The place known as "outer space" is a complete hoax. We are within an enclosed cosmology. All you need to do to see this is consider what must be the case of that were true and scrutinize it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otQt8AEZ1PI

I think we can all agree that is a funny video.

I am almost certain that the FE movement is not organic and is designed to waste resources studying bullshit.

Watch the documentary mirage men. Most alien conspiracy theories came from one man paid by the government to knowingly spread bullshit. HE would go to conventions and place ideas that he knew were wrong and people would spend time and effort chasing shit leads instead of pursuing real ones.

The FE movement came about hard a few years back. Lots of purposely bullshit arguments to get conspiracy theorists to burn effort in a way that they know will go nowhere.

Seriously if you see a user spreading FE ideas take a peak at their profile.

It will be filled with easily disproved nonsense.

When you emphatically prove its wrong they dont stop the keep spamming shit like they are copy pasting off a script.

They want you to waste time on FE and not pursuing real ideas.

You'd have to be real dumb to believe in the earth being flat. Go to the ocean and look out at the horizon, it's curved.

No. It’s not. Why do people try to use lies to disprove something they ridicule as being easily disprovable nonsense?

What do you think about Eratosthenes' experiment when he found out the circumference of the planet?

He likely did not exist, probably could not have performed the experiment attributed to him, but most importantly the same experiment would have had the same result with a flat earth and local sun. Black Science Man even admitted this.

Doyou have any sort of evidence that he did not exist?

It seems as thouh you do not want to accept that you may be wrong.

If you can show me any concrete evidence that proves the world is flat (reputable, unbiased sources), I will buy you anything $200 or less

“Reputable, unbiased sources?” Is that a joke?

I’m not even claiming the world to be flat, guy. Show me the quote where I asked you to debate me.... 100% guarantee it was not about the world being flat.

Whatever, you are willfully ignorant.

I would show you, but you have a habit of deleting comments that people find controversial.

but most importantly the same experiment would have had the same result with a flat earth and local sun.

This is a primo example of what I was talking about.

This idea has been debunked time and time again. Yet it continues to be peddled by the FE crowd.

https://takethisskepticalblog.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/how-to-disprove-the-flat-earth/

The tl;dr of the link I just posted was the above user is correct, if we perform this experiment from one spot and one spot only.

As soon as you and a bud perform this experiment the numbers dont add up. Joes world has a sun that exists in multiple places at the same time to make this work.

Another simple debunking of this idea is to ask yourself why the sun moves exactly 15 degrees an hour no matter where you are on the planet.

On a FE this would only work at the North Pole

So Neil Tyson is wrong?

Thanks again for admitting that the sun, not the earth, moves.

So Neil Tyson is wrong?

Not exactly. He was referencing measuring once from one location, which is correct.

If you add in more locations though the math breaks down.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

Thanks again for admitting that the sun, not the earth, moves.

Im not sure how you came to that conclusion...

Can you expand on that?

lol at your link. It’s almost as though you Googled “how to disprove the flat earth.”

I found that like debating FE stuff before. It illustrates my point.

Can you find issue with it or will you mock the source instead of the context?

I just cant imagine being in a mental position of believing the earth is flat it is so absurd to me. Fucking Columbus 600 years ago knew it was round because the distant ships would disappear and he would still see the masts.

Im not sure how you came to that conclusion...

Can you expand on that?

He's just taking this a little too literally:

Another simple debunking of this idea is to ask yourself why the sun moves exactly 15 degrees an hour no matter where you are on the planet.

No..... he was referencing measuring from 2 locations, which he clearly said. Just like Eratosthenes. Are you just hoping people will read your comment instead of actually watching the video?

I dont currently have audio but if that is what Tyson said then yes, he is mistaken.

Can you address any of the points I brought up? You have completely ignored them or made attacks against the source not the information.

Another user was kind enough to point out that Tyson was taken out of context and was instead referencing the absurdity of the FE theory.

Why did you take Tyson out of context?

There’s nothing out of context about it. He said Eratosthenes result would have been the same with a local sun and flat earth, plain and simple.

Again I dont have audio but he explicitly says this is supported by performing the same experiment in multiple locations at the same time?

The link I provided (That you never bothered to even address...) gives a step by step process to prove that if you do that the close sun is demonstrably false.

I just cant imagine anyone genuinely having a position of actually believing the earth is flat it is just so absurd. I mean come on fucking Columbus 600 years ago knew it was round, he went west to find an easier route to India and ships in the distance would disappear while he could still see the masts.

Also, it's funny that the first suggested video on that link is Mr. Tyson demonstrating the absurdity of flat earth theories. If you use him as a source, what do you say about that video? Unless you don't think he is credible

He called him "black science man" and reads the new nationalist, I doubt he thinks any non-white person is credible

Pendulum clocks rotating different directions on different parts of the equators, personal experience with the Coriolis effect (coupled with videos showing it),a basic understanding of the Theorema Egregium, and sight lines being drastically increased by being on the Crows Nest are all topics no FE advocate has come close to explaining. I'd stick to those if I were you, bring those up and watch the responses dry up. Works every time.

You don't have to be dumb. You do need a distrust of authority and a lack of scientific rigor (or education) in your research. That makes them ignorant, not dumb.

Funny though that people will get way more pissed at being called ignorant (lack of knowledge) than dumb (lack of intelligence).

You do need a distrust of authority and a lack of scientific rigor (or education) in your research.

I know one in the wild. This pretty much sums him up.

Haha. You don't know what you don't know my friend.

Go to the ocean and look out at the horizon, it’s curved.

No it’s not, and it’s not supposed to. Spinning around yourself, you’re looking at a (flat) circle at the horizon. It’s not curved just as it shouldn’t be.

Maybe it's actually saving conspiracy theorists time and effort by siphoning off the true idiots.

It could also serve the purpose of discrediting "conspiracy theorists", so that way, when something good comes along, people are less likely to buy it because they associate it with "the dumb people thinking the earth is flat"

Thats also a definite.

They purposely attach FE to other groups so they are more easily dismissed by the public at large.

"Oh you believe 9/11 was an inside job... I bet you believe the earth is flat too, you dumass"

That's a bingo!

https://media.giphy.com/media/HkRFOYLKof4oo/giphy.gif

I belive in Flat Earth.. I don't believe in 9/11.....

They do this with pizzagate too. "Wow, you don't think wheat is healthy? You believe in pizzagate, too?" Weird phenomenon

Whether or not "the powers that be" actively seed obviously-stupid conspiracy theories for this reason, there's no doubt they benefit from them for exactly the reasons you say. To me, that part cannot even be argued against.

Think it's a combination of OP's point and yours.

If they want to keep using "conspiracy theorists" as a pejorative term, they have to actually have some that are bullshit and don't start looking more and more believable the more you look at the evidence...

FE movement

Assume im a dumbarse. What is the FE movement?

Looks like Flat Earth.

I'm guessing Flat Earth movement?

Sorry, I get lost with the acronyms.

Flat Earth.

Gotta be careful with that one; I thought you were talking about Free Energy.

You didn’t even come close to answering OP’s question, just launched a bizarre non sequitur attack against FE.

Taking a “peak” [sic] at your profile I see nothing of value. No interesting posts here.

Looking at your comment I see no arguments.

I Thought I did a fine job of answering the question.

Flat Earth is an artificial movement designed to dismiss conspiracy theorists and have people burn effort in energy in a useless way.

There is zero supporting evidence for a flat earth, and when you debate a flat earth proponent they will keep repeating the same debunked info as if it were true.

Sorry if my profile isnt very interesting to you.

Your answer to “what’s the most unusual conspiracy theory you are convinced is true?” is “FE is not true?”

Sounds like FE is living rent-free in your head.

Not really. I enjoy space and think its interesting. I also dont really care for the anti-intellectual nature of FE.

So I combine the two hobbies and I like pointing out the issues with the FE theory.

I dont really understand why you are gate keeping this topic. I like it and think its interesting. Its complete bullshit but Ill be the decider of what I do or do not decide to talk about, not you.

So I combine the two hobbies and I like pointing out the issues with the FE theory.

do you enjoy pointing out issues with the globe earth theory?

Which would those be?

globe earth theory

lmfao

But he did answer the question. His unusual conspiracy is that the government is behind the whole FE movement to distract and discredit conspiracy theorists. Not sure how you missed that, being that was /u/eat_shit_and_live main topic.

Yeah yeah. Not unusual whatsoever but whatever. No one can trace FE back to the government especially considering it has been around for millennia if not for all human history.

when you debate a flat earth proponent they will keep repeating the same debunked info as if it were true.

and what does a globe earther do?

Ask questions, do research

are you implying that one who concludes that the earth is not a globe has concluded this merely out of fancy and not from diligent research?

Pretty much.

Even a small amount of objective research will shut the FE down entirely.

Even basic observation is enough to show the Earth is not flat.

analysis of basic human observations favors a flat earth.

On a globe earth, curvature would not even begin to be apparent until the observer was at 70,000 feet altitude or higher.

the whole idea of the earth being a sphere is rather far fetched. the implausibility stems from the unnecessary complexity of a universal system that would house it. they say the oceans cling to a sphere? the vast oceans, 300 million cubic miles of water, curves around a spinning ball; A ball which spins at 1000mph and flies though space at 60,000mph? huh?

a reasonable person who looks out to the horizon simply concludes that perspective convergence and atmosphere limited the distance they could see. it's so simple. why complicate it?

analysis of basic human observations favors a flat earth.

Analysis of basic human observation favors computers being powered by magic.

Also I would contest that. Basic observation favors a globe.

On a globe earth, curvature would not even begin to be apparent until the observer was at 70,000 feet altitude or higher.

Okay... According to what maths? Can you show it?

curves around a spinning ball; A ball which spins at 1000mph and flies though space at 60,000mph? huh?

I was able to drink and fall asleep on an airplane moving 600+mph.

Are planes fake?

a reasonable person who looks out to the horizon simply concludes that perspective convergence and atmosphere limited the distance they could see. it's so simple. why complicate it?

Thats only digging skin deep.

Why does the sun move 15 degrees an hour every hour no matter where you are on the planet?

it's so simple. why complicate it?

this is the stupidest fucking thing i have read in my entire life

this is the stupidest fucking thing i have read in my entire life. "why complicate it" lmfao because it's fucking complicated, idiot.

things are only made complicated in the mind. step back from the mind to know the beautiful simplicity of creation.

Your argument for creationism and flat earth are "lol just turn your brain off". That's the same excuse people give for plot holes in movies. Not buying it.

Also, can you please explain to me why you think anyone would lie about the shape of the Earth?

the question of why someone would lie about the earth? it would come from the same place that all dishonesty arises from. fear. entities driven by fear seek to control the this world. deception is just one of many methods they employ.

however, that's not so important. examining the trivial specifics of how fear is manifested in this world is a non holistic investigation. seeking answers through the mind is like running on a hamster wheel. it never ends.

ok, but how does deceiving us about the shape of the planet help to control us? aren't there more important things they could lie about?

yes lmfao

You think that his statement of FE movement being a conspiracy to discredit conspiracists doesn't answer the question of "What is the most unusual conspiracy theory that you are convinced is true?"

I think it clearly answers the question.

If you consider that a conspiracy theory, it’s definitely not an unusual one. Someone says it in literally every thread that mentions FE (and as shown here, even in some that do not) as though it’s an original thought. But whatever, if that’s really the most unusual conspiracy theory you can think of that is true, cool I guess.

The question is subjective. So who are you to decide what's most unusual to the person you're criticizing?

I know it’s subjective. There’s a commenter here who said Russia hacking the election. That’s why I said “whatever.”

I see this:

https://imgur.com/a/B4ft3vm

Which indicates a very recent, significant change.

This is a great tool: https://atomiks.github.io/reddit-user-analyser/

He actually answered the question perfectly.

You don’t post here.

Wow - this doesn't address the OP at all. It seems like you clearly have an agenda :)

Funny how OP asked for unusual conspiracies you believe are true, yet here gatekeeping.

His theory is that FE is a controlled psy-op in order to misdirect conspiracy theorists. You'd think an unappreciated genius would have the reading comprehension to pick that up.

First thats not a theory he's not even answering the original question. Thats what i pointed out. yet here you are presenting a theory he himself didnt state and then try and ridicule me. good try

He pretty clearly stated that FE was designed and pushed to misdirect and discredit conspiracy theorists. If your reading comprehension is that weak I'm not sure what to tell you.

But if his Theory hurts my feefees he's a bad guy and needs to be b@

This 100 percent. I couldn't believe it when I found out that was the new "major conspiracy". Like I figured that was cia disinformation right away. Its worst then the reptile people bull shit and it's meant to make us all look insane by association.

make us all look insane

You don’t post here. I’d probably be more worried about the fact that I’m a literally insane degenerate tranny making me look insane.

I mean he just did, so obviously posts here. Way to be classless though with your insult.

You don't post here either. Are you going to again conveniently forget the difference between posting and commenting, interloper?

Being trans does not make one insane. I've been into conspiracys since bush was in office not sure why my not posting makes my statement wrong. I'm talking about all theorists not just posters....asshole.

Most alien conspiracy theories came from one man paid by the government to knowingly spread bullshit.

Critical thinking question: why would the government purposefully spread conspiracies about aliens, but then also spread conspiracies about FE that say space and aliens are fake?

Just to waste out time and efforts. It also obfuscates the truth, who the hell knows whats true or not if the pool is so muddled with bunk.

And discredit legit conspiracies.

Just to waste out time and efforts.

If FE is true, it is the mother lode of all conspiracies and it would place unprecedented distrust in the government. Why would the government want that?

Check out that documentary mirage men.

Every minute spent on FE is one less minute spent on digging into theories that have substance

theories that have substance

Trump just announced a “Space Force”. You don’t think FE is relevant to whatever they are planning?

I dont think militarizing space has much to do with the flat earth

Flat earth = space and aliens are fake. How do you not see the conflict with the government spreading this conspiracy while trying to militarize space/fake an alien invasion?

The point isnt to convince anyone the earth is flat, at least not convince the masses.

Its designed to discredit and waste time of the FEers

Right, so NASA intentionally used harnesses on a live feed, so that we would waste time...distrusting NASA...but meanwhile them cutting the live feed cause “oh noes, UFOs” is totally organic and real. 😂

You dont even have to invoke NASA to figure out your planet is a globe.

I’m only arguing that I don’t buy the psyop theory.

Im just speculating that the FE movement is some organic home brewed thing, its designed and manipulated on purpose

The FE movement came about hard a few years back.

bullshit. its been around as long as man has asked questions about this world.

Seriously if you see a user spreading FE ideas take a peak at their profile. It will be filled with easily disproved nonsense.

attacking their character instead of the argument? weak, lazy, and illogical my friend.

They want you to waste time on FE and not pursuing real ideas.

please do tell us what you think "real" ideas are.

bullshit. its been around as long as man has asked questions about this world.

It really fell out of fashion in the BC years.

attacking their character instead of the argument? weak, lazy, and illogical my friend.

Dont take it personally.

please do tell us what you think "real" ideas are.

Ones that have a basis in reality

Dont take it personally.

once again you attack their character and not the theory.

Ones that have a basis in reality

your usage of english is rather cumbersome, but I assume you mean your "real" ideas are ideas based on conclusions arrived at from the scientific method?

well, you see, the scientific method involves an important step, and that is the modification of hypotheses

there is no infallible theory made by man. man's understanding is limited. a healthy scientific mind is open to discarding ideas, and adopting new ones.

once again you attack their character and not the theory.

My apologies, you just seem unreasonably upset. Lets move past this?

your usage of english is rather cumbersome

Something something character attacks...

there is no infallible theory made by man.

Absolutely not but there is no supporting information for a FE

I think Flat Earth is part of psychological warfare and is promoted in order to ridicule (by association) people believing in alternative theories.. When general public will hear conspiracy theory that may be true, it will put it to box together with FE and will not want to look into...

This seems more accurate. It's not like the Flat Earth is some new idea. It's been around way before the globe model.

I have a half formed idea that it's basically an indicator made to see how far the destruction of our education has gotten.

Lump Flat Earthers in with global warming deniers and anti-vaxxers and you've now just created a group of people who don't trust the government or science. You then lump all the more legitimate conspiracy theorists in with these crackpots, and all of a sudden you're discrediting people who have researched legitimate conspiracies along with people like a Kyrie Irving who publicly talks about flat earth shit. I also think it's interesting who exactly gets pushed to the forefront of these issues. I know flat earth stuff is pretty damn moronic from the get go, so you already have a lot of morons as the base that believe it, but Kyrie seems to be a really dense person with not a lot of intelligence. He's the perfect poster child for conspiracies if your goal is to discredit them. "Oh, you think Trippet was the JFK shooter, and killed Oswald as a cover up, and Jack Ruby worked for the mob? You believe in a flat earth don't you?" "No, I read the released files, and the autopsy report..."

Flat Earth was part of Operation Mindfuck undertaken by the Discordian movement in the 50s-70s. It was designed to get into people’s heads and make them question basic scientific facts.

Check out some of Robert Anton Wilson’s early work and the book Historia Discordia for some great anecdotes about cooking up the idea. After the Discordians lost interest (as they always do), it continued to percolate in the wider conspiracy culture.

What's the deal with lampshades?

Sometime you can have too much enlightenment.

A discordant joke.

I was thinking how I could prove the round earth, then I saw the moon in the sky while it was still light out. Now FE videos generally say the moon and sun are at the same altitude, and the moon provides it's own light. Long story short, I compared the shadows on the ground to the dark part of the moon. They lined up, except there was a dark part on the bottom of the moon too, proving the sun was higher than the moon.

What is fe?

Flat Earth.

Flat earthers have been around a long time. The Bedford level experiments were done in the 19th century. It's an interesting rabbit hole. It actually stimulates my scientific thinking, because the truth is that I've spent my whole life just believing the earth was an orb. I'd never been to space and seen it myself. I'd never done the scientific work on my own. I just trusted that my elders were telling me the truth. That the "blue marble" photo was a real photo.

This rabbit hole has exposed some interesting phenomenon that I'd never seen, or never noticed. Like the fact that even when I'm 40,000 feet up in an airplane, the horizon is still level with my vision, and not below it. Or that boats that go over the horizon can be brought back into view with a strong zoom lens. Or that some cities that should be over the horizon because of the distance can be seen on certain days under certain conditions, like a mirage. And of course, reading the scientific challenges has taught me a lot that I didn't know before. Cool stuff.

I'm glad the FE rabbit hole is there. I've learned a lot.

Like the fact that even when I'm 40,000 feet up in an airplane, the horizon is still level with my vision, and not below it.

Grab a theodolite, its a device designed specifically to show that the horizon does drop below your line of sight.

Or that boats that go over the horizon can be brought back into view with a strong zoom lens.

Zoom only brings in objects that are already visible back into view.

Great username.

You too Mr. The Black

FE yes, sure. But conflating that with the extraterrestrial conspiracy theories is nonsense imho. The UFO related theories are far from inorganic, as much as I've researched into it.

The UFO related theories are far from inorganic, as much as I've researched into it.

Just something I picked up from a documentary about the government purposely muddying the waters in regards to UFO research

Tf is fe?

No one with any modicum of scientific knowledge is "studying" the flat earth theory. It is easily disprovable with two cell phones and two rulers. And anyone who doesn't understand why should just shut the fuck up and just accept the fact that the earth is generally spherical.

agreed

I think it’s so NASA can conflate FE with people who call out the fake looking ISS videos and some of their other fake looking space footage. I’m torn between believing some group is travelling vast distances in space or not having left low earth orbit at all.

The FE movement literally started as a debate club for smart people to show that anything could be misused as evidence. Idiots then took it as true and ran with it. The masses never looked into it more than the idiots.

Sounds like what's happening on this sub tbf. Way too many people are either 1) saying shit with no sources 2) linking a random article as a source but the article itself is unsourced 3) using made up sources either maliciously or out of ignorance 4) believing anything they read here

It's the only conspiracy for me, even though I enjoy this sub/r. Russkies hacked voting machines in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

More likely Clown op to make it look like a Russian hack

Yeah, I live in Wisconsin and buy that someone got in and looked, but nothing was changed. That there are "Russian fingerprints" though, leads me to believe it was the CIA or NSA, especially after perusing the Vault 7 leak.

UFO's don't come from outer space. They come from beneath the ocean.

I subscribe to UDH myself. But something is in our larger bodies of water. I could even believe that past catastrophes necessarily drove humans (or humanoids) underground and eventually underwater, where they have continued to thrive. No need to bug us surface dwellers. They can get all the resources they need from down there. Hell, I would even buy that the survivors of Atlantis are down there.

Need links - google isn’t helping.

"Scientific" overview, worth the 17 page read. http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/Vallee-Davis-model.pdf

The deepest rabbit hole I'm in right now. https://cassiopaea.org

Ra Material https://www.lawofone.info

Upvote law of one.. Great stuff. I'll dive into cassiopaea

Annnd I'll see you next month.

If you aren't cash strapped, one of her books is called High Strangness: Hyperdimensions and the Process of Alien Abduction which is a condensed version of a lot of the information on the site and not as tinfoil hat as the title sounds. It pretty much tells step by step how one discovery led to another and how she went from skeptic to investigator to how she started channeling and how she decided when she was channeling a source she trusted that was worth listening to. On the site are years and years of transcriptions, which I've read most of. If you look at this section it's

"a series of articles on the track record of the Cs (Cassiopaeans), those sometimes sarcastic and always insightful perhaps-future-intelligences and subject of the Cassiopaean Experiment. We aim to present those instances of statements that have proven themselves to be accurate, to greater or lesser degrees, as a result of subsequent events, research and discoveries."

The channelers themselves remain skeptics that they have interpreted everything correctly.

Wow I'll definitely check it out. Thank you!

.

Go on..

The 2004 Nimitz encounter off the coast of SD was one...the pilots that were scrambled to intercept the ufo mentioned seeing it dock with a large submerged craft

Top secret US government subs. The US stole the UFO tech from the Nazis.

Right, submarine launched aircraft have been a thing since WWII. I'd be more surprised to hear the US hasn't at least tested launching modern experimantal aircraft from modern experimental subs.

I've always heard it said this way:
If you've seen it in the movies or on tv, the military has tried/tested it.
As almost all our tech advances come from military applications/uses, or the porn industry, it makes sense. If you didn't know that, we get HD cameras from both industries as a good example.

Seconded, on the rare occasions you read about some tech DARPA has come up with it's usually mindblowingly advanced compared to what's currently available to consumers. Even if it's something relatively mundane like a battery/computer storage that is a tenth the average size but 100 times the capacity, you know only the least interesting stuff gets released to the public

Good example on this. The guy who invented the lithium ion battery apparently invented a brand new battery, in just a few days, due in part to the battery being pushed to far (s7's going meltdown mode, etc). Basically he has been sitting on newer better designs, because he knew the patent would get bought out, and silenced.

Wouldn't be surprised if he got suicided.

And then you realise that what DARPA or other government research agencies make public is well behind what they actually have in secret, and even those are well behind what they can theoretically make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ZfaFUeK8w

That's pretty cool. I heard Bob Lazar's credentials had been thrown into question, so good to see another source offering up similar revelations

or the porn industry,

They're the reason VHS beat Betamax and part of the reason for the initial growth of the internet.

Hah betamax... Much better quality in both picture and sound.

Do you remember Emerson Electronics? I was told the reason they are no longer a thing is they broke the 10-year rule.

The 10-year rule is that you do not release to the general public any tech the military hasn't had for at least 10 years.

I had not heard of this. It does make sense.

They still exist though. I just googled them.

And the porn industry was probably for the child porn industry first.

https://youtu.be/7E_qF8wJ-Rc

submarine launched aircraft

What? Haven't seen this one anywhere.

and the nazis stole the tech from the water wizard

Wait they're not working together?

Who knows. All that we can verify is that the nazis were working on UFOS and that the US captured and spared the lives of almost all of the Nazi scientists and implemented them into their system.

It would be pretty naive to think that the US hasnt continued these programs long after 1959.

It's naive to think the u.s. stole anything and that it was anything but a corporate merger. Not take-over.

And the Nazis found ancient Virmanias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana

SD? Sorry. Im not good with acronyms.

San Diego

Having seen my fair share of strange floaty shit around Southern California, I can't say i'm surprised our military occasionally reports this stuff

My first thought was South Dakota. I had to think about it for a while.

I think he means San Diego.

I thought it was south dakota as well but isnt it a landlocked state?

It is. I was just joking. I think he actually meant San Diego.

Well I completely missed that

San Diego, my bad.

South Dakota

Bill Cooper also reported seeing a submerged UFO that was several times the size of an aircraft carrier

In his later life he could never tell if while he was working for the military he was intentionally given misinformation about UFO's.

SD?

Bill Cooper talks about that too if you read the beginning of behold a pale horse. He claimed it came from the ocean went up and down in it, flew into the sky, and came back down and the water seemed to part around it

Thanks been meaning to read that book

It's true, there have been countless reports of UFO's coming in and out of the ocean- I've heard a credible estimate of roughly half of UFO sightings. Aliens/UFO's is a terrestrial phenomenon, it seems, or at lest mostly. We should be looking in more than out. And DMT represents the most interesting phenomenon, not to mention the most easily verifiable one.

The others! 👐👐

Terence McKenna reference, you're awesome

DMT is just sleeping while you're awake dude...

Duuuuuuuude

Aliens are interdimensional, not extraterrestrial

Sounds interesting. Could you explain?

Its exactly as it sounds. While i do believe that there are and we have been visited by beings outside of our planet/galaxy, another theroy is that there advanced beings who are able to travel between dimensions and such.

I find Alien theories so interesting. During the whole nibiru/2012 thing i began to get into subjects dealing with ancients aliens. Just look at ancient religions and ancient art, theres UFOs in christian paintings! So many weird occurrences.

Basically, there is a whole agenda behind this alien phenomenon; it's not organic, more of a psyop.

First of all, the disclosure movement was founded on Rockefeller money - it's a covert product of the establishment, not a protest against it. Truthstream media has done videos demonstrating that the disclosure movement was started by the globalists.

They want you to think the govt has been trying so hard to keep all this alien shit under wraps (think Roswell) and there is an underground movement that has figured out something is up. But the truth is that they are only making it look this way, the disclosure movement was founded by the same people controlling govt. They want you to think they're trying to hide it and it's a real conspiracy, but it's absolutely not.

There is a drawing by Aleister Crowley of a demon he summoned named Lam, he put the drawing in one of his books - here's the page from the book, look familiar? These alien entities they are introducing to us through movies and what not is a form of predictive programming, a way for them to introduce us to the idea is something so we more easily accept it when it really occurs. They're introducing those interdimensional demons (like the one summoned by Crowley) as extraterrestrial aliens so that when they those demons are introduced into mainstream consciousness, we'll just think they're aliens.

Crowley, in case you don't know, is the Jesus of Satanists; he bragged about raping and murdering hundreds of children. He was pure evil but Satanists/people who sold their souls love him (he's on a Beatles album cover, Nick Jonas wears a shirt with Crowley's face, Jimmy Page bought Crowley's house after Led Zeppelin broke up, etc, etc.) The people in charge of our world are working for Satan, and introducing his minions to us as aliens is a part of their agenda. The Bible speaks on this as well.

The reason i can feel 99.9% sure that this is all incorrect without looking into it is that it's such a western way of thinking and doesn't represent the majority of the world population at all. Asians and Africans probably have different concept of what constitutes as a "demon" and the bible doesn't count for shit because it's all just a bunch of made-up stories that have been told over and over again in middle east and europe. Just to be clear because i did say that all of what you said was bullshit: Aleister Crowley was a real person and founded a satanic cult but he was just talking out of his ass about things he may or may not have actually believed (just like jesus did, if he even existed at all). Neither of them had any powers or heard the voice of any gods or demons because those are all things that human beings invented to help them understand the world they live in before they had the tools to do so more accurately.
If you want to believe in aliens, fine by me. If you think there's an advanced civilization living in the oceans a la The Abyss, I'd say show me some evidence. If you think there's a secret society of satanists controlling the (western) governments, I'd say that's far more likely but still improbable and even if it were true, it's only unsettling to think about what those very real people are doing as a result of what they believe. But please stop thinking that such people have any kind of actual celestial super powers because they don't. It's made up. We evolved from an ape-like creature which evolved from a squirrel-like creature which evolved from an amphibious creature which evolved from a fish-like creature which evolved from a worm-like creature which evolved from single-celled creatures which evolved from amino acids and nowhere was there a god or devil involved in any of that. Stop pretending like you know secret stuff that "people aren't supposed to know because the powers that be don't want us to know" and try to actually learn what there is to know from what we can deduce from the world around us. Every. Single. Area. Of science points in the direction that life is all just random happenstance and the only possible way that you can fit anything similar to the traditional western view of religion into our reality is to consider the possibility that we are part of a simulation that was "designed" by something of a much higher intelligence. And if you want to say that literally every single scientist on the planet (including all of those that don't belong to western society) are part of a grand hoax to cover up the fact that the christian concept of satan is real, then i would call you delusional in the very literal sense of the word.

Lol I used to think exactly like you...

But please stop thinking that such people have any kind of actual celestial super powers because they don't

I don't believe that...

Every. Single. Area. Of science points in the direction that life is all just random happenstance

Exactly what they want you to think.

How do you suppose this works? How deep is it? Is every student of science already indoctrinated? Even the 17 year old high school girls who are obviously future biologists? Or at what point do they become part of the system that you refer to as "they"? Do you think every time any scientist makes a discovery, anywhere in the world that provides evidence that your theory is incorrect, some suits from some American secret governmental agency show up and not only prevent the scientist from publishing their results but also completely brainwash them? How? With some kind of men in black device? If "they" have the ability to do that to any scientist anywhere then why not just do that to everybody? In schools for example? The reality is much easier (and much sadder because it doesn't sound like a cool mystery thriller): "they", being a majority but by no means the entirety of (American) politicians, take money from lobbyists (this practice is forbidden in many other parts of the world) and, yes, some scientists are probably bribed or perhaps even threatened to withhold evidences or tweak their findings, but not to cover up some secret plot of demons to take over humanity which was foretold by people 2000 years ago that constantly practiced incest and slavery, but instead to save face for large, companies turning a huge profit by exploiting the planet and the people... Oil/coal companies, pharmaceutical companies, arms manufacturers... They're making money off of fucking up the environment and our social system and they only way they can get away with it is by keeping society as uneducated as possible/acceptable. Funding for education is shit. There are enough distractions to keep people feeling content and unwilling to try and see past the curtain that they're being used. But it's all only for economical gain and has nothing to do with religion.

Lol bruh, everyone is deceived, including you. I used to be an atheist too, though, I get it.

Ok so I'm going to at this point assume you are a troll and if you honestly reflect on your thoughts for a couple hours and actually come to the conclusion that you don't just say/think these things to get a rise out of people or to seem different/interesting/intelligent, then i suggest you talk to a therapist. And if you are convinced that all psychologists are just "part of the hoax" or whatever, then take advantage of your extreme privilege of being born into a privileged, western society: learn thai or something and go talk to a therapist in some other part of the world that doesn't belong to this very western delusion you've built for yourself.

Lmao I remember when I was 12 I used to think exactly like you, thought I was such an intellectual and everyone else was incapable of critical thinking.

Ah yes, it was at the ripe, old age of thirteen, between masturbating six times a day and half-assing your social studies homework, that you watched the movie Constantine and became "woke".
Fuck off, troll.

Hahahaha no man I started thinking like you at 12, it wasn't until I was like 17-18 that I grew past agnosticism.

That is exactly what I believe. Or, at least, that explains the vast majority, if not all, of the phenomenon. That's what Jacque Vallee, perhaps the greatest UFO scholar of all-time, also believes. (He's worth reading, seriously.)

Lake Titicaca

Ha. Titty caca.

Is that right, Lake Titicaca in Bolivia/Peru? I've heard that place is outright magical, so it makes sense.

Yeah! Notorious hot spot for UFO activity.

Confirmed by Bill Cooper

As a long time listener to Bill over twenty years ago, he confirmed a LOT of stuff that was just nutty. I will say that his war against Alex Jones makes him ok in my book, but he was pretty out there himself.

Top secret test aircraft. Nothing to do with aliens, which surely exist but have never made contact

Unidentified Floating Objects

I love "The Abyss" too!

Just because they have the ability to travel underwater doesn't mean they're not from space.

And, in fact, if they were trying to hang out on earth and hide from humans while they want to park their space ships and eat lunch, doing it at the bottom of an underwater trench is smart.

We as humans have mapped the surface of the moon and mars better then we know our own oceans.

Excellent points.

Pressure has increased to 10 atmospheres!

How many atmospheres of pressure is the ship designed to withstand professor?

Well it's a space ship, so anywhere between 1 and none

I posted this already. But.

... You’re really under estimating the abilities of a alien intelligence who can design vehicles that are able to do extremely high G turns and acceleration far beyond the capacity of anything humans supposedly know how to do. If you have a hyperdrive and anti gravity drive... surviving high pressure dives probably isn’t a problem.

Totally agree. I was just paraphrasing a Futurama episode :P

I have removed 2 nerd points from my score for missing that. Thank you.

Spaceships aren't meant to fly underwater, they would have to be designed for that. Especially at trench depth. They are meant to not explode in space, and would implode underwater. Either some crazy technology, or they are different ships. Or they would have to stay pretty dang shallow.

You’re really under estimating the abilities of a alien intelligence who can design vehicles that are able to do extremely high G turns and acceleration far beyond the capacity of anything humans supposedly know how to do. If you have a hyperdrive and anti gravity drive... surviving high pressure dives probably isn’t a problem.

That makes them sound pretty mythical. Can the ship go through lava too? Or fly through a gas giant? IDK man. Maybe you are right, or maybe UFOs are human crafts, of technology we are not aware. And maybe they don't have all these magical powers. Who knows i guess.

I heard they come from Uranus.

This is fascinating to me. Honestly, USO’s fascinate me as much as UFO’s did as a kid.

Me too! I am really into the Bermuda Triangle and Atlantis as well, so my interest in USO's kind of branched off from that.

I've read about Unidentified Submerged Objects (or USOs) a years back and it was an interesting rabbit hole.

They would be USOs surely? (Unidentified Submersible Objects)

How?

Agreed. I believe "alien" life has been living in this planet right along with us since the dawn of man, they're just sophisticated enough to remain hidden. Solves the distance problem without having to go all extra dimensional (which is plausible on its own)

Wasn’t there a movie about this?

Maybe the physics of FTL or teleportation needs the object to be surrounded by water...?

They are the fallen angels of the old testament. https://youtu.be/WfTnQf_yF-A?t=5m53s

Definitely some bullshit going down with Mattress Firm. Since reading about it here months ago I always peek at the parking lot when ever I drive by. The parking lots are typically empty. They are located all over the damn city and two locations are less than 5 miles from each other. There's just no way this is a sustainable business!

I have been thinking about that a lot lately as well. There has got to be a way to research this.

If you want to research it, I'll give you the means, look up on zillow or something like that see when the land on your neighborhood mattress firm/mattress one was last bought and the current market price for that land. Report back I would love to hear what you find out.

My thought is that someone buys land on the outskirts of a growing town, they sell mattresses to cover some costs of owning the building/lot and then when the land prices double or triple they sell the land and buy more again on the outskirts.

This is an interesting theory

So what is that you think is going on

Money laundering

This^

Hiding their money under mattresses. So simple yet brilliant.

!RedditSilver

Here's your Reddit Silver, Narf_Poit_Wrestling!

/u/Narf_Poit_Wrestling has received silver 2 times. (given by /u/toothdude) info

XD

Washing human trafficking money is my guess, but pure speculation. After they're owner Steinhoff International attempted to stifle concerns regarding Mattress Firm's oddities? Oops! We seem to be missing a lot of money. Golly!.

"What caught our eye, however, was a small but important change to the language concerning what may be missing: some of the company's cash." March 1st 2018

Doesn't have to be human trafficking. Could be washing drug money, gambling, gunrunning. All sorts of shady stuff out there needing laundered.

Absolutely, just my guess.

A Nationwide smuggling network. They hide it in a few mattresses per truck and can move it through their Nationwide distribution chain unnoticed.

Jesse, we have to cook.

Im not clearing my social calendar to cook.... bitch.

They could even hide (tranquilized) people within them.

Ive heard of less comfy ways to be smuggled

People are having mattress parties in the middle of the night. Just piling them up and jumping on them, having secret pillow parties underneath the buildings. Chilling, and quite frankly disturbing.

That sounds fun

Never heard of this.....

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7s36ub/what_conspiracy_theory_do_you_100_buy_into_and_why/dt1xdja/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=AskReddit

http://www.businessinsider.com/mattress-firm-conspiracy-grows-after-accounting-problems-2018-1

I'm rabbitholing pretty deep on that AskReddit thread, thanks for sharing!

I've noticed that too. Every fucking suburb of Chicago seems to have a couple of them in close proximity to one another. Parking lot's always empty.

Same thing where I live. There are 2 stores less than a f'n mile from one another and both are never busy.

I live in Denver and we have three on a single 2,000 foot section of road.

Check this out.

In Portland Oregon there are 7 Mattress Firms right next to each other!!! In Beaverton (few minutes away) there are 3 stores all on the same block!

In Perth there is 4 in less tree hen a square kilometer

You sure it's not just for convenience maybe?

When I see them, it's usually on opposite sides of the street. It's weird, like Starbucks but with no customers.

can confirm. at highway 59 and black road in joliet/Shorewood there's 2 mattress firms literally across the street from each other.

There’s 4 right next to the Joliet mall

oh I haven't noticed those lol. I literally just left the movies inside the mall and didn't even notice them

I think Chicagoland might be the worst for this. Don’t see how since taxes are a real bitch, but there’s got to be some reason they’re everywhere.

Because organized crime and corrupt politics is just as prevalent as ever in Chi-town. I have to hear my buddy bitch about it constantly. And one of my acquaintance's partner's father is a Chicago politician with mafia ties. Former friend who I stopped talking to.

I live in Joliet & there’s 4 of them within a 1/4 mile all right next to the mall.

Mattresses are marked up 3000% of the cost to make them

If that's all there is to this, then they have the absolute worst business model ever conceived by mankind. In my part of the city alone, there are 3 locations less than 5 miles from eacher. As I've already stated previously in another comment, two of those stores are less than a mile apart.

Why on earth would any rational business do this?

Oddly enough, this is something I learned about in a hospitality course while getting a business degree. The same thing happens to other franchises like McDonalds. When there are multiple franchises near one another, it’ll boost overall profits.

Think about it this way... with only one McDonald’s, it will get 100% of the market. Whereas, with two McDonalds, there is twice the exposure and increased advertisement. McDonalds #1 no longer gets 100% of the sales, but it’s also not getting 50%. It’ll sit between 65-90%. Now, rather than McDonalds making 100% of the profit in one town, they are getting the combined amount between two McDonalds (130-180%).

This seems odd if there are multiple owners, but typically these stores are franchised and ran by a single person/group.

Thanks for the insight. That makes sense. The problem I have with this would be the fact that the stores I see (granted, a small sample) aren't even remotely busy enough to warrant another location, whereas your McD's example could easily see enough business/traffic to sustain another store nearby. Maybe not less than a mile apart, but nearby.

I heard if you sell 1 mattress per week, you end up breaking even. This means that if your store averages 2 mattresses per week, that's minimum $2000 profit per month. Times 3 stores in a row, is $6000/month or $72,000/year.

Wait, how? You have to pay at least minimum wage for at least one employee, you have to pay rent and electricity. For how much do they sell their mattresses if a single mattres covers all that and cuts a healthy profit?

I mean it literally says in the first post how much mattresses are marked up. There's nothing expensive in a mattress, box spring, or headboard. Plus any "insurance" that goes along with it. There's not a heavy resell of used mattress market either since who wants to sleep on other peoples beds due to random things like blood, body fluids, what people typically do in beds, etc.

It makes 100% sense especially when you consider that most grocery/super markets/etc are based on models that make about 2-5% profit if even that.

The amount of startup money it takes to make a mattress shop is so low, that anything you sell makes it worth.

Markup notwithstanding, you cant pay rent, utilities and salaries by selling two $1,000 mattresses. Even if markup was 100%.

That really depends where you’re located. A huge open area on a commercial lot where I’m at is pretty cheap and yes I do know this from experience as a few years ago my family ran some thrift stores. You’ll also notice that none of these places are in expensive neighborhoods they’re usually in semi run down areas where rent is cheap

Sure, it would pay for the employee, but there's more overhead than 1 employee. That's not even the largest item.

Sure but if you pay your employee min wage it’s about 300 week. That still leaves 700 a week for everything else. Electricity probably about 20-50 week, rent in my area ~ 300 a week maybe less

Still leaves couple hundred a week for anything else off one mattress sell. It all depends how cheap they get the mattress but I wouldn’t be surprised if they pay double digits for them from the manufacturer

Commercial space rent is $300 per week where you are? That's crazy!

Insurance, taxes, employee benefits, etc. I still don't believe $1,000 revenue per week is doable for a brick and mortar.

You don’t have to pay your employees insurance unless specific min requirements are met like # of employees and hours worked. Many many companies bypass insurance by skirting around them. Also you don’t need to offer benefits when there are people willing to do it for next to nothin (min wage). These places are simply there for fast easy profit not for building employees and customer bases

Companies have insurance for liability and such. It's not for the employees. And true, benefits may not be required if you're willing to agree your employees, but payroll taxes still are.

Sure but payroll taxes don’t come from the company directly afaik it’s deducted from checks. Unless you are talking about something else. There are business taxes but they’re not going to be more than a what’s left over every week from one sale

It's both. Generally 50% paid by employer and 50% by employee.

Out of curiosity I went to one of the local commercial leasing websites and I can find quite a few properties leasing at $1-$2 per sq ft for a year. So if you figure these guys need about 900 sq ft if even that it’s pretty manageable

1-2 per square foot with 900 sq feet means 900-1800 in rent alone. That math doesn't really work with 1,000 in revenue per month.

Where are you getting 1000 per month. The entire premise of any of my statements has been 1000 a week or one mattress sale a week to break even

Oh shit, misread that. $1k per week could work i guess, seems like it would be tight.

Yeah that would be about the break even point. Everything past that is essentially straight profit

Why are you pretending like you have knowledge around this subject? There is no way that selling 2 mattresses a week covers overhead. Not a chance.

It may still be a surprisingly low number but is multiple times higher than 2 mattresses.

remember that gas stations make pennies on the gallon

In no way at all do sales coincide for gas and mattresses bud. Completely two different industries

Don’t recall ever having said that they did, you narcissistic fuck. Stop making straw men

Minimum wage is $7.25/hour in my state. That's $290/week. I can't speak with authority on rent, but electricity is going to be around $30/week. So our target is $320/week, plus rent and any startup costs.

I'm guessing now, rent might be $1000/month, or $250/week. Startup costs might be high, but since you can expense everything you'll make a lot of it back at tax time. Especially if you can sell a lot that first year that you're open.

Another poster said that startup costs might be $50,000+, or $960+ per week.

Our new target is $320 + $250 + $960 = $1530/week.

Mattresses start at $99 for little more than cardboard, but assuming you aren't setting up shop in a poor neighborhood, the minimum target price is going to be around $599. Three of these mattresses a week puts you in the black. Year two, you no longer have the startup costs, and $570/week puts you in the black.

All plus or minus a little, and not including the actual price of a mattress which is probably $100 or less.

There are no stores that are only open 40 hours a week. It's rare that a store will only employ one worker. It's more rare that there is not a full-time manager. Most mattress stores have a truck/driver.

If you could run a business and only need to make $570 a week to be in the black there would be a ton more startups.

even that management is going to be hourly and I'm guessing their will rarely be even 2 people on the clock at the same time very often.

another point I want to make about Mattress stores is that the model is kind of like liquor stores too. it's pretty inelastic and the price is generally ubiquitous. and mattresses are heavy and not easy to transport. people are more likely to buy a bed from the nearest location

The local store near me is open between 6 to 10 hours per day, depending on the day. Granted I forgot about delivery costs, but my point still stands... labor is going to be effin' cheap.

Commercial rent $1,000/month for a store front LMAO you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about.

You are literally just making stuff up.

Admittedly it's been a few years, so I looked it up. In my town, I was able to find 1000 sq/ft for $1500/month, in a nice building/area. The mattress stores are definitely paying less.

Right lol. Try 20k a month.

I know this is old but my rent is almost 1000 lol

That’s not necessarily 72 grand liquid profit. There’s more steps. That money would be used for what you mentioned, bills, taxes, employment etc.

Dude I don't wanna be the guy to burst any bubbles, but say for example, you might sell 3-4 mattresses in a DAY on a slow day. A mattress is something people rarely purchase, because they are expensive and typically last a very long time. Still netting minimum 2k from those mattresses (probably more) and you likely employ a single person, maybe two on a shift at a time, so labor is negligible. And that's if you only sell a couple of mattresses. I'd never expect a place like mattress firm to have queues of customers or to be "busy", really, ever

They're just trying to be apologists.

Nothing else makes sense than money laundering or tax fuckery. The McDonald's parallel doesn't apply because everywhere you go at any time of day, a McDonalds has customers there. Usually multiple.

It's also part of Starbucks strategy. Overflow the market with stores, price out local competitors, remove some stores but still retain your market share.

Subway is paying the price for that move, though. Subway was perhaps the most aggressively expanding food outlet in the country and it’s now closing hundreds and hundreds of its countless locations and losing a lot of favorability among the public. It’s not always the best way to go

Subway follows this business model and they're failing.

Because their entire buisness was built around a pedophile

Entire business? No

Obviously an exaggeration, just saying. They were also dropped by their advertising agency last year.

Close enough, he was practically a mascot for the company lol

Not possibly related to the quality of their product?

Pedophiles need beds too

So, pedophilia and eating subway will help me lose weight? Got it!

I'm sure that doesn't help. But I can't help but feel Subway is way overpriced for what it is.

I've noticed starbucks seems to operate a similar way. I've seen managers that manage both the store you're in, and the one across he street.(maybe manager isn't the right word, but they operate multiple locations)

Assistant to the regional manager

Do you mean assistant regional manager?

To the

Assistant to the assistant

Mcdonalds makes sense, but mattresses aren't exactly an impulse item.

Multiple stores that sell the same thing is also a way for the customer to know that if they need X they need to go to area Y where X is usually sold.

It is part of why almost all medieval tradesmen lived in the same street, you knew you had to go to 'cobblers alley' if you wanted a cobbler.

Do you think this would also apply to these Party City

The only problem I have with this is one is food related, which is a daily requirement and the other is a mattress which people hold onto for a decade.

game theory :)

Things that are taught are not necessarily true.

Yeah, that's the way it works in lots of businesses. We've got clusters of dildo stores and ramen restaurants in my town.

I live in North Mississippi and there are 15 Rack Room Shoes locations in like a 15-mile radius and about the same more in a further 15 mile radius. When you stack establishments like that if you have Labor shortages you have a ton of other stores that you can have cover. It's a sound business strategy, but there's definitely something up with Mattress Firm, there are some places in this country where there will be one on each corner of a two-way intersection

Aren't there examples of one of these stores being visible from the parking lot of another?

Step one, buy property for cheap.

Step two, build a business that costs little to run

Step three, have the business cover the costs of owning said land for 5-10 years.

Step four, sell the land for 150% its original price

Rinse repeat with two or three more operations.

Dude...you're not really seeing the big picture here. Think of it like this, I bet wherever you are from there is a strip of road that has like 5 different car dealerships within seconds of each other. And literally everyday you see not a soul out there buying cars. The same cars are in the same spots for the longest of times and yet somehow those that own and operate these dealerships are usually well off and are not hurting for money. You see a ghost town at their place of business but then look at the streets during rush hour and see everyone driving a car. Well they all went out one day and bought that car and chances are you weren't around for the time that they were out there. Well everyone sleeps and that means at some point at least most normal people will purchase a mattress at least a couple to a few times along the way as the world goes round. And most likely, you were not around to see them when they were at the store buying said new mattress. A regular person will purchase a new mattress once every five or six years if that long. Will damage their product and have to buy another. Will move somewhere and not be able to take it and have to buy a new one. Now think of that rate of attrition and apply it to a country that is occupied by let's say 300 million people that will be those type of normal people that will buy a new bed every so many years. I can tell you that the numbers will read out that literally millions of mattresses are bought every year and despite millions upon millions of beds being bought by the everyday person, there are places like hospitals, prisons, mental institution, rehab facility, churches, hotels, motels, bed and breakfast, among other types of businesses that will also buy in bulk every so many years as well. That translates to tens of millions of mattresses being bought and sold in just this country alone each year. And yet I bet you've never actually seen anyone buy a single mattress right? Well maybe now you'll have some sort of actual perspective about how lucrative the sector of necessity enterprises can truly be. Everybody has to sleep. They don't all buy beds but a very large number of them do. Now think of the fact there are 6-7 billion human beings who all have to sleep on the planet today. And yet somehow you wonder how a mattress wholesale providor stays in business....it should be like so freaking obvious...

This is why online companies like Casper are eating their lunch.

Similar businesses being close to one another is a natural result of a Nash equilibrium. Let me give an example.

Say you're a beer kiosk at the beach. First day, you set up camp in the center, and get 100% of the clientele. The next day, a competitor appears. You go to ~33% of the distance and he goes to 66% so that you both cover your halves. Then the next day he realizes that if he were to go at the midway point instead, he'd get more than half the clientele if you were to remain at 33%. Then the following day to fix your mistake you realize the optimal position for you is to also go at 50%, leading in the both of you right next to another.

I've seen towns with 3 Holiday Gas Stations within 300ft of each other

It’s because the other mattress places like Sleepy’s were bought by Mattress Firm. Instead of closing the second and third locations they all ended up all being Mattress Firm. We have three in my small town but they just closed the smallest and the largest one absorbed the inventory.

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/mattress-store-bubble/

Why even have pay rent storefronts? Unless they are buying property to increase valuation, like McDonalds does. Just go all online, have one showroom per city and a depot where people can pick up purchased mattresses.

I'm just waiting for a company like dollarshave to move in so that big mattress can buy them and kill it.

There’s an interesting and fun small article in this week’s New Yorker about a store in NYC called Craig’s Beds, open by appointment only, and owned by (who else) a guy called Craig. Craig had begun by selling mattresses over the internet. But customers kept wanting to try out the mattresses before buying. So he set up his appointment only showroom in an office building near Penn Station on the 6th floor.

Also, not everyone has a car, or a big enough car to pick up a mattress, and mist people want someone to take their old mattress away. Most places that sell matresses will do that for you.

Not saying your wrong but mattress is a very tactile item. You want to touch it. You want to feel it before you commit to it. Like I would never buy a mattress for my house sight unseen on Amazon.

Well, I bought one sight unseen from Tuft and Needle and couldn't be happier with it. Though the free trial did inspire confidence.

You don't even need pick-up, to be honest - most mattresses get delivered anyway (and anyone who doesn't spring for delivery usually wishes they had by the time they get the mattress home).

I used to work at a furniture store, and had access to the "cost" of all the items we carried. A upper middle tier "Stern's and foster" mattress would run you about $3000 for a queen size. At cost it was roughly $700. Now another thing to consider, we sold "protector pads" for $80 each, and our cost was around $10. With both of that into account, there is still no fucking way they can sustain so many stores like they do

Even then, they’re paying leases and salaries?!!

We have five located in an 8 mile radius and my city is small as fuck.

Just shop at a local store. It’s not as bad. Sure they have to make some money to pay rent and put food on the table. But yea Mattress Firm is out to knock you upside the head. Don’t like those guys.

Source: an mattress store owner

In addition to this, they are just sitting on a long term investment of having the property value go up to sell.

That's great because it means you only have to pretend to sell a few of them to launder quite a bit of cash.

There's always a mattress firm right next to a mattress warehouse where I live.. Seems so odd. We have bought 6 mattresses (kids) in the last 7 years and have never set foot inside one (I understand I'm just one person, but we didn't even think to go there).

Dude I've been seeing a lot of unsustainable businesses recently. Like out in Hayward CA I found a place with an open sign but not a single description of what it even was. The place looked like a city dump on the inside and a post apocalyptic fallout building on the outside... A to how that place is even open... Not a clue but it's just one example of about 20 similar places that I know of just like it.

It’s open because... Hayward.

I saw a city worker there with a filled tear drop tattoo last time I was there.

Hadn't heard about this until reading your comment but gotdamn that's some interesting shit...

There’s an area in the university area of Charlotte NC where there are three Mattress Firm’s located on the same street. You can basically always see two at once, and at a certain point I think you can see all three.

if you stand where you see all three, your deepakst chakra opens quantum infinities of abject positivity.

i logged in just to upvote your comment

Same.

Sure, but do you get a mattress?

With memory foam

Oooooohhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm

I live in one of the largest American cities where store front property is pretty expensive. I know of three near my apartment within a mile radius.

Woman I know went comparison shopping for a mattress. At Mattress Firm, the salesperson couldn't answer the most basic questions and seemed rather annoyed that they were even there. At a place run by a local furniture chain, and at a big box department store, the salespeople were pleasant and knowledgeable.

My gf just bought a mattress from mattress firm...

Sucker born every minute

I'm not sure of its true or not but I had watched a YouTube video of someone explaining this that mattress firm is buying all the other smaller mattress company's and say If the competitors were across the street they would just change the name on it to mattress firm hence why there so close, and that after buying two smaller companies mattress frim is the 1# mattress outlets in the USA with 3200 stores I believe

The one near me just closed down

I used to work next door to a Mattress Firm in the same shopping center and often times the only employee in the store would be asleep.

It was me. I was the one asleep

I can believe it. They probably dont get many customers in a day. "Busy" and mattresses dont usually go together.

He wasn’t sleeping he was just doing quality testing.

There’s a great freakonomics episode about mattress stores:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/mattress-store-bubble/

I forgot what the video is called but a guy debunked this theory. The reason they are so close together is because Mattress Firm bought out a different mattress company which already had a crap ton of stores.

Here's a pretty good article about why there are so many mattress stores, turns out it boils down to they're so cheap to run and more mattress stores, even competitors, in the same area paradoxically raises sales.

https://www.marketplace.org/2016/05/02/world/why-are-there-so-many-mattress-stores

Mattress Firm has about 3500 stores. From what I have read they only need to sell about 3 mattresses a week. If I did the math correct, in a country of over 320 Million, They only need about 3% of the population to buy a mattress every 20 years. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I work in the mattresses section in a department store. The department is empty 95% of the time yet despite this, we are one of the main profit drivers in the store. It's no secret that mattresses have an enormous markup and this means that a store only needs to sell about 1 or 2 mattresses per day to stay comfortably profitable. Despite this, I still believe Mattress Firm is a giant money laundering scheme.

I worked at Mattress Firm, can confirm. I can go into the details of mattress prices if you’d like. AMA

Awesome! What the hell do they do all day in there? What’s a typical month in mattress sales, 5, 10?

Are they commission based?

So you basically sit there and do jack shit until a customer walks in. Typical sales pitch. Gain rapport, etc. typically there is only one person inside. Sometimes 2, but you pretty much do nothing but watch YouTube videos on your phone and/or listen to music. A typical month can net anywhere from 20-200 mattresses per store. Depends on the location. Also, that guy behind the desk wanting to sell you that mattress for $6,000 at what we called full-pop (full price) is in complete and total control of that price. Towards the lower end stuff, they can’t really discount it and they’re really not making anything. But that $6,000 bed is typically marked up an insane amount and it’s not hard to get at least $3,000 knocked off. The cost of each bed in the system is $699, period. And that’s just mattress firm as a company’s cap. Who knows what their getting it for from the retailer. If you push hard enough, you can easily knock it down to $2,500. They won’t let you walk without selling something. And if it’s the bed you want, don’t settle for anything less than at least 60% off. They’ll still get commission from it. It’s damn near criminal, and theft. Probably breaking a non-disclosure agreement by saying this stuff, but hey. I’ll deal with that if it comes down to it.

inb4ceaseanddesist

Private business setting their own prices isn’t really criminal though right?

Tell that to Martin Shkreli

Find a hotel you like, get the number for the one that makes their beds, order direct. $1500 for king sized, best bed I ever had. Plus hotels don't put up with shit that falls apart, they get used.

Russain Bot

Nah not really

With special A.I. The singularity is upon us

I like the way this guy thinks. Let’s see how advanced I am.

They find places with super, super cheap rent (we're talking dirt cheap rent), sell enough mattresses to make it worth their time, and then find somewhere else with dirt cheap rent.

They bought out their competitiors and haven't closed excessive locations yet

Idk about all these other responses, but I bought a mattress from mattress firm about a month ago and they had so many purchases that they couldn't even deliver it to me until a week after. Besides this, nowadays they sell mattresses with these new lifts that go up and down that also cost just as much as the mattress so they are basically getting 2x the $$$$$

Can confirm, they are. Those things act as a commission percentage boost. A bonus, if you will. Selling one automatically puts you up one level in the margin/commission tier system

Didn't Radio Lab do an episode on this?

Yes this. I know someone that works at a Matress Firm and he is so sketchy and probably knows it's a front for something. When someone returns a mattress they are told to throw them away, instead of throwing them away he keeps them and sells them out of his garage for personal profit...but his garage is constantly full of mattresses...how can a company have that many returned mattresses if I literally never see anyone in the store?? He's selling more "returned" mattresses than the store probably is. I don't know but I know it smells fishy.

Money laundering outfit...

Within 5 miles of eachother? There's fucking 3 of them on the same intersection by randhurst mall. 2 more directly across the street from eachother on dempster in Morton grove.

https://youtu.be/uu1nCM--5wo

This is obviously not exactly what they are doing, obviously they may be distributing drugs and or whatever other illicit operation that they are in, but they also might just be buying property, holding onto it until inevitably the city sprawls out and the land value goes up and then sell off the property with little to no costs because the store covers costs.

I’m a pizza delivery driver and all 3 mattress firms (within a quarter mile of each other) in the area regularly order deliveries during the day. I probably go to at least one of them once a day and I swear I’ve never seen a single person in there shopping. Not a single one. I’m also convinced it has to be a front for something

Mattress stores have incredibly high margins, so they don't need much business to be successful. Mattresses are a type of purchase that is very deliberately thought about instead of say, fast food, so the distance/location of a mattress store isn't as important. People will just pick the closest store. This allows the stores to rent at cheaper locations. Mattress Firm recently bought out the 2nd leading mattress store in the country. because of this you are seeing situations where Mattress firms seems to be across the street from each other. This is because that USED to be MF's competition that is now just another Mattress Firm. These stores will likely be phased out if they are not profitable. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gatTqg_nldc

This reminds me of this Tamale place back home near the Border. This place has been open for YEARS and I have never seen a person parked outside or in the shop for that matter. The stools and furniture look like a retro cafe from the 60s, and the coke fridge has never been stocked once.

No doubt it's a front for either money or drugs. Some rumors are that the trucks come by there late at night and drop off 'boxes' of supplies.

My city has grown exponentially the past ten years and my neighborhood gentrified over night. What used to be random grocery stores and bars is now trendy boutiques that pay very high rent. And yet, there is a Mattress Firm in the middle of it all that has never left. Whenever I walk by, no one is inside except maybe 1-2 employees standing there.

Definitely this. No reason to buy two shops across the street from each other unless you just need "double" the available books to be able to wiggle with.

Convinced every mattress store is a front.

This one I agree with, I have seen three of them within a few blocks of each other in major cities, one time, literally across the street from each other, always empty, but yet there they still are.

https://youtu.be/gatTqg_nldc

This video does a good job of breaking down why.

Me and my mom have a game of spotting "fake" stores around our city when we drive around, it's pretty fun lmao

Oh csn you tell me more, this sounds fun. Like, how do you know they're fake, what are the signs?

We look for signs like never seeing business yet being there for years, old empty buildings, businesses that change owners often, etc.

There is a freakonomics podcast about this. Not saying it explains everything, but does explore it.

I have two near me that are literally in the same shopping center caddy corner from one another. I asked a salesperson at one of them about them being so close and if he has heard about the conspiracy theory he new nothing. He did mention that he would be looking into it though.

He did tell me that the store sells 0-4 mattresses per day though. Is this a viable business model? Especially with one next door?

Same here.

Also I always thought it was 'kiddy corner'

Mattress firm's CEO resigned in case you didnt hear

tthere are 4 within one mile of my apartment...

Work in nonprofit and we buy about a dozen mattresses a month at a bazillion percent mark up. They also offer 6 year financing on a mattress with interest, so they pretty much have a used car lot model.

Same with KFC in Hawaii. The parking lots are ALWAYS EMPTY, middle of the day.

I read that same thread and every time I see one of those stores I get the Le Me eyes. I think redditors should crowd fund an investigative documentary.

I'm gonna try to go undercover as a mattress firm employee and see what happens

What are you talking about? The stores in my area are going out of business all year long!

I live in a town of less than 4,000 people. We have 2 mattress stores. I've never seen a car at either one.

Bro my friends are convinced it’s a drug front I have to agree

YES! Haha seriously though, 5 stores within 4 block radius is kinda strange....

easiest way to transport who knows what would be in a shipment of mattresses

easiest way to hide 20 people overnight, mattress store

easy way to launder money? mattress store

I had a friend who worked for a mattress company and swears he was fired because he walked in on a few higher up dicussing shipping drugs in the mattresses.

I'd believe it. He was living in a major city and working at a huge warehouse, he want back to work after hours one night to get something he forgot in his locker.

Shipping drugs inside a mattress would be pretty ideal.

Drug Money Laundering

This seems to be reddit's latest favorite conspiracy theory that is used to derail discussion of actual conspiracy theories. Not saying you are doing that, just saying it's the new "Michael Jordan Suspension" of askreddit. Below are some reasonable explanations of what's going on with Mattress Firm.

It's funny that /r/conspiracy can tell what's actually happening, but the rest of reddit actually buys it as a legit conspiracy (though note, it's the only conspiracy.)

Shit I feel bad for bringing it up at this point. Had no idea it was this well received 😐

There were some good arguments against it. In truth I conflicted. It could be total bs, just really hard to discount when it’s always a ghost town in their stores.

It is an interesting theory. It's just that anytime conspiracy comes up on /r/askreddit this or Michael Jordan or 7/11 was a part time job are the top discussions. Oh, and the secret service agent shot JFK, which is complete BS.

SteelBeems and the "fun" stuff around 911 is part of the grand distraction. SimpleTruth is the leadership of the country had a huge conflict of interest while deciding how to respond - they made decisions alone and lied to both the common person and our elected officials to push those decisions through. Absolutely disgusting.

r/RomeRules

Brought to you by the JIDF

LOL

But yea I do think Rome Rules is mostly a red herring used to send us down a misleading path.

You should read about western history and the wealth of the Roman Catholics if you think it is unlikely.

I have! I've read a great deal about the entire subject. I respect it, but my conclusion is that the Catholic Church is being used and controlled by TPTB, it is not TPTB itself.

Haha. Just a guess but I think he has.

You should read Flavius Josephus's Books of the History of the Jewish War Against the Romans.

There's sure something odd about Catholic church finances. I used to do some IT contracting for a Catholic school and parish. They were dirt poor, almost never buying new equipment and having substandard technology in every aspect of the Church and parish.

I asked the business manager why there wasn't more coordination between parishes for group buys or some kind of centralization at the archdiocese level. He kind of explained that the parish was pretty much expected to be self-funding and had to kick up money to the archdiocese.

Stranger yet was that while the school I did work for was an elementary school, literally right across the street and next to the church itself was a Catholic high school, technically part of the parish, that is probably top-5 in the metro area for all private schools, yet they had zero integration/cost sharing with the K-6 school across the street nor did the high school kick anything back to the parish.

My guess is that the whole Church all the way back to Rome works this way -- archdiocese to regional, regional to national, national to Rome (or however its tiered). Even if only 1/2 percent of the money kicked up any one parish makes it to Rome, that's a lot of money, and it doesn't even begin to include the vast real estate holdings of the Church, some of which have to be making commercial rents (ie, not all of just used by churches or other religious purposes).

I worked in the chancery of a major diocese in the Midwest USA, you’re mostly right. Parish-> Vicariate->Diocese->archdiocese->Vatican . There’s not really a “national” level as those are political boundaries that don’t mean much from a canonical perspective. You can have a conference of bishops of a country, we have the USCCB, but they don’t really serve a huge function as a group. Anyway, money in the Sunday collection basket is truly the lifeblood of the Church. Add in all the other perks of being a respected, historical group, and you get to make lots of $$$.

I just thought it was really weird that there wasn't even loosely organized group buys or even coordinated use of similar vendors between parishes.

It felt more like it was organized as a "cell" than a hierarchical organization, with each parish on its own. Perhaps a scheme that made sense a long time ago to ensure survivability if they were cut off or something, but now it seems inefficient and a potential avenue for embezzlement.

I remember on Mondays they had a bunch of older members counting money in a conference room. I'm sure it was no more than low thousands, but it wasn't Vegas-level security, either, and maybe 2 people had control of the cash past the count and they were also responsible for the bookkeeping. It's not hard to see a skim being possible.

I’m just now getting around to researching Jesuits but aren’t they just crypto-Jews?

I'm fairly certain of it. Loyola himself came from a family of Marranos. Their goal was to infiltrate and eventually subvert the Catholic Church, and they were very successful in doing so.

So I'm going further into the Jesuit thing and as you know almost any search for Ignatius of Loyola's background yields the result that he was not a Marrano (not that I knew wtf that was until like 2 days ago), but a Basque or whatever. That seems to be a linguistic distinction anyway, but my question is how do we know that he and other original Jesuits were Jews? One of the most common results one gets when looking for this is a paper called "Ignatius of Loyola and the Jews" which I'm sure you've heard of, and which obviously even in its title distinguishes him from Jews. Same with his Wikipedia article, etc. I would expect there to be a cover-up at play here, obviously, so I'm only asking how to find the truth among the possible deception.

how do we know that he and other original Jesuits were Jews?

We can't know for sure, but based on multiple clues, I find it very likely that they were. Of course they were trying to hide that fact, combined with historical revisionism, which would make it far harder to prove that they were.

One example of evidence is Chapter 15 of Book IV from Coningsby by Benjamin Disraeli, who was Jewish. In that Chapter, he somewhat casually mentions that the first Jesuits were Jews.

But sadly, with so many things, I think it is now impossible for us to be completely certain of the truth. We sort of have to trust our intuition.

Philip K Dick would agree...

Those damn Jesuits

Paul Is (probably) Dead.

Paul (probably) is still alive, but was replaced for large chunks of his career by a very talented doublegänger. I think the Paul we have seen in "retirement" is the real one.

I believe the conspiracy about his death was a kind of inside joke about the whole thing, which is why there is so much symbolism in both lyrics and imagery, as we can see on the Sgt. Pepper cover.

Who Is This Now (A Paul is Dead documentary) explores all versions of the story, and comes to that conclusion, but it's by no means definitive.

So Paul McCartney?

https://cassiopaea.org

Correct, Paul McCartney.

Paul is dead but John Lennon’s alive (or at least he ways in 2009). A film came out called “let him be” that was about a documentary film maker finding John Lennon was still alive. The guy playing Lennon in the movie looks exactly like him and sounds like something putting on an accent. He also sings and sounds exactly like Lennon

http://mileswmathis.com/lennon.pdf

Also check out a video called David Bowie Death Hoax on YouTube. The guy looks like Bowie behind bad makeup and sounds very similar. He also says yhings like “David’s death feels like a part of me has died too”. Both these guys I’m convinced are Lennon and Bowie. Everyone else I know says I’m mad but the Lennon one in particular I just get a feeling it’s him. Doesn’t mean I’m right but I just don’t see how you could fail to notice the similarities between Lennon/Bowie and the people in the videos

I still maintain that Paul is (probably) alive, but you're right on Lennon and Bowie, as far as I can tell.

Thanks for sharing the material.

Paul who?

McCartney

thanks, had a hunch but thought maybe paul walker

That is actually a conspiracy theory as well! They have some stuff at nodisinfo.com about it.

Nah I only wish I was dead

Someday Paul, someday...

Nice.

That we're not the highest sentient beings on the food chain, that there are interdimensional beings that feed off us like cattle, manipulate our genetics and society, that TPTB know about it, have some of their technology, and have largely made a deal with our farmers to save themselves.

I also believe there are interdimensional beings that want to help us, but won't directly because it is self-serving, which they are not. Pretty much The Cassiopaean Experiment, Ra Materials, UDH, and Castaneda.

Here's what Don Juan Matus had to say about our predators. The Ra Material and Cassiopaean Experiment overlap a lot with Castaneda. https://prof77.wordpress.com/our-predator-by-carlos-castaneda/

The Wolfen (novel) which I'm about to read is supposedly about how our predators feed on us and what they are like.

It's just slavery with extra steps. (Rick and Morty reference)

thanks i wasnt high enough iq to see that joke

Would have been a better reference without telling us he reference

That is from my favorite episode of all time. I think that the suggestion of each universe within another universe and they each reach the point of being able to create their own same thing but thay same thing being an entire existance for a very mundane reason. Our entire existance could be to merely run an alien's flying saucer battery and we're all sitting here thinking were so important. What if all the things in 'outer space' are just parts of the flying saucer, like parts of our car, and we're actually(in proportion to these beings) the size of bacteria in our existance. We can only be seen under intense microscopes to their eyes.. so who's to say our bacteria don't exist the way we do? Many languages and religions and countries and wars and families and friends and jobs and currency and an economy? Lol this is all just coming from me coming to comment that's my favorite episode. I never believed this prior to literally typing this all out right now. Just spit Ballin, here.

UDH?

I'm conflating terms. :/ Ultra-terrestrial (meaning past civilizations still living here out of sight, or humans from the future) and Inter-dimensional Hypothesis (meaning "aliens" are all around us living in different layers of reality with which we cannot interact due to our 3D brains, but they can interact with us, see also "Flatland").

So I should have said UTH and IDH, as opposed to aliens coming from other planets or galaxies. I think they are either here in our space, or living on other planets and moons in our solar system.

What do you mean by "made a deal with our farmers?" THIS topic is one I'm convinced is true. I think Isolated Cults and communes are involved with these entities. Either working with them directly or maybe unknowingly infected with them. I say this because I've seen shadow people and what I think was a Djinn after I interacted with one of these cults. I was even questioned by men in black type agents afterward. These beings exist. It's true.

Kind of like the shadow govt. in x-files making deals with the aliens.

The Cassiopaea material says there are two types of entities on each "density" of existence. Service to self (STS) and service to others (STO). Allegedly the grays are cyborgs created by the reptiles/lizards to operate in the 3rd density (where humans live). They are STS. They serve only themselves, and feed on fear and conflict (and blood in the physical realm).

The breakdown of densities is based on the Tree of Life, with animals in the 2nd density (even though they are physically in the 3rd density, their perception isn't on the same level, just as we exist in the fourth density as far as those entities are concerned, but can only perceive the 3rd density except under certain circumstances, as through transcendental meditation and the use of psychedelics to pierce the veil). The 4th density is still physical, but time is not linear. The 5th density is where you go when you die, and recycle. Sixth density is more or less ethereal, and 7th density is the permanent return to the source of creation, of which we are all a part.

My grand unifying theory of everything is that "magick" is real, but is just natural science we don't fully understand. The demons and angels are really interdimensional STO and STS entities.

Aliens genetically engineered us to better feed and serve them, which is why the mixing of races was forbidden, but is now irrelevant after eons of interbreeding and natural disasters which have repeatedly destroyed human civilizations.

The reason all pictures of UAPs are blurry is because they are actually blurry to the naked eye since they are inter-dimensional craft and use gravity wells (oversimplification and probably wrong terminology) to move. Blurriness and invisibility are side effects of the technology.

All the mythologies are more or less accurate, telling the same story from slightly different points of view from different cultures with different languages. If you ignore Zecharia Sitchen, there is still plenty of evidence pointing to his conclusions, but definitely not from his translations.

The Sphinx, according to geologists, is over 12,000 years old. It is a relic of the age of Enoch. Civilization was wiped out by the great flood, which was likely caused by a comet or asteroid impacting the ocean, sending so much moisture into the atmosphere that it rained for a really long time. This also wiped out Atlantis and probably buried most of the evidence of most human civilizations. Remember, fossils are actually incredibly rare. And a worldwide catastrophe could erase everything.

Time is cyclical. But time also doesn't really exist outside of our density. Sufficiently traumatic events can ripple though our time. There's a story, which I can't seem to find again, about a man who would get sick every year on the same day starting in his teens or twenties. He would get these migraines and see flashes of red and blue, and feel nauseated. When the date passed, he was fine. He grew up and joined the military and went to war. One day, a grenade was lobbed his way. As he attempted to escape it, it exploded. He flew, spinning through the air, and saw red (through his eyelids) and the blue of the sky as his eyes involuntarily blinked or something. He survived and recovered, and on that date, never got sick again. Allegedly this was so traumatic and painful that the event rippled backward in time, and instead of experiencing all the pain and fear and trauma at one time, it was shared throughout his earlier life.

As far as cults are concerned, I think there are lots of them, and the most powerful people in the world are involved, if not directly, then indirectly with belief in and knowledge of what they are doing. I believe most of these cults to be STS, since they sure as shit aren't trying to help anyone but themselves. I give credence to the who pedogate/pizzagate thing based on this. The whole spirit cooking thing is a giant red flag to me as I am a practicing (learning) occultist.

I think the MIBs are not govt. but are 4th density projections meant to scare you. I think they are largely powerless if you can manage not to let them scare you, but I haven't encountered them myself and might shit my pants if I did.

I have definitely encountered entities hanging around people practicing the occult in ignorance in my earlier years.

One other thing I believe but have no way of proving, is that psilocybin mushrooms in particular work as a poison to attached entities, and that they also tap you into the worldwide living web, which is where all that information that races through your head when you take them comes from.

Thank you for your measured write up. Much of this greatly resonates with me. I am sceptical by nature but the more I look into this stuff, the more patterns emerge. Any one piece of the puzzle might or might not be quite correct, but a similar picture is coming into focus for me.

I remain quite skeptical. I'm not going to join a cult that promises to take me on a mothership or anything anymore than I'm going to run back to the Catholic church to embrace their dogma.

I wrestle with how crazy it sounds on a daily basis, but I remind myself that even in lies, there is always a kernel of truth. What then of mythology? Are we expected to believe that our ancestors spoke purely in metaphors until the modern age?

There's something to it, and I may be wrong, but I will keep following up with it if for the simple fact that there is a voice in my head constantly telling me to let it go.

Pretty much my end conclusions as well. The comparative conclusions of castanada, gnostics, results from oob/tm practioners like Thomas Campbell and Murphy, ancient myth and legends passed from previous civilizations all seem to lead to this reality we perceive is one of many and that we are but sheep to be fed on. In myth, the war between good and evil was never said to have been concluded.

I like the angle of it, and I tend to think of it in this way too. It's simply a set of natural forces that we can scarcely observe, and barely understand.

You may like r/holofractal. Especially re: retrocausality.

Wow. I have never heard of this before, or, I've not ever read about this written so clearly that it makes sense. Thanks.

Stuff keeps falling into place, so I really hope I'm not a schizophrenic with a penchant for pareidolia. It's taken years to piece this hypothesis together, and I ignore a lot of shit. Rather, I read a lot of bullshit along the way that doesn't smell right. There are consistencies over time that lean me more toward one hypothesis than another. Stuff that stands up to just enough scrutiny not to dismiss it. Repeated stories and events or phenomena. It's kind of like hunting, when the hunter senses the animal before they see it. If you read enough different stories of high strangeness, you start to get a sense of it.

Would you mind going into more depth about your thoughts on psilocybin? Or point me in a direction to learn more?

When I take them, I get this feeling on the come up that something inside me really doesn't want me to take them. Like, whatever it is, is angry and scared when I take them. That's a strange feeling to have when you've only had positive experiences on psilocybin. I take them alone because I treat them as a sacrament. Like the body of Gaia, to communicate with Gaia.

And I know this bit just sounds like Guardians of the Galaxy II, but what if the idea was right, that the planet becomes conscious first, as a celestial body, then propagates life, and eventually more and more complex creatures until it propagates a species that is also conscious? Maybe that's why religion is so ingrained in humans. But over the millions of years, there may have been many humanoid civilizations on this planet, that every so often gets wiped out by a planetwide catastrophe. The matrix is the planet, and we are the simulated life of the prime consciousness of Gaia? That's something I've only been rolling around for a couple of weeks.

That's really interesting. When I get that anxious feeling on the come up, I've often thought of it as my ego panicking – it knows its losing control and it's not happy about it. And when I enter rough patches in hyperspace it sometimes feels like I'm confronting my conditioning and programming, and I'm being granted an opportunity to transcend them.

I too subscribe to the Gaia theory...I feel like I've directly experienced it through psilocybin and DMT. And as our cells are us, so we are Earth/Gaia.

This is prior to the point where ego might dissolve, like in the first hour after taking them. And it doesn't happen every time if I take them frequently. Like every time I take them for the first time in a long time.

Fossils are not at all rare. At all. I am quite litterally, right now, walking on a crushes gravel path of ancient marine life fossils. Nearly every rock. I love mear fossil bay, i walk under cliffs of fossils. There is an island made of fossils off the coast, all the hills around me have fossils on them. Fossils are not rare.

You have a lot of mis information and questionable claims there, but to claim fossils are rare, irked the crap out of me. Theres plenty of fossils. Maybe not of everything, or exciting ones, but most are in the ground and will never be dug up anyway; but they are common as muck.

Do the math. How many fossils are there vs. how many animals existed. Very specific conditions must exist to fossilize bones well enough to last millions of years. Yes, there are literally a lot of fossils, but fossilization as a ratio of all the creatures who have ever lived is exceedingly rare. There are more fossils of invertebrates because those are the creatures most likely to end up in a sedimentary layer.

That doesnt make fossils rare. They arent. For sure the process is rare with a lot of animals and plants, but fossils are common.

Then I misspoke. Fossilization is rare.

Excellent post friendo,

You seem to be spot on as far as I can tell.

Where could I read more about this, particularly the density and STS/STOs?

cassiopaea.org

It's a rabbit hole.

That was a trip. Thank you!

I find it fits in with Gnosticism quite well.

interesting

you need to be aware that posting something like this is going to attract problems

cults don't happen to like other new cults forming lol

i have myself seen evidence for some of the things you are saying

read my comments and my steemit work if you are more curious about what i've seen

If a cult forms around what I've put together, it won't be led by me.

Some people claim the Cassiopaean Experiment is a cult. It is not, but the claim that it is has been tied to a CIA asset who infiltrated their group.

I think plenty of people have also claimed that the Ra Material and people surrounding it are a cult. As far as I know they aren't.

Now, Castaneda's remaining followers have this thing called Tensegrity, which from what I understand is supposed to teach people the movements the sorcerers of old used to enter and communicate with the Spirit World/Umbra, etc. using it to pierce the veil. Their website kind of strikes me as cult like.

Regardless of how true overall each one of these groups information is, there is a certain amount of truth to be found and put together in each that paints a clearer picture of what's happening in the world.

The scary thing is that "forbidden" artifacts, biblical stories, mythology, and most importantly, modern science, all contribute to verifying the story.

If we're a species with amnesia, I'm merely a cell in the body of the whole working to help the brain regain its memories, while holding an awareness that once I have those memories, I have to deal with that new reality. That's actually something Don Juan Matus warned about. Once you know the predator, once you regain your cloak of awareness, you have not reached the end of you journey, but the beginning, and you must deal with the predator, as you will both be aware of one another and have to navigate the same space, and your awareness is food for the predator.

Story

Can you tell us or me more by pm or post

It's really a long story so I'll keep this short. I got a job working for a cult. Said cult has a furniture shop. The boss of said shop is a genuine asshole. Some of them were nice but in general the men were racist assholes. Normally I'm not a judgmental person but these people are shady as fuck and in my eyes are a huge question mark on the grand chess board. Narrow minded hard core collectivists. Isolationists, Materialists. Nepotism. Inbreeding/Possible eugenics program. German. Huge farming operations. Communists. It was strange working for them and eventually the atmosphere got really toxic. I knew I wouldn't be working there forever so I decided that before I quit or got fired I would fuck with them and try to get as many to leave the cult as possible and hopefully to demoralize the rest. And fuck with them I did. Subtly at first and overtly in the end in an epic take this job and shove it moment. That night I was attacked by two shadow people. They came out of nowhere and it was the last thing expected. By attack I think they were just trying to scare me but being more fascinated than scared I stood my ground and they left.

The next day I was approached by two federal agents who wanted to question me. I'm not sure whether they were sent to intimidate me into keeping my mouth shut, or if they wanted information about the cult. Either way I refused to talk to them without a lawyer. They asked me point blank if I was a terrorist and I laughed at them. A couple weeks later I was full on attacked by a hooded shadow entity with glowing red eyes, what could be described as a Jinn. It was the most terrifying experience ever. Like I could feel it feeding off my terror through my eyes... More on that in another reply...

Damn dude thank you, it must've taken a lot out of you ever thought of writing a book or making a video about your experience.

Little late, but since I was a kid I’ve always had an infatuation with “Jinn” culture and lore. Can you go into detail what it is you saw exactly? And why do you think it’s Jinn?

Weird how “fire people” existed in recorded history in a couple of different civilizations, then they just disappear

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=dBrUj2cl&id=1C97327849213957AE7C201C8C0886A5819A0800&thid=OIP.dBrUj2clD81wnUldIa4cuwHaLN&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fimg1.wikia.nocookie.net%2f__cb20130514115313%2ftheunitedgamers%2fimages%2f8%2f8c%2fHooded_figure.jpg&exph=566&expw=374&q=Hooded+Figure+with+Red+Eyes&simid=608026049886948563&selectedIndex=12&ajaxhist=0

This is an accurate picture of what I saw. A smokey billowing hooded figure with flaming red eyes. This entity terrified me, it manifested out of thin air and stared into my eyes with fierce glowing red eyes that seemed to crackle with energy. I could feel it literally feeding of my terror through my eyes. It felt like it was almost as scared of me as I was it. After it scared the shit out of me it communicated telepathically something along the lines of a warning that I had over stepped some karmic boundary, that it was testing my resolve and it was curious about my motivations and intentions. I think it was a Jinn because Jinn is the closest phenomena to being able to explain what I saw. It was inhuman but very intelligent. It seemed to be female.

I don’t doubt anything you’re saying. This is wild to me!

All judgement aside, what was your state of mind during this experience? Were you sober? I’ve heard of very similar things with other people under certain mind altering states. Have you dabbled?

During this specific experience I was sober and completely awake though I will admit that I've done mushrooms a number of times and that they are a huge part of blowing my mind wide open to the supernatural and paranormal. For two weeks before this experience I had been in an elevated state of mind (due to a intense "dark night of the soul" type event) that bordered on psychosis but by the time this experience occurred I was more or less back to a normal level state of mind.

Very interesting. Thank you so much for the details

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Don't preach to me kid. I nearly went to seminary school 20+ years ago, and you don't know what you're talking about. I also own an original box set of that game.

What's Castaneda?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

hey man, you're awesome. Heads up

This is the most rational belief of spiritual conspiracy thought. While some cry doom, that we are controlled by every aspect of our reality, and others know of spiritual things but not the darker side, this acknowledges the universal penetration/creation of love but accepts that many chose to serve themselves and the hierarchy that entails. That's why the Ra material is so good, it's completely level headed and explains the light and darkness in a way that directly correlates to what we see and feel on earth.

As above, so below.

I think substances like DMT can help us make contact with these type of beings.

I've done that, and I've had a telepathic conversation with an entity that I believe to have been Anansi. (This was prior to having read American Gods and before the show was announced, so it was not a pop culture reference that might have triggered this.) It was a giant wire-frame spider. Like, size of a city block to me, huge. I don't remember much but starting to ask a lot of questions then realizing I already know the answers but can only understand them outside of the corporeal body, and that when I return to cradle of existence, I'll again have all the knowledge I need to decide my next leg of the path. It was comforting, like being safe at home.

Anyway, I prefer psilocybin to DMT for several reasons, including that psilocybin seems to be more of a teacher than other psychedelic substances. I prefer to be able to become aware of my actual surroundings if necessary. I can take time to experiment with concepts one mushrooms. DMT is a different thing, and has it's time and place, but it's so fast it's almost a trauma to have that experience in that short amount of time.

I think this is the true master conspiracy against the human race.

Explains elite satanism, the conspiracy of continued violence and destruction that continues in our world.

Most of history seems to have been cobbled together by liars and agents of the crown less than 500 years ago - check out the books of A Fomenko

+1 To this, ancient and alternative history is where a lot of rabbit holes lead to.

Don't mention you know who or the thread will probably disappear

You just mentioned that dude

of what crown

A Fomenko is famous for basically saying all of history is a fraud, a cover-up of a giant, globe spanning Russian civilization called the Horde or something like that. All of history as we know it has been rewritten to exclude and point away from this fact, for whatever reason. After looking into his methodology and how he "matches" historical figures and narratives, I don't really subscribe to the theory per se, but stolen and lost history is an intriguing subject nonetheless and there are other, more compelling things to look into.

Like catastrophism in general or specifically mud floods (theory is history is covering up the fact that civilizations are completely fucked and wiped out due to natural catastrophe more often than not.) Check out r/CulturalLayer if that stuff floats your boat.

what is this HORDE.

And where is it now?

IIRC it's like the horde of Genghis Khan but on steroids and Russian and like 1000x bigger and it was like a global deal. And idk you're guess is as good as mine. While I think Fomenko was totally a genius, I'm of the opinion most of his "lost history" stuff is cherry picked and manipulated data

Aside from overwhelming quantities of physical evidence for plenty of historical civilisations and events extending more than 500 years back. Much of which you can actually go and visit or view yourself,and would require tens of thousands of hsitorians to be falsifying carbon dating records, and tens of thousands of others manufacturing fake artifacts and structures, the real problem with this theory is that there is almost nothing to gain from falsifying hhistory. The cost to benefit makes no sense, and occams razor implies historical artifacts are not fabricated.

I'm not here to debate a theory I already do t support, thanks for the comment though fella

/r/AlternativeHistory plug

Thanks for throwing this out there.

It's run by a bunch of solid users and has been wayyy more educational/entertaining for me.

I like this. Thanks.

Thanks for this I didn't know sub existed.

Someday /u/RMFN will let me help mod there. Any other sub on their sidebar is gold and I guarantee you'll level up if you incorporate them into your feed/diet.

Realizing how completely deceptive the corporate media is has made me question a lot of my perceptions of history. They write the first draft of history, and these moneyed influences have ALWAYS controlled the means of communication. Our understanding of history is whitewashed to hide politically inconvenient facts, which is exactly how the "mainstream" media works too.

With how deeply just advertising goes to manipulate people... I kind of wonder if there's much free will left in the world...

I know that history as it's taught is either false or just the tiniest perspective of what actually happened and that most of it has been falsified. Especially anything before 1500's, but I can't believe the idea that 1000 years have been just added into the books.

Can you point me to a quicker introduction to the topic than a book? Are there any good summary videos on youtube or anything? What's this theory called?

It's an extremely huge amount of research - Basically, Fomenko traces the fraud and total lack of primary sources on many allegedly ancient civilizations and attempts to line up their encounters with various celestial phenomenon and other markers to create a coherent timeline - and he found out that no one had done this before, and that the previous timeline was put together, like I said, by liars and known agents.

It's all in the introduction to his book - there are a few podcasts I've found, but none are very good. I'm also not very far into the book - Only 50 pages or so.

Fomenko himself is a career Mathematician, so he's trying to apply different mathematical types of analyses to history - and that's where he was able to verify the suspicions of many others - it turns out Isaac Newton, for instance, had written a book critiquing the old chronology - his work was called "The Chronology of Ancient Kingdoms Amended" - and there have been others over the centuries who have found the same things. It was chiefly put together by a guy named Scaliger and his accomplice Petavius in the 16th century. Many others have called out their frauds.

He comes to many extremely strange seeming conclusions and the book really is a trip - as is just about all of his research that I've found so far.

Jan Irvin has a few podcasts on Fomenko material - they are ok as an introduction but even in 5-6 podcasts Jan Irvin is really only summarizing the summaries - still leaving out so much.

Jan Irvin talking about Fomenko research on his podcast series, Unspun - playlist, 6 episodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFpqZ0niaho&list=PLa3bLMRvk6HpbBCuByobFAtuIY2BjxFkU

Totally this! I have read all of Fomenko's 50+ books, hence my username. I translated most of the books from Russian myself. His group's theories are very solid and backed up by 40+ years of scientific research and thousands of references.

ha, wow - Thanks for commenting!

I'm still on book 1 - do you know if there are any dedicated communities or forums or subreddits or anything - dedicated to discussing his work? I'm very intrigued and would love to participate in such a place!

Unfortunately communities or forums in English which are dedicated to New Chronology are practically non-existent. This theory is not very well-known in the west, despite Fomenko having sold millions of copies of the books in Russia and Germany.

There is a subreddit but it is not active at all, the last post was 3 months ago - r/newchronology/

The official Fomenko website has an English page with lots of info and a few more books translated into English and available in full ("Tsar of the Slavs", "How It Was In Reality") as well as a few more technical texts around the middle of the page - http://chronologia.org/en/index.html

Book 2 of "History: Fiction or Science?" is also available in full on Google books.

Wow - It seems like this material is so important I hope some major English speaking discussion pages arise eventually. If I had some more expertise I'd be happy to try and organize something myself. Will definitely be continuing this research, thank you so much for the information!

And the real Jerusalem is actually within Moscow.

BINGO! this is the shit we need here!

Lies and fabrications throughout history is easy to believe. The idea that one guy fabricated all of history and evidence? That's a little unbelievable.

Fred Phelps (founder of the Westboro Baptist Church) was actually incredibly progressive, and founded the church to act as a “necessary evil.” If you look into his history, he was actually a lawyer during the Jim Crow era, and fought against segregation.

And was kicked out of the church while on his deathbed.

I don't know that even if that conspiracy is true, that his action are redeemable or forgivable, for the pain and suffering they caused when people were already suffering enough.

I've considered that possibility, but abandoned it in the light of how abusive he was to his family, and also how he systematically drove away the bulk of his congregation during his first years as pastor at WBC.

Can you elaborate?

Here's a 1994 longform expose that interviews both former members of his congregation and a few of his estranged adult children. One story that sums out how he both treated his family and alienated the entire congregation of his church (driving them away until almost no one remained but his own family) is:

One from that time recalls Fred, Marge, 2 year-old Fred, Jr., and 10 month-old Mark were in the pews one Sunday with the rest of the congregation, listening to Cavin preach. Mark began squirming suddenly. To the appalled amazement of his fellow worshippers nearby, the junior pastor repeatedly slapped the infant across the face with an open palm and backhand, snapping Mark's tiny head to and fro. Afterwards, several of the men in the congregation confronted Fred and told him never to do that again. Mark Phelps laughs to hear that story relayed: "My mom once told me-proudly, as if she'd effected a big change in his behavior-that my father had beaten my older brother when he was only five months old. She said she'd argued with him about it and he'd agreed to hold off beating the kids till they were a year old."

Oh, but here's a little anecdote that tells us how he really felt about his black clients

During their teenage years, both Mark and Nate worked as law clerks in their father's office. "When a black client was in there," recalls Nate, "my father would play the 'DN' game with us. It stands for 'dumb nigger'. We would all try to use the acronym as often as possible in the presence of the person involved." In the 1983 interview with the Wichita Eagle-Beacon, Phelps intoned, echoing Abraham Lincoln: "The air of the United States is too pure for racial prejudice to keep going, and the nation can't long endure half-slave and half-free. There is not any doubt that the problems of this country derive, in my humble opinion, from the way this country continues to treat black people." But according to his sons in California, part of the theology of the Old Calvinism Fred taught held that blacks were a subservient race because they were the sons of Ham, the son of Noah.

necessary evil

What do you mean by this? Like they tried to fabricate an example of homophobia? You definitely don't need to fabricate that.

Nobody is scared of gay people quit using that word

oh fuck off. I've lived in rural America for most of my life. there are still plenty of people who hate gays.

It's like the right thinks that if they pretend long enough that none of them hate gay people then somehow it becomes true.

Hate and fear is different.

Holy shit this is some next level homophobia apologia

Report those comments, or send me links to all of them, or ya...I will remove this comment. You have 20min.

user is myg0dd. Not all the comments were in this subreddit, but he's a participant of this subreddit.

ayy somebody paypal me 500 bucks because the mods don't want me to provide evidence homophobia exists.

Who said homophobia doesn't exist? I have a problem with your unverified allegations?

And for your info, when you post any derogatory words like are all over those comments we get a special modmail notification to inspect the comment. We are always going to show up when you post something like this.

Troll harder, and somewhere else.

I didn't say anything about hate. I said nobody is scared of homosexuals. Homophobia is probably the dumbest word people use regularly.

Maybe not scared in the sense of running away from gay people on the street, but of course there are people scared of the "gay agenda" and whatever ideals they interpret to go along with that.

That's not at all how I interpret that word and wtf is the gay agenda? Do you think there's collective plan for the future in the gay community?

No I don't believe that at all, but growing up in a rural area I've encountered many people who are scared of gay people eroding the fabric of society, or whatever. It's ignorant and ridiculous but the idea/fear definitely exists in some people.

And sure maybe homophobia is a misnomer in a sense, but come on, it's pretty obvious what the word actually means. "dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people"

Definition of homophobia : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

This is one of my want-to-be-true theories, too.

That basically their whole thing is extreme, absurdist, left-ist performance art. They propagate their message by taking things so far to the opposite extreme, that everyone has to hate them, therefor aligning with their actual causes. They’re so hated that they even get people to grass roots organize for progressive causes.

Which would actually be pretty impressive if true.

WBC got doxxed a few years ago and they found out that all of the members were family and they were all lawyers. My theory is that they protest controversial stuff so they can get banned and then sue.

Did they need to be doxxed for that? I thought that was all common knowledge. Not all members are the Phelps family, but most of them, all of whom are trained as lawyers. That's why they sue anyone who infringes on their free speech immediately.

It’s been a while since I’ve looked into WBC, but I think the members of the church were anonymous prior to the doxxing

bingo.

An example of Poe's law that got out of control?

That Avril Lavigne died 15 years ago

Here’s to never growing up :(

How was the disappearance of the replacement girl explained to her family and friends?

Surely that's the easiest part of this theory to accept?

isnt there a video of the nickleback guy saying that he divorced her cause he found out she really wasnt avril? He even mentions something about it again when he went on Howard Stern show.

What he said^. There are many a drifter in this world. Plenty of people to exist in the shadows without any tether to others. Or, you know, maybe they just cloned her? I dunno, they can always find a way. And by ‘they’, obviously I’m referring to band managers.

I believe...

Never heard of this.

When I googled it it gave me Snopes and other mainstream news outlets.

Got some links for me? Famous people being replaced with doppelgangers always get my interest.

Like miley cyrus being buried in the desert

explain...

Not for Avril, but there's been some crazy ass conspiracies that Andrew W.K. died a while ago and was replaced with a doppleganger.

Now, I don't actually believe this one, but the theories and reasonings behind them were fascinating to read. It's always interesting to break down how people come to the conclusions they do, even if they're flawed. It's like picking someone's brain and watching their thought process unravel. If nothing else, google it for an interesting read.

Is Alex Jones actually Bill Burr?

Bill Hicks wouldn’t do the sort of shit Jones does. He had more integrity than that.

Unless he’s performing the greatest comedy routine of all time

Ages don't add up.

the miley and avril body double images are out there, you are looking for an infographic

but you could do it yourself if you just found all the pictures and looked for the chance

the infographics i found are pretty fucking convincing and this is one of the most disturbing conspiracies out there

If you could imgur those infographs to me that would be cool. Gonna google some about it myself.

I knew the one about miley cyrus. Along with the "her body is buried on X coordinates" posts on 4chan.

Coo coo ca choo, Paul is dead, man.

Nephilim bloodlines

Has anyone in this family ever even seen a chicken?

I mentioned in another post that the best references are the ones only those in the know get. This is proof.

Of all the celebrity replacement theories, this is one of the more believable ones to me.

That UFO's, or "Aliens" as we think of them today aren't extra terrestrial, but are instead humans from a past civilization that reached high technology.

UDH.

Ultra-Dimensionial Human?

No, I'm dumb. Ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, and inter-dimensional hypothesis. I conflated the two terms, which are not mutually exclusive hypothesis. I happen to believe both are equally possible.

Can you give me the synopsis?

I conflated two anagrams. UTH (ultra-terrestrial hypothesis), which is the hypothesis that UAPs/UFOs are terrestrial (from earth) from an advanced race of humans/humanoids that are either sub-terranian, sub-marine, both, or from the future. IDH (inter-dimensional hypothesis), which is the hypothesis that UAPs/UFOs are from different layers of this dimension parallel to ours. Basically that they are always here but we can't see or interact with them because of the limited capacity of our brains to pierce the veil between the two.

In either case, the idea is that UAPs/UFOs are not interstellar or intergalactic. These also meshes with the idea that our solar system is quite populated.

There are different races, one of them could be such thing.

Or from the future.

Prior root races. Polars, Hyperboreans, Lemureans, Atlanteans, Humans. We're in the fifth age, the fifth iteration of the Great Year.

(That should be enough to get you well started.)

That Fallen angels are the aliens.

We are the only life in the universe and they are doing the alien thing to distract us.

When they come out in the open we will be so godless no one will question it.

Read "Childhood's end" by Isaac Asimov it will go down just like that.

I'm sorry. I just want to clarify. Are you saying that we are the only life in this universe is the conspiracy? Or that the belief that we aren't alone is?

I think it would be a delusion of grandeur to believe that we are so special that we are legitimately the only planet with intelligent life. I also find it asanine to believe we are the most advanced.

We're not even the most advanced on this planet, or anywhere close. We're babies.

I entirely agree. And it's my own personal pet theory that we aren't even as advanced as humans used to be.

Technologically? Sure. Bit I feel like ancient humans had... Something that we lost sight of.

Oh yeah, we lost something for sure, specifically knowledge of astrology and sacred geometry, and whatever else was destroyed in the burning of the Library of Alexandria. Have you read Graham Hancock? I'm a big fan of Graham's, and he's getting more acceptance as time goes on and his work around ancient Egypt and the comet/flood theory is taken more and more seriously.

Another writer who I love for his work on the ancient Gnostics and their understanding of vying alien factions is John Lash, who wrote "Not in HIS Image"- brilliant book. (Many of John's talks are uploaded to YouTube now too).

On the other hand, though, it seems that we humans today have something that we didn't have in the past, that could prove to be the game-wining technology, or at least I hope so: the internet.

I am a big fan of Hancock. He has helped to shape my worldview. I WL look into the rest of that though! Thanks for the heads up.

I'm sure you meant astronomy.

do you think one of the reasons civilization have gotten less advanced is theyve become more godless?

I'd bank on too narrowly god-oriented.

I'd say we're worshipping the wrong God. Most people believe in these Abrahamic religions, which posit a sky God whom we're supposed to live in fear of. I believe the true force of creation is very loving and gave us things like cannabis and DMT. Use these tools to grow and learn the truth about our world.

Graham is an awesome dude. What’s weird to me is how many scientists went out of their way to make personal insults to this guy when he was writing his books. Originally a lot of what he was saying was speculation, later to be proven with evidence, but despite all this several professors and geologists/archaeologist say he’s not smart and that he’s a hack. It’s just really weird to me. I don’t think this particular part is a conspiracy I just think that scientists who make it their life’s work to confirm their bias are not going to let other new ideas shit on them.

I think it's both. There's a lot of ego and clinging to old ideas that goes on in this society, especially among people who don't smoke weed, yes. But also the CIA has heavily infiltrated academia, probably more than Graham realizes. I would bet money that some of his most ardent critics, who spend a ton of time attacking him, are intelligence agents.

Regardless, Graham gets more attention and exoneration and time goes on. The scientific consensus seems to be leaning towards the comet-flood theory he detailed in "Magicians of the Gods."

But in my opinion the most important book he's written is his psychedelic book, "Supernatural: Meetings With the Ancient Teachers of Mankind." I don't have a lot of books that I call must-reads, but this is one.

i also think human civilization has gotten less advanced

Shocks me how many ancient people independently believed in the M-Brane theory of eternal recurrence. From Hindus, Norse pagans to Pythagoreanism all these people spoke of transcendence and a wheel of time with no contact with each other.

i think thats a lie thats been perpetuated .. i used to think that but now i firmly believe earth is a closed system/plane

What do you mean by angels and fallen?

Fallen angels are demons who let us think that at least some of them are extraterrestrial species

Fallen angels and demons are not one and the same. Demons are the disembodied spirits referred to in the bible as nephilim. (Genesis 6)

But they're the same thing, just without bodies. The fallen angels were told not breed with humans, those who did gave birth to the Giants and their bodies were taken from them for disobeying.

Fallen angels are the fathers of the giants. The giants became demons.

Why would extraterrestrial life meddling be so hard to believe?

What are called demons, as in evil entities banished to hell, are often understood in a judeo-Christian context to be “fallen angels” as in angels who rebelled from the service of god and fought a war against the loyal angels in Heaven, with Lucifer aka Satan as their leader. Then they got btfo by Michael and the rest and sent down to reign over but also be imprisoned in hell

This would require the judeo Christian god to exist, which is provably false

You show me yours and I’ll show you mine ;)

Alright, then prove it

Is disproving creation enough? Giraffe laryngeal nerve. It's an extreme example, but all mammals contain this flaw.

Because of an inefficiency in life is present, God is disproven? How does that make any sense, let alone disprove the existence of a cosmic being?

That's not proof, either. Observing something present in life doesn't immediately mean God or something similar doesn't exist.

Was he god of the dinosaurs too? They were around for way, way longer than us. Always been curious about that.

I'm saying that abrahamic religion is a cult under different celestial banners. A source may exist, and may desire to experience.

Sorry, but the giraffe's laryngeal nerve does not disprove God, at best it disproves intelligent design. There are plenty of people who believe in a God that created evolution and natural selection as the standard.

Is it a personal "god" with a name you must say with an evolved ape throat and cover yourself in that incarnated "god's" blood? That's where the whole book can go in the trash.

Ok

Yeah your definition of "provably false" is well uhh, provably false.

The book of 1 Enoch is well worth reading.

According to the Christian/Catholic Bible, the fallen angels are the third of the host of heaven who chose to follow Lucifer. They were cast out of heaven with him, and now they're called demons instead of angels.

This. Have you seen the documentary Age of Deceit?

who the fuck is fallen angels ? Bible is just a fucking interpretation of things that happened long time ago by people stupid enough who couldn't describe them right up straight.

They are the angeks that fell with satan when he rebelled against God.

holy shit this sub is full of idiots religious lunatics.

"Childhood's end" by Isaac Asimov

Arthur C. Clarke

Mandela Effect
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8utaha/what_is_the_most_unusual_conspiracy_theory_that/e1i5kdf/

I am a Christian and I witnessed an alien mothership over our local mall, my uncle saw it as well.. It only strengthened my belief in God.. I do however subscribe to the Nephilim theory.. I also believe it's asinine to assume we were the only intelligently created species with free will.

Why is it asinine to think we are the only intelligent beings?

IF we are created beings then there is every possibility that we are the first beings created in the universe, I mean someone had to be first, why not us?

Because at this point in the scenario, while yes it is a possibility our creator made us in 1 go round and nobody else before us no failed experiments even, forget the angels Nephilim and cherribum and other species mentioned in the Bible and also any other out there theories you could think of that are also possibility. Yeah it's possible we're the only ones, but extremely unlikely and we're just guessing at this point so who can say.

Read "Childhood's end" by Isaac Asimov it will go down just like that.

SciFi did a pretty good three piece miniseries version.

Childhood's End has stuck with me since reading it. I'm really intrigued about your theories on this...do you think this is related to the infamous plan for Project Bluebeam?

I 100% believe this one

God, that’d be nuts.

That Fallen angels are the aliens.

We are the only life in the universe and they are doing the alien thing to distract us.

Your first sentence contradicts with your second sentence which means you're not aware of what you're saying. Which means you're delusional and full of crap.

Oh yeah? well your mom eats jock straps

That we are ruled by degenerate Canaanites with a completely different moral code (or lack thereof) than our own.

Nephilim bloodlines.

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. Daniel 2:42

Very nice quote. I'm usually not a big believer in the supernatural, but I remain open-minded.

Vampires!

Do you know how the Vampire myths started? Ashkenazi jews were expelled from some country forcing them to migrate. Ashkenazis are said to drink blood. Within 5 years of them being expelled the first rumors of vampires came around.

Myth my backside. 2 years ago in Poland they found coffins with bodies in them with stakes where the heart was, with warning letters.

Really wow can you dig up a link for me please

I don't know how to post a link from my phone,but it was in the daily mail. It's still on there as I just googled vampire corpses and it came up pronto.

Also some in Bulgaria too.

It is a myth. Your story only proves someone believed in vampires and drove a stake through someone's corpse either due to suspicious or to ensure they won't become one.

Im saying it actually happened, but they werent vampires. Just jews.

im not sure about that. drinking blood and cannibalism was pretty common in mideval europe.

They also have that weird foreskin ritual where a rabbi cuts the baby and then sucks their blood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO3s2GkzdBw

Check out Genesis 6 Conspiracy by Gary Wayne.

Daniel 2:42 is talking about transhumanism I think.

Fuck, Daniel Tiger is woke.

Or weren't the skeletons of ancient people much smaller than the current average human? Maybe we are the Niphilim and those in power don't want us to know our full potential so they indoctrinate us with all the bullshit and pump us full of chemicals to keep us docile. Kind of would play into alternate history theory as well.

Lucifer

The fallen from prior root races. Would you rather serve in heaven or rule in hell?

The fallen, Satanic faction of prior root races (Atlanteans, etc). The angelic faction is exploring the stars. Would you rather serve in heaven or rule in hell?

The Kingdom rules over us.

We stopped teaching cursive writing in schools because all our founding documents are written in cursive. One hundred years from now we won't have any rights because no one will be able to read the constitution and will only know what the government tells them.

Damn. That's dark. I only use makeshift cursive for my signature.

My signature has become a scribble with only two recognizable cursive letters.

Lol mine is bastardized initials.

Mine is similar. First initial, second initial, squiggly bit symbolizing my last name.
What gets me is when I was signing my mortgage papers they said my signature had to be legible so I could not write it like that. I told them if I made it legible it wouldn’t be my signature. I don’t know what that means for the legality of my mortgage.

Legally, you’re signature does not have to be legible or even a word. Like I could sign a document with a drawing of a duck and that’s my signature. Just as long as I sign all documents that way.

Just as long as you can prove it’s your signature, you’re fine and the document is valid. Courts don’t really care if the signature is illegible on a document, just that it is your signature.

I was going to say, I consult with some high power business dudes from time to time throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars around with the stroke of a pen signing off on some projects. Some of their signatures I would DEFY you to even be able to figure out the first or last initials. They are literally just overdrawn squiggles.

My signature is weird, messy, conjoined printing.

I feel this is an odd occurrence in America. IFAIK rest of the English speaking world still uses cursive. As a Brit it's just natural to me and a lot quicker than block writing each letter.

Also I hear the reading of analogue clocks is becoming a rarer skill in America ? But maybe that's true in Britain also.

No joke, I was just talking to co-workers with kids two weeks ago about how kids today can't read analog clocks. One said the school his kid goes to was thinking about removing all the analog clocks because of this. I was seriously shocked... shouldn't a school TEACH that skill instead of just removing them? But it's probably not on a standardized test so they didn't even consider that option...

That's crazy to me. My kids started with analog clocks in kindergarten and they hammer it until the middle of second grade.

But why would you teach a skill that isn't actually valuable in everyday life? I'd rather our schools taught financial literacy than cursive and analog clock reading.

You're not wrong about that but I don't see many schools teaching financial literacy or practical life skills.

Some are starting to from what I understand. But even if they don't, that's no reason to continue teaching outdated things. Slide rules aren't still taught for a reason. Or fire starting with flint and steel (except as a survival skill/history lesson)

We improve and advance because of problem solving skills. Analogue clocks are an easily solvable problem and there is always a correct answer.

It is a teaching tool that helps children open their minds.

Guess that makes sense. Applied fractions and stuff.

Writing and telling the time are valuable skills.

They taught it when I was a child, but the general prevalence of digital clocks made it difficult for many children to pick up the skill.

I'm a teacher. We still teach analog clocks, but sadly not cursive.

clocks allow people to feel in contol, you know what time it is, how much time you have left. removing clocks makes people more submissive, helpless, and easier to control.

schools probably dropped off cursive writing due to a lack of funds and time. public education, education in general is under attack. schools dont have the resources to focus on subjects that are not immediately necessary.

Not just America. Canada too. Nobody gives a shit about it anymore. Though I don't subscribe to the theory that not knowing cursive will make documents indecipherable.

Yeah I always see Americans bitching about having to learn "cursive" and how it isn't important. Here in the UK we just learned "joined up writing" and it's something everyone used for most of their school life, just as a default. It's just the way you're taught to write.

Canadian here. We had a two hour lesson on it in fourth grade, never mentioned it again.

The founding documents are so faded you can’t read them anyway.

and freakin nick cage destroyed them with lemon juice

Believe it or not a lot of millennials learn cursive for fun. Also I don't think it's far enough removed from print to be read. I can read a document written in calligraphy or printed with odd letters in a press. Cool theory but I think anyone with enough brainpower to want to read these documents will do so. The language is already wonky compared to modern English.

Millennials learned cursive as part of school curriculum. It's only been abandoned in very recent years. If anything, millennials are now teaching their children cursive.

all of it has been translated into print

shit we got em good

Fake news.

Yeah, I think we’ll manage to decode it, just like we do with other ancient script.

You couldn’t read it today if you tried. The constitution is so faded you can barely even tell if there’s writing on it, so this theory doesn’t make any sense.

Except the Constitution has been translated to other languages, written about in detail in books using regular text, and have been rewritten in regular text as well.

Are you sure it doesn't say "right to pear farms"?

The constitution and declaration of independence are already available in other formats. Personally, I don't see the need to write in cursive, but I do think it should be taught in terms of being able to read it. For some of us, especially those with ADHD/ADD, cursive just doesn't click in terms of writing. If all writing is done in "printing" all your life, it can be as fast as cursive for someone who mostly uses cursive. The only sort of "cursive" that ever stuck for me was the cursive italic by Getty and Dubay. If I think really hard, I can write my name in regular cursive that was taught to me in 2nd grade, but I never really used again. I can read cursive without issue, however.

Do people who've never learned cursive really find it impossible to read cursive?

Seems like it would require a very minimal amount of effort. That scheme would just be completely ineffective.

They would have to destroy every print copy as well as any material that teaches cursive....

Was just talking about this last night 🤔

That's stupid as hell though because everything is also in regular print everywhere on the internet and history books so why would we ever lose it

We have the internet and training to write cursive is on the internet

So is everything else. It's important to require a working knowledge of some things. There could be a day when we can't just whip our phone out and google anything and everything.

Fuck you you just made us all start using cursive again.

My son just finished 4th grade. He learned cursive in 3rd. He goes to a public city school with a rather low budget in Pennsylvania. So, after a quick google search, it appears cursive is making a come back as of 2017(ish)? Certain states have made legislation requiring cursive to be taught in schools.

whats a pen?? tap tap tap

This is just retarded. You don't think those documents have been written in print and scanned and copied and spread all over the internet?

The kid that I nanny learned cursive in school this year? (Also analog clocks, I saw that mentioned too)... we still have printed versions of old documents that would be hard to locate 100% to destroy, especially within 100 years.

The universe is electric. There was no big bang. There are no black holes. There is no dark matter.

electric universe theory is very interesting but lately I've been leaning toward the E8 lattice and the emergence Theory

The big bang was a big crunch. We are traveling backwards through time, because we are made of antimatter.

Please tell me there's somewhere I can read more about this.

Never heard of "The universe is electric", but I absolutely believe there was no SINGLE big bang. I DO believe in black holes, in terms of a very VERY large 'star' that has long ago burned off the easy (exothermic) fuel (hydrogen), and is now just a really large ball of mass fusing heavy elements, until it eventually big-bangs itself. I think dark matter/energy and string theory are all just exotic attempts at making explaining observations that dont match expected values. In terms of understanding the universe, we are still in the dark ages. 1000 years from now, they will laugh at our 'big bang theory', the way we laugh at ancient theories from 1000 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ThunderboltsProject/videos

I think that time is hard to understand, and that our perception of time is flawed. I think it's possible that we're just currently in one state of being right now between "big bangs." Time is a constant cycle of matter ebbing and flowing in and out, and that we're in an infinite cycle of big bangs. Is it a simulation being carried out an infinite number of times, or is it just the nature of the reality we live in? Not sure.

Big Bang was disproved by Halton Arp decades ago

When you pull your pc plug from out of its outlet, you just turned a free flowing circuit into a closed one. I think we were closed, like our materials and components were there, just dormant. Then someone plugged us in and turned the simulation on. All of these components now have a new ingredient that turns them alive and makes them do magical shit.

There’s totally something there. You can combine the electric universe theory with simulation hypothesis pretty easily. It makes total sense

God as the watchmaker.

Matt Groening came from the future.

Cool

You don't really believe this, right?

Found MG's reddit account

I wish

Some of his predictions are bullshit...

I'm a sucker for the celebrity conspiracies like Beyonce's pregnancies being fake, the recent hanging and overdose deaths might be connected for whatever reason, or anything to do with the Weinstein scandal. But I think my favorite conspiracy that matters is the timeline and lack of info on the Las Vegas shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOFxB8BrvHU

Is this guy fuckin retarded?

Yeah that Las Vegas shooting, kept changing the story, now I think they just gave up.

The most plausible explanation I've found for the Vegas shooting is that it was an assassination attempt on the crown prince of Saudie Arabia who got away. If you follow their news the next few weeks after were insane. Now they are letting women drive and allowing movie theaters to open up. It's a regime change for sure. But the US can't go to war over it because as a general rule the US is for the changes taking place. The crown prince wants to modernize. His uncles and former billionaire leaders aren't big fans and would rather keep with the old ways and suck up all the oil money. It's awful that innocent people got caught up in it. It's also awful the extent they have all gone to cover it all up.

I heard of this too and totally believe it.

I thought the arms deal gone wrong and the assassination attempt were both plausible explanations. It still bothers me that the truth is out of reach.

The arms dealing makes 0 sense with more plot holes than we have fingers and toes

Not really. He sets up the deals in a Vegas hotel because of the traffic and luggage then either gets paid in chips or trades in for chips to help legitimize the cash flow. Any discrepencies are written off through his real estate dealings.

Arms dealers won't deal in large ammo too in the same place and time

Why would they not deal in accompanying ammo? Genuine question as I know nothing of large scale illegal arms trafficking. They can't be worried about whatever additional charges would come from dealing both?

The real money is in guns, ammo is trinkets and bulky. Why would an arms dealer sells guns, the ammo all preloaded into magazines for the buyer? We’re not even talking bulk ammo sealed in a box but ready to fire in the same place with the guns too. Does that make sense to you and as the seller would you want to take those risks?

arms deal does not work, those rifles were not on display and they were all nearly the same model

an assault team threw those weapons down when they GTFO

not just that but a vegas casino would be a horrible place for a large scale arms deal unless you were basically hotel security itself

arms deal for some terrorist proxy fighting in Syria. brought into Vegas by Saudi crown prince avoiding customs due to diplomatic immunity. went buy a large shipment of weapons that was arranged for them. but they didn't vet them well enough and when they showed up to conclude the handover they shot the US payrolled dealer and unloaded everything they had in arms reach and ran. the news story was a cover and pinned it on paddock.

Can we get some links? I'd love to read up on this more.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2017/11/saudi-arabia-crackdown-171107145857607.html

The Al Jezeera article is one of many during that time. I don't have time to post them all. Feel free to look up some of the buzzwords and see what you find. It's just pieces to a big puzzle hence the fact it's a conspiracy and not proven fact. Kushner went on a spur of the moment trip to SA around the same time too after the shooting.

Thank you!

But why would anyone conspire to cover up an actual assassination attempt let alone turn it into an improvised massacre?

Easier to believe the big lie? Also, assassinations are usually precursors to big wars. Let's just blame it on some crazy shooting up a crowd. Though yeah, it would honestly fit into a James Bond or John Wick scene in a heart beat.

I'm not going to trade a lie for another lie or story just so I believe in some angle of the event. The most famous assassinations in history such as Lincoln, MLK, or JFK weren't precursors to war.

So you're claiming a brutal massacre was improvised on civilians to hide an assassination because that could lead to war?

Each one of those assassination you listed are by people born in the same country as the assassin. Who would we go to war with in that case? Trust me it would be very choatic if a foreign ruler was murdered in the US.

What does covering an assassination attempt on a foreign ruler have anything to do with an improvised civilian massacre? Surely the prince in this scenario would have already been aware.

Idk, my point was just that those assassinations u mentioned were different in nature and therefore wouldn't have the same affect as a foreigner getting killed.

Ok then you took the straw man way out in respect to the actual point

The majority of your original comment was your strawman so that's on you

Give an example. I’m calling straw man on you because the twice question is why covor an assassination attempt and you’re making an argument about nationality. It’s an interesting point but not addressing the overarching question or argument.

I didn't make the original argument, ask him. Your comment supposed that an assassination attempt on a foreign leader is no different than a domestic assassination attempt which is false. I honestly don't care about the overarching question however the fact that the majority of your original comment was addressing a point that was false most likely suggest that you are just generally wrong.

You’re taking logical short cuts. It’s true that a nation doesn’t want foreign political assassinations on their soil. That truth doesn’t qualify another truth that both a civilian massacre and cover up happened because a nation doesn’t want to be linked to foreign assassination.

You're not reading, as I said I'm not making that argument only the argument that a foreign political assassination could lead to war. Reading comprehension is a must, I don't care about that argument simply because it would need more proof for that to be a viable reason.

It certainly doesn’t seem like most assassinations lead to war, you are right. However, most assassinations probably never make it to public consciousness. The very poorly executed ones, like the recent Korean attack in the airport, occasionally do. Unless you’re a CIA operative, it’s hard to say anything about “most assassinations”.

I asked OP of this comment if the crown prince was actually at that country western concert.

But, assuming he was,

it's not a dumb idea. "Oh look, another one of those United States "mass shootings""

There is security footage of a man resembling the crown prince with an entourage at another nearby casino leaving the premises during the time of the shooting.

Resembling, sure, but I doubt he'd be dressed like [such a schlub](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=niBgnjtMSsg

but why would there be a dude protected like this if he wasn't a big deal?

He looks like an undercover cop

Dress like a schlub to fit in with the schlubs. One attempt at explaining what happened said that the prince went across the street to gamble and didn’t want any attentions I he dressed casual. The assassination attempt failed because it was unknown at the time that the prince was not in his room. I believe the prince was staying in the same hotel as where the shooting took place but was in the penthouse suite (which is subsequently owned by some billionaire of Arab decent that had some connection as well).

Not sure what to think regarding any of it tbh. There’s really no evidence to suggest anything strongly (this video being one of the most questionable pieces of evidence from the event imo).

Most realistic explanation I’ve come to is that the dude was off his rocker but also involved in some sort of governmental body’s investigation (arms dealing seems too obvious) and the details are remaining a secret because he wasn’t the one at the top that they wanted...it’s probably loophole legal to withhold all kinds of evidence in ongoing investigations.

My running theory is that Stephen Paddock was doing something shady for the FBI/CIA/both. Probably illegal arms sales to cartels and other criminals. Unless you want to go with "He stayed rich from video poker." As somebody said on that, "You don't play video poker to make money; but you might play it to *launder* money."

Paddock then snapped and shot the concert up, OR someone Paddock was dealing arms with set him up, killed him, and shot the concert up. One of the running theories on Option B is that this was ISIS, a terror attack.

In either scenario, it's rather clear why the government would want to shut down probing deeper. What's really dismaying to me is how the media has just gone along with it. Basically, if somebody with an agenda isn't anonymously leaking something to a "reporter" simply taking dictation, the media is about useless.

dude really?

you think CNN could report 'a squad of assasins blew the shit out of a casino while failing to assasinate a saudi arabian prince and the stray bullets shot a bunch of people'

why cover this up? wow, think that through

Dude critical thinking? Why would anyone be shooting within the casino at such a steep slope to the ground? Gunfire would be closer to parallel to the floor this supposed assaination was taking place. The civilian massacre wouldn’t have transpired due to sheer bullet drop and bullet spray would have been been more in a radius, not concentrated out two windows.

that is your idea of critical thinking? lol you can't be real

no investigation was done on the bullet trajectories, your assumptions are laughable, so much so i can't take you seriously as a person so bye

The math was quite simple and scientific. 320 feet up and nearly 1000 feet between the hotel and concert accounting for a slope of 40 degrees. We know that much about the bullet trajectory. Enjoy your bubble

There are some videos and eye witness accounts that say the bullets were coming from many different places all around the venue. One lady at the concert for sure was shot in the stomach straight on. It went out her back. There were shots fired at the front of the Bellagio 40 minutes after the shots sprayed the concert down the street. Some say they saw a blacked out stealth helicopter as well. Some witnesses who made it safely home died mysteriously the following week after trying to talk about it.

Which videos specifically show gunfire coming from many different places? This isn't supported by the taxi video or the fact that most people in the crowd didn't move for a couple of minutes because the gunfire was muffled in the distance. I've heard black helicopters on the Mandalay Bay theory but there's no helipad on the Mandalay Bay roof.

This is the most plausible explanation you've seen??

Jesus christ

It's just a theory. Feel free to look into it.

is that it was an assassination attempt on the crown prince of Saudie Arabia who got away.

So, the crown prince was attending that country western concert?

The theory I read was that yes he was in town and staying at Mandalay Bay. During the concert he went in plain clothes to the Tropicana to gamble and they lost him.

The entire event was fake. Stephen Paddock also played his brother. The gun shots were fake. The crowds were fake. The whole thing was fake. Here's an extensive write up by an independent researcher. http://mileswmathis.com/lasveg.pdf

Please tell my now traumatized coworker that the concert he went to was fake and that he was a crisis actor because that would be news to him.

And then tell me how I'm a shill for saying this.

I think her first pregnancy was fake / surrogate, but the second was real.

I believe her first pregnancy was 100% done by a surrogate. With the twins I don't think she faked it but I do think she heavily photoshopped herself to look more flattering, especially that first post pregnancy pic she released.

More likely she paid someone to heavily photoshop her instead

The way her belly folded in that one video as she's sitting down is just odd. I've been pregnant, I've know loads of other pregnant women with varying pregnancies (some who are very visible, some who you never would have guessed, etc) and I have just never seen a pregnant belly fold like that.

Can I get a link to that? Every time I hear about Beyonce, I just immediately think of the maternity ward being on lockdown and how that one father was kept from seeing his own kid.

Here you go.

Took for my child to be born, see through a woman's eyes Took for these natural twins to believe in miracles

Jay-Z , 4:44 - 4:44

There was no Las Vegas shooting as my posts have demonstrated.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7jbmcn/complete_this_sentence_or_meet_your_doom_the/

Since newnationalist.com wrote an article about my work on this subject, the number of shills on this very sub claiming to have a personal connection to a Las Vegas victim has grown to well over 40 users. None provided any evidence and no evidence of a shooting has emerged since last October.

Yeah. 500 people in a crowd of a couple of thousand who witnessed it first hand just fell to the ground and started bleeding profusely for no fucking reason.

Obviously.

Are you able to demonstrate one of the “victims” bleeding profusely in a way that can’t more easily be explained by Hollywood special effects?

For instance, clear imagery or video of a bleeding open wound.

Instead of, say, a trickle of some reddish fluid emanating from reservoir tubing in someone’s pants.

Stop.

I checked your comment three times for evidence. Here is what I found:

What do you want me to do? Go back in time, go to the crime scene, scrape some blood and bullets off the ground, and deliver it to your door?

There is nothing that would satisfy you anyway. You could have been there while it was happening and you would have convinced yourself it was all special effects.

This is quite literally a waste of time.

just fell to the ground and started bleeding profusely for no fucking reason.

I’m asking you to provide evidence that supports the extraordinary claim you made up there ^

Can you do that, or not?

uh, well, damn, you got me... that very clearly isn't what happened

they obviously fell to the ground bleeding because they were shot

Don’t be silly. I’m not taking your hyperbole literally, or nitpicking fine details here.

Can you provide evidence that anyone was “bleeding profusely”?

sigh

Why should I have to? Why should I have to go take my time out of my day to go find the videos and pictures and livestream VoDs and firsthand tweets and interviews and etc etc for you?

Do your own damn research and learn to think for yourself instead of relying on others to do it for you. The evidence is out out there, you're just too lazy to go look for it yourself because you're either afraid of what you'll find, or you're not going to believe it no matter how damning the evidence is. So, even if I did go out of my way to get you your "evidence", I already know you're going to tell me that it's all fake, and thus I will literally have wastedy time.

It's a lose-lose situation for me here, because either I get to do that, which, again, will result in you calling it all fake anyway, or I get to skip the bullshit and just tell you "no", to which you will say "yeah I thought so", and thus believe you have won this debate.

Why should I have to?

Because you are the one making claims, so the burden if proof falls on you to support them. Either produce evidence that can be scrutinised to see if it does indeed support your claim, or retract the claim.

Alternatively don’t get so pissy when those who value evidence don’t take you seriously for failing to provide any.

Do your own damn research and learn to think for yourself

Oh, the sweet irony.

Let me tell you what I know to be a fact. You are unable to produce proof of anyone “bleeding profusely” because the best evidence that exists for that claim is some grainy cameraphone footage of some anonymous fluid leaking out of someone’s clothing, which happens to be exactly how a theatrical blood pack would be hidden if it was faked.

You’re not even able to produce evidence that anyone or anything was shot at all, as joe_jaywalker has already demonstrated over and over again with his evidence threads.

So all you have left to support your perception of what happened is assumptions, assertions, appeals to authority, appeals to emotion, insults, ridicule and sarcasm.

Which is the same as saying: you have absolutely nothing of any evidentiary value whatsoever.

See? I knew this would happen. You're so fucking predictable.

I'm not fucking doing this. Should never have even replied to you to begin with. You people are all the same.

You people are all the same.

Yes, we all insist on evidence instead of nodding along with emotive assertions like compliant drones.

No. You are so delusional that you wouldn't fucking believe any evidence I fucking provided anyway, so I'm not going to waste my goddamn motherfucking time getting it for you just to hear you whine at me about how it's fake fucking bullshit. I have so many fucking better things to do, like playing League.

Ok

Nonsensical timeline and lack of/missing/destroyed evidence is CLASSIC CIA conspiracy stuff, see also assassinations of JFK, Bobby Kennedy, MLK. I'm surprised there hasn't yet been evidence to suggest there was a second Stephen Paddock in the vicinity on the night

I feel like in other countries when something like this happens nearly all the information is out there within days, but for this there's STILL a lot of questions. Like, why do I know the exact contents of the Durbin's DVD collection but hardly anything about Paddock? I think I like the Saudi prince theory the best but I'm not confident enough in it to bet any money or anything. It just bothers me how different this case is being handled compared to others that are similar.

I am convinced the timing of hugh heffners death has something to do with the Weinstein and general cleaning house of hollywood.

Heffner and Trump had done business for decades. Weinstein was tight with the Clintons and would totally anti Trump. Id say they waited for heff to unshackle to coil before going public on Weinstein allegations so heff wouldnt be caught in the crossfire.

I tried to Google it, but when did weinstein first get accused? I know Hefner died in September but I can't for the life of me remember the date that the scandal first surfaced for Harvey. If it was right after hef died then I think the timing would be more than coincidence. I've never noticed that before, thank you.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41594672

First story about weinstein was the 5th October. Heffner died 8 days earlier.

Or him being really fucking old?

Thats what they want you to think

Yeah, if it wasn't for a vast conspiracy he would have made it to 92.

I posted a video here about child sex workers in Dominican Republic and someone brought up the idea that Jay Z "discovered" Rihanna in the DR as a sex worker.

Tell me more! Lol what deaths are you referring too? And what is your stance on the Weinstein scandal? I did some minor research awhile ago into the victims. Conveniently, they were all Democrats. Odd what that means, but I had a hunch they were all pretty much in the same political party, which is what motivated them to take Harvey down. I have serious doubts about what he’s been accused of. More specifically, his relationship with Uma Thurman, that whole situation was just sketchy. They were clearly friends. He seemed genuinely shocked when she also brought accusations against him. Which, took her months to finally come forth with, by the way. She kept teasing that she was going to reveal what Harvey did to her.....almost like promoting it like it was a movie or something. Some crazy shit. I think the majority of it was all fabricated to dismantle Weinstein. Somebody wanted his position and company. Their is a reason people accuse people of rape.... because it’s the only thing taken seriously that can do serious damage to ones reputation (think rape, child porn, sexual harassment etc) its a well organized smear campaign

the Las Vegas shooting

Festival called harvest. Sphynx. Black pyramid. Worlds brightest light.

Shane on YouTube covers these really well. I thought the Avril Lavigne one was really creepy. That she died and is being impersonated by her old body double

I'll have to check that out, thanks friend!

I don't think he's 100% correct, but I an a fan of Fomenko's new chronology.

http://chronologia.org/en/how_it_was/index.html

The earth really is flat and people calling it a psy op just havnt honestly looked into it yet. No cufvature mdanz no globe, its very simple really.

This destroys all the psy ops actually. ALL of them, it rips the entire veil off all at Once.

Once you get the world is a stage to the extent that they are literally faking outer space even existing THE REAL part starts and the important question finally becomes apparent... what else are they lying about? Turns out all of it, from Jesus existing to evolution being science.

It's a battle for eternal souls.

But… there is curvature…

Where is it? Can you link to someone measuring it please? Something like a pear earth version of a curvature test

Spend just a little bit of time looking into what you were told and the lie falls apart in seconds is how it actually works. There are 100x80 mile perfectly flat salt flats we can see from one end to the other of even...

Another extreme example is the Barre des Ecrins mountains where the bottoms of the mountains are visible accross water and can be seen 4983 miles away. There should be 9.4 miles of curvature drop But we see 0.0 inches of curve like always.

How it works is people were told stupid wrong bullshit and just believed it because the idea that every thing they have even been told being a lie is too much for most people to handle

That's not how a gyroscope works in gravity. I have a babies, none spill bowl which is gyroscopic. No matter how my daughter holds the bowl, the bowl stays level and the contents remain in the bowl. By the logic in this video, this bowl would be useless in the southern hemisphere.

Gravity is fake too, and right now I’m talking about viewing distances proving no curve mostly and also showing just one of countless examples of curvature tests.

Where is the pear earth equivalent of this that proves curvature? Would a laser test be better for you? Or a bubble level test? Or submarine diving depths never changing either? Would you links me to link a compilation I’ve been collecting of the government outright admitting the earth is flat or else their math only works assuming the earth is flat in official .gov docs.

Flat and motionless is proven over and over and over and all the pear earth cult can do is try to nitpick fine details out that they can’t make sense of within the web of lies they have been fed from birth.

There are SO many false assumptions in what you just said I’d have to essentially rebuild your entire mind from scratch to even begin correcting incorrect things you said.

Main thing though, is flat is proven and curved water at rest is literally impossible.

Well. It's true, I have learned what I know about the universe from school and mainstream science. When I look at the moon, I can see that it is a sphere by the way the sun lights up different portions of it, from new moon, crescent moon through to a full moon. You can literally see that the moon is a sphere. This is pretty solid visual evidence that bodies in space are spherical. It makes perfect sense that masses in space are spherical if you understand the principal of gravity.

I feel like you must have learned what you believe from conspiracy videos which is pretty shaky ground to educate yourself on. I'm not even certain why you think mainstream would want to misinterpret the universe and pretend the earth was a sphere of it wasn't.

If the government wanted you to believe the earth was flat, would you think it was a sphere? What's the point in misleading you?

What would be the point?

The moon is a translucent disk and doesn’t appear to be a material object. We can see clouds behind it and stars through it. Even if the moon were a sphere, which it clearly isn’t, that wouldn’t prove the earth is a sphere for the same reason looking up at your kitchen lights doesn’t peove your house is a lightbulb. You can literally see the moon isn’t a sphere, and full selenelion luner eclipses prove the luner eclipse isn’t the shadow of a ball earth on the moon.

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. We don’t know every detail for what every person is thinking or every detail of how the entire universe actually works but we can prove the earth is flat and motionless and also that outer space is fake.

Flat earth certainly isn’t a psy op, I’d say it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt hundreds of ways over but at LEAST the shape of the earth is a real debate so isn’t going away.

Gravity is just the lie acting like glue holding the other lies together. Gravity has never even been proven, everything here on earth can be explained perfectly well using the principles of buoyancy and density.

Your whole argument is essentially “I know I’m not being lied to because the lie would make sense if it were true”

Mandela effect and its link to the large hadron collider. Could we be living in a slightly altered universe 🤔

Explain?

berenstEin beats became berenstAin bears despite many people remembering it to be the former, I think the poster you replied to is implying the Hadron collider may have slightly altered our timeline leading to small discrepensies like that

It was always Betenstain! I remember when I was 6 thinking it was odd that the word “stain” was in a name. That was close to forty years ago.

You’re not really grasping the concept here.

Or you aren’t.

Nope, it was stein. I remeber asking my mother why we pronunced it "berenstain" if it was spelled "berenstein"

sorry, I phrased that pretty poorly. i didn't mean to say it changed from E to A i meant many people remember it being E

And they’re remembering it wrong. It was always Berenstain in the universe and timeline that I’m from.

agreed I just find it interesting that so many people misremembere the same things

I know people like to think of themselves as special and unique. But really we are all more alike than unlike. Most everyone processes and stores information the same way. It’s not surprising that there are mistakes in the collective memory.

cool story!!!...okay,now can you explain why there is a fairly sizable group of people that like to think of themselves as special and unique all of a sudden in a rush after the year 2015 or so on the exact same details of the exact same subject matter???how is it that,speaking for myself and tonnes and tonnes of others that have shared anecdotes and comments,we have lived on this planet for 3 or 4 or more decades and have made plenty and plenty of mistakes and had our memories proven incorrect many times over and moved on straight away and accepted it EVERY....SINGLE....TIME.......and then boom!!in an instant at an exact point we all became extreme narcissists of the most arrogant,self-involved kind and decided our minds are more powerful and reliable than the very fabric of reality........really??does that not seem ever so slightly off to you??

or does it just make you feel a whole lot more comfortable and settled to believe that we are all lying and have always been this way??going through life denying every single thing that contradicted our "almighty" memories....i guess it helps on your end cos then you dont actually have to think..so theres alot of time saved right there.

I once had the pleasure to have a skeptic experience a flip flop (fruit loops - which is it now?).
Some people won't believe until they see. And then still doubt themselves, bc it makes more logical sense that they just had it wrong. They just can't be reached until they have their "holy shit" moment.

yea,i seen a few get converted by the FOTL cornucopia and also by a flip flop and a few really got shook recently by danielle steeles last name

Most everyone stores memory the same way ? No they don’t. If you knew anything about long term and short term memory you’d realise they were totally different

I keep this link handy for times like this. Even the grammar nazi spells it Benenstein.

COASTERBUZZ.

Wtf! I just read that whole we site and pretty much every single one of this is a legit shift. WTF. I clearly remember a lot of those things. Especially the fucking Volvo logo. I also remember when I noticed that 3PO's leg had changed. It was NOT silver when I was a little kid. I thought they added that in with the special editions in the 90s. Tell me that's true. Wtf?!

That’s the conspiracy my friend 😏

I clearly remember a lot of those things.

Yes but that’s not how memory works, unfortunately.

It was NOT silver when I was a little kid.

Memory isn’t always that reliable.

You have no idea how memory works

A lot of the original Star Wars toys failed at this, it may have been over looked due to cost? But if you google image search 3PO toys a lot of them are have both legs gold.

lmao it's pretty trippy but I think it's just people misremembering things (doesn't account for so many people misremembering the same things however) , very interesting nonetheless though!

I'm going to watch my original edition VHS tonight to confirm this......

I was thinking the same thing....

Nope..... it's really there. Huh.

I will say it's semi-hidden behind things in a lot of shots, almost as if on purpose. But it's definitely there.....

It's on my old vhs tape too.

I had a friend online that didn't remember the gun try to convince me it was in a deleted scene until I told them it was on my tape.

You’ve been jumped on by the skeptics. Your memory is correct. These things have changed. There is a large body of people ensuring this doesn’t get out. No one can explain it and it’s not man made. There are many changes. The a team van is no longer red and black. Ribbon seals now exist, Mount Rushmore, Lincoln has a shirt, American gothic painting both people don’t look straight out anymore. It’s quite a thing. And trust your memory it’s not that bad

American Gothic also used to be an old couple didn't it? Now it's a man and daughter.

That bit I’m not certain of. I recall a debate about it but if I’m honest I can’t recall which way round it was.

no, 3P0 had the silver leg the entire time. just a little example that Lucas had a really deep story.

Basically it’s the widespread cognitive faltering of pop culture icons and masses of people remembering the exact same mistakes when it comes to spelling/facts of these icons. Example: the popular children’s series “The Berenstain Bears” is incorrectly remembered as “The BerenstEIn Bears” and everyone swears by it as the incorrect spelling. See some examples here:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mandelaeffect.net/mandela-effect-examples/amp/

Now what’s interesting about it is that this effect was not discovered until after the initial start up of the large hadron collider. Theory here being that the collision of subatomic particles may have actually launched us into an alternate universe, whereby masses of people remember certain facts as “incorrect”. Here’s an article (I know, I know it’s a Vice article) that explains it more:

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/5gqby8/mandela-effect-pop-culture-memories

Satanic scientists? Did they really have to add Satanic? Really? I believe in this conspiracy theory but that title is dumb as fuck.

Vice is dumb af.. Coming from a millennial liberal that is supposed to be the target audience of vice.. I eye roll into another dimension whenever my roomates put this trash on. They used to be ok but it's just Disney/leftist brainwashing these days.

That’s why I had my small disclaimer in there hahaha

Now what’s interesting about it is that this effect was not discovered until after the initial start up of the large hadron collider.

Sure it was. It just wasn’t called “the Mandela effect “.

Apologies, you are correct. From my short research online, I believe 2010 was the year that “Mandela effect” was starting to be searched on the web. This corresponds with the “rebooting” of the LHC and when it’s highest power (to that date) was recorded. Again, in no way scientific or objective, but interesting enough to provoke thought.

??? If you go to Something Awful GBS archives they were talking about the Berenstain Bears phenomenon as far back as 2002, at least once a month it seemed.

I can’t access the site at work, but I take your word for it. I’ll have to do some more research on the subject before I offer any sort of rebuttal.

I absolutely love the idea of the Hadron Collider doing it though... but the Berenstain Bears thing is such an in-joke to me and my wife that she wrote it into her wedding vows, well before the LHC ever came on line.

Now THAT would be a conspiracy right there.

berentain bears effect is because of the common -stein ending. You glance at the title and your brain fills it up with how you want it to be spelled.

nope,try again.....many,many,many people remember discussing it as children with parent or teachers and questioned if the name was pronounced "stine" or "steen" and recall this vividly..why would that be when looking at the suffix "stain"??so we got an entire generation of kids AND adults completely incapable of identifying the letter "a" when specifically looking at it.

also does it not strike you as odd that an entire generation of small children were exposed to the word berenstain (ie.bear-and-stain) and never joked on it or noticed it at all??youd think at least a few little kids somewhere would have a field day with that but thats just by the by.

The Berenstain bears thing is because both names were used on a bunch of different products. There is even a VHS with both spellings on the same item.

It was noticed before the berenstain bears. And by the way a lot of people will remember the Bernstein bears. Also many will recall fabreeze. Or febreeze. Many will recall the scarecrow in wizard of oz not having a gun

And No it’s nothing to do with the collider

Wait. Gun what?
I just watched this with my kids less than a month ago... and although I confirmed we had an edit sans "suicide guy", there wasn't a gun toting scarecrow.

Nope. It was a few scenes but seems odd. Also the witch never said fly my pretties fly. Dorathy didn’t say I have a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore. And no one said click your heels three times together.

Big one in the movies in moonraker. Dolly who saves jaws and fall in love together. She never has braces now

Also the witch never said fly my pretties fly. Dorathy didn’t say I have a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore. And no one said click your heels three times together.

Seriously. Last month I watched it last month with my 9yo, And I quoted the "Kansas..." line as well as the "fly my pretties..."

Its a ripped copy on a media server, but maybe I should record it or something. This isn't something that has a flip-flop at all is it?

You saw a version with fly my pretties fly ? That would be hilarious for the skeptics just trying to debunk it lol.

Giving you an upvote.

The Mandela effect is interesting. We were talking about it the other day at work.

Mandela effect itself is a conspiracy used to rewrite history

It's gaslighting basically.

In the past few weeks I have seen more people use the word gaslighting, why is that?

Baader-Meinhoff affect.

Me too, maybe it is a good conspiracy theory? I've noticed it too but never gave it much thought until you mentioned it.

It's because you are being gaslighted by your dictating president. He used words to confuse and distract, holding you in limbo. It's an inbuilt trait of certain people to dominate and cause chaos for no other reason then boredom. Others might try to find a reasonable cause for this behavior. Don't waste your time - just know that it's like being fed poison to stay around these personalities.

Its real and not gas lighting. Reality is changing. Go to retconned. Its a sub

Yea says the random guy not explaining himself. Ok i believe him. Sarcasm

Maybe you should learn what the word means. It doesn't need further explanation.

Aliens (opens hands)

It’s defintely not. Do some research before making uninformed comments like this. It’s one of the furthest things from gaslighting there is. Reality is being edited with thousands of examples and mountains of evidence to support it.

"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

-George Orwell, 1984

Maybe 1984 was a documenting of events and not the telling of a fiction

Bless you for reading

Well, you were. Your co-workers won't remember.

You mean the Mengele effect.

Damn Doctor They fucking up everything.

One of my favorite episodes!

The angel of death?

I swear I remembered him as a demon of death. Stupid Magellan effect.

I thought he was the Angle of Deaf. Stupid Metallica effect.

I thought he was the angel of debt. Stupid Maatercard effect.

The Mandela effect doesn't exist. It's just a psychological phenomenon involving mistaken memories

Funny how Nelson Mandela, what the effect is named after, being mistaken as having died earlier than he really did, never happened in South Africa.

I realize that there is a psychological effect happening here, and it is most likely just cognitive dissonance, but it’s odd that the effect was never mentioned or talked about until after the hadron collider was active at CERN. It’s also odd that MAJORITY (>50%) of people remember the same mistakes when it comes to the facts of said pop culture icon. I know this could be from social bias and cognitive availability but it’s just interesting to think about.

Right, it was first reported in 2010, with the LHC starting in February 2008 which is almost a 3 year gap. Furthermore, there's more than 30,000 particle accelerators around the world, why would a single accelerator trigger this if none of the others operating simultaneously did?

And going back to my point that NOBODY in South Africa thought that Nelson Mandela died in prison because you know, he became president of South Africa after his release. This is where the phenomenon was first depicted and I think ignorance on the part of many people is more likely than parallel universes moving through one another.

Could have been that the LHC is the largest collider in the world with enough speed and power to collider heavier ions - (maybe some sort of threshold needed to be reached?). This is in no way factual or scientific in any nature, just a conspiracy theory that I enjoy and other people seem to as well.

Right, it was first reported in 2010, with the LHC starting in February 2008 which is almost a 3 year gap.

Do you think that the creation of the LHC is what people are claiming caused the effect? its not the collider itself that would be responsible but something it triggered.

Furthermore, there's more than 30,000 particle accelerators around the world, why would a single accelerator trigger this if none of the others operating simultaneously did?

Why bother making the LHC if theres so many colliders already? Its because LHC can do more than the others.

And going back to my point that NOBODY in South Africa thought that Nelson Mandela died in prison because you know, he became president of South Africa after his release. This is where the phenomenon was first depicted and I think ignorance on the part of many people is more likely than parallel universes moving through one another.

You dont understand the effect. It doesn't matter if South Africans did not experience the effect. Its only named after Nelson Mandela because it was the first documented instance that gained steam. The effect is way bigger than just one guy.

Also, the effect IS real. This is indisputable. The cause is up for debate and yes it could be ignorance, but it could be something else as well.

The movie with Sinbad is probably the best example. Thousands if not millions of people all remember a movie that never existed.... they aren't remembering a spelling wrong...they are remembering an entire movie and NO shaqs kazaam has nothing to do with it

A couple more big ME's are Rodins 'Thinker' statue.

Dolly's braces from Moonraker (1979) is another big one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/8ru5ev/i_100_saw_braces_on_dolly

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my personal favorite is the fruit of the loom logo never having a cornicopia

Yes, many people remember it that way.

I first heard of people thinking Mandela died in prison even though he didn't way back in 2001.

How do you know it’s the majority of people? Of what people? Also, the name “Mandela effect” is now, but the phenomenon (false memories) isn’t.

Literally just through internet polls of people responding to questions on websites documenting some of the effects. In no way a statistically significant measure, but enough to feed my curiosity.

go and see for yourself,get out and about and ask folks...you will likely fall over in shock at the number that consistently get it wrong in exactly the same way over and over and over again on the same subject matter...it really is quite an astonishing collection of "misconceptions" to the point where almost no human being alive was capable of perceiving many of them accurately.

Imo It has nothing to do with CERN. People have noticed things changing way before CERN was created.

you should get out and about and do your own impromptu polling on the more "significant" M.E like ed mcmahon never giving checks for PCH,fruit of the loom never having a cornucopia,lindbergh baby found and killer convicted,mona lisa smiling like she on top of a dildo,sinbad the comedian never being in a genie movie and the "thinker" statue with a mushed up hand on his chin instead of a fist(on forehead)..and you will find its MUCH,MUCH,MUCH higher than 50%,closer to 90+ i would guess from my own experience and anecdotes from others...and i just ask some of the more obscure ones like desi arnez and sally fields names and interview with A vampire(one i am 100 fugging % certain on and will swear by till the day i die)..anyhow its practically impossible to find someone getting it "correct". so,alot of you guys here probably have a proclivity to lean towards being open minded to conspiracy theories and y'all obviously know about M.E but i dont recognise any names in this thread as familiar in terms of commenting in mandela effect and retconned forums..i know you cant speak for others but is it just not something that takes your fancy enough to give it much consideration??

I saw it in the 90s when Australia moved 700 miles north. I just put it down to satellites. And any evidence of this ? Yes. Papua New Guinea was mapped and circumnavigated 150 years before Australia was discovered. You’d think they’d bump into a continent less than 100 miles away.

I like reading about the Mandela effect because it's a puzzle to figure out why so many people are confused about it. My theory on Mandela is that people confuse him with Steve Biko, who did die in police custody. If you only half paid attention in an American social studies class, you'd learn about both of them and it would be easy to mix them up later on.

That’s just one effect. There are thousands

Ever heard of ribbon seals Rainbow trees Rainbow mountains Okapi

Before 2016 ?

Nope no one has. Except those that live near them. It’s a very strange phenomenon. And you probably don’t know where South America is

Okapi I've known about for years, as a kid I collected animal cards and remember that distinctly.
South America does look way further east, and I never knew Australia was so close to Indonesia. That's kind of trippy.

You’re the first I’ve known to have heard of the okapi. Maybe it is a rare animal few have heard of., I know many who haven’t heard of narwhals which I find interesting since they are quite well known.

Australia blew me away a number of years ago when I was sure it was way out in the middle of no where and it didn’t have that spike peninsula thing at the top.

That's what everyone thinks until it happens to them.

I don't understand all the rabid hate for ME. It isn't really something Infocus on conspiracy wise, but it is the most harmless subject we discuss in places like this haha.

People just think it's ridiculous, that's all it is. I understand their skepticism cuz I was just like them until it happened to me. I was like "you're just remembering it wrong; are you wrong? Or is the entire rest of the universe wrong? What's more likely?" lol. I remembering saying that to someone in /r/mandelaeffect and they were like "you'll see when it happens to you" and I was like "sure thing bud" - they were right!

What was the one that changed your mind?

What happened to me wasn't really a "mandela effect" by that sub's standards, they only consider it a mandela effect if it affects a group of people, but what happened to me only affected me and in that sub, they redirect those kind of experiences to /r/glitchinthematrix.

Basically, a friend of mine was telling me about this video of Jimmy Page doing a show all fucked up on drugs, playing the guitar all messed up. A few days later I looked it up and watched the video. Then I told him I saw the video and it's funny but sad, and he had no idea what video I was talking about. I tried reminding him of the conversation but he didn't recall that part of it, and he never actually saw that video. Despite all of this, I'm certain he told me about it and I remember it vividly. That's what changed my mind and I remembered the guy on the ME sub saying I'd see when to happened to me.

I have a personal ME as well that nobody I know of has experienced yet. It's bizarre how that can happen.

Yeah it is very odd, mind telling me about it?

Not at all!

Every morning I would walk my dog on the exact same loop, starting from my driveway. We would go up the street, turn right, walk down that street until we could cut through a parking lot to stay away from the major street that is about a half block further. One morning as I'm walking him, that parking lot I've used dozens of time was directly along the main street. It sounds so minor but I know for a fact this lot was far enough from the street to make it worth my while to cut through it. Now every morning as I cut through that lot I am sure to note exactly how close it is to that major street in case it flip flops on me.

Wow that is very interesting. When was the last time you took that path before it switched on you? Did it happen over one day?

I think it was over a weekend. I probably looked crazy that first day... I stopped in my tracks and was looking at the area on Google Earth because of how bizarre it felt. I mean, it went from half a block of separation to none. Super weird and I feel a bit crazy even thinking about it.

Yeah it's a bit of a mindfuck when it happens :/

Take photo or measure in case it changes

I really should. I'll get photos tomorrow morning. Cue me shitting my pants when it's back to normal lol

Funny how that is irrelevant

You must be pretty unaware. First off the mandela example is the worst of all the effects out there and we’re stuck with that garbage name thanks to Fiona Broome. I’m not gna continue to explain why you’re wrong because it’s not worth my time. But do some actual research before you make dumbass comments like this. NPC idiot.

I could be convinced of this. My favorite theory is that the world actually ended in 2012. The idea is that “they” knew something bad was approaching, like Planet X or the poles flipping or something so they used LHC to shift us into a similar dimension. That’s why we are noticing all these small differences.

Never heard of this one, but ain’t that trippy.

People always like to ignore the good the Illuminati do :P

except the mandela effect has been around since before 2012

Why would they wait til the last minute to move?

Maybe in the timeline you're from it has.

I like the idea that the reason we have a reality star president where Dennis Rodman is helping to negotiate peace on the Korean peninsula while hawking weed based crypto is because the LHC annihilated every other possible sane timeline and now we're stuck in this one. Every other timeline ends in annihilation.

To add to that conspiracy, there's this photo of a CERN physicist holding up two signs. One reading Bond #1, the other reading Mandela. ODD TV on YouTube breaks it down pretty well in this Mandela Effect video.

That’s just a red herring. It was a poor attempt at making it look man made.

Exactly, or the bearded scientist holding the signs was trolling (and quite effectively too). Just the type of humor you can expect to find at cern. Check out the spoof Indian goddess ceremony at the giant multi armed statue.

shit was fucked up before the LHC turned on.

jesus christ is it more fucked up now.

I used to be deep into the mandela effect until i just forgot about it are there any new findings?

the pose of the thinking man statue and that there are two mona Lisas are the hot topics right now

The thinking man one is old. I remember that one from when i was deep in the mandela effect. There was something about to mona lisa but i think that was her facial expression. Ill check it out

Lincoln Memorial

https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/8t0x5t/lincoln_memorial_residue_the_right_hand_is_open

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remember kurt cobain in an iconic picture with big sunglasses and flouro fink fluffy jacket??if so,well it never existed...trashy romance novellist danielle steele is now steel,shaggy from scooby doo never had an adams apple,engines on passenger planes are hanging way off the front of the wings now instead of mounted on the middle.

i assume by findings you meant examples ...but if you meant discoveries as to the cause then na,nothing,nada,zip,zilch.

okay cia

Ah yes, the group of people who got pissed that they weren't observant enough to notice C3PO had a red leg, or how to spell the last name of a family of bears when questioned. Clearly the universe's fault and not their brain. Their brains are clearly perfect.

C3PO had a silver leg... the red arm comes from TFA

Bit like James earl jones recalling his line. Luke I am your father. Totally incorrectly and like many people remember. No ones memory is perfect but it’s good enough to know when things change

How exactly does the LHC cause the Mandela effect?

It may actually be d-wave or d-wave + cern. https://youtu.be/WfTnQf_yF-A?t=5m53s

Mandela Effect is interesting, but the things people see as proof in /r/retconned makes me think we're just terrible at remembering things -- even colectively.

I think the biggest one for me is all of the women through history telling me I have a small dick. They are obviously plants by the feminist movement to make me feel small and weak. All because I showed up at a Natl Org of Women meeting and told them they shouldn't even have the right to vote.

This is the most believable one here

metoo

The true purpose of aglets....is sinister

Hah! Don't know why this is controversial tho.

The whole Walmart/Tunnels idea.
This makes perfect sense to me. Walmart has logistics technology and processes are that the envy of the world. They have locations literally everywhere in the US. Massive supply chain. I mean, think of how much food, water, clothing, medicine and medical supplies, optometry centers. They cover 100% of what people would need in case of a major event. With a few clicks, they can re-route tens of thousands of truck loaded with supplies.
Not only does it make sense to me, if I was the guy tasked with it, I would do it.

I like this. What's the conspiracy though? That Walmart is secretly a division of the government or something?

Walmart is used as a place for an underground network of logistics and supply tunnels that span across the entire US.

I live in a city on a swamp with 4 lakes. We have 3 walmarts. There is absolutely no way they have underground tunnels to any of those locations. The cost of that engineering feat would eat into the profits of the Walton family, and there's no fucking way on this blue marble that they would ever spend that kind of money.

When it comes to conspiracy theories you have to play two truths and a lie. Oftentimes the truth is exaggerated or sensationalized for the purpose of disinformation or to draw more attention. Maybe there aren't secret tunnels connecting every Walmart in the country. But there could be at least a few. Or maybe it's the broader fact that the government has organized to use Walmart for distribution centers in the vent of an emergency. You just have to think about stuff like that. I personally believe a happy medium. I don't buy into truths and ideas 100%.

I might be convinced of the possibility that somehow they got secret permits and subterranian land rights to connect their distribution centers. But as a midwesterner, I've spent a lot of time in less than populated areas. Any kind of project like that would be impossible to keep quiet. Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. The reason it would be impossible is because of the noise. To bore like that, it's going to make noise.

Now, I did say less than populated, but that doesn't mean devoid of humans. Those living there would hear it loud and clear. Maybe in a city the daily noise could cover it up, but not in the back country, and the wildlife would go insane.

In addition to that, where I live is just one example. Here's a map of the aquifers of the US you'd have to navigate around, assuming you'd want to bore deep enough to avoid detection by way of noise. Then there's the unpredictability of the types of rock, the removal of soil (all those dump trucks!).

I mean, I wish it were true, because think about how many jobs that would really create! Although they'd all be 32 hours per week at minimum wage with no benefits.

There is absolutely no way they have underground tunnels to any of those locations. The cost of that engineering feat would eat into the profits of the Walton family, and there's no fucking way on this blue marble that they would ever spend that kind of money.

The "Underground Railroad" had stops that were just above ground in someone's home for the night. Maybe these are just truck hubs.

Cheryl: “The only thing i can think of is all the secret tunnels… Yeah they go everywhere. My… I wanna say my great great great uncle? He built them trying to tap into the underground railroad”

Lana: “Wait did he think it was literally-”

Cheryl: “A subterranean railroad yeah sooo…”

Pam “So why’d he build a bunch of tunnels?”

Cheryl: “To capture runaway slaves and sell them back to their rightful owners... And I wanna say his plan was to dress like a ghost?”

Also curious, never heard of this one

Sorry, should have been more clear.
There is a theory out there that the unexplained bangs and the high pitched noises that are happening across the country are from underground tunnel digging. It was made semi famous because no one knows the origin of this map from like the 30's (check me on that).

The theory is that specific Walmart super centers were points of access for this tunnel system(s). Walmart has several ties, and several contracts to government agencies.

Given the era of space based monitoring, now, the only true way to hide military movements, locations and government happenings is by going underground. Underground may have been fairly difficult in the past, but patents for the technology go back to 1852. It's now commercially available and anything commercially available has probably been used by the governments/military (in several countries) for decades.
It goes on after that, but that's it in a nutshell.

Idk I think for this to happen you would need employees of Walmart with security clearances

What’s the conspiracy? Just that Wal-Mart is a one stop shopping center?

Sorry, should have been more clear. There is a theory out there that the unexplained bangs and the high pitched noises that are happening across the country are from underground tunnel digging. It was made semi famous because no one knows the origin of this map from like the 30's (check me on that).

The theory is that specific Walmart super centers were points of access for this tunnel system(s). Walmart has several ties, and several contracts to government agencies.

Given the era of space based monitoring, now, the only true way to hide military movements, locations and government happenings is by going underground. Underground may have been fairly difficult in the past, but patents for the technology go back to 1852. It's now commercially available and anything commercially available has probably been used by the governments/military (in several countries) for decades. It goes on after that, but that's it in a nutshell.

Sorry, should have been more clear. There is a theory out there that the unexplained bangs and the high pitched noises that are happening across the country are from underground tunnel digging. It was made semi famous because no one knows the origin of this map from like the 30's (check me on that).

The theory is that specific Walmart super centers were points of access for this tunnel system(s). Walmart has several ties, and several contracts to government agencies.

Given the era of space based monitoring, now, the only true way to hide military movements, locations and government happenings is by going underground. Underground may have been fairly difficult in the past, but patents for the technology go back to 1852. It's now commercially available and anything commercially available has probably been used by the governments/military (in several countries) for decades. It goes on after that, but that's it in a nutshell.

Something of interest on that map. The towns in Kansas are really interesting. Hutchinson has a massive salt mine in it. It's already naturally got tunnels in it. Kinsley is the weird one, like why the hell would Kinsley have tunnels in it? It's perfectly situated between San Francisco and New York City.

Can you link me to the map?

wow nice sauce

i could believe this

i think at any rate wal mart centers and their giant lots are the center of a lot of emergency/martial law plans

when you are getting your rations after [insert disaster here], it will be in a wal mart parking lot

theres actually a video going around of the tunnels .. truckers using them and shit

Then why do they still carry out their logistics above ground with 18 wheelers?

The tunnels are not for Walmart. They are for government/military use. So far.

That consciousness is everything. We live in a manifestation and that we truly can shape it to our liking. Those in power know this, utilize it, and have introduced protocols to prevent the majority of us from realizing our true nature. The introduction of GMOs, Flouride, and other chemicals are all an attempt to stifle us. The illegalization of drugs like DMT as well.

Ancient culture was also aware of this, and the pyramids where constructed to help assist in reaching proper frequencies. This is why they are held under such strict lock and key.

I belive this too. I think all the electronic smog makes it worse too.

The key with DMT is that your own body produces it, and it's hard to make that source illegal. DMT is not released in the body regularly, but meditative states and near-death experiences can cause your own body to release DMT.

I often wonder if DMT is the source of religious epiphany

You've been watching too much Joe Rogan

Meditation takes time and focus. Good thing we are overworked so we don't have enough time in the day to sit and meditate, and when we do we are handfed TV, video games and pharmaceuticals to ensure we don't stop, think and gain introspection and half-way decent attention spans. Finding time and putting in the effort to meditate can be very rewarding, but its difficult sometimes to do.

thank you for this post..even right now i am in bed replying to you when i could be trying to meditate instead. I really need to force myself to do it

I often wonder if DMT is the source of religious epiphany

I'd be more surprised if this isn't the case

What's your source for that claim tho? Can't say I remember reading about this in pharmacology.

There is a theory that the burning bush Moses saw was producing high amounts of DMT and that’s what gave him his encounter with God.

Acacia root bark, most likely. You definitely should never use lye and naphtha to extract it for yourself...

Oh of course!! I would absolutely NEVER go to the store and buy those two ingredients with the intention of going home to google how to go about extracting DMT from Acacia Root Bark! Never.

DMT is far from proven to be in the human body. It’s just a theory and has many flaws in it.

From what I understand, it is definitely present in trace amounts. Why, from where and for what purpose is not currently known ...

In addition, the human body definitely has receptors that DMT affects and it definitely produces metaphysical like effects when consumed.

P.S. This is /r/conspiracy and a thread specifically about conspiracies we believe are reality. I believe there is truth to this ...

DMT being released like that was a theory of strassman's which he has no evidence for. He even states that in his book. Somehow everyone glosses over the "Hey while the rest of this is science, this is my new age beliefs on the matter ..." disclaimer part of the book. My personal conspiracy for this is that most people never read the book and just had fragments of it passed to them like a game of telephone.

This is /r/conspiracy right ... ? What discussions in here are scientifically proven?

The pineal gland is scientifically proven to invoke altered states of consciousness (sleep) and has a long standing proposed correlation of being the metaphysical "third-eye" responsible for metatative states and achieving higher consciousness.

DMT happens to produce similar altered states of consciousnes and trace amounts are found naturally occurring in the human body.

Strassman connected these in his theory. No, it is not proven, but it is not disproven either. That theory is intreagingly plausible ...

Strassman wrote a book that was part science and part philosophical conjecture. The problem is that many people read the entire book as if it was complete science. He might be correct in his conjecture, but even he says it is just that. The DMT at death and in the body was part of that philosophical conjecture part. Plausible yes, possibly true, but not proven like the other parts of his book.

I've done plenty of DMT, I think he could be right, I just want to make sure we understand what we're talking about.

There is a bean (velvet bean or l-dopa bean) that is known for its high concentration of levodopa (l-dopa) at about 5% by weight. It is used as a medicinal for a number of reasons.

Interestingly, it also contains trace levels of serotonin, DMT, bufotine, 5-MEO and nicotine. Too low to be used as a psychedelic.

When consumed, dreams seem to become more vivid and epiphanic. Not sure why, but it has changed my opinion on what effect trace quantities of these may have on the sleep/dream cycle, and lends some credence to Strassman's theory.

Sure, but the trace quanitities is his guess, he has no reason to think it. What I'm saying is he wrote a book that's 50% actual science and 50% his new age speculations. Yet it's passed around like it 100% science. This has done more harm to the understanding of psychedelics than anything I can think of. So much misinformation because of that book.

Imagine if you had a physics textbook, and the second half of the textbook was the professor explaining how he thinks what he's learned about physics proves about metaphysics and the existence of god. Yet people kept acting like both parts of the book were equally scientific. Even when the author says they're not. That's what we have with strassman.

I thought trace amount of DMT found in urine is scientifically established? No one really knows why, for what purpose or where it is produced. Knowing this, Strassman suggested the pineal gland ... right?

I do not think it's scientifically established, but feel free to prove me wrong. Most of the misinfo goes straight back to Strassman.

I agree with this. However, I think there are also psyops and gatekeepers who take it too far in order to confuse and disempower those on the right path. For example, Timothy Leary, Terence McKenna, Esalen, etc. have CIA ties. Some folks I know who are deeply into consciousness and non-duality have pretty much disengaged from society.

Balance is always needed. But for some people, disengaging for society could be for the best. For most doing this work, it can become an escape. It should be noted though that during the process of spiritual awakening, a lot of time and space needs to be set out for being alone and in silence (as best possible, depending on the person), thus some people disengage for a while, then return when ready.

In regard to gatekeepers - the truth is always found in your own experience, within and without, here now. Every teacher, book, lecture....is just a pointer.

"the Buddha should return, not in some moral obligation to help others but as he sees no difference between the world of higher states and life on earth"

GMOs have been in existence ever since humans started cultivating.

not all are created equal

not everything is this OR that, good OR bad, etc.

THIS. GMOs are just selectively bred plants, there's nothing weird or unnatural about them.

That's what they used to be, now we have tomatoes that we have genetically modified to add taste back via unnatural means. There are unnatural modifications done as well. Its not just about using seeds from the best crops anymore

Personally I don't have a problem with it, as long as it doesn't negatively affect my health. The real issue I have with gmos is that corporations like Monsanto (now bayer) can patent the gmos and make it illegal for anyone else to grow them without their consent.

You should also have a problem with suicide genes. Many of these GMO plants won't reproduce seed; this is disrupting natural cycles and making farmers dependent on Monsanto, etc. rather than being more self-sufficient.

Yeah I remember seeing a documentary about that a couple years ago. Farmers can't get seed from the plants so they need to buy seed every year (from Monsanto etc..., who have monopolized the market) at a ridiculous rate that really cuts into their bottom line.

Anywhere i can read more about this? This really resonated with me

look into the law of attraction and the holographic theories of the universe

Thanks man

There is evidence of this via epigenetic degeration

Is there? A source would be wonderful here. The thing is I do believe this is true through my own knowledge and experience, but any scientific evidence would be greatly appreciated, especially for showing to people that are more scientifically minded.

Green eyed women seem to be more over weight than blue eyed women.

Green eyes seem to be epigenetic degeration of blue eyes. There isn't much research in the field but i would assume having unnatural chemicals and heavy metals in your body may cause some epigenetic degeration. That might be why some people are healthy and dont have any mood disorders, and some people have several problems with their health.

Autism is probably not caused by themself getting injected, but the grandparents/parents.

Watch a video of the basics of epigenics and "fruitarian blue eyes"

I guess this mainly proves the idea of degeneration via food poisoning...etc. but not the main premise, that all is consciousness - if I understand correctly?

Either way, still this is very interesting, thanks will check it out :)

EXpand please . Do u believe our thoughts manifest into our lives ?

I do. I believe that consciousness manifests everything including material things like money or success

I love the way you think I wish u was my friend irl

well at least we are friends here

Some shit about 5 races in the planet that are controlling humans. Got me into it so much that I started seeing shit in the middle of the night.

I'd love to read more on this. Is it like inner-earth /r/HomoGiganticus type stuff? Or like extraterrestrials?

More like they've always been here but have a lower population than us, I'll try to find the thread if I can.

Secret I underground bases in mountains, under the ocean or just in plain site

You ever read about Switzerlands "Emergency Response" type of system?

They basically have tons of armor and ordinance hidden away, behind walled off mountain passes and little underground garages and hidden areas.

Their countryside looks totally benign but suddenly you could be facing down some huge resistance.

Just saying, these are not new ideas, and the Swiss being open about it doesn't mean our government ever would be.

I ll check it out

My boss who helped build the highway in the great smokey mountains(i think this is the one he worked on) says that there's definitely a millitary base inside. They have way too many security guards and you can be watched from any point with the cameras they have.

I ll check it out!

Live near the smokies, I'll second this. Never seen it myself, but long heard tell of a battle star galactica style takeoff and landing portal in the side of a mountain.

We also had an nsa listening station, and at least two chemical warfare manufacturing plants.

Smokies?

Smoky mountains, wnc.

did you see the strava heat map of the west african line into the ocean?

Webb Hubble is Chelsea's dad. Not THAT crazy or important at the end of the day. But damn convincing and interesting...

Chelsea Clinton, for those who didn't know

Competition convinced of this one.

She looks so much more like Hubble than WJC. It's uncanny. Hubble's daughter too.

In the same vein, Fidel Castro being Justin Trudeaus real father.

I buy that one too

Who?

Long time Clinton friend and associate. He was Bill Clinton's "Counsel to the Transition Board", basically the lawyer who vetted potential cabinet members, and then he was appointed to Associate Attorney General. He resigned during the Whitewater scandal and pleaded guilty to one count of wire fraud and one count of tax fraud.

Did he get jail time?

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-29/news/mn-18541_1_justice-department-official

21 months. Don't know if he actually served it.

No doubt in my mind http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Webster-Hubbell-Chelsea-Clinton.jpg

I posted this when I saw this theory last time, I think its actually the opposite in that Hubbles daughter is Bills kid not Hubble is Chelseas father.

I base this on the fact that I can see Bill in Chelsea and that Hubbles daughter does look identical to Chelsea, and we all know how much Bill likes to stick his dick into anything he can.

Theres something there for sure, because they are indeed identical and for them to be long time relations with the Clintons is not a coincidence

On a Canadian note, Fidel Castro is Justine Trudeau's father.

Paul McCartney being dead

That QAnon is not a LARP

It’s not. Scary but true. Had a hyperventilating episode when it truly hit me after reading some shit and trying to debunk it for 6 months. I don’t 100% believe in everything but majority of it yes.

Flat Earth

bullshit, if Earth was flat you wouldn't record 4 times sound going around it from Volcano and after 3 times from Tsar bomb.

The shock waves reflected off the firmament dome?

C’mon maaaan lol

Isn’t the whole study of time & weather based on the fact that the earth is round?

This sub was hijacked by Reddit admins and TMOR.

What IS the shift you think you've seen?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8r766b/are_the_reddit_admins_helping_rtopmindsofreddit?sort=confidence

The admin witchhunt, doxxing and reddit employee scandals 5-6 years ago is when I noticed a massive change.

I remember reddit being a lot funnier i dont know what changed

180 on what

Conspiracy. Wikileaks, PizzaGate, Pedophilia, Political shift.

ahhh, so you want this to be a pro-Trump subreddit like it was during the election?

"Conspiracy. Wikileaks, PizzaGate, Pedophilia, Political shift. Pre-election thid sub was heavily anti DNC Clinton. Pro wikileaks. Pro PizzaGate discussion."

Ctrl + F "Trump"

Results: 0

Don't pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. Intentionally acting naive is not a good look.

i hate that being anti clinton, anti pedophile, or pro wikileaks "must" mean you are pro trump (hint: it doesnt)

You realize that you can read somebody's account history? The guy is pissed off that the subreddit isn't pro-Trump enough.

He sent me a PM calling me a faggot and a leftist mod for some inexplicable reason.

This sounds like an attempt to blame others for changing their minds amongst new information, in order to protect you from thinking critically about your own pre conceived ideas

Free /u/rulebyfear

I believe that human beings are essentially a proxy war for competing alien races, one of which wants us to take DMT and evolve, the other of which wants us mostly if not completely destroyed. The latter is often called the "Archons." I'm completely convinced that this is the world we're living in, and it was enumerated in the teachings of the ancient Gnostics. Also check out "The Cosmic War" by Joseph Farrell.

I find it hilarious that you believe that but called me ridiculous for thinking Bill Hicks is Alex Jones

All inclusive resorts are fronts for laundering drug money. There's no way they make money with all the booze flowing.

That would be a lot more effort than just watering or switching out drinks and buying bottles by the crate. Now the edm festival scene I can buy being used for partial money laundering

why the edm festival scene?

EDM festivals are run to sell drugs. You can't sell acid and ecstasy on the street like coke and heroin, you need venues. The drug dealers by necessity have to be involved in throwing the parties, but and small.

It's also just a very connection-oriented scene, like people know each other and care about "vibes" etc, I've never known someone in the EDM scene that didn't use or sell those or both as the opportunities arose.