Hadith, Arabic Ḥadīth (“News” or “Story”), also spelled Hadīt, record of the traditions or sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, revered and received as a major source of religious law and moral guidance, second only to the authority of the Qurʾān, the holy book of Islam.

Your claim that hadith is not Islamic text is laughable.

Muhammad was a murderous warlord rapist, so for him to have a child bride is not inconceivable.

Child marriage was quite common not only in the middle east but all over the world at this time.

Islamic preachers use the Islamic texts to justify pedophilia to this day https://youtu.be/2iIxRoU-lSg

And in countries like Afghanistan and Yemen it is still happening today.

The irony is you mention Tommy Robinson, and although I find him to be a moron and don't really pay attention to him, the fact is he was 'reporting'/protesting/shit stirring in regards to a Muslim child rape gang.

Although I personally don't find his arrest that objectionable if he committed contempt of court by compromising the integrity of a trial like they say he did.

i'll bite. Here's the thing, even if it was true and he wan't an actual pedo (which I believe he was 100% a pedo, and Bacha Bazi is part of Muslim pedophilia culture):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

Even if she was an adult, mohammed the warlord still heard voices in his head and was not sure of their origins. So we have a schizophrenic creating a whole cult around his schizophrenic voices, borrowed the rest from the Jews and Christians, made sure there was lots of submission so no questions the cult, and then boom(pun intended) power and his cult solidified in history

Even if?

yeah, even if you were right

? You discredit my argument

I didnt discredit it, I hypothetically'd it

and go on to spout fiction without source?

I gave you the bacha bazi link as a source. Here's the other one

Muhammad's first revelation was an event described in Islam as taking place in 610 AD, during ... "when I was midway on the mountain, I heard a voice from heaven saying "O Muhammad! you are the apostle of Allah and I am Gabriel."

The cave he meditated in, may have been giving off a variety of different gasses giving him hallucinations as well which is another theory to his schizophrenia

The moral degeneration of his fellow people, and his own quest for a true religion further lent fuel to this, with the result that he now began to withdraw periodically to a cave named Mount Hira, three miles north of Mecca, for contemplation and reflection.[3] Islamic tradition holds that Muhammad during this period began to have dreams replete with spiritual significance which were fulfilled according to their true import; and this was the commencement of his divine revelation.[1][page needed][4][page needed] This created inclination in him to engage himself in solitary worshipping

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_first_revelation

The gases theory:

https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/19/science/for-delphic-oracle-fumes-and-visions.html

Enjoy.

What is the point of your sources?

you asked for sources to prove my point, so I did

O am discussing the time line of Islam and the age if Aisha in which the far right use as a tool against Islam.

Post a source that you are right, back it up.

Regardless, Islam is brainwashing, it is an unnecessary backwards 3rd world religion. Its 2018, not 1018 and we no longer require women to dress as ninjas

You have said random shit .. for what reason?

What random shit, that the warlord was either high on ethylene or a schizophrenic? That's hardly random because even if mohammed was not a pedo and aisha was not 8, them he was still either high or a schizophrenic

What exactly do you disagree with in the time line i put forward?

Yes

The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham, when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

Regardless of your bias, please challenge my post and not me. It's embarrassing

I already did with a source. I'm still waiting for your sources

Your argument is a single wiki post? So you are going to ignore what I posted about her sister and stick to what you know?

post a source. You are saying some shit about her sister, but you are not providing any sources, so as far as I can tell, you are making up some fantasy or fabrication unless you post a source.

This is what this sub does, we post sources, and if you dont post one, then its impossible to take your made up numbers and ideas seriously

God dayum. Good luck. Please go and look it up, I think you will be surprised. Also those sources on wiki? Disputed.

Post sources dude.

If they were disputed then wikipedia would reflect that. I'm guessing if you do post anything, it will be some muslim website trying really hard to twist it so that the warlord is no longer a pedo

Could it be that the angels or whatever there were might just have been playing both sides? See it all the time today and he even admits that "Allah" is the greatest deceiver of them all. Hmmmm....

exactly. allah = demiurge, the trickster, spinster, false god

That's just racist and entirely false.

wtf? what is racist? Are you insane dude? Who the hell said anything racist anywhere in the sub?

Are seriously trying to defend a pedophile? Think about that

Because you are falsely blaming shit on a prophet of a religion while not doing any real research.

i studied the pedo cult for 5 years, read the whole Koran 3 times, including various texts from Sunni and Shia Scholarly breakdowns, along with Sufism.

I have also posted various links/sources for you to check out, and you are calling me a racist for calling out a pedophile, which means you already lost the debate

Maybe wrong on racist. However someone on this sub that doesn't actively try and verify content is nothing but a moron. Well done

LMFAO....okay guy. Go read all the links I gave you, and post sources to back your fantasies, and then maybe in the future we can discuss some more about the pedo cult

You read the Quran 5x? And never realised the text i have asked you to address multiple times?

yup, post a source to back your claim, or else its just made up. All the major scholars agree Aisha was 8-10

Wheres my timeline gone wrong?

You haven't posted any sources

(Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234)

Okay, m gonna provide the sources man but of you don't mind it's 5am here and I really need to sleep.

its all good. do it tomorrow. Im about to crash too

ditto mate, much love

not repeated absolute bollocks

Please, let me know what I said that is bollocks?

You ask about research...

But you say that hadith are not Islamic texts.

I'm sure I could find dozens of Islamic scholars and researchers who disagree.

And then you say...

Instead of believing that Islam is notoriously anti western or anti women I want people to research

And I'm sure I could find dozens of examples from Islamic texts, including the Qurʾān, that advocate for the killing and abuse of infidels and non believers, and that talk about the horrible treatment of women.

But what's the point, you already know all this because of all the research you have done,right?

Or perhaps your position is more rooted in political correctness than logic or reality.

And I'd ask you not to be so dismissive of the plight of children, women, apostates, homosexuals and other victims of barbaric Islamic societies and sharia law.

Are you not going to address anything I said in my last post?

Again you talk about all the research you have done.

Then you say...

Instead of believing that Islam is notoriously anti western or anti women I want people to researclh

Something doesnt add up.

He/she isn't here for what he/she claims. I would stop bothering. If they wanted real research rhey have access to Google and I presume libraries.

I find it amusing for people to have to further articulate nonsense.

Pick apart his argument, instead of spewing someone else's bullshit.

He has a point regarding the dates. Something doesn't add up.

Uumm, that's what I did.

The only part of what I said that was 'someone else's bullshit' was a quote from an encyclopaedia.

His point about dates only doesn't add up if you cherry pick which scriptures you accept information from, because they show Muhammad in a better light.

An attack on child rapists?

Yes

Both views consist of cherrypicking. Clearly the Hadith is full of contradictions. Its not like you can take one set of sources over the other based on nothing other than "scholars - who happen to be pedophiles - say so; coincidence amiright". Tell me, how long after Muhammad's death was the Aisha hadith written w.r.t her being 6? 100 years? 200 years?

No, you are right.

Muhammad was definitely not a murderous pedophile rapist warlord.

He was an upstanding citizen.

Nobody said that. However, your response suggests that you are overly reactive and don't actually do any research.

Oh, cursing and ad hominems! This is getting serious now.

So if I write a book about world war 1, it's by default wrong because that was 100 years ago?

Logic!

You can't compare the Hadith to a book on WW1.

WW1 has a fuckton of source material. The Hadith have... welll.... yeah..... Nothing. Didn't some of the Hadith claim that Muhammad split the moon and rode a pegasus? Lol.

Except the hadith regarding is considered sahih, it wasn't just invented by some guy in Persia.

Grown men fuck 9 year olds in the middle east now, why is it so inconceivable it happened back then?

So just to clarify, the Islamic texts that state she is a child are vauge and open to interpretation, but the recording of dates is unquestionable historical fact?

Got it.

WW1 has a fuckton of source material.

As does aisha being a child.

Simple as that.

Dont forget "Tea Boys" in Afghanistan

Drop the people involved or the religion and simply allow reporting of public trials. Let the public decide.

Take Islam and Tommy out of the equation. Why cant a trial be public record or reported on? Especially one that involves nearly 30 defendants. I believe thats what got people talking recently. A media blackout on a trial not supporting Tommy or hating on Islam. Why are some religion's protected and some are not. Christian pedophile case top billing. Islam equals misunderstood. Jewish equals victim. People are getting tired of these protections being placed on certain groups. Everyone get protection or its just wrong.

I dont quite understand why you want to be proven wrong when you were asking for people's opinion on a topic. My belief is the majority of people in the Western Nations practice bastardized religion. Life is to good in the west to follow the holy books. Christians, Muslims, Jews. If we practiced the holy books to the letter the world would look much diffrent. So when you see people following their religion from other areas it seems crazy. Also a bigger problem is free speech in people's mind and a trial that isnt allowed to be talked about. Question for you, why should the trial not be public? I dont care about Tommy or his political view or history. The reason why Im interested is because Im not a fan of keeping trials secret. Courts are public paid for with tax revenue there for the trials inside them should be public record. Does the public not have a right to know about what goes on in their city/town. Yes you should respect the law of the land you live in. Thats seems to be another problem all together though.

Your not answering why the case shouldn't be public info. The drug dealers would be, wouldnt it? If your a follower of religion then there is a pretty good chance you've been lied to. Thats why most religions do their form of confirmation early in life. If they did it later in life the numbers might drop off after people recieve 12 years of education. Im not a hater of religion as many on Reddit are. I think going to church, temple, mosques is more or less just a way to network. Thier are scientists and engineers who go to religious services and then work on ways to blow up the world, save lives, put a person on Mars. Maybe they think that their just working out the details of their chosen God's magic/power. Im interested in why you think the 3 part trial should have a media blackout. Your right I live in America I am not a British citizen so if I could get your opinion on the trial being silenced, without Tommy being in the reason.

Im betting the drug dealers trial might not have a blackout. Also it seems you have been taught how to have a conversation with non believers.

Non Muslim. The followers of the book. You know the corrupted cousins.

You dont want to answer, why a blackout on such a huge trial

It is a blackout. Why has nobody reported the verdicts. Have there not been any? I ask because it would make sense for his supporters to provide the details of the case and gather support for Tommy and if they were found innocent it would make it easier for the Muslim community to gather support against Tommy. Neither has happened.

I answerd your question but you keep talking about Tommy not the trial he was arrested at. When im asking on return why the trial or verdicts shouldn't be public knowledge.

But what about the original trial. If Tommy never was born and nobody interrupted the trial. I dont believe reporting is interrupting. Should it be public and not silenced.

Doesn't matter about previous. He was on a public street not court grounds.

If you watch his recorded live stream he asks cops multiple times if he was ok there and where boundaries were. He interfered in no way and this was a verdict hearing so there wasnt a way for him to interfere with the trial at all.

Lastly just because there is a law doesn't make it moral or correct. Everything Hitler did was legal. Stalin and Mao too.

This time he interrupted nothing. Was a verdict hearing any way but he was on the public street.

I am beginning to think you aren't really here for people to peove you wrong about pedophilia in Islam

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't compatible with the West in a larger sense depending on YOUR interpretation. The actions of a large enough number of Muslims in Western countries and their own is enough to determine they're not using your interpretation, though. Sure, not all Muslims are bad people. There are enough that are that I want to stop bringing them in to other countries until they sort themselves out before they destroy those places too.

Enough "bad apples" and those bad apples are extremely violent and authoritarian. The Muslims who would get along fine in a peaceful, western society are bullied and guilted by faith into going along with the demands of the bad apples. The problem is there are so many bad apples that it is a risk to any country that takes them in large numbers.

The immigration "crisis" is largely manufactured to take advantage of this. Who are the most likely to be the extremists? Young males. Who makes up 42% of the "refugees" in Europe? Males 18 to 34. Overall 70% of them are males.

What I'm saying is basically that there is a large enough presence in the Islamic faith of those who use the faith to do bad things. By taking in large numbers of them we are not solving the problem, only importing it, and it is a problem that fundamentally sees any attempt by us to de-radicalize them through assimilation as a betrayal of their faith.

They're just as violent in their own countries. They are largely ruled by authoritarians and they interpret the West's way of dealing with legal matters and justice as a weakness.

While those are great questions I would hesitate to say they're entirely relevant if we're discussing the pros and cons of mass importation. If I were a grocer and I got a shipment of bad apples I wouldn't put them on the shelves of my store and postulate how they got to be bad. I'd send them back to the distributor and tell him to figure it out. Sure, I might be able to sell some of the good apples but stocking the shelves with rotten apples will only harm my business. Then as the worms infect the other produce my store would go out of business until I can't afford to stay open.

Well I kind of started talking about that in my post in regards to the fake immigration crisis but I guess I'm in too many places at once because that wasn't really the overall topic. I mean more to point out that if there are such large portions of an institution that are using it for nefarious purposes and that portion is violent enough to steer the course of the population as a whole then the whole thing is dangerous until the bad portions are rooted out. The thing about institutional change is it must come from within. The violent followers of Islam are never going to become peaceful from a bunch of kaffirs telling them about their own faith. It's going to take the peaceful followers to right the ship.

Nobody is focusing on the Catholic church being infiltrated by pedophiles when there won't be any Vatican left to worry about saving so long as Europe keeps importing so many people who hate their way of life and European governments are complicit in it.

Let's say for arguments sake that you're right that the Quran doesn't promote pedophilia. The people you need to convince of that aren't non-Muslims. Nobody is going to care so long as child brides are still rampant amongst it's followers. For instance, many people dislike Christianity because so many of it's followers in the past did things like beating up or murdering gay people or whatever you want to call it. Jesus never advocated those things, though.

Islam promotes pedophilia. Aisha by well researched scholars was 9 when her marriage was consummated and it is considered ok to use the thighs on little girls by Muhammad own message.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia#Some_Islamic_Sources_say_Aisha_was_Really_17_or_18_Years_Old

Rationalizing Pedophilia in Islam - https://raymondibrahim.com/2011/06/29/rationalizing-pedophilia-in-islam/

There is also an allowance to abuse little boys and poetry about it too.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/islam/72virgins_and_boys.htm

Warning this is disgusting example

famous poet Abu Nuwas:

O the joy of sodomy! So now be sodomites, you Arabs. Turn not away from it-- therein is wondrous pleasure. Take some coy lad with kiss-curls twisting on his temple and ride as he stands like some gazelle standing to her mate. A lad whom all can see girt with sword and belt not like your whore who has to go veiled. Make for smooth-faced boys and do your very best to mount them, for women are the mounts of the devils

This is a huge part of the dislike. Kids get sexually abused by our politicians and clergy and sickos but they hide out while Islam says it's perfectly fine.

Then our soldiers must endure it happening on bases.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html

The rise in rapes of children have increased drastically wherever Muslim migrants are brought in. The Either an 1400 girls raped and abused and trafficked are just one example.

Tommy Robinson has been trying to bring awareness because people do not know they have such dangers lurking around their children.

The Sikhs organized to combat it but because of so called hate crime statutes they don't get arrested and harass for it being a protected class.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23921570

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that it doesn't even matter to me whether or not some guy comes on and says the Quran doesn't really promote an idea when millions of its followers think it does.

I guess my question is, where does this hate come from?

I would say a combination of 9/11 (and global Islamist terror back to the 80's); media sensationalism and fearmongering; and just straight up propaganda.

Islam has plenty of problems (like Islamists and a variety of extremist sects), but white Christians have committed far more acts of terror on American soil than Muslims. But then white Christians are not the great "Other" we have been conditioned to fear and hate, so no one thinks twice or examines it much further.

First of all, Tommy Robinson is a moron.

That said, it's pretty widely accepted that Aisha was a kid when she married Muhammad.

According to Sunni scriptural Hadith sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was married to Muhammad with the marriage not being consummated until she had reached the age of nine or ten years old which is interpreted by many observers to indicate that she reached puberty at this age.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

The only person I can find that denies this a small female Muslim US author who tries to argue that various anti-feminist parts of the Quran and Hadiths are misinterpreted. Nobody that I can find takes her work seriously.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Believing_Women%22_in_Islam

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 188658}

I've given you a whole page, which comes with sources, showing that the consensus is that Aisha was a kid when she married and consummated with Muhammad.

I've given you two sources, you've only given insults back.

You haven't given any sources in this entire thread, and until you do you don't have a leg to stand on.

I've given you a whole page, which comes with sources, showing that the consensus is that Aisha was a kid when she married and consummated with Muhammad.

I've given you two sources, you've only given insults back.

You haven't given any sources in this entire thread, and until you do you don't have a leg to stand on.

You haven't actually posted a link to any source, where as I posted two links to multiple sources.

Once you post a link, a genuine source for your argument rather than telling me to "google it", I'll respond to that source. Until then you're just wasting everyone's time.

You can't provide any sources, and so your point is invalid.

You can't just pluck random numbers out of thin air, cite them as your "research" without providing a link to your dates, come to a conclusion that differs wildly from general consensus (even in the Muslim world) and then not show anyone where you got your results from and how you got there. You absolute fucking moron.

The fact that I'm even having to explain to this to you proves they you're a complete moron, or just a troll. Either way, please fuck off with your idiocy.

You say your not religious but then in a reply you say your trying to figure out if you have been lied too your whole life. Sounds religous to me. Maybe confused on if you want to be or just shilling.

What did i lie about? Why would you be told about a 6 year old bride all your life if you were not Muslim? That might be a bigger problem

Your not answering why the case shouldn't be public info. The drug dealers would be, wouldnt it? If your a follower of religion then there is a pretty good chance you've been lied to. Thats why most religions do their form of confirmation early in life. If they did it later in life the numbers might drop off after people recieve 12 years of education. Im not a hater of religion as many on Reddit are. I think going to church, temple, mosques is more or less just a way to network. Thier are scientists and engineers who go to religious services and then work on ways to blow up the world, save lives, put a person on Mars. Maybe they think that their just working out the details of their chosen God's magic/power. Im interested in why you think the 3 part trial should have a media blackout. Your right I live in America I am not a British citizen so if I could get your opinion on the trial being silenced, without Tommy being in the reason.

You dont want to answer, why a blackout on such a huge trial

An attack on child rapists?

Yes

Except the hadith regarding is considered sahih, it wasn't just invented by some guy in Persia.

Grown men fuck 9 year olds in the middle east now, why is it so inconceivable it happened back then?

So just to clarify, the Islamic texts that state she is a child are vauge and open to interpretation, but the recording of dates is unquestionable historical fact?

Got it.

WW1 has a fuckton of source material.

As does aisha being a child.

Simple as that.