I could have sworn I read that this dude was MI-6 and was not a Russian asset. Maybe the Russians just said that. Maybe this maybe that maybe a lotta shit
No evidence this was carried out by Russian State has been presented. This is completely outrageous, and for May, the incompetent war-mongering cow, to threaten cyber attacks against Russia in retaliation is completely beyond the Pale. WTF!
when read reddit comments than its more like pre ww2. americans this days see russians same as the germans saw the jews. they blamed everything thats wrong on them too.
I just don’t understand what reason in 2018 Russia would have to kill a guy that they knew had flipped and swapped with the U.K. in 2010.
Skripal was known to Russia as a traitor (from Russia’s POV) 8 years ago. Why make an example of him now, 8 years later, at a time when the entire world is just begging for an excuse to levy more pain on Russia.
Also, why use a method that basically screams “It’s us. Russia. We murdered Skripal.”
It’s like a robber goes into a house and then thinks “wait, I better take my gloves off so I leave my finger prints all over this place.”
The U.K. and the international community is absolutely in the right to petition for answers, but to attribute blame immediately just seems short sighted.
So I guess we are left to think that Russia is simultaneously a master of espionage but so sloppy that they leave obvious finger prints everywhere.
Maybe Russia did do it. The issue I have is that the concept that Russia did not do it is not even being entertained.
I mean, fuck me for wanting a bunch of nations with nukes, run by sociopaths, to actually conduct an investigation before provoking each other.
On either side they both have enough nuclear power to destroy the entire planet several times over.
Individually they can each destroy the world. After a certain point the number of nukes don’t matter, the fact that you have nukes (plural) does.
And if number of nukes is all that matters then who the fuck cares what the US’ stance is? It’s irrelevant to the conversation if we’re just going on number of nukes.
100 nukes can kill the earth. The UK has 215. So the U.K. can destroy the entire earth twice and then some.
So who cares who has more when each power can destroy the entire world by themselves?
The SCO isn’t a formal military alliance. You’re making an assumption that the SCO would back Russia militarily in a direct confrontation. There is no formal requirement for them to do so.
Also, no, modern economists do not view war as beneficial for the economy. War being good for the economy is a fallacy.
You could argue a proxy war being good for the economy maybe, but direct conflict on your own sovereign soil would be an economic disaster for any country in the modern age.
If war is good for the economy then why isn’t Syria’s economy booming? Hint: Syria’s economy is completely fucked.
Sure and the issue between U.K. and Russian dick measuring isn’t a proxy war. It’s direct military conflict. Between major world powers, NATO, and sure possibly SCO member states.
Direct military conflict on that scale would be an economic disaster and every single one of those states know this.
You're right. Doubtful there will be boots on the ground -- on the actor's own soil. But boots may be on the ground somewhere. Hence the reason Germany is shoring up more troops, etc.
Ok my bad it wouldn’t be conventional military because every conflict in modern history is nukes first, conventional military second.
Conventional military only steps in after nukes are done falling
No this is stupid because after the nukes are done falling everyone is already dead and no military conflict in history has ever started with nukes launching first.
What the other commenter neglects to mention is the SCO is not a formal military alliance like NATO. It is an organization for economic and strategic cooperation.
China and Russia have repeatedly denied it’s ever even going to become a formal military alliance like NATO. So to assume every SCO member would back Russia militarily is an assumption since there’s not formal requirement for them to do so.
The Telegraph reported that if the Kremlin believed Skripal helped compile the Trump dossier, it could provide a motive for the assassination attempt in Salisbury.
A former Russian construction magnate told Channel 4 News Skripal was “working in cyber-security and every month going to the [Russian] embassy to meet military intelligence officers”.
The Telegraph said a “hit squad” was dispatched by the Kremlin to assassinate Skripal, to send a message that traitors were not tolerated.
UK intelligence services suspect the attack was delayed by the snowstorm that enveloped Britain last week, which kept Skripal and his daughters indoors and made the assassination squad’s escape from the country more problematic.
“By Sunday afternoon, with Miss Skripal on the brink of returning to Moscow, the assassination squad had little room for manoeuvre and were forced into action in broad daylight in the middle of a busy shopping precinct,” the Telegraph reported.
I find it hard to believe Russia is masterful enough at espionage to puppeteer multiple major world powers, but dumb enough to leave loose ends with ties to Skripal in positions at the highest level of the Kremlin over 8 years later. Yeah.
They don’t have to murder them. But contacts he had in 2010 most probably aren’t the individuals making high level Kremlin decisions no. That would require Russia to be very stupid, which if reporting is to be believed, they are actually quite good at this espionage thing.
An RT anchorman said after the attempted assassination that traitors should expect things like that to happen. Your error is the assumption that Russia wanted to hide this.
The guy was making a reference to former Russians turning up dead in England over the years. It’s not a tacit admission of guilt.
And sure maybe that’s my mistake. I generally think powerful individuals act in their own self interest. Skripal’s assassination isn’t well timed for Putin.
But Skripal may just live to tell his tale, so maybe we’ll get actual answers instead of conjecture.
It just conveniently happened to come after a Russian was the victim of attempted murder in England? He woke up that morning and during breakfast thought “I don’t know what’s going on in the world but I should probably warn Russians in England on my show tonight”?
Yeah, because once a spy is out of the country they can never contact any of their contacts ever again forever and evef. How about you come up with better bullshit.
Yes the interference campaign was orchestrated by the highest levels of the kremlin, but this disavowed spy had an in with just the right people.
The reporting wasn’t even that Skripal was the source, it was that he probably knew Steele. Circumstantial dot connection made him the source, nothing more.
You’re as big a douchebag as the actual Mooch himself. Well done man.
He could be the source or not, I can't be sure, but I'm not the idiot who tried to pretend Skripal couldn't have known anything just because he's no longer in Russia. Pointing out your lack of logic hurt your feelings too much? Well fuck off and throw your tantrum somewhere else.
Yes mine is the lack of logic. Sorry for thinking that perhaps disavowed spies 8 years removed from government contact wouldn’t have access to the highest of government inner workings.
And that maybe, just maybe, it’s hard to believe his former nation would kill him so obviously at the most inopportune time.
I’m not the one who started the mud slinging Mooch. Don’t come out telling me I’m pedaling bullshit and expect me to be in awe of your incredible intellect.
And no it would take someone of actual worth denigrating me to hurt my feelings. Keep on with that unearned arrogance you precious little wonder.
Hahaha, just keep hurling the personal attacks, that really shows me how unaffected you are.
Made an argument with faulty logic, get called on your bullshit, got your feelings hurt, start the personal attacks. That's the story of a reddit troll alright.
Why make an example of him now, 8 years later, at a time when the entire world is just begging for an excuse to levy more pain on Russia.
To show they can. To embarrass the fragile, (newly estranged from EU) UK. To prevent more spies from fleeing to the West now that things are heating up again -- essentially letting them know they will not be protected, etc.
Sure. I could also say it’s just as likely the CIA or MI6 killed him since everyone wants a reason to push Russia even further into a corner and sanction them to hell.
I’m not even saying Russia 100% didn’t do it. What you say is obviously valid.
The whole point was I’d like to see world powers actually conduct and finish an investigation before we start the nuclear dick measuring.
At this rate if China wanted us to kill each other off and leave them atop the economic mountain it’d be exceedingly easy to manipulate both parties into outright confrontation because we don’t even take one second to catch our breath before levying any and all accusations at Russia.
Theresa May said yesterday I think, that this represents an attack by Russia on the UK. I think you just found your answer, on why they are publicizing it. This is Oceania against the uh...the other guys. You know 1984 shit.
As someone who is neither Russian nor British and a conspiracy nutjob, my first question in mind was "who benefits?". Surely, Putin being the evil KGB agent would know that it's a lose-lose situation for him if he assassinated someone in foreign country? So who is actually benefiting? Are those the neocons who want war with Russia and Iran?
Another point I wanted to make is, recently there was news articles from UK about massive amount of girls being abused. This assassination has now covered most of the newspapers.
I’ve always seen the world through the eyes of a warfighter. I see Russia attempting to flex its muscles to see if the US and other countries will look down at the ground and walk away with its tail between its legs.
The assassination stories are still all over the news and technically is no less nor more important than the child sex rings.
If ANYONE is broadcasting that a double secret agent died by another countries hand, it's almost undoubtably for a specific political agenda.
They just don't tell us this shit, my friends.
Is true (is it?) - than an 'ex-spy' that's public knowledge since 2010 that publicly double-crossed Russia is the spy to go after.
Skripal was known to Russia as a traitor (from Russia’s POV) 8 years ago. Why make an example of him now, 8 years later, at a time when the entire world is just begging for an excuse to levy more pain on Russia. [/u/Fritz721]
Russia knows this leads to action. Russia knows this leads to sanctions. Russia knows this leads to attention. Rings a Syrian bell, doesn't
We have known intelligence community assets, analysts, and sources reading us our news.
We need to be weary of state sponsored propaganda. I know this seems absurd. But we're basically at a place where ex-cia and ex-intelligence are talking heads (and most likely anchors, but that's another story) for our news.
The only question is what our intelligence communities modus operandi is.
On one hand, you have american freedom, democracy, and sustaining the american dream. Think Obama's message. This is what's advertised.
On the other you have the absolute truth that US Inc is a corporation, one that is maintaining its dominance like every other corporation who values profit as it's bottom line - PR. Except we're dealing with PR on a global stage. Pipelines, currencies, resources, etc.
And hey. Maybe we need to continue to intervene in the middle east. Maybe we need to start a new cold war. Maybe we need to continue the dominance of the petrodollar against any state that dares to own their resources and use the profit as they see fit without debt.
But don't you dare believe that the IC of the US is working for me and you.
anyone can make an equally valid arguments both ways, with an infinite amount of variations for chaotic actors.
i just feel some parts of your argument supporting this are pulling from "no 'official' facts can prove me wrong, because they are all in question"
however, then that applies to what you are putting forth as well, plus its very subjective with intuition, even if in the end its correct
dots can always be connected, sometimes rightly, sometimes not.
how does rex being fired by trump right after this fit into this paradigm then?
making the story more legitimate, and using him as a patsy, whether he agreed with may or not, or trump resisting the narrative and firing him because he is fighting the narrative, or is to dumb or removed from it to know how to respond.
that recent development alone causes X! number of possibilities to form theory surrounding this incident
i just feel some parts of your argument supporting this are pulling from "no 'official' facts can prove me wrong, because they are all in question"
If by official you mean MSM fed by intelligence sources, yep. Again, that's the difference between /r/con v1 and v2.
It's somehow been slowly marched into normalcy that the same people that are taught and versed into mass manipulation and propaganda are just speaking straight to we the people, instead of the journalists investigating these same people.
Since when does exchanging captured spies with another country that's captured some of your own ever get publicised or reported? Clearly it's an embarrassment to both sides that they want to keep quiet not publicly admit they were even involved in much less caught in the act.
Moreover this spy was a Russian Intelligence official guilty of betraying agents of his own country for a $100,000 bribe and was caught and sentenced to 13 years for it.
He's hardly a hero, merely a less than scrupulous character who's loyalty to his country and those who worked with him for that country could be bribed and bought-off by foreign agents.
And as for any PR value, the story has only been made public NOW not when it actually happened and he was quietly swapped for a captured Russian agent and given asylum since he's chosen to be an exile from his own country rather than serve out his sentence, not "amnesty" as you call it since he wasn't guilty of anything in the U.K.
This all completely untrustworthy propaganda with MI6 getting some extra mileage out this former paid informer in order to conveniently blame the Russians for attempting to do him in.
This sums it up. People have all jumped on the anti-russia-hype train to a scary level. Can't even express a little of the opposite without being labelled a comrade.
Next steps will be tying Russian and NK together with some large event to justify more r/endlesswar
Since the UK was talking about the Telford child sex ring - 40+ years, 100's-1000's of children raped and tortured - this sure did happen at a VERY convenient time for the UK.
Since the UK was talking about the Telford child sex ring - 40+ years, 100's-1000's of children raped and tortured - this sure did happen at a VERY convenient time for the UK.
If ANYONE is broadcasting that a double secret agent died by another countries hand, it's almost undoubtably for a specific political agenda.
I agree. The desperate attempt to assign blame without due process is what makes me uneasy about this situation. I feel like they're using this person's murder as a mere prop for political theater to push for a retaliation against Russia. I don't understand why so many seem to desire direct war with Russia. It's either that they've forgotten about the basic idea of mutually assured destruction or they actually want mutually assured destruction.
Last year was an amazingly profitable one for arms sales. There were hundreds of billions sold worldwide. The US has a good portion of that, though Russia does well for itself. It's hard to keep that up if peace breaks out so I doubt most involved care about our demise. Or perhaps they're all playing us like fiddles and have no intention of using the big guns but do need those contracts so they spread some panic. It's a terrible game to play though as there are too many factors that could lead to the destruction of human kind. These people are corrupt and dangerous either way.
Or perhaps they're all playing us like fiddles and have no intention of using the big guns but do need those contracts so they spread some panic.
I think this is very possible too. Putin was put into power by being #2 behind Boris Yeltsin. Putin was chosen by Yeltsin to follow him too. This is interesting because the US meddled in the 1996 election in Russia to put Yeltsin in power. Thinking of this, it's interesting to remember that Putin has been close with both the Bushes and the Clintons. Maybe all this anti-Russia hysteria is a completely manufactured scheme and Putin is actually in on it, so nothing will actually happen to the US.
Countries can't respond to the killings in a measured way (with sanctions, etc.) without making them public. You can't convince people to pass sanctions, or other repercussions without laying the evidence out publicly.
Putin has been openly assassinating former spies since at least 2006. Of course there are simpler, less obviously connected to Russia methods of killing a person. That's not the point.
The point is to announce to the world, to every defector and would be defector, that there is nowhere in the world you can run. Putin will murder you, wherever you are, and he will get away with it.
for me it sounds like the "Hussein has WMDs" bullshit ... simply cant trust US/UK on anything they say, because they make up false flags like every year to attack someone somewhere on this planet
So who did this then? Both UK and EU are too busy with Brexit and refugee crisis to start a confrontation with Russia, US is ruled by Trump and they haven't pointed fingers at Russia so they probably didn't do it either.
Currently Putin and Russia are somewhat respected in Britain by its populous in stark contrast with what's being broadcast by mainstream media, a move like this would undoubtedly sway alot of people to view the Russians in a similar way the Americans do, with brexit on the horizon Theresa may would like our two countries to have a sense or unification amongst its people where currently America is viewed with more disdain than russia
Currently Putin and Russia are somewhat respected in Britain by its populous... sway alot of people to view the Russians in a similar way the Americans do
Theresa may would like our two countries to have a sense or unification amongst its people where currently America is viewed with more disdain than russia
This doesn't quite work since one of the main reasons why the popularity of US is tanking across Europe is because of Trump and that opinion isn't going to be fixed with hating on Russia.
Since never. Its just cold war part two ramping up a gear. West, UK and US are like bum buddies, so the other strongest allies of post ww2 world will also chime in against the opposition. Which is russia and brics etc.
Mass media and politics are being used to manufacture concent and public oppinion.
Putin no longer want to play nice. He doesn't give a fuck about the international community, which is just Western Anglo-Saxon ganging together on him/"his" country. His propaganda campaign for Brexit and Trump has worked great to divide the UK-EU-US political alliance. With idiots arguing that he didn't take the Crimea, invade the Ukraine or shot down MH17, and that he couldn't possibly assassinate an ex-spy because it's too "obvious", he's enjoying himself thoroughly.
Why would Vladimir Putin, in the midst of a presidential election, bother to knock off a minor traitor who has been living quietly in Britain for ten years and whose daughter visits him regularly from Moscow. Not only that but leave all the traces for the British police to find?
It is strange that there is a chemical weapons factory just 8 miles down the road from Salisbury. There are motives aplenty why the intelligence community in Britain wanted to have an inconvenient resident out of the way
The whole double agent shit could be a scam to have russia doubtful about their other spies. Why it got into the news in the first place is most likely due to all the other civilians who got poisoned
yeah good point it's the complete opposite of how the government usually keeps everything secret from the public. announcing it to the public solves nothing, it's not like missing kids on milk cartons or anything where the public could actually help.
Currently Putin and Russia are somewhat respected in Britain by its populous in stark contrast with what's being broadcast by mainstream media, a move like this would undoubtedly sway alot of people to view the Russians in a similar way the Americans do, with brexit on the horizon Theresa may would like our two countries to have a sense or unification amongst its people where currently America is viewed with more disdain than russia
I find it hard to believe Russia is masterful enough at espionage to puppeteer multiple major world powers, but dumb enough to leave loose ends with ties to Skripal in positions at the highest level of the Kremlin over 8 years later. Yeah.
They don’t have to murder them. But contacts he had in 2010 most probably aren’t the individuals making high level Kremlin decisions no. That would require Russia to be very stupid, which if reporting is to be believed, they are actually quite good at this espionage thing.
An RT anchorman said after the attempted assassination that traitors should expect things like that to happen. Your error is the assumption that Russia wanted to hide this.
The guy was making a reference to former Russians turning up dead in England over the years. It’s not a tacit admission of guilt.
And sure maybe that’s my mistake. I generally think powerful individuals act in their own self interest. Skripal’s assassination isn’t well timed for Putin.
But Skripal may just live to tell his tale, so maybe we’ll get actual answers instead of conjecture.
You're right. Doubtful there will be boots on the ground -- on the actor's own soil. But boots may be on the ground somewhere. Hence the reason Germany is shoring up more troops, etc.
94 comments
1 1atlas1 2018-03-14
WAR MACHINE! MONEY!
1 Esquan 2018-03-14
I could have sworn I read that this dude was MI-6 and was not a Russian asset. Maybe the Russians just said that. Maybe this maybe that maybe a lotta shit
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Yeah he flipped on Russia and was swapped to the U.K. in 2010. So they waited 8 years to send a terribly timed threat message.
1 JohnWicksPencil 2018-03-14
No evidence this was carried out by Russian State has been presented. This is completely outrageous, and for May, the incompetent war-mongering cow, to threaten cyber attacks against Russia in retaliation is completely beyond the Pale. WTF!
1 dukey 2018-03-14
The level of Russian hysteria must be at actual cold war levels.
1 willworkfordroogs 2018-03-14
It's almost at actual hot war levels.
1 Anontifa 2018-03-14
It's nowhere close and this talk is itself scaremongering.
1 Anontifa 2018-03-14
It's nowhere close and this talk is itself scaremongering.
1 Romek_himself 2018-03-14
when read reddit comments than its more like pre ww2. americans this days see russians same as the germans saw the jews. they blamed everything thats wrong on them too.
1 DonnaGail 2018-03-14
Good point.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
I just don’t understand what reason in 2018 Russia would have to kill a guy that they knew had flipped and swapped with the U.K. in 2010.
Skripal was known to Russia as a traitor (from Russia’s POV) 8 years ago. Why make an example of him now, 8 years later, at a time when the entire world is just begging for an excuse to levy more pain on Russia.
Also, why use a method that basically screams “It’s us. Russia. We murdered Skripal.”
It’s like a robber goes into a house and then thinks “wait, I better take my gloves off so I leave my finger prints all over this place.”
The U.K. and the international community is absolutely in the right to petition for answers, but to attribute blame immediately just seems short sighted.
So I guess we are left to think that Russia is simultaneously a master of espionage but so sloppy that they leave obvious finger prints everywhere.
Maybe Russia did do it. The issue I have is that the concept that Russia did not do it is not even being entertained.
I mean, fuck me for wanting a bunch of nations with nukes, run by sociopaths, to actually conduct an investigation before provoking each other.
1 TrumpHasCTE 2018-03-14
What if the robber is blackmailing the police chief and knows he won't take action?
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
So Russia has blackmailed the U.K. in addition to just Trump?
1 TrumpHasCTE 2018-03-14
UK isn't much of a threat to Russia without the backing of the US.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Sure they are, they’re a nuclear power and NATO member countries even excluding the US dwarf the military might of Russia.
NATO is more than capable of defending itself without the US’ help.
You do know the US is sending arms to Ukraine to aid the fight against Russian separatists right?
1 Anontifa 2018-03-14
Russia has an order of magnitude more nuclear weapons than all NATO minus the US combined.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
I’m talking conventional military.
On either side they both have enough nuclear power to destroy the entire planet several times over.
Individually they can each destroy the world. After a certain point the number of nukes don’t matter, the fact that you have nukes (plural) does.
And if number of nukes is all that matters then who the fuck cares what the US’ stance is? It’s irrelevant to the conversation if we’re just going on number of nukes.
100 nukes can kill the earth. The UK has 215. So the U.K. can destroy the entire earth twice and then some.
So who cares who has more when each power can destroy the entire world by themselves?
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
The question shouldn't be does NATO (-US) have more troops than Russia but does NATO have more troop than the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
Spoiler: The answer is no.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
The SCO isn’t a formal military alliance. You’re making an assumption that the SCO would back Russia militarily in a direct confrontation. There is no formal requirement for them to do so.
Also, no, modern economists do not view war as beneficial for the economy. War being good for the economy is a fallacy.
You could argue a proxy war being good for the economy maybe, but direct conflict on your own sovereign soil would be an economic disaster for any country in the modern age.
If war is good for the economy then why isn’t Syria’s economy booming? Hint: Syria’s economy is completely fucked.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
yes
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Sure and the issue between U.K. and Russian dick measuring isn’t a proxy war. It’s direct military conflict. Between major world powers, NATO, and sure possibly SCO member states.
Direct military conflict on that scale would be an economic disaster and every single one of those states know this.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
Sorry I just made an effort. Proxy wars and cyber warfare seem to be the weapons of choice today.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
You're right. Doubtful there will be boots on the ground -- on the actor's own soil. But boots may be on the ground somewhere. Hence the reason Germany is shoring up more troops, etc.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Agreed. And proxy wars are the MO for involvement in the Middle East.
Issue at hand is inflaming tensions between powers to the extent that it risks direct conflict.
1 Anontifa 2018-03-14
Conventional military only steps in after the nukes are done falling.
You ignore missile defense systems.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Ok my bad it wouldn’t be conventional military because every conflict in modern history is nukes first, conventional military second.
No this is stupid because after the nukes are done falling everyone is already dead and no military conflict in history has ever started with nukes launching first.
What the other commenter neglects to mention is the SCO is not a formal military alliance like NATO. It is an organization for economic and strategic cooperation.
China and Russia have repeatedly denied it’s ever even going to become a formal military alliance like NATO. So to assume every SCO member would back Russia militarily is an assumption since there’s not formal requirement for them to do so.
1 AzAnyadFaszat 2018-03-14
That's not in the news because the party they support in ukraine are neo-nazis.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
Answers your questions.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/europe/poisoned-russian-spy-linked-to-trump-dossier-author-reports-20180308-p4z3iy.html
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
I a guy effectively exiled from the Russian government in 2010 has access to top secret workings of the Russian government in 2018.
Got it. Makes sense if you don’t fucking think about it at all.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
He wouldn’t have contacts at all in Russia? They exiled him but murdered everyone he ever met?
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
I find it hard to believe Russia is masterful enough at espionage to puppeteer multiple major world powers, but dumb enough to leave loose ends with ties to Skripal in positions at the highest level of the Kremlin over 8 years later. Yeah.
They don’t have to murder them. But contacts he had in 2010 most probably aren’t the individuals making high level Kremlin decisions no. That would require Russia to be very stupid, which if reporting is to be believed, they are actually quite good at this espionage thing.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
An RT anchorman said after the attempted assassination that traitors should expect things like that to happen. Your error is the assumption that Russia wanted to hide this.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
The guy was making a reference to former Russians turning up dead in England over the years. It’s not a tacit admission of guilt.
And sure maybe that’s my mistake. I generally think powerful individuals act in their own self interest. Skripal’s assassination isn’t well timed for Putin.
But Skripal may just live to tell his tale, so maybe we’ll get actual answers instead of conjecture.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
It just conveniently happened to come after a Russian was the victim of attempted murder in England? He woke up that morning and during breakfast thought “I don’t know what’s going on in the world but I should probably warn Russians in England on my show tonight”?
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Go watch the segment.
1 MoochiMoochiMooch 2018-03-14
Yeah, because once a spy is out of the country they can never contact any of their contacts ever again forever and evef. How about you come up with better bullshit.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Yes the interference campaign was orchestrated by the highest levels of the kremlin, but this disavowed spy had an in with just the right people.
The reporting wasn’t even that Skripal was the source, it was that he probably knew Steele. Circumstantial dot connection made him the source, nothing more.
You’re as big a douchebag as the actual Mooch himself. Well done man.
1 MoochiMoochiMooch 2018-03-14
He could be the source or not, I can't be sure, but I'm not the idiot who tried to pretend Skripal couldn't have known anything just because he's no longer in Russia. Pointing out your lack of logic hurt your feelings too much? Well fuck off and throw your tantrum somewhere else.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Yes mine is the lack of logic. Sorry for thinking that perhaps disavowed spies 8 years removed from government contact wouldn’t have access to the highest of government inner workings.
And that maybe, just maybe, it’s hard to believe his former nation would kill him so obviously at the most inopportune time.
I’m not the one who started the mud slinging Mooch. Don’t come out telling me I’m pedaling bullshit and expect me to be in awe of your incredible intellect.
And no it would take someone of actual worth denigrating me to hurt my feelings. Keep on with that unearned arrogance you precious little wonder.
1 MoochiMoochiMooch 2018-03-14
Hahaha, just keep hurling the personal attacks, that really shows me how unaffected you are.
Made an argument with faulty logic, get called on your bullshit, got your feelings hurt, start the personal attacks. That's the story of a reddit troll alright.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Dude go read the original comment. Didn’t say anything definitive, just said I’d like to see more caution before provocation.
You’re the one who came in trolling. Go back under your bridge.
1 brandnewset 2018-03-14
And of course use a weapon that says RUSSIA on the side of the container. How covert!
These guys are stupid.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
You’re assuming Russia wanted to not be caught. I don’t see any evidence that’s the case.
1 brandnewset 2018-03-14
And evidence for them 'wanting' to be caught? Come on now, you would make a crap spy.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
To show they can. To embarrass the fragile, (newly estranged from EU) UK. To prevent more spies from fleeing to the West now that things are heating up again -- essentially letting them know they will not be protected, etc.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
Sure. I could also say it’s just as likely the CIA or MI6 killed him since everyone wants a reason to push Russia even further into a corner and sanction them to hell.
I’m not even saying Russia 100% didn’t do it. What you say is obviously valid.
The whole point was I’d like to see world powers actually conduct and finish an investigation before we start the nuclear dick measuring.
At this rate if China wanted us to kill each other off and leave them atop the economic mountain it’d be exceedingly easy to manipulate both parties into outright confrontation because we don’t even take one second to catch our breath before levying any and all accusations at Russia.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
Who says they're not already? PPP they are number 1 in the world.) 2nd is the entire European Union.
Word is though that their economy is in trouble. You know what the best thing to do to save your country's economy is? Hint: all of human history.
Guess who their geopolitical allies are.
1 KreepurZ 2018-03-14
It feels more like someone is settling old scores and old family debts.
It’s being publicized to put everyone on notice.
If you read between the lines, this seems like a warning not to cross someone
1 Step2TheJep 2018-03-14
The question is, why would any sane, objective person believe these stories in the first place?
Do we seriously believe that the newspapers exist to inform us?
Other than government and news outlets, what evidence do we have that this story is real?
1 Interior_Castle 2018-03-14
having worked at a newspaper, i believe that at least one newspaper exists to inform the citizenry of events of note in their area.
1 Step2TheJep 2018-03-14
Which newspaper?
1 Interior_Castle 2018-03-14
that is for me to know and you to find out
1 Step2TheJep 2018-03-14
I found out that you worked for a local newspaper with a readership in the thousands.
Hardly comparable to the major outlets.
1 Interior_Castle 2018-03-14
excellent work!
i didn't claim it was comparable to the major outlets. the point i was making was that your skepticism seems far too sweeping and unnuanced.
1 Ieuan1996 2018-03-14
Very nicely put. I appreciated reading this interaction! Quite thought provoking.
1 joshua_ray 2018-03-14
Theresa May said yesterday I think, that this represents an attack by Russia on the UK. I think you just found your answer, on why they are publicizing it. This is Oceania against the uh...the other guys. You know 1984 shit.
1 ArchonLol 2018-03-14
So you believe nothing then? You could apply this to nearly everything you could not witness
1 Step2TheJep 2018-03-14
Sigh Yes, because I do not believe newspaper stories, I must believe 'nothing'.
Herp derp.
1 Afrobean 2018-03-14
"Don't cross the Empire or we'll frame you for murder by using your 'calling card' and spreading false accusations through the media."
1 madtoothbrush97 2018-03-14
As someone who is neither Russian nor British and a conspiracy nutjob, my first question in mind was "who benefits?". Surely, Putin being the evil KGB agent would know that it's a lose-lose situation for him if he assassinated someone in foreign country? So who is actually benefiting? Are those the neocons who want war with Russia and Iran?
Another point I wanted to make is, recently there was news articles from UK about massive amount of girls being abused. This assassination has now covered most of the newspapers.
1 KreepurZ 2018-03-14
I’ve always seen the world through the eyes of a warfighter. I see Russia attempting to flex its muscles to see if the US and other countries will look down at the ground and walk away with its tail between its legs.
The assassination stories are still all over the news and technically is no less nor more important than the child sex rings.
War drums are being beaten.
1 heavyheavylowlowz 2018-03-14
...he was given amnesty in the UK after a spy swap a while ago, which was released to the public as such, and generally is done as such.
any gov would be happy to make the swap and amnesty public, as its a PR win.
can people here at least get the basics of an ordeal before misrepresenting things in a post
1 iam_we 2018-03-14
If this
Is true (is it?) - than an 'ex-spy' that's public knowledge since 2010 that publicly double-crossed Russia is the spy to go after.
Russia knows this leads to action. Russia knows this leads to sanctions. Russia knows this leads to attention. Rings a Syrian bell, doesn't
We have known intelligence community assets, analysts, and sources reading us our news.
We need to be weary of state sponsored propaganda. I know this seems absurd. But we're basically at a place where ex-cia and ex-intelligence are talking heads (and most likely anchors, but that's another story) for our news.
The only question is what our intelligence communities modus operandi is.
On one hand, you have american freedom, democracy, and sustaining the american dream. Think Obama's message. This is what's advertised.
On the other you have the absolute truth that US Inc is a corporation, one that is maintaining its dominance like every other corporation who values profit as it's bottom line - PR. Except we're dealing with PR on a global stage. Pipelines, currencies, resources, etc.
And hey. Maybe we need to continue to intervene in the middle east. Maybe we need to start a new cold war. Maybe we need to continue the dominance of the petrodollar against any state that dares to own their resources and use the profit as they see fit without debt.
But don't you dare believe that the IC of the US is working for me and you.
Even if they think they are.
1 heavyheavylowlowz 2018-03-14
anyone can make an equally valid arguments both ways, with an infinite amount of variations for chaotic actors.
i just feel some parts of your argument supporting this are pulling from "no 'official' facts can prove me wrong, because they are all in question"
however, then that applies to what you are putting forth as well, plus its very subjective with intuition, even if in the end its correct
dots can always be connected, sometimes rightly, sometimes not.
how does rex being fired by trump right after this fit into this paradigm then?
making the story more legitimate, and using him as a patsy, whether he agreed with may or not, or trump resisting the narrative and firing him because he is fighting the narrative, or is to dumb or removed from it to know how to respond.
that recent development alone causes X! number of possibilities to form theory surrounding this incident
also, your account is 6 months old
1 iam_we 2018-03-14
If by official you mean MSM fed by intelligence sources, yep. Again, that's the difference between /r/con v1 and v2.
It's somehow been slowly marched into normalcy that the same people that are taught and versed into mass manipulation and propaganda are just speaking straight to we the people, instead of the journalists investigating these same people.
Yes, I'm a deep /r/holofractal russian shill
1 heavyheavylowlowz 2018-03-14
how do you know the difference between v1 and v2 with a 6 month old account?
why did you post this off of a new account then, what are you hiding from your lurker account that you can't use it here?
it appears your MSA (main stream account) can't be trusted to post here then
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
Haven't you heard? Russia's gone all "Russia first! Buy Russian goods! Be a patriot."
1 Loose-ends 2018-03-14
Since when does exchanging captured spies with another country that's captured some of your own ever get publicised or reported? Clearly it's an embarrassment to both sides that they want to keep quiet not publicly admit they were even involved in much less caught in the act.
Moreover this spy was a Russian Intelligence official guilty of betraying agents of his own country for a $100,000 bribe and was caught and sentenced to 13 years for it.
He's hardly a hero, merely a less than scrupulous character who's loyalty to his country and those who worked with him for that country could be bribed and bought-off by foreign agents.
And as for any PR value, the story has only been made public NOW not when it actually happened and he was quietly swapped for a captured Russian agent and given asylum since he's chosen to be an exile from his own country rather than serve out his sentence, not "amnesty" as you call it since he wasn't guilty of anything in the U.K.
This all completely untrustworthy propaganda with MI6 getting some extra mileage out this former paid informer in order to conveniently blame the Russians for attempting to do him in.
1 Kendle_C 2018-03-14
Club Orlov Blog answers this question in his latest posting.
1 threetogetready 2018-03-14
This sums it up. People have all jumped on the anti-russia-hype train to a scary level. Can't even express a little of the opposite without being labelled a comrade.
Next steps will be tying Russian and NK together with some large event to justify more r/endlesswar
1 garyp714 2018-03-14
All the spooks know each other. Government officials know who the other country's spooks are.
1 medic30420 2018-03-14
Since the UK was talking about the Telford child sex ring - 40+ years, 100's-1000's of children raped and tortured - this sure did happen at a VERY convenient time for the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5487167/Telford-child-sex-scandal-involving-1-000-Britains-worst.html
Pair that with Tillerson getting fired just after he said Russia was "clearly" behind the assassination...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/tillerson-says-ex-spys-poisoning-in-uk-clearly-came-from-russia-vows-it-will-trigger-a-response/2018/03/12/b2717dd8-2648-11e8-a227-fd2b009466bc_story.html
IDK, just seems to fit a pattern we have seen before.
1 medic30420 2018-03-14
Since the UK was talking about the Telford child sex ring - 40+ years, 100's-1000's of children raped and tortured - this sure did happen at a VERY convenient time for the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5487167/Telford-child-sex-scandal-involving-1-000-Britains-worst.html
Pair that with Tillerson getting fired just after he said Russia was "clearly" behind the assassination...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/tillerson-says-ex-spys-poisoning-in-uk-clearly-came-from-russia-vows-it-will-trigger-a-response/2018/03/12/b2717dd8-2648-11e8-a227-fd2b009466bc_story.html
IDK, just seems to fit a pattern we have seen before.
1 xP_F0X 2018-03-14
I would say it's probably because he got poisoned with a biological weapon
1 Now_Drop_It 2018-03-14
Military grade chemical weapon?
1 UtopiaFrenzy 2018-03-14
This. Poisoned in a public place, with others affected
1 Afrobean 2018-03-14
I agree. The desperate attempt to assign blame without due process is what makes me uneasy about this situation. I feel like they're using this person's murder as a mere prop for political theater to push for a retaliation against Russia. I don't understand why so many seem to desire direct war with Russia. It's either that they've forgotten about the basic idea of mutually assured destruction or they actually want mutually assured destruction.
1 threeminuteshate 2018-03-14
Last year was an amazingly profitable one for arms sales. There were hundreds of billions sold worldwide. The US has a good portion of that, though Russia does well for itself. It's hard to keep that up if peace breaks out so I doubt most involved care about our demise. Or perhaps they're all playing us like fiddles and have no intention of using the big guns but do need those contracts so they spread some panic. It's a terrible game to play though as there are too many factors that could lead to the destruction of human kind. These people are corrupt and dangerous either way.
1 Afrobean 2018-03-14
I think this is very possible too. Putin was put into power by being #2 behind Boris Yeltsin. Putin was chosen by Yeltsin to follow him too. This is interesting because the US meddled in the 1996 election in Russia to put Yeltsin in power. Thinking of this, it's interesting to remember that Putin has been close with both the Bushes and the Clintons. Maybe all this anti-Russia hysteria is a completely manufactured scheme and Putin is actually in on it, so nothing will actually happen to the US.
1 toxic_banana 2018-03-14
Good point, good post.
1 whadupbuttercup 2018-03-14
Countries can't respond to the killings in a measured way (with sanctions, etc.) without making them public. You can't convince people to pass sanctions, or other repercussions without laying the evidence out publicly.
Putin has been openly assassinating former spies since at least 2006. Of course there are simpler, less obviously connected to Russia methods of killing a person. That's not the point.
The point is to announce to the world, to every defector and would be defector, that there is nowhere in the world you can run. Putin will murder you, wherever you are, and he will get away with it.
1 Nomar_Garciawhiner 2018-03-14
Hey op I think this theory might hold some weight https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2939ap/its_been_more_than_a_year_since_edward_snowden/cih651z
1 Romek_himself 2018-03-14
for me it sounds like the "Hussein has WMDs" bullshit ... simply cant trust US/UK on anything they say, because they make up false flags like every year to attack someone somewhere on this planet
1 psyderr 2018-03-14
Undoubtedly a false flag
1 NeverReadTheArticle 2018-03-14
Oh I see. You're retarded.
1 psyderr 2018-03-14
Why so nasty? Unfamiliar with history?
1 Funjam 2018-03-14
So who did this then? Both UK and EU are too busy with Brexit and refugee crisis to start a confrontation with Russia, US is ruled by Trump and they haven't pointed fingers at Russia so they probably didn't do it either.
1 badeljamso 2018-03-14
1 Funjam 2018-03-14
Kinda a pointless considering the two view Russia roughly the same.
This doesn't quite work since one of the main reasons why the popularity of US is tanking across Europe is because of Trump and that opinion isn't going to be fixed with hating on Russia.
1 badeljamso 2018-03-14
I question the validity and ability of a US NGO to establish global interest outside of mainstream media and heads of state.
1 Lord_Augastus 2018-03-14
Since never. Its just cold war part two ramping up a gear. West, UK and US are like bum buddies, so the other strongest allies of post ww2 world will also chime in against the opposition. Which is russia and brics etc.
Mass media and politics are being used to manufacture concent and public oppinion.
1 MoochiMoochiMooch 2018-03-14
Putin no longer want to play nice. He doesn't give a fuck about the international community, which is just Western Anglo-Saxon ganging together on him/"his" country. His propaganda campaign for Brexit and Trump has worked great to divide the UK-EU-US political alliance. With idiots arguing that he didn't take the Crimea, invade the Ukraine or shot down MH17, and that he couldn't possibly assassinate an ex-spy because it's too "obvious", he's enjoying himself thoroughly.
1 mozzypaws 2018-03-14
Why would Vladimir Putin, in the midst of a presidential election, bother to knock off a minor traitor who has been living quietly in Britain for ten years and whose daughter visits him regularly from Moscow. Not only that but leave all the traces for the British police to find?
It is strange that there is a chemical weapons factory just 8 miles down the road from Salisbury. There are motives aplenty why the intelligence community in Britain wanted to have an inconvenient resident out of the way
1 CivilianConsumer 2018-03-14
It's because Russia is defending Syria from the NWO.
1 wozzwoz 2018-03-14
The whole double agent shit could be a scam to have russia doubtful about their other spies. Why it got into the news in the first place is most likely due to all the other civilians who got poisoned
1 irondumbell 2018-03-14
yeah good point it's the complete opposite of how the government usually keeps everything secret from the public. announcing it to the public solves nothing, it's not like missing kids on milk cartons or anything where the public could actually help.
1 badeljamso 2018-03-14
Currently Putin and Russia are somewhat respected in Britain by its populous in stark contrast with what's being broadcast by mainstream media, a move like this would undoubtedly sway alot of people to view the Russians in a similar way the Americans do, with brexit on the horizon Theresa may would like our two countries to have a sense or unification amongst its people where currently America is viewed with more disdain than russia
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
I find it hard to believe Russia is masterful enough at espionage to puppeteer multiple major world powers, but dumb enough to leave loose ends with ties to Skripal in positions at the highest level of the Kremlin over 8 years later. Yeah.
They don’t have to murder them. But contacts he had in 2010 most probably aren’t the individuals making high level Kremlin decisions no. That would require Russia to be very stupid, which if reporting is to be believed, they are actually quite good at this espionage thing.
1 windrage2738381 2018-03-14
An RT anchorman said after the attempted assassination that traitors should expect things like that to happen. Your error is the assumption that Russia wanted to hide this.
1 Fritz721 2018-03-14
The guy was making a reference to former Russians turning up dead in England over the years. It’s not a tacit admission of guilt.
And sure maybe that’s my mistake. I generally think powerful individuals act in their own self interest. Skripal’s assassination isn’t well timed for Putin.
But Skripal may just live to tell his tale, so maybe we’ll get actual answers instead of conjecture.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
Sorry I just made an effort. Proxy wars and cyber warfare seem to be the weapons of choice today.
1 candacebernhard 2018-03-14
You're right. Doubtful there will be boots on the ground -- on the actor's own soil. But boots may be on the ground somewhere. Hence the reason Germany is shoring up more troops, etc.