SS: The last time I posted "Conspiracy of Silence", the story of the Franklin child sex abuse scandal in /r/documentaries it was removed once it gained traction and reached /r/all. I noticed this happened to another user yesterday.
The current version seems to have been removed accidentally then restored a while later, but with such an oft-submitted documentary, I don't think you should read anything malicious into it.
One of the problems with this documentary is that when it is posted to YouTube, the video itself is often taken down due to copyright claims.
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If it was removed without citing the rule it broke, that's shady, and bad moderating.
Also, a common tactic is to remove posts that are riding the karma train, and let them be resubmitted. This prevents them from getting widely viewed and all you have to do is say "oops, automod fucked up".
Citing the rule that was violated prevents further rule violations, and also prevents "why'd you remove my post, you fascists!" messages. It also prevents community conjecture, this post being a prime example. And again, the karma train derail trick isn't to remove content, just to stop it from getting popular.
Being a volunteer doesn't excuse anyone for doing a poor job.
The best subs have clear rules, consistent enforcement of those rules, and transparency when those rules are enforced. When you don't do that, subs tend to go to shit.
Also, let's not pretend that /r/Documentaries is some super high traffic sub. ~30 posts in the last 24hrs, and you guys have 11 moderators. It's not like you're working a fulltime job moderating a sub like that. If it was a sub like /r/videos or something, I'd have more pity.
Most moderators tend to be very active early on, then slowly become less and less active in the subreddit until they do nothing for months. That has been my experience. A sub with 11 mods might have only two active mods.
Even with 2 active mods, /r/Documentaries is not that active of a sub to create a large workload. Furthermore, it takes less than 10 seconds to write up a single line stating what rule was violated causing the post to be removed.
You would think that's the case, and I thought the same before, but if you have a real job and other things in your life that take up time, and if you mod other subs, there isn't a whole lot of time, especially if you're monitoring the comments of each submission, checking the spam folder, refreshing the page once in a while, and participating on Reddit elsewhere. It's hard to justify spending more time moderating and double checking everything to make sure it's all perfect than posting comments elsewhere as you otherwise would because moderation is voluntary.
The most amount of time spent is probably verifying that each post is not breaking rules. For a documentary sub, the mods would have to watch at least some portion of each documentary to verify that it doesn't break any rules.
I forget to do things myself as well. I also usually won't inform the user that I removed their post if I believe they are a spammer.
If writing up a 10sec explanation is too much work, you should probably lower the amount of subs you're moderating. Again, I know that moderating is a volunteer position, but it's one that moderators choose to do, and subscribers rely on them to do a good job. If you can't devote the amount of attention necessary due to other obligations, either don't do it, or cut back on other obligations.
Like I said before, most mods have motivation in the beginning and end up stopping completely. If a mod does a decent job of taking care of the sub, a minor mistake like that does not justify telling them that they need to sacrifice even more free time to make everyone happy 100 percent of the time. Any of the other mods could have informed the OP about the removal justification, but we don't know how many of them are actually active.
There might be 100 people in this thread who all think they would be able to do a better job, but most of them would lose interest in the first month.
If you have X time to moderate subs, and you divide it by Y total subs you're moderating, if that ratio doesn't provide enough time to properly moderate a sub, then you either need to raise X or lower Y. I'm not advocating raising X, I'm saying lower Y.
"I have too many other things to worry about", then don't mod, or don't do the other things.
I would see this all the time in small businesses as well. People would take every job they could get, then they'd have to half-ass all the jobs they took because they didn't have enough time to devote to all of them, and then they get a bad reputation for their work.
Either cut down on the amount of jobs you take, or hire more help. It doesn't excuse doing a poor job.
I'm not defending moderating 250 subs, but if we're talking about the same mod, the vast majority of the subs they moderate have very little activity.
There are two subs that I check once a month or less because I haven't found enough time to work on bringing traffic to them. I assume that a lot of mods have stuff on the back burner.
The amount of subs doesn't necessarily mean they don't have enough time to do a decent job modding the highest traffic subs. Criticizing them for minor mistakes also takes time away from moderation as well because they have to explain things to people who think they are useless or modding for nefarious purposes.
That's actually not true. I used to think I would make zero mistakes as well, so I get it. Even if you do a perfect job, there are plenty of people out there who will cook up some crazy theory about the mods. I've had people claim I'm a Russian shill because they misread one of our rules. I've had people claim I work for Hillary Clinton because I had to remove a post. it's really doesn't matter if you're perfect or not. There will be the occasional highly upvoted posts in other subs claiming you are a shill or whatever. That used to ruin the motivation for me, and it probably does for a lot of other mods, but I've come to accept that this is how Reddit is.
Even if you do a perfect job, there are plenty of people out there who will cook up some crazy theory about the mods. I've had people claim I'm a Russian shill because they misread one of our rules. I've had people claim I work for Hillary Clinton because I had to remove a post.
I think OP is just stating that citing rules should be a norm. It would prevent many of the things you have problems with yourself, and it takes very little time (and provides transparency).
It's like the documentary almost invalidates the notion that pedogate is a false, partisan-fueled witch hunt, and rather shows that there's a programmatic method to suppressing information about ritual abuse.
I could be described as a lefty liberal libtard and I fully believe in pedogate. I tell everyone I know in real life and many seem to agree it is real. The joe biden video sends shivers down my spine.
I would never call a free thinker such as yourself a “libtard”. I’d save that for the people who can’t think outside of their parties talking points (republicans have the same problem). Pedogate is very real and I’m glad you’re spreading the word!
Interesting. It's an extremely important documentary. It was pulled from network TV right before it was to air, for anyone who doesn't know. Some copies got out and were posted online. So it's been all grassroots internet proliferation.
Try again in a couple weeks?
Acknowledging the reality of elite pedophilia really exposes the world we're living in and makes people stop and think.
46 comments
1 GatorNelson 2018-01-28
SS: The last time I posted "Conspiracy of Silence", the story of the Franklin child sex abuse scandal in /r/documentaries it was removed once it gained traction and reached /r/all. I noticed this happened to another user yesterday.
1 ConterminousPoverty 2018-01-28
Do you have a link i can send to a few people?
1 GatorNelson 2018-01-28
Here you go.
1 Flytape 2018-01-28
/u/cojoco
1 cojoco 2018-01-28
I think you'd have to admit that there are many many submissions of the documentary which weren't removed:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/search?q=%22conspiracy+of+silence%22&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all
The current version seems to have been removed accidentally then restored a while later, but with such an oft-submitted documentary, I don't think you should read anything malicious into it.
One of the problems with this documentary is that when it is posted to YouTube, the video itself is often taken down due to copyright claims.
1 AutoModerator 2018-01-28
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1 cojoco 2018-01-28
Stupid bot
1 Flytape 2018-01-28
I knew you'd be the one to ask, and willing to give a good answer on it.
Thankee sai
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
If it was removed without citing the rule it broke, that's shady, and bad moderating.
Also, a common tactic is to remove posts that are riding the karma train, and let them be resubmitted. This prevents them from getting widely viewed and all you have to do is say "oops, automod fucked up".
1 cojoco 2018-01-28
Mods are volunteers, apologies if we don't adhere to some rigid standard of quality.
I agree about the karma-train tactic, but please note that this is a doco that has successfully been submitted many times.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
Citing the rule that was violated prevents further rule violations, and also prevents "why'd you remove my post, you fascists!" messages. It also prevents community conjecture, this post being a prime example. And again, the karma train derail trick isn't to remove content, just to stop it from getting popular.
Being a volunteer doesn't excuse anyone for doing a poor job.
1 cojoco 2018-01-28
Sure it does.
Be thankful that many mods are regular people with no corporate agenda to push.
If unpaid mods took the time to be sticklers for exactness with no visible recompense I'd begin to worry.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
The best subs have clear rules, consistent enforcement of those rules, and transparency when those rules are enforced. When you don't do that, subs tend to go to shit.
Also, let's not pretend that /r/Documentaries is some super high traffic sub. ~30 posts in the last 24hrs, and you guys have 11 moderators. It's not like you're working a fulltime job moderating a sub like that. If it was a sub like /r/videos or something, I'd have more pity.
1 NutritionResearch 2018-01-28
Most moderators tend to be very active early on, then slowly become less and less active in the subreddit until they do nothing for months. That has been my experience. A sub with 11 mods might have only two active mods.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
Even with 2 active mods, /r/Documentaries is not that active of a sub to create a large workload. Furthermore, it takes less than 10 seconds to write up a single line stating what rule was violated causing the post to be removed.
1 NutritionResearch 2018-01-28
You would think that's the case, and I thought the same before, but if you have a real job and other things in your life that take up time, and if you mod other subs, there isn't a whole lot of time, especially if you're monitoring the comments of each submission, checking the spam folder, refreshing the page once in a while, and participating on Reddit elsewhere. It's hard to justify spending more time moderating and double checking everything to make sure it's all perfect than posting comments elsewhere as you otherwise would because moderation is voluntary.
The most amount of time spent is probably verifying that each post is not breaking rules. For a documentary sub, the mods would have to watch at least some portion of each documentary to verify that it doesn't break any rules.
I forget to do things myself as well. I also usually won't inform the user that I removed their post if I believe they are a spammer.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
If writing up a 10sec explanation is too much work, you should probably lower the amount of subs you're moderating. Again, I know that moderating is a volunteer position, but it's one that moderators choose to do, and subscribers rely on them to do a good job. If you can't devote the amount of attention necessary due to other obligations, either don't do it, or cut back on other obligations.
1 NutritionResearch 2018-01-28
Like I said before, most mods have motivation in the beginning and end up stopping completely. If a mod does a decent job of taking care of the sub, a minor mistake like that does not justify telling them that they need to sacrifice even more free time to make everyone happy 100 percent of the time. Any of the other mods could have informed the OP about the removal justification, but we don't know how many of them are actually active.
There might be 100 people in this thread who all think they would be able to do a better job, but most of them would lose interest in the first month.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
If you have X time to moderate subs, and you divide it by Y total subs you're moderating, if that ratio doesn't provide enough time to properly moderate a sub, then you either need to raise X or lower Y. I'm not advocating raising X, I'm saying lower Y.
"I have too many other things to worry about", then don't mod, or don't do the other things.
I would see this all the time in small businesses as well. People would take every job they could get, then they'd have to half-ass all the jobs they took because they didn't have enough time to devote to all of them, and then they get a bad reputation for their work.
Either cut down on the amount of jobs you take, or hire more help. It doesn't excuse doing a poor job.
1 NutritionResearch 2018-01-28
I'm not defending moderating 250 subs, but if we're talking about the same mod, the vast majority of the subs they moderate have very little activity.
There are two subs that I check once a month or less because I haven't found enough time to work on bringing traffic to them. I assume that a lot of mods have stuff on the back burner.
The amount of subs doesn't necessarily mean they don't have enough time to do a decent job modding the highest traffic subs. Criticizing them for minor mistakes also takes time away from moderation as well because they have to explain things to people who think they are useless or modding for nefarious purposes.
1 El_Dubious_Mung 2018-01-28
Which would be totally sidestepped by citing the rule they violated.
1 NutritionResearch 2018-01-28
That's actually not true. I used to think I would make zero mistakes as well, so I get it. Even if you do a perfect job, there are plenty of people out there who will cook up some crazy theory about the mods. I've had people claim I'm a Russian shill because they misread one of our rules. I've had people claim I work for Hillary Clinton because I had to remove a post. it's really doesn't matter if you're perfect or not. There will be the occasional highly upvoted posts in other subs claiming you are a shill or whatever. That used to ruin the motivation for me, and it probably does for a lot of other mods, but I've come to accept that this is how Reddit is.
1 That_Is_Precious 2018-01-28
I think OP is just stating that citing rules should be a norm. It would prevent many of the things you have problems with yourself, and it takes very little time (and provides transparency).
1 badbackjack 2018-01-28
You gotta love the fact that it keeps creeping back. For now.
1 digera 2018-01-28
Irony...
1 mentionbeinglawyer 2018-01-28
It's probably because it keeps getting posted over and over again.
1 openyoureyesagain 2018-01-28
It's probably because it keeps getting WATCHED over and over again.
1 mentionbeinglawyer 2018-01-28
I mean, I think it's a great doc, but it would be annoying if the same doc kept getting posted over and over again.
1 fuster_cluq 2018-01-28
Half of reddit is reposted shit
1 rayrayww3 2018-01-28
I wouldn't know about it if it weren't for this sub.
I've never noticed it posted on other subs within the top several pages of my feed.
1 MethylMethyl 2018-01-28
Yeah there was a period of time when it made the front page like every other week. We get it already!
1 ChicoMarxism 2018-01-28
Nah...I frequent /r/documentaries. The same shit gets re-posted all the time and stays up.
1 Deathbytiger 2018-01-28
Looks like this really is a -puts on sunglasses- Conspiracy of Silence.
YEAHHHHH
1 canitbe73 2018-01-28
Take your upvote and go.
1 pjames6 2018-01-28
It's like the documentary almost invalidates the notion that pedogate is a false, partisan-fueled witch hunt, and rather shows that there's a programmatic method to suppressing information about ritual abuse.
1 ConterminousPoverty 2018-01-28
I could be described as a lefty liberal libtard and I fully believe in pedogate. I tell everyone I know in real life and many seem to agree it is real. The joe biden video sends shivers down my spine.
1 calebdallas 2018-01-28
I would never call a free thinker such as yourself a “libtard”. I’d save that for the people who can’t think outside of their parties talking points (republicans have the same problem). Pedogate is very real and I’m glad you’re spreading the word!
1 rocketcrotch 2018-01-28
Let's give that old Streissand effect a good shot
1 EnoughNoLibsSpam 2018-01-28
what if... we went over there and made a comment in a different thread about the censorship of that one particular video
never forget gary caradori
1 jefffffffff 2018-01-28
Link anyone?
1 FitFly 2018-01-28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBSIDQt5Dwc
1 FitFly 2018-01-28
Link to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBSIDQt5Dwc
1 legalize-drugs 2018-01-28
Interesting. It's an extremely important documentary. It was pulled from network TV right before it was to air, for anyone who doesn't know. Some copies got out and were posted online. So it's been all grassroots internet proliferation.
Try again in a couple weeks?
Acknowledging the reality of elite pedophilia really exposes the world we're living in and makes people stop and think.
1 WooTs_67 2018-01-28
Mod on /r/documentaries is also a mod in tmor
1 donutmuffin 2018-01-28
Lawrence King resurfaced recently, working for a Mercedes dealership in the DC area. And he was involved with a youth opera group.
1 WereBothMadHere 2018-01-28
His name was Seth Rich
1 cojoco 2018-01-28
Stupid bot