According to the Bible, Yahweh ("God") is Satan. They are one and the same.
0 2018-02-26 by Awesomo3082
All through the bible, the old testament especially, there are stories about an evil god who loves blood sacrifices, genocides, infanticides, sexism, xenophobia, cruel and overbearing punishments, on and on. It's easy to infer that Satan and Yahweh might be one and the same.
But we don't have to infer. Today I'll show you that in the bible, it points out very clearly that Yahweh and Satan are, in fact, the same person.
The bible wrote down more than one account of the rule of David, one of their major patriarchs. It was recorded in Samuel and in Chronicles. Much of it is even copied down near verbatim. I'll link the relevant chapters here, but it's the first verse of each that is important.
Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
Did you see that? God commanded David to do something "evil". And in the mirrored recording in Chronicles, it was Satan who challenged him to do it.
If you're a believer in the God Inspired Scriptures, and believe that they are always true, then it naturally follows, that you are following Satan. It would certainly explain why God loves violence and bloodshed so much.
And if this whopper of a revelation isn't quite enough, wait... there's more! :)
Not only does Yahweh = Satan, but the New Testament chimes in, and reveals further conflicts within the text.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone
But God/Satan just tempted David into doing evil...? Why would "James" write down something that's so clearly false? Well, maybe "God" was feeling generous after he tricked his beloved people, and let them off easy, right?
Nope. God decided that in order to properly punish David for this greivous crime of counting humans (which god told him to do), he would unleash a plague on Israel that would kill seventy thousand people. Isn't god good?
I'll leave various links here as well, showing, from the bible, how god possesses people, incites them to violence, and then punishes them for being possessed by "god". He even allows human sacrifice from time to time. He doesn't even punish the people who sacrifice humans, although counting humans and trimming sideburns are grievous offenses...
"Western" civilization has been under the mind control of Satan/God for thousands of years. Each of the children of this abrahamic cancer point fingers at each other and assume that they're more righteous than the others, but they all serve the evil one. Catholic. Protestant. Jewish. Muslim. All followers. Of the evil one.
Extras:
He "hardens pharaoh's heart so that he can punish him further. This culminates in the infanticide of every firstborn of Egypt, which is still celebrated today. Yay infanticide!, apparently...
The evil spirit called "God" possesses Saul, making him hate David for no reason. This evil spirit of god later makes Saul try to kill David. The entire conflict spanned years, and culminated with Saul being killed/punished by god. Poor guy...
Now stretch out, touch your toes, and get ready to see some mental gymnastics incoming.
75 comments
1 Theorist_Infinite 2018-02-26
Try re reading the Bible and change the word Lord to Satan, and the word God to Lucifer.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I don't advocate worshipping any of the entity characters in the bible. They're all part of the Elohim. But your suggestion would be an excellent way to get people to open their eyes to the nature of the bible.
1 dha1975 2018-02-26
Passages in 2 Sam 24 and I Chron 21 do seem in opposition; then, there are dozens of other passages that draw clear distinction between God and His fallen angel. When this happens, I typically start digging contextually into passages well before and well after the apparent contradiction. Your point is an interesting one, and it'll definitely have me reading/examining more deeply. Thanks!
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Thank you.
I think that some of the confusion happens because the bible "deliberately" conflates "Yahweh" and "Elohim". Most people don't realize that the god of the bible is often referred to as a collection of gods.
This passage in Samuel just adds to the confusion, by using both versions multiple times in the same chapter. It's almost like it's by design :)
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
God literally said there is no God beside him, it was the first commandment.
1 boxcarauman 2018-02-26
Good read..I enjoy this sort of stuff...have you found anymore of these contradictions that you didn't put in the post? Thanks!
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
There are too many to list, but they vary in importance. This is one of the more "devastating" contradictions, since it addresses the nature of "god" himself. For casual Christians, it may not mehtter, but for Bible purists, who think it's the divinely inspired verbatim word of god? It makes them... uncomfortable.
Here's a fun video that turns some of the more lighthearted contradictions into a game show.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
If God wanted "purists" and 24/7 worship, he would give men no free will, they would rise and set as the sun does without any sound.
Clearly, he wants a free creation that does good deeds. The Purists are ignorant of God and so are you as you assume to know the nature of God from a book from human scribes.
1 useless_aether 2018-02-26
but how come god told adam and eve not to eat the fruit from the tree, yet the serpent (satan) told eve to do it anyway?
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Who told you that the serpent was "Satan"?
Hint: The bible didn't say that. It was a pastor, an article, somebody else "interpreting" the passage, but it wasn't the bible.
It's the Book of Job that makes this topic more confusing, because they are two characters in that book, again.
1 useless_aether 2018-02-26
thanks, will look into it.
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
It was said in the Bible.
Adversary means opposite.
He told eve the to do the opposite of what God told her not to do I.E. Satan or if you want to use another one of his many names, Devil which means deceiver. He deceived Eve.
Real question, you don't seem to know much about the Bible you post a lot of odd things. Are you a Satanist trying to unlock other people who might also be Satanists?
I'm just curious, I don't care because I know every thing the Bible says will come to pass but for my worldly scientific mind, I'm still curious.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Don't tell me that Satan is in Genesis. Show me. He isn't there, regardless of how many times pop christian preachers say so. It's a serpent. A clever animal. No references to Satan whatsoever.
Yahweh is evil. If Yahweh is evil, and he is Satan, then I don't like either of him. I think that the people behind all of these bible-based religions have been keeping humanity in arrested development since they first put pen to paper. or papyrus...
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
The funny part is it's natural that you should feel this way.
2 Peter 3:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
You were already prophesied to exists bro, respect to the matrix.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I guess you didn't find Satan in Genesis, huh?
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
Why wouldn't all of the Bible comprehend as one?
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Still no luck, huh?
Damn I hate being right. :)
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
You are only right someone in the spirit of scoffing. Anyone and I mean even the wise men out of Edom would declare you are wrong.
The Bible is just a paperweight to someone without the spirit of God. You need the gift of faith to wield it.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
You just called the bible a paperweight. I am amused :)
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
Yes.
Belief is what gives understanding where people insinuate contradictions.
For one can only solve a question, only if he truly believes he questions it.
1 saphiresheen 2018-02-26
He said it was a paperweight in your hands because you are unqualified.
1 schmickler83 2018-02-26
That's always the last resort of anyone defending the bible: "just believe us, damn it! Don't use your head, use your faith."
1 FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 2018-02-26
Faith is part of decoding the Bible.
Someone with just a little bit of faith can change their whole life around. Imagine when you truly believe what you can imagine and envision. Even in the darkest dark would look as bright as the sun.
Faith is a power and as a power it can be wield on both the dark and light side.
Luke 17:6 King James Version (KJV)
1 ketoquest 2018-02-26
Beautiful brother! "Gift of faith to wield it". 2 corinthians 4:3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost"
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
You are so delusional in this thinking I don't even know what to say. You obviously have never studied a bible or Greek text.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Obviously...
I don't think you're objective enough to know anything about what's "obvious" or not. I mean, look at all the contradictions your own bible has in it. It's so obvious a child could see it. That's why we have to spank the devil out of em early, so they don't use their brains and figure out how awful this book, its religion, and its "god" really is.
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
Look, apparently your angry at God...so you can continue to think how you like. You can say your reasoning is true, that dosnt make it the truth.
Gods people know his word.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
The passage in 2Samuel 24 (1) does not say God told David. instead it says God was angery at David and david was moved to count the people.
That's why later God is angry because David let his pride make him arrogant enough to count all his men of the land. He was going against God. 1chronicles24 tells us who moved david, it was Satan. God's anger and Satan convincing David are two different things. In the Original Hebrew, it is very clear that God is angry and "something" moves David to do evil.
All over the Bible, we know the Adversary is Satan, he cannot over power anyone but those who submit to his suggestion. He even had the power to tempt Jesus himself. The Law is Do as Thou Wilt and be righteous. Satan inverts the Law of God. The judgment is already passed on him but he wants to claim other souls with deception and pride. He has no power over people is just an influencer.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
If you're going to lie about the verse, it would help if you could have an admin spez the verse, with its link, out of my post. It's kinda hard to pull off that kind of... lie, when the verse is available a few inches up on the screen.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
I'm pointing out the error in your translation as it does not say " God said..." you are infering that and your argument that Satan and God are one person has no support. No proof of either.
(in the Hebrew, we note the two sentences) God was angry (COMMA) and it moved David to count the people. Do you see the point? You are assuming it was God that moved David. But God gives no such command. In Job God allows Job to be tested, Satan himself comes to heaven, and God allows him to test Job's attachment to wealth and health. is it possible God allowed Satan to test David?? yes.
because David has the Will to do as he wishes. Hence even if Satan tells him, he can say No.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
I assume you don't understand that Hebrew language. Translations of the Old testament require Hebrew Greek lexicon, every word the translators used is numbered in Hebrew to create accuracy. Everytime the word Adversary is used to mean "Satan" it is different number than general use of the word "adversary"
So everytime we are dealing with the Satan, the person, noun we get H7853, H7854 etc...
You are correct that in Genesis 3, we are talking about a different entity. "Satan" is sometimes used as adjective to describe those of his crew of demons and other times as Himself in person
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I know enough to be able to pick through a concordance properly, and spot those kinds of differences in similar words.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
Good, then you understand my argument against you is not even based on conviction but simple reference of the verses you presented. The verse in Samuel does not indicate anywhere that God commanded David to count the people. The person who tells David is named in 1chonicles21.
Every man has the weight of his will and his deeds, Even David is stripped of his power and his crown is taken from him by his sons. Wicked men hold great powers and the very righteous men lose everything. Every man is judged by his deeds, he does as he wills as long as he lives on earth but no man has great power forever. in this fleeting playground men wager their eternal souls as bargaining chip to play the game of material life. Free will has consequence and judgment associated with it.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I didn't follow it up on the other comment because now you're just nitpicking over one word, "moves" or something along those lines. This is irrelevant, because the action, the pushing, the encouragement, the possession, whatever you want to call it, this action was directly from the one called god.
So debating over which verb was used, or how active vs passive it was, is just handwaving around the fact that it was god who compelled/prodded/encouraged/commanded David's actions. And in the other book, recording this same story, the same character called "god" is also "Satan", the adversary.
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
Once again, 2Sameul 24 1 and 10 prove that God was not the one, in fact he 2samuel 24-10 David prays for forgiveness for doing something God did not allow or command. It is poor translation of 2Samuel24-1 that creates this wrong conclusion for you or you refuse to see what verse is saying. David is not good, 1Chronicles, we see God even sends his angel to destroy David until he repents.
Your premises is that God allows evil, but God allows free will. David is a man who lives by the sword, he is waging war counting men in his land. God is angry wit him for Saul's death, there is a Famine because of that. David is no better any other king, he breaks God's commandment to be just and not shed blood. Israel is constantly destroyed because of the evil they do.
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
This
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
OP has no idea the context of 1Samuel and 2 Samuel. It is the story of an awful King David, who like Saul commits evil upon evil to cover his bad deeds. The Wrath of God is upon him and his People. He reacts to this wrath with arrogance and counts the might and numbers of his army, his action is a reaction to the anger of God. Not God telling him to do it.
1 Xaviermgk 2018-02-26
Followed by:
And THIS guy talks about mental gymnastics throughout the thread! Sorry dude, people who have a decent understanding of religion and just morality in general don't have the level of condescension you do. But if you want to worship Satan and say that's the same as God, be my guest. Just don't blame God for pratfalls down the line.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
There's a difference between discussing words to find clarity, and arguing over words to muddy up what the verse says. The action is clearly from god, just as it was from Satan in the other verse.
Arguing about if God "said" it doesn't change that God "did" it. These kinds of "debates" lead us to arguing over what the definition of "is" is.
1 Xaviermgk 2018-02-26
If you are saying that arguing whether the verb was active or passive is "handwaving" then you are IGNORING whether God "did" it or not.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Now we get to argue over what the definition of "did" is. You'd make Bill Clinton proud.
1 Xaviermgk 2018-02-26
Letting something happen versus actively doing it is a WORLD of difference.
1 Xaviermgk 2018-02-26
No, I wouldn't, because I'm moral whereas Clinton used language to evade morality. I can tell that the way you speak makes you not a good person to trust in matters of faith.
1 420_bloze_it_feggit 2018-02-26
You do realize that the Bible is the HUMAN interpretation of God’s word...
1 GodlyUnderdog 2018-02-26
Not if you trusted yhe verse about gods word being unmaleable and that that word is the Bible.
1 420_bloze_it_feggit 2018-02-26
Did god write that down... or did a man
1 GodlyUnderdog 2018-02-26
Youre not getting the point. Thats a verse in the bible youre using as fact or metaphor. The bible has been reqorded and written hundreds of times. Its an unreliable source with unreliabke narrators who constantly contradict each other. Its something peoplle struggle to believe because it is unbelievable. It disproves itself. Thats the point. It doesnt matter who wrote jack shit if theres nothing to back it up but empty words. God, or a god, or higher being or whatever anybody wants to believe, wouldnt need a book. Those beliefs could easily be preprogrammed basic knowledge, but theyre not because its not organic. Its forced.
1 schmickler83 2018-02-26
That would explain a lot. But try telling most Christians that they base their life and spirituality on regular everyday authors of the ancient version of the "Religious Fiction" section of Barnes and Noble, and they'll more than likely tell you the bible is infallible because God wrote it and he's infallible. At the very least they'll resort to explaining it's problems and contradictions away as "mysterious."
1 420_bloze_it_feggit 2018-02-26
Yeah that’s not even close to being true. No Christian thinks god wrote the Bible. I’m a Christian and I realize the Bible is an invention of man
1 Lo0seR 2018-02-26
That is impossible!
1 joxL7Mulder 2018-02-26
http://whale.to/b/knight.html ->about jah -bul-on the name of the great architect.
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
Yahweh was an old volcano god before his name was picked to be the god of the Abrahamic religions. Where are the active volcanoes in that region? Yahweh also wanted animals sacrificed in his name. Strange.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I like you. :) You seem to be on the right track.
I'd participate, but I'm in the car. Maybe someone else can find the volcano that set off the plagues of Egypt.
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
Thera was the volcano from the Mediterranean islands that they say caused the plagues.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I've heard a little about this. It's quite a coincidence that all of the plagues resemble the local collapse of an ecosystem, contaminated by ash fallout, culminating in a last deadly plague, and an urgent exodus of religious zealots from the area.
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
Sure is a coincidence. I guess this is one of those things that can't simply be "adapted" by whatever religion that wants to take it. Everything else is "borrowed" from pagan rituals and older religions but it would be tough to fake a volcano.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Yeah. I think that the Bible is the first Big Revision of history. That certain family(s) captured in Babylon used the ancient texts there, mashed many together, and gave themselves a political and religious excuse to emigrate from Babylon into Canaan, claiming the area as their own "promised land". But their original location was closer to the Nile Delta.
Some of this thinking was inspired by Ralph Ellis' take on the exodus. But he kinda fuzzes over the gap of the Hyksos between Egypt and the (new) Babylonian/Persian empires.
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
Pretty much how I see it as well.. I always hear Ralph Ellis mentioned. I can't believe I haven't checked his work out yet. You gave me something to do. Thanks for the reply
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
I know this is a little off topic but the Sumerian creation story answers a lot of questions that the Bible had me thinking about. Enki becoming Lucifer and Enlil becoming Yahweh makes a whole lot of sense to me. Any thoughts on this?
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
I think so. The word for god in the old testament switches to "Elohim" frequently, which is a plural collection of gods. This "group" acts mostly in unison, not always, and they seem to be under authority of one who is more "ruthless" than the others.
But "Satan" is a minor character in the Bible. His "big appearance" is in the book of Job, and he's just an underling of god. He doesn't control much or fight with god the way Christian's like to portray.
And since Abraham came from Sumer, it seems a perfect fit, that this Sumerian pantheon of gods was converted into a Hyksos version. The "monotheism" side of it wasn't very dominant, until closer to 500bc, when it was used as a way to take over land from the Canaanites. There is no archaeological or written evidence from the time that shows heavy monotheism in the region. (besides the bible, edited later).
1 Fake01010101010 2018-02-26
Right on. I know that Akhenaten, who many researchers believe became Moses after he was kicked out of Egypt, is credited with creating monotheism with his Atonism cult. That's a whole different story though.
1 Omyfreak 2018-02-26
Well how come people that have the holy spirit recognize yhwh as their God?
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
You'd probably have better luck figuring out why people with schizophrenia see snakes on the wall.
1 ketoquest 2018-02-26
I just see snakes in the comments. Romans 3:13 "Their throat is an open grave; they deceive with their tongues. Vipers' venom is under their lips."
1 themeanbeaver 2018-02-26
David's story has great purpose: He is a terrible sinner, and God is patient with sinners.
Power of this world is there to be taken and plundered, it is the whiskey of foolish men. Saul falls and David becomes more evil than him. Nebuchadnezzar comes along and David"s kingdom is plundered and robbed. Darius comes along and Plunders Nebuchadnezzar Kingdom and so on it goes...
Righteous men need no worldly kingdom, they need no sword and no crown.
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
You don't understand God.
God temps no man to do evil, men must have it in his heart first...if he does Satan has the ability to move through that person, NOT God.
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
And you misunderstood the scripture about Saul...he was vexed with an evil spirt, THEN Gods spirit came upon him and had him play which caused the evil spirt to leave.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Nope. Has your faith impaired your ability to read?
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
No but apparently your anger has yours
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
And again, the man vowed...NOT God, the man made this decision...
And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, 31Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
It's funny, how you chose to snip off the part where he promised a burnt offering. You didn't even bother to finish the sentence :)
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
Yes, and in psalms they call a song a burnt offering and a melody a burnt offering ect.
I'm not sure you understand what your reading, and I'm not sure you want too.
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
This is was God said about sacrifice: (moloch is the God of child sacrifice)
"Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech. ..."
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
Again, he hated it saying anyone who did this should be out to death:
"You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods."
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin."
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Apparently he's jealous, and just wants the burnt kids for himself. :)
1 Upupabove 2018-02-26
This is what God said about sacrifice:
Deuteronomy 18:10 says:
"There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer."
Also, never use an NIV translation.
It says he gave his daughter up for the lord, as a nun would give her service...that's why she wept for never being able to marry a sister you had to go into service to God a virgin.
There is NO stating he sacrificed her.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
Ugh. Stop deluding yourself.
He offered her as a burnt offering, he did as he vowed.
You can lie to yourself all you want. I'm too tired to enjoy your mental gymnastics show, unfortunately. Good night :)
1 selfmindcontrol 2018-02-26
These two links have various commentaries/opinions on the two verses:
http://biblehub.com/2_samuel/24-1.htm http://biblehub.com/1_chronicles/21-1.htm
1 Hesperus_LVX 2018-02-26
The God of the Bible is the same thing as Satan. Satan is the God of Earth. The “real” God does not interfere with this word that much as Satan does.
1 boxcarauman 2018-02-26
Why and how did this downvoted so harshly?
1 MrsMadHatter04 2018-02-26
Because it was poorly researched and verses used completely out of context. Really, I'd assume if your going to post your going to do more research and make better arguments.
1 MrsMadHatter04 2018-02-26
Good info, I like that you researched into this stuff.
Looking into it a bit more in context it seems there is much more to the story.
My interpretation from reading the various chapters is that David's motives for the census where wrong, and probably that conducting a census generally was offensive to God, who had promised to multiply them like the stars in the heavens.
Also, Joab (who took the census) was against it and asked David why make Israel sin like this (by taking a census)? For some reason the tribes of Benjamin and Levi were even left out of the census too and the census never actually recorded (and numbers given are not the same).
So it seems to me Satan tempted David, probably using God's own words and promises to multiply his people, to conduct a census for war or tax or both, to continue more war outside his current lands (bring in more land, more forgieners, more richess, power, ect).
God I believe does not tempt. If David's heart was already turned to Satan's ear in the matter, even if God righteously commanded David to conduct a census, if he did it with evil motives it is a sin.
In fact, 2 Samuel 24:10 says that "David's heart condemed him after he had numbered the people.
God always uses the bad for good, one stone lays upon the next. The story ends with David buying and building an altar on the threshing floor of araunah the jebusite, which I believe (I'll double check) is the supposed site of the temple.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
There are too many to list, but they vary in importance. This is one of the more "devastating" contradictions, since it addresses the nature of "god" himself. For casual Christians, it may not mehtter, but for Bible purists, who think it's the divinely inspired verbatim word of god? It makes them... uncomfortable.
Here's a fun video that turns some of the more lighthearted contradictions into a game show.
1 Awesomo3082 2018-02-26
If you're going to lie about the verse, it would help if you could have an admin spez the verse, with its link, out of my post. It's kinda hard to pull off that kind of... lie, when the verse is available a few inches up on the screen.