The idea, if you're serious, is that with less guns overall mass shootings will go down.

People weren't sporting AR15s in the 1960s. (At least not stateside!) The problem isn't the shotguns and bolt action rifles and .22 pistols people used to associate with the 2nd - it's this "right" to own extremely deadly firearms designed to kill lots and lots of people quickly and efficiently.

Imagine there's a kid born this moment that's destined to be a school shooter. There's nothing that can be done, it's just fate - there'll always be people that try to do shit like that. The idea is, that psycho killer would be a lot less effective with a knife. So, hopefully, in 18 years, when he matures to his fateful end, he won't have access to a firearm.

What were the sales like, and how did they compare to other guns?

Show me the data.

Interesting fact: The AR is a favourite of terrorists

I was thinking more about Irish Republican terrorism but I think they used AK's as well, not sure.

My point was that 10 years later they're still rare, so yes, I used the correct tense.

Dude, this is your third reply to that comment, and it doesn't even relate to the comment. Take your fucking meds.

Id be inclined to believe someone as fucked up as you seem to be is on SSRI SNRI lobotomized fatass meds

yes but looking at the majority of the world, we don't have the need for guns to protect ourselfs.

Answer is there is no difference between what you just listed.

Just to chime in, I remember my dad telling me about going to multiple gun stores back in the 1970's. They have AUTOMATIC weaponry on hand and ready to sell it.

The one memory he shared with me was when he turned 19, in 1979. He went to a local gun shop and they had a M60 for sale. It was priced at $1,600. Keep in mind, this weapon is fully automatic. He also mentioned, they had AR15's and two fully automatic and with burst fire M16's.(How I wish I could have told him to buy the M60 knowing it's value of today.) The store was actually a sporting goods store, something similar to Dick's or Academy.

Back then, comparing the laws of then to now.... It is MUCH MUCH harder to gain access to a weapon similar. Back then it was a call to do a local background check, take 5 minutes of paperwork, and walk out the door with your new M60.

Today, if you were lucky enough to come across an M60 that hasn't been modified to current laws. You'd be paying anywhere from $50,000-$100,000 just for the gun. Then you'd have to send your fingerprints to the ATF, sign a whole bunch of paperwork, and probably end up waiting well over a year just to hear back from the ATF. Oh! And don't forget the tax stamp you're gonna be required to pay. And a local, state, and federal background check.

Even to buy an semi-automatic weapon, you're still gonna go through a local, state, and federal background check.

But the main thing I wanna point out is, if someone is a "motivated" individual. They're going to do whatever it is they're going to do. A good example of this is a man named Charles Whitman. He killed 16 people with a assortment of arms. He rained down fire with a bolt action rifle killing as many as 16 people. He also had a M1 carbine but at the range he was shooting it was ineffective. Only after CIVILIANS suppressed him giving the police a chance to assault the building he was in.

Charles Whitman showed what a motivated individual can do with a BOLT ACTION rifle.

I know, times have changed and so have the people's mindsets. Also, thought it was kinda interesting to note that after that mass shooting with Charles Whitman that took place at the University of Texas. There was NO call for gun control.

yea because times change.

no but guns are the issue.

The AR was invented in the 50’s and has been popular with veterans and hunters alike since then. In fact, before 1986, many of them were full auto and sold pre-Brady Bill, which means no NICS background check. So, we had readily available full auto rifles in abundance since the 1920’s, and AR 15’s since the 50’s. Just an FYI there for ya.

Wait, or maybe society and culture was different 50 years ago. Maybe the parents had spine and disciplined their kids. Maybe guns are not the issue, rather a carefree attitude towards raising a child. Maybe it's the fact that the majority of the mass shooters come from broken homes that were manufactured by the welfare state. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't with guns at all - but with a kid's upbringing.

Is it guns that cause mass shooting

I'm no expert but I think they probably make it easier.

Yeah, and it's a stupid fucking idea.

It's not rocket science. How would it not work?

Why hasn't it worked in Chicago? Baltimore? San Bernardino? New York? Places with extremely strict gun laws yet homicides by guns through the roof. Address that

Because guns are still legal you abosulete chug nugget

Check out the laws regarding purchasing guns in those counties and states dipshit

it makes it harder to get a gun

The goal is limit access to firearms for those that shouldn't have it and to attempt to mitigate damage done when a mass shooting does happen.

Society and the lawmakers we elect.

Some laws are federal, some are local. I'd like universal background checks to be national.

they are

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System

It does not apply to all sales and not in every state.

Who decides who let's me own a nuke? I don't feel safe when Russia has nukes!! It's for self defense.

In Montana we have plenty of guns per capita and pretty lax laws on person to person sales. Still no mass shootings in recent history.

It won't, but it'll make it harder to obtain assault weapons.

Is this the part where you spam gun jargon to stall the conversation?

Uh, because the way reddit works? Comments don't change the position of posts in the queue.

Isn't having a sign "gun free zone," inviting criminals into a place they know their firepower won't be matched?

Actually a lot of mass shooters actively fantasize about the shootout-with-police portion.

[removed]

I guess most of the antifa neckbeard fatass types have such fantasies?

It's about access dude. Cruz shouldn't have been able to get a gun because the dude was crazy. Why is it so easy to get a gun? It should be harder so we can weed out the crazy people who want to go on shooting sprees. This seems obvious.

Yeah that sucks. The only crime he committed was technically saying something over the internet. So the FBI should have come to his house for an interview. But we can't expect them to catch everybody who says dangerous things over the internet. Right now any crazy dude can just walk into a store and get an AR15 if they pass a criminal background check. It shouldn't be that easy to just get one like that when you're crazy.

Same idea.

Well I mean he directly reported himself to the police and they still didn’t do anything. The institutions let us down on a federal, state, and local level. I dont get why that would justify giving them more power?

I don't really see it as giving them more power. I'm infinitely more afraid of crazy other citizens than I am of the cops.

Im afraid of the future where my protection is only in the hands of police. In England you can get locked up for speech, or having a form or bicycle wheel on your person. The only thing that scares me more than that is how quickly we are outfitting American police with military hardware.

You can get arrested for having a fork in England? We should stop giving our police crazy ads weapons too. But part of the reason we do that is because the citizens have crazy ass weapons.

You need to be 18+ and show ID if you look under 25 to buy cutlery.....I do not want that in America. And no, you’re completely misinformed or just talking out your ass. We do it because our government loads up on military contracts that the military even says they dont need. Good example is all the tanks we have sitting in the desert out west. in a few years the military donates equipment to police stations because they have no use for it.

I understand we militarize our police for no reason. But do you expect to have the exact same weopons as the public? The entire point of them existing is to protect the public from itself.

Again, you are misinformed or talking out of your ass. The police exist to enforce laws. The “serve and protect” motto is referring to the state. Thats all. You have no right or obligation to have the police sacrifice themselves to protect you. By relinquishing any level of your capacity to bare arms, you are weakening the only constitutional right given to you to protect yourself from any threat, foreign or domestic.

Why do you think laws exist bro .m

To give the government control and power over its populace. Same reason why theres no major push to create laws that ensure the police have a constitutional right to protect you, to combat usurious interest rates, etc.

Wait you think laws only exist for the government to control you? What about all the laws that are written specifically for the government then?

It won't but they want to use your feelings to control you and get you to beg to have your rights taken away. And sadly now a days people can't seem to see that through their programmed opinions.

Hear! Hear!

Guns are bad ban guns no more bad

it's not feelings its actually common sense, if you remove the guns like we see from many succesfull places like Austrailia, there will be less access to guns, guns will become more expensive to ilegally buy which will drop the number of gun crime e.g deaths.

That has never worked anywhere it's been tried sorry. Great story but guns aren't for just personal defense they are also the reason that we weren't attacked during WW2 look up Yamamoto's quote about a rifle behind every blade of grass. They are our right and they our duty. We are all a milita of one.

you are delusional and wrong.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/las-vegas-shooting-australia-gun-laws-control-stephen-paddock-2nd-amendment-nevada-firearm-a7980671.html

I'm not delusional in the slightest and neither were the framers of the constitution.

And I'm definitely not wrong.

People who mean to do harm will continue to buy guns. Guns are sold on streets. All day every day. There is no way to stop that. So until they figure that out they will never be able to keep guns out of hands of humans that shouldn’t have them. People can say whatever they want but the truth is the argument is invalid because gun laws do NOT keep criminals from obtaining them.

There is no way to stop that.

BS. Where do you think the guns sold on the street come from? If the general population is disarmed then the criminals will have a much much smaller supply to sell from on the streets. In any European country your average person (not least your average teen!) will have a very hard time trying to obtain any kind of weapon, even a simple handgun will not be easy to come by.

Pretty easy to buy a handgun on the street in Germany. And other stuff via Darknet

I don't think your average teen would be able to go do that. Besides, illegal weapons are much more expensive than legal would be, so further stopping the would-be teen school shooter.

Your average teen isn't shooting up schools either.

illegal weapons are much more expensive than legal would be

"twelve hundred for the jeans stop playin a hundred dollars for the glock in my pants"

If you think the people will hand over their guns willingly you are an idiot. Disarm the gen pop????? This isn’t Europe. Invalid argument. Disarm those of us that follow the rules because that’ll get rid of the guns criminals get. Do you even have a clue how many unregistered guns float the streets?

Do you even have a clue how many unregistered guns float the streets?

Not a problem. Disarm the population and within a relatively short period those unregistered weapons will be confiscated by cops one by one.

Your average rage-teen is not going to go obtain ARs (and other guns) illegally on the street, a much smaller chance anyway and the price will be much higher.

Good thing some of us were wise enough to plan for this. Guess what? Gotta find them to obtain.

So you'd be willing to risk, say, 10+ years in jail for illegal firearm possession? Your whole life ruined? Your (potential) kids alienated? Divorce? No hope of decent job afterwards.

I'll venture that most people will not.

You keep saying Disarm the population as if it would be as easy as passing a law. How exactly would you accomplish this in America?

It's been done in other countries like e.g. Australia. So just research how it was done there. I don't believe the US is that special that it would be impossible there.

Just make a law and a buyback program (the government buys all the guns). After a certain date you're a criminal if you posess any unregistered guns etc. Make it legal to own certain (registered) hunting weapons if you have training and is certified. Etc.

Australia never had the gun culture that America has had.

Nobody have. But that doesn't mean you can't use ideas from other places, like f.ex. the buyback program.

Please go to some shithole country with that policy, to a criminally overrun area and remove yourself from the gene pool.

You are the one sitting in a shithole, but you're just too dumb to realize it.

If this doesn't happen in countries where there are gun laws.......but the anti-gun law arguments are 'people will always be able to get guns everywhere', and 'it speaks on society itself rather than access to weapons'.......are you inadvertently admitting America isn't the greatest country in the world????????

The US doesn't have gun laws? What?

How will more guns lead to a reduction in gun related crime and death?

This small town in Georgia passed a law that required every home to have a gun. Pretty big deterrent knowing you're going to rob a house where the homeowner has a gun.

"Still, the crime rate, not that high to begin with, plummeted after the law was enacted — by 89%, compared with a 10% drop statewide, according to published accounts."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/2048059

Most burglaries happen in the middle of the day when people are at work, a gun being in the house isn't going to be helpful if you aren't even in the house to begin with

You are correct. It appears as if the fear of an armed neighborhood is directly related to the drop in crime though. I'm a reasonable person and I'm open to suggestions. Do you have another explanation for the 89% drop in crime rate?

Do we know how many there actually were in their town? I can't find crime statistics anywhere aside from a backhanded comment in that article, but an 89% drop is the same as going from 8 to 1. The next year you could have 5 and and that would be concidered a 400% increase. See where I'm going?

Do we know if that crime drop was sustained for the years after? I can't find any stats on that? A quote of a one off stat is meaningless kek

I've looked and it's difficult to find stats. The law was essentially for show and unenforceable. So there was a big drop initially but once everyone realized you don't actually have to own a gun things went back to normal as far as I can tell.

But it still seems that just the fear or thought that every one is armed made people think twice before they broke the law.

Plus I guarantee that if gun violence went up 89% people would spam the shit out of it to show how bad guns are. Anyway good chat...

Has the crime rate been sustained? That drop was 20 years ago

Most rapes happen when a woman is home. Also drug addicts don't think well enough to worry is someone is home.

name the last mass shooter that had an illegally obtained weapon, and compare that list to the ones that had legal guns.

Murder is typically against the law. Yet it happens daily. It is the ease in which a deranged person can commit the act is the problem.

Many of these school shootings were committed by people who would not be allowed to purchase a gun under the current laws. Either too young or mental. They stole the guns from family, typically.

The state does not want civilians to be able to match their firepower.

All this gun control rubbish is about high cap mags and tactical semi-auto rifles, but handguns cause the most deaths. But never a word about limiting them.

yea no, this is wrong. When people refer to gun bans, tell me what is a handgun? Anyway if you look at the recent school shooting the kid stole his fathers legally owned guns. If guns where banned that father potentially wouldn't have any guns and thus save lives.

tldr guns have been a big issue for america for the last 100 or so years.

lol, typical American.

"Welp, the big sign that said GUN FREE ZONE didn't work, why waste time with gun laws at all?"

Future victim ? Welp, not as likely as you since I'm not an americuck

Sure. Enjoy your random gun violence !

the problem with criminals is they dont follow laws.

all gun laws do is disarm the people who do follow the law and make them easier targets for those who dont.

0 upvotes to 82 comments in 2 hours. How much is ShareBlue offering to brigade this post?

Good thing there’s plenty of us that were wise enough to know people like you exist and to plan ahead for bullshit such as this. Gotta find them to obtain.

The scariest thing is that this has been the CIA's goal since the 1950s. Remove the power of the people to rebel, the 2nd Amendment, through the dramatization of shootings.

got any proof for that random statement?

I'm quite far on the left side of the political spectrum but I'm pretty sure that even if you somehow managed to get rid of all the guns in the world you wouldn't lower the crime rate. There would be school stabbings/bombings/poisonings instead of school shootings. We have to change the mindsets, and I'm not convinced laws are a good way to do this.

I want you to look through your responses to this thread and ask yourself if any of your comments are anything besides an agreeable circlejerk or leading questions.

Just have an honest look.

Yeah, and it's a stupid fucking idea.

Im afraid of the future where my protection is only in the hands of police. In England you can get locked up for speech, or having a form or bicycle wheel on your person. The only thing that scares me more than that is how quickly we are outfitting American police with military hardware.

Pretty easy to buy a handgun on the street in Germany. And other stuff via Darknet

If you think the people will hand over their guns willingly you are an idiot. Disarm the gen pop????? This isn’t Europe. Invalid argument. Disarm those of us that follow the rules because that’ll get rid of the guns criminals get. Do you even have a clue how many unregistered guns float the streets?

I've looked and it's difficult to find stats. The law was essentially for show and unenforceable. So there was a big drop initially but once everyone realized you don't actually have to own a gun things went back to normal as far as I can tell.

But it still seems that just the fear or thought that every one is armed made people think twice before they broke the law.

Plus I guarantee that if gun violence went up 89% people would spam the shit out of it to show how bad guns are. Anyway good chat...

I'm not delusional in the slightest and neither were the framers of the constitution.