Evolution Challenge! Explain how you get a DNA without a cell membrane, and a cell membrane without a DNA. Rules of the challenge are inside.
1 2018-06-27 by joe_jaywalker
The rules are simple: explain clearly and in your own words how you get a DNA without a cell membrane and a cell membrane without a DNA, without doing any of the following (violating any of the following rules will be considered a FAIL):
appealing to authority
ad hominem
linking/plagiarizing
This should be fun for all the big-brained Scientism fans!
31 comments
1 WayfarOuthere 2018-06-27
"chemistry"!
1 bradok 2018-06-27
I mean, that is the right answer.
1 frankenham 2018-06-27
Abiogenesis has been repeatedly proven wrong for over a century.
Fact of science: Life has only ever been observed to come from pre-existing life.
1 gunter_grass 2018-06-27
Evolutionary Magic
1 Imnotyourbuddytool 2018-06-27
Soap bubbles. That's pretty much what a cell membrane is.
Micro and macro evolution are caused by the same mechanism. Individual data bits being changed in the DNA due to mutation.
Micro evolution describes a single change or a few changes. Macro evolution describes a large number of changes over an extremely long period of time. Given enough time and enough changes, a life-form would no longer resemble its ancestors.
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-06-27
So your answer is "soap bubbles." Final answer?
1 ZiggyAnimals 2018-06-27
The soap bubble is a primative cell membrane without the innards. Cell membranes have a lipid layer(they can have more than one layer and added complexities). It's quite literally a membrane without the cell, or DNA.
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-06-27
So those phospholipid layers and the proteins embedded therein are formed spontaneously from magic, or transcribed/translated from DNA?
1 ZiggyAnimals 2018-06-27
Both are possible. Think back to the theorized origins of life, you basically had RNA catalyzing and passing herreditory information in a very primative lipid layer which could be a byproduct of chemical catalyzing of minerals. Ofcourse back than you had none of the complexities and needed defenses against hostile life.
Meanwhile today you have complex cell membranes which require DNA.
1 LurkMcGurck 2018-06-27
Tell him what he's won, OP!
1 frankenham 2018-06-27
Where did the information come from for the cell to create the very first biological cell membrane?
1 jje5002 2018-06-27
have we ever witnessed evolution? ever? in any species?
1 Ztientwickler 2018-06-27
Yes.
Are you living in another planet or something? How can you not know this?
1 jje5002 2018-06-27
okay can you give an example instead of just sounding like a dick
1 Ztientwickler 2018-06-27
This video has some examples, hope you like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NArlXzSFt2Y
1 kingcubfan 2018-06-27
Yes. Actually there is a scientist in japan that is watching the changes in moths that have been exposed to Fukushima radiation. Since their lifespans are so short it is possible to watch evolution through generations. Same as in cross breeding tomatoes, which is an evolutionary process as well. I'll let you in on a secret, the beings that control the earth live much much longer than us, which allows them to watch and influence our evolution as well. Hehe
1 jje5002 2018-06-27
thats not evolution in the same sense .. cross breeding tomatoes is you mixing two species yourself to make a new one and radiation influencing a species is so not the same thing as a monkey turning into a human or even a species just naturally changing without some major influence like that
1 kingcubfan 2018-06-27
It is not evolution in the same sense I agree. It would be my interpretation of speeding up the process, and while its not guaranteed of a similar outcome over something that occurs over millennia, I feel it's still a glimpse of the process.
1 bradok 2018-06-27
This video describes how you get a Cell Membran, naturally, without DNA. Repetitive natural processes and chemical chain reactions are the key.
9:14- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRzxTzKIsp8
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-06-27
So the components of the membranes are not encoded by DNA, but appear spontaneously, from magic?
1 bradok 2018-06-27
They are naturally occurring chemicals that were on Earth either from its formation, brought by space debris, or created through natural chemical processes like volcanic eruptions. Different chemicals interact with one another and through natural processes you can form a chain of chemicals that acts as a cell membrane, and do it without DNA.
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-06-27
I seem to recall specifying that this had to be explained in detail.
1 bradok 2018-06-27
To explain it in detail would require citing sources which you would then consider an appeal to authority. You set this entire thought experiment up so that you could wiggle out of anything and not lose.
I spoke my peace, have fun in your thread :)
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-06-27
It would only require citing sources if you can't explain it in detail yourself, which you cannot.
You said "space debris" forms a "soap bubble" and that's how we get a cell membrane without a DNA molecule. So..... the DNA then spontaneously appears inside the "soap bubble" and knows to reproduce itself another soap bubble when it replicates???
You are right to walk away; your arms must be growing tired from all that hand-waving.
1 ZiggyAnimals 2018-06-27
He said space debris was one source of chemicals that formed cell membranes. This most likely includes minerals and hydrocarbons. Please don't twist words, it' very rude and turns discussions into arguments.
1 bradok 2018-06-27
I'm going to ignore your obvious bait and intentional misreading of my statements to ask you this question- why don't you think God could have used evolution to create humanity?
1 eat_shit_and_live 2018-06-27
You do see the irony in your post telling people not to engage in personal attacks then attacking people trying to answer, right?
1 Guitarslap 2018-06-27
The complexity of life is so incredible even in the simplest of cells we can never give it due credit. That being said, creating proto life should (in theory) be as simple grade school trick for what are the odds that we are the products of the first spark of life? There could have been a quadrillion individual original sparks of life that were lost to time before ours became dominant. There could have been life that spent millions of years to evolve to a worm stage before it got all got vaporized by a meteor. All that being said, what if we could replicate simple single cell life? How do we make life have the drive to survive and replicate? I do not know.
1 Apersonofinterest666 2018-06-27
Morphic Resonance / Morphic Fields
https://youtu.be/d_RGEpJSr6s
1 ConSpiracysiGnsOn 2018-06-27
a thought experiment that yielded no results, oh the thrills!!!
1 da_smot- 2018-06-27
you want to see someone type jesus don't you