Ancient construction - Iron Tools

39  2018-02-15 by HeffalumpInDaRoom

So I know that they say that the ancient granite sites couldn't have been built quickly with copper tools, because of how quickly they would dull on granite. However, I watched a youtube video on an Indian culture using soft steel (low carbon) chisels to pretty quickly deal with granite (Claimed to be 3000 year old tech).

Video: https://youtu.be/zOQZ7X8NuHo

So I am not sure why we say there was no iron tools back in ancient times. If I watch any show showing the process of extracting iron from ore, it is a pretty long process. If I had to spend 24 hours to extract as little metal as they do, I would definitely recycle any iron I found.

When you think of the kind of artifacts that are found, they are items that aren't as precious. Copper was pretty common, and also wasn't as durable, so it would have less value. Other artifacts such as broken pots or stone implements don't have value either. If you are invading an area, I would imagine that you would take the valuable metal to melt into weapons and destroy everything that didn't have value. It isn't very likely that you would up and leave an area without taking valuable materials. Plus, over 4000 years, the stuff that was left behind would have long rusted away.

Anyhow, in my opinion, I think we had iron a long time ago, and that cold be used for most of the ancient structures.

Let me know your thoughts.

25 comments

1  mastigia 2018-02-15

I agree, and this is a great point. Even up until recent history, the iron nails would be removed from a building when it was torn down, because you are exactly right on the cost to extract. I would like to see some metallurgical historians weigh in on ancient recycling practices.

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

The "iron" you're referring to is carbon steel, and must be forged (ie produced by a knowledgeable craftsman with access to the right materials).

There is little to no long term recycling because it rusts to nothing over time.

1  mastigia 2018-02-15

Were they is g carbon steel for nails 100yrs ago?

1  oneoneoneoneoneoneo 2018-02-15

Carbon steel was a thing 1,500+ years ago.

1  mastigia 2018-02-15

Ya sure, but we're they making carpentry nails out of it back then? I don't think so...But not an expert.

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

Of course they were.

1  mastigia 2018-02-15

Wat lol?

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

Iron is an element. Carbon steel is the crystal structure of iron and carbon that makes up all "iron" you are familiar with.

1  mastigia 2018-02-15

Very familiar with the chemistry of iron...your comment is just kind of misleading. This isn't how most people think about it. Ya, carbon is almost always going to be contaminating iron. But, that is ki da pedantic

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

It's not a contaminant, it's a critical component. Literally the reason it is functional.

1  perfect_pickles 2018-02-15

more correct is that all steel is some form of iron.

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

Yes.

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

Couldn't a form of case hardening have occurred a long time ago?

1  wotoan 2018-02-15

Sure, this happened in things like fallen meteorites that were highly coveted.

1  rodental 2018-02-15

Bronze can be tempered almost as hard as steel.

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

Is there damascus bronze?

1  rodental 2018-02-15

No, damascus steel was repeated by repeatedly folding carbon into steel. Bronze was generally poured, not forged, and the hardness is controlled by adjusting the ratio of the metals in the alloy.

1  birkbork 2018-02-15

IIRC, iron melting was not known in ancient egypt. They did have access to iron from iron meteorites, but that is an extremely limited supply.

Proof: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/01/dagger-king-tut-tomb-iron-meteorite-egypt-mummy

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

Seeing as copper was harvested from Lake Michigan by the roman empire as long ago as 2500 B.C., I don't think it is too out of question for other metals to be harvested in the same way. Plus, they could refine it in America to be exported. We had tons of wood in the area.

1  oorskadu 2018-02-15

Just a sec... Copper from lake Michigan by the Romans 2500 b.c.? I want whatever you're smoking

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

Here is a few links, not sure what kind of source you want.

https://eos.org/articles/miners-left-pollution-trail-great-lakes-6000-years-ago

https://grahamhancock.com/wakefieldjs1/

1  oorskadu 2018-02-15

Wow. Many things ive heard and read or have seen on documentaries are all coming together in this one document with new to me info. Great stuff,nice sauce

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

The first I heard of it was from the geologist with the hard on for masonic stuff (scott wolter) on the discovery channel show, America Unearthed. I don't like that guy as a primary source, but Graham does his research.

1  HeffalumpInDaRoom 2018-02-15

I realize I totally missed saying, "Well put this in your pipe and smoke it!" What a missed opportunity.

1  perfect_pickles 2018-02-15

bronze is the obvious