Has Melissa disappeared?

So Melissa is missing?

I get that, but what is the story of Melissa as Melissa? Did she die? Go missing? Or is she still present and living the lives of both Melissa and Avril?

Well this to me is a very important part of the puzzle you seemed to miss.

Melissa was replaced by a girl called Jessica Vandersand that looked like her, so Melissa's friends and family never suspected anything.

So, what's the back story of how Jessica died or dissappered?

Well, the family and friends of Jessica Vandersand didn't expect anything because Jessica was replaced by Marvy Schneider.

But Marvy has eleven toes, and Jessica only has ten. What is the back story of the toe, how did it go missing?

This is meant to be satire...right?

I mean at least with McCartney i get the point. Its the Beatles.

But she's just a random Popstar of which tue industry can churn out as many as they need.

Why go through such a massive effort for barely any gain? You'd have to pay off every one of her family and friends and associates to play along. If this was your daugher vor friend, would you? For how much? How long?

Even if you did against all odds convinced every one, it'd be be expensive as hell. For fucking Avril Lavigne.

Avril sold 36 million albums and 41 million singles total.
Britney sold 78 million albums and 80 million singles total.
That's a nice amount of sales but not even close to Britney. Especially not in the time she allegedly killed herself. To call her "THE biggest star on Earth" only shows how much you don't know about music industry. There were much bigger players in that time, Avril was not even close to biggest.

Britney didn't sell 78 million album (frankly I'm sure it's higher) in just 1 year.

Do you even read my comment? I clearly stated "total" (selling 78 million in a year is fucking unreal) and i'm not just pulling these numbers out of my ass. Okay nevermind seems like you are not much into sale numbers.
The thing is Avril never topped any worldwide chart.
Britney's first record at the age of 17 "baby one more time" was breaking records. While Avril's first album was nowhere near to break any records. Is my point clear now?

The point is both were money makers and plenty of people would have a vested interest in keeping the money train going. Once you start touring a bunch it makes sense to get doubles and stand ins, if your star dies on you, why not attempt a switch? You arguing over how many tens of millions she sold shows me you are being a pedantic douche . Get real or just shut up, fuck.

u/schraeds

You arguing over how many tens of millions she sold shows me you are being a pedantic douche

Says the illitierate one who could not even read OP's comment.
If it was not clear enough:
My point was to eliminate the following argument : "She was the biggest star on Earth" and I did, backed up with numbers and facts.
If it was too complicated for you then I'm not surprised, juding by your tone and lack of reading ability I did not expect much from you.

It's not too complicated, just not worth it. You are arguing some random tangent you introduced. Good luck buddy!

That random tangent was introduced by OP, but okay, seems like basic comprehension is not your strong suit, and you proved it for the second time. I wonder if you are mentally disabled or just too young.

LOL. That must be it. The premise was AL was a big enough star that she was worth "replacing". Keep counting brass tacks, lil guy ;) maybe some day it will matter.

For the third time. But you can still dig yourself deeper, "lil guy"

Make it 4, kid

It's Britney, bitch

Lmao. No she wasn't. She was a shitty popstar who was big in maybe 3 countries. The Beatles were global superstars and would have had a reason to clone. Avril was a wee dick who sang about skateboarders. Hardly the voice of a generation. Ffs.

Don't record sales spike when a star dies? Couldn't the record industry turn her death into a big opportunity?

Maybe she just decided to quit and her friend Melissa replaced her. Same theory, but better explains the record company's behavior.

Lol no, but perhaps in your eyes.

a brand new career that had the potential to make millions

Even if the technology actually existed, wouldn’t the cost of making a human clone kind of cancel that out?

Biggest star on earth lmao what are you smoking

Not believing this theory myself, but I can see the double trying to cash in on that "brand" once the original was dead. Other peolpe who worked with her would've wanted to earn money, too, and it's much easier to use a famous singers second album than an unknown singers first album to get rich.

but avril lavigne wasn't like a longtime international superstar in 2003. singers and bands come and go with a couple hits. the amount of money that would need to be involved with the risk of exposure would be insane (plus, i'm sure album sales get a bump from dying at the peak of your career)

It would be horribly risky for the producers, imagine if truth would come out, the company would bankrupt like a Mini Vanilli Extravaganza

Maybe they also feared her fans would commit suicide too, in a copycat manner. I could see that happening.

Well lots of musicians have committed suicide. Kurt Cobain, Chris Cornell, Chester Bennington, to name some obvious ones. If there were any copycats I doubt it was more than a few.

I don't believe this either

But she would have been an investment, like Justin Bieber when he was scouted and then built up

Standard business fare for the talent industry.

Since their job is to build images, brands, identity, and feelings, a conspiracy to swap out a star isn't so difficult see as an option to a greedy talent agency

I mean at least with McCartney i get the idea. Its the Beatles.

The funniest part about that theory is that the guy who replaced Paul McCartney turned out a much better songwriter and musician.

What are the odds?

Paul McCartney - Temporary Secretary

This entire album is next level bananas.

Good bananas? Recommended?

Some yes some no one song has a borderline racist title so sure.

Practice

The problem with your thinking is you're thinking with a logic based in normal society. The music industry is depraved and far from your moral system. I cannot stress that enough.

If there is anything I trust the music industry to be, it’s ruthlessly profit driven, and this just isn’t cost efficient.

How is this not cost efficient? If the girl is the only one that knows outside of 2 other people, that seems extremely profitable.

It won’t just be two other people, unless she’s literally the best actress in the world her friends and family will notice and need to be paid off. Then there’s the friends and family of the actress, paying the actress herself an incredible amount of money to do this, all the plastic surgery and training required etc

this

Proof of concept

Sounds more like she agreed to something then tried backing out once she got big. Then they either replaced her to forced her to change.

Dude she was a massive pop star back then.... Like T. Swift or one of those of today.....

Where's the Tupac double, the Heath Leger replacement, the Michael Jackson reboot, and the Kurt Cobain doppelganger? If the industry does this, it should do it for Beatles-level stars. The payoff is actually worth the effort and the bigger the lie the more believable it is.

This is a fun idea. I'm sure imposters have done it successfully throughout history, in other contexts. The stakes are just so high with a heavily documented celebrity in the digital age.

Yeah that's basically my main problem with this.

I mean if this was true what is even the point? It just does not seem worth the insane amount of effort tbh.

Who gives a shit?

I don't, but OP made a good effort to make a quality post that is illustrative of how powerful people and companies work.

True or not (probably not), it's a good post.

Whether you care is important to only you.

Still though, Avril Lavigne, the Sk8er Boi girl? Hardly The Beatles, The Stones, GN'R etc. Peoples delusion should not be encouraged.

RIP The Original.

Interesting, especially the point about the ears.

They looked the same to me.

This is precisely what I was coming to say. Ears are fairly unique, and those look identical.

the 2 ear pics could be 2 same ears but pics taken from different angle

The ears could be argued to be the same as the ear on the left seems to be taken from a slightly tilted head while the ear on the right seems to be looking straight ahead. They seem similar but the one on the left looks "thinner" but again, could be down to the angle the ears were captured at. Overall, very nice ears.

indeed

Haha, we have an expert here, folks. Wrap it up, that's the final word. ;)

(See the username, if anyone's wondering)

/r/beetlejuicing

I would add that also ears grow your entire life and thus changes... (they're not like fingerprints in that respect)

You need higher rez pictures if you want this to be taken more seriously. I admit she does seem to not age. Also the ear differences and voice differences are compelling. That really does not seem to be the same person singing in the videos you linked above.

The one picture you presented saying that it is her and Melissa looks totally photoshopped.

But the fans have analyzed this picture and determined that it is not Photoshopped! The fans!

I agree. The Avril on the right looks more blurry and has a somewhat larger head.

its not even worth fighting on reddit anymore. you should post this on https://voat.co/v/conspiracy for real conversation

It's easy to go to a dermatologist and get your skin fixed. Have you see Accutane before and afters? r/SkincareAddiction has a whole crop of pictures of people who have improved the texture of their skin.

Evem just some proper diet nd stress management can help keep rashes in check. How is it even a point...next one is the gucci mane is a clone theory?

Are you arguing that someone just past their teen years had horrible skin problems, while ten years later those problems have all gone away? Isn't that pretty much what happens to most people at that age?

Damn you really believe this huh? Well lemme tell you about the proof I have the Courtney love didn’t kill Kurt that it was really, a member of motley Crüe that did it, they were trying to stomp out grunge and keep hair metal alive

That’s interesting

Fuck it I buy it.

The point I was trying to make with the no-makeup pictures is that Avril never had perfect skin, while Melissa barely even has a clogged pore.

But Avril was a teenager in 2002. Acne often clears up on its own as people enter their 20s.

It's also possible that through trial and error, Avril found a skin-care routine that works for her.

I think the ears look like the same ear photographed from two different angles.

I give you a big upvote for presentation, commitment, and a great non political conspiracy post!

But, people fix their teeth, get beauty treatments, change their style, sell-out musically, and all the other things that happen to a nerdy Canadian teen-ager, who becomes rich and famous, and moves to LA.

Also, that "totally not shopped" pic, looks shopped af! And I see more similarities than differences in those ears.

But again, I thoroughly enjoy your post, and hope there are a thousand comments by tomorrow!

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Maybe that's why she makes my ears bleed?

Maybe that's why she makes my ears bleed?

But she is not important enough for people to care. My fav conspiracy is about Taylor Swift and Perez Hilton who are satanists from the 70s/80s??

I'm intrigued, can someone link for some information of this?

Here you go.

Thank you kind sir.

She's a sellout who did a few plastic surgeries. That's a much much easier explanation than the whole clone thing.

I’ve also heard that your ears never stop growing, which could explain the ear thing. But I enjoyed this post way too much to really throw shade at it, and I think it’s too easy to just say she sold out!

haven't you ever noticed that old people have big ears and noses? Your body changes drastically over your lifetime.

That's not true.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wired.com/2010/11/ears-biometric-identification/amp

An interesting link, thanks! FTA:

When you’re born your ear is fully formed. The lobe descends a little, but overall it stays the same.

Pretty sure ears grow from birth to adulthood. This implies that they grow to scale, but some researchers in that article even cast doubt on the stability of the markers, citing iris breakdown with age.

Also if you think you can't have plastic surgery on your ears, you're wrong.

Why would you change your ears, though? Teeth, nose, facelift, all that shit, yeah.

Yeah, cos that's more ridiculous than creating a fake Avril Lavigne.

Is it so ridiculous though, really? People have attempted more outlandish things for the kind of money she was worth at the height of her career. If you thought you could get away with using an uncanny lookalike to keep that cash flowing you might give it a go.

People have attempted more outlandish things

Such as?

Maybe everything Michael Jackson? I'm just spitballing here.

Two words: Will Smith.

I was once told by a plastic surgeon that my left ear was hanging lower than my right, making my face look lopsided and that I should get it fixed. I never did, but it definitely made my self-conscious about it for the rest of my life.

Now imagine your record company "gently encouraging" you to take that doctor's advice.

Well if you don't take the doctor's advice, kiss this 10 mil contract gone.

Naw, has to be an elaborate plan involving clones to keep a C+ successful popstar churning.

The Weird Al interview with her makes her tops C-.

what a fucking asshole. i bet your ears are fine.

Doesn't really bother me and no one I know (including the person that cuts my hair) has noticed it without me telling them.

I don't take what the doctor said personally. Their career is based around finding small imperfections and modifying them. Same could be said for a dermatologist.

I went to school with a girl who got plastic surgery on her ears. They stuck out a bunch and she was made fun of because of it for years, so her parents finally let her get them "fixed" sometime in high school. People can and will get self conscious about anything and want to change it.

People are insecure about different and silly things.

I had my ears done when I was in elementary school. I was born without the fold that makes your ears go back. They stuck out really far and I was the subject of constant ridicule.

The doctor cut out a sliver of cartilage and sowed together the pieces that remained, thus creating the fold that everyone else has. i’m In my 40’s now and no one can tell that my ears aren’t OG unless I tell them.

Just like this

Women change their labia... i don't put anything beyond possible with women anymore.

Ya but huge labias can be gross. You put em in ur mouth and they're colder than the rest of it feels like you got two completely different things in your mouth.

To be honest, I have never been with a woman who had large labia.

Elf ears?

I would love to get some. I'm one of the dummies that stretched his ears pretty big....16 years ago. It only sucks at work because my hair covers that shit elsewise.

Her skin being so terrible in her younger days all but proves that.

Her skin being so terrible in her younger days all but proves that.

Yeah, great presentation,but aging really seams like a logical explanation for most of your critiques.

Nah dude, It was an Illuminati Clone. What is gained by this is unknown, but clearly its true.

Yeah that was random as fuck lmfao wtf?? That's fucking ridic hahahaha

Ever see those "Porn stars without makeup" photos?

Makeup, plastic surgery, diet, lifestyle, drama, drugs... They all affect and make or break a career in the entertainment biz.

I found the majority (but definitely not all) of those porn stars hotter without the makeup. I think I know my fetish now.

It's really that makeup is the fetish.

I like number 17 and Riley Reid without makeup. Some of the girls look like they didn't have to put a whole lot on and some did.

Those pictures just remind me how much I hate eye shadow.

And if they improved their diet and stopped using so much make-up their skin would improve.

I know a lot of women with naturally clear skin, but they don't survive off junk food, drink loads of water, and go light with the make-up.

Nice “trigger warning” at the top of the image thread.

Crab people Crap people

Taste like crab, talk like people

Selling out is not a conspiracy.

https://media.giphy.com/media/m4WBjZajkolmU/giphy.gif

Why would they replace her when so many others have died without a clone?

Did you ever read the book she put out

It’s the same person.

Glenn Danzig doesn't sound or look like he did back in the day either.

Haha I find I upvote post that are non potitical now and have put in effort even if I think there out there

Yep agreed - this is why I come here

Same. So sick of all the "Obama is corrupt" "Killery" "Trump is innocent" posts ew ew ew ew ew

Nancy Pelosi is the new punching bag. Any dem that sticks their neck out gets an axe thrown at it.

Oh it's Pelosi now? She made a face during the State of the Union. I bet it was a sort of hippie democrat left-wing woman-magic she used to control his mind right when Trump was about to expose her as the reptilian overlord she is.

You’re going to love my post later about Keanu Reeves inserting live bats into his anus.

There is also who cares. Her music is manfactured shit. Then again, this typfies conspiracy's lack of direction. Instead of banding together and addressing the red herring, a real major conspiracy and attacking it head on every day until it is debunked or proven. Shit like this works in their favour. List the top 10 that need to be addressed. Pick one that if you pull the string hard enough all the others will unravel with it.

Also, that "totally not shopped" pic, looks shopped af!

look at the hand on the shoulder lmao

But fans have “analyzed “ the picture and as we know fans are photoshop experts.

Buh muh fans!!!

The ear pic....totally the same ear. And her pouty lips which are her kill me with cuteness trademark on this love munchkin? No way they are the same. What about height? She’s tiny! Sorry...as much as you’d like this cooked up story to boost her flagging career, no. She was never as important to keep propped up like the Beatles were.

Agree on the ear pics. Looks like the first just has the head turned to present a slightly different angle.

Def not the same ear, and I don't really care about this. There's Def a difference in the lower inside lobe.

Ears do change over time. Mine look different than they did in the early 2000's

Yes their size changes, not their shape

My lobes are tad bit bigger proportionally to when i was younger. But the shape of the ears in his pics up there are pretty much the same. Only tilted.

Its fine you don't see it, I tend to disagree. Bottom of the inner lobe is more rounded all the way through the ear whereas the other doesn't round off and it complete w.o the rounding. Agree to disagree I guess.

Show us what you see.

It's the same ear.

As far as you can tell from that picture comparison.

I'm on mobile or else I would. How do I post a picture from mobile on a comment? Is that even possible

You should take an online ear lobe photography class.

Lol I will if you pay for it ;)

ear pics are taken from different angles, its possible that its the same ear

Ha! I said that the other day in this sub and got downvoted. This sub is so bizarre.

Where left's shoulder overlaps right's body you can see a thin green line. 100% shopped.

I didn’t see him say that, which pic are you talking about?

It appears OP did some edits to remove that part. The photo description was about how "fans agreed" the picture "wasn't shopped" and it looks super shopped

I'm with you on the ears. Only difference is the angle of the lighting. Those are the same ears. And if ears are truly like fingerprints as OP claims, then this is certainly debunked.

thats what i thought too... different angle, lighting, and quality of picture. you basically have to use your imagination to not be able to see that these are probably the same ears.

Ears don't change much except for getting longer due to gravity but, overall the shape never changes. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wired.com/2010/11/ears-biometric-identification/amp

Ears and nose keep growing your whole life, minutely.

Also, that "totally not shopped" pic, looks shopped af

But didn't you hear what he said? Fans have analyzed it

Best response possible.

I see more similarities than differences in those ears.

Yeah, definitely the same ear from two different photography and lighting angles.

The handwritting is clearly by the same person too.

I agree with the hand writing. Overall it might look different but you need to compare letters. If you look at the "IM" its the same in both pictures.

I also enjoyed the read and a solidly presented theory but there's a glaring overlooked keyword here "legacy" until I saw this post I had forgotten she existed. I asked my gf ( five years younger than I) she went oh yeah omg remember avril lavigne?

Thank you, the ears look exactly the same to me

You neglected to mention the ears, which are a considerable piece of evidence.

I was thinking the same thing! I believe he's 100% wrong and not taking into account people change constantly. But love the effort and presentation!

This is a well known hoax going around the web for years. It was originally posted by some Brazilian dude who admitted he just wanted to see if he could get people to believe him.

Not well known

I'm pretty sure that's a cardboard cutout.

So it's not shopped, it's kind of her, but... well it's a cardboard cutout.

Yes! Thank god for a post that isn’t about some impenetrably complicated Trump/Russia/US politics ‘conspiracy’. This sub has become pretty tedious, it’s basically just “political headlines concerning Trump” these days.

They didn't say the photo was supposed to look like they were actually next to each other? Haha. I agree with everything else you said but that photo was to compare the differing looks, not to look like the two were together.

Thank you. This is the material I want on r/conspiracy but lots of this is going off what you said, people change. They want to look younger, they fall to certain pressures and lip synch, etc. Also...

In any case, death by hanging points always signs of Illuminati ritual sacrifice

Want to know why people hang themselves? Because it's an effective way to die.

The ears look the same to me. Not convinced by that, either.

The superorbital is the same, chin same, cheekbones pass for each other and general face shape is not dissimilar.

This is not evidence either for or against, but I don't see where's a lot of differences in those people.

Fans have analyzed this picture and determined that it is not Photoshopped

Lol what a bullshit. Everyone with advanced photoshop skills can make an image like this, give the same proper lights, shadows, and values to make it look real. You can not analyze an image then say "it's not photoshopped".
Also her moles and ears and other facial features changed because she went under plastic surgery just like the rest of the Hollywood whores.
The reason why she allegedly killed herself is varies feom website to website. I was already reading like six variations of this story, really nothing more than urban legend. Paul McCartney on the other hand was replaced for real but there were reasons to do so.

Yeah that's where the post lost me. I can literally replicate the image (and probably make it look better) with the Juxtaposer app on my phone for free. And I have 0 experience with photoshop.

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Mhm. Way to photoshop the original and remove her.

And she's wearing an Elon Musk shirt! So ahead of her time!

Yeah, I really feel like that picture is Avril standing next to a cardboard cut out of herself. Probably photoshopped as well.

I knew I’ve seen this picture before. Thanks.

That's totally a different pic. Same outfit, same practiced expression, different hair position.

It's the same photo. On the one OP showed, you can see her hair had been colored black (photoshopped) to blend in with her shirt.

Ah man, why would someone do that? That's p creepy that someone would decide to do that. (not arguing btw, i can see it a little clearer now you point it out. just saying that someone who made this would have to be super bizarre)

Not sure but we woukd need a photoshop/graphic artist to explain.

I know they do heaps of random stuff with certain colours for different graphics for a variety of reasons. The type of people that do this are the type that know the difference between maroon and magenta.

This girl I know, has a book and when she's designing graphics, she literally inputs the RGB "Red, Green, Blue" color, because she needs specific shades etc.

Uhhhh yes?

http://avril-l.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastupby&cat=0&pid=36246&uid=1#top_display_media

Im upvoting because your post is great, but tbh i'm not buying this. Even Paul is dead story for me is not true. I did enjoy the reading though. And, our voice pitch changes day to day. Its easier to train yourself to reach higher pitches than lower pitches.

And, our voice pitch changes day to day. Its easier to train yourself to reach higher pitches than lower pitches.

Come again?

AND, OUR VOICE PITCH CHANGES DAY TO DAY. IT'S EASIER TO TRAIN YOURSELF TO REACH HIGHER PITCHES THAN LOWER PITCHES.

Yea, it's still bullshit, now with caps.

Our voice does change but in the other direction, from higher pitched to lower (puberty). I've never heard of change in the other direction.

But Avril is a vocalist- could her extensive training not teach her how to reach higher octaves? Genuine question.

Yes - answering as a vocalist, this was the first point I wanted to make about the post

I've had difficulty maintaining my higher range over the years, but I don't train for it. I've worked hard to deepen my voice, and it takes just as much effort. Do our voices lower naturally? Sure, but not by that much. Puberty also wouldn't have been a factor as Avril was likely done by the time she hit mainstream

Also, the lower that I train, the less focused I am on higher notes - I would assume this would work the opposite way, as well. If she's not actively maintaining her lower range and is focused on the higher notes, it'll wear down over time.

Wow, this is really informative. Thank you for the info. :)

Happy to help:) the boot guy you responded to cracked me up. "Never heard of it going in the other direction" like wut. We're talking about singing, not speaking tones - and a girl, ffs! Of course men's voices drop considerably, on average, but girls usually don't change much.

For the record, my old high school teacher was male and could sing higher than most of the girls, as well as match the baratones. He worked hard for that and helped me a lot. Guys are apparently more likely to have wider ranges, though, while girls do struggle to hit lower octaves. For reference, the guy from guns n roses (or acdc, can't remember.. they sound the same to me) can sing 8 fucking octaves. I think guys on average can do about 4 or 5, while girls are usually around 3

Phrasing! Boom! First!

I don’t think her pitch has changed that much actually. It’s complicated goes relatively high. That one song was just cherry picked because she stays in a pretty close lower range.

And a lower range is probably more comfortable for a young musician - close to her natural speaking voice. Vocal training can increase your comfortable singing range for sure.

Not to mention she’s also incredibly emotional while singing which is very hard to do.

Yeah just FYI this is a fun theory and all, but it originated at a site called Avril Esta Morta. It lays out the whole theory, but because it's written in Spanish a lot of people missed the point --- the person who came up with the theory says it's just an experiment to see if they can make a story go viral. So it's fake ... purposely fake. But most people missed that part.

avrilestamorta.blogspot.com.br/

Good summary, but what's the conspiracy? That record companies manufactured an identity to sell albums, concert tickets, and merch. In this case, with a different persona, instead of the real Avril.

Ok. They'd would also have manufactured a fake Avril from the real Avril.

If the real Avril is dead, who controls her likeness and image? Her estate or her record company?

The OP posted saying Avril Lavigne killed herself and was replaced without the mass of people knowing. And you just asked what's the conspiracy? Lmao.

And who says that's a conspiracy?

It could be a completely legal agreement between the record company and her family based on who controlled her publicity rights.

Just because you're stupid doesn't mean everyone else is.

Lol.

You laugh because you have nothing to say. Boring troll

I have been sitting on all this for a while now.

jesus christ lol.

Nice try FBI

That's a stretch.

I can't believe you put this much effort into all of this.

Interesting! I'd like to add a few points to consider and share some thoughts.

• Typically, women gain deeper voices as they age. This is just a biological fact for a majority of women. It doesn't mean much, but it's something to keep in mind.

• Ears can't be surgically altered (the lobe can, but not the cartilage). This was the main piece of evidence in the Paul versus Faul debate, and it was one of the pieces of evidence that proved that "Paul McCartney" was no longer who he was claiming to be. So it's an interesting thing to point out. Evidence for irrefutable Paul versus Faul evidence by well known Italian forensic experts, because I know someone will be interested in it or ask to see a source.

• Birth marks and the like can be edited out in photoshop, and seeing as Avril is a celebrity, this seems more likely. If you can find unedited photos (such as candid fan photos) with missing birth marks and such, it'd strengthen your theory a lot more.

• I do think it's interesting that she can't hit many of the lower notes she used to hit. She always had that edgy vibe and she pulled off a lower, sightly gravelly type of voice effortlessly. Typically people will have a harder time hitting high notes if their voice is naturally lower; I've never heard of anyone with a low voice become so high that they can't hit lower notes anymore. It happened in SUCH a short time too, in about two years total. So none of the usual excuses ("She's not a teen anymore she's in her thirty's!!") explain this adequately. It's odd, but whatever.

All in all, I really like this theory and I really want to believe in it (as morbid as it is). I've researched it in the past though and I didn't find a ton of compelling evidence, and the person who created the theory actually admitted that it was a hoax to prove how gullible people are. I guess you could consider that maybe he was "forced" by Avril's management to say that, but really that'd be a stretch, y'know?

What I do find extremely interesting is the total change in mannerisms, demeanor, speech patterns, tone of voice (much deeper), and personality between her second and third album. There's a huge, noticeable difference. Yeah, people change, I get that. But generally people have core mannerisms that stay with them throughout life, and she seems to have lost all of them. In the interviews when she's been asked about this conspiracy theory, she gets extremely anxious and awkward. It's like she's playing a character or something and she's over-acting. It's hard to explain. If I can manage to dig up any of those interviews, I'll come back and edit this.

All in all, I really like this theory and I really want to believe in it

May I ask you, why do you 'want' to believe in it?

Because when "Boyfriend" came out, it was a huge disappointment. So much of the music my generation grew up got commoditised. Rage Against The Machine became Audioslave. Avril lost the angst. Rap lost its edge and became advertisements for cars, booze and bimbos. Music has lost its soul.

/r/LeWrongGeneration

Ehh I'd say the 00's pop and rap music did trend to the overly materialistic

listen to some k pop.

You're just too caught up in the mainstream. Music is still awesome, you just have to look a little harder to find the good stuff. But trust me, it's out there.

I dont listen to the radio and havent for years. I know there is still good music, but my point is that the pop mass consumer junk is what is being pushed on people.

Very interesting about faul. Thank you for that.

You sound just as nuts as tc and think you need to see somebody.

Anyhow I think nobody can deny that Faul is extremely more talented than Paul.

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i have screenshots that shows drumpf is the lovechild of stalin and hitler though

Even if I personally don't buy this theory (I think the evidence is way too circumstantial for a claim this big), I still applaud you for throwing this together.

Why? Because it's important for as many people as possible to theorize about as many things as possible.

Real conspiracies are out there and the only way you catch them is by casting big nets. So keep on doing you OP.

This is a very compelling post. Not 100% water tight, but great food for thought.

of everything u offered, only the hadwriting is convicing to me. the ears would have been the key evidence but it can be 2 pics of same ear from different angle, an ear is a 3d object and some lines change when u rotate around it. that being said, a thing u could investigate are pics or footage of avril with her family , more exactly the parents . if she is a now a clone and avril suicided , something of those events should transpire on the appearance of her parents, and on the relation ship of the clone with avrils parents.

That first pic is clearly photoshoped. I wonder if you assassinated this Melissa would they replace her to?

That first picture looks like someone who looks like Avril with their arm around a cardboard cutout of Avril....

Fans have analyzed this picture and determined that it is not Photoshopped: http://i.imgur.com/EsEZNYR.jpg

I love these shit posts on r/conspiracy.

That's an obvious photoshop.

I've been around music my entire life and it's hard for me to put it into words, but:. I have this weird thing about my ears where I can pick up on small changes in sounds, especially music. The two shows you linked, one from aol, and the other grandpa dedication do not sound like they're coming from the same voice. Granted technology has advsced like mics and sound equipment. But they honestly do sound like different people. I'll def be going through some old and newer videos of hers tonight.

Great presentation and case, never heard about this before.. thank you

Jesus Christ, who the fuck cares about Avril Lavigne this much? Wow

Money changed her. This is stupid.

This is the conspiracy sub, it's fun to consider stuff like this but not everything is going to be amazingly watertight. If it prompts discussion it is worth it and enjoyable.

Fans have analyzed this picture and determined that it is not Photoshopped

Oh, well, in that case, consider me a Believer!

"Sprinkle some crack on 'em Johnson and let's get outta here."

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No rest for the wicked...

Can anyone elaborate on the theory or Paul McCartney dying in 1966 and being replaced? I've never heard that theory before.

Look into it, there’s so much written about it, there is a documentary called This is Paul. This is my favorite Conspiracy theory by far.

Sounds very complicated with 3 versions of him?

It's one of the silliest conspiracies around. Sure, we just have this other amazingly talented singer, bass player and songwriter, waiting in the wings.

Almost as ridiculous as the whole Laurel Canyon conspiracy.

We did though. William Shepherd from Billy Pepper & The Pepperpots was a famous musician who got his start before The Beatles hit the big time. In fact, he was supposed to tour the USA as well, but it never worked out. And the fact that The Beatles named the album Sargeant Pepper is just too big of a callback to ignore imo.

Don’t even get me started on all the symbolism of the album cover, or what happens when you hold a mirror perpendicular at the mid-point.

or what happens when you hold a mirror perpendicular at the mid-point.

Care to explain?

“perhaps the most imaginative interpretation of an image on the cover of Sgt. Pepper. If you hold a mirror across the middle of the words “LONELY HEARTS” written across the center of the bass drum, you will see “IONEIX HE<>DIE”. When arranged as “I ONE IX HE <> DIE,” this image suggests the date (11-9, or November 9, 1966) that Paul died, as the diamond between the words “HE” and “DIE” points directly at Paul. One problem with this interpretation is that the British write dates as day-month-year rather than the American month-day-year, which would make this date September 11th rather than November 9th. You could read this, then, as “1 ONE 1 X”, meaning that one of the four is gone, and then the “HE DIE” points to Paul as the missing Beatle.”

http://turnmeondeadman.com/paul-is-dead-clues-on-sgt-peppers-lonely-heart-club-band/

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Yeah. It’s fun as fuck to follow this rabbit hole. It’s so bizarre, and immediately easy to dismiss. But there’s so much stuff. It makes you start to wonder.

Agreed! I'm shocked at how much interest there is for it. Still reading now.

He's not that remarkable a musician. Nothing against him or his music, but it wouldn't be difficult at all to replace him with someone equal to him or superior to him in musical ability.

Songwriters of that caliber don't grow on trees. Bass players and singers, sure.

It's funny to me that George was the best muscian in the group.

Lol, waiting in the 'Wings'...

What is laurel canyon

If ur interested here’s Dave McGowan’s essay, long but endlessly fascinating rabbit hole.

Almost as ridiculous as the whole Laurel Canyon conspiracy.

So, you mean, not at all ridiculous and incredibly plausible?

i love these musician conspiracies. when will ppl learn musicians are just nuts

The theory is called "Faul McCartney."

It's totally bullshit and is right up there with Alex Jones is Bill Hicks in stupidity.

I love how proponents of this conspiracy will tend to claim that he didn't make any great music after he "died." These idiots clearly never listened to Ram. Guy still sounds incredible to this day.

this "music" you have linked us to sounds fucking terrible, thanks

Whole album is great, but go right on ahead and blast your beiber and fuck right on off if you disagree.

i’m just gonna leave this here

WOW that was a great read. Amazing compilation

Well fuck me if that isn't somewhat convincing.

Something else that convinced me was listening to “Alex” on Howard stern from a little while back.

imo Howard knows it’s Hicks. he is talking to Alex in a similar manner to how he’d interview “marge schott”; ie setting them up for the punchline, although with Alex it’s less obviously a crank.

Ex-longtime obsessive stern listener I picked up on it immediately when I listened to it with this “theory” in mind. I’m convinced Howard is part of the propaganda arm of some ideology, I’m just not ready to name which one, but they don’t have americans interests in mind. It may be more benign than that, but prob not?

No don't do this to me.

all that for a fucking doppelganger.

That's a fun one.

http://tapnewswire.com/2017/07/former-beatle-ringo-starr-claims-the-real-paul-mccartney-died-in-1966-and-was-replaced-by-look-alike/

Ringo confirms

No, no way man. How does an entire family not say anything? Friends, relations, nobody says anything. I believe it more with Paul maybe but not Avril. I mean think of the new person who comes in....they lose all friends and family as well? Cut them all off? Madness.

"tapnewswire dot com" lol

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Who cares about Avril levin?

Snopes says this is false....=P

Decent theory and evidence here, but why do most conspiracies seem to come down to “this picture looks weird and this clip sounds weird”?

And then those with concrete science are shot down because the pictures don’t look weird enough

I keep trying to run a DNA test on Avril, but every time I get close enough to gain a sample her security beats me senseless.

She definitely would lip sync, especially a little later on when she dropped the punky girl routine when it was more to the persona that she be an anti Britney. Either way, I can contribute this nugget although I have no way of backing it up: Apparently (at least in the early days) she would never perform anywhere without her soundguy. This was because he would do live pitch correction for her. I was a working musician from around 2000-2010 and I had a sound engineer friend who told me this. He told me that gossip like this tends to travel in the "live crew" world. But it wasn't so much about Avril, it was all about how this soundguy was a wizard with an auto tuner. He played it like an instrument almost.

Honestly albums like Let Go and Under My Skin were both very genuine and pretty emotionally centered. Out of nowhere we have Best Damn Thing which is riddled with self-centered and extremely egotistical lyrics. I could never see the same Avril that wrote "losing grip", write "I Don't Have To Try". Even live she seemed so genuine to her music. Not to mention music in Let Go + Losing Grip is riddled with weird/quirky sounds that wouldn't be very accessible

Not to mention music in Let Go + Losing Grip is riddled with weird/quirky sounds that wouldn't be very accessible

what do you mean by that? vocalizations?

I don't know how to explain it exactly. Losing grip just has an interesting instrumentation in the intro that I think is tacky and wouldn't strike well with mainstream crowds compared to a simple guitar riff

This is also the basis for Eminem being dead and having a imposter be him.

I think this is the biggest point in the favour of this conspiracy. The lyrics are incredibly different and don't seem to reflect the person that came before it.

The other explanation might be that fame does actually corrupt absolutely. Everyone who gets big loses their touch with reality and starts writing shitty lyrics.

replaced by a butter golem what a time to be alive

I sing. My voice has changed in 10 years. I can't sing as low or as high now.

THIS post is why I come to this sub ! Interesting !

https://www.snopes.com/avril-lavigne-dead-conspiracy-theory/

You should know how people of the conspiracy reddit feel about snopes.

Yea dude I’m aware. It doesn’t change the fact that the conspiracy has been round forever and this guy is just taking credit for it for karma on reddit. But snopes man. That’s the enemy!

So I'm guessing Dave Chappelle falls into this too?
I dig this posts but don't believe them at all

This is comedy?

Hee ears look exactly the same. Perhaps you are unable to determine that different lighting makes things look different? But all the same features are there, if anything, the photo of the ears is completely damming to your argument.

The handwriting is a clear case of the difference between writing quickly for yourself and wrong something clearly that you plan to photograph and expect others to be able to read.

Shin blemishes are easily photocopied and can disappear with a tan (notice she is tan in one photo and pale in the other).

Her voice? Puberty? Uh Idk if you realize this, but puberty doesn't happen when you're 20... we never heard her voice before puberty and summers often lose range as they age. Completely normal.

I think you should get out more and find a student woman to obsess over. Maybe one that will obsess you back?

but Paul McCartney didn't die, it was all a hoax

Very interesting post! Have definitely heard of the Avril Lavigne double conspiracy, but not in this much detail. My one question for OP is this: wouldn't Avril's boyfriend, Sum 41's lead singer, Deryck Whibley, notice if his girlfriend was replaced by someone else? They had been friends since she was 17, so 2001ish, and reportedly started dating in 2003 when she was 19, and married in 2006. Presumably if Avril had killed herself somewhere around 2003, and the timeline you propose is true, then Deryck knew the real Avril, and married the fake Avril. I'm just not buying that he wouldn't realize his girlfriend was a completely different person a year later. And I don't know why he would play along with a secret that big if he did know, what would the incentive for him be? By the time they got married in 2006, both of their careers were on the decline, they weren't even really A-listers by then. I could see getting blackmailed to keep it a secret, but why get married and stay married for 3 years? It just doesn't add up when you start to analyze her relationships with family and friends in the 2001-2003 time period.

Maybe he was just happy to be out of the friend zone and never actually dated the real one. And the fake one was happy to date him because she idolized the real one and had a crush?

I have no idea on timeframes, just spit balling. This whole thing is silly but interesting. And I'd never heard the McCartney one before today so that was worth it alone. I just don't pay much attention to the celeb world.

Honestly I’m not following at all. 3 years is not a short marriage stint especially in the celebrity world. Also what does her marriage to nickelback dude have to do with anything? If she was replaced in 2003, nickleback has nothing to do with this. Emmy question is based on your timeline Deryck knew both Avril’s was friends with one and married the other, there is no way he didn’t know they were different, so why did he stay silent. Also she did not keep a low profile whatsoever in the mid 2000s look back at all the celebrity gossip mags... I’m sorry but this timeline just doesn’t add up.

This is some quality entertainment. Well done.

I saw her in concert in about 2006 (won free tickets from the radio station). I thought it was interesting that she didn't perform "Ska8ter Boi" saying she's played too much/sick of it, etc. If she had an imposter then, that would be interesting tidbit, although I'm sure they could lip sync it if they couldn't actually sing it.

Nope. Dumb

Brilliant presentation mate. Cheers. Always thought something was up. I was a huge SUM 41 fan, still am really, but weren't her and SUM41's front man Derek married at one point? There's gotta be some weird stuff we can find about him discussing her, or something that connects the dots. They married 2006 but got divorced in 2010. I bet he knows something.

Your timeline is a bit off. Deryck and Avril were friends since 2001. They started dating in 2003 and got married in 2006. There were rumors they were together before 2003 but Deryck also had a brief fling with Paris Hilton in 2003 that could have made things weird between them. If Avril killed herself in 2003, that means Deryck knew the real Avril and then married the fake Avril. It seems so unbelievably unlikely that he wouldn't notice any difference between her in 2001-2002 and then in 2003.

Exactly my point. He would have had to know what was going on. Everything you said was dead on. I wonder what he would say about it today. Clearly he had to have known. If my fiance' was someone else, even if that person looked like her, I would know immediately. So that was what I was trying to say, he had knowledge she was gone and went along with the hoax it looks like.

This is retarded

This was a fun read. You should get higher rez pictures next time if you can and putting them all in one imgur album would be helpful for mobile. Quality post

I'm not even gonna click on thi...

Im just curious what purpose this would serve? Seems like something that would take a lof of work for not apparent reason.

Maybe the real singer was an initiate and knew some secrets and she was ready to spill the beans.

I guess. Still seems far fetched to me.

If they had a hit album, and she was at the very beginning of her career, I can see the justification for it tbh. A hit debut album is more than just a collection of songs, it's pretty much the Big Bang for a brand new pop career. One that could earn money for decades if handled properly. I can see why they would choose to make a farce continue if she died so early on when there was so much $$$$ to be made in the future.

I guess, but I cant see it being that much money. She is big, but not like beiber big or anything.

sorry to break it to you, my dude... but that is the same ear in both pics

I dunno if I buy it, and some of the evidence is pretty sketchy, but at least this is a fun one.

"Fans have analyzed this picture and determined that it is not Photoshopped." Thanks for the laugh.

Yeah, "My grandma says it looks real."

you got my vote

Compelling evidence and new theory for me. I think it's all plausible, as I've come across similar theories for Paul, Eminem and Stephen Hawking. Question on the ear image- the comment in it mentions that the illuminati have to tell us what they're doing for karmic purposes. I see them dropping hints to the truth all the time but it's cloaked in disinformation. Do you have any links about this practice and the reasoning behind it? As a spiritual person, I find it hard to believe that mass deceit is able to escape the karmic wheel. Thank you.

The hints might be efforts to show the truth in a concealed way, because some people might want to shine the truth but they are unable to do it directly or in a no concealed manner.

I'm pretty sure the non shopped pic is her next to a cardboard cut out of herself - vaguely remember the pic from nme or kerrang mags

I appreciate the effort, but those points are really weak to think that she killed herself to hide...if you want to be taken seriously, delve into the family life. Those ears looked really similar and just like they had grown, you only mentioned that she switched her music up 5 years after she allegedly died, and that photo that you say "fans analyzed this and say it's not shopped" is completely photoshopped...idk man. You have to go deeper if you want this to be a real conspiracy. I'd say starting with family background on both girls is the way to start, but I doubt that'll lead anywhere.

https://www.snopes.com/avril-lavigne-dead-conspiracy-theory/

You know the first thing that happens when you click on that is that is says "false", right?

That’s exactly my point. This dude is pretending like he thought this all up today and it’s fake and been floating around for ages.

Ohhhhhh my bad...I thought you were posting it to prove that it's true haha

Haha no worries! I should’ve given it context

And what's with Lady Gaga?... she seems like an entirely different person. It's not really a big conspiracy though. Entertainers are selling a fictionalized image, replacing them with a body double doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

It matters because then you don't know how much widespread is the practice of replacing people with doubles.

Why, what have you heard about Gaga? I stopped keeping track of her after that terrible Applause song tbh.

Trippy theory

You are fucking insane and frankly think you need to see somebody.

I second this. OP needs some help.

Maybe your closed mind needs to go to a sub that doesnt allow for thinking and only follows the official story.

I'm not close minded at all. This is just completely nuts and only a complete idiot will believe this.

Im glad youre the authority on that. Were done here, close the thread.

Well what are you waiting for?

Youre not the authority of what can and cannot be posted here? Huh neat development.

How the hell can I close the thread when I didn't make it and not a mod? Magic? Did I say I had authority? Only someone with really bad mental health issues would believe this shit.

Sounds like you need some help also.

Huh youre not? You seemed to speak like you were in charge of what should be posted here like you had that authority.

Ok you very clearly need help. No I didn't speak like I'm in charge of what should be posted here. This is just batshit insane and anybody who believes this shit has a serious serious screw loose.

Removed. Rule 4.

Just by looking at her tshirt sleeve in pic 1, I can tell you unequivocally that the image is not natural.

Well this simple enough. Avril Ramona Lavigne - Born 09/27/84 - She recorded that album in Los Angeles - United Recording 6050 Sunset Blvd, Hollywood, CA 90028. Realeased May 19th, 2004. She spent her time between that studio and the Malibu studio of Raine Maida, Don Gilmore, and Butch Walker. Who helped co-write, and produce that album to completion. A coroner check of deaths during the 2003-2004 years show nothing, and her hometown of Belleville, Canada. For any insurances to pay off for the artist, or their backers, there must be a death certificate. There is also another check that can be made in insurance indexes, and nothing is found.

She is alive, and nothing you listed in your stuff up there is jot out of the norm for a signed artist to go through. She is not Michael Jackson level popular, and her career has not been the greatest in the later years.

You also know that the Paul McCartney thing is not real as well I hope.

Also...the earth is not flat.

Nice try though.

She spent her time between that studio and the Malibu studio of Raine Maida, Don Gilmore, and Butch Walker. Who helped co-write, and produce that album to completion

That's cool, I didn't know Raine Maida (Our Lady Peace) and Butch Walker owned a studio together. They're both awesome. Also, I knew Butch worked on her early albums but I didn't know Raine was involved at all.

I read this whole thing. And for a moment you had me. Glad this wasn't a political post. Enjoyed it

This is why I come to conspiracy sites. I'm not quite sure I believe it (honestly, I don't really care either way) - but I LOVE reading all about it!

I have a friend who was diagnosed schizophrenic for believing his father had been replaced by someone else. I'm not saying this to diminish op but to warn people about the possibility of getting labeled by a psychiatrist. That label is not nice at all. But I concede that cloning or replacing with a double might exist.

Paul is Dead, Said Fred

This is watertight

I'm upvoting for your change of pace in this sub. You've clearly put alot of time into this and for that I give you kudos. I personally think the whole pop genre is composed of soulless interchangeable robots so no big surprise here for me but still well done

And I upvoted the OP and you for saying this. This is what I expected from this sub... conspiracy with links to at least some sort of evidence.

It's nice and refreshing isn't it? I mean other than the sinister corporate undertones

I here you, but many US corporations are sinister. Electronic corporations have created the means of ultimate spying. Is it used? Probably. If we learned anything from Edward Snowden, it's if the means are available, you must assume it's being used, right?

Media corporations attempting to steer humanity down a particular path using non-authentic experiences that they've created to replace your own from real people.

What would the point of this be, though? She hasn't been a relevant cultural force since 2007 or so. Even with the "Paul McCartney died in 1966" rumor, you have reasons why he'd be replaced: the Beatles were extremely lucrative, had an enormous amount of cultural cachet with which they could influence the youth, etc.

Similar reasoning can be employed to defend "Tupac faked his own death" or "Bob Dylan was replaced," etc.

What would the point of replacing Avril Lavigne? Who gains from that?

Interesting; admittedly, I should've read through your post more thoroughly first. I always default to "why would they go to the trouble of replacing a manufactured pop star, who are generally disposable and whose careers have limited shelf live?" in response to the argument that she was replaced, but I will say that you wrote this extremely well, and did a tremendous job of assembling your evidence in a digestible and organized fashion. It's probably the most persuasive case I've seen to date, even if I remain unconvinced.

They replaced her in 2003/2004

allegedly. you forgot that part.

Paul McCartney wasn’t replaced.

His style and level of talent can’t be replicated.

Even the fake Beatles bands don’t get close.

Pfft. John was better. Granted, he wasn't as involved as Paul was but I wouldn't say "can't be replicated". Anybody can be replaced. Fans would buy regardless.

Fuck that. John was a piece of shit person and was not better than Paul at anything. I'm not going Paul is better because that is subjective but John is for sure not.

This is why we can’t have nice things. (conspiracies) this is absurd as the mainstream media putting it out there that (all) conspiracy theorist believe Jon Bonet Ramsey is Katy Parry.

Here's the original pic of the "totally not photoshopped" pic

kek let's move on

I've determined this is the photoshopped image

tHANK YOU

I haven't done much looking into the rest of your post, or anything else, but that very first picture ( http://i.imgur.com/EsEZNYR.jpg ) is quite clearly photoshopped. Anyone that has spent any time working in photoshop, or as a professional photographer can see it at a glance.

The rest of your evidence may very well be sound. That image, however, is not at all 'evidence'.

The biggest clue is somehow along the way, ‘Avril’ learned how to properly apply makeup. (g)

Seriously, nice write-up making your case. I know some AL music (most everyone does I would guess) but other than that have never heard of any of this. I appreciate how you put out your evidence of conspiracy and you bring it to us.

As noted by others, I appreciate a non-political, non-end-of-the-world-they’re-controlling-us-all conspiracy and for that alone I’ll take some time to look at all the links and at least stick a big toe in the rabbit hole.

Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated?

has anyone done one of these on morrisons "death"? i feel like hes definitely the kind of guy to fake his own death. havent seen any collective conspiracy thread on the lizard king!

Supposedly, Jim Morrison is now Rush Limbaugh. I can't really see the resemblance, but what do I know really?

lolwat.???? i need to see this conspiracy thread. i cant believe no long rambling posts have been done on his weird death

I'm convinced. But i'm also convinced McCartney is dead. Based on the photoanalysis of the eyes/mouth.

Damn that's creepy.

lol @ thinking that pic isn't photoshopped.

What a dumbass

That first photo is so obviously a photoshop it is insane. Fuggin lulz.

Ok, that first photo is DEFINITELY PHOTOSHOPPED. I am experienced with photoshop, so I am the source. A BOGUS THEORY INDEED.

This is why people laugh at conspiracy theorists

It’s all fun and games and refreshing from the political posts until someone tries to attack her like with the pizza place with a non-existent basement.

I get that you think people should mock anybody who believes in things like this. I don’t see conspiracy theories in quite the same way though.

Like I think people like David Icke are really the only people who understand how to use the internet to tell stories. It’s kinds of like they use existing material, whether that’s books, real locations, photographs etc and create a new narrative that fits over the existing world, kind of like a primitive augmented reality.

In Don Quixote, the character thought he was a knight because he read romance fiction and so saw a windmill as being a giant knight wielding a sword. At uni I studied an artist called Janet Cardiff who did audio walks where she overlaid a story over the existing location.

The reason that conspiracy theories are popular is because they’re the only people who are creating anything interesting in terms of a narrative that encompasses all media, real life and real locations.

It’s creative to take some strands and graft a narrative over existing material. There are some people who believe in it wholeheartedly and some who find the ideas interesting. These are different from the more plausible theories of an alternate history that hasn’t been widely written about.

In terms of political conspiracies, is it absurd to think the people with money want to introduce policies to help keep their money and power? There’s enough written in their own books that say they believe they are superior minds and so should craft the way forward for the masses as the masses can be easily controlled. You can read papers on Google Scholar that are pretty upfront (once you get passed the academic jargon) on what the elites plan to introduce in the next 20-30 years. You can either choose to believe it’s nonsense or believe that the think tanks are genuine

Do you believe in any conspiracy theories?

Celebrity clones is a possibility, but I don't put much stock in the "Faul McCartney" theory. McCartney's song-writing is distinct, and the same style and craft can be heard even on his weaker solo albums. Their music became more complex, reflecting the other bands at the times, and the influence of psychedelics.

However, there is heavy Occult and Intelligence leanings in the Music industry since at least the days of the Laurel Canyon scene. The real secret is that these entertainment puppets are under trauma-based mind control and have multiple personalities, as seen in Britney Spears, Katy Perry, etc. The photo of two Avrils looks like it could easily be photo-shopped, since there doesn't seem to be any others.

Major artists see an increase in sales of their albums when they die. If it's all about money, they would have profited from her death more.

I'm not sure that's true. Tragedies sell and there is no way you can predict if an artist will be successful in the future. Besides, the entertainment industry is just like any other. They make investments in their artists and since tragedy sells, she would have made the investment worthy. Engaging in a conspiracy to replace a flash in the pan popstar would require a ton of investment and likely isn't worth the effort. She hasn't made a blip since what her second album?

The biggest early deaths in music had at least four albums. Hendrix had 4 and another 4 worth of content releases after he died, joplin had four, nirvana had 9. They all see perpetual radio play earning their record label plenty of money. One album isnt enough to secure that kind of perpetual radio play, and depending on how much the label had spent on her already replacement would fit pretty well as a way they would be able to get their investment back.

She could've had her vocal chords scraped. A friend of mine's voice changed out of nowhere very drastically without any medical intervention. He still has the same facial features and same mouth structure too.

That's 100% Photoshopped.

Your evidence is fairly terrible. Ill go over 2 that stood out the most.

A picture that fans and not a credible organization have determined that it wasn't photoshopped? That's conjecture. Not hard evidence. You don't even link where you got this opinion. So it's really just your opinion of an opinion.

Physical imperfections are constantly being removed by the rich and famous have you not seen E!? A change in look doesn't equate to a different person. Hollywood as a place is obsessed with plastic surgery. We have tv shows both reality TV and fictional about this phenomenon. Michael Jackson anyone?

Also you dilute your argument when you include other actors who are dead by similar (and I use that word loosely) circumstances but are very clearly dead and not being cloned (Robin williams). As that is your entire premise it undermines everything you wrote.

The ears look the same, just at a slightly different angle, but the unique curves are identical. The handwriting looks the same to me; she was just trying to write neatly in the latter shot, but you can examine the way the individual letters were written and see they were done in exactly the same style.

I bet she did get work done on her skin, as many women do it especially as they get older (and even moreso when their career depends on it).

ROFL this is why they call us crazy

This kinda stuff is why I come here. Well done.

COINTELPRO'ED

iwanttobelieve

Let's get an in-depth interview with Sum 41, shall we?

Do one on Paul please lol.

All of your points have answers. Nothing really blew me away. Pretty sure Avril didn't kill herself. She's married to Chad still.

Why’d ya hafta go and make things so complicated??????

this is better than the whole mcdonalds putting human meat in their meat supply from dead people the cia, fbi , and nsa get rid of.

The ears look the same to me and honestly this was presented very very well, good job op. You're entitled to your beliefs but I just don't buy this one. I think it's still the same person

I concur, just different light and shadows, nothing obvious.

Same goes for the handwriting. "i'm" looks identical. The photos are just at different angles.

This was a well written post and I just hate to hurt ops feelings because we all believe what we believe, but yeah none of the evidence he presented is sound it makes sense , I'm sorry to say.

It's well written and has a lot of research. But yeah, none of this is believable to me.

This post smells of a diversionary post that will garner MSM attention (this post is deliberately getting botted to the top) and now have everyone speculating if not pop star is still alive or not, this is a "is the dress black and blue or white and gold" type story that will run for a week or two until some major event passes (probably obama getting caught in FBI text scandal).

Mark my words this is exactly what this post will do. BuzzFeed will probably pick this up, then BusinessInsider the HuffPost then Snopes, then facebook viral then TMZ etc etc etc. Heck, even the OP might get some credit and maybe mentioned on MSM for high many years of dedication to his theory! Such Wow. This game has been played out many times before. I can see right through it. Lame attempt at diversion tactics.

Stopped at <was fed to the Avril fanbase from the illuminati

You didn't mention Russia, Trump, or anything reguarding politics, have a thought out idea with motive, the ability to have it pulled off, and a bit of proof.

Have a fucking upvote you awesome dude you.

I couldn't find a good link (like this post) regarding Paul McCartney's death and impostor: can someone help me out?

There’s more reaching on those videos than a nursing home with greased floors.

Body double seems more likely. If I were rich and could send a body double on stage to lipsync while I went on vacation that would be pretty sweet. I don't know if I could resist doing it if I could get away with it.

Now this is why I come to this sub.

Going to be blunt here:

Avril lavigne was a skinny girl. Like, very thin.

Anyone who is up to date on the fappening (c:) will remember avril was available, she was REALLY hot, like, there was one were she is this yellow/gold bikini and she is just literally flawless.

Although, most celebrities and popstars etc will focus on their health when they can, she seemed structurally different than the avril lavigne that I saw growing up.

This is why I subscribe to this sub. Fabulous post. +1

Why though?!

It would be easier to make another cookie cutter pop star than convince a whole industry and two people's family, friends and extended network of contacts that one person is now someone else.

And also while big in her time, she has never exactly been irreplaceable for the music industry.

I upvoted cause this was presented perfectly and you bring up so many valid points. I don't have any comments to disregard or contradict any points as I only knew her for songs like skater boy and complicated... I wasn't some die hard fan or anything. I only have some questions as an outsider looking into a window of a strangers house.

1. why didn't her family say anything? Like if their daughter committed suicide, then wouldn't her family call out the imposter?

2. I have a good idea of the Illuminati... But why replace a popstar or rock star that died? If you wanted the perfect entertainment slave to brainwash the viewers or to brainwash them, then you can get any other person. That's what they do? Pump out the garbage music produced by money hungry pop stars...

I'd really love to know more about this. :)

Ah, hahahaha

This is the most absurd thing I've seen in this subreddit in almost 10 years

Now this is the tin foil wearing hat kind of stuff I love in this sub.

Yeah, me too.. but this post is shit.

I'm here for this quality content

There's a conspiracy about every single dead celebrity that they are actually alive and about every alive celebrity that they are dead and replaced with a doppelgänger.

Would Michael Hutchence be considered a ritual sacrifice along with Brandon Lee and Heath ledger

The guy in Brazil who started this rumor actually admitted it was a thought experiment to see what he could get people to fall for if there was a “real website” with “real” testimonies and “evidence” - BUT I do believe in the Effect and have had at least 10 personal changes occur in my timeline that I or others cannot explain!

Can I some pot from you OP?

The showstopper for me is the Original had a family and life. When she became a pop star, it was probably the biggest news in her hometown.

If she died and people knew, then the whole town would be vocal about the swap. Thier friend died, it's the biggest news, bit there is a fake girl pretending? It's be all over the news.

If she died and it was a secret, sure the family could be paid off. But are they supposed to pretend she is still alive? What about at weddings and birthdays?

Point is, these are real people with real lives, who a lot of people know. Doesn't seem practical. Better, the value of an artists works skyrockets when they die, so that would be a smarter payday, right? Interesting post and well-written though!

Claiming somebody was replaced with an imposter pretty much just makes you look like a lunatic though.

I don't think so. People do all kinds of schemes to make or save money. It's not unreasonable for me to imagine a talent manager, if she heard about it first, to come up with a plan. I mean millions of dollars in future earnings are at stake.

Remember, the family will make tons of money after the death, but for the manager, that's the end of thier meal ticket. People have done far crazier things for far, far less money.

These people created an entirely fake persona: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/14718/

It was a woman in a wig, talking through an assistant, pretending to be a man.

They got book deals and a movie deal out of it. They made a lot of money and celebrity friends. I would not be surprised if OP's theory is true.

Moving away and breaking off with your friends is a good cover.

Parents and relatives can be paid off to shut up.

Its quite simple.

Mannnnn. I'm just gonna take this as fact. If they didn't clone and replace her, they fucking brainwashed her, at the least.

I have always hated the "new" Avril. Yeah 10+ years ago, so not exactly new, but still. Even if she isn't, it's like she's a completely different person.

Lol dude. I know her younger sister..

If this was true, I still wouldn't care

You might have a case if Avril Lavigne was someone people even thought about anymore.

I don't think Avril has been replaced BUT i'm upvoting this because I love these types of conspiracies! Keep up the good work :)

The kicker for me was a young Avril had acne, and the older one doesn't. Proof positive!

The older avril wears alot more makeup

I know right? My young self had acne, then it mysteriously vanished years later. Clearly I am fraud.

Big upvote for thoroughness. I had entirely forgotten about AL until I saw this post.

I'm not with you on this but it's funny stuff so thanks.

Utter fucking bullshit.

I would say you wasted far too much of your life on this crap, but I kind of doubt you have a life.

Thou art a dickhead.

Wow.

Arent celebreties worth more when they are dead?

Well presented, but of course utterly ridiculous.

I still cannot listen to the beatles to this day. I finally became convinced a coupla years ago. I still feel sick every time i think of it.

Rest easy friend cuz it ain't true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo_DMGc2v5o

You are convinced it's not true? But how do you get around the forensics, those Italian scientists who set out to prove new Paul WAS in fact the same person as old Paul but then became convinced they were 2 diff people w 2 diff skulls, teeth, ears, eye color and height? As much as i did NOT want to believe them...that's what convinced me in the end.

Yes I am convinced it's false. There is no difference in his voice that couldn't be attributed up to stylistic choices or a heavy smoker ageing. His songwriting talent could not have been replicated. Lennon wasn't talented enough (IMO) to fill the gaps and his style was too different from Paul's. If Lennon did fill the gaps, does he seem like the kind of guy that would want to share credit with an impostor of his dead friend? George Harrison had been basically begging to get more songs on the records at that point. Would he have been OK with an impostor who didn't do any of the legwork to make them famous get more songs on a record than him? The Beatles were satisfied to go their separate ways four years after his supposed death. Why go through all that effort for just 4 more years together? Paul's death would have made them SO MUCH MONEY and at that point the band was exhausted and George and John were feeling strained by the pressures of working with each other as it is.

The photos aren't the least bit convincing because perspectives can answer for all of the supposed differences. Look at this picture of Paul in 1964 compared to more recently. https://thoseconspiracyguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/paul-is-dead-title.jpg

These aren't the same man? I simply don't believe the Beatles would have been able to successfully find a songwriter who arguably was more talented than Paul, looked exactly like him, and who would be willing to live as someone else (in other words get no credit for themselves) for 5 decades of music and success after Paul's supposed death.

I just posted a somewhat lengthy reply but i think i posted it as an original comment rather than as a reply. 2nd time today.

Watched video. Thanks. I ASSUMED (when you assume you make an ASS out of U M E) the video would be pro ONE Paul and not 2 diff ones. But listening to the song with an open heart you can FEEL that if it's by the 2nd new paul it is a plaintive cry, a beautiful hymn to FREEDOM which he traded to be new Paul. Thank you. I almost cried. I think what ultimately convinced me really was the new Paul's autobiography Billy's Back. Expensive but totally worth the read. It's his story disguised as fiction. Absolutely fascinating and rang true for the most part. Thank you again.

If that was a plaintive cry by someone who yearned for freedom, why would he keep the charade going for another 50 years?

fuck this. I have had OP tagged for months as a bullshit artist.

this kind of post makes this subreddit look fucking ridiculous.

a link to OP's submission is currently one of the top TMOR posts.

I swear this guy posts shit and then reposts it to TMOR.

Fuck off OP.

Yeah. This sub needs to stay focused on REAL shit, like pizzagate, right? Try'na take ourselves seriously up in this bitch.

that's hilarious... I've had you tagged for a while now... and here you are again bringing up pedogate lol.

do you ever get tired of defending pedophiles?

you don't do you?

nice discussion sliding attempt.

I've had you tagged for a while now...

No you fucking haven't. My long-form birth certificate clearly indicates that i wasn't born yesterday, but in fact, the day before.

God damned right I have.

I'd tell you exactly what I've had you tagged with... but it's against the rules ;)

What a liar you are.

I'm not lying. I legit don't believe you.

who gives a shit what you believe?

shit is true. you are the worst.

r/politics is your fucking home. so... go home.

Oh now I'm convinced I've "been tagged". Not like you could just look at my recent comment history to know that.

I'm not into defending pedos as a generalized pastime. Roy Moore and much of the Catholic church can go fuck 'emselves. I only like the ones that make good pizza and have quantum basements.

LOL whatever helps you sleep at night dude.

I'm thinking this isn't the only thing you lie to yourself about.

I'll see you around. Keep up the good work lol.

A proper workout and maybe a little pot help me sleep at night.

And i tell myself 5'8" isn't short.

hmm... fair enough.

Removed. Rule 10

I had a sneaking suspicion something fishy was up with this truly terrible post somehow getting nearly 3000 up-votes. It was posted right around 5-6 a.m. EST, which makes me wonder if it was meant to be a preemptive distraction to news that was anticipated to break today.

Fantastic post. Can't wait to dive into this

thank you. for keeping conspiracy alive. this board is garbage now this post was a diamond

This is why I'm subscribed to r/conspiracy

This the kinda bullshit that delegitimizes important conspiracy topics. But, entertaining none the less

I met her when she first came out at an after party. She was blitz drunk. She's really short but a close talker so it was like she was yelling up my nose.

Her voice has gotten higher over the years. Never heard of puberty causing a person's voice to turn higher than before.

2002: https://youtu.be/2axL4T3R2ak?t=56

2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YobX6aQFahU (Even >when she attempts to hit the low notes she can't get her voice to >go as deep as "she" was able to when she was a teenager)

The human voice fluctuates a lot. You also can't compare a live recording to a previous studio recording. This isn't evidence at all.

Hey! hey! you! you! I don't like your conspiracy! Yeah yeah I think you need a new one!

Shit like this is why NO ONE takes any conspiracy theorist seriously. That and all of your theories are bullshit

Shit like this is why NO ONE takes any conspiracy theorist seriously. That and all of your theories are bullshit

solid gold evidence hdu

You’re right ears are like fingerprints, that’s why it’s the same girl, that picture of the ears are super similar, just a slight angle change. Also she has a uniquely shaped nose which matches the “other girl” exactly.

I usually come to /r/conspiracy for laughs, today you fulfilled this. Thankyou.

great post. forgot she even existed. finger prints aren't as unique as you think they are tho. I think there's a netflix doc on forensics that goes into it.

This is stupid.

Nah Man...this is why this sub exists!

Overall pretty convincing, but my voice got higher as I aged.

Almost everyone's does. Elderly people usually speak in a higher register than they spoke in their 20s or 30s.

But why?

because this subreddit needs content and Avril took the opportunity of sacrificing herself for the sake of our entertainment.

I think this is a reach..but man do I love it. And am definitely intrigued by it all.

Paul McCartney is dead. I was amused until you presented this as fact. I'm dying laughing over here.

Paul McCartney is dead. I was amused until you presented this as fact. I'm dying laughing over here.

she would never lip-sync.

she also wouldn't pose as a goth skater girl for her persona to sell albums.

did you know her? Were you guys like BFFs back in the day? Why the hell would someone have to recreate a nobody like Avril Lavigne? I mean the girl can sing but I dont' get why you think this is even the smallest bit logical. If the music biz wanted to recreate someone, wouldn't they do to someone like Cobain? This is so laughable.

did you know her? Were you guys like BFFs back in the day? Why the hell would someone have to recreate a nobody like Avril Lavigne? I mean the girl can sing but I dont' get why you think this is even the smallest bit logical. If the music biz wanted to recreate someone, wouldn't they do to someone like Cobain? This is so laughable.

my comment was entirely sarcastic, bruh

I'll just stand here all red faced and what not.

Queen vowed to never use synthesizers as well, until they did. Long-held convictions have a quality of suddenly becoming very fluid when there's money involved.

Sorry, but those ears are exact matches. The only difference is the angle of the camera.

This was an interesting read. Completely ridiculous, but interesting

Nah....I think you underestimate what science can do these days from skin care to treatments. Also genetics helps a lot. I'm 42 and look like I haven't aged much either. https://i.imgur.com/AZ0146L.jpg And all the appearance changes you've pointed out mean nothing. This picture https://i.imgur.com/0X3Cr1a.jpg and the one above were taken days apart, but thanks to lighting, a wig and makeup I look like two different people.

You look old.

Thanks!

This is exactly what I subscribe to this sub for.

Thank you for posting this. I used to be a huge Avril Lavigne fan as a kid. This is 100% not her IMO. I always thought something was off when that album came out and I thought wow she looks so different. Then I heard about this conspiracy theory a few months ago and it all made sense. That album was just not "her" and it's obvious to me.

For people who didn't listen to her music before the change, I can see how it wouldn't be as obvious and how you would need to see more proof to believe it. The original Avril wouldn't dress or act like this, she had more of a goth/skater boy style and was more emotional in her music.

Agreed. I never heard of this conspiracy before now but used to be a fan back in the day. I always wondered why she went to shit after 2003. Now it all makes sense that she died though this isn't the only explanation.

Perhaps it is a case of the Mandela effect, this is Avril Lavigne but from a parallel universe.

Well, the old mod that wanted this to go crazy conspiracy again just got his wish.

I don't know if I believe it, but this is great stuff. Don't stop digging! I want to read more!

WOO this is why I’m subscribed!

I don’t really buy it, but still.

So everyone saying this is a good post isn't a conspiracy regular right? This has to be a shill post upvoted to discredit this sub even more?

The first pic is clearly photoshopped, and another user posted the original. Second those ears are exactly the same, they are just older and less flush, ears typically change tone do with temperature or even medical reasons.

Second the moles/ is a a low res photo that only highlights 3 small blemishes that disappeared. One type of freckle appears when the skin is exposed to sun in summer, and this type fades during winter months. You should see my skin in the summer vs the winter.

Third, people's skin breaks out, specially when they are younger and typically acne subsides or goes away into adulthood.

Forth, Are you for real comparing marker hand writing to 4 words of pen writing? The damn R in Chorus is clearly the same. I have changing handwriting as well, and you need a lot of words to compare.

Fuck this post is incredibly stupid as fuck. But that's why it's being upvoted, got to discredit this sub.

Thanks for the chuckle bud.

She had zits because she was a kid when her career started. Zits go away.

She likely appears ageless now thanks to advancements in skin care. Plenty of women these days, both celebrity and non-celebrity, also have that ageless look.

Women's singing voices can get higher as the years go on. My voice certainly has.

While interesting. I remember her acne treatment commercial

I forgot where I saw it but after the article claiming that Paul died, someone from the recording studio called him while he was sleeping and asked him if he was alright and told him about the magazine article. McCartney simply responded, “I’m not dead. Fuck off.” and hung up.

Paul is not dead.

Ummmm...the "IM" in the old writing matches the "IM" in the new writing. Same with the lowercase r's...pretty much the same.

Even if she was, who cares? She sucked before and sucks now. The only reason she ever got any airtime is because of our bullshit "Canadian content" laws in Canadian radio.

Napanee sucks too. But its got a home depot so there's that.

The good Avril is in the black lodge.

Look into Donald Marshall and Aug Tellez. So many clones!

Dude. I so believe you.

illuminati ritual sacrifice? What's that?

Hahahahahahahahhahaha I lol'd

It's the same person. This kind of thing is why conspiracy theorists are looked at as crazy by many.

If she was a clone, their ears would be identical.

This is the type of crazy I come here for

YES

Elon!

Hahaha

lmfao this sub is insane

Your work seems well done!

As an amateur singer, I do have one thing to say: one's vocal range can change over the course of one's life, either going higher or lower, and not just due to puberty. Personally, my voice has increased in the higher ranges but lost some in the lower. I am only an amateur voice student and I also don't know much in the ways of scientific research on this topic, so what I shared is just from personal experience, hearsay, and instruction from my professional teachers.

Although I don't believe this theory, in the case where it is true, wouldn't it be more appropriate that after all the incidents where she found incredible pressure from the public she just decided to phase herself out of the scene. Then her record label needing and trying to profit off of the situation got a double while the real her lived out her life.

Idk both sound far fetched to me but I think her commiting suicide is less likely, only because her family would speak out against it, whereas with this they might not as long as they know she's safe.

Also what relevance would the illuminati even hold here, why would a bunch of incredibly rich and powerful people care about some pop singer, makes more sense if it was her recording label and not the illuminati.

The vocal range issue is definitely not convincing. Singers can increase their range with training and practice, but that range is never going to go beyond what the singer can naturally do. I can sing a really high pitch, but it's difficult to do, and the timbre is really terrible and unpleasant. Training would make it so that I could hit that high note more easily, consistently, and with better clarity but I wouldn't be able to extend beyond what's natural. She likely trained after becoming famous to reach the high end of her range and its very possible that the low end of her range was already developed and practiced and couldn't naturally be brought lower. Also, her style became more pop-oriented, which a lot of times prefers high-pitched singing rather than low. The Paul McCartney conspiracy is a total fraud. Don't use that as a basis for a new conspiracy it will gain no traction that way.

Stopped reading after the “Paul is Dead” nonsense.

Oh man, this theory has been going around for sooo long, I love it! hahah Not sure what to think about it though...

I wish I cared.

She might have also gone through the rituals and let the Vrill inside of her soul. That could explain the changes. She may have also gone through electro-shock therapy which created multiple personalities.

I believe in clones, but we should consider the more common alternative. From what I understand clones are saved only for the most important people.

now, someone needs to do this for the guy that replaced eminem.

The fact that this has so many upvotes worry me much more than anything the government's of the world are doing, critical thinking is a skill that I assumed most everyone possessed. . . . This sub and this post are convincing me otherwise

Have you ever stumbled across this OP? A Brazilian fanpage made this post back in 2011. You'll have to google translate it from Portugese.

http://avrilestamorta.blogspot.ca/2011/05/blog-post.html?m=1

That's the origin of this whole thing; it's a fake story, meant to show how fake stories spread on the Internet: https://www.snopes.com/avril-lavigne-dead-conspiracy-theory/

Handwriting looks the same.

What a load of bullshit

Ahhhh so well presented but such a waste of time, use your efforts on a real conspiracy, all of the points raised are just not there, there's nothing in this.

I'm not an handwriting expert by any means, but the word "Chorus" is practically the same in the two images "CHORUS" at the bottom of http://i.imgur.com/dtQoVFG.jpg and "CHORUS" in http://i.imgur.com/r02pls7.jpg

$$$$. He was really really struggling as a musician. Fame. Having your music actually go somewhere. Look...i am not arguing that it's him or not him. I want to believe it's the old paul. I became obsessed w it for awhile until i could satisfy my curiosity. And i didn't like the answer i found. I still hope i am wrong, my friend! Fellow Paul lover!

In 7th grade back in 1982, we had a substitute teacher who arrived with Beatles album covers and gave a presentation about how Paul McCartney had died and had been replaced. That was the first time I was exposed to a conspiracy theory. I remember that the entire class loved it. Telling friends about this teacher, I learned that he was doing this presentation in every class he subbed for.

Big if true

I give you credit for your research and presentation but we glorify when celebrities die, especially when their in their prime. That's how they become legends like Jimmy Hendrix or Janise Joplin so why wouldn't her team take the glory

If you read everything i did...you may change your mind. This was an MI5 operation...john George and ringo went along w it, still traumatized over Paul's death. Look, i am NOT here to convince you, or anyone. I would still like to believe the old paul is the same paul. But if you search obsessively over a year or 2 like i did...and read and watched EVERYTHING you could get your hands on...well the forensics, in my opinion, cannot be argued with. And a voice expert concluded there were 3 pauls, original, the one now, and an interim. And you can do a LOT with photos and audio.

Here's the bottom line. I hate HRC with a passion. Never met the woman. She could be CGI for all i know. Does the hatred hurt me? Probably. I would do well to get over it.

In the same way it makes no diff in the overall scheme of things to believe either way about paul. Either way, it's either him or it's not and it doesn't, or shouldn't affect your life unless you let it. Like i did. Husband thinks I'm nuts. He may have a point. A part of me wishes i had never delved into all this stuff and still believed old paul is same paul as now.

This was meant to be a reply not an original comment! Did it again. Gotta be more careful, kids.. (Grandma here)

A for effort and non-Clinton story :)

I hadn’t even heard the theory of Paul McCartney so this seems kinda random. But an interesting idea. I liked her first album but not much of a fan after that.

Why is that GIANT BIRD hanging out with the most whiney "punk" princess?

Damn you care a LOT about Avril Lavine

20$ Britney Spears is OP

Here's a good question: who gives a crap about Avril Lavine?

Ever followed up on the miley cirus conspiracy?

Today on reddit I ran into one of “those” guys who end up trying to kill celebrities they obsess over...

I’m just hear for the Napanee shout-outs

Damn....scrolling through /r/all and landed in /r/wasteoftime. This is some of the dumbest shit I've read recently, except perhaps for all the flat Earth bullshit going around now. I won't even bother going through all the things wrong with this, but I will comment on the ears. You post pictures of fucking identical ears seen in different light from different angles with a caption that says they're different. They are, in fact, the same damn ear.

So she killed herself and was replaced to capitalize on the success of her shortened career? Or she was groomed from the beginning and replaced when they decided to change her image?

Facts! Do eminem next

You literally ripped this off a super popular post from years ago. It was a hoax y a Brazilian guy who wanted to see if he could prove people would believe him. Jeez. At least give the guy credit.

Hey there! Singer checking in. The female singing voice gets gradually higher during puberty and shortly thereafter. My voice started out really low in my teens but with the help of a professional vocal coach I now have a much higher singing voice. It is entirely possible that she started taking singing lessons and doing singing warm ups that she hadn't done before, which expands the range of the voice and the pitch and timbre.

I love the presentation though.

The handwriting is what does it for me. I couldn't change my handwriting even when I tried to clean it up.

Andrew WK killed her

I'm glad this obviously took a lot of research and has nothing to with politics, but you shouldn't try to confirm your conspiracy by mentioning another one. It only makes your one weaker.

Never heard of her before but money changes people. She could have easily fixed her teeth, seen a dermatologist, and got plastic surgery. Great post though.

You've been sitting on this a while? Should've waited longer

That’s just mean.

OP I initially thought you were nuts, but then I remembered the JT Leroy scandal. I worked in book publishing and everyone was duped by this crazy story -- this woman wrote books as a man who had been abused, sexually assaulted, and worked as a prostitute. She had her sister-in-law appear in public as the "author," "JT Leroy" in a wig, sunglasses, and basically a costume, and refused to talk to anyone because of "shyness." This shit went on for years until NYMag exposed them. It was all a lie. They made a lot of money off of this hoax:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JT_LeRoy

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/14718/

So yeah, I could see this being true.

Yeah the only people who knew about it were those of us in publishing and the people directly involved with the movie. It was incredibly embarrassing for the publisher and everyone just tried to forget about it immediately after.

Cool to see some non-political stuff for once. Reminds of the good old days. There is another weird story out there about how Miley Cyrus has been replaced as well. Something about her being taken out to the desert and never returning. Creepy shit out there.

Is it the real or fake Miley in the pornos?

Lol, I guess it would be the replacement. The real one has supposedly been dead in the desert for quite some time. It all supposedly happened pre Wrecking Ball phase.

Those ears look identical to me, just different lighting and a different angle of the head, probably.

Still, fun stuff, love seeing real conspiracy shit in here.

This is just one of those fun conspiracies like the whole McCartney thing. Like it's fun but I don't think many people believe this or more importantly give a shit

This was a hoax started by a blog as an experiment to see how quickly disinformation/misinformation spreads on the Internet. It has been a pathetically effective experiment.

You refer to snopes? snopes is a hoax. How anyone can think 2 people can prove, verify, debunk all this shit is total bull shit. Snopes is a disinformation machine.

Did you read the article or just flip out about it being on Snopes?

I flipped out cause snopes was mentioned. Fuck snopes and it’s bullshit lies. I hate when you’re having a conversation with somebody and they reference Snopes for their facts, happens more often than not.

You should read it, and evaluate for yourself.

About all this has accomplished is I'm now having an Avril marathon!

Sweet!

Brilliant post, refreshing stuff for the sub!

I can’t believe ‘they’ would go to these lengths for a flop star. It’d be far easier to just market Melissa as someone new after Avril’s death.

Wait. Paul McCartney isn’t Paul McCartney????

A-VRIL (Vril Society)

LYME DISEASE

Death by hanging is always a sign of illuminati ritual sacrifice? Give me a fucking break. Sometimes people just hang themselves.

Prove it

Id say its more of a case of her being mk ultra'd. If they got their claws on her and activated an alter, it would cause noteworthy changes including physical ones over time. Not the ears though.

Interesting connection on the beattles doppleganger. LSD was one of the main mind control drugs used to create alters by mk ultra. Would explain their acid phase, also potentially lennon's assassination, assuming lennon was ready to talk and they didnt want that.

This stupid shit is the type of thing that makes “conspiracy” a negative word for so many people.

I'm cool with it. Melissa is way hotter.

This is the CONSPIRACYS I SUBBED FOR THANK YOU

oh god, the crazies are really thriving on this sub.

This is one of the dumbest and best written things I've ever read.

It's a proven fact that Avril was not a punk girl but changed that because that's what was wanted. Why wouldn't she change that again? Where is the scientific facts to prove this? Why would her family not come forward and say she's dead? This is just complete bullshit just like Elvis and 2Pac being still alive.

While I don't actually agree with you, that Avril has been replaced. I do want to thank you for posting something other than politics, these kind of conspiracy theories are the ones I want to read about. Not boring old bullshit about trump or clinton, which can be seen in any other sub.

As for Avril looking different, it could just be due to ageing. I know that you mentioned that she hasn't aged much, but she is young and she isn't going to get wrinkles for quite a while. Peoples faces do change over the course of 10-15 years, even when they take good care of themselves.

I do think you are on the right track with looking into the music industry though.

You know you are looking at a sad life when someone spends this much time researching a celebrity who no one cares about. How about go outside and maybe find a girl friend. You need to move out of your parents basement.

This still doesn't answer why everythings always gotta be so complicated

I approve of the amount of effort somebody has gone through to make us all think that a just ok singer did not kill herself but instead made a lot more music after everyone forgot about her.

Your collection of factoids is nice and all, but does not constitute real evidence.

It's so easy to push someone into the limelight, why bother replacing her if she did die? What's the point? Just make another pop-star from the mold, that's what happens anyway.

Props for all your hard work, I was just listening to her album yesterday and wondered if the rumors of her death were true or not. Thanks for this post!

Well done. I enjoyed the read. Obviously not true, but appreciate the thought.

One issue is the idea that the record company would use an imposter to keep the gravy train going. Sadly, pop stars are usually worth more dead than alive. Paint a vulgar picture.....

Hpnestly up-voting this on the sole fact it’s a refreshing, well presented peice of batshit crazy content that has nothing to do with politics.

Great job.

Fun theory, but those ears really are completely identical, they've just been photographed at a slightly different angle and under completely different lighting conditions.

Well know if OP stops commenting and posting in a few weeks if he was right or not lol

I enjoy the jfk is Jimmy Carter better, they look really similiar and she might have messed up her voice with drugs.

Admiral Marine is not dead, I know her plumber.

The ears look the same to me.

Hilary Duff didn't sell out so why should Avril Lavigne.

I believe you OP.

Although, I have and idea that maybe her "fake" suicide was staged, so that she could get out of the lime light by hiring a double.

Makes no sense, especially since a dead pop star can make more money then when alive.

I think the answer you're looking for is "Puberty".

Maybe her career.....

"Avril" once did a photoshoot around 2007 with the word Melissa written on her hand: http://i.imgur.com/bqV5tv3.jpg

So let me get this straight. A girl named "Melissa" replaces "Avril."

Why the hell would she put "Melissa" on her hand for a photoshoot? To fuel the conspiracy? As a secret clue for detectives? Would her handlers allow that if true?

How the fuck is an Avril Lavigne clone post at the top? Ridiculous.

She's grown up and got better looking. Not a conspiracy. Also, why not clone someone more important

didnt cornell OD? he od'ed on his tour bus in MN when he shot up fentanyl he got from the cartel here while on tour. I know the Beatles one is true but some of this stuff doesnt quite check out

I won a contest in December 2002 to meet Avril at a radio station at z95.3 in Vancouver. I first heard her in the spring of that year and also attended a free concert z95.3 put on in July 2002. I went alone and was pretty embarrassed to be honest! Anyway late that year z95 put on a contest to meet her, and I’d developed a crush on her so I thought what the hell, I’ll enter. I, along with several others, won the opportunity to meet her at the radio station. I think this was early January 2003, and I went with my cousin. We arrived and after a delay they announced Avril was sick with the flu and could not perform. Everyone was disappointed but they assured us they’d reschedule. It was still fun, they fed us and toured us all around the station and gave us all kinds of swag.

They did reschedule for April iirc, and this time my friend and I went over. We ate some banana bread that had an ounce of weed cooked into it and we got really high. We were definitely out of place, dressed in our baggy pants, timberlands, gold chains, and such, and they took us along with all the moms and young girls into this little room where Avril and her guitarist were set up. They started playing Skater Boi and after 15-20s both of them burst into laughter and my friend and I were convinced they were laughing at us. We stank like weed, were dressed like rappers, and were obviously out of place. They composed themselves and started again.

After that song the radio host/DJ asked the little crowd which song they wanted to hear next. All the girls said one song but Avril was like uh... no we’re going to do I’m with you. The DJ livened up the crowd with a “on the count of three yell out which song you want Avril to play!” And everyone yelled out the song she didn’t want to play. She was very uncomfortable and it was apparent to me that she did not know how to play said song and her and her guitarist just said ok 1,2,3,4 and started playing I’m with You.

Then the DJ interviewed her and she was giving such terrible answers. Asked where she gets her style from, and who her heroes are. She just gave non-answers. I had drawn this really cool picture for her and was going to present it to her but right after the interview she hopped up and booked it out the back door, I just had a “oh that sucks” attitude but all those young fans wanted autographs and such.

Anyway, the weed finally wore off, we got drunk and went to the concert later that night. I was able to get the drawing to her by giving it to Theo from the band Gob and then that was it for what my sister dubbed my obsession with Avril Lavigne.

I do think something was very weird with her behaviour at the radio studio! Maybe it wasn’t the original her and she only knew how to play a couple songs on the guitar. Because at that free show the year before I recall she played all of the songs.

TLDR: I was obsessed with Avril and went to her first concert, then won a contest to meet her which was mysteriously cancelled, and then saw her and she couldn’t play a song on the guitar from her album and also couldn’t answer questions about herself.

Thanks for not posting political circle jerks OP!

This is such an old theory...

The first pic is the only thing that makes sense.

Everything else just looks like a girl who gained weight and changed style.

Also Paul didn't die lol

I haven’t finished reading this yet, but I wanted to add: does anyone believe that Paul Mc Cartney really died in the late 60s? I’ve gone down rabbits holes with that conspiracy and the Netflix Doc: Paul Mc Cartney Really Died is pretty convincing as well. Lol.

3729 upvotes... From WHO!?!?!

Maybe she was just groomed and the changes in her image are because she has been groomed.

The photographic evidence isn't convincing and if you single out letters in her hand writing they are very similar.

Upvote for using the sub for it's original intent

Awesome post man!

Lol I know her and her family personally. It's really strange to see conspiracies about someone you know. Really puts the whole conspiracy thing into perspective.

Im not gonna be mean, but the ears are identical, taken from a different angle

Yeah, but why?

So that the record label or agents or a combination of people who profit from her life can continue to profit from her "life".

What about all those other dead singers, and movie stars, and musicians? Why didn't they make clones of those people to keep making profit?

Hmm?

Maybe they couldn't find a double or it wasn't worth it so they just left it at death, there not actually cloned, they're just doppelgängers, plus you wouldn't want to replace every famous person that died or we would catch on faster.

Right that totally makes sense /s

Jesus christ the shit some of you people actually believe. lol

The Avril theory I've heard a couple times. Not interested in her, but the Paul McCartney hoax, I'd never heard of that and spent too much time on YouTube learning of the dearth of Paul. That was fun.

People get more famous when they die young.

She'd be worth more if she pretended to die rather than her agent pretended she was still alive.

the ear picture is at different angles. the first shot is angled, the second shot is even with the side of her head. very interesting though you get my upvote

I don't know. She probably could have made them more money being dead.

thank you for the write up. I just circle back to Why? Stayling alive is rarely as lucrative as cashing in on a death in the entertainment industry.

I used to be a huge fan but sorry dude. She just changed and sold out to gain more fans. I heard she got into therapy around 2002 because she had a huge depression. Then after a while she felt better and changed to this super happy person. She had beauty treatments and allot of other things to feel better.

I generally dont put any stock in these types of conspiracies, but I do enjoy reading about them. I look at them as a kinda "harmless" conspiracy in that I dont mind them being around, and dont shit on those who may believe them

No one in the comments is calling you out for copying this from twitter last year??

Lots of naysayers around here. You must be on to something OP.

(the way Paul McCartney had been replaced by William Shepherd (stage name Billy Pepper) who was frontman of the band Billy Pepper & The Pepperpots in 1966) in order to continue her legacy. Just as with The Beatles, Avril's music endured a drastic overhaul in order to fit more in the style with of the new impostor so as to make her feel more comfortable playing her new role. Whereas The Beatles music became more complex with the release of 1967's Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club,

Blow that shit out bro, In 1966-67 they started experimenting with drugs (weed, LSD, ect) and started playing their own things, hence why Sgt Peppers is so different. Frankly I dont give 2 shits about Avril, but don't fuck with the Beatles. Oh and the illuminati, really? That's the exact moment you lost me.

Lina Morgana

I remember hearing a similar story about Andrew W.K. anyone else hear of that?

Why go through all that effort? She was not at a McCartney level status by any means. Thats all BS too..impossible.

To keep the money rolling in? Pretty compelling reason that the family would go along. Just a suggestion, I got no dog in this hunt really.

Ears look exactly the same. Nothing you've provided is compelling. Paul is dead tho, imo.

Does her husband Chad know about this?

I don't think we should look at this as a one off story. Maybe this one is fake. Maybe the Paul McCartney theories are fake. I personally think that many individuals with careers as public figures are involved with replacements of their "character." I'm not an expert by any means but from what I understand, in the legal form, you could technically sell or transfer your "public persona." This could give someone the ability to retire or disappear from public life but still collect royalties from their legally owned "persona". This could answer why we see so many celebrities dying at very specific ages (it's just the legal way to retire and still collect $) It doesn't have to involve some voodoo of clones or anything. It could be as simple as hiring a famous impersonator As a side note, I think Eminem has recently been replaced.

I'm downvoting because I feel like r/conspiracy is being trolled to look stupid.

4000+ 80%+ upvotes, what the fuck?

This was a great post. I think it's crazy, but I read the title and thought "Something different!"

This isn’t as far-fetched as some would have you believe.

I learned today that the star of a television show, Mr. Ed, was replaced by a doppelgänger when the original star died a couple of years after the show ended and took over the identity for the next 9 years before himself dying.

And don’t get me started on Dick York/Dick Sargent of Bewitched.

On the ear pics it looks like the same ear from two different angles.

If she was depressed about fame and hated the paparazzi for what they did to her, and she was determined to kill herself... why not do it in a way that hit back at her perceived enemies? She could have done it in a way that was a big "fuck you - look what you did to me" to the paparazzi and music industry.

I don't think her record label would go to all of this effort just to continue "her" career if in fact she killed herself. Actually, she might have even been more valuable to them if she was dead. A lot of musicians die in their prime, from suicide or otherwise, and it generally makes them more popular than ever.

Interesting post though. I like these detailed ones.

I always wonder what kind of life you have to live to end up as someone that believes things like this to the point of obsession.

Have you ever thought of actually getting a life instead of spending so much time making claims that are utterly stupid and deranged? Or is this all a bit of LARPing and you're playing the role of nutjob who is in dire need of medication?

I actually had no clue any version of her was still alive, but alright.

Real or not, this is the kind of shit I come here for, not all the political crap.

She married that Nickelback guy and she never recovered.

I'll bet she wishes she could get her Nuptualsback.

So much for her happy ending :/

"was fed to the Avril fanbase from the illuminati (under the pretense of a hoax) from one of her international fansites. In any case, death by hanging always signs of illuminati ritual sacrifice. Robin Williams, Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington all died by "hanging" as well."

Wat. OP is just dumb as a rock or trying to make conspiracies look bad

My wife went to high school with Avril. She still stops by her favorite pizza place in Napanee when she's in town.

Perhaps some of the changes can be attributed to her struggles with Lyme disease?

I like how no one here really believes this, but everyone up votes in based on presentation alone, lol.

I upvoted for sheer entertainment value.

This was a great read. Can you do one on Eminem next? (I'm dead serious)

Once you believe on conspiracy. It is easy to believe them all

I hope she isn't dead. Avril was always the woman i wanted when i was a teenager.

4.2k Upvotes, 68 comments???!! Who gives a fuck about this Avril Lavigne bullshit? Talk about a distraction! The powers that be aren't wasting cloning technology on some crappy popstar. They are creating super soldiers and tapping into the genetic possibilities of emortality for the power elite while all you people are wasting energy arguing about some chicks birth marks and teeth.

3000 up votes in conspiracy? That's a conspiracy in itself

The ears and handwriting are unconvincing. Examining the hand writing, the work 'I'm' looks quite similar.

Well the evidence didn't really blow my mind. So that was kind of disappointing, since I'm into mysteries like this. Does anyone have some convincing evidence that's more specific and in detail?

I don’t think Deryck Whibley would have married a clone 😂😂 that’s the only flaw (and a huge one at that) that I’ve ever seen in the avril died conspiracy.

her marriage... really? A.L. would not have fallen for the most reviled talentless label created 'music' maker from the most hated band.. nickelback.

No face pimples after 10 years? Thats it exposed.

I change my handwriting like 5 times a year, interesting post though!

The ears are clearly the same. The rest is all just understandable

It's Britney, bitch

Yeah, "My grandma says it looks real."

Whole album is great, but go right on ahead and blast your beiber and fuck right on off if you disagree.

Yep agreed - this is why I come here

I don't think so. People do all kinds of schemes to make or save money. It's not unreasonable for me to imagine a talent manager, if she heard about it first, to come up with a plan. I mean millions of dollars in future earnings are at stake.

Remember, the family will make tons of money after the death, but for the manager, that's the end of thier meal ticket. People have done far crazier things for far, far less money.

If that was a plaintive cry by someone who yearned for freedom, why would he keep the charade going for another 50 years?

My lobes are tad bit bigger proportionally to when i was younger. But the shape of the ears in his pics up there are pretty much the same. Only tilted.

Show us what you see.

It's the same ear.

As far as you can tell from that picture comparison.

These people created an entirely fake persona: http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/14718/

It was a woman in a wig, talking through an assistant, pretending to be a man.

They got book deals and a movie deal out of it. They made a lot of money and celebrity friends. I would not be surprised if OP's theory is true.

Ha! I said that the other day in this sub and got downvoted. This sub is so bizarre.

Same. So sick of all the "Obama is corrupt" "Killery" "Trump is innocent" posts ew ew ew ew ew

I see the way you’re acting like you’re somebody else gets me frustrated.

x-files theme

You’re going to love my post later about Keanu Reeves inserting live bats into his anus.

Yeah the only people who knew about it were those of us in publishing and the people directly involved with the movie. It was incredibly embarrassing for the publisher and everyone just tried to forget about it immediately after.