I really tried my best to clean it up a couple of years ago. The other mods decided I had gone rogue, and I resigned shortly afterwards. To be quite honest I barely ever come here anymore. The quality of this sub has fallen dramatically in the last couple of years and it's only getting worse.

Not anymore. Lol.

What happened is that a lot of people want this to be an echo chamber for their half assed "investigations" or "discussions" which usually just twine-balls of incorrect facts, hearsay, interpretation, etc - they want a place they can engage in fantasy play about their pet theories with people who aren't going to challenge them.

Often times the rest of reddit/the net will ignore these little spaces but sometimes we notice noxious smells or fumes coming from them and we have to come in and see what's going on.

Remember when that guy went into a pizza place with a gun because he spent too much time reading BS on the internet? Yea, that's what got the sub shut down...it was turning into this insane schizo witch hunt.

Of course pedophiles exist, of course they talk to and help eachother, and of course some of them have power. The "pizzagate" thing overall though is just a bunch of misinterpretation, cherry picking, and seeing jesus's face in toast.

When people come in and ask questions and press for evidence and point out that there are more possible explanations than the ones being put forward -better ones - then a lot of people complain and start throwing "shill" around.

If this is supposed to be an open discussion and debate you should be open to hearing alternate opinions.

Case in point - Seth Rich. It's a fact that random murders/botched robberies happen. We also don't know all the details of what happened. There's no reason Seth Rich couldn't be a perfectly mundane murder, the fact that so many people act as if it HAS to be something sinister demonstrates that they aren't working based on evidence & rationality but are engaging in motivated reasoning.

There's also the fact that Seth Rich couldn't have been the only leaker...and there's a ton of evidence that the DNC was hacked by hackers of russian origin or alignment. Pretty much everyone, including the russians when they're being honest, agrees that they engage in these sorts of campaigns.

The seth rich leaking thing doesn't make sense, and if we're gonna go down that road you also have to take time to consider the possibility that seth rich's murder was part of a russian plot to cover their tracks - to create a fall guy.

It's never made sense to think he was the leaker, the main evidence is julian assange sort of implying it (though not even that really, just letting people believe it) and it's been proven again and again that he has no problem lying or implying things are true if it suits him.

You're right that circumstantial evidence can warrant further investigation.

Is it really "overwhelming circumstantial evidence" though?

It's not just about the type and amount, it's about HOW it was collected. Circumstantial evidence has to be analyzed in a context of what we can and do know in order to be meaningful.

It's important to conduct investigations in a certain way. You start by establishing certain facts, then you follow threads, develop ideas, test them, keep collecting info...etc.

What a lot of pizzagaters do though is they just anomaly hunt. They just dig through a pile of info of dubious quality and collect everything they think is "weird". They usually don't bother seriously trying other theories besides the pet one they have. They also discard anything that doesn't fit.

So what you end up with at the end is a big dump of "evidence" pasted together in MS paint where it's dubious as to whether it's even true and there's no actual analysis.

Most of the "evidence" I've seen of pizzagate is easily just lack of imagination or ignorance on the "researchers" part.

Stuff like "oh they called children 'entertainment' in this email NOBODY would do that, PIZZAGATE PIZZAGATE"

Except I've hear adults use the type of language in the emails tons of times. Most pizzagaters are young males so I guess it's hard for them to imagine, but a lot of people genuinely like being around kids in a totally innocent way. They find them entertaining and they enjoy the idea of nurturing the next generation.

Pizzagate will forever be tainted by the fact that there's so many people in it that will go "I found this one strange phrase in an email and even though I didn't really try I can't think of ANY explanation except pedos therefore it's pedos"

That's why it's a bit funny to hear some people complain about the "debunkers"...if you actually care about uncovering "the truth" and "beating THEM" then you'd want to eliminate the bad actors and idiots from your own team.

This sub has always been as 'anti establishment' as it gets. People who think of themselves as such are drawn here. Trump very much portrayed himself as anti establishment, and his supporters believe him. So they flock here, where they feel they belong, but it shifts the political makeup of the sub, and now you have a bunch of people who think the president and his people are fighting the good fight against all those other terrible people in government.

Aaand obviously that also means that anyone who wants to do some astroturfing sees that this place is A) full of Trump supporters, and B) full of anti-establishment people, many of whom flocked to Trump in 2016, and so should be ripe for the picking.

r/thedonald happened. This sub died HARD around election time. Objectivity and skepticism when out the window. I don't know why I didn't unsubscribe then.

R/conspiracy seems to be very conservative. You have to sort out the deep state from the Russians and if you are political there is no objectivity. If we all could agree that either Trump is an embarrassment or that he is awesome, we'd be more stable. As it is, until we can believe our lying eyes, we're going to fight.

This is because your fellow humans have sold out having not developed any useful real world skills so they get paid to incite, discredit and gaslight you and everyone else in this sub.

I recognized this a few years ago and I no longer (besides this) comment anymore. Nobody is interested in real truth here. My suggestion would be wherever the most hate, the most ridiculed topics are those ones typically where the most truth lies.

Flat earth for example, I have measured across 46 miles of open water and about 100 miles over land and it is measurably flat and level yet it will be ridiculed and downvoted. Everything in the Bible and the book of Enoch is true. The biggest conspiracy of all is the hiding of God. The devil’s greatest trick...

Pure evil exists and has generationally for thousands of years. The serpent seed has only expanded over time and has deceived everyone about almost everything.

I highly suggest getting your information from the Bible as it is the only truth in a world full of lies. We have been overcome with Satan and his army.

Over a hundred years ago, some alien presence broke through the space time continuum and created a path that ended above Vostok russia. We are now seeing the results of that on this humble sub.

It wasn't terrible until all the r/politics CTR/SB shills showed up

It really started to go to shit about 5 years ago. It's basically a useless sub as there are just better places for this kind of discussion. Reddit is an echo chamber for Marxists, and then the Donald is a place for civic nationalism. If you're doing more than shit posting on reddit as a whole, you're kinda goofy.

this sub is as compromised as a Weinstein casting call.

in the last 2 years, this sub has made me hate people in general.

Excellent post dude. Yeah, once we realize the game is rigged we can start taking action.

Wish I could give you gold but I can barely survive myself...

Every week there is a gilded meta-post about how shitty this subreddit is. There was never a time before shills, trolls, and brigades. If you want to find real content with genuine discussion, sort under New or Controversial. Ignore vote scores cause they don't matter.

Do you think a subreddit titled conspiracy is likely to attract the more stable minded individuals?

The shills have invaded

Sometimes their history goes from regular posts In a bunch of subs to only here.

Often You can pinpoint the day the account was sold to a shill.

The fact that someone is paying millions to attempt to silence a bunch of conspiracy dudes on reddit shows you how much that have already dominated other media and discussions. They are on to smaller fish / clean up mode.

Nah, they've been here since day one.

Dude, your account is named russianbot01. You literally just joined here for pizzagate and to call anyone on the left a shill.

Yeah, I should have used a cool name like pstream I guess.

i think its slipstream.

I don’t believe that for a second. Sure it sound plausible but when you look deeper you’ll see it’s really meat rips L. And we all know what that means!

Its pretty clearly satire, are you thick?

I never understood how that works. Are shill companies approaching redditors and purchasing their accounts or is someone within reddit handing over inactive accounts to shill companies? There hasn't been evidence to support either theory, and I'm sure someone would come forward at some point.

How strange would it be to come back to reddit after a long break to find your account has been used for shilling, right?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/UnethicalLifeProTips/comments/6x9ckp/ulpt_want_some_quick_cash_sell_reddit_accounts/

Sounds like you can get an account for $2. But a high karma one might fetch $100-$200.

If someone offered me $100 for this account I would probably take it.

I also saw a few sketchy looking websites in my quick google search that say they pay for accounts.

Oh damn there really is a market out there

I think some of the shill companies are setting them up themselves.

No evidence though. This sub should be named "noevidencebutwhoneedsthatanyway"

Dude. This is a conspiracy theroy subreddit.

We can discuss theroys without having full knowledge.

Just because we don't know everything isn't a reason to not ask questions or post ideas.

I can spur on others to present the other facts they may have. Even if I am lacking.

Some people just want to shit on the whole thing to discredit any discussion.

And yes we have to check out suspicious account history. Doesn't mean everyone is a shill, but we do know it happens all the time so that why we must look.

Yup and we have rules in place protecting them for some reason...

Anywhere that invokes many rules and regulations will not be friendly to free speech

Considering this sub calls anyone a 'shill' who has a realistic outlook that isn't "deep state" enough or linked to pedophilia or globalism, I don't know if I can take your comment seriously. I've been called a shill a few times just for pointing out fallacies in borderline retarded theories on here. Listen, we a love being woke and being aware of some shady shit that goes on and not being corporate consumer sheep. We like discussion, that's why we all come here right? But the moment the discussion becomes a debate and not a circle jerk this sub collapses in on itself and suddenly any opposing viewpoint is just some FBI shill.

Question everything, have an open mind, don't believe everything you're spoonfed by mainstream media. Loom into shit. We can all agree on this stuff, but can we lose the fucking tribalistic autism and value self awareness over paranoia?

It's literally conservative shills calling liberals shills.

That's the summary of this sub. They got here first with the Hillary Benghazi/Hillary Email stuff and they can't let go of the fact that just maybe there is something bad about Trump worth looking at.

Or most likely, the same subs that took over the front of /r/all are trying to take over here as well.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that certainly isn't the most likely outcome.

It's literally the most likely outcome you mean? After taking over /r/politics, /r/news and /r/worldnews, creating several shill subreddits, you think there's no way they'd target this sub?

Fair enough, friend, but I disagree with you

No way WHO would?

Except a small handful of mods control all those subreddits.

Supermods that somehow have power across an insane amount of subreddits and it's not seen as fishy

If anything, this helps bolster my point.

Do you recall how r/the_donald took over r/all during the election? They took over many subs. They were all over here, r/politics, hell I even remember seeing them in r/trees.

The problem is r/the_donald and strictly anti-Hillary people refuse to come to terms that Donald Trump is arguably worse (and let me say this since so many of you love him, he's just as equally bad--is that fair?) than Trump.

Instead of showing that you really care about justice and fairness, as were the claims during Hillary's Benghazi/emails, etc, those same people are refusing to acknowledge all the shit Trump is caught up in.

It's simply, conservatives got here first. That's it.

yep, I said it quite often, the_dump cult is cancer

You remember when Donald Trump sat down for a half-hour interview with Alex Jones? Perhaps not, you probably think Alex is a lunatic.

Because he is?

Yeah, fuck those conspiracy theorist whackos.

In the case of Alex Jones, yes.

He’s just some asshole selling shitty pills to people who wanna hear him spew bullshit

Alex Jones literally called himself a "performance artist"

Alex Jones according to his own lawyer is a 'performance artist'.

https://www.vox.com/2017/4/26/15427170/alex-jones-custody-battle-performance-artist-satire

That's the thing, I'm a very very anti-Hillary person. I'm also a very very anti-Trump. I find myself more at odds with the Hillary supporters though because for all the talk about how bad Trump supporters are, I see an incredible number of Hillary supporters acting worse. I see them far more than I see Trump supporters. That wouldn't even be a big deal if it weren't accompanied by them talking non-stop about Trump circle jerks and how Reddit hates minorities and women. Reddit is by and large a very liberal place. As a centerist who leans slightly more left than right, it would even work for me. But the constant act as if they are under attack for seeing an opinion that differs is infuriating. Then you glance at the votes, and they are upvoted while dissenting opinions are downvoted into oblivion. There is basically a demand for confirmation bias, and an almost total lack of self awareness politically, and while neither side is immune or remotely free of it, the left here on Reddit seems to really be championing that cause.

The hope would be that we could understand that political affiliations ultimately don't matter in a sub like this. People should understand that neither their nor the opposition's party is good or trustworthy, but instead we get a constant cycle of both attacking the other side while defending something that is ultimately indefensible. It almost seems that we are at a saturation point with partisanship.

This is about calling out behavior that both sides exhibit.

Funny how a comment with this in it gets downvoted so it's hidden. I'd bet some LTC that if you would've just called out the Trump supporters that wouldn't be the case.

That could be true, but the reality is that both sides need to be called out. Both lack the self awareness to see what they are becoming and it isn't good. It's at the point of hate just for the sake of hate on both sides, but I guess I don't know how to express that in a way that people will understand.

But there are good people on both sides. /s

You know, you are probably correct. There probably aren't any good people on either side. I mean, the concept that someone like yourself would basically say there weren't any good people on the other side shows just how completely mentally fucked the partisan divide is.

Absolutely. Well spoken, sir.

The 'both sides are shit' argument is normally brought out here to distract from the Republicans failings.

Because guess what Democrats suck but we would still have net neutrality under them, the top 1% wouldn't get massive tax cuts under them, etc.

So you know what sucks? Losing rights or protections under the law because the other side doesn't agree with them. But with both parties absolutely ready and willing to take away piece by piece or wholesale everything people enjoy, no party is the party of the good guys.

You guys gonna keep copying and pasting this list in every thread to REEEEE about liberals?

Look how many subs there are against him though. You can’t deny there’s a massive liberal bias on Reddit.

Well the worst part being the supposed non biased subs like politics and news shouldn’t be so liberal slanted.

Maybe because young people who use the internet are mostly liberals?

Yeah it could be that. It could also be bots/shills too paid by some powerful groups. Conde Nast who won Reddit are liberals so it’s not that hard to believe.

But honestly it’s all too stressful for me. I’m just trying to live simply and be happy.

Shame you are getting downvoted, friend. +1 from another real user.

Lol spamming this list over and over doesn't prove anything.

Or maybe it's just people with different opinions? Why does everyone have to be a shill? Are you a shill?

If someone comes up with bad about Trump to look at, sure. But if it's talking points from CNN and ShareBlue, sorry it doesn't belong on this sub. No dice.

Sounds good, now please also throw out anything with Fox News or Breitbart associated to it, and we can have some solid discussion.

Any talking points from cable news of any brand do not belong on /r/conspiracy. End of story. In the interest of non-censorship I understand the tolerance, but they are badly out-of-place nevertheless.

I'm a shilling shill that shills shilling down by the sea shore.

Russia Russia Russia Russia RUSSIA !!!1! ... no, there are no DNC shills anywhere in media or on social media

Noone said that though. You're just bringing up Russia and DNC shills because you want to distract from OP's very valid point.

This comment is a magnificent example of a certain type of shilling called "concern trolling", I believe.

Fortunately, those of us here who already know the difference will see right through your little masquerade.

And this little comment right here that you made, is what normal people call "delusion" but enjoy your fucking bubble.

Ohhhh I'm so hurt!

How quickly you changed your tone, my good man.

I'm not trying to hurt you. I just find it funny that you made up a term for someone who tries to think about things logically and look at all sides. God forbid we have a discussion that has some viewpoints outside of your rabbit hole huh?

To be fair it is not a made up term and is a very effective forum sliding tactic. Concern trolling is another way of undermining confidence in a topic by showing "concern" or expressing doubt in an insincere way to undermine it. When really taking the opportunity to bash te topic in a passive aggressive manner. Not saying thats whats going on here but it isn't just made up. The term has been around for yrears.

Thank you

, don't believe everything you're spoonfed by mainstream media.

Don't believe everything in youtube videos either

There are a shitload of things on this sub I disagree with. I'm not into aliens for example. But I just don't go into those threads. Problem solved. Why the fuck people go into threads and comment on things they don't know about and don't care about and don't like is utterly beyond me. That's shill behavior. Or just stupid and inconsiderate.

don't believe everything you're spoonfed by mainstream media

This is of course good advice, but some people have taken this to the point of "always believe the opposite of whatever the mainstream media says." I imagine that before Trump, the people on this sub would be all over a possible conspiracy involving the president colluding with Russia. That is A grade conspiracy fodder. But now that such a thing is suggested by the mainstream media, the "conspiracy" thing to do in some people's minds it to deny it is even possible. And in addition to these people you have those who have bought into the Trump personality cult for whom "truth" merely connotes "that which benefits the leader." Both of these groups of people are not debating with an honest interest in finding truth (I use the word "truth" here to mean that which corresponds with reality).

Yes, I've noticed this too! It is amazing that they see the world through such a "simple", black/white lens. whether they legitimately forget or are just in denial, I'm unsure but I find it fascinating that they seem completely unable to comprehend any sort of nuance or complexity to any and all situations; especially their failure to understand that TPTB "know" and use these beliefs/this behaviour to their benefit, too. propaganda is not as blatant or straight-forward as it once was anymore. ultimately, in their "efforts" to be "woke" and make sense of current events, etc. they're being manipulated just the same but goodluck trying to tell them that, lol

I don't think many conspiracy theorists, atleast here in this thread are claiming it's not possible for any two politicians to have colluded or conspired. The impression I get and something I feel is being downplayed is that most of us know politics is a game and ultimately a public facade and drama that is ultimately irrelevant.

World leaders manufacture disputes and cooperation, it's all about instilling the idea they are important and working for us. They might aswell all be video game characters.

I honestly believe whether Trump, Hilary, Obama or Bush was president or not, we would still see the same wars, same debts and same BS. They have the same script and just swap out the characters.

If you're proclaiming your own outlook realistic in a conspiracy sub, you have no interest in good faith discussion. Being a skeptic means being a skeptic about everything, even if it doesn't seem realistic on the surface.

Full assault lately. They don’t even feign genuine interest in the topics, they are just here to mock, ridicule and offer the plausibility of the official narrative.

It’s the most inorganic behavior I’ve ever witnessed...but don’t call them shills!

but don’t call them shills!

It's fun to see just how close you can get to stating that without actually using those words though.

mix of Russia, DNC, advertisers, feds

I really don’t buy the Russian thing. Wouldn’t it be in the interest of Russia to promote conspiracy theory, which implicates U.S. intelligence agencies and not undermine it?

By Russia, I mean botnets for hire, which are nearly always hosted in Russia.

I don't have a genuine interest in conspiracy theory topics, but I come here without being paid. It pops up on my /r/all, and it's a good place to get into an argument.

And that’s fine.

However most long time conspiracy buffs would agree that an argument with a casual user is a waste of time. Generally speaking you have to develop a historical perspective to grasp the grand architecture of conspiracy beliefs. If you’re not willing to at least consider that possibility, then it’s a waste of time to debate the minutia that isn’t likely to impact your worldview.

I think we lost some unspoken rules. I'm in a similar position to the commenter your replying to; not a regular but sometimes it's the only place discussing an article. And it's funny to watch people spin. BUT I've been around long enough to know what /all does to a smaller sub. I don't vote because it's not my sub to decide what gets discussed, and I'll refrain from commenting unless I think I've got something to add, I try not to argue.

Like your a guest in a smaller sub, don't fling shit at the walls and cuss out the people who live here.

Exactly. Obviously as long as you are polite, we welcome your contribution.

Right it's beyond just civility though. Small subs just can't take a lot of outside influence, intentional or otherwise, without losing their character. Presumably if you come here, it's for the subs content. If you actively vote/submit then you're not getting this subs content you're just looking in the mirror. I suspect most people didn't come here for the content they came to argue so here we are

Well I certainly wish that onlookers had the same respect and candor as yourself. Unfortunately as you can see that it is not the case.

...and this being a conspiracy subreddit, one could infer that the efforts to subvert and control the conversations and content are not the mere misguided efforts of a few overzealous lurkers, but something more nefarious altogether ;)

Have? They’ve been here for quite a while(since before the 2016 election), driving discussion the way they want.

We should start looking into ways to prevent this sub from going off track too often. Shills not only try to reinforce mainstream narratives, they probably also post dumb theories to get us distracted and going down the wrong path. The more bullshit they post, the more dilute the sub becomes and the more difficult it is to obtain useful information.

I think there should be a periodic reminder that there have been a great deal of proven conspiracies, some of them being international in scope, and involving large groups of people who got away with it for many years. This completely wipes out several of their main narratives, including the claim that the government must be too incompetent to pull off large conspiracies.

Periodically focusing on conspiracy facts, rather than theories, especially when many of the proven ones are very similar to current unproven theories, would do a lot of good here.

r/exposingconspiracy

Conspiracies have been made mainstream in the last 6-8 years. I remember watching Zeitgeist back in 2007 and thinking “wow, this is nuts”. No one (to my knowledge) before that connected world banks and religion to a mass conspiracy to rule over the masses. This has been made mainstream for a lot of reasons. Mostly the internet and it’s free-range of information; imo

It's all about a new pearl harbor now

They're so numerous it's gotta be at least partially AI. So we're fighting an army of unlimited numbers. Fuck.

What do you want to talk about op?

Gotcha, I wanted to see if you had a different topic you wanted to talk about.

It's been pretty bad. I'm constantly being told to read the Bible and having my sources disregarded because I don't really know what I am talking about. It's pretty funny

Lol. I hear ya. I'm at the point where I just don't care about those kinds of comments. This hard black /white division is fucking everyone up when the truth is that everything's gray. Ignore them. Find someone that acts like an adult and have a decent conversation. We're still lurking

Haha. That's good to hear. Baby steps. You always have to dig through the garbage to find the good stuff. Beautiful flowers grow out of shit. This sub will be alright..

Isn't communism leftist?

Ideal communism, yes, communism in practice is usually just a dictatorship though, and ends up reflecting the views of the leader more.

We've never actually had a truly successful communist country.

We would all be better off if we didn't insist on putting others into boxes.

Well, why don't you figure your politics out? "Nothing" doesn't mean anything except confusion.

If you think someone is missing the point, you should state the point. I tend to think you don't have one.

Why do people have to fall into one of the two parties? I mean, for fuck's sake, this is a conspiracy subreddit. I kinda would rather see people not blindly follow either side on here. There are political subreddits for that. And I encourage you to visit them and compartmentalize yourself on those, if you feel so inclined. But when on a conspiracy subreddit it seems best to try to keep an open mind. If the post doesn't align with your worldview, then you just move to the next post. Ultimately upvotes and discussion should win. I kinda wish downvotes were disabled on this subreddit.

I didn't say follow either of the two corrupted parties. But don't be under the illusion that every singe politician is a bad guy; that's ridiculous. There exists tons of nuance. They're human beings. Some of them are absolute heroes. I vote Green Party sometimes, but it's not looking good for third parties in the U.S. If we want to actually make change- for instance, I do drug legalization work- we have to deal with the political reality.

I always expected this subreddit to not be partisan because I wouldn't expect it to blindly trust anyone!

I hate Trump. I don't like Hillary. I wanted Bernie. There are conspiracies around all three of them, and I want them all discussed here, because this should have been the best place to talk about it without it being a politics war. Without people telling you to "shut up, because proof" yet, here we are, "shills" no matter what we say.

Am I interested in some conspiracies more than others because of my political biases? Yes. Absolutely. But I won't shit on other people for theirs on a conspiracy subreddit? No!

I won't downvote a hillary conspiracy on here, or a Bernie one on here.

Hell, if Bernie is entangled in some weird shit I would like a heads up. So please, conspire freely about any and everyone. But... we can't do that here.

There are plenty of solutions but they mostly involve the admins enpowering the users and not the mods and not the shills. For example, when you create a post you should be able to turn off downvotes in your thread when you start it, you should be able to have an invite only discussion, you should be able to view a users upvote and downvote totals in the sub you are in for the last 30 days. That is just what I can up with in less than a few hours. The admins know these solutions an more, but all changes have been pro shill changes.

What about voat conspiracy? The issue there is that there's random racism. I dunno if they are shills trying to discredit the site or what.

People come here just to try to discredit certain topics 🤔 gotta pretty good idea of what happened.

I mean, I, and I'm sure a bunch of other people, are mostly subscribed here for the yucks. It doesn't have anything to do with astro-turfing.

I have walnut sauce all over my Cheese hotdog and my handkerchief map.

(I think that's really bad sorry FBI.)

He's just joking, FBI guy. chill

Need I remind you that the Chinese are not the only state with black vans.

Hey, I think you dropped your pizza related handkerchief

I think Lyne de Rothschild calling Podesta, a "loser" made my day. We may not get justice but nice to see them eat each other.

She's probably pissed because he'll be the one responsible for bringing down the entire system. Wouldn't that be great.

I think you mean cheese or pasta. There was no mention of pizza.

Look at my profile, I posted a story about the billion couple that was found murdered that had ties to the Clintons in Haiti ... go read the comments. No open minded discussion whatsoever.

Anyone who has been using reddit since before the 2016 presidential primaries knows exactly what happened, but anyone who says it gets downvoted and/or called a loon.

Russian. Troll. Army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyjVT1BywAw&app=desktop

Hillary's. Troll. Army.

https://www.NOT_BRAINWASHED_BY_THE_MSM_BOOGEYMAN

Troll army vs troll army.

And simply using reddit as a metric, I would say that one troll army clearly has been given free access to the front page while the other was banned months ago.

Regardless of what your personal relative favorabilities are towards either of the two, I feel pretty confident saying neither has been effectively banned from reddit. They, and every form of social media simply don't have the capacity to effectively block out any determined "troll army" with sufficient resources, as can be seen across the internet and globe.

I feel pretty confident saying neither has been effectively banned from reddit.

The front page invalidates your point immediately. Obviously only one troll army is having the door opened for them.

I won't reject the notion of Russian trolls but it has absolutely been Hillary's camp that has been most influential on Reddit. I'll never forget the day after Sanders lost the primary the complete 180 this entire website made and never looked back. It's one big propoganda network and has been for more than a year now.

The extent to which Russia has influenced Reddit's atmosphere I cannot know, and Hillary's camp's (for lack of a better identifier) motivations I can only guess at, but it seems clear to me that reddit has not offered an organic user experience on many of the controversial subs for quite a while.

I feel the same.

I get a feeling of anxiety if I use Reddit too much, just due to the deluge of propaganda that floods the website. I may not click on the article, but after reading enough titles one can put together the narratives, both real and fake. IMO, Reddit is as compromised as Twitter.

I mean....as someone who went from supporting Sanders to Clinton I can pretty easily explain it.
It was Sanders v Clinton. I purposely avoided ever talking negatively about her in case she won but others didn't--we wanted Sanders to win so talking negatively about the competition is going to happen.
Then Sanders lost. So she was the democratic nominee which made it Clinton v Trump. Me and many others may have preferred Sanders...but we greatly preferred Clinton to Trump. So, yeah, people changed over. But it's not nearly as stark as you're saying.
The Sanders sub was still going on even well after all hope was lost. There were jokes around reddit about 'so you're saying there's a chance' about people still holding out hope for him to miraculously (impossibly) get the nom.
And, then, some people still held on to the Clinton hate and continued--some went third party or even over to Trump.
So, as someone who as pretty deep into that stuff...it wasn't as big a 180 as you make it out to be but, even the change that did happen, is completely understandable.

To a lot of these people it went Sanders >> Clinton >>>>>>>>> Trump
So the '180' makes perfect sense.

EDIT: I don't word well. Needed my coffee.

I'm not just talking about the shift from Sanders support to Clinton support. The day after the primaries ended this entire website was one big newstation for Clinton 2016 coverage. The entire front page was completely full of pro-Clinton or anti-Trump garbage every single day for the rest of the year until Nov 20. It was a complete shift for the website.

Because the site is populated, largely, by liberal people and she was the liberal candidate. It's not hard to figure out.

Not.

It's amazing which conspiracies you'll buy into and which you won't... almost like it's politically motivated or something...

One of the cornerstones of the conspiracy community is a lack of trust in the mainstream media. It has always been that way, decades before this election or Trump.

So I would ask you to answer your own question. Since it is blatantly obvious how "The Russians" mainstream media "conspiracy" has been swallowed wholesale by everyone with the political leaning to allow it.

I question whether that proof actually exists. Come at me CTR brigade.

Yep

Around the same time /r/all began to get flooded with low sub/high upvote /r/politics knock-offs

Yeah, real sick of the subs that keep popping up, with a post upvoted past 50k, while all the other posts have maximum 200 upvotes.
"Totally Organic"™

It’s honestly quite astounding how much it has changed since prior to the election

Love this post. I posted something about the Tesla car in space and my innocent speculation and was totally downvoted and beat up for it

Mods banned a long time user who detailed the history and funding of CTR, Media Matters today.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7yurfp/z/dujsmwv

Said his post was attacking users..

Hes got like 10 post. He didnt directly attack anyone..

/u/theboxsaidmild

Explain?

I saw those posts earlier and they cut threw the bullshit like butter. This place is compromised

I'd like to hear why mods really banned him. He didnt attack anyone. The only reason I see is because he owned a post about Media Matters and CTR.

Find the mod who banned for that and you can likely find the reason this place has turned into a brigade fest.

So Mods. Why is /u/theboxsaidmild banned?

there is a modlog on the sidebar

I went through several pages and couldn't find it. Hmmmm

im not really great at using it and it seems kinda clunky but I think you can filter only 'banuser' then just ctrl F for the user and start scrolling back through until you find it

See

https://snag.gy/oAdGs8.jpg

is it in the modlog

Which mod?

/u/mastigia

He posted this. Shows he is banned. Like you, its not in the mod log.

https://snag.gy/oAdGs8.jpg

Yeah I saw that post but couldn’t find it in the mod log. What’s the point of the mod log if it’s not capturing everything?

The point is .. rule 10

The part where he's banned? It's there, here:

https://snew.github.io/r/conspiracy/about/log?type=banuser

Easier to find if you only check for the bans

Edit: the removed comment was

Again. Your post looks like schizophrenia ramblings.

Why are you trying to discredit this kids acting by referencing conspiracies?

Hes acting. Hes rehearsing lines. Its clear as day on video. Why are you talking conspiracy?

Topic: "kid is litterally shown rehearsing lines in video"

Shills/You:"Tin foil hat wearers lawl Flat Earth False Flag Sandy Hook Conspiracy!"

The mods are crazy

You misspelled "in the pocket"

You are also not allowed to talk about Ruben Vardanyan and how he paid Podesta, the CLintons and multiple DNC revenue streams on /r/The_Donald, of all places. It proves the whole MSM narrative wrong and would vindicate all of the users in the sub, but the mods remove any detailed threads about him.

Wait what? Can you explain a little more please? That sounds very interesting.

Edit: When I googled his name, this is the first result that came up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HillaryForPrison/comments/7yb8lj/ruben_vardanyan_the_russian_who_paid_podesta/

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

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I find it funny that you guys say there's no discussion here but when anyone tries to do so you call them shills.

Y'all don't want discussion, you want a safe space where your views don't get challenged.

I agree but youre wrong about 1 important point : Trump is NOT a politician -- he was chosen specifically to drain the swamp because hes not apart of the filth

Trump is literally a politician. You can't pretend he's not.

Great argument!

I mean, he's the President. The Presidency is a political position.

his cabinet is full of bankers and corporate scumbags, how are you so blind to this.

He is a member of a cult.

Go on...

Seriously this is a new one for me and I am interested.

You think the people who truly run the world would allow someone outside of their control to be the president of the most powerful country on the planet? That’s a laugh. Trump is in the position he is in because he is working with them. Why do you think he’s so pro-Israel? Open your mind.

Somebody that gets paid to push a certain agenda by debating/debunking specific things.

How do you determine who is a shill and who actually holds the beliefs they are expressing?

I have alot of opinions that this sub considered to be "shilling", yet ive never received a check for my opinion

I think I can clear it up for you.

When this sub first started a "shill" was anyone pushing against a conspiracy being discussed. They usually had relatively new accounts, or older accounts with no history of participating on r/conspiracy. These older accounts were most likely purchased so as to give the appearance of legitimacy.

Post-election, a "shill" is anyone that disagrees with a perceived political opinion expressed by the OP.

Hope I helped.

There's no determination. It's an absurd logical fallacy people use when they're too lazy to actually come up with evidence or arguments to refute another person's point.

They're the ones that get oddly defensive about or frame every single comment as a question meant as a "gotcha!" and are snarky and petty as fuck.

"Source for the claim you rhetorically said? I guess you have no proof, you post on a subreddit that doesn't ban conservatives so I guess I shouldn't be surprised you racist nacho".

Just judging by the content of their post? You cannot. Full stop. In this sub, it's mostly a stupid epithet that gets thrown around when people get angry at opposing opinions.

There are almost certainly are shills here; probably ones on both sides of the political spectrum, and possibly even ones designed to look stupid and discredit conspiracy theorists altogether. But if you could identify them individually, it would mean they weren't doing their job right.

In here, on this sub, a "shill" is anyone you disagree with.

Nope

Are you calling me a Shill!?

Nope

Well I thought that was a pretty obvious joke, or maybe it was obvious, and it was just a bad joke .... All I mean was that sometimes it feels like you have "both sides" accusing each other of being shills more as an insult to their motivations more than a genuine accusation.

AMDG

Shill is just a way for people to disregard and smeer someone's opinion that they don't like. I would bet that the vast majority of people who call people shill or imply that they're shills don't really believe that they people they're talking to are getting paid by David Brock or whoever. Similar to when I was in middle school and people called those they didn't like "fags." But almost none of those people thought that they people they were insulting were gay, they just knew it was a way to shut the other person down.

I recommend reading the paper by Cass R Sunstein (friend and adviser to Obama) and Adrian Vermeule "Conspiracy Theories", to see some of the tactics that appear to be used by potential shills on conspiracy "social networks", and the reasons why they think they're effective.

You can download the full paper here: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/law_and_economics/119/ "Abstract Many millions of people hold conspiracy theories; they believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice or some terrible event. A recent example is the belief, widespread in some parts of the world, that the attacks of 9/11 were carried out not by Al Qaeda, but by Israel or the United States. Those who subscribe to conspiracy theories may create serious risks, including risks of violence, and the existence of such theories raises significant challenges for policy and law. The first challenge is to understand the mechanisms by which conspiracy theories prosper; the second challenge is to understand how such theories might be undermined. Such theories typically spread as a result of identifiable cognitive blunders, operating in conjunction with informational and reputational influences. A distinctive feature of conspiracy theories is their self-sealing quality. Conspiracy theorists are not likely to be persuaded by an attempt to dispel their theories; they may even characterize that very attempt as further proof of the conspiracy. Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a crippled epistemology, in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups. Various policy dilemmas, such as the question whether it is better for government to rebut conspiracy theories or to ignore them, are explored in this light."

Excerpts of note: "...the best response consists in cognitive infiltration... ", "Keywords: conspiracy theories, social networks, informational cascades, group polarization" "We have suggested, however, that government can minimize this effect by rebutting more rather than fewer theories, by enlisting independent groups to supply rebuttals, and by cognitive infiltration designed to break up the crippled epistemology of conspiracy minded groups and informationally isolated social networks".

Excellent source! Have seen papers similar to this one, but they pretty much lay the truth out clean here. Great excerpts. This should be higher up.

Good stuff

I have been called a shill because I was interested in the russian conspiracy and tried interacting with some of the trump cult people with it. It has definitely left me feeling I am not welcome with my opinions in this sub because there are some older users who feel threatened by new information. I have also noted some of the users who will comment on every russia post and try to derail it. This includes some of the mods of this sub.

I was called a "paid shill" for actually liking the new Star Wars movie. People are using shill for everything.

I like to point people here, it's a list of tactics and techniques used by shills.

It gets infiltrated with shills or just those who believe MSM narratives.

So, which one of those categories do ypu belong to?

Why can't it be a little of both? All MSM bad? That seems silly.

Is it possible for someone to have the opinion that a certain topic on the news is true without being a paid shill or braiwashed?

Of course it's possible. But it's also hard to ignore when those opinions align 100% with propaganda talking points of organisms such as ShareBlue and the like, which are known to target Reddit and Facebook.
I mean, the amount of narrative control by that organism should be the number one conspiracy, because how can anyone trust any opinion aligning with those talking points, if we don't know the extent of the control they have?

So its impossible to hold those same opinions at your own free will?

When did a conspiracy subreddit become about "you're either with the mainstream media, or against it!"?

I didn't know you had to be tinfoil hat level to enjoy a good conspiracy.

Yup, and they are obviously trying to turn it into a game if right vs left. It's basically a treadmill of distraction.

There have been outlandish accusations brought up by this sub. Literally that's why it's like this. Want some pepperoni?

Ok real talk.. I've never even had the thought to put actual hot pepperoni on a pizza.. It sounds amazing!

You pulling my dick, bro?

Just rantin' feel free to down vote to oblivion or discuss using our brains.

Edit* just to note. I'm writing this edit after only 30 seconds of it being live. In that time, someone down voted this post

Reasons for being immediately downvoted:

1. A user did not like your post

2. A user also made a post and downvoted yours in hopes of making theirs more visible

3. A troll/TMOR account that just downvotes everything

4. Active downvoting against particular users

5. A user responding to the OP's request to downvote in the submission

6. A paid shill

At almost 30 minutes this post is now at 9 Points / 65% upvoted / 11 comments.

As with any conspiracy or conspiracy community, you have to dig to find real discussion. We've all sorted through a ton of shit to even consider ourselves a part of this community. I personally don't see why we shouldn't have to dig through shit for the foreseeable future. It is the name of the game.

Look, after re-reading my reply I can see how it might come across as a passive-aggresive response. I hope this reply clarifies my point:

I'm not saying your submission is misplaced, because there sure is a ton of undiscussable topics for many users. I think, like you, that there are many posts or threads where honest discussion is impossible so many users don't even attempt it. I can certainly tell when my replies are just wasted effort when engaging with some people so I won't make that reply.

Common trust is what we must share in order to have good discussions, and it is missing on a grand scale here. It is not gone completely, but it is getting more difficult to find.

When I do engage in discussion, or debate, I try to do it with common decency and a request for reciprocity. It's not always that way, but the best conspiracy minded discussions will follow this guideline. As always, this is just my opinion.

No one wins an argument or changes another's mind with indecency, so I figure what's the point in engaging with those tactics?

Seek out those that operate with an open-mind and common decency, ignore the rest when you can. This isn't a subreddit for the faint of heart or sensitive minded. There IS a lot of shit to sift, but I've always felt good when I find the hidden gems.

When you get downvoted for citing a bunch of massive, proven conspiracies, something must be up.

If we are being targeted, it means we are doing something right. Keep spreading proven conspiracies. There is nothing they can do except downvote and try to change the subject.

I’m gonna go ahead and buy 1,000,000 dollars worth of paper, if you fire the salesman who treated me so terribly.

How do you become a paid shill? I could do with some cash

I know some guys. Look for a msg in your inbox.

hey I want in! I'll shill about for some cash.

Still waiting :(

How do you become a paid shill?

Just disagree with somebody on this sub. You are then a confirmed 'paid shill'.

Yep. Or on far right subs. I disagree with the leftist politics sub and they stop to hear my opinion.

Really? Which leftist subs listen to opposing opinions?

I suspect it's rather more sophisticated than that. You have a botnet that monitors /new and compares it to a list. If it's not on the list they want today, it's automatically given a certain number of downvotes. If it contains certain keywords, it's downvoted harder. If it's on their list of topics they want to work on, it is upvoted and then given a bunch of comments. The shill accounts all upvote each other. They have a certain narrative to present. Anything that goes against it is both manually downvoted, and presented to a botnet to mass-downvote. A few uneducated people will write actual comments that fit with the narrative, and they are mass-upvoted, so this encourages them to do that more because of the endorphin release. They are training people to fit the mass narrative and only comment things that the botnet wants to hear.

Effective. Logical. Excellent analysis. Reasonable. Likely. Probable, in fact. Necessary even from certain points of view. Well done /u/bananapeel

Yeah, this is how I would have set it up.

Also there's like 10 of these posts a week.

'Why isn't this sub what I want it to be'

To be fair it happens in every sub

It's happens in mob rule, karma-whoring, dying "social media" like reddit. Sure it's popular, but it's not "the same" -- the hive mind and it's voracious appetite for conformity stalks reddit like the men in black. Something new will rise on the blockchain. I'm not sure the current iterations of blockchain will fair, but something will stick. And reddit, facebook, twitter will all become the "AOL" of the internet.

Nah. We'll always just be twats arguing on the internet, no one listening to each other.

R/politics discovered this sub after msm introduced them to the Russian conspiracy. They are upset that this whole sub is not anti-trump/russia.

Hey look a shill

And actually was spilling bits of the truth, so they moved in to make us all seem crazy.

I thought you guys were crazy way before the 2016 election. However, you guys are in overdrive, as of late.

Yeah you're right, r/politics really has gone into overdrive.

And then the r/uncensorednews crowd showed up and things got super racist for a bit. Idk if anyone remembers a few months ago when there was a lot of racism/antisemitism on here fucking things up.

I actually don't remember that and I usually check in here daily.

Yep it was mostly in the comments. Mods did a good job handling and the community downvoted all of it to shit. Fortunately it disappeared but I remember a few discussions of it being an attempt to make the community look bad.

So it was people from r/uncensorednews or people who wanted to discredit this sub?

It happened around the time r/uncensorednews had a few xposts from here get popular over there. I suppose I can't say for certain that it was because of them, however the mentalities seemed to line up considering their history of strong antisemitism and racism.

Not sure if you read OPs comment or not

Sorry that I think the Trump Russia a good conspiracy. Government conspiracies are always juicy.

it's been dead for almost 2 years. dying in the months leading up to the election. now it's an empty shell, where real thinkers are the minority and stupid spambots, "shills", and douchebags from elsewhere come over to push their own beliefs.

this type of post happens from time to time, as well as the ol' "i miss the ufo stuff!!1!111!" and that's all you'll get for the month :(

it's been dead for almost 2 years.

So by remaining here and complaining, you are 'flogging a dead horse'?

So where do you go? You can pm me if you like

I joined a few years ago for the “ufo stuff”. Have never seen the ufo stuff, only politics :(

It's because there's an ongoing political conspiracy unfolding daily. It may seep through an entire political party, and that party is transparently deploying conspiracy theories to attempt to discredit the investigation.

You're witnessing an ongoing conspiracy. In a way, you're in the conspiracy. How people on this board aren't rock hard 24/7 over it is totally beyond me. Maybe people somehow prefer the conspiracy theories that have zero evidence to support them?

The overall sentiment in this thread seems to be "there's an overwhelming majority of people here that seem to want me to believe in a political conspiracy!"

All while actively ignoring the fact that the administration they support is currently involved in the biggest conspiracy against the United States in modern times. The fucking campaign manager has literally been indicted for conspiracy against the United States!! LOL

But talk about that on a conspiracy forum and you're the shill.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs

In case you missed it

It doesn't help that /r/politics openly invites users to come here and support their partisan view.

Don't forget the warped and partisan nutjobs at T_D who take control of this sub at times.

See the difference? He called the folks from r/politics "users." What did you call the folks from the_donald?

You are the problem.

I agree with you about the decorum of the user you are responding to, but, the current top 4 stories on /r/politics are:

McConnell owes the country a fuller explanation on Russian meddling -The Washington Post

Doug Jones says arming teachers is “the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard” - Rare.us

Mueller Unveils New Charges in Russia Probe - Bloomberg

While the top 3 stories at T_D are:

HAHAHAH, no - a picture mocking students at Parkland

I think you guys touched a nerve - a picture of students from parkland with text mocking them

Gun control day by day - a meme about gun control

Do you see the difference?

Dude, everything on /r/politics is pushed with hard cash. Hell everything on reddit is trash pushed with cash anymore. This is a propaganda machine.

I don't play on the internet like I used to, and this website is pushing me away more every day. You could post a picture of a rock and people would argue, bitch, complain, and twist it into some shit that pretty much reflects what they show on the national news every day.

"They" have established a cultural dialogue, and here we are, like good sheep, staying in line and doing as we're told. Nothing has changed and nothing ever will change until the demise of humanity.

Not really. Both of them are basically partisan versions of r/conspiracy right now repping their theories.

The major difference is that r/politics wants to appear very intelligent, because this need to be seen as smart is a huge draw for unintelligent people.

However, r/the_donald uses humor and memes to draw in people. Because t_d doesn't claim to speak for all of politics but only one side it is much more effective.

In the end J don't frequent either of them because they're both blatant propaganda, BUT only one of them is at least doing propaganda correctly in 2018 and that is the_donald because they are at least entertaining.

Like seriously r/politics is still talking about Russia? Talk about cringeworthy. Even my super liberal friends don't say shit about Russia anymore.

I absolutely agree that both are bias, but if you're telling me you really can't see a categorical difference in what is being presented I honestly can't take you seriously.

Lol indictments handed down. Seriously do you know what our CIA does? Have you read Chomsky? Do you even have a cursory understanding of global politics and America's role in regime change and meddling in elections.

Russia lol'd at those indictments too.

What a breath of fresh air! Thank you.

r/politics is suppose to be about politics in general. r/the_donald like the poster above said, is a fan page. If anything the blatant bias in r/politics is what you should be aghast about.

Just curious, how does a site like reddit avoid bias? Do people need to get together and make sure everyone upvotes everything? This site is literally designed to be biased.

I don't know. I don't know what the original idea was, but I don't think they intended for this shit to happen. I don't necessarily believe bots and shills were an actual things when Reddit was invented. Although I could be wrong about that and if I am so be it.

I get certain subs are nothing more than fanboy pages and I'm okay with that. I know what I'm getting when I click the sub. I just feel like something like r/politics should be a little more balanced. I don't know how you do that. I don't think it's only shills and bots. I do think the bulk of users on Reddit in general are younger and probably lean more left. So I can wrap my head around that a little bit. I just think it's a disturbing trend where only one side's views are promoted and the other sides points are down voted and hidden.

Like I'm a grown ass woman, internet points aren't something I care about, but I don't think I've ever had the guts to object to something being said over there. I believe it would be thoroughly exhausting and somewhat disheartening to have to defend my opinions like I would be forced to do if I were to comment. I'm not saying I shouldn't have to defend my stance. I think that shit is important. Just that I've seen the barrage that takes place and even in a sub like this, where most cats are fairly open minded, it's been difficult when I've said something that may trigger some with a particular leaning. I just hate it that we can't have like legit discussions about stuff these days. And again, I don't believe everyone is a shill. I think there some who are just incredibly loyal to their party. I think there are a few who are just ignorant of facts. And I believe that there are plenty who are just as aware as I am regarding a topic and we really do just come to two different takes. Those are the cats I long to talk to. Unfortunately it's becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish between who is who and what their motives are. There are in fact people spreading disinfo in this very sub. Ugh. Maybe you won't get what I'm saying. If you know of a site we're legit political discussions can take place without one side railing on someone with a dissenting opinion let me know. I'd love to be able to discuss shit in a place that wasn't an echo chamber.

I get what your saying, and agree. You'll be hard pressed to find a place online. Best bet would be to seek out discussions with individuals, not large groups.

It is kind of depressing seeing what online discussions have devolved into, and trying to seek out what's real and what's "shill/bots" pretty much makes everyone cynical as fuck. I guess welcome to the new internet? Everything is real or everything is fake, it all just depends on what sub your on.

I appreciate your words and I have been fortunate enough to have run into a couple of cats on here that had a different take than I and we've been able to have legit discussions. So I think your absolutely right about seeking discussions with individuals rather than the community at large. Welcome to the new internet indeed! Haha. But yeah, I guess we just gotta weed through the muck. I do wish everyone was aware of these tactics, but I am and I guess it's somewhat my responsibility to educate those around me that not everything we see on the internet is how it appears. Again, I realize not everyone is a shill or are trying to shut down conversation, your a perfect example of that. Thanks!

Another version of class warfare isn't it?

As an Australian, it is hard to comprehend how a patriotic American can possibly ignore the fact that there are now indictments against 13 Russian nationals and three Russian groups - all linked to the Kremlin - for interfering in your elections.

How can you discount this fact?

Did you read what I just said? If meddling in foreign elections was a degree in school USA would own a Doctorate.

so you're not bothered about Russia meddling in your elections?

If we are to find this "meddling" so offensive shouldn't we at least know that that is? So far it's been tweets, memes and ads on Facebook. Are you telling me I should be irate about hashtags or retweets on twitter? I personally don't see it as significant, definitely not significant for all the manufactured outrage I see every day. There are people who do horrible horrible things regularly in the world that aren't discussed yet if I'm not calling for action against Russia for some stupid meaningless shit on social media I'm a Russian stooge. I mean give me a break. The US has most likely and probably still is "meddling" in your Australian elections. https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/12/05/us-meddling-in-australian-politics/

Surely the power and influence of tweets, memes and ads on facebook is undeniable at this point?

That tells more of a problem with America than anything. If people are being persuaded by stupid shit on social media I don't really blame that on the Russians. Also if they are that easily swayed by memes on facebook think of how easy it would be to totally manipulate someone with the 24/7 propaganda that airs on television. Hell you can even pick your flavor depending on how you want stories to be interpreted for you.

If I were you I would be more concerned with the message than the medium. It doesn't matter whether you consider their techniques and strategies stupid or not - the fact is that a foreign power sucessfully swayed your elections.

the fact is that a foreign power sucessfully swayed your elections.

Actually that is not a fact nor has it been quantified in any way shape or form. That is a conclusion you arrived at, which is fine. Just don't force your conclusions on me as if they are fact in any way because they aren't. So don't tell me what you think I should be concerned about based on "facts" that are just ideas in your head. That would be silly of me.

The 13 indictments your own country has issued suggest that I'm not the only person that has come to that conclusion. Your wilful ignorance is irrational.

Willful ignorance of 13 people on using facebook and twitter to sway a whole election with some memes and retweets... Right.

I'd say it's more along the lines of knowing what bullshit looks, smells, and tastes like and when there is a repeated effort to feed it to me I spit it the fuck out whereas you swallowed whole without even chewing.

I'm happy to read essays sourced from whatever ridiculous partisan hole of the internet you frequent, but I draw the line at watching youtube videos, sorry.

Don't apologize to me. You aren't doing anyone but yourself a disservice. I gather information from all sources, consider the facts, and form my own conclusions so unfortunately I don't have a favorite source to share with you. I honestly just first saw this video shortly before engaging in discussion with you and it just so happens to be a great summary of the point I was making.

bothered? no, he's entertained! He enjoys being pandered and pampered too by foreign powers who are campaigning on sowing the seeds of kek flame wars.

But the only reason it's probably funny to him is because he has been targeted as a useful-trend following-social media pawn. He gets to giggle and play grab ass with his Meme team.

He's not threatened or concerned about outside Russian influence because they are not a threat to him personally. He has nothing they want outside of his memetic allegiance, and he gladly works for the good boy points they had back and fourth to each other.

I don't think you really get how unliked Clinton is here. The propaganda with got hit with from Russian cats is chump change to the full blown out propaganda attack we've been under from cats right here in the US. Trust that.

It's just a meaningless thing to say. Personally, I heard a rumor that Hillary was a reeeeeallly shitty candidate.

what's a meaningless thing to say?

Russia "meddled" lol. Those damn meddlers! For real though read Noam Chomsky and then we can talk about "meddling".

"meddling" was your word. I used the word "interfering", but should have said "influencing". If you don't have a problem with Russia interfering with or influencing your elections, I suggest you re-examine your priorities, because it is the opposite of meaningless.

If Russia helped keep Hillary out of office, then I wish to send them my thanks. How's that?

That's... irrelevant, to say the least.

You're not the first person to read or listen to Chomsky.

So your takeaway from Chomsky was, "meddling happens, it's real, who cares, and it's meaningless to be bothered by it."?

We do far worse so who are we to cry when our own tactics are used against us. How's that?

Ok, so your conclusion is that it did happen, Russia was an active influence and not only should should bend over and take it, it's meaningless to even call them out on it, or even discuss or question their reasons or intentions for doing so?

How enlightened

Did they manipulate the vote count? If no stfu. What is it that you think they did?

why can't I talk about the propaganda media campaign coming out of Russia? Why do I need to stfu about it?

Apparently they have found evidence that Russia was in the voting systems in a few states. I don't know if they manipulate the vote count at this point. Nothing like that has been suggested, but maybe they didn't need to when it came election night.

lol ok.

lol ok what? You haven't said anything this entire time

Do you know how many democratically elected leaders we have helped overthrow in the last 50 years? Through violence? And you're crying about a media propaganda campaign? Fuck out of here man.

you don't need to give a shit about it. Go too sleep, I'm not shutting the fuck up about it.

Through violence?

You mean tactics like orchestrating two different counter protest groups to show up on the same day to the same event and show down face to face?

Right the Russians with no help from anyone else, not the media, not the groups themselves, they did all that. Ok.

I didn't say anything about them doing it on their own. But I assume you also don't care about the media or the groups themselves too right? Meaningless to even talk about them as well.

Are you ever going to say anything? Or just continue to talk in whateabout platitudes? Yeah, ok, do that, right, baby

Communists (Russia) have been manipulating leftist minds in the United States since the 1950s through ideological subversion. This is nothing new.

So you agree, they are trying to manipulate the US population. But you also like it apparently

Go look at their front pages and tell me which is appropriate for which. T_D is currently attacking child victims of a school shooting. I'd call that being a warped nutjob.

And r/politics is a fake news aggregator.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7yzghh/west_point_posthumously_admits_jrotc_hero_peter/

Go look at their front pages and tell me which is appropriate for which.

Ok...

top post at the time of posting.

Top comment...

Peter Wang was a very brave man. A hero in every sense of the word and an example for all Americans.

T_D is currently attacking child victims of a school shooting. I'd call that being a warped nutjob.

Didn’t have to look far really....

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Sorry, but those people are mostly awful. Why would one who carries water for the current POTUS be posting in a conspiracy forum anyways? Perhaps to control the narrative?

Downright deplorable, right I got it.

Dude, they ban anyone over there for criticizing the president. Don't you get that? That's what we here are supposed to be against. They flood this sub to control the narrative of their Dear Leader and mock anyone who goes against their talking points. Tell me of another popular sub that does this. I'll wait.

it is a fan page the page might deserve some criticism for stuff that happens on there but I have never understood that one

Fan Page is putting it lightly. I would say it's more of an extension of Trump's cult of personality.

TD fucking set off bots and has been brigading here since late 2015. Anyone to the left of Atwater was put on bot lists and would go to -30 within ten minutes. The would come to gish gallops and flooding by comment bots. Then you get the nast PMs. So finally I left.

And the last few months it seems the bots got turned off in a lot places. Especially here.

They take a hard line to protect against shills, who are a cancer.

I never really understood this argument. It's explicitly a pro-Trump sub. They tell you right in the rules you will be banned if you say otherwise. I don't post there but at least they are straightforward about it. Now /r/politics, which is supposed to be for relatively neutral discussion of politics in general is often compared to T_D as the polar opposite when they shouldn't even be in the same category. All that sees the light of day there is Anti-Trump pieces, many without substance. They don't outright ban you but they have the votes so strongly manipulated you can't effectively participate if your views don't align with the prescribed narrative. Reddit's 10 minute penalty echo chamber rule is very discouraging.

Whataboutism

Sorry, that's not whataboutism.

Sorry, it is.

Test.

LOL I got banned for this post without warning. Never change your method of control and narrative, mods of /r/conspiracy hahahahaha

This sub really started to nose dive around the DNC leaks, Seth Rich, and most importantly.... The podesta emails in regards to 'pizzagate'

Ding ding ding!

Its almost like powerful people were threatened by some of the things being discussed here, so they decided to try to shut us up.

Yup! I remember seeing a google trend for the term "fake news," and it actually started right after the Podesta emails were being released, when people were talking about Spirit Cooking, and I'm not sure if we had stumbled on Pizzagate yet. Many people think Trump was the first to start using it, but he only co-opted it.

The phrase hit newspapers the day after /r/pizzagate got shut down

Who can we thank for turning "fake news" from meaning "alternative news sources" to the opposite, the mainstream media?

Google started the "fake news" campaign. They funded the non-profit site First Draft that first used the term in it's modern context. Eric Schmidt was the head of Alphabet Company at the time, the parent company of Google. Schmidt devoted himself to the Clinton campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQcCIzjz9_s

Or, you know, conspiratards shot up a pizza place and everyone else realized that their games were a real physical threat to others and important enough to address. Maybe that explains why people are bothering to engage with these conspiracy theories.

conspiratards shot up a pizza place

lmao. That was staged as fuck, and the fact that you are so naive that you don't realize it is hilarious.

Ironic.

Not really an appropriate use of the word.

It is though.

Only if you don't understand what "naive" means. Which you clearly don't. Pretty sad, man.

Lol

Didn't the person who shot inside the pizza place admit that the reason he went there was to investigate pizzagate?

My view is the anti-Hilary obsession is what caused this sub to nose dive.

That is how I read the OPs post (may be wrong). Posting anything that wasn't anti DNC or anti-Hilary results in being called a shill or sheep.

I wasn't here for all of that. Damn it. But I know the response those topics receive when discussed. Thy doth protest too much.

Don’t flatter yourself. No one is threatened by the dumbest conspiracy theory in the past 20 years. You just out yourself as a pro government tool.

Nah I think you’re wrong, they clearly are threatened. Their hysterical response is proof of that. Of course, maybe it’s all just a big cohencidence that the shill infestation went into full swing right then!

This sub has become a sub of r/the_donald.

It's true man. All the front page of this sub is anti-obama and hillary shit and anything against the GOP, Trump, russia investigation all gets downvoted. anything that goes against thier views gets downvoted. I'm not a liberal, and I stand firmly on Hillary fucken kills people, but if i say anything bad about trump, BAM downvotes. Go back to T_D if you want to be a close minded idiot.

Funny thing is I like Trump (mostly) and voted for him.

But I HATE seeing the political stuff here. They aren't conspiracies.

It's like reading the front page of Fox News.

I'm not a fan of basically any politician, but I can agree with you on a genuine hatred for politics destroying a conspiracy sub.

I love the political stuff the most in conspiracies (along with the food and drug conspiracies) but this sub should absolutely have tags to get rid of the politics. It's just a tool and I use it on a lot of my subs.

did you delete your comment or did someone else?

Hmm. I wonder how your comment and the guy above you is upvoted if this sub is "basically T_D." I see this time and again, over and over. Claims like this are immediately debunked by the number of upvotes, and the users don't seem to understand the contradiction.

I might be literally the only liberal in this entire sub who admits that this sub is not a Trump cirlcejerk. In most threads, the people getting upvoted in the comments are the ones speaking out against trump. The people getting upvoted are the ones saying "This sub is so controlled by Trump supporters." Then how do those comments get upvoted? They usually respond by claiming it's because the thread made it to /r/all, but we see anti Trump comments at the top of threads that aren't even the top post in this sub.

Then we can talk about anti-Trump submissions. These do really well in this sub, which I will prove below. Guess what the excuse is? people claim the submissions were upvoted so high because they were on /r/all. Oh really? How did the post make it to /r/all in the first place if this sub is "controlled by Trump supporters?"

There are a lot more than this, but this is what I could dig up from a quick search. Notice you never see anyone claim "this sub is a T_D circlejerk" in any of the anti-Trump threads. They just pretend these threads don't exist and continue with the anti-/r/conspiracy propaganda, which is usually heavily upvoted in here for some reason. A lot of people in here hate this sub.

Pay close attention to the upvote percentages.

"Drain that Swamp: Trump's Interior Chief's Hometown Friends Receive $300 Million Contract to Restore PR Power Lines - Company Only Has 2 Employees" 5,340 points, 86 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/78ffzd/drain_that_swamp_trumps_interior_chiefs_hometown/

"In 2004 Donald Trump accepted $160 million from George Soros" 3,754 points, 80 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6xjask/in_2004_donald_trump_accepted_160_million_from/

If you check the comments of supposedly "pro-Trump" posts, anti-Trump comments reign supreme. There's nothing really wrong with that, but the people claiming this sub is one giant pro-Trump conspiracy are deluding themselves. Some people try to claim all of this is explained because this or that post hit /r/all, but that's complete bullshit. Posts that don't hit /r/all are also very anti-Trump in the comments. Anti-Trump posts also couldn't hit /r/all in the first place if they weren't heavily upvoted in this sub before they reached /r/all.

Anti Jeff Sessions post, 26,000 points, 79 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6awhsy/im_fucking_tired_of_the_fucking_war_on_drugs_jeff/

"WikiLeaks document showing that saudi arabia funded ISIS. How can trump supporters just stand by and let donald trump sign a 100 billion dollar arms deal with a country that is funding terrorism?" 3,900 points, 90 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6f4uu1/wikileaks_document_showing_that_saudi_arabia/

"Michael Flynn resigns: Trump's national security adviser quits over Russia links" 3,800 points, 84 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5txzbc/michael_flynn_resigns_trumps_national_security/

2,500 points, 85 percent upvoted: "House Republicans with support form Trump passes sweeping legislation to roll back banking rules on globalist bankers who caused the great recession" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6g7jcf/house_republicans_with_support_form_trump_passes/

"Behind Fox News' Baseless Seth Rich Story: The Untold Tale" 2,300 points, 72 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6qvylt/behind_fox_news_baseless_seth_rich_story_the/

6,300 points, 84 percent upvoted, gilded: "Dear The_Donald: Why you censoring weed posts?" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5w1ygs/dear_the_donald_why_you_censoring_weed_posts/

"Donald Trump's Muslim ban excludes the countries linked to his business empire - AND the countries of origin of the 9/11 terrorists. And not a WORD of this on /r/conspiracy?" 1,500 points, 82 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5qpbjv/donald_trumps_muslim_ban_excludes_the_countries/

"Donald Trump has added his FIFTH Goldman Sachs crony to his staff" 1,400 points, 87 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ntxkf/donald_trump_has_added_his_fifth_goldman_sachs/

"Donald Trump supposedly told House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) he supports cutting Social Security but will not admit it publicly because it would hurt his election chances. He openly says he will lie to the people about it because he knows that the people are against it." 1,250 points, 75 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4lk9xd/donald_trump_supposedly_told_house_speaker_paul/

"Dear T_D readers, Please read this post. I am ready for your downvotes. If you are a trump supporter who also visits this sub, here is a message for you. The_Donald is one of the most heavily censored subs on reddit. Try posting anything that questions the supremacy of Donald Trump. Your post will get removed and you will be banned." 1,200 points, 84 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6chgbe/dear_t_d_readers_please_read_this_post_i_am_ready/

Another one at 2,800, 94 percent upvoted, article about Trump/republican tax plans: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/72k3fe/a_handful_of_ultrarich_dynastic_families_are/

"Trump told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns" 640 points https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6ol9av/trump_told_aides_he_was_especially_disturbed/

"Leaked emails show WikiLeaks and Trump Jr. Conversing about possible deals between them" 9000 points with gold, 77 percent upvoted. https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7cqh4t/leaked_emails_show_wikileaks_and_trump_jr/

There are also a lot of posts that say "Fuck both sides." Examples:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5xt35u/its_really_time_to_wake_the_fuck_up_hillary/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6t8bkd/fuck_the_us_government_for_a_million_reasons_fuck/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/54ccuo/suggestion_stop_upvoting_trump_vs_clinton_stuff/

To the people who claim anti-Trump comments can be explained because some threads in this sub make it to /r/all, I'll show you a thread that is below a 1000 with anti-Trump comments. In fact, many of the posts above never made it to /r/all, but to be conservative, I'll keep the threshold under a 1000 to guarantee that /r/conspiracy regulars are the ones making and upvoting these comments.

Check out the top comment on this 755 upvote anti-Trump post: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/76qr7j/just_a_friendly_reminder_that_trumps_labor/

"Sorry, wrong party. Won't get traction. Change the name trump to Hillary to get the conspiracy community to take notice"

Also just pay more attention to the upvotes/downvotes in /r/conspiracy threads from now on. Pay attention to that and the propaganda just doesn't make any sense anymore.

yea right. sure there are blind, biased trump fangirls here, but anything bad about clintons or obama and the threads get filled with CTR types. accounts that never post in r/conspiracy unless it is something david brock has stake in

Hmm. I wonder how his comment is upvoted if this sub is "basically T_D." I see this time and again, over and over. Claims like this are immediately debunked by the number of upvotes, and the users don't seem to understand the contradiction.

I might be literally the only liberal in this entire sub who admits that this sub is not a Trump cirlcejerk. In most threads, the people getting upvoted in the comments are the ones speaking out against trump. The people getting upvoted are the ones saying "This sub is so controlled by Trump supporters." Then how do those comments get upvoted? They usually respond by claiming it's because the thread made it to /r/all, but we see anti Trump comments at the top of threads that aren't even the top post in this sub.

Then we can talk about anti-Trump submissions. These do really well in this sub, which I will prove below. Guess what the excuse is? people claim the submissions were upvoted so high because they were on /r/all. Oh really? How did the post make it to /r/all in the first place if this sub is "controlled by Trump supporters?"

There are a lot more than this, but this is what I could dig up from a quick search. Notice you never see anyone claim "this sub is a T_D circlejerk" in any of the anti-Trump threads. They just pretend these threads don't exist and continue with the anti-/r/conspiracy propaganda, which is usually heavily upvoted in here for some reason. A lot of people in here hate this sub.

Pay close attention to the upvote percentages.

"Drain that Swamp: Trump's Interior Chief's Hometown Friends Receive $300 Million Contract to Restore PR Power Lines - Company Only Has 2 Employees" 5,340 points, 86 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/78ffzd/drain_that_swamp_trumps_interior_chiefs_hometown/

"In 2004 Donald Trump accepted $160 million from George Soros" 3,754 points, 80 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6xjask/in_2004_donald_trump_accepted_160_million_from/

If you check the comments of supposedly "pro-Trump" posts, anti-Trump comments reign supreme. There's nothing really wrong with that, but the people claiming this sub is one giant pro-Trump conspiracy are deluding themselves. Some people try to claim all of this is explained because this or that post hit /r/all, but that's complete bullshit. Posts that don't hit /r/all are also very anti-Trump in the comments. Anti-Trump posts also couldn't hit /r/all in the first place if they weren't heavily upvoted in this sub before they reached /r/all.

Anti Jeff Sessions post, 26,000 points, 79 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6awhsy/im_fucking_tired_of_the_fucking_war_on_drugs_jeff/

"WikiLeaks document showing that saudi arabia funded ISIS. How can trump supporters just stand by and let donald trump sign a 100 billion dollar arms deal with a country that is funding terrorism?" 3,900 points, 90 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6f4uu1/wikileaks_document_showing_that_saudi_arabia/

"Michael Flynn resigns: Trump's national security adviser quits over Russia links" 3,800 points, 84 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5txzbc/michael_flynn_resigns_trumps_national_security/

2,500 points, 85 percent upvoted: "House Republicans with support form Trump passes sweeping legislation to roll back banking rules on globalist bankers who caused the great recession" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6g7jcf/house_republicans_with_support_form_trump_passes/

"Behind Fox News' Baseless Seth Rich Story: The Untold Tale" 2,300 points, 72 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6qvylt/behind_fox_news_baseless_seth_rich_story_the/

6,300 points, 84 percent upvoted, gilded: "Dear The_Donald: Why you censoring weed posts?" https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5w1ygs/dear_the_donald_why_you_censoring_weed_posts/

"Donald Trump's Muslim ban excludes the countries linked to his business empire - AND the countries of origin of the 9/11 terrorists. And not a WORD of this on /r/conspiracy?" 1,500 points, 82 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5qpbjv/donald_trumps_muslim_ban_excludes_the_countries/

"Donald Trump has added his FIFTH Goldman Sachs crony to his staff" 1,400 points, 87 percent upvoted https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ntxkf/donald_trump_has_added_his_fifth_goldman_sachs/

"Donald Trump supposedly told House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) he supports cutting Social Security but will not admit it publicly because it would hurt his election chances. He openly says he will lie to the people about it because he knows that the people are against it." 1,250 points, 75 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4lk9xd/donald_trump_supposedly_told_house_speaker_paul/

"Dear T_D readers, Please read this post. I am ready for your downvotes. If you are a trump supporter who also visits this sub, here is a message for you. The_Donald is one of the most heavily censored subs on reddit. Try posting anything that questions the supremacy of Donald Trump. Your post will get removed and you will be banned." 1,200 points, 84 percent upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6chgbe/dear_t_d_readers_please_read_this_post_i_am_ready/

Another one at 2,800, 94 percent upvoted, article about Trump/republican tax plans: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/72k3fe/a_handful_of_ultrarich_dynastic_families_are/

"Trump told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns" 640 points https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6ol9av/trump_told_aides_he_was_especially_disturbed/

"Leaked emails show WikiLeaks and Trump Jr. Conversing about possible deals between them" 9000 points with gold, 77 percent upvoted. https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7cqh4t/leaked_emails_show_wikileaks_and_trump_jr/

There are also a lot of posts that say "Fuck both sides." Examples:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5xt35u/its_really_time_to_wake_the_fuck_up_hillary/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6t8bkd/fuck_the_us_government_for_a_million_reasons_fuck/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/54ccuo/suggestion_stop_upvoting_trump_vs_clinton_stuff/

To the people who claim anti-Trump comments can be explained because some threads in this sub make it to /r/all, I'll show you a thread that is below a 1000 with anti-Trump comments. In fact, many of the posts above never made it to /r/all, but to be conservative, I'll keep the threshold under a 1000 to guarantee that /r/conspiracy regulars are the ones making and upvoting these comments.

Check out the top comment on this 755 upvote anti-Trump post: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/76qr7j/just_a_friendly_reminder_that_trumps_labor/

"Sorry, wrong party. Won't get traction. Change the name trump to Hillary to get the conspiracy community to take notice"

Also just pay more attention to the upvotes/downvotes in /r/conspiracy threads from now on. Pay attention to that and the propaganda just doesn't make any sense anymore.

Don't expect a reply. The stupid Donald 2.0 shit is most forced, insipid crap on this sub.

My favorite part is how most of the people claiming this actually have tons of highly-upvoted anti-trump comments in their history.

Damn, really nice post. Its a shame its buried way down here.

You've linked a lot of threads from over a long period of time to prove your point, but the threads you've linked don't compare to the sheer volume of threads that are created every single day which have an obvious conservative bias.

I'm starting to find it obvious that the whole "calm before the storm" conspiracy theory is true. Patriots have secretly planned to avenge the murder of JFK by exposing and dismantling the cabal which ordered his assassination. This international criminal organization is the architect for what we now call the Deep State. The treasonous criminals involved know that they could legitimately face military tribunals and execution, and their propaganda efforts are becoming increasingly desperate in response.

We have hundreds of people here daily talking about how Russian collusion would be the biggest conspiracy EVER, which is laughable to anyone who knows anything about the history of CIA meddling in foreign elections, and yet these people are often upvoted to the stratosphere. Meanwhile, the counter-coup conspiracy theory is downvoted to oblivion and/or laughed at even though it ties into the core conspiracy theory that has been discussed here since the subreddit began.

Yeah, it's just one sub doing all of this

Certainly couldn't be all the subs that have taken over /r/all with brigading and hotting, such as /r/politics, /r/EnoughTrumpSpam, /r/MarchAgainstTrump, /r/impeach_Trump, /r/regrettingTrump, /r/politicalhumor, /r/political_revolution, /r/LateStageCapitalism, /r/impeachTrump, /r/Trumpgret, /r/shitThe_DonaldSays, /r/fuckthealtright, /r/taxmarch, /r/TopMindsofReddit, /r/drumpf, /r/the_shulz, /r/Trumpnicknames, /r/againsthatesubreddits (ironic), /r/the_cheeto, /r/TheDuped, /r/antiTrumpalliance, /r/tinyhandsinc /r/NeverTrump, /r/IndivisibleGuide, /r/BannedfromThe_Donald /r/justicedemocrats, /r/unpresidented, /r/Marchforscience, /r/TrumpforPrison, /r/rightwingwatch, /r/TinyTrumps, /r/hillaryclinton, /r/socialism, /r/MiloForPrison, /r/EnoughRightSpam, /r/the_NewDonald/, /r/ShitRConservativesays, /r/WTFAmerica, /r/EnoughAltRightSpam, /r/EnoughGOPSpam, /r/donaldtrumpsucks /r/liesTrumptoldus, /r/Political_Tweets, /r/TrumpAdviceAnimals /r/ourpresident, /r/MarchAgainstDonald, /r/trumpcriticizestrump, /r/RussiaLago, /r/dumptrump, /r/bluemidterm2018, /r/centerleftpolitics, /r/thedonald, /r/The_Mueller, /r/The_Dotard, /r/NewPatriotism, /r/Keep_Track, /r/esist, etc

r/copypasta

the_donalders have largely fucked off to those Q anon subs for their daily doses of pizzagate and such, r/conspiracy is much improved lately.

More like the ban hammer has fallen.

How Reddit Was Destroyed

Great post you shared. Just "who" owns Reddit [through Advance Publications]??

Mandatory reading:

1. First 12 pages of the preface ofThe Culture of Critique by Macdonald.

2. The Protocols of Zion

Someone tried to start r/norednoblueconspiracy but it hasn't really grown. I support it and I love the idea of keep your personal politics out of it. I wish that sub would grow.

Keep dropping the sub name in random comments like you just did and It might grow. :) I’ll go sub.

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I'll give it a shot! I subbed to all of the alternative conspiracy subs that popped up since the election, but none have really taken hold.

r/exposingconspiracy

This is more like it

Just checked that sub out and subscribed! Once people realize politics are just a show then maybe we can all come back here but in the meantime...see you over there (no really I’ll see you over there, there’s like 20 people) :)

It's kind of hard to "leave your politics out of it" when WikiLeaks demonstrated the Democrat Party rigged their primary process, and then the law enforcement apparatus of a Democrat president's administration was improperly used to spy on a Democrat's opponent.

Sorry; can't "leave my politics out of" that.

Perhaps your ire should be directed at the ones who don't care about that rather fucking large conspiracy, or who throw up a bunch of bullshit to try to obfuscate it.

(Down-vote me, dishonest Democrats. Like I give a shit.)

I agree with you on this, but if I started talking shit about trump straight up taking bribe money out in the open, would you down vote me to shit because it disagrees with your interests? It's okay to point out government lies and shady shit, it's not okay to purposely talk shit to someone who disagrees with your personal shit, not here anyways IMO. If you wanna go start down vote wars, go talk shit in r/politics. Easiest place to offend a liberal haha.

The election happened to it.

Absolutely! I'm tired of the division between people. I miss the days when we trusted no one and had our own unique ideas and beliefs.. I miss the days when we investigated topics and came to our own conclusions. Nowadays i think a lot of people are blindly following one 'side' or the other and it's terrifying.

Hope we can get back to those days, but just like pre 9/11 days, I fear they're long gone

Also reddit's banning of various subreddits (for moral objections towards them) displaced small communities who migrated to other subs more willing to accept outsiders.

Yurrrrp

Since we're basically just using this post to complain, as a long time lurker of /r/conspiracy, I'm upset that no one here sees to seriously consider Trump/Russia as a conspiracy worthy of discussion. Like, if true, this would be one of the biggest conspiracies to have ever existed! How is that not absolute conspiracy nerd cat nip for anyone else!?

I'll fully admit my passion for this sub ebbs and flows, I'll be active for days in a row and then completely forget it exists for months. Back when the investigation started, I popped in here hoping to see some lively discussion and back and forth and there was fucking nothing. It took me awhile before I found some specific subs for the Russia investigation, but frankly those are boring as fuck because there's very little dissent. I want to hear from both sides! Even if it makes me angry! That's why I still visit The Drudge Report almost every day, despite my own personal political affiliations.

Why can't we live up to what many of us claim to want; to have semi-serious discussions about popular theories? Why aren't there like, weekly mega-threads on the top pop-conspiracies of the moment, with actual moderation to keep things on topic?

Have a pizzagate thread where I can read people's crazy 4chan posts and be devil's advocate of how a sentence in an email might really just be talking about getting some pizza without us calling each other shills. Have a Russiagate thread where you can point out the reasons I should be skeptical of the sourcing of a new "bombshell" report.

Instead, we settle for bot spamming the latest left/right flame up while mods act like dicks and throw any thread that isn't going the way they want into "contest mode" to stifle discussion. I wish there was some way to do a "consitutional convention" style re-boot of a sub. This place could be so much better if we started actually enforcing expectations on each other and cut out all of the hyper-partisan shit (shit of which I am guilty of myself).

Ironic that this sub is the biggest supporter of the government narrative. Y’all must be dumb as fuck, thinking you’re “woke” but really you’re just gulping down whatever the establishment force feeds you.

I'm upset that no one here seems to seriously consider Trump/Russia as a conspiracy worthy of discussion.

It's almost hard to discuss because most of the major points aren't really being contended. Does anybody think Russia didn't try to leverage social media to sway voters?

I mean, why wouldn't they? It's hard to believe that Russia was like, "Hmmmmm I bet we could -- for a pittance -- influence the U.S. election in favor of a candidate that promises to be friendly to Russia and will sow the most internal discord in the U.S.... but let's not do that."

I think the MSM approach of painting everything Trump does as EXPLOSIVE BOMBSHELLS that are going to destroy him has helped create the split. It’s a boy who cried wolf kind of situation.

Here in Australia since your goddamn elections there is at least one story a day about the latest thing trump has done - I don’t give a shit about his tweets but the media makes a huge deal out of it every time. There was a story on a news website here about the truth behind his hair that was on their front page for two fucking days, so it’s pretty easy to accept that the media is biased against him. Then when something comes out like Russian collusion, I’m automatically thinking oh another one of their stories.

This also creates a kind of situation where if you push the Russian thing then you’re on the side of the MSM, but if you deny it then your a tool of the government. It’s a no win for everyone

Edit: what I mean about the media here is that if it’s that bad here, I can’t even imagine what it’d be like over there

Because there is no evidence of Trump/Russia collusion and the entire theory doesn't even make sense. Meanwhile there is a ton of evidence of Hillary and DNC doing exactly what Trump is being accused of and the media ignores it. In other words the people pushing the Trump/Russia nonsense have no credibility.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. You didn't make any attempt to actually discredit anything, your entire post essentially boils down to "fake news"/"but hillary"/"people are saying".

As someone who has been paying rapt attention to this thing as it has played out, I disagree with your basic assertions, but we have nowhere to hash out those differences aside from illusory posts that will effectively vanish into the ether within a day. What's the point in going in to details in that kind of environment?

If I asked you, I'd hope you have more information to expand on your reasons for your beliefs, as I do my own. But, neither of us is going to make the effort to do that because we're effectively starting from zero with each interaction. That's way too much effort just to have a meaningful discussion with a single person.

Group those discussions up in a rolling megathread, and we at least have a chance at those discussions. You'd start to recognize other people in the thread and have a basis of understanding to interact with each other and talk to one another.

you're responding to a guy who frequents T_D and recently made the following comment. His post history is funny, he was barely politically active until he hopped on the Trump Train. Funny that people still think there was no influence from Russia when you can literally see the moment people started getting all up in arms about it. Like really, you would have chose Donald Trump as your president? Donald Trump beat every other republican to win the primary because he's a better candidate?

Mass delusion aka "liberalism" is a mental disorder.

Wonder how many dank Pepe memes were made in St. Petersberg.

LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiGxqtlRdyE

Because there is no evidence of Trump/Russia collusion and the entire theory doesn't even make sense.

Pure, undiluted, unabashed shilling from one of our (many) friends at The_Donald.

My holiday will no doubt commence shortly, but the truth is the truth.

Because there is no evidence of Trump/Russia collusion

lol

Jr. literally admitted to it in writing, and here you are with "no evidence". Some conspiracy theorist.

What exactly did he admit too.

He responded

What is the full quote of the "admission" and who exactly was he talking to?

I believe this is what you might be asking for https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/884789418455953413

LOL, you shills are hilarious. I wonder when you leftist dolts will realize their entire world view has been formed by Communist ideological subversion. Russia has been hacking gullible leftist minds since the 1950's and you're the result.

What part of DT JR's tweet makes me a shill?

You already said this too me. New shill attacks please

How come no one is talking about the Steele Dossier?

Isn't the fact that a campaign, payed a foreign spy (UK Government interference?) to come up with a report from Russian agents (Russian Government Interference?) to affect an election exactly what they are accusing Trump's campaign of?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Steele

The guy is a known MI6 agent. It isn't even denied.

Almost like there's a huge difference between collaborating with our closest ally and a hostile foreign entity we have a long history of being at odds with.

If Christopher Steele, MI6 guy, is being paid by a campaign to smear another campaign, and Christopher Steele himself, is collaborating with Russia, who we have a long history of being at odds with, your words, how is that not collaborating with Russia by proxy?

Christopher Steele himself, is collaborating with Russia

This is inaccurate. He didn't collaborate with Russia as a state. He had contacts in Russia he garnered information from. World of difference.

There was no safe way he could return to Russia to do the actual digging; the vengeful F.S.B. would be watching him closely. But no doubt he had a working relationship with knowledgeable contacts in London and elsewhere in the West, from angry émigrés to wheeling-and-dealing oligarchs always eager to curry favor with a man with ties to the Secret Service, to political dissidents with well-honed axes to grind. And, perhaps most promising of all, he had access to the networks of well-placed Joes—to use the jargon of his former profession—he’d directed from his desk at London Station, assets who had their eyes and ears on the ground in Russia.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/03/how-the-explosive-russian-dossier-was-compiled-christopher-steele

This is inaccurate. He didn't collaborate with Russia as a state. He had contacts in Russia he garnered information from. World of difference.

Isn't this exactly what Trump and his people are being accused of?

Having contacts?

How do you know those contacts Steele had were not Putin's cronies?

Do you think Putin, with the ego he has, wouldn't be playing all sides of this for what they are worth in one way or the other? Putin is a guy who has his cake and eats it to.

Maybe you're totally unfamiliar with who Steele is.

The people he knew wanted to curry favor with the West. They were dissidents, opportunists, etc.

Trump is being accused (and I believe there's documented evidence of this) of having direct ties to businessmen and oligarchs in Putin's inner circle.

One talked to people that wanted to dish dirt on Putin to the West, the other is suspected of being in bed with Putin.

I believe there's documented evidence of this

Well your beliefs are not based in reality. This whole Russia-Trump thing didn't come to light until after the election was over. It was dreamed up by the DNS. Muller already indited 13 Russians. I'm still waiting 1+ year now to see where this Trump-Russia link is.

You know what Trump-Russia link is documented? The sale of Uranium One and the speaking fees, Clinton Foundation drying up after election is over.

I don't trust Trump as far as I can throw him, but I don't see any real link to Russia here. I have closer links to Russia here in NJ when I hire a mover.

We'll see, man. He now concedes that Russia meddled in the election and still won't enact the bipartisan sanctions against them.

Trump Jr. forwarded Kushner an email thread with the subject “Russia - Clinton - private and confidential,” and further down in the thread, publicist Rob Goldstone clearly states he is setting up this meeting as part of “part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump"

That's from emails Trump Jr. released.

Hmm...."the Russian government's support for Trump."

No links though!! Look over there!

Let's not bullshit each other. You don't have anywhere near the number of links to Russia as Trump. You could hire whoever the fuck you want and the Russian government is never going to have a plan to support you.

"the Russian government's support for Trump."

And so who cares?

I mean I want to see some real crimes here before I blow my load over this.

So our enemy is friendly to us, isn't that a fucking good thing? Do you want us to have the same relationship with Russia as we have with North Korea?

I don't know about you but I'm tired of fucking wars, cold wars and otherwise.

Look at the shit we have been doing in the middle east over the past 25+ years. Compared to Russia we are the bad guys. I don't want to be the bad guys anymore.

I don't give two shits about Putin, Trump, Hillary, Obama or any other one of these fuckers but I see no reason we need to have high tensions with Russia because as far as I can tell, the people of Russia like us, like our stuff, like our way of life and are not our enemies. When you have wars and tensions, the only people to get hurt are the innocent ones. Not the ones at the top in power.

If Trump colluded with Russia to get dirt on Hillary, so fucking what!!!

We don't need world war 3 over politics.

So our enemy is friendly to us, isn't that a fucking good thing?

Candidate Trump is not "us" or "America." You must be doing this deliberately bc that is painfully obvious.

If Trump colluded with Russia to get dirt on Hillary, so fucking what!!!

So what? He broke the law and colluded with a hostile foreign government to subvert our democracy and win the highest office of the land?!

Months ago I predicted it would come down to this for T_D types- which you're totally not one of, right.

I don't know if you're this uninformed or are just trying to be deliberately argumentative, but I'm done.

Last word's all yours.

Last word's all yours.

Lets agree to disagree.

LOL, fucking loser shill. Daddy Soros is going to fuck you in the end.

LOL shills out in full force; your down votes sustain me. Up is down and down is up.

Isn't the fact that a campaign, payed a foreign spy (UK Government interference?)

This isn't what happened though, and you know it. The DNC hired Fusion GPS through Perkins Cole, and Fusion GPS hired Steele. There is no direct connection that goes from the DNC or Hillary to Steele.

There is no direct connection that goes from the DNC or Hillary to Steele.

But don't you see that is exactly what they wanted? They didn't want a direct connection. Fusion GPS is the proxy, and so is Steele.

If I shoot a gun blindly out my window, and someone dies, is it not my fault because it was a bullet that killed that person and not the gun in my hand?

They always use proxies; the Clinton's are season career criminals. Hillary is the definition of a sociopath.

This sub has been bought by evil losers spreading disinformation propaganda, aka the Democrat (Communist) party. Democrats bought r/politics to spread propaganda for a measily 2.8 million.

Meanwhile, here is what we do know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Steele

The guy is a known MI6 agent. It isn't even debated.

Sorry but "Hi John, The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus?" doesn't make sense in any other context

You're really missing the point of my post, but I'll humor you.

Devil's Advocate:

John ordered pizza the last time they were all at the house in question (note: realtor found...). Someone else offered to pick up the pizza, but didn't know where the pizza place was. John sketched a basic map with an end goal of "____ Pizza." Email sender (knowing that John ordered the pizza and someone else got it) speculates that perhaps John wrote the map on the handkerchief, and it might belong to John.

alternate theory

John loves pizza, and has strong opinions about the best pizza places in the area. John won't shut up about a topic when you express interest and he's drunk. John also likes to draw things when he gets drunk. Email sender knows this about John, and speculates that the odd, seemingly pizza-related handkerchief/map might be John's.

There you go, two at least semi-plausible contexts in which that sentence makes sense.

Agree on the principle of playing DA but in this case the attack could be on the DA argument itself and not the concept of playing DA.

For your example, void of other context you could make other interpretations sure, but within the context of FBI recognized pedo symbols and code words going off like fresh popcorn, you do have question a benign interpretation.

"And I thought I’d share a couple more notes: We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure."

Within that framework, emails like that bend to the sinister, imo. Who the hell is "entertained" by children playing in a pool? Children playing are generally loud and obnoxious but we let them do it because it is healthy for their development, not because it's "entertaining." I have a hard time accepting the DA arguments in this case, so may that's the reason you get push back, not against the concept of making DA arguments.

Whew. People really are missing the point here. Look, I'm not really interested in re-fighting pizzagate.

That said

Is sarcasm and dry humor just, not a thing among fans of pizzagate? As in, both parties know that young children are often obnoxious to have around, and are assuredly not "entertainment"... like... man, it really is kind of hard to explain sarcasm. Do you not joke around with your friends like that ever? Implying that something you both know isn't fun will actually be fun, just for the joke of it? To acknowledge without saying that it won't be fun, but it is happening?

As for the "FBI Recognized pedo symbols and code words," are you referring to this document? You know what that document doesn't mention? Pizza. Anywhere on it. Best as I can tell, the only reference associating pizza w/ pedophilia (and the list of "code words" I've seen floating around re: pizzagate) is 4chan, with the evidence essentially amounting to "because I said so."

Anyways, I'm not really interested in going further with this discussion, but isn't this a great example of something that should have been a mega-thread with continuing discussions, rather than scattered across the dozens of breathless "new 4chan evidence!" threads that were popping out?

I'm agreeing with you both on the point of the importance of making DA arguments, and on the point of not rehashing old material. My point (which perhaps I sabotaged by getting too deep into the weeds) is just that you may be misinterpreting the push back of people engaging with your arguments for the push back of people not wanting to entertain arguments.

Sure, I can see that (and I actually made almost exactly that point to someone else here, earlier today). My bigger issue isn't related to "pushback", though, so much as... suppression?

I don't know. I'm not in love with that word for it. I don't think there's enough of an active contingent of people literally suppressing stuff about Russiagate to completely stifle it. I've certainly seen some of the bigger "bombshells" make it to the top of this sub. However, all talk about Russiagate all but disappears once those stories are off the front page.

Well that’s certainly valid since paid participation is conspiracy fact. I guess that means it takes more time to discern which is which, making it more costly to engage in time wise to discuss leading less people to participate which is a classic secondary goal of disinfo predating the internet.

I really appreciate your comments on these topics, probably because I agree with you but they are just very levelheaded and not antagonistic.

Thanks.

Thanks! I'm keeping it in check for this thread, but I'm a bit of an antagonistic shithead when I'm in a bad mood...

You are literally using conspiracy theorist logic to justify a bunch of very clear evidence of fucked up shit. Is it really that hard for you to imagine extremely powerful people are using their power in inhumane ways? We're talking about society being based on competition that rewards sociopathy, but it's too difficult for you to see all these blatant puzzle pieces point in a specific direction.

For fuck's sake, the guy has a statue of a Jeffrey Dahmer murder victim, and paintings of cannibalism. Is that fucking normal to you? Or is it all just sarcastic tongue-in-cheek edginess? That's just hilarious what you're willing to defend.

I also want to make clear that by being dismissive of Pizzagate I'm not trying to be dismissive of the issue in general. We've had ample evidence of people in power committing sexual abuses. I just, personally, have not been convinced by any of the "evidence" re: Pizzagate (especially considering the source of the materials and their relation to Russia/Trump/Russian propaganda efforts).

And no, I don't consider your picture of a murder victim next to a statue by a French-American feminist artist (who has never made any mention of the statue being based on the picture you provided) to be compelling evidence.

Just because you believe a theory does not mean that anyone who doesn't is an idiot or inhumane or whatever thing you may want to think of me.

Some of us still believe the burden of proof is on the accuser, rather than the accused.

Do you protect every other accused person/group this strongly? Do you trust what the media says about anything, or do you think their perspectives are equally as biased/flawed?

We're talking about people who will never be scrutinized by any law enforcement, and you think we should look the other way immediately when all these things point to a similar type of system as many other countries have faced over powerful people being involved with child abuse/exploitation.

I've been a redditor for 8 years. I've been around long enough to have gotten a #1 /r/all post that only netted ~2000 upvotes because Reddit's population was so much smaller back then. I've been into conspiracy theories since 9/11 and the Bush admin got me interested in high school and I've been a constant lurker on /r/conspiracy for a long time. The attitude around here has changed dramatically and it just so happened to coincide with a certain asshole Cult of Personality being elected President. If you can't see that, you're being willfully ignorant.

Ah, there it is. It seems you're pro-establishment along with their Russia conspiracy. You couldn't be more obvious, friend.

So... how exactly does me hating Trump make me "pro-establishment"?

Look, I don't need to defend myself to you. I've been a fan of this sub for a long time, and I dislike the way it has changed over the last few years. It seems like I'm hardly alone in that opinion.

Trump is literally the establishment, and he's being used by the rest of the mainstream establishment like a whipping boy/heatsink. Rather than looking at any of the corruption that happened during the Primaries, it's all been thrown on Russia and they slowly let out more and more "truth" that it was coincidentally exactly what they thought, rather than being corruption from our side, which is exactly how it appeared. Amazing how well they just knew that would all work out that way, rather than the media implicating itself in clear collusion, we get to worry more about how Seth Rich Russia leaked all those things.

Attacking Trump is literally pro-establishment. If you were against the establishment, you'd realize Trump is a product of the oligarchs flooding the media with hate and making him the "Republican pied piper" because they were so afraid that Hillary had nothing good to share and they couldn't possibly risk advertising for Sanders.

I'm entertained by children playing. Brings me a sense of joy. Doesn't bring to mind sex at all, and it disgusts me that people think it would.

Then if any of those scenarios are true, which they very well could be, why has never came out and addressed it? Not even an attempt, other than he says it was debunked, his own words not mine. Not with just this email though, he hasn't addressed any of them and the weird coded language that's used throughout.

Well, think about it from his perspective. What's the benefit of doing what you say? Of addressing each point specifically? Would that stop the speculation? I don't think anyone can honestly claim that to be true. If you already believe that he is guilty of these things, him simply saying "that's not true, we were talking about hanging out and getting pizza" isn't going to be compelling evidence for anyone. It is hardly a unique tactic to avoid fueling controversy by not commenting on it. That's PR 101 in a lot of cases.

Furthermore, it is entirely possible that he doesn't remember the specifics of some of emails in question. For those buying in to Pizzagate, these are important, pivotal emails. If you buy the other side that he's innocent, these emails are essentially meaningless to him. Would you remember the context of every email you've sent to a friend?

Everything you said makes sense and I agree. But he comes out and says it was all debunked yet he can't point to where it was all debunked. Thats not him ignoring it, that's him telling us to ignore it.

Thats not him ignoring it, that's him telling us to ignore it.

Well, sure. But does that have to come from a sinister reason? Back to being in his shoes. Presume you're completely innocent. How must it feel to be called a pedophile based on the words of some people on the internet interpreting your stolen personal emails in a (from your perspective) nonsensical way? And not just to be called it, but to know that many of those people believe it deep in their bones? Wouldn't you want to "tell people to ignore it" just a little bit?

I would explain my side of things and show supporting evidence. After that it would be out of my hands. There'd still be people talking about it but they were going to talk regardless. At least that way my supporters would have concrete proof from me explaining my side of things.

semi-plausible

That is a stretch

How about... “Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?”

Really? Taking it at face value, they were looking at real estate, John left a handkerchief behind, the handkerchief had some pizza-related design on it, and the realtor found it. I mean, I'll admit that pizza designs on a handkerchief are a bit uncommon, but to say that the only context that line makes sense in is as code for an underground child sex ring is just absurd.

How about... “Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?”

In context?

I think you should give notice when changing strategies which have been long in place. I immediately realized something was different by the shape of the box and I contemplated who would be sending me something in the square shaped box. Lo and behold, instead of pasta and wonderful sauces, it was a lovely, tempting assortment of cheeses, Yummy. I am awaiting the return of my children and grandchildren from their holiday travels so that we can demolish them.

Thank you so much. I hope you and your gang are well.

I miss you both

Best wishes fro a merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Herb

Ps. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?

It sounds like John Podesta typically sends Herbert Sandler pasta for Christmas, and in 2015, decided to mix it up by sending an assortment of cheeses. Sandler is making light of the change from tradition, and is jokingly asking if the cheeses will help his dominoes game compared to the traditional pastas.

I don't want to dismiss the idea that this all is code speak out of hand, but let's not pretend like that's literally the only conceivable explanation.

doesn't make sense in any other context

As the comment OP hypothesized, there are many other contexts where this could make sense...

“Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?”

Cheese and pasta are code for different drugs. See how easy that was?

Yeah you just made that up.

Alefantis or the Podestas have no know history of drug use.

Also code words like, for example, cheese pizza for child porn, have been known for years.

Does this kind of art look normal to you?

https://www.sott.net/image/s17/357198/large/biljana_djurdjevic_serbia_pain.jpg

Yeah you just made that up.

Yay! You get it! It's all made up.

No, I didn't make up the darkweb code words for child trafficking

I didn’t say you did.

[removed]

I didn't say that you did.

Yes you did. You said 'its all made up'

You are not as good at gaslighting as you think you are.

"Its all made up" =/= "You made it up"..

The world doesn't revolve around you ;)

That's an irrelevant distinction.

You are implying someone just made it all up.

That's an irrelevant distinction.

Its really not.

Stating that you made it up implies that you know the evidence is fabricated. That is not the implication if someone else created it.

What exactly are you claiming is fabricated?

The evidence.

And look I'm not interested in hashing out the details out Pizzagate.

We can both go our separate ways thinking that we are right.

Which evidence is that?

The released emails from WikiLeaks (who have not once been shown to have released anything that isn't 100% legit) ?

Or the publicly available information about the art tastes of James alefantis and the Podestas?

You could argue that the conclusions drawn are incorrect, but to claim the evidence is fabricated means you are either being disingenuous or are mentally deficient.

WikiLeaks has been known to edit documents they release or omit portions.

So first you claim that the multiple emails of the millionaire Washington elite discussing pizza and hotdogs is totally not suspicious, but coincidentally is known darkweb code for pedophilia and child trafficking.

"I'm dreaming about your hotdog stand in Hawaii..." John Podesta has a hotdog stand?

"The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related) "

"Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?"

"Would love to get a pizza for an hour? Or come over,"

"Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?"

Meanwhile, Tony Podesta has a close personal relationship with convicted pedophile Dennis hasert.

And Laura Silsby, former director of The New Life Children's Refuge, who had a relationship with HRC since 2001 is caught attempting to abduct and traffic 33 children from Haiti.

But now you are claiming that the emails were completely fabricated, because of WikiLeaks apparent history of editing and omission. The only claim made of editing to the leaked emails was adding the word confidential.

And again, no one credible has tried to claim that WikiLeaks has fabricated documents. Not once.

Your logic and reasoning stand up to no scrutiny.

is totally not suspicious

When did I say this?

Cheese and pasta are code for different drugs. See how easy that was?

Yay! You get it! It's all made up.

I am getting the feeling that you don't know that words are different.

You made it up =/= it is made up. (we covered that one but I thought you may have forgotten)

"is totally not suspicious" =/= "is made up"

The codewords mean something else!

and

the codewords were fabricated!

are not mutally exclusive.

I am getting the feeling that you don't know that words are different. You made it up =/= it is made up. (we covered that one but I thought you may have forgotten) "is totally not suspicious" =/= "is made up"

No, you seem to be confusing yourself because you made two different claims in this thread.

The claim that the emails are legit but the codewords are referring to drugs, so are 'not suspicious ' in the context of child trafficking.

The other claim that you don't trust WikiLeaks so the emails were fabricated.

And yes, these two claims are mutually exclusive.

You assumed that I was meant every email was fabricated.

My points is that those could be code words for something else. It is not definitive.

Also, in general I do not trust WikiLeaks.

Your personal distrust of WikiLeaks doesn't detract from the credibility that these emails are legit, even just the selection I quoted.

And no, if you look at the bigger picture, the emails, the artwork and the multiple personal connections to pedophiles and child abductors....the codewords meaning drugs or something else makes no sense.

I feel the same way about the Trump/Russia conspiracy. This is my most active sub but I wont subscribe because of this point. Try to bring it up and you get insulted or called a shill.

Very true

People are trying hard to turn this sub into /r/politics

The Trump Russia conspiracy sounds great, I just don't think we can get a good idea of what's going on. We have right wingers off handedly dismissing it, demanding evidence they would never otherwise demand on this sub acting as if there is absolutely nothing connecting it to Trump. We have left wingers who know that Trump is guilty when they would demand what the Trump supporters are while it's their party under the microscope denying everything just the same. It's blind partisanship where each side gives every single last benefit of the doubt, no matter how absurd to their party, and declare guilt if they but so much as dream the other side did something.

This is why politics is such a sham in here. People want to play debunker when it suits them, and they want to buy evidence they would otherwise dismiss when it benefits them. Basically Trump supporters and Hillary supporters ruined that topic for us.

I didn't vote for Hillary and I think anyone who objectively reads the testimony of Juanita Broderick, and the other accusers of Bill will conclude that Bill is a rapist.

If there's no Trump/Russia conspiracy, can anyone explain this: Obama got wind of Russia meddling, he kicked out 35 Russian diplomats, seized two Russian compounds in America and imposed sanctions. Trump has said he "believes they (Russians) didn't interfere) and has now been forced to eat his words, conceding that they have---yet he STILL will not enact the bipartisan sanctions passed against Russia for election meddling.

I believe the above would indicate to any objective observer that is something is rotten in Denmark.

"If Russia or anybody else is trying to interfere with our elections, I think it’s a horrible thing and I want to get to the bottom of it," Trump said. "And I want to make sure it will never, ever happen."

"As far as hacking, I think it was Russia," he said. "But I think we also get hacked by other countries and other people."

Which are great things to say, but are puzzling when combined with other things he's said and done. He's also said that he believes Russia didn't fuck with our elections because he asked Putin and Putin told him they didn't. Or, that he's declined to enforce new sanctions made by Congress and that he himself signed.

It’s a big show just for us. Round and round

Laughable.

If he thinks it's horrible why has he still not enacted the bipartisan sanctions passed against them for interfering?

“We believe it was the DNC that did the ‘hacking’ as a way to distract from the many issues facing their deeply flawed candidate and failed party leader.”

July 25 — The FBI confirms it has opened an investigation into the hacking of the DNC computer network. In a tweet, Trump says: “The new joke in town is that Russia leaked the disastrous DNC e-mails, which should never have been written (stupid), because Putin likes me.”

In an interview that airs on RT, formerly known as Russia Today, Trump says it is “pretty unlikely” that the Russian government was behind the hacks targeting the Democratic Party. “I think maybe the Democrats are putting that out. Who knows? But I think that it’s pretty unlikely,” Trump says.

“I notice any time anything wrong happens they like to say, the Russians, the Russians — she doesn’t know it’s the Russians doing the hacking, maybe there is no hacking. But they always blame Russia.”

In an interview with Time magazine, Trump says, “I don’t believe they interfered. That became a laughing point, not a talking point, a laughing point. Any time I do something, they say ‘oh, Russia interfered.'”

It just goes on and on, like this.

Now he wants his base to believe, "I never said Russia didn't meddle."

Except he's on record saying, "I don't believe they interfered."

All that's moot, however. He now is certain they interfered and still isn't doing shit about it. Why?

It's because of the "blow for blow" nature of the information that I think that the Trump/Rus stuff is bullshit.

If you could list all important shit from when Trump became President, it became clear that this is just another attack like many others directed to him by the Alphabet folks. And well......Trump retaliate.

So Kushner getting emails about "part of the Russian government's support for Mr. Trump," and then going to meet those Russians is the doing of an alphabet agency?

Even if it were, the non-treasonous action on Kushner's part would be to alert the FBI- not reply "I love it!" and go to the meeting.

None of those things matter. It’s a puzzle for you to spin yourself around and get all frazzled about. That’s the point of this post. You don’t have a vote. You have no choice. Once you believe/understand that, you can truly enjoy some of the better content this sub has to offer. And in the OPs pov, used to offer

If Trump colluded with Russia it matters. It would almost certainly impact anonymity on the internet, perhaps VPNs, international relations, American history, the tenuous future of the GOP, the list just keeps going.

I've been posting here for four years almost exclusively on psychotronic mind control. That's great, but if I see a potentially huge political conspiracy unfolding presently, I'm going to discuss it on /r/conspiracy. I think that's appropriate.

There are people above politicians. Terrible people IMO. However, only a fool truly believes American life isn't different under Rs or Ds.

Well I guess I’m a fool. Let me know when a politician stands up for and defends your rights by putting an end to the IRS and unrepresented federal tax program. That’d be a good start to a positive change in this country. Everything else is a mere smokescreen to keep you entertained. No real changes come from politics. Change comes from money by whoever has it

You can’t be this naive and frequent this sub. I have a real hard time believing it. This is the whole conspiracies are mainstream now point I made somewhere else on this thread

Would we have these massive tax breaks for the rich under a Dem? Obama restricted the loophole that gave tax breaks to golf course owners. Do you think Trump will do that?

Obama specifically protected net neutrality. I find it exceedingly likely a Deomcrat succesor would have kept that policy in place. Gone now, though, right?

If you think that's not a big deal, visit /r/netneutrality, or search "times when companies violated net neutrality." Either way it's a policy that benefits only corporations and not people.

Almost as if one party has a pattern of catering to the wealthy and corporations....

How about this guy? Do you think he's "naive" like me and a dummy for believing it makes a difference wheter a Democrat or Republican is in charge?

Wake up, man. Read the news. Look around you.

Michigan father deported to Mexico after living in U.S. for three decades

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/michigan-father-deported-mexico-after-living-u-s-three-decades-n838211

I like how how long someone has been involved in the internet establishes their credibility. I hope you find what you’re looking for through all this anger. Hopefully you will see none of this matters and find some peace. Good luck

Definitely matters to the husband and father who got kicked out of the country, right? Little bit?

If you’re so worried about policy and rules why are you so upset when someone gets punished for breaking them. Wake up. This is all a fucking show. Not saying a man did not get taken away from his family but the “forces” that removed him are not what you think they are

You said it doesn't matter if a Democrat or Republican is in power. It does.

Why did you delete your comments?

Everyone needs to get off their high horses about election meddling. The two biggest election meddlers on the planet are the USA and Israel, and yet everyone seems to care about Russia more than anything? If people outraged by this were logically consistent, there would be riots in the streets over Israel interfering in our elections and in our media so thoroughly for so many decades. There would be major protests over the fact that the USA meddles in other countries elections through propaganda, through sanctions, hell, sometimes through coups. People care about the Russia story because they were programmed to care about it. There is no logical consistency, they cherrypick this issue and ignore others just like it.

Hail Murdoch, brother!

Butwhataboutamerica?!

Butwhataboutisrael?

Agreed. Of course I'd like to say I'm above it as a Bernie guy who has his own issues with the Left and the Clintons specifically, but I'm sure I'm not completely innocent on equal expectations for each "side".

Well put. No objectivity at all. It’s like people have forgotten how to argue or deconstruct a situation without emotion

We have left wingers who know that Trump is guilty

To be fair, having that level of confidence in your conspiracy theories, even with no hard evidence, seems like it's supposed to be the accepted norm in this community.

I wouldn't even have a problem with that if it were consistent. The problem is politically, it's those same people who will demand the same they are bitching about thing when it's their party under the microscope.

We have left wingers who know that Trump is guilty when they would demand what the Trump supporters are if it were their party under the microscope denying everything just the same.

I feel like this bit could have benefited from some commas, or something.

I'm very interested in it too! Especially since it's one going on right now. How exciting? But a good majority of this sub are busy outright denying it and posting their own propaganda that tries to dismiss it! It blows my mind how a conspiracy sub doesn't entertain the possibility that a person in one of the highest positions of power could be part of a conspiracy.

How do you propose the mods of cut out all of the hyper-partisan shit?

That's the tough question, and I'm not really sure I have a good answer. I don't think censorship of political opinions in general is the right move, but there's got to be some level of middle ground to operate on.

Like, political talk is fine if there's a purpose and relation to the subject being discussed, but blatant shit slinging and sniping on the usual left/right tropes is removed? I don't know. I'm not sure I've ever seen a really good way to handle political talk in a message board/forum.

That's why I'm not as bothered by them throwing things into contest mode. I don't know what the answer is either. I'm guilty of getting partisan as well. There's some good conspiracy shit in politics right now. Almost too good. Both sides are selling something. It's easy to get caught up. When I look around the rest of reddit a lot does seem to be compromised. I don't think the mods here have an easy task in this.

The contest mode thing bugs me only because (from my own, incomplete point of view) it has only happened for threads that are anti-Trump in the comments. But I'm not around often enough to claim that hasn't ever happened in the other direction.

It happened the other day in a Kim dotcom/Seth Rich thread that was getting hit hard. I give them props for trying to do something. Like I said earlier, this shit can't be easy.

Check out r/RussiaLago for worthwhile articles, discussions, and theories on Trump/Russia. You won't find any of that here

"Worthwhile"

Lol, coming from the guy who's been spamming the same comment on this sub and others for months now, if not longer.

And funny that other times you've commented I've seen others calling out that most of the subreddits aren't even active, and yet you've never updated the list. In fact of the first three subreddits I clicked on, one has only three posts and hasn't had any activity in a year, another is private and actually links to t_d, and the other doesn't even exist. Who are you trying to fool?

Ad hominem attempt fail

Yeah, they pumped out all those subs around the time they changed the algorithm to only allow one front-paged post per sub at any given time. That's undoubtedly their method of blacking out the skies from any valid discussion.

Do you really think people in here are going to align with MSM?

Rejecting a conspiracy because "normies" can agree with it is the epitome of poor thinking and hipsterism. If one of your requirements for believing in a conspiracy theory is "no one but my little group of 'open-minded thinkers' can believe in it too", then you need to take a long hard look at what this sub and its content really mean to you

What in the fuck are you talking about?

People here choosing whether or not to align with the MSM, exactly the thing you mentioned in the post I responded to.

I just made a simple comment. If I look at the content here most people don’t agree with the MSM. And if you do agree with the MSM then it’s not quite a conspiracy is it?

And if you do agree with the MSM then it’s not quite a conspiracy is it?

Completely incorrect, unless you're using a really dumb definition of the word "conspiracy".

If I look at the content here most people don’t agree with the MSM.

You're not wrong, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Distrust the MSM all you want, but if your distrust leads you to oppose what they're reporting just on principal, your eyes are more closed than any "sheeple".

Your right, sorry about my comment.

So well said mirrormn.

Apparently they do. They just love a good ol' talking down to by the MSM.

Both sides, well msm took the russia hack side. Everyone else laughed it put becuase of lack of meat on them claims. Everything establsihment and corrupt US has done is contrary to russia collusion claims. Even when simple logic is employed that narrative is weak, when reading reports and somewhere is barried a clause stating that the info provided is not proof, but an indiscator its just wow. When US has been beating its chest with NSA, cia and fbi claims to be masters of hacking and control, suddenly a bunch of russian trolls can outwitt worlds largest defence budgets and manpower. Then there is lack or reporting on any other country hacking. Seriously, you dont smell bullshit when its ONLY russia? What about china, sudan, iran, turkey? What about NKorea and other countreies, do they sort of not exist? Conspiracy dissmisses russia trump collusion becausr they take one look at how trump is running the gov and realise that its all the same, same puppet, same corrupt corporate agenda. Where russians used to be soviets and red scrae was used to dissmental social movements like worker unions, etc all the markers are that this is a diversion. Not an actual conspiracy.

WOW, someone's post history screams "I <3 RUSSIA!!!", never thought I'd find one in the wild

How does it scream love russia? it screams hate American mass propoganda campaign.

But I guess after almost 2 years of russia hate on american channels, I had to expect this level of stupidity to still come around. Its been intensifying on reddit, and i guess its about time its made its way onto conspiracy sub as well.

Thats what 22nd century cold war propoganda is I suppose.

These are direct quotes from YOU:

"US keeps trying. But no matter how, much it tries geopolitics still matter more than some fat guy screaming propoganda in order to stop trade development of russia."

"Except all those tiny third world nations like Nkorea, Iraq, Syria just arent large scale enough. They cant fight china directly, china supplies US market. So this leaves Russia. Noone else left."

All the talk about how Russia has been put down by the US, all the posts to r/Russia... dude please

I express my opinion. And I am a part of many comunities. Atm the discussion is regarding US and their propoganda. Not russian, russia dorsnt control the media, 6 US corporations do. And the narrative that media spews affects the world because ppaces like austrlia where i am from, this is toxic. If I had to choose I would go with russia, because USA is acting very badly for the last 2 decades. And the people are complacent with the direction their leaders are taking international policy and domestic policy. I want a better world, not one where corruption is so blatant that propoganda that keeps churning shit narrative is influencing millions to support it. I am dead tired of hearing one sided emotionaly manipulative arguments for pro war american efforts. I am not alone anlot of europians have the same option. Yet because its contrary to the establishment of US politics its somehow russia love or russia troll. Yes, lets suppress all views contrary to that, because thats healthy as fuck!

See something, say something

People dont want to talk about the Trump Russia conspiracy because they're only interested in conspiracies that fit their world view.

Because lets be real, if it were about empirical evidence and rational thinking, this sub wouldn't exist.

Maybe I'm a bit too much of an X-Files junky, but that show is what got me into conspiracy theories. So to me, a juicy government conspiracy is 100% where I'm at.

There's still so much to think about, so many connections. At least, until the investigation wraps up.

I disagree. Good conspiracy theorists use an academic approach and lay out all the evidence and try to identify the empirical evidence upon which to build ideas, then critique those ideas to see if they stand up.

do you see that around this sub? This place has always been for the paranoid and delusional

It used to be like that. Now it’s just trolls sewing discord.

This sub has become a fishing ground for sites like Zerohedge who get instant clicks from some idiots who'll believe anything that praises Trump and discredits the Democrats.

It's because two kinds of people are attracted to conspiracies: the intellectually curious and the extremely ignorant that's fueled by bias.

The latter is what most of this sub is. Most people here honestly think of themselves of conspiracy theorists but they're fucking not, they're just people who already made their minds up or want to be contrarian and disagree with the mainstream just to be "different".

I lurk this place a lot but it's become so lame.

Why do you need this sub, your daily Drumpf conspiracy theory is right there on the mockingbird bird media front pages, and every science, technology circle-jerk of self-righteousness reddit can muster.

Because he's interested in open-minded dialogue. Discussion with people that are willing to look at it from both sides. You can't get that from the 'pure-left' or from the 'pure-right'. You used to be able to get it from here, but not lately, and not about Trump.

This is the exact kind of conspiracy I feel like this subreddit was waiting for, hell, I feel like they could have even found some of the ties before Mueller did. And it seems like so few find it interesting. It's one of the best of our lifetime, and it's in the discount bin, like no one wants it.

It's not in the discount bin, the Donald's bots come here to brigade and channel the conversation away from the Russia conspiracy because they know that Trump's approval is in the gutters and they know that Trump's done some shady shit, now I am not saying direct collusion but he's surely laundered money with Russian firms in the past and the Kremlin probably has some blackmail material on him.

I honestly feel like this subreddit seems a lot less "botty" than some other subreddits I've been to.

just go through account histories. Thereve been a ton of accounts come through since the 2 month old requirement, that are suddenly active accounts but maybe 1,2 years old or even older, yet with extremely low karma counts. They are either purchased accounts, or aged accounts. I rez tag them by colors and descriptors and sometimes you can just see a whole thread explode with them.

I think the FBI leaking to the media the Trump Dossier, then using that said dossier as an argument to investigate trump is more worthy of a /r/conspiracy thread than Trump/Russia

IMO it’s a redundant argument. As far as I can see the political are all in it together. Trump is just a yes man and always was like Obama before him etc

Three problems with Trump Russia:

1. It is being pushed in ungodly force by the LEAST credible forces alive. Any user of this sub pre 2015 would be as astounded as I am to see the media, politicians, celebrities, and companies being so blatant about the narrative. Trump Russia is not only predicated on Trump's corruption, but that the Intel agencies, mainstream media, and DNC are the "good guys". Nobody here could buy that hence the mass shills.

2. Trump's actions in office. It's been over a year now and Trump has been doing pretty much exactly what he said he would. Many parts of this like TPP and calling out fake news were cornerstones of this subreddit's interests. Alongside the shills, there is definitely a section of the user base that rejects the idea that a president could EVER be doing any good but that dwindles as time goes on.

3. Zero evidence. There is ZERO evidence. None. With the entire establishment against him, they have absolutely nothing on the guy. The only thing left is the argument that the Mueller investigation isn't over yet and you can't know the future. Weak.

Trump Russia is just not a conspiracy.

This sub’s compromised with shills and sheep.

We should start looking into ways to prevent this sub from going off track too often. Shills not only try to reinforce mainstream narratives, they probably also post dumb theories to get us distracted and going down the wrong path. The more bullshit they post, the more dilute the sub becomes and the more difficult it is to obtain useful information.

I think there should be a periodic reminder that there have been a great deal of proven conspiracies, some of them being international in scope, and involving large groups of people who got away with it for many years. This completely wipes out several of their main narratives, including the claim that the government must be too incompetent to pull off large conspiracies.

Periodically focusing on conspiracy facts, rather than theories, especially when many of the proven ones are very similar to current unproven theories, would do a lot of good here.

I think you bring up some pretty good points. Certain posts would be harder to be intercepted by shills if there were comparisons drawn between past proven conspiracies and today’s theories within the title and description.

Operation northwoods by itself is chilling.

Too many people immediately jump on the "you're defending drumpf" or the "trump can do no wrong" trains.
Looking at the comments here, you can see that both trains are blaming the other when neither opinion is helping.
Most of the posts are just a shitty news story with no end games listed and nothing of substance.
It will get better once douchebags quit acting "woke" because they watched Hannity or Maddow.

Yeah, I see complaints of the sub being both filled with Trump defenders and filled with liberal shills. So if both sides feel outnumbered, maybe it's more equal than we think? A bit like how the BBC gets equal complaints of left wing and right wing bias.

I'd say by the vote count just in this thread that this is sub leans more liberal, The average positive Trump comment is around negative 5 and the average Anti Trump comment is around positive 10+

A bit like how the BBC gets equal complaints of left wing and right wing bias.

That sounds like a conspiracy.

I honestly want this to be the place for non-partisan discussion for conspiracies on both sides.

It seems like people downvote whatever they don't politically agree with. But you're just supposed to downvote if the theory isn't a theory, or if the comment is 100% not related to the theory.

Don't like the Russia/Trump conspiracy? Then just... ignore it. Don't like reading about Nestle stealing all the water? Ignore it.

Don't like the Russia/Trump conspiracy? Then just... ignore it. Don't like reading about Nestle stealing all the water? Ignore it.

Exactly. We have people regularly posting anti-Russiagate stuff claiming that they're skeptical and sick of hearing about it. Ok so ignore it? But no, it's a campaign to smear it.

There is no such thing as non-partisan as long as there are at least two major groups.

What I mean to say is, despite that I did not believe that pizzagate was real, I still found it to be a fascinating conspiracy. So I read about it and followed what people were talking about.

I may have an opinion, but no matter what I find conspiracies fun. All of them.

So despite that I am, personally, politically partisan, my interest in conspiracies is not. I don't buy into every conspiracy, or many of them at all. I just like the thought exercise.

I personally love the trump russia conspiracy. Mostly do the total lack of any end game for Russia. Just people screaming about it and how Trump is a puppet.
I've yet to hear anything that makes a little sense.

The question of "why" is 90% of what makes it fun. Would it be to have him be a puppet, and turn the US effectively into an extension of Russia? If that was the goal, they somewhat failed as people are looking into it. But at the same time, politically speaking, we are more like Russia, and Russia is more like us than we have ever been, so maybe that one is not too far off. Or would it be simply to make america look weak so that other countries, like China, have an easier time becoming the world super-power. (China being better buddies with Russia, it would benefit them.)

Or, As Putin likes to just send fighter jets near america on holidays, and weird shit like that, what if it was all just the ultimate annoying prank? Just a reminder that Russia is clever, and that if they really wanted to, they could really mess shit up. Just like is implied by the jets that come close to US airspace. Though, imaging the amount of effort for a prank seems unthinkable. But then again, maybe that is the point. That it wasn't much effort.

There is the obvious lack of new sanctions being a perk, so maybe there's some incentive in that.

Or perhaps it's not Russia, it's another entity (Such as North Korea) doing a good job of covering it's tracks, by pitting the US against it's classic, cold-war era enemy?

Or even still, and this one is my favorite: The US government saw a lot of unrest under Bush and even Obama. What would be the best way to make americans happy for the conventional political system of yesteryear? Make it look like the modern one is compromised! Today it seems like people wish they had someone like George W Bush, rather than Trump. There's a lot of positive press for McCain, someone who lost a bid at the presidency before. Mueller has become a hero republican to the democrats.

So Trump leaves, Russia takes the blame, the US goes back to business as usual, with no pesky "occupy" movements or anything like that. Think about it, if someone just like George W is elected, people will be far less inclined to complain, because "by comparison to the Trump Russia thing, this is great!"

America seems to unify when there is a threat. So why start an all-out war when you could just make it look like we've been infiltrated?

only good reply here

Long time lurker. Have noticed the same closed minded narrative pushing posts since late October. This is a CONSPIRACY subreddit, not a truth subreddit. I understand some topics are left field and easily understood to be downvoted but real topics shouldn't be discredited.

real topics shouldn't be discredited.

What are the main 'real topics' which you see as being discredited on this sub?

You're missing the point. No one should be jumping in and saying "that is not real!" because it's a fucking conspiracy subreddit. If you don't agree, just move on to a post you find interesting.

We're supposed to be exploring conspiracies on here, not shutting them down.

That's the most frustrating part to me. I mainly lurk, but have been really irritated with all the attempts to shut down and dismiss discussion about particular conspiracies.

I'm just asking for examples.

If someone wants to say they think JFK was shot discreetly by the driver, yes, they are probably wrong. There's plenty of evidence that the driver couldn't have done it. But go ahead and let the "what ifs" of the conversation still happen, even though it's basically impossible for it to have been the driver.

This is a CONSPIRACY subreddit, not a truth subreddit.

Ahaha. I don't necessarily disagree, but the way you put it is hilarious. "Can we please have less truth so we can fit in more conspiracy?"

I like how conservatives pretend this sub didn't go straight to shit during the election when they were smoking the shit out of Trump's dick and stomping Hillary into the ground.

Even now that Hillary lost and Trump is president, this sub is still 1) anti-Hillary/Obama and 2) pro-Trump.

Like at least be honest about it.

Go to r/politics and people will tell you it's very left leaning because most of the posters are liberals.

Here, whenever you call out the "shills" the original ones pretend like they own this sub even though they only came here during the emails drops on Hillary.

This sub is never going to be non-politically charged unless they literally get rid of all political posts.

Like how come now one ever mentions how this sub was a 24/7 hub for hating on Hillary

Discussing the plethora of conspiracies surrounding her, her husband and their foundation is not "hating' on someone.

Could the same be said about Trump/Russia?

Sure, and you won't see me coming in there replying with

I'm not even going to waste my time replying to this, it's been debunked

Which is what makes the OP's argument different than yours.

Plus this subs genuine users will actually discuss it. Unlike every post in politics/ news/ets/ess/ tmor etc etc where they won't discuss the actual issues. They just downvote and throw insults if you question anything the MSM, excpet Fox, tells you. Genuine users here are interested in the truth and that's it.

Since the FBI said she was innocent she totally was. She didn't mean to mishandle classified information or mishandle her Charities billions of dollars into Haiti it was all an accident she is a good person trust me...

So why isn't there a conspiracy that both Hillary and Trump are garbage? Why does one just "have" to be the "good guy"?

Hillary is corrupt, therefore Trump is not? It seems odd for this subreddit to blindly trust any person with as much power as a president.

Why are you defending Hillary here by deflecting to Trump. I didn't say anything about him.

Hillary is corrupt, therefore Trump is not? It seems odd for this subreddit to blindly trust any person with as much power as a president.

It seems odd that not only are you implying my beliefs about Trump that are completely wrong, but more importantly you think you can speak for what this sub should believe or not...

What about Trump?

It seems odd that not only are you making a completely baseless assumption about my beliefs which are completely wrong, but more importantly and concerningly you have this false sense that you somehow can speak for what this sub should believe or not...

I'm pitching an alternative, and I'm trying to echo a common theme of this subreddit because of what OP was talking about. Wasn't meant to be a personal attack. Chill.

I even said a similar thing to the end of your message in another post.

I was mostly trying to say it seems like it is usually polarized. And the topic of bias came from Cal mentioning the "hating on Hillary" so sorry it came off as directed at you.

Yeah they are quick to forget how much this sub was invaded during the election. Now that users of this sub are finally fed up with the obvious propaganda and smear campaigns put out by the right, they cry about being brigaded.

I feel like the old r/conspiracy wouldn't trust either of them.

It weirds me out how much this subreddit has become political, with either side blindly trusting any part of the government.

thats why I sort by new.

On a typical visit, how many pages do you scroll through on the conspiracy subreddit?

I have found that, since the introduction of the SS rule, I only have to scroll through the first two or three pages of 'new' submissions to find enough content to keep me busy.

Yea as far as rules go, I am a big fan of that one. Really helped minimize the shitposts.

Same here, one to two pages of new is usually full of content.

Sort by new or controversial.

It is sad how all the real fringe topics has become such a breath of fresh air the rare times they fight the tide of shills and get any attention at all.

This sub has been dominated by political conspiracy topics and gaslighting for over a year now. I think that there is a massive interest in subverting the conspiracy community to get in and control counter culture narrative before they become mainstream as a result of Trump using them as a resource during his campaign. There also seems to be QUITE an effort to shill MSM outlet here, which is absurdly ironic and reflects a clear lack of understanding what conspiracy minded individuals would consider credible.

There was also a time not long in the past where the REAL gold was in the comments here instead of the main posts. Now it is just a bunch of partisan BS with comments like "This!" heavily upvoted to slide real discussion, and every other post is antagonistic of the one above it.

Somehow it is also okay to insult the sub in general and its users by calling it full of Shareblue shills or that it is TD_2.0 all the time.

I mostly agree with what you say, but I did have a point to make about the MSM shill part. I totally agree with being skeptical, and the threat of corporate influence in MSM sources (especially TV) is a real one, but at the same time MSM has been involved in breaking lots of conspiracies over the years.

Someone else in the thread linked to a list of proven conspiracy theories and I see a big list of MSM links and Wiki articles that often make reference to big newspapers and other MSM sources being involved in revealing the conspiracies.

Obviously that doesn't mean you can blindly trust any WAPO article you find, but you should also not completely ignore them either.

I agree with the IDEA of what you are saying, but I feel like we should be creating the context of what is being reported ourselves, and not rely on the editorial departments to spin it for us.

There are some really good, and objective journalists at a lot of mainstream outlets (Washington Post and Fox News included) but their work is usually colored up and defined by the editorial department and that is usually what is actually disseminated to the masses.

By controlling context, they can publish proof of real conspiracies but control and spin what elements that people focus on and will avoid the difficult questions that point to issues or the larger perspective of what they mean. The outlet will always paint a favorable perspective for those provided the information with the goal of gaining access to the resource for future stories. It is a mutually beneficial relationship in most cases.

The majority of "known" conspiracies are actually limited hangouts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

this sub is completely owned by the donald. you might as well go directly to r/cbst -basically the same thing with less shitposts.

I could get the sub started back on track by posting my 9/11 theory... haven't seen my version posted in a while.

Guaranteed to be a long thread. Hehe.

Do it.

I am now interested.

There are enough 9/11 theories. It’s not going to bring anything back lol

Link to some stuff?

Do it

You won't do it.

He hasn't done it.

9/11, a classic

Iconic.

Well, we are listening

do it

#god

"I want attention. Hehe."

I want alien stuff

Dude. Me. Too.

Yeah, I'm at the point where I'm close to rolling. It happened with Digg, it'll happen here. It's clear to see who they are, I've about had it. The bots and shills can play by themselves while a new platform is overtaken.

Voat? What's my alternative?

Steem?

I'll check it out, thanks.

recently it has been the most ctr activity in a while

What is CTR activity?

correct the record / american bridge / alot of other david brock superpacs and groups that literally hire people to troll online.

Ah, should have knew that acronym. thanks

We got too close to the truth.

Maybe we should just change the name of this sub to r/coincidence?

Your edit is what you complained about btw.

Hey I agree. But put the blame where it should lie: Reddit itself. I just got banned from a conservative based sub-Reddit for questioning the Holohoax narrative. I even offered to submit my sources, but they couldn't even be bothered to accept that. Democrats = Republicans. They're all the same.

I seriously feel the only good to really come out of this sub was elsagate and it had to move to its own sub lol

Taken over by shills and sockpuppets.

You had me until "this sub took a nosedive around the DNC leaks, Seth Rich, and pizzagate". These things are all unanswered questions that the govt is fucking involved with somehow.

You people still think there's a pedo hub in a pizza place in DC?

nope. we believe pedophiles in the deep web use terms like "walnut sauce on cheese pizza" to describe sexual acts with kids. Theres no logical reason for you to deny this.

If they're on the deep web why not just saying I'm fucking some kids at 3. And after so much exposure why still use pizza. Y'all some goons

we're the goons? are you serious right now? these people will be sent to prison for life, of course they arent going to come out and say it.

Yep, I agree.

Shills invaded, man. I posted about this not too long ago. Amassed over 250 comments but sat at 0 the entire time.

Absolutely infuriating.

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”

― Noam Chomsky, The Common Good

Yeah, Chomsky should know; he's the master of doing that! Disingenuous 9/11 denier.

Not too familiar with the guy. Just a fan of the quote.

In the interest of free and open discussion, tell me your views on 9/11?

It was orchestrated by a criminal international cabal with doors opened by the Bush administration. Complicity on the part of Pakistani intelligence, probably German intelligence, maybe British.

Wow, not Mossad?

I've heard a lot of different theories on 9/11 but never any that have implicated British and German intelligence as having been involved.

It's entirely possible Mossad played a technical role, because they go around the world doing that sort of thing. But the Israelis don't have the power to stand down the U.S. air defense system.

Pakistan sheltered the Taliban this whole time. Them and Israel are terrible allies (or wonderful partners in terror).

Yes, exactly.

When has he denied 9/11. Genuinely curious.

Oh, google it, because tons of times he has. He makes a point to do it; he's what we call a left gatekeeper. Says there's "no evidence at all!," gets all upset too. And he wrote a whole book denying that the establishment would have had any reason to kill JFK, which a LIE. Chomsky knows better; he's working for the bad guys, in my assessment.

And his linguistics career is absolutely bizarre. Chomsky's big idea was build a machine that could speak and understand all languages in proper grammar. It's something the CIA has been extremely interested in, originally in what they called Project Jason. Google "Christopher Knight Noam Chomsky" if you want a lengthy analysis of his linguistics career that exposes it as reactionary.

Have any links?

On 9/11: https://off-guardian.org/2016/10/11/analysis-of-the-sophistry-of-noam-chomsky-on-911/

On his linguistics career: http://radicalanthropologygroup.org/sites/default/files/pdf/pub_chomsky_politics_science.pdf

NLP and parsing grammar with machines is an extremely common private sector thing as well. Hell a lot of open source resources are available on it. It's not overly complicated or difficult. Undergrad comp sci major stuff.

Is that right? I know about NLP. But my understanding is that Chomsky has proposed something much bigger. This is long but absolutely fascinating, about Chomsky's bizarre linguistics career: http://radicalanthropologygroup.org/sites/default/files/pdf/pub_chomsky_politics_science.pdf

An unsupervised program for parsing any language is definitely much harder. And I'm not an expert in unsupervised grammar parsing. But it's definitely something the private sector utilizes, although probably only applied to languages it's profitable to apply it to. But once you have the parsing down, chat bots to reply aren't particularly difficult.

Great true quote, but Chomsky definitely likes to pretend that his ideology is not within the spectrum of acceptable opinion. He likes to pretend socialism and progressivism is fringe. Also likes to pretend that the spectrum of acceptable opinion doesn't shift leftwards year after year with few exception.

The USA, Republicans and Democrats is extreme right, and has only been going more and more extreme right since Reagan. What planet do you live on where the USA is socialist?

Incorrect. Leftism has conquered our society and choked out all forms of right wing position from everything but business.

You live in an insane, convoluted world if you think the current level of leftist dominion is “right wing”.

Don’t worry, it’ll get corrected soon. That Overton window just can’t stay still.

If you think the USA is leftist you are insane.

OK, you're both misunderstanding each other. Who's talking about American politics and who's talking about the American people? It seems as if the American people are moving left on political standing, whereas politics is moving right.

"You live in an insane, convoluted world if you think the current level of leftist dominion is “right wing”."

That implies he thinks leftism rules in the USA. Not just that the opinions of the people are changing.

Stop assuming what he might be implying and instead focus on making your own comments so clear that it would be impossible for them to be misunderstoodby anyone.

..... mmmhmmmmm

This comment is far too sensible. Pretty ironic string of comments given the topic of this post, though. Sad, actually. For what it's worth I think you're correct, clarity is key. People are quick to be defensive when they take differing opinions as personal attacks.

American society and people are inherently leftist

Maybe, but the USA is ruled by a right wing oligarchy.

Then why haven't you had a leftist president in decades?

A 2018 "moderate" would have been a far-left extremist of 1918. And someone with moderate 2018 views will likely be seen as far-right in as little as 20 or 30 years.

As the zeitgeist moves ever leftwards, even liberals who stand still will become seen as "conservatives" of the future.

In 1918 there was an actual communist party in the US. And a Moderate would be way to the right than candidates such as FDR, Eisenhower, JFK and even Nixon

A lot of communist policies that were considered looney and radical even 50 years ago are considered mainstream and acceptable to debate now, if they are not currently implemented and accepted by many. "Universal basic income," for example. You would have been laughed out of the room if you had seriously proposed such a thing.

Universal Basic income was defended by Milton Friedman around 40 years ago. Which other policies?

Nixon tried to pass universal healthcare as a republican. Both parties defended unions. The state believed in limiting the size of banks as well as their ability to speculate in both parties. The people believed there shouldbt be unlimited donations from corporations to politicians.

All those policies used to be thought as rational and now are extreme left wing for Americans. How is that a tilt to the left?

Both Milton Friedman and Richard Nixon are left of center, so I'm not sure what bringing up two liberals proves. Capitalism (particularly the laissez Faire, free market stuff) is the stuff of liberalism. Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson. These are "Classical liberals," as in they were the left-wing of their time. But "Classical liberals" today are our right wing.

In fact, anarcho-capitalism is about as right wing as you can get while still being left of center. Libertarianism just left of that, then Classical liberalism, neoliberalism from right to left.

Who is farther right: Richard Nixon or Charlemagne? The Bush's or the Stewart's? Donald Trump or Julius Caesar?

Milton Friedman left of center? Come on, man. He is vilified by pretty much all the left. He supported Pinochet, established neoliberalism in Chile and supported it around the world. That's the opposite of center left. He believed in even less government interference than Adam Smith refers to in the Wealth of Nations.

You measure the left-right spectrum in the present. Or I could say that an anarcho-capitalist is really a leftist because he was in the times of feudalism.

Anarcho capitalism is not as right wing, Fascism could also be on the extreme left. It's not socialism-capitalism. It includes conservatism, the idea of who should have power, etc...

Libertarianism can exist in the left wing spectrum too. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Libertarian_socialism

As well as most types of anarchism. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchy

You can't compare Richard Nixon to Charlemagne in present terms. But if you could compare, Charlemagne was more left wing in his time. As well as Caesar than Trump. But you measure the spectrum according to the time you live, not however you like or else it becomes useless.

Nobody practices or defends classic liberalism anymore. At least not before Stuart Mill's classic liberalism, which shares many ideas with neoliberalism. It's useless to place it in an spectrum in the last century.

You measure the left-right spectrum in the present. But you measure the spectrum according to the time you live, not however you like or else it becomes useless.

This is a good observation, but this is where I disagree. While words do sometimes change their meanings over time, and I am not saying that they do not, it's dangerous and downright subversive, nearly Orwellian, to define these politically charged labels based solely on the popular sentiments of the times in which we live without putting them in a historical context. Doing this is exactly what the Chomsky quote is talking about: one is the effect of the other, I'd have to think about which is the cart and which is the horse.

I'm not arguing about Obama being to the left of Bush. I'm arguing about the original Chomsky quote about the narrow window that is the spectrum of ideas that is acceptable to debate.

Think of a number line. 5 is less than 6. We are freely open to debate any number between 5 and 6. Maybe Chomsky is a 4.9 or a 5.1. Trump is maybe a 5.7 or 5.8. A half century ago we were debating numbers between 6 and 7. Two centuries ago we were debating numbers between 9 and 10. Whether or not there is a concerted effort or conspiracy to drag the debate to lower numbers over time, or if it's something of a feature (or bug) inherent of the current system is up for debate.

Socialism has been clearly blocked from public discussion in most of the world. That's not a natural change, it was done on the media

And yes, historical context is important. That's why you can't compare people from feudal times to the spectrum now.

I don't understand how your answer supports placing Friedman as a leftist

Are you a socialist? Or a Marxist? What I am describing is the dialectic - practically confirming it. Marx was not hesitant to compare feudal times, describing the transition of which to democracy, to capitalism, to socialism, as "progress leftwards" to the eventual goal or telos of communism. (although I disagree with the notion that this dialectic is entirely materialistic in nature.)

If a moderate centrist person hopped in a time machine from 1918 to 2018, they would come out the other side a far-right winged person even if their beliefs did not change.

This is not particular of the past century and I don't mean to portray it as such. It's just that we are all more familiar with the 20th century than earlier ones.

But even looking at just communists of 100 years ago compared to communists of today. A 2018 communist would consider a 1918 communist reactionary. Pro-gun, pro-military ww2 veterans, anti-gay, worked in a coal mine, etc. (accurately describes the right wing of today). About their only similarities would be that they're poor and anti-christian.

Ignoring the racism a centrist person in 1945 would come out more to the right than in was back then. Your argument doesn't hold

ignoring the racism

Did you get a free shampoo with that conditioning?

We had two: Clinton (who was more central-left) and Obama (a little more further left than Clinton)

Both are considered right wing in the rest of the world. The US spectrum is asymmetrical to the right.

Clinton is specially really right wing

Only on foreign policy. She center left on markets even by European standards and very left on social issues by anywhere’s standards.

Bill Center left on markets? He negotiated more free trade agreements than most president's, including NAFTA. He let the union power go down and permitted multiple corporation mergers which would never happen in Europe. He didn't support universal healthcare

Socially he is more to the left than the average republican but didn't do much. He created the stop and frisk which is pretty much racist, supported building a fence, had an interventionist military policy.

It's almost like young people are on the left and as they grow up those ideas become more mainstream so the entire world continues to shift left, but the US is skewed to the right of that for many reasons.

You're comparing the US to the rest of the world, other commenter is simply saying that the US continues to shift to the left every year. I'm going to go ahead and take a wild guess that generational differences play a huge role in that, and it's easy to see why that is, and why the world continues to move in that direction.

Just curious, if America has actually been taken over and dragged hard left, what are some contrasting nations that aren't hardcore left wing? Seeing as just about every single developed nation I can think of views the USA as to the right of themselves, I'm having a hard time understanding your perspective. Perhaps Egypt, and lately India (altho they have more socialized institutions than us) are in various ways right of America, but who do you have in mind?

You're on to it. Keep thinking about it. I'll give you a hint: America has not been "taken over and dragged hard left," unless you go back to around 1776. America dragged the rest of the world to the far-left.

I'm trying not to come across as condescending or facetious.

...NPRK?

Leftism conquered society? Leftism is about giving power to the people below.

There are no unions anymore, wages are down, people have less control over corporations and politicians, wars are still on the verge for resources, globalism is decreasing.

How can you say leftism conquered society? You may be confusing it with social liberalism.

This is exactly what Chomsky's quote is about. The VERY NARROW level of discourse puts someone like Trump, Bush, or Reagan on the right or "far right," when in a historical context, they are both left of center, albeit not as left of center as Obama or Sanders.

its the 21st century though, nobody cares if Bush Jr. was to the left of some random tsar from centuries ago or some shit...

You're absolutely correct! Now, who would benefit from people not realizing or caring that Bush is actually left of center historically, compared to a monarchy or a czar?

People who want to push society leftwards.

Exactly

Take a moment to consider and realize that Europe is traditional left.

You know, strict gun control, socialized health care, high tax rates, powerful police, etc etc...

America's "left" is "conservative-lite". The extreme left in the US is basically European centrist. Meanwhile the extreme left in Europe are literal socialists. There are people in the US who think they believe in socialism but they're just very uneducated.

they arent extreme right you dope

They are. The usa is one of the most right wing governments in the world.

your brains fried kid turn the switch off for good

very smart answer. The educational system is clearly working

Let me guess? You are a trumptard?

no i dont like conservatives. Trump is too soft

Reagan was the typical neoliberal. Even the "right wing" of American politics is "Classical liberalism."

Instead of trying to refute your point, angry leftists mash the little down arrow next to your doubleplusungood words.

I get down voted almost every time I post. Don't worry, I don't take it personally lol. These commie fuck will get what's coming to them one day.

No. This is wrong. The Republican party is solidly right wing and not extreme right/fascist. The Democrat party is at worst, centre-left. They are not both extremely conservative parties. You're spreading bullshit.

I would consider Hillary Clinton on center right. Sanders is left leaning, but not anywhere near the actual left.

If your idea of being left is communism, then yes. Sanders is social democrat and solidly within the left wing. He is not just "left leaning." Hillary is more of a populist centrist. She does seem to lean left on most issues/policy, though.

Maybe in the states, but it has all moved so far to the right. Even fascism has a bunch of things about health care for everyone. Not going to call that left wing either, now would you?

Even by the standards of Europe my responses would stay the same. I would argue the opposite in that most right wing parties are right-centre in Europe. While their liberal parties tend to be similar to the Democratic Party in America.

That last bit is certainly true. They're right wing parties, though. Consistently against everything the true left is about.

I mean, you can argue that, by saying what's true now is different than from the past. Sure if you want to argue that, then you're right. But the fact is, the left in the past was about giving control to the workers. Labour parties commonly are not really about the workers anymore, despite the name. They do everything in name of the worker, but for some reason keep the problems of the workers intact, like private property.

That whole discussion has been removed and now it's about things that shouldn't even be discussed in the first place. That's the shift to the right. Not talking about socialism anymore, but instead on how to survive capitalism as a worker. This shift is quite obvious.

You're not even wrong that most right wing parties are close to the center. But that's not the issue. It's the fact that left wing parties are far closer to these center parties.

The left, economically, is socialism. When left of the center doesn't even entertain the idea of socialism, how are they left wing? Right wing is capitalism, left wing is socialism. How is left/center still capitalism? That makes no sense to me.

Socialism-capitalism is not an on-off switch. Centre-left would be people who believe in moderately to highly regulated capitalism. Furthermore, economic policy is not the only policy to consider. Social programs and their funding is also a way to rate where someone is politically. I rate Bernie Left Wing since he believes in a lot of social programs and highly regulated capitalism. Simply because you're not fully supportive of a socialist economic system doesn't mean you can't be left wing. I think you're thinking in too black and white of terms. Either socialism or capitalism. There are nuances to regulated capitalism and mixed economies.

It's funny you mention nuance, because according to what you just wrote, there's socialism on the far left, without any nuance whatsoever and just capitalism anything right from that (including the moderate left).

So you're basically saying there's no difference between socialism and communism, there's no nuance there. There's just nuance in capitalism and you can be left wing and pro capitalism.

You're not 100% wrong, of course not, you're not an idiot, I can see that. Most of what you're saying is true. The thing is, this is all part of the shift of politics towards the right wing.

I also have to comment on your idea that highly regulated capitalism is a left wing principle. It isn't. You can be for or pro regulation within the right wing. Libertarian would be against it. Fascism would be for it.

Same goes for the left. Libertarian (left, as it originally was) is against regulation whereas those leaning towards the ideas of establishing communism are very pro regulations.

It's not a left/right thing. It's an authoritarian or libertarian thing. These nuances have all disappeared lately. Nowadays you would consider Hillary to be center left. Which in my opinion is ridiculous. Her policies are eerily close to what right wing parties (albeit that they're close to the center) are saying. In certain areas she's actually further right.

This is mostly because the DNC is the further left in the two relevant political parties in the states. Take The Netherlands for example, where a far right party like FvD is further right than PVV, which are mostly further right than VVD. Then you've got D66, which are further left than Clinton's policies are, but still considered right wing. Then you've got the labour party, which is considered left but often criticized for being too willing to accept right wing ideas, mind you they're way more left wing than Clinton is. Then you've got a whole bunch of parties that are much further to the left than that. GroenLinks is left wing, but they entertain right wing ideas because those ideas still fit in with the actual left wing ideas. Then you've got a few parties that are left wing by current narrative, without actually being left wing. The type of party I'm against, because identity politics and immigration have nothing to do with left/right wing. The furthest left is the Socialist Party which I criticize for not actually saying anything about abolishing private property, which is the core idea of Socialism. Another indicator that the political spectrum has moved to the right as a whole.

I didn't bother mentioning extreme leftism (communism and all it's flavors) or extreme rightism (fascism and national socialism). I didn't mean to conflate socialism with communism. I think I may have just ended up arguing semantics, though.

As far as regulated capitalism goes, the more regulation you support the more left you are and bice versa. Of course right wing supports some regulations. Anarcho-capitalist are about the only group that support no regulation or government at all.

That's just wrong, though.

Clinton is pretty left on social issues, solidly centrist on economic issues, and center right on foreign policy.

Incorrect. Dems and Repubs are just slightly different shades of FAR RIGHT economics (NEOliberalism) and EXTREME authoritarian social issues.

https://i.imgur.com/1peIWYG.png

Republican and Democrat politicians engage in bullshit like:

• EXTREMELY deregulated market and bank economics. NEOLIBERALS (far right).

• Removing/reducing funding of social programs OR injecting crony capitalist corporate interference to make the social programs inefficient and expensive (i.e. privatization: using our taxes "for profit" which is extremely right wing and crony capitalist too).

• Warmongers....need I say more? NEOCONSERVATIVES (these are far right warmongers specifically/war profiteering).

• Democrat party colluded with corporate CNN/MSM and shat on Bernie 24/7. Bernie's policies were only of FDR style Social Democracy which is almost American centrist.

Yet Fox was saying "OMG 90% TAX RATE" when it was much less than for the TOP tax rate let alone the normal tax brackets most people fall into. CNN favored extremist TPP Soros WALLSTREET shill CLINTON. The Dem election was rigged in favor of Clinton. MSM is not left wing, centrist or moderate right and neither are the parties they shill for. CORPORATIONS (controlled by banksters) are EXTREME capitalists, not moderate in any way.

• Obamacare is crony capitalist, why didn't Obama go for single payer healthcare? BECAUSE HE'S NOT LEFT WING. Even NEOliberal Europe has some shitty form of single payer, (some countries have the crappy privatized form, some might have the legit socialized form) but America doesn't even have that despite having it during FDR's time. Instead Obamacare/Repub alternative, they're both corporate shits for profit at our expensive. They don't give a fuck about us.

• STATE SURVEILLANCE. NSA authoritarian shit. Death penalty too. War on drugs, private prison system, false flags like 9/11, etc. etc. Does this shit sound like left vs right? Or far right vs far right? Makes you think the Deep State theories have something to them.

Since Reagan, the bastard NEOliberals and NEOconservatives have gained power. Trickle down economics bullshit. 30 years or so since then, the gap between extreme rich and extreme poor has only gotten much bigger.

The elites control these parties, please stop defending them. They're only after profit and therefore control: FULL NWO fascism/feudalist centralized control:

https://i.imgur.com/bNz2DHP.jpg

You don't know what feudalism means. Don't use that word.

You come across as extremely conspiratorial that some class of people out there have complete control. In reality, chaos reigns and people only delude themselves into believing someone or some group has complete control. They don't. They couldn't. Keeping a secret between two people is hard enough, let alone thousands. You have conflated corporate influence and donations as some sort of illuminati-esque conspiracy. Yes, the rich and influential do have lots of power. No, they do not have much ability to influence outside factors or individual decision making.

Secondarily, your scale makes little to no sense. Hitler advocated social programs distributed along ethnic lines. Only Germans or others deemed acceptable were allowed the social programs. That's certainly not centrist thought. The racial laws and policies to jail, castrate, take rights, take property, and ultimately exterminate undesirables is far from centrist or centre-right. The fact that this graph rates Hitler more leftist and only slightly more authoritarian than most American politicians is laughable. This seriously comes off as a bad joke. You're insane.

No, I know what feudalism is, and don't tell me what to do. Ironic you imply me as ignorant and yet you claim the corporate parties that engage in false flag attacks, globalist economics, insane deregulation, anti-worker rhetoric, etc. as normal. They're extremists and hence we have the gap between the super poor and super rich getting even larger. What's moderate about that? Are you in the wrong sub? Defending warmongers and wallstreet?

I'm conspiratorial? Yeah what sub is this? I didn't imply full control, but certainly disproportionate control and hence why the state of things today are miserable despite the potential for change. They're just trying to increase it to full slavery levels.

Hitler was extremely authoritarian and so your statement about him isn't contradictory to what my post said. I never said he was centrist. His economics were slightly right of center but the authoritarianism reveals his corporate cronyism, mass surveillance and racial shit. I don't know why you're trying to derail.....it's something shills tend to do on this sub. Hmmm. His economics were not that crazy, far right NEOliberalism is crazy. But he was an extremely authoritarian maniac. If you can't even look at the American NSA state surveillance, false flags, private federal reserve, wars for profit, basic corruption, rigged primaries, etc. and just resort to calling me insane because you'd rather not burden yourself with the thought about the corporate fascists who want to take over, maybe you should re-evaluate your worldview or attitude or something.

If you want to put your head in the sand while there's a hostile takeover, be my guest. NEOliberalism has caused major damage in the last few decades and if we ignore it it's going to get hella worse. But I'm not falling for that shit. We have extreme capitalists with extreme amounts of power and governments are infiltrated with secret societies, warmongers and banksters. Be aware or ignore it at your own peril. I'm not going to waste my time further with shills and ignorant people. The left vs right spectrum is outdated. Most accurate form is two axes. Economics and social issues.

You don't know what feudalism is. You equated it to centralized authority. Feudalism is the definition of decentralized rule. You're a retarded alt-righter

Lol what? I'm a center left libertarian socialist, I don't believe in alt right bullshit (much of it is misguided bullshit at least). Authoritarians consolidate control and try to centralize the economy. Feudal times were pretty authoritarian, no?

Anyway, I'm not saying "de-centralized" economics are necessarily a good idea by itself....it would be good as long as you have reasonable amounts of regulation. Decentralized doesn't become benevolent if there's zero regulation (competing or allied mafia corporations would just destroy anyone in their way). Hence, I just suggest removing money from politics and then our politicians will stop being corrupt retards and start thinking about the common man instead of the corporations, when deciding their economic policies.

Preach man, Sam Harris taught me how Chomsky is a leftist apologist.

Sam is unfortunately an idiot when it comes to political matters.

Chomsky is a libertarian in the left wing way. Apologist? As if the left has something to apologize for

You realise that Bernie isnt even a socialist right? Thats the whole point. Bernie's policies at least are social democratic.

Bernie's policies at least are social democratic.

Bernie's policies at best are social democratic. :)

Socialism kind of implies the abolition of private property. This needs a definition of where personal property (allowed under socialism) ends, and private property takes over.

You could put a dollar amount on that. Like, say, 5 million USD. Everything over that amount is not legal to own. When you hit that amount you have "won" the mini capitalist game inside socialism.

Not having "the abolition of private property" in your program makes you a social democrat at best. They argue for a little socialist game (of income redistribution), inside capitalism.

Socialism is fringe in almost every country in the world. What is discussed as socialism almost everywhere it's not socialism.

"...but Chomsky definitely likes to pretend that his ideology is not within the spectrum of acceptable opinion. He likes to pretend socialism and progressivism is fringe."

That's kinda funny. He's so fringe they were teaching him in my college courses at one of the most mainstream Universities on the entire west coast in classes like Writing and Journalism for Advertising 101, more than 2 decades ago. I learned about him through an International Studies discipline.

Well he did pretty much develop the field of linguistics.

Well that would make sense. I don't remember how what we read from him, ("Manufacturing Consent" was one book), pertained to what I was supposed to be learning about international studies. I also didn't really follow Chomsky himself at all, especially after college. I just get trickle down in places like this sub from other people who prop him up or shoot him down. Whether wingman_joe is right, and Chomsky does think himself fringe or whether it's just some of his angstier fans that do, I honestly don't know. It's a good way to sell books.

He always came across as long-winded, circle-talk to me. There's no doubt he's smart, but he knows his craft and how to squeeze every ounce of attention from his reader by writing entire paragraphs and chapters filled with academic descriptions and big words to get across a message that could easily have been summarized with the first and maybe last sentence of any given paragraph he wrote.

Guess, I'm kinda doing the same thing. I could have just said I find him to be long-winded.

Anyway, my opinion of the man doesn't mean much. I was too stoned to remember half the time. At least I managed to keep my drinking to black-out levels in check until the weekend came around.

Like I said, I just kinda thought it was funny.

He wrote a book on anarchism. You think anarchism is even remotely acceptable? Even outside of the USA. Take a look at France, Germany, The Netherlands. Why don't they have an anarchist party?

Oh, because anarchism is against the state? So is communism, but we've seen plenty of Communist Parties. Sure the Dutch one disbanded in 1990, but the party did exist.

Read his book On Anarchism. It's a great read and a great introduction to the ideas. You'll see just how far off the spectrum of acceptable opinion he really is, even if he isn't necessarily a typical anarchist.

is noam part of the conspiracy or not?

The conspiracy?

is noam part of keeping the sheeple asleep, or waking them up?

both, it's gatekeeping

I feel like he has a really large body of work. Some stuff I agree with, and some I don't.

Some of his books really opened my eyes to subjects like the media and US meddling in foreign affairs though.

I guess I wouldn't dismiss his entire body of work out of hand without actually taking a look yourself and making an informed decision from your own perspective.

noam hasn't talked about 9/11 being a zionists plot of terrorize the us citizenship into support zionists/oil/defense contract interests in the middle east, yet, however.

While I don't agree with Zionist principles or methods, I don't think 9/11 as a conspiracy can be completely explained away as purely a Zionist plot.

oil/defense contract interests with the us government had no problem with cooperating.

but the original idea comes from zionists trying to break up the middle east. that's why we attacked iraq for saudi terrorists based in afghanistan.

The US attempted to destabilize the Middle East since Jimmy Carter. And that includes destabilizing things in Israel. Keep the Middle East at war. Keep the oil prices low.

The US attempted to destabilize the Middle East since Jimmy Carter.

and the zionists have been preaching how muslim terrorists hate israel because isreal 'represents the west' since at 1979.

And that includes destabilizing things in Israel.

when did we ever not support israel?

Keep the oil prices low.

we never invaded the saudis. or many other oil rich nations.

We put Saudis on the petrodollar. That’s why we support them.

I just said the US destabilizes the Middle East, not directly invades. Libya, Syria, Iraq-Iran war, Arab Spring, install dictators. It’s not that hard. Play all sides. Enforce the petrodollar. Get fracking, offshore drill or go low emissions if they get too successful.

There was a real fear that so much wealth is concentrated in the ground in the Middle East that they could compete globally and be an economic threat. That didn’t happen because of war resulting in unstable markets, brain drain, and resources being spent on war or security instead of economy (Israel has this weakness).

The Middle East is not allowed to flourish.

There was a real fear that so much wealth is concentrated in the ground in the Middle East that they could compete globally and be an economic threat.

wat? who the fuck cares besides zionists fearful of israel being dominated?

America and Europe care. A lot. Everything America does globally both politically and economically is too keep their global economic dominance. They aren’t just going to ignore trillions of wealth in the ground. It should be obvious they haven’t.

There is actually an interesting correlation between the founding of Israel and the beginnings of US attempts at destabilizing the Middle East.

I'm no expert on historical affairs, but through some light researching it seems that the US didn't really begin attempts at destabilization until several years after the founding of Israel (05/14/1948 according to a google search). The first instance I know about of US meddling in Middle Eastern affairs is the CIA backed coup of Iran in 1953

Aside from Netanyahu bypassing Obama and going to Congress a couple years back, I'm having a difficult time finding a time when the US has destabilized Israel in any way.

To be fair before that period the French and British had most of the Middle East under their control, and before that they were the ones doing the destabilizing. The begnnings of US meddling in the region is less to do with Israel being formed and more with the asendency of the US as a superpower following WW2, launching what was essentially a global campaign of meddling in countries in order to protect this status.

Very much so, check out Meet Noam Chomsky, Academic Gatekeeper

Of course his above quote is still true and worthwhile. This is the gatekeeper MO.

do you think he's aware of 9/11 actually being a conspiracy?

for sure, he's one of the smartest guys in the world. and tye best gatekeeper would have to know exactly what's off limits.

well he's obviously not smart enough to recognize that maintaining the current status quo of lies and deceit will only end in human annihilation.

Or you could do what reddit has done.

Limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion by literally banning one side of the political coin from having any reaching voice whatsoever.

While simultaneously giving free and unlimited access of the front page to the other side of the political coin.

Shadowban and delete the comments of anyone pro-Trump while allowing thousands of comments daily that spread an anti-Trump message.

Create a manufactured atmosphere of hate and actually reward people who brand other users as "T_D" like branding a witch in Salem.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think it matters who the president is, who the congressmen are, who the senators are, or what color their ties are.

It's two wings of the same damn bird.

The Donald is about as real as a WWE character. He's the fall guy for the coming collapse.

Hijacking to ask if anyone belongs to any good online conspiracy communities since this one has unfortunately been overrun. Pls DM me.

Same. Someone awesome make a list 😭

Im right with you boss. We need to organize an exodus from Reddit but where? There are so many conspiracy deniers now.

Yeah shit's fucking crazy weren't there bots on this sub or some shit lmfao wtf

I wish I could tell you. This sub was my first exposure to a lot of this stuff, and now the astroturf and shill armies have turned it into "The Donald This" vs "Hillary That".

ConspiracyII is slightly better, a little out there, kind of quiet, too small to bother targeting en mass so far.

Anywhere there is not a vote system in the comments.

Many forums and other sites cater to conspiracy.

I'd put a list up, but there are certain users we don't want finding those sites.

Pls DM me

Could you pm me? Thank you!

Could you pm me? Thank you!

Dude if you got any answers, pls PM me. Halp

Me too please!

This is exactly what the Anti-MSM screechers are doing. Not the MSM. Anti-MSM people scream fake news at everything they disagree with irrelevant of accuracy.

Most people don't want to think, and just rationalize things to agree with preconceived biases.

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it." -Henry Ford

It's called the Overton Window.

Thanks. Condenses the idea from one sentence to one phrase. I will be spreading this.

Only mainstream conspiracies allowed. LOL

It's a worthless The_Donald spin off

Why do you think that? Every comment I see is pro Hilary and is heavily upvoted comapared to pro trump

Have you been watching this sub for very long?

Try and find a post that openly accuses Trump of any conspiracies. You'll be downvoted into oblivion.

But you'll find plenty on Hillary, Bill, Obama, both Bush families etc., but Trump? Nope. Downvoted into oblivion.

The conspiracies involving Trump are all weak and or over-blown.

The president is a complete fucking idiot and egomaniac. But is that a conspiracy? Is Russia even really a conspiracy? Why is that more important than the last 20 years of an evil military industrial complex?

Idk man, your comment seems like the exact thing that is the problem here.

Waaaaah, What about Trump?

Boo fuckin hoo. Focus on the real shit.

I’m going to downvote you. Not because I disagree but because I was told to come here and do so.

Hey man, at least you are honest about it

We're all Russian puppets and bots, apparently.

I see the left get called bots and puppets too.

I actually see some of the least "bot" looking discussion on here.

T_d happened. These two-bit mongoloids saw conspiracy as some kind of kindred spirit. They both deconstruct realities after all, t_d just enjoys reconstructing it to fit some political narrative in their eternal holy war vs the "libtards." Unless you get rid of every one of these anti-intellectual bottom-feeding in-breeding dreck humanity then this sub will continue to resemble its lowest common denominator.

This is why Donald won.

He didn’t win. He was selected.

for all our sakes i hope you are wrong. but you are probably right.

Per the theme of this thread. I was promptly downvoted

As someone who supports neither side of the 2 party distraction…

If as you say Trump supporters see themselves as kindred spirits with conspiracy theorists…who the fuck is in here down voting all the organic conspiracy topics and comments?

As long as it fits their narrative. You missed that part. They're looking for a lot of validation in Pizzagate and shit. Ton of projection there.

My god you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about yet here you are, spouting off opinion as fact. Shameful. Lol at projection. Look in the mirror.

Just saying they bent over backwards to disprove that Roy Moore was a sexual predator and yet get huge boners as soon as they hear about 🍕

Right they get huge boners when they hear about pedophiles getting exposed, and that's a bad thing? Or do you believe pizzagate is somehow boiled down to a restaurant in DC? Roy Moore is a legit pervert predator, but it also turned out to be true that she faked the signature... So what then? By the way i dont give two shits about this roy moore guy. He was just a way to take the attention off bigger fish getting the limelight shone upon their misdeeds and sexual deviancy...

Why do you think around the election scandal season of the century r/conspiracy got divided, political, and bullshit heavy? It is too significant to be natural. Now i have to sift through repetitive crap theories to read interesting arguments with decent sources that got little love from the community.

Divergence from the typical standard deviation you might say

Not sure why people argue over the left and right. You have no choice when it comes to the presidency. Just an illusion of choice.

I hate that I had to scroll down this far to find this mindset. I was really hoping that would be common ground in this sub.

Trusting blindly seems very counter-productive to a conspiracy subreddit.

Your comment seems the most appropriate for this subreddit, and it's shocking to me that it's not higher up.

I have my political biases, but I really try to leave them at the door in a community like this. But it's gotten so extreme on here that it just feels like an extension of political subreddits. It's not about disproving who you disagree with, it's about the conspiracies.

Left and Right are about a lot more than the presidency, or than about the democrats or the republicans.

Please enlighten me as to what you mean.

I think conspiracies are just dead at this point it's time to move on to your local state approved news channel and plug back in to the matrix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G40k_8SMOGo

Imagine how left out they would feel if we all quietly joined a new sub. Or atleast pretended to. Just something about the conversation continuing without them coming in to take a giant shit on everyone really feels good.

So, what your saying is... There seems to be some sort of conspiracy going on here. one that is actively hijacking this sub in order to promote chaos within the community?

there should be an investigation into this inflaming of tensions. id love to see somebody indicted over these vile efforts!

So what you’re saying is that whenever an online community devolves due to poor content and stupid users, a shadowy figure is behind it all? And not that the users are disorganized, petty, and dumb?

Found the spook or subconscious spook mouthpiece.

found the pro-government tool

You got me scurries off

Popularity

Welcome to the new method of shaping consensus and public opinion: by deploying troll/astroturf armies.

If they did it to TD, they're going to do it here

This is the answer.

Yeah, I've seen the future and it sucks hard.

don't give up

#god

I haven't given up. BUT I have given up on this forum.

i stick around in hopes to spread memes whoever i can.

This sub went to hell when they banned memes.

you can't ban memes. all ideas are memes.

don't let your memes be memes.

wat?

you do realize the term 'meme' is older than the internet ... ?

marshall mcluhan or some other media visionary type came up with that shit right? I'm older than the internet too. can't be arsed to look it up.

you mean richard dawkins?

that works too i guess.

memes are ideas/actions/behaviors that spread socially. internet memes are just one form. things like stereotypes are memes. gender relations can be memes. customs/politeness are memes. our intellegences runs off memes basically.

I have given up on this forum.

That's a blatant lie!

The hovercrafts are cool, but the air is so putrid.

Lootin, robbin, carryin a coffin.

I need to re-read Diamond Age -- abolition of states, domination of corporations, swarms of competing lethal nano-bots, etc.

Sounds like a libertarians wet dream

Luckily, that's your future and not everyone else's. There's an infinite amount of parallel futures and you will continue going to sucky one if you don't improve your situation yourself.

Please tell me: does Jennifer Lawrence actually do anything?

Things were so much better when they simply used to beam the exact same opinion to everybody via free-to-air TV and we had no method of real-time long-distance interaction.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin

This is exactly it. Before the internet the only way you could have interactions with people like this sub you could only do it at the library like once a month with probably some of the weirdest creepiest people you'd ever meet. I mean I remember when there was just 13 channels so the only place you'd hear about anything were from one of them.

Yep. But people are so desperate to feel like victims they will complain abut the internet. Insanity.

I would add /s to your post .....you know because of idiocy.

Aka anything that goes against a biased agenda is obviously an astroturf or troll army. Yeah.. it has nothing to do with with that so many people on here are partisan plebes trying to push an agenda. Standing up to misinformation = troll/astroturf apparently.

The troll activity only ignites the fire.

Their function is to make the useful idiots act or react.

Obviously, I don't generalize, but look at the school shooting topic and the manufactured outcry to ban guns. It's so blatant, it's not even funny anymore.

Best way to reach people is to call them plebs. You're definitely helping awaken the masses and not self-aggrandizing at all.

i don't even they specifically deploy it. i think memetic control is just working it's magic.

so let us counter it

#god

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

This looks like a bot post. Are you sure you’re not a bot? Do you feel your feelings or are you programmed to ‘think’ you feel them?

(I kid, I kid.)

I definitely question my sanity when I use this website. For example, I get hit multiple times an hour by comments loudly proclaiming that some subreddit called "T_D" is ruining reddit.

Which is funny because this "T_D" subreddit has been banned from the front page for months now. So I am not sure how they are spreading their message to the rest of reddit.

While people on this website scream about the "T_D" menace, I am bombarded by multiple front page posts per hour that aggressively try to plant the seed in my mind that Donald Trump and his followers are the anti-Christ.

I click into subreddits that have nothing to do with politics and I am hit by submissions upvoted into the thousands that paint Donald Trump and his supporters as the anti-Christ.

I enter comment sections about topics that have nothing to do with politics and I see top comments upvoted into the thousands that paint Trump and his supporters as the anti-Christ.

I browse these comment sections by new and controversial and I regularly see comments saying "X user posts in T_D" and these comments are rewarded and the offending commenter gets berated, belittled, and downvoted as if he/she was the anti-Christ.

This is the reddit that I have been seeing every single day for months now and while I am witnessing this with my eyes and my brain, an extremely loud voice continues to cut through assuring me that members of "T_D" are systematically destroying and "taking over" reddit.

So what should I believe? The loud voice that repeats the same thing over and over about Trump and "T_D" members destroying reddit or what I am actually witnessing: members of the anti-Trump brigade dominating the front page every single time I log in or enter 99% of comment threads.

This is so true. Where is the downvote brigade? Surprised this comment is not downvoted yet?

Where is the downvote brigade?

Why would the donald downvote some post trying their hardest to paint them as underdogs who are unfairly attacked by some mass horde of shills?

I commented on one story from T_D and now anytime I post in a popular sub, the response is always aggressive and includes form version of "you subscribe to T_D (I don't). That tells me all I need to know about you."

For anyone with moderate or conservative views, you just have to accept reddit is not a tolerant place for civil conversation.

I find that kind of behavior extremely disturbing. I saw a person accused of being "a Russian troll" the other day and the person accusing him dropped a link to a comment that user had made.

The comment was literally "Russian girls are hot" as a response to a Russian ice-skater video on the front page.

The user accused of being Russian was downvoted into oblivion and the accuser was gang-upvoted.

That shit is scary.

You guys love to put yourself in a victim roll don't ya?

One wrong comment in your sub and your banned for life there. Maybe you should look at the proof there already is. You want to see proof yet your are too lazy to actively search for it.

One wrong comment in r/"politics" or any of the 15+ anti-Trump subs pushed daily to the front page and you are banned for life. Why do people like you continually pretend it only happens on TD?

And how delusional are you where you think a subreddit named after Donald Trump and formed as a pep-rally for his presidential run, would allow you to enter and shit all over the person the sub is dedicated to?

You cannot do that in ANY sub dedicated to any subject. This concept is so simple that a kindergarten kid could understand it.

Maybe read the rules of a sub before posting in it.

Point is, there aren't rules about down voting just because the users history or you disagree with what they said. The point of down voting was always to encourage higher quality commentary to be at the top of the page. That can't exist when armies from either side just go on the attack without wanting to actually engage the other person.

says the guy who can't even spell a four letter word correctly

"role"

you're welcome

For anyone with moderate or conservative views, you just have to accept reddit is not a tolerant place for civil conversation.

Sorry it's not for anyone. I tried to have a civil discussion in /r/conservative and I was banned immediately, I tried to fact check T_D once, not being a dick, just saying "hey this isn't true, check this article" Boom banned.

I'm sick of people saying that conservatives have it so rough here, I told everyone on politics to cool their roll when the Russia stuff first started coming up in 2016, I was down voted into hell, but I WASN'T BANNED. Same with /r/democrats, I said things against the grain, got down votes but no ban.

I have only been banned in conservative outlets. So when you say having a conservative view on reddit is not for civil discourse, I think it's because they don't allow civil discourse to happen.

You are so terribly correct it's not even funny. It seems to me that the only people that gaslight are the left. And the MSM pays to persuade them but instead of adverts they pay to control what shows up for sites like Reddit. To go with their narrative. That's why even though I don't think Trump is what is right for this country, we shouldn't be focused on "if Melania loves him" and stupid bullshit I see everyday on FP. Every side is wasting their time arguing with one another online as if it'll change anything even if you do change someone's mind. And you don't change someone's mind by downvoting and degrading them with name-calling as if we're elementary again anyway. I've had some of the most understanding, kind, and empathetic views and comments, go ahead, take a look. See how much I get down voted DESPITE being progressive enough to where I say when I'm wrong and/or didn't think about another view that was pointed out. Even when I get attacked, I never cuss anyone and I'm always trying to understand why people see the way they see.

Source: I'm subscribed to both r/politics and r/the_donald because I'm genuinely concerned that it's all a conspiracy and there is a civil war being implemented in our society. Ps.. Everyone is wrong to me. But Trump isn't where your rage needs be focused, he's obviously a ploy, a puppet. Everyone knows the president has no real power. Look at the JFK conspiracy. Let's swallow our pride and figure out what the fuck is really going on. Like the effort y'all put into who's missing on Reddit this week. Cause if we don't all work together how is our country supposed to?

I'm subscribed to both r/politics and r/the_donald because I'm genuinely concerned that it's all a conspiracy and there is a civil war being implemented in our society.

I feel exactly the same way and I am surprised this topic is not being discussed more. It should really be blatantly obvious to anyone paying attention and not brainwashed by party politics that a very real life-threatening civil war is around the corner if people continue to allow themselves to be whipped into angry internet mobs so easily.

Its like they believe that this hate will somehow stay in the digital realm and that it has no connection to real life. Which is fucking absurd. The hate is real and very real consequences are going to come from it.

yep cold wars a bitch

Thank God I'm not the only one. Was expecting to get reamed by an elephant or a donkey.

The Hillary/Democrat/Left shill operation began towards the mid/end of the campaign and it's wayyy more dominant on Reddit now

So many subs are 24/7 Trump bashing with shady voting and no opposing viewpoints

It was in the DNC Leaks that they/Hillary had social media shill operations and also that they could bring in paid/intern/Soros protestors to any needed event

nail on the head

Has it occurred to you that everything you described could be explained by the fact that Trump is severely unpopular amongst the demographic that uses Reddit? Or does it have to be a propaganda brigade conspiracy

Little of column A, little of column B. Reddit's always been mostly left-leaning politically, but when I first started visiting the site there was at least some back and forth debate whenever politics were brought up.

I think it's been a combination of those political groups that have been paying people to astroturf Reddit 24/7 that happen to have the same goals as that Russian troll organization which apparently has been doing the same thing. They've been so loud and so aggressive, that the rest of Reddit's casual users just keep parroting what they see on the front page.

Has it occurred to you that the fact that Trump is severely unpopular amongst the demographic that uses Reddit is because Reddit is exactly where all of these people go to for their worldview?

Has it occurred to you that not everyone on here is American and gives a shit about your politics? I live on the other side of the world and still have to listen to crap about trump on the radio, on the TV and in my newspapers so if I see a post about Trump on 'my' Reddit, be it positive OR negative, ill downvote it. There is no conspiracy guys, people are just sick of the endless rhetoric.

Plenty of Americans also see reddit as a weaponized political machine. We are also fucking sick of it and hate hearing about Trump every five fucking seconds, believe me.

But let be honest, what are you hearing from this site about Trump? Ask yourself. Are they good things or are they overwhelmingly negative? You and I both know its 99% negative. Thats not reality. Thats not how reality works. Thats how weaponized information and propaganda works.

It's also how the media has worked from time immemorial. Good, uplifting stories don't sell.

It's pretty hard to believe you haven't noticed the 'news' has always been 98% negative & then a lighthearted, largely irrelevant story to finish with.

because the content providers had sole Monopoly on reporting events, Reddit removes that, or was supposed to before the astroturfing

It's supposed to, in a perfect world. Such a big public forum was bound to get infiltrated by money though. No way could such an avenue of influence be let slide.

I appreciate I'm preaching to the choir.

most of us feel this way, some people just let the hate that they have from the presidential distraction cloud their more long term and realistic threats.

even on 4chan you can see the shills and how effective they are at manipulating groupthink- turning libertarians/democratic socialists into national socialists and communists.

I still hold the limited federal democratic republic to a high regard. that's what they are most keen on, making us see the faults in our awesome system.

most amazing is how quickly the republican concept of states rights has evaporated into a dream of a national government.

Except that compliant NWO politicians generally don’t receive that treatment. Or if they do, its through weak and insignificant attacks based on the 2-party system. What we are seeing consist of real attacks against someone who might pose a threat to the NWO staus quo.

I genuinely think if the NWO considered him a threat he'd have been suicided long before now.

This guy is his own worst enemy. He can't keep his mouth shut/ego in check. Whether it be on twitter or whatever, he has no idea what it takes to be a leader in world politics.

I'm from the UK btw. I have no horse in that race although I still don't fancy a nuclear winter.

I can understand that point of view, but I think attempting to assassinate the President carries great risk and could even potentially expose the NWO to the general public. Perhaps they see that as a last resort and would rather try to conrol him, contain him, impeach him, or otherwise suppress him first. Or maybe he really is just another puppet, but I find that hard to believe based on the leaked emails and other thing.

No it's not. This is a frothy-mouthed crazy-eyed straight up all out assault on a dude who everyone probably wouldn't have even really liked if not for how very much he was disliked by the fakest people in our society.

Are you saying we'd all like the guy if we weren't being influenced by fake people?

lol I'm not 100% sure if that's what you meant but if it was, then you're crazy & totally bought into the 'fake news' bs sound bite. Regardless of what you think of the media, he's clearly an egotistical idiot & you only need to listen to what comes out his mouth & what he writes online to realise this.

No I was saying everyone probably wouldn't have liked Trump if the worst people in the world didn't all attack him like they were afraid of him.

TBF, everyone is attacking him for the stupid shit he's getting up to.

Fair comment though, I know what you mean now.

Ummm. What? It's totally possible for some one to fuck up and then choose not to change their behavior and repeatedly do those actions.

I can imagine several figures in past and recent history that would be negative 99% of the time.

Leaders involved in genocide or mass suppression of their people could be some examples.

Congrats on being oblivious to the fact that the media has complete control over the context of the information you receive.

And comparing Trump to "leaders involved in genocide or mass suppression of their people" only confirms this.

You are the one that said news/reality can't be 99% of the time negative. I'm refuting it. And what's a better example than that? What percentage of time should Hitler be referred to negatively and what percentage positively to fit into your reality?

Sometimes the negatives really do outweigh the positives. Hitler was a painter so I guess he brought art [positive] into the world. But that is not worth mentioning compared to the atrocities he commited.

The media does have control over the context. But that's why you should read a variety of sources.

If we want to discuss Trump in particular. Can you give me some positive news that you feel has been missed?

Yup Trump is totally the same as Hitler, a guy who murdered millions of people. Totally....

You don't seem to understand the basic concept that all of those clickbait headlines you allowed yourself to swallow have affected you. Had you clicked and actually read any of them you would have seen a very clear pattern of sensationalism, alarmism, and opinion pieces masquerading as journalism.

I have noticed you sidestepped the point.

Are they good things or are they overwhelmingly negative? You and I both know its 99% negative. Thats not reality. Thats not how reality works.

Do you still agree that this is how reality works? Is there no one that you can think of that would receive mostly negative press? Or do you think everyone get 50% positive and 50% negative?

Is there sensationalism. Certainly. But it all depends on what media you subscribe to. Im personally into the more well researched news agencies and not random opinion bloggers.

I would argue that would cause false equivalence in the media. An a debate about climate change we pit the combined knowledge of 100 scientists against a single person who has nothing but his opinion and weigh them fairly.

But that's not really what I'm talking about. I will downvote any of these semi-political-meta-conspiracy threads not because I'm a paid off government shill but because I come to r/conspiracy to read about things like Dyatlov pass, Tamam Shud, UFO's and the like.

That's what Reddit is made for! Upvoting content you like and downvoting content you don't. Chances are if the same content is being downvoted, it's because it's shit content.

Dude im american and i couldnt really care less about these shotty politics.

And there is THE reason why you have shitty politics.

When you don't care about your freedom it will be taken away

I care about the results but ive given up trying to fight the red vs bluebullshit everyone cares sbout. I believe we will not fix the problems in our country until we get rid of party politics and big money. Until that is done i have no use for mainstream political debate.

I am fine with politics in political subs but I come to subs like this one to escape all that crap. I'll upvote decent political threads in political subs and downvote the same stuff in non-political subs.

This bleeding of content between boards gets old pretty quick.

Really? Generally i think r/conspiracy can be pretty political just by its nature. But i do agree about the bleeding content between subs i just consider this sub pretty political.

Yeah, and I do like a good governmental conspiracy as much as the next guy but there seems to be a staggering amount of people with some hair-brained idea that gets 'confirmed' by all the downvotes because they think they came from 'government shills' not simply regular people downvoting their rubbish conspiracy.

Yeah generally i dont upvote or downvote in r/conspiracy i just like to read and think, sometimes ill comment backing someone up or sharing my own personal beliefs but half the stuff here is either shills trying to throw you off the scent, or shills pushing a narative to advance their agenda. And the other half is a bunch of crackpot over the moon paranoia.

I like to consider everything as though it is 100% true while also reminding myself that we most likely will never know the truth, especially not the whole truth.

Why don't you go to a website that wasn't built and created in America with the intention of having an American user base instead of complaining about Americans using an American website?

t.

Not an American

Why don't you go to a political sub to talk politics and leave the conspiracy subs for conspiracies?

For the same reason that most of the biggest conspiracies in history are politically motivated.

Man, most of us are American, and most people care about US politics for some reason. I've wondered why that is. I mean I take a cursory interest in other nations politics, especially as it pertains to immigration, but not like other nations seem to really care about what we do.

To be honest, I think the majority of people have been into American politics for the last decade or so because it's has been very comical. First with Bush and now Trump it's like watching a surreal reality TV show.

The minority are into American politics because what you guys do DOES make a big impact on other countries, no doubt! So it makes sense to stay informed.

Regardless, I just want r/conspiracy to be about conspiracies again.. Maybe we could make a new slogan?;

Make r/conspiracy great again!..

r/conspiracy first!..

Build a wall between us and T_D!

Ding ding ding.

I totally disagree with that stat. It's half and half, but using the techniques that the poster above you pointed out, you have been made to believe differently.

It is not half and half. I have been here for years and this site has historically been a bastion of liberal and libertarian thought. Only in the last few years have conservatives began to make a voice for themselves on Reddit.

Trump supporters are a minority, but I do believe they are not as small as some people like to think.

or, possibly, you underestimated how many former "liberal and libertarian" Reddit users were more centrist, turned to Trump after having our candidate illegal and immorally stolen from us to prop up a corrupt warmongering hack. That we'd refuse to participate and come back to a party that reeks of corruption, did nothing to fix it besides "oh this is a private organization", and is who's antithetical to the whole "anticorruption, anticorporpation and antimeritocracy that many people despise.

Lol if you cared about not supporting a party that said its a private group that can do whatever in primaries you never would vote Republican after that they did to Ron Paul when he started getting too many delegates

But you never were a libertarian were you?

voted for Paul,I switched parties to constitutional party after 2012. I voted Trump because of his fiscal policy, spearhead against regulations, long history of conspiracy views, and because the blatant corruption of the leading party choices, Cruz Clinton, etc etc.

typical new /conspiracy. gotta attack someone with every comment, especially judging their username lol.

Didn't attack your username, don't be a snowflake

Pointing out blatant hypocrisy. If you cared about a party screwing over candidates you wouldn't vote Republican

How's that fiscal policy? The deficit sure is skyrocketing huh

you literally called me a libertarian because of my username. No other indication of my post would say anything about my political beliefs besides my disdain for how the DNC was manhandled by the Clinton campaign.

fiscal policy is awesome. finally can afford to open up my storefront in town with the new tax proposals. probably be able to provide 2-3 30k a year jobs, pretty good for a town of 5k, and county of 15k.

also, I hope national concealed carry is passed. can't wait to visit back home and actually be able to have a gun. so tired of walking the piss smelling streets of southern California, getting harassed by cholos and the homeless, unarmed.

deficit doesn't mean shit to me, it's all debt currency anyway. If this shortfall even has a chance of cutting some of our outrageous spending, or better yet, removing the fed, I'm good with it. if not we can always QE as always. I'm good with military spending so I'll just cut you off there.

but keep name calling and getting upset because people are adults and don't fit into your bubble.

also, it's not about not voting certain parties. it's about some of us remembering Hillary Clinton, how much of a crooked snake she's always been her whole career, the constant corruption both prior and after her husband's election, and then the icing on the cake-burying Bernie.

I mentioned that you call yourself a libertarian because of how the gop treated a libertarian candidate, to show your hypocrisy

I voted for Paul, in no way did I attack you based on your name, you don't see that you're a bit of a snowflake if youre triggered that easily?

Talking about her being a crook while he lost the court case about trump University literally during the campaign

You know he signed an executive order banning gun accessories yesterday? I thought that was democrats coming for guns

that's calling out a user name, which can be anything. you don't know if I'm actually a libertarian or if you're actually Gob bluth, but I didn't mention or make an assumption over that and how it relates to your assumed world view.

can you show me the executive order in which he did that?

I didn't realize banning the sale of bump stocks was taking my guns? do they not work anymore?

edit:BTW you are actually doing what this whole post is about.

Lol what... You chose your username, and you just said you voted for a libertarian. Enough of this

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/us/politics/trump-bump-stocks.html

Background checks and low capacity magazines dont make guns not work either, yet the right screams and cries about them

I voted for a 3rd party politician, like I attempt to each time as usually both cases are losers.

ah, so no legislation or executive orders. just a order telling the Justice department, who has no authority. got it.

are you done doing what this whole post was about?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. American Redditors are mostly leftists/liberals, same with Redditors from other countries (like me).

Using the techniques that have been pointed out, you have been made to believe that.

Look at what kind of political submissions is upvoted to the frontpage every day, and for the last 5 years (not only those past months).

Argumentum ad populum

Your first mistake is believing that individual people are deciding what rises to visibility on this site.

It hasn't been that way for a very long time.

I was here back in 2010 when it actually did work that way. So believe me, I know how to compare what reddit was to what it was turned into. I watched it happen before my eyes.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....

no wait... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Solid point

Wow, you've opened my eyes.

Look, it's the same pre-programmed response that's literally copy and pasted every single fucking time this comes up. Where do you think you are? The people here aren't stupid, I mean this is the sub where shill campaigns like yours get found out in the first place genius, it's obvious what's going on.

You got caught. We know what you're doing. There's no spinning the narrative here. It's too obvious.

Has it occurred to you that everything you described...

not condescending in the slightest

Well when you consider that Correct the Record poured massive amounts of funding in pro-Hillary propaganda, they probably are still at it trying to stir the pot.

In no way do I deny that happened but I’ve been on Reddit since 2007 and the demographic has always been left-leaning with a hint of libertarianism. Paying people to post leftist content on here is a total waste of money, IMO.

It’s also worth noting there’s a high amount of Russian-backed right wing propaganda posted on Reddit too. Russian twitter bot @GOP_Ten had dozens of top posts on r/The_Donald with at least 5-12k upvotes on each post.

Sorry I just don't buy the Russian angle.

@GOP_Ten was literally named in Mueller’s indictment last week, and you can easily search T_D for posts from that account. But persist in your fantasy realm if you so desire. This sub is supposed to be about seeking the truth even if it may be an affront to your partisan misgivings.

I don't search T_D for anything. Your statements mean nothing.

Nor am I saying you do. Simply stating it’s a verifiable fact there is a large Russian propaganda farm presence on Reddit.

And what of CTR and Share blue? What about the Israel lobby in Washington? Yeah, no influence in from of these.

My very first comment you replied to said I in no way deny the CTR presence, but wanted to note there is an equal but opposite right wing bot/propaganda farm effort here on Reddit. Some people here (like you apparently?) seem incapable of understanding there is both. You also seem to have failed a basic reading comprehension of what I posted. I’d like for you to re-read this thread and I see no reason to respond further.

Awe man, I didn't mean to offend you. Maybe you shouldn't be so sensative. It's just discussion.

/u/aaaa222222 is an actual troll though

I will be linking his last 15 comments to me. Every single one of them trolling.

These are the kind of people you let take over this sub.

I can guarantee that if he replies to this comment it will just be more trolling.

Edit: bingo I was right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duotjj5?st=JDZDWP4M&amp;sh=6c1f9196

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duotnza?st=JDZDXVNQ&amp;sh=f63600f2

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duosu1p?st=JDZDYAQI&amp;sh=9ca21daa

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duos3be?st=JDZDYUB7&amp;sh=8881a903

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duoqbn7?st=JDZDZLMO&amp;sh=907dee92

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duopy7u?st=JDZE00R5&amp;sh=ec2a5eae

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duopfgh?st=JDZE0IRC&amp;sh=aeb4a402

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duopa15?st=JDZE1075&amp;sh=ad9ec8a7

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duoo7hm?st=JDZE1HWA&amp;sh=7ea1920d

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duotqt6?st=JDZE3CAH&amp;sh=0de306a2

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duovm8n?st=JDZFG9ZQ&amp;sh=5e8098df

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duovoyf?st=JDZFHLA8&amp;sh=11e974e2

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zhrvn/comment/duow3iu?st=JDZFISRQ&amp;sh=013ef040

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7zkmaj/comment/duow7oq?st=JDZFO7AF&amp;sh=75bfedb3

It’s funny that he has so many upvotes. He’s the embodiment of what’s ruining this sub.

The irony that he has so many uovotes trying to deny the literal truth of what’s going on is ridiculous.

Appreciate this comment & took the time to look through the links you provided. The funny thing is it was obvious just from reading the original comment of his here that he is a partisan troll with an agenda. What's weird about browsing reddit in 2018 is not knowing if he's just your standard 16yr old 4chan edgelord or a paid troll of potentially foreign origin.

Yeah it gets the tough one.

I really can’t tell. But he deleted his comments after 24 hours. That’s usually a shill tactic since it keeps them from being exposed for shilling.

Trolls doesn’t care if they get caught trolling. That’s half the fun.

Why is Hillary Clinton defended constantly, anything against her down voted, brigaded and manipulated.............yet /r/hillaryclinton has a measly 30,000 subscribers?

Compare that /r/HillaryForPrison which has 58,000 subscribers. ALMOST DOUBLE THE SUBSCRIBERS!

Yet buffoons like you believe the Hillary support is grass roots.

Ask David Brocke how grass roots the employees at Code Blue are.

In order for your theory to work, you need a ton of people leaving their echo chambers and going into the subreddit's they disagree with to passionately try and argue with people that won't agree with them. So much of the behavior on here is very Trollish or off-topic enough that it tries to dilute the stream. I think it's easier to stomach that there's a few people controlling a bot farm or whatnot, than it is to suggest that the people of Reddit are Trollish by nature.

When people do try this, they are typically banned from that sub. When trying to 'debate' the 'other side' they usually take offense, call it arguing or bashing, and then ban you.

I’m not sure what you getting at. I don’t necessarily agree with your assumption on banning, but assuming that this sub is banning people at a high rate, what do you think has caused the high amount of comments that are from people that this isn’t their natural world view and/or are antagonistic in nature. Wouldn’t that suggest that there’s either a bot farm that just gets new accounts or that there is a higher than previous amount of people willing to cross over the line?

It's not a conspiracy. Shareblue/moveon/whatevertheirnewname is known to be paid to change discourse on Reddit and other social media.

That doesn’t explain why people complain so much about the supposed influence of T_D on this site and how this sub is T_D 2.0. It’s gaslighting, plain and simple.

The OP was saying we should not fall into "blue vs red" style in-fighting here in r/conspiracy, and I agree. Both sides stink/stank/stunk and will stink.

You argue that T_D's are marginalized on other subs, etc. So you disagree with the OP? You think that r/conspiracy should be a battle ground for "blue vs red" style in-fighting?

I side with OP: make r/conspiracy a place were we are critical of all state politics, and try to document the evil conspiracy on both sides.

I've downvoted you, not because maybe you hold pro-Trump sentiments (I hate pro-Hillary sentiments, not people, just as much). But because you fail to put your comment in the light of the points made by the OP: this is not a place for "blue vs red" style in-fighting.

You argue that T_D's are marginalized on other subs, etc. So you disagree with the OP?

You realize that I can agree with the OP

AND

still be intellectually honest enough to see that T_D has been marginalized on this website while the anti-Trump are given free reign to destroy the front page with their propaganda.

So, yeah, I've downvoted you for poor logic.

You realize that I can agree with the OP

So you think that this sub should be a blue-red battle ground? Please say it out loud. Because now it seems you are trying to hijack the thread about "let's stop in-fighting" with exactly just that.

still be intellectually honest enough to see that T_D has been marginalized on this website while the anti-Trump are given free reign to destroy the front page with their propaganda.

Fuck Reddit. Fuck T_D. Fuck D and all his opponents AND allies: fuck all career politicians. Fuck propaganda.

Let's focus on conspiracies.

That's my point.

Thanks for the downvote, l'll wear it like a medal.

Have a great day!

So you think that this sub should be a blue-red battle ground?

No, I absolutely do not think that.

I agree with the OP and at the same time, I think reddit has been rigged to push one side of a political agenda.

I also say fuck reddit, Trump, Clinton, T_D, r/politics, etc...

So you have a great day too!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think you might be very sensitive to the topic or you're exaggerating the issue because I can't even tell you the last time I thought about T_D.

And I'm not gaslighting you.

I've been ruthlessly filtering political subs from my front page, and just as you've described, this shit is seeping out into every other normal subreddit as well. Then I have to wonder, "do I filter /r/AdviceAnimals now?" etc.

... and even with all my filters, /r/The_Donald almost never shows up in the first few pages. There's definitely some shenanigans going on.

Upvoting/downvoting is definitely cancer, if the goal of a discussion board is to avoid being overtaken by shills and trolls and astroturfers. It's far too easy to suppress dissent and completely take over a given subreddit. Or if that doesn't work, they can always take over a mod account and start erratically removing good content just to frustrate legit participants.

For all its warts and user-unfriendliness, I have yet to find anything as good as 4chan for unsuppressed discussion. There are plenty of shills but they don't have the power to simply downvote things into oblivion.

I'm not a fan of purely technical solutions, but somebody definitely needs to create a new forum that utilizes proof-of-work or some kind of web of trust to prevent bad actors from so easily spamming and astroturfing the fuck out of it.

“To find out who controls you, simply find who you can not criticize”

So much this. I don’t even go to t_d and get insta labeled if I say anything against the millions of anti trump/leftists posts

Really? I've never seen anything related to the Antichrist

some subreddit called "T_D"

Cut the crap, you know what subreddit everyone is talking about, and you know why everyone is talking about them. Don't try to play ignorant about it.

Posts like this are clearly part of the campaign The side of the donald is good, and unfairly hated, while everyone against them are awful hypocrites!1!!!!!111!;

I am bombarded by multiple front page posts per hour that aggressively try to plant the seed in my mind that Donald Trump and his followers are the anti-Christ.

And here you are trying to plant the seed in everyone's mind that they are some underdogs and everyone else is part of a grand conspiracy. Really convenient. Also convenient that you immediately make a post defending Russia and Putin right after this...

that paint Donald Trump and his supporters as the anti-Christ [...] that paint Donald Trump and his supporters as the anti-Christ [...] that paint Trump and his supporters as the anti-Christ [...] gets berated, belittled, and downvoted as if he/she was the anti-Christ [...] members of "T_D" [...] Trump and "T_D" members

So you REALLY want us to see every day redditors as some disadvantaged group don't you... Poor poor trump and his supporters. It's so awful that people are upset with what they are pushing. It's so terrible that people don't like racism or class warfare. It's so terrible that people don't like people taking out debt in their names to give to the 1% while cutting benefits for the poor.

I see through you

You want the conspiracy? It's people like this trying to undermine people being upset with their government. Posts like this push the line of complacency with the government. "Supporters good, dissenters bad"

You have Trump Derangement Syndrome and it is affecting your brain.

Right, I disagree, therefore I am crazy. Can't disagree with Trump on your watch!

Why do you delete all your posts and comments so often? Don't want to have a history of defending putin? How long until you delete your comments defending Nunez today?

How can you spend so much time on /r/conspiracy, and yet not see any of the evidence of Trump and the republicans working with hostile foreign powers? Why do you go out of your way to defend them so much?

• brands me as "Trump supporter"

• brands me as a "Russian apologist"

• thinks he is being original and clever by doing the same thing a thousand other idiots on this website immediately do when called out on their bullshit

Your posts are trash. Can you do anything other than insult and deflect without substance?

I am saying what I am because your posts show just that. Or do you not think defending Russia and Putin and using whataboutism don't qualify for that?

• brands me as "Trump supporter"

• brands me as a "Russian apologist"

• cries "whataboutism"

thinks he is being original and clever by doing the same thing a thousand other idiots on this website immediately do when called out on their bullshit

It takes a special kind of idiot to think the dislike of the trump administration is a conspiracy.

"People hating Trump has nothing to do with the year-long 24/7 anti-Trump news cycle."

---a very special kind of idiot

"Why do people dislike the guy doing unpopular things?"

-- redditor waiting for his first election

"I don't understand how the media shapes public opinion. People just think stuff!"

---redditor typing on his phone from his 9th grade classroom

"if it weren't for the media, everything trump touches would turn to gold"

-- said nobody, until this guy

"Everything Trump touches turns to shit! Krumpf is literally Hitler!"

---another predictable retard

This shit right here.

I would give you gold but fuck reddit.

What about misognynoir?

Why is it called gaslighting?

The term originates in the systematic psychological manipulation of a victim by her husband in the 1938 stage play Gas Light, known as Angel Street in the United States, and the film adaptations released in 1940 and 1944. In the story, a husband attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment and insisting that she is mistaken, remembering things incorrectly, or delusional when she points out these changes. The original title stems from the dimming of the gas lights in the house that happened when the husband was using the gas lights in the flat above while searching for the jewels belonging to a woman whom he had murdered. The wife correctly notices the dimming lights and discusses the phenomenon with her husband, but he insists that she just imagined a change in the level of illumination.

The term "gaslighting" has been used colloquially since the 1960s to describe efforts to manipulate someone's perception of reality. In a 1980 book on child sexual abuse, Florence Rush summarized George Cukor's Gaslight (1944) based on the play and wrote, "even today the word [gaslighting] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Unless you archive the Wikipedia page on the day of your visit (http://archive.is/), the definition can and often does change. The #DeepState has been tirelessly working toward a complete re-write of history. Cultural Marxism has a strong foothold and is well-funded by the “philanthropist” (((george soros))).

Thank you for explaining exactly what it is that you are doing.

That’s what I was thinking - also, remeber oizza gate sparked the term ‘fake news’ by the msm. They really don’t want us catching them playing dominos on spaghetti

That's not where the term "Fake News" comes from. It was coined way before that by Craig Silverman (from Buzzfeed of all places), after he discovered 140+ news sites coming from Veles, Macedonia who were profiting off the facebook ad revenue for creating controversial, with-out-evidence new articles.

it's only going to work until we the masses shape our own consensus.

Welcome to the new method of shaping consensus and public opinion: by deploying troll/astroturf armies

I'm usually skeptical of things when I post here, I also have posted on other conspiracy/alt news sites, have been doing so for years. I constantly get accused of being a "shill" for asking questions that should, if the theory I am questioning is legitimate, have a clear answer. I frequently get called a "shill".

I have come to the conclusion that the people yelling "shill" are unable to tell a "shill" from an honest poster.

Also if I were involved with Dr. They or whoever the last place I would pay for shilling would be r/conspiracy. You're never going to change anyone's mind or influence anyone here.

I have come to the conclusion that the people yelling "shill" are unable to tell a "shill" from an honest poster.

Good trolls are hard or impossible to differentiate from real users. This is why the technique is so powerful.

Also, the trolls are used to seed and repeat the narrative constantly and build up enough momentum that it becomes the most popular opinion.

Good trolls are hard or impossible to differentiate from real users.

The conversation was about shills, not trolls.

Professional tennis players are very good at tennis, but that has nothing to do with shilling, and neither do trolls.

shills and trolls are 2 sides of the same coin. :)

No they aren't, the two words have always meant completely different things.

In the current discussion it's irrelevant.

No it isn't, words mean things. A troll refers to one type of person, a shill something completely different. The two types of people engage in completely different behaviour.

Can one person do both things? Sure, just as a tennis player can also play basketball. That doesn't make Wimbledon and The NBA Finals the same game.

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Yes, the problem is definitely not posts like this, its entirely everything else.

Was there something specific about my comment that you found factually inaccurate? The groups I cited actually exist, and I said they are partially to blame, not fully.

This is the conspiracy sub, why the fuck are we all arguing over who did what left said this right said that,

Notice I was replying directly to the user who commented on "troll/astroturf armies", eg: the examples I listed...b there was no argument from him or from me... just pointing out facts... not sure what you're on about, or why....

eg: the examples I listed

It just so happened that your list is specifically of one political ideology. How weird.

or why....

Because the thread topic is literally about how peoples' obsession with individual political ideology is making this subreddit shitty, which you then immediately do.

You might notice that the person you're replying to didn't specify a purposefully catered list that details only a few politically minded organization while serendipitously also leaving out other politically minded organizations that do the same thing in this community. Also weird.

JTRIG is British Intelligence, COINTELPRO is CIA, neither of which adhere to a specific political ideology. How weird.

CTR and Shareblue are effectively the same thing, the former evolved into the latter, so that's one item that had a Democratic lean. I don't know of an equivalent group on the Republican side that has the same modus operandi, do you? Otherwise I would've listed that too.

I don't know of an equivalent group on the Republican side that has the same modus operandi, do you?

Is that a joke? Or are you purposefully being dense? Fox News is one of several obvious choices. Breitbart, another super obvious choice, etc etc.

Point is your starting a political debate in a thread that specifically calls out unnecessary political debating as the downfall of this sub.

OP is literally talking about you.

You started this "political debate" dude, in a weirdly energetic and frantic way. I made a comment reply supporting someone else's top level comment. I provided the names of specific groups that do what he said.

You're misinformed or you don't understand what those groups I listed are, and what they do, and how they do it. They are completely different than Fox News and Breitbart. But again, you are completed ignoring that I mention the fucking CIA a JTRIG hand are saying I'm political?(!). You need to read up on them, take a breather, and think of all this.

I was simply providing a little context to the comment I was replying to. I did not start a political argument, if that was the goal, I would have made a top level comment and I would not have mentioned anything about CIA or JTRIG. You went off the rails with this "political argument". Sorry man, unless someone else here chimes in, I'm done replying.

Yes I started it by posting calling you out on listing only left winged news outlets.

You keep living in that world of yours. Don't worry, you're totally right, its literally everyone else and in no way do you do anything wrong despite the completely apparent hypocrisy.

You're really emotionally charged up about this, and the hypocrisy is yours, not mine. Last reply to address that and hopefully inform you the way I was asking you to try to inform yourself.

I listed Correct The Record because they literally did what the comment I replied to said is the problem with this sub: astroturfing.

From Wikipedia:

Correct the Record was a super PAC founded by David Brock. It supported Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. The super PAC aimed to find and confront social media users who posted unflattering messages about Clinton and paid anonymous tipsters for unflattering scoops about Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, including audio and video recordings and internal documents.

Fox News and Breitbart (as you mentioned) are not super PACs that literally paid shills to troll and astroturf social media sites like Reddit. Please, inform me and everyone else of any similar social media manipulation group that you know of, regardless of political affiliation. CTR was not simply a "politically biased news outlet", as you are saying the groups you and I listed are.

And again, you fail to acknowledge the 2 apolitical and covert intelligence community operations I mentioned, and the significance as to why. You're the one who keeps seeing "sides" and seeing things through political eyes.

Sorry dude, you calling me a hypocrite is not cool, when you were throwing shade from the start, locked in to your idea that my comment was political when I was literally telling you that was not my intent, and explaining why. Had to address that. I wish you the best in this crazy journey through life. Over and out.

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Record

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Not discussing the apolitic issue, discussing the selective political ones you used, which you seem to not address the fact that you only selected one political ideology while ignoring the identical behavior from other ideological.

But you keep being you, pretending you didn't do that over and over and over and over

Yeah everyone who doesn't believe in pedophile pizzas are organized astroturfing armies of trolls set out to silence you.

See, that's not a conspiracy theory, that's called being an actual retard.

The beauty of shaping public opinion so masterfully is that they don't even need astroturfing after a while once everyone has gone full retard.

the sad reality.

It's a choice as to how a person responds to it. If you shy away and allow yourself to be silenced, they functionally win. Just don't do that.

The point I'm about to make is hypothetical, meant to demonstrate the feasibility of a conspiracy, not provide evidence for the existence of one.

Remember that over $20 trillion are missing from Department of Defense records. How much do 100,000 full-time shills cost at $100/hour, you may ask? $20 billion/year, which is 1/1000th of the missing money. Theoretically, they would each have no idea of each other's existence and wouldn't need to know the ultimate goals they serve. They probably wouldn't know they who they work for at all. Up it to $1000/hour (enough money such that you could keep a secret) and we're still talking about 1% of the missing money per year of this hypothetical program.

Seems feasible to me.

shills are much cheaper. go look around the darknet.

Of course. I am steel-manning (as opposed to straw-Manning) the counter-argument. So if my argument is valid, all arguments with lower burdens of proof are also valid.

Brought to you by Hillary Clinton, David Brocke, Correct The Record and Code Blue.

I don't know, I find the sub to be a mixed bag. Although It's true that a lot of idiots fall for the shill psyops that paint us as right wing loons and such, there is a lot of people here that can see through the bullshit too.

Reddit isn’t what it used to be. I’ve been looking for an alternative for ages, hoping one would emerge. Does anyone have anything comparable to this platform? I read voat occasionally, but it seems very one sided. I miss open sided debate with intelligent people from BOTH sides stating their arguments fairly. Where do we go from here?

The people who hire these PR trolls (shills) are specifically LOOKING to make it so there's nowhere to gather for anyone who's not giving into the fake social media peer-pressure ("racist!!1") and continuing being a zombie. The only way to gather is sites that don't appear on the news, those are the only ones with real seeming people that aren't afraid of saying maybe the Anti-Trump folks are a bit crazy now. Like imgur.

What exactly are you hoping to find?

Do you want a place that genuinely challenges your preexisting beliefs?

Or are you hoping to find affirmation of what you already believe?

I think he’s looking for a place with genuine debate between real, normal people. Rather than fighting off armies of astroturfers to be able to discuss the subject of the sub.

One man's astroturfer is another man's freedom fighter.

One man's astroturfer is another man's ~freedom fighter~ Internet warrior.

FTFY

why are you being so argumentative?

He raises legit questions. Echo chambers help noone. Still a civil discussion is what is needed and not that hailstorm of insults you can read here left and right.

okay...and that's exactly why OP wants to find a better platform...

Try steemit.com

I did this. It was an interesting journey but I'm still here.

• voat.co - mostly people from the_donald and similar who got fed up with the censorship "glitches". Then they had to deal with spam and bots, etc so now they have as many rules as reddit

• empeopled.com - a neat idea where you got actual bitcoin for people liking and sharing your posts and comments. it is currently being "re-imagined" in the blockchain, whatever that means.

• votable.com - reddit-like site that had a good but small community. it is now shutdown.

• minds.com - kinda reddit and facebook merged where you earn points that you can use to promote your posts.

Don't forget imgur, which has become Facebook with all of the self promoting and shameless advertisements, not to mention a hive-mind even worse than the normal Reddit "circle-jerk"

cat tax

https://i.imgur.com/xYMdS2k.png