Thank you for doing your patriotic duty of never questioning anything, and absolutely never looking at the evidence to decide if a claim is true or false.
I said above that the government has lied before. So what you’re trying to say is that because the government has lied, they lie all the time? That makes no sense friend. Also, those pages you linked to directly involve the government in some way. These are kids who went to the fucking high school. It’s apples and oranges.
So what you’re trying to say is that because the government has lied, they lie all the time?
No. Why is everything you say a straw man?
You are demanding that everyone accept the official story without question. The answer is: no. I will not do what I'm told, I will not accept the official narrative, and I will not surrender my AR15 or my .50 cal, no matter what words come out of your mouth.
Your OP is just bullshit you heard from civil rights haters about how everyone with a gun suffers from penis envy. I have a gun because I'm afraid of my government.
It's also clear you have no sense of history, because you categorically denied the possibility of staged events, which is why I proved you to be foolishly ignorant through historical examples. You don't even know about the FBI's long history of encouraging terrorism. Do me a favor, find out who supplied the World Trade Center bombers, and then we'll talk about your assertion that the FBI doesn't just go around asking people to commit terrorism (hint: you can listen to tape recordings of them doing this).
Your ideas are not as breathtakingly profound as NPR makes you feel they are. They're very basic iterations of "trust your government" and "don't look at the facts!"
I never said anything about removing guns! I said I’m a gun owner and want to keep them. There’s no way I’m changing my opinion on that either. I’m not trying to sway you that way. What I am saying is that I believe gun owners like us who believe in the crisis actor narrative are looking for anything to believe that he is in fact a crisis actor so anything he says against guns can be discredited, instead of actually fighting back with our own reasons why we shouldn’t seek to remove guns.
I don’t know where I categorically denied the possibility of staged events. I do have an understanding of history in fact, and I’m not trying to tell anyone to trust the government.
What I am saying is that I believe gun owners who believe in the crisis actor narrative are looking for anything to believe that he is in fact a crisis actor so anything he says against guns can be discredited,
I'm perfectly comfortable refuting any of the lies used by authoritarians regarding gun ownership. I don't feel any need to attack fake shootings because I'm afraid I might be wrong. It sounds like you just heard that idea somewhere.
I do have an understanding of history in fact
Then why did you say
magine if someone with the FBI came to you and offered you money to pretend like you witnessed a shooting and then be a social warrior in the media afterwards: first of all, the FBI wouldn’t even attempt to do something so stupid, second of all no kid would do this
I’m not attacking anyone, like I said I’m a gun owner and plan on keeping them. I think it’s better to approach this situation in a way that accepts the basic facts rather than trying to spin everything to a gun owners favor out of fear. Besides, the only “evidence” against this guy is incredibly desperate.
The problem is the ones giving us the basic facts lie about the facts they give us. Every possibility, including high school crisis actors, should be considered and investigated. There are far too many inconsistencies and question marks surrounding this event just to take the MSM's word on how things went down.
Let me point out that at no point did I comment on anything in your text at all except your obvious distress, hence my suggestions for other subs.
You read a lot more into my text than was there. Maybe you need to assess your own beliefs on this matter because you projected a whole lot of baggage onto a comment that was far removed from your reply there.
Who is denying that people died? The event can be arranged for and still have people murdered.
This is reddit, if you hear people yelling from the top of their lungs that no one died, it was all bullshit, yadda yadda yadda, no one died......you can bet that it might be people paid to be there and foster that idea. Creating that rift between people who want to find out more and muddying the waters as they go. Keeping more people on the fence is an easy goal. Fewer people who understand the efforts going on can't and won't say anything to combat efforts to marginalize gun owners or defenders of 2nd and the like.
There were even people saying no one died in Vegas as well. That they were all actors. Those shills/ignorant people have intent and a goal to make those who ask questions look like loony toons.
Not necessarily. We are suspicious that anyone actually died because we have seen before with these events that they will fake deaths along with everything else i.e. Sandy Hook. Fool me once and all that.
I want to do what? You should be speaking about something you know about. I personally don't make shit up. I sit on the sidelines and make distinctions based on all the garbage that gets tossed around.
Eventually you learn who fits in what patterns. Even you.
Crisis actors are used in real situations to control the narrative, e.g., if there were more than one shooter, people wearing body armor, etc., etc., they can't have witnesses saying that on camera if the narrative is going to be "lone crazy gunman."
Yes, the FBI would try to do that, and they have. Not all of them are that stupid/evil, but the ones in on the operation are. The fact they were running drills/simulations of this event before and during the shooting is the clue.
Most of us here (the ones I respect, anyway), don't have a fixed worldview; we're trying to cobble one together based on what's actually true.
You don't even understand the crisis actor argument. I'm sick of people having emotional reactions to things they don't even understand at the basic level.
Ok enlighten me with your insight sir. Tell me why this dude is a crisis actor. Did he act “too happy” for you on an interview? Was it because he was in California and somehow that means it’s impossible for him to attend Parkland HS at the time of the shooting? I would contend that you’re trying to find a loophole where there is none. So you made your own. I’m a conspiracy theorist myself, and I want to keep guns. It’s just frustrating when conspiracies are forced like this because it’s against one’s worldview.
These kids are being used to push a political agenda, following a major crisis. These kids and their fragile emotional state are being used like puppets (or actors), knowingly or unknowingly (I have no clue). The biggest sign to me is the fact that Hoggs father is(was?) a FBI agent. Hogg has excused the inaction of the deputy that was present during the shooting. To me, he is there to deflect the heat of responsibility that the local police and the FBI should incur. The government, local and federal, fucked up hard here. So a FBI agents kid is utilized to defer attention from that and get us in a uproar about the gun debate. He has been ultra successful at this.
Just bc we use the term crisis actor doesn't mean there were no deaths, or that Cruz is not the shooter, or that Hogg and others are in on it.... Simply that they are being used. At least, that's what I think it means.
You are in conspiracy sub complaing about stuff you clearly do not understand precisely because it upsets your world view. Ironic.
My world view is such that people are free to say what they want and I am free to pay attention or ignore them. If you don't like those freedoms, then you are part of the problem.
Oh you want to keep your guns but you feel for poor little fella Hogg? Riddle me this Batman what is Hogg at this very moment doing? Did people die at Parkland. Yep. Was it a horrible massacre on students. Yep. Was there crisis actors present. Fucking yes. Why? Because they are pushing a narrative. And that narrative is gun control. And little fella Hogg is key spokesmen. Right now he’s not gonna go back to school until they “fix” it. Which is ludicrous since “they” are the ones that arranged the whole thing.
Should start calling them media assets, it's naive to think the MSM doesn't control the narrative of major events by using people they want to parrot there message or to add drama when there is none.
It is definitely a horrific crime. You should consider directing your obvious disgust at the people that are trying to spin this to their advantage by manipulating the message. They are creating their narrative other than just reporting the news. Literally DIRECTING students what to and not to say, WRITING statements for students, and PRODUCING news casts that reflect what they want. Hmmm, writing, directing, and producing....sounds like a movie....too bad there aren’t any actors.
Nobody is saying people shouldn't exercise a good measure of skepticism. The problem is that almost every case, from 9/11 to the the Boston bombing and school shootings are immediately called false flags and people are labeled crisis actors. In the vast majority of cases, what is reported as happening is what actually happened.
Occam's Razor isn't just a quaint idea.
What is more logical and reasonable, using occam's razor?
A gov't plot where school shootings are faked (repeated over and over again) or armed assholes killing people?
When everything is a conspiracy, any chance of identifying real conspiracies are lost in the noise. It's also a big part of why people get so much shit.
This is conspiracy and people question the official narrative, ecspecially when here are reasons to. Not many think they are crisis actors, more like willingly being used for propaganda and fame.
How sick and twisted are you to deny these people that they actually went through this?
Those at the Florida scene should just consider themselves lucky that it isn't the existence of their entire school isn't being challenged like Sandy Hook.
52 comments
1 RoddyD86 2018-02-27
Im sick of this ill blindly believe anything i dont see but the media tells me!
1 Glen_Taylor 2018-02-27
Preach.
1 mikesworld31 2018-02-27
Keep believing that...
1 TheCIASellsDrugs 2018-02-27
Yes, always trust your government. Because they never lie about things like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
Thank you for doing your patriotic duty of never questioning anything, and absolutely never looking at the evidence to decide if a claim is true or false.
1 willvz1 2018-02-27
I said above that the government has lied before. So what you’re trying to say is that because the government has lied, they lie all the time? That makes no sense friend. Also, those pages you linked to directly involve the government in some way. These are kids who went to the fucking high school. It’s apples and oranges.
1 frighillary 2018-02-27
Have you done much research into Gene Rosen?
He is a perfect example of a crisis actor. If he exists - others do too.
1 TheCIASellsDrugs 2018-02-27
No. Why is everything you say a straw man?
You are demanding that everyone accept the official story without question. The answer is: no. I will not do what I'm told, I will not accept the official narrative, and I will not surrender my AR15 or my .50 cal, no matter what words come out of your mouth.
Your OP is just bullshit you heard from civil rights haters about how everyone with a gun suffers from penis envy. I have a gun because I'm afraid of my government.
It's also clear you have no sense of history, because you categorically denied the possibility of staged events, which is why I proved you to be foolishly ignorant through historical examples. You don't even know about the FBI's long history of encouraging terrorism. Do me a favor, find out who supplied the World Trade Center bombers, and then we'll talk about your assertion that the FBI doesn't just go around asking people to commit terrorism (hint: you can listen to tape recordings of them doing this).
Your ideas are not as breathtakingly profound as NPR makes you feel they are. They're very basic iterations of "trust your government" and "don't look at the facts!"
1 willvz1 2018-02-27
I never said anything about removing guns! I said I’m a gun owner and want to keep them. There’s no way I’m changing my opinion on that either. I’m not trying to sway you that way. What I am saying is that I believe gun owners like us who believe in the crisis actor narrative are looking for anything to believe that he is in fact a crisis actor so anything he says against guns can be discredited, instead of actually fighting back with our own reasons why we shouldn’t seek to remove guns.
I don’t know where I categorically denied the possibility of staged events. I do have an understanding of history in fact, and I’m not trying to tell anyone to trust the government.
1 TheCIASellsDrugs 2018-02-27
I'm perfectly comfortable refuting any of the lies used by authoritarians regarding gun ownership. I don't feel any need to attack fake shootings because I'm afraid I might be wrong. It sounds like you just heard that idea somewhere.
Then why did you say
when we know the FBI has asked people to commit terrorism in the past, including giving them supplies.
1 donaldtroll 2018-02-27
Here is a take from a european:
You wanting to keep your guns is almost as dumb as you trusting the government
ALMOST
1 _winterofdiscontent_ 2018-02-27
Maybe this conspiracy stuff isn't for you then. There's nice stuff over at /r/Eyebleach and /r/aww that might be more your speed.
1 willvz1 2018-02-27
I’m not attacking anyone, like I said I’m a gun owner and plan on keeping them. I think it’s better to approach this situation in a way that accepts the basic facts rather than trying to spin everything to a gun owners favor out of fear. Besides, the only “evidence” against this guy is incredibly desperate.
1 misto1481 2018-02-27
The problem is the ones giving us the basic facts lie about the facts they give us. Every possibility, including high school crisis actors, should be considered and investigated. There are far too many inconsistencies and question marks surrounding this event just to take the MSM's word on how things went down.
1 _winterofdiscontent_ 2018-02-27
Let me point out that at no point did I comment on anything in your text at all except your obvious distress, hence my suggestions for other subs.
You read a lot more into my text than was there. Maybe you need to assess your own beliefs on this matter because you projected a whole lot of baggage onto a comment that was far removed from your reply there.
1 rodental 2018-02-27
totally tubular tale brah
1 mygangwillgetyou 2018-02-27
Don't read them maybe?
1 bittermanscolon 2018-02-27
Who is denying that people died? The event can be arranged for and still have people murdered.
This is reddit, if you hear people yelling from the top of their lungs that no one died, it was all bullshit, yadda yadda yadda, no one died......you can bet that it might be people paid to be there and foster that idea. Creating that rift between people who want to find out more and muddying the waters as they go. Keeping more people on the fence is an easy goal. Fewer people who understand the efforts going on can't and won't say anything to combat efforts to marginalize gun owners or defenders of 2nd and the like.
There were even people saying no one died in Vegas as well. That they were all actors. Those shills/ignorant people have intent and a goal to make those who ask questions look like loony toons.
1 RecoveringGrace 2018-02-27
Too many paragraphs. Fight wall of text with wall of text.
1 gripyw 2018-02-27
words hurt brain arrrgggghhhhhhhh
1 misto1481 2018-02-27
Not necessarily. We are suspicious that anyone actually died because we have seen before with these events that they will fake deaths along with everything else i.e. Sandy Hook. Fool me once and all that.
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
The thing is, you don't actually want to learn more. You want to make shit up to fit your narrative.
1 bittermanscolon 2018-02-27
I want to do what? You should be speaking about something you know about. I personally don't make shit up. I sit on the sidelines and make distinctions based on all the garbage that gets tossed around.
Eventually you learn who fits in what patterns. Even you.
1 Fullofshitguy 2018-02-27
It looks like you've discovered your blind spot
1 whenipeeithurts 2018-02-27
Sick of the truth eh? Too bad.
1 MrMarmot 2018-02-27
Crisis actors are used in real situations to control the narrative, e.g., if there were more than one shooter, people wearing body armor, etc., etc., they can't have witnesses saying that on camera if the narrative is going to be "lone crazy gunman."
Yes, the FBI would try to do that, and they have. Not all of them are that stupid/evil, but the ones in on the operation are. The fact they were running drills/simulations of this event before and during the shooting is the clue.
Most of us here (the ones I respect, anyway), don't have a fixed worldview; we're trying to cobble one together based on what's actually true.
1 odd-meter 2018-02-27
“Why would someone do this?” “Why would the FBI do this?”
Those are some pretty solid arguments you got there.
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
Back atcha.
1 PhrenicAcid 2018-02-27
People will say anything on the internet, doesn't mean you need to pay attention to it.
1 nisaaru 2018-02-27
Mighty chilly here.
1 timmymac 2018-02-27
Shilly?
1 Odor_punchout_16 2018-02-27
You don't even understand the crisis actor argument. I'm sick of people having emotional reactions to things they don't even understand at the basic level.
1 willvz1 2018-02-27
Ok enlighten me with your insight sir. Tell me why this dude is a crisis actor. Did he act “too happy” for you on an interview? Was it because he was in California and somehow that means it’s impossible for him to attend Parkland HS at the time of the shooting? I would contend that you’re trying to find a loophole where there is none. So you made your own. I’m a conspiracy theorist myself, and I want to keep guns. It’s just frustrating when conspiracies are forced like this because it’s against one’s worldview.
1 Odor_punchout_16 2018-02-27
These kids are being used to push a political agenda, following a major crisis. These kids and their fragile emotional state are being used like puppets (or actors), knowingly or unknowingly (I have no clue). The biggest sign to me is the fact that Hoggs father is(was?) a FBI agent. Hogg has excused the inaction of the deputy that was present during the shooting. To me, he is there to deflect the heat of responsibility that the local police and the FBI should incur. The government, local and federal, fucked up hard here. So a FBI agents kid is utilized to defer attention from that and get us in a uproar about the gun debate. He has been ultra successful at this.
Just bc we use the term crisis actor doesn't mean there were no deaths, or that Cruz is not the shooter, or that Hogg and others are in on it.... Simply that they are being used. At least, that's what I think it means.
Anyone here disagree? Let me know
1 degenerateman 2018-02-27
No, you're pretty much on the money
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
They aren't being used. No one is forcing them to do anything.
1 Odor_punchout_16 2018-02-27
Says the sheep
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
Great argument
1 MiltownKBs 2018-02-27
You are in conspiracy sub complaing about stuff you clearly do not understand precisely because it upsets your world view. Ironic.
My world view is such that people are free to say what they want and I am free to pay attention or ignore them. If you don't like those freedoms, then you are part of the problem.
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
No one is talking about freedom. People can say whatever. Doesn't mean we can't call them fucking morons.
1 BigTgs 2018-02-27
Oh you want to keep your guns but you feel for poor little fella Hogg? Riddle me this Batman what is Hogg at this very moment doing? Did people die at Parkland. Yep. Was it a horrible massacre on students. Yep. Was there crisis actors present. Fucking yes. Why? Because they are pushing a narrative. And that narrative is gun control. And little fella Hogg is key spokesmen. Right now he’s not gonna go back to school until they “fix” it. Which is ludicrous since “they” are the ones that arranged the whole thing.
1 SasquatchKing26 2018-02-27
You are literally on a conspiracy sub complaining about people's conspiracies..... Go shill somewhere else.
1 RocketSurgeon22 2018-02-27
Mansplaining
1 GrinninGremlin 2018-02-27
Pearls cast before swine...or cows, as the case might be ;)
1 KJ_Jeller 2018-02-27
Are you of the belief that that makes it valid? Can anyone say anything and you will believe it?
1 ewwwwwzipties 2018-02-27
Don't worry OP, we all love you..
1 YoshiTakimatsui 2018-02-27
Should start calling them media assets, it's naive to think the MSM doesn't control the narrative of major events by using people they want to parrot there message or to add drama when there is none.
1 traillboy 2018-02-27
It is definitely a horrific crime. You should consider directing your obvious disgust at the people that are trying to spin this to their advantage by manipulating the message. They are creating their narrative other than just reporting the news. Literally DIRECTING students what to and not to say, WRITING statements for students, and PRODUCING news casts that reflect what they want. Hmmm, writing, directing, and producing....sounds like a movie....too bad there aren’t any actors.
1 LordBlackmore 2018-02-27
Nobody is saying people shouldn't exercise a good measure of skepticism. The problem is that almost every case, from 9/11 to the the Boston bombing and school shootings are immediately called false flags and people are labeled crisis actors. In the vast majority of cases, what is reported as happening is what actually happened.
Occam's Razor isn't just a quaint idea.
What is more logical and reasonable, using occam's razor?
A gov't plot where school shootings are faked (repeated over and over again) or armed assholes killing people?
When everything is a conspiracy, any chance of identifying real conspiracies are lost in the noise. It's also a big part of why people get so much shit.
1 banjopicker74 2018-02-27
I really wanted to read this but fuck, paragraphs man. Break it up a little so it’s easier to keep track of where your at while reading.
I am not a grammar stickler by any means but a wall of text is unreadable.
1 RocketSurgeon22 2018-02-27
Who cares what you think?
1 Upupabove 2018-02-27
This is conspiracy and people question the official narrative, ecspecially when here are reasons to. Not many think they are crisis actors, more like willingly being used for propaganda and fame.
1 seeking101 2018-02-27
he may be a real student that was there but hes been transformed into a puppet/pawn since
1 GrinninGremlin 2018-02-27
Those at the Florida scene should just consider themselves lucky that it isn't the existence of their entire school isn't being challenged like Sandy Hook.