It should be a conspiracy in and of itself that Republicans are about to gorge themselves on a memo authored by an individual that hasn’t seen the source material.

0  2018-02-01 by [deleted]

[deleted]

65 comments

No matter how hard you try, the memo is coming out.

Try to do what? I don’t give a shit about the release of the memo. The fact that people are ready to believe it is absurd.

The fact that people are ready to dismiss the memo before they've even seen it is absurd.

Why should we give any credibility to a memo about material the author hasn’t seen?

Why don't you stop hyperventilating, take a deep breath and wait and see what's released and what source documents, if any, are provided.

Honestly the memo had no credibility until Schiff and Pelosi started blindly tossing out every possible deflection on the issue, even if the deflections were seemingly contradictory.

I agree nobody should read the memo and take it at face value, but I don’t think it’s objective to just deny it 100% out of hand. Truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Hopefully we end up at the truth. It’s been 2 years and they’ve had the US intelligence apparatus involved from the get go so surely something definitive has to come out at some point, right?

I think the DOJ/FBI responses to potential publication fueled the Democrats desire to get Nunes out of the picture. They assumed that rebukes by agencies normally trusted by the public would provide the boost needed. Alas, they failed to realize that the majority would back Nunes 100% of the way.

Yeah this is a fair line of thinking.

I’m not trying to criticize you for saying people should read this memo with a critical eye for things being skewed, it’s absolutely appropriate to scrutinize this memo. I just don’t believe it’s proper for people to say it’s 100% not to be believed before even reading it.

The main argument against Nunes is his role in the unmasking saga. But there was unmasking and Susan Rice lied about the knowledge before coming around and saying “ok there was, but it was harmless.” So should we just believe her even though she lied first? Or is the truth probably somewhere in the middle?

This is politics and no one should be trusted completely and no one should be denigrated completely because both sides do everything possible to present the version of truth friendliest to their party.

The memo is hopefully a first step towards getting to the shade of grey area down the line where, hopefully, there’s some semblance of truth.

Right now everyone wants to be black and white. That’s never how things work, especially in politics and especially when the stakes are what we have here.

If Podesta wrote a memo supposedly clearing Clinton of any wrongdoing, what would your initial reaction be?

I’d snort and giggle

What if there was an ongoing investigation and you believed Clinton might be able to use the memo to end the investigation?

Some believe she actually has kinda done that.

You mean like the James Comey, "She clearly broke the law of holding classified information but she didn't do it on purpose so it's fine" as if anyone actually believes that. It's interesting to think that she was dumb enough to "accidentally" put top secret classified information on her own private server but yet still qualified to be president of the U.S...

Just keep harping on about her emails. I'm sure I'll be hearing about them for decades to come. Little old grannies on their deathbed - "but, her emails." Jesus is surely to return any minute and his first proclamation will be "but her emails."

I didn't say anything about her emails... I'm talking about the classified I that she had on our unsecured server a.k.a. SAPs. The ones Comey said she "accidentally" put on there.

I would look at the evidence he provided and refute the parts that aren't true.

What if no evidence was provided? just a memo?

Try to quit being so partisan. Wait for the Memo to be released and judge the content yourself. It really looks like people are so afraid of what the Memo may shed light on that they are trying to discredit the messenger.

I really hate this "dissenters are just afraid of the contents" approach to debate. It makes it impossible to have an honest discussion about anything.

I just don't understand why there is dissent about something that hasn't even been released yet. And what bothers me is that, even if the Memo is 100% factual and illustrates blatant corruption and political espionage, the same people will find something to complain about and dismiss it.

I'm looking forward to analyzing every detail of the Memo. If there are parts that are in dispute, I'll look at the arguments being made and decide where I stand. And I know there will be people making bad arguments, demanding that I interpret things in a certain way.

But what it comes down to, to me, is that I think these preemptive attacks on the source are pretty telling. Yes, Nunez is a Republican. Yes, he has his own bias. But so does everyone, and someone needs to bring some accountability to the unaccountable.

Nunes isn't just a republican. He was a member of Trump's transition team. He has already shown that he's more interested in protecting Trump than exposing any sort of truth.

Wray has said he'll publicly challenge the contents of the memo. That should be fun.

It all boils down to who you believe the snake is in all of this. If you're like me, and the snakes are Trump and Nunes, then this memo wreaks of propoganda. If you believe Obama is the true snake here, then Nunes and Trump are patriots fighting for truth. Only time will tell which is the case.

What if he is interested in protecting Trump from an actual abuse of power? I feel like some people hate Trump so much that any act of loyalty towards him automatically makes them a villain.

It all boils down to who you believe the snake is in all of this. If you're like me, and the snakes are Trump and Nunes, then this memo wreaks of propoganda. If you believe Obama is the true snake here, then Nunes and Trump are patriots fighting for truth.

For me, the sum of the information points to the most likely conclusion being that they thought they could get away with spying on political opponents, including Trump. Honestly, it seems almost obvious to me and I have trouble understanding how people can see it any other way. I think the Memo will most likely just confirm what I already thought.

Honestly, it seems almost obvious to me and I have trouble understanding how people can see it any other way.

I feel the same way, just in the opposite direction. It seems like we're as politically divided as we've ever been. I get to watch some Fox News with my parents sometimes and they seem to be reporting from another planet.

I think the Memo will most likely just confirm what I already thought, but I will remain skeptical.

It absolutely will. It'll confirm everything you think it will. It'll just leave out some key details.

I agree. Personally, I love dissecting arguments and trying to figure out who is bullshitting.

You might be able to do that, if the full report is released. It won't be, so we'll be stuck with two partisan reports that confirm both our views.

It'll just leave out some key details.

I love how you keep digging this hole of "I am smarter than everyone else I know for a fact this memo is a nothing burger without even reading it"...

Maybe just maybe the people you support aren't as innocent as you think they are...

If you believe Nunes' memo is going to be a balanced interpretation of the report, you're out of your mind.

Maybe just maybe, the people you're fighting against aren't as guilty as you think they are.

Judge the content how? It's based on classified information that the public doesn't have access to.

If Podesta Peter Strozk wrote a memo supposedly clearing Clinton of any wrongdoing, what would your initial reaction be?

FTFY

You don't give a shit so much that you posted on reddit about it.

So what?

Its literally meaningless. One person's biased opinion. Go look at the primary source or GTFO is my opinion. Memo is just obvious political distraction.

Gowdy has seen the source material and he has not objected.

Yah, because it achieves the goals they’re after. If they wanted us to know the truth, they’d release the FISA warrant application, not a cherry picked version of it.

Keep moving that goal post. It's funny how much push back this memo is getting that's about actual corruption. Multiple people have ready documents provided by the FBI after stalling the release of those Docs for a year. This memo has to be the real deal based on the reaction of these people alone. What's that we're always told? The only people with something to hide, are the ones afraid to disclose the truth? Corrupt bitches

It's because they'd have to admit they were wrong about the whole Russian hoax and accept the fact they've been lied to for a year by all their favorite politicians and media outlets.

Anyone who is non-partisan just wants the information out. The memo will lead to the demand to see the FISA warrants.

I've read in a few comments that they reckon the massive scandal is all of this was done without a FISA warrant.. Just a thought anyway, I get what you're saying..

OIG report should clear up this skepticism.

It should. A memo by Nunes alone is worthless on its face.

Can we just please fuck politics of this sub. Sick of it.

You know, I’d really like to go back to the old days of browsing this sub to read about aliens and giants and shit. The simple fact of the matter is that government conspiracies are the absolute pinnacle, and we are living through what could be the greatest government conspiracy of our generation.

I don't think it's a government conspiracy. It's a media conspiracy Controlled by higher powers of the government. I can't even watch a comedy programme anymore I say to everyone how long before they take the piss out of trump. It happens everytime it's so contrived and controlled it's unbearable. I stopped watching all the programmes I loved now.

It happens everytime it's so contrived and controlled it's unbearable.

Yea, this is what bugs me about it. Its just so obviously forced.

I've fucked TV off man. Just watch series or boxsets now

programs

Is this name for a show a coincidence?

Guess your right with That

The simple fact of the matter is that the ultimate nature of our reality has been called into question with the official confirmation of the UFO phenomenon.

Keep discussing the week's political distraction though... that'll really lift humanity up.

“Our generation”? Don’t be naive. This conspiracy is ancient.

No cause these things are important.

They are important but not for conspiracy they ain't. This ain't a meet out for every idiot banned from politics or the Donald

I disagree.

There is a lot more than just the memo... LOL. They can only hide for so long. Trump has everything on them, and keeps getting more.

figured you were subbed to CBST. not surprised. yall are delusional.

Maybe you are so delusional you think I am delusional.

I'll just have to read the Memo and judge for myself. Pointless to speculate over which parts of it are credible and which may not be without actually seeing it.

After reading the memo, how can you judge credibility?

It is one man's (possibly erroneous) account of something he himself didn't have full access to.

I'd judge the credibility of the claims based on whether they are corroborated by evidence or testimony from others, I'd look at the reasoning behind any counter-arguments to that claim, etc.

If he's making false claims, I think it will quickly become obvious. I expect counter-arguments regardless of the veracity of the claims, but I can typically see when someone is using bad logic to "debunk" something.

So yeah, we need way more than the memo.

Releasing the memo isn't going to change anything, other than cause more noise from both sides. Those that want to believe what's in there will, those that don't will see it as a partisan piece. I agree with you, release the underlying documents.

After a few more interactions I’m gonna reiterate my endorsement of your thinking.

I’m not even arguing with people that I’ll believe what’s in the memo. I just that I want to see it and hope to get the ball rolling on pressure to release the underlying documents. Attacked for it.

I’d say the vast majority of people are either “it’s 100% GOP bs” or “lol I’m getting my pitchfork ready”. Both takes are really stupid.

Everyone’s already made up their minds. I’m further convinced even the full unredacted report wouldn’t change anything. I don’t see anything breaching the giant chasm between two groups so entirely entrenched in the conclusion they’ve already drawn.

You're most likely correct that even full report wouldn't change much because how each side is entrenched. I guess all we can do is hope that the truth eventually wins in the end.

I’m just frustrated. I’m getting mocked by some guy simply because my comment wasn’t “hahahaha lol Nunes this is bullshit everyone shouldn’t believe it because...because. Nunes is such a liar”.

Nobody actually cares about the info at this point, they care about being validated.

The drama is being played out to a script. The deep state goes deeper, but loses some grip in the sort term, if Trump stays on.

It was a bogus investigation from the start, and all these inbred criminals are up to their necks in lies and treason, or they would not be inside the beltway. Its been that bad for a long time.

We really need to start over. Right now there is a blood lust, but unfortunately winning will be losing. And losing will be losing. The only way to win is to shut that mess down and start over, with a new set of checks and balances that do not include corporate persons or money as free speech. Or pay to play. Or insider trading by the biggest criminals. Or separate benefits for Congress that no one else gets. Has the internet come far enough now for us to scrap the crooked voting system? Blockchain for money but not for voting is kind of ridiculous.

It's a conspiracy in and of itself that both Democrats and Republicans have authored fucking "memos" about source material that is apparently controversial enough to warrant enough concern that NO ONE is offering to release that material up for review by the very fucking people that all of these fuckers are supposed to be working for - namely the citizens of the United States. I don't need any god damned political party to DETERMINE FOR ME what is, and what isn't, acceptable behavior by a law enforcement agency whose sole purpose is TO SERVE AND PROTECT ME, AND MY FUCKING RIGHTS!

So much conflicting info...

If Nunes hasn't seen any of the report, what did he write in the memo? Are they just his thoughts?

Based on the DOJ letter, and the FBI statement, Nunes seems to have written a memo about his “perceptions” of the underlying source material based on either what his aides have told him or what he believes to be true.

What people are missing is that only one rep from each party got to see the underlying source material. The R’s sent Gowdy, I don’t know who the D’s sent.

But that means out of Schiff and Pelosi, only one one could’ve gotten a direct look at the materials, and it’s possible neither had a direct look, yet both are doing everything conceivable to prevent the release or cast doubt.

By the same logic it’d be fair to cast out their arguments as illegitimate.

My take, don’t believe either side, read the memo critically, and start pushing for release of the underlying documents.

The memo will get released, only positive thing that can happen is a push to release the source material/report.

Fine. Just give us the source material too.

Devin Nunes sits on the House Intelligence Committee. He has seen the underlying documents. Saying he hasn't seen them is a complete lie. The entire committee has seen the underlying documents.

The United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, also known as the House Intelligence Committee, is a committee of the United States House of Representatives, currently chaired by Devin Nunes. It is the primary committee in the U.S. House of Representatives charged with the oversight of the United States Intelligence Community, though it does share some jurisdiction with other committees in the House, including the Armed Services Committee for some matters dealing with the Department of Defense and the various branches of the U.S. military.

The FBI, along with every Intelligence Agency, is required to turn over whatever the Committee asks them for as part of their oversight responsibilities.

That whole checks and balances thing.

What if there was an ongoing investigation and you believed Clinton might be able to use the memo to end the investigation?

figured you were subbed to CBST. not surprised. yall are delusional.

If you believe Nunes' memo is going to be a balanced interpretation of the report, you're out of your mind.

Maybe just maybe, the people you're fighting against aren't as guilty as you think they are.