leader? What was its capital? What was its currency?

It's leader was most likely the bedouin tribe cheif.

Archaeological evidence shows that khan Yunis, Ramallah and Jenin were major trade areas, so any of them could be it.

It's currency was gold.

Israel was established in 1948. So the country Palestine existed in 1947. There should be records available - heck even living people with memories - of who was the leader and where the capital was

You mean the nation that existed thousands of years ago should have people alive remembering who they were ?

Didn't say you need to have people alive to confirm history. But if Palestine existed before Israel there should still be people alive who remember who its leader was.

And btw all Muslims who know the Quran know that Israel is the land of the Jews. In Arabic it's called Yahuda and Jews are Yahuds. This is not something Jews just made up recently. It's been in the Muslim holy book for 1600 years

Weirdly enough there are.

And btw all Muslims who know the Quran know that Israel is the land of the Jews.

Lol, not this shit again.

So please share - who was the leader of the State of Palestine before Israel was established?

Darwaza, Duzdar, Al-Umar, Khalidi.

This guy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izzat_Darwaza

He was the leader of Palestine? So he was overthrown when Israel was established? According to the Wikipedia page, he was just a low-level politician who advocated for Syrian control of Palestine. Something's fishy here. I don't think this guy was actually the leader. It wouldnt be so vague. For example, we all now who the leader of Iran was before the revolution. Why would leader of Palestine be so unclear?

It took you 5 days to come up with this ?

lmao, you're pathetic.

I think you agree with the guy you were replying to.

I think I'd rather not waste my time with a response to that and you shouldn't take my silence as any form of concurrence.

I can agree to disagree but i will not wrestle with pigs

Why be against something? Why not just be pro something. Like, pro both sides getting along and getting off their high horse. Pro both sides realizing this has been something that they've dealt with since the beginning of time. Being anti or against something never looks or sounds good.

Yeah don’t attribute this just to one side. This is a common trope and is used against me by neo cons and liberals alike.

A lot

The palestinians are not the land thieves here. The israel project has not been sullied by criminal activity, it has been a criminal activity from the start. Read up on how zionists did not hesitate to kill and maim other jews to achieve their goals, from bombing train stations to sinking ships.

Partly I think it's human nature. It's hard to understand positions in a grey area, so people mostly aren't willing to try.

All desert religions must end IMO, but if you ask me, Christianity is the lesser of 3 evils.

At this point American Christians are. Upholding the Zionist movement more than Jews. I know this first hand. I know a woman who donates more than 500$ q year to a scam that promises to give bibles to Jews in Israel. Yet she swears that if Americans abandon Israel we will be smirked per the Old Testament and that Jews have a biblical deed to whatever land they are want.

It's crazy when j hear her talk about this stuff. Absolute lunacy.

smirked

Nailed. It.

Christianity is objectively the best of the 3. Its just not trendy to say that. Hating on Christians is allowed because the US is mostly a Christian nation and its more acceptable to be self deprecating, even though the people doing the "self deprecating" aren't even Christian 99% of the time.

Why are you not pro-Palestine?

Wait a fucking minute that sounds perfectly logical, which is unacceptable.

Lol at you thinking you should have an opinion on either. No your land, not your people.

So you think other nations have a right to decide how your land should. E appropriated and governed?

I didn't think so.

Why not try to be skeptical of the strategies and motives of the leaders of both, and supportive of the needs of ordinary, reasonably peaceful people on both sides?

The real conspiracies probably involve troublemakers on both sides who keep the war going because they like strutting around looking macho.

But to Jews, it's the same thing.
If you attack Israel you attack all Jews.
It's THEIR country.

Lets not forget Israel is stolen land

So is Australia

Yeah but Australia wasn't stolen by jews

...yet.

Vegemite will never be overtaken by matza

Anglos are Jew’s

Duck and weave. This post isn't about Australia.

Yes it is. It's about stolen land, of which Australia is. It's perfectly relevant to point to other examples of a situation. Actually Australia is worse because it belonged to the Aboriginals for 40,000 years then the English tried to exterminate them. At least the Jews have a claim to the area and the country was gifted to them by the English. Nobody cares about Australia though, only Palestine. The hypocrisy is relevant.

As if the english had a right to gift it.

They absolutely didn't. I mean, no more right than the people who first took it from the Arabs/Ottomans/Romans/Jews in the first place. But the point is "the jews" didn't just come along one day and steal it. The British owned it at the time and gave it as a safe haven for jews after the holocaust. There are much worse ways to come into some land.

The Balfour declaration was signed before the holocaust. Also didn't the british sign an agreement to give the land to the arabs?

My point is that the jews didn't rock up out of nowhere one day, chase the locals off the land and declare it terra nullius. Rightly or wrongly it was gifted to them by the people who had control over it at the time.

And a declaration of sympathy is different from actually gifting the land. That isn't binding in any way. Just like if there was indeed an agreement by the British to give the land to the Arabs. I know the British were playing both sides. But the land was physically given after the holocaust.

But that's the thing, it can be argued it was wrongly given. I know you've mentioned Australia and stuff for wrongly taken land as well but none of that excuses land being wrongly taken here

I'm not trying to excuse, only to point out that people disproportonately care about Israel to other injustices in the world.

And also that if it was wrongly given, it was done so by the British. The jews had just suffered genocide throughout Europe, of course they would accept some land as safe haven.

That's because it's much easier to judge others than yourself. Anyways I get what you mean and I'm still undecided on the whole thing but I'm tired of arguing so ya, peace.

No worries man, and fair enough lol, it gets a bit like that. Peace!

They pretty much did. In 1900, The Palestinian people made up over 90% of the population of what is now Israel, the second largest religious group in the area were Christians. These people descended from the Ottoman empire and lived there in relative peace for over 400 years. They have been almost entirely displaced in less than a Century.

Also, the Balfour Declaration was written by Walter Rothschild. It wasn't that the Brits were just nice and gave this gift to the Jews, it was that zionist elements of the British Government put the entire plan into place.

No, they didn't. Terra Nullius is what the British claimed when they arrived in Australia. It means the land is empty with no inhabidents and they are therefore legally allowed to take it.

The jews didn't seize or take anything. The British had already taken over the area and they gifted it to them.

Notice that the common group here is the British taking land.

Also AFAIK Rothschild wasn't in the British government, and even if he was it doesn't change the fact that it was the British government who both took the land initially, and then gave it to the jews.

Sure, just deny the easily verifiable facts I posted, and continue posting lies because it makes you feel better. Whatever floats your boat. Have you even looked at the authors of the Balfour declaration?

What about the fact that Rothschild was involved with the drafting changes the fact that it was the British government? If they enlisted his help, it's still their actions. What does that change?

The British government owned the land and then chose to give it to the jews. Please explain how it wasn't the decision of the British government.

Also I didn't deny anything, I said AFAIK Rothschild wasn't in the government and he wasn't, he had retired 7 years prior. Get a grip.

Okay let’s just give Australia back to the aboriginals. They had such a strong society and culture and I’m sure Australia will be better off when the whites leave. Same with South Africa.

The Aboriginals had a fascinating culture and the most diverse languages of any peoples on earth. All the different clans had their own launguage. At least they did before most of them were wiped off the planet. If you judge a culture by it's ability to farm and produce agriculture then yeah, I guess they were pretty terrible people. I would like to see you, or any other race, successfully farm Australia without modern technology though. Going by the same logic, Israel was very bare before the jews returned and developed water conservation and arid farming techniques and built cities where there was just desert. The Arabs who previously lived their weren't developing the land so what's the difference?

Australia give the Aboriginals special status - more privileges than the white. What is Israel doing? Bibi The Crime Minister does even want to let refugees come home - Find it on Youtube what he said to CNN in Davos yesterday.

Your speaking to an Autralian. They do not have special status whatsoever. It's unfortunate you think that. They round them up in police vans in the north and drop them back out in the bush to keep them away from the capitol city there. Disguisting things happen to them and no one even cares (or knows apparently).

There was an extremely recent genocide attempt that was continuing until the 1970's, making it more recent than the formation of Israel, that was called the Stolen Generation where they were taking all the babies away and giving them to white people to breed out the race.

We didn't say sorry until like 10 years ago and it was still a big issue with people not wanting to do it.

Please don't say anything about Aboriginals having any sort of treatment in Australia other than a disgusiting inhumane life that has been decimated by the British/Australians. And literally nobody cares. That's what bothers me. That's why I'm doing this.

You mean Aussies do not treat the Aboriginals like how we treat the native Indians in North America?

The Aboriginals do not have reserved land and things like that? And Affirmative Action at all? Are you serious? I am surprised. I'd check it out.

Still, what are the Palestinians asking? They are only asking to be treated EQUALLY. No more, no less. Is that too much to a NATIVE to ask?

Still, what are the Palestinians asking? They are only asking to be treated EQUALLY. No more, no less. Is that too much for a NATIVE to ask?

Not at all, I think every human being on earth deserves equal rights. I think there needs to be a solution to the problem because it can't (shouldn't) go on like this. I am all for equality and justice.

But that's why I say this. Partly because I like to draw attention to the Aboriginals, to create awareness, and partly because the hyporcracy bothers me. I hear a lot of Australians talk about how evil Israel is when they have no problem with our treatment of the Aboriginals.

I think what happened to the Aboriginals is disgusting. I think what happened to the Palestinians is terrible but ultimately it has been complicated. In both cases it was British Imperialism that has caused the issue.

The Aboriginals do not have reserved land and things like that? And Affirmative Action at all? Are you serious? I am surprised. I'd check it out.

Not in the same way that American Indians have. They are treated very well by comparison. It is so hard to rectify for the Aboriginals at this point. They are nomadic people by nature so you can't stick them in some land and say there you go, they need to move around to follow the food and water etc. It's also a lot of desert and the coast line is the populated part of Australia (by whites) so they aren't going to give them beach front areas. In the North there are more traditional people who still live a "native" lifestyle but there is still terrible treatment of them. They are not accepted in society properly. Also because of this stolen generation a lot of them are what is reffered to here as "half-caste" meaning mixed race. So they can't live in the bush because they are lighter skinned and have no knowledge or ability or neccessarily any desire to live like that but they are outcasts in society here. It's very unspoken but they just aren't accepted. I don't ever see them in the capital city I live in except for sometimes squatting in the parklands. These are mostly the mixed ones and they have big problems with alcohol becuase of the desperate situation they are put in. They aren't living traditionally there, they are just homeless. They might have special areas reserved for them in the middle of nowhere but it's not like in America, they can't really live a hybrid lifestyle. But the biggest problem is the Stolen Generation, they have no connection with their Aboriginal heritage and aren't welcome in regular Australian society. They are just lost. It's terrible. Also they don't have a big homogenious culture, they are all seperate clans who speak unique languages so you would need to rebuild these lost clans which you can't do.

The whole things is a massive black mark on Australia and it gets zero attention.

You yourself said Aussie Aboriginals are NOMADS. I supposed it's only that much you can do for nomads.

But Palestinians are not nomads. Zionists expelled them from their ancestral homes. The Brits didn't do this to the Aussie Aboriginals.

I am sure if the Aussie Aboriginals demanded, their grieves will be treated fairly. Is this the case with Israel?

If you are an intelligent Jew as your writing suggests, and if you don't have to suck up to the Zionist pressure, I will be very surprised if you agree with what the racist bigots doing in Israel.

You yourself said Aussie Aboriginals are NOMADS. I supposed it's only that much you can do for nomads.

But Palestinians are not nomads. Zionists expelled them from their ancestral homes. The Brits didn't do this to the Aussie Aboriginals.

Nomads doesn't mean they don't deserve an ancestral home, it just means their homes are very big. The Brits did do this to the Aboriginals because they forced them out of all the inhabitable places. And that is just the ones who weren't killed. Most of them were just murdered. In 1 state (which is an island) they were all marched into the sea and not a single Aboriginal was left.

I am sure if the Aussie Aboriginals demanded, their grieves will be treated fairly. Is this the case with Israel?

Definitely not. They have demanded and received nothing.

If you are an intelligent Jew as your writing suggests, and if you don't have to suck up to the Zionist pressure, I will be very surprised if you agree with what the racist bigots are doing in Israel.

I don't agree with a single racist bigot in the world. If that's what someone is then I simply cannot agree with that. And I don't agree witht the situation in Israel. I think it's a terrible situation for the Palestinians and my heart goes out to them. I think they are absoulutely victims. Victims to everyone; Israeli government, circumstance, and their own government as well. They have a rich government who wants them to die for a PR war so they can receive more funding. They are being used as pawns. This is why rockets are fired from schools and hospitals. If Aboriginals fired rockets there wouldn't be a single one left. Palestinian government wants to provoke Israel into killing it's civillians. Why send rockets when it will cause disproportional deaths on your side? There is no other logical reason.

So I think Palestinians are very victimised people. I think the British caused an issue first. Then I think their government first should have accepted the orginal 2 state solution instead of getting them into a war they lost. Then I think their governemnt should be working to resovle the issue, not trying to get their citizens killed for money. And I think along the way, while I do beleive the ultimate intentions of Israel is to protect it's people, they have undoubtedly done the wrong thing to Palestinians which needs to be resolved. But I think from Israeli side, it has just been a series of escalations that have centred around protecting themselves. Not saying that makes everything they did okay, just that I think that is their primary intentions and their hands have been pushed at times.

Palestinians deserve to be free and Israelis deserve to be safe. Both of these things need to happen.

In case this not mentioned in Torah or Talmud, this phenomenon is called Low Life. (Please propose to the Rabbinical council to do an addendum).

I'm not sure what any of that means sorry.

Stolen from whom? The British?

Its original arab inhabitants

original arab inhabitants

Arabs originate from Arabia.

Hence the name "Arabs".

The cykes stole that land from the Palestinians and should be destroyed for it.

Who did the Arabs take the land from?

Are you claiming that the Palestinians ruled the area before the establishment of Israel?

Fuck jew

Why are you unable to answer such a simple question?

I'm quite able to answer the question but I do not want to continue the discussion with a jew sympathizer as you are just a puppet of the zionist scum.

Removed, violation of rule 10.

Removed, violation of rule 1.

Removed, violation of rule 1.

Religion is literally the only reason Israel exists...

Religion is literally the only reason Israel exists...

Not quite. Religion is the excuse for Israel's existence. They are really there to become rich. They want the natural resources (Oil, Natural Gas...etc) and land.

? well then it was a stupid place to chose, no?

? well then it was a stupid place to chose, no?

At first glance, maybe. But the choice is a cunning one. There are a lot more natural resources in the region we call Israel then they let on.

Which ones? As far as I know the tech and finance industry is the only source of wealth in the country.

As far as I know the tech and finance industry is the only source of wealth in the country.

There is vast amounts of Oil under the land. Access to this resource is easiest from a sea drilling rig. This is the main reason that the Palestinians are targeted. If (when?) the Palestinians are gone, then Israel can claim, and sell, all this Oil.

Do you have any sources for this? Why aren't the Palestinians claiming it?

Or is it only known to you and a few conspiring Jews?

Do you have any sources for this?

Learn to use google. I have better things to do than be a public researcher. I wouldn't have made the comment if there wasn't something to find on the net.

Why aren't the Palestinians claiming it?

Have you been to Palestine recently? It takes a lot of money and resources to process that oil. Owning something like that in one thing - being able to take advantage of it is another.

Or is it only known to you and a few conspiring Jews?

First, I am not religious or Jewish. And second, try to be more polite.

I'll try again: why aren't the Palestinians talking about the oil?

Here's the simple answer: there's no oil in Palestine.

Here's the simple answer: there's no oil in Palestine.

You're sure about that? You can prove that? You don't know shit! Try doing some research before you open your big mouth, son.

You convinced me. Every country has vast oil resources that haven't been extracted yet.

Learn to use google. I have better things to do than be a public researcher. I wouldn't have made the comment if there wasn't something to find on the net.

If you're going to make a claim, at least have the balls to back it up, rather than the "GOOGLE IT" excuse.

Type this into google. "oil under Palestine" (without the quotes). You will get a whole list of articles that support my comment. I don't have the time to cut and paste 15 article references into this comment. Get them yourself.

Cool, thanks man.

If you looked up the history of early zionism. You'd see that many of the thinkers weren't religious at all. They believed in a safe - homeland for the Jews of the world to exist.

Is there such a thing as a non Jewish Jew?

You don't have to be religious to be a jew. Judaism is a culture of people. Of course people would disagree with me, but as a jew that's how I see it.

You don't have to be religious to be a jew. Judaism is a culture of people.

Theodor Herzl, the "founding father" of the political Zionist movement, described Jews as a "race", and though the perceived definition of that term has morphed over time, it was and is quite accurate, as the primary factor that Jews rely on in determining who is (or is not) Jewish is bloodline heritage.

This is not some wild-eyed theory. It has been proven repeatedly through genetic testing, and has recently been accepted as a valid "litmus test" by rabbinical a authorities in Israel.

Jews are, in fact, an extended family. A "race".

If you looked up the history of early zionism. You'd see that many of the thinkers weren't religious at all. They believed in a safe - homeland for the Jews of the world to exist.

That was the false premise Herzl and friends used to sell Zionism, to Jews and to gentile sympathizers.

Jews, the tribal nation, were facing an existential threat at the turn of the 20th century, but it was not from oppression, as claimed, rather, it was from assimilation.

There was a very real fear that Jews were on the verge of becoming extinct as a unique tribe, race, ethnicity, because emancipation allowed them to interact, intermingle and interbreed with non-Jews as never before, and Europe, especially Germany and France, were at the epicentre of this looming catastrophe.

This was not an easy problem to solve, as most Jews were quite content to merge into the societies where they resided, and their gentile neighbors were increasingly welcoming their presence.

The Zionist solution was to forge a Jewish state, which would serve as a giant Jewish ghetto, where Jews would be prote ted from assimilation by being segregated from non-Jews, just as in the "good old days" before emancipation.

Assimilating Jews would then be convinced, or, if need be, coerced, into relocating to the Jewish homeland. And they were, first from Europe, and then from nearby Arab/Islamic countries.

And it worked. The Jewish ethnostate was founded, and the flames of xenophobic paranoia were rekindled and fanned, thereby stemming the dreaded threat of extinction by assimilation, at least temporarily.

But it isn't over yet. Nearly half of all Jews in the world live in the USA, and they are "much too comfortable" with their gentile environment; they are intermarrying and interbreeding at a rate that has many Jews, religious and secular, on the verge of panic, fearing the loss of much of the "race" to assimilation, yet again.

What will be done to "save" these assimilating American Jews?

Considering the drastic measures used in Europe, I shudder at the thought.

So that is an entire different story than is taught in an academic setting or really any general education.

I ask you for a source. As many of hertzel's writings would prove you wrong

Jews haven’t had a place to live without persecution in hundreds of years. If you’re against jews having a fucking place to build lives for themselves I think that is pretty racist. And the Muslim-dominant countries that completely surround Israel feel that they deserve the land — because they are Arab descendants of the inhabitants of the holy land — and the Jews don’t — because they are Jews, and not Arabs. I think if you are against Israel you are indeed against Jews. Also, how can an average American make statements about a place on the other side of the world, when the statement is not based around freedom and liberty? If we have one international goal I’d assume it’s that, otherwise nobody asked our opinion.

And being against a country’s involvement in international affairs (as you said about Israel) doesn’t automatically mean that you are against the country as an entity — including its people. For example, it sucks that Russia is meddling in foreign governments, but if Russia’s authorities are doing shady things, I’d be against their authorities. I don’t hate Russia or the Russians. This is why I say it is racist to be anti-Israel on that basis.

Jews haven’t had a place to live without persecution in hundreds of years.

Any thoughts as to why that is?

Please, enlighten me

I was asking you if you had any notions as to why they've been ejected/persecuted in just about every nation they've inhabited.

You're the one who made the claim.

Ah I see, my bad

First thing that comes to mind is Christians hating Jews for allegedly killing Christ, that was pretty widespread in Christian nations. A bit silly to me because if Jesus never died where would Christianity be?? Another more obvious reason is simply that they’re an ethnic and cultural minority that’s very different from Europeans. They basically wandered Europe for years trying to find a living. People don’t like it when outsiders come into their land and start making lives for themselves. Same reason the Roma were always looked down upon in Europe as well.

First thing that comes to mind is Christians hating Jews for allegedly killing Christ

Ok…fair enough.

People don’t like it when outsiders come into their land and start making lives for themselves

But many groups have moved in to (non-christian) areas outside their homeland without facing the continuous persecution and ejections the Jews have. It has to be slightly more complicated than that, no?

I meant to add at the end that this is complete speculation on my part, it’s obviously extremely complex, as is the Israel-Palestine conflict. And I don’t mean to pretend to be completely educated in the subject. I’m sure few people are.

But as for non-Christian nations accepting Jews do you have an example? Russia comes to mind as being more accepting but only because basically everyone was already poor. But they were Christians as well.

But as for non-Christian nations accepting Jews do you have an example?

Lol…no I don't. I'm in the same boat as you…but I haven't heard of the same types of persecution/ejections of other ethnic/religious groups like we hear with the Jews I guess I just assumed it wasn't comparable.

Wow. This was jam packed with anti semitism.

That is a bigger problem. Nowadays you can't say anything about a certain person without someone getting triggered and accusing you of something. If a person truly educated themselves about the Israel/Palestine situation, they'd have a well-rounded opinion and they wouldn't jump at your throat as soon as you'd say something negative about their preferred side. Because they'd know about both sides and therefore they'd understand it.

But as many don't do that, you say something critical and it's as if an alarm is set off in their head. They'll immediately accuse you of something and any chance for discussion is lost from that point on. They only know the narrative the media has planted in their head and they won't listen to anything else.

They only know the narrative the media has planted in their head and they won't listen to anything else.

Also known as propaganda, which sadly, is surprisingly effective.

There are only a handful of people who are actually educated on the matter. True education for this conflict is to actually go yo those places and talk to lots and lots of people. Reading books on stuff like this isn't true education.

Of course this is the best case scenario. But this is unrealistic for most people and it would be a huge improvement if they even read the wiki article about the creation of Israel. How many even know the absolute basics?

Oh give me a break, as if its anything new to try to hide your antisemitism behind antizionism.

Not all Jews are Pro-Zion.

So all the orthodox jews that are against the state of israel are antisemitic? Nice try.

I'm basically with you on this except that I am convinced at this point that Lebanon's Hezbollah has earned my respect and support many times over.

Nice post as far as your sentiments go but just to point out: at the end you say Hamas/Hezbollah should be opposed and Israel should be opposed as well. I know you have already clarified your opinion that Israel does have a right to exist but to say you are against Israel is to say you are against it's right to exist in most contexts. Just like how you wouldn't say you're against Palestine, only Hamas. And just like how I'm not against America, only it's government. It might seem pedantic but because so many people are genuinely against Israel's right to exist, I find it helps to be explicit to avoid confusion.

This post is naive.

If you aren’t able to draw the conclusion that Israel’s Mossad orchestrated 9/11 (probably with the help of the CIA), then I highly encourage you to stop being a sheep and do some research. I would start with the “dancing Israelis” who were arrested by the FBI after someone saw them dancing, laughing, and taking video of the WTCs falling. FBI found explosives in their van and arrested them. Two months later they are set free. Two of these Israelis were Mossad agents. This is one of many connections that can be drawn to Israel. Wouldn’t be the first time our “loving ally” attacked us. This world needs to wake the fuck up. It’s sickening.

They are basically conflicting the three major discussion points, for their political advantage:

• Antisemitism (the race)
• Antizionism (the state)
• Antihassidism (the religious extremists)

Almost everyone is against the religious extremists. Many are against some actions of the state. Only very few are opposing the semitic race.

fuck the Jews anyways

the state of israel is not israel and has nothing to do with jews or judaism or semites. it is a fascist perversion of judaism in the form of a racist terroist genocidal ethnocidal cult in the form of the likud party and zionist ideology and the illegal occupation of the state of palistine.

they do this by hiding behind jews and judaism and "israel" and by profiting off the holocaust. they are behind a very large portion of the evil in this world and they shall die by the hand of jews on jewish soil to liberate the concept of israel from these evil treasonous murderous rapist assholes. #jesuslovesyou #netanyahuismybitch #israelisimmortal

What an original opinion. Really adding something valuable to the discourse here.

Why does Judaism make 2% of the population but 40+% of Ivy League graduates? Why are the Jews 55+% of Oscar winning recipients? Why is 99% of the 1% Jewish?

Come on, that's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

386, I counted once

I was actually just being sarcastic, it's funny when people take these things way too seriously.

I never seem to get past 1, I just suck on it until I get to the center.

I'm sure you suck lots of things

Right, everything to do with world conspiracy and nothing to do with genetics, education or principles...

the answers to those things are complicated. In a generation, the question will be why are Asians....

(((Asians)))

So, you're admitting some races are superior to others?

Don't you?

Yes

Races, no. Some cultures emphasise certain aspects of life over others, and that makes groups such as the Jews predominant in certain sectors.

Doesn't culture and race go hand in hand?

It is totally possible but this must not be the basis for discrimination. Because the difference is circumstantial - it may be due to environment, opportunities, culture etc, etc, etc.

In short, it's not one's own choosing to be lesser intelligent, lesser shrewd, lesser wealthy etc. Therefore, everyone should be given the fair start ... If one excel because he'she works work for it, that fine. But not through Mafia Gang-up, cronyism, nepotism like the Rocthchilds.

Who decides what is "fair?"

Because Israel practices racism, bigotry, apartheid, etc using taxpayers money of U.S. to the tune of $$$ hundreds of billion.

Because Israel bribed American politicians to do their bidding like going to war of Israel's choosing.

Because ... Endlist. This madness must stop. All decent Americans must say goodbye to Israel. Go F yourself, you racist bigot.

Reason - Refer Hitler's Nazism

It's because Jews (again, not all) are basically a bunch of brainwashed Tribal Zombies, who totally believe in Cronyism, Nepotism (see how Rothchild insisted his kid to marry only among cousins!).

Ya it kind of does. Its an ethnostate of Jews.

In fact, it is the punishment of that line of thought.

Israelis of today have literally zero connection to Jews and Hebrews of 2000-4000 years ago. Their claim of the land is therefore a bogus one. Hitler had a lot of good ideas regarding the jews: our out our. We should do the same. (Holocaust is clearly a lie so don’t think I’m saying exterminate these vermin. I’m not saying that).

The Holocaust was real, however the thing that most religious nutcases won't admit, Jews were not the only group that the Nazis sent to these concentration camps... Hell, Jews only made up around 30% of the total..

"only"

I'm just pointing out that despite the religious claiming that it was all Jews, it included many other groups...a good portion of them were despite the Christian claims, non-believers or religions or groups that Christians (particularly Catholics) despised...

Have a source for that claim?

Probably the closest one can get as there is no master list:

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008193

The holocaust was not real. The camps were real yes but here they had theater groups. Soccer pitches and lots of other goodies. Of course when the allies starved them out malnutrition eventually became a huge problem. Even for the goys.

All right, I'm game... So where is the sources to back up your claim, and discredit people who actually were survivors, the documentation that emerged out of the camps and officials. How do you discredit everything that completely calls your conspiracy bullshit and disproven?

I’m not here to argue. You have the fucking Internet right? Go look it up you lazy ass. There’s countless evidence everywhere. If you hang in conspiracy forum I would expect you to know how to find alternative information and truth online. Or are you just that fuggin stupid?

I just asked for sources. Obviously you are here to argue, otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to low brow name calling.

I know how the game goes with you jew sock puppets. I don’t argue. You can research it yourself , or not. I don’t give one fuck I really don’t.

Really now?... Considering only around 30% were Jews... Yeah I'm really a new sock puppet. To be honest, I couldn't give two fucks about the Jews, they are just another desert tribe that thinks they are something special. I have more sympathy for the Polish which 7.5 million of them were executed, more than there were Jews... But yeah let's just continue claiming that it was only Jews if it makes you feel better.

I also care more about the Poles and just about any other ethnic group on the plane. That we can agree on.

Removed: Rule 10

This is a disgusting comment. What you're proposing is ethnic cleansing. How is this any different than what you accuse Israel of?

I said not eliminate but remove from our country would be nice. I know it won’t ever happen but I can dream can’t I?

That's literally the definition of ethnic cleansing moron.

So be it. Then let’s roll up our sleeve and start scrubbing!

You know this jsir adds validity to the holocaust being real right? You hate the Jews and want to ethnically cleanse them just like Hitler's did. You're a Nazi.

Don’t hate the jews. In fact I am more loathe to Christians who fully support the zionist ideals and there are many of them! but the jews as a group are very similar to parasites. They leech off of their hosts. They also stick together rather well don’t you think? So we have a parasitical group which currently controls the monetary system which has polluted all aspects of Christian culture including Christian eschatology. And you certainly cant criticize them right? As individuals I rarely have a problem with a fake jew. It’s as a group and their belief that they are more special than the boy which creates the greater problems. Many of them don’t realize that they are actually luciferian - another major source of their natural diabolical nature.

K dude. Take it up with your buddies at stormfront.

A bit off subject , but You do know that many of the most talented Nazis were brought to the US as part of operation paperclip right?

Did you know that all your beloved Nazis were hanged or shot themselves?

No. They went to work for the US government. Werner Von Braun was out in charge of NASA. You are the product of government indoctrination camps (public schools). You have been thoroughly brainwashed.

So those executions you can see in photo and on video didn't happen and hitler didn't blow out his brains? You seem really eager to defend genocidal idiots.

Hahah you think Hitler blew his brains out? You will believe anything the government tells you I see!! You’re a good little slave. Hitler likely fled to Argentina along with many other Nazis. Footage you speak of is usually Bolshevik jews atrocities against Russians.

Hitler had a lot of good ideas regarding the jews: out out out!!

This sub is full of some really "interesting" people sometimes.

all sorts of evidence, genetic, cultural and otherwise proves this is a lie. you can say it. but it isnt true.

Hmm I've seen that genetic evidence proves Israelis and Palestinians to be almost indistinguishable genetically and was promptly supressed. Either way I don't think they have any inherent right to the land. I would gladly donate a chunk of northern canada for them to occupy and be conflict free.

There’s literally zero DNA connection to Hebrews. modern jews are more closely related to vampires.

Ain't that the truth

Israel isn't a nation, it's a state.

Great point of view. I have always been let down by all the anti-Jewish comments in a really good videos about such subjects. They always use the term "Jew" instead of "Zionist". It is not like just some dude with a Jewish name is getting kickbacks from some world conspiracy. It would be like trying to relate world events to the fact most of the people involved have "Biblical" or "Christian" names, when in fact people follow this tradition even if they are not religous. It is just the Lexicon of choices. It's not like Henry Ford, Tom Ford, Harrison Ford, and some random dude name "Insert Here" Ford, are all working to control the world together. Henry Ford likely was, but his name means nothing when compared to the random Ford dude.

I dislike Walmart because of their business practices. I will not shop there because I do not want to support those practices. My best friend works at Walmart. I still love my friend, but I don't like her employer. I do not want my friend or the thousands of her friends that work at Walmart to be unemployed. That does not mean I will support Walmart.

Not the best analogy, though, since the wal-mart employees aren't electing their Store Manager/CEO. If they were, and you still disagreed with Wal-Mart and their practices and the employees continued to elect Managers who make decisions you disagree with....

I hate Trump and the current administration yet I don't hate the majority of Americans. See how that works?

I do. But it doesn't make the employees of Walmart analogy any better.

But you also won't let Walmart lead you into an Iran War right?

Can't it be both? lolol

Why not both?

Jews have done this by design. You have to be both pro Jew and pro Israel. You have to feel bad for them and support them. I'm mean honestly, how does the DNA test results for ancestory.com say you are 4% Jewish. Lol wtf. How are you 4 percent a religion? Those people are snakes, I really dislike Jews and Israel both. To be fair, I dislike all organised religion.

Jewish is an ethnic group. Judaism is a religion. You can be one, or you can be both.

I feel like being a Jew is a race. Judaism is the religion. Israel is more "Home of the Jews". (Ivanka Trump, who practices Judaism, is not a Jew like Jared Kushner.)

But if she practices Judaism her children will be full-blooded Jews.

I think that is what the Jewish believe. For the kids to be Jewish, they must be born of a mother who practices Judaism/is a Jew

except you are wrong.

Except that what I stated was an opinion shared with many Jews.

not jews who follow jewish law. Ivanka is as much a jew as Jared. Period.

The Palestinians tm are nothing but Arabs that no one wants, they didnt start calling themselves Palestinians until after the creation of the mordern Jewish state. How about the rest of the world stay out of it either they figure out how to live together with respect for each others religious sensitivities or annihilate one another. American Jews seem to be self loathing communist fuck tards or are at least represented by such

I don't think that demonizing Israel is the solution either. From a US government perspective, Israel is a beacon of democracy and a key ally in the fight against terror. It's also not fair to say that Israel has no claim whatsoever to the land they and their ancestors had lived and prospered on for thousands of years. That doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye when Israel does something wrong, but we should still understand the importance of the state of Israel to the US and the Jewish people. A slant against Israel, in my opinion, is not solidly justified.

Some people are easily confused by the idea of being critical with Israel's politics and not being against Israel.

Actually the majority of the topics here in r/conspiracy concerning Israel or jewish people are quickly turning into anti-jewish or racist slander and Holocaust denial, see post below by u/NachoKong. A quick look into the posting history of most submitters of topics about jewish people or Israel often reveal that they are anti-jewish and instrumentalize anything wrong the Israeli government or a jewish person do for their agenda.

Any fake jew in Israel right now is living in stolen land. Moral degradation of the USA brought to you by who else: the jew. It’s cliche I know. Jew run banking, jew run Hollywood , jew run media. This is cliche for good reason.

Personally I have nothing against Torah observing jews. But most jews today are Talmud following jews. And that’s a filthy treatise against almost everything human. Again, Hitler had great ideas in expelling them from the country.

It's a dog whistle for Jew hating bigots. Cut the bullshit. Muslims and leftists can't overtly espouse anti-jew sentiment, so theyve replaced jew with zionist, or this lame excuse.

The end goal is the same for them though. Genocide. You aren't fooling anyone.

Bullshit. There were so few ovens. Concentration camps had soccer pitches and theaters. Germans treated them very humanely. Can even view these accounts from “Survivors” on YouTube. Holocaust is a complete hoax.

I support Israel. However, I agree that the Holocaust is bullshit as it is portrayed today. Jews died largely due to disease and malnutrition. All of Germany was starving towards the end of the war. The Jews took the brunt of it. Simon Wiesenthal set up the entire Holocaust narrative.

Most pics of the hololcaust are actually of the dead Russians killed by Bolshevik jews. Also it was war and everyone was starving. The Germans too. Glad you realize it’s all bullshit.

Not enough crematoriums to get rid of all the bodies that has been claimed. 6 million Jews? Maybe 2 million total, and many of those would have died of naturally causes anyhow. So then you start adding in the ones that died of disease due to malnutrition and so forth. The gas chambers and killing tricks are BS.

Exactly. Utter Bullshit propaganda. And dude no where near 2 million. 150-300k died from the atrocities of war. As you said disease, malnutrition. If you want to blame anyone for this loss of life you can blame the allied nations.

not this again. really, it was just Holocaust remembrance day. Go on Amazon, randomly pick a book from a survivor, and read it. then come back here.

You idiot. Most of those accounts are fake. It’s called propaganda. Even Eli Wiesel was proven to be a complete fraud. Many proven fakes in frauds in the holocaust business. Look it up!!

no they are not. shame on you. i have met these people. and stop spreading lies about Eli Wiesel

Do your research. Eli Wiesel the weasel is a complete fraud. Look it up. Proven. He stole the entire account. Just google Eli Wiesel fraud. Maybe duckduckgo it since google is also run buy zionist filth.

You should be ashamed - participating in this fraud against his memory -

He’s a fraud. Plain and simple. It’s documented. He stole the entire work from a Hungarian Jew. Look it up.

I did - you and them are defaming g his memory in your quest to deny the holocaust- I am not playing

There was a youtube video I saw a few years ago....I cant find it for the life of me where 2 southern baptist preachers more or less came out and said why are we helping Israel and no where in the bible it said they are the chose and we are the infedels....

Interesting as hell from time to time I see alot of the Latin American feed on FB "pray for israel" seems the brainwashing is working.

But that's just my 2 cents what do I know...

There's a really simple solution to the Israeli-Palestine problem, and I'm not being glib; just don't give a fuck and move on with your life.

I discovered this many years ago when I was watching the news about this and realised I didn't understand one of the points that came up. I decided to do some research to broaden my horizons.

The conclusion I came up with is that both sides have their good points and both sides have their bad points. You can spend many countless hours thinking about and discussing all these points but no endpoint is ever going to be reached because it's simply not a black and white situation.

The further conclusion I came up with after all this is that I genuinely don't give a shit anymore. Israel/ Palestine - it's not my problem and I'm not going to waste anymore of my time wondering about it. Make peace with each other, kill each other, I couldn't give a shit.

I actually became a lot happier within myself when I started not giving a shit, and I transferred that attitude to any other situations which are intractable and unsolveable. I recommend it to anyone; stop giving a fuck about all these problems which aren't yours and the world is instantly a simpler place. Now if the news comes on about something Israel may or may not have done, rather than try work through it and see what's true and what's lies and where the agendas are - wow, I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

Instead, just don't give it another thought and move on with your day. You'll be so much happier for it.

I do not support Israel, and think they are a dangerous country.

That being said, I have nothing against people of Jewish heritage, or people who practice the religion.

I invite you to visit our country and see for yourself that we're not so hateful as some people peg us to be.

When you critically think about the people of Israel, and Israel itself, one begins to see how kind, compassionate, and cooperative the Israelis really are.

But it's difficult in the West to cut through all the leftist-sponsored hate against the Israelis and Israel.

And that's the very reason I'd like people to cut through their own hate, and search for the great things about Israel, because there are plenty. More than what people want to believe.

Except for that giant wall controlling calaories into Gaza and the aprethied Israel has created. The reason everyone has to be military trained is for the occupation of the west Bank. The IDF is the most offensive defense force on the planet

They do that cause they are surrounded by people that would like to kill them the first chance the get

Because they literally stole Palestine with American and British assistance.

Right, so let's maintain the status quo. Palestinians are doing so well with the status quo!

That's an exact talking point from the JIDF.

You mean the giant wall that's protecting Israeli civilians that are barely 30-40 km away from Hamas' reach? (Not that it's enough to block their terror tunnels) Or what about the reason that we've been continuously attacked since the birth of Israel in 1948? So yes, we may to conscript some of the barely 8 million citizens we have to protect our country. But trust me, having 60% of your governmant's budget go to military provisions is hardly what anyone wants in Israel, and has been a part of a huge debate for years.

I'd do a bit more research about the country you criticize before you present your claims.

What convinced me to become in favor of Israel was geography. I googled all the countries where Israelis are banned from traveling to - and saw all of her enemies. I can't pretend Israel is this great force of evil when she's has all of those countries surrounding her and planning her destruction.

It's actually a minority of people in the US that think Israel is evil, but they're a loud, uneducated and very vocal minority. The simple fact that the US embassy was voted to be moved in 1995 to Jerusalem tells you how long we've felt this way about Israel.

I feel like some of it suddenly woke up due to the hate wave against Donald Trump. It seems like every move he makes, is deemed negative and inappropriate.

That thing, in turn, sets as damage against Israel; Since Trump is Pro-Israeli.

Israel is surrounded by a bunch of countries that it has started wars with. Maybe that's part of why they hate them.

It's not that simple and I think you know that.

Ok. Let's go through the chronology. Suppose I'm unfamiliar with what you're talking about - because I am - which wars, what was their basis, and against whom were they fought.

You see, I too, can also read Chomsky, and I did for my sociology undergrad, but then went and tested his various theses on the matter.

Here is the list of countries.

If you choose to remain willfully ignorant, then by all means. I'm not gonna convince you when you know there's an occupation going on.

I don't doubt most of the people are great. I just don't like what the government does. Same as I feel about my country (USA.)

I'm sure you guys, the average folks I'd run into on the street, are just fine. It's the Israeli government that's a problem.

You'd probably agree that you'd have a fine time in the US, even though the US government is terrible as well.

One of the few things I believe in the Bible is that there will never be peace in that area of the world.

Even the Israel fell in world war z.

Pls jdif shills stop downvoting go to /poli or something

but you're against Jews too.

I don't really want to start a fire in here, and I'm not being pro Israel per say, but man if you've been over there it's a whole different world.

The Muslims in the middle east cannot be reasoned with, there is NO discussion. You either believe they are correct in all aspects of everything or they will FUCKING MURDER YOU.

This isn't exaggeration or hyperbole in the slightest. You are with Islam or against it, and if you are the latter they literally want you dead, publicly

There are some amazing muslims I've met in my life from when I lived in America and Israel. It is (most) of the ones in power who cause the masses to commit terror and steer the region from peace.

I believe that. I've met many a great Muslim person in my day as well. I've also seen raging mobs killing people in the streets to applause from man, woman, and child.

Really depends a lot on where you are

Good to know. All I saw was the loud hate and the scared. I was hoping that perhaps the young people could change things as they grew to adults.

Bad shill, Israel has no right and Jews are the cause for too many of our problems for all of history.

You realize how many Jewish invented technologies you probably used to write your comment?

Yeah not too many. You praise the people who figure out the formula, not the one who puts numbers in it.

Not too many? Wow you have no idea

For starters, your TCP packets are being routed by technology developed by Leonard Kleinrock, a Jew

Hey my God told me that I'm entitled to some land so that i can make a new country! God said i can have the land that Israel and Palestine currently occupy

Does my new country now have a "right" to exist?

if so, where can i confirm that this right exists, and that it will be respected by other nations?

thanks in advance

Zionism isn't an entirely religious idea. Many early zionists and modern are completely disconnected from the religious aspect of Judaism (myself included).

what does the word "Zion" mean to you?

It's Jerusalem. That's kinda what it means by definition.

Before we get into an argument I wanna point out something funny. English speakers when saying the hebrew צִיוֹן (Pronounced Tz-ion) say זַיִן (produced Zi - on)

Funny enough, in hebrew, Zion is means "Dick", while Tz-ion means Zion, which is the Jerusalem itself.

So every time we say "Zionism", to a hebrew speaker it sounds like, "dick-ism"

Actually, the word that means dick is pronounced za-yin, but Zion still sounds closer to that than tzion.

Funny enough, in hebrew, Zion is means "Dick", while Tz-ion means Zion, which is the Jerusalem itself.

So every time we say "Zionism", to a hebrew speaker it sounds like, "dick-ism"

That's hilarious, and actually, an excellent synonym.

I don't speak Hebrew, but IMO, Zionists are certainly "dickish", generally speaking.

Honest question. Why do jews try to disrupt European societies so much throughout history?

What's an example of "disruption"?

In your opinion, what gives Americans the right to the land on which they reside?

Religion aside, every country on earth was settled at some point and conquered and re-conquered many times by many different people. Why is Israel the only one that is not allowed to do this?

oh they are

but then I'm also entitled to do the same to them because my God said it was ok to bulldoze their villages and forcibly evict anyone there

who can tell me i am in the wrong, if I'm merely the messenger of God?

Because we learn from history and we are all human. Throughout history there was 'conquerers' guilt' where the public of the invading country felt guilty for killing a bunch of people so they were told that the other people were infidels, uncivilized, or needed democracy. I like to think we as human beings have improved since then.

But if you look at history, that's not how it actually happened with Israel...Before Israel was officially recognized as a country, the UN made a deal that would divide it: half for the Israelis, half for the Palestinians; Israel accepted and the Palestinians rejected and started a war. Then Israel ended up conquering land in a war that they didn't even start. And this happened again in '67, when every Arab nation around Israel attacked, and Israel ended up on top. Israel's land as you can see, was not gained through conquest, but rather from wars that were started by other nations that occupied the land.

And anyway, by your logic, if there's no reason for America to return its land to the native Americans, why would Israel have to return its land that was gained justly (or even if you claim it was unjustly)?

I might have agreed with you in the past until Israel built illegal settlements in West Bank totally unprovoked and against international law. Most of the world was against it but they did it anyway. If Israel couldn't compromise or live within a community of nations then it means then my opinion of their government shouldn't either. The state of Israel should be wiped off the map like Sodom and Gamorrah.

There is no "community of nations"! Every surrounding country wants to wipe Israel off the map just like you! If a country is threatened by another, you can't expect them to sit around and do nothing. That's how the world works, yet for some reason there are double standards when it comes to Israel.

The West Bank was conquered by Israel, so Israel should be allowed to build there. If Mexico were to attack America tomorrow and then after the war, America gained land, would you say America can't build there?

There is no "community of nations"! Every surrounding country wants to wipe Israel off the map just like you!

No they don't. Arab countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan have made peace with Israel but unfortunately Israel is acting like a little child wanting more, more, more! There is no placating this greedy little monster. Israel is like Nazi Germany when Hitler was appeased with the Sudetenland whetting his appetite for more territory. Israel is like a cancer of humanity, the country must be eliminated.

What does Israel want that you speak of? Peace? Wow those greedy bastards! They already have "peace" with like three surrounding countries, how dare they ask for more peace!

If peace in Israel means raping seven-year-old Palestinian boys, shooting old grandmothers in their homes, or committing genocide against the poor Palestinian people then I'd hate to see what war is like for Israel.

Sources?

Even morals evolve with progress. Would you support an apartheid regime? Legal "No niggers" signs in America? Punitive expeditions into districts with the wrong ethnicity? That's what was perfectly acceptable and legal in those countries until very recently.

Any social conflict can be fixed. People can start wars, but they can also stop wars.

I am opposed to Zionist swine that feed the world lies about the past and present, and wish to usher in the Apocalypse.

I feel like I say this constantly and then I get to read a ton of racial slurs against the Jewish people... This sub is full of antisemites, but not everyone here is. I'm pretty sure they're the minority here, but they're some of the loudest voices which makes us all look bad.

Colonialism is immoral because it's violence harms the resident population. Zionism wrt continued colonialism is the problem, which displaces and angers the displaced arabs. Claims of anti-semitism for criticizing the zionists are a deliberate distraction.

Same deal with the United States -- opposing aggressive US foreign policy doesn't make a person "anti-American". If anything I'd say the opposite.

It hurts, seeing people from other countries say things like "fuck Americans", when it really is the government that should be the target of their ire.

Most of us think what our government does is stupid, or insane, or wrong. You think it's so easy to just vote in the perfect leader, and the perfect senate, and the perfect representatives? Because it's not.

The people in power choose who gets to enter politics, not the people. They make the rules, they draw the lines, they rig the elections, they control the media, they brainwash the populace, they spin the stories, and suppress the upstarts, and blackmail the good unless they join the bad, and national parties pour money into local elections to make sure the reps that they want will win.

Shit is really fucked up here, the people do not truly hold the power. We are ruled by the rich, and by corporations, and anyone who protests is painted as a crack pot.

As an outsider..... You need to fix it if you want us to not lump you in with your government.

"Most of us" is at least 160 million people. Your system is broken, and it's up to your citizens to fix it.

You are just making my point for me.

You could apply this logic to every country in the world. Why haven't the North Korean people overthrown Kim Jong Un yet? Why do the Russian people allow Putin to arrest presidential candidates? Why do some countries allow female genital mutation? Why don't many US states allow gay marriage? Why is Marijuana still considered Schedule 1?

You want the world to be black and white, and problems to be solved instantly. But that is a naive and unrealistic expectation.

The world is a complicated place. People believe different things. And people are afraid for their livelihoods, as well as their actual lives. Not every person is equal in the eyes of the law, even if the law says they are.

Gaining and keeping power is complicated and difficult. But it generally involves a lot of money and making deals and fixing the game in your favor.

Well said.

I can agree with this, but also point out that if we are honest, most Americans don't know what our government is using our money for, and we certainly don't care enough to research it. We, the people, have the power to change things, we just don't do it. And we are certainly responsible for that.

We are ruled by the rich, and by corporations

A plutocracy.

It hurts, seeing people from other countries say things like "fuck Americans", when it really is the government that should be the target of their ire.

Most of us think what our government does is stupid, or insane, or wrong. You think it's so easy to just vote in the perfect leader, and the perfect senate, and the perfect representatives? Because it's not.

The people in power choose who gets to enter politics, not the people. They make the rules, they draw the lines, they rig the elections, they control the media, they brainwash the populace, they spin the stories, and suppress the upstarts, and blackmail the good unless they join the bad, and national parties pour money into local elections to make sure the reps that they want will win.

Shit is really fucked up here, the people do not truly hold the power. We are ruled by the rich, and by corporations, and anyone who protests is painted as a crack pot.

I don't disagree with any of this, but to play devil's advocate, it's ultimately up to the people to step up en masse and demand a government that truly represents them

I only bring it up because I am so goddamn tired of corporatist bullshit infesting government on nearly every level for several decades now, and am hoping one of these discussions someday finally leads to actual organization and committed action

Yeah, it drives me mad when people say you don't support the troops if you don't support a war. Like, I'm pro firefighter, but I'm anti fire...

r/ShittyIsraeliArt

So by this reasoning we can now be anti-muslim and not be racists too right?

Oh, my sweet summer child. If you're against Israel, then the Jews are against you.

You think the Jews care about the Torah? It's the Talmud which is their true book. They aren't doing evil to gentiles, which the Talmud not only permits, but requires.

Bullshit it is. Talmudism is Judaism and it has been since the times of the Pharisees. The "Real Jews" became Christians. The Synagogue of Satan is all that's left of the Jews. They've deceived the whole world for far too long.

Israel is a jewish land from before the dude from Saudi Arabia and his friend started to invade the world.

End of the story.

Yeah, we should have killed the dude's offspring in 1000. We can still nuke his nest now.

Not trying to win mind, there is nothing to win: it's not the land of islamist.

Never was.

We even had to go kick their asses 1000 years ago to explain it nicely.

Now is time to give a definite answer. If hitting the nest won't do, we have a few hundreds of solutions in reserve. Won't deplete the arsenal and will solve the pb.

No, that's how Charles Martel or Godefroy de Bouillon were thinking. Hitler was friend with those retards paedophile.

Now Charles Martel or Godefroy, were chivalresque, and took it upon themselves to solve a problem weaker people could not tackle on their own, for the humankind.

But they did not have the definitive answer at hand like we do.

Sure just like saying you are pro-catholic but anti Vatican.

I understand where you're going with this but I disagree entirely. Supporting the Palestinian cause is an immoral fools errand. They literally have terrorist organizations as their governments and build military installations mixed as close to the populous as they can to maximize collateral damage. Muslims are a garbage people across the board because this is how they think. They don't care about human life and have no concept of non-combatants, only "infidels" and their destruction. Israel is a great way to help keep these animals in check.

Thank you for writing this. My hunch, based on everything I read) is that Isreal is a big player in covert operations and intelligence. They do a great job of hiding everything they do. It seems like many things that happen, politically, militarily etc can be traced back to Isreal.

I hate that I cannot talk about this stuff without being labeled as something I'm not. I'm not against any religion on earth... I feel that all of them are practiced in good faith, but there are a few extremists that give every religion a bad name.

I definitely separate the country with any majority religion in that country. Every country has made mistakes and every country is involved in conflict. Even many people in Isreal don't like It's leaders and their actions.

If criticizing the jews is forbidden, then it makes perfect sense that criticizing their country would also be forbidden.

Those who don't understand that are extremely naive.

^ Truly a toddlers view of things.

The only problem with your statement, while I agree in theory, is that a lot of people that complain about Israel also complain about "the damn Jews influencing the United States."

If many people complaining about Israel were fine with Jewish people then yeah I agree but it's frustrating to hear someone complain about "the damn Jews" and then hear about how Israel is messing everything up

Can't I be both?

you can also be critical of jewish culture and sociopolitical ideology without being a bigot. Cultures are not immune to criticism and powerful cultures should absolutely be criticized.

Both sides in that argument are assholes but one side keeps spying on other nations they call friends then keep it from them.

Same as how people against Islam aren't against Muslim people right?

Yup, Israel is a country. An evil one. Bottom line.

Shoutout to the protestors, every weekend on the corner of Stevens Creek and Winchester! Stay lit.

I dont dislike canadiens i just dislike canada.

What exactly is the holocaust? Is it the act of rounding up people and putting them into concentration camps? That really happened and no one is denying that it happened. But that is not the holocaust. The holocaust refers to the extermination of six million jews and their disposal by fire. All of the other people who died in the camps have nothing to do with the holocaust, they simply perished in the camps and are of no importance to the exclusivly jewish holocaust. The holocaust even has a jewish name, the Shoah. It is a scam, it never happened. No one was fed into the fires alive in a horrendous act of brutal genocide as the holocaust name and legend suggests. The bodies of people who fell victim to disease and natural causes were cremated for sanitary reasons. There was no plan for the extermination of Europes jews, this is a lie that was conjured up by the zionists to obtain Israel and it was the second time the lie was attempted in a relativly short period of time.

We are not holocaust deniers for questioning the jewish version of the story. The term holocaust denier indicates that we are denying an actual event that took place to the jews with the notion that we are mindless anti semites who wish to soil the memory of all those who died out of shear hatred. They avoid the fact that this alleged event is mired in false reports, fabricated evidence and fiction written for the sole purpose of exploiting human emotion to get the public to accept the myth out of shame, guilt and pity, three very strong emotions that are commonly used as leverage by con artists.

We are not deniers, we are sceptics. The holocaust is an event that seems to have quite a few discrepancies in it's official version and it is human nature and our right as free thinking individuals to insist on further examination of the evidence surrounding the event. The holocaust industry is up in arms over the increasing questions from the public and they are reacting exactly like con artists who have been found out and are doing everything they can to make their accusers go away. It is because of this suspicious jewish behavior surrounding the holocaust that we have become holocaust sceptics.

I think the two have become so conflated that it's hard for most of the population to tell the difference — so often when people say Israel does some shady shit (which they do), they also think that all Jews are a part of an international conspiracy (which they are not).

This is especially true when people don't know a lot about Israeli/Palestinian relations, as they see it as a black and white issue. The truth is the more you know about this, the less of an opinion of who's 'right' you actually should have.

Notice how quickly you get called an antisemite when all you are saying is that Israel is a terrorist nation.

Definitely going to take new leadership to usher a new era of peace in that region. However, i think itll have to be on their own, without the West's aid.

If criticizing the US is not Jewish in the holocaust.

I say we get rid of both Israel and Palestine, and institute a Christian ethnostate on the holy land.

The level of Information that you have is below zero. You should learn history and some facts.

We shouldn't, but we must protect our oil interests

Certainly not.

For example, I am sure no classy soul will go against this beautiful human being: -

https://youtu.be/BIyJpW4F_1M

Anna Baltzer is role model for Jews (and all the rest of racist bigots).

Anyone knows her contact? I won't be surprised she has been abducted by Mossad (instructed by Harvey Weinstein?)

A lot of centrist democrats just assume that if you are against the Israeli occupation that you're secretly a holocaust denying Klan member.

And, to be fair, there's definitely some anti-Semitic people happy to bash Israel.

holocaust

The Zionists have also abused the term "Holocaust". Wait for my next edition on "The Abuse of Holocaust". Most of the so called Holocaust Victims never siffer one single second of Holocaust! (But they shamelessly extort $69 billions from Germany so far)

Look up "The Israel Project" it is a massive document that dictates how Israel's language (that they use to discuss politics, issues,etc) affects foreign views.

https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

here it is for anyone interested.

Thanks for linking it!

How'd you like it?

This shouldn't even be an issue. Not least because many Jews all over the world oppose the Israeli government and have staged mass protests against it. Of course you almost never see it covered in the media.

What's your point?

As much as I hate the neo-liberals and the progressives, I can't stand the republic/right wing talking point that backing Israel helps the US achieve stability in the middle east. If anything, the US backing of Israel is a core reason why the middle east is in the state it is, that and supposedly spreading "democracy" through the middle east.

No foreign body receives as much foreign aid as Israel and the amount of influence pro-israeli lobbying groups have over American legislation should be cause for concern. Here you have the media loosing their mind over supposed Russian meddling in the elections, a talking point which anyone who has done even a small amount of research knows, as of yet, there is no evidence to support the claim, yet no one seems concerned with the influence another foreign state, Israel has on US policy.

The unabashed support for Israel and the Jewish plight in the middle east is tiresome. So much of their narrative rests on the Holocaust narative, and how once again they are being threatened. Meanwhile, no one seems interested in drawing the comparisons between Hitlers Nazi Germany and the current Zionist Israel. Its an ethnostate that engages in genocide, racial and religious segregation, and racial supremacy.

I can tell you know absolutely nothing about Israel because all of your allegations are based on nonsense. Have you been to Israel? Can you say for a fact that it's segregated? No you cannot. Put your money where your mouth is dumbass. Israel, like any country, has racial issues. In most countries there is a natural racial disparity. However Israel is far more progressive racially than a place like the US. But you wouldn't care to to know that because it doesn't fit your picture of what Israel is. Do you know what genocide is? Do you? Because last time I checked, casualties of war and opression from their own (Hamas and West Bank) government doesn't count. Arabs in Israel however lead perfectly normal lived. They work wherever they want, they learn wherever they want, they go wherever they want. They can even become ministers in parliament. The so called segregation you're talking about is something natural. A lot of the Arab and Muslim people in Israel tend to want to stick together and form their own communities. Happens all over the world. That's not segregation.

How is any of that an argument against what he's saying? He's objecting to a foreign country's blatant interference in US policies. You answered a tiny part of his post about how Israel isn't Heaven.

This is the exact thing that people hate about the Israel debate. People like you never really acknowledge the real issue, they just nitpick things and take them to a personal place where you can call people "ignorant bigots".

He made a blatantly wrong statement and so I felt like it needed to be refuted. I don't have to respond to his main point is can respond to anything I want. He is an ignorant bigot for saying that. Ignorance and bigotry go hand in hand.

You claim to refute me yet offer up nothing other than a few contradictory sentences and insults.

Have you read the earlier Zionist writers? The ones who many modern Zionists claim to be heavily influenced by?

As far as your question about me going there, it was my trip to Israel that started me rethinking my pro Israel stance I had garnered through my partisan politics in my younger days.

Israel holds no punches in their effort to create their own ethno state. They told us from day one, and they still tell us. Even the UN accused Israel of practicing segregation (https://electronicintifada.net/content/un-body-appalled-israels-racial-segregation-policies/11065)

You literally made no point.

Have a read pal, and then come back if you want to debate/

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/IsraelLobby.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=ceCOhdgRBoc (I generally dont like al jazeera but they do good work here)

I disagree with the policies of the United States all the time but that doesnt mean I hate Americans.

unless all of israel is jew

I’m from Israel and it kicks ass.

Tripping over yourselves to say you like Jews while hating Israel is a canard. You’ve never lived in Israel and you don’t know jack shit about it except what the media and some asshat USD Liberty mouth breather says.

Come over here and spend some serious time. Four weeks, minimum.

If you’re religious (in this sub??) head to Jerusalem. If you’re into geeked out conspiracy and technology (in this sub!) come to Tel Aviv. If you like to get high and listen to hippies playing music on ancient instruments, come dwell on the hills of Tzfat.

Until you’ve spent serious time here, shut your ignorant media infested mouth.

People on this sub should be smart enough to know that the narrative has been controlled.

Are you suggesting we didn’t go through an intifada or a second Intifada or a pull out from Gaza or support for elections in Gaza?

I don’t know what’s left but I’ll say this about your metaphor: the black slaves in the US didn’t dig terror tunnels under civilian villages. The black slaves didn’t strap bombs to their chests and blow up Sbarro pizza shops.

I’m all for love and peace. I’m trying to make peace with a group of people that care more about honor and power than they do about peace and love.

Israel is great if you are an Israeli Jew and you speak Hebrew.

I'm saying this a Palestinian who visited both sides a few years back.

It was a shit show for me and I will never return, Israelis have too much hate for outsiders. Oh you don't speak Hebrew? Well fuck you, shit service and dirty looks all day long.

Both sides have bad people, but Israel isn't some perfect utopia, so stop preaching it.

How about you start telling your Israeli friends who do their birthright every year and get brainwashed to hate Palestine to go ahead and visit the other side of the wall instead? See for yourselves the reality of the situation.

I go into the WB villages frequently.

There’s no freaking way you blame the Israelis for the way they live. Fatah lives in palaces and everyone else lives in small houses.

The corruption of a party that hasn’t held elections in over 10 years is palpable.

And it’s not like you don’t have plenty of land. Nobody stops you guys from taking EU money and buying up new property for more damned olive trees.

So, yeah. I’m sorry you weren’t treated well. I don’t see how that happened since I see Israeli Arabs at the malls and they all seem to be doing well.

In the WB, I see Fatah keeping you down and the IDF trying to keep some semblance of order after some of the Arab Muslims decide its time to pick up knives.

I hope life improves for you. It would make my life better.

Okay get s just give Australia back to the protestors, every comment would be heavily, heavily downvotted.

I'm against all religions including Judaism. Also not a fan of Israel in regards to human rights violations and rampant fascism. You may say I am Anti-Semitic but being a Jew doesn't make it alright to commit genocide and spread your special brand of ignorant mysticism.

so are you against Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yeman, China......

Yes

Being against Israel doesn't mean you hate Seinfeld either. Or pretzels for that matter, or that you can't appreciate Albert Einsteins advancements in physics. Absolutely insane how whipped people are to even think that being against Israel somehow has to do with anti-semitism. The allegation itself is prejudice.

Supposedly that quote doesn’t belong to Voltaire.

: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?"

Yep, this is why Canadians should be very concerned about all the "anti-islamaphobic" legislation that is slowly and sneakily being drafted/implemented to Canadian law virtually in lock-sep with the ever-increasing immigrant (70% Muslim) numbers, there is no party that isnt pushing for 100 million population by 2030....Its coming folks...

That quote was by a nazi. not voltaire.

The quote is also echoed by Miko Peled – Son of Zionist General Exposes Israel’s Lies & Brutality and Jimmy Carter "Peace Not Apartheid"**

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7tt89s/miko_peled_son_of_zionist_general_exposes_israels/

The quote is also echoed by Miko Peled – Son of Zionist General Exposes Israel’s Lies & Brutality and Jimmy Carter "Peace Not Apartheid"

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7tt89s/miko_peled_son_of_zionist_general_exposes_israels/

Einstein plagiarized general relativity from Henry Poincaire and Heinrich Lorentz.

Yet many responses to this are people who hate jews, not Israel.

Sure it does... it’s literally the nation of Jews.... now politely go fuck yourself you anti-Semite

Removed. Rule 4.

Here's the problem with your oversimplification: Israel is fine with Palestine existing. They've given up most of their original borders to keep other groups happy. Palestine is not okay with Israel existing. Period.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not.

My empathy is exactly why I feel the way I do. Every nation in the region wants to wipe Israel of the face of the planet and people like you are only concerned for Palestines claims of their land.

But no, please insult my character and judge it based on one point. Sick ad hominem, sociopath.

It's really just a coincidence that you're also an anti Semite

Life is so short to be hateful .. We're all the human race..

SHUT IT DOWN

Makes sense to me. If someone looked at a map of the Middle East and of all places (mostly horrible places) only picked out the second smallest country to be upset about - which just happens to be the only democratic, secular, science-driven, multicultural, stable and... Jewish - there is something a little suspicious. Nobody can objectively argue that Israel is even in the top 10 of problematic Middle Eastern countries. Anti semitism is a reasonable explanation of why someone would try

What are you talking about? All other Middle Eastern countries have as good or even better access to Europe and the US. They also have full access to a whole world of countries that Israel is boycotted from (i.e. Dubai, Malaysia)

Iran had complete Western access until their people decided to turn it into a Muslim theocracy. You can't blame "lack of access" for that. And what about the fact that most of Saudis leadership did university in the US? Clearly "access" is not an issue

Again, what are you talking about ?? Nobody "approves" who you can vote for in Israel. If that were the case, why on Earth would they approve the Balad party or other parties that actively advocate the destruction of Israel? Did you know the 3rd largest party in Israeli parliament is the Arab party? You obviously have no clue about how the Israeli system works.

There is zero comparison between Netanyahu and Putin. Literally zero.

And please share the "well documented" documentation showing America "drove" Iran to change their system to religious theocracy. Of course, it's impossible that the Ayatollahs and their interpretation of Islam were responsible. Had to be America. And America also planned for their embassy workers to be held hostage and tortured. Of course. I should've realized that.

And you also know nothing about Rabin. He was actually much more right-wing than Netanyahu

Being against Palestine doesn't mean you are against Palestinians.

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world

the more you learn about the talmud the more the facade becomes apparent;

furthermore a semite is an arab, hebrew, and african.

no fucking shit. whoever needs this distinguished for them is an idiot and it isn't worth the effort to explain shit to them

But what about the jews who control America?

It's the general belief though, wrong as it may be. It's how places that very much should not get carte blanche end up with exactly that. It was like when Obama was in office. If you disagreed with him you were a racist and your opinion didn't matter. You don't like how he handled the NDAA bullshit?! Racist!!!

If anyone "trusts" anyone in power they're in trouble tbh.

So be it. Then let’s roll up our sleeves and get cleaning!!

Parsing individual words is useless, what gives Americans the right... how this became a matter as a species see the world.

Why not be on the table.

Conversely being against jews doesn't mean you're against Israel. It might be a good thing 9 million Jews are contained and not destroying the rest of the world.

The protocols of zion are legit. Jews run America and the central banks around the world.

"both sides must abandon their current leadership and usher in an intelligent and equality governments built on mutual respect or the situation won't change." Dude are you for real. Do you not realize that this is a problem beyond what each respective government does. There will always be Palestinians who will not settle until Israel is destroyed, harming the path to peace. And there will always be Israelis unwilling to share the land, claiming that they alone should have it. A government will not change that, especially given that the West Bank hasn't had an election in more than a decade and the right wing has a death grip around Israel's government. However what I especially hate about your conspiracy is that you're so obviously anti-Israel that there's no reason to hide it. You pretend like you don't have a bias but really you're full of shit. Trying to get back on topic, I think that most of the people who hate Israel are anti-Semitic. Of course not everybody is, but a great majority are. All the BDS-esque groups and their supporters are vehemently anti-Semitic who do not believe that the Jews should have a state. Jews are targeted in Universities even if they have nothing to do with Israel. It's not just students either. Professors in many notable schools have either said or done anti-Semitic things in an inconspicuous manner. Lastly, the thing that pisses me off the most is the circlejerk going on in the comments. There is nobody giving significant pushback to your nonsense and therefore nobody learns anything. If you don't argue you don't learn when it comes to this stuff. Down vote me all you want because I couldn't care less.

You are one of those dummies. Are you fucking kidding me. You're saying that you're better than all of the people in the comments and that you support BDS. There is so little logic in what you're saying. You don't want to be branded as anti-Semitic but you're aligning yourself with an anti-Semitic organization. The base of the organization is anti-Semitism. It's not a few people who make it look bad. The fucking leader of it stated that the ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel. If anything you're showing that you're the dumbass.

I am Jewish Lmao.

That excuse or "best friends a Jew" excuse card is always conveniently placed on the table by Israel-phobes. You say you are Jewish but you speak like an Arab Supremacist or a Proleptic Dhimmi White guy who pines for ridiculous Arab victimization. This situation of fake Jew commenter who is israel phobic is seemingly a daily occurrence as I am witnessing.

Jews support BDS

Martin Luther King exposed these fraudster BDS cults:

“When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism,”

“I can say with absolute certainty that Martin abhorred anti-Semitism in all its forms, including anti-Zionism,”—Clarence B. Jones, personal attorney and close adviser to Martin Luther King Jr.

“Martin… warned repeatedly that anti-Semitism would soon be disguised as anti-Zionism.”—Clarence B. Jones, personal attorney and close adviser to Martin Luther King Jr.

“Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.”

“Israel’s right to exist as a state in security is incontestable.”

BDS has three stated goals:

• An end to the occupation. = That Israel unilaterally and unconditionally completely withdraws to the borders of May 1967, removes all the Jews currently living in that land, and dismantles the wall that has been protecting Israelis from suicide bombers.

• That everyone inside Israel is treated equally. = That Israel removes the Jewish character of the state from existence. For example the Israeli flag is seen as racist because it contains Jewish symbols (note that the existence of the crosses of St George, St Andrew and St Patrick in the UK flag would also be considered racist and thus turn the UK into an ‘Apartheid state’). The official stamp of Israel contains the Star of David – also seen as a racist law. These symbols of Jewish identification, are the ‘racist’ elements that BDS demands be dismantled.

• The ‘right of return’. – That Israel stops accommodating Jewish immigration (it defines this as a racist law) – and in turn is forced to permit millions of Palestinians to move to Israel (rather than to a Palestinian state as would occur in the two-state solution).

Israel's goals:

Israel's top priority is its continued existence as a state that is both a national home for the Jewish people and a democratic state for all its citizens, Arab and Jew alike. Israelis want to live in a secure country that exists in peace with its neighbors.

Conclusion: BDS is clearly the same maximalist Arab position as has existed since 1948. A public call for the destruction of Israel. Israel has a moral mission that supports all peoples right to Peace.

Removed. Rule 4.

Kind of like how you can be against illegal immigration from Mexico, and not be racists against all Latinos?

Weird

tell that to the foaming masses, but you won't get far.

It does if you hold Israel to a standard different than others. Most westerners who are anti Israel are just following a wave created by the most anti Semitic and hateful religion on earth.

Held less accountable? Go look at UN resolutions compared for each.

Fuck Islam and the satanic creed they follow. The bible tells us exactly what happens to them and their Mahdi in the great war that is coming.

Anyone attempting to divide Israel is going to burn in nuclear hellfire

ignore it at your own peril. Half the world believes in these prophecies

I'm sorry I only have one upvote. Here's a million zillion imaginary upvotes, though.

Lots of jews are against many of Israel's policies and even Israel itself.

I think at this point, the vast majority of the entire globe is both against Israel, as a British empirical colony set up after WW1, against the occupation and apartheid within it today, and against Ashkenazi Jews, as a diaspora people, in their own nations. As the 21st century progresses, this will only increase in frequency and intensity. It's time to rethink the approach, before another solution presents itself.

FUCK YES. Thank you so very much for putting this into words. This is the kind of thinking which needs to proliferate. I am absolutely not surprised to see some familiar names in here stirring the shit pot and doing anything to derail organic thought and constructive dialogue.

I commend you speaking this in the face of threats and all.

But it just means you don't know what you're talking about

And what part of Judaism is a cruel Islamist theocracy itself.

I have Palestinian friends and Jewish friends. I tried to get to the bottom of the whole thing by asking them about historic and current events so I could form an opinion. it was fruitless but I will say my Jewish friends get so defensive it makes it hard to talk about. not defensive as in guilty but more so just abhorred that I would dare accuse them of anything. to be fair I play devil's advocate whenever I have discussions because I get deeper discourse so my questions could of been out of pocket to both parties.

Sad that this needs to be in a conspiracy subreddit. Yes, this is confused way too often. I find people that make this error are often either malicious or fail to see the bigger picture.

The problem with that thinking is Israel is a country for the jews, its entire existence is based on that. Its easy to equate being against Israel = against jews based on that.

Hey man my daddy is a nation, Judaism is a raiders fan and he was sure all those Jews were on the language Trump uses rather of adopting platforms?

In response to your edits, being intimidated online by pro Israelis is not unusual. I got into a small debate with one in a r/worldnews thread which resulted in me receiving multiple threatening messages from multiple accounts. When responded to I had accounts made to copy my own username and spread pro Israeli bollocks. After getting the Admins involved the issue was sorted, the Israelis really are a delightful bunch of people. Interestingly I have never seen or heard of a pro-palestine user harassing pro Israeli accounts in the same manner.

Here are a few screenshots of what happened to me, all the accounts are suspended now.

https://i.imgur.com/EYWOC3o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oXpm33n.jpg?1

Weird, because you seem to be okay with judging people based on internet comments.

Israel is much more than a country to some people though and people need to understand that as well.

I'm not a religious person, but given the rhetoric coming from the major players in the War on Terror™ which is, at it's core, being marketed as a religious war, it is surprising to contrast Islam's view of Jesus vs Judaism's view of Jesus.

Islam:

Jesus is the penultimate prophet and messenger of God.

Jesus is a Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation.

Jesus is the most mentioned person in the Quran.

The Quran teaches Jesus to have been born a "pure boy" (without sin) to Mary as the result of virginal conception, similar to the event of the Annunciation in Christianity.

In Islamic theology, Jesus is believed to have performed many miracles.

Muslim belief is that Jesus did not physically die, but was instead raised alive to heaven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Judaism

You are forgetting that the Talmud is an appendix not commonly read by most Jews whereas most Muslim are perscribed to follow these doctrines you mentioned. In summary, Jews are described to the Torah, Muslims are perscribed to the Three holy books.

Talmud is an appendix not commonly read by most Jews

LMFAO...wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSrhJGGDqx0

I'm Jewish and went to Hebrew school. Talmud is not utilized by many unless they are much older. Keep dreaming.

Know why Jewish priests hated Jesus Christ?

It's Money!

Read about how Jesus chased away the Money Changers (cornered Temple Tax Coin and sell them at inflated price year fat year). THis is exactly they are doing to FED, Banks, and all our money until today.

We must all become Jesus - bott out the Money Changer > The Rocthchilds!

The thugs and cowards that are the Pro-Israel lobby.

The neurochemical rewards system in the Zionist brain is activated by inciting the American people against Islam. Rehabilitation is unlikely.

I was chatting with a pal who was streaming and he had another viewer of his posting clips and quoting lines from the movie Airplane.

It was that hilarious part when the old lady is asked if she would like something to read. She replied with, "yes, do you have anything light?". She hands her a slip of paper and says "how about this leaflet, famous jewish sports legends?".

I howled.

Later on, my pal says something like "geeez, with all the anit-semitism here....", or something like that.

Anyway, I knew he was just brainwashed to think that anything that could be "offensive" to jewish people.....even this fucking hilarious joke......would and should be termed anti-semitic.

What a joke.

Israel is a Jewish country. It's like saying that if you attack Syria you don't attack Muslims

"God bless America"

Jewish Eugenics Conspiracy - Nazi's Science, Zionist's Belief. Israel's Forced Eugenics Exposed

• “Eugenics is Nazi thing; the Zionists totally believe in it as a good science.”
• “Eugenics science" is Zionist strategy to fulfil the "Jewish Master Race.""
  

What’s wrong with Incest and Inbreeding?

• Scientifically, The great hazard of inbreeding is that it can result in the unmasking of deleterious recessives, to use the clinical language of geneticists. Each of us carries an unknown number of genes—an individual typically has between five and seven—capable of killing our children or grandchildren. These so-called lethal recessives are associated with diseases like cystic fibrosis and sickle-cell anemia.
• Most lethal genes never get expressed unless we inherit the recessive form of the gene from both our mother and father. But when both parents come from the same gene pool, their children are more likely to inherit two recessives.

But ... What happens to the Rothschild Inbreeding?

So, they didn't know about Eugenics back then?

Do they still do it till today?

Incidentally also discovered,

The Holocaust Scam - 'Compensation Neurosis'

Survivors who were not former citizens of Germany, or were not part of the German cultural milieu, were entitled to seek a disability pension.

Psychiatrist Kurt Blumenthal went so far as to claim that many survivors were just pretending to have mental problems, when he wrote in 1953 about "compensation neurosis" or "purposeful neurosis," which was ostensibly characterized by an attempt to portray oneself as having suffered great damage in order to increase compensation one would receive... Sigh.

It looks like Zionists need to study Ethics more than Eugenics.

Jewish Eugenics And The Master Race

Still going on in Israel - practice of administering forced birth control on its Ethiopian population.

“Primitive Jews” Jews of Bukharan, Georgian and Persian descent, whom he referred to as “primitive races.”

Court bans man with low IQ of 48 from having sex and More: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7uuh2w/jewish_eugenics_conspiracy_nazis_science_zionists/ http://goodizen.com/jewish-eugenics-conspiracy-nazis-science-zionists-belief-israels-forced-eugenics-exposed/

Thank you!

Israel is somehow above scrutiny and it pisses me the fuck off. They own our government. There are a significant number of Israelis in fucking congress. The only foreign citizenship allowed.

It goes deeper then the government of Israel. They are a international clique that is intelligent, powerful, and always playing the game.

I somehow doubt asking JIDF nicely will accomplish anything.

Actually there’s no hell in Judaism

That's funny.... because there's no Jewish hell

Thank you for the Talmud reference. This a point I’ve been trying to share with some friends.

I'm just endlessly amazed that the West supports a theocratic ethnostate.

That is merely a smoke screen. The West really supports hegemony. The West wants other peoples money...all of it. Supporting a theocratic ethno state is just convenient.

Which is guilty of numerous human rights violations, likely war crime violations, is armed with nuclear weapons and has openly conspired multiple times against the west out in the open. Everything from USS Liberty attack, which is now know to be a planned attack with Israel fully knowing it was an American ship, to foreign political manipulation. The west doesn't just support Israel, it bends backwards for them.

Here we see you being an obedient jew loving slave. We need more anti semitism in the world. This much is clear.

Indeed, Cheney is the evil fuck, and Bush was just as bad for being complicit. My comment, as stated more than once, was strictly referring to media narratives of everything being black and white. Until Reagan, we had the fairness doctrine that didn't allow one side of a subject without an opposing viewpoint to be presented. If you read my comments, I was speaking of modern journalism and how it reached its nexus of black and white thinking with the rise of "cable" news during the Bush II admin.

They also support, arm, and ally themselves with the Saudis which is pretty much an Islamist theocracy itself.

The modern west is a shell of itself. We basically bend over backwards for Israel and Saudi Arabia, both theocratic ethnostates who hate the west and would love nothing more than to see it collapse.

Cant argue with you because you dont even try to thing.

OP seems to be okay with or being good in ignoring users like u/NachoKong... At least if i would submit a thread and some idiots would highjack it with their racist nonsense i would call them out.

There are evolutionary penalties for delusion, and the old religions are long past their expiration dates, chock full of total BS, so yes, I do object to the idiots who continue to take comfort from a bunch of stupid stories, especially since they band together have the political clout to wreak havok in the world, as Israel is now an example, but so is Saudi, so is America.

Conspiracy is a great place to expose the lies that people conspire to inflict on us. Religion does not deserve any exception for its nefarious acts, individually or collectively. This is not the place to apologize or ignore what is really going on with religion. Its a sickness, and their gods are projections of a very conditional love that amounts to the justification of genocide. Stop the make believe on this subreddit. There are other subreddits for all that pretending elsewhere.

I'm neither a Muslim nor an anti-Semite. I'm a Canadian who is sick of the constant war and terror that are Israel's legacy.

In any case, you've resorted to insults, so we're done here.

By the way, have you heard of Chabad? Chabad is referred to as an "Orthodox" Jewish movement because it adheres to Jewish practice and observance within the guidelines of Talmudic law and its codifiers.

https://www.jns.org/chabads-massive-growth-rooted-in-several-key-ingredients-yet-defies-logic/

There is already a way, it is called delete.

I invite you to visit our country and see for yourself that we're not so hateful as some people peg us to be.

Calling Israel an ehtnostate is a flat out lie. Theocratic is also a lie.

Imagine if this Israel microscope shifted a little bit east to countries like China, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Etc. And even the PA itself.

Because it was only one hundred years ago that Britain stole and sold land that wasn't theirs. Over that hundred years that stolen land has grown. We should have learned over the last thousand years that all the other countries mentioned were wrong as well.

fuck off with that stupid bullshit.

Haha what a fucking pathetic statement. Way to twist it. We are constantly being driven home how uniquely 'evil' the white man is, wether it be through practices of colonialism right up until good ol 'white privelage'. So wtf are u on about free passes? Why is it ok to review and judge the actions of a race of people up to hundreds and hundreds of years ago, yet reviewing and judging those same actions being perpetrated by people from a cult in the fucking present time is somehow now ok? Please explain in clear cut terms without any hogwash

I was actually just being sarcastic, it's funny when people take these things way too seriously.

I never seem to get past 1, I just suck on it until I get to the center.

I feel like some of it suddenly woke up due to the hate wave against Donald Trump. It seems like every move he makes, is deemed negative and inappropriate.

That thing, in turn, sets as damage against Israel; Since Trump is Pro-Israeli.

Welcome to sloppy propaganda aka Reddit.

No, that's how Charles Martel or Godefroy de Bouillon were thinking. Hitler was friend with those retards paedophile.

Now Charles Martel or Godefroy, were chivalresque, and took it upon themselves to solve a problem weaker people could not tackle on their own, for the humankind.

But they did not have the definitive answer at hand like we do.

As an ethnic Jew, I suspect that Israel was formed as a way to rid Europe of their Jewish population

That article is about African refugees, not Jews. It even states in the article that African Jews are given immediate asylum.

Many of those same Western people behave as if they want to live in a theocratic ethnostate, as long as it's a Christian one.

Israel is surrounded by a bunch of countries that it has started wars with. Maybe that's part of why they hate them.

Fair point

read the article.

All right, I'm game... So where is the sources to back up your claim, and discredit people who actually were survivors, the documentation that emerged out of the camps and officials. How do you discredit everything that completely calls your conspiracy bullshit and disproven?

Why? It's in the US's best interest to have allies around the world, not just for intelligence, but to take the heat off of us. And it's in their interest to have Big Brother America to fund/protect them.

Do you get mad at the police for having criminal informants? Just because you understand that something has a purpose does not mean you agree with everything they do.

What the israeli government does do is grant scholarships to students who post pro-israel content. Besides reddits pretty good at dealing with bots.

If anyone "trusts" anyone in power they're in trouble tbh.

Here is the list of countries.

Don’t hate the jews. In fact I am more loathe to Christians who fully support the zionist ideals and there are many of them! but the jews as a group are very similar to parasites. They leech off of their hosts. They also stick together rather well don’t you think? So we have a parasitical group which currently controls the monetary system which has polluted all aspects of Christian culture including Christian eschatology. And you certainly cant criticize them right? As individuals I rarely have a problem with a fake jew. It’s as a group and their belief that they are more special than the boy which creates the greater problems. Many of them don’t realize that they are actually luciferian - another major source of their natural diabolical nature.

Yeah! Anyone born in North America is automatically guilty of the slaughter of natives! You can't say shit, you're a native babykiller and an anti-semite!

So those executions you can see in photo and on video didn't happen and hitler didn't blow out his brains? You seem really eager to defend genocidal idiots.

Maybe you're right.

And for that matter, Green Eggs and Ham doesn't have any reference to non-Jews being beasts... so there's that.

I might have agreed with you in the past until Israel built illegal settlements in West Bank totally unprovoked and against international law. Most of the world was against it but they did it anyway. If Israel couldn't compromise or live within a community of nations then it means then my opinion of their government shouldn't either. The state of Israel should be wiped off the map like Sodom and Gamorrah.

Yes, it is exactly dualistic. The dual mind reinforces the separateness of self and other. Tribalism Is a collective phenomena of this dualistic mode of mind. Until we replace this internal conflict of self and drop the identification of "I, me, my" the external world will continue to suffer and push itself into Oblivion.

There is no difference in the observer and the observed.

Why are you unable to answer such a simple question?

Removed, violation of rule 1.

You mean the nation that existed thousands of years ago should have people alive remembering who they were ?