Atlantis is the coverup. There is much evidence of a technologically sophisticated global grand unified society less than 200 years ago.

Um try again "sweetie", that's European Colonialism, and standards of architectural style of the 1800s for you. Inspiration is another key factor, one country uses the style, it becomes popular, external Royal Families, and Nobles love it, go home, and have buildings built in the same style.

Next you'll be telling me that the Brutalist structures in the US and Great Britain were proof that those countries were controlled by the Soviets in the 1960s!

Not all commies are soviets.

Next you'll be telling me that the Brutalist structures in the US and Great Britain were proof that those countries were controlled by the Soviets in the 1960s!

You have no idea how right you are

Pyramids were built thousands of years before the 1800s.

You can't date rock

No, but you can examine erosion patters, date the organic material in the mortar, etc.

That said, you and I seem to agree that pyramids vastly predate "European Colonialism", so we seem to be on the same side here.

No I think everything is much younger than school teaches us. I think what you see on the Giza plateau or really any famous archeological site is akin to Disney world. At some point they may have been interesting but they have been altered beyond recognition. Erosion patterns don't do much good if we're still living in a uniformitarian paradigm. How do they distinguish between gradual erosion and catastrophic erosion?

We'll have to agree to disagree about this subject. If anything, the evidence seems to indicate that the pyramids of Giza, and especially the Sphinx, are much older than estimated. This is largely based on the work of R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz, for whom I have the utmost respect, and also the work of Robert Bauval, Graham Hancock, and Robert M. Schoch.

Good references there. Can't forget John Anthony West. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't own nearly all of R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz's major works. Need only the Temple of Man (steep price though at $120......but man, what a purchase that'd be).

You should just purchase it. It won't get cheaper unless there is a reprint.

Thank you! Schwaller de Lubicz was such an incredibly brilliant guy. His extensive knowledge and command of subjects like symbolism, theoretical physics, chemistry, biology, architecture, engineering, etc. is amazing. I often read his work twice, and still only understand half of it, if I'm lucky.

I agree on the Temple of Man, it's a good investment!

Damn fine cup of coffee.

You can't date rock

Of course you can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geochronology

that would explain the Pyramids located all over the world, including Antarctica

link to photos?

Is there some place I can see the photos?

Not helpful for the convo, but, i was watching AVP (alien v. Predator) yesterday and the plot starts with them founding some pyramids/structures in Antartica. Funny how i thought to myself "that sounds like the stuff you read on Reddit".

pyramids around the world arent evidence of anything other than being an efficient way to stack rocks.

NewEarth touched on this sometime ago, mind blowing take on it to say the least.

I've been collecting images ever since she planted the idea in my head :)

If you did that, impressive!

After the earthquake and loss of peninsula (not island) its people journeyed many years to many places, living in tents for fear of losing even more ground, hunting and foraging. At one point they were known as the Red People of Scotland. By 1800 they had all left the eastern hemisphere for their new lands they had been settling in for centuries, which were not as susceptible to crop famines such as happened to the Irish not long afterwards.

The problem with these people was their history was told by word of mouth, and therefore so polluted by inaccuracy that even before they settled in the West they had forgotten all about Atlantis. But they continued to be called "red" and live in tents.

Based on everything I've researched, Atlantis is probably right off of Cuba.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1697038.stm

Have you considered that it was a world-wide civilization, rather than a singular city?

I wouldn’t call it a theory, I’d call it fact. You got a lot of reading to do, but here’s a quick rundown of some stuff I’ve researched myself over the last few years...

There’s loads of evidence, articles and documentaries pointing out that ancient cities across the globe who supposedly lived independent from one another used the same building techniques, and managed impossible engineering feats that can’t even be efficiently replicated today. Precision cuts etc. Go and compare the stonework of Saksaywaman and Cuzco in Peru to Baalbek, Lebanon, and then to Giza Egypt. They all feature the same megalithic blocks, fit to precision so tight you cant fit paper between.

With the weathering of the Sphinx Enclosure at Giza among other things, there is a growing theory that the Egyptians as we know them merely inhabited that region, and the Pyramids are actually remnants of a much older, world-spanning advanced civilisation, which was wiped out in the biblical great flood, which occurred around 12k years ago following the Younger Dryas event. That civilisation could theoretically have been Atlantis.

Back to Egypt... The Egyptian king list spans back far further than the first pharaoh. Before there were kings of Egypt their kings were “gods”. The gods were enlightened elders, who supposedly lived thousands of years. Thoth (who is recognised also as Hermes) the god of wisdom, science, and astronomy was said to have stored a great library beneath the Sphinx which contained all collected knowledge of the universe and our extended history as a species.

The cover-up is quite real. You only have to look at how “Egyptologists” prevent, block and sabotage modern studies into its ancient history. There are chambers below the Sphinx’s paws. There are a labyrinth of tunnels beneath the Giza plateau. There is a lake under the great pyramid. Yet the Egyptian authorities deny it all.

The evidence is everywhere that we have been here a lot longer than we know. Chances are, earlier humans (maybe Atlanteans) had advanced technology centred around vibration and frequency, which would tie in with the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. Zechariah Sitchin calls us a “species with amnesia”. Half the stuff they taught in school history is absolute bullshit - outright lies and assumptions ignoring an abundance of evidence to the contrary.

Personally I believe this ancient civilisation understood the nature of the universe better than we do. They probably had a deep understanding of sound, energy and resonance, which unlocked parts of higher consciousness. I imagine TPTB actively suppress this by burying evidence and closing things off (just like the Vatican do with the Bible) because the truth is if we knew the truth, the collective consciousness would shift. Their control would be shattered when we realise we’re immortal energetic beings temporarily inhabiting a vessel (like the ancients believed) and not just the consuming zombies they need us to be.

Upon destruction, I like the thought that they spread out in many directions. So in a way Atlantis became global, but there was most likely a global network before that.

Now THIS is a fun theory. Props, my man.

Believe whatever you want to man, Personally the "island of Atlantis" is now the Azores (Bathymetric maps of the area for example) and considering the Azores is on a rift, it'd make sense that an earthquake struck the island, and most of it collapsed into the vent and magma chamber of whatever volcano was once there, and the Azores themselves are most likely the former peaks and hills of the island.

That's not how geology works.

I would disagree with that being Atlantis specifically. They mentioned it being a weak boat ride west of the straight of Gibraltar. If we use Roman era ships as a basis, it would put it at the Portuguese Azores. Coincidentally, a boater reported finding pyramids off the coast there. If you raise this area out of water the same distance as Cuba's pyramids, you get a land mass the size of the alleged Atlantis. Seeing as both the Azores and Cuba are on the edge of the tectonic plate, it isn't too surprising that with the ice being removed from the center of the plate, that these locations would sink. That is my theory anyways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBoA1686BQY

Probably Atlantis was Plato's idea/stand-in for the actual North American civilization that brought copper from Michigan and shellfish and some other stuff into the Mediterranean area, kickstarting the bronze age.

Ding ding ding.

Wait this is new to me but where is your correlation to North America?

The quote from the bible was not about them being from North America, that line of evidence has to do with the Old Copper Culture and the Pre-Clovis peoples.

The quote from numbers was demonstrating what certain people say about certain pieces of land and to whom it belongs.

Ahh yeah got it, thanks.

Any evidence of this?

Then why did Plato specifically say in his dialogues that the story was not a myth, and was an actual historical account? He specifically states that.

That was actually a very good movie. Atlantis was real. In fact there were many technologically advanced civilizations that have been hidden from us by the elite.

Great comment, outlandish claims personally regarded as facts and then claiming the elite are hiding them from you. What civs are you referring to? Don't name the ones everyone already knows about such as the Mayans, Mesopotamians and Egyptians. Where are your sources? And why was this upvoted? Other people also believe this to be fact? Explain first then claim fact after.

Read a book called Cataclysm: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C by D S Allan and J B Delair. The contains a mountain of hard evidence pointing to the very probable existence of a global civilisation and an event that destroyed it. It's nothing but hard, referenced and verifiable science.

So this book contains the evidence? Do you happen to know which evidence you're referring to? Geogroahical points? Photos of ruins, objects, or imprints from objects in the dirt? Saying there's evidence of ancient civilizations is much different then demonstrating said evidence. You're the one saying it's there, where is it?

The planet is covered with ancient engineering marvels many of which were built before the dawn of recorded history. Most of the academic descriptions of who built these structures, how they built them, and why they built them, are flimsy at best. There are cities and stone-paved roads at the bottom of seas which haven't been below sea level since half of Europe and North America were covered in thick glacier ice. There are similarities in architectural style around the entire world at a time when the academic consensus is that people weren't too far beyond sticks and stones tools.

None of this makes any sense. You are blind if you don't see that academia has so far failed to give a satisfactory description of these phenomena.

I guess you could always read the fucking book. You'd probably have to cut down your time being snide on the internet but, which seems pretty important to you. But I gave a reply to Step2theJep which contains a reference to what some of the evidence is. Because apparently you're incapable of researching for yourself.

Hahahahaha

You want him to write a research paper? Read 'Atlantis: The Antediluvian World' by Ignatius Donnelly, 'Atlantis Discovered' by Lewis Spence and 'The Secret of Atlantis', by Otto Muck. These 3 pieces of literature seem the most sound as to actually lrove the case that Atlantis existed as an advanced society.

Great books! I also suggest: 1) Atlantis: Mother of Empires by Robert Stacy-Judd; 2) Edgar Cayce's Atlantis published by the A.R.E.; 3) History of Atlantis by Lewis Spence; 4) Occult Sciences in Atlantis by Lewis Spence.

What's outlandish about citing Plato's detailed account of an advanced civilization in Atlantis. Check out the Timaeus and Critias. It's all in there. Lemuria/Mu would be another lost civilization that has been hidden.

Plato's account are absolutely outlandish in their own right.

Claim 1: this "island land mass" a has larger than ancient Libya and Asia minor combined, so basically the size of Texas or larger.

Claim 2: this land was sunk "overnight" by earthquakes.

Claim 3: ancient civilizations lived there and warred with the ancient athelonians.

Do you see how ridiculous these claims are? Claim 1 contradicts claim 2. By the way these are just my interpretations of this classical literature. What are your interpretations? Isn't it odd the only real "proof" we have are Plato's writings? Translated accounts from thousnads of years ago. This giant land mass sunk? Implying such an event is even possible, when else in history has such an event ever also occurred?

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/41/16016.short

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012825211000262

Those articles should get you started. It’s called the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis and in short it says that a meteor struck North America around 12,000 years ago, melting the glaciers and causing sea levels to rise 400 feet or so. Atlantis, if it was real, is theorized to have essentially been sunken by these rising sea levels. Saying they were an advanced society is a bit outlandish, but there is growing evidence that something catastrophic happened 12,000 years ago, and it would have certainly hit the global reset button so to speak. Now do a bit of reading for yourself instead of insulting people trying to answer your questions, you’re starting to sound like you may have an agenda to push...

Haha geez, asking for evidence to facts is me pushing an agenda? I'm a free thinking open minded individual who happened to come across this comment and it seemed crazy to me. I'm arguing only what I know to believe true and what I've researched previously as you all have. I just don't happen to believe in this conspiracy in particular. You and the others have clearly shown you've done research on the topic. But what's funny is you never showed anything we could actually discuss. You point to books and say there is the proof. How about quote something within these books that proves something? Photographic surveys of ocean floors? Pieces of art or tools or weapons from this area? Anything? That's my question. No agenda buddy.

Ok....What exactly do YOU believe then about our ancient history? You tell me what YOU'VE personally researched backed up with facts.

Great Pyramid of Giza...show me the facts that have been proven as to HOW it was built and the unbelievable amount of knowledge that has been derived from its actual dimensions.

Baalbek...give me facts as to how ancient man could have and better yet why would they have quarried such massive stones.

Gobekli Tepe...please, please, please explain to me how a group of hunter gathers were able to erect these magnificent ruins. Wait, not only erect them but to be able carve them in bas relief as well. While we're at it maybe you could explain all of the symbolism and apparent celestial knowledge that was carved into them as well. Oh yeah...this was all done about 6000 years BEFORE Stonehenge.

Go google those images and get back to me. That's YOUR evidence right there.

Why is it outlandish to think that they may have been an advanced civilization? I have no evidence or anything to support my claim just theory but take a minute and think about it. We say there couldn’t have been and we assume that all areas of the world had a similar tech level but even just looking at today’s world we know it is far from equal. Compare America to Africa. Huge levels of technological variance so why can we see this now but not 12000 years ago?

Maybe outlandish was the wrong word to use, but just assuming they were a technologically advanced civilization without any evidence can be problematic and also turn the uninitiated away from the discussion.

What is so outlandish about those claims? If you had looked into any of the extensive texts that have been written on Atlantis, you would know that there were likely three cataclysms that destroyed the continent over tens of thousands of years. The cataclysm to which Plato refers is only the final one.

My interpretation is that Plato was largely correct and relaying a true story, as he clearly stated himself. I am inclined to believe one of the most intelligent, honest, and moral figures in world history.

If a meteor hit the Earth, as the Younger-Dryas theory proposes, an entire continent could definitely disappear overnight. Keep in mind, modern civilization has only existed for the blink of an eye relative to our Earth's history. Thus, it is entirely conceivable that a massive earthquake (e.g. Yellowstone "supervolcano" eruption) could wipe out an entire island in a very short time. Just because it's not recorded

Additionally, Plato's account is hardly the "only real proof" of Atlantis. There is a wealth of evidence documented by Robert Stacy-Judd, Lewis Spence, Edgar Cayce and the A.R.E., Ignatius Donnelly, and many others.

Perhaps you should actually do the research before discounting what is objectively a strong theory.

Claim 2: this land was sunk "overnight" by earthquakes.

how is this outlandish? and how is it contradicted by point 1?

Liquefaction does indeed happen.

outlandish claims personally regarded as facts and then claiming the elite are hiding them from you.

Just gonna throw it out there that the pyramids are still extremely guarded. There are certain "elites" that know more than they reveal as they have had access to portions of the site that are off limits to the public. it's not an unprecedented notion.

Serious question: Who are the elite and why are they hiding Atlantis from us?

Depends on who you ask, but i believe there have been discoveries by ancient civilizations that those in power would keep secret.

Perhaps the unlocking of astral projection, maybe leaving our physical bodies can be done? Maybe the pyramids were a resonating chamber designed to levitate large objects through sound? Who knows

When/how did those in power acquire the ancient knowledge? What is the evidence that this group is hiding this knowledge? Are there some generally accepted clues about this?

It's in the Book of Secrets man. Do you even movie watch bro?

Every time I try to watch a movie I fall asleep after about 20 minutes.

Is this the Illuminati at work or is it just the fluorine that is interfering with my ability to find the book???

It's a wicked combo of the three......

Yeah the main points are gobeki tepi and the precipitation induced weathering on the sphinx. If you really want to dive into this one watch the Joe rogans with graham hancock, john anthony west, Robert schock

pyramids are older than common knowledge? maybe. resonating chamber? LOL

Pyramids were mostly likely build by the pre-deluge human civilization

That's "pre-flood" for those who, like me, didn't know what deluge meant. So before 12,800 BC, which I agree with.

Well it was more than just floods. The floods were just an aftereffect of the asteroids impacts.

Oh yeah, definitely. I was just simplifying.

The elite have control of time or in other words have the exact information as to the matter of time itself. For a while many people believed the earth is 6000 years old. Ha!

Isn't time just a function of the warping of space-fabric due to mass/energy? Or technically, I guess, isn't "time" just our inability to perceive the 4th dimension?

I love you.

Isn't time just a human construct?

Atlantis disappearing at the end of the Younger Dryas by a flood covering the whole earth in 9500 B.B. or there abouts puts the whole known length of christianity into question, with Judaism close on the heels. If you funnel your money from these organizations and they also keep the mass of your society in submission, you have a good system in place.

My theory, which builds off of Phantom Time Hypothesis, is that the ones in charge are the people in charge of the three major Abrahamic religions.

Each one controls a treasure trove of hidden information: The Christians have the Vatican, the Jews have the Smithsonian, and the Muslims have the Cradle of Civilization. These religions were created a handful of centuries ago in order to control people, and once they overthrew the previous order and established a new rule, they began manipulating history and waging wars to give themselves more and more power. They also appear to fight amongst each other at times, though, so all may not be well at the top.

The current historical narrative has only been around for a few hundred years at most, and even to this day they are continuing to rewrite it to suit their needs on a regular basis. I really couldn't say what their motivations are in trying to subjugate an entire planet, but I have difficulty imagining it could be anything benevolent.

r/culturallayer is a very interesting sub dedicated to this sort of stuff.

If you wanna talk about the "elite" who hide things from us, it's quite easy to see from a logical perspective.

I think most of the folks responsible for hiding information are academics who have done research and written textbooks. Last thing you want, once you've got a textbook out there, is some new information that makes your research and book wrong or outdated. Look at the aging of the Sphinx, for example. Seems to show erosion from water, which is odd because Egypt has been a desert for all of recorded civilization. So we just reject this because the guys who have textbooks in circulation want to keep those textbooks in circulation, and since they wrote the textbooks, their the experts or the "elite".

The money train from textbooks, every year a new revised edition, is just ludicrous and if your textbook says human civilization is 9000 years old, dammit, it's gonna be 9000 years old until you die. And it's big club of these information purveyors, and you ain't in it.

But wouldn't new information be cause for a new edition, and thus more sales? Wouldn't it be worse for the textbook company to hide new developments? Otherwise, why would you ever need to buy a new book?

New information that doesn't contradict the basic premise. You discover a new room under the Great Pyramid, call it a tomb and you've got a new edition of the same book with the same underlying theories. A new element? Ding, ding! Quantum mechanics doesn't overtly challenge Newtonian physics (not my comfort zone, please correct me here if needed).

Say you wrote The Book on ancient Egypt. You certainly have information about the origin, construction and purpose of the pyramids, the Sphinx and other structures and the people who built them. All of that can be wiped out by the discovery that those structures are much older. The mere suggestion of that is treated as lunacy, and I think it's entirely the instinct of self preservation at work. It's not just money at stake, but reputation. What's an academic without their mighty reputation?

I would bet that whoever wrote the books used in a class on ancient Egypt at Harvard, Oxford, your prestigious universities, is considered one of the preeminent experts in that field of history. To make a statement, even one backed by scientific observation, that contradicts their book is tantamount to heresy.

Aren't those professors hired by prestigious research universities specifically in order to discover and publish? These kinds of groundbreaking discoveries are what those guys and institutions live for, right?

And yes, Newtonian mechanics breaks down at the quantum level, which is why Professors Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, etc. published and sold so many books containing his groundbreaking discoveries in Quantum Theory.

In fact there were many technologically advanced civilizations that have been hidden from us by the elite.

What is the single best piece of evidence you can cite to support this claim?

Pyramids do not make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fS9ixfQ_no

How about the numerous Ancient cities all over the World buried under what are now Oceans? There are some off the coast of the Caribbean, Egypt, India, etc..

Evidence?

Atlantis has been completely hidden from us by the global elite just like giant skeletons as well. Strangely enough I was at the supermarket today and walked by an expensive parked car with an old man sitting inside. He was actually talking on the phone to someone about Giant Skeletons and how they have been found all over the world.

Atlantis has been completely hidden from us by the global elite just like giant skeletons as well.

Why do you believe this? What is your evidence?

If it weren't for Atlantis, I wouldn't be on a conspiracy forum today. It was atlantis that led me down this path. I loved the story. I think they know more about Atlantis then we'll ever know. I think Atlantis is the forbidden secret. I think it is the root of a lot of things. Even weapons experimentation and UFOs. It's an interesting story.

Same! I think a lot of us can probably relate.

I absolutely devoured everything I could about Atlantis as a kid. And the Bermuda Triangle.

Those two led me to UFOs and I never looked back.

What would you say are the biggest conspiracies you have learned about since then?

A family member told me they saw UFOs in the bermuda triangle area when in the Navy... "Going in and out of the water like they were playing with each other".

yeah i bet family members tell a lot of things to kids....

Do you believe it is possible that the entire tale of 'Atlantis' is a fabrication?

Have you looked into the stories of Lemuria? I think Plato called it "Mu". Its possible that Atlantis had knowledge of nuclear weapons which could explain the ancient blast location in Kashmir.

I watched some documentary or something on the Kashmir blast, totally seems like a nuclear detonation!

After the first atomic tests in New Mexico a strange and previously unknown kind of green glass was found at the blast site that had actually been created by the incredibly intense heat that the explosion created. Hotter than anything imaginable up to that point.

That strange new glass wasn't unknown to many geologists, however, although how and why it existed was something they hadn't managed to figure out from any of the identical samples that had been found in over 50 out of the way places around the globe where no atomic testing or explosions have ever occurred as far as anyone knows.

The most obvious but never admitted conclusion was that a nuclear war was fought in some prehistoric past on our planet which would also mean that some civilizations advanced enough to create atomic weapons would also have had to exist that far back as well.

There is a lot of history coverup. Pretty fascinating. New discoveries of people in america before the accepted timeline are ridiculed and not published.

There was also the mummified remains of ancient Caucasians that were found in a cave in China that predated the arrival of any Orientals in that region by at least a thousand years or more. Why they were there and where they came from is anyone's guess but there's enough anomalies that point to a global trading network of some kind that existed long before our own history as we know it started.

Do you have a source on this? Sounds interesting.

Here's a couple of references for starters...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-White-Tribes-of-Ancient-China

Thank you!

Do you remember the name of that? Never heard about it and would love to

Dont remember, it was either discovery chanel or youtube.

Atlantis is a Frequency that connects al. from trees to ants to humans. The Pharaos know What Atlantis is not where. There is no where. Just what. RA / DIO. The clues were left behind in brand names long ago. RA the black sun god tell you that everything is at least a RA then DIO connection SUN to God then universe then loads back the whole universe using a new frequency. The Hyeroglyphics were an even more evil alphabet that you can think of. Just people with their faces hidden stuck in one position. Then fast forward to now and look at the colors of the most popular brands and historical gflags. Who has Yellow and red as their logo? ( Sun hits blood then you go on forever)

Check out the anime nadia: the secret of blue water. Disney totally ripped atlantis off from it, kinda how they stole the lion king from kimba:the white lion. Btw i hate disney

To everyone wanting evidence of Atlantis, please read the book Cataclysm:Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C by D S Allan and J B Delair. It presents a mountain of geological, cosmological and mythological evidence that will show almost beyond a doubt that Atlantis was real and was destroyed by some sort of Earth-changing event.

Perhaps some sort of cataclysmic flood or something that’s referred to by hundreds of completely different and geographically isolated cultures around the world?

Yes, awesome book! You may also enjoy 1) Atlantis: Mother of Empires by Robert Stacy-Judd; 2) Edgar Cayce's Atlantis published by the A.R.E.; 3) History of Atlantis by Lewis Spence; 4) Occult Sciences in Atlantis by Lewis Spence.

Can you give one example of the evidence these guys provide?

Read the book dummy

Booooooooooooo

I wrote up a book review of it last year which can be found here

Examples of evidence are; geological samples over the ages of mountain ranges, sea floors; plant and animals life that on both sides of the Atlantic that could not have made the journey across the ocean; erratic boulders with different magnetic orientation to their surroundings; deposited remains of mega fauna that suggest massive eradication at one point in time. That's just off the top of my head. It's also not including the volume of historical testimonies from cultures in the Americas, Europe and Africa.

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Forgotten Civilization by Robert Schoch is another great book on the subject, although not necessarily about Atlantis. He makes a good case for solar activity being the cause for whatever happened around 9500 BC.

Thanks for the suggestion :), will definitely track it down.

To be fair though, Plato wasn't describing what he thought was a real place. He was only using a thought experiment, and even then nothing like what we think of as Atlantis is in any of his writing.

In his works Timaeus and Critias it's presented as a shitty island nation with a shitty navy that gets defeated by a more powerful Athenian state. It was a thought experiment. He didn't talk "about an advanced civilization in the Atlantic that helped bring knowledge and culture to civilizations such as Egypt and Greece."

Plato was drawing on traditions and myths of islands that submerged beneath the oceans, but he never talked about their supposed advanced civilization.

Clearly, you have not read the Timaeus and Critias because your summary is way off base. Plato specifically said he was relaying an actual account passed down to him from Solon, who heard the story from an Egyptian priest in Sais.

Additionally, it is clear that Plato had great respect for Atlantic civilization. However, his account states that they became a militaristic, imperialist society, which lead to their downfall. A cautionary tale that could not be more relevant.

Who did the translation of your version of Plato's writings?

Why don't you PROVIDE sources instead of attacking other people's?

Who is attacking anybody? I asked a simple, single-sentence question.

Anybody's sources. I didn't say you attacked people.

And I can guarantee that regardless of which version they have, I can guess your follow-up question almost word for word. Are you actually trying to foment discussion on Atlantis, or on sourcing?

I mean, the Canary Islands and the Basque alone are interesting enough for there to be some plausibility to remnants of an Atlantic island hitting into Europe and possibly North America.

Are you actually trying to foment discussion on Atlantis, or on sourcing?

Plato is supposed to be a source for the claims pertaining to Atlantis.

Terrific.

Now let's scrutinise this source. Let's see if it checks out.

No need for any knickers to be in a twist.

But why ask your "simple" opening question if you are always going to have the same follow-up? You may as well just say the source is crap and the idea is crap. End of story.

you are always

How do we know? Maybe this person has indeed taken the time to check their sources before believing them.

How do we know?

Yes, I am sure the person analyzed their source versus the original vellum. That's the only thing that would satisfy you. And even those are fake, according to you.

Ya know, you could just say "the original source says something different".

Also, who says the person "believes" anything? This is called speculation. If people speculate that the east coast of the U.S. is the partial remains of Atlantis, there's the ability to do that without personal investment or total seriousness.

No need for any knickers to be in a twist.

I WOULD like to see several hundred less of your all too similar comments. But I'm not angry about it.

If you were thought-provoking in any manner, it would be a different story.

But I'm not angry about it.

You seem pretty angry.

This is a perfectly natural first step.

The red pill shatters much-loved illusions.

While I too appreciate good sourcing, you are being super condescending in your tone. Not helpful for anyone.

We need more tone police.

The jerk store called.

You seem pretty angry.

Nope, you seem pretty wasteful of people's time, that's my issue.
I don't "love" any illusions, and your website certainly doesn't tell me anything I didn't know.

The brilliant Lewis Spence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Spence

Cool, which original materials was he translating from?

For the "Timaeus", the translations of Jowett ("The Dialogues of Plato"), and R.D. Archer-Hind. For the "Critias", Abbe Jolibois ("Dissertation sur l'Atlandide", and P. Negris ("La question de l'Atlantis de Platon").

As per Spence, "I have taken all due care to avoid doing violence in any way to the original, which in the following pages, is not rendered in its entirety, though very nearly so, no fact of importance having been omitted."

Lewis Spence was one of the greatest scholars of his time. His reputation is impeccable. Even skeptics respect his work. Thus, his credibility is beyond reproach to me.

Lewis Spence was one of the greatest scholars of his time.

He seems like quite an authority.

Worthy of an appeal to authority, it would seem.

Given that Jowett is only a recent translator, did you take the time to find out what Jowett's source material is/was?

Yes, and so was Jowett, who spent 30 years working on his translation of The Republic alone.

IIRC, Jowett translated them mainly from late Egyptian papyri, and Byzantine manuscripts from from the 9th-13th century A.D.

Why do you ask?

Jowett translated them mainly from late Egyptian papyri, and Byzantine manuscripts from from the 9th-13th century A.D.

Cool, how can we check his source material for ourselves?

Or are we supposed to just trust him?

Well, I suppose we could travel back in time and stop the Romans from sacking and burning the library of Alexandria.

There are around 250 manuscripts of Plato that still survive, from various sources, IIRC. Seems unlikely that the Egyptians or Byzantines just made him up.

Frankly, it seem unreasonable to expect the original documents he wrote to survive 2,400 years. However, there is plenty of documentation regarding his life that has been passed down and documented through the ages.

Besides, to play devil's advocate, even if his works were written by someone else, or a group writing under a pseudonym (a la the "Shakespeare" plays), would it make "The Allegory of the Cave" any less insightful or valuable?

There are around 250 manuscripts of Plato that still survive, from various sources, IIRC.

How many have you checked for yourself?

Let's be honest: not even one.

I used to believe in 'ancient history'.

Until I took the time to actually check the sources.

What I discovered shook me to the core of my miserable soul.

Actually, I have looked at scanned copies of some of his manuscripts online, which were written in Koine Greek.

I always check my sources, and am very careful about what sources I trust.

Again, even if the work attributed to Plato were written by someone else, would it make "The Allegory of the Cave", or any of his other great works, any less insightful or valuable?

Studying the work of great initiates like Plato, Pythagoras, and Jesus may make your soul a little less miserable ; )

I agree that there is value in the content of these texts, even if they are not as ancient as is claimed.

But this is a big deal: 'ancient history', as we are taught it, is a fabrication.

This becomes apparent to anybody who understands primary source research methodology.

Most users of this sub will never take the time to look into the sources of 'ancient history'.

Those who do will see that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than most of us could have imagined.

I respect your opinion, but it is objectively unreasonable to expect primary sources to survive thousands of years through various wars, purges, fires, natural disasters, etc.

Ancient history is right there in front of us: the Sphinx, the Pyramids, Nan Madol, Puma Punku, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Mohenjo Daro, Piedras Negras, etc.

it is objectively unreasonable to expect primary sources to survive thousands of years through various wars, purges, fires, natural disasters, etc.

Which makes the entire field of 'ancient history' questionable from the start, doesn't it?

Ancient history is right there in front of us: the Sphinx, the Pyramids, Nan Madol, Puma Punku, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Mohenjo Daro, Piedras Negras, etc.

Each of which generates considerable tourism dollars, yes?

Oh, but you can't fake these monuments, right?

Wrong.

It doesn't make it questionable at all. There are plenty of sources documenting ancient history (Josephus, Homer, Diodorus Siculus, Plutarch, the Cistercian monks, etc.).

Actually, most of those sites are so remote that they generate almost no tourism dollars. Nan Madol is in Micronesia, and Puma Punku is in a remote part of Bolivia, for instance.

And even if some of them do generate some tourism dollars, that doesn't make them illegitimate. Frankly, the article you posted proves absolutely nothing. I mean, no one confuses the Luxor casino with the actual Giza plateau.

There are plenty of sources documenting ancient history

But they are also recent 'translations', aren't they?

As in, 'ancient history' has no actual primary sources.

Do you not see the issue here?

No, I don't see the issue at all.

Again, it is objectively unreasonable to expect original papyrus scrolls to exist for thousands of years. Especially when the largest repository of ancient knowledge in history, the library of Alexandria, was destroyed over a thousand years ago.

Besides, there are plenty of primary sources from Sumerian cuneiform tablets, Egyptian hieroglyphics, Nag Hammadi gospels, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. that still exist from ancient times.

No offense, but your theory doesn't seem to hold water.

He is also ignoring that we have found dead sea scrolls, we have found cuneiform tablets, we have collateral documents mentioning others texts and we have corroborating archaeological evidence that we put together to create an idea of what happened 1000s of years ago. No one claims this is a complete picture or a completely accurate picture and with new findings and technologies we can refine this picture.

But step2thejep doesn't much care about any of that. He is here to sell subscriptions to his website where he charges $20+/mo to subscribe to the words of the "world's greatest skeptic" (him, aka John Le Bon). He is trying to impress you with his wisdom so he can slip in a john le bonn link.

He does not believe in space, planets, stars, a round earth, missiles, wars, all of human history before his lifetime, atoms, molecules, gravity, evolution, dinosaurs, nukes, nuclear power plants, etc etc....

You cannot reasonably debate someone so willfully ignorant and so unwilling to consider other view points or ideas.

Whoa, thanks for the info! Can't believe people would pay money to subscribe to that site. We're in the wrong business ; )

I am curious how many people subscribe, he claims around 50 subscribers, don't know how many pay, but that is like 12K a year... not huge, but not bad for those deranged ramblings.

Whoa, I mean, one is too many, in my opinion!

There are plenty of people on here who have very strong convictions and often without really good evidence for it. Some of them even get a bit aggressive. Fine, to each their own.

But its the pushing content, and even worse, pretending like its not your own content is disingenuous and it bothers me. So step2thejep being condescending, arrogant, non contributory to discussion, ignorant etc is annoying, and he is particularly persistent and aggressive, but sure its what it is.

Trying to profit off others here? Not Okay.

Amen, brotha. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

He stopped posting after this. He literally got cyberbullied of reddit. hah what a dork.

I don't think that's what happened. He got called out on shilling his content, attacking other users, spreading anti-semetic and misogynist rhetoric and and not acting in good faith. No one went after anything about him other than that he was a dick to other users and was trying to sell his content.

You got bullied of Reddit. what a fucking dweeb hahhahahah.

cuck boy

Who did the translation of your version of Plato's writings?

Why don't you PROVIDE sources instead of attacking other people's?

Atlantis was an active civilization 32,000 years ago. They were more advanced than current generation, societally and technologically. they eventually became extinct after a global war which ended up in mass destruction. the earths crust got blown up which led to the slowing of earths spin and then boom, seasons were created.

But seasons are due to axial tilt; not rotational speed.

i was referring to the creation of seasons, not what makes the seasons change.

Yeah but the Earth's spin has nothing to do with seasons at all though...

I think a glancing blow by a heavenly body could knock the earth off kilter to form the seasons. An explosion would be difficult to cause it.

If they said it affected it's axis or it's orbit around the sun, I could understand that. But just slowing the earth's rotation isn't gonna do shit about seasons, that would just make for longer days.

The momentum required to measurably change the tilt of the Earth's axis of rotation in a single catastrophe would release enough energy to sterilize the planet. The Earth's tilt likely hasn't changed much in billions of years.

Correct, I am just saying that it being caused by an explosion is not probable and maybe impossible.

I'm saying the entire premise that the loss of Atlantis had anything to do with the creation of seasons is complete hogwash.

The axual tilt likely goes back to proto-planetary collisions long before the appearance of even simple life.

Atlantis was an active civilization 32,000 years ago.

What is your evidence?

We can only really, via this site, reference books or videos. Robert Schoch's and John Anthony West's work should speak for itself, putting the Sphinx weathering info pointing to an existence as far back as 10,000BC (this is what Schoch and West could get away with in the Egyptologist world, as far back as they were safely allowed to go where there hypothesis could be marginally entertained). West thinks that with what they were uncovering, the Sphinx could've been but here is a link for more information: https://www.robertschoch.com/sphinx.html

Robert Temple claims that the Sphinx is actually a monument of Anubis, based on the star Sirius.

the Sphinx weathering info

What is their method of calibration?

Erosion of rocks around the sphinx point to flowing water.

vivid, detailed picture you've drawn for us here.

The link above explains it all for you. Read it.

it really doesnt.

I mean it does. Sphinx used to be a lion the symbol for Leo as it faces the Leo constellation. The water/rain erosion shows that the sphinx dates back to before 3000BCE, potentially as far back as the last ice age so around 10,000BCE. The face of the sphinx is newer than the body, telling us the Egyptians rebuilt/changed the head of the sphinx to more resemble a dynastic Egyptian head.

Not sure. This page can give more technical info from a geology stance: http://www.robertschoch.net/Comments%20By%20Robert%20Schoch.htm

Plato placed it at 8000 years ago, which coincides with the sea level rise. Seems plausible.

He pull it out from his ass

They were more advanced than current generation, societally and technologically

I like to believe in ancient, undiscovered civilizations. After all, the Hittites were only confirmed in the 20th century and they ruled a huge empire. The large civilizations of the Amazon basin are in the process of being uncovered.

But technologically more advanced than us and 32000 years ago? That would leave undeniable traces.

Atlantis was an active civilization 32,000 years ago. They were more advanced than current generation, societally and technologically. they eventually became extinct after a global war which ended up in mass destruction.

Very possible. Extremely reasonable explanation for many historical anomalies.

the earths crust got blown up which led to the slowing of earths spin and then boom, seasons were created.

This part is nonsensical for many reasons. I'm not trying to be rude and I'm not being closed-minded. That's just not how stuff works, even hypothetically.

Colossal Underwater Pyramids Discovered Near Portugal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8zT2-J-VUI

Underwater Pyramid Japan https://www.google.com/search?q=underwater+pyramid+japan&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs78npk-HbAhWFyoMKHbbsCwMQsAQIJg&biw=1366&bih=635

Underwater CITY with PYRAMIDS near Cuba. Hidden by the lying Illuminati SMITHSONIAN. They say it was made by "Microbes". hahaha https://www.google.com/search?q=underwater+pyramids+cuba&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjto8T-k-HbAhWs5YMKHQ_HC_cQiR4I5wE&biw=1366&bih=635

Pyramids in Antarctica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5j7znrQg4

Some great books on Atlantis: 1) Atlantis: Mother of Empires by Robert Stacy-Judd; 2) Edgar Cayce's Atlantis published by the A.R.E.; 3) History of Atlantis by Lewis Spence; 4) Occult Sciences in Atlantis by Lewis Spence.

Atlantis did exist. You should read "The Secret of the Flower of Life." There's a free PDF online

Watch The Hidden Human History by Spirit Science on YouTube. Really good theory of Atlantis.

I totally wrote off Atlantis as fiction. I mean, an entire city just slipping off into the ocean.........

Then I saw a short news piece about half of Port Royal slipping off into the ocean over the span of about 6 hours.

The older I get the more I open my mind to what I once thought impossible.

With a 400 ft ride in sea levels after the ice age, it is not a surprise that a whole island city could vanish under the ocean. Seeing as a 15ft rise would make the state of Florida disappear (along with many other big coastal cities).

If you relate things you will see a lot of movies have the same idea scheme
A lost city with different people that uses a special material to activate/use their technology. Just like Agartha myths, just like Black Panther movie (also has Agartha references)

Atlantis was real. There was a congressman that joined Congress specifically to look at the library of congress for information about Atlantis. His name is Ignatius Donnelly and he wrote a book about it too. You can bet the government does know about Atlantis.

The funny part is its gonna happen again. That's why they build those DUMBs in the mountains for themselves. Personally I believe it is Sun Cycles / pole shift related which happens regularly and its gonna happen again (that's the real elite secret, and why they treat average people like shit...They think you are already dead meat).

They need to bring along some dead meat, or they won't have anyone to do their work. They will die of incompetence of how to manufacture.

I'm not opposed to the idea that there once was a civilization that equalled or exceeded us in technology. It doesn't take long for evidence of a defunct civilization to be covered up by water, silt, mud, lava, and remains of carbon-based lifeforms. Mass extinction events more than likely caused mankind to start all over again at least a few times.

It's in the Pegasus galaxy.

I like the theory that the black sea anti diluvian danube valley civilization were the atlanteans.

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What I find most interesting about Plato's Atlantis stories is Ancient Athenian society. This pre-universal flood society strived for , and seemingly archieved, communal perfection. Then maintained a stable number of inhabitants, no more than necessary to live peacefully from their land and to be ready for war to defend themselves, which they actually did, against the Atlantis empire no less. I just wish someday the missing dialogues get found.

Atlantis existed. There is no doubt about it. Read Ignatius Donnelly's book...http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ataw/index.htm

James Churchward wrote about Mu, the pacific ocean civilization that pre-dated Atlantis....http://www.bahaistudies.net/asma/Col-James-Churchward-The-Sacred-Symbols-of-Mu.pdf

The history of the world is not how the adherents of Science-ism portray it. It is far more complex, goes back far longer than we are told and it doesn't start with us climbing down from the trees in fucking Africa!

I think atlantis and Antarctica are deeply connected, flooded then frozen kind of dealio. Lots of cool info coming from Corey Goode, Emery Smith and David Wilcock on the topic.

Check it out

Yugioh also talks about this. There's an episode where the Pharaoh (Yugi) meets Dartz (from Atlantis) and Dartz says that Yugi's powers are 5k old, but his are 10k old so he's much more powerful - something like that. There's also the Leviathan (evil force who came from space/meteorite) who brainwashes Dartz and brainwashed Atlantis' civilization to do evil and kill humanity.

My theory is that, in the epoc of tribal time. before Incas, before greece, china. There was the primitive man. A very large and very organised violation, the first city. Or what i think, the city that was built after the first nomads having wandered around figured the offering of primitive cities were limiting their creative side since early tribal living was even more religiously and dictator like. Basically, they got together and started the first modern city with knowledge of irrigation, domestication, buildings, building first society for the smart humans.

But they ran into a problem, we know all ancient empires ran into. Rise of inequality, rise of delinquency and fall of that way of life for the people to break up and start again elsewhere. I like the Tower of babel in the bible story.

Why? Because what has pyramids did? It gathered nomads, free roaming hunters gatherers, because those structures could be seen for miles. A structure like that will get attention of people, and man power is needed to build a society. So the first one would have been that tower, one massive (for the time) tower where all the primitive men gathered. And they learned one tongue. Maybe Atlantis was the second such major civilisation. Because we know empires fall, cities fall. Coherent civilised way to teach independent violent hunter gatherer to live in society with all its problems was difficult at first. This atlatis I bet was no doubt one of such primitive hubs. But it had fallen like all others fell. Until enough smart families, and we know intelligence was handed down passed n through blood and wealth of rulers, kings, and religious monarchs.

So when Atlantis was just one of such ancient societies that fell, but this one was one of the most advanced, knowledge of primitive maths, and construction, and mining, and alchemy(science of physics and chemistry at the time). But power means rulers and rulers means wars.

So was probably forces the smart of the early humans to hide somewhere far, try to build smart first city. They failed. But from that societies like tower of babel spread humanity far and wide, and forged early cultures. With different religious upbringing to teach early primitive stupid brutal man, to live civilised way in a modern society.

It took us a while, and even now because so much war and civil falls of empires has lost so much history, perhaps much of it wa hidden, much of it, like vatican style religious libraries were built and burnt. But it wasn't until well organised well built permanent keeping of rock buildings like Greece like Egypt, that written history was kept long enough to benefit man hundreds of years, being taught from faults of the past.

Personally, I believe civilization was widespread that had high technology (not entirely comparable to what we have currently developed but sophisticated) and the last Ice Age ended in a manner that cause us to basically forget it. I just don't buy the mainstream stonework arguments or the commonly postulated pre-historic migration patterns.

Hancock, Carlson, Bauval, Schoch, Brien Forester pose some really interesting ideas. A lot of what they throw out there is not necessarily 100% proof of anything and I understand why people stay away because of the alien craziness, but it's a completely reasonable concept in my view that there was something going on in the past and many of our mythologies and religious texts are echoes of forgotten times.

The somewhat baseless ideas that I feel drawn to:

1. The Atlantean culture Plato referenced and that was passed down through Egyptian knowledge keepers extended from South America to Rapa Nui, even as far as New Zealand. They were sea farers and the home base was in modern South America. In the context of the greater globe, considering what wasn't frozen, that's the landmass the size of Libya (Ancient context) sitting right smack dab in the Atlantic (What they deemed as the entire greater ocean, so what we look at as all oceans outside the Mediterranean)
2. India was another pre-deluge hub and depending on how you view their historical text, there's a possibility they had flying devices.
   
3. Ancient culture may have gone to the moon. People look too far into Martian rock formations and whatnot but the reason why I think we don't go back and why the original astronauts looked so dejected upon their return wasn't space travel haze or because it was a hoax. They got there and realized they weren't the first.
   

Again, it's more my personal beliefs but I think there really is something more than what was suppose happened in the ancient past.

Sorry for being so late to this thread. If you would like to see Atlantis, it didn't sink. Destroyed yes but not sunk. It's been out in the open this whole time. If you go to google earth and search for the "eye of sahara" you can see what's left. https://earth.google.com/web/@20.65860792,-12.92937519,448.54206632a,629269.59460147d,35y,-0.00000001h,37.35298443t,-0r

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Read a book called Cataclysm: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C by D S Allan and J B Delair. The contains a mountain of hard evidence pointing to the very probable existence of a global civilisation and an event that destroyed it. It's nothing but hard, referenced and verifiable science.

You want him to write a research paper? Read 'Atlantis: The Antediluvian World' by Ignatius Donnelly, 'Atlantis Discovered' by Lewis Spence and 'The Secret of Atlantis', by Otto Muck. These 3 pieces of literature seem the most sound as to actually lrove the case that Atlantis existed as an advanced society.

What's outlandish about citing Plato's detailed account of an advanced civilization in Atlantis. Check out the Timaeus and Critias. It's all in there. Lemuria/Mu would be another lost civilization that has been hidden.

outlandish claims personally regarded as facts and then claiming the elite are hiding them from you.

Just gonna throw it out there that the pyramids are still extremely guarded. There are certain "elites" that know more than they reveal as they have had access to portions of the site that are off limits to the public. it's not an unprecedented notion.

Well it was more than just floods. The floods were just an aftereffect of the asteroids impacts.

The jerk store called.