Could it be because of a need to protect a lie?

How dare you, my grandpa was turned into a lampshade.

I’m not saying no one died in those camps. I’m asking why can’t it be questioned?

Don’t be afraid to say no one died in those camps. Next to the sappy Anne Frank story that’s been indoctrinated in every child’s head, these camps were nothing but work camps.

Saying no one died there is ridiculous. They were forced labor camps, and even though the "death by lots of pesticides" angle is ludicrous, there were some fairly rough conditions. And near the end of the war most of them were left to starve. A few hundred thousand of them died from it, after all.

I agree, I’m sure a lot of people died but I was trying to defend the fact that a holocaust didn’t happen. Could’ve worded it better.

Perhaps the point to be made is that they were not extermination camps, per se, but rather forced labor camps. Lots of people died under horrible conditions, but the narrative that the Jews were being deliberately exterminated is false.

It may be possible, however, that the Freemasons were being exterminated. That's an interesting twist I just came upon recently.

There was typhus, delousing facilities to prevent typhus, and ovens to incinerate typhus-infected corpses. People died there and they died horribly. These are facts.

Yeah, not a single Jew died in those work camps, just 10 million Russians. But the Jews were tougher than that.

And people die in work camps.

My lampshade was turned into a grandpa. So I guess we're even.

Would have been a really big lie. I’m actually very interested in this topic. But how would they have fabricated all the photos and first-hand accounts, amongst other clear cut evidence. I’d really like to hear the other side of this and discuss. It’s always intrigued me. One of my first favorite conspiracies.

Good arguement.

The best why I could figure is the holocaust to a point but not the degree we were taught and it wasn’t systematic genocide. More of labor prison camps with less than terrible quality. So people died was it really six million Jews? Probably not. But did the Zionist’s seize the opportunity to inflate fact to fiction in order to obtain homebase Israel froma UN pity party? Possibly. Take into account the ferrying of certain nazi doctors and military personnel to American soil and Argentina and the whole thing gets fuzzy, plus the CIA was incontact with hitler who also managed to flee to Argentina, or Venezuela?

It’s all weird.

Less than terrible quality? You know they had maternity wards and a swimming pool? A bordel? A post office? The german camps were a 5 star resort compared to the soviet gulags.

The camps were actually unusually well furnished (for a prison labor camp...), as you could only expect from the Germans. But yes, they went to hell when first the civilian society collapsed, followed by the collapse of the State. History and Hollywood portray the camps as having been like they were when we found them, for the whole war. Which isn't true.

Auschwitz had a swimming pool for the inmates!

Yes but it was filled with acid

Whoa! Dude!

Allies destroyed the supply lines to Aushwitz and others, resulting in starvation at the end of the war.

The official Holocaust story is even more absurd than the official 9-11 story.

Hey thanks for the link. I’ll look forward to watching it in the morning!! Seems very intriguing.

You're welcome.

Here are a couple more that you might find as intriguing.

Benjamin H. Freedman 1961 speech

Some taboo history from 1878-2006(long)

Careful. This is the real read pill. Taking this red pill is the end of naivete. After this one, you will just be left questioning everything, because if this wasn't true, then what the hell is? And my personal opinion, after years of research... I feel very confident in saying that it is a massive exaggeration, and in many points an outright fabrication. Essentially atrocity propaganda to cover up for the fact that the financial bloc of England, France, USA aggressively declared war on Central Europe, invaded, firebombed everything in sight, all to spread their market over the whole European continent.

The European Economic Community, the initial shell of the European Union, was founded in 1951, 6 years after the end of the war. That's no coincidence. That war was waged to found a European empire. An opponent controlled that space, and had an economy that was productive enough that it did not rely on England, France, USA. This was also the reason behind World War 1. Another war aggressively declared by England, as the first actor. Just like World War 2. As a bonus we destroyed the Japanese empire. All of this was Machiavellian, from every side. They try to frame our massive, aggressive offensive against an entire continent as a humanitarian mission.

When you see that most of Britain's military action against Germany in World War 2 was not directed against military targets at all... that changes things. The RAF just firebombed whole civilian cities. When you see footage of Germany at the end of World War 2, even all the civilian buildings are blown apart. We utterly razed a first world country to the ground, because their leader would not join our financial bubble. You can't justify a story of yourselves as the good guys moving into the future after an incident like that. Their PR geniuses have used the Holocaust as our saving grace, the thing that makes the fact that we went all the way across an ocean, and invaded a foreign country of first world people and utterly destroyed anyone and everything in sight, a moral action. We can still be the Red, White and Blue, even after all that, as long as we are the good guys, right?

You'll see all the evidence, though. The fact that 6 million is a meme dating back to the turn of the century. That even though 4 million of the 6 million deaths were supposed to be at Auschwitz, and even though the Auschwitz deaths have been revised down to 1 million, the 6 million number hasn't dropped down to 3 million. 6 million is a magical number, a meme. You'll see that even though all the way back in the 1930s, when gas chambers were already hermetically sealed chambers with ship steel doors, and a big handwheel, the German gas chambers were just rooms, with wooden doors. Two inch gaps between the door and the floor. No proper ventilation. The guards would have gassed themselves. You'll see that the original claims included Jewish fat and skin being turned into soap and lampshades, which even the official story relents on today.

You'll see that the camps had brothels, soccer fields, musical instruments, etc. I'm not trying to portray them as a Sandals resort or anything, the point is that, in an industrial death camp, these would not be there. It was an internment camp, a forced labor camp where Jews, gypsies, Slavs, and other "undesirables" were interned as slave labor essentially, for the war effort. Once again, not trying to defend this, I'm just trying to say what I believe is the real truth. You'll see that every single camp that is accused of being a "death camp", and not just an internment camp, was on the "wrong" side of the Iron Curtain, in Soviet territory. Beyond the eyes of the West, including the Allied powers and the Red Cross. The Allies and the Red Cross both surveyed every camp that fell within Allied territory, which was most of them, and they were cleared of any chance of them being "death camps". All we know about the Holocaust is on the Soviet's word.

This is usually the part where people say, "But the pictures, the bodies, the shaved heads, what about those?". We got firsthand access to these camps for the first time in 1945. We had utterly destroyed Germany's civilian infrastructure much earlier than that. The country lay in ruins. There were no more deliveries, no more functioning society. These people were locked in what essentially were prisons, that had run out of food supplies, run out of medicine. There was a massive typhus epidemic, spread by lice, which means that everyone had their heads shaved, and had to be deloused. Which is the source of the gassing legend. These people starved, died of thirst, died of typhus and sickness, while locked in prison, as the country they were imprisoned by had been utterly destroyed. A tragic end, but not the one described to us by history.

You forgot to mention the impossibility of incinerating millions of bodies to ash in the time frame claimed, no proof of these mass graves to be found and the Germans not having the resources required to keep human incinerators running non stop.

It takes a shitload of time and energy to incinerate just one human body, let alone millions.

I've done the math myself. There was enough capacity in the ovens to incinerate more than the ammount claimed.

Can you show your working?

1x6 000 000

Simple, as we are talking maximum capacity we can ignore breakdowns, shift change, etc. We don't know much detail besides they were operating 24/7 most of the time.

The crematorium had forty-six retorts, each with the capacity for three to five persons. The burning in a retort lasted about half an hour. It took an hour a day to clean them out. Thus it was theoretically possible to cremate about 12,000 corpses in twenty four hours or 4,380,000 a year.

Now that's the maximum capacity and it was more likely less due to exterior influences. But that's still up to 4.38 million a year cremated.

Now it's your turn to show how it's impossible. What numbers did you derive that convinces you that. How much is possible?

Where did you pull those numbers from? Source your claims!
I don't know how you seem to know they were operating 24/7, but I do know that it doesn't take 30 minutes to cremate five bodies. It takes around 3 hours to cremate one body alone. Also, which crematorium are you talking about?

This is maximum capacity. You missed my premble. Witnesses did state they were operating around the clock. However there were breakdowns and Crematorium I was shut down in Auschwitz for instance.

This simply shows it was possible to burn that many bodies.

It also does not take 3 hours to cremate one body. Today's crematorium takes under an hour and a half to fully cremate and clean the furnance for the next body. Witnesses at the Auschwitz trials stated they let the bodies finish burning in the ash tray and used the bodies as additional fuel. The witnesses said 25 minutes a body, even less than I used.

Now your turn, where is your math?

So... No sources other than "witnesses"?

Witnesses at the Auschwitz trials are sources. You also have german documents as they optimized how to preserve fuel. Follow my source to the Auschwitz Trials and see for yourself.

Still waiting on your math or anything from you with how you came to the conclusiom it's improsible.

Well firstly you didn't provide any sources, and secondly I don't have to provide you with any maths to try to prove the contrary because I never made the claim that it was impossible.
I just asked for your working and sources.

You need to do some serious research if you don't even know about the Auscheitz trials and all the associated witness testimony and Nazi documents.

bodies are fuel? you cant use bodies to burn other bodies. a body doesnt burn by itself. compare modern crematorium ovens and the time they need to cremate a body to the primitive ovens used in ww2. magic ovens and magic self burning bodies which can even be used as fuel? wow this must have been a period full of magic

Fat can be used as a fuel. Theres actually been cases of modern day crematoriums catching on fire from obese cremations.

Let's compare modern crematoriums. They burn one body at a time and get cleaned every time. That's heating up, burning the body, cooling down, and cleaning. Most take 1.5 hours with some efficient ones down to an hour per process. Meanwhile you have a constant fire with nothing else.

As in Treblinka, the stoking gangs sorted out the bodies into combustibility categories: strong men, women, children, and Musselmans. The SS staff had performed earlier experiments to find ways to economize on fuel – with the help of Topf and Sons, civilian experts: In the course of these experiments corpses were selected according to different criteria and the cremated. Thus the corpses of two Musselmans were cremated together with those of two children or the bodies of two well-nourished men together with that of an emaciated woman, each load consisting of three, or sometimes, four bodies. Members of these groups were especially interested in the amount of coke required to burn corpses of any particular category, and in the time it took to cremate them. During these macabre experiments different kinds of coke were used and the results carefully recorded.

Afterwards, all corpses were divided into the above-mentioned categories, the criterion being the amount of coke required to reduce them to ashes. Thus it was decreed that the most economical and fuel-saving procedure would be to burn the bodies of a well-nourished man and an emaciated woman, or vice versa, together with that of a child, because, as the experiments had established, in this combination, once they had caught fire, the dead would continue to burn without any further coke being required.[41]

Henryk Tauber, a member of a Sonderkommando who worked in several of Birkenau’s gas chambers, stated after the war: “We worked in two shifts, a day shift and a night shift. On average, we incinerated 2,500 bodies a day.”[4] Tauber also described how the muffles were filled with multiple bodies:

The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . .

We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women’s bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman’s body to accelerate the combustion.[5]

Generally speaking, we burned four or five bodies at a time in one muffle, but sometimes we charged a greater number of bodies. It was possible to charge up to eight ‘Muselmanns.’[6]

Filip Müller, also a member of a Sonderkommando that cremated bodies, confirmed the process of multiple cremations in his memoirs. The bodies were sorted according to their combustibility: for the bodies of the well-nourished were to help burn the emaciated. Under the direction of the Kapos, the bearers began sorting the dead into four stacks. The largest consisted mainly of strong men, the next in size were women, then came children, and lastly a stack of dead Mussulmans, emaciated and nothing but skin and bones. This technique was called ‘express work,’ a designation thought up by the Kommandoführers and originating from experiments carried out in crematorium 5 in the autumn of 1943. The purpose of these experiments was to find a way of saving coke [coal] . . . Thus the bodies of two Mussulmans were cremated together with those of two children or the bodies of two well-nourished men together with that of an emaciated woman, each load consisting of three, or sometimes, four bodies.[7]

It was a fabrication to not only establish Israel but to cover up the Jewish invention of the trans-atlantic slave trade.

Look up the Balfour Declaration, the establishment of Israel started long before the holocaust.

All of the accounts of WW2 portray Germany as the aggressor. Did Hitler not invade several neighbouring countries?

No, he united them.

Germany reclaimed land and peoples that all of Europe generally agreed was rightfully theirs, and whose population was largely German and wished to be a part of Germany. The Saar, Austria, Sudentenland, Bohemia/Moravia as protectorates, this was all done without firing a shot. Danzig was a german city and had always belonged to Germany. Hitlers terms to Poland were extremely modest in early '39. Hitler wanted an Alliance with Poland and wanted to work together to solve the issue of Danzig (and its German population striving to return to Germany). He wanted an Alliance with Poland to form a bullwork against what was always his most sworn enemy, the Bolsheviks to the east. This is all well known documented information. Hitler never wanted war with all of Europe, quite the contrary, he wanted to save it from what was happening to the East.

The whole 'we would all be speaking German right now' thing is so far removed from reality it makes me question everything I've ever learned in 'history' class. Wars are never black and white, good and evil. If you are told the mightiest war of all time was the ONLY war of Good vs Evil, you should be questioning the shit out of that. Look up Rudolf Hess, why Germany let the Allies go at Dunkirk, What the European continent thought of Versaille a decade after signature, the effects of Comintern burning through Germanny and Europe, the tidal wave of mass murder next door to Germany during the Russian Revolution, the Havarra Transfer Agreement, on and on. Not saying 'Germany was actually the good guys', but I am saying 8th grade history class teaches you NOTHING about WWII.

how do you explain him invading Czechoslovakia then?

Czechoslovakia was a fake country created in the post WWI plundering the victors partook in.Half its inhabitants wanted out from under its rule. Half of CZ was Czech, the other half a mish mash of repressed minorities that included Germans, Hungarians, Slovaks, Ruthenians and Poles who were never given the option of 'self determination' that was said to be the foundation of Versailles. For two decades after Versaille petitions were made by these minorities to the League of Nations to get out from under Czech rule. Czech leadership was a racist fraud that oppressed half its population. HN Brailsford (google him) said of Versailles that the "worst offence was the subjection of over 3 million Germans to Czrech rule." Hungary and Poland also took bites out of 'Czechoslovakia' around this time (ie reclaimed their people and land)

European statesmen at the time, generally, did not see much of an issue here. Again, Germany wanted to unite Germans. Why fight WWII over that? Real answer is deeeeeeeeeep down the rabbit hole.

So why did he invade France then?

France declared war on Germany. Tactics/geography/economics/realpolitik mandated Blitzkrieg as a means of survival after Britain and France declared war on Germany. Blitzkrieg ended at Dunkirk, where the allied escape is 'hotly contested among historians' - ie the Nazis let them go but it doesn't fit in with the history books so the waters need muddying.

I am actually dying with laughter at your attempts of watering down what it actually is - illegally occupying and invading other countries, one in which no country has the right to do. How do you excuse the countless of innocent men, women and children that were subsequently killed, placed into concentration camps or raped because of the Nazi invasions? Occupying the Rhineland is fair enough, invading Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands and attempting to invade the USSR and all of Europe inevitably, stop justifying the dictator scumbag.

yawn. Be specific. Not gonna argue with your feelings. if you think Germany wanted to enslave a continent you haven't thought this through.

So why exactly did Hitler invade half of Europe again?

What about Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg? Or Yugoslavia?

When you loose a war your people are often slaughtered. France and Britain declared war on Germany. Germany could not win a war without securing iron through Norway, or a way around the Maginot line through Belgium, and so on. Faulting a country for preemptively securing strategic means of surviving an ongoing war is ludicrous. Asking Germany to let her enemies come to them is akin to asking them to not play to their strengths, allow the enemy to play to theirs, all with tens of millions of your peoples lives on the line, is beyond comprehension.

Honestly dude, I know I'm just some guy on the internet, but many many books, even mainstream NYT bestsellers, frame WWII as 'unnecessary'. Britain's war guarantee to Poland, a country every bit as anti-democratic and anti-semetic and thuggish as '30s Germany, was the greatest blunder of the 20th century. Churchill is the greatest war hawk in modern history. He would be remembered far far differently if his side lost.

Britain and France declared war on Germany as they has garuanteed Polands independence, while Germany was rapidly expanding in central Europe and annexing states left and right. Can you really blame them for that?

1) Poland independence was never at risk. Germany wanted Danzig back and a highway, something all statesmen at the time thought modest of Hitler. Germany also wanted an alliance with Poland to fend off the Russians. There were never plans to claim all of Poland as part of the Reich. This narrative of Germany wanting to enslave all Non-Germans is wholly false

2) Britain's backing amounted to no tangible benefit for the defense of Poland. Brits were not fighting side by side with Poles against the invading Nazis and the country knew they had no means of helping Poland if Germans were to invade. Poland was used, a gambit employed by the real decision makers.

3) The anti semetic, anti democratic thugs who ran poland at the time were looked down on by most all of western Europe. Emboldening them and encouraging military risk-taking over diplomacy is not in the interest of peace. Applauding yourself for 'protecting the little guy' while you risk world war is extremely idiotic. Disney movies are not realpolitik.

4) Hindsight being 20/20, and knowing how history played out after, how can an argument be made that the War guarantee was the right decision? What decision could have been worse? 60 million dead. All so that Poland could swing its dick around for a few months before its four decades as a Soviet satellite. Didn't hear much from the French or British then.

1. Never at risk? Is that why they were invaded after they refused to hand over the Danzing Corridor?

Maybe they didnt want to enslave anyone who wasnt german, but they sure wanted to enslave millions of slav. Are you aware of the terms Lebensraum and Generalplan Ost?

1. Maybe because it would be insanely difficult to supply an army that would be immediately landlocked as Poland only had access to the sea by a narrow corridor, through a sea controlled by Germany? The plan was to go go east from France.

2. That they were also antisemitic didnt matter. What was important was to stop Hitlers expansionisitic tendencies. Did you fail to notice that he had already annex Austria and occupied Czechoslovakia by that point?

3. Are you seriously blaming those who came to defend a country being attacked for causing WWII? GERMANY declared war, GERMANY fired the first shot. GERMANY is to blame, not Britain.

1) Poland was invaded after several episodes of border skirmishes and reports of persecution of ethnic Germans in Poland. Hitler complained of 'intolerable provocations' to Churchill. Ofcourse the narrative the allies have written since call all of this fake and state there were no killings of Germans by Poles. A lot of smoke and mirrors now, 'false flags', Germans dressed as Poles dressed as Germans, etc. But the murder of ethnic Germans within Poland is a provocation and I believe there is good historical evidence that suggests that occurred. In the book "Hitler", the Nazi terms to Poland, pre-invasion, were characterized as "a proposal of extreme moderation. It was in fact an offer that no Allied statesman could have rejected in good faith". How do you reconcile Poland acting in bad faith? Finding reports of the butchering of ethnic Germans at the hands of a Poland clearly acting in bad faith, refusing overtures of an allience, I just don't view that as unreasonable.

2) Agreed. Britain had no means to support Poland. Poland was used.

3) Of course the characteristics of the nation you are risking world war for should matter. I've already discussed Austria and CZ in this thread. Germans reclaiming Germans was done without firing a shot. If Germans were given the same self determination allowance everybody else was at Versaille they would not have to be reclaimed to begin with.

4) You are looking at this like its a childs movie - "Somebody should defend Poland from the Bully! Who is noble enough?". That is not a representation of the dynamics present at this time. Im kinda done with this conversation, I don't think you have explored the gray areas of this conflict. The Polish War Guarantee cannot be viewed as a success. It cannot be viewed as sound diplomacy.

1. Which has zero sources outside of German state propaganda.

2. Czechoslovakia wasnt german, they were czech and slovak. Yes, there were germans living in the Sudetenland but that area had never been part of anything called "Germany".

1. Well we know there was a massacre of German civilians in Bromberg two days after the invasion. But you are saying that it strains credulity to think anything like that could happen two days earlier? I would disagree. As a reader of a conspiracy forum, I wonder if a critical reading of this wikipedia page raises any eyebrows for you, or if you sense nothing dubious about the wording and phrasing throughout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident. It smells rotten to me. I just don't believe the Good vs Evil narrative, and 'unprovoked aggression toward brave little Poland' is at the foundation of it.

2. Disagree. Already wrote about CZ in length above.

1. Did you even read the first sentence of that article? "The Gleiwitz incident (German: Überfall auf den Sender Gleiwitz; Polish: Prowokacja gliwicka) was a covert Nazi German attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland), widely regarded as a deceitful false flag operation staged along with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe."

It clearly states that it was the germans who did it to themselves to spark a war.

And regarding Bromberg. Do you really find it surprising that there would be action taken against people belong to the nation that just invaded your country?

Alright. This conversation just showed its colors. I'm on a conspiracy message board. I think the mainstream history of WWII is untruthful and product of conspiracy to accomplish certain commercial and governmental pursuits by certain groups of people. My point about the Wikileaks article is that I assumed you were suspicious of conspiracies in the world around you, and have before 'Wikipediad' them, and are familiar with Wikipedias take on matters of conspiracy. We are not on the same page. This is emotional for you. Later dude.

This is exactly what I thought for a very long time. It turns out that I had just never been taught history as it actually happened. And that history has been very much suppressed for a reason.

In short: the invasion of Poland was due to the persecution of ethnic Germans in the Danzig Corridor. The Danzig Corridor was German territory full of German people, but was handed over to Poland through the unjust Treaty of Versailles. Jewish-Bolshevik terror gangs ethnically cleansed both Prussian Poland and German border towns as well. Look up "Bloody Sunday" for an example that miraculously hasn't been erased from the Orwellian history books.

I saw a video once that made a claim but I could never verify it outside the video. It sounded absurd!

It claimed that after Poland, Hitler offered a truce and even drew up a map of Poland that gave most of it back, annexing only parts that originally belongs to Germany.

Is this a verifiable fact?

It claimed that after Poland, Hitler offered a truce and even drew up a map of Poland that gave most of it back, annexing only parts that originally belongs to Germany.

I am not sure if this is true, but it wouldn't at all surprise me given that Hitler made numerous sensible proposals before the invasion; which include: demilitarization of the key port areas, public referendum, accepting Gdynia as a Polish port city on the Baltic Sea, 1 km wide rail & road passages to link Eastern Prussia to Germany, or to link Poland to the Baltic Sea.

After the 3 week German-Polish War ends in victory for the Germans, Hitler declared:

"I attempted to find a tolerable solution. I submitted this attempt to the Polish rulers. You know these proposals. They were more than moderate. I do not know what mental condition the Polish Government was in when it refused these proposals. As an answer, Poland gave the order for the first mobilization, and my request to the Polish Foreign Minister to visit me to discuss these questions was refused. Instead of going to Berlin, he went to London.”

Well apparently Poland thought England and Russia were going to back them up, so they got cocky.

They were assured that if Germany does anything it would be a border skirmish, easily contained. Not a full invasion.

Once the guns were firing, and no help arrived, they thought.. Oh fuck..

Well, Poland knew that England had their back for sure.

uJst three days before the actual outbreak of what was to become World War II, Britain agrees to come to the Poland's assistance in the event of a conflict with Germany. (Anglo Polish Military Alliance) This unnecessary deal emboldened the Polish and Jewish militias who want the West to wage war upon Germany. To force Hitler's hand, terrorists begin murdering German civilians in large numbers. A British ex-Pat named William Joyce described the events:

"On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred, besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of armed violence against German official persons and property. These incidents took place either on the border or inside German territory.

On the night of August 31, a band of Polish desperadoes actually occupied the German Broadcasting Station at Gleiwitz. Now it was clear that unless German troops marched at once, not a man, woman or child of German blood within the Polish territory could reasonably expect to avoid persecution and slaughter."

Kindof amazing. No one likes to think that Poland literally egged them on. Just crazy!

Benjamin H. Freedman 1961 speech...mind you this guy was born a jew and later converted

Some taboo history from 1878-2006(long)

Well..you know what they say....

"History is written by the victors".
- Winston Churchill -

It wouldn't be historically honest to say that Hitler "invaded" these neighboring countries. The Treaty of Versailles sliced off huge parts of Germany on all sides and gave them to its neighbors. People forget this, but Hitler was democratically elected, and he essentially ran on "Make Germany Great Again", and part of his platform was that he would bring back Germany's rightful borders This included bringing back all ethnic Germans and German speakers back into Germany, who had found the border crossing them, when the borders changed.

Most of the places that Hitler "invaded", like Austria and Czechoslovakia, were done with the consent of territory being absorbed. These were places that would rather live in Germany, than as a tiny border minority in another country, when they had grown up in Germany, but the border moved past them. As for Poland, which triggered the declaration of war by England and France against Germany, that was still a defensive action.

The Polish Communist government was purposefully trying to goad Hitler into action. They knew that he would not ignore violence against the ethnic Germans just past the border, in Poland. They started terrorizing the Germans in Poland, and Hitler spent months trying to negotiate. But the Poles were intransigent and confident, knowing that they were backed by England, France, and the USSR. These traitorous Polish Communists betrayed Poland, and the ethnic Poles, by using their country as bait between superpowers for another group's interest.

So Hitler went in, saved the ethnic Germans, and redrew the border again to include all classical German territory. Was this worth England and France and the USA fighting World War 2 over? You be the judge.

I would also recommend this book, https://www.amazon.com/Britain-Initiated-both-World-Wars/dp/1530993180, called "How Britain Initiated Both World Wars", by Nick Kollerstrom. Very enlightening.

As a Pole I feel very strange about all of this. In the whole Holohoax battle I find myself sitting in between, in the no man's land. I mean over the two decades after communism fell, our gov aimed to educate kids and teens about the WWII as best and as close to truth as possible. Today every Pole knows that the Red Army & NKWD exterminated almost all of our officers and elites (inteligentsia) in Katyn and other places in Russia. We know so many Poles died in German death camps alongside some (?) jews, our schools often took us to educational trips to those camps, to Auschwitz for example. This is knowledge served officially in school books. Approved by highest college historians, gov officials and WWII veterans, people who fought in the AK and various uprisings, even the Warsaw one, which was a total bloodshed.

And some of the holocaust deniers are trying to tell me that I've been lied to? By all of those old people, those vets? That there were NO camps (yet I saw them!), so no Poles died in them. How can this be? So were are those people now? Their remains and so on. It's easy to say something is a lie, but then you should feel somewhat responsible to answer the big question that you leave behind, to fill that empty hole in history.

And now we also have Jews trying to blame Poles for the holocaust, and establish this as common knowledge. World is fucking crazy man.

Agree with you, u/cannedbrains. My family were Polish and were displaced because of WWII. I grew up listening to the accounts of my grandparents and their friends attest to the fact this atrocity happened, and not just for Jews, but Catholics, homosexuals, all manner of Slavic people, gypsies and political prisoners, sadly many of whom have now died. One of which was separated from his family and forced onto those trains. I believe them not only because I knew them from birth and I trusted them anyway, but because they had no reason to lie. No one forced them to say these things to serve some political agenda, what they witnessed is the truth.

What I don't believe is conspiracy loving arse contrarians on the internet trying to look as though they're far more intelligent than the rest of us because they can see through some imaginary lie.

The Holocaust wasn't just about gassing people, it refers to the systematic murder of Jews by any method by the Nazi's before and during the war, so any 'math' you attempt to do to evidence to yourselves that they couldn't kill that many people in the camps is invalid. They starved ghettos full of people and shot hundreds of thousands across Europe. The reason the number keeps going up is because more accounts or bodies come to light.

I'm usually down for most conspiracies, but this one is beyond ridiculous, and what's worse its dangerous: desensitising people from this makes it all too easy to miss the signs of it happening again.

One final thing, its funny that 50 years ago no one would have mentioned this as a conspiracy, but now that the generation that witnessed it have mostly died its being queried.

I actually have relatives that were in the camps themselves (Slavs, as I am from a small Slavic country in Europe myself).

I don't see how this is the biggest redpill ever (not believing the holocaust). Even if you talk about slave camps (as the poster two messages above you mentioned) where Jews were led to, as opposed to being gassed, that is still an atrocious predicament for any people.

I do definitely think that the current Zionists leadership, especially the leadership of Israel, is using the horrible things that happened to the Jews as a reason for their own horrible warmongering policies, basically using the suffering of the Jews as a pity card to do whatever they want in the Middle East - however that doesn't mean that the Nazis didn't systematically exterminate and lock up the Jewish folk, as well as others. As a Slav mysely I can tell you that my ancestors were not spared.

Polish here. Had grandparents involved in the underground army. They too had many stories of what happened that fit what textbooks say. It's odd seeing this subreddit so easily be convinced parts aren't real

i agree. i have absolutely nothing to gain from the saying the Holocaust was real and neither did my grandfather, he was a Russian Jew and lost his mother, father and sister during WW2. this is confusing to me.

They blamed Poles for the holocaust? I've never heard that before.

yea nobody blamed the Poles for the Holocaust. There was a faaairly large amount of Poles that were victims in the holocaust.

It's only antisemites who blame anyone but Hitler for the holocaust, which is odd considering the number of other races that were included in the genocide. The troubling nonsense spouted in this thread is a big part of why it can be illegal in some places to say that the holocaust never happened. I can see that law being introduced to stop crazies like the posters in this thread out of their mind on "red pills". More like PCP or something.

No one is saying that there were no camps, or that no Poles died in camps. Our claim is that the camps were forced slave labor internment camps, where "undesirables" were brought and used for the war effort. Whereas official history says that these camps were not used for labor, but that they were industrial genocide camps, and that people were brought in on train and gassed with 15 minutes of arrival.

Also, it's worth noting that the camps you've seen have been rebuilt and recreated from the ground up. To this day they cannot find the original structures of "gas chambers" at Treblinka, for example, nor can they find mass graves. They have recreated mock ups of what they believe was there, though.

Slavs were not considered undesirables.

Everything else is exactly what I've come to the conclusion of too.

It really is the final boss of conspiracy, the ultimate redpill.

I've read testimonies of history teachers these days, who say it's hard to teach the official programs as defined by the ministry of education. Because all kids nowadays have watched the kind of videos you linked to above, and they tend to believe what they have seen on the Internet. And they won't fail to ask questions or tell the teachers they have read it's a hoax, something like that.

makes me wonder how much longer they can keep milking that cow.

TIL: My grandfather put on an Oscar-worthy performance.

He never really spoke of his "alleged" experience as a Survivor to me, or even to my mom. In his seventies, he reluctantly agreed to an interview with the foundation raising funds for the Holocaust Museum in DC (Jews needing money. Go figure.).

He really had his "story" down, and his "acting" was incredible. All those dramatic pauses and nervous laughter. For someone assigned with promoting a hoax, he was surprisingly hesitant to provide the gory details. Almost as if, even after all those years, somethings were still too horrific to discuss. But it's all a hoax, right?

He eventually provided some details involving stealing potatoes to stay alive, moving dead bodies, and finding others who had committed suicide. As he told it, "big, strong guys" that he was certain would out live him, but just couldn't take it anymore. Pretty weird, considering all the amenities offered, huh?

As impressive as his acting was, my grandmother deserves even more respect. She NEVER spoke a word of what "allegedly" happened to her. Maybe some stories from the ghettos, prior to transfer to the "alleged deaths camp," but beyond that, I never heard it mentioned in her presence. I always figured she experienced unimaginable horrors at Auschwitz, but this "red pill" let's me know she was just really committed to the bit.

But what about my great grandparents? Some real characters. Especially, my grandmother's father. You see, she was only half Jewish, and could have probably found a way out of this altogether. Instead, she chose to stick with her Jewish father. How did he repay her? He was last seen entering Auschwitz. He disappeared altogether! What a rascal, right? My grandfather's father also managed that same disappearing act. A pretty tough "red pill" swallow. Anyway, let's get back to these fun conspiracies!

Nobody said people weren't interned or that people died. Him needing to steal potatoes probably had more to do with the destruction of German infrastructure and supply lines than your Grandfather being intentionally starved. Because if that was the case there would've never been any survivors.

Hi hasbara how are you

I had to google that. Had no idea what it was, but I suppose that’s exactly what a propagandist would say.

Your commitment to insufferable sarcasm was... interesting. I never said these people weren't in camps. I said that they all died horribly and tragically. The conspiracy is that they weren't systematically gassed to death, but that they were slave laborers in wartime internment camps. Which your two grandparents prove, given that they were alive to have your parents. You don't randomly live through an extermination camp. The claim is that people were gassed within 15 minutes over of arrival.

Many "Holocaust survivors" spent months or even years in those camps. And they didn't get gassed.... why? They didn't get ovened or executed why? Have you ever stopped to think about the fact that it's a little weird, a little contradictory, that you have two grandparents that were both in a genocidal extermination camp, and somehow lived to look you in the eyes? They were slave laborers, and the those bigger, stronger men than your grandfather died tragically, it's awful. But remember, "they just couldn't take it anymore". They succumbed to the work, to the typhus, to starvation, who knows. But by your own description, they couldn't hold out any longer. That's very different than getting the industrial gas at a genocide factory.

You'd communicate a lot better with people, as a side note, if you tried to debate in good faith, rather than putting on an elaborate display of sarcasm.

I sincerely thank you for suffering through my sarcasm, and actually reading my post. I'm glad you are not denying my grandparents' suffering, but you will see in this very post that there are others that do.

Also, you admit that your grandfather "never really spoke of his experience", and that even while interviewed, "was surprisingly hesitant to provide the gory details". Then you say that your grandmother "NEVER spoke a word about what 'allegedly' happened to her", except stories about parts of the war that no one disputes. Not a very convincing personal anecdote, up against mountains of evidence that they were labor camps not genocide camps.

Dont forget the most famous camp, Auschwitz, was completely destroyed then rebuilt as it is seen today.

You know Russia was part of the war? How do they fit in? Why continue a British/French/American lie when they were enemies for 80 years afterwards? Not to mention that they liberated a lot of the camps, since they are in Poland or the East of Germany.

The Soviets and the Allies were complicit with each other, although they weren't technically part of the same financial bloc. But New York bankers, particularly Schiff, funded Trotsky and the Russian revolution. Patton wanted to continue East and destroy the Soviets after the war, but the Western powers had already struck a deal with them. They waited months before the final offensive, so that the Allies and the Soviets could meet in the middle of Berlin at the same time.

On why the Soviets would lie? They had a Blood feud with National Socialist Germany. The Soviets were Jewish controlled, and obviously the Nazis weren't so friendly to Jews. It was personal, between these two countries.

It's so outrageous how well this fits the definition of 'ridiculous juvenile conspiracy theory', but 99.9% of people would never ever think of it as such. Mind control becomes so visible and real once you've become aware of this one. It's scary.

They used photos of Eisenhower's death camps that were filled with Germans.

And the stories are mostly fake.

Watch- Adolf Hitler The Greatest Story Never Told. It's long but worth watching. The victors write the history books. Question EVERYTHING! Fake news and political agendas have always been a problem.

But how would they have fabricated all the photos

I've always thought photos of mass graves at the end of a "world war" would be exceedingly easy to come by.

first-hand accounts

Isn't this the easiest type of evidence to fabricate?

It's illegal to deny the Armenian genocide in France.

https://news.am/eng/news/434538.html

Rwanda has a law against Genocide Ideology. It's similar to the German law but more encompassing from what I understand.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9716142

The Mayan genocide is denied by the Guatemalan government. It's possible to murder 200,000 and since the winners write the history the government can deny it even occurred.

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Denial-from-the-Holocaust-to-the-Guatemalan-Genocide-20161011-0001.html

The Armenian genocide was done by Zionist Jews in collaboration with the ottoman Turks. Don’t be surprised if America can’t recognize it. America is run by Zionist Jews.

this

WTF? You guys are crazy. Israel is recognizing the Armenian genocide in 2018 anyways. US and Israel’s relations with Turkey made this recognition problematic.

The young turks had a ton of dönmeh in their ranks. Similar to the Bolsheviks. It's not made up out of thin air at all.

Please read Culture of Critique.

Understanding the Jewish role in America is an insane task, a task that can't be done even with an entire reddit thread. So start with Culture of Critique and keep an open mind.

WTF? You guys are crazy. Making shit up out of thin air.

posted to r/conspiracy

... Do... Do you know where you are?

Removed. Rule 10. Only warning.

Removed. Rule 10.

Good evening! Do you have anything to support your ostensibly insane bullshit claims? Also, when you say "done by" do you mean that one or more Jews can be loosely linked to the events, or that they directed the atrocity on a large scale?

Ottoman leadership was largely Jewish at the time. You are the one with the bullshit claims.

UIRL

Armenians being killed was not a government policy.

They were being exiled for some reason(probably because Russian were trying to arm them..), and during the exile, they were attacked by rebels and gangs out in the wild, in some cases, even guardians were killed. And acts of god like hunger, cold, etc.

Ask this to any credible historian and they will exactly state this. No need to "turkey genocided armenians whaaaa" all over again.

it's also apparently against the reddit content policy as well, see this thread in r/jews:

https://www.reddit.com/r/jews/comments/881ygh/why_are_you_people_lying_about_the_events_that/

shit makes me shiver, they didn't just ban him and remove the comments. the admins suspended him and then edited the fucking comments.

he didn't say anything that bad. anyone ever see anything else like that?

... after looking u/hutspuds up a bit on redditsearch, he was a bit of an asshole, but it really strikes me that that thread was his last major interaction. and his last comment was more holocaust denial, in r/NoStupidQuestions.

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"Fuck off. You’re clearly not Jewish and therefore do not belong here."

This kinda stuff is scary too.

How is that scary? He's clearly not Jewish in a Jewish space, not to mention the fact he's calling them all liars.

He wasn't entitled to some sort of debate.

If that's the case, maybe it should be a private community.

Or they could just ban unwelcome guests which wouldn't restrict new users the way making the sub private would.

True.

It's not a "Jewish space", it's a forum which Jewish ideology is discussed. This is the problem with having any debate about equality. Whoever feels disadvantaged will just say "You're not "insert race/sex/religion" so you aren't allowed to talk about our issues!" It's so counter-intuitive to the advancement of any cause to create an echo chamber where the only people who hear and discuss things with you are those without the power to make change.

They weren't having a debate though, dude was just being an asshole, assholes don't have to be accepted/tolerated.

That doesn't negate their point though, the people who decide where the line is drawn between "asshole" and "debate" are still the ones policing speech

Yes, same as we do when interacting with people at any time and place.

Or do you think "free speech" means that individuals and private entities don't get to choose what speech they hear?

You're not "insert race/sex/religion" so you aren't allowed to talk about our issues

You're not debating you're just being an asshole so you aren't allowed to talk about xyz

Both are policing speech. You can't build a stable society expecting everyone else to follow your own personal speech rules, only if the same rules apply to everybody.

Or to bring this full circle back to the topic of this post:

You're not "questioning the narrative" you're just being an anti-Semitic bigot. 3 of my grandmothers died in the Holocaust how dare you insult their memory

Why are you talking about building stable societies when it's just subforums moderating their subforum?

You didn't forget that part did you?

It's indicative of a larger societal trend (which is what GroverCleveland initially commented about)

Why are you such a fan of other people telling you what you can and can't say?

Because I'm not a child, if someone doesn't want to hear what I have to say, I move on.

Either my ideas are so stupid no one will bother listening or I'll eventually find people dumb enough to listen.

Yea, but you still have to be able to say it in the first place to gauge the reactions of others, right? The point is, being tolerant means being tolerant, even of dumb assholes who just want to stir pot. Dude can't hurt anyone that won't engage him, and learning to ignore needless drama is as much a part of being an adult as anything.

Agreed, and they did hear this dude out, didn't like what he was saying and he therefore got the boot.

Are you really implying r/jews is (or should be) some sort of sacred ground of free speech? It's a user made and moderated subreddit like almost every other one here. Just make your own and moderate it how you like.

Are you really implying r/jews is (or should be) some sort of sacred ground of free speech?

the whole world is a sacred ground of free speech. most people are just in denial.

I agree that old boy in r/jews was being an inflammatory asshole, but old agree Gr0v3r above you. Sure we all - or most of us at least - but we'll never get there because of this type of thing. Racism and exclusion are never really looked down upon as much when they come from a minority group. I mean, ask yourself, really, how would you feel about an organization called White Business Men of America? How about one called the Black Business Men of America? Your answer is obviously going to be your own, but I know if I heard the latter spoken on TV in the background, I'd probably go on typing. If I heard the first I'm going to look up, because I know shit's about to go down. But do I agree with the formation of either organization... Well, that's something I suppose I need to think further on; personal freedoms vs. social advancement, all that jazz.

Good post but it's all tangential(prob not the right word).

We're talking about a forum kicking an asshole from it's midst, not government or really anywhere in public or anything like that, literally just a forum for jews by jews to jew.

Is voat still around? That seems more like that dude's speed.

But the like the guy before me said, it's indicative of society at large. No one is saying the reddit overlords (idk what you call people who run them there websites, a'yup) don't have the right to do it, just that it's fucked up and provides yet another glimpse of how truly fucked and stuck in a tribe mindset the majority of people are.

Should dude have been banned, hell no. Was it against the rules, no, but it still shows you which way the people running the site are gonna lean when the wind blows heavy.

I almost always disagree with any kind of censorship. As far as Reddit goes - at some point, if you do not get rid of the assholes, all you are going to have is assholes left. All the decent people with quality posts would have left the sub.

he didn't say anything that bad. anyone ever see anything else like that?

I mean, he showed up, said "you people" and went into a massive gish gallop

and this doesn't violate reddit content policy.

User may have been banned for something else

sure. i'm still going to maintain that being the last act, as suspicious.

Sure, but I have seen worse. I assume something happened in PMs

that wouldn't warrant literally editing out all his comments ... he didn't say anything suspension worthy in the comments, so why literally edit his comments. not even remove, like edit. i don't get it.

in fact, i've never seen such behavior in the 8 years i've been on this site. all the other suspensions i've seen were just bans, no editing comments.

this is really suspicious. it looks like overkill from some outraged biased admin, or straight conspiracy. i'm not ok with either, they really damage in integrity of our knowledge systems, because know i think before i ask certain questions, which is the absolute opposite of what you want.

Yeah, the comments thing is a bit odd. I really wonder if he PMed someone some sort of threat and reddit didn't want a lawsuit?

I really wonder if he PMed someone some sort of threat and reddit didn't want a lawsuit?

i don't see how editing public comments over a private message is meaningful. one would edit public comments because of a statement he made publically

Could be an automod program when someone gets banned

this was admin intervention. not just a mod

How exactly do you know?

mods are not given the power the edit the comments of others. the most they can do is remove a post, which doesn't even delete from the internal database, it just hides it from public view, such had can it can always be unremoved.

only the admins can edit comments.

he didn’t say anything that bad

Yeah he only denied factual figures about the Holocaust and called the Jews liars for making said figures up.

how the fly fuck does the break reddit content policy?

Oh that’s different. It doesn’t violate Reddit policy so it should not be removed. The moderators of r/jews can just ban him or delete the post.

exactly. they didn't even remove his posts, they literally just had admins edit it for them. that sub r/jews is only like 400 people, give me a fucking break.

Really? I thought it was one of the big community subs. Even worse.

his last post was /r/NoStupidQuestions ... but they just deleted it. i doubt they were the ones getting the admit to pull all editing. r/jews was his last major conversation with anyone, only 2 negligible posts between him and getting banned, and r/jews didn't remove the posts, so i'm not sure what else i'm supposed to think.

Your first point is not entirely true, European Court of Human Rights' decision in Perincek vs. Switzerland states that you can not be convicted by denying it. Even if there is such a law in France, they can not enforce it due to the mentioned decision.

https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/ecthr-perincek-v-switzerland-no-2751008-2013/

In the US, congress blocked recognition of the Armenian genocide under pressure from Jewish groups. I cannot imagine what it is/was like for Armenians growing up here in the US, when noone knew about the horrific story of their people. I also was not taught in school that 20 million people were slaughtered in Russia prior to the world war, nor that the US was dropping bombs on Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war. History matters!

Right on!

Too many countries rely on the official narrative. Who benefits? It's not just Jews, but many, many others. Ask yourself, why are there Holocaust denial laws in Russia. Something, something... the atrocities of Communism and the USSR?

Or you know Jews control all those countries too.

Very likely given that the Bolshevism was a Jewish movement.

They lied about human soap They lied about human lampshades They lied about gas chambers They lied about 6 million They wont let anyone do forensic tests in any camps They lied about Dachau

Then they make it ILLEGAL TO QUESTION Makes you wonder what else they lied about

They lied about 6 million

Last I checked they wanted to raise the number to 10 million Jews, and therefore 15 million dead total from the concentration camps.

Convenient ... the numbers seem to rise any time it seems like people are getting bored of "never forgetting."

There’s a few videos talking about how the number 6 million was used since 1915 trying to victimize Jews since early 1900’s. Fucking disgusting. Even way before Adolf Hitler.

Check the date on this:

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/tfh/Image200.gif

After my extremely thorough search of his Wikipedia page, it appears Martin Glynn was a real person, he really was a Governor of NY, and he really did write an article by that title in 1919:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_H._Glynn#%22The_Crucifixion_of_Jews_Must_Stop!%22

No, the "6 million" that predated WW2 around the turn of the century was in reference to the number of Jews in Russia and Eastern Europe when they were persecuting them. It has nothing to do with "trying to victimize Jews."

https://youtu.be/OtAnuXl5VZY

Yes, thank you for showing what I was saying.

Who wants to "raise the number"? The number is estimated using historical records.

Its estimated inaccurately. Red Cross states the true number of estimated dead Jews during the holocaust is less than 300,000

The Red Cross never issued such a statistic, nor has it offered any estimate of the number of victims who perished in the camps. In its bulletin of February 1, 1978, the Red Cross declared that it had never compiled, much less published such statistics.

The 300,000 figure was actually taken from the Swiss paper, "Die Tat," in 1955. This estimate, however, was only a figure for the number of Germans who perished in the concentration camps. No mention of any Red Cross figures, however, was ever made by the paper.

Despite the obvious deception, Holocaust deniers, continue to peddle it, hoping that few people will actually check the sources.

This is the resource http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/06/red-cross-expose-judaic-holocaust-hoax/

The document does not list "the total death toll" in the concentration camps. What it shows is the number of surviving identifiable death records from each camp - that is, cases where the Nazis wrote down the full details of the death, including the name of the person killed, and preserved those records so they survived to be captured by the Allies after the war.

About 95% of the deaths in the camps were not recorded in such detail — or if they ever were, the Nazis destroyed those records before the war ended. When you're murdering a batch of 700 women and children at a time, are you really going to go among them first asking them their names and dates of birth, and carefully typing them out in a long, detailed report? Of course not. That would be inefficient and time-consuming; and it might remind you that your victims were actually human beings.

Also the document appears to be missing several camps including Sobibor.

plus the number is plucked straight out of old testament prophecy.

its obvious pro-jew propaganda that they use to appeal to pity for legislation BUT WAIT it was in an american textbook so its obviously true

Then they make it ILLEGAL TO QUESTION Makes you wonder what else they lied about

Not in America.

Like, I also didn't get how 11 million people could even logistically be exterminated like that, but someone broke the math down for me and it was like (evenly spread) only 30 people killed per camp from the start of the Holocaust to the end.

Not all the showers were gas chambers, some were really just showers.

How does one lie about human soap/lampshades and how does one prove they lied?

What does "they tortured a confessor" mean?

Why remove the smell from Zyklon B if not to use it on people who would be thrown into a panic from the smell?

I mean this is a conspiracy theory that I absolutely can't get behind, but as a rule I'm always open to hearing someone out.

I mean this is a conspiracy theory that I absolutely can't get behind, but as a rule I'm always open to hearing someone out.

Then you are not hearing them out.

Being open-minded doesn't mean you believe everything someone tells you, it means you're willing to take them seriously and listen to them, being open to the possibility that you're wrong.

I've never heard a hoax-acaust theory that couldn't reasonably be debunked.

Give me an argument or a theory that hasn't been reasonably been debunked and I'll take it seriously.

Stop being dramatic. What I meant:

"A theory I absolutely cant get behind" is antithetical to being open minded. How is this not obvious to anyone who thinks about it for one fucking second?

It's possible to entertain a thought without just accepting it as fact lmao

being open minded in this sub means agreeing with every easily debunked theory that gets vomited out here.

Except ... this one is not vomit

except.... most people vomiting it tend to just be paranoid joo haters and thinking about it for more than a few seconds should be enough to understand that it happened and people are capable of sick things. i dont see other dictators kill counts being watered down by neo nazis, just der fuhrers, who did nothing wrong but resisted the globalist bankers.... /s

Sure of course I know that to be true. Read my sibling reply to make more sense of my position. Thanks.

Not getting behind something is a colloquialism that means "support".

Like "Get behind your local sports team!"

I don't support or believe the idea that the Holocaust was a hoax.

OP stupidly posted that even with hard evidence, he could not get behind a supposed (conspiratorial) truth.

Im not saying anything about the Holocaust here yet sensitive pansies still come out to play. Suppose I believed all that was told about it. Then I learn new concrete informatiom that disproved some it. OP would still not be able to "get behind it" for god knows why. Truth seeks get behind the truth no matter the emotionally chargwd shit being flung their way, both internall and externally.

So because I'm op and can elaborate on the colloquialism that I used...

With the current conspiracy theories that I've heard, I don't believe the Holocaust was a hoax. These theories aren't exactly secret and I've heard a bunch and the bunch I've heard have perfectly reasonable explanations.

Elsewhere in the thread, I have asked respectful questions in good faith, and I've never asked for a source, I've never brushed off an assertion, and I'm earnestly interested in these theories (that I don't believe).

A question I've asked was about the human soap and the human lampshades. Do you have an answer for that? I recently read Slaughterhouse 5 and they mentioned candles made from humans.

Like, I understand how you can make soap from.humans and how it's... efficient to do that, but how do we know it never happened? Was there like artifact soap in some museum that someone tested and it was cow fat or whatever?

You obviously havnt done any research aside from swallowing the official story

It's that lazy insult that keeps most people from taking you seriously, and writing you off as a bigot.

If you care to answer any of my questions, I'm all ears.

Oy vey

I dunno. It kind of says a lot about the person and the idea when you tell them you're willing to hear them out, but they give you the old "Educate yourself, shitlord" line.

It’s no one’s job to spoon feed you. Educate yourself.

You forgot to add "shitlord".

"Justify my bigotry for me"

We’re not having a debate and im not the OP, and I know what I believe and why I believe the way I do. So fuck off Schlomo.

but someone broke the math down for me and it was like (evenly spread) only 30 people killed per camp from the start of the Holocaust to the end.

Recheck your sums bro because "witnesses" claimed 10,000 bodies burnt everyday at some camps.

The original estimate for those killed at Auschwitz was 4 million.

What witnesses? I've never heard that. Did they work there? We're they prisoners there?

You say original estimates. What was the official reason for changing them?

Auschwitz was 15.44 square miles, according to Google. If it was a perfect square, that's nearly 4 miles a side. It would take an average person two hours to walk from one end of the camp to the other.

It says that 1.3 million people were killed there over 6 years. That's just shy of 600 people a day. Is it unreasonable to think that a concentration camp a fourth the size of Manhattan with the purpose of exterminating people on an industrial scale could kill and dispose of 600 people a day? That's 25 people an hour.

Red Cross inspected it. You know when you burn thousands of cows you have to evacuate the villages for miles? Red Cross would've noticed if it were a deathcamp.

Actually, coincidentally, when I think about the logistics, I keep coming back to how efficient abattoirs are in slaughtering cows.

Red Cross is why they changed the estimates?

Actually, coincidentally, when I think about the logistics, I keep coming back to how efficient abattoirs are in slaughtering cows.

It's not killing people that is the challenge (although using lice pesticide is an impossible way to do it)

It's burning all the bodies.

Where did the fuel come from? Why didn't Red Cross notice the huge funeral pyres? Why didn't Allied reconnaissance planes photograph them?

Red Cross is why they changed the estimates?

No.

Why'd they change the estimates?

Also I thought humans were pretty flammable on their own.

Why'd they change the estimates?

I think that David Irving had a court case and he said that the crematorium didn't have the capacity to kill that many even if it were working 24/7. They revised it and said "oh but it was the russians that got it wrong"

Auschwitz was a work camp not a death camp.

I'd like to see this math. Either there are much more alleged death camps than I know of or Hitler ruled over germany for much longer than we thought.

There are 8 death camps and 11 million people. The math is quite simple if each camp kills 30 people per day we have a time of over 45800 days or over 125 years.

There is debate over when the Holocaust actually started but it was certainly not the moment Hitler took power and most certainly not over a century before that.

When I googled 'how many concentration camps were there's it gave me 980 concentration camps that operated between 1933 and 1945. Apparently there were 40,000 camps total, including slave camps and pow camps and the like.

Over the course of 13 years, ignoring leap days, 980 camps would have to kill x people per day in order to genocide 11 million people. Solve for x.

11,000,000/(13x365)= 2,318.2 people per day across 980 camps is 3 per day, more or less.

Unfortunately I don't remember where he got the ~75 camps number which would get us to 30 per day.

Now, 2,318 people per day works out to 289 people per death camp (where'd you land on 8?) which still isn't that hard to believe, if you are in the business of killing as many people as possible.

1933?

There was this whole time before the war broke out where Hitler invaded Poland and the rest of the world didn't do shit because they were still licking their wounds from WW1. The history books called it "Appeasement".

Hitler didn't invade Poland until 1939...and the rest of the world didnt do shit about it because they knew Germany got screwed by the Treaty of Versailles, which gave German land to Poland and other nations, and threw Poland under the bus while they counted their own plunder....

but since you brought up 1933...

Benjamin H. Freedman 1961 speech...mind you this guy was born a jew and later converted to Catholicism

Some taboo history from 1878-2006(long)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

Also, can we both agree that IF there was some kind of concerted effort to slander the Jews, inventing a boycott would be a good propaganda piece for "Look! Our shitty economy is the fault of the Jews!" wouldn't it?

Like in the age of CNN/Fox News lying all the time, we can agree to not take newspapers as gospel, right?

Pretty sure the Express was a London Paper

If you haven'y listened to the Freedman Speech I linked above, you should do so.

And I'm not sure what your link does to say Germany invaded Poland in 33...I mean, Hitler JUST got elected in January of 33, and still didnt have full control over the military.

I just don't get your math or time frame that makes you think the official Holo story is even remotely legit. Its like, " Sure, it could have happened if X, Y and Z happened" but X, Y and Z didnt happen sooo...

Anyways, watch the links i posted above. Might clear the fog a bit....

I did not start with an amount of year like you. 13 years is also wrong because there were not even one concentration camp in 1933, 1933 was the year Hitler took power. The earliest date we could arguably use is the Reichskristallnacht at the end of 1938, the latest is 1941 with the opening of Chelmno.

But as I said I did not start with a number of years but with a number of death camps or extermination camps. Those are eight camps are Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor, Majdanek, Maly Trostinets and Sajmiste. This are the camps with planned executions the other were concentration camps not extermination camps.

Now before I used your number of 11 million (6 million jews, 5 million non-jews) other sources state that out of the 6 million jews about 4 million died in extermination camps, 2 million in other ways like small shootings or starvation. Wikipedia states that only 3,115,000-3,215,000 (jews and non-jews) died in extermination camps. We have no exact number.

3,215,000 / (8*30*365) = 36,7 (years)

But all this math is quite unrelevant because the number of death in each camp and each day is different. The United State Holocaust Memorial Museum also states over 3 million death in extermination camps but is speaking about jew not jews and non-jews. It also states that that the hight (however long that was) they killed up to 6,000 jews each day in Auschwitz-Birkenau alone.

My whole point is that 30 people per camp per day is very low.

I think the misunderstanding is that you're going by "extermination camp" and I'm going by the broader "concentration camp".

Yes those are not the same.

Concentration camp were there to concentrate the prisoners for work and later transportation to the east. They weren't facilities for mass executions.

Can you explain me how they lied about gas chambers as we have absolut clear evidance from SS officers that confirm the massive use of gas chambers.

The SS officer was likely tortured.

So the SS are the real people who suffered, not the "undesirables?"

Out of all of the SS officers who signed confessions (in languages they couldn't read nor write) and testified at Nuremberg, not a single one of them had functioning testicles. They were tortured and their families were threatened.

Don't want your family to be threatened, don't start a World War. Building a Paris gun and firing long range rockets into dense populated civilian areas didn't help their case.

Okay; doesn't negate the fact that they were tortured, threatened, and forced to sign blatant lies. The war was extremely brutal both ways, especially what the Germans did to the Russians and what the Russians did back to the Germans.

None of this changes the fact that the Holocaust is a bunch of bologna.

I'll give the various videos in this thread a watch at home later.

Better be quick with it; they are being swept off of YouTube daily.

Lmao. You think the Germans started the World War. What a fucking goof.

Seeing as how they declared war on the Western Allies is impossible to deny, so yes, they started it.

Hitler requested peace for 6 years before the start of World War 2. While Britain bombed German cities, Hitler showed an amazing amount of restraint and continued to call for peace. The 'Western Allies' declared war on Germany. Germany never wanted to go to war with Britain.

You've been lied to.

The Martians in Mars Attacks said they came in peace too, lmao. Germany designed and built a massive weapons stockpile of the best modern weapons in the world, future weapons. Building long range rockets isn't a move that shows you want peace.

Oh my! They built weapons?!?!?! And strengthened themselves militarily?!?!?! Why could that be?!?!?!

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the Soviet scourge to the east that was threatening to overtake Europe... Hmm... No, definitely couldn't be. It was definitely just to take over the world. Hitler was a mad man after all that wanted to establish a worldwide Reich, right?

You are an absolute mental midget SovereignZuul. It's not even worth talking to you anymore because you're actually too normie brained to understand anything past a secondary level.

The 'Western Allies' declared war on Germany. Germany never wanted to go to war with Britain.

Right after Hitler invaded Poland. If Hitler didnt want to go to war with France and Brittain he shouldn't have invaded their ally. Simple as that.

Lol the insanity of the excess these people live in to dream up that Adolph Hitler wasn't a bad guy and it was the allies fault for WW2.

"Hitler didn't order the firing of ballistic missiles into the London population. London did it! London, why are you hitting yourself? Quit hitting yourself!"

Fucking lunatics on this sub, lmao.

Britain struck first, dumb shit. Are you seriously that dim? Listen to Hitler's October 6th, 1939 speech.

I'd say you are the lunatic for pushing lies for internet karma.

Have you done research into WHY Hitler invaded Poland? Do you know what Poland did to Germans? Maybe you should look it up. Hitler didn't invade Poland because he 'wanted to rule the world'. He did it to save Germans who were living there and being killed for being German.

Hitler didn't want war with the rest of Europe. Hitler made it clear in his speeches why he did what he did. You know absolutely nothing. Your opinion is of the most basic and mainstream. You don't even begin to see the logistics behind Germany's decisions because you're brainwashed to believe Germany = Satan incarnate. Honestly very sad.

They didn't start the war, England and France did.

England and France invaded Poland? Wow, so much history to rewrite, so little time.

Germany invaded the Danzig corridor in which ethnic Germans were being persecuted and massacred by Jewish-Bolshevik terror gangs. Even the Orwellian history books have to admit that "Bloody Sunday" in Bromberg actually happened.

Isn't it interesting that the Allies did nothing when Smigly of Poland invaded Lithuania and Czechoslovakia? And yet they only declared war on Germany after the Germans decided to put a stop to the persecution. Funny how that works, almost like they were looking for an excuse to declare war on Germany.

If you want more information regarding this suppressed aspect of history, feel free to ask. If you would rather remain in your bubble of ignorance, feel free to respond with a braindead snarky comment of some sort.

Germany invaded the Danzig corridor in which ethnic Germans were being persecuted and massacred by Jewish-Bolshevik terror gangs.

Way to parrot Goebel's propaganda.

Even the Orwellian history books have to admit that "Bloody Sunday" in Bromberg actually happened.

Except "Bloody Sunday" occurred after Germany invaded Poland so using that as a justification for the invasion is ridiculous. Source)

Isn't it interesting that the Allies did nothing when Smigly of Poland invaded Lithuania and Czechoslovakia? And yet they only declared war on Germany after the Germans decided to put a stop to the persecution. Funny how that works, almost like they were looking for an excuse to declare war on Germany.

More bullshit Nazi propaganda founded on your previous lie.

If you want more information regarding this suppressed aspect of history, feel free to ask. If you would rather remain in your bubble of ignorance, feel free to respond with a braindead snarky comment of some sort.

Well given the inaccuracy of your previous information, I don't think you are the best person to ask about historical facts.

If you would rather remain in your bubble of ignorance, feel free to respond with a braindead snarky comment of some sort.

That's what I though. Everything that goes against your narrative is just "Nazi propaganda." You have been successfully brainwashed, that's all there is to it.

Except ya know, the entirety of your previous argument was founded on a lie

Of course you would think that. Nope, there was absolutely no persecution of ethnic Germans in Poland before September of 1939! It was all just lies made up by the Germans.

And even assuming that they really were lying, despite all the evidence to the contrary, why didn't the Allies declare war on Poland instead for doing the same thing? And why didn't the Allies declare war on Russia for invading Poland from the east at the same time?

Face it, your version of the facts just don't add up.

You cited an event that occured after the German invasion to justify said invasion. Face it, you got caught lying and are now being called out for it.

And even assuming that they really were lying, despite all the evidence to the contrary, why didn't the Allies declare war on Poland instead for doing the same thing?

Please show me where Poland invaded Germany. I'll wait.

And why didn't the Allies declare war on Russia for invading Poland from the east at the same time?

This took all of five minutes to find. From the source:

"The reason why Britain didn’t declare war on the Soviet Union is an intriguing one. Unknown to the general public there was a ‘secret protocol’ to the 1939 Anglo-Polish treaty that specifically limited the British obligation to protect Poland to ‘aggression’ from Germany."

I guess this is a difficult concept for you, but the persecution and killings of ethnic Germans happened before and shortly after the invasion, and the invasion put a stop to it. Far more people were killed before the invasion than they were at Bromberg, shortly after the invasion.

Please show me where Poland invaded Germany. I'll wait.

In my previous comment I described how Poland invaded Lithuania and Czechoslovakia. I'm not surprised that you weren't aware of that, but I literally told you about it just above.

This took all of five minutes to find. From the source:

So the British only cared about protecting Poland from Germany, not from Russia. Almost like they only cared about fighting Germany, and not Russia! That literally confirms what I've been saying.

Winston Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

I guess this is a difficult concept for you, but the persecution and killings of ethnic Germans happened before and shortly after the invasion, and the invasion put a stop to it. Far more people were killed before the invasion than they were at Bromberg, shortly after the invasion.

Yet thats the citation you chose. It aint my fault if you cant keep chronolgies straight.

Please show me where Poland invaded Germany. I'll wait.

In my previous comment I described how Poland invaded Lithuania and Czechoslovakia. I'm not surprised that you weren't aware of that, but I literally told you about it just above.

Lithuania and Czechoslovakia are Germany now? Fascinating...

This took all of five minutes to find. From the source:

So the British only cared about protecting Poland from Germany, not from Russia. Almost like they only cared about fighting Germany, and not Russia! That literally confirms what I've been saying.

Well seeing as how it was Germany who invaded the territory that would become Poland in WW1 it makes sense they would be concerned about another German invasion.

Winston Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

Another lie? Why am I not surprised?

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Proof? Did you fondle their balls?

u/ChamuelSophia was wrong on both counts. They were thinking of the Dachau trials not the Nuremberg trials, and not every single witness had their balls smashed:

All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.

Here's a whole book about it if you're curious: http://www.fredautley.com/pdffiles/book01.pdf

Jesus goddamned FUCK. I don't even have testicles and that physically pained me to read.

Yeah it's definitely a painful truth but at the same time it's easy to forgive my countrymen for kicking a few Nazis in the balls. We've done plenty worse

I get where you're coming from; when you think of it in terms of our boys giving those evil Nazis a good kick in the balls, it sounds right as rain. But unfortunately (according to the article I linked in the edit to my first comment) it sounds more like they rounded up every German within even remote proximity to where an atrocity/massacre had occured. Then proceeded to torture the shit out of them, using any means necessary to extract a false confession, including literally crushing and permanently destroying their testicles... driving one 18 year old kid to commit suicide as he declared he could not force himself to tell their lies.

Just a little bit beyond a swift kick to the Nazi-nuts.. :/

The German people certainly suffered: burned alive at Dresden; raped to death by the Red army.

Clear evidence it is not. There are serious holes in it including the fact that the designated de little using chambers (that also used zyklon b). Have more residue than the supposed gas chambers.

Whilst not scientific I have stood over those gas chambers and even before I looked into the holocaust question something just didn’t feel right. Having been to a mass murder site you can feel the heavyness in the air. It just wasn’t there at austwitz. A sorrowful place without a doubt, a place of suffering, starvation is what I got mostly there.

There are just serious holes in it. For instance just take Ann frank an emaciated 14 year old with typhoid. Evacuated to Belsen Bergen rather than gassed, her family died of typhoid not gassed. The Schindler women who were at austwitz for months all released including old women and children (not like the film it wasn’t an immediate turnaround).

These are facts we have that are absolute. What we only have for gassing is some witnesses that say that’s what happened. No actual evidence believe it or not. And Germans were meticulous record keepers. Still no evidence what so ever in the records. And summon b was 90% accounted for in de lousing chambers according to the records. And why use zyklon b in the first place when the Germans had much better poisons.

What I find disturbing is that it takes away from the real suffering of millions and turns a lot of deaths into a political chess peice which is disturbing. The truth is the truth and people deserve to investigate the truth.

Having been to a mass murder site you can feel the heavyness in the air. It just wasn’t there at austwitz.

Ok I'm not getting into your other points but you can't honestly believe this is a legitimate argument right?

Not really no. But it set me off investigating it. And I didn’t find any evidence of mass gassing. Other than stories from people. And any investigation being actively blocked. Including any excavation of trablinka. The Nuremberg trials only giving over 17 minutes to the camps (in many days of trails).

There should be irrefutable evidence of mass gassing of millions of people. But there just isn’t.

So, you're saying you went to the camp and had a feeling about whether the holocaust happened. Then, when you looked into it, everything confirmed that feeling.

Ever heard of confirmation bias?

Ever heard of concrete evidence ? With 11 million gassed people you’d expect more than just peoples say so.

And yes it was because it didn’t make sense to me. Not just a feeling but the positions of the chambers. The absolute miles of factories that needed a huge workforce. The fact that Schindler women were not gassed. The fact that the Germans openly shot and hung dead bodies from tee wire yet felt the need to hide the gas chamber.

Why hide them ? It’s not as if the fellow inmates would g notice hundreds of people missing when they were gassed ? Why not document the gassing along with the shootings they were both just as illegal and henios.

You can carry on with your nonsenSe if you like but it just goes to show you are a shill and better versed in short uninformed comments that knowing anything about the subject you are trying to disrupt.

Removed. Rule 10. (Just the last sentence)

Hitler himself confessed to an organised extermination of the Jews in his last political testament.

See the 5th paragraph...

https://archive.org/stream/HitlerLastPoliticalTestament/Hitler-LastPoliticalTestament_djvu.txt

The people actually on the ground in 1945 - the Russians, the Brits, the Americans, the Polish, even the Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss (in his book) all said there were gas chambers. I'm not sure what more you people want.

https://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/History/Articles/RudolfHoess.html

Anyway, good to see you're being massively downvoted. At least there is still hope for humanity even in this dark Mandela Effected world we find ourselves.

Hope ? No there isn’t hope. When the suffering of people is used for political gain. It seems that questioning the gas chambers makes you a monster. It doesn’t. Using the deaths of millions for political gain is. Ignoring the suffering through starvation and illness for a more political death of the gas chambers is sickening. I can show you photo after photo after photo after photo of mounds and mass graves of emaciated dead bodies, starved and skeletal. These people died of starvation. A horrific way to go.

People said ? It needs more than people said to show that millions of people were gassed to death. There just would be so so much more evidence. There is not.

As for the downvotes. I couldn’t give a fuck. It’s a political forum.

And as for the mandela effected world ? The biggest cover up I’ve ever seen, you post there as well.

This is a discussion people should not be afraid to have. Yet it’s because of intimidation and bullying that people are. Why ? If there was such clear irrefutable proof it would be easy.

There’s proof of the einzatzgruppen throwing old people off cliffs. There’s proof they shot a lot of people. Yet there is no proof other than apparently someone said.

Did it happen ? Yes it wouldn’t surprise me that something like this may have been tried. Did 11 million died via the gas chambers ? No not a chance

Did 11 million died via the gas chambers ?

This is an attempt to obfuscate with spurious information. 6 million Jews were estimated to have died in the Holocaust in total. Not even the gas chambers. So, I don't know where you got 1 million from?

Rudolf Höss used his time in prison to write his memoirs. He felt he was treated so well be the Poles who captured him (despite how cruelly they Nazis treated the Poles) that he decided to come clean with his confession. He stated very clearly that they used gas chambers to gas people to death. In his own hands, he wrote this. And no, it wasn't a British or American conspiracy. He confessed this to the Polish.

Many years ago Oskar Groening a former guard at Auschwitz also confessed to being there "on the ramp" when people were being gassed to death. He repeated his confession again in court very recently. At 90+ years he was already an old man who had lived his life in full and had no reason to lie. He specifically said he decided to tell the truth when he saw that the younger generation was denying it happened, and he didn't want them to make the same mistakes they made.

https://www.politico.eu/article/auschwitz-guard-germany-holocaust-history-world-war/

If you really want to find evidence you will. But if you're already swayed by revisionist and Neo-Nazi theories then, of course, you'll look for what you can find to support that.

The reason why we some policing re what people say is that there is genuine evil in this world. Humans are not perfect. There are revisionists who want to rewrite history and erase wrongs done in the past for whatever political agendas. There are a lot of positives with the advent of the internet but one downside is that now that everyone can now air their views via social media we can see that there are a lot of crazy, unhinged, people in society who appear normal. The internet brings out the worst in people. They say things they would never ever say in real life in front of other people. So some policing is needed.

And there in lies the problem. 6 million Jews you don’t know where I got 11 million from ? What the fuck has Jews got to do with anything. They better than the other five million that are meant to have died ? They a superior race ? A more important death statistic.

It’s been hijacked by the Jews to make it an only Jew thing hence questioning the so called facts makes you anti semitic. It’s a human tragedy not just a Jewish one

As for six million or 11 million. I take it you are aware the numbers didn’t change after the soviets had to admit the four million they suggested died at austwitz were rounded down to 1.1 million. Those figures include people that died on the death march from Budapest.

And since the next supposedly biggest death camp was treblinka at 500k I still struggle to see where 11 million adds up to even with the inflated figures of a million killed by the einzatzgruppen

Believe what you want to believe. An epiphany I had after the ME is that life policies itself because humans cannot catch every evil that can destroy this reality if everyone does it. If policing this reality was down to humans alone, this world would be loooong gone. For example, most evil things happen in private and the perpetrators go to meticulous lengths to hide their crime, but they still eventually come unstuck. Life must balance itself to keep this reality going if not, humans would destroy it.

Anything that threatens the integrity of this reality eventually fails.

That’s why Hitler lost! His grand plan was to exterminate the entire Russian population so that Germans can have "Lebensraum". He was trying to play God and he lost. He was always gonna lose. The involvement of Britain in that war is the hand of God at play. And no, I'm not religious at all. I use God as a metaphor for Life.

I’m British. I live in London. Of course, Britain, USA and Russia won the war. Regarding our empire, I’m happy we’re no longer exploiting other people in faraway lands. We helped to civilise people, but our job was already done by the 1960s. Anything more was just exploitation that would have developed into an apartheid system like how South Africa became. That was the epitome of evil.

We gave others their independence just as we would have wanted if we were the ones being colonised. If you don't agree with this then your level of consciousness is very low. But that's OK because you’ll get nowhere with that and you'll eventually wake up after much suffering. Especially in this new reality where Karma is much faster. Whenever you go against life, ALL life, you pay the price one way or another. And in ways you may not even be aware of. Germany paid a huge price when they tried that nonsense. Their country was pretty much razed to the ground and till this day they can never raise an army again to do what they did in WWII. So, who really lost?

I also have seen the ME. And re your interpretation if god. Yes I have the same feeling. And I’m well aware of our empire my great grandfather designed the Calcutta sewage system. And my grandfather was a captain in the Indian army when they stormed monte casino.

And it’s only propaganda that suggests the British empire was evil. It wasn’t perfect but we did do some good as well including putting a stop to the warring maharajas in India.

We set out to liberate Poland from tyranny and occupation. How exactly was that achieved other than to allow another dictator to perpetrate atrocities in these countries ?

Don’t think I’m sticking up for hitler. Or denying that atrocities happened. What I believe is that people’s suffering is being used as propaganda even to this day, and the victims are not given the proper respect and dignity they deserve. Let’s not forget the atrocities committed by Uncle Stalin our Allie in defeating the Germans. Atrocities are fine when it suits us not fine when it serves a political purpose, so let’s all get off the morale high ground.

Maybe you should go read up on how Stalin died. He lay there for days with a stroke and was left to die alone. The inner circle probably secretly wanted him to die. He must have suffered greatly before he died. Maybe he was paying for the evil things he did?

However, Stalin played a very important role in saving the Russian population from a very powerful evil force. Russia absolutely needed someone like Stalin to match up to Hitler and the onslaught from the Nazis, so I believe his presence at that time in history was an act of divine intervention. 170 million people could have perished without the uncompromising hand of Stalin as Hitler advanced and made it very clear it was a war of annihilation. He wanted to erase the Russian people from that land. They had no choice but to defeat Hitler or else they were ALL doomed.

That just sounds like mental aerobics to justify the murder of millions of innocent people. He could have defeated the Germans and not murders lots of people. Surely we can agree on that ?

I agree that he was an evil man and didn't have to kill so many people for political reasons. He was already killing people before WWII. However, that does not negate the fact that someone like him was needed to defeat Hitler. The Russians with the little technology they had then needed a leader who could match Hitler at that same level of brutality. Sometimes we have paradoxes in life that we just have to accept.

Not looking to invade countries ? Finland and Poland were not invaded by Russia then ? The Russians murdered more poles than the Germans did and the invasion of Finland was a blatant land grab.

I said eradicate whole populations like Hitler set out to do. Remember the siege of Leningrad? Hitler's generals wanted to take the city but Hitler said no that they don't need the people in the city so they should seal it off let them all starve to death.

To know the difference between Stalin and Hitler look at what Stalin did with he defeated Hitler. After a long hard battle of untold atrocities by the Germans, he wasn't packing German women and children into barns and burning them alive (as the Germans did in Ukraine). He rebuilt Germany. He lifted the people back up again. Anyway, I've said I have to say about this.

Look I’m really not trying to have an argument or appear to stick up for the fact that one atrocity is more excusable than another. But this is the point. We are blinded by what we are told and what we have been fed in propaganda the truth is not easy to see. It’s not right to massacre millions of civilians. We can all agree on this. Be it Jews or peasants. But I can’t see that standing by Stalin whilst admonishing hitler is anything but blatant hypocrisy on the part of the allies, and failing to find a real reason to justify the blood shed, over hyped the holocaust.

today to question the holocaust must mean I’m some kind of swastika toting nazi ready to build fourth reich. That is propaganda. When we cannot question what we are told we are not free people with a free speech. So whilst I may not agree with you. I agree with your right to speak what ever opinions you please. And that is half the point.

We were talking about Hitler and the Holocaust. Throwing in Stalin was a strawman argument. Maybe you also want to throw in the Americans who systematically almost wiped out the Red Indians or the British who committed atrocities against the Boars in South Africa to defend Hitler's actions. Hitler was wrong. Life deemed him to be wrong and he lost. Get over it.

Strawman. ? How the fuck is it a strawman argument that we call an Allie someone who actually killed 16 million people. You’re a fucking idiot.

You're an illiterate loser with VERY LOW consciousness. But I already knew this from your first posts. Talking about how Britain "lost the war" because we lost our empire? lol! That is so stupid and immature. I guess if it were left to you, slavery would still exist because you're so caught up in FEAR. You really believe you need to exploit and harm others for your own survival. Well, that is not how God sees it and God will continue to punish you as long as you let FEAR guide your actions.

So keep complaining like a little bitch until you wake up. What happened to the legacy of your hero Adolf Hitler? God has reversed everything he did in Germany in trying to exterminate minorities. There are more Turks in Germany now than there were Jews. Everything Hitler did and (all the Germans he killed in the process) was all for nothing. At the end of the day, God runs the show And you can complain all you want like a little bitch. It will not change the nature of reality. You are the one that needs to wake up.

We may be from the same country but we're obviously not from the same world so you're blocked.

Motivated now by a desire to speak out against those who denied the sights he personally had witnessed, Groening wrote down his own personal history for his family and eventually agreed to be interviewed by the BBC. Now well into his 80s, Groening has one simple message for the Holocaust deniers: “I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematorium. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened, because I was there.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/auschwitz-guard-germany-holocaust-history-world-war/

You're talking about testimony from the Nuremberg Trial? That trial was an absolute farce and perversion of justice.

How so?

The Nuremberg Trials Were A “High-Grade Lynching Party” – Harlan Fiske Stone, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court

"The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence […]. The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof […]” (Articles 19 and 21 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal)."

Moreover, the victors’ justice violated the usages of normal justice in ignoring the separation of powers (some of those who took part in the drafting of the Charter went on to become judges and prosecutors), instituting collective responsibility (any member of a group declared “criminal” was automatically considered a criminal himself), implementing retroactivity of laws and denying those convicted any possibility of appeal. No representatives of the neutral nations were among the judges and prosecutors.

And of course, there is a great deal of evidence that the testimony was coerced through threats and torture. All in all, it was a total kangaroo court.

Not only the Nuremberg Trial. There were docents/hundrets of trials vs SS officer.

Just last year was one of the last. He admitted everything.

Zyklon B was used to delouse mattresses. It's a pesticide. The Germans were trying to keep Typhus outbreaks from becoming an epidemic. Lice is a vector. That anyone foisted this "six million people were gassed to death" upon the world is very brave, but they knew they had the means to do it.

Jup. Poor nazis. "Accidently" killed 6 million jews while fighting Typhus

Illegal? Looks to me like you're questioning it right now

Not everywhere (yet), fortunately. But in many European countries he could be thrown in jail for saying what he just did.

Wow nvm that is fucked

just one recent example

Based on what I read, they lied about Einstein. Most of Einstein's work was stolen from French mathematician and physicist Henri Poincaré.

Nothing is above questioning.

The Holocaust is in pretty much all of Europe. Researchers, authors, grandmas have all been imprisoned for it.

Correct. Once enough evidence has been given to prove something, like the Holocaust for example, it's pretty much a fact.

lol its bullshit though. You can literally get thrown in jail for speaking the truth.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against the existence of gravity though, just the colloquial definition of it

It's pretty easy to "PROVE" the holocaust when all contradicting information is censored and anybody who questions it is shut up and thrown behind bars.

When something is so true you go to jail for questioning it.

My grandpa is was a US Army Purpleheart and died fighring Nazis....I didn't live to hear this.

Nor did your grandpa..

Sorry to bust your balls, but your grandpa was a pawn in a war run by Zionists. You lived to finally see the truth he couldn’t so open your eyes.

It was disheartening researching and finding out most of the wars if not all were because of Zionist. We really do live in the Matrix, almost everything we've been taught are lies. Our soldiers were brave to enlist, fight and die for what they thought was right.

He fought and died so the EU could eventually form, flood the entire continent with tens of millions of Africans and Middle Easterners, and push the Goyim out of their native homelands.

Coudenhove Kalergi Plan

Big eye-opener for me was Joseph Goebbel's diaries. Was he living on a different planet- he had no clue about the Hungarian Jews. According to the official narrative the deportation of the Hungarian Jews began on April 29, 1944 when a train load of Jews were sent to Birkenau. In ten short weeks 400,000 were alleged gassed there.

Apr 18, 1944 (II.12.44) The Führer then explained to the Gauleiters the background of his campaign in Hungary, and how it was designed. He gave an amusing description of his talk with Horthy. He had to use strong-arm tactics because the old man was not comfortable with the necessary measures. The Führer left him in no doubt, that either it would be a fight to the death or that he had to submit. The Führer had so many forces to apply to this campaign that Horthy offered no serious resistance. In particular, the Führer expected contributions from Hungary of food, oil, manganese, and people. In particular, he wants the 700,000 Jews in Hungary involved in beneficial activities for our war effort.

Apr 27, 1944 (II.12.199) 300,000 Hungarian Jews have been detained and imprisoned in the concentration camps. They should come, in large part, to Germany as a workforce. Himmler will take care of this; above all, they are to be used for our difficult war production programs.

May 4, 1944 (II.12.232) Our plenipotentiary in Hungary, Veesenmayer, gives an excellent speech on the decisive Hungarian factors. …In particular, it’s to his credit that the Hungarian potential is now in large part requisitioned for our war efforts. Also, the Jewish Question is now being handled more energetically. I insist that the measures taken against the Jews in Hungary have a factual basis. It’s not enough that one only announces in the press what happens, but one must also explain it. In Budapest the Jews are starting to be gathered into ghettos. The ghettos are built in the vicinity of the armament factories, because air attacks are likely there. It is hoped thereby to avoid British-American attacks on Budapest, if at all possible.

This one really just blew my mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRwIQpVrvpQ

Because Jews are behind most of the other genocides and they’ve bought the politicians.

"This just in, the Jews killed the Armenians, the Tutsis, the Mayans, 3/4 of the NA native population, the Balkans, and all of imperialist china during the Mao regime, it was all the Jews."

That's unironically what these people believe though.

He just PM'd me asking for my sources as to the Jewish involvement of Rwanda, Mayans, and the Balkans... He may just have autism...

not sure what you replied to or if it was sarcasm but if it was a serious claim then i too need sources

"Jews are responsible for every genocide and they control the governments"

I mean, this IS a conspiracy theory forum

nothing is off limits

Fair.

follow the money, honey ;)

a former Israeli foreign minister, Abba Eban, first quipped that:

There is no business like the show shoah business

Germany has payed around 100 billion dollars in compensation. They are not letting the holocaust memory dissapear.

The Holocaust™ isn't a genocide, it's the Holocaust™.

Which is interesting as in Hebrew old texts that means Sacrifice I was told.

That doesn't surprize me, some of the old timer Zionists said as much... the holocaust was worth it and they'd let it happen again.

Burnt offering to be precise.

While we're at it, what's with the absence of the Native American genocide from discussions on the topic? Our government literally subsidized the genocide of these people.

Does anyone deny that? Is it illegal to assert or deny?

no need to make it illegal, what are the few natives gonna do? protest?

Trick questions.

Watch Adolf Hitler- The greatest story never told. It discusses the holocaust and "6 million" and loads more. Very interesting documentary

Because a good deal of it is a self-serving lie that was originally made to protect the Soviets.

Ever wonder why only the Soviet “liberated” camps were “death camps”? Because the Soviets did not come upon all the dirty, starving prisoners and try to help them like the US and European Allies did... no, the Soviets themselves were starving and undersupplied and life was very cheap in Soviet Russia (for a visceral example, watch “Enemy at the Gates”). When the Soviet advance came across all the poor wretches needing food and medical care thy they couldn’t even provide to their own soldiers, they did the “convenient” thing: they killed all the prisoners in the camps, piled up the bodies, and burned them so they could continue to press into Germany. They took some pictures and to avoid their own blame, they created the idea of “death camps” and blamed their own atrocities on the Nazis.

Hell, it was an easy enough scapegoat.

This isn’t to say the Nazis were not evil, they had their own plans for the Jews but it wasn’t to waste resources exterminating them!

Ever wonder why Hitler talked of expelling the Jews and how he (correctly) called Soviet Bolshevism a Jewish controlled system? Ever wonder why he kept moving the camps further East?

Because, if the Nazis has successfully taken Stalingrad (they never meant to actually hold it, just sack it and end the Soviet offensive), Hitler was going to dump all of the Jews right into Stalingrad as a form of weapon. When the Soviets returned to try to rebuild, they would have been swamped with millions of starving and dead or dying souls filling the remains of the city with disease and rot and preventing *any quick attempt to rebuild or resume an attack!

Imagine what 6 million starving refugees would do to any attempt to rebuild a burned out, sacked city when your nation is already terribly undersupplied!

That was the reason.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You should come visit the death camps if you don’t believe in them. Seriously if you believe nobody died or was forced to die in there then there is something wrong with you

They were work camps in a war torn and undersuppied nation. Of course people died there. Death camps? No.

They admit the gas chambers are a hoax (ie. they are bomb shelters the allies converted to gas chambers).

Would love to get a source on this.

same

David Cole's Auschwitz documentary. Enjoy.

Thank you. A little new on this conspiracy.

Auschwitz Museum Official Admits ‘Gas Chamber’ is Postwar Reconstruction

http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/13/2/Raven8.html

This video is on youtube as well.

My whole point was about who killed them I never said anything about them not dying.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/topmindsofreddit] Top Mind fabricates argument in order to discuss Holocaust denial

 ^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

Because the Jewish genocide is the only fake one?

November 2, 1917 is a day......I can no longer grasp.

Because jews run the world and they want to make sure they always have that sympathy factor in the bag for when people start calling them out... im not anti-Semitic, just anti-zionist asf

Because jews run the world

im not anti-Semitic

Way to contradict yourself

What, they do

This is news to me. I'm Jewish yet no one has given me any of this supposed world controling power. What gives?

I'm talking about the nation of Israel, not the Jewish race in general. Guess that's my fault for the poor wording. My bad dude

Well I appreciate the acknowledgement of poor wording, but the substitute is not a whole lot better.

only genocide where laws are in place to make it illegal to dissent?

People in the comments section are really getting sidetracked by details. Nobody has stopped and thought about the answer to the question posed by the headline.

OP is not even asking what the details were or if history has been revised. He's asking "why is there a need for laws to protect the established version of history?"

Imo there are two possibilities.

• If a bunch of people tear the Holocaust narrative apart and say that it's fake... you pave the way towards a repeat occurrence. I'm not sure if this is a valid reason for censorship because it assumes that such censorship has a protective value and that it will be effective in it's purpose. There's also the question of whether or not "acceptable" censorship sets a harmful precedent.

• The second possibility is that the Holocaust narrative is hugely beneficial to some people. The idea being that keeping the narrative as it is helps to ensure some kind of long term sympathy for the victims... and by extension, anyone from the same ethnic/religious group.

It's been almost 75 years since the end of WWII. So, to me, it seems like the second explanation is the more likely one. You've got a group of people who weren't even born when the Holocaust happened. But nobody is allowed to criticize them or call them out when they do something bad because (no questions allowed!!!) there still the victims and if we don't give them whatever they want, it could lead to another Holocaust.

So I'm not calling history into question. But I am going to question why a certain part of history keeps coming up and be used for purely political effect. I question why anyone who points this out gets unfairly labelled.

It makes no sense. Honestly why ban one and not all?

It totally makes sense. Someone likes the official narrative and they intend to keep milking it for all it's worth for as long as they can.

There are no laws saying "give Jews whatever they want because of the holocaust." Given it's been 75 years, "because the holocaust" is not a very effective rhetorical strategy for anything. The laws in certain Western nations against denying the holocaust are there because fascist and anti-Semitic movements in those countries, which at one point were the perpetrators of the holocaust, could be expected to deny its reality. This becomes even more insidious now that there are few living witnesses to the thing. Even at the time the Generals of the Allied powers made an attempt to thoroughly document everything because they knew people would come to doubt the reality of what had happened -- in part because the scope was so unimaginably huge and cruel.

Western nations have their own self interested reasons for supporting Israel. There's plenty of room for conspiracy there without denying the reality of the holocaust.

You must not have read what I wrote very carefully. There's not one single word where I tried to do this.

There's plenty of room for conspiracy there without denying the reality of the holocaust.

I said they're milking it for sympathy and for political effect. That's completely different than saying it didn't happen. But don't worry. In a few more years I probably won't be allowed to say this either.

Wasn't necessarily an indictment of you or your comment. People up and down this thread are denying that the holocaust happened, that there were death camps, that the SS were executing thousands of Jews and other undesirables by machine gun or mobile gas vans.

Saying Israel exploits the holocaust for sympathy is one thing, and perfectly fine. Denying that it happened at all, as goes on frequently on this subreddit, is pretty abhorrent in my view.

I'm an American and think it should be legal to question anything you want, though I understand why some Western European nations have decided otherwise. It is admittedly frustrating to have the conversation over and over with people who deny mountains of evidence (the photos and documents are all faked, the confessions were got under torture, etc.). To them I'd ask where all the people who disappeared went? The numbers we've arrived at aren't arbitrary -- they are connected to names, birth records, etc.

It brings up a good question though -- how do you prove beyond a doubt something that happened 75 years ago? No amount of evidence seems to be effective.

Because they fabricated the numbers to give themselves more dominance. No Jew in the top of the chain is harmed at all.

By the way you soon won't be able to talk against the upcoming genocide of america when the new revolutionary communist government hits here.

Wake up! It's Boris Badenov. (He yells out his window and collapses in disgust and frustration

Because it didn't happen. At the least, not exactly as it was written. A lot of people think Hitler died in his bunker too. Doesn't make it true.

And why is the holocaust always referring to Jews, and not the other many millions that were killed?

A lot more disabled, retarded, unwanted, homeless, gypsies, political opponents, Slavs etc were killed than Jews - yet they are all we hear about.

because none of those points are useful to the Zionist agenda.

Maybe because the Nazis had that whole Solution thing that was specifically aimed at Jews? They killed a lot of other minorities on the way but, I mean, they also killed a heckin' lot of Jews.

Frankly there shouldnt be laws limiting the free speech (unless there a threads, etc). For me the problem is that the legislators can ban certain topics out of the public discussion: now is the genocide but once you open the door to ban free speech they just need to find a good excuse to limit the free speech elsewhere. Living in Europe half of you can say is potentially illegal and now with the anti Fake News law they will limit also what we can read/watch. You are lucky living in USA, dont take the european way.

A place would make it a law if the natural tendency of people is to reject it because they hate the people killed in the genocide. It would be easier to just ignore the evil done.

• Because Zionists/International financiers hold so much sway in the government and media in European countries.
• They are also trying to divert attention from their own atrocities vs Palestinians and from what Zionists did to Germany before WWII and from what Allies did to Germany during and after WWII.
• They're trying to conceal the weakness of the gas-chamber arguments because that's what makes the killing of Jews different from tens of millions of others killed in WWII and hence what makes reparations justifiable -- though paid to a country (Israel) that didn't exist at the time.
• Holocaust has become an extraordinarily lucrative racket -- especially for Israel. They don't want the genie let out of the bottle so people know it's not what they were taught.
• You could say it's just plain chutzpah, to surround people with constant reminders of the holocaust while diverting attention from information that gives it a real-world context.

Israeli Minister admitting they use the holocaust and anti-semitism as "tricks" to deflect criticism.

TL;DR: jews are snakes.

Funny how the people who deny the holocaust happened are also the ones who love the idea of killing all the Jews.

If it needs laws and jails to "protect" it, it must be questioned.

Some key reasons these laws are in place, in my opinion: Israel has atomic bombs. The United States has its back. Both have lots of money and political power.

People always want to mess with the Jewish people. That's not going to happen on their watch. This extends to their history.

Also: Genocide is frightfully common. People always lie about it after it happens. It's baked into our human nature. These sort of laws - I suspect - are there to mitigate the chances of genocides repeating.

They exist because a lot of stupid assholes think the Holocaust didn't happen. It did. Those laws are there to make sure that racist morons can't revise history.

Because revising history creates problems. And fucking assholes with ties to people that committed atrocities in the past ALWAYS want to revise history. Poland, France and some other countries in Europe have legal systems in place that enable them to ban fucktwads from lying about the awful shit their grandparents and great grandparents did. Good for them. Revising the past makes it easier for twisted shithards to do bad stuff in the present.

America does not have a legal system that enables it to put a legal muzzle on our inbred haters. Our backwards hicks have a God given right to lie about the hateful shit their pappies did way back when. The only thing stopping them from doing this is our media. This pisses them off to no end but it works, for the most part.

That said, nyway: if America politicians had the legal wherewithal to nip the lost cause myth in the bud in the late 1800s it mighta saved us a lot of headaches later on. That shit is still fucking with us.

And fucking assholes with ties to people that committed atrocities in the past ALWAYS want to revise history.

What you are missing is the assholes that revise history the most are governments.

In other words it should be perfectly acceptable to question any history as potentially revised history given how common historical revision is.

stupid assholes

racist morons

fucking assholes

fucktwads

twisted shittards

inbred haters.

backwards hicks

Thank you for putting on a clinic about how not to make a compelling argument.

You couldn't refute a single point he made and yet both you and I understand exactly what he was saying.

What was there to refute? Talking about "fucktwads" and "awful shit" is just blowing smoke

Removed. Rule 10. Your agenda is a bit too obvious buddy.

The reason is American foreign policy and foundation myth is dependent on the Holocaust myth and "defending" Israel.

So OP, where will all of this Holocaust Truth lead us? There's been a dramatic shift in consciousness over the last generation and who knows where we are headed?

ok ... make america illegal than

Sweet fuck this thread is depressing, lets ignore history with countless first hands accounts from every side of the Holocaust i addition to meticulous records kept by the Germans and Nazi's admitting to how it was done and capable of killing that many people.

Countless first hand accounts?

Like Herman Rosenblat, who lied about being in the camps?

"It was true in my mind"

Or Anne Frank who alledgedly died in the camps, and there was a book about her, but yet her father is the one who wrote the Anne Frank diary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCLOqTDFGUI

Or Joseph Hirt who admitted having fabricated story of being sent to camp and meeting Nazi doctor Josef Mengele to ‘keep memories alive’ about history of the Holocaust.

Your posting news stories, there will always be liars, crooks and manipulators in every area, this does not prove or even come close to proving that the deaths, the amount and the way these people were killed by the Nazis was fabricated or wildly exaggerated.

If you really are convinced, atleast be convinced by reading books and going over historical records and accounts. Too many people are duped by horrible youtube videos and leaps of logic if this is wrong then it all must be wrong.

Dozens of fakes? How does that compare to the hundreds, even thousands of others who've testified about their experiences? Or the testimony of camp guards -- dating back to the Nuremberg trials up to today? Or the millions of people that just went missing (with no explanation, if you don't believe in the reality of the holocaust)?

meticulous records kept by the Germans and Nazi's

Yes, the Germans kept meticulous records. Millions of documents were collated and archived by the Allies after the war, and they still exist in various archives.

admitting to how it was done

Absolutely false. There is no known contemporaneous Nazi document (ie letter, note, order, invoice, map, diagram etc) attesting to the existence of "death camps", or a "final solution" involving human gas chambers, or the mass incineration of bodies that constitute the "holocaust".

Bearing in mind the fact that the Germans did (as you say) keep meticulous records, this does not support the holocaust narrative at all - quite the opposite. The holocaust narrative is based entirely on "survivor testimony" and forced confessions from captured Nazi officers.

Yes. This is the real red pill. Not a single piece of evidence that the labor camps were death camps or that there was an intentional mass genocide via gas chamber

I tend to believe the red cross report is the most accurate account of what really happened.

fun fact: The Armenian genocide is denied by Israel

israel likes to keep its political options available. theyll do anything to work an angle

Not that I think it will change your preconceived notions about the reality of the holocaust, but Israel just moved to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

And of course it's the influence of Turkey which has prevented most nations from acknowledging the genocide. You'll find people in this thread tho that deny the reality of that one too.

Lets just say they have a better PR agency than the other genocides

Lets just say they rule the entire planet and world war 2 was the coup that put them in power.

No holocaust no reparations. Lower the count of victims lowers the damages awarded.

No Holocaust = No Israel = no 9/11

Connect the dots.

One thing is a large part of israel's geopolitical influence strategy lies in disseminating propaganda, and they vigorously attack any connficting points of view. Extending to legislative capture if and when possible. Boy do they ever. Waiting to be decried as a terrorist. I am not stating any opinion about any specific point, not denying the holocaust or anything, just saying they work fucking hard to keep the message out there and obliterate any dissenting information.

You know why.

cool it with the anti-Semitism here fellas. Who are you guys shilling for?

Removed. Rule 10.

Nazi ass mods. no wonder you hate Jews......

The Romas (gypsies) by some accounts suffered even more under the Nazis. But no one really cares about them, so you rarely will hear about it.

Because Holocaust did not happen.

'Holocaust' literally means "Burning Sacrifice", while the "sacrifice" is debatable, the "burning" didn't take place ... apparently, there's no gas chamber in existence.

Furthermore, Israel wasn't created due to "Holocaust" because Zionism started long before even WW1.

Im going to sound like a retard but was that a joke?

Oy vey

Or you know Jews control all those countries too.

I've done the math myself. There was enough capacity in the ovens to incinerate more than the ammount claimed.

Not really no. But it set me off investigating it. And I didn’t find any evidence of mass gassing. Other than stories from people. And any investigation being actively blocked. Including any excavation of trablinka. The Nuremberg trials only giving over 17 minutes to the camps (in many days of trails).

There should be irrefutable evidence of mass gassing of millions of people. But there just isn’t.

It's possible to entertain a thought without just accepting it as fact lmao

Not getting behind something is a colloquialism that means "support".

Like "Get behind your local sports team!"

I don't support or believe the idea that the Holocaust was a hoax.

I guess this is a difficult concept for you, but the persecution and killings of ethnic Germans happened before and shortly after the invasion, and the invasion put a stop to it. Far more people were killed before the invasion than they were at Bromberg, shortly after the invasion.

Please show me where Poland invaded Germany. I'll wait.

In my previous comment I described how Poland invaded Lithuania and Czechoslovakia. I'm not surprised that you weren't aware of that, but I literally told you about it just above.

This took all of five minutes to find. From the source:

So the British only cared about protecting Poland from Germany, not from Russia. Almost like they only cared about fighting Germany, and not Russia! That literally confirms what I've been saying.

Winston Churchill: "We will force this war upon Hitler, if he wants it or not." - Winston Churchill (1936 broadcast)

It claimed that after Poland, Hitler offered a truce and even drew up a map of Poland that gave most of it back, annexing only parts that originally belongs to Germany.

I am not sure if this is true, but it wouldn't at all surprise me given that Hitler made numerous sensible proposals before the invasion; which include: demilitarization of the key port areas, public referendum, accepting Gdynia as a Polish port city on the Baltic Sea, 1 km wide rail & road passages to link Eastern Prussia to Germany, or to link Poland to the Baltic Sea.

After the 3 week German-Polish War ends in victory for the Germans, Hitler declared:

"I attempted to find a tolerable solution. I submitted this attempt to the Polish rulers. You know these proposals. They were more than moderate. I do not know what mental condition the Polish Government was in when it refused these proposals. As an answer, Poland gave the order for the first mobilization, and my request to the Polish Foreign Minister to visit me to discuss these questions was refused. Instead of going to Berlin, he went to London.”

There are no laws saying "give Jews whatever they want because of the holocaust." Given it's been 75 years, "because the holocaust" is not a very effective rhetorical strategy for anything. The laws in certain Western nations against denying the holocaust are there because fascist and anti-Semitic movements in those countries, which at one point were the perpetrators of the holocaust, could be expected to deny its reality. This becomes even more insidious now that there are few living witnesses to the thing. Even at the time the Generals of the Allied powers made an attempt to thoroughly document everything because they knew people would come to doubt the reality of what had happened -- in part because the scope was so unimaginably huge and cruel.

Western nations have their own self interested reasons for supporting Israel. There's plenty of room for conspiracy there without denying the reality of the holocaust.

Benjamin H. Freedman 1961 speech...mind you this guy was born a jew and later converted

Some taboo history from 1878-2006(long)

I get where you're coming from; when you think of it in terms of our boys giving those evil Nazis a good kick in the balls, it sounds right as rain. But unfortunately (according to the article I linked in the edit to my first comment) it sounds more like they rounded up every German within even remote proximity to where an atrocity/massacre had occured. Then proceeded to torture the shit out of them, using any means necessary to extract a false confession, including literally crushing and permanently destroying their testicles... driving one 18 year old kid to commit suicide as he declared he could not force himself to tell their lies.

Just a little bit beyond a swift kick to the Nazi-nuts.. :/

1. Which has zero sources outside of German state propaganda.

2. Czechoslovakia wasnt german, they were czech and slovak. Yes, there were germans living in the Sudetenland but that area had never been part of anything called "Germany".