It should write a book. Seriously you’ve got an interesting style and I like it

I really liked Phil Lesh’s book. If your book has similar adventures, I’ll be all over it. Do post if and when you do let it out.

I have never heard anything relating GD to the CIA or anything. Not saying this isn't a possibility, just I have nothing to add. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. But my curiosity is certainly piqued.

Tom Wolfe is in my top 5 american literature authors. Loved Electric Koolaid Acid Test. I read one by him called A Man in Full the other day, hadn't heard of it...but it was surprisingly fantastic. Had me in tears laughing a couple times haha.

Hoping to wander back after I wake up and find some awesome info here.

Further

Oh ya, I read all of Kasey too, great author. I went on a little beatnik odyssey awhike back. It was an interesting subculture. I wouldn't have wanted to be one of them, but I appreciate all the experimental stuff they were doing in lit.

I think the CIA was terrified of the Grateful Dead.

Yeah, if you haven't listened to Josh Reeves - he's got your back on that one.

I have heard this for years, and I am not convinced they are. I do find it strange they went to Bohemian Grove. However they have been in some trouble with the law and it would seem if they were working for the CIA this wouldn't happen.

I really just think they were in the right place at the right time and became responsible for creating a sub culture that will out live them.

I don't really see a lot of occult symbology with them. Maybe you could point some things out you have noticed? Most of the time it is pretty blatant. They remain mostly positive forces even today. Probably the worst it got was when jerry was addicted to heroine really bad.

I wouldn't take a Dead Heads word on them being Satanic though. A lot of those guys just spew whatever pops into their heads without a second thought. Maybe they were tempted for a while by the powers that be after they proved themselves to be worthy? Hence Bohemian Grove?

Mazel on the new baby its a very intense journey ahead...BUT AT LEAST IM ENJOYING THE RIDE...

There are some interesting lyrics and the symbolism is totally there to a degree. That with there location and time when starting the band(height in the 60's) as well as the friends that hung out at 710 I am sure it could get pretty occulty quick.

Yea but the dead also did tunes like "Cold Jordan" and "Bid you good night" in the early years....during those 6 hour Filmore East shows.

I think "All Along the Watchtower" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D69V5R09naQ was the most overtly religious song they did until after Warren Haynes replaced Jerry.

Nah, CIA will disavow assets just like any intelligence agency. It's up to the asset not to get caught, and if they do they can't reveal what they know.

I never knew about their visit to Bohemian Grove: no matter what people say, I'm firmly convinced they practice occult rituals there.

I am a HUGE deadhead...that being said I cant help but think about the connection to satanism and the letter people. I am not so sure about BG but the moloch altar is quite suspicious and the cremation of care ceremony is minimized by those that attend but its also very secretive too so who knows if the GD has this connection but I would LIKE TO THINK NOT. However my thinking ISNT FACTS at all times so there is that. Peace yall!!

the cremation of care

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation_of_Care

Wait this is just a play about... bioethics and the myth of Care?

As Care (Cura) was crossing a river, she thoughtfully picked up some mud and began to fashion a human being. While she was pondering what she had done, Jupiter came along. (Jupiter was the founder of Olympian society, a society of the major gods and goddesses who inhabited Mount Olympus after most of the gods had already appeared.) Care asked him to give the spirit of life to the human being, and Jupiter readily granted this. Care wanted to name the human after herself, but Jupiter insisted that his name should be given to the human instead. While Care and Jupiter were arguing, Terra arose and said that the human being should be named after her, since she had given her own body. (Terra, or Earth, the original life force of the earth, guided Jupiter's rise to power.) Finally, all three disputants accepted Saturn as judge. (Known for his devotion to fairness and equality, Saturn was the son of Terra and the father of Jupiter.) Saturn decided that Jupiter, who gave spirit to the human, would take back its soul after death; and since Terra had offered her body to the human, she should receive it back after death. But, said Saturn, "Since Care first fashioned the human being, let her have and hold it as long as it lives." Finally, Jupiter said, "Let it be called homo (Latin for human being), since it seems to be made from humus (Latin for earth)" (see Grant, 1960; Shklar, 1972). 

http://care.georgetown.edu/Classic%20Article.html

Wait, so they ARE symbolizing killing life essence...?!

Yeah I am not sure what the point of the ceremony is. I know its an annual event they do and there are conspiracies about the whole thing and whether or not they use effigies or real folks. I couldnt say either way as I am not a rich man with a site there. Those are by an invitation only status that I will NEVER HOLD.

First off I want to say I am a "dead head" or at least somewhat born into the culture, had a stepdad who did some of their most famous artwork, was even brought to a show in 94 and 95 right before jerry passed, I was four years old for the latter. Ive always appreciated their style and free spirit, very different than most other popular music. On the other hand after learning about the occult independently of the Dead it took me a long time to admit that yes their symbology matches occult symbology to the dot. Simply undeniable, and when you look at what a cult like following they have created, and the destructive nature of much of the lifestyles they lead, the reoccuring symbolism starts making more sense. Their three most common symbols are The lightning strike, The skull, and the rose. You cant get much more occultic than that. My familiarity with the occult leads me to believe its not all bad. There are aspects of it that are sound. Many core tenants of say hermetic philisophy are higher truths. I believe in a way this is the power they hold over us. Knowledge of reality and how to position themselves in a way to control the lower realms. I also believe them being in this position allows them to harness and tap into spiritual realms and such to create great art and music. Art is expression. Who would be in a better position to not only tap into the collectives subconscious and create something they can connect to. But also allows them to in a sense, provided they adhere to the laws they practice, steer humanity in a direction they want. Do I think the band members were aware of this influence? I am unsure, but in my mind I think many of these artists and musicians controlled by the occult, are maybe discovered by these groups as having a special talent of say music. They are then given means drugs, ceremonies rituals, knowledge, to give them the extra edge they need to get to the top. Meanwhile these musicians may still have good intentions. But to the secret societies they have become assets. Tools to be used to fit certain peoples agenda. Lets not forget Robert Hunter their main song writer and one who turned the band on to LSD just like Ken Kesey and Charlie Manson for that matter, were all subjects to cia program Mk ultra

were'nt the beatles involved as suppliers, re UK dentist? in those a stories at Zsa zsa's it's not clear who's giving what to whom but at the time neither crosby or mcguinn had a hoffman connection prior to their visit . Then acid tests came few months later.

The Grateful Dead was spying on the beings that exist in the dimensions only reachable when playing awesome music together while co-tripping on acid and shrooms. They did a great service to our country.

Can't ignore the colonial deepstate roots, cuz there's a whole "Brutish invasion" angle here. In a few years it spilled into manson and altamont but the only UK horror going on that particular summer in cali involved Elizebeth Taylor rolling around on sandpiper beach not even pretending to hide her accent. were'nt the beatles involved in early '65 as suppliers? Their "dentist/facial reconstruction specialist" supposedly turned them on in '64 (although there is a Hamburg possibility much earlier). In those a stories at Zsa zsa's it's not clear who's giving what to whom but for sure neither crosby nor mcguinn had a hoffman connection prior to their visit . The owsley tests w Gratefuldead came few months after beatles visit. Acid is the number one choice conditioner for CIA recruitment, have you ever met one who hasn't dosed?

What country might that be? ... cuz there's a whole "Brutish invasion" angle here, hard to ignore the colonial deepstate roots. In a few years it spilled into manson and altamont, but the only UK horror going on in Cali that particular summer involved Elizebeth Taylor rolling around sandpiper beach not even pretending to hide her accent. were'nt the beatles involved in early '65 as suppliers? Their "dentist/facial reconstruction specialist" supposedly turned them on in '64, but there's also an Hamburg possibility much earlier. In those stories at Zsa zsa's it's not clear who's giving what to whom but for sure neither crosby nor mcguinn had a hoffman connection prior to their visit . The owsley tests w Gratefuldead came few months after beatles visit. Acid is the number one choice conditioner for CIA recruitment, have you ever met one who hasn't dosed?

depends what country ... cuz there's a whole "Brutish invasion" angle here, hard to ignore the colonial deepstate roots. In a few years it would spill into manson and altamont, but the only UK horror going on in cali that particular summer involved Elizebeth Taylor rolling around sandpiper beach not even pretending to hide her accent. were'nt the beatles involved in early '65 as suppliers? Their "dentist/facial reconstruction specialist" supposedly turned them on in '64, but there's also an Hamburg possibility much earlier. In those stories at Zsa zsa's it's not clear who's giving what to whom but for sure neither crosby nor mcguinn had a hoffman connection prior to their visit . The owsley tests w Gratefuldead came few months after that. Acid is the number one choice conditioner for CIA recruitment, have you ever met one who hasn't dosed?

These two links below are in the vein of the late, great Dave McGowan's work:

Joe Atwill and Jan Irvin discuss the Grateful Dead's ties to the intel community

Manufacturing the Deadhead: A Product of Social Engineering… by Joe Atwill and Jan Irvin

I bought something [forget what. blotter art?] from Ken Kesey's son off eBay years ago, & we had a fairly lengthy email exchange going for awhile afterwards. Do not remember what any of it was about, but I do remember he was a really nice guy.

I know very little about Owsley, so I was just wondering why you call him "the great Owsley?" I think I read somewhere that Owsley was a far right-wing kind of guy -- not right-wing, but far right.

Love your post. And here's a reddit thread with more info about the Grateful Dead and Timothy Leary's CIA connections:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8relrg/lsd_promoter_timothy_leary_exposed_as_cia_agent/

....and here's a link to the video footage mentioned in the thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3i4ALdMSt0

Bear only ate meat...he spent his later years no longer making LSD but jewelry in Australia until he crashed into a tree I think it was. The drugs didnt kill him...a jeep did.

Since you and misvanjieee are so keen on Owsley, the far right-winger, let's look into his CIA connections :-) -- although plenty of liberals are in the CIA too.

Short quotes from John Potash's excellent book Drugs As Weapons Against Us:

"....key people appeared to push Kesey's and the Merry Pranksters' LSD promotion. Augustus Owsley Stanley III (best known as Owsley) came from a wealthy and powerful Kentucky "blue blood" family....his grandfather was a governor and then a U.S. Senator from Kentucky. Owsley had dropped out of the University of Virginia while studying engineering. In 1958, at the age of 21, he enlisted in the Air Force and served for 18 months. His behavior afterwards suggests he did continuing undercover work for Air Force intelligence and MK-Ultra....[Sorry, I'm skipping some stuff here]....Owsley began manufacturing mass quantities of LSD in 1963." [End Quote]

After Ken Kesey stopped working at a San Francisco-area hospital that was conducting CIA-funded MK-Ultra LSD studies, Kesey began getting lots of his LSD from Owsley (for the Kool Aid Acid test events -- the first raves I guess).

I'm skipping lots more stuff here to jump a few pages forward.

[Quote] "At the nearby UC-Berkeley campus, students were organizing and protesting as part of the Berkeley Free Speech Movement. Clearly, during two of the biggest leftist mobilization of students, the civil rights Freedom Summer and the Berkeley Free Speech Movement, MK-Ultra-linked LSD promoters worked hard to spread the drug amongst them. U.S. intelligence had already launched FBI Counterintelligence Program (Cointelpro) tactics against Marting Luterh King Jr. and the civil rights movement in the South. The CIA's Operation Chaos joined the FBI's Cointelpro targeting. Also, MK-Ultra was extremely active at Stanford University, 40 miles south of Berkeley.

"Student accounts of the Free Speech Movement at Cal-Berkeley suggest that certain Merry Pranksters targeted the radical leftists of Berkeley's campus. For example, Denise Kaufman described how she had just enrolled at Berkeley when she...."[End quote].

Sorry you'll have to pick up the book at the library or bookstore for the rest.

I should add:

[Quote from John Potash's book Drugs As Weapons Against Us] "Owsley had teamed up with William Mellon Hitchcock as early as 1964. Billy Hitchcock's Mellon family, as described earlier, was one of the country's wealthiest families who held many U.S. intelligence posts. Hitchcock provided unlimited financial and technological resources to the band The Grateful Dead."

Yeah didnt Kesey (back to him for a second) steal the LSD25 from the closet of that hospital?? Hahaah his leaving might have been prompted a bit.

I guess I should have known all my childhood idols are now becoming ANYTHING BUT

Yeah, no kidding. McGowan said pretty much the same thing in his book Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops, & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream."

Seeing Leary laughing with all his shady alphabet buddies was my first of many eye opening events as of late.

It was so appropriate and telling that Al Hubbard, the "Johnny Appleseed of LSD," showed up at the reunion in a policeman's uniform (since he ran the CIA front company to import LSD into America from the Swiss drug company Sandoz).

Bear was a great man. A genius. The wall of sound he designed for the dead was revolutionary.

Maybe so but see my reply to sackajahweeda.

You're talking to the wrong person if you think someone being right wing is a bad thing.

Well, I said far right wing. I make a distinction between right and far right.

Hedonism is not satanism... Satanism is believing that humanity is not a part of nature/the creations of God, but some freak accident/the spawn of Satan.

I don't think you know "most Christians."

"Christian" isn't a race, but a system of beliefs people choose to subscribe to. There is nothing wrong with saying what 'most Christians' believe. Most Christians believe the dogma of their Christian sect, no? Would you even call them "Christians" if they have their entirely own interpretation of the gospel? Are you saying you believe 500 million+ Christians break with the dogma of their sect and have their own beliefs?"

known fact: jerry garcia used heroin travelling the country for decades

known fact: cia controls the heroin trade

known fact: cia monarch program controls who is allowed to be popular

known fact: the grateful dead were lazy, decadent, apolitical and all-around a poor representation of 60's culture and all around bad examples. their 'touring' was like dragging the worst elements of the 1960s around the country proclaiming them as the best, so an all around propaganda win as anyone who was drawn into this scene would be easily harvested into other programs and in general understood on a basic level. I suspect a lot of women were ruined this way and a lot of addicts were created in general.

So you do the remaining math.

known fact: they created the best music ever and true deadheads followed them for the intense musical connection.

Your last ‘fact’ is particularly off base. Lazy? As artists, they work exceptionally hard for their music

it's just average blues rock, not the best music ever

i don't hate TGD, and I like a lot of their music, but the hype does not match the value and their must have been something else going on behind the scenes

the Lot Scene was basically a way for the cia to do human experimentation and people died or had lives ruined.

people who are just into peace and love were lured into things that really hurt them, it wasn''t innocent and it still continues to this day

the rainbow family is now a law enforcement operation and they distribute fake psychedelics and run elaborate entrapment schemes, spread the word

Are these words of wisdom about the rainbow? Because I would call their psychedelics ANYTHING BUT FAKE. There may have been a leo operation that you know about but the family as a whole is anything but LEOs and are in fact very anti anything government.

i do not say that the rainbow family itself is LEO but it is now so infiltrated as to become meaningless

on day 1 of the national gathering the backbone camps are already built, and these are cops, in the lot and all on the main trail. in vermont it was already probably 50% cops and in Oregon I got there on day 1 to see it with my own eyes and found out everything I had questions about was cops.

and they distrubute fake drugs that are really more like ghb or some truth serum but would fool most people. then they bait people into crimes, mostly to see if old guys will attack younger women/girls but also there will be campfire circles that a provocateur will interrupt with profanity to see if one of the guys will try to fight him or something like that.

they walk barefoot, they do drugs, they have surveillance set up on the entire forest one way or the other, lots of cameras in glasses or hats or stuffed animal backpacks.

this pisses me off, so i spread the word.

Fedlocks? Yeah they have been on tour since there was a tour...They are (usually) easy to spot but alas as I see them arrest people at shows not to everyone..Sad that they go after these easy hippy targets.

One of the interesting things about becoming a pot activist when you are already a Deadhead is you start noticing the CIA agents who are assigned to the shows. Want to know what sets them apart from everyone else?

They don't like the music! Busted, I'm calling you out as a government agent. So, why the sudden Dead bashing? What is YOUR motive?

I play grateful dead songs like ripple and rider regularly, I am a fan of the music even though I have some serious criticisms of the culture and musicianship of the band.

In the sense that they did not rise to their highest potential and that like a lot of american artists they end up being used by the surveillance/mafia state to take advantage of naive young people.

my mindhawk project has outed numerous illegal surveillance, infiltration and outright dosing of people with date rape chemicals to entrap them into crimes, all at the hands of nebulous undercovers who may be fbi, private security or cia.

At festivals like the oregon country fair, you can expect every campground to have a fake camp of police there just to infiltrate.

They will not arrest most people for drug offenses and they will themselves sell or pretend to sell weed and lsd and shrooms. They infiltrate and then find the best way to eliminate or use dead-head/hippy/music tour/festival culture.

This is no time to be simple minded, you have been warned.

why would you even bother to say this and not comment on the huge issue that I am reporting?

I would hardly call a band that toured as much as the Grateful Dead lazy. Lets not forget the time they spent in the studio as well though they really didnt like doing so and were almost sued in fact to finish albums there was time spent to make many albums: again not lazy. It may have appeared to be lazy hippy life but that was obvious propaganda and posturing in appearance for their audience that worked in their very well oiled machine that gave many people jobs (and still do a few in Marin and on tour). But certainly not lazy. Poor Jerry wasnt the healthiest of fat men and he still managed to do what he did best for a great many years. I feel in my heart of hearts that it was actually recovery and detoxing in an inexperienced facility that killed Jerry.

maybe lazy is the wrong word

they are the perfect example of an artistic project that speaks of wonderful things but sits comfortably inside a box, and that box ends up like a flag that draws people to it that are then manipulated and put at risk.

'come to the festival of peace and love and good vibes and hang with jerry and friends with tie die and dancing bears'

said the spider to the fly....

this spider stuff is what pisses me off

watch a grateful dead show from 1969, then watch one in 1980, it's like watching mannequins in comparison. their stuff has a lot of heart but they are playing the same stuff for like 40 years and it is only intermediate level difficulty.

Yeah I believe that happens with any band that has been together for a long time...EXCEPT THE ROLLING STONES Geeeezuss his zeal on stage and his age just dont go together Mick is like your granddad given a huge dose of youth serum and ADDERALL!! hahaah

As Jerry went, so did the Dead. He was their leader, although he refused the moniker.

How many obese heroin addicts have you seen? Jerry was in awful health for most of the 80's. Poor guy was pulling triple duty with touring with other bands just to make enough money to satisfy his exorbitant drug habit.

People romanticize The Grateful Dead, but let's not forget that they were human and made mistakes along the way.

Poor guy was pulling triple duty with touring with other bands just to make enough money to satisfy his exorbitant drug habit.

That's not true. He could have lived off just his ben and jerry's money if he wanted to. It was more that he was supporting the people who worked for him and their families.

Plus chan smoking unfiltered cigarettes.

So you are not a fan of the music. Got it.

Grateful Dead - Friend of The Devil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XacvydVrhuI

But I AM a fan of the music, I am just capable of comparing it to other bands and having a broader view of what this cultural thing is.

Manufacturing the Deadhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtXg_Wp2NY0&list=PLJ0S88eyUTlb6UVPcegGXptSMl69ea1D6

I was just thinking about how amazing of marketers the dead were. There’s been countless books on them. Maybe the govt wanted to know how they got such a following and created so many deadheads out of their movement etc

LOL. As the former wife of a Deadhead I can tell you that you might as well ask why the Catholic church is so popular. It is a tribe, a group of people who are united by the music. If you think it is anything other than that, well we just laugh at you and wonder what drugs you are on.

This is a great topic. I have become increasing suspicious of all things psychadelia. It seems this entire movement was not merely co-opted by the CIA, but there are some interesting theories which suggest it was actually created by the CIA. All these random drug using hippies were given disproportionate media attention and were submitted for mass consumption to the populous. But why?

You have to remember there was an enormous population (baby boomers) who all were going through the same phases of youthful rebelliousness at the exact same time. It seems this entire movement of psychadelic 'counter culture' was manufactured to appease them and give them something to latch onto that was at least somewhat predictable and controllable.

Think of it like a 'controlled burn.' In forestry they do controlled burns to burn up all the underbrush of the forest in a controlled manner. If they dont, it will eventually catch fire anyway in a less controlled situation where it could spread and become catastrophic. Now apply this metaphor to popular culture. There were potentially volatile elements in the country as the massive post ww2 baby population came of age all at the exact same time. They were all questioning authority like all kids do at that age, but they made up such a huge bulk of the populous. They needed something to latch on to lest they become radicalized and potentially dangerous. Popular culture provided that.

I look at old Life magazine articles of the 'merry pranksters' and wonder to myself why a bunch of loser ass hippies riding around the country in a bus was worthy of national media attention. It's similar to the popular culture distractions that happen today through reality TV and such. But at that time the stakes may have been even higher with so many assassinations, riots, civil rights movement, cold war nuclear threats, vietnam protests, the country could have quickly gone to shit if the wrong things gained influence. Hippies, free love and acid served as a very convenient distraction for all of this. Keep in mind surveillance wasnt as sophisticated as it is now, and police and weaponry were still somewhat archaic. Unlike now, a massive violent popular uprising was a real potential threat.

We know that the CIA experimented with acid directly on our troops. If you start looking at the names and the geography, it all seems to point to palo alto, and stanford university as well. Experimental psychology theories were really taking hold and becoming popular at this time.

The merry pranksters and Timothy Leary, mr acid himself, had CIA funding and CIA ties. Leary has an incredibly sketchy past. He was no regular hippie. He served at the Army Specialized Training Center and was involved in Psy Ops, and recieved 4 medals. He popularized Acid more than any single man.

Someone was paying him to go around the country and popularize acid and the media was covering his every move extensively. For a few years in the late 60's acid was legal and he openly promoted and distributed it. He coupled his acid popularizations with a heavy dose of new age and occult symbolism and philosophies, which also really took hold and were popularized in the 60's like never before.

He was portrayed by Nixon as public enemy #1 and was even the plaintiff in the case that declared the marijuana tax act unconstitutional, which of course led to the controlled substance act we still have today. All this is just too coincidental to be authentic and stinks of a greater strategy that was being played out on a national stage for all to see.

Now as for the greatful dead, they were the official band of Leary's 'human be ins' which were held quite famously at Golden Gate park in 1967, "the summer of love." And all these strange characters with questionable pasts and psy ops and military ties, were all in the same place at the same time introducing their new philosophies to the public and being unusually documented by media, especially for some random drug taking musicians. The dead provided the soundtrack for the world famous "Electric kool aid acid tests."

This was all presented as a spontaneous grass roots movement of peace and love and just feeling good, but theres a lot to suggest there was concerted strategy behind a lot of this.

And of course the dead were there through all of it. This only scratches the surface, but personally looking at all the occult imagery and symbolism they used in their lyrics an their music, as well as their close affiliation with Leary and his past, leads me to question the authenticity and innocence of the entire hippy movement.

But of course they werent alone. The beatles, probably the most famous band in world history also popularized psychedelics extensively.

It really takes a critical mind to analyze the youth culture of the 60's. These things are so deeply ingrained in popular culture that most people just take them at face value and few people question their origin, or whether there was a reason or purpose behind these strange things that were being so openly and widely popularized by multinational corporations and a well consolidated media in what was just 10 years before, a culturally conservative society that paid no attention to drugs and drug users. I am of the mind that popular culture doesnt just happen by chance.

Mountain Girl played a particularly interesting role as an almost go between for the GD and Kesey as she had her first daughter Sunshine with him. I always thought that must have made for some interesting times on that bus.

Excellent analysis!!!

This sub needs more posts like this.

Deadhead here. Clarification:Bob Weir is a piece of shit. Always was. Jerry would not participate in the bs. It's my belief his death was not as reported. Just my 2¢

What do you think happened?

I think that it was a CIA experiment, and Jerry refused to participate, and he died suspiciously at a rehab. I don't know what happened. I know I am intuitively suspicious.

It's good to be suspicious of the "official" story, especially when the story seems incredible, especially when the story benefits you.

What experiment do you think the CIA could have wanted to perform on him? It's easy to get an addict if you've got power. I need more than intuition, personally, as I use it a lot, but it's not enough to convince a true skeptic.

I don't. I think Bob Weir, and other members, minus Phil Lesh, wanted to keep touring and Jer wanted out. I think bobs handlers killed Jer.

Also noteworthy, Jer was at Serenity Knolls, in Forest Knolls Ca. Ever heard of it? I was actually in FK the night he died. It is literally a bar, P.O. and a co-op. So few people......odd.....also, would Jer have not been #1 priority? Perhaps he had a DNR order, but how did it get that far under medical supervision. Compel the records via FOIA. Idk...

I have gone down this rabbit hole a few times. I'm basically where you are at.... fan of the dead, not quite sure what to make of the weir @ bohemian grove and other rumors about their true intentions... and want to lean towards the 'taking the bad with the good' scenario; as they no doubt did a lot of good and make some epic music.

I guess all I'd have to add is an Owsley article for the Rolling Stone I read once with a couple lines/'jokes' from members of the band reminiscing Owsley that could be taken in a satanic way or not. Check it out. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-dead-recall-the-colorful-life-of-lsd-pioneer-owsley-stanley-20110330

I think there was at least something deeper going on, and I'd really love to know the details, but I'm really just not fucking sure how it all fits together haha. I love LSD and good music soooo idk :p

Bob weir has attended the Bohemian Grove

Regarding weir and bohemian Grove - I used to live on the property right next to bohemian grove, growing cannabis. Monte rio, where it is located, and the surrounding areas, where weir lives, is a pretty small, tight knit community, and Bobby is very well known here. It's not a strech at all to imagine he was invited by another local member of the grove, simply due to his celebrity status, wealth, and proximity of where he lIves to the grove. Fwiw I never saw anything suspicious when hiking around the grove, but my landlord said he was once approached by men in suits in the woods and asked to turn back...which does not make sense to me...why would they be wearing suits deep in the woods like that? Wouldn't hiking clothes make a security team for that kind of location much more effective? Idk if I buy it or not but that's my experience with the grove.

Read Hunter's essay on the meaning by Franklin's Tower.

Good post, I wonder the same.

I look at this from a different angle. I think, hope really, they were organic and had influence and were sabotaged. My first Dead show was in 1981 at the Uptown Theater in Chicago when I was in high school. I was hooked from then on. Back then I got my tickets via their PO box thing and while there were never any empty seats their wasnt a massive scalpers market either. I could show up at a show anywhere in the country and get a ticket for face value. There was a sense of family and community among Deadheads.

By 1990 it seemed things had gotten out of hand and I stopped going on the road. I caught three shows at the World Music Theater near home and the crowd had completely changed. Frat kids in polo shirts pounding beer bongs and instigating fights with longtime Deadheads became the norm at shows.

I still wonder how the Dead became popular with a crowd that truly ran counter to the music and message, and if this popularity was planted to blow the whole scene up. By 95 it was a shit show, and the last shows in Chicago were more like a Dave Matthews / Jimmy Buffet crowd hybrid than a Dead thing.

Acid Dreams is required reading for the subject of government experimentation of LSD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Dreams_(book)

https://erowid.org/library/books_online/acid_dreams.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/Acid-Dreams-Complete-History-Sixties/dp/0802130623

It touches on Kesey and Timothy Leary as well as other figures in the 60s acid movement, though it doesn't make any strong implications of direct government ties. It's still fascinating and freighting material.

Music is one of the most powerful tools of mind control, ever since our ancestors pounded on the first war drums. Grateful Dead and all of those other Laurel Canyon bands were all CIA-approved, just like the LSD. Phish inherited the MK-CULTURE in the '90s, but now electronic festivals seem to be the favored method for mass musical mind control. I loved a lot of this music, but it's hard to reconcile with its more sinister purpose. If these hippy free love drug movements were truly "counterculture", why were they given so much media coverage?

I have known a LOT of Deadheads over the years and I can not think of a single one of them who ever struck me as Satanic. I think you are totally barking up the wrong tree, it is just not a part of the culture and I think I would have realized it if it was. They have a lot of faults, but that is not one of them that I ever saw.

Does the CIA infiltrate the Dead? I don't know, but I'm sure they are an intrinsic part of the illegal drug dealing that goes along with the whole scene. I have to say one of the scariest nights of my entire life was when I went to a pot growers event and recognized a lot of people in the VIP smoking tent from Dead shows. All of a sudden I knew a lot more than I wanted to know about who was a big time drug dealer, like into the danger zone. That was terrifying.

I never liked Jerry's guitar playing [which I know is heresy among Deadheads], I thought it spoke of a lot of pain. People in pain use painkilling drugs, the CIA need not be involved past importing and dealing in order to control people and to make off the books money.

Mazel on the new baby its a very intense journey ahead...BUT AT LEAST IM ENJOYING THE RIDE...

There are some interesting lyrics and the symbolism is totally there to a degree. That with there location and time when starting the band(height in the 60's) as well as the friends that hung out at 710 I am sure it could get pretty occulty quick.

I don't. I think Bob Weir, and other members, minus Phil Lesh, wanted to keep touring and Jer wanted out. I think bobs handlers killed Jer.

Yea but the dead also did tunes like "Cold Jordan" and "Bid you good night" in the early years....during those 6 hour Filmore East shows.

Maybe so but see my reply to sackajahweeda.

I should add:

[Quote from John Potash's book Drugs As Weapons Against Us] "Owsley had teamed up with William Mellon Hitchcock as early as 1964. Billy Hitchcock's Mellon family, as described earlier, was one of the country's wealthiest families who held many U.S. intelligence posts. Hitchcock provided unlimited financial and technological resources to the band The Grateful Dead."

Yeah didnt Kesey (back to him for a second) steal the LSD25 from the closet of that hospital?? Hahaah his leaving might have been prompted a bit.