he's a real measurepants this Elon.

dick move

Botproof wont stop the hired guns like shareble and the US amy, and Ch*na.

I would love this! I hope someone can make this happen

Could be a good idea or an absolute disaster as another snopes false stamp of approval once they branched out past phishing scams and chain letters.

What happened with snopes?

People found out one of the founding couple used to be a registered Republican rather than neutral extremely nice Canadian folks

I would've thought them to be far left-leaning. Wow!

Looks can be decieving. For instance take the Obama deep state. You'd figure it would have democrats, however once you go down the list (McCabe, Rossenstein, Comey, Mueller, and so on) you find out thevonky Democrats in power are Obama and Hillary.

thinking that figureheads have power

bruh

Almost like Rs and Ds are one and the same.

So weird.

Who would've thiught huh?

there's more to it than just republican = right democrat = left.

communists/socialists and liberal globalists aren't the same thing. populist nationalists and neoconservatives aren't the same thing .

They are.

No, they're center-leaning.

You're telling me with a straight face Snopes is right-leaning? Are you sure about that?

Yes, got evidence to the contrary?

The debunked some right-wing alternative facts.

They got caught lying, or omitting major details, about stuff they didn't like.

Proof please.

Google search.

"They hurt my feelings and exposed lies I believe to be untrue."

You need to read something besides Daily Kos, frendo. Snopes has been totally discredited. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2016/12/22/the-daily-mail-snopes-story-and-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/#7a144aea227f

A good start to see why some people have issues with Snopes.

Run by a couple with an agenda

And?

You make it sound like that's a bad thing. So does that mean all the news sites you would support are the same thing as Snopes?

Nothing "happened", it's just that most people looking for real facts and answers don't look toward Snopes

within 8 years the DoD would buy it with taxpayer dollars for "benefits to national security". they will then use it for information gathering and to manipulate public opinion.

The DoD will be talking to Musk tomorrow about all those nice space contracts he's been getting.

or simply co-opt and gag like every significant US company

There is no such thing as bot proof. This would never happen.

I truly believe that automation would crack it fast, and even if it didn't we have people buying overseas humans to do the clicks.

No. They will elect musk as supreme leader of US

It'll probably set on fire.

Omg. I'm actually super excited to see him create this. Im sure the media frenzy over the net neutrality vote is to cover up for the fact that they all unanimously voted to do something to prevent Musk from creating this meanwhile they're letting us think they're on the side of the people.

Elon Musk is a multi multi billionaire, he's not here to help humanity.

Just because someone is massively successful doesn’t mean they don’t have positive visions for the world. Just rare to see as of late

Here is another post from his twitter: No, UAW does that. They want divisiveness & enforcement of 2 class “lords & commoners” system. That sucks. US fought War of Independence to get rid of a 2 class system! Managers & workers shd be equal w easy movement either way. Managing sucks btw. Hate doing it so much.

4:02 AM - May 23, 2018

He's a fucking puppet who looks to be a propagandist fighting against uniting the people against the ultra rich. Don't trust the guy, if he wanted to help the world he wouldn't be a billionaire.

Bill gates is helping the world, prob more than any.

He also fucked the PC market in the 90's to get where he is.

Isn’t he like saving thousands if not millions of lives in Africa? Who gives a shit about the PC market, idk if what you’re saying is true or false.

The only thing I remember Microsoft doing was bundling Internet Explorer with Windows and Netscape got mad about it.

Idk why I am asking challenging questions in r/Conspiracy forgot where I was

My point was he didn’t really even do anything bad. Homie is over reacting.

Yeah I was referring to the original guy I responded to lol not you. You’re good NetScape buddy

Not everyone can succeed: news at 11

Not all unions are golden eggs. Some are golden geese.

He can't even bring himself to type out "should" because he knows how much bullshit his sentence is.

That’s so very cherry picked.

And yet the dudes companies are rife with employee dissatisfaction and poor moral because Elon treats them like shit.

Are you serious? Your last sentence is so mind-boggling and fallacious.

The difference between you, myself, and Elon Musk is the billion dollars. Besides just the money comes influence and power - the two things required to make any change in this country anymore. Elon Musk without a billion dollars is like Tony Stark without his fortune. Elon Musk seems to be taking an active approach to improving some aspects of this life while he’s living. More so than any other billionaire I’ve heard of. To assume Elon Musk can’t help the world as a billionaire is literally the opposite of the truth. Elon Musk is able to help the world almost entirely because he is a billionaire. Many of the ideas and plans Elon Musk is working on are not possible without his massive amount of wealth. He would be just another guy on the internet posting ideas and hopes for a better society with no avenue to actually make those things happen. Just like you and I, buddy.

You take everything you hear literally, tell me what he has done? I'm not talking about donating to charities as we all know most of the money donated to charities goes to administration costs. He can't even provide a safe work place for his workers. But he's this rich super space man so everyone will turn a blind eye. Where he got his money is questionable in itself. He's got all these super duper cool ideas like the free hyper train thing for Americans but until I see that happening I take everything with a grain of salt. And I'll refer to home for me when Tasmania put in the huge hydro power plant. The selling pitch was once taxes had payed it off Tasmanian's would get free power not to mention the thing can provide for the whole state. But that never happened, instead they started selling power to the state of Victoria. I'm not denying that Musk is making good technology but he's not changing the world, He's a capitalist and that's how he got so rich, and you dont get that rich without stepping on heads.

He can't even provide a safe work place for his workers.

This was true but has since changed drastically:

The company did release more recent data, which indicates its record of safety incidents went from slightly above the industry average in late 2016, to a performance in the first few months of 2017 that was 32% better than average. The company said that its decision to add a third shift, introduce a dedicated team of ergonomics experts, and improvements to the factory’s “safety teams” account for the significant reduction in incidents since last year. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

Why aren't you complaining about other auto-manufacturers? It seems clear that, as of now, Tesla is far from the most unsafe conditions to work in. To add to this, Elon Musk commented on this himself saying:

“We’re a money-losing company,” Musk added. “This is not some situation where, for example, we are just greedy capitalists who decided to skimp on safety in order to have more profits and dividends and that kind of thing. It’s just a question of how much money we lose. And how do we survive? How do we not die and have everyone lose their jobs?” https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

If you know anything about the history of Tesla, then you understand there have been a few situations that risked the entire company as they were essentially burning through money with no profits. Had Elon not pushed his workers, Tesla might not be in the position it is today. I don't see any evidence that an employee was ever forced to continue working either.

Where he got his money is questionable in itself.

Lolwut. If you want to take the time to learn Elon Musk's history of entrepreneurship, read this link.

As far as the rest of your post about your home, I failed to find any news articles mentioning any link between that and Musk. This was the news article I found about it: http://www.afr.com/business/energy/hydro-tasmania-big-users-ask-why-it-sold-power-to-mainland-ahead-of-crisis-20160303-gn9asz

I would guess that this is probably related to bad reviews of new Tesla model, or of some of his other government subsidized projects.

Well for starters, you have to be wealthy to own a Tesla and hence I am an automotive spraypainter and earn less than what the car is worth a year I can't exactly afford it so how can I give it a bad review? Secondly I'll refer to a latter comment of mine: Here is another post from his twitter: No, UAW does that. They want divisiveness & enforcement of 2 class “lords & commoners” system. That sucks. US fought War of Independence to get rid of a 2 class system! Managers & workers shd be equal w easy movement either way. Managing sucks btw. Hate doing it so much.

4:02 AM - May 23, 2018

He's a fucking puppet who looks to be a propagandist fighting against uniting the people against the ultra rich. Don't trust the guy, if he wanted to help the world he wouldn't be a billionaire.

I would guess that this ....

"This" being - Elon Musk bitching about Corporate Media.

He was not bitching when they were singing him praises.

No he's bitching about Unions. UAW being the united automobile workers union. So guess what? This is quite close to home for me. The fact that he's saying unions want a two class system is a load of crap. Unions want workers to have more rights and say in a workplace over the ultra rich scum bags like Musk.

yeah I guessed that this was something that could hurt his pocket.

It's related to everyone noticing Tesla is going bankrupt

Same with trump or amazon guy.

Or Bill Gates

But reddit doesn't like to talk about that

Just curious, what shitty things has Bill Gates done other than “be a billionaire”?

Reddit likes to defend white people using the n word. It's basically just a shitshow of idiocy

Except Trump isn't a billionaire, just claims to be

That was certainly sarcasm

1) Popular opinion doesn't equal credibility.

2) If Reddit is any indication, any such system would be a ripe and easy target for manipulation.

Exactly.

Once again, opinion =/= fact

It amazes me how many people don't get this

Because we're raised to believe everything is a popularity contest.

And if you disagree with popular opinion, you're essentially shunned.

Story of my life.

Lol shunning people who don’t agree with you is all reddit is. Reddit is liberal af

If you oppose liberal social values in this present climate then you support hate and racism. It really is that simple.

Imo idealogs and partisanship are fucking garbage

That's fine, but meeting societal needs and fighting hate and racism should not evoke partisanship. Supporting good ideas does not make one an ideologue.

Lol and how do we fight hate?

I'm thinking some sort of camp where we can educate people again.

Like the one China sent the Muslims to?

Or like where Hitler tried to stop Jews from destroying the economy and corrupting the banking systems? How is forcibly sending someone somewhere for having thoughts or speeding practical? It’s not even legal. /r/facepalm

I was pointing out the absurdity of his statement.

I was agreeing sorry

Dont worry. I saw the sarcasm.

Maybe something like camp "Pray the Gay Away?"

I think South Park has a very informative episode on that one...

Fighting racism is the dumbest concept. Moving forward, realize that the only thing "fighting racism" is meant to do is displace white people from their homelands. Only white people need to let all others overwhelm their population to the point of no longer having their own culture and civilization. Import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world.

Sounds like you are one of the racists that we are going to have to fight. :)

Ahh, I misread daddymooch and was appropriately downvoted for it. Thank you.

That couldn’t even be further from the truth. Seriously? If you don’t believe the ideology of liberals that means you’re a racist? Just because someone disagrees with your political views doesn’t mean they can’t be good people. Stop being close-minded and wake up.

I'm not being closed minded it's just realistic. You can not support Trumpism/Alt-Right/Modern Conservatiism and also claim to be of kind heart. They are no longer compatible.

U said opposing liberal values makes u racist. People can have conservative political beliefs and not be racist.

So basically like people can have liberal, progressive and socialist views and not be SJW's?

Yeah. We call them democrats. Or liberals. Especially since they also call themselves that usually. I remember when being an SJW was touted as a good thing like 6 years ago. Its just that their movement has shot itself in the foot a lot.

You're a fool. Legitimately.

Instead of resorting to childish namecalling maybe explain to me why you think otherwise

Enoch Powell, Oswald Mosley, George Rockwell, William Pierce. Voices you've never heard that could do you a world of good.

You have directed me to study an ethnocentrist, a nazi, a fascist, and an avowed white supremacist in a conversation about racism. How do you reasonably expect me to respond?

I expect you to shriek "Racist!" and move on with your life. You're well trained.

Another useless discussion with one of you people

You're mind is set. I don't have the time to discuss race and politics. You're welcome to listen to others.

Was that sarcasm? I sure hope so.

Are you serious? I can't really tell anymore and maybe that is the ultimate agenda.

did you forget the /s?

Wow I can't tell if trolling or serious

Any side that says you're either on my side or you're a subhuman monster is going to be automatically and completely opposed by me. Nothing in life is obvious good vs obvious evil, and anyone that tells you that it is the case is trying to manipulate you.

What is good about conservative social values?

I’d like to know the answer too. It seems their plan is do the opposite of the Bible

I like how neither of you paid attention to the part where I said obvious good and obvious evil are illusions. I'm not a religious person. In the real world you make complex decisions based on real world criteria. I know you both are more concerned with feeling righteous than real life, so ignore this too.

I think the opinion that we should fix American infrastructure before we fix foreign is a conservative social issue.

Fixing our infrastructure is something liberals and conservatives agree on. How we pay for it is something we probably disagree on.

Key point of my statement was the before we fix others part.

Yeah I don't think liberals as a whole want to fix other country's infrastructure before our own lol

Israel and ukraine have both gotten 4 billion from us in the last 5 years.

Flint is still fucked. Theres still a toxic area full of lead where my towns gun factory was. A 120 year old building collapses from disrepair and abandonment every 3 months in my hometown.
I'm not conservative or non conservative btw. I'm just a dude reading stuff about the government.

Right, and liberals would agree we should fix those problems before other countries' problems. Sending 4 billion here and there is about using soft power to maintain influence over the world. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions of dollars a revamp of our infrastructure would cost.

As a liberal I would say tax the rich more to pay for it. That's usually where conservatives would disagree.

LMAO

Which is the worst part of reddit and why it sometimes falls apart. People shit on other sites but at least you can voice an opinion without it being sent to the gulag.

People in this sub shit on other people and suggest they have mental health issues when they get cornered in an argument based on facts and actual events. Excuse me if I'm a little cynical about the motives behind all the crying based on this. Yes, reality and perception are often widely different but that argument is based entirely on the presumption that there are no knowable facts upon which to make decisions. It seems that's the common thread in this thread.

many subs are ban-happy, instant gulag for disagreeing

And if you disagree with popular opinion, you're essentially shunned.

This is correct, but being in a sub about /r/conspiracy you might want to remember that not all conspriacies are true. There are well documented research that shows the problems with conspiratioral thinking that really hampers the conspiracy community. For every MK-Ultra exposing muckraker there are 10 people of the type who don't believe the Earth is round or that every scientist in the world is lying about verifiable data.

So when one goes against the popular opinion, they need to make sure they aren't going against verfiable data in the belief that it's "opinions" or conspriacies.

Why make these comments if we don’t know the algorithm. Give musk the benefit of the doubt until we see this. The world can really use such a site.

Anyone see the nbc piece on Jordan Peterson vs the actual interview. It was disgusting

Link me.

Jees, I read that as Lick me.

Y-yes master

NBC hack job:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/who-is-jordan-peterson-favorite-figure-of-the-alt-right-1221615171523

Extended interview:

https://youtu.be/IMBfT38xbhU

Disgraceful. I'm sure if you are on the left this seems great. It is like when you have that player on your team that plays a bit dirty and everyone else hates them. I think we are fucked either way, right or left. I think people are just tired of being fed bullshit and anyone who calls them on it is going to do well.

Fuck that, this doesn't seem great to me.

Bullshit that supposedly supports my views does nothing but push away the people that can actually see through it, and that's the last thing i want. Jordan Peterson mostly opposes the radical left, it's god damn stupid to think that that makes him an alt-righter. This news just pushes away people, nothing else.

He is anti extreme on either end he is not against liberals. He would argue against either side of something was out of line. He wants balance and reason.

Woes absolutely massacred Peterson a few months back.

what is Woes?

Woes

He has stated that if he ran for political office he would do so with the LPC. It would be a healthy change for the LPC or CPC to have somebody focused of individual freedoms over group identity. One day we will stop the left right debate and focus on the authoritarian and libertarian divide.

I think we should just focus debates on reason, evidence, and values imo. Even the founding fathers didn’t know how to deal with partisanship. But they weren’t fans.

This type of news happens on all sides. It is all of news. Even sports which should be very cut and dry. This is why ESPN has turned to crap. They have added all of this bullshit to sports that is biased or skewed for clicks and views. It is great for major market teams, but gut wrenching for the rest.

Why does Peterson act as though classical liberalism isn't itself an ideology? The very fact he speaks of fellow classic liberals as something other than ideologues is evidence he himself is an ideologue.

That logic is absolutely wrong... acknowledging an ideologue or an ideologies existence doesn’t make you one. Any reasonable person should reject your premise and thus your conclusion. He would say he doesn’t like the concept of any party or any kind of identity politics. Where he lies on a spectrum is likely reason and value based. He acknowledges where people are on a spectrum but he doesn’t like people being just left or right. I’m all over the spectrum depending on evidence and my own values. I don’t blindly want to support something because the blanket ideological group may cover most of what I think or more than the other side. Sides are stupid and distract from discussing real solutions. And I imagine he feels the same. You should look into what an ideologue is.

No, it sounds like you should look into the definition of ideology and ideologue.

Ya their not the same.

Wow, great argument.

Says the person who’s response to asking what their idea of ideologue is was roughly “no you”...

i·de·o·logueˈīdēəˌlôɡ,ˈidēəˌlôɡ/noun

1. an adherent of an ideology, especially one who is uncompromising and dogmatic.

   i·de·ol·o·gyˌīdēˈäləjē,ˌidēˈäləjē/noun

2. 1.a system of ideas and ideals, especially one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

This increases my suspicion that today is the first time you’ve leaned about this word and that much of your conjecture comes from a brief google search.

Not at all. It tells me you, like Peterson, are misusing the term. You apply your own definitions to terms without context and expect everyone else to accept your misuse. You're muddying language, as is Peterson. Which, ironically, is something Peterson claims to stand against.

And yeah, dude. Totally. I've never engaged in a conversation where either party utilized the term 'ideology' or 'ideologue' until now. I searched the term to prove that you're the ignoramus misusing terms, not me. Nice attempt trying to turn that around on me to deflect from your own ignorance, though. Really shows you're willing to engage in discourse in good faith and integrity.

Oh he is. But he’s a cool as shit ideologue.

Because like he pointed out when asked about the analogy that most of the stuff found in his book is almost as a father trying to teach his kid.

Classical liberalism has been primarily lost and forgotten, we have taken it for granted so now something so simple as "standing with your back straight and tell the truth" is considered profound

I don't think that's profound for most people. For some, absolutely, but in nations of 350,000,000+ even some can mean millions. I think he's doing G-d's work, but classic liberalism is itself an ideology and Peterson is himself an ideologue.

Enh, that's playing a bit fast and loose with the meaning of ideologue. Simply adhering to most of a particular philosophical paradigm is not equivalent to being an ideologue. Being an ideologue entails doing the former along with hubristic certitude, irrational dogmatism.

No it isn't. Believing with such certainty that classical liberalism is objectively valid and necessary to the point it no longer even qualifies as an ideology is ideological.

Ideologues are the worst

People who take an interest in politics are inherently ideological.

Yes. Those are the worst

Would you say you're ideologically opposed to political ideologues?

I'm against the system of thought that perpetuates partisan beliefs.

Classical liberalism has been primarily lost and forgotten

If only

He is very blatantly an ideologue, but shitting on ideologues is cool in a certain segment of the population that tends to ignore hypocrisy and projection.

Because he's an imbicile.

I don't think that's a fair judgment.

Beer me that link.

See above

Yeah, but, new Digg Reddit!

And we’ve been fed a steady stream of Silicon Valley ideology for the past decade that says that a crowd-sourced, hive-minded, what’s most trending outlook will always give us the best results.

Absolutely. It's completely ridiculous. Everyone is frightened to have their own opinions. I believe that's a conspiracy in itself.

Normopathy.

Isn't it kinda interesting all the tech billionaires are trying to get in on the information-warfare racket? Bezos with the Post, Omidyar with The Intercept, Zuck with FB news, now it looks like Elon is trying to get in on the game. Must be a very lucrative industry.

Because we're raised to believe everything is a popularity contest.

Depending a bit on where you were raised obviously. This seems more common in the US than for example Scandinavia. Atleast that's my take away from talking to both Americans and Swedes.

I wonder if needlessly discrediting every single news source as fake news has anything to do with that...

I mean, we're already heading towards a full-on, post-truth society. Musk just wants to get us there in less than 2 seconds.

Ludicrous mode?

well, he is some kind of rocket surgeon.

Once again, (because we're presuming we all know what eveyrone eles always says) not all opinions are equal and being pissy about ignoring multiple educated opinions based on facts is a lot different than opinions based entirely on fucking speculation.

By their very nature opinions are not facts. You can base opinions on facts (or lies), but that doesn't mean the opinion is true or false.

In theory, yes, but in reality, everyone can have their own facts now thanks to tribalization, selective reading of the facts (cherry-picking), and a whole lot of mental gymnastics, which, in fairness, isn't hard to do since at this point everyone is a gold medalist for mental gymnastics.

I would take the masses opinion over Snopes' "fact" any day of the week though. At least one would be useful in one way -- telling me what people are thinking.

What the majority says, the minority follows...Society 101. Learned this in Kindergarten.

People believe that the majority HAS to be right. It just makes sense, I mean the entire god given system of democracy is based on that very concept.

And is exactly why it doesn't work. The majority is most often wrong because for the most part people are highly susceptible to herd mentality

1) Agree. But I really doubt he's actually going to do this, he's pissed about the media fucking with him and being dishonest - but for a billionaire genius like Musk, this is the equivalent of a normal person saying "I oughtta key that asshole's car." He probably won't do it, but he certainly could.

2) True, but he addresses that his theoretical site would have to be botproof and actively seek out and unmask any disinfo campaigns. It's right there in the post.

Ya but even if it does somehow become botproof websites are a reflection of the community at large. The big things the bots have showed us is they just need to start the social proof ball rolling downhill and real people happily pick it up and push it farther. I wouldn’t doubt the that T_D was started by bot action but was taken over by real people. CTR took over /r/politics but I think that community is set towards that thinking now without needing much manipulation.

I just don’t see how to can develop a community and prevent even just normal people from trying to spoof certain ideologies ahead of others. The messages we do hear tend to be driven by the most vocal people in the first place.

So I like the idea I just don’t know how even with botproofing it could possibly avoid bias. Never mind most people prefer bias news commentary over unbiased news. Hence why most shows are that way. Even the local news doesn’t seem completely unbiased.

Isn't it similar to the challenges faced by Wikipedia? They seem to have decent handle on preventing the worst manipulations.

This is why it can't be based on a community. It has to speak for itself.

The only way to do this would be to show multiple media outlets key points of coverage on a subject on the same page and outline the differences and similarities from each on a given subject.

Example - The Russia investigation. On the page you can see every major media outlets various coverage, from FOX to CNN as well as some international media outlets. Once you get them side by side, you can then see which points all of these outlets share as well as where they differ. What's CNN saying that FOX isn't? And vice versa. What is being said overseas versus what is being said in the US?

That also gives you the opportunity for promoting real journalism through investigating what is being excluded from a news cycle altogether. Sure, FOX and CNN might both be covering different talking points on any given subject, but what is it that they are both neglecting that may help inform the public?

I've been working on this idea for over a year now.

That is what I’d lean towards as the most interesting but I had some issues with it. First how the hell do you make it consumable especially for mobile users? If you’re summarizing that needs a ton of man power and also leaves an opening for a 3rd party bias.

The big one is how do you get outside of the box ideas without letting in crazies? The Iraq war for example. The mainstream media was all for it as a whole. Shit the Syrian stuff now mainstream is totally for but it doesn’t have popular support still. Places like infowars will be against both but then you have to deal with gay frog horseshit which questions who cares if they are anti war even with the best possible argument. The really specialized stuff might not fit into daily stuff. I just can see many puzzle pieces missing when trying to balance a topic out.

I hope you figure it out as a libertarian I’m more interested in what’s left off the news rather than what they cover. I don’t care about stormy Daniels. I’m worried about the insanity in Yemen and the possible collapse of the bond market.

If something is bot proof then you do it the old fashioned way: pay people in poor countries pennies.

But that's easily detectable and addressable. The reason Twitter, fb, reddit and so on won't fix it is that the revenue stream is tied to the interactions and not the quality.

Which would still be a disinfo campaign that could theoretically be unmasked. Any such coordinated campaign would have patterns associated with it that an AI should be able to identify.

people in poor countries

Then they need to also pay for multiple VPN, because people voting from outside of the US can easily be removed.

Does Reddit even try to stop bots though? I'm not saying it's easy, I don't even know if it's possible but if you could hypothetically prevent bots and just have real people talking, it would be much different than Reddit.

Doubt it. I'm sure they get kickbacks for turning a blind eye.

The 2016 election was a shit show. Lol Reddit still hasnt caught on that djt won and Hillary lost.

I remember when you used to be able to dissent on this site without getting shat on.

I remember when worldnews used to skew kind of to the right. Not really sure what happened.

The fairies from Tumblr found a new home.

Exactly. It’s so evident on the front page.

When was this? During the McCarthy era?

Reddit in 2008 and 2012 was strongly in favor of Ron Paul.

Who can't love this guy

I didn't realize that Reddit was the bastion of worldnews.

Worldnews is a default sub. It's views align pretty closely with the whole site.

I'm not sure either, but there is a strong perception of non-organic manipulation by those with money.

What do you mean by "reddit hasn't caught on the djt won"? I see articles about prez Trump posted all over the place.

It was a joke. But according to the crap posted on here regularly dude shoulda been impeached and beheaded week one in office.

I think he'll easily win q second term barring an economic collapse or major controversy.

I think it depends so much on who the Dems run. Right now it's totally up in the air for me. I think midterm results will give a much clearer picture.

Reddit absolutely stops bots. I bet they ban tens of thousands a day, or prevent them from creating an account in the first place. If they didn't, the site would be completely filled with obvious spam, rather than reposts and clever attempts at making things go viral.

There are plenty of bots that make it through the filters, but this place would be literally unusable if they weren't stopping the majority.

The hundreds of posts from places like r/esist and r/MarchAgainstTrump that were vote-botted onto the front page day after day during 2017 seem to go against that theory.

Why are you so sure of that? Is there actual reports from reddit about accounts being banned for these reasons? I haven't seen it. As far as I know they absolutely haven't stopped any bots at all. I have seen no evidence of it. It also seems to go against their interests, they have an incentive to not do it. I would love to know more about how reddit does or doesn't deal with automated accounts.

Why are you so sure that reddit is killing bots rather than it just being the moderators of various subs that stop spam bots? Could it just be that the more subtle kinds of bots are more effective? I've read the articles about how bot accounts will repost older content and then have various accounts repost to that new post popular comments from the previous reposts in order to harvest karma. They subtly build karma on accounts and then use those accounts later to promote other messages, usually for money. If they were overt spam bots they'd just get banned by moderators and that would be that, the subtle kind is more effective than the noisy kind.

Either it will be flooded with bots, or the systems in place to prevent bots will be too cumbersome for normal folk to deal with enough to use it.

WTF does 'popular opinion' even mean? Perceived popular opinion maybe.

Most up votes on reddit lol

He said BOT FREE. Why did you gloss over that?

Because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

Why do you think it's even possible to make a website that is immune to bots?

It's not. Anything a person can do, a machine can also be programmed to do.

Unless the site will require some kind of blockchain identification to login. That will greatly reduce the chances of any kind of impersonation.

Because half of them are paid posters with pathetic little lives - and the other half are useful idiots that vote with the majority of the crowd.

Honestly, one of the easiest and low tech ways to change this website is to make all vote tallies invisible to everyone forever.

Anything a person can do, a machine can also be programmed to do.

Uh..no.

Did you miss the /s or are you really asking this

I mean we also glossed over it's Elon Musk, who is garbage.

We also glossed over that means he can control everything from his side, who needs bots.

The whole concept is garbage from top to bottom. Literally.

So who cares what is glossed over, the shit is worthless and you should see that.

What if he asks for ID to make an account? He's the kinda guy who could just stick kiosks everywhere to register you. Something like that would require a lot more than clicking a link in a confirmation email for the whole thing to work.

We're going full "The Circle' now?

Maybe.

You wouldn't need an account. You can detect and prevent bots and paid spammers easily enough if you actually want to.

Sure, if they're all in one place but a botnet with sufficiently randomized behavior isn't quite so easy to detect.

Not if your site banned astroturfing.

Even if not manipulated, it is pointless if JonQPublic doesn’t care about said credibility.

It's the social Darwin effect.

Natural selection is evidenced in gene section, therefore it must also work in sociocultural contexts.

Capitalism can work economically, therefore it must also be moral.

Democracy is a good system of government, therefore truths can be decided democratically.

Yeah, he's just proposing Reddit, but with an institutional superiority complex.

Even without manipulation people just vote positively on retarded, lowest-common-denominator bullshit and vote negatively on things they don't like to hear.

At the very least you'd need to introduce some kind of intelligence test for the users.

You've now disqualified 98% of users

the main problem is that it would also eliminate smart people who just thought taking an IQ test to use a website was absolutely wankery

Man the world sucks

If Reddit is any indication, any such system would be a ripe and easy target for manipulation.

Including this subreddit?

You could definitely make the argument that removing bots and auto-posters would go a long fucking way to at least narrowing it down to actual popular opinion which IMHO is STILL better than what we have now where you can't tell the difference between hired bullshit and honest discourse.

Popular opinion when the public is properly educated is STILL the best and only option. You have to overcome popular opinion or support totalitarian control. There is no in between. You're appealing to some authority with any argument you make, one way or the other. My vote is for the most informed, redundantly researched opinion, verified by multiple sources. These seem like things that could be turned into a process for vetting news and historical accounting of events.

I just don't believe that everyone's vote and opinion have equal worth. Like you said, they must be properly educated. It irks me that uneducated and emotionally unstable people can cast a vote of equal worth to mine. It's simply not right.

What do I care about popular opinion?

Oh lots of people think beating children is fine. Studies say otherwise though. See?

Dude, no. It'd be all about whipping a child equals good, fuck studies. People are idiots, a person is smart.

Also to think Elon Musk ain't going to manipulate shit is insane. He basically wants it so his name doesn't get out there negatively. He will fuck with the system.

Nothing about this system works.

But most people feel that way which is fucking sad

https://youtu.be/JLvyZJZMYpw

Reddit is manipulated by bots. If Musk were able to make his service botproof (which seems like a big if), it would not be as easy to manipulate. You could still pay a room full of people in Bangladesh to manually manipulate the results, but that would be nowhere near as efficient and easier to trace.

Yeah, this is a terrible idea. I'm sure Musk is imagining a billion people just like him signing up to verify stories according to his standards. Take a look at any social media and you'll see how little popularity correlates with quality.

Came here to say this.

this is a technological problem with a technological solution, it just so happens that for profit corporations have no interest in solving it because you can make more money lying, always. always.

just for some reason no one wants to teach their children to lie for money and the ones that do are frequently murdered by their lying amoral children. (lol not really but maybe...)

Your opinion seems to be very popular! Have an upvote.

True, but opinion not being fact does not negate the importance of opinions.

Yes, an individual's opinion is important. But via point #2, one single person with enough technical know-how can make their singular opinion be counted hundreds, or thousands, or millions of times, depending on the forum.

On Reddit, it only takes a few well placed votes at a critical time, to boost or hide stories.

With the FCC and net neutrality comments, the manipulation was blatant, with no attempt to hide. But there was no need to hide, because the FCC had the political cover to be able to brush it off without repercussions.

So, how do you make a website that is resistant to these sorts of things?

The first step is to probably make all accounts 100% public. The only way to get an account is to have someone verify your identity through SSN, driver's license, birth certificate, etc, and then to publish the Name, City, and State of every account for everyone who participates in that website. Account sign up must be done in person, and the subject's photo should be taken, along with fingerprints. The verification code for accessing the online account should be sent through the mail.

But even then, that would still not stop organized groups of people from banding together to try to manipulate the system. Or even people who are willing to sell their voice for money, and say what people want them to say. Or even people who will sign up for their account and then sell it completely. Plenty of homeless people, especially, would gladly trade their identities for some extra dollars.

Nah, he just wants to measure how much MORE propaganda needs to be issued to change the narrative.

This is just another 'money' move. It'll be every bit as bad as snopes. He is relying on corporate investment for all of his ventures, don't kid yourselves into thinking he's in any way, shape or form on your side.

Controlled opposition!

Here's how it works - Left screams "It's black, it's black" - The right screams "It's white, it's white". Everyone (because our brains are set up that way) chooses a side and gets angry every time the opposing viewpoint is bought up. Meanwhile the actual plan is grey and is pushed through unnoticed.

It's all so cleverly done that nobody even realises they are now slaves. Take a look at yourself in the morning. A lot of you will put on at least a keycard or nametag and walk around proudly displaying your 'owners' name.

Every day I see people who are owned by KFC, McDonalds, BurgerKing. The people who are owned by banks walk around with their ID cards and cryptokeys wrapped around their neck.

If you spend more than 3 hours doing something you don't want to do per day, where the main aim is to make other people wealthier (shareholders or owners) then you are owned. What part of "Please sir, is it okay if I go on holiday for two weeks next June?" You aren't fucking free.

Keep your fucking face down and work boy!

Oh but here's your latest 'hope' - Elon Musk - that's right slave, believe in Elon, believe in Alex Jones, believe in the bullshit music you listen to slave, believe in reddit, believe in 4chan2chan8chanplebchan believe in them all slave.

Co-sign 1 million percent.

Slaves don't even see the shackles they wear.

In the words of the philosopher poet Oscar Gamble, "They don't think it be like it is, but it do be"

Welp, reading that was depressing as hell. You aren't wrong. It's just a difficult truth to come face-to-face with.

Corporate investment. So he we be venturing away from lining his pockets with government subsidies.

So what's the alternative? Don't work and have the ability to do whatever you want, whenever? Yeah, nice fantasy world you got there. So if you were to become a business owner, and needed help running the business, now all the sudden any employee you hire/help you obtain, they are somehow now your slave? Doesn't seem logical...

Doesn't seem logical...that's because its bullshit Marxist nonsense. Its privileged under acheiver tripe. Work is voluntary, no one is a slave to McDonald's or anyone else.

I'm a full time carpenter and part time blacksmith. I build rich peoples houses and make metal implements I cant afford. I love what I do and it makes me money. I dont want some mansion or 200 dollar knife so I provode those things in order to get what I want.

Sure, I dont want to be there sometimes. (Today I have to use stupid thick caulk and my arms are gonna be sore as fuck in ten hours.) That doesnt make me a slave. It makes me a contributing member of society.

It's not hard to work for yourself.

People need to learn how to figure things out for themselves. People can't just sit around expecting some sort of magical truth machine to appear and always give them 100% unfiltered truth. That mentality just allows propaganda to be even more effective than it already has been. This ridiculous demand for fact checkers just shows how lazy the average person is. They won't spend 5 minutes learning their own local politics, let alone geopolitics. Unless he somehow manages to make it "bot-proof" (good luck with that, pal), it's not a real solution.

Strong, more influential fact checkers...be careful what you wish for.

Well you aren’t wrong but you are horribly narcissistic. I work to make others wealthier but in their wealth I also find wealth. Not only is that fact but I have proof bc I work at a resort in the accounting office and I know where ALL the money goes.

You can quit any job any time. You can work 100% for yourself, not share the fruits of your labor with anyone. Here's the thing, workers voluntary agree to work. Slaves don't get paid. So get the hell out of here with that marxists nonsense. You think slaves can ask to take a holiday? What a fucking joke.

Could not have said it better myself.

I sometimes think maybe this or that person who comes along might be the one who changes things but then I realise they just have not been corrupted yet like they all do.

The ones who were not are dead and they were few and far between.

We are doomed so might as well strap in and enjoy the ride.

You sign up for work voluntarily. If you don't like working for someone else, then start your own company. What's that? It's hard? There's risks? Then work for someone else who was brave enough to take the risk. If you don't have the skills to get hired for a job that doesn't treat you like garbage then improve your skills. Go back to school, use online courses, do shit in your free time. This wageslave rant with no proposed solution is just whining.
Everyone is responsible for their own life. If you don't want to make something out of it, then that's fine, no one should force you, but don't complain about lying in the bed you made

I'd be curious to know how you go about your life without being a slave to anyone. Please share your secrets.

This could be very good, at least in concept. I for one am sick of the media telling the world what to think...or maybe I’m just sick of people listening it the media on what the think. In any case, it’s would be nice to have a system in place to weigh in when a news source is actually just speaking for investors and advertisers. Maybe he should extend the scope of the site to include politicians too. Sort of like a rotten tomato score of how trustworthy a politician is...it’d probably fail once it turned out they’re all rotten.

Isn’t that what BRAVE is? It’s a decentralized app ran off Ethereum platform

Publica. It's a decentralized publishing platform.

Rich people are so good at coming up with black mirror episodes by mistake.

by mistake

DaddyMusk

What if people were convinced of something that wasn't true. the population would self police itself from the truth...pretty much the same idea of Fahrenheit 451.

And what is going to stop a group of paid people to manipulate the results?

This is super sketchy and I hope more people are aware. Do you believe the majority of people know the truth?

Dont even have to pay people to manipulate results. Identity politics will result in equally shitty scores for each and every journalist. Every Democrat will bomb the ratings of Fox News editors, and vice versa for CNN and MSNBC

But what about the journos who get propped up because of this? You could see a lot of lesser known media outlets rise above in this rating system.

Car accidents and suicides, my friend. Got to plug the leak.

Well, you just took that to a dark place. I was just suggesting that you'd see some new names thrown around as references due to this system. Not that people were going to fucking kill them.

You must be new here.

I love this.

You would.

I've been subscribed here longer than you've had your account young Padawan learner.

Ah, a dicksizing competition. This is my fourth account. I've been here for over 10 years.

It always brings out the best in people. That's why you had to reply, had to show your best!

He who carries a big stick fools me twice.. uh... shame on ... shame on you!

Are you aware of what happens to anyone that threatens the system?

Hint: take a look at how many unfortunate events have fallen on the Kennedy family.

The system is not broke. It functions exactly like the owners want. Any threat to the system is met with a swift and tragic end.

Geeze, do you eat your own bullshit for breakfast too?

But there will still be a sense of fairness assuming each user gets a single vote per article and there is limited cases of paid participation and secondary accounts. The market forces of everyone voting on everything they read (both upvotes and downvotes) will reveal the more moderate of writers with higher ratings of truth. All depending on how Elon arranges the voting process and how much data we get to see.

This is only true if the demographics of the user base is roughly even. If it ends up being used by more conservatives than progressives for example, then it ends up being skewed to the right.

No, it won't. Not unless there is some additional layer of vetting or curation involved.

Thought experiment time. Let's forget botnets and brigading: we'll work instead with a hypothetical userbase of sufficient number and ideological diversity to be useful. So:

1. Highly partisan content will tend towards a roughly 50/50 ratio if it gets a lot of eyeballs, regardless of the quality or factual nature of the content (remember, we're assuming a balanced set of users). Less voted items will have more highly imbalanced ratios as they will tend to attract only sympathetic voters. We see this pattern on reddit.
2. Non partisan content that doesn't otherwise rustle any jimmies will be the most upvoted content, especially if it's 'feel-good'. Think youtube or anywhere else that already uses this system. Best article ratio of the week preview: Dude who rescues kittens from shelters and/or spunky cancer kid.
3. Really downvoted stuff is an interesting question. Some stuff will just be legitimate garbage. But! Consider an article that might cover some sort of controversial topic in a challenging way, provoking a strong, broad based negative reaction. This could be a quality piece of journalism but, because it ruffles almost everyone's feathers, it would end up in the garbage bin.

Basically, there is nothing new about this model as it's being presented - lots of websites use a similar one, and without any other layer of sorting or curation (think communities in reddit) it's just gonna lead to a bunch of mindless, inoffensive pablum sitting at the top of the queue.

Maybe people who always vote along party lines' votes should be counted less than those who appear to have a more balanced voting history.

I know that just takes the game one step deeper, and accounts will get bought and sold etc, but this would all be part of the project.

This could also be the thing that gets Musk into blockchain tech.

Not so much identity politics (since all politics is identity politics) so much as tribal epistemology, or in layman's terms, the politicization of personal identity.

Yes, this. The stupid shit I did when suffering ideological possession. The mental gymnastics we perform to defend our beliefs that we gained through emotional appeal in the first place. I mean, I think Trump is a horrible SOB, but I also think he's still not as bad as all the media paints him.

I'm guessing you don't have a daughter.

I'm guessing you're reading comprehension is low and propensity to be ruled by emotions is high.

I'm guessing you are a child and/or are living in your mother's basement.

I'm not the one making assumptions because Trump isn't mentioned as being the antichrist in the previous comment.

Can you read? I said he's terrible. But because I don't believe everything the media says about him and recognize the handful of not terrible things he's accomplished, I'm the child.

Seems legit.

What has he accomplished? Name one thing that was good for the country. I'll wait.

All I've seen is handouts to the very rich, condemning the poor (and not so poor) to die and giving those who hate a platform on the national stage. I've also seen him try to kill net neutrality, environmental regulations, renewable energy. Luckily, there are some good people fighting. Support for turmp makes you a bad person, you are racist and a misogynist, no two ways about it.

The media gives him a pass on most everything. He isn't criticized enough and people that support him haven't been made to feel bad about that stance. Hopefully he doesn't wreck the country too much and we can put things back together better than ever but that's going to take a lot of work and there's no place for nationalism, racism, anti-intellectualism or misogyny in any future USA that is a world power.

You're immature so you get treated immature. And yes, you made assumptions first. I responded precisely to what you said.

The point is simple. Get people to talk about media and its bias. Perhaps more people will see them for what they are, and perhaps if enough light is shown on them a change will occur.

It won't work. Modern news media produces the content it does precisely because news media consumers prefer to read schlock over good reporting. They're not reading investigative/analytical 1,000+ word feature stories, they are reading a 2-300 word lololol piece of some celebrity caught not wearing underwear.

So when you create a ratings system like this, most users are going to rate shit based on what they read, and they aren't reading god journalism. The end result will be places like Buzzfeed getting mileage from system, but good/actual journalists will continue to be ignored.

"What if people were convinced of something that wasn't true." reminds me how people are convinced that there were explosives in the Twin Towers on 9/11

I’m one of them, and I know the police will be after me for saying that. But for the record we feel the same about everyone who believes the official story despite massive evidence against it.

That life is a holographic projection of consciousness and we have "God"-given abilities to collectively manipulate the Unified Field?

Yeah we got to start somewhere. Eventually, we will simply agree on "truths" (configurations/paradigms of reality) That feel the best and offer the most growth + passionate experiences.

Oh hey, you've invented Reddit.

Reddit used to be much better before bots and shills took over. Also, it used to have a generally more informed userbase but now it's basically no different than facebook.

was like 70% programmers, scifi and stem nerds at one point. lol

I miss the good ol’ stem days. Remixes all day everyday.

Back when /r/all was basically just /r/interestingasfuck

I got here right as the safe was happening and unidan was still a messiah. Shit was wild. I had to actively try to make politics show up on my feed. Now its all politics and 9 second gifs.

Fuck man I remember thinking reddit was a little past its glory days then, how far we've come since then :(

It's kind of better than the alternatives though like voat, since that place is one giant echo-chamber now.

We all knew that would happen when the exodus started. I even agree with a bunch of shit said there. But its screaming for some new voices to shake shit up for sure.

Our meme and giffing skills were a lot worse back then though.

My experience is that many subs are just echo chambers where any comment that diverges from the hive mind opinion has gotten me banned. 1,000 uninformed morons all agreeing that something is so does not actually make it so.

...he says with a post history that is 80% T_D, the most extreme echo chamber on the internet full of morons repeating obvious falsehoods.

OK, TD is what it is, and what it is is an alternative to the equally one sided views of r/news, r/worldnews, r/politics and redacted. Here's how forming a well rounded view of issues works - you go to all the different one sided forums and then make up your own mind. I'd put more of the views expressed on TD against those of r/news any day of the week, in terms of moron level, as r/news is hysterically ill informed and very willfully so - most of the subs on reddit that purport to discuss any important issues are insistent that opposing views are to be shut down or the user banned. What you claim are 'obvious falsehoods' are merely views you do not agree with and can not refute on any intellectually honest basis, so you mock and deride instead. That's not productive to anything other than you reassuring yourself that you're smart despite refusing to consider anything that you disagree with.

What you claim are 'obvious falsehoods' are merely views you do not agree with and can not refute on any intellectually honest basis, so you mock and deride instead. That's not productive to anything other than you reassuring yourself that you're smart despite refusing to consider anything that you disagree with.

That is a perfect description of T_D.

Nonsense. People in that sub argue all the time. Now go to r/news and try disagreeing with the DNC party line. You'll get banned and brigaded immediately.

You get downvoted for saying stupid things on /r/news. You can still go around saying stupid things all you want. You get instantly banned from T_D for not having your tongue wedged entirely inside Trumps asshole 24/7. Fanatical Trump supporters who imply maybe one particular thing he did wasn't the best idea get banned. Nowhere else does anything like that.

No, 'stupid' on r/news is anything that does not comply with the hive mind / DNC talking points. It is retarded and childish to presume that anyone who disagrees with your perspective must be stupid - but, that seems to be all the libs these days know how to do - silence any opposing views with shrieking and name calling. I can rattle off at least half a dozen reddit subs that will ban or shadow ban any comment at odds with the DNC party line, so spare me that nonsense that it's only TD that does that.

It is totally valid to assume that someone who regularly posts on TD has nothing to say that isnt absolutely fucking retarded. And you have done a great job of proving that maxim correct.

You do realize that the "bots and shills" narrative is what is being used to censor the internet. You are playing into it.

There are genuine bots and shills on reddit. That's indisputable. Reddit admins allow them or look the other way. When admins have censored, it has never been reasoned as a way to combat bots and shills, but always as a way to prevent hate speech or content they deem unacceptable.

The amount of space that gets taken up by actual bots and shills is several orders of magnitude less than by people whining about bots and shills.

And I'm not talking about the "reddit administrators," I'm talking about, you know, the actual legislative body of the country.

If you see a bad comment, downvote, if you see a good one, upvote.

And when a bot sees a bad comment, it mass downvotes it so it won't be seen by real people.

Wikipedia! Brilliant!

wikipedia is gamed as hell. mods bigfoot any attempt to balance the narrative on matters controversial.

Reddit could do lots to fight bots, but does the opposite for the most part: less and less transparency.

KYC based registration would make things way harder to Spam

You're describing Reddit and all social media.

Are the masses really asses?

This is what is happening now.

truth is more of a journey than a destination, more of a method or a process than a single fact

if the tech were designed with that process in mind, i believe it is a solveable problem.

if voting is technologically solveable for political elections, it is solveable for online forums and journalism.

\ you dropped this.

Good bot

Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99999% sure that TomBombadil17 is not a bot.

^{I am a Neural Network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot <username> | Optout | Original GitHub}

Lol the actual bot fought my case for me haha. ;)

this dude is rad

That is so naive.

The "Elon Musk" character is a complete fraud. None of his missions have been to what we call space, and his character is named after a character in the 1952 Werner von Braun book The Mars Project.

You can tell it's fake because it looks so fake.

Lol!!

Getting closer with Knife Media for example.

The sad state of our current society is that truth and credibility are just which narrative is most popular.

Elon Musk might not even be serious, he might be making a point through parody.

I don't knok, you can be crazy smart and still falll in conspiracies.

He truly believes that the media is targeting Tesla because they don't advertise.

Yes news media have a lot of problems, and clicks based news are a big problem, but in reality Tesla target is the same reason why a minor problem with an apple broduct makes the news while the same on a Lenovo wouldn't see the light of day.

One is popular and the other is not.

Don't forget socialist, SJW, communist, libtard, etc.

The unfortunate truth of the matter though is that this has always been the case throughout most of the history of society.

Advertisements for gas never made any sense to me, I guess it makes more now.

Like, who hasn’t heard of gasoline? And how many people give a shit about the brand of gasoline they put in their tank?

Same goes for Lockheed Martin advertisements. "Honey, I think I am going to get that new jet today."

I dont use gas with ethanol. Thats my only specification.

Goddamn summer prices are killing me.

It will just degenerate into partisans on both sides trying to upvote whatever stories fit their own narrative.

That sounds familiar.

I think if the credibility score is only attached to the journalist, this could become much less partisan. The vast majority of journalists lean to the left, sure, but that doesn't mean the vast majority of them first and foremost seek the truth. The vast majority of journalists actually do have integrity and pride themselves on reliably reporting facts in an honest matter, even though they are biased (as all of us are).

Agreed. Coming from a minor journalist myself, I could actually see something like this working if the score pertains only towards the journalist. Especially in the cases of journalists reporting something and the editors and so forth manipulating it, as I have dealt with in the past. Some editors don't give a shit that some of us risk being arrested to get the truth out to the rest of the world.

And bad reviews will simply justify their position in their own eyes, turning them into victims. They love that shit.

well if everyone is like you :)

fortunately they aren't

But without bots. That's important bit. You could actually get a sense of the zeitgeist.

As long as it's not bots...isn't that the point?

Still it could provide a better and faster data gathering tool for those willing to debate honestly. More transparency = mo better

We will never find truth untill we find it inside ourselves.

Humanity wont grow untill the majority of us are conscious. We need spirital truths not political truths.

At least this is some good entertainment.

Watching the likes of WAPO write smear articles because they are butthurt is good reading.

Yep this is likely. Truth is truth and not a matter of a vote.

What happened to this sub? Why is this here?

Elon happened

Eh, it's better than chem-trails or flat-earth, IMO

No it’s not. Those at least are actual conspiracies. This is just a news piece about mainstream media

mainstream media is not a conspiracy?

ok.

Who watches the watchers?

post stories that are 100% fact checked under random names and gradually reduce the quality of peoples votes if they are consistently wrong. this is ofc assuming the system isnt corrupt to begin with and who the fuck even knows anymore. people in power are exploiting technology so excessively that they can get away with absurd amounts of selfishness which lead to this global fiasco of corruption. ugh

This is part of the problem - you can't often "100% fact check" a given story.

For instance, "Does Candidate Johnson's tax plan help America"?

You'll find economists who will swear and source both Yes and No answers, and no one but another economist will have a truly informed opinion.

I guess you could count up the experts and average it, but ... Who is an expert?

then the problem is with the question for being too vague. or give layered answers. like yes then why and give a couple more options that are related to the article. then you can filter out the stupid responses, like all the fuck obama stuff

Who experts the experts?

Coast guard?

So the end result would be going from a handful of media corporations to just one?

He is a total media whore.

Claims the man who has benefited from media hype.

Bought and paid for by Soros

I just stubled across that last night myself, was hoping someone would mention it:

In September 2016 Soros Fund Management advised a private investment fund tied to Quantum Strategic Partners, which injected the bulk of $305 million into SolarCity, producer of solar panels. The flow of cash allowed Elon Musk, chairman of Tesla Motors and SolarCity, to purchase SolarCity and merge it with Tesla.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soros_Fund_Management#2012_to_2016

IF he can create a botproof website, DO IT.

It's Elon, he'll find a way

Absolutely fucking genius

Says the guy running the SpaceX con

You mean he wants to make a site like reddit before it was compromised. I’m down

Dan Carlin proposed a similar idea on his Common Sense podcast where you'd be able to see the record of how many times pundits' expert predictions came true. Trying a solution in this case would be better than just being a standby critic.

This would be a huge stepforward for in the era of FB news and journalist stating fake news just to get headlines. I think we could all appreciate a website like that

Here we go sucking his dick again. Everything he says is the word of god. Do some fact checking and research why this can be very very easily abused.

you dont really need some research to realize the potential danger behind that idea

As long it aint a religious conservative christian allright bullshit, let's go

That's rich coming from the technocrat poster boy who pretends he sent a Tesla into space.

Pretend?

Pravda, eh? A Russian name for a communist newspaper. Does anyone else see the irony in this? Musk must be trolling.

Go to TheKnifeMedia.com they report on the facts and rate the integrity levels of how the story was reported on by MSM. I've found it to be quite helpful.

r/enoughmuskspam

he wants to call it fucking Pravda????

I thought this sounded promising but obvious troll is honestly too obvious.

People need to learn how to figure things out for themselves. People can't just sit around expecting some sort of magical truth machine to appear and always give them 100% unfiltered truth. That mentality just allows propaganda to be even more effective than it already has been. This ridiculous demand for fact checkers just shows how lazy the average person is. They won't spend 5 minutes learning their own local politics, let alone geopolitics. Unless he somehow manages to make it "bot-proof" (good luck with that, pal), it's not a real solution.

Strong, more influential fact checkers...be careful what you wish for.

That's the unfortunate reality of the Silicon Valley ideology mixture of technocracy and cultural libertarianism. This unshakeable belief that they can fix society's ills with what technology can provide and will provide.

http://projectcensored.org/podcast/chase-palmieri-tribeworthy-com-dave-lindorff-reports-russiagate/

So, no more Snopes?! Bwhahaha.

Why call it Pravda? What am I missing?

Humour

New master same shit.

WOOOO

First thing I’d want checked is his gun-to-his-head car in space Video

For the most part, those on the right are for this - they yearn for a platform not manipulated by left leaning mods or obvious conservative whack jobs like fox or infowars. The left fears this because they think their opinion is the only right opinion and everything else is Nazi.

Where's the conspiracy?

I just wanna fuck his bitch

Buy-N-Large media.

It wouldn’t be difficult for billionaire media moguls to artificially inflate positive review numbers, just make shit loads of accounts. This website will actually make it easier for corporations to manipulate people.

Reddit news hurler bot yes

The TYT network might be interested in taking him up on this.

This subreddit is dumb as shit lately.

Leon Skum

This is a horrible idea

Some of you (Most) lack vision.

can't have vision when you're paid to poke out eyeballs

It would just be votebotted by pro-corporate interests in order to create the illusion that their agenda (their hit pieces, their smear campaigns against people who oppose their policies, etc.) are "true" while data points that contradict that agenda would be labeled as "false."

This would do more harm than good.

This would have absolutely no function except as a tool for propagandists, and it worries me that Elon Musk doesn't get that.

Isn't this how Peter Wiggin fucks us all?

Yes let’s have a billionaire epic bacon guy dictating our fucking news

bacon?

We should always be skeptical of people who hold tons of power. I don't trust a billionaire to be in charge of pravda or 'truth'

So he wants to create Reddit.

When a conspiracy forum is fawning over a billionaire that takes advantage of factory workers and wants to start some a shill website like verrit we might as well pack it up and go home.

I'll take the Rainbow Sprinkler Conspiracy over siding with our techno overlords lol

Who's fawning over him? Most comments I've seen are fairly skeptical of the idea

I see the Musk-sniffers in here. Also the rampant upvotes but that may be just for exposure..

Theres 2 ways on how this ends up... that Elon Musk brings awareness to otherwise swept-under-the-rug /inconvenient facts, therefore providing a beacon of info as someone like Wikileaks or Free Thought Project does... Orrr we have the new generational cousin of Facebook Brigtbart and Infowars, meaner than his elders... with Peter Theil having some lose connection to it all!! Oh boyy

God this would be a fucking great idea.

Great, so he wants a news organization with all the decorum and accuracy of a YouTube comments section

Yes, but people will upvote and support it because it has "Elon Musk" in the title.

It doesn't matter how incredibly stupid the idea is. If daddy Elon said it then reddit must blindly follow it.

This product already exists: it’s called Tribeworthy & is like Yelp or Rotten Tomatoes for news.

https://www.tribeworthy.com

Well, that's him dead then.

The concept of the public rating the credibility of things... abhorrent

Anderson Cooper would be out of a job.

Problem with this is that truth is not by committee.

Something isn't not biased or truth based by how people perceives it, but if it's based in facts.

For that reason it can't be decided by the majority of people but has to be vetted by informed and professionals.

I think he wants a tool that will encourage the media to be honest though. Because nothing we currently have going on is working.

Sure, even only if he is able to actually write a technology that is actually bot proof and he is willing to open that and give it to facebook/twitter/etc... that would be awesome.

The problem right now is that the attack on the Media in general is way too exaggerated.

Sure news media has a ton of problems but we should stop blaming the mainstream media for everything.

Fake news started as fake facebook news, ad there should have stopped. Trump moved the post to the media and after two years everyone start to actually believe him.

Mainstream media has problems, there is not denying it. And sure they need solution because the current model is not sustainable, but this attack doesn't help anyone other than people that actually fabricate fake news (real actual fake news not embellished, clickbait or poorly sourced).

We still need a free open and indipendent media, and Musk crying because they are talking everytime Tesla has a little problem doesn't help. Sure it's not fair, but it's a consequence of Tesla own success, doesn't have anything to do with his conspiracy theory about the lack of advertisement.

"Fake news" actually started as a talking point in a meeting on the weekend after Hillary lost the election. And then Trump turned that around to attack the mainstream news. Like most disingenuous attacks from the Hillary camp, it didn't work out the way they intended.

And Elon's attack does show the hypocrisy of the media. If he was advertising they wouldn't be attacking as they wouldn't want to lose a big advertiser. So at the end of the day, the media serves, not the people they provide news to, but the people who pay them to advertise. Viewers and readers aren't the buyers, and they know that.

If he was advertising they wouldn't be attacking as they wouldn't want to lose a big advertiser.

That's just not true, Apple is a big advertiser and they do the same thing they do to Tesla.

Every little problem with an apple product become big news while the same o similar problem with a smaller company isn't as hyped up. Sure, I don't deny that it's wrong and it does hurt his company, but it's a product of his own success not a conspiracy because he doesn't advertise.

I would love to verify this, but I don't know where to start. What outlets does Apple pour advertising money into? And then let's look at that outlets negative coverage of Apple.

It goes both ways. What you have as proof that the coverage of Tesla accidents is because of his lack of advertisement ?

Apple stopped disclosing it's advertising expenses after a record 1.8 billions in 2015.

And still there were things like Bendgate and that Antennagate, all relatively small problems overblown for news because people were interested.

Even Samsung with it's 10 billions $ in advertisement wasn't immune to the Galaxy Note 7 that was painted in the media as "a bomb" so much that it was forbidden on planes.

And like with Tesla, they are not making stuff up, but they are overblowing smaller problems to make clicks. It's a problem sure, it's fake not really but it's not true either and it should stop.

But let's keep to the facts, that advertisement budgets don't seem to stop the sensationalism

The Tesla point is impossible to prove. We could look at Apple though if we knew where they were spending money and see if that brings favorable coverage.

You could definitely check where someone spend money and check their average reports "favorability" against other media were they don't directly advertise.

While it might be very interesting to check for bias in advertisement based media one thing doesn't make the other one true. Removing actual disclosed promoted content.

But, even if this report finds that yes they have a bias with more favorable coverage to companies that advertise. This doesn't mean they intentionally write unfavorable coverage to companies that don't.

Well done. I'll have to read it later though.

I'm going to be very honest with you, I didn't read it extensively.

I just thought that there might be some papers about it already. Did a quick search, open a couple of them randomly and quickly scanned to the conclusion. Two of them had the conclusion that "some bias might be present but not enough to be considered significant" and one said "we didn't found any bias".

Google noticed that I was looking up stuff about Tesla a while back and ever since then I’ve gotten nothing but negatively biased articles about Tesla about to go bankrupt on the top of my feed. I’ve seen maybe one positive article. It’s quite strange.

The company makes investors nervous - it's something like 90 days away from insolvency at any given point, if something goes wrong.

Tesla and mostly Musk almost always have negative articles at any given time except during some kind of product launch or big event like SpaceX stuff. Yeah sure Tesla has been kinda doing shit lately with all the delays but everytime Musk breathes you'll get an article about how Tesla is about to fall apart.

upvotes Know how I know it's not going to be neutral?

If you're on this sub, and you don't shit on corporate media, you're on the wrong sub. I don't know how to make it any more clear than that.

bot proof as in show your social security, id, etc. Plus the masses opinion is not always the factual reality

Was thinking about this the other day in relation to wiki... General consensus vs. objective reality. Just because we agree on something doesn't necessarily make it fact.

The problem is that in the current political system the government (and countless coalitions of special interest) posses the power to influence other peoples lives, and they strive to implement one single policy which applies to all citizens - conflicts and lies are inevitable in this environment.

Ideally you shouldn't have to give a fuck if your neighbor is a democrat, a republican or a primitivist, because their choices would apply to their lives only. That's possible if the society is organized around voluntary institutions and respecting of property rights only - you can have your single-payer healthcare as long as it applies only to those who voluntarily join the program.

Funny, Pravda means Justice in my language

botproof

Seems he would know better than most that botproof is probably impossible.

Guys it's an joke. Look up "Pravda."

Elon Musk will become a super villain. Like the bad guy Iron Man. I'm calling it.

I'm rooting for him. This would be a disaster for the left

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/8lbtiy/summary_of_tslas_situation

Good read if you're curious about why Musk is mad at the media for negative coverage.

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Elon is our hero

Musk's idea will fail in spectacular glory for the obvious reason that governments and people, in general, prefer news and facts that are biased towards their own line of thinking than the truth.

I don't trust anything this guy does ever. Someone needs to get his money and create many more Tesla types. He could turn out to be more of an Edison.

What situation/s or lies do you think persuaded Elon to be so opinionated on this? Most people are oblivious how one sided and corrupt our MSM is.

Man I had this same idea except I wanted to start with politicians from federal to the local level, since no one really cares about the local guys, and circle back to journalists. Wanted to start a 501(c)3 to pay students in community service hours, targeting political science students, and other related majors.

Stop worshipping billionaires that don't give a shit about you. When will you guys learn your lesson? Elon Musk treats his workers like shit and is notoriously anti-union.

He's probably tired having to correct twitter news tweets wrongly claiming he's done something.

You mean bots surely wont take over that site.. Elon, you are stupid.

Lol asking the public to guage the truth of an article is a horrible disaster waiting to happen. Most people don’t care about the truth, they care about seeing their beliefs validated, whether they are factual or not. THAT’S why Trump was elected. That’s why he can screen fake news whenever caught in a lie, and get a pass from his base.

So he wants to create a thing where popular opinion becomes truth.

Doesn't Reddit already exist?

Why should I trust someone who lives off government subsidies?

If he doesn't like negative news about Tesla, he should probably work on delivering more of his cars.

This is literally the worst place to post something like this. Ironically you'd need somewhere unbiased to get a proper opinion because everyone here is either strongly on one side or the other.

But he slams liquid hydrogen and calls it unfeasible? Now who's the loony?

I am not a fan of Tesla cars but I think it is not a bad idea.

I like this idea. Rate them, let me judge the high rated vs low rated myself. Secure it though with perhaps new tech (blockchain?) To ensure one immutable vote per individual- no bots.

Why would he call it Pravda? That name reeks of communism.

And he wants to name it after the state-paper of the Russian Communists.

Go fuck yourself, Musk.

I like paypal.

How the fuck are the regular people supposed to know the truth of a news article? Isn’t that the whole reason they are reading news in the first place? This seems like it could make fake news worse.

This is just a dumb idea. And not at all original. Possibly the most common dumb idea to solve this problem.

His idea will never work.

There is no method to keep fake votes out of it.

Worse, someone in the company will end up putting Ads into the mix and then those will be monetarily tied to higher approval ratings which means that those companies will require their employees or paid voters to vote yes.

Good faith arguments are routinely downvoted here out of dissent, don’t see why it’d be any different elsewhere. Would like to see change though.

Proceed with caution....

"bot proof" Do not give them ideas. There are ways around it.

Why is this a "conspiracy" and not simply "another article for r/news?"

The problem I see with this is this: We are in a world where people dont read news to be informed about the world around them. They read the news to confirm their opinions of the world around them. No ome checks facts, no one cross-references multiple articles on the same subject....

It will be nothing but a news based social media site, where news people agree with will get upvoted, and news people disagree with get downvoted. Assuming there will be ways to sort the news by category, we will see interesting trends based on what stories gain popularity, but thats it. It would be a popularity contest and nothing more. A massive tug of war between the two seperate halves of america

We used to have echos for this, but Google banned it.

Hi, Elon. We're Reddit. I don't think we've met, because this site already does exactly what you are saying. Let's tell you how this plays out:

1. Create site - no one comes
2. Site needs money - so to get people to come the founders pose as different people arguing
3. What is truth? They ask themselves? Their own SJW liberal politics, so that is what they push for.
4. People show up
5. Ads show up
6. Government shows up
7. PR firms show up and start campaigning for politicians, movies, and hollywood actors to improve their reputations
8. People upvote scary skelly and corgi dogs, and they downvote anything they don't want to hear about how there is no wage gap between men and women.

BTW, they also upvote anything with your name in it, Elon Musk. Did I write Elon Musk yet? I think I may have forgotten to write Elon Musk.

Elon Musk shits on corporate media

shill journalists proceed to have a meltdown on twitter calling Elon alt right, etc proving Elon right that mainstream media is cancer

Look what happened to reddit: RIP Aaron Swartz, no more canary, the_donald, Ellen Pao, massive shadow bans, pizzagate, the Boston marathon witch hunt, etc...

But how are conservatives going to claim all of the negative coverage on them is fake news if this actually comes out?

I wonder if these innovators with groundbreaking tech think before they go public about changing the world by changing the current system unwillingly against those who control it at this time.

There is a reason we are still on the hydro-carbon model, and there's also a reason why central banks run everything still. I don't think they will just let Elon take away their society manipulating machines from them. This is risky to openly attempt imo.

So like Rotten Tomatoes Audience Reviews?

Great write up thanks. I was wondering what the full story was.

You should post this on TD. If you don’t you mind if I do?

MSNBC is shitting.

"bot proof". ok.

Holy potatoes I instantly love this guy!

How will he discern real people from tens of thousands of Russian bots upvoting garbage stories?

Not a big Elon fan, but corporate media deserves to be shit on a thousand times over for their negligence and false narratives that have gotten us to where we are today with the military industrial complex and foreign and domestic policy.

Why now, today, when anyone can record history with a camera app and ask questions. We don't need the fake mainstream news or the world according to Elon Musk.

I don't trust anyone except the citizen journalist who has proven themselves worthy of trust.

Problem is journos are under constant pressure to get max clicks & earn advertising dollars or get fired. Tricky situation, as Tesla doesn’t advertise, but fossil fuel companies & gas/diesel car companies are among world’s biggest advertisers.

Don't forget the fossil fuel companies have deep pockets and contribute to many political campaigns in order to push whatever agenda they want. If politicians take money from campanies... they should be forced to wear the companies logo somewhere on their clothes for everyday they show up to work. Like Nascar meets the scarlet letter but at least give the public a chance to see where they get their $$$ from to get re/elected

Does Politifact not do this already?

Musknet

Can't hurt we are already subjected to fake news every day.

Doesn't matter. People think what they see on Fox, MSNBC, and CNN or read on Breitbart and HuffPost is true. On the whole society thinks the truth is anything that reinforces their belief.

ITT: People sharing their mental prison publicly, not understanding that 'rank' could be determined in an as-yet-unknown method that may solve for partisanship and botnets.

How about a Jesuit proof site??? Fuck bots

• Yes, a world filled with people whose world views are built by religion, CIA-infested media, government-controlled schools and other institutions of mainstream science & academia.
  I'm sure they'll be great at identifying the truth.

• This will further acclimate people to the concept of logging into websites using a national ID number, like they do in S. Korea.

• The CIA and other government spooks have the ability to create new identities and use existing identities, so they can make sure the vote goes the way they want it to.

For as smart as this man he has no clue how human beings work

Thanks, Grimes

If you're not an idiot you can just search the author to look at their credentials and history is you really want to get down to it. This is literally one of the first things they teach you in university.

It would be nice to have all that information in one place, rather than having to search for it piece by piece.

Oh boy! I can't wait for Yelp for journalists. I guess not every idea can be PayPal or Tesla..

BOOM.

My biggest question from this - What kind of an idiot says "I hope that works out for you dude" to Elon Fucking Musk?!? Like he doesn't have an established history of pretty much everything that he wants going better than expected for him.

His part about how they sugarcoat the lie, just enough, is so spot on. The amount of things that are left out of reporting makes me sick. They all do it to whichever side the channel wants it to go. This is why the country is so divided right now. Neither side of the MSM tells the entire truth. It drives me crazy

After all the click-bait articles about Tesla’s imminent demise, and a New York Times reporter driving a Tesla around in circles in order to write a story about battery life, I'm hardly surprised Musk would have issues with media credibility.

Mr. Musk is catching up to what I was saying ca. 2002.

There is room on the internet for anonymity and whistleblowing, but there also needs to be a central place where credibility can exist and where things you say cannot be taken back or censored by a government or corporation.

I believe it should be an independent non-profit organization operated by the most credible people in all of society.

Everyone should be able to challenge everyone to a debate and there should be many forms of debates.

The idea was originally presented via the ship board comm system in the novel Songs of Distant Earth by Arthur C. Clark.

Elon is stating the obvious here and getting max amplified, my life proves however then what happens to poor people with good ideas, they are completely ignored for 20 years then a rich person says the same thing and everyone loses their shit.

I believe Aaron Schwartz was saying the same things ten years ago as well.

I hate plutacracy, what a stupid form of government, it may be the end of the human race. And many other races on many planets.

'well, then they developed nuclear weapons, became a global plutacracy, then shortly thereafter all life was exterminated and no one knows exactly how besides, well, plutacracy....' - galactic history

Well he should have spent more money on advertising and media companies if he wanted a different truth.

"Elitist Billionaire Pissed that Media is Reporting on the Shitty Conditions Imposed on his Employees"

Dude is trying to paint journalists as pampered elites (journalists have an average salary of about $45,000/ year, btw) trying to smear him at the same time he threatened his employees stock options if they unionized.

I'am not entirely convinced of Elon's separation from the control elite. I mean he showed up at the MET Gala. Anyone showing up to that bread circuses is under their thumb.

Suuurrreeee

Genius

Papa Muskrat coming through

The company behind electric cars, solar panels, space travel, and underground boring. All dated technology repackaged as new.

Are we sure we want him in charge of truth?

Cuz yelp is so accurate...how about just reinforce journalistic integrity and shit?

GNN.tv

Than why does he pay for upvotes on Reddit?

Really, people? Pravda? Musk is making a joke (or trolling).

elon is a fraud

Elon is part of the cabal, obviously. Don't take this too seriously.

I was thinking of this idea a while ago and how to incorporate AI and blockchain because the problem with these kinds of things is that they're easily abused, so I ditched the idea.

LOL @ "botproof"

Public voting to decide what is true? Sounds like a really bloody bad idea to me!

Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true, large groups can ,and have, been wrong.

Even more, once enough people vote for the "truth" it is all that will show, so everyone else must go along as they will never see the other news.

And yes, I know this is basically how reddit works.

Doubt it. I'm sure they get kickbacks for turning a blind eye.

The 2016 election was a shit show. Lol Reddit still hasnt caught on that djt won and Hillary lost.

I remember when you used to be able to dissent on this site without getting shat on.

I don't knok, you can be crazy smart and still falll in conspiracies.

He truly believes that the media is targeting Tesla because they don't advertise.

Yes news media have a lot of problems, and clicks based news are a big problem, but in reality Tesla target is the same reason why a minor problem with an apple broduct makes the news while the same on a Lenovo wouldn't see the light of day.

One is popular and the other is not.

Reddit absolutely stops bots. I bet they ban tens of thousands a day, or prevent them from creating an account in the first place. If they didn't, the site would be completely filled with obvious spam, rather than reposts and clever attempts at making things go viral.

There are plenty of bots that make it through the filters, but this place would be literally unusable if they weren't stopping the majority.

Don't forget socialist, SJW, communist, libtard, etc.

The unfortunate truth of the matter though is that this has always been the case throughout most of the history of society.

The only thing I remember Microsoft doing was bundling Internet Explorer with Windows and Netscape got mad about it.

Fixing our infrastructure is something liberals and conservatives agree on. How we pay for it is something we probably disagree on.

I see the Musk-sniffers in here. Also the rampant upvotes but that may be just for exposure..

The Tesla point is impossible to prove. We could look at Apple though if we knew where they were spending money and see if that brings favorable coverage.

You have directed me to study an ethnocentrist, a nazi, a fascist, and an avowed white supremacist in a conversation about racism. How do you reasonably expect me to respond?

I'm guessing you're reading comprehension is low and propensity to be ruled by emotions is high.

Sounds like you are one of the racists that we are going to have to fight. :)