[Serious] Question for anyone that typically disagrees with Tucker Carlson.

1  2018-06-22 by DontTreadOnMe16

Ok, so my question is for anyone who typically disagrees with or dislikes Tucker Carlson. I’m interested in hearing someone debunk/call bull shit on absolutely any aspect of this YouTube clip from one of his recent shows. What part of this would be considered “typical Fox propaganda”, etc.?

As someone who tries to remain unbiased (or at least always recognize my biases), and as someone who HATES the MSM, including Fox, I’m finding myself agreeing with a lot of the arguments made in this video. Please help me avoid any biases by highlighting anything that might be misleading or “fake news”.

I’d really like this to be a productive discussion, because I think the points raised in the video, combined with any legitimate rebuttals to those points, can make for a very interesting and useful discussion for everyone involved.

Serious/polite/respectful response only, please. Let’s have a real discussion.

85 comments

You can't cuck the tuck

-I'll show myself out

Buffalo Bill disagrees with that.

‘It is wrong, blasphemous, and sinful for you to suggest, imply, or help other people come to the conclusion that the U.S. government killed 3,000 of its own citizens.’ –Tucker Carlson v. David Ray Griffin, August 9, 2006

That was 12 years ago. He may have changed his mind since then.

He's on TV a lot. There's nothing stopping him from putting out 9-11 information. After all, Donald Trump once said that the whole thing looked suspicious.

If now is not the perfect time for 9-11 truth to blow wide open, when would be?

Sure he probably has, and he probably has a lot of good takes. But the mere fact is that he used to be a neoliberal mouthpiece on MSNBC and now hes a mouthpiece on fox. He doesn't stand for anything, he just perpetuates rhetoric of any group that will listen and keep him on television. I don't totally blame him, hes subject to the restrictions of his company. But at the end of the day, if you have that platform, and you don't elect to risk your personal comfort and your cushy job to expose the truth about things like 9/11 and the war on terror, then you're just a mouthpiece, same as the rest. He doesn't have to do it on TV, his platform affords him tons of followers on social media etc where he could get the message out there...but he doesn't, because hes not willing to stand up for justice.

So regardless of this take, how he feels now, or how honest and accurate some of his newer takes are...hes still just a mouthpiece for empire.

Could you please give me the time stamp for when this is mentioned in the video?

Just Google the quote...tons of videos with the clip

Strange you said you wanted an honest discussion yet you stopped responding so quickly.

I understand your point on that subject, but that doesn’t take away from his message here on this subject.

Are you ok with how this country is turning into utter chaos? With people unable or unwilling to be civil to one another? With the media fueling this chaos at every turn?

You have a mean eye when it comes to seperating the message from the messenger. Admirable!

I would love to be proven wrong somehow, but I have arrived at the most unenviable vantage whereby I see the ultimate problem as being what I can only characterize as the ultimate betrayal of God, that being our circumvention of natural selection. I fear our collective DNA has been opened beyond repair, barring some horrific era of anarchy. We seem to collectively know that this is our only salvation.

When I've watched him, I agree as I'm watching, but, after, I always feel lied to. He seems to put spin on his facts.

I kinda get that exact same feeling too, but I’m having trouble finding examples of that in this video. I’ve watched it 3 times now attempting to do so.

Do you have any examples from this video where he’s doing that?

I might tomorrow. Illl try to remember. Idk how to call bots.

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Maybe we can have the mods tag this as NO META.

I saw the clip earlier, and I’m in agreement with the points raised.

I’d really like to start being able to implement a [Serious] tag for posts. Would need mod support to make it work, but I think it could be very beneficial to this sub.

u/aleister, anyway we can make this happen for this post?

Sure.

Yes. We could try doing it as a [NO-META] post.

That’s awesome. Thanks!

Thank you!

I doubt the idea of SERIOUS VS NON-SERIOUS would do anything except increase the number of meta shitposts here.

Just my opinion.

Very true. But that seems like something that could be easily fixed with mod support though, no?

Um, no. I don't think so.

This is forum attracts the more, shall we say, paranoid style of user?

Not trying to insult here.

If one post about the Rothschilds is labelled as NOT-SERIOUS, and then a post about Gaza is labelled SERIOUS, then imagine the 3-5 threads about the classification and 1984 but no it's really Brave New World that would follow.

Nevermind the shot that would go down when the satanism clowns get their threads classified.

I’m saying users self-tag the post Serious or not. But I totally see what you’re saying, and I’m sure it will definitely cause an issue or two down the line, but I think it’s still worth giving it a shot.

It’s not hard to know if something is off-topic/sarcastic/uncivil or not. Considering modlogs are public, I think the community would be able to self judge.

NO META.

question. what does that mean?

No attacking the post, OP, etc. stay on topic. Answer the questions the OP has asked.

wait, I'm not attacking the OP and I am asking a question.

j/k....thanks, got it

LOL. I had to go back and reread my response. Sorry. I could have at least written full sentences. That's what I get for trying to do two things at once.

The question is how did we get here, That's not complicated either. Over the past couple of days Trump administration officials have been compared to Adolph Hitler and the Nazis dozens of times on CNN and MSNBC. What's the effect of that? Think about it for a second. If you really believed Nazis were taking power in your country, what would you do? What wouldn't you do?

Those crocodile tears are painful and hilarious.

Could you explain what you mean a little more? I don’t understand your use of the term crocodile tears here, nor do I understand the purpose of the quote mentioned in your edit.

Sorry, Maddow's tears.

Serious/polite/respectful response only, please. Let’s have a real discussion.

Same sentiment, no?

Ohhhh I see now.

Agreed and agreed, lol.

Serious question are you willing to engage in conversation because there are huge issues with that clip however in my experience few people really want to understand and would rather people just agree with them.

I wouldn’t have created this post if I weren’t. I’d truly love to get some input from anyone willing to be civil and take his seriously. My mind is wide open, and still formulating my ideals with each day. I certainly lean right but I’m still on the fence for many different issues.

Awesome first let's look at the claim that the policy of separation was used by the last administration. Every watchdog group and fact checker says no. Human rights and immigration protection groups say no. Until recently fox news claimed Obama was super lenient and just let everyone in the country. Now they have this claim that no no conservative group will support. Strange no?

Ok, so first of all, I’ll admit right now that I don’t really recognize appealing to watchdog groups and “fact checkers”, or any authority organizations as proof for things. I prefer to use direct, preferably primary sources for claims, rather than just listen to someone else’s summation of sources. In a time where many organizations have a heavy slant to the left or right, I feel like it’s best for everyone to avoid appealing to authorities in order to make arguments.

Second, so are you saying Obama did enforce the laws, and wasn’t very lenient? I’m not really sure what you’re arguing here. I think it would be fair to say that Trump didn’t enact any new laws here, just decided to actually start enforcing (albeit maybe unnecessarily strictly) the laws that were already put on the books by presidents before him. Yes?

I am on my phone but you can Google Trump administration fourteen different answers and find it. Now I am bothered right off the back with your issue with watchdog groups and fact checkers. Any one worth their salt cite their evidence and respond to questions and even post rebuttals if any are made. As far as bias we all have bias it's just life. The best defense from bias is multiple people and points all well documented and do your own research. One great source is lawyer's. They are flocking to take up these cases. Just like the travel ban they enacted earlier and said was perfectly legal. Lawyer's don't chase lost causes too often they like to get paid.

My point about Obama was they're claiming both not that I am claiming this is true. I would say the evidence suggests they were as hard as the prior administration but tried to put a nice face on the thing. The immigration policy is screwed up bad.

Just to get an idea, what’s your opinion of like Snopes? Or Politofact?

Also, I agree about the lawyer thing. It’s pretty much the only/best reason for why I ever watch Ben Shapiro’s daily show. He’s obviously super conservative, but his point of view from a Harvard Law graduate that is not a Trump supporter, and is a Jewish religious conservative, you get a pretty interesting, rather straight forward perspective of the daily media hysteria.

So the video of the different positions the white house is here. I like politofact more than snope but both generally fulfill my requirement of citing their sources and allowing for rebuttal and counter arguments. Yes both are liberally biased, that should never be enough to ignore any source. I myself look for many sources and many conservatives have been good sources at times.

There is a large amount of information about the present administration rolled out a new zero tolerance policy you can look at these sites for a very in depth study.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/family-separation-and-zero-tolerance-policies-rolled-out-stem-unwanted-migrants-may-face
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/what-you-need-to-know-immigrant-family-detention/

Take some time to realize that right wing media has been acting as a propaganda machine, it started with talk radio but has moved Fox news from a conservative leaning news station to something rather ugly as of late. Sinclair news stations have been exposed for their propaganda as of late, and if you have the time you should watch how talk radio floats concepts in the morning that are picked up and repeated 24 hours on Fox news. The latest example is linking the immigration children fiasco to abortion rights.

Let's also focus on the fact this administration has lied repeatedly about this issue there is a video showing the administration used fourteen different answers to the question about separation of children at.the border. Where was this story then. Seems like an easy answer to say they are continuing a policy of the last administration.

Very interesting, I haven’t seen that before. Could you please link that video for me?

Ive grown to respect this guy. Not perfect, but better than any other choice.

Tucker Carlson aside from his permanently constipated look of consternation may not believe any of of the shit he spews, but he is very much part of the Fox echo chamber amplification infrastructure.

The series of arguments aims to to: 1) Deflect any responsibility for the current situation. (Democrats and Obamas created illegal immigration problems and these policies.) 2)It then frames the administration's actions as simply a reaction to a dilemma it was forced to solve with "effective" means. (Trump & Co had no choice but to enforce the law of the land) 3) It then frames the response of the opposing media as melodramatic, irrational, hysterical and manufactured. (Many people even ones with generally low empathy, myself included, had visceral reactions to children being forcibly separated from their parents.) 4) Then it shows the polite officers of the regime being harassed and heckled by the public when they should be able to enjoy their meals in peace. (There is very little real recourse for anyone truly dissatisfied with the current state of affairs. Write to congress? Send an angry tweet? Down vote shit on Reddit? So they go to relatively extreme measures by shouting at a public official while they hide behind large armed men who are being paid with taxpayer dollars.) 5) Then he frames the projected potential future actions of these "left wing extremists" who think it's ok to call someone a Nazi which will lead to punching Nazis which will lead to a purge of a whole group of people who are wrongfully accused Nazis.

Deflect, defend, reframe, exaggerate, project.

Let's say I punched you in the face for no reason and when the cops show up I say.

Look this guy's been punched before, others have punched him. Besides the last guy who punched him said if I ever see this guy, I've gotta punch him. Look how angry he got he wanted to punch me back. See how many times he tried to punch me back. In the future he could punch me anytime that's why he should be punched now.

Perhaps you're right and I can't debunk any aspect of the clip. But I can debunk the fiction that the ruling administration isn't willfully tearing apart the republic. Their media mouthpiece is attempting to establish a moral high ground because supporting clearly heinous acts designed to pander to an uninformed, maligned and ignorant base makes a few people upset.

I'd like to meet anyone who typically agrees or likes Tucker Carlson and take them down to a Wal-Mart for a staycation.

Someone give this guy reddit gold

Don't give Reddit money

Well I appreciate your input, regardless. We definitely disagree on a lot of points mentioned here, and you kinda lost me towards the middle there, but I can at least see where you’re coming from.

I’d make the argument that it seems like a lot of your opinions about Tucker/this immigrant situation in general are very emotionally based, and emotions that the MSM has been severely manipulating no less. There were even more tragic stories happening under Obama’s watch, but the public outrage was non-existent because the media essentially covered it up at the time.

And I know you weren’t speaking on any specific arguments made in the video, but do you not agree that the Nazi comparisons currently being made are 100% hysterics and hyperbole that should be condemned by those on the left? Or do you feel it’s a fair comparison to make?

Obama set the precedent for drone striking multiple US Citizens.

This is just true and scary.

Let me dial my hyperbole down a bit. When was the last time any of our politicians said that?

I voted for McCain and Romney. I sure know how to pick winners.

I think we are well past the point of debating specific arguments. You and I can sit here and exchange pseudo intellectual jabs, but the root problems run far deeper and both sides are to blame.

Let's take a small step back and acknowledge that the cast of the Apprentice is running a the most powerful country in history.

Gentlemen scholar farmers are not running the nation. The right calls the left Commies and the left calls the right Nazis. The rest of the country is like a traumatized child who has been forced to tune out their two crazy parents who are always fighting and hogging up the TV.

You're right that there were arguably more children walking across the border under Obama's watch. But for fuck's sake Obama isn't president anymore. The fairness of media coverage is not on trial.

The future of the United States of America is being decided.

The conspiracy theory is unfolding before our eyes on every god damn channel and we just want to argue with each other over the shiny objects.

When the left's president was in office, the left leaning media was his biggest fan and the right leaning media was his biggest enemy. Now it's the other way around.

It's the forces pushing both sides farther and farther away from each other that we should be concerned about.

It's not whether you or I win, it's who benefits the most when we both lose that we should be paying attention to.

If we can neutralize that threat then we can all actually Make America Great Again.

Gentlemen scholar farmers are not running the nation.

Damn. You’re so right. It is crazy to think how far away we’ve gotten from where we started.

That being said, that stray from our founding principles is a big reason for why I find myself drifting further and further to the right with each passing day. Sure one side calls the other commies and the others Nazis, but one of those comparisons is far more fair than the other.

For the amount of times people call Trump and the Republican Party “fascists”, there’s only one party that I see actively seeking to strip away existing rights from American citizens (like the 1st and 2nd amendments).

Aside from abortion (which I used to not understand how you could be against it, but have since realized that it’s at least an ideologically consistent argument), name me one right that people on the right are trying to take away from people? Where does the fascism claim come from? It’s not so much about winning or losing the argument to me, it’s about winning or losing our God-given rights as American citizens (and that’s coming from someone that doesn’t consider myself religious).

But all in all, I totally agree that the true forces we all need to worry about are the ones in the middle, pushing everyone further and further apart. In the same way the Queen of England gave support to the South leading up to the Civil War, we need to try to expose whatever it is that is driving this wedge.

I agree with you, but don’t you think the media is largely to blame for the current hysteria? They are fueling this hysteria instead of being even remotely factual. To me, that is causing the biggest rift among us. The left vs right will always be throwing jabs, it is the job of the press to give us the facts and let us decide what side to choose. Legalizing propaganda to be used against US citizens should be repealed ASAP, IMO.

While the media is largely to blame, they run what drives ratings for their sites and I think the American people are just as much at fault. Politics and sports have become so similar. Fans of sports teams find any way to justify the actions of their players or coaches. Like the Patriots. The rest of the world knows they cheated multiple times. Do the fans of the Pats care? No. Even when solid evidence comes out, they will justify it or downplay it. They do that by staying on their teams website for news. Not watching ESPN or any other sports outlet to know what really happened.

The GOP watch Fox so they can get their fill of lies or skirting around the truth, the Dems watch MSNBC and whoever else for the exact same. It is so hard to find the straight up truth out there any longer. My dad used to watch Al Jazeera news because he said that was the only place you could get some sort of balance. Now he watches Lou Dobbs and has begun trolling old women libs on FB. Wtf happened dad?

You are so right. It's human nature to protect what you want to believe is true. In doing so, you only allow yourself to see what you want to see. Hell, I can attest to this from my personal life, I chose not to see the damage being done. I wouldn't allow myself to feel the pain until it grew to the point it was undeniable. Then, truth no longer allowed itself to be hidden. You can run, but you can't hide kind of thing.

What can be done? How to we recover from the point we are at now, as a whole?

Your dad sounds like a trip. Trolling on FB, hilarious.

Lol, he really is. He swore up and down he would never vote for Trump, especially after the bus tape thing came out. It switched that hard in about 4 months though. In Sept 2016, he couldn't stand Trump, was in disbelief that people allowed him to get that far, found him extremely untrustworthy, self centered and was scared to death of him running the country. Then starts watching Lou Dobbs and Fox news constantly and by Jan 2017(next time I saw him), he was trolling old women who were bashing Trump on FB. It seriously blew my mind and saw how quickly people can be propagandized.

What what pushed him to start watching that in the first place? People don't just flip overnight. Maybe it started to make sense to him.

See, this is the interesting part. Something happened on his boat to where the only channels they got were these crazy channels and Fox was the only news he could watch. So he watched it for the weeks they spent cruising down to the keys and back. Anyway, he came back 100% in on Trump. It is just that when you watch nothing but cheerleading for someone, absolutely zero coverage of the ridiculous/awful things they do, without any way to see what really happened(because he was on a boat) and then awful coverage of their opponent, you can be swayed, obviously.

Its like Clockwork Orange or something, Lol

I suppose. For me, I watched local news and MSNBC, but their coverage was so over the top BS that I had to switch to occasional Fox just to see what actually happened with out the seething hatred undertones.

Now, I rarely watch any of them.

I cant watch any of it

It's pretty bad.

Gaslight

Obstruct

Project

Could you please give specific examples of him doing that anywhere in this video?

Describing yourself again?

Do you have a memory the length of a gnat?

Obama was INVITING children up to the border in 2014.

The DNC was doing that because they were trying to change the face of illegal immigration from economic migrants, drug cartels and coyotes to . . . children.

They always invoke "the children" when they want to do something extra-legal or violate your rights.

Censor the internet? Why, it's for the children, of course.

Put trigger warnings on books to suppress classics of literature? Why, that, too, is for the children.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it." --H.L. Mencken, 1920

"The Children" are always trotted out when you want to emotionally manipulate people and bypass logic, reason and higher brain function.

In 2014, Obama got busted putting out solicitations to bid to accompany minors up from Mexico to the U.S. border. He planned and coordinated it.

So the child migrant crisis was fake, from start to finish. A p.r. campaign.

And, yes, it happened under Obama.

For you to deny that, makes you either a victim of amnesia or a dishonest person.

Your reasoning?

"Sure, this happened in 2014 . . . with utterly no history of it happening before. And, yes, Obama was President. But . . . um . . . er . . . Trump time-traveled back to Obama's administration and put the gears in motion."

You may hate Trump for other ideological reasons, but to try and foist this on him is the height of disingenuousness.

As even CNN admitted: These cages were there in 2014.

CNN ADMITTED THAT!

Watch the clip.

Damn! So you're to the left of CNN! Your "Time-travel-Trump-Did-It" theory is amusing.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it." --H.L. Mencken, 1920

That's an awesome quote.

Agreed, I stopped and pondered that for a min...

I'm relatively young, but I think this came before Obama.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

But I agree with you that Obama sucked and had bad policies.

Trump sucks and has bad policies. Bush Really sucked and had bad policies. Clinton got sucked and had bad policies.

If they get to the border, give them a social security number, a wells fargo checking account and slap a judgement on them. Might as well legalize illegal immigration. Put a $300,000 judgement on them as a student loan advance and let em run. 2000 children x 300k. That's $600,000,000 in receivables. AAA rated securities being minted at the border. Default = deportation.

Problem solved.

Did you just invoke the 19th Century poem by a Jewish socialist as if it were U.S. immigration policy?

You realize that when that poem was placed on the Statue of Liberty, U.S. immigration policy was racist as fuck, and exclusionary as hell?

Emma Lazarus [the socialist in question] had no political power, and her poem had about as much weight as a limerick from a McDonald's commercial.

The Statute of Liberty wasn't even an official structure. It was made by a Frenchman for the U.S. Centennial celebration. But it was NOT commissioned or bought by the U.S. government.

They were so indifferent to it that, even after it was sent over, they didn't help to put it up.

Newspaper magnate Joseph Pulitzer put it after after soliciting nickels in his newspaper. He said that, if you donated, he'd place your name in the paper.

After amassing enough nickels, he [a private citizen] saw the statue erected. Not the governor of New York, nor the President of the United States.

Not one penny in tax money went to erect the un-official statute.

It wasn't a state, local or federal project.

It was a prop for a Centennial celebration. And it was private.

So, as I said, what you did is like take a poem put up on a Bob's Big-boy Statue for a burger joint and said, "Well, we have to do what the poem says. That Jewish lady over there glued her poem to the base."

Poems aren't immigration policy.

The Statue of Liberty isn't our Constitution.

You understand this, right?

You are correct much like Tucker Carlson was correct in most of his points.

Poems aren't immigration policy.

The poem's message as commonly interpreted in recent history is an invocation of the aspirational ideals of the United States of America. A land that theoretically welcomes all and gives them a shot at a better life than wherever they came from.

The irony is very rich. A country founded by religious fundamentalists who engaged in terrorist acts to overthrow the rightful government and imposed a set of unequal rules to govern. For the next hundred years they benefited from the labor of "involuntary immigrants", immigrants pressed into indentured servitude, murdered millions of natives in the name of progress.

Despite the endless lists of atrocities we've inflicted on ourselves and throughout the world, the United States still stood as the "shining city on the hill."

Guatemalan migrant children are no different than starving Irishmen, violent Italians or the waves of Yellow peril. Immigrants are inextricably woven into the fabric of this nation.

Singling out the latest newcomers as the evil other apparently is as American a pastime as baseball.

Whether it's a Jewish Socialist, a New York conman or a half Kenyan Hawaiian. The key is to separate the message from the messenger.

Illegal immigration is illegal and should be punished.

But the punishment should fit the crime (forgive me for paraphrasing an 18th century Italian jurist) and the crime of illegal immigration should not be punished by the internment of children.

There must be a better way and we as a nation should strive towards finding better ways. A great life philosophy is "Don't be a dick."

Illegal immigrants and refugees have given us a lot more than they have taken. Thanks to them we have railroads, clean dishes, great landscaping and Apple. Net positive.

Well, you have to be careful of the propaganda. Someone once wrote, "The removal of context is the essence of propaganda."

So what is the larger context of when America was founded, regarding slavery?

Answer: The larger context was that EVERY NATION ON EARTH had slavery.

Every one.

So slavery wasn't this unique invention of the West. What was unique was that the West was the only society in human history to have banned slavery as a moral evil.

The West could do this because of the Industrial Revolution. As a result of machines, we could dispense with large percentages of human labor. It gave the West the ability to dispense with the institution of slavery, while it was still carried on (unimpeded) in Africa, Asia or the Middle East [all of whom still have slavery today].

Only the West still agonizes over it centuries later.

No one else is self-flagellating over it . . . especially not the people who still sell slaves in 2018 [like Libya, India or Saudi Arabia].

There are more slaves today than in 1860. You can see a map of where they live. By clicking into it you'll notice that slavery is absent in the West and most prevalent in Third World countries: https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/index/#

According to the New York Times, a grand total of 448,000 Africans were transported to the American colonies over a four-century span.

448,000!

That's it!

Not even half a million.

To put that in context, 600,000 white Americans died to free them in the U.S. Civil War.

(Doesn't sound to me like Americans are "immoral, evil" people. The white population was willing to sacrifice the lives of more whites than Africans who were brought over.)

You have no example of a nation doing this in any other country.

In fact, you have examples to the opposite effect: Like, say, Haiti rising up to murder its white population. (Haitians didn't sacrifice blacks to save whites. Quite the contrary.) You see the same process afoot now in South Africa, Zimbabwe, etc.

Outside of the West, you do NOT see the host-population of any country removing its own demographic to replace them with another (to redress past sins). That is to say, Japan [which committed atrocities against the Chinese in Manchuria] are not removing Japanese people from government in Tokyo to replace them with ethnic Chinese in a "diversity program".

No other culture on Earth does this.

If you've been educated to believe that the only civilization in human history to ban slavery is "uniquely evil," you've been grossly misinformed. Or that slavery was this unique institution, only found in America, then you've been hoodwinked.

The reality is: Slaves exist TODAY. This very minute. (But they exist in non-white countries, so the Left refuses to call them out.) Their brilliant solution? To attack living people who never owned slaves, in a society that banned slavery . . . and to frame history's Good Guys as "the most evil villains that ever walked the Earth".

I didn't say the USA was uniquely evil.

I said the USA has like everyone else committed evil acts. The USA is also not the only civilization to have banned slavery. I also agree with you that mandatory diversity is as bad as mandatory segregation.

Asian Americans tend to test well and place disproportionately high in specialized and Ivy League schools. There's a tremendous backlash to restrict their numbers because it's "unfair" to other groups.

I also said despite that evil, the US carved out a higher standard. It is not easy to integrate different cultures. Again you are right, the historical standard is for homogeneous societies.

Whites inflict suffering and whites have suffering inflicted upon them. I am not disputing any of that. Whataboutism is not constructive.

It's also not a numbers game. "448,000 slaves cost the lives of 600,000 white Americans in the Civil War." That is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics.

You could star in Cirque Du Soleil as a White Knight.

Again at the risk of belaboring the point. Our goal as a nation, as people, should not be balancing the ledger of blame to fix the mistakes of the past. Our goal should be to find better solutions to the world's problems.

Yes slaves exist today all over the world and they are regularly called out. Sweat shops, human trafficking, child labor.

If you'd like some help thinking of greater examples of moral cowardice just look to congress on both sides of the aisle. They wear morality as a token convenience the same way a stripper wears a g-string.

We all know it serves no practical purpose but it's still part of the uniform.

You said that no other culture removes its host population for foreigners.

You also said that the United States is one of the only civilizations to ban slavery.

So the USA is clearly a paradigm shifting actor willing to do unprecedented things.

So let's continue doing the impossible. Continue building a society that aspires to freedom, equality and all of that other fun stuff we pretend to believe in.

The West is objectively the most morality-obsessed, freedom-loving, justice-seeking civilization in human history.

The problem with the school system, however, is that it seeks to pervert the record (remove the larger global and historical context) in an effort to demonize the West.

It's common for kids to be brainwashed into the idea that Europeans are "the cancer of the world". But the reality is: No one has lifted more people out of poverty, or offered more medicine or technological advances to the rest of the human race than Europeans.

"But . . . but . . . they had slavery!" is the stock response.

Yeah, and so did everyone else.

That's not What-About-ism. That's reality.

And no one else got rid of slaves. Only the West did that. And was willing to fight wars to do it.

No one else did this.

So I can't abide the childish "West-is-Evil" nonsense.

The West is moral as hell. Which is why morality-based arguments work on Westerners: Because they're ethical people.

Ethical blackmail and guilt campaigns don't work in Africa. Or the Middle East.

They feel zero guilt for conquering their enemies, enslaving them and beheading children.

As I said: It's why Leftists aren't calling for Arabs, Jews of Africans to pay reparations to the people they enslaved. Only Western Europeans are asked to do this, because only they are susceptible to guilt.

Every other culture, by contrast, is sociopathic.

The Japanese do not have films excoriating their own behavior to the Manchurians in WWII. Nor do they teach their children in school of the "illegitimacy of Japanese culture" for their racism and xenophobia.

Only the West does this.

And there's a point where teaching you to hate yourself is destructive to the wider society.

Instead of the schools teaching the children to take pride that they live in the only civilization to ban slavery [i.e., the West], they're taught straight-up lies about it.

Check out an example of the propaganda I found when I went online to look up tornadoes (and they even took the opportunity to embed propaganda there): "The United States has its fair share of unique, utterly American features. Yellowstone's billowing geysers are a pretty standard image of the U.S. The geologic majesty of the Grand Canyon also comes to mind. Really big pancakes? Yeah, Americans love those. But there are also more disconcerting North American traditions -- the systematic racism of slavery, for instance. And don't forget about the natural disasters that seem to camp out on this little corner of the globe." Source: http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/do-tornadoes-only-occur-in-north-america.htm Note the paragraph starts off with the premise that everything mentioned is a "unique, utterly American feature". Like Yellowstone is unique to the United States. The Grand Canyon is unique to America. Then it mentions slavery . . . implying falsely that America invented it. Unique? No, the West is only unique insofar as they banned it.

Yes I agree with you that teaching the US to hate itself is destructive to the wider society. That is also the most biased meteorological report I've ever read.

We should be proud to be a Americans, we don't have to justify what we've done wrong in the past and we don't have to carry any sense of guilt or obligation. We also can't ignore the mistakes of the past and present.

The US is the only nation in history to have accumulated so much power in such a short amount of time. We've only been around for 242 years. But the country is falling apart at the seams. Wealth inequality, ineffective leaders, biased media and genuine lack of participation by the majority of the population who just want to be fed and entertained.

I may not agree with all of your opinions, but as cliche as it is, I believe you have the right to express them freely without fear of reprisal or retribution. That is a uniquely American concept you won't find in many other parts of the world.

My concern is that there are forces working to take those rights away and those forces are on both sides of the aisle and their only agenda is self-enrichment at any cost.

Absolutely 100% correct, on all points.

I just have to say thank you to both you and u/transplanted33. This kind of thoughtful, respectful, and interesting discussion is so rare to find on this sub these days (or any sub for that matter).

You both raised great points, had some great counter arguments, and despite disagreeing on a bunch of aspects, kept it totally civil and productive!

This was exactly what I was hoping for when creating this thread. I wish it would have generated more convos like this. Thanks again for helping to show everyone that threads like this can actually work.

He's really good at what he does. He sets up Strawman real well but it's all lies and half truths. I'd really like to source my argument but to be honest it would be exhausting. So I'll have to concede. Also don't forget tucker Carlson owns the Daily Caller and the caller helped ajit creampie head of the fcc sell his bullshit about how getting rid of net neutrality is no big deal and a good idea.

Well I appreciate your honesty lol. I understand that it’s no easy task calling out specific examples, but hopefully some people will be passionate enough to do so.

And interesting, I didn’t know he owned the Daily Caller. That being said though, I’ll admit I’m personally against net neutrality myself. But that’s only because I’m typically a supporter of free market solutions over government mandated regulations. Another topic I’d be willing to discuss though, because I’m not too set on that opinion anyway. I hate Comcast and Verizon just as much as anyone else, too.

i just find it funny how they find people to parade on with crazy viewpoints for tucker to seem reasonably perplexed lol

What crazy viewpoints does Dave Rubin have? Or do you just mean in general?

He's definitely meme worthy.

problem reaction solution.... its rabble rousing . as if you can't see that... ?! your so obvious.