[deleted]

Sorry I get what she was saying now. Doesn't that still mean that shots were being fired from the opposite side of the building?

I am always weary of anyone who tries to discourafe the free flow of information and this is no exception. People need to brainstorm ideas and in order to do that some really shitty ones are going to have to fly out there.

It is important for people to put ideas up for critique. It helps everyone involved. You could silence all ideas with the reasoning that it turns other people off because people will dismiss whatever they don't want to believe anyway.

Not everyone here is trying to wake a bunch of people up and not everyone responds to the same things the same way. I don't agree with most of what you contributed but I will upvote for adding to the discussion. Happy truth hunting.

I'm one of the people who downvotes the telescreen-believers.

Let me explain myself.

The telescreen is a known liar. It lied about Nayirah for just one example. All of the actors involved got away with it. The telescreen knows it can lie and it knows the lemming masses will, with rare exception, believe whatever they are told by the telescreen.

That is why I downvote you. For defending a known liar, like a battered partner defending their abuser.

In this day and age, there are literally surveillance cameras everywhere AND everyone has a camera at their fingertips, especially high school kids. Yet actual footage of “certain events” either never seems to exist OR, worse - is sealed or deemed CLASSIFIED with no further explanation.

“...if JFK was killed by a random citizen that just snapped and went crazy, why would ANYTHING need to be classified?”

Edit: obviously I am talking in generalizations, not entirely specifically about this last school shooting

What is the definitive proof, in your mind, that convinces you this was real?

Where are the reports of several hundred people who witnessed it? Any proof of witnesses to Cruz comitting the crime? Who are the thousands who saw the bodies? Where are you getting this information from? It doesn't take mental gymnastics to see the reoccurring themes and patterns that consistently pop up each time one of these events occur. It does take mental gymnastics to ignore them and to believe everything as reported by proven liars in the MSM.

I downvote you not because you disagree with me but because of your negative and condescending attitude.

No one is "obliged" to believe anything and if there's one thing that really disinclines the public to believe what the authorities maintain it's when all of the standard procedures that are as predictable as night following day whenever a major crime gets committed, investigated, and followed up in the media all suddenly no longer apply in any way, shape or form to one that is already a highly unusual mess of conflicting and contradicting facts that no one seems to be certain about.

And what about this entirely new phenomenon of some goddamned "drill taking place" at the same time as the majority of all of these so called "terrorist acts" suddenly taking place, not just in the US but elsewhere?

What's the explanation for that? Why has none been forthcoming?

And lest we forget it was 9/11 and the drills that saw the Air Force stand down and that brought FEMA to New York on the morning of that one before it happened.

And that of course kicked off the great and pressing need for all these other drills that just happened to turn into the real deal too many, in fact in almost every time there was an incident.

I don't know what you saw with Sandy Hook, but I didn't see anything that struck me as being credible. In fact it was all incredible.

How could I be more shocked about it than the people that it presumably happened to?

And that's the reality that the vast majority of us wound up asking ourselves about it. You think any normal parent doesn't know that they'd be emotionally destroyed and in a state of shock too severe to say anything at all if their child was ever killed in a situation like that?

But to calmly stand around less than 24hrs later and nonchalantly allow themselves to be interviewed about it without batting so much an eye about it? Who the fuck is kidding who about shit like that?

Have you watched your Mainstream Evening News lately? Tonight for example, where I live: they talk about the Florida school shooting, show the students talk about gun control etc...they show trump doing his “listening meeting”, they talk about the bump stock ban, gun control gun, control, gun control. THE VERY NEXT SEGMENT they are showing footage of Syria getting bombed back into the Stone Age. They show the intense fighting, the bombs hitting buildings, and they show women and ESPECIALLY CHILDREN getting blown to pieces. They show wounded children screaming and crying while being carried off by other survivors also suffering from severe injuries. Don’t kid yourself, your Mainstream Media has ZERO problems showing you innocent children getting murdered.

That is exactly the point: “No one has to PROVE anything to you”. There is no transparency or accountability. They can simply claim that x,y, and z happened and your choices are: to go along with it or be called a crazy person. Once you start connecting the dots for yourself, you begin to see that the media leaves out A LOT of important details in MANY stories and blatantly ignore other important stories altogether. You do not deny this, do you? I mean, this thought has crossed your mind, right? Why do they do this? Do they pick and choose when they tell half the story? Do they do it all the time? How would you know?

Well it sounds like you have it all figured out. I won’t waste anymore of your time ;)

I'm sure seeing a ton of these types of posts from people who admit they never post here and immediately ask for everyone to believe the official narrative and stop asking questions. Isn't the point of a conspiracy sub to provoke thought by asking questions to find the truth on a given topic? A good majority of us here will never fully believe the MSM narrative on anything. Posts like these are counter to the purpose of this sub and, IMO, designed to stop the free flow of thoughts/questions countering the official story. It is a passive aggressive attempt at censorship.

How does it hurt this sub looking at all of the inconsistencies with the official narrative as well as discussing the similar patterns between this and other false flag events? To ask subscribers to stop questioning any topic hurts this sub worse than questioning the MSM narrative.

EDIT: Also, referring to us as loons is very condescending and makes me question what you are doing on a conspiracy sub if that is how you view conspiracy enthusiasts.

There is plenty of evidence that this shooting is yet another false flag. There is the evidence of drills being done on the same day, the FBI knowing the suspect and doing nothing to prevent it, the suspect hearing demonic voices in his head telling him to commit the crime, conflicting eye witness accounts of multiple shooters, pushing an agenda, potential crisis actors, etc.

If you mean to be condescending towards conspiracy enthusiasts, then what are you doing on this sub? What is your purpose here? Maybe you should find a sub with people you don't consider loons because we are obviously beneath your level of intelligence.

Where did I ever claim thousands were involved? I provided plenty of valid reasons to question the official narrative. What are your valid reasons to believe things happened as the MSM report it?

You say you love conspiracies yet call those of us who question the narrative loons. Something here doesn't add up here and it doesn't take a loon to figure it out.

You are either extremely ignorant or completely closed-minded. Of course we question everything the MSM tells us. They are proven liars owned by 6 corporations with proven connections to the CIA. The MSM and the US Gov are legally allowed to use weaponized propaganda against us. They have before and still are using it to this day. The purpose of this sub is to question everything. If that bothers you so much, what are you even doing here? Seems you would be much happier without the loons.

In my view the probability of a conspiracy being true drops off rapidly with the number of people allegedly involved and how criminal it is. And those who don't realize that just don't have a good model of the world and the dynamics between people and organizations.

The complexity of organizing a conspiracy that involves many people is astounding, even mathematical models that simplify human nature greatly are unstable when trying to model this. The uncertainty involved in human affairs pretty much wipes out any predictability that would allow such planning. The laymen know this as the butterfly effect - sensitivity to initial conditions.

All conspiritors are always engaged in a subgame among themselves - defection. The first to defect can gain immunity and the risk to himself from the others drops off with the number of people involved and how much evidence he is able to collect (so that his value as a potential witness drops).

And when it comes to school shootings it is insane to believe that anyone who has anything to lose would want to dabble in that in any way, and who gains what to justify such enormous risk?

In my view the probability of a conspiracy being true drops off rapidly with the number of people allegedly involved and how criminal it is.

Do you have any reasoning or evidence to support this view?

All conspiritors are always engaged in a subgame among themselves - defection.

I suspect that there will never be evidence to convince people who are inclined to believe in conspiracy theories with weak evidence to begin with.

I convinced myself of this by studying game theory and then running simulations of conspirators, the payoff to defect always wins out eventually and the increasing number of participants makes the eventually ever shorter.

If a simplified perfectly deterministic dynamical system is chaotic I have no doubt the actual messy system will be also.

These proven conspracies involved a ton of people and yet they were able to keep them secret for decades before the truth came out.

MKUltra

 Back in the 1950s the CIA secretly dosed individuals with LSD in order to test the potential effects of mind control. Although the practice reportedly continued for two decades, it was launched before the drug movement of the 1960s made LSD into a popular counterculture symbol. And while being given some free acid might sound like a great time to some, or at least the plot to a bad hipster action movie, dozens of people were reportedly left with permanent disabilities after secretly being subjected to massive amounts of LSD and electroshock therapy after seeking treatment for “minor psychiatric complaints.”

The Gulf of Tonkin Incident

On August 2, 1964, the USS. Maddox opened fire on what it later claimed were several North Vietnamese targets. The skirmish deepened America’s involvement in the Vietnam War, leading to the death of thousands of U.S. soldiers and many more Vietnamese, including hundreds of thousands of civilians. Except, it turned out the “targets” the Maddox fired upon didn’t actually exist. It’s still debated today whether the incident was an intentional misdirection by the military. But one thing is certain: President Johnson’s original claim that the North Vietnamese fired first has been debunked. Even former Defense Secretary Robert McNamara admitted as much in an interview before his death. After all, it’s kind of hard to start a fight when you’re not even there.

A secretive, cult-like gathering of world elites

 A secretive organization of people that control the world? Well, it turns out it does exist and many of its members are powerful world leaders and titans of industry. The real action happens at Bohemian Grove, which appears to primarily exist as a place, “where the rich and powerful go to misbehave” according to The Washington Post. Or, alternatively, to hear it from the group directly, where members, “share a passion for the outdoors, music, and theater.” However, along with more traditional fare such as drinking and big dinners, the regular activities also reportedly include performing rituals before a giant wooden owl, according to The Post. Owners of the property host a two-week retreat in California each year for some of the wealthiest and most influential Americans. Past attendees include Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, both of whom attended before entering the White House. Oh, and it’s where the idea for the atomic bomb was first sketched out. No big deal.

https://www.good.is/articles/six-conspiracy-theories-that-are-true

And if you don't believe our government would ever do false flags against it's own citizens, take a gander at this:

"Operation Northwoods" Cuban False Flag Theory

A large amount of conspiracy theorists believe that the U.S. government has used false flags to get the country involved in a majority of the wars we've been in; including instances such as knowing about the Japanese planes before they reached pearl harbor to get us into WW2, or 9/11 being an inside job so we can go fight in the middle-east. One can easily say "There is no way the U.S government would even think about killing all those innocent people on 9/11 just to get us involved in a war," but after learning about "Operation Northwoods" you may think again. In 1962 the U.S. Department of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed a false flag that would have the C.I.A. commit acts of terrorism on American citizens and blaming it on the Cuban Government, all in order to have solid reasoning to go to war with Cuba. The acts of terrorism would involve bombings and other acts of terror in the Miami area and Washington D.C, hijacking planes whose passengers were college students, and bombings of U.S ships. The U.S government would hide in the shadows, while its citizens blindly blame Cuba for all the death and destruction. Thankfully for us, President Kennedy refused the proposal, and evidence of this entire ordeal was made public in 1997. "Operation Northwoods" did nothing but provide evidence that the U.S. government has made plans to commit acts of terror to get involved in wars without thinking twice of the welfare of the innocent. I'm not saying 9/11 was an inside job, but you can't deny a close correlation between "Operation Northwoods" and the events of 9/11.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theodysseyonline.com/3-mind-opening-government-conspiracy-theories-proven-true.amp

Perhaps instead of a "ton" you can provide the actual rough estimate of how many people were involved in each incident. As well as to the actual legality of the alleged actions. What those actions ultimately led to is hindsight.

The murder of children cannot be compared to anything you listed. And neither can all other conspiracies than allege mass murder - not the indirect killing of people as the result of some action.

When the waters are sufficiently muddy a bureaucracy can do wonders dispelling blame and accountability, the conspiracies alleged are anything but muddy.

It's called weaponized propaganda which is completely legal for the Gov to use against us. Just like Sandy Hook, no one died and they are using these false flags to push an agenda to drum up support for a gun control agenda. The last thing I shared about Operation Northwoods was exactly what you say they would never do yet actually planned to until Kennedy stopped them. Once again:

"In 1962 the U.S. Department of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff proposed a false flag that would have the C.I.A. commit acts of terrorism on American citizens and blaming it on the Cuban Government, all in order to have solid reasoning to go to war with Cuba. The acts of terrorism would involve bombings and other acts of terror in the Miami area and Washington D.C, hijacking planes whose passengers were college students, and bombings of U.S ships."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theodysseyonline.com/3-mind-opening-government-conspiracy-theories-proven-true.amp

So please, try and tell us again that the Gov wouldn't do that against its own citizens. History proves you wrong bud.

Just like Sandy Hook, no one died...

Seriously? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The absence of dead children in that community when they are expected would of generated a lot of disruption. Evidence should be easy to produce.

Nothing you linked or said establishes a conspiracy taking place, wacky strategic suggestions that were not carried out is only evidence of rational individuals rejecting a risky dumb idea.

I will not participate in this sub further, seems like a waste of my time.

hey bud. were you there? how are you going to call anyone 'insane and wrong' ? and then call people the Icke word? ye. thou! you! who hasn't the decency to use paragraphs?

regardless of how insane and wrong people here are, I'm still stoked that we have, as of yet, retained the right to be so.

Suck a dick