To be perceived as sane in a sick society isn't sanity.

I'm not saying you're wrong but, some people disagree with you.

I see the antidepressants/mental illness as a cause for mass shooting to be a "chicken or the egg" kind of thing. I would hypothesize that mass shooters being with an underlying mental illness that is then modulated (in a negative manner) by psychiatric medications, especially SSRI/SNRIs.

This. The conversation we should be haveing is how to properly treat the mentally ill. Pills should be the last line of defence for the majority of the ill imo.

Pills should be the last line of defence for the majority of the ill imo.

I am of the same opinion. I have spoken at length with many psychiatrists about effects of psych meds. All have stated they don't feel the meds available have the resolution to adequately modulate neurotransmitters in a manner that is highly selective and specific enough for a desired outcome. They often make large changes in brain chemistry involving many different neurotransmitters. Take antipsychotic medications- yes, you can control psychotic symptoms, but you often have a cost (severe somnolence, EPS, tardive dyskinesia, Parkinsonian symptoms, etc)

Although psychotropic drugs do have side effects, the art of psychiatry is to pair the side effects to patients in a way that's advantageous. For example, I had one patient who was a paranoid schizophrenic that thought I was part of the CIA and was constantly anxious and couldn't sleep. Seroquel worked wonders on him since it has evidence of having anxiolytic effects along with sedation. He stopped having paranoid thoughts (he actually started to enjoy talking to me after a few days and would seek me out during rounds), still had some anxiety (which was managed even better once scheduled vistaril was added), and had some of the best sleep he has had in years.

Although psychotropic drugs do have side effects, the art of psychiatry is to pair the side effects to patients in a way that's advantageous.

This is undeniable. I spoke too generally, but was trying to convey the desire to have the ability to have fine-grained control over not only specific receptor sub-types and magnitude of response, but also geographical targeting.

also - all of the shooters liked chicken soup.

chicken soup makes people shoot crowds.

Personally, I feel that anyone who opens fire with high powered weapons into an innocent crowd of people is mentally ill. I don't care if you disagree.

I see your point, but there are a lot of other factors causing this. So just to say its guns or mentally ill just kicks the can down the road. Its not that simple. Look at the drug war in the 80s, Billions into law enforcement and how's that working out for us

I don't disagree that it doesn't do enough to just label it. We as a society have to figure out what to do about it, and then do it.

If mental illness isn't the problem and guns aren't the problem, what would you say is the problem? ... Other than a "some people just suck" type argument. Not saying that way of thinking isn't right. Let's face it... a very small percentage of a percent of the general population conduct these shootings. Plenty of firearm owners are on anti-depressants and don't go around killing people.

Because I don't think there is a specific cause or reason. I believe it comes down to a perfect storm of multiple factors regarding the individual. So, generalizing it isn't productive as far as I am concerned.

People can blame guns all they want but triggers don't pull themselves.

One thing is for sure : I'm definitely not on team gun ban.

B-b-but what if the government pays me to do it and I get a special uniform?

I think mental illness is the core issue with schools pushing negativity as a core attribute.

That's saying sanity is social behavior. Is pre-meditated murder a crime of sane thought? Obviously, rampages are fucking horrible, but drawing a line of antisocial behavior is a criminal offense is a slippery wicket. Besides, do these fuckers DESERVE an insanity plea? Most tortured people, by hallucinations, want to hurt themselves or the people who they think are directing the voices. They don't go revenge shoot the people who treated them like shit.

Not saying the accused actually was responsible for what happened, but assuming he was with no outside forces helping him, he and anyone else would have to be mentally unstable to go on a killing spree.

Access to guns is the problem.

I live in a country where guns are illegal. We dont have mass shootings. It's that simple.

However, it's not that simple at all. Because in the current world order, i believe in a right to arm yourself.

The problem is that along with that 'right', comes a massive responsibility. And some people are not responsible.

I dont have an answer.

Complicated, isn't it?

I've lived all over the USA, most of my life in very pro-gun states. I've known literally hundreds of firearm owners in my lifetime. None have ever shot and killed anyone or anything senselessly (to my knowledge) and rarely did I ever see anyone handle a firearm in a way I felt was reckless.

Responsible gun owners are responsible. So, why should they be punished for something completely out of their control?

Exactly. Things like "gun free zones" are only respected by citizens who abide the law. I would make a guess that no gunman with the intent to shoot someone ever saw such a sign and had a change of heart.

If criminals cared about laws, they wouldn't be criminals.

I guess the realistic view is that we're always going to have to deal with this shit, in some form or another. If you really want to take out a few classmates and can't obtain a firearm, you can always go to walmart and pick up a cheap pressure-cooker

What ever happened to the good ole days of flushing cherry bombs down the toilets?

You get labeled a terrorist for that Now. Explosives at school.

Having to deal with a similar situation (when it comes to my dogs), I've learned to see both sides.

I was initially fully anti-guns. And in an ideal society i still would think that way.

But owning a dog that is considered a killer in a lot of countries, really woke me up to the responsibility of the owner, being the overriding factor.

Unfortunately, when it comes to responsibility, we can only ever legislate for after-the-fact.

Did any of them have AR-15s?

Yes. As well as SKSs and AK-47s... The list goes on. In fact, it would probably surprise you with some of the personal arsenals I've seen. It did me. Was I afraid? No. Did I feel safer knowing them? You betcha.

Guess you have to weigh it up as a society what are you prepared to lose

But how many other violent crimes in your country dwarf the us. Most countries with gun bans lead the 1st world in stabbings, beatings, acid attacks, trucks running into crowds and more. DC has the highest amount of gun murders in the US and the toughest gun laws in the us also. This os Most deffintaly a mental issue. But it also involves doctors over prescribing psych meds/anti depressants. We shouldent be talking about banning guns we should talk about our massive problem with the mentally ill and pharma pushing pills that make it worse.

But how many other violent crimes in your country dwarf the us.

None actually but my point wasnt about the US or banning guns. Perhaps you only read the first line but i dont actually agree with banning guns.

I dont have any answer whatsoever, unfortunately.

Defend yourself and your family against irresponsible people. If you don't know how, LEARN HOW. Teach them to do the same.

Don't just outsource the problem to state agents that may or may not have your family's interests in mind.

I agree completely.

But there still needs to be a serious conversation on how to combat the problem of large amounts of irresponsible ownership.

So lets say banning guns is off the table. Whats the next option?

Can gun control laws get more robust without infringing on the right to own a gun?

Disband "police" in their current incarnation -- corporate policy/statute enforcement officers. Provide mental health care to thousands of suddenly unemployed psychopaths. (Not all cops, to be sure, but this is a real transitional issue.)

There's still a need for Peace Officers, granted -- to prevent and prosecute violence. But it appears most police have abandoned that role in favor of violence and theft.

All good ideas. Transitional nightmares though, as you pointed out.

What are your thoughts on the ratio of these mass-shooters in relation to those caused by meds, versus pure psycopathy/sociopathy?

If we could get to a point where meds were no longer a factor in this type of thing, i wonder what the % drop would be?

What have the politics/society the past 30 years been like? 1. More and More kids are now pill popping and vaccinating at astronomical rates. 2. We've taken out God and Morals from School. 3. We promote violence and death in the news, media, movies, videogames etc. 4. We now punish parents who punish their kids. 5. We have dumbed down our population with useless information and standardized testing. 6. We have made it to where one person in the families income cannot support and family making it to where both parents need to work full time jobs. 7. We are programming our kids on how to be a worker and not how to be a independent thinking adult. 8. We teach kids guns are bad, yet forget to educate them about guns (good and bad). 9. Parents have kids then in 4 years they are sent to be educated by the government until 18 or often times 23-25. 10. We made schools into Gun Free Zones in a society that protects everyone with importance with a Gun. I would say Children are important.

Those are just a few of the many factors into the crisis we see today. You are right its not just mental illness and its not just guns. Nothing in this world is just black and white. It's complex.

I will respond to your question about Trump. He has advocated for School choice, which would allow parents to choose where to send their kids. He has advocated to defund the DOE so state/local governments and parents can decide what type of education is best for THEIR kids. He wants the federal government to stop profiting from student loans. He also has stating for along time that our country spends more money per kid then anyone else yet our kids are falling in intelligence in every category year after year. In a country of checks and balances preventing a president to create laws. I think you need to focus your attention on local, state, congress and the senate to come up with ways to better protect our children.

Here's a idea that might help. Maybe if the media refused to give these shooters the limelight they so desperately want. It might prevent others from following suite. Knowing they would get zero credit and publicity and their name would be buried and never mentioned might deter some. Far fetched and with today's media would never happen, but we can hope.

I will respond to your question about Trump. He has advocated for School choice, which would allow parents to choose where to send their kids. He has advocated to defund the DOE so state/local governments and parents can decide what type of education is best for THEIR kids. He wants the federal government to stop profiting from student loans. He also has stating for along time that our country spends more money per kid then anyone else yet our kids are falling in intelligence in every category year after year. In a country of checks and balances preventing a president to create laws. I think you need to focus your attention on local, state, congress and the senate to come up with ways to better protect our children.

Those are just the talking points.

This has been trialed before. After Katrina, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal opened the flood gates for the wealthy to come in and gobble up the school systems.

Let's not fool ourselves. This is a popular idea amongst Republicans. They get in front of a camera or get on social media and attack public school systems. They complain about bloated budgets, overcrowded schools, curriculums, etc.. But behind closed doors they're already operating to make those criticisms a reality by slashing school budgets.

And all of this is wrapped in a shiny new gift wrap. They call it school CHOICE. See, you pay out of your pocket for your kid to go whichever school they want to go to, or should I say whichever school the parent can afford.

Low income or bad grades? Here's a some government aid to help you get your kid into a school willing to accept the government aid -- because we know it won't be any of the good schools.

And I know the public school system is broken. But is eliminating free public school and privatizing education really the answer for a country with so much wealth disparity? I feel like that would be a huge catalyst in dividing the country further based on class.

I have a lot of very prominent teachers in my family...and they have received several teacher/coach of the year awards. They have told me ever since we socialized the public education system in the late 50s/early 60s we have seen the consistent decline in our students education. Public Ed is important. But we need to get the Feds out of it and give states and or local governments to ability to teach what they want. Also give parents more say...That's really all I was stating. Thank you for your reply!!

People pushing deep state memes to further disempower and enslave the populace need to STOP.

It really does.

The shooter literally confessed to hearing demons ordering him to kill.

I think I'll choose to take what a crazed gunman says with a grain of salt.

Wise Choice.

So you’re calling him crazy

LOL your logic is ridiculous.

Don't blame the mental illness - blame the gun.

Don't blame the drunk driver - blame the car.

You completely missed my point

Debunked in 3, 2, 1....

2013, total deaths to gun violence 33,636.

21,175 (63%) we're suicides. That's more than 50 per day, triple the death toll of one of the worst school shootings in history - every single day.

If you're suicidal, especially so much that you're willing to violent kill yourself - by definition you're mentally ill.

Also, why are 90% of school shooters either on or withdrawing from psychotropic drugs. Which by the manufacturers own admission have side effects including aggression, violence, suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation, and psychotic breaks?

America has a drug problem.

If you're suicidal, especially so much that you're willing to violent kill yourself - by definition you're mentally ill

Nothing could be further from the truth

No. Actually they are correct. According to the DSM-V, suicidality is classified as a disorder it's self, suicidal behavior disorder.

We are so used to things being simple. We want a simple solution. Where is that damn Staple EASY button?

How do we stop the shootings?

Complicated, isn't it?

I've lived all over the USA, most of my life in very pro-gun states. I've known literally hundreds of firearm owners in my lifetime. None have ever shot and killed anyone or anything senselessly (to my knowledge) and rarely did I ever see anyone handle a firearm in a way I felt was reckless.

Responsible gun owners are responsible. So, why should they be punished for something completely out of their control?

But how many other violent crimes in your country dwarf the us. Most countries with gun bans lead the 1st world in stabbings, beatings, acid attacks, trucks running into crowds and more. DC has the highest amount of gun murders in the US and the toughest gun laws in the us also. This os Most deffintaly a mental issue. But it also involves doctors over prescribing psych meds/anti depressants. We shouldent be talking about banning guns we should talk about our massive problem with the mentally ill and pharma pushing pills that make it worse.

Defend yourself and your family against irresponsible people. If you don't know how, LEARN HOW. Teach them to do the same.

Don't just outsource the problem to state agents that may or may not have your family's interests in mind.

You get labeled a terrorist for that Now. Explosives at school.