You did this same thing for the Vegas shooting.

No amount of video evidence or witness testimony is going to suffice for you, so why even post this?

In both instances evidence was given to you and you just waved it away.

What's your threshold that the evidence must meet?

how is claiming that the Parkland shooting isn’t a false flag “extraordinary”?

that’s literally the logical explanation

some of us would consider the claim that a single shooter with no apparent motive killed so many children in a modern school with CCTV and security pretty extraordinary.

Why? What is extraordinary about it?

Well, the definition of extraordinary is "unusual or remarkable."

I didn't ask for the definition you fucking moron, I asked why you think it's extraordinary, can you not answer a simple question?

You don't think the alleged third deadliest elementary school shooting in the United States' history is unusual or remarkable, given that there is no motive?

You still haven't answered the question. What do you think is extraordinary about this?

Go ahead and post evidence that it happened below. Alternatively, you could simply say, "I believe whatever is on the teevee."

I haven't watched any television at all in the last week, so why are you assuming that's where I get my info? You're completely full of shit and this proves it. You aren't even looking for evidence you're just in full on denial mode.

So you don't think a school shooting with 17 deaths is extraordinary, but you believe it happened. For what reason do you know it happened?

Why do you keep avoiding the question, it's very simple, what do you find extraordinary about this?...

This thread is for posting evidence. If you comment in any other way besides posting evidence, you might be the one who appears to be full of shit.

You haven't posted any evidence yet you've commented, are you admitting to being full of shit?

I'm not agreeing with the guy; but look at the title of this thread.

You might want to grab a coat. It's pretty shilly in here.

Here we go. Arguing against conspiracies. If you don't like the conspiracy get the fuck out of here man.

I like it here, so I’m probably gonna stay. Look forward to more spirited conversation with you 😊

Of course you do. You get instant upvotes and crazy karma arguing against conspiracies on a sub for conspiracies. You promoting the MSM talking points as well making you a favorite here.

I’m promoting the truth. Rick Gates just flipped ffs

Oh yeah and what did he say? Oh let me guess.

he hasn’t testified against Manafort yet but he agreed to if/when it goes to trial!

It's Happening! Right? Manafort is a weak spot not to mention OIG report coming out next month. I noticed MSM latching on to 4chan comments as sources. Desperate attempts show weakness.

OIG Report is gonna reveal a lot about TruePundit, I wouldn’t put all my hopes in that basket if I were you! Anyway I’m on my way to dinner with my grandma, hope you have a good night!

Have a great time and don't Reddit on your phone while at dinner.

Give us all a break.

I wouldn't put much faith for it not to be damning. I suspect a special investigation to follow.

Glad I’m not the only one who notices that...

Did you mean to send that to me?

Ah thanks for the clarity. Yeah, I've noticed the treatment here. Makes you wonder who is getting paid to roll over this sub.

Except we don’t know shootings have been faked in the past. Not mass shootings on this scale.

Do you really think they bribed or threatened all the cops, emts, doctors and nurses in a 10 mile radius?

Your claims are extraordinary. Not yet another mass shooting occurring. That’s the Occum’s razor answer.

occams razor would imply that the lad lost his mind and shot up a school.

If you think the simplest explanation is it is a ff or w/e else you called it then you have issues.

Occam's Razor is a problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions.

That it was NOT A HOAX is the answer to a problem that makes the fewest possible assumptions. Such as assuming the witnesses are lying, that no one died, that there's a massive MSM conspiracy to make us believe that it was NOT A HOAX and no one whistle-blowing this massive HOAX.

According to him, the definition of Occam's Razor is not that the simplest explanation that explains the evidence is usually correct, but that the most widely accepted viewpoint, whether or not it conforms to available evidence, is the most correct.

What kind or amount of evidence would you deem satisfactory?

So that's a no. Nothing will convince you.

These people need to all go back and read allegory of the cave. They're all pointing at shadows and asserting that they see 3D objects.

Mate, you're not people, get off your high horse.

If it was a false flag, then they're trying to put is in a corner. We the people are mostly decent people who play by the rules. If it was a FF then the geneva convention is a joke to them.

Of course we should continue to talk to you and others about these events hoping our attention is enough to change things.

What else can we do? https://i.imgur.com/DeKuhJw.jpg

I'm not saying the boy wasn't pressured by outside forces that had their hand in this.

I'm saying the story and the events leading up to this event are fair game to speculate about because it DID happen.

OP is saying there were no deaths or bullets, he did the same about the Vegas incident.

No amount of video evidence or witness testimony is going to suffice

You do not know that. Many of us are skeptical of these 'mass shootings' because we understand how easy it is for TV and government to lie about events like this and get away with it.

Instead of shooting the messenger (or in the case, they with the courage to ask a simple question), why not produce the evidence which convinced you this event was real?

See, the event you linked had no evidence other than one person's testimony.

The school shooting had a lot of witnesses and video.

Are you really gonna tell me hundreds of teens are dumb enough to stay quiet if not one of them died and this was faked?

the event you linked had no evidence other than one person's testimony.

How many people does it take telling the same story for it to go from a lie to the truth?

hundreds of teens

Where did you get this number?

That's how many were in the school.

Or are you a denier too?

That is how many you have been told were in the school.

By the same government and media who told you that Osama did 9/11.

Even Osama himself said he had nothing to do with it and yet people believed what they were told by their Big Brother.

What about all the people in the town who know the victims and students? They're all lying too?

Which people? Give some names.

The families of all the dead school kids for starters. All the students on the news.

You're just making another attempt to demand I prove reality.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/c/embed/a24d085a-14f5-11e8-930c-45838ad0d77a

Are all these children lying?

Yep, their lies seem blatant to me. Can you seriously not tell that these kids are lying through their teeth?

Ok so all the kids are lying, all the parents are lying, all the dead children have been spirited away. All the teachers are lying, all the medical staff, and police are lying, all the friends are lying, everyone who knew the dead children is lying. All the school records and birth certificates and social security are fabricated. The dead childrens parents will now spend the rest of their lives, along with everyone else involved claiming that this event happened when it really didn't. And no one will ever, or has ever in these hoax events you make up, come forward to say it was faked.

The other option is of course that you are a broke brained, horrible, idiot.....I mean occams razor and all that...seems like you are just a unpleasant dickhead.

Don't bother with him, check his history.

His likely John Le Bonn, he came here to shill his site (and on the cryptocurrency sites) and youtube videos which promote his site.

Why is he so eager to share his site, well its conent is behind a $20/month paywall that funds his "coffee". Anyways, he was told to stop and banned from the cryptocurrency sites so he comes here and basically plays the adult verion of a 3 yearolds why game.

He moves goal posts, does not recognize that a negative also requires proof, nit picks about isolated details while ignoring your argument as a whole, and demands really impossible proof...

He does not believe it atoms, dinosaurs, a round earth, missiles, nukes, space, planets, the sun, etc... call himself the world's leading skeptic and makes fun of "normies" and "conspiritards" (what he calls people on this reddit) alike.

Most of his argument is that he did not see it with his own eyes since he will cry fakery on any video, witness account or other evidence you supply... you might even know someone who died and he will demand names and other personal details.

The rest of his arguments stem from not understanding basic science or tenants of research leading me to conclude his a combination of ass and the Dunning–Kruger effect...

So save your breath, you won't convince him, hell I think you could strap him to a rocket headed for the sun and he will still find a a way to cry fakery...

Lol, thanks for the heads up. I normally wouldn't engage but I find hoaxers particularly annoying. Seems like my suspicions about his mental capacity were well founded

It’s kind of messed up, kids died. Same thing with sandy hook. Also 9/11 he claims no one died... what’s worse is he tries to monetize this on his website.

It me kind of messed up... still furious about those hoaxers that harrased sandy hook parents. Imagine your kids died in a horrible shooting and some moron calls you up accusing you of being s crises actor...

Then they claim occam’S razor is no way e died... like 1000s of people faking accounts and parents faking children’s deaths is the simplest explanation of what’s going on...

It takes a real moron, ass or con artist (like Alex jones) to aggressively promote such offensive nonsense.

I downvoted you because a) the burden of proof is on you, and b) you've proven you don't argue in good faith, so why bother engaging you in discussion.

Your claim is the shooting was fake. With no evidence.

/u/dehehn should be served up on a platter after getting roasted that hard.

This may be the last comment I ever make on r/con... Joe_ you are fighting the good fight and anyone who doesn't unthinkingly believe what they're fed has similar questions. Also, yes, it is strange that the individual asking legitimate questions related to this sub is downvoted. While those who are arguing with him for no good apparent reason are upvoted.... Also its not like hes a raving flatearther.. he's asking simple legitimate questions, and being downvoted. This sub had major steam pre election, on many different subjects. I for one got scared off. but yea, we are on a discussion site to examine the possibilities that what we are told is illigitimate. when someone does that eloquently and is attacked more or less, I find myself going into the same mode I do with MSM, I don't assume any 1 point of view, and I ask what the end result is. what the product is going to be at the end of the line... so yea, I feel like Joe_ is ma regular guy looking for answers, I dont who the other folks are lol.... people who apparently hang out oin r/conspiracy and bash outside the box question and commentary lol.. they'll have plenty of targets though. until we all give up.

He's not just asking outside the box questions. He's claiming the shooting is a hoax. There's a group on here who has claimed every shooting since Sandy Hook has been a hoax with crisis actors. With no evidence to support those claims.

9-11 has lots of evidence of a false flag. JFK assassination had evidence. Even Sandy Hook being a false flag with actual dead children has evidence. But this idea that these shootings aren't happening and the MSM is tricking people does not have evidence.

And then when they come in and demand evidence to prove their theory with no evidence is false, people get frustrated and downvote. Especially when all evidence presented is dismissed.

It's funny I don't feel very roasted. I also gave him plenty of evidence. The idea that the shooting is just something being claimed by the MSM is absurd. The idea that it is a hoax is absurd. That's why there's so much pushback.

And a video of a dead body on the floor with blood. Which obviously, is much more likely to be an actor in a pool of fake blood with a bunch of actors pretending to cry.

You also left out the long list of eyewitnesses ranging from students, to teachers, to law enforcement who all said the event happened. Who saw the people with gunshot wounds and the dead bodies. And the shooter who admitted to the killings.

You still haven't said why the overwhelming witness testimony does not count as evidence.

You're not going to find HD footage of students holding up the day's newspaper and examining dead bodies in a mass shooting event. Everyone is either cowering or running in fear for their life in these events. Not videotaping the dead bodies of the friends and classmates.

You'll never get a response from a false flagger with any explanation of the literal thousands of people who must be in on the hoax in order for it not to be real.

Even their broke ass brains can't concoct a reasonable explanation for these thousands of willing psychopaths who apparently take part in mass shooting hoaxes and never break their story for the rest of their lives. So they just ignore it and keep whining about fake blood and people looking funny when they cry.

Yeah. I'm down for plenty of conspiracies, but these ones are just so absurd is bugs me. And it really bugs me that these conspiracies also always lead to mocking victims. It's just gross.

I've always found false flaggers and hoaxes to be the lowest of the low in the conspiracy world, just unpleasant people through and through. Also they have the least grip on reality

False flags are one thing. There's plenty of historical precedent for them, and a good amount of suspicious events to this day. But the hoaxes make no sense and make people cruel.

Link to picture.

https://www.infowars.com/nsfw-graphic-footage-of-florida-massacre-aftermath/

Yeah, so there you go. There's your evidence. What's your problem now?

He gave you evidence.

I'm not even sure what part of that I'm supposed to feel roasted me? I feel like Joe thinks he's outsmarting someone, maybe it's you?, with his "I didn't say anything, I'm just asking questions!" routine, but no one else is falling for that shit.

the burden of proof is on you

What leads you to this assumption?

The onus isn’t on any of us to “prove” it to you.

Moon landing. Sure, we can all cite plenty of reasons it had to have occurred. 17 kids and teachers slaughtered? If you’re not going to believe to reports and testimony of the witnesses themselves, what else can we do?

It's pretty much impossible to "prove" to someone as stubborn as yourself, who will discount even the words of the victims themselves. If you won't believe them, why would you believe me?

Here's a challenge. Forget this attempting to make us "prove" something glaringly obvious, why don't you go to Parkland and prove to us that no such thing occurred?

That's how you do conspiracies properly. Not this stupid demanding of proof, while not offering anything that would make any of us even question what occurred. You have to go, gather some evidence and present it to the people who's minds you're trying to change.

In a similar vein, I'll grant you a disqualification for your attempt to prove it didn't occur.

Again, you seem to discount the testimony of the witnesses, and seem unwilling to actually go to the scene and talk to witnesses yourself. You're not terribly successful at planting any seeds of doubt in any of our minds.

You're invited to post any and all evidence that would make any of us question that it didn't happen below:

The sheriff? The parents? The children? The governor? The president even? There isn't any controversy here.

It's not on us to "prove" events that no one disputes occurred. As the disputer, its on you to prove they didn't.

I'm all ears.

You can't prove something that hasn't happened. None of the witnesses and law enforcement have disputed it.

You can google till your fingers bleed and you won't find anyone disputing it except people on conspiracy forums who weren't there.

http://www.thegoldwater.com/news/18444-Florida-Witnesses-Describe-Horror-of-Parkland-Shooting

You're saying that he's discounting the testimony of witnesses. He's saying you can't know something occurred for sure simply by trusting someone who said they were a witness to the event. I'm inclined to believe the latter only because the government both has a track record of lying to its citizens and has actual made it legal to do so. So if they've lied in the past and they made lying to the public legal, what would motivate them to tell the truth? Applied behavioral analysis says there is no reason for them to change their bad behavior, especially when lying gets reinforced by an uneducated public that refuses to hold the government accountable.

And I'm asking, how can one demand "proof" if any proof one offers can be immediately discounted and cast aside? That's the silly part. Why ask would one ask if they won't listen?

It's like me say "prove to me that Europe actually exists", but here's my caveats:

You can't show me maps, because maps are just drawings and anyone can draw anything.

I also won't take the word of someone that's been there, because how do I know that they've been there. They could just be an actor telling me they've been there.

I also won't take the word of someone who's currently there, because how do I know that they're REALLY there? You can make a Skype call from anywhere, after all. They could point their webcam out the window to show me the Leaning Tower of Pisa, but since I clearly want to believe that Europe doesn't exist, that's not acceptable proof - after all, I've never seen it in person, it could just be in Canada but Canadians aren't allowed there, to keep up the conspiracy.

I could go on. My point is, demanding "proof" with the caveat that any proof one supplies doesn't count doesn't make someone appear enlightened, simply stubborn for no other reason than to be stubborn. It doesn't prove anything.

As for this tragedy in America, why would one ask strangers for "proof" when we're all operating with the same set of knowledge. Some (most) of us believe it. A few apparently don't. None of us can possibly sway them, since they've seen the same exact information we've all seen.

I've suggested, in my plethora of replies to him, that if the "facts" that most of us agree on aren't sufficient, the only real alternative is for the questioner to go visit the scene themselves. Interview the witnesses themselves. But of course they won't. They'ed rather sit at their computer practicing their trolling skills in their attempt to belittle a tragedy.

And yes, I will agree with you as well. The government isn't to be trusted unquestioningly, no matter who the leadership is. But that doesn't mean that every occurrence in the country is the result of a government conspiracy.

There's also the "why". What does the government have to gain out of this? With the current congressional and White House leadership, there's no fear of them going door to door collecting peoples guns. The NRA-funded GOP isn't going to try to use a school shooting to advance their hidden anti-gun narrative, because they don't have that hidden narrative. They're rather blatantly against that, in fact.

And your other tidbit: So if they've lied in the past and they made lying to the public legal, what would motivate them to tell the truth?

I would say the functional motivation for telling the truth is simple. If everything you ever say is a lie, everyone will figure it out and never believe a word you say. But if 99% of what you say is true, and only 1% is a lie, those lies will slip right by, since people have learned that what you say is generally believable.

In other words, lying at every possible attempt to do so does no benefit to the liar.

All that said, this is /r/conspiracy. I think its extremely lazy, disingenuous to try to create a conspiracy simply by taking a known even and demanding "proof". The known facts are the only proofs they have. If someone wants to lay out an alternative theory, it should be on them to provide new facts that back up that reality. Loose Change wasn't a video saying "Prove to me that 9/11 occurred the way the government said", Dylan presented the governments story and went on to address each shortcoming on his own. He took responsibility for laying out an alternative narrative, which caused many people to scratch their heads and ask more questions. He didn't just go "nuh-uh", which is essentially what OP and his cheerleader were doing here.

Not sure if you'll agree or disagree, but I liked the tone of your response so I thought I'd write back. But beyond that, I'm doing running in verbal circles in this thread :)

I also like the tone of your response and I agree with much of the points you made.

Great response.

That's how you do conspiracies properly.

What does this even mean?

The OP asked a simple question: what is your evidence that this event was real?

You can provide the evidence, or admit you do not have the evidence, or act like a child who is being asked to provide evidence that Santa is real.

That's how you do conspiracies properly. What does this even mean?

Conspiracy theories (at least, good ones, ones that make you think or realize you're onto something) don't start out by some numb nut picking an event at random and telling strangers "prove to me this really happened". They're born when someone smart figures something out and then shows the rest of us what they're on to.

OP can't even figure that out. He hasn't figured out a damn thing, only asking that each of us provides him evidence. None of us have access to any more evidence than he does, so obviously we'll never meet his burden of proof. What a stupid way to go about things. You can create a "conspiracy" about anything you want. Not because you found out something that was suppressed ("eyewitnesses claim they heard gunshots from the grassy knoll, but the commission never examined that"), but from outright rejection of the testimony we all hear.

Obviously, unless we were there, none of us are eyewitnesses to the event, so OP can reject anything we say on those grounds. And even if we were, there's likely no way we can prove to OP's satisfaction that we were.

My "evidence" is based on the testimony I've read (and i'm using testimony not as in it was in the court of law, but rather by people on Twitter, interviewed on the news, the words of the president, the sheriff, and so forth and so on). I am believing that. I don't need to fly down to Florida to walk through the school for myself.

So this bolding of evidence, just what the hell? None of us have video or pictures or snapchats. We're relying on what we've seen the children, the parents, and many others who were affected by the event. That's how things work.

I'm guessing OP wants to try to be a new Alex Jones vis a vis Sandy Hook. But he can't even be bothered to make an claim, can't be bothered to present us their alternative line of facts for us to weigh against what've already heard about the incident, nothing. OP is lazy. Instead, they just say "Yeah, that event we've all heard about, all seen interviews about... prove to me it happened, i need evidence". We're all operating on the same exact playing field, here - if they've rejected what we've all seen and believe, there's nothing further we can provide.

But again, the onus isn't on me to prove anything to OP. If OP has a different theory, it's on them to outline this theory and provide evidence for us to evaluate.

I've enjoyed lots what I've read in this sub. Usually I just like lurking and reading things that make me go "hmmm"?. But lately, its been amateur hour around here. Sad, really.

And besides, I did post a link for OP.

But how about this. If television interviews with children and parents aren't enough, if the words from the police aren't enough, the words from the liar but definitely not from the swamp president aren't enough, if the tweets and pictures from inside the school aren't enough, what exactly do you hope one of us will post for you? The shooter was arrested at the scene. To my knowledge, he's admitted to doing it. The FBI has been chastised by all for not taking action sooner, since he'd been reported previously.

That's our proof. That's all any random person on the internet can provide. But that's been accepted as truth by nearly all of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)#Proving_a_negative

Nevertheless, it has been said whoever makes a claim carries the burden of proof regardless of positive or negative content in the claim.

Given all that, if you or OP wants to argue against the events, the onus is now on you to provide evidence that counters everything we've all seen, and everything you and OP has access. THat's our evidence. What's there to dispute? That I can't personally attest that the parent I saw on TV was really a parent and really had a student at Parkland? I can't personally attest that that student really is a student, and isn't a CG effect?

Sorry. This is /r/conspiracy. Why don't you make a minimal amount of effort to prove whatever alternative version of "facts" that you think exist?

I'm guessing OP wants to try to be a new Alex Jones vis a vis Sandy Hook

Why are you focusing on the OP? Why not just provide the evidence which you have been asked for?

Because OP was person that harped on it incessantly. Now he got you, wonderful.

I told you what I know. It's not my responsibility to transcribe anything for you. Take some initiative and read it yourself.

Are you not intelligent enough to focus on the message rather than the messenger?

Still we wait for evidence that the event was real.

I told you where to get your evidence. My job isn’t to help people who are lazy enough not to read but not too lazy to argue.

I agree, why are they upset at the OP.... as a normal guy on here idgaf what anyone says.. but obviously this dude is rattling some fkng cages... why is that?????????

I don’t even get what game you’re trying to play.

https://youtu.be/5j7-WFa2AJM

Fast-forward past Anderson to the video. And then tell me that’s not good enough for you.

ITT: people who don't realize the difference between evidence and assumption. If there was a clear liquid on my body and I said I just took a shower, you would assume the liquid was water. There would be no evidence unless you actually took a sample of it or if it interacted with other matter in ways that no other liquid would. Even then there is still room to doubt the accuracy of the test and to doubt that we know all substances and all their behaviors. Basically, we shouldn't ever really say we know anything because true knowing can't be done in our world of imperfection.

the moon landing didn't try to repeal the second amendment you fucking turd burglar

Try the first few words of your title, plus reposting. You invited the downvotes.

Go to the funerals check inside the caskets

What, you want a morgue pass?

$50 bucks gets you 10 mins alone with the bodies. What's with the hot plate?

When their best evidence is 'go and look in a casket' you know they are struggling.

Why is it so hard for some people to honestly consider the possibility that these events are staged?

Anybody who takes an objective look at the 'bombs' of the 'Boston Bombings' will realise that they are looking at fakery. An elaborate charade.

You think the bombs at the boston mararhon were fake?

So you also think the bombs were fake?

You shouldn't be asking other people why they think it's fake. You should be asking yourself why you think it's real and whether someone has a motive to convince you that it's real.

You shouldn't be asking other people why they think it's fake. You should be asking yourself why you think it's real

Well that's convenient isn't it

As convenient as you responding to only part of my comment and ignoring other parts.

What did I ignore? You saying

and whether someone has a motive to convince you that it's real.

??? How is it convenient that I didn't mention it? What makes that "convenient"?

DO you apply the same logic to the moon?

Are you referring to the moon landings or the moon itself?

The moon. You should be asking yourself why you think it's real and whether someone has a motive to convince you that it's real.

I don't know what the moon is. It's pretty intriguing to say the least.

I don't even know how you tie your shoelaces without someone helping you....

I'm not going to force you to look into anything. I came to the information on my own and if you wanted it, you would find it too.

You don't have any information, that's the point. All you have is facts you refuse to accept because you have bought into a fantasy world where nothing is real and the facts don't agree with it. Your refusal to accept facts is not equal evidence to the facts themselves.

Got it. Thanks for the enlightenment.

the moon landing actually couldn't be faked at that point in time

Of course. If you spend even a little bit of time looking at the photos and videos for yourself, then you will come to the same conclusion.

Of course. If you spend even a little bit of time looking at the photos and videos for yourself, then you will come to the same conclusion.

That's absolutely not true.

Show me some convincing photos/videos of the 'Boston Bombings' being real.

It's because they don't understand how their senses could be fooled and their ego literally won't even let them attempt to understand it.

^ your life.

This is the newest salvo in the troll and fake-news accounts attacking reddit and other sites.

It's the farcical "prove reality is real" questioning of very electrons themselves or "space itself is not real" and there are no nukes...

But you can't use evidence, 'science', youtube videos, or your neighbor's friend's uncle who was in the army in the 50s and saw some shit.

No, these troll things demand that you prove to them that reality itself is real and if not, then their bullshit thread wins the day and, on many occasions, trump is maga.

They are likely real trolls, not bots, designed and used to just spread disinformation, or to sabotage and railroad a discussion, thread, narrative or story to gaslight and confuse the issue further than actually allow rational, sane debate. They are usually found on more authoritarian leaning subs, lean right, and are likely on medications to endure the sheer insane ruminations they must continue to manufacture.

So, we need to prove it without referring to the dead children (and teachers), parents in mourning, traumatized classmates?

Isn’t that asking us to prove what 5+5 equals without letting us use the numbers 1 or 0 as part of the answer. Or even the letters “e”, “n” and “t”.

So, say one of these kids that was there make a youtube-style (or vimeo, or whatever) - a unfiltered, unadulterated testimonial style video where it's just them and a camera and they describe the shooting as they saw it - would that be enough for you to believe them? Not on MSM, not on cable. Just one eye-witness describing what they saw.

So, what then, they're in on it?

Okay, but if a kid makes that video that I was talking about, and the video lines up with the known events, or, uh "known events", more or less, what would your reaction be? What I'm getting at is, these kids that have spoken so far seem to have a pretty uniform recollection of the shooting. You seem to not believe their account. Do you think they're misremembering, or something more sinister?

Id like to point you toward the testimonies that were convincing and later found out to be complletely untrue and got the US into wars.

Based on this logic I take it you literally never trust anything you hear from anyone then?

Unless it matches what you want to be true of course, then it's gospel.

Nope, words arent enough. There has to be evidence. And i expect the court of law to have the same standards. The truth is, i dont have a horse in that race unless youj propose law changes based on ot. And since its an extraordinary claim, there NEEDS to be extra9rdinary evid3nce to back it up. Otherwise, its heresay/conjecture.

Ok then all the bodies and eyewitnesses should be good for you then and so this shooting actually happened.

Also there is no extraordinary claim from reality. The extraordinary claim is that 1000's of people are willing participants in a lifelong hoax to fake a shooting that never happened. That dead children aren't dead and their families will spend the rest of their lives pretending that the child they raised actually died when they didn't, that all the students of the school are lying. etc etc . Your evidence for this appears to be......that you think it's true and all the actual evidence is fake.

No, eyewitness is supplementary not evidence. Ive seen no bodies, nor has anyone who wasnt there. And yes its an extraordinary claim. And may all be true, but it still has tp be proven regardless and i dont care enough ti believe any thing without actually evidence. Thats just called be discerning. What youve derived of my opinion is conjecture, untrue, and perfect evidence for just how an eyewitness can be wrong. You have plenty of time to read what i wrote, but instead you glossed it and made assumptions You put no thought into at all. In fact, i only responded to highlight that for other people reading as youve shown no interest in staying neutral.

You've seen plenty of bodies, you're just ignoring them because it doesn't fit your narrative. You are literally, literally, suggesting that those bodies are fake and that 100's if not thousands of people are willing participating in a hoax to pretend they are real.

There is literally no evidence that you would accept, mainly because your brain doesn't appear to work properly and you won't accept anything as evidence of an event that disagrees with what you have already decided is true. You then claim that because there is no evidence you accept that reality didn't happen.

Any facts presented about this incident you will dismiss as fake.

Will you state that you believe every child who died, every family member, every cop, first responder, neighbour and other student is a liar and willing participant in a hoax school shooting? Simply saying you do not believe any evidence presented means you think it was a hoax. Obviously you will try and weasel out of it with some variant of "I'm just asking questions" or "you carry on believing the MSM sheep" but logically if you don't believe the reported events you must believe these people are liars.

Conjecture. All of it. None of which quotes me. Evading the topic, and youre blaming some archetype? I dont know whats wrong man, but maybe tiu should talk to someone.

people around here don't understand what the word "proof" means. see: "Russiagate" /russian collusion / russians "hacking" the election... its fucking ridiculous.

pizzagate... etc etc

I could make a tearful and heartfelt video about how I was just abducted and tortured by a pack of orangutans driving a white van. It could be uploaded within the hour. Would that be enough for you to believe me?

Keep up the good work. You are dealing with people who are desperate to hold on to their belief that the TV is their friend that people would not lie about something as serious as a school shooting.

Your chances of changing their minds are somewhere between 'slim' and 'nil', but others who read these exchanges will be able to recoginse that your questions are fair and honest, and the replies are no different to those of normies who still believe Osama dun 9/11.

so if a liqour store is robbed in another part of the country, it was aa hoax, got it

Why would the Cabal want a fake blood sacrifice? They don't. They want the real thing.

Their religion involves pedophilia, ritual human sacrifice, and cannibalism. I mean, for real, and not pretend. I went through this with people regarding the LV false flag event. I would not be surprised if they harvest the body parts from the victims. They do this stuff for real.

Why don't you fly to Florida and go to the funerals? Bring a blow horn or something.

What happens to the fake dead kids? Hide them from their friends and family for the rest of their lives and hope they never talk?

Because you can’t answer them. Because your theory makes no sense.

Your headline puts forward the idea that it is a staged drill gone live and a hoax. Even if you didn't explicitly say it, you basically did and we all know what your theory is.

The evidence that it's real are the dozens of eyewitness accounts of what happened by teachers, students and law enforcement, the police reports of what happened, the images of dead bodies on the ground, the gunman who admits to the shooting and the actual dead and injured people in hospitals and funeral homes across the city.

It's pretty clearly a real mass school shooting.

https://www.infowars.com/nsfw-graphic-footage-of-florida-massacre-aftermath/

The video shows bodies on the ground and some have red splotches nearby. The assumptions being made are: 1) that the bodies are dead or injured by gunfire, 2) that the red substance is in fact blood, 3) that the filming of the video happened live during the event.

your just ignoring all pertinent questions. If you actually gave two shits you would go down there and prove it to yourself. Interview the families hang round the school see how people are acting. But no you want evidence that will never be good enough for you to be posted here while ignoring any question put to you.

Not to be a fanboy, but here's what I know. MSM is chatting up the latest BAD GUN THING. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to blame it on bullying, pharmaceuticals, the social seperation of a lonely teen on the edge of a break, bad parenting etc.... They are going to blame a gun. they are going to make guns look like shit.. and to be clear I dont even own one of the fkng things, but I know that citizens NEED to own them.. Back on track, so this thing happened, regardless of what it was what we have now are parents, children, parades, protests and all kind of shit on every news channel saying GUNS ARE BAD, GUNS DID THIS, HELP OUT BY DOING SOMETHING WITH THE GUNS. I want to know what kind of teenager goes through a school shooting watching their friends die and then decides to do CNN interviews and protest gun rights....

Real deaths produce parents who are intent on finding the truth and exacting revenge on the true perpetrators. The security state can't have that, now can they?

I agree, unless the parents are in on it, too.

I do not have a TV, but did you see much regarding the funerals and families from the LV false flag attack in the MSM?

In what sense is it important to anyone else that you personally are convinced that the shooting was a hoax?

Some of us like to discuss 'conspiracies' on the conspiracy sub.

Some of us also like to ask for evidence from those who believe the MSM stories.

If you haven't noticed. We have many users on this sub who are here to argue against conspiracies that don't jive with the MSM message. So much for have conspiracy conversation.

Sadly yes the PR team is here.

It's good to argue against conspiracies mate, otherwise we're just sitting around wanking each other off.

I think most people that subscribe here are in some search for truth, through that search comes discussion.

I agree. However their is a group posting MSM spam here as if it were r/politics. The same group argues every conspiracy against the MSM narrative. Insults are thrown and it becomes another circle jerk sub. My message was aimed at that group.

A child of God is dead. Cannot we acknowledge in this country that we can't- we cannot accept this. I can't do it /u/joe_jaywalker I'm sor- We can't do it. holds back tears

Lmao I'm sure you understood my reference, but if not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG0a04PX-zY

hahaha

What kinda sadistic shit is this? You're both gross. He may have been grandstanding, sure, but both parents and students are scared as fuck to let their kids go to school anymore.

Being cynical in this sub is common. Being heartless is not.

but both parents and students are scared as fuck to let their kids go to school anymore.

Then maybe tell your beloved FBI to stop letting school shooters "accidentally" slip through their hands. Heartless? Oh please. You literally just said the ex-FBI agent was grandstanding. LOL. It's all fake. All pulling on YOUR heartstrings and I'm laughing at YOU for slurping up this garbage friend.

There may be some false flags, with TIs as the shooter, but like Sandy Hook, real kids died. Hoaxes are like Flat Earth, the fog of confirmation bias.

Literally every statement in this comment is wrong. Not even kidding.

TI's??

Targeted individuals.

ahh

ok. if they're being heartless answer this. The man in the video, did his commentary seem legitimate to you, or did they make you feel like you were watching showtime B movies..? Did you see at the beginning how he quite obviously dove into rehearsed commentary? cmon srsly. you can't say that you dont recognize these things.. so why then, is this man on the fkng television, with his script, and his words, and his drama??

He seems like he should be on E!

yea how can you look at this guy and acknowledge the obvious staged feel of the video and not ask a single question after that?

The only question I'd ask is what CNN editor is he fucking, because even anchors look embarrassed.

So close. I mean, he ALMOST got a tear loose. Had to turn from the camera instead.

Yeah, mocking suffering sure is "winning". You guys are fucking sadists.

We all have intuition, judgement etc. Mine tells me that guy in the vid on MSM is reciting a dcript he practiced a few times and doing a shit job of it. And I find myself asking what his fkng angle is...

The theory that shootings may be false flags is one thing. Your position of, evidence that's not irrefutable is worthless because you've arbitrarily proclaimed the more likely truth to be yours is ridiculous.

So is the way you reference Occam's razor. Do you think the school doesn't exist? The kids? The parents? You seem to imply that in the comments which would basically be the least likely scenario imaginable but you don't defend it at all. You just say you "know" other fake shootings happened, again without evidence, and therefore it must be assumed this one was fake.

This is exactly the type of post made by people arguing in bad faith. Even your cheeky little edit is sarcastic and designed as a barb at people you disagree with and not as a conversation starter. You're like a child telling your sibling you're not touching them in the car.

Joe for prez, muthafuckaz!

He may well be a bigger cunt than Trump, so he stands a decent chance with the GOP.

This is a new account because I got banned from conspiracy and I'm tired of just creeping and want to post again.

I have no proof of anything but I recently got a text from my boss who recently retired and said her niece went to that school and she's pretty shook up and hasn't talked to her dad much about it.

Last night I texted her this video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=681&v=mh0vLii-gBU

I told her it seems something shady is going on and if she could have her niece check it out and give me info I would appreciate it.

My thoughts are it was a false flag. People died but there's much more to the story. Same with Vegas. Sandy Hook on the other hand I believe was a hoax. No dead kids.

Keep on researching fellas.

These kind of people should need to provide extraordinary proof that they aren't completely delusional before anyone wastes their time w/ them. All he did to this point was provide us with enough evidence to deem that he needs professional help.

nice gaslighting

These kind of people

That's the way. Attack the OP for asking questions, rather than trying to provide evidence.

yea I don't understand. If it's bullshit and you don't agree with it and you're just another person on the web then why even comment??? why bot just click your happy ass out of here lol... fkn weird shit man. I'm out lol

These kind of people.. lol In America we have free speech (so far). The usual response to something one actually finds ridiculous is no response at all... yet here you are.

As I dont feel like sifting through the internet to figure it out, has any actual evidence been provided to this thread?

No

Here's the "picture of upset looking women" which is actually a video of crying children, an injured student being carried out by a LEO and body on the floor in a pool of blood.

I also mentioned that all of the witness testimony from the students, teachers and law enforcement on the scene is in fact evidence. Evidence that would hold up in a court of law.

The shooter himself has admitted to the shootings. A confession is certainly evidence.

This has been an enlightening post. Thank you

Prove to me that you exist

Hey you're actually on to something. He might send you a picture of himself and then you might say "well how do we know it's really you? Could be someone else." All he's asking is for you to use that same level of criticism when being presented with claims made by the state.

If you want to live in a world where you only believe things that can be empirically proved by yourself, then that's a spiral into paranoia and delusion.

If something looks fucky, I'll look a little deeper, sure, but a mentally fucked up kid living in a country with the most retarded gun culture shooting up a school seems par for the course.

And this guy is being a bit of a bellend about it, too, which doesn't help. No one in this thread is going to satisfy him so from here it just seems like he's wanking off his own ego about how bright he is.

Then again, I can't even prove he exists so I should just go and fuck myself with my girlfriends dildo, if that even still exists, since it's not in my line of vision right now.

I agree. I think we should fund OP here to go visit Cruz in prison. They could have a lot in common.

Do you believe it was a false flag? Or a hoax?

They do have different definitions you know.

This was an interesting thought. experiment OP.

The evidence would be the dead people, their families and the 100's of eyewitnesses. If you are going to deny all that as evidence then you might as well just give up and live in a fantasy land of your own choosing.

"I don't people actually die because really no one has provided any evidence that they aren't all faking it and are then moved to a secret island"

60% downvoted. Thread made 10 hours ago. No up votes. 134 comments.

Hmmmm...

I fuckin' dare yeeeeeewwwww!!!

Let's try this again: I'm looking for extraordinary evidence that New Zealand exists and is not possibly an elaborate globalist conspiracy. For those who seem sure it is NOT A HOAX, please post your "proof" here:I tried this yesterday with this thread and pretty much the best anyone could do was post the patented vertical shitty quality "Oy Mate" cell phone video and link to an AMA that a supposed New Zealander did. If you're so sure this is a real country, let this be a depository of irrefutable proof that couldn't possibly be faked. You can reference it later when we crazies come along and say that it might be a hoax, proving that real Kiwis exist and people have met them.

I've never been to New Zealand. Have you seen pictures? Faked. Met someone from New Zealand? Government agent. You've been? Shill. Bought goods from New Zealand? Don't think so, it doesn't exist. PROVIDE ME WITH EVIDENCE NEW ZEALAND EXISTS THAT ISN'T FROM THE MSM. Our history books, our news, it's all doctored to create this fake country.

See how easy that is? What is "evidence" beyond you having witnessed the event first hand? Anything anyone brings up you're calling fake or fakeable - EVERYTHING could be faked. Nothing could exist. You're making your best guess, and if your best guess at this point is that this is actually fake, you're not very good at guessing.

New Zealand is of course a fictional entity that describes the contents of a fictional border around a factual landmass. New Zealand is therefore no more real than say Harry Potter, except in terms of what we choose to believe is real... To stand within the borders of New Zealand would be to believe that such a place exists. Unfortunately this is a bad example if your point, as New Zealand can only be proven by examining a chain of documents, the originator of said chain being a document that someone just ‘made up’ with a name, New Zealand, that was a manifestation of the human mind... hence... fiction.

But as for the concept of your post... this’s right here is the real question... I would argue that because everything can be faked, an even higher degree of vigilance is required when assessing claims that have the capacity to change opinions of entire nations, such as 9/11, school shootings, or any emotionally charged event. It’s a matter of public interest, and the public should have enough access to verify the accuracy of reporting, lest we get led down a dark path by nefarious ‘actors’.

There is a high value placed on an ability to manipulate the beliefs and emotions of large groups of people. If you can do that, people will pay for it. Groups of people who have specialised and trained for this activity are probably present in each country’s intelligence program, but are most common in mass media. It’s what they do. It’s what their customers pay them to do. Bullshit wars. Complete with technological-bullshit-arm-race. Deepfake etc. We love fiction so much they made CGI almost indistinguishable from reality, and I’m not sure people comprehend the danger in that.

It is even more important in today’s modern world, where theatre, media, editing, graphics software have been perfected over decades to deliver convincing lies to us in the form of ‘entertainment, it’s not so hard to believe these mechanisms could be used easily to convince us a lie is real. One simply cannot just believe what they see or hear on TV, or read in an article from someone who has watched something on TV.

The result is that EVERYTHINGmust be looked at critically. I feel bad for folks who are ceirtain of things, nowadays... best to just deal in probability.

When proof is posted could you place it up at the top? I read the comments but they didn't contain any information. I thought it would be something here due to high amount of comments.

Oh man this sub never fails at bringing out the best of reddit

Has anyone stepped forward to claim eyewitness to the suspect actually firing a weapon? Even holding a weapon?

I can see how a large number of impressionable kids (and teachers) could be fooled into thinking a shooting was going on, and indeed all “evidence” so far seems to be of circumstantial quality, indistinguishable from a staged scene, as is so often the case.

Where are the eyewitnesses to a person or persons shooting?

Scrolling here, people seem to only care about testimonials. Could we possibly do a FOIA regarding evidence like bullet casings, ballistics photographs? You know... the type of analysis of the school that should probably happen before it is DEMOLISHED ?

In a similar vein, I'll grant you a disqualification for your attempt to prove it didn't occur.

Again, you seem to discount the testimony of the witnesses, and seem unwilling to actually go to the scene and talk to witnesses yourself. You're not terribly successful at planting any seeds of doubt in any of our minds.

You're invited to post any and all evidence that would make any of us question that it didn't happen below:

hahaha

If it was a false flag, then they're trying to put is in a corner. We the people are mostly decent people who play by the rules. If it was a FF then the geneva convention is a joke to them.

Of course we should continue to talk to you and others about these events hoping our attention is enough to change things.

What else can we do? https://i.imgur.com/DeKuhJw.jpg

No

No amount of video evidence or witness testimony is going to suffice

You do not know that. Many of us are skeptical of these 'mass shootings' because we understand how easy it is for TV and government to lie about events like this and get away with it.

Instead of shooting the messenger (or in the case, they with the courage to ask a simple question), why not produce the evidence which convinced you this event was real?

some of us would consider the claim that a single shooter with no apparent motive killed so many children in a modern school with CCTV and security pretty extraordinary.

Why? What is extraordinary about it?

I'm guessing OP wants to try to be a new Alex Jones vis a vis Sandy Hook

Why are you focusing on the OP? Why not just provide the evidence which you have been asked for?

So you don't think a school shooting with 17 deaths is extraordinary, but you believe it happened. For what reason do you know it happened?

Why do you keep avoiding the question, it's very simple, what do you find extraordinary about this?...

This thread is for posting evidence. If you comment in any other way besides posting evidence, you might be the one who appears to be full of shit.

You haven't posted any evidence yet you've commented, are you admitting to being full of shit?

These people need to all go back and read allegory of the cave. They're all pointing at shadows and asserting that they see 3D objects.

I fuckin' dare yeeeeeewwwww!!!

https://www.infowars.com/nsfw-graphic-footage-of-florida-massacre-aftermath/

Here's the "picture of upset looking women" which is actually a video of crying children, an injured student being carried out by a LEO and body on the floor in a pool of blood.

I also mentioned that all of the witness testimony from the students, teachers and law enforcement on the scene is in fact evidence. Evidence that would hold up in a court of law.

The shooter himself has admitted to the shootings. A confession is certainly evidence.