yeah that interview has been very, very odd

She just said that the alarms and evacuation started before the shooting started. It's still early so I don't believe anything on the news. But that's straight from a student.

Shooter prob set off alarms prior to shooting

Someone could have pulled the alarm after seeing someone with a gun, before any shots were fired. It's also possible the people reporting that the alarm happened before shots were fired just didn't hear shots from the other side of the school.

News is saying the shooter pulled the alarm before shooting.

That makes a lot of sense. Gets everyone in the hallways and unprepared for an actual emergency because they'll think it's a drill.

How would they know that? Witness? Video?

Apparently. They really don't have to list their sources so we are supposed to take em at their word

Wonder if shooter pulled the fire alarm to get everyone out in the halls maybe?

News confirmation that the shooter pulled the alarm.

[removed]

Fucked up. I'm glad the teachers did their jobs and kept the kids in the rooms (obviously for the most part).

My brother said he was listening to the police scanner and the police detained the suspect (I won't give out his name) and he planted 2 bombs at the school. They also said immediately after that he was watching bomb videos online last night. How on earth do they know that as soon as they detain him?

Big brother is always watching

Just not watching enough to prevent this from happening. Weird.

As if prevention is their goal..

Always the big pink elephant in the fucking room that.

it's still more gathering than analyzing. Don't worry just give it about another two decades and every step you make will be processed in real time by some form of AI.

Don't worry just give it about another two decades two years and every step you make will be processed in real time by some form of AI.

FTFY

Might have been in the shooter's phone's browser history.

Ding ding ding

You should give us his name before they scrub his Facebook

Websites already have things like his Instagram screenshotted.

Links?

Saw this one.

He has all the meme guns and sights.... Interesting

tons of COD influence? Makarov is part of his old IG name

That controversial no russian mission in the airport, right?

Wanted the shotgun with a red dot just like out of COD as well.

Isn't it bad to give the shooter a lot of attention? Aren't these the type of people that seek the attention they get after committing this act? If it was, the people commenting on his social media profile are making it worse because all those comments will probably be looked at by similar people with bad intentions. Imagine a trend where they plan to leave a social media account with photos similar in style. (Showing off a weapon of some kind) Most likely will be preserved since nothing on the internet really disappears. Immortalized on the web.

You or others can try all you want to hope names of shooters are kept out of the news, but the simple fact is that this is public knowledge that everyone has a Right to know.

The name being released is inevitable. I'm talking about the flood of comments he has on his social media.

It's just not feasible in this day and age to try and suppress info related to these types of incidents. People can certainly tell people not to give these people attention, but that's really about all that is going to happen. It's similar to the Streisand Effect. Call it morbid fascination, but people have a thirst for knowledge, no matter how dark it is.

I'm aware of the Streisand Effect and I agree it will never stop.

That's against Reddit's policy, and will get you swiftly banned.

To release the name of a school shooter?

They get a number of suspects and already have people looking into them behind the scenes.

They look at his Youtube account that keeps track of everything you search for and watch.

Maybe the cops asked him?

I can confirm, it was about 23 mins into the scanner broadcast I was listening to, heard the exact same thing, told a colleague cops said 2 bombs planted, he was on YouTube last night learning to make bombs and that they had his chat logs.

I said, if that is the case, all's the law had to do was hit a button and bang all info was retrieved on the spot within that quick of a time, it was a very scratchy chin moment for me.

Just out of curiosity, how did you get onto the scanner audio so fast? I wasn't able to catch it until 45 minutes in. Alerts on your phone?

4chan posted it almost immediately a direct link.

They probably confiscated his phone/laptop/tablet and went through his browser history.

5 minutes after he was caught? Sure!

Maybe he recorded himself watching recorded videos.

Bring me the man and I will find you the crime

just heard a mom say there was suppose to be an activate shooter drill, so her son din't know if it was real or a drill at first.

I participated in an active shooter drill with local police when I was in high school. We did it on a Saturday at the school from roughly 8:00am - 12:00pm. No nonsense, cops bought us lunch and we all got extra credit.

Find it odd they would have an AS drill during an actual school day. I’m not saying they didn’t but that doesn’t seem like a reasonable thing to do with an entire school filled. For reference, we did a 5-600 student school with about 10 cops and 20 students flipping roles after each try (I played a shooter/victim/parent/teacher on different occasions). Back then it was super fun though.

I mean, they do fire drills with entire schools. Why wouldn't they with an active shooter?

What's the point of such a drill if:

A) Only a fraction of people participate in it

B) The simulation is unrealistic, with the building only being a fraction full

???

We just did a lock down drill a couple weeks ago at my high school. The teacher locked the doors and kept teaching, pretty realistic if I say so myself.

the correlation between drills and actual shits storms happening are to common in my opinion.

I had an active shooter drill at school THIS WEEK. not saying there's a correlation.

When i was in high school we had a couple of different scenario lock downs, one being an active shooter where the fire dept played the role of the aggressors. That was done during a school day with a school size of about 3000. Think it just depends on the school system and what their state/county requires for training.

AS drill during an actual school day.

Why would they bring students in on a saturday to practice? It makes more sense to do it during the week when everyone is already present and can practice.

Practice for law enforcement without interrupting school. Where I am from, neighboring cities do these things together because during real emergencies they are expected to lend a hand however they can.. This is Florida though...

Fair enough. This is my only experience with this subject. This would have been 2004ish. Thanks for the info. I was told at the time that we (student council) were doing it on the weekend so it could be controlled with a small group. The fear was the kids would act out and it wouldn’t reflect an accurate scenario.

That's why our drills (2008 era?) were surprise. Even the teachers didn't know. Teachers were barricading the doors with bookshelves, etc. thinking it was real.

For the first responders, a practice drill with just a handful of willing students sounds good, but for actual teacher/student drills, surprise during the week.

Hmm same thing happened on 9/11 with the hijacked planes

And sandy hook

And the Boston bombing

tiny grin

Yup. It’s all real shady

Student probably planned shooting as drill was going on, so no one instantly knew what was going on forreal

The world is not fucking flat

The government tells nothing but the truth.

Only one of the two comments above are true.

The government sometimes tells the truth. Not everything is a conspiracy. The government sometimes lies. Some events are conspiracies.

Wow i had no idea.

Your comment seemed to suggest as much.

A statement only suggests what the reader wants it too.

Do you know what website you're on? Most people here have a hard enough time understanding posts without sarcasm.

/r/im14andthisisedgy

Not really. But nice meme.

No, really. It's pretty much exactly like that.

The suspect was taken into a police car standing and walking. Then about 10 minutes or so later, is barely able to stand up and being put on a stretcher and loaded into an ambulance. This was shown on MSNBC from about 4pm to 4:30pm. Strange turn of events. Seemed just fine being loaded into car, then minutes later being loaded onto a stretcher.

Drugs maybe?

adrenaline?

Might have been related to the adrenaline comedown and/or the cops beating him up a bit in the car.

Or it might of been related to the cops beating the shit out of him?!?!?

I wouldn't care if they did

I would.

IDk, you shoot some people, you get your ass beat.

Yeah, that's fine. Call me crazy, I just don't like the idea of police officers being given free reign to carry out those ass beatings. What a scary precedent that attitude presents. No wonder our cops are out of control.

I don't think you're crazy. I just think abot something like that happening in my kids/grandkids school and I would have a very hard time restraining myself. It is s shitty precedent but I cannot feel empathy for that PoS.

I understand, and I would feel the same way. But we pay police officers, and give them lots of power, precisely so that we can rely on them to carry out justice fairly, without emotion. It's not their job to exact revenge on other citizens who are constitutionally protected from ANY punishment until they are convicted in a court of law. That's the country I want to live in, but I may be naive to think we could ever go back to that (or that we were every really there at all).

I agree, I was just emotional above. I would really like to see police receive the same level/amount of training as our military.

We see how emotions can quite easily be used against us, and harnessed for nefarious agendas. This is what happened after 9/11, just on a much larger scale.

You can't be fuckin serious?

Why not?

Those animals are out of control as is.

How?

I'm guessing you're not in the US. Nvm then.

I am from the US. Born and raised, and proud of it. Now explain why you think our military is full of animals?

The cops are the animals and you want to give them military training to further their terroristic views. Conversation over, it's no use arguing against a nationalist.

It’s fine to admit you have no decent argument other than the over-used “this one cop killed a person that may or may not have deserved it”. Using that argument would be like me saying that the one idiot who claims that lizards run the government makes all conspiracy theorists like a group of complete retards. You can’t judge an entire group based off of the actions of a few. Also, police and military are constantly doing things that should be worth mentioning that benefit the country but it wouldn’t fit into the medias agenda to publicize that.

Dude, get off the high horse. In a perfect world your argument would make sense, but the world is far from perfect so dont pretend it is. I hope they did beat on that MF.

Okay.

All the more reason to do so. Police don't serve to execute justice, they're supposed to serve to maintain the peace, and apprehend people to bring them to justice.

What if the cops got the wrong guy and beat the crap out of him? The whole point of the court system is to determine if the person is actually guilty and make sure you have the right person before dispensing any punishment.

Especially if they had the wrong person...

For real, and that's not uncommon after mass shootings, we just tend to forget about that catch-and-release suspects.

20 fucking kids were just killed in school and you feel bad for the police, who probably have kids at the same fucking school, beat the shit out of him? Jesus Christ fuck off

Take a breath, and re-read my post. I didn't say I "felt bad for the police". Calm the fuck down.

Blow me, asshole.

He has a problem with ignoring constitutional rights and due process. Law > Emotion

Imagine you were were one of those cops and had a kid in that school? I mean.. humans are human, cops or not. That guys gonna catch a hell of a beating

They aren’t given free reign to do this. But in a situation like this nobody is going to care.

Okay, hi Crazy. Call me Rick

Aspiring Manuel Norega pulled over in Texas: “He had a suitcase full of $100s, obviously a dealer so we seized the evidence.”

Some poorly dressed dude a year later with $500 in his pocket. “We suspected he was dealing so we confiscated the money for our margerita party”

Oh the horror! If a man who has just murdered students suffers some bodily pain then such a fate might befall other mass murderers. Could you live in a world where mass murderers suffered such pain??

Seriously, am against cops giving out beatings, but if the chance he got beaten bugs you much you need to recalibrate your conscience.

I feel like, when they are beating him, they are regular people. Not cops for a moment. God knows that is a non cop had the chance, we would all do the same

That is not how our justice system should work.

agreed, I was upset when IO typed it

I totally understand.

What happened to due process? Innocent until proven guilty?

One day, they're going to frame you for something and no one will believe it because they'll just accept that you did it without taking your side of the story. Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

Nah I'm with you. It's important to at least go through the trial and conviction, even if there's little doubt, even if just for the ritual reinforcement of due process as a principle.

Normally I would agree so we could learn and prevent this from happening again. However it sounds like the word was out on this kid being a threat and yet nothing prevented this from happening. My nephew was in this school today and luckily he made it out alive. My stomach turns thinking about the families who have lost loved ones today due to this piece of absolute shit's actions. I think of the panic , fear and pain he caused victims today. The victims families grief and suffering for years to come. That's when I disagree with you. That's when I start hoping this kid dies very ,very painfully and very, very slowly and just when he thinks it's over and he can finally rest , they wake him up and start the process all over again. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I hope he rots in hell.

They should just hogtie him and give him to the 34 parents whose children were killed.

Let them sort that fucker out.

I know. I feel like I'm in a teen sub.

He should've been beaten to almost death then let his fellow inmates finish the job

A guy just murdered by 15+ kids and you're concerned with the cops beating him? Fuck you

You shoot up a school the cops who arrest you beat he shit out of your midsection. That’s just how life works kiddo

That is not how things work in a civilized society. Anders Breivik killed 80 children and the police didn't beat the snot out of him. If a suspect is walking into police custody healthy he shouldn't be going to the hospital 30 minutes later because the cops extracted some impromptu revenge. Violence begets more violence.

maybe if he told the police he was a sovereign citizen they wouldve let him go

half agree. Ideally that shouldn't happen, but i won't lose sleep if it did.

Or an opium suppository. That's a thing.

this is def what it is

might have might have might have

He did not seem fine getting loaded into the car. He could barely hold his head up.

Totally. He was slumped over and needed to be held up for most of the search.

Maybe the suspect drugged himself? In the live footage of the suspect being patted down and loaded in the back of the police car, an officer pulls out a bag, white in color, and places the bag on the back of the car. Soon after, another near by cop seems to either move the bag or places it in his own pocket. The video feed cuts right when they pull something else out of the suspect's pocket.

Also, if you look at the kids eyes in that picture of him looking up while he’s handcuffed, the kid had some SERIOUS bags all around his eyes like he hadn’t slept in days. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was coke or maybe even meth.

Good observation!

https://ibb.co/itgR6S is this actually his instagram??? cos he has a pic of a definition search of "allahu akbar" I ask if it's his instagram cos I thought more people would have pointed this out

Sounds like they beat the shit out of him

Sedated maybe?

Murderous psychos can be notoriously difficult to control...

That's basically Hollywood. You can't just go randomly drugging people: the ones that act fast enough also have to be carefully calculated to the individual, or all you do is kill them. The people who work in the field exclusively make some of the biggest dollars or any medical job because of how particular it is.

Geodone and versed IM with a huge overdose risk. Also, when chemically sedating someone you aren't too worried about overdosing as that is reversible. I'm not saying these were used, just to point out it isn't some high level med math, just draw, stab, inject, wait.

Oh kill him? Oops...

Probably different people.

Actually I think it was adrenaline probably. They showed it again and he didn't look as strong as I first thought getting into the car. I highly doubt it was a different person.

are there any videos of this floating around now?

Perhaps he was injured, nobody noticed, and high on adrenaline only to come down and it to become apparent that he is seriously injured.

I don't see a problem here.

Police brutality. What else?

Since the school had 3000 students it only makes sense the countys sheriff officers kids go to that school so you can imagine if one of the fatalities (one of them was a sheriffs kid) and the brotherhood of law enforcement allows them to let this enraged dad near the shooter i bet there was a stern talking to at the back of the cruiser.

IV antipsychotic

these interview are so fucking weird

It's a weird situation.

Just so you know, what you guys are doing here is shameful and disgusting.

What the hell are you talking about

I think they're talking about the people who are gonna call this a hoax, and I agree with them on that.

While I'll agree calling it a hoax is a bit far fetched. Too many lives ended too quickly. However, this is r/conspiracy and it would be even weirder if we didn't do our due diligence to have a grasp on the story. It is completely plausible this is a false flag(2nd amendment, isis, etc.) I'd say it is best to speculate after we have more information though. But thats just my opinion.

/r/conspiracy has changed.

it is unfortunate.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You in the wrong neighborhood, bruh. Take that shit to r/im14amdthisisdeep

Now ok that is weird. See thats something we need to keep on record.

In all fairness, in the middle of what’s supposed to be a drill might seem to be the perfect time for a kid to carry out an attack.

I know the obvious argument is it isn’t, because of police presence, but it would definitely catch most of the victims off guard like a motherfucker.

How did he know there would be a drill though..he was an ex student right?

That one's easy. He likely follows ex classmates on social media and they mentioned it.

second student perhaps giving information? Maybe unintentionally but still something to think about.

My son's school has a public calendar that shows all their events... including drills. I wonder if that will change.

I live in Parkland and word is that the person is Nicholas Cruz. Can't find much on him

"stoneman" lol

Whenever I see "Breaking News" I go to YouTube to see if there is already a video claiming that it is a hoax. There is already one.

I did the same thing. OMG that guy is totally unhinged. I couldn't watch the whole thing, it was just too cringeworthy.

The narratives began being pushed by a lot of different interests, within minutes of the news talking about it. I'm not looking forward to the next two weeks of every sick opportunist trying to figure out to best milk this tragedy to advance their own interests.

Liberal politicians have already started tweeting their oppresive seize our guns globalist agenda.

Like who?

That's because people claim all news is fake or some sort of conspiracy .

You don't have to go to YouTube, you can just come to this sub for hoax claims.

This is what happens under the great dumbing down of America.

I saw a cell video from inside the school that was taken down but it was fucking scary shit. What a horrible thing to do.

Keep in mind this might not be the actual person but on the r/news this is the instagram profile pic of the rumored suspect.

https://i.imgur.com/GoD7gm7.png

Accounts not there anymore

I'm sure they will take down everything they can if they haven't already. I saved the video and every image to my computer like I did with OCT1.

Good looking out! Let’s hope where this all goes

another insta

https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov/

It's already been deleted.

He had a Trump hat as his pfp and some pictures of guns and dead, bloody frogs.

Interesting. Cue Dems vying for gun control.

Also cue t_d claiming that it’s photoshopped propaganda/false flag/shooter is actually an Islamist militant antifa member

You miss pellet r/conspiracy but I guess they are synonyms as of 2016isb

nah its muslims, they say he followed isis

Yeah. What a fucking bunch of idiots for wanting discuss a solution to all of these conservatives shooting the place up.

Aaaannd.... Your comment is just as stupid as the one you replied to. Congratulations, you're both biased and looking to point fingers instead of finding a solution.

In the end, you can't stop crazy. The key is to try to keep weapons out of the hands of crazy, but there's no great solution to it. You ban guns, they'll use bombs. You ban bomb making materials, they'll use swords. You ban swords, they'll use knives. You ban knives, they'll use acid. You ban acid, they'll use sticks. You ban sticks, they'll use rocks.

Better background checks is a good start.

A better start is to address mental health in this country.

They won't have that discussion either because then they wouldn't be able to justify taking away access to healthcare.

Well we kinda already had that discussion. Trump signed an EC last year that removed regulations preventing people with mental illness to purchase weapons.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

My comment wasn't stupid. Watch. Within the next one week, you will see major Democrats arguing that we need more gun control. I'm not against gun control. I'm just saying That it will happen.

And tom. the sun will rise in the East...

I've heard he had a trump hat but haven't been able to find the picture of it.

I have seen him with a communism shirt on?

Real conspiracy is why wasn't anything done after the multiple people reported this guy and he was banned from even bringing a backpack into the school because they knew he was crazy?

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214215135/https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov

Archive, anyone?

That is fake

Based on what? Your loyalty to the president?

I'm not a trump supporter.

Oh nevermind then dude. What makes you think it’s shopped?

This is his, that's his face.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214212957/https://www.instagram.com/cruz_nikolas/

This isn’t the_d...proof or GTFO

What is the the d?

There are NO pics of the shooters face, and the other gram has his actual face.

The Donald

This is his Instagram dumbass

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214212957/https://www.instagram.com/cruz_nikolas/

Videos that don't show anything other than people screaming and gun fire. Have yet to see anything conclusive to show this wasn't staged and folks are just reacting to sounds.

Here we go again...Are they going to ship in the same doctors and nurses from Las Vegas to pretend to work on the 60 people with bullet wounds? Or are we adding a few more hundred people to the conspiracy payroll?

Vegas was a real shooting. Not convinced this is yet. Simple as that. I thought this was a conspiracy subreddit? Not a place where folks believe whatever the MSM tell them.

It is. It's also a place for debate. And I will continue to debate against people who think any of these shootings don't have real victims. There is no good evidence for those theories, and there's never a reason to jump to that conclusion.

Manchurian candidate sure. Drugged patsy like I see a few people suggesting? Plausible. 60+ fake victims who will be seen by thousands of people and hundreds of medical professionals? Not really worth discussing.

It feels to be that this whole line of thinking is a distraction narrative to have people arguing in circles about nonsense. Same with the flat earthers who invaded around the same time.

Same - seems like hype.

If there was a good video you guys would say it's "too good so it's obviously a fake."

No, there weren't very many "good videos" as you put it at Vegas but that was real.

The main one that comes to mind is this.

Yup, fake AF.

Lol, thanks for proving my point.

Open your eyes. That Virginia Reporter shooting is one of the most easily debunked "shootings" out there.

That was my friend you dimwitted fuck.

Cool, give her a call then! She's on a beach sipping some drinks with a new name and lots of cash! I've seen plenty of people shot and killed on YouTube and the one thing they all have in common is they continue to scream bloody murder for several seconds after they've been shot numerous times in the chest from point blank range. Watch the two videos that exist, they were different takes. It was fake!

I really wish I could give her a call. Hell, every time I send a SnapChat she's one of the first names I pass. It sucks.

It takes some serious gall to say that to someone who lost a friend. This isn't worth my time. I hope you find peace somehow.

K. Have fun pretending to be friends with crisis actors!

See if/how trump handles this. Second profile has him wearing a MAGA hat. If it was a brown guy or a leftist we know he'd have a comment about it.

Well since he's a registered democrat voter. And follows isis on twitter...

Trumps fault!

No one said it is Trumps fault or anything like it. Pointing out it will be interesting to see if/how he comments about this based on his previous comments in other shootings and events and who did them.

Lots of twists and turns.

Mexican but has MAGA hat

US Army shit in one but then Arabic in the others.

Lots of misdirection.

He is insulting Muslims in that post with Arabic. He is showing the meaning of Allah Akbar and then says "now we know what the sand durkas are saying when they say allah Akbar." Sand durka is a derogatory term for Muslim. It's basically like saying "sand nigger." Durka is a slang germ for a middle eastern gas station owner/attendant.

'Durka Durka Durka'. I thought that was created by the Team America movie.. TIL

you called?

Where did trunmp use the term "Sand Durka"
I am no fan of that "man" but theres no what he even would say that.

He's talking about the shooter, not Trump.

I'm told all the time that trump has supporters that aren't white now that one does something horrid I'm being told its impossible for someone with Mexican heritage to own a MAGA hat?

I'm not accusing you of saying that im just speaking in general.

How is he a "registered Democrat??

He can't even fuckin vote yet. You're a straight up liar. This is why you cannot take anything a trump supporting account says seriously. Goddamn

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/breaking-dont-let-maga-hat-fool-hispanic-shooter-nicolas-de-jesus-cruz-registered-democrat/

links to the actual voter registration db... fake too tho right?

His name is spelled with a "k" - "Nikolas de Jesus Cruz"

The voter record gateway pundit is claiming to be his is "Nicolas De Jesus Cruz"

Well considering they're two different names.... Yeah im gonna say so lol

You keep posting that link and insisting that he was a dem, are you ever going to acknowledge that the names are different?

The kid was 19. If you read any article posted since he was ID'ed, you'd know this. This is why you cannot take anything an account that bashes people because of their voting choices says seriously.

His name is spelled with a "k" - "Nikolas de Jesus Cruz"

The voter record gateway pundit is claiming to be his is "Nicolas De Jesus Cruz"

Yeah, I just saw a post about that a little while and forgot about my comment, or else I would've corrected it myself.

Thanks for calling me out though. The facts are important no matter if they help or hurt your argument.

Well since he's a registered democrat voter.

Source?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/breaking-dont-let-maga-hat-fool-hispanic-shooter-nicolas-de-jesus-cruz-registered-democrat/

His name is spelled with a "k" - "Nikolas de Jesus Cruz"

The voter record gateway pundit is claiming to be his is "Nicolas De Jesus Cruz"

You should probably update your comment now that your source has updated itself to say this is not true.

Funny how you deleted your comment that linked to a now-debunked report saying he was a democrat, but you haven't deleted this comment yet

oh you mean the fake image that's been passed around of NICHOLAS Cruz, not NIKOLAS Cruz? The one being passed around to push a false narrative?

Holy shit Trump supporters have been on a fucking tear these last two years.

An immigrant kills a football player in a DUI? HUGE FUCKING NEWS KICK THEM OUT.

A MAGA hat-wearing Trumpist mows down 17+ schoolchildren. "Nothing you can do folks".

Press F to send “Thoughts and prayers”

He'd be the first trump supporter I've ever seen caught wearing a communist T-shirt in public...

https://imgur.com/a/fM4Mt

Maybe Trump supporters are sometimes not the brightest? They follow a guy that is on record lieing nearly every day. A guy that is so inconsistent you can find for every stance he has a quote from him saying the opposite Why are you surprised by a Trump supporter doing something condradictonary? Seems pretty consistent to Trump, doesn't it?

No not really because I'm not a generalizing asshole and rely on hard evidence to support my opinions rather than hot air and a personal grudge which was instilled by pure American propaganda...

Source your opinion and you may not look like such a tool for the establishment..

Tell me why you think at its surprising that 20 old mentally deranged Trump fan might by a T-Shirt with the sickle on it. Makes sense to me. Hes a moron that is inconsistent, same as Trump. If Trump can do inconsistent stupid stuff everyday why don't you think one of his fans could do as well.

Who buys a maga hat and wears it despite being a dem? Are you objective?

It is far more likely a stupid Trump fan wore a communits T-Shirt without knowing jack shit than a "antifa dem guy" buying a Maga hat. You know that right?

Actually, if we’re gonna compare behavior relations, it’s more along the lines of Hilary Clinton.

Well I think nobody beat Trump in being contradictonary. Also don't see how a sane person could deny that.

I don’t see how a sane person could agree with 99% of the shit you’ve said in this thread.

How are you supposed to know what a sane person thinks, you think Trump is not more flip-flopping than others, this disqualifies from the group of sane people. Sorry. Every single policy in existence changed for him, the only one which did not is cutting his own taxes and the death tax, that is the only thing he ever wanted. Even was Friends with Clintons his whole life no he leads the charge against them, then he says no charges, then he says clinton is the deep state against him. You nutjobs. Most contradictonary person in history. But maybe you don't even know about his "older" views before he found that GOP base is simpler and easy to sway. Also talks all the time about make american higher american and has companies employing nearly only foreigners, makes his stuff overseas. Not contradicting just smart. lmao you guys.

No one believes the republican voters are easier to sway when the democrats chose Hillary Clinton as their candidate lmao

He literally switched his stances on guns, healthcare, abortion towards the GOP base and won the presidency. Are you really that dense? He looked what GOP base wants, repeated it and was voted in despite saying the opposite years ago. I am dead serious, you can't be that dense.

We acting like Hillary doesn’t get her position in things based on computerized algorithms?

I love how you not even addressed the like 20 example I have given of Trump literally doing the opposite of what he said priviously. You see those example and know they are true. It is not even possible to deny them because this moron tweets his opinions out so you can even put two totally condradicting opinions against each other.

Not one example was contested by you not one. Have a nice evening buddy.

You heard about the gas tax? You know who pays this? Poor people and middle class. He cut rich people taxes and now raises yours. Best thing about this is the smugness that will follow. While guys like you will delete their reddit accounts your real life opinions will echo until you get old. Everybody will know how easy it was to fool you.

I’m not rich and my taxes got cut tho? Quit being silly

How do you know? The tax cuts don’t take effect until next year.

They take affect 2018

They take affect 2018. I’ve already gotten more money back each paycheck cuz of less withholding and with the standard deduction doubling I’ll have a nice big chunk of non taxed income back.

Your standard deduction changing doesn’t give you an accurate idea of what you’ll be paying out in taxes next year. You paid more in this year and got a refund. You could pay less in and get a smaller refund. Regardless, the tax cut wasn’t directed to help you or most of us. They were designed to save millionaires and billionaires millions and millions. Taking the bread crumbs that have indirectly landed on your floor and thanking the PTB is so fucking sad.

Found pelosi. If you don’t want your crumbs I’ll take them gladly. And all things equal the standard deduction doubling absolutely gives me an accurate idea of what I’ll be paying lol

“However, the plan also gets rid of the personal and dependent exemptions. That allows each person — the tax filer, their spouse, their dependents — to make $4,050 of their income exempt. Taxpayers took 293 million exemptions in 2015, amounting to just over 1.1 trillion dollars. As a result, the math gets a little harder on families here: gaining $600 and losing the taxed portion of $4,050 per child, essentially. For larger families, the hike on the standard deduction isn’t going to wipe out those losses.” Walt Hickey 538

Furthermore - the state tax and local tax exemption is disqualified if you use the standard deduction. There is a lot more to all of the changes and how they effect individual taxes but I’m not writing a novel.

See, take from here, add to there, unless you’re a tax expert (and they can only speculate to a degree) you have no clue how it’ll pan out.

I understand how it works I’m trying to tell you it is saving me money but I’m running out of ways to do so. I’m not even sure what your point is?

Well I suppose if he only hires foreigners that puts the lid on him being racist. You’re gonna have to come with something heavier than “Trump flip-flops you guys are idiots.”

Well I suppose if he only hires foreigners that puts the lid on him being racist. You’re gonna have to come with something heavier than “Trump flip-flops you guys are idiots.”

Sometimes I wonder if folks like you even try to present good arguments.

Take your argument compeltely apart and take a look and see how nonsensical it is.

A person can be several things at the same time and this person will have priorities. A racist person that is even more greedy will higher whatever is the cheapest that doesn't make him less racist this just shows his priorities. That's why he says hire and build american and doesn't do it. His priority is his wealth.

You are welcome I solved your conundrum how a racist person can hire foreigners.

I never thought he was racist. So sorry that you wasted your time. And speaking of priorities, my checks have had more money lately. Not something that was prioritized by any Democrat.

You’re English is so bad I wonder what kind of grasp you could possibly have on American politics. I’m not trying to have an argument. It’s just easy shooting down your bullshit talking points.

I actually don't really think he is racist. Such thinking does't work well with his persona as I see it. I think he doesn't care.

Well you sure ain’t flying high lol

Weird. If you switch trump with Hillary or Bernie this still makes sense. Almost like it’s asinine to try to group people together based on political beliefs

I don't see how it makes sense if you switch. People changing their opinion is not same as dropping what 100 tweets? and then doing the very same you condemned and all this nonsense. Like I said before. No person was ever more flip-flopping than Trump.

He was pro ---> against like every issue ever.

Literally shit talked the president for playing golf than played more golf and this times 100x with a multitude of different issues. If he wouldn't be the president you would consider him the psycho uncle type.

Just admit your bias and I will accept that as a valid response. If not, this is very flawed and inaccurate.

No. Admit yours that you seriously think Trump is not the most condratitonary flip-flopping politician in a high office ever. Do it. Admit it. Admit that his flip flopping is near psycho level. For every major policie change in a "normal lieing" politician you can respond with like ten lol.

Every issue.

• Guns

• Abortion

• Healthcare

• Foreign policy

Not even counting the daily insanities like saying he will never take vacation then literally being the most freetime president ever, with starting to work at near noon after watching TV for hours like a kid that has summer break. I mean you could blast the 10k character limit with a post detailing all ridiculous things he says.

Honestly dude, say it out loud so we have it black on white, say Trump didn't contradict himself more than other politicans. Do it, type it out and read it yourself. Have some dignity and stop licking assholes for a while. Still can't believe he shittalked Obama for golfing and then became the fulltime golfer, he cares so little about the opinions of his cultists he didn't gave a damn how dumb this would look. But yeah compare this with Bernie who for like 5 decades has a pretty straight forward line because he changes his opinon on some stuff, while Trump literally switched to GOP because he thought the voters there are dumber

Does Hillary count as a politician? Orrrr

Yeah go ahead show how she is more flip floppy. Again you can find changes for everybody nobody denies that but you know yourself nobody beats Trump. Hillary changed on gay stuff? Cool Trump changed on everything like 5 times back and forth. Honestly I can't imagine how a more flip floppy president would look. Trump is already a caricature of the flip flop politicians. He is satire.

Say the president is Kenyan? Then say always respect the president and flag and stuff.

Say the president is lazy. Well start work day at 10 and make more holidays

Say president keeps Secret service form family? Do the same

Say president golfs too much? Golf more.

You know we could do this for daaaaayyys.

Iam dead serious Trump is satire. If you would have wrote satire 10 years ago a President would have looked like this. You guys will be laughed at for decades. They will say "well people voted for Trump you never know". People like you who believed he is not flip floppy while literally flip flopping in your face will be used as example of how simple people act.

Btw he was pro choice now against. He is no fan of immigrants overstaying visa and stuff. He married one. Hired them. Is familiy values has three wifes and abused one. Talks about Obama and his kids, prefers golfing over visiting his 10 year old. Is against cutting medi cait then cuts medicait. Shittalked debt increase then increases the debt. Is against the confed flag then is for it. Tells president to not take vacations takes more than him. Shittalks Obama because he gets paid to golf he literally goes to his own resort and lets his entourage pay him. Lmao. Talks about low stamina cuts his stuff short because he is low stamina. Thinks leaking is good ---> hates leaking. Thinks protests are good---> hates protest now. Shittalks hillary for intel stuff then gloats about intel to russian.

You guys ...

Bro lay off the cnn wow I’m embarrassed for you just reading this. Country is doin great. Just relax

You liked the quick example of flip floppy Trump who says everything without any consistency? You like that feeling of knowing that it is true ?

Lowered taxes. Got rid of ocare. Gonna build the wall. Jobs coming back from everywhere. These are the things he promised. You keep worrying about golf Bc cnn aka tmz tells you to. I’ll keep worrying about real things that matter

Lowered taxes. Got rid of ocare. Gonna build the wall. Jobs coming back from everywhere.

Your very first attempt to add any facts to your argument and half of them are dishonest. I asked this already many Trumpists. Why being dishonest? If you are right and Trump is a good leader why lie? The Truth should be your best weapon

Got rid of ocare

Didn't yet. Dishonest

Gonna build the wall

Didn't yet. Dishonest

Jobs coming back from everywhere

Exactly like before under Obama. Dishonest

Lowered taxes

That he did. But you lack the understanding to understand how this is not a good thing for you in the long run.

Why lie? Why be dishonest if your case is valid? Did I lie about Trumps flippy floppy? No, there is no need to lie about stuff like that. But there is need to lie about Trumps performance. To some soul searching and think about this. If lies and manipulation are neccessary you might be on the wrong side.

The word gonna implies it taking place in the future. You’re being silly. Obamacare “tax” is not gonna be I forced so essentially it is over. Will be buried completely soon tho. Country already taking in 50+ more billion this year in tax revenue. How is this bad in the long run?

Country already taking in 50+ more billion this year in tax revenue. How is this bad in the long run?

You asking people for crash courses in economy?

Imagine you are rich self centered person with only rich friends. Now think how is the best way to get richer? Well cutting taxes helps right? But then the people will hate you, right? So you cut theirs too a little bit, you throw them a bone, you are one of them. But keep in mind you are self centered you only care about yourself. What you do now? You get the money back. How? You cut social programms of people who just before got their taxes "cut". But you want more, well so you put some little taxes on gas which are hidden poverty tax because this tax disproportionately targets poor people. You get math? A gas tax is ridiculous high on a poor person in percentage terms. That is a good start. Now what more. Well you just for the start lend the money which you don#t have to pay for tax cuts. But how will this money be paid back? Not by you and you rich friends obviously. Well you can then obviously inflate the money a bit so the poor people money is less worth. Do you care about this? Obviously not most of your assets are not in any fiat currency. Hmmmm delicious.

But I will give thr GOP credit. When this comes down and people notice they actually have less buying power, the dimbos will think it is the dems fault. Buying power of US citizens started shrinking since Reagen. You look at your pay check and don't get how your life gets disproportional more expensive. You chuckle for your breadcrumbz while you pay 5 times more for internet because your corrupt politicians ass rape you.

You cheer the billionaire who is lining his pockets you guys will be remembered.

Country already taking in 50+ more billion this year in tax revenue

Uhm. This is totally unaffected by taxes and a growing population will create more taxes. Not sure what you don't understand. Why would the taxes shrink there are more people every year and the world economy is growing at the moment.

Tax revenue is not affected by taxes huh. That’s a first. And that whole soliloquy you started with means nothing when your premise about who he is is wrong. You’re seriously panicking and it’s clouding you’re judgement. Be better you’re gonna be fine. Don’t fall for the fear mongering

Tax revenue is not affected by taxes huh.

Who said this lol. I said tax revenue is increasing pretty much every year for every country unless they shrink. More people more taxes, more inflation more nominal amounts of tax income. Honestly not sure you are equipped for such discussions. The actual number of tax income doesn't tell you anything. Relevant is the deficit. When you inflate the currency you will get more taxes but have a worse deficit. Not sure you fully understand how taxes and budget works.

You’re seriously panicking and it’s clouding you’re judgement

I actually like the situation. It is facinating to watch. The smugness that will follow will have epic proportions. The proposed tax on gas is a nice beginning. Very interesting. Also that you guys pay the wall that mexico will pay "later" is also very nice. At first I was afraid there is a slight possiblity this buffon launched a nuke on accident but besides that it is very entertaining. As you might have figured I am not really affected by this. Feel sorry for people left behind tho. Sad to see how vile humanity can be at time were we could have abundance. Well maybe it will serve as example for your kids. Have a nice evening.

It’s not the total amount of taxes I’m talking about it’s the amount increased of previous months. The difference between those is not from population my friend. And it’s really great hearing you talk down to peoples smugness while so arrogantly proclaiming the fantasy in your head is gonna be the reality of the country. I can’t take the irony. Do some research outside of your echo chamber it will be good for you. Only dumb people think they already know everything

It’s not the total amount of taxes I’m talking about it’s the amount increased of previous months.

Yeah show some sources for this. How will taxes increase. Go ahead.

Smaller percentage of a bigger number can be more than a large percentage of a small number. Businesses coming back creates huge chunks of money from the business and all the new employees

Please give sources for the increased tax revenue under the new tax plan.

Btw I checked the tax revenue. it appears under Obama the tax revenue increased by nearly a trillion. I don't get why dumb people keep argueing. Also it seems tax revenue increased every year with the exception of the "crisis" years of the 2008, the dotcome bubble, and the oil crisis.

So exactly what I said. Consider the possibilitly that you know shit.

Yea til all the businesses left. Now they are coming back. Consider the possibility that you know shit.

I mean I just completely wrecked the nonsense you said and you are unwilling to admit anything. I told you tax revenue increases every year and you talked stupid nonsense. Now I told you that you can check it yourself and you just drop the issue and deflect. I guess you see that you are done. Why keep going? That is why you are a Trump fan you are unable to reflect.

You just admitted your doing research at the moment why would you ask me for a source that is easily findable. I’m not the fbi I have the same access to info that you do.

Lol okay....please show me examples that come even close to /r/trumpcriticizestrump

The man is a walking hypocrisy

Hillary since the 70s

.... That's not him. Why are you pro Trump accounts blatantly spreading lies in this thread??? What the fuck is this shit?

anarcho-communist AKA Lib trash that they don't even like to play claim too.

So was he an ancom or a liberal? Make your mind up.

That said, if he is an ancom he's the first one I've seen wearing a MAGA hat.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214215135/https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov

So was he an ancom or a liberal? Make your mind up.

Is it tomato soup or is it soup made with tomato's...

The rest of your comment is roughly 17 hours late to the party and has information we did not have at the time.

In short you just wasted both of our time...

Are you really trying to say ancoms and liberals are the same thing? I assume you think conservatives are Nazis too?

You can't be a ancom without first being a liberal in your beliefs and you can't be a nazi without first being conservative in your your beliefs.

Sure people can lean multiple ways and even start on one side and totally flip to the other but we're talking about the extremes of both ends.

To put it bluntly its about ideology not "brand names". When one ideology is the precursor to another they are forever linked.

I'm begging to question your intelligence level at this point..

You've subtly moved from "they're literally the same" to "one is a precursor for the other", must have realised how ridiculous it is to conflate liberalism and anarcho-communism.

If you're going to throw out an insult about someone's intelligence, it's probably a good idea to make sure you're not talking nonsense first.

LOL, if your that naive than so be it kid. When you grow up and take a class at a college about socialism, communism, capitalism, and Anarchism and there branches you can come back and try to act like without the foundation from each there wouldn't be extremes to each.

Putting it bluntly...One in the same...

Even if there was any singular connection between your average white supremacist and murders, how can you neglect to mention the murders by other groups? Why single out the white guys? Why single out any group? You can make a link out of almost anything. There’s something fundamentally wrong with some folks. Whether they pay somebody to do this shit or are actually mentally sick there’s always somebody afterwards that has to play the race card.

Pin it on a race. That’s everybody’s go-to. As if your political preference or skin color automatically makes the correlated group at fault.

I highly doubt he would be wearing a maga hat when he is wearing a communist t-shirt and has his fist up in this photo https://imgur.com/a/fM4Mt

Well, he is.

You know the old saying, "Pics or it didnt happen"

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214215135/https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov

Look at his profile pic.

The pics are right in the post...

Cant see his face in the IG pics but yea, you are right. Not him https://imgur.com/a/NW4NK

That's not him.

How does this relate to being a Trump supporter?

You know he is a "brown guy" right?

That twitter stuff from the journalist is fake, proven fake and you should delete it because people are getting banned for posting misinformation and doxxing

I'm glad it is. Done.

I am just impressed the top post about this isn't claiming a false flag, as per usual.

I got a good laugh out of that thanks.

Probably due to there being video ect., gun man pictured being caught ect.

I didn't see any dead kids in the videos, did you? False flag! /s

Seriously, people here were absolutely saying about Las Vegas that they needed to see--not just bodies--but bloodied bodies to be satisfied that it wasn't a hoax. Being wary of the media is fine, but that is fucking mental illness.

this one appears to be legit with evidence. the other ones no footage nothing. so yeah it actually raises more eyebrows about past shootings.

Because they were elementary school kids. Not high school kids with cell phones. Come on.

Ya the high school crowd today is probably the most efficient gatherers of video evidence in history. It's pretty amazing the sheer amount of video they were able to grab today. I see a lot of people talking shit about them snapchatting during a disaster but that is honestly what journalism is all about these days. Very interesting stuff.

It’s what their generation excels at.

manchester arena bombing... serious lack of legit footage showing anything. orlando nightclub shooting, same thing... I could go on and on.

Its amazing how much more video is available instantly here then what was released in other school shootings. That might be part of the reason.

Not so subtle doesn’t know what a false flag is but still commented on it post.

Not that I am suggesting that it is a false flag, but all because the shooting occurred doesn't rule it out from being a false flag.

Wow a conspiracy forum theorizing about a possible conspiracy. How crazy huh?

No. The false flag cries this sub has come up with before like the harassment of the Sandy Hook parents is not conspiracy. It’s lunacy.

We r/politics now

You mean Sandy Hoax.

No children died.

Go back to r/politics

Yo, some of the people here need help.

I'm a frequent user here, go back to Info Wars.

Me to

They're all false flags. America doesn't have a gun death problem don't you know that

why is the no sound of fire alarm in the cellphone footage?

Good question.

I don't want to speculate to hard but they're may be a faculty member or some as of yet unsung hero took measures so people would stay inside?

love when a logical comment has down votes

“Sheib said that after the first round of gunshots went off, someone pulled the fire alarm. Students ― including herself ― attempted to stay calm while police arrived. Eventually, an officer smashed the door window and ushered students out of the building.” Madison Sheib 15 yo student

First round of shots fired before fire alarm was pulled.

Okay....but as his question asked..."Why is ther eno sound of fire alarm"?

Teachers need to be armed.

His instagram is really bizarre... pro ISIS contacts, but has a pic of him wearing a MAGA hat?

He's insulting Arabic people in all those posts. There's nothing pro ISIS on his pages.

That first video is so haunting, can't even begin to imagine the fear of these poor kids.

ADD THIS VIDEO. MUCH MORE GRAPHIC.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=de5_1518655081

From watching the video's I'm assuming hard to watch means you don't see shit in the videos.

Sorry those captions assumes that you have a soul or maybe have lost someone close to you which believe me makes them gut wrenching but feel free to jack off to this

watchpeopledie

While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

The comment on 4chan that may have been the shooter was posted at nearly 7pm the day of the shooting- at which point I think the shooter was in custody. I could be wrong, though

Has anyone seen this before? - https://youtu.be/DzNwinmBawo / http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/13237659-74/threat-puts-pittsburgh-public-schools-on-modified-lockdown

sorry its taking me so long just took a break for breakfast watching it now

Don't worry :) Take your time! Seems very interesting that the police had him weeks ago🧐

The thing with Ben Bennight really bothers me...I’m not saying this is a false flag, but how could they not catch this kid with all of the freedoms we’ve lost?

All the warning flags possible were out there it seems. I don't know what else needed to happen short of violence for this community to act.

It doesn't just take a village to raise a child...

Just heartbreaking.

here's video of inside. so scary.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ff_1518644376

That sounds like the next room over holy shit. Doesn't sound like an automatic weapon though.

Automatic is overrated. You can do a fuck ton of damage with just a semi. Why do you think the rifleman in the military are on semi 99% of the time.

I mention it because usually banning them is the route politicans go to as what should be banned after these events. Even if they werent involved.

From my European perspective (no im not a dumb hippy that knows nothing about guns) you can't put minor regulations on this sort of thing. There has to be major reform but since nothing happened after sandy hook nothing will ever change. It's a shame really that it's reached this stage.

Its one of the fundamental qestions of our country. People always cite hunting as the reason to keep guns but that's not the point. The original intention was to have guns to fight a tyrannical government.

There are crazy like this guy but also millions upon milllions that use guns safely so we always arrive at the same impasse.

But surely the people don't need guns to fight a tyrannical government. It implies that the army is willing to kill its own citizens which i seriously doubt would ever happen. Even if that did happen how are civilians with rifles supposed to take down jets helicopters etc. I just don't see how this isn't a completely outdated part of the constitution.

History is full of republics turning into tyrannies. It can very well happen here within the next 20-50 years.

In the case of a 2nd American Revolution militias wouldn't attack the helicopters and tanks head on they would go with a-symmetric warfare and for that you need guns, grenades, and rpgs.

So you believe we should all legally be able to own RPGs? I don't trust my neighbors nearly enough for that

No, I said that's all we would need for a-symmetric warfare in a revolution situation.

The foundation to being prepared is that citizens are allowed to own guns. Once a revolution starts the other 2 I'm sure would be easy to get.

Ok, so how do you get the tools for asymmetic warfare if you need them?

Believe it or not ex-military are some of the most anti-gov people out there and make up a good part of most modern day milita groups.

You ask those and any defectors from said tyrannies military nicely?

Also idk if you're into history or not, but any rebellions bread and butter is raiding supply trains!?!

Jets and helicopters haven't ended the Afghan War. An armed American populace with these types of rifles would be impossible to control.

That being said, there have to be some laws preventing young people from getting them. They can't be trusted with that kind of power. I just got banned from t_d for pointing this out, despite being a strong Trump supporter.

How would you keep a criminal from not getting access to the firearm ?

You can't but we can stop some of the mass shooters from getting them.

I guess I just have a hard time wondering how that would work.

To me, the better altetnative would be to arm some staff at the school.

"Legally". We can stop them from getting them legally. But we'll never put an end to this terrible acts. That's the sad truth.

there all already too many guns. reform will not do anything. thing is if you prevent lawful carry of guns by citizens only the bad guys will have the weapons. believe me, I wish guns never existed, but the fact is they are here and will always be used for nefarious purposes. therefore, citizens should be allowed to defend themselves. police are a REACTIVE force not a PROACTIVE force. by the time they get there its probably already too late

I don't see why your (((opinion))) on the American Constitution matters at all.

I agree with you that the American military would not turn on Americans, at least not any day soon. Our military is made up of patriots. But what I could absolutely see happen is some type of international "peace keeping" army being brought in, like from the UN or some type of mercenaries. These people would have no problem whatsoever murdering Americans

As if. There's no way in hell any president would ever allow that and the US army is stronger than any other force.

Even if that did happen how are civilians with rifles supposed to take down jets helicopters etc

Isometric warfare. Helicopter pilots, the crew that works on them, the people giving them orders, and the politicians all have family members that live amongst us. If the government turns the military against us, that's assuming they would actually carry out those orders, you would have mass assassinations of those responsible and their family members.

What about the Kent State shooting?

Would you give people nukes if you knew that millions of them would use them safely aka not? This is obviously hyperbole but explains the problem. The legality of stuff is considered by examining the pros and cons to society ( in a perfect world ) how many people don't abuse priviliges is irrelevant.

Right but in each of your examples the pros outweigh the cons in today's modern national and international climates.

Having nukes is not ideal as if you have nukes others will feel the need to have nukes to be safe from your nukes. However, we are far beyond simply being able to dismantle our stockpile and request others do the same when nuclear weapons provide such an immediate threat and deterrence to invasions by foreign powers.

Guns, in America specifically, are the same. They're everywhere and they proliferate our culture due in major part to our 2nd amendment rights and our ever increasing nationalism and patriotism. Its illogical to think we can simply take the European approach to weapons at this time when that would require such a major societal and psychological shift in our way of life.

We keep our guns not because we view it as a scenario of "if" but a scenario of "when". "When I'm being robbed I'll be able to defend myself." "When the government becomes tyrannical I'll be ready." Our society going back to the founding fathers themselves is based on paranoia and mistrust of any larger government figure and is one of the main reasons this sub even exists today.

In the minds of most of the American people the pros outweigh the cons.

Right but in each of your examples the pros outweigh the cons in today's modern national and international climates.

I don't think so and I gonna tell you why. The primary purpose of an armed population is to be "immune" against dictatorship and bad leaders. I argue the propaganda techniques kiled this possiblity. People will not see when they have bad leaders thus will never ever use their privilge despite lifing in an actual situation where this would be appropriate. I will give you example why I think people live already in this reality

• Mass incarnation for petty offences.

• Heavy use of directed propaganda against citizens. Straight up bullshting by the WH

• Extreme diffrence between and rich and poor and every increasing inequality

• People die for stupid reason like lack of funs.

• While production et cetera are increasing in staggering numbers the money and purchasing power does not arrive at the bottom or even the middle

• Higher chance to get killed by the government than in any other Western Country

• You get spied on by your intellency services.

Yet the population sits tight. Why? People at the top have the means to be dictators/bad leaders without people knowing. Thus the actual spirit of the 2nd is void. People are sitting in jail for smoking a plant while you think you are free and your guns will keep the freedomm.

Having nukes is not ideal as if you have nukes others will feel the need to have nukes to be safe from your nukes. However, we are far beyond simply being able to dismantle our stockpile and request others do the same when nuclear weapons provide such an immediate threat and deterrence to invasions by foreign powers.

You miss my point. You wouldn't want people to have nukes because you are not a dumb moron and see this increases your chances to get killed. With guns its the same but people just don't see it. Without any guns in the US your chance to get killed would decrease yet you are against this. There is no significant quality of life gained to make this a good deal. Its just brainwashing. You keep guns and freedom but can't smoke a plant. It is illusion

"When the government becomes tyrannical I'll be ready."

Thats the illusion.

Except all of your examples happen in almost every major power having or not having guns doesn't make the situation better or worse. It provides an avenue for rebellion against tyranny if we ever recognize it but it gives bad people the means to do bad things.

Just because you don't see average joe walk up to the white house with an AR and shoot DT doesn't mean people sit tight on these things either. Most people I know are prepared to do something if it happens but would realistically like to work things out through dialogue. Most people are relatively over the whole spying thing anyway as they see it as a simple and easy to live with necessity in a first world country and its not like anywhere else is any better. Also as much as I would enjoy pot becoming legal I currently don't have much sympathy for anyone who gets caught smoking or with weed in possession as it is illegal and the consequences are known.

I didn't miss your point at all. You're right in that I don't really want people to have nukes I could go either way on guns because I own them myself and enjoy shooting and hunting. The problem with your argument in both cases however is that you assume that both nukes and or guns could just evaporate overnight and problem solved. Nukes and guns both exist therefore they cannot not exist and we need to be practical and unbiased in our approach to regulating them.

I'll agree it's an illusion but that illusion provides a certain peace of mind which again in most peoples minds seems to outweigh the incredibly small risk of ever encountering gun violence in person.

The problem with your argument in both cases however is that you assume that both nukes and or guns could just evaporate overnight and problem solved.

I didn't say anything to that effect my argument is solely theoretical. The US is fucked in terms of guns there is obviously no going back.

I'll agree it's an illusion but that illusion provides a certain peace of mind which again in most peoples minds seems to outweigh the incredibly small risk of ever encountering gun violence in person.

Well the non quatifiable piece of mind. If this becomes the leg the 2nd wants to stay on you might have a weak case. I want to point out that by most "happiness" studies the US ranks pretty low considering the fact how rich the average US citizen should be. So not sure how the piece of mind works out for you. This obviously as well could be a reason to "rebel". Maybe guns are one of the biggest irony of the US society in that they achieve actually the opposite of what was intended. The politicans stripping you of rights and putting you in jail for stupid shit talk the loudest about your rights to own guns while taking all the others slowly away. Truly dazzling.

So you agree then that guns aren't going anywhere which means efforts should not be made to remove guns from the people but provide better regulations on how and by whom they are obtained.

I don't really feel like you can correlate those two things together as I don't really see the peace of mind provided by guns to have any impact about the way our society feels about their overall happiness. I guess if we're looking at it from Maslow's point of view it provides a basic need but not nearly as much as other things we lack in this country like proper healthcare, ease of access to living space, and necessary resources. Our happiness is low not because of the guns existing or not existing but because we lack other basic needs that prevent us from climbing the pyramid.

I think what truly dazzles me is how much you seem to care about people going to jail over "stupid shit" when they broke the law. Regardless of your views on certain laws I don't think that should exempt anyone from punishment for breaking those laws while they are in place and enforced.

sandy hook was fake. this shootings actually real.

Why do you think this one is real vs Hook?

clear compelling video evidence plus you cant fake the screams of those kids.

How stupid does one need to be to believe this shit? Have you ever been tested? Just curious.

Yep. Not to mention let's say you actually pass gun laws and take them up, from the registered non illegal guns. How many decades till all the illegal ones just currently out there, are gone? I honestly don't think it's worth it.

The first battle with Britain was when they tried to seize the powder and ball stores from the colonists. The colonists knew what they fuck that meant

IMO people will always find a way to kill, be it trucks bombs etc. If somebody likes guns and wants to use one to kill, they will make one themselves. Its also much easier to make a fully automatic weapon from scratch as opposed to a semi-auto.

Completley agree. Take away guns Knives. take away knives ACID. Take away acid TRUCKS.

Complicated issue involving mental health, parenting, education, bullying etc. Guns do play a role, seems this dude was obsessed with them, obviously not a stable guy by all accounts.

Pencils.. you forgot that lead.

John Wick over here.

Do you really think it is as likely he would have done this had not a plethora of weapons been so easily available for him + all the inspiration he has gotten from all the previous school shooters? I don`t have the answer to everything, but this one seems kind of obvious.

I don't think HE in particular with his history of batshit behavior should have been allowed to own that gun.

He bought it illegally

At least you didn't say actually.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-shooter-history-problems-bought-ar-15-legally-article-1.3821950 http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-florida-shooting-suspect-charged-20180215-story.html https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/teen-charged-with-17-murders-in-florida-school-shooting-legally-bought-ar-15 https://thinkprogress.org/parkland-shooting-gun-legal-b0859f171b05/ https://www.google.com/search?q=florida+school+shooting+ar-15+legal&newwindow=1&ei=fWiGWqe8MazX5gKM9IiYCQ&start=20&sa=N&biw=1536&bih=886 http://www.khq.com/story/37510745/the-latest-suspected-florida-school-shooter-legally-bought-ar-15-a-year-ago

Ohhh damm, I’m misinformed.

Agreed about the original intention. But that’s why it feels outdated, the power of our government and military has advanced so much that citizens guns would be useless to resist it anyway

That's what they want you to think m8. People thought the same about the 13 colonies vs British Empire. The insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan put a pretty damn good fight against our unlimited $ recently and I think if push came to shove our citizenry would step up to the challenge and outdo them. We'd certainly be better armed.

Government is inept man this fact is shoved in our face everyday. Don't be scared of them.

On the other hand if revolution took the form of a full blown Civil War...? That means a big chunk of local police military and Government would support resistance. Then they wouldn't need to fight like the apache and couldconfront the tyranny head on... and just maybe win?

The shitload of guns we have in every home scares oppressors and invaders alike. It is one of the few things keeping them both from steamrolling over any pretense of freedom we have.

I'm now on an nsa list somewhere for having this conversation so I hope you enjoyed it. Why am I still awake right now?

What do they use them for?

Hunting, becoming skilled shooters as a sport, just overall feeling good/better about themselves etc.

I don't own guns myself I can only tell you why the founding fathers wanted us to have them.

I just don't think that being able to do all of this freely is worth the number of lives lost. I also don't think that hunting/sporting shouldn't be possible. There's a lot of space for compromising in between 'everybody can boy guns freely' and 'all guns are forbidden permanently'. What infuriates me is the fact that the public political opinion is so extremely polarized towards the opposing extremes that people just can't discuss issues anymore. It's either 100% or 0%. Just sad

Agreed. The moderate politican that can broker a deal is nearly extinct.

Sandy Hook was fake.

It doesn't matter if it was fake or not. The point is a bunch of kids died and nothing happened.

no kids died tho...unlike today.

Sandy Hook is the ultimate conspiracy for me, even more so than 9/11. If it was fake, which I'm leaning toward, then we are basically living in the Truman show. Skeptics point out how many people would have to be involved, and its a fair point, which is exactly what makes it so crazy to think about. I don't know if Sandy Hook town is made up of mostly CIA and their families, or something to do with witness protection or what. I know its fucking bonkers to think this many people could be involved in something like this, but there's just too much evidence to ignore.

Well, none of the first responding medics were allowed to go in to the building so that limits the number of folks who have to be in on it. None of the "bodies" were flown to a Hospital, and the autopsy reports were all sealed. Not to mention one of the "Dads" was also dressed up as swat on the day of the shooting. Sandy Hook "survivors" who look like the "dead" kids sing at the Super Bowl just weeks after the shooting. They rub it in our face. They get off on how obvious they make it and they laugh at the public's stupidity.

The super bowl thing is pretty wild. You're right about medics not being allowed in, and its possible there were no local cops allowed in too, if the FBI "happened" to be nearby and respond quickly. There's still the family of every kid that supposedly died though, but that's easily explainable if this is a town made up of CIA agents, which is the theory I'm leaning toward.

The families can be explained in a way that makes sense to me. 1. Money 2. Threat of death for talking and 3. the biggest motivator of all - religious convictions. They are either Satanists who have taken blood oaths or they are people who really really hate guns. Imagine a brainwashed religious zealot who's anti-gun and believes that a lie is acceptable in order to prevent the loss of life of kids. They are told that this lie will prevent future Columbines. They are told this lie will bring about gun control laws that will limit death... After all, nobody died at Sandy Hook so would you lie to save lives? To save your own? To save your kids? And besides, if they changed their mind & decided to tell the truth, would anybody believe them (aside from crazies like us?) Would anybody in Main Stream Media cover the story? I doubt it. I can see why they would lie.

I think the anti gun motivation is the most likely scenario. The families believe they're justified in the lie because it will take guns away which will prevent a real Sandy Hook from happening in the future. I nice sum of money to each family for their trouble is icing on the cake. I still think they're CIA, but CIA agents are real people, not robots. They probably gathered up a bunch of CIA agents who are anti gun, and away they went.

The 'dead children' were only identified by family with single photographs. All funerals were closed casket (mandated by authorities) and the 'dead children' were never seen by the family/public.

Yea I forgot about the families not seeing the kids. There's so much bullshit with Sandy Hook that I forgot half of it. The only person we even heard of who saw the bodies was the medical examiner, who seemed like a serial killer.

Nothing happened after Vegas, either. Nevada's gun laws are pathetic even by American standards yet there is still no appetite for reform.

Why would we let the federal government control gun sales if the whole purpose of the second amendment is to protect us from the government?

So the whole Fast and the Furious shenanigan... Elaborate for me on the transparency and integrity of the ATF, American government, political officials, etc. in general. This country is a joke, and our news/politics are merely theater for the consumption of the consumers. Producers cannot stomach it, but seem to be growing ever silent with respect to real public speech or demonstration.

Bump stocks are now illegal in MA and Columbia SC?

What kind of regulation do you propose, friend?

Let me ask you since your European. Do you trust the American government? As an American I don't trust our government. We've been practically in nonstop war for the past hundred years. The first amendment is constantly under attack, as well as the fifth. As soon as the American people are no longer armed, we will be in serious trouble. We (everyone in the world) like to think of ourselves as more enlightened and peaceful than a few hundred years ago, but are we? A government WILL turn on its people again, but I can promise you it won't our government turning on us, as long as we're armed to the teeth.

Hell no i dont trust the american government. But i also don't trust the american people. We know for a fact that every society is made up of average men and women, some smarter than the rest and some who are willing to harm us in any way possible. By having a policy of anyone and everyone having access to a firearm you are catering to the needs of the worst in your society. In Europe, we don't have firearms because we know that 0.01% of the population is fucked up enough to use it against their own people so even tho there is always that tiny minority you have to ensure that they cannot carry out acts even if it limits the 'freedoms' of the 99%. We have to cater to idiots or we face the consequences. As for the government i don't see how that could ever happen in a modern society. The army is much more loyal to its citizens than to it's government especially with Trump in charge.

Can't you guys get put in prison for saying some shit on the Internet?

No not yet, some get arrested for death threats and hate crime from messages they put online but they would be arrested for saying the same thing in public. I do like the idea of the first amendment but I also like the idea of holding idiots accountable for their words.

So you like that Count Dankula is charged with a crime for making a joke on youtube?

Not aware of that situation

http://archive.is/gHVEw video in question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu47muw--A4

Don't think he should be in prison but no sympathy either pretty distasteful stuff

Alright, just wanted to make sure I understood your viewpoint correctly and you've clarified that you think 'distasteful' jokes should be illegal. Thanks.

Literally said I don't think he should be in prison/charged.

My mistake then, the way it was phrased sounded like you agreed with the charge but not the penalty.

I’m from Australia and after the Port Arthur massacre with 35 killed and 23 wounded the government just said the party’s over and took all the guns. Now the best we have is bolt action rifles and under and over shotguns which sucks for responsible gun owners. The criminals still have guns but they just shoot each other which is fine by everyone but at least we haven’t had another public shooting since then. I think America has too many guns and let’s face it. If they didn’t do anything after Sandy Hook they’re never going to do anything. I hope they can do something to stop the mentally unstable people ruining it for everybody

Well that's the problem innit, they have more guns than people. Good luck with getting rid of the issue now. The whole argument that the good guys will not have guns while the criminals will is crazy. It's not like gangs in Europe and the West are mexican cartels that carry out random assassinations, most of the violence is kept between gangs and in very limited areas.

You don’t really need a gun for home protection in Australia but I’m not going to lie. If I lived in the states I would have to get one because everyone else has one. And the fucked up part is that’s how everybody thinks there and is probably a big factor in why most people there have guns. It’s a vicious cycle

Remember who profits the most from this all. That's why politicians refuse to do anything, nothing to do with morality all about that $$$

the government just said the party’s over and took all the guns. Now the best we have is bolt action rifles and under and over shotguns

"All" the guns were not taken - far from it. Pump-action and lever-action rifles/shotguns are fairly easily obtainable with a basic gun license. Handguns are still allowed, too. Semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic/pump-action shotguns are heavily restricted but technically legal for farmers, professional pest controllers and some clay target shooters.

They create the problem so they can solve the problem. GUNS are not the problem. AND liberals can't create the problem and take away guns.

More restricting gun laws = more gun related violence/crime.

No. Full bans are the intent, automatic weapons are the compromise. Arguing against autos has already been defeated because well, no shit.

not sure if you know this but automatic rifles have been illegal in the u.s since the 80s dog

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Autos are are absolutely not illegal to own in the US. Registered autos made before the ‘86 ban are perfectly legal for a civilian to own. You pay a $200 tax and go thru an FBI background check. Takes about a year or so.

Actually affording one... well that’s a completely different story. The last full auto AK I saw for sale in person was $40K.

No they don't... they start talking about banning AR15s and other guns they think are scary but are not full auto. they are semi auto.

Or how almost every mass shooting was commuted with a semi

maybe because autos are illegal?

I was agreeing that auto is overrated lol

That is incorrect, they are just widely unavailable and restricted in most states. They are also insanely expensive.

You can still purchase an automatic weapon, because existing guns manufactured before May 19, 1986, were grandfathered in. That amounts to somewhere around 300,000 registered automatic weapons, which can cost thousands of dollars apiece because of their limited availability.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/02/difference-between-automatic-and-semi-automatic-we/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

Because automatic weapons and semi automatics are both equally capable of putting a single round down range accurately.

It's actually better. Generally three round bursts are used because it's still accurate and puts rounds on targets. Auto fire is unpredictable and generally only used for covering fire while the more accurate shooters do the real work.

To save bullets. No “sprayin’ n’ prayin’” as they say.

i dont think you grasp how fast one can fire semi auto weapons with low recoil accurately with practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQTFOwZnero

It's an AR-15 without a doubt, I've not shot many guns in my life, but have shot an AR-15 with and without the stock handle, sound without stock handle exact same, I'll never forget the power and noise with and without the stock handle.

Literally the other side of that wall, the particles being launched into the air from it.

Judging from the other videos that could be the room where the one girl got shot.

This is the worst thing I've ever seen.

I think he's in the hallway right here shooting into rooms. I heard reports he was just walking down the hall hoping to spray through rooms or find people. My guess is this is the case because in that other video with the kids running out you see bodies in the hallway.

Also just to point out there coulda and shoulda been so many more dead. He pulled the fire alarm to get people to run out but thank fuck most of them stayed up.

nah looks like he's dumping into the classroom from the hallway.

In that video he's actually shooting into their room. You can see dust in the air near the door, and the thing hanging from the ceiling shaking from it. As well as the bullet holes in the computer being a picture from the same kid who took the video.

I counted around 19 or 20 shots....what confuses me is how is that kid almost a mile away with no guns on him what so ever as he got caught.

He could have dropped/left them behind? Accomplished his 'goals' so why keep the guns?

lol. Right. Like he'd just drop all the guns. You know how much a gun costs?

I want you on the jury if I’m ever on trial.

Th...thank you?

I want him on mine too. No evidence, no verdict.

Does that sound like two different gun shots or do you think its just him moving farther away?

Allegedly he blended in with the kids to run away. He couldn't have thrown the guns absolutely anywhere. What person who committed a mass shooting with intent to run away would carry his guns with him?

How does he blend in with kids carrying a rifle?

Um, you know, by dropping said rifle...

Haha some fucking people don't even think sometimes

Yeah, and he’s a Dr.

Scary.

Has it been recovered?

That hasn't been reported that I know of.

Ok. At that point the rifle wasn’t recovered. Where would he drop it that no one had found it? If he was blending in with students he most likely would’ve had to drop it in the school. Or at the least least in front of someone. That’s what I am getting at. I appreciate the smart ass remark because I’m a smart ass as well, but I feel like it would be difficult to go on a shooting rampage, drop the rifle and blend in with other students.

Actually it had already been found, I was just to lazy to edit my post cause I looked right after I commented. And what are you talking about? You have a gun and everyone is running the away from you so it wouldn't be hard to ditch it literally anywhere and then keep running towards everyone else. You don't have to be the head cashier at walmart to figure that out. Oh and nice, get all pissy about me being a smart ass an you turn right around and do the same. Get back to work peasant.

LOL. Exactly. Not sure why this is hard to comprehend. If he was trying to blend in to escape, I'm pretty sure the gun would give him away. Especially when many of the students were lead single file out of the school with their hands in the air

God damn those screams... I can’t

How can they just sit there snapchatting waiting to die? I'd be jumping out of the fucking window.

I’m impressed he kept the camera pointed at the door with his recording finger on. Then sometime later posted the holes in the computer (last second of video shows next snap 47 mins ago....)

Weird. In some ways I feel like people "learn" from cell phone videos of shootings like Las Vegas. Really sad.

Because social media has created a totally strange sense of priority in young people. Why live your life productively when you can be your own reality show star, documenting and dispersing it all to the 100 people who follow you. Who cares if you get shot? You got a few likes and shares.

Is there any gun control legislation votes upcoming in FL? I've found some interesting relationships between mass shootings and gun legislation in the past.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act is silently passing through Congress, and that allows one states’ concealed carry licenses to be valid in other states. Florida is a pretty easy state to get concealed carry approved in.

American Outdoor Brands (formerly Smith & Wesson) up 5% today. Lots of money to be made on these shootings and the "gun control" rhetoric. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AOBC?p=AOBC

It's the truth folks, this kind of shit makes folk stock the fuck up, demand is strong, sales are up, stock prices are up, which makes shareholders (bosses) happy.

Remington declaring bankruptcy soon as well.

They claim the "Trump effect" has destroyed sales because the panic of the brown guy taking the guns away is gone. Sales went into the shitter a year ago. Nothing like a good mass shooting to up the gun control talk and boost sales. I'm not saying they plan these shootings obviously but they sure ass shit don't mind them.

If you had a billion dollar stake in a company like this, and you could pay someone pocket change to orchestrate an event that would up your stock value, wouldn't you?

Especially when you know the NRA owns American politics.

Check this out from like a week or two ago:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4918/text?r=3

"Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act of 2018"

It sounds to me like expanded domestic surveillance powers for some alphabet agencies. I bet they'll push this through in no time.

Like what? All the Sandy Hook truthers say that, but where was the attempt at gun control? All congress tried to do was close the gun show loophole and get 100% of purchases subject to a background check and couldn't even accomplish that despite having the support of 90% of the population.

Odd that the word "truth" now has a negative connotation, isn't it.

Odd that I'd get a down vote for pointing out how the word "truth" has a negative connotation now, isn't it.

The negative context isn't "truth," it's "truther" that has the negative context.

Read what you wrote just now

I mean when there are over 600+ million guns in the U.S. and barely .001% cause issues, it's not really something that needs to be fixed.

Fully automatic machineguns (one trigger pull, multiple rounds fired) are perfectly legal in a majority of states for any law abiding citizen to own and a machinegun has NEVER been documented in the use of a crime or any mass shooting in present day history.

uhh, pretty sure fully-automatic weapons were federally banned in the 80s.

For the most part, your incorrect. In 1986 the National Firearms Act was created which just means no new machineguns can be manufactured but you can still purchase the 200k+ still in existance and you have to pay a $200 tax when purchasing one. Same criteria for purchasing suppressors, short barreled shotguns/rifles, aow's, grenade launchers (each grenade is a $200 stamp).

Here is me shooting my M11 machinegun last weekend: https://streamable.com/693w3

wow i stand corrected! i did some quick research on my state's laws and pretty much exactly what you're saying. from what i understand, since no new ones have been made since 1986, you would always be purchasing a used gun (transacting a "transfer of license" & not creating a new registration for the weapon), and would have to make the purchase from a certain authorized dealer (Class III). also, due to this, full-autos run on average ~$14,000.

is this accurate?

For the most part. You can either transfer from a FFL dealer that has their Class III occupational license to handle NFA items or you can transfer directly from another person/trust. Either way all paperwork for the $200 tax stamp transfer is submitted to ATF which as long as your 21yo and can own a regular gun, your approved. It's a tax stamp, no license or anything like that. Your just paying a tax for the transfer and the stamp is just proof you paid.

right on. thank you for the solid info bro.

Oh, check out all the bills Feinstein tried to take to Congress after that one.

Really? NY, NJ and Connecticut passed extreme laws within the first two months of this alleged attack. Look before you cross the street.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/741ipx/pulse_nightclub_congressional_baseball_practice/

Right! good one!

I saw a kid on FOX News interviewed that said he went to alternative school with the shooter and that he was age 20 or 21.

How tf are you in high school at that age? If your a second year senior get a GED.

You’re

Haha! That's a college level speller for ya.

The Spanish channel just released the alleged shooter's first name. They are pumping kids for info. I wish my Spanish was better.

(Alleged) Instagram account already taken down. Fast thinking by someone to archive it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214212957/https://www.instagram.com/cruz_nikolas/

If that was really his Instagram I'm kind of at a loss. I feel like this event could have been predicted.

Predicted? So you're the thought police?

In his instagram bio it say the date 1/18/2016 smile face emoji. What is the significance of this date?

Chances are its the date he and some girl started dating

What is so strange about following the fire drill schedule at your alma mater? Don't we all?

Nice find benogan3. I'm fishing for strange occurrences too. I heard a teacher interview that sounded disingenuous too. Talking about some innocuous crap of how the recent fire drill probably saved them from more casualties and proceeding to do that thing where people go "sorry" when they pause and try to force themselves to cry. Idk, could be legit. Whole thing stinks.

cruz_nikolas gets you a bunch of gay porn on google, so that's fun.

Superintendent says they were having teacher of the year celebrations off-site when this went down.

It's probably common but I find it strange to have a fire drill when all staff is not on hand.

At a school, no less.

Maybe he pulled it? Like those 2 kids in Arkansas.

I definitely think he pulled it. What I'm saying is I just find it weird to run any fire drill when you know in advance some faculty won't be there.

Well considering there could be a fire when teachers aren't there, it's conceivable there is merit to having a fire drill when there are less teachers present that day.

Wasn't a drill, he pulled the fire alarm

But why are the fire alarms not going off in the videos?

What an interesting day. Nsa attack this morning, Wikileaks dm's leaked, Stormy Daniels NDA stuff, and a mass murder at a school from a lunatic

What's the NDA stuff? I've caught the other points you mentioned.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/14/porn-star-claims-shes-free-to-talk-after-trump-lawyer-violates-non-disclosure-deal/

Thanks man

You forgot Valentine's Day fell on Ash Wednesday following Super Blue moon

woah. that's weird as fuck.

I'm sure there some sort of Pagan/Blood Sacrifice theory out there somewhere

And Bitcoin is over 9000 (again)

https://youtu.be/SiMHTK15Pik

We have a solar eclipse tomorrow as well. All of these things are relevant in ways we have yet to understand.

plus the first in the landmark cannabis case against Jeff Sessions

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/article199997919.html

http://www.hillerpc.com/press-release-federal-cannabis-complaint/

I didn't even hear about this.

has been quite under the radar. some articles in media last year when filed in July. today was HUGE. should have been covered in all major media. still just a few mentions here and there. but case is just getting started. though the judge is taking some time to decide whether he can even proceed to hear it.

found a bit in r/marijuana -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marijuana/comments/7xlnlc/account_made_by_someone_who_was_a_the_hearing/

this should start to show up in the news as it progress (or gets thrown out)

While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

The luciferians hate this love holiday?

Fucking this, NSA thing getting hardly any coverage.

So.... Coincidence? 😂

It was reported by Brian Dorman (@bdormanTV) that there were two fire drills today, one in the am, and one later, during which the shooting started. Students are reported to have been confused why they had two drills in one day.

Sounds like they didn't have two drills. The later "drill" was a pure coincidence of the shooter triggering the alarm to get everyone moving and into the open.

If he wasn't there in the morning he might not have known about the first drill.

Why are the alarms not going of in the videos? Where ar ethe fire alarms I would expect to hear them they are very loud

Something feels off.. Zuma resigns, and this happens. Orchestrated distraction? (also zuma autocorrects to zion's, thought that was odd)

Did they call trauma helicopters??

This image here making its rounds on 4chan/8chan saying this could be the guy. The Instagram page has been pulled down since then, but people also found another account here which was also pulled.

You'll notice as how Cruz mentions someone in his post multiple times, once you look up that user on Instagram you get the bio "MSD FOOTBALL #26 RB🏈 2019" -- or in other words Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

Don't matter who he supported or who the fucker wanted to kill but hopefully they'll get some answers out of him.

Nicolas Cruz is a registered member of the Democratic party and voted for Hitlery.

https://imgur.com/a/tAZDz

It's weird. In one picture he's wearing a MAGA hat, then in this picture he has a Hillary hat: https://i.imgur.com/CF7ykLl.jpg

Hillary hat was shopped, here's a real archive of the instagram:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214223108/https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov/

He wouldnt have been enrolled at Douglas with that address. It would be a 45 minute drive.

Where does it say who he voted for? Are you pulling that out of thin air or something because it seems completely irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? You and I both know how this is going to progress. The MSM is going to blame Republicans and turn it into a argument for gun control.

Also, everyone jumping to early conclusions blaming another "whitey shooting up a school." His name is Nicolas de Jesus Cruz...

You have the wrong fucking name. It’s spelled Nikolaus Cruz accord to the Broward County sheriff.

How is it irrelevant?

Then why the fuck did you write about his vote?

He would have had to drive 45 minutes to school with that address. Wouldnt have been registered to attend classes there. There are 35 High schools in the county so there would be 10 that are closer than MSD. You probably have the wrong Nik Cruz.

He's a former student. He doesn't go there anymore.

In 2016 he would have been 17 and gone there.

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel is a Jew

But can you tie him to Zionism?

Fucking LOL at Fox news asking to use the footage and calling him "fam" what the actual fuck

Fucking Lmao the reply to him after called him gullible!!

Like dude posting live about to die and they're like "whats good with some royalty-free footage, broooo"

You know that’s some troll account right? That dude doesn’t really work for Fox News. It was a joke about the news hopping all over shit like that very quick.

Sad state of affairs when I really can't tell the difference anymore...

Easily a false flag false flag. GOP radicalized an innocent kid to then make it look like he was framed as a trump supporter to discredit future radicalized alt righters. .

everything is a false flag nowadays?

pretty much

Yes it's very conceivable.

Nicholas Martinez Jesus de Mexico cruz. He is white. Don't let people tell you otherwise. Fuck white people.

And you are?

White of course. Just your everyday selfhating white person.

I love you and I hope one day you love you too.

No one asks what went wrong with American society that this kind of thing is becoming more frequent.

Spoiler: Its not guns.

Sane, healthy, well adjusted, loved, validated, productive people coming from healthy homes do not murder other people.

What we are witnessing, friends, is the end of American society. We are witnessing the destruction of a civilization. More laws will not fix this problem because its too big and too systemic.

We have been destroyed from within. Our enemy is inside our borders. Our enemy is us.

Spoiler: it's guns.

Check out the dudes Instagram. How on earth someone can get that amount of weapons and publicly display them is beyond compression. If you posted that to Instagram in my county an armed offenders squad would be at your house 10mins later

From the instagram I saw he had a few knives and a airsoft pistol. Do you a link to this instagram arsenal?

Sure I just uploaded screenshots I took earlier

https://imgur.com/a/RjTXy

Thanks for posting but just so you know, that's not a lot of guns. The main "assault rifle" in that pic is a smith n Wesson m&p sport II. It's a semi .223 rifle and is ~$600 at any cabelas. Source: I own one.
As for the other guns, you've got a cheap pump shotgun, what looks to be a .270 hunting rifle, a tiny .22 rifle, and a pistol. If you live in the U.S. no one is going to be knocking on your door to collect these cheap legal guns. I own more myself as well as the majority of Americans do.

the only gun in that photo that would be illegal for him to have (assuming that he can legally own a firearm) is the pistol because he is under the age of 21.

That's the problem

No shit, you can go to war at 18 but cannot buy a pistol.

That's like saying its wrong to see a 19yo smoking cigarettes. It's perfectly legal for a 19yo to own those and 99% of people that have them would never use to purposely hurt a person. There are 600+ million guns in America and the amount of problems we have with them equate to less than .001%.

tldr; get your head out of your ass

That's the point. It shouldn't be LEGAL for anyone to own those weapons and it's not legal in the rest of the western world. The rest of the world sees the shootings in the usa and the solution is very obvious yet you all try to deflect blame from your shitty gun laws.

Lol that is the entire point of what our country was founded upon, was getting away from following the other countries and that's why U.S. is the #1 world leader and is our second amendment right after free speech for a reason; to avoid being taken over by people that don't agree with that right!

You can sit in your echo chamber all day long in your #2,#3,.....#49 ranked country but your fucking absolutely incompetent if you think any little bullshit law to help screen people or something of the sort would stop something like this. Like absolutely incompetent out the wazoo...STUPID!!!

You can literally print the same gun (AR-15) this shooter used out of a 3d printer in addition to purchasing a 80% parts kit and drilling out the holes and have the exact same thing.

Do you know murder is illegal? That didn't stop this fucker from killing 19+ today.

You can keep you money and idiotic values and I'll keep my kids not being shot at school.

Friend, your speaking irrationally and not level headed like an adult here.

The difference between you and me is that your approach is straight forward and common sense, however it's totally unrealistic and not possible to implement realistically in the real world. Everything does sound great on paper and on forums but it's the actual action and implementation to take place that I'm after and what your saying would not stop that matter at hand. Even if there were to totally outright ban sales/limit everybody from owning them it would still probably take a few thousand years to see clear results from that based on current percentages.

I know you don’t care because I’m not from the #1 ranked nation (#1 in school shootings I assume you’re talking about), but in my country we also have 3D printers, but still don’t have mass shootings seemingly every fucking week. We actually don’t have ANY mass shootings any more. Shit, if there’s a shooting of any kind it is national news.

I’ve been to the USA. It was pretty cool, but I’ll choose my country every time. At least I don’t have to worry about my kid being shot to death at school, being shot from a hotel while I’m at a music festival, being shot by a cop for no reason or having to be in debt for the rest of my life if I need medical attention and don’t have the right insurance.

1 ranked world leader is just factual information, peasant; I'm not saying my country is #1 to yours or better than yours but since you have your panties in a jumble I wanted to clarify.

And your guys argument about how your country doesn't have so-and-so issue is comparing apples to oranges. Do you understand the U.S. is basically comprised of 50 smaller countries that each also has their own set of rules/regs in addition to the federal laws? Do you realize your country probably doesn't even make up 1 or 2 of the 50 states we have? It's not comparative.

This is a mental health issue we are dealing with here and it coincides with the inbred terrorists that are popping up all over the world (easily getting guns in Western countries that outright bans them).

You guys want to solve a complex issue by putting band aids over it which is downright uneducated and incompetent because you don't have any idea what your talking about. Your only point is sensationalism...being worried about getting shot at school, hotel or festival; like dude do you not realize how minuscule of a percentage of that for it to possibly ever happen to you? Your more likely to win the lotto 10x over.

And now your going to bring up healthcare where again you already don't know what your talking about? Do you realize implementing those socialistic values degrades your healthcare? That's why Canadians are hopping over the border at an exponential rate to get our superior healthcare at much less of a rate.

I live in Australia, which actually has a way bigger population than NYC. Our states all have different laws and regulations too, but after our last mass shooting they regulated our guns and we don’t have mass shootings any more. We can still own and use guns, we just don’t let 19 year olds stockpile them, we have rules. People were upset initially (“but what about my freedom?!” Blah blah blah), but eventually everyone was cool with it because everyone that needed a gun could still have one, if you didn’t need one but wanted to shoot one you can (I have a shooting range 10 minutes from my house that I use sometimes), but the main reason everyone is cool with it is because we could see that guns were probably not the best thing to let people buy cheaply and easily.

Our free healthcare is fantastic. I was diagnosed with ALL Leukaemia when I was 18. Spent just over 6 months in hospital and was getting outpatient treatments for over 10 years. Didn’t pay a cent, so I think our healthcare is pretty good. Shit, I’m in the waiting room of a radiologist at the moment waiting to get an MRI. Free. How much would an MRI cost over there?

The reason I bought up healthcare is because this is a mental health issue, I agree with you there. It’s also a society issue, arrogance issue because you guys feel that everyone needs one (or two, or 30, or however many guns and bullets you want), but most of all IT IS A GUN ISSUE. IT IS TOO EASY TO BUY WEAPONS IN THE USA SO OF COURSE THERE IS PSYCHOPATHS USING THEM TO SHOOT INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Brotherman, I'm happy for that situation and I'm glad it worked out for Australia but I'm not about to start debate the tax you pay to get that and the apple to oranges debate of why it can't scale out for the U.S..

But man, Australia barely has 3x as many people there are in NYC...and that's just one city in one of the 50 states in the U.S. ...More than half a trillion guns out there and no way to stop hand to hand transactions. It's not feasible. To late. Not happening. Tens of billion dollar industry revolving around them and if the manufacuters can't sell guns to the public where they generate ALL their profit, then they can't afford R&D to make the military newer guns and compete for contracts.

I'm all for wanting to change the world and make it a better place but it's taking realistic steps and approach to get to where we need to be that is going to ultimately solve the problem we have which is mental health.

What makes you think you don't have to worry about that? Assuming you live somewhere in Europe. Pretty sure ISIS has done a few shootings over there. Paris seems to come to mind. All those people being shot at and no one has a gun to protect themselves with a shoot back. You're kids are not going to be any safer with your laws. It's just making them into victims even more so.

I live in Australia. Obviously you didn’t read through my comment. Probably saw someone say something about taking your guns away and just decided to quickly make assumptions and start rambling some bullshit. No terrorist attacks over here champ.

How many of your school shootings are being done by ISIS? What is the percentage of terrorist attacks to people just shooting their school up because they feel like it? You can try to justify it however you like, ultimately nothing will change, you will keep your guns and there will be more dead kids next week. Land of the free hahahaha.

Must of struck a nerve for you to get so upset suddenly. Enjoy being a victim when someone comes for you.

Doesn’t strike a nerve with me champ, it’s you guys with your kids getting shot at school, so maybe you should be the one getting upset about it. But hey, I bet your solution is to have more guns.

I don't have kids. I use the money to buy more guns.

Why are you so against guns?

What weapons are you referring too? A semi-auto rifle and a pump shotgun?

That is not a massive amount of guns. 2 hunting rifles, 2 shot guns, 1 pistol, and the AR-15. Seems pretty reasonable for a collection.

Reasonable in America.

Good one smart ass

Yeah, cause the very existence of automatic weapons is was made him mentally unstable. The guns whispered in his ear and made him do it.

i have guns. why am i not killing people?

What sort of guns do you have?

every kind.

Hand guns? Automatic rifles?

why dont you try answering my question now?

I don't know you from a bar of soap. Unless you're into hunting then I don't see any reason for owning a guy other than to kill people. That's their purpose...

do guns make people kill other people?

Yes. He would not have done this if he didn't have a guns so guns did make him kill other people. Is it ok for a 19 year old to amass this amount of weapons?

i own guns. millions of other people own guns. why are there not millions of shootings if guns make people kill people?

Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[1] In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 U.S. citizens),[2][3] and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 U.S. citizens).

you didnt answer the question.

You didn't answer mine either

yes i did. youre deflecting because you now realize how stupid your position is. congratulations.

guns did make him kill other people

So, it wasn't the fact that he is a psychopath or is suffering from other mental illnesses. The guns themselves imposed their will upon him and forced him to kill people. That is literally what you just implied. THat's strange, because I own many guns myself (handguns, rifles, AR 15s, AK47s, etc) and never have I killed someone. Nice logic, dude. Quit acting like an angry child, grow up and just admit to yourself that your position is moronic.

I have an ak and I'm not killing people

Why do you have one though?

They are fun to target shoot and I have money. Plus, if SHTF ( which I don't think will happen), better to have and not need, than need and not have.

Coward. You can keep your government death squads and backwards shitty laws. I'd rather be free than safe, and if I'm truly free then I trust that I can always be to an extent safe.

You're not free lol the NRA owns you.

I find it very hard to believe that someone would plan an attack like this, buy all the ammo, all the guns, go to the school with a plan, light off smoke bombs, pull the fire alarm, then start shooting at hundreds of people. BUT if he didn't have access to guns he would have just stayed home and watched Netflix.

It's not the guns. Like /u/Zap_Powerz said, It's the culture and it's society as a whole.

Without access to guns he would have shown up and killed 17 people with a day old banana and a bike lock, right?

Use your imagination.

If you want to kill as many people as possible what would you do if guns didn't exist?

Something that would either:

(a) Invariably raise far more red flags and more than likely get me caught, like, say, attempting to buy the supplies necessary to make a bomb.

(b) Be absurdly unrealistic to carry out logistically, like, say, breaking into the engineering room and poisoning the water supply to the school. See point (a) above here too w/r/t my poison.

(c) Result in objectively fewer deaths because whatever I landed on wouldn't be a weapon designed expressly to violently end as many lives as possible, as quickly as possible.

But we don't need to use our imaginations, do we? Because if there were more efficient means of doing any of this, we'd routinely see it happen. And yet here we are.

You are not really thinking about this, you are simply arguing becasue you don't like guns.

Guns are actually a very poor choice for mass killings when you are in a place where other people have guns.

There is a reason why almost all the mass killings where a gun was used was in a place where guns were not allowed.

Yet if you go to a place where guns are allowed, you never know they are even there and there are never mass shootings.

Keep in mind, the biggest mass killing in the US was done with a Box cutter, the second was done with a truck, the third with poison.

Ban guns all you want. People who wish to kill others will find a way. It's not the means, it's the reason. And my guess is that this kid was on the same meds all the other killers were on.

You are not really thinking about this, you are simply arguing because you like guns

See what I did there?

Guns are actually a very excellent choice for mass killings. This is exactly why we're not experiencing an epidemic of box cutter attacks, nor of mass poisonings. It's also exactly why law enforcement and our armed forces wield guns instead of fucking scissors and teddy bears.

I'd also point out that you couched your statement above in "when you are in a place where other people have guns." You're aware that this was at a high school, right? So unless your solution is to arm the fucking students, I'm not entirely clear on what your point is. If that is indeed your proposed solution, then I'm not really sure what to tell you.

And of course people who wish to kill others will find a way. That's been true for literally every organism and every species on this planet since life came to exist. It also turns out, though, that a shark's desire to kill me is a substantially smaller threat than it otherwise might be were it armed with an AR-15.

Furthermore, in no other debate is your flawed reasoning considered by anyone to be an intellectually valid reason to throw our arms in the air in exasperation and declare that there's nothing we can do. People kill others? Great! Let's take murder off the books. People fly airlines into buildings? Great! Let's not allow the cockpit doors to lock, because what's the fucking point? Blind people can't see? Awesome! Let's let them drive. People can manufacture the ingredients necessary to make homemade bombs? Sweet -- can't wait until I can buy C4 at Walmart.

So from your perspective, what should the US do with guns?

I don't want to outlaw all guns. I think the 2nd amendment is important and we shouldn't forget that.

Instead, I think the process to obtain them, generally, should be quite a bit more onerous and reflect the gravity of the decision. This process should much more closely resemble buying a house and getting a mortgage than buying a six-pack. I think the bar should be raised even higher for individuals who show warning signs, and I think it should be quite a bit easier for the people who see these warning signs to feed that information back into the process.

I do think that certain types of firearms and modifications should actually be outlawed. Here I'm thinking about things like high-capacity magazines, bump stocks, semi-automatic rifles, etc, that enable the significantly higher casualty rates we see in these incidents. These items serve no useful purpose towards the ends of self-defense, nor of hunting. We all seem to be in agreement that the 2nd amendment doesn't endow me with the right to bear nuclear arms or an Apache attack helicopter and I think we need to dispel with the notion that all firearms are created equally.

I think that buying a gun should be a solemn affair. Moreso, I think that talking about your gun, showing off your gun on social media, or treating it like it's an extension of your masculinity shouldn't be a common occurrence. I think we should strive for a place in which these are the warning signs that show us something is amiss, rather than an ingrained part of certain parts of gun culture.

I think we need to have a serious discussion about why a cop who kills an innocent man in a hotel room because of mistaken identity has "You're fucked" on his stock. I think we need to have a serious discussion about why Alex Jones has mods that have labeled his safety a "safe space" and others that say "liberal tears". I think we need to have a serious discussion about why the NRA remains silent when concealed carriers like Philando Castile are killed by the state, but don't bat an eye spending money to produce videos in which they pretend to light the New York Times on fire and smash televisions with sledgehammers.

I could debate with you this "emotional" argument. But "emotion" is the slayer of logic.

What would you do about guns in the US?

"I don't", "I think", "I feel" blah blah blah. "we need to have a serious discussion" Yada, fucking Yada.

What the fuck would you do?

You are now the supreme ruler of the earth, what do you do?

I can't teach you how to read, nor how to act in good faith. That part's on you and you've failed miserably while also failing to address any of the points I've made throughout this back and forth.

Mate It's pure manipulation of the masses on one level or another, the flaws are designed is such a way that society will always be fucked no matter what.

well said

That’s a bit dramatic. What we see here is definitely a sort of cultural virus or meme. Disaffected, depressed or unstable young men used to just hang themselves in their bedroom, but for the last ~20 years they’ve increasingly taken the blaze of glory route. There also seems to be a sick fascination with the “high score” death toll they’re able to rack up. I don’t know why it began or how to stop it, but it seems to be a self-perpetuating thing. Each new shooter is more inspiration for the next.

Apparently the suspect was already being treated for mental health issues, without success. Would this kind of person willingly go looking for help to begin with? If not, don't give them access to military grade weapons.

Yeah, for sure. The proliferation, glorification and mindblowing ease of availability of guns in the US has nothing to do with any of this stuff.

guns were easier to get 50 yrs ago.

Sure, but they're still very easy to obtain. You honestly don't think that's a factor?

If the problem was guns, then we would have seen more gun violence when guns were easier to get and more prevalent in society. But that is not the case. As guns have become harder to get, gun related violence has gone up. Dont you find that odd? Its as if there is something else causing gun violence instead of guns causing gun violence because, you know, guns do not have consciousness nor will.

Oh, I definitely agree that it's a combination of things, including mental illness, media, disenfranchisement, social exclusion... But I think the backdrop of 2nd amendment, NRA political supremacy and resulting ease of access (relative to most of the rest of the world) is a huge enabling factor.

You keep talking about "ease of access" and how it contributes to gun violence, but there was a period of time not that long ago where ease of access was even greater and we never saw school shootings.

Ease of access is irrelevant if people are sane and well adjusted.

I dont know why some people stay so fixated on the tool used by mentally unhealthy people to commit acts of terror instead of figuring out why we have so many mentally unhealthy people.

If we dont fix the culture problem that produces mentally unstable people, there are no laws that can make us safe.

The problem is you can never have 100% of people who are sane, well-adjusted and not homicidal. And so when those outliers decide to go on a rampage, that's when ease of access to weapons (not tools, weapons) becomes a huge factor. What's obvious to most of the rest of the world is not obvious to Americans. And that's partly because of the weird sanctity guns are considered to have because of the country's origins.

So why do you want to punish the millions of innocent people that lawfully own and use guns just to address the small percentage of dangerous people?

Punish? Ha. I'm only suggesting that more effective regulation would save lives. It works with driving cars and piloting aircraft. But apparently ease of access to guns is valued more highly than working towards preventing thousands and thousands of violent deaths. In fact, the gun fetishism is so mindbogglingly entrenched that people suggest mass shootings are hoaxes as a pre-emptive response to imagined gun control. I mean, wow.

I agree criminals should never own guns. I agree crazy people should never own guns.

Guess what? Those laws already exist.

Should we make it harder for law abiding people to have and use guns?

Guess what? Those laws already exist.

lol People with mental illness can only be prevented from purchasing firearms under two circumstances: they've been involuntarily committed to a psych hospital, or if a court or government body declares them mentally incompetent.

In a quiet moment, try sincerely asking yourself whether you think that actually protects people. Seriously. Anyway, thanks for the chat.

do any laws actually protect anyone from anything?

Haha, yeah good point. What even is reality? Maybe we're actually goldfish or someone else's dream. [prolonged gibberish]

I've been thinking along these same lines. It's not guns, before 1968 guns were unbelievably easy to get (as in mail order) and there was so little security anywhere. You could literally carry a gun on a plane and nobody would know because we didn't even have airline security.

There's something about the nature of life in America that's causing people to go off the rails with anger and frustration. I don't know what it is, economics, politics, smartphone/internet-focused social relationships, and/or the rotten synergy of all that and other things.

My most recent thoughts (just before I heard about this shooting in fact) was how little tolerance modern life has for even minor issues -- make a mistake at any stage in your life and you run the risk of personal and financial ruin, or if you're young enough and don't have much yet to lose, you just get eliminated from any chance at improving your life and get slotted into a perpetual second rate life of low-wage employment at best. It's not hard to see how this kind of zero-sum, no-second-chances kind of structure makes people go TILT.

It would almost be comforting to have some kind of grand conspiracy explain it, instead I fear there is no conspiracy "in control" and that it's actually some kind of emergent phenomenon of modern life. There may be actual conspiracies or forces in control of elements that lead to the emergent phenomenon but they are more basic (making the rich richer, etc) and people going off the rails is just a higher order byproduct, not an intended outcome.

well.said!

Maybe the masses shouldn't be able to purchase military grade weapons and unlimited ammunition? You know, just an idea. Please don't talk to me about fucking taking up arms as protection from the government. Your government doesn't serve your interests and never has. If a militia was going to defend the ppl it would have happened by now. Give up the stupid fucking guns and find a real fucking hobby.

what is your approved hobby?

Literally just about anything else.

Why do you have an irrational fear of an inanimate object? Have you sought counseling for said fear?

The fear is based on people with the inability to make good, rational decisions regarding such a tool. A tool of war. Not a toy, a tool of war. Why would any normal, level headed person need a rapid fire weapon? Hunting deer? Fighting insurgents? Come on man. Have your guns for hunting. Give up handguns and assault rifles, restrict ammunition quantity and register the guns. Even if this kid wasn't able to fire as many bullets it would have given them time to escape or disarm him. He shouldn't have been able to buy any gun without extensive training and screening. There's the fix for the problem but grown ass children refuse to grow up and take responsibility to correct the issue. Maybe when you have to look at your child with a huge hole in their head and brains on the floor, you'll finally get it.

Do you have the same fear of cars? Cars are used to murder people and far more people die in auto accidents each year than by guns. Why have you picked guns to fear and not other things that are far more likely to kill you?

Seriously? How do you compare a gun with a car? Smh At least were improving cars (self driving, airbags, seat belts, etc. What changes have gun nuts made? they refuse to even acknowledge the problem. Register? No! Restrict access? No! It would be funny if it was so sad and pathetic.

You are avoiding answering the questions. This tells me your struggling to answer the question because youre starting to realize how irrational you are and now youre doing all you can to avoid answer the questions because they make you uncomfortable. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch huh?

Do you have the same fear of cars? Cars are used to murder people and far more people die in auto accidents each year than by guns. Why have you picked guns to fear and not other things that are far more likely to kill you?

Here's your answer so take it or leave it. No i don't fear cars. A car is built with the purpose of transportation. A gun is made to exterminate life, and mame. In the western world, we need cars for transportation. You know what we don't need? GUNS! It's funny how you mention cognitive dissonance when you sit there literally ignoring every single point being made because, MURICA! There's no fucking dictator waiting to take your imagined freedom away. You know what there is though? Millions of deranged people on the brink of snapping and killing innocent people. One percent of the population suffers from psychopathy That means there are likely at least 3+ million psychopaths in America. Psychopaths with easy unlimited access to tools of war. Now that I've answered your question, honestly answer this one. Why on Earth would any rational peace loving person WANT a semi-automatic weapon? I hope your answer makes it worth the massive casualties they cause every day in America.

You know what there is though? Millions of deranged people on the brink of snapping and killing innocent people.

Why does America have so many crazy people? What is it about American society that creates so many homicidal people? Maybe we should address that instead of the tools they use to kill people?

I have many semi auto weapons. Ive got so many I probably cant account for some of them. I own them for two reasons: to kill someone that wants to harm me and to piss people like you off.

That's very mature. The 1% number is globally. It's a human issue. So why are there more mass shootings in America than anywhere else? ACCESS TO FUCKING GUNS. You don't like the answer so you're ignoring the solution. You just proved my point about immature ignorant people owning firearms. Do you have your life threatened often? Are you always scared of people wanting to kill you? Have you sought help for this irrational fear? That's called schizophrenia. You might need therapy/ meds and you probably shouldn't own firearms.

You really have no idea what youre talking about lol!

You dont know what the words you are using even mean. How can someone take you seriously when youre using words incorrectly?

You seem a little unstable. I hope you dont own guns.

"How can anyone take you seriously?" Says the guy arguing against gun control who leaves assault rifles laying around unaccounted for. That's some top notch logic. You can't properly argue my points so now you're going to pick apart my choice of words. Classic sign the argument is won. Welp! Good luck when they come to take your guns! Spoiler alert. They're better armed than you. No matter how many assault rifles you leave laying around.

I never said I leave them laying around. Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said they are unaccounted for. They are in safes, I just dont know off the top of my head how many I have.

I never argued against gun control. You are imagining that I am. Did you know that it is already illegal for mentally ill people, drug users and felons to own guns? I agree with that gun control. I agree with background checks. We already have a lot of gun control laws and I agree with them. So I dont know where you get the idea Im arguing against gun control.

Oh, wait, I do know where you get that idea: your imagination.

Youre using strawmen, putting words in my mouth and misusing words.

You really should stop before you embarrass yourself further. But you wont, you feel compelled to get the last word because of your fragile psyche. So go ahead, get the last word. It will be word you misuse, but go ahead and use it anyway. Youll feel better.

What word are you even talking about? Why are you so obsessed with it? If you agree with me, why are you arguing with me?

words.

You dont know what an assault rifle is.

You dont know what schizophrenia is.

You dont know what "arguing against" means.

You dont even appear to have an understanding of current gun control legislation.

Im not arguing with you. Im educating you. You should thank me and walk away from this conversation feeling less dumb than when you started it.

The main difference is the extended clip, better grips and and the ability to fire semi automatically instead of one shot at a time then manually reloading. Schizophrenia is a disease where the person often hears voices, and is delusional about the people around him wanting to harm him. So... You. Idk what this arguing against foolishness is so i can't speak to it. Also gun control varies from state to state. So because your state might be more strict, most others aren't.

facepalm.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-clip-and-vs-magazine/

You mean "magazine" not "clip". How does someone take you seriously when you dont know anything about the subject you are arguing about? Youve done nothing but display gross misunderstanding of the topic this entire discussion.

I've been across ppl like you during my union organising days. You can't argue my points so you're trying to antagonize me into name calling. I don't care to learn the intricacies of gun ownership and the exact terminology. I don't need to know the exact difference between a magazine and a clip to know that they are used to kill innocent children. You obviously understood what i was talking about but chose to ignore the point at hand out of convenience. So what was wrong about my definitions beside the exact terminology? Argue the points.

how do we argue points when you dont understand the words used in the discussion?

I'm too baked for this amount redardery.

well shit bro, why didnt you say you were a left handed smoker?!?!?

its all good my friend. im with you. fuck guns and the idiots that use them!

Compare it to the social and cultural issues of the past that have destroyed cultures and civilizations. China as the sick man of Asia, Ottomans as the sick man of Europe, the fall of what should have been unstoppable Rome, and the self destruction of the British Empire. The difference is that America is new and has been subverted into self-hatred. There is no rational alternative to American rule, even it's enemies understand that.

American society has somehow always been susceptible to self-polarization, but when faced with a proper adversary, that enemy will regret ever getting on their bad side. Look at Europe post WW1. Fought each other over colonial control, gave it all up, fought each other in two wars that were less harmful to their main proponents than those less involved. Western society recognizes in it's entirety, it's main problems. However western thought encourages special pleading and excuses things until they reach their boiling point. After whatever mess is made and cleaned up, prosperity will be returned and the cycle will repeat.

Right now that problem is prescription drugs and prescription drug abuse. Which is sad to see and pathetic for the greatest country in the world. Nobody wants to acknowledge the reality of it. There is no such thing as mental health issues besides people who truly are disturbed and are predisposed to violence, etc, etc.

Our greatest strengths are our greatest weaknesses.

Its a window in the classroom, why not get out by the window instead of sitting on the floor or hiding under a desk?

P sure he was on like the third floor

So what? I would rather break my ankle then get shot

I really have a hard time believing that once you'd be looking out the window you'd have no problem hurling yourself out.

I guess (and thankfully so) that we’ll never know this answer unless we were in that situation. In my mind I’ll take the courageous way out and think that I would jump myself. In my head it makes sense, but who knows if adrenaline would kick in, would I chicken out? Not sure, but I’d like to think I’d do whatever it takes to survive.

No way to stop this. You can't arrest POI for a crime they haven't committed yet and that's only if they're already flagged. Any military or LEO experienced with a gun can train someone to use a weapon in a day. Even of you outlawed high capacity fire arms it would probably take about 200 years for them to be 25% confiscated and even then all you've done is outlaw the 99.9% of gun owners who are responsible from protecting themselves and their families

Girl interviewed at 3:46 PM on WSVN was correct in her claim regarding the fire drill last week. The alarm today was set off by the shooter so students would run out of classrooms and into the line of fire.

Dammit, this isn't an anger issue, he planned this shit

The point was she said they ("we") had a fire drill last week but that she doesn't go there she graduated she was just visiting that day? How does she know about the fire drill if she doesn't go there?

She still has friends at the school. That's a one line conversation in any group text.

"I knew something was off cause we just had a fire drill last week."

Fake news is easy to sell when there's people desperate to buy it.

The twins who were just calmly interviewed on NPR said they’d never had a fire drill before... So weird.

Yep caught this one too.

In this student interview he claims they had a fire drill today prior to when the shooter pulled the alarm. He then claims that when they ran out of the school there was a police car and ambulance already there.

https://youtu.be/V_ij4beRVqI

A lot of these interviews don't seem to be on the same page about the fire drill.

Do you know how much confusion and misinformation gets spread around a high school on a normal day? Now amplify it by a million and of course you're gonna have young kids saying incorrect things when broadcasted to millions of people. Stop vulturing.

Earlier today, when I first heard the news on AM radio a student being interviewed said there was a fire drill this morning. He then said that was the reason he thought the fire alarm going off this afternoon was another drill, then he heard banging shots. The way he explained it, he said he thought it was part of the drill.

No conspiracy theory pisses me off more than people saying school shootings are false flags or set ups. The world is crazy. School aged kids are the most emotional/impressionable people there are. It’s scary but these things are very real. There would probably be even more of these if more kids had access to guns and had the (using the term very loosely) “courage” to act on the desire to do something like this.

To say that these innocent kids ( a la Sandy Hook) died as a result of a politically motivated charade is ignorant and ridiculous.

The official narrative of Sandy Hook is holier than swiss cheese. They didn't even take any kids to the hospital.

Why would you take a bunch of dead kids to a hospital?

protocol and law

So, in your opinion, those dead kids were.......left in the school/demo'd with the building? Or, do you believe the public had the right to see them load vans up with dead kids?

It's not about the public, it's about getting shot up kids in front of a doctor asap for some CPR. You know, like what happened today.

You know the photos we saw today were mostly not taken by MSM. And that this was a high school full of kids with cell phones.

Sandy Hook was elementary school kids. They are never going to intentionally show little children being worked on in a parking lot on the regular news.

That's fair, they shouldn't.

Because where else would you take bodies? The hospital is where the morgue is. Autopsy’s need to be performed, all that kind of stuff.

No. In the case of a crime, they go to the Coroner's office. Where I live, that's not at the hospital.

When your relative keels over in your living room, they go to the morgue.

No one knows every detail of Sandy Hook or any other similar tragedy. Or of any news story for that matter. Just because you don’t know about a detail doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and just because you think you know something or saw it reported doesn’t make it true. I’m all for a good conspiracy but if you think someone had a bunch of little kids murdered for a political agenda you’re fucked in the head and have watched too many amateur YouTube videos .

Actually I think no kids were killed at Sandy Hook, so I'm bringing you good news. I have 20 or 30 details that make sense in no other context but false flag. But I'm not here to sell it. This sub is full of great info about it if you care to learn more about my perspective.

Hell of a lot of really good crisis actors in that set up then

Actually tons of them were terrible. Robbie Parker cracked a smile, Gene Rosen had to be coached and couldn't keep the story straight, and at the firehouse they were blatantly walking in circles.

So every parent was a fake. Every kids picture, that kid either never existed or disappeared? Every teacher was in on it because obviously they would’ve called bluff if they used a picture of a kid that didn’t go there. Every kid that went to school there was in on it because they too would’ve realized those “dead” kids weren’t their classmates. Every cop, EMT, doctor, nurse and public official in the city was in on it.

A school shooting isn’t something you can fake. People think the moon landing was fake, whatever, thats plausible. Not 27 people/kids being murdered, plus an additional with the dead gunman.

hahahaaaa thr moon landing can be faked but not a school shooting? good one.

I said it’s plausible for someone to believe that, mainly referring to someone in this sub believing that. I don’t think it was fake at all, but I would believe it was fake before I believe that no one died in Sandy Hook.

Seems irrational to me, but to each his own.

Dude, you think even the school was a fake? Are you actually serious? That would require almost the entire city to be in on it. That’s probably the craziest, most unrealistic conspiracy theory I’ve seen on this sub.

I've heard stuff about it being condemned for asbestos or mold prior to the event. I've also heard about many homes in town being purchased for people or many purchases on the same date. Yes that stuff is crazy, but there's more than enough wrong with the facts of that day to call it a false flag, without having to get into the whys and whatfors and root causes and strategies leading up to that day.

Look up photos of the school. It was pretty clearly not in use.

I just cannot see any way that you could fake an event of this magnitude by using a fake school? How would local residents not know it was in use? How do you fake an entire school of teachers, students, staff, cops, EMTs, etc?

Literally impossible.

Actually I think no kids were killed at Sandy Hook, so I'm bringing you good news

good news? good grief.

Please at least do us a solid and resist the urge to harass the parents of these dead children.

"Just because you don't know about a detail, doesn't mean it didn't happen." Exactly. So go do more research on Shady Hook.

Great logic. Kind of the same as those who say “don’t believe everything you hear” from media, government, law officials, etc.... yet believe everything they hear in regards to conspiracies.

Can I ask.. what would be the point of lying about Sandy Hook? Who did it benefit if it was a false flag?

I don't know and maybe it's not even that important. The point is that our authority figures are criminals and that they use us like cattle. But aside from that, imo, it was used to pass gun control legislation and to generally increase the police state and divide us with fear.

Pretty bad job of accomplishing their goal considering 10 states relaxed their gun control laws while only 5 passed stricter laws.

Fair criticism of my argument, but again it's not our job to find root causes, it's just our job to prove whether a conspiracy occurred.

You have done neither

agreed

School shootings have been going on since Columbine and before.... what gun legislation that has any real impact has passed as a result? Zero.

Any progress is real progress to certain folks.

Gun violence has dropped 40% in Connecticut since Sandy Hook forced tighter gun laws.

Do you have a source? If it’s true this is a great argument for gun control

Its because there hasn't been any real legislation, but the threat of legislation. This has greatly benefited gun manufacturers.

After Sandy Hook many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

Its because there hasn't been any real legislation, but the threat of legislation. This has greatly benefited gun manufacturers.

After Sandy Hook many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

Gun manufacturers.

After the tragedy many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

Gun manufacturers.

After the tragedy many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

Gun manufacturers.

After the tragedy many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

Gun manufacturers.

After the tragedy many people thought there would be gun legislation. This causes a buying frenzy of guns which many think will be taken off shelves. The constant idea of Obama coming for a guns resulted in record sales.

The authoritarians who want to shift the public perception of guns and fear were the beneficiaries. Also, the "victims" are beneficiaries when you count how much money is being donated still.

They didn't even take any kids to the hospital.

That's not true. several inurred were taken to hospital. the already dead were not

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/danbury-hospital-school-shooting_n_2304756

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/26/nyregion/26newtown-report.html

Thank you for the info.

Huffpo:

At around 10:30 a.m., three patients arrived, one after the other. Hospital officials were tight-lipped because of medical privacy rules, but according to reports, two children were pronounced dead within its walls.

The DA report:

Both wounded staff members shot in the hallway were later evacuated to the hospital and survived.

So at most 2 kids went to the hospital? Hmmm.

The kids of sandy hook were so riddled with bullets and obviously dead that most weren't transported.

That doesn't make it fake. It makes it inconceivably horrifying.

Too bad you can't prove them because the records were sealed with special Sandy Hook only laws. So 20 something perfect kills from an amateur shooter? hmm.

Mate have you done ANY research on Sandy Hook? The deep state didn't even try to cover it up on that one

Seriously

Yea I mean I love conspiracies and all but this is a few minutes from my house and definitely real..

Sandy hook was a fabricated event.

This was not. Neither was columbine..

I haven't seen much of that regarding this incident to be honest.

The fact that Vegas shooting disappeared from the news quickly and school shootings don't .. they even have the same looking kids who died in the super bowl half time show... should be a clue that something pretty f'd up is going on.

School shootings don't leave the news as early because its a school fucking shooting. Also I don't disagree with you that it disappeared quickly, I'm just pointing out why SSs stay in the news longer.

I've got some questions about that shot up laptop screen...

link?

https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=9ff_1518644376

What are your questions?

Would have made a lot more sense to just... Oh, I don't know... Ask them, instead of saying that you have questions and then waiting on us to ask you so that you can then tell us. Seems like kinda of a waste of time.

Thank you, same here but it just gets dismissed immediately. This is a good piece of evidence.

Like how is it still open like that after being shot? Not closed, or flipped the other way, or fell to the ground...

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPwVYhjVCt3YSrTbmSM_sB-HzYhtOWd81QwI5rgsKTiDuIHkCf-ZDOjHyv03eO5mg/photo/AF1QipPycfsr3jgnaSLmBCx8K5ijOJKjo00a7W9C1gPv?key=MllRbjlidjRWVFQzVlV1V3RxX2tUcUtCbXJhMnh3

He’s under all that shit

There is clearly not a body on there.

There’s is clearly not NOT a body as well. I see what you mean though, but I think he’s just buried under all that crap but the white sheet makes it look like an empty stretcher

Okay I'm gonna need you to take off your tinfoil hat.

Its MSM saying he’s on that stretcher not any official source trying to claim he’s on it. We should know by now these media broadcasters make shit up as they go along.

CNN and msnbc said he was brought in a cop car and they followed the car. he was not in an ambulance

And the fist bump at the end. WTF?

Suspect wore a MAGA had in his Instagram profile pic. Hmmm

I haven't seen the MAGA hat picture yet... any proof?

https://web.archive.org/web/20180214215135/https://www.instagram.com/nikolascruzmakarov

Tasty! I had read of students saying he would wear the hat and that he also wore extreme "patriotic" shirts.

Kid is barely out of highschool and has enough guns for a militia. Crazy.

This has been debunked a few hours ago. actual IG account photos

That's supposedly an old one. It hasn't been debunked cause the one with the MAGA hat is supposedly recent

So recent that it was created the day of the shooting? That recent?

Where do you see that. I've only seen the archived page

He had two IG accounts. It wasn't debunked at all, it's been confirmed.

Why didn’t you show the profile pic in that screenshot?

It's not my screen shot. All accounts have been taken down. The MAGA hat account was created the day of the shooting, I read. Which is highly suspect.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/leader-white-nationalist-group-confirmed-suspect-florida-school-53115589

This confirms he wore s MAGA hat

I mean, when your source is 4chan and an attention seeking white nationalist, nothing is confirmed. DEBUNKED.

1. She said they had a fire drill earlier that day, not week.

2. I was working in a different school today that also had a practice. They are common and it may have been a county wide practice for the day.

3. I saw the same interview live earlier and nothing seemed suspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlPDTvjBbu0

scroll through the comments on this

Holy freaking hell. I legit have chills. Everyone needs to see the comments section. Don’t need to watch the vid. Just - Sweet Jesus in a taxicab... nine months ago??!?!? Not a false flag. Legit madman. Thanks @TheRealSteveBlackman for posting. A million upvotes!

Did you screenshot it? I don't see it anymore

Here.

Around 3 Years ago some kid was commenting on a song called “The Anatomy of a School Shooter” and was talking about shooting up his school. I found out where he lived by looking at his google account and googled high schools in that area. I than contacted people who went there by typing it in on Facebook. Within a day they caught him. He was a little fucked up kid doing school shootings on Minecraft. Within a day ! Within only one day they figured out who he was and came to his house. How come nick Cruz wasn’t investigated ?

Who leaks these photos so quickly?

Wow

Well this is creepy

Whoever is directing the narrative.

Funny you say that because I've been hearing completely scripted kids reading minute by minute descriptions of what they went through on Hannity tonight. Surely doesn't help the false flag theories.

Creepy skeezy murderer fuck.

Or....... guy suffering with severe mental health problems....

Admittedly yes he is a murderer and justice needs served. But mental heath needs much more understanding

dude is absolutely wigged out of his mind holy shit

I'd like to think I'd be pretty messed up after an event like this.

Maybe it's like James Holmes who was obviously mindbroke.

I think he means he’s fucked up on some sort of drug. Maybe not, but to me and my somewhat extensive knowledge on the effects of drugs, the kid looks like he’s tweaked as fuck. Those bags under his eyes show lack of sleep, and if that isn’t a sign of some drug usage idk what is.

Not saying everyone with bags like that is on drugs, just throwing out possibilities.

"90% of school shootings linked to psych drugs"

I always assume cops do it to make a quick buck.

Is he wearing the high school's shirt for his attempted blend-in? Absolute maniac.

Anybody feel disturbed when they look at photos of these murderers and always see them with orange hair?.....

is he wearing a school jrotc shirt?

Anoyher shooting anoghrr conspiracy. What are you going to do if its true? Nothing.

What are you going to do if it's a hoax? Nothing.

😂😂

How do you know those are both his (ig accounts)?

They seem opposite...something's not right.

The one thing that baffles me is the arrest video. Yeah i know its a short clip just showing him on the ground and getting cuffed but its so gentle, calm and just out of the ordinary. He was supposed to have had a gas mask, smoke grenades and a AR-15 and he gets arrested in shorts and a red tee? How did they know it was him with the hundreds of others fleeing?

I was thinking the same, and the quality of that video couldnt have been any clearer. wtf really

I think the video is fine, nothing sketch like it proves he was caught somewhere where there is a public accessed road in or around the campus that wasnt closed off and its pretty amateur just the apprehension was very mellow.

He snuck out with the escapees but was caught at a house nearby since he was the prime suspect. Apparently it was common knowledge that he might shoot up the school, as current students named him when talking to reporters.

How did he blend in with the crowd if he had an AR, gas mask, and smoke Grenada’s on him? That part of the story doesn’t make sense for me.

I am guessing he set that stuff down before trying to blend in.

He dumped his vest and weapons in a stairwell. He’s admitted all this to police.

I haven't seen any footage or news relating to the incident, but if it was a false flag or hoax shooting, of course they are gonna pick the kid that fits the personality of school shooter. The Feds entrap Middle Eastern people in just the same way. They target people who are most likely to 1) comply with initial requests and who are 2) most likely to be believed as the perpetrator.

I’ll set up a theoretical for you;

I’m the shooter, i go to the school wearing my red shirt and jeans. I have with me all my things needed to pull off the most dumb and heartless plan I’ve ever devised(weapon,smoke grenades for some reason, and a gas mask). I then shoot random people and when it’s all over and I feel accomplished, I take my things and I drop them on the ground and walk away.

During this process, every person that I haven’t killed and got a decent look at me knows that i wore the red shirt and jeans, and maybe even more, such as my bright red hair and freckles.

Basically what I’m saying is it’s not all that surprising that they found him so fast and that it’s not all that crazy of an idea that he would drop his shit off before he decided to walk back home or wherever the hell he was headed.

I agree with what youre saying 100%. I edited my comment last night to correct my original statement due to more information being released about the entire arrested and how it unfolded how it did. I guess i just found it weird because with most mass shootings you dont actually see an arrest, you find out that they either killed themselves or got shot by a cop and seeing him just calmly get arrested was just surprising.

I can totally believe this could be staged, but what boggles me is why. Why stage such an atrocity? What's the goal or agenda?

Very interesting that in a conspiracy sub people are already bashing those who are skeptical of the original narrative. Much like when Las Vegas happened.

Food for thought.

This feels like a teen sub and an MSM media site comment board. It's disgusting.

What's disgusting is the people immediately calling hoax and false flag.

You're in a fuckin conspiracy sub. What do expect people who like to question everything discuss? Take your bullshit sympathy and mainstream narrative elsewhere, it's disgusting. You apologists are on every thread repeating the same bullshit. It's annoying, click unsubscribe then. Go to r/news if you want people to feel bad for you.

Threads like these are more just general discussion about anything regardless. I think everyone here is part of the community and just wants to talk about the event here on this sub. It happened hours ago so we don't know enough shit yet so people jumping to conclusions are naive as fuck. Lets all just discuss this and realize how sad our country is.

Apologist for being rational? Sorry you want this to be an echo chamber.

Exactly

Noticed that too.

Agree I came here looking for all the discussion about the girl who said she was walking with the suspect when it startef and the 4 others who all said multiple shooters. Nope top of the list I'd anyone questions anything their an idiot.

I was disgusted to see this post at the top this morning. There is a lot to look at here and there are things that do not make sense like the magical laptop that stays on when shot 3 times and doesn't budge.

"But there was no video"

This one has video

"It's fake.

"But they never show any bodies/wounds"

This one we've seen bodies/wounds

"But they are fake"

"They aren't telling us everything"

well, this is a developing story and they don't have all the information yet. If they release information now it may be inaccurate.

"The news reports are inconsistent"

What the fuck did I just say?

"But gun control is trending on twitter"

No shit.

The video clearly shows a laptop that has defied all laws of physics. 3 shots in the screen, screen is still on, and the base is unmoved. Screen goes out with the first shot in reality.

You're literally more retarded than that alt-righter who did what all alt-righters dream of doing.

True. The laptop unless it was in a different position totally didnt move. Im going to do a forensic analysis on that frame. Look for debris or a trajectory of movement marks on the desk. Anyone have the original video?

I shot an older thicker laptop (old IBM thinkpad) twice and the screen stayed on until the next shot which was between the screen and battery. So that is not necessarily true.

It is a boy who cried wolf situation. This is the least suspect of the countless mass shootings since 2012 (in terms of conspiracy theory), naturally people will compare it to the unexplainable and conflicting events of the last while (Vegas, Sandy Hook). Constant social media documentation of every moment of the lives of people who use those platforms has been going on for a few years but none of the high profile crime cases have had as much go out so quickly. Considering it took place in a high school it isn't surprising that it was recorded on social media, but that doesn't excuse people who play the other massacres off as false flags because it wasn't on video.

People react and over react every time, but it seems we never get a real explanation. Many people passing this off as a "real shooting" since he was taken alive, yet a few years ago those same people claimed the Aurora shooting was a conspiracy yet he was taken alive too and had a curious background. Biggest problem in this community is early reaction and taking lack of clear evidence as evidence of something nefarious, or alternatively confirmation bias based off of some obscure detail.

98% of the comments above this one are fake. Read it from the top down. After every sentence ask yourself how that line could be used to manipulate your thoughts. The psychological and emotional impact of each line has an interesting cascading effect, made to make exacting use of reddit's format in order to direct your thought processes in the desired direction. This is where a huge amount of our black budget spending goes these days.

The question is "How do we stop this, Why did this happen?"

For the past couple of decades we have glorified war (Iraq/Afghanistan). We have made the military/police to look like "heros" The government has given the narrative that our soldiers need to kill the bad guys to protect us, when in fact it's just business for the military industrial complex. This is what happens when you glorify war. You make killing ok, insignificant, and in some cases rewarded (like American Sniper) and at some point people are going to "take action" on who they see as the bad guys.

I blame rap music. Especially autotune. And video games.

It's only getting worse. There's was a brief moment in human history when we could at least convince most people that killing each other is wrong, but Gen Z is completely decentralized to mass murder and blood.

It was a good run anyway

I bet those kids running out of the school to see the police armed to the teeth ready to end the asshole that killed there friends thought of the police as heroes. So yea, they kind of are.

IMO, this is what happens when you’re a shitty ass person and decide to do something life-changingly stupid. I honestly don’t see anyway that we could have stopped a person from doing something like this given how easy it is to do/get anything at all nowadays. It’s a sad fact.

America is sick ...

Is it me, or all of these kids doing interviews for the evening shows sound like they're reading off of a pice of paper. Maybe the right down what they want to say, but seems weird.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ff_1518644376

listen to these screams. Now imagine hearing it irl. Now imagine having to talk to scummy reporters who don't care about your well being and want you to remember exactly what happened in great detail.

This society is sick. It is destined for destruction if we stay on this path.

I loathe reporters due to this very reason, I mean, how the fuck do you think they feel?

Your comment reminds me of the reporters interviewing people during the Harvey floods in Houston. "You just lost everything, how are you feeling right now?"

I'm in the wrong sub, so the context may seem off, but I think the question still stands. I've just never heard anyone be asked a question and read off multiple paragraphs of their accounts.

Was this a gun free zone??

Seems like they are listening through their earpiece and looking around as they try to recall

Schools tend to be, quit trolling.

Did the suspect ever graduate even if at that alternative school? A GED?

Did he buy those guns with a part-time job?

we don't know how many or what guns he used. could've been a very cheap army surplus semi rifle.

Well that's real gun fire. Are these kids who shoot up schools that imposing that nobody could sneak up behind this fuck? I mean it's been done in the past by others.

I’m here from out of town.. the local media is showing some real footage from cell phones. This is legit, not a sandy hook. I’m still in shock.

The laptop proves this was just a drill. This sub is a conspiracy sub, if this makes you uncomfortable then your in the wrong place.

there wouldn't be the same level of cell phone footage from an elementary school. teachers aren't going to stop protecting students to record and 7 year olds don't have a phone on their person.

any info about whether this dude was on psychoactive medication?

Hard to watch? Lol you clearly haven't been to bestgore.

Not hard to watch? You obviously have no empathy. Don't be proud of that, idiot.

lol I am , I'd throw you in front of a bus then shit on your face as you gasped for air then go to your house and pretend like I cared about you to your family until I gained their trust and then I'd eat your wife's heart while fucking your daughter.

OK, is nobody going to talk about the time stamped article showing a story of the shooting? Time stamp makes it out to about 10 am. Shooting was at 2:30 pm. https://imgur.com/kIStkAZ

Happens just about every time with a wide variety of stories. You gotta ask yourself if it's more likely that news media puts stories online hours ahead of time and nobody ever notices until after the fact, or maybe the timestamp is just inaccurate.

For the most part this seems pretty logical to me. Having been through high school recently, I've been through a fire drill, the students and staff are sitting ducks durring fire drills. I would be lying if I said that most school shooter jokes weren't being made during fire drills. Can't wait for this to be turned into gun control propaganda, and forgotten about in a month.

As someone mentioned in the comments... at my school fire drills the alarm was going off. Why is the alarm not going off in any of the videos?

Fire drill = fire alarms Videos = no alarms

Valentine told me who's to go. The teachers and the football stars. Benny and Judy down.

What does this mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4R8HTIgHUU

Lyrics

Valentine told me who's to go

Feelings he treasured most of all

The teachers and the football stars

It's in his tiny face

It's in his scrawny hands

Valentine sold his soul

He's got something to say

It's Valentine's day

The rhythm of the crowd

Benny and Judy down

Valentine sees it all

He's got something to say

It's Valentine's day

Valentine told me how he feels

If all the world were under his heels

Or stumbling through the mall

It's in his tiny face

It's in his scrawny hands

Valentine knows it all

He's got something to say

It's Valentine's day

Valentine, Valentine

Valentine, Valentine

It's in his scrawny hands

It's in his icy heart

It's happening today

Valentine, Valentine

It's in his scrawny hands

It's in his icy heart

It's happening today

Valentine, Valentine

did they catch the shooter? i live in FL this happened about 25 min from where i live .. despicable .. any chance this is a false flag?

I'd give it an 80% possibility that this is a false flag. Still early though.

So this has bothered me. This is another account. https://www.instagram.com/cruz_nikolas._

Earlier it had over a thousand followers and way more following and had the same profile picture as the original suspected account. Now the account has a different profile picture but still definitely either the same person or somebody took a pic from one of the other accounts. Can people follow it and see if they get accepted? It's either a troll account made today or just flat out that first account and this one are run by totally different people than the shooter.

This is why you should screenshot these things. As soon as something like this goes down you are in a race with the scrubbers.

Yeah, whenever stuff like this happens I bounce between caring and saving and screenshotting everything and deleting all my tweets and pictures and forgetting about it.

Is the deep state media even trying anymore? Fucking reporter literally still refers to the patsy (as did the witness apparently because we're living a fucking Black Mirror episode) as a shooter while reporting on his fucking alibi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRG-fVi1iE

Fucking terrorist.

Nevermind, he’s white. So deranged shooter?

Fire alarms tests happen in schools, its normal and some students like to go back and see teachers they had, I did after I graduated.

I think the conspiracy could be why was there no intervention (I assume) if he had such a reputation?

The conspiracy is this was a drill, no one died. The laptop is compelling evidence.

I agree. This is definitely an issue regarding the mental health of young people and where and how the system is failing them.

Where are the fire alarms in the videos. Please link a video where you can hear fire alarms. Fire alarms are very loud.

Another False Flag Hoax folks!

Witnesses with odd stories, contradicting Reports of two Shooters

And laptops that defy bullets!

2-minute video "The Key Points to Surviving a Mass Shooting - Escape, Block and Fight Back"

https://youtu.be/FGasWigWJsY

There are very little details as to what exactly happened in the school shooting in Florida, but these are general guidelines that will hold true in mass shootings like these. I actually filmed this two weeks ago as a part of the proactive self-defense masterclass that will be launched next week, but with this latest crazy school shooting, I just wanted to put it out there. As sad as of a reality as it is, statistically speaking this is going to happen again. I just want to share a couple useful tips about what to do in this situation. My deepest condolences to anyone involved. Such crazy times we live in. If you have questions to ask do so and I'll try to answer as many as possible.

The 4 Chan post that may be him was posted at nearly 7pm yesterday- at which point I believe Nikolas was in custody

How come students are saying that the shooter pulled the fire alarm but none of the videos I’ve seen have the alarm going off ?

Good question this needs to be answered?

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ff_1518644376

"Bullet holes" in computer look fake as fuck. Not only would it shredded it would have been knocked off table, not sitting in same position.

i have been watching the videos and i noticed that you never see anyone who pissed themselves or urinated on the floor etc. and i would imagine most of the injured and at least half of the kids would urinate and/or shit themselves in a closed area, live shooter situation. can anyone point to anyone who pissed or shat themselves in any video?

Apparently he’s on the 1:30pm EST docket in court

Yet another (?) girl claims there were two shooters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRG-fVi1iE

How about we just conclude, between false flags, media incompetency, inaccurate reporting, rumors etc.....we never know the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRG-fVi1iE

Here's another saying the shooter was threatening to kill students back in Sept:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzNwinmBawo&t=

The truth is right in front of your eyes this time via video and images.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/?utm_term=.hizPm3gzg#.vhKebYqZq

Article regarding a new YouTube comment from the shooter

The laptop in the video forced me to think this is just a drill. Also why it's getting all the news coverage.

I've been looking for a list of people who died as a result of the shooting. So far I've found more missing students than actual victims and a few teachers/admin staff who were killed.

Why are all these kids missing, but are showing up in the articles about "17 dead" ?

They are dead, but officially they are missing until identified.

Theres footage on snapchat. if you look at the snapchat maps there was some footage of students screaming with really loud gunshots. Next time a shooting is going on, get on snapchat locate the position and see if anyone has posted publicly. Kids are always recording stuff no matter how hectic things get. I think they have taken some off. But they featured one on the official story.

Broward Health medical professional on tv now: "Nine months ago, we had drills for this"

Superintendent now not giving info on student's background citing privacy concerns.

Sheriff: "There are still bodies in the school"

Wow, poor parents.

FL governor Rick Scott: "Pulse (Orlando) was a terrorist attack." This was not.

Just a question. If this was a planned fire drill. Why are there no fire alarms going of in the videos? Or if the shooter pulled the fire alarm to get people out of the classroom... why cant you hear fire alarms in the video. Maybe there is a video where there are fire alarms that are going off that I have not seen.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200190199.html

Total hoax

I'm confused. My local news app posted the father of one of the victims that posted a message on Facebook about losing his daughter and tagged his wife and son. If you click the wife's facebook she posted an hour ago asking about pot roast recipes and having normal conversations with friends, no mention whatsoever about her daughter lost in the shooting.

ABC just stated the shooter’s Mom recently passed due to the flu. That’s odd to me since I’ve always thought the flu epidemic was BS too

Links?

News confirmation that the shooter pulled the alarm.

As if prevention is their goal..

P sure he was on like the third floor

Always the big pink elephant in the fucking room that.

link?

Odd that the word "truth" now has a negative connotation, isn't it.

Well, he is.

it's still more gathering than analyzing. Don't worry just give it about another two decades and every step you make will be processed in real time by some form of AI.

Open your eyes. That Virginia Reporter shooting is one of the most easily debunked "shootings" out there.

I mean when there are over 600+ million guns in the U.S. and barely .001% cause issues, it's not really something that needs to be fixed.

Fully automatic machineguns (one trigger pull, multiple rounds fired) are perfectly legal in a majority of states for any law abiding citizen to own and a machinegun has NEVER been documented in the use of a crime or any mass shooting in present day history.

Actually I think no kids were killed at Sandy Hook, so I'm bringing you good news. I have 20 or 30 details that make sense in no other context but false flag. But I'm not here to sell it. This sub is full of great info about it if you care to learn more about my perspective.

That's not him.

What are your questions?

Oh, check out all the bills Feinstein tried to take to Congress after that one.

yes i did. youre deflecting because you now realize how stupid your position is. congratulations.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ff_1518644376

listen to these screams. Now imagine hearing it irl. Now imagine having to talk to scummy reporters who don't care about your well being and want you to remember exactly what happened in great detail.

Yeah, and he’s a Dr.

Scary.

Also cue t_d claiming that it’s photoshopped propaganda/false flag/shooter is actually an Islamist militant antifa member

Not aware of that situation

Yeah. What a fucking bunch of idiots for wanting discuss a solution to all of these conservatives shooting the place up.

Like who?

right on. thank you for the solid info bro.

Really? NY, NJ and Connecticut passed extreme laws within the first two months of this alleged attack. Look before you cross the street.

Except all of your examples happen in almost every major power having or not having guns doesn't make the situation better or worse. It provides an avenue for rebellion against tyranny if we ever recognize it but it gives bad people the means to do bad things.

Just because you don't see average joe walk up to the white house with an AR and shoot DT doesn't mean people sit tight on these things either. Most people I know are prepared to do something if it happens but would realistically like to work things out through dialogue. Most people are relatively over the whole spying thing anyway as they see it as a simple and easy to live with necessity in a first world country and its not like anywhere else is any better. Also as much as I would enjoy pot becoming legal I currently don't have much sympathy for anyone who gets caught smoking or with weed in possession as it is illegal and the consequences are known.

I didn't miss your point at all. You're right in that I don't really want people to have nukes I could go either way on guns because I own them myself and enjoy shooting and hunting. The problem with your argument in both cases however is that you assume that both nukes and or guns could just evaporate overnight and problem solved. Nukes and guns both exist therefore they cannot not exist and we need to be practical and unbiased in our approach to regulating them.

I'll agree it's an illusion but that illusion provides a certain peace of mind which again in most peoples minds seems to outweigh the incredibly small risk of ever encountering gun violence in person.

Would have made a lot more sense to just... Oh, I don't know... Ask them, instead of saying that you have questions and then waiting on us to ask you so that you can then tell us. Seems like kinda of a waste of time.

Use your imagination.

If you want to kill as many people as possible what would you do if guns didn't exist?

That is not how things work in a civilized society. Anders Breivik killed 80 children and the police didn't beat the snot out of him. If a suspect is walking into police custody healthy he shouldn't be going to the hospital 30 minutes later because the cops extracted some impromptu revenge. Violence begets more violence.

I can't teach you how to read, nor how to act in good faith. That part's on you and you've failed miserably while also failing to address any of the points I've made throughout this back and forth.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/741ipx/pulse_nightclub_congressional_baseball_practice/

Actually it had already been found, I was just to lazy to edit my post cause I looked right after I commented. And what are you talking about? You have a gun and everyone is running the away from you so it wouldn't be hard to ditch it literally anywhere and then keep running towards everyone else. You don't have to be the head cashier at walmart to figure that out. Oh and nice, get all pissy about me being a smart ass an you turn right around and do the same. Get back to work peasant.

The truth is right in front of your eyes this time via video and images.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/?utm_term=.hizPm3gzg#.vhKebYqZq

Article regarding a new YouTube comment from the shooter

Thank you, same here but it just gets dismissed immediately. This is a good piece of evidence.

The laptop in the video forced me to think this is just a drill. Also why it's getting all the news coverage.

Like how is it still open like that after being shot? Not closed, or flipped the other way, or fell to the ground...

dude it's shillville around here.

"Just because you don't know about a detail, doesn't mean it didn't happen." Exactly. So go do more research on Shady Hook.

Yo, some of the people here need help.

I'm a frequent user here, go back to Info Wars.

Here's your answer so take it or leave it. No i don't fear cars. A car is built with the purpose of transportation. A gun is made to exterminate life, and mame. In the western world, we need cars for transportation. You know what we don't need? GUNS! It's funny how you mention cognitive dissonance when you sit there literally ignoring every single point being made because, MURICA! There's no fucking dictator waiting to take your imagined freedom away. You know what there is though? Millions of deranged people on the brink of snapping and killing innocent people. One percent of the population suffers from psychopathy That means there are likely at least 3+ million psychopaths in America. Psychopaths with easy unlimited access to tools of war. Now that I've answered your question, honestly answer this one. Why on Earth would any rational peace loving person WANT a semi-automatic weapon? I hope your answer makes it worth the massive casualties they cause every day in America.

well shit bro, why didnt you say you were a left handed smoker?!?!?

its all good my friend. im with you. fuck guns and the idiots that use them!