I like how anti-anti-vaxxers have such a hateful attitude towards anti-vaxxers, yet have done literally 0 research into the material and just repeat the memes and other BS theyve been fed for years.

Fair enough. I havent researched too much into the whole thing because it just seems a very open-shut case for me and havent heard about adjuvants before.

You know, instead of typing that, you could have been catching up on some learning

And instead of you typing that, you could have gone and fucked yourself.

Aluminum nanoparticles that are there to help stimulate the immune response to the pathogen being injected, allegedly to help build immunity.

The problem is these aluminum particles are taken up by macrophages, which are unable to digest them, so they then carry them throughout the body and eventually pass the blood brain barrier, contaminating the brain with aluminum, which causes inflammation. The inflammation attracts more macrophages, also contaminated with aluminum, leading to a vicious cycle of inflammation.

Thanks for that. I knew all about the aluminium, but not by that name.

It's been in vaccines since the 1920's, but there have been limited studies on its safety because it's been "generally recognized as safe," even though there is no history of in depth studies ever proving that.

Yep. And because they say vaccines are inherently safe, they do very few long term toxicity studies.

" Experimental evidence also shows that simultaneous administration of as little as two to three immune adjuvants can overcome genetic resistance to autoimmunity. In some developed countries, by the time children are 4 to 6 years old, they will have received a total of 126 antigenic compounds along with high amounts of aluminum (Al) adjuvants through routine vaccinations. According to the US Food and Drug Administration, safety assessments for vaccines have often not included appropriate toxicity studies because vaccines have not been viewed as inherently toxic."

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0961203311430221

So? Why would you believe anything the government tells you?? You dumb or something?

They also sell you mac and cheese with paint in it while in other countries that's illegal...the list goes on forever

Easy way to remember it - (Adjuvant= agitate) added to vaccines cause an event that stimulates the immune system.

Yeah, if only there was a way to stimulate that immunity without causing neurological damage and death. IF OOOOOONLLYY.

Adjuvants may be added to a vaccine to modify the immune response by boosting it, such as to give a higher amount of antibodies and a longer-lasting protection, thus minimizing the amount of injected foreign material.

Thanks for the response.

No worries mate! I was off on my medical terminology and didn't know what it was either.

boosting it by creating a small infection :)

In some cases, yes.

This is the same with many topics.

My buddy since high school (long time ago) total swallows the official story of 911.

The day it happened I doubted that planes alone caused the collapses

He won't even engage in discussion. Mocks me and ridicules any attempt to show him reality.

He took shop in school while I took physics and biology.

There may be a correlation there.

Well he probably didn't too well in that class either. He is low level management at FedEx now.

Anytime I mention anything about fringe stuff he goes "Conspiracy theory incoming in 5!... 4!... "

On the opposite side of the coin is my sister. She has her master's in education. Biology and sciences.

Say something bad about vaccines and she goes bonkers.

Sonu bring up the fact that Gates runs all over India jabbing people and yet doesn't build a well or a sewage plant. Seems odd when polio is transmitted via the fecal/oral route.

No it doesn't she says

Huh? Oh dummy little brother talking out his ass eh?

Try looking it up. And sewage treatment and well water would help with so many other ailments.

My point is people want to feel smarter than others around them... at any cost.

A similar attitude is towards smoking. Since they have banned it in most public places people feel they can shit on smokers now. Loudly.

I think people like to hang on to anything that makes them feel superior over others. Even if it's wrong.

You studied Biology and Physics? What's your degree in?

No. Electives in high school. I am a refrigeration mechanic.

Well there's definitely a conspiracy behind 9/11. But Vaccine's are fine.

To stare "vaccines are fine" is meaningless. All vaccines are not fine. Many have been pulled from the shelves. And some get shipped to other countries where they aren't banned yet.

Immunology as a science is young and far from perfected by humanity.

To question vaccines is a sound and logical position.

Immunology, more specifically vaccination has been studied since the 1700s. That's not exactly a new science. That's the same amount of time since the full-scale study of electricity and magnetism.

Agreed. Modern vaccines are a relatively new science.

Similar to brain meds... 100 years man fucking with it over millions of years of nature.

Much of this is people thinking we can do a better job than nature has. Nature's way is slower an has far more extreme action for the individual... But it works.

Survival of the fittest does not include placate the weak. Sorry.

Also wtf downvoted for asking about your education after you used it to justify your superiority of your friend? I was just asking. I get excited when I run into other people who study science.

Hey I didn't down vote you. I will give ya orange to make up for the bots.

A quarter of Reddit is bots and another quarter are flesh bots.

Many add unwarranted inflection to comments and might have thought you were being dismissive.

I have many interests and on some subjects am probably better read than are one with degrees in the field.

Similar to an argument I had with my pal about 911. I brought up Gage and AE911 he says "3k engineers - for, enveryone else - against"

No. No comment is not a "for" comment.

No evidence is not evidence.

To question vaccines is a sound and logical position.

That's hard to disagree with. Unfortunately, most people don't argue from a sound and logical position. There's plenty of science that supports the idea that vaccinces are safe. And most of the time any science that doesn't fit the anti-vax thing is dismissed or ignored.

E: and the official story of 911 is a conspiracy theory.

That's an interesting way of saying it. Could you clarify the meaning behind that?

19 (or more) men collided in secret to commit a heinous act. They even have evidence to back up their theory like a Koran left in a trunk of a rental car. Oh and a clue passports that survived in tact.

The 911 Commission is a conspiracy theory.

I hope you don't believe that airplanes are fueled by kerosene. You seem to know quite a bit about 9/11 conspiracy theory, so I hope you know that studies have shown that jet fuel indeed can weaken steal beams.

https://youtu.be/FzF1KySHmUA

I realize industrial terms are difficult for you, but yes that is a Forge

You don't understand the significance of a structural integrity failing at temperatures FAR BELOW melting points.

Where was the forge on 9/11? You understand a forge is not going to be very hot at all if the forge fire is producing smoke, right...wait...no you don't know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forge#Gas_forge The fuel was literally jet fuel. Except apparently you don't understand that temperatures can still get quite hot while still producing smoke. You realize even lava fires cause smoke?

How does this woman stand here if the temperature around her is 1500 degrees?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_gradient You understand that temperature can change significantly depending on position. Like how the guy in the video is able to film the video while being only several feet from his forge?

Not exactly a scientist

apparently I don't need to be one to understand how heat works

He listens to Tobey Keith, you listen to Aerosmith?

Nah. Punk rock for life!

Aerosmith's first album is way nastier than most "punk rock."

Yeah, they're fucking idiots. Most people are idiots. Also, jerk offs. Lotsa fuckfaces too...fuckheads. Morons. Dunce caps...tardfucks...shitbrainses.

Tell us how you really feel.

Puds, chodes, dildos...wankers....pizza eaters

Mouth breathers and grin gooblers.

Yep. They've done none of their own research. Yet attack those who have.

We live in upside down world.

Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

I love this new upside down world where people watching echo chamber YouTube videos is considered “research”.

Im going to guess .00001% of the people against vaccinations on the internet have gone to any form of medical school that didn’t start with www.

Quotes from doctors.

"VacTruth.com Share Tweet Pin Share VacTruth.com Vaccines: What Your Doctors Know and Don’t Know JENNIFER HUTCHINSON RECENT ARTICLES TOP STORIES By Jennifer Hutchinson / July 31, 2012

What did your doctor learn about vaccines in medical school?

Do you ever wonder what doctors know about the dozens of vaccines they inject into your children? What they learn in medical school about vaccines? And after they graduate? Who controls what they are taught? My research has been quite an eye-opener.

WHAT DOCTORS LEARN IN SCHOOL … First question: What do doctors actually learn in medical school about vaccines? Here’s what several have to say.

Dr. Suzanne Humphries:

“We learn that vaccines need to be given on schedule. We are indoctrinated with the mantra that ‘vaccines are safe and effective’—neither of which is true. Doctors today are given extensive training on how to talk to ‘hesitant’ parents—how to frighten them by vastly inflating the risks during natural infection. …on the necessity of twisting parents’ arms to conform, or fire them from their practices. Doctors are trained that NOTHING bad should be said about any vaccine, period.” [1]

Dr. Bob Sears:

“Doctors learn a lot about diseases in medical school, but we learn very little about vaccines. … We don’t review the research ourselves. We never learn what goes into making vaccines or how their safety is studied. So, when patients want a little more information about shots, all we can really say as doctors is that the diseases are bad and the shots are good.” [2]

Dr. Larry Palevsky:

“I was taught that vaccines were completely safe and completely effective. But I kept seeing that my experience … in using and reading about vaccines, and hearing what parents were saying about vaccines were very different from what I was taught … When I look at the studies that the AAP and the CDC put out, saying that there’s no correlation between vaccination and autism or vaccinations and asthma, I have to say that the studies just don’t hold up to the scientific standards.” [3]

A www.imrightdotcom.com quote. From the unbiased research group over at the Vactruth facility.

Attack the source. Obvious tactic, bud.

Tactics? Lol.

There was no facts in there. Just some people’s names with opinions.

Yep. People with medical degrees.

But you go ahead and worship Dr Off it who said babies could safely handle 10,000 vaccines in one day.

In fact, you go line up for yours since that's the kind of person you trust.

How dare you question your white coated Gods!

Their word is gospel and should be believed as such!

Now say 20 Hail CDCs for your transgressions.

Haha.

How did you know I had a Paul Offit poster over my bed?!

Of course, is attacking the source a valid tactic. You claim those people have credibility but they don't.

LOL

It pretty sad that we have to go to medical school these days to be able to know if what we’re being sold or prescribed is real or a scam, helpful or harmful. The dribble they push on the news is ever changing and contradicts itself every few years.

No people go to medical school so people who believe anything their told don’t have to.

Hey there,

Words are power- choosing the right ones is important to accessing this power. The word you seek is 'drivel.'

Most birth vaccines specifically are fine. MMR has some questionable effects in regards to a prevalence in children needing speech therapy after MMR shots, other than that, a lot less deaths from mumps, measles, and rubella than without the vaccines.

The bigger issue is with shit like the "flu shot", Watch this if your interested, basically, flu shots are basically useless, statistically only help severely immune compromised individuals, setup by merck executives who worked for CDC and stuff and made it a normal thing, 5 billion dollar business, etc etc.

This guy gets into the aluminum which is fine, I don't care about that though.

Do you know if any research has been done on toxicity levels of injectible aluminum?

Thank you. I wished they had body weight and age for toxicity levels. The whole schedule and everything is shady in my opinion. I believe in vaccines just not the additives used or schedule. Thanks for this post.

Yeah, like was that a joke? Very exciting seeing someone actually go read about it.

Keep fighting the good fight!

Rofl wut.

You do realize I read through peer reviewed articles religiously guy.

I'll give you something to read instead of that crap you tried to submit to me

Vaccines are absolutely fine, I don't think you know what your talking about, at all.

House mate of mine missed most of her childhood vaccines. Anyway she decided to catch up and the doctors put her on the paediatric schedule. Ie the kiddies shots. Anyway she had to stop after getting very ill with super high temperature and a full body rash.

did the doctor tell her it was a coincidence?

no, they stopped the program

but... correlation doesn't equal causation!

This starts a slippery slope proving OP's point about people who are at all skeptical of the flu shot being immediately dismissed. They're not allowed to have any I'll effects? It has to be a "coincidence." Can't that be said of all side-effects then?

"Oh, you felt that right after taking the pill? That's just a coincidence..."

Really? Not even an incredibly rare personal allergy? You write him off immediately with "impossible."

MMR has some questionable effects

too many all in one go. not good for little bodies.

There's no essential vaccines

Really no essential doctor visits unless you break a bone

I was diagnosed last December. Lost feeling in some extremities, thought nothing of it, then couple days later BAM! suddenly lost feeling in my entire body. Spent a week in the hospital, every test you can imagine (CT, spinal tap, bloodwork), many of them multiple times a day. Not fun folks, do not recommend

My cousin got that. She still has residual issues like she needs to wear a leg brace and she has bad days. She was not good for a while there. Needed a trachiotomy and machines to breath. Couldn't move or talk. She was a private chef for rich peoole on private boats. She had been at sea for months, but they had stopped in NY for a few days. She got sick her first night docked in NY. Within hours her legs stopped working and then her whole body a little after that. Spent like a year in NY before she was well enough to be moved home. She is unable to work her dream job and travel the world doing it like she did. It was and is terrible

Thank you for sharing Miltown.

I was told the first night what could have happened if they hadn't caught it when they did and reading up on it was nothing short of terrifying. Fatigue and pain levels were extremely high for the first 6 months; when I finally got back to work I had to switch from floor to cashier so I could sit down. Needless to say I appreciate to my core just how lucky I was.

My heart goes out to your cousin. Life can be so unbelievably cruel. Not that it means anything, but she's got an internet stranger in her corner. Hoping/wishing/praying for joy, fulfillment and good health. All the best

Peace be upon you

LOL. The guy saying the flu shot is useless is hacking up a lung during his entire presentation. The picture of health, that's who I want to listen to when making medical decisions.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171106152302.htm

Not sick, at all.

The issue is not with adjuvants when in regards to the flu vaccine, the issue is with the virology of influenza and its mutagenicity.

When you give someone a flu vaccine for a strain that is dominant that year, it could lead to higher mutagenicity, especially if the strain within the vaccine is of a lower respiratory influenza, and you also get attacked by a secondary lower respiratory influenza infection from another strain, this will lead to high mutagenicity, especially considering you have introduced dead components of another influenza, that although may be dead by itself, some of the proteinous structures and components could still be salvagable by the secondary attacking influenza leading to much worse complications, pneumonia, etc.

This is becoming a consistent trend, I don't even need to talk about the adjuvants, I am all about the science.

Next you will tell me filamentous borrelial dermatitis is real, I remember when I was trying to educate people about that, the guy who knows absolutely nothing trying to tell me what?

I don't want you to listen to me, if you consider accurate, thorough science to be a negative thing as indicated within your comment, I feel bad for you, I honestly do.

LOL

ugh

|| LOL

| ugh

LOL

No, yeah, it's cute. Keep doing it.

Yes, deaths from measles, mumps, and rubella are down in vaccinated populations, but what about overall mortality?

Is it appropriate to vaccinate children if overall morbidity and mortality does not benefit?

It is your choice, as a parent, to decide what you think is best. Sadly this day and age doctors are lazy, they want to get people in and out so they can get through as many people as possible.

These leads to laziness, like giving the MMR shot all at once instead of properly spacing it out, that doctor thinks: "one and done, don't come back" then if you come back they are at a loss for words because they actually just fucked up, could lose medical licensing, etc, and I am sure at this point legislation has been introduced to protect medical licensing when this type of shit happens with vaccines specifically.

The problem is the lack of knowledge people are given in this day and age.

I have provided the full MMR vaccine ingredient list here with all its side effects, etc etc.

There is a lot of issues with it, and your right about overall mortality, as there is nothing me and you can go off of that states a difference either positively or negatively of overall mortality in regards to vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

With mumps and measles making a comeback within the last decade or 2, I think vaccinating for these separately is still a good idea and protects children overall.

The biggest thing is, they are trying to reduce deaths, and reduce instances of encephalitis and pneumonia that lead to long term health issues if they infant even survives.

I believe there would show a better overall mortality within vaccinated populations, I don't think it would be massively extraordinary, but I believe it would be a higher by a measurable amount, the only thing is, this specific paragraph is all speculation, as there is nothing in regards to overall mortality in vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

In regards to your last question, just remember this, your child may still develop measles and mumps after receiving the vaccines, but I can tell you 100% that the symptoms, and the further complications, are much lower in the vaccinated children than unvaccinated. If you know (they go to school, its going to happen) they are going to come into contact with this viruses/bacteria, then the best course of action is to take preventative measures, IF you believe when or if your child comes into contact with them, they will develop a severe reaction.

I believe they should simply be spaced out appropriately, the problem is with laziness and time consumption in regards to doctors, they see it as taking too long, they want the lazy way out, etc.

That's the problem to me, is it isn't a choice. Every doctor in my town refuses to see their patients without them getting a flu shot.

Kids were being denied their mandatory shots for school, until the flu shot was allowed to be given. It was ridiculous. This should never be allowed to go so far. They are taking away the choice by hyping up how good it is and hiding the risks causing a panic, which all serves to make someone a ton of money.

Except for YOU CANT vaccinate for them separately. I did tons of research while pregnant with my son and found out that the vaccine companies stopped making MMR separately because people would not follow through on getting them all and the drug companies decided to stop making them independently around 2013. I'm sure the fact that they can charge for having all 3 vaccines in one helps their bottom line along with making sure people are getting fully vaccinated. My son who is now 2, is vaccinated but we spaced them out every 3 months instead of all at once. It's hard to know what the right thing to do is as a parent these days....

There is a lot of issues with it, and your right about overall mortality, as there is nothing me and you can go off of that states a difference either positively or negatively of overall mortality in regards to vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

What do you think about this research that took a very small look at this question? Citations 3-15 in the sources may also be interesting to you.

there is no plausible explanation for why a baby needs a Hep B shot on the day they are born

deaths from many diseases you mention had significantly declined years before the vaccine was introduced. in other words, correlation does not equal causation

Most birth vaccines are out of control in number, some are unnecessary (Hep B), some are not as risky as the disease (mmr, chicken pox). some are not a high risk of exposure, and they all load immature body systems with several very toxic ingredients, and I’m not even talking about the microbe.

https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/news/physicians-informed-consent-finds-mmr-vaccine-causes-seizures-5700-u-s-children-annually/

“In the United States, measles is generally a benign, short-term viral infection; 99.99% of measles cases fully recover,” said Dr. Miller. “As it has NOT been proven that the MMR vaccine is safer than measles, there is INSUFFICIENT evidence to demonstrate that mandatory measles mass vaccination results in a net public health benefit in the United States.”

“There is a five-fold higher risk of seizures from the MMR vaccine than seizures from measles, and a significant portion of MMR-vaccine seizures cause permanent harm.”

... wait so the anti vaxxers are the booth lickers??🤔🤔

ok not what I'm trying do. I just never thought of anti vaxers as the bootlickers so I was perplexed wonding if thats what you actualy ment.

in regards to my edit: just saying there are shills who blanket down vote certain topics from what I've gathered

https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/7wkimk/comment/du1gzqc?st=JDHS5002&sh=8043ade7

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Yeah, I don't have a problem with vaccines in theory; I have a big problem with vaccines in practice.

extremely anti-science/pro-boot licking.

The irony here is so thick you could swim in it.

Great post. Where did I say that?

LMFAO🤣🤣😂😅

Might as well have.

Lamahaoahahahha

In theory...still a retarded way to spend an afternoon..hanging out shooting people up with shit? Play some baseball, or jacks or whatever they should have been doing back then instead of fucked up experiments on humans

Scientists of this day and age are the priests of today. Not to say I don't believe many of the things discovered by science.

I wouldn't call Bill nye a scientist.

Well after the spectrum sex stuff most of Reddit started hating on him.

I bet that at least half of America think he's unintelligent.

I wouldn't call him not a piece of shit

Ok idc he's pretty harmless, so it isn't like he deserves to be called that.

Programming is harmful, surely

He's a lying scumbag douche. We don't need any. Fuck him. Let him eat GMOs and shoot vaccines into his dick

The Netflix show was harmful to children I'm sure but in the case of influencing me he's harmless.

He's an engineer. He's a scientist in the same way a medical doctor is. He doesn't do science, but he's learned some of the discoveries brought about by people who do science to be able to apply it to real world systems. That said, he's pretty science illiterate which is why he stopped posting on Twitter, real scientists were telling him he was wrong about shit. I wish different fields had different science spokespeople instead of Niel Degrass Tyson trying to educate people on GMO's because "well he's a scientist". Can we get a famous Biochemist on TV?

There's never been a study that demonstrates the "science" behind and efficacy of vaccines is true, i.e. there's no proof that injecting dead or damaged viruses or bacteria directly into the bloodstream provides any immunity from those phages. Tell them that too.

Correct, and no one is really sure how/why that lifelong immunity works. There's also studies that show childhood diseases bolster immunity across the board, including cancer resistance.

I'm vaccinated, everyone I know is vaccinated. 95% of my country is vaccinated. I don't see any negative effects of this.

Lol

Previous research has found that women of higher intelligence are having fewer children, meaning women of lower intelligence are driving population growth, according to the study.

Over time, experts say, that would affect the average IQ of a population.

How many vaccinations do you have?

 In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines

I know there were problems with the initial polio vaccine. It's been changed and no one gets polio anymore.

In b4 sanitation - its almost been eradicated world wide due to vaccination.

My grandmother's sister, who had polio from the age of 6. She spent a large amount of time at a children's home, because my great-grandmother had 8 other children to care for and they were poor farmers. Even though my family was quite poor, my aunt received treatment for polio and she successfully went to college, had a child (my cousin who is now in her 40s and healthy), and lived to 65. She passed away a few years ago after living a full life. She passed away from complications due to pneumonia - nothing polio-related, btw. Yes she was tiny (4'9) and had a hunchback but polio did nothing to stop her living her life to the fullest... she was the most jovial and funniest person I have still ever met to this day.

Hahahhahahahahhahahahhahah rekd

Oh yea, and thats OBVIOUSLY because of vaccines.

Nothing to do with all the smart people working and having 1-2 kids, and feral losers having 10 kids.

Frankly, I'm surprised IQ has not dropped further (which can only be due to improved education programs).

Exactly. Smart people who succeed and save have 0-2 kids. The degenerate huddled masses fucking pump them out every year. I wonder how the average will skew?

well, you're here

fluoride might be involved in this stat too?

My wife was vaccinated against whooping cough. She got full blown whooping cough and was hospitalized as a child for 3 months. My mom got the MMR vaccine, and got full blown measles. Risk acceptance should be managed by the parents. If you aren't putting your kids in school or daycare and they will have minimal exposure to the viruses, then delayed vaccination schedule or no vaccinations may be for you. People in rural areas are also at significantly lower risk for diseases.

Nice anecdotes. Statistically vaccination is beneficial to the population. Your kids will thank you.

"But but I heard of this one guy who..."

"Let me stop you right there..."

"but theres 120 studies that show vaccines don't cause autism!"

"let me stop you right there..."

No it's not, go read before you talk about stuff

why do vaccine cult victims dismiss empirical evidence as "anecdotal"?

me: i touched a hot stove and burned my finger

you: no you didn't, thats just anecdotal!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtk6vxVg0k

Read about it then. Just cause you're dick didn't fall off, doesn't mean you're brains isn't more than likely going to degrade at a faster rate than healthy people

I have a bsc in biochemistry.

Good for you? I'm sure you're grandmas stoked. Just because you didn't experience SIDS doesn't mean it isn't negative.

You're using the wrong your.

Super relevant

It is if you are trying to be taken seriously.

Do you fucking correct misspellings in text messages with your friends? Yeah, how do you know if they really want to get Chinese food, fuck face

That isn't a very good example. Fuck face.

I know, I almost went and deleted the part about you having friends, but then that seemed tacky

actually, being a spelling nazi just shows everyone that you are anal retentive, and yes, thats a real thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_retentive

I'm not particularly concerned.

if you weren't concerned, you wouldn't have commented

Me too! Biochemistry and Molecular Biology major and double minors in Math and Physics. So glad to see another scientist in here to help refute this crap. What are you doing with your degree? I'm just starting my M.S. in Biophysics.

I ended up in a totally unrelated field as it happens lol. University is good fun though!

you charlatans realize it takes longer to become a master plumber than it takes to get those worthless degrees they hand out at university?

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-11-340

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18454680

Lol "worthless degrees they hand out at university". Omg you are a sad sad little person. Did you even read those things you just posted? I'm a charlatan because I extensively studied biochemistry, physics, and math? Do you have any idea how to calculate mathematical models of molecular systems using partial differential equations or affine and projective geometry? Any extensive study in thermodynamics, techniques in theoretical physics, quantum mechanics? What about organic chemistry, cellular biology, clinical microbiology, structure and function of biomacromolecules? Just a random sampling of my courses I completed and continue to tutor for money. Yea what a waste of time. Especially all the real world experience I have applying that knowledge working in my research lab working on microtubule biophysics. That M.S. I'm working on and eventual Ph.D. is gonna look really dumb compared to a plumber. I bet you could easily explain to me why all the well proven and predictive things I have learned and use in the real world are actually wrong.

But can you plum?

Tradework is noble and can definitely be complicated. But for this guy to shit on something that was such a huge accomplishment for me and something that certainly not everyone can or is willing to do is really annoying.

Tl;Dr naw I can't plum

Bend over and drop your pants a little bit. A little bit more. A little more. Perfect. You look like a plumber

can confirm, only plumber I've ever called had his pants half-way down his butt the entire time he was under my sink.

kinda embarrassing to realize that sloppily dressed plumber will make twice as much as you this year?

Why is that embarrassing? How do you think people dress in a research lab? (Hint: it's usually jeans and a shirt, like what I wear anyway) I'm also still in grad school but hey at least I get paid to teach undergrad courses. BTW I think your math is off. Average master plumber makes $48,000/yr and the top %10 make $79,000/yr. Average salary for someone with a graduate degree in Biophysics is around $100,000/year and the top earners make over $200,000/year.

good luck with that.

i once worked for a very smart man, who went to one of the best universities for his field of study

one day i admitted to him that i didn't quite understand something (actually what i had just learned completely turned my previous understanding upside down)

so he politely explained what was going on, and then i understood a little better

then he proceeds to tell me that he only learned 5% of what he needed to know to do his job at the university, and the rest he had to learn on the job

then he goes on to say that he was so desperate for a job when he applied for this one, that he would have accepted anything, even a janitor job sweeping floors

i guess at some level he knew he was in a saturated field where people like him become disposable

suffice it to say, everything you think you know about electricity is wrong

There is a high demand for people with graduate degrees in Biochemistry/Molecular Biology/Biophysics. Definitely not a saturated field. I've already worked several paid positions at prestigious research institutions (WHOI and MBL to name a couple) so that will definitely give me a leg up in the job market once I finish grad school. Dunno what you learned about electricity that makes you think I don't know what it is/how it works. I can tell you definitively, though I'm not an electrical engineer, I have taken courses on Electricity and Magnetism and performed experiments to test the foundations of our understanding of the phenomena. They all performed as expected. As for what I've learned/am learning in school, it definitely informs everything I do in my current position in my research lab. I certainly learn more specific or complicated applications of general principals when working in the lab but without the foundation knowledge from classes on the subject I would be absolutely lost. For instance, when I have to clone and purify a specific protein with a specific tag that I want to use in an assay, I might be able to simply follow the protocol like a recipe, but I would have no idea about the underlying mechanisms by which the protocol worked. I would have no idea what to try and fix if something went wrong. I would have no idea how to interpret certain errors or how to modify the protocol under different conditions. These are all things that other's who work in the lab will not help you with because they have time consuming work, they are struggling to get their assays to work correctly, and that is stuff that I should already know before even stepping foot in the lab. What was your boss's field? What degrees did he get? Also, can you tell me what the real deal with electricity is? I'm very curious now.

But you’ll be able to afford a plumber.

Hopefully. End game is be the PI in my own University lab someday but pursuing work as a professor with a research lab in academia is... well the road to working way harder than you get paid, especially if I'm trying to devote my research to probing mysteries not traditionally, immediately, or easily understood as profitable. I probably won't make half as much someone who decided to just go for their M.S. and instead go into private industry managing a pharma lab or something. I can't deny my purpose though, research and teaching.

I found my calling about 10 years ago when I got promoted to run the department I’d worked in for like 15 years previous.

But a big part of that ‘calling’ is working with interns — we have a program with the local university and I probably get 6-8 in the fall and spring semesters and 3-4 in the summer. They’re my little ‘army’ and I’ve helped several get a big step up in where/what salary they start their careers, and helped a bunch who were less gifted at leastget a job out of college working somewhere under good people from whom they can learn.

Do the day, Scuddy; don’t let the day do you.

That sounds awesome. It really sounds like you're helping people on a personal level as well as contributing to the macroscopic success of society, which, however accomplished, is the noblest thing you can do with your time. Glad you're around.

I’m glad I’m around too haha.

plumbers can easily make more money than college professors

theres a shortage of skilled tradesmen, and a surplus of college degrees

economics 101 would tell you which way to go in your career

you are what they call "book smart", and thats not a compliment

there is a world of difference between studying books, and actually applying what you learned.

for example, you studied physics and math out of books,

but you can't apply that superficial knowledge to the moon landing hoax like i did here

https://i.redd.it/lzs2kkd6ove01.png

you studied biochemistry, but you can't tell us what causes autism, in spite of thousands of parents telling you point blank it was a vaccine

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hear+this+well+autism

but muh studies!!!

yeah, we know how "the science" is fixed around "the agenda"

https://i.redd.it/tt8lfnhj20sy.png

That's a whole lot of begging the question.

you can't apply that superficial knowledge to the moon landing hoax like i did here

/R/theydidthemath does this everyday

thousands of parents telling you point blank it was a vaccine

A thousand parents also tell teachers, "my little angel would never do that" but they're wrong then too

yeah, we know how "the science" is fixed around "the agenda"

Your just dismissing evidence against you because it's against you.

You're so poor without education that you can't even pay attention to a logical argument

But he made that scientific png file of yes or no questions and answers that's got to count for something doesn't it?

yeah good point. its a lot more work than anyone else in this thread will ever do

i like the way it makes you think about the moon landing problems in a new way

one sheep-like person once complained that he didn't like the questions because they left him feeling like the moon landing was impossible

and my reply to him was something like, yeah thats the point

i noticed that you incorrectly used "your" instead of you're

Your just dismissing evidence against you because it's against you.

really? then why did i already change my mind, whereas you have not changed your mind?

You're so poor without education that you can't even pay attention to a logical argument

logical argument:

generally speaking, you should avoid needles and germs, unless its called a vaccine. then you should get as much as you can

you can't figure out what causes autism because you don't want to know the truth about your vaccine cult?

heres some peer reviewed studies for you to ignore because muh science

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-11-340

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18454680

keep bragging about that education. all it means is that you licked boots longer than the next kid

really? then why did i already change my mind, whereas you have not changed your mind?

Because "You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into."

logical argument:

generally speaking, you should avoid needles and germs, unless its called a vaccine. then you should get as much as you can

Where is this stated? Because this whole comment chain is about the usefulness of a degree to determine likelihood of causes. Here's where it started:

Read about it then. Just cause you're dick didn't fall off, doesn't mean you're brains isn't more than likely going to degrade at a faster rate than healthy people

I have a bsc in biochemistry.

.

you can't figure out what causes autism because you don't want to know the truth about your vaccine cult?

Except, you know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Causes

Check out the sources on the last page, see the basis of this conspiracy crumble.

sources

uhh hate to tell you this but your first link is about, "The objective of this study was to estimate the numbers of CRS and ASD cases prevented by rubella vaccination in the United States from 2001 through 2010." And they state in the results, "we estimate that a minimum of 830 ASD cases and a maximum of 6225 ASD cases were prevented."

And your second study actually lists what symptoms they tested for https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/198/1/16/841083

All of the vaccinia virus– naive subjects who were enrolled in the study developed pock formation at the vaccination site, and a subset experienced systemic reactions that included fever, rash, or regional lymphadenopathy.

They determine that there is a link between three (though the third SNP has statistical support than the other two) SNPs and the listed AEs. This determination along with the functions of both SNPs is listed in their discussion but makes no determination of the extremity of symptoms due to the vaccination. In summary, this study is a long way from supporting your basis that vaccines cause autism (because it only suggests that certain symptoms correlate with the existence of certain variations of certain genes), and directly opposes your stance on academia's ability to determine liability.

keep bragging about that education. all it means is that you licked boots longer than the next kid

If that's what you think it all means, no wonder you can't even read your own studies let alone find any that support your position with any degree of finality.

your "education" left you believing that men have walked on the moon

I'm going to provide you a suite of resources to determine the validity of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_evidence_for_Apollo_Moon_landings

take a look at those sources, hell get your own telescope and follow any future missions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon#Future_missions

there's even video evidence: https://youtu.be/RMINSD7MmT4

You're just being a complete nutter by trying to disagree with such an established fact.

your "education" left you believing that Columbus' crew were flat-earthers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/busting-a-myth-about-columbus-and-a-flat-earth/2011/10/10/gIQAXszQaL_blog.html

So some lesson from fourth grade was wrong so all of academia is useless? This usage as "evidence" is what I mean by lacking in a logical argument. The article does nothing to determine the prevalence of the lesson in education, nor does a specific historical inaccuracy have anything to do with biological, medical, or statistical analysis. In fact it actually opposes your position by laying the blame of the inaccuracy at the feet of two specific authors who were incorrect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield).

your "education" has left you believing that vaccines are safe and effective

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=vaccine+effectiveness&btnG=

your "education' has left you believing big pharma sponsored science, and ignoring countless examples of empirical evidence

You really need to understand that anecdotal evidence is NOT empirical evidence. You're actually arguing entirely opposite to this point. You are ignoring the empirical evidence stating that vaccinations are safe and effective.

your "education" has left you believing that you are open minded, and yet you still can't understand Luke 24:45

Actually its thanks to education that I can understand it, because I was taught to look at sources and competing theories on it. The field of sociology is quite explicit on how one should go about understanding cultural pieces. You might want to read Body Ritual Among the Nacirema on its expansion of the idea of anthropological examinations.

more about your "education" in this excellent song, appropriately entitled

Lets list how wrong this person is:

(First things he claims weren't taught) Vocational training, internships, and other job training classes are offered in high school and up. Same with financial literacy. Social studies and poli sci classes do cover the voting process and many states do try to make voting as easy as possible (though interference with this is also a common enough). Gym and health classes are a national requirement from elementary school. Once again social studies and other current event classes are commonly available in high school at the latest (also covers legal statutes). Secondary languages are mandatory in most states.

(Now how things that were taught aren't useful) Dissection is a part of biological courses due to its reinforcement of multiple systems with specific purposes interacting to forma more complex mechanism. Shakespeare classics are taught due to its importance in western culture and empathetic characters (e.g. they explicit motivations with the use of monologues and the use of the comedy/tragedy/history theme). Isotopic and biological basis are important in combating the ignorant theories like demons in the body. Historical literacy helps the understanding of cause and effect, he specifically mentions Henry VIII and his marriages as political importance. Optics is not commonly expanded due to its niche importance, but once again as a part of a larger scientific curriculum to understanding how the world work and the ability to determine phenomena from those basic rules. He mentions cursive just before an affidavit despite cursive's commonality at the time being an official usage. Mathematics is similar to the scientific curriculum with only one of its parts being the ability to understand how one can extrapolate answers from incomplete data. I assume he's talking about the hippocratic theory and is again part of teaching the populace about the larger understandable basis of cause and effect with observable factors. Which ironically he directly mentions its importance in the next line about effective vs ineffective medicine which the theory and its iterative usage learns from. Basic arithmetic is a useful skill, the prevalence of smartphones is irrelevant due to the people that don't have access to those devices are likely to need the skill anyways.

You want to learn these things? Here we go:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/

Which has multiple classes devoted to understanding both political factors, legal aspects, language, philosophical, logic, and medical (including psychological or sociological) aspects.

You literally linked to something that academia was structured about. That is a more extensive focused education on certain issues directly important to one's own life. You can go to your local community college and enroll in classes of just about anything you want to know let alone both paid or free online courses through other universities or places like khan academy.

You are what they call "internet smart", and you are just plain sad. Take your presumptions and go to your local bar.

well... you still believe that vaccines are safe and effective

does that kind of stupidity have a special name?

Effective? Does that kind of ignorance have a special name? Vaccines prevent DEATH.

The only reason people can consider not vaccinating without too much risk (and we're having this debunked autism discussion) is because so many people do vaccinate. If enough people stop doing so, these diseases will come back.

But hey, don't listen to me, don't vaccinate your kid. Let it die of maesles. It will thank you.

Does being that kind of asshole have a special name?

Effective? Does that kind of ignorance have a special name? Vaccines prevent DEATH.

Right, and so does Jesus Christ, if you stupid enough to actually believe those lame ass sales pitches.

can you name a single person who's death was definitely prevented by a vaccine?

no, you can't. that's because its never happened.

The only reason people can consider not vaccinating without too much risk (and we're having this debunked autism discussion) is because so many people do vaccinate.

actually, its OK to get Chicken Pox and Measles.

if these two mild diseases actually kill you, then your immune system was weak and you would have had a lifetime of illness anyway.

If enough people stop doing so, these diseases will come back.

there has been only 2 instances where the vaccine quacks have claimed to have eradicated disease.

small pox

rinderpest

and those two claims are pretty flimsy, if you look into them

But hey, don't listen to me, don't vaccinate your kid. Let it die of maesles.

Measles Mortality And Vaccine Efficacy In Rural West Africa

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673683920913

Measles Vaccine introduced in 1968. The Measles vaccines is like "that friend" that shows up to help after all the hard work is done.

https://i.redd.it/n4txbk71328z.jpg

The Last Measles Death in the United States was in 2003

https://i.redd.it/2v64kqqiupyy.jpg

15 children die in botched measles vaccine campaign

http://news.sky.com/story/south-sudan-15-children-die-in-botched-measles-vaccine-campaign-10901941

t will thank you.

you should probably seek professional help for your irrational germ phobia

Does being that kind of asshole have a special name?

i love it when i can make someone resort to cursing and name-calling

it tells me that I've gotten inside your head

can you name a single person who's death was definitely prevented by a vaccine?

Yes. You most likely. That is like asking who's death was definitely prevented by not driving to work today. Learn about statistics. Look it up on the internet.

if these two mild diseases actually kill you, then your immune system was weak and you would have had a lifetime of illness anyway.

Ah. So that's good. Off the weaklings. Bloody parasites.

there has been only 2 instances where the vaccine quacks have claimed to have eradicated disease.

'Eradicated' means gone. As in gone gone. I was talking about diseases that might come back because people stop vaccinating, and these diseases get a chance again. So you're really boosting my argument here: antivaxxers are sabotaging eradication of dangerous diseases.

The Last Measles Death in the United States was in 2003

Again, helps my argument. Because vaccinations. Yay science!

picture picture selective internet link

This is what I mean by internet smart. It keeps surprising me that people like you think they are more of an expert on something than an entire group of people who studied about this and have experience in the field.

What do you think, people back around 1800 thought, when they created the first vaccine? "Let's lull people into autism. I have just this bullshit 'smallpox vaccine' to do it. Perfect for the job." Or perhaps they had the best interest of their patients in mind, like perhaps they still do?

The ignorance is powerful in this one.

The education may be beneficial sure. But degree's mean jack shit now compared to the past And boomers wonder why millennials are really fucked economically

Yeah no one cares about the plummeting birth rate either.

feminizing plastics

I care! It's the best thing to happen to this planet in the last 2000 years!

Do you or those 95% around you have Asthma Food allergies Learning disabilities Auto immune diseases Emotional/ mental problems ocd, adhd, anxiety Diabetes Seizures

There is a genetic vulnerability as well.

Its called having a family medical history. I was born with asthma but not heart disease, theres a chance I could develop a heart problem or even cancer. In the end its not like you can blame vaccines for hereditary diseases that you may or may not have from birth or develop later on.

No one is ‘borne with’ asthma. Heart disease is not on the list. Vaccinated children have higher rates of the listed conditions than unvaccinated.

I have a family member with type 1 diabetes and a friend with depression, but that's it to my knowledge. Also to my knowledge, none of them have or have had Polio.

As you can see it’s a matter of risk factors and personal vulnerabilities. Vaccines need to be more custom in their application. Not everyone is at the same risk for the same diseases. Not everyone will react as badly to a vaccine as another person. Not all vaccines are associated with the the same level of severe effects as another. The cookie cutter formula we have is a huge disservice to everyone. It’s lazy. They are not as safe or as effective as advertised. That’s the point: informed consent, not necessary doing away with vaccines. You should realize having safe and effective vaccines is to your benefit and your child’s benefit. Why would there be any objection to an independent safety commission? If all is safe, then there is nothing to worry about, and you can shut the antivaxxers up.

I know is vaccinated

So what are you using as a control group to determine there has been no negative effects when you admited that you do not know anybody who is not vaccinated?

The ones who died to treatable diseases

Compared to the people who died of complications resulting from vaccine injuries. We haven't seen that study yet. I look forward to the vaxed vs unvaxed study that examines total mortality.

Oh wait, the DPT vaccine has had a vaxed vs unvaxed study done on it and it from memory I think it showed total mortality in the vaxed population to be something like three times higher than in the un vaxxed population. Of course the study has been 'debunked' and is 'flawed'. It is a shame though that the pro vax usual suspects seem to be unable to do a study themselves that shows the results they want.

I’ve always found that “anti-vaxxers” are far more knowledgeable about vaccines and what they have in them than vaccine advocates.

First of all, most of the “anti-vaxxers aren’t anti-vaccine. They are pro SAFE vaccines.

Exactly. It's because if you make that choice you are forced to defend it so you really need to know your facts. Unlike pro-vaccine people (which is most people) who apparently don't need to know much about what they're injecting their kids with.

Vaccines are addressing the wrong side of the problem. Strengthen the body and you will be immune. You don't need to fight the disease. You need to understand how to support the bodies ability to fight the disease with intelligent eating (ie. eating differently depending on digestive strength, season, time of day, etc).

you can't immunize against polio (for example) like that

the consensus is not immunize and ignore healthy living, it's do both

The body immunizes itself. We don't need technology to stay healthy. I'd rather have a stronger version of the virus than a weaker version INJECTED into me. Since when does the body ever get injected a virus? This bypasses the whole immune system. Makes no sense. I haven't gotten a vaccine in years and have had no issues. I know kids that have never had vaccines and are like gods I'm their intellectual and physical ability.

Vaccines are about giving you a neutered version of the virus, while still making sure it shares features with the deadly, functional strains of the virus. This allows you body learn how to recognize the deadly, functional version ASAP to prevent it from progressing to the point of symptoms, or even being contagious. This works well for some viruses, like polio, because the virus doesn't change shape often enough to work around a vaccinated population. Other viruses, like the flu or hiv, change their structure rapidly enough that it's impossible to vaccinate against (for now). These viruses also have a lot of hosts so they have even more opportunity to evolve around vaccinated people.

I haven't gotten a vaccine in years and have had no issues.

Survivor bias. Also, you are benefiting immensely from heard immunity (and past vaccines). The kids you know also benefit from heard immunity.

Survived bias? No I have learned to listen to my body. Most people eat when they are not hungry or eat the wrong types of food at the wrong times. Thus their digestion is weakened and their body becomes weak. Injecting a virus, neutered or not, is completely invasive. Anyways the viruses are not the problem. The problem is a weak diet to due to ignorance of proper eating and lifestyle habits.

I always hear this "herd immunity" case but I don't buy it.

Why don’t you go inject yourself with a full strength polio virus then bud and report back.

You obviously didn't read my post. It's injecting a weak virus vs natural l processing a full strength one through the bodies defenses. Injecting directly BYPASSES the immune system. Even if it's a weak virus, THATS INCREDIBLY stupid.

I'd rather have a stronger version of the virus than a weaker version INJECTED into me.

Reads as if you’d rather have a full strength polio strain injected into you then a weak version. But hey, go inhale some polio virus then. Or why not go expose yourself to Ebola virus. I’m sure you’d be okay as long as you “eat the right thing at the right time.

Dude the polio virus is for the most part dormant in those who carry it, even those not vaccinated against it. It has NOTHING to do with the vaccine. Weak bodies become affected, not infected bodies. This whole vaccine theory is a big story they indoctrinated us into during school. Natural herbs and detox methods are much more effective (and thus less profitable) if done in a preventative way according to the time, place, and circumstance.

Considering the vast majority of people who are infected with polio don't show any symptoms whatsoever, I'd question the validity of your claim.

Sometimes simple facts are enough for common sense. most people see that billions of vaccines were administered and several diseases eradicated without noticeable downsides. Thus they use common sense.

Flat-earthers likely have also so more knowledge about some stuff related to there theory. For normal people just watching the stars is enough.

Knowing a lot about something and then coming to the wrong conclusion is the sad part here.

There’s a simple solution that should make everyone happy.

Eliminate the Vaccine Court and make Big Pharma libel for their vaccines. The Vaccine Court (US Taxpayers) has paid out over $3.5 Billion dollars in damages for Vaccine related injuries.

No mandatory vaccinations because it supersedes our rights to informed consent.

permission granted in the knowledge of the possible consequences, typically that which is given by a patient to a doctor for treatment with full knowledge of the possible risks and benefits.

How do you grant permission when it’s mandatory?

Those two would be a good start. I think if we make BigPharma libel for the damage their vaccines cause, they will do a better job making them safe.

conform. dont question authority. this is all you need to know. leave science for the scientists...
i think this type of thinking is widespread because the system is rigged to facilitate widespread arrested development. lots of us never grow up, but stay children internally, watching cartoons, playing video games, living with their parents and fearing any reponsibility. they realize the world is a scary place, but the nanny state and the system appears as a safehouse. all this resembles herd mentality, but i think at its core its a childlike, underdeveloped personality, where we are too afraid to engage with the world and let the 'adults' make the decisions for us.

We live in a IRL idiocracy, and you can do this in ever discussion, because it seems innocent, using the "I don't know so I'm just asking" technique. You drop a mini nuke, it shows that no one there knows anything, and you walk off into the distance with the ultimate F U

Pharma marketing has come a long way from late night ask your doctor mercials. Meme brainwashing is pretty impressive.

Scientism; religion of the NWO

I thought that was Satanism? What problems do you have with science?

When Merck was trying to get Gardasil approved, the company went so far as to design several experiments using an aluminum adjuvant injection as the EXPERIMENTAL CONTROL for adverse reactions!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012805/full

More than 10 years has passed since the systematic review by Jefferson and colleagues, new adjuvants are being introduced continuously, and FDA and WHO do not require genotoxicity or cardiotoxicity studies of new aluminium adjuvants (WHO 2014a; FDA 2015). Lately, symptoms following HPV vaccination have been suspected of being caused by the addition of aluminium adjuvant (Tomljenovic 2011; Lee 2012; Poddighe 2014; Brinth 2015a; Gruber 2015; Martinez-Lavin 2015). A recent animal study by Inbar and colleagues managed to spark further controversy by demonstrating behavioral abnormalities in mice administered the aluminium-containing HPV vaccine Gardasil (Inbar 2016a). Compared to previous animal studies on HPV vaccines, the authors included two control groups: one where mice were administered aluminium adjuvant alone and another with placebo without adjuvant (Inbar 2016a). Inbar and colleagues concluded that Gardasil via both its aluminium adjuvant and HPV antigens can trigger neuro-inflammation and autoimmune reactions, leading to behavioural changes in mice (Inbar 2016a). Upon submission to a peer-reviewed journal, the paper was accepted with revisions, and published. However, it was soon withdrawn by the editor (Inbar 2016), only to be published in a competing journal shortly thereafter (Inbar 2016a). The initial withdrawal was allegedly due to "unsound scientific results"; an assertion which was not supported by the final publisher.

The theory that aluminium adjuvant is responsible for symptoms following HPV vaccination is impossible to refute or prove based on the current data. Aluminium adjuvant has been administered to both experimental and control group in the vast majority of randomised clinical trials on HPV vaccines, thus masking its potentially harmful effects (Exley 2011). Clinical trials designed to administer vaccine adjuvants to the experimental group as well as the placebo group do, de facto, not compare an intervention against a true placebo, and therefore, do not adequately assess safety (Exley 2011). Indeed, aluminium adjuvants, new or old, should be evaluated for benefits and harms on their own merits.

"Vaccination" is now the most shilled subject.
Worse than the 9/11 shilling back in '05 and the Monsanto shilling in '09

"If you understand science you're a shill!" - you presumably

Alluminum is not harmful if swallowed as it does not absorb through the GI tract. but IV aluminum goes to the brain where it causes encephalopathy. There are numerous studies on this.

That being said, the risks are worth it.

Yes, you are correct. Thank you.

You don't need to know what an adjuvant is to have an opinion about the worthiness and value of vaccines. You don't need to know what a catalytic converter does to feel that driving a car is worthwhile.

Asking gotcha questions in a room full of people is not how you have an eye opening discussion with people, and it's definitely pretty socially inept.

I feel like this is some IRL r/IAmVerySmart material right here.

"Quick question...what's an adjuvant?" I can't even imagine how you this.

Every questions a "gotcha question" with fucktards

The nurse trying to administer the vaccine?

Albert Einstein

wearing nothing but a tube sock and night vision goggles

They got married right then and there.

Then everyone clapped.

Mic drop

I think pretty much everyone knows what a catalytic converter is

Do they? I worked with a girl we convinced she needed blinker fluid. Seriously, that happened.

Convincing girls doesn't count. Way too easy, they're very ignorant about most things

You are the crowd you keep

One of the cooks I used to work with liked fucking with new people by sending them to the basemen for cans of steam. We didn’t have a basement and, well, I’m sure you can guess whether or not we had cans of steam.

There is a strong movement to shame anti-vaxxers though and many of the people mocking them the loudest don't even believe there is any risk involved with vaccinations as if they are perfectly safe and would NEVER hurt you. I think the truth is there is risk, but the risk of the virus itself usually outweighs this risk of the vaccine itself, or so they decide. If you think about it a little it makes sense that there would be incentive to hide or play down the risks of vaccines by professionals because they know if they indicate there is any kind of risk then many people may start not getting vaccines and ultimately lead to massive outbreak of potentially deadly virus. It makes it a decision of concealing risk vs. potential deadly outbreak, sort of like the moral dilemma with the split in the train tracks with 1 person on one side and a group of people on the other side where they have to pick whether the group or the person gets hit by the unstoppable train.

‘Downplaying risks’ is the opposite of informed consent and it is unethical, unprofessional and fraudulent. Since when do professionals get to decide ppl are too stupid to make decisions regarding their own lives by LYING to them? So then, risks are not studied, not minimized, not acknowledged, not prevented, not improved. Ppl get stupider and sicker and more overwhelmed. Forget they had a question.

I was honestly just commenting on what I think happens and why it makes sense that it would happen that way. If it were up to me all data on all risks would be presented backed up by studies and people could make their own choice. However we don't live in a society that believes people are smart enough to make there own choices which should be blatantly obvious to everyone. As a libertarian this is not how I think it should be though at the same time I can see why it would be.

It’s very presumptuous, not to mention arrogant, to assume ppl are too stupid. If they are, fix the educational system, stop injecting aluminum so they have learning disabilities, and don’t accept gov has right to trample over ppl’s rights when the constitution forbids it. You are not understanding the betrayal of a profession sworn to ‘first do no harm.’ Doctor is accountable to deliver the best care to his patient, not society as a whole, not the cdc, and not gov. This goes for nurses as well, their professional priority is to protect patient’s interest and safety. They are being neutralized from doing so by many unethical influences. It is not a good time for healthcare in America.

Just to clarify again I am, IN NO WAY, justifying these actions IF this is what takes place. I can just see the possible moral dilemma and imaging why it could be possible. I mean look at society. They obviously collectively agree that we, as individuals, are not capable of making our own decisions when it comes to our health/safety. Mandatory health insurance, mandatory seat belts, prohibited herbs, the list of examples goes on and on.

Yes I understand you are just pointing out the situation as it stands and not condoning it. But what I don’t see is your objection to fact these ppl give themselves illegal and unethical powers over citizens’ rights. Most ppl still believe their docs, cdc, gov is acting for their best interest and can’t conceive they are blatantly being deceived about what the risks of vaccines really are, the lack of scientific safety basis for recommendations, and general sloppiness in research and quality control. Inexcusable and unforgivable. Did not mean to bash on you personally.

Completely understandable. Reason I don't object is because this is just an assumption of mine. If we proved it to be the case then I would object.

but the risk of the virus itself usually outweighs this risk of the vaccine itself

This is exactly the point that anti vaxxers contest. By stating this here as a fact without acknowledging the arguments against this so called fact you have massively missed the point of this whole issue. Congratulations. You have done your duty in the service of spreading ignorance today.

I was honestly just commenting on what I think happens and why it makes sense that that I would happen. If it were up to me all data on all risks would be presented backed up by studies and people could make their own choice. However we don't live in a society that believes people are smart enough to make there own choices which should be blatantly obvious to everyone. As a libertarian this is not how I think it should be though at the same time I can see why it would be.

We already have the principle of informed consent which exactly conforms to the principles you have outlined here. We are fighting just to maintain the standard which the medical establishment already purportedly claims to maintain.

This is the best answer I have read about vaccines to date. If 98% of people live 2% die. What do the anti vaccine people look at, the 2% and ignore the 98%.

You talk about a diverse and educated group of ppl and make totally unsupported statements. Do you know scientific studies are largely unreliable? This has been found in a large number of studies reviewed, more than half. Do you know if a study does not support corporate agenda, it is not reported? 50 studies show no benefit, but one does, fda only hears about the one. You may want to rethink your faith on corporate funded studies and captured regulatory agencies. The info is out that they are all compromised.

I mean do you have the mumps right now? Polio ?

Wow, that’s a simplistic defection. I thought you could talk on more scientific terms. Vaccines alone have not delivered us from disease. If you think you can say that based on scientific studies, you’d be wrong. The outbreaks you see of mumps lately are due to vaccine failure, not unvaccinated kids. Shoot’em up with more brain-frying vaccines! That’s your cdc answer.

Choice: have a viral illness with remote chance of serious complications? OR Get a vaccine that may or may not work, that will only work for a few years, that will impede your immune system from acquiring natural, long lasting immunity, that will cause you to shed the virus, infecting ppl around you, that contains debris and heavy metals due to poor production quality controls, that will increase your risk of chronic illness, mental illness and learning disabilities, and even death, that contains known dangerous neurotoxic ingredients that will persist in your body, even your brain, that your gov, doctor, fda and cdc collude to keep you uninformed about.

I’m dying... you’re saying scientific studies are unreliable.... based on a number of studies just stfu. Anti-vax people are killers.

https://ethicalnag.org/2009/11/09/nejm-editor/

it is just that vaccines did not increase of life expectancy so that would be a fallacy.

Actually that trend that people will parrot whatever bullshit they read in a textbook or news magazine as infallible "scientific" proof of their opinions is the most laughable meme.

adjuvants sensitize the immune system to all of the ingredients in a vaccine, such as the peanut oil carrier that isn't listed as an ingredient.

in other words, vaccine cause peanut allergies

and thats just one of the many side effects of vaccines.

and if you knew anything about vaccines, you would know about adjuvants

it would be like listening to some hot shot car mechanic who doesn't know what motor oil is

Peanut oil is used in some injectable medications, those medications have explicit warnings stating they are not to be used in individuals with a peanut allergy. They do not cause peanut allergies.

yeah they do, go read the peanut allergy book

Iink?

https://smile.amazon.com/Peanut-Allergy-Epidemic-Whats-Causing/dp/1616082739/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1518323329&sr=8-6&keywords=peanut+allergies

Isreal has one of the lowest rates of peanut allergies, yet their infant/childhood vaccine schedule is not too far off from the USA.

You don't need to know what a catalytic converter does to feel that driving a car is worthwhile.

OMG. Yeah, buddy. That's really apples-apples. Good luck with your logic.

no, they stood up and clapped.

Actually understanding the purposes and failures of catalytic converters could go a long way towards deterring someone from driving a car.

Educate yourself about aluminium adjuvants in the link below.

http://vaccinepapers.org/category/aluminum/

It's an additive that affects the immunological response to the vaccine (ie. Stimulating T-Cells vs. B-Cells) depending on what the vaccine is trying to accomplish. My guess is you have done no research beyond your antivaxx confirmation biased YouTube circle jerks. I've read plenty of peer reviewed papers on vaccine efficacy and I've studied the natural biological mechanisms vaccines use to create immunity. Actually studied. My B.S. was in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. Now's where you say you won't "defer to authority" while in the same breath you will defer to the authority of the infintesimally small number of antivaxx doctors who have everything to gain from pitiful rubes who believe them.

The authority argument is the biggest piece of contradictory nonsense I have ever heard. Anyone that uses that argument literally cannot cite ANY sources, except for ones they generate COMPLETELY independently. By that logic, only research you do yourself, u/naturalproducer, is citable by to confirm your argument.

A BS? Take a look at this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26948677/?i=2&from=/27908630/related Alum is avidly uptaken when injected and results in accumulation in brain

“Safety concerns largely depend on the long biopersistence time inherent to this adjuvant, which may be related to its quick withdrawal from the interstitial fluid by avid cellular uptake; and the capacity of adjuvant particles to migrate and slowly accumulate in lymphoid organs and the brain, a phenomenon documented in animal models and resulting from MCP1/CCL2-dependant translocation of adjuvant-loaded monocyte-lineage cells (Trojan horse phenomenon). These novel insights strongly suggest that serious re-evaluation of long-term aluminum adjuvant phamacokinetics and safety should be carried out.”

I think your ‘authority’ is debunked.

Lol, any English language journals?

Fyi the bar to publish in a non English journal is way lower. We're talking less impactful papers than PLOSone here

That’s your psyop response? Such weak argument.

Good counter.

Similar effects found in ‘Gulf war syndrome’, if you care to look into it.

I'll admit this is the first I've heard of adjuvant's. I'm certainly no expert on them. A quick search (seriously no digging) says they boost your immune response while providing no immunity themselves. I'm also seeing that some types can keep antigens around longer to help vaccines. Others just cause a stronger immune response directly.

I not sure why lack of knowledge about adjuvants make your pro vaccine coworkers "bootlickers". The ones that keep the antigen around longer only really seem helpful for vaccines as this is in no way helpful for a live virus. The ones boost your immune response directly could have use, but they only would have killed you faster if you had the spanish flu. The spanish flu was deadly because it caused a person's immune system to kill them. It killed mostly healthy people in their prime, and left the young/elderly.

There was a big problem with soldiers coming home from Iraq having terrible symptoms, which some researchers tried to link to adjuvants in a vaccine. Squalene is a wonderful supplement taken orally, but injected directly as an adjuvant, it provoked an immune response that can be disabling, as the body will then attack similar compounds which are found in the human body. It creates an autoimmune disease.

Anyway that's one adjuvant problem I remember.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12127050/

9 out of 10 people one have an opinion of controversial issues as it’s presented in the dialectic.

Most people are stupid by design.

I say, if you can’t adapt, then line up for your shot.

Kindda off topic but what's your opinion of progesterone injections while pregnant

With you dude. What he’s my 5 year old go into anaphylaxis with MMR booster.

Can we talk about delayed vaccinations spread out vs a barrage of them at one time? I have seen kids get very ill with the latest schedules. Some get effected some don’t we know that. The disinformation campaign is stronger then ever but ask your elder pediatrician about the Autism rates now vs 70s 80s vax schedule.

" Notice the strong downvote brigading on this post..."

Maybe because you come off as an insufferable douchebag in your post?

No it's definitely you. That's not brigading you're experiencing, it's just regular old downvoting

"Y-yeah man. No bots. Just good old organic downvotes."

And then everyone clapped and they carried me out on their shoulders yelling “hip hip hooray!”

You belong in r/iamverysmart and need to just go research a bit about vaccines that isn't within your bubble

The authority argument is the biggest piece of contradictory nonsense I have ever heard. Anyone that uses that argument literally cannot cite ANY sources, except for ones they generate COMPLETELY independently. By that logic, only research you do yourself, u/naturalproducer, is citable by to confirm your argument.

Good for you for having the courage to talk about this irl. I do too. We need to speak up. The pro vaccine bullies we encounter on line are not what you will generally encounter irl when you talk about this. IRL people are very amenable to the idea that (shock horror) pharmaceutical companies might use their annual multi million dollar marketing budgets to systematically down play the risks of currently accepted vaccination practices.

This is why I go straight to controversial instead of the front page. The stuff that rustles people is what this subreddit is all about. Thanks OP.

Just goes to show ya...these anti-choice vaccine proponents are anything but scientists...they're bootlickers.

Just like all anti-vaxxers are big brains with advanced medical and scientific knowldege. /s Perhaps it's a surprise, but there are plenty of people who support vaccinations that have done their own research and came to a conclusion different from yours.

Let's talk about research...

• CDC: Vaccines don't cause autism
• [CDC: Vaccine Adjuvants (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html)
• FDA: Common Ingredients in U.S. Licensed Vaccines

Lucija Tomljenovic and Christopher Shaw's studies have plenty of detractors. Which makes their conclusions are, at the very least, controversial. And the paper OP refers to "Aluminum in brain tissue" uses a Tomljenovic and Shaw paper as a reference:

Paediatric vaccines that include an aluminium adjuvant are an indirect measure of infant exposure to aluminium and their burgeoning use has been directly correlated with increasing prevalence of ASD [11].

This is not proven. Here's a piece refuting the conclusions in the study OP refers to:

Exley

I find it pretty galling that OP, who didn't present much in the way of science (and didn't present ANY science when they first wrote the post) calling others anti-science.

People need to decide for themselves which science is better. But they also need to make sure they look at lots of sources not just ones that might fit what they already think.

[removed]

You and I both know that this is nothing more than a rambling set of links, many of which do not come from reliable, unbiased sources. Anyone can post a pile of links. Someone who's actually interested in a discussion would take the time to distill their ideas and post them with supporting data. You know. Like I did.

You're just another anti-vaxxer who's not interested in any arguments to the contrary.

/r/justneckbeardthings

But don't almost all the scientists say anti-vaxx is bad? So the people that listen to scientists are anti-science?

That was because he used the scientific method and his detractors didn't. Pretty sure the scientists of today talking about Vaccines (which is well established science) are using the method. There is a point where continuing to doubt something doesn't make you an outside the box free thinker who's ahead of your time and you just become an unreasonable idiot. And you're comparing yourself to Galileo? Someone thinks highly of themselves...

It's not toxic in those amounts.

The aluminum contained in vaccines is similar to that found in a liter (about 1 quart or 32 fluid ounces) of infant formula. While infants receive about 4.4 milligrams of aluminum in the first six months of life from vaccines, they receive more than that in their diet. Breast-fed infants ingest about 7 milligrams, formula-fed infants ingest about 38 milligrams, and infants who are fed soy formula ingest almost 117 milligrams of aluminum during the first six months of life.

Source

But I'm curious though... When you heroically called out all those people at the office, did you present them with your degree in immunology or virology? Or did you just hit them with some antivaxxx buzzword that you found online?

I think it's funny. Now that you guys have finally let go of the mercury argument (or rather, it was destroyed), you are grasping onto aluminum.

You were right to bring up the Galileo comparison. You're just not Galileo. Like his detractors, you don't understand the science, and you are afraid of what you don't understand, so you vilify and demonize it.

We increasingly have this compound that was not part of any biochemical process on Earth,

What a bunch of bullshit. Aluminum is the third most abundant element on earth, after oxygen and silicon.

Also, Dr Shaw used fake data to push his agenda.

Additionally, The WHO thoroughly dismantled his paper.

So... Can I see those degrees now?

So you're just going to gloss over the fact that you are citing work that has been debunked due to the outright falsification of data? And then you want me to prove why the overwhelming consensus of science is right, and your disproven conspiracy theory is wrong?

That's not how this works. You made the claim that the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines are dangerous. Now, you get to prove that claim.

So go ahead. Prove it.

Not almost all. All.

I'm sure there's at least one scientist who buys into that shit. You can always find some loony to back something no matter how bat-shit it is.

I feel the best eye opener is a discussion about the CDC recommended recombinant flu vaccine. I ask my doctor about it every time I go in, and it breaks down my nurse's brainless blurb about how important getting a flu shot is.

Is it not interesting they would rather prescribe Tamiflu after getting symptoms than working a little to get the most effective vaccine?

Polio > stupidity

Just some flu vaccine facts

Flu vaccine makes flu more life threatening with only 10% chance of even providing any protection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21880755/ Flu Vaccination hampers the development of virus-specific CD8(+) T cell responses. (Natural immune response is suppressed. )

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20614424/ Flu vaccine studies reviewed and found it provided— “... modest time off work and had no effect on hospital admissions or complication rates. Inactivated vaccines caused local harms and an estimated 1.6 additional cases of Guillain-Barré Syndrome per million vaccinations. The harms evidence base is limited.”

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1778/455098 Those who were vaccinated for flu were 5x more likely to get sick of flu or other infections.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/01/17/1716561115 Vaccinated ppl who got the flu had higher than usual virus ‘shedding’, so they could the spread flu by JUST breathing around others, not the usual sneezing/coughing required.

What's an adjuvant?

This does not even address the very substantial risks of ‘adjuvants’. Flu vaccine multi-dose still contains mercury (Thimerosal). All the others contain Aluminum. Adjuvants are ingredients in the vaccine to enhance immune response to the microbe.

Wow I've never seen anyone not affiliated with politics or religion embarrass themselves so confidently, lol

What a heavily downvoted, HIGHLY commented post ..

also, veterinarians are hip to adjuvants and lately I've heard they try to avoid them when possible. they give vaccinations in limbs rather than shoulders/hips, now, since vaccination location has high correlation with cancerous tumors. Easier to amputate a paw than a shoulder.

What's the effect of ruebella in the brain?

Excellent post!

And how many doctors or scientists are anti vax?

Weird that the people most educated on the subject support vaccinations, and people who don't (conspiracy tards) don't 🤔

Aluminum could do whatever to the brain, doesn’t matter. If you know anything, and I mean anything, about basic chemistry, you know that chemicals behave differently when combined with other chemicals

Like table salt. Table salt is 50 percent sodium, and 50 percent chloride. Chloride is incredibly deadly even in very small amounts, and sodium is so volatile that it can explode if you even spill it. But you put sodium and chloride together? They make ordinary, harmless table salt.

So no, all those “crazy chemicals” you hear about in vaccines (most of which are unfounded) don’t mean ANYTHING. Educate yourself

Aluminun is an element ( atomic number 13 ) not a compound molecule... Why don't you read some papers about the effects of Aluminun in the human brain instead of "educating" people with idiotic "facts"?

Most people are regurgitators, who never take the time to formulate opinions for themselves from empirical evidence. This is why people are easily swayed by popular narratives spread by popular figures.

Yep. And because they say vaccines are inherently safe, they do very few long term toxicity studies.

" Experimental evidence also shows that simultaneous administration of as little as two to three immune adjuvants can overcome genetic resistance to autoimmunity. In some developed countries, by the time children are 4 to 6 years old, they will have received a total of 126 antigenic compounds along with high amounts of aluminum (Al) adjuvants through routine vaccinations. According to the US Food and Drug Administration, safety assessments for vaccines have often not included appropriate toxicity studies because vaccines have not been viewed as inherently toxic."

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0961203311430221

Do you know if any research has been done on toxicity levels of injectible aluminum?

Yeah, like was that a joke? Very exciting seeing someone actually go read about it.

So? Why would you believe anything the government tells you?? You dumb or something?

I wouldn't call him not a piece of shit

Keep fighting the good fight!

Rofl wut.

You do realize I read through peer reviewed articles religiously guy.

I'll give you something to read instead of that crap you tried to submit to me

Vaccines are absolutely fine, I don't think you know what your talking about, at all.

You're using the wrong your.

He's an engineer. He's a scientist in the same way a medical doctor is. He doesn't do science, but he's learned some of the discoveries brought about by people who do science to be able to apply it to real world systems. That said, he's pretty science illiterate which is why he stopped posting on Twitter, real scientists were telling him he was wrong about shit. I wish different fields had different science spokespeople instead of Niel Degrass Tyson trying to educate people on GMO's because "well he's a scientist". Can we get a famous Biochemist on TV?

I'm not particularly concerned.

Dude the polio virus is for the most part dormant in those who carry it, even those not vaccinated against it. It has NOTHING to do with the vaccine. Weak bodies become affected, not infected bodies. This whole vaccine theory is a big story they indoctrinated us into during school. Natural herbs and detox methods are much more effective (and thus less profitable) if done in a preventative way according to the time, place, and circumstance.

Why is that embarrassing? How do you think people dress in a research lab? (Hint: it's usually jeans and a shirt, like what I wear anyway) I'm also still in grad school but hey at least I get paid to teach undergrad courses. BTW I think your math is off. Average master plumber makes $48,000/yr and the top %10 make $79,000/yr. Average salary for someone with a graduate degree in Biophysics is around $100,000/year and the top earners make over $200,000/year.

Yes I understand you are just pointing out the situation as it stands and not condoning it. But what I don’t see is your objection to fact these ppl give themselves illegal and unethical powers over citizens’ rights. Most ppl still believe their docs, cdc, gov is acting for their best interest and can’t conceive they are blatantly being deceived about what the risks of vaccines really are, the lack of scientific safety basis for recommendations, and general sloppiness in research and quality control. Inexcusable and unforgivable. Did not mean to bash on you personally.

Its called having a family medical history. I was born with asthma but not heart disease, theres a chance I could develop a heart problem or even cancer. In the end its not like you can blame vaccines for hereditary diseases that you may or may not have from birth or develop later on.

I have a family member with type 1 diabetes and a friend with depression, but that's it to my knowledge. Also to my knowledge, none of them have or have had Polio.

https://ethicalnag.org/2009/11/09/nejm-editor/

I'm sure there's at least one scientist who buys into that shit. You can always find some loony to back something no matter how bat-shit it is.