It's never too late to get an education....

Maybe somebody else can correct me if I’m wrong, I’m just thinking out loud here and I might be remembering incorrectly.

But- Lucifer was one of the most (high/important?) angels. So it would make sense that having “Lucifer arise in you” would be a good thing... I follow you to that point. But if I’m not mistaken, Lucifer betrayed God and was therefore cast into hell to rule there. So it’s possible the timeline of the writings is correct but the ending is being left out.

Thoughts?

You should've started with that. We don't worship "Lucifer" we worship evil.

While many say Lucifer is Latin for “Morning Star” it’s literal translation is “Bringer of Light” since in Latin Fero is I bring and Lux is light

“No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell.”

Gotta understand the game board of duality to understand the "Game of 'God'" to its fullest

I was expecting something good, OP. If this is all the “evidence” you have, you should take your pretentious italicized words and do something else with your time.

Those aren’t gods words though. Those were interpreted by men for thousands of years now. They could easily be misinterpreated by now.

If you’re some kind of neck beardy ass hat that gets off to trying to delegitimizing Christianity then it makes sense that you’re cherry picking verses that contradict the context they’re being surrounded by. It’s really easy to cherry pick and take something completely out of context.

You probably heard this idea somewhere and got excited that you might be able to harvest karma. This is played out man. It’s annoying and played out.

Lol your italicized words.. it’s the truth. I mean there’s nothing else to say. Would you like for me to build a time machine and go back to investigate who Christians are actually worshipping? You present a straw man attack. You know there’s virtually no way to refute your hypothesis.

It’s like saying: I present the argument that cold is not “cold” but “not hot”! Hazzah! Take that cold sympathizers!

How in the hell is anyone supposed to rebut against that? It’s impossible. No ones angry at you. It’s just a moot point to rebut against an argument you can’t rebut against. And it would take monk-like devotion in the texts of the Bible and I admittedly, don’t have that knowledge of verses at least not enough to cherry pick specific verses for arguments sake.

It’s like saying: I present the argument that cold is not “cold” but “not hot”! Hazzah! Take that cold sympathizers!

Talmudic reasoning in a nutshell.

So is this entire thread.

I'm angry at him. He's just being a twat. Intentionally trying to ruffle feathers. I doubt OP has actually studied the Bible as much as he claims to either. That's the thing about being an anonymous internet troll. You can claim any old shit. One things for sure. He's a twat.

You're not just pissing off Christians though. You're pissing off everyone who sees what a prick you are, which anyone who reads this thread will. Your ulterior motive is showing. Quick, tuck it back under your neck beard. He doesn't need a rebuttal because you don't actually have an argument. It's bollocks. Falls down on its own once you read through your posts. You admit it's a misconception with legs. Morning star is a title. The only one conflating the figures of Jesus and Lucifer, fictional or otherwise, is you. You're just too arrogant to realise how stupid you are so you double down on being a cunt. Good luck finding that gf mate. One day.

By your own words Christianity has deligitimized itself. Because the so called word of God has been passed down and retranslated for 2000 years. So what is your point?

The point was that it’s easy to take things out of context. And yes, if you want to take it a step further that lends to the possibility of Christians being inherently wrong with their Bible text-based beliefs. But it’s a two way street.

Christianity didn't delegitimise itself. It's a belief. It can be held but it lacks individual agency. It can't legitimise or delegitimise dick. People did that shit.

Exactly. Neck beard asshat picking on an easy target. Probably thought all of Reddit would shower him in gold and medals.

Great quotes. There's a regular debate about this here, as I'm sure you're aware.

I'd like to hear the thoughts of whenipeeithurts and OTGODISDEMIURGE. Not sure how to summon them forth without my salt circle and crystals though.

Lol. Yeah, I was playing devils advocate a bit there. Not that I don't enjoy either of their contributions.

I thought you used to post semi-regularly, but I may be mistaken.

I think the idea is that Lucifer/the snake who convinces Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge, is actually a good guy, maybe the same being as the God in the NT. And of course the God in the OT is the Demiurge, who is not necessarily a good guy at all.

Do you think the OT writers meant it to just be a snake, or something more? I'd think the snake was symbolic of something. The snake has had a religious connotation, seemingly from the beginning of civilization. The Minoans worshipped a Snake Goddess, and I think the reasoning had something to do with snakes living in our world and in the underworld because they existed above ground but could also go below. That's what I remember learning in my Classical Mythology class, anyway.

I think the Serpent might be a personification of Sophia/Gaia. The Gnostic Aeon, (serpent of Light, opposing force against the Archons) Sophia, is usually represented by the planet Earth itself or nature. I think she was trying to awaken us to the illusion/matrix/false reality we are living in that the Demiurge created (to trap light/feed upon trapped spirit).

It's what I believe Kristos (Sophia's Aeon consort) does as well. He incarnates into this realm, his love's material construct (as Osiris, Dumuzid/Tammuz, Attis, Adonis, Lord Pakal, Mithra, Krishna etc) to shatter the system and bring Light in hopes he may save his celestial partner.

He was/is a Dragon:

Rev_12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This shows he used to have legs:

Gen_3:14  And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Now he is Leviathan. Basically a sea Dragon:

Job 41:1  Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? 

Job 41:2  Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? 

Job 41:3  Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? 

Job 41:4  Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? 

Job 41:5  Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens? 

Job 41:6  Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants? 

Job 41:7  Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears? 

Job 41:8  Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more. 

Job 41:9  Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? 

Job 41:10  None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me? 

Job 41:11  Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. 

Job 41:12  I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion. 

Job 41:13  Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle? 

Job 41:14  Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about. 

Job 41:15  His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. 

Job 41:16  One is so near to another, that no air can come between them. 

Job 41:17  They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. 

Job 41:18  By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. 

Job 41:19  Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. 

Job 41:20  Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. 

Job 41:21  His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. 

Job 41:22  In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him. 

Job 41:23  The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved. 

Job 41:24  His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone. 

Job 41:25  When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves. 

Job 41:26  The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. 

Job 41:27  He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. 

Job 41:28  The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. 

Job 41:29  Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear. 

Job 41:30  Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire. 

Job 41:31  He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment. 

Job 41:32  He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary. 

Job 41:33  Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 

Job 41:34  He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride. 

Interesting, you make a strong argument. So do you think that the serpent in the garden of eden is the same as satan, which is the same as lucifer? And that the OT and NT God is the same God? Basically the traditional Christian views?

Yes, what traditional Christianity gets wrong is the 'Son of God' is also the same God who became a man and that man is called "Son of God." The whole "Trinity" of three separate persons is un-biblical and a Catholic teaching.

Luk_1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Notice he's called the Son of God. It's a title.

Isa_9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The child is Christ Jesus and he is "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father"

Zec_12:10  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Zechariah is speaking for God the Father and he says "look upon me whom they have pierced" referring to the spear that went into his side.

Col 2:6  As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:  Col 2:7  Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.  Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.  Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Godhead is the real word that describes his deity (not trinity) and Christ Jesus is fully God "bodily." He is the human body of God. Called the Son of God.

God himself paid for your sins with his blood. Repent and believe this to be saved:

1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 

That makes sense.

Out of curiosity, have you ever read the Gospel of Mary? Mary seems to think that all of us are sons and daughters of God, and that Jesus was just "enlightened," like the Buddha or something. I have to admit that I sort of like that idea.

I love Jesus because I feel that he fought the evil Satanic Jews (in name only) who were trying to rule the world even back then, and who mostly rule the world today.

Those are false Gnostic texts that are designed to lead you astray. The King James Bible alone is the pure word of God. Those texts contradict it for a reason.

Yes, Jesus Christ stood up to false fake religion which is pretty much found in 99.9% of buildings people call "Church" in the world. The true Church is the body of born again believers who follow Paul's gospel which I pasted above.

Those are false Gnostic texts that are designed to lead you astray. The King James Bible alone is the pure word of God. Those texts contradict it for a reason.

Huh.

The king of Tyrus is the demonic entity behind the prince of Tyre and it's clearly the Dragon (serpent) from Eden. There were only three beings there, Adam, Eve, and the Serpent:

Eze 28:12  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.  Eze 28:13  *Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; * every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.  Eze 28:14  Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.  Eze 28:15  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.  Eze 28:16  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.  Eze 28:17  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.  Eze 28:18  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.  Eze 28:19  All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. 

You can compare it with Isaiah and the rest of the scriptures to see it's the same anointed Cherub that is Lucifer. I'm not going to bother trying to explain this further to you. You are not led by the spirit of truth because you are lost.

You aren't trying to "help" anyone. You are purposefully trying to deceive people.

Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (Dragon) were the only created beings that could walk and talk in the Garden. Do you understand now? Is it really that hard to comprehend? For you, yes it is because as I said, you are lost and can't understand a spiritual book.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

You need to get saved first by repenting and believing Paul's gospel:

1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 

How about you read the entire Bible and find any reference to other intelligent created life in the Garden and get back to me. You have to make up things that aren't in Scripture. I use what is given and it's pretty simple.

You just don't know your Bible and you don't understand how it defines itself. It's ok you aren't suppose to. You need to get saved first:

Rev_12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Fuck you

The serpent is representative of our Kundalini.

Also apparently representative to Enki, God of the Water. My opinion? Enki was a motherfuckin' dragon!

I suspect that the Serpent is Enki, the God of the Water.

Enki may be our creator.

Yahweh is apparently King Anu. He's a deceiver and a psychopath in this theory.

Who is Jesus/Lucifer, then? (I've considered this link before.) Enlil is considered to be the God of the Air.

Is Jesus/Lucifer actually Enlil? Was Enlil previously aligned with Anu but "fell from grace" after defecting to work with Enki? Who knows.

I'm not an expert so I might be wrong but I have spent way more time researching this than I'd like to admit.

I agree that Enki/Lucifer is man's creator. He was a scientist and used the caducius/serpent as his symbol. Enki had a couple of sons, one of which was Ningishzidda/Thoth, who was always passing on widsom and knowledge to benefit mankind.

I believe Enlil is Yahweh. Enlil is the war god, a military commander. Enlil raped his half sister, he is a monster. If you read the lost book of Enki you will see that Enki, Enlil and Ninhursag were forced to stay on Earth. They were unable to return to Nibiru because the difference in gravity between the two planets would have killed them. Anu was on Nibiru while this took place so he couldn't have been Yahweh because Yahweh was physically interacting with man.

So it was Enlil/Yahweh that ordered man's extermination on several occasions and it was Enki that defied command to save mankind.

I also believe that Jesus simply shared bloodlines with Enki/Lucifer. This is why they shared descriptions such as the morning star. Now, taking into consideration that Enki used his own DNA and mixed it with a hominid to create man (artificial insemination), the story of the Virgin birth of Jesus now seems plausible. Mary was told that god (Enki) chose her to have a child. Enki simply artificially inseminated the virgin Mary using his "pure" DNA to create a child with the purest God like genetics. So Christ was both man and God, just as the story says. IMO, when considering the Sumerian tablets as a compliment to the Bible version the stories dovetail together nicely and lots of questions are answered.

Again, I could be wrong and I strongly encourage everyone to do their own research when looking for answers.

Yes, I'm familiar with that term. As you say, when considering the much order Sumerian creation story of multiple gods (which obviously inspired the bible) including Enki and Enlil, now the huge questions that the Bible doesn't address starts making sense. I really don't even like playing the name games across different cultures with all the "gods." It just adds more confusion.

I really, really wish someone would fund the translations of the 10s of thousands of tablets collecting dust in some basement in London. There could be global paradigm shifting wisdom sitting right there waiting to be uncovered.

What does it say about the sky being digital?

Because one translation (Jerome’s) to Latin makes an error you cackle with glee.

Do you know the unforgivable sin? To attribute to satan the works of God. Getting pretty close here.

What’s really astounding is that you think you figured this out and masses of Christians are deceived. No doctrine is based on obscure terms but on the entire weight of scripture.

Remember my last sentence when you are on Your bowed knee declaring Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. No one is except, even scoffers like you.

Conflating Christians and Catholics?

I love showing this to my Catholic friends...same “wtf” reaction every time https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yzurtPFe9jE

They're all the same goyim.

Nah. Christian got fed to lions. Catholics ruled Rome.

Agreed.

You sure about that?

Fairly, yea.

Early Christians hated the Catholics, and vice versa. The whole Catholic Church was instituted to blunt and absorb the rising Christian faith. Catholics turned the Bible fundamentalist, or literalist. Christians knew the Bible to be allegory and metaphor.

Catholics, aka the Roman nobility, aka Babylon, spent centuries trying to steer Christian policy, and finally succeeded at the Council of Nicea.

Everything that flows from the Vatican is Catholic.

This is why the King James Bible and only the King James Bible is the purified, pure, preserved, perfect word of God. BIG SURPRISE that all of you led by the spirit of iniquity that try to correct it end up with Luciferian doctrine. Just like the NIV and all other PERversions.

See how you have to try to "correct" it? It's the only way to come up with your false doctrine. There is a reason why all the Freemasons worship the Light Bearer and people like you spread this stuff.

You've found the verses. Praise the Lord! Why do you study bullshit you don't believe in so hard anyway, cuck? What were you searching for? Why devote all that time you claim to have put in? So you have lots of "ammo" to shit all over the dumb pious Christos? Sounds like you wasted a lot of time no wonder you're so asshurt. So here's a question: what evidence did you present here that isn't already plastered all over the Internet in info graphic form? And where did the priest touch you?

You revealed yourself quite well there

As what?

Will do. You keep on teasing disillusioned people and pretending you know any better. My issue is arrogant fucks. I'm practically allergic. Keep thinking you're smarter than everyone else. Maybe someday if you screech autistically loud enough it'll become a party of two. Probably not though.

I'm sure I will. Ignoring you seems like a good start. You were just being an inflammatory disrespectful dismissive shit. It's not a conspiracy and it's not relevant here. Take your bible bashing to a religious subreddit. Flat earther a do a good enough job making modern Christians look stupid anyway without you pissing all over the floor like an incontinent mongrel. Literally nobody cares about your stupid gripe with organised religion. Oh they got you good boy. Still butt hurt in 2018. You're not cool. Or even particularly clever. Shitting all over religion is so half a decade ago. You missed the boat. Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens left without you. And they did it intentionally because they think you're annoying. They're not wrong.

You're logic is flawed. Just because they are described, whether by themselves or others, does not prove they are the same being. For example, both Muhamed Ali and Colin Kapernick can be described as black athletes who fought for racial justice. That does not make them the same person. In fact, history is filled with people who share the same nickname. This does not make them the being.

Lucifer is latin for the morning star. Satan means adversary. The Angel who fell from grace was the most beautiful of all Angels. He shined the brightest. Hence, calling him the morning star. The brightest star in the heavens. He, also, rebelled against God and tried to overthrow him. Hence, calling him Satan. Jesus Christ is God. Therefore, he shines the brightest of all. Hence, the morning star. Now, if its used as a name is your reasoning. So is the descriptive Great used as a name for several historical figures. Such as, Alexander, Peter, and Catherine. According to your logic they must all be the same person. Its their name, right?

And, I'm pretty sure the messiah's name is Yeshua! And he is called Jesus in translation. Not the morning star. He is referred to as the morning star. And, your own point says that they are referring to the king of babylon not the devil. So, the morning star there is also description not his name. And, I suppose when Jesus' fasted in the desert, he was tempting himself. Your logic and reasoning is flawed. If you are going to attack a persons religion at least have the decency to understand it first. Read the whole bible yourself. Don't just go off what other people have said, so you can seem clever. In a sense, its no different than Sugar Ray Leonard or Sugar Ray Robinson. You are trying to say that just because they're both called Sugar Ray they're the sane person. Nobody refers Jesus by the name of Lucifer. He called Lucifer because it means morning star. A description. Let me repeat. Nobody who is Christian refers to Jesus as Lucifer by name. So, your basic premise is wrong.

I see what your saying. And, I can understand it. Lucifer is just one way of referring to the being we call the devil. There is also Satan, Beelzebub. You're being too literal with the name. Another way of thinking about is Jesus is God. The true morning star. The brightest star in heaven. The devil is the false one cuz he was a created being. Lucifer is just one way of referencing the devil and overtime it becomes a version of his name. You need to understand this happens in the passage of time. Someone didn't sit down one day and say the devil is lucifer and everyone accepted it. This came about slowly over a period of time. And, it became accepted. Its not as if they were writing a story and said this is the villain. It doesn't work that way. Right or wrong. I'm trying to explain this as best I can but I don't have a Phd in Theology, so I know my explaination is flawed.

You took that angle purely to shit on Christians and probably to show everyone how very clever you are. But none of this is your own original research. Everything you've regurgitated was found out by some other cunt before you, all you did was add extra arrogance.

Whether you're right or wrong you're still rocking the boat and being a cunt for no apparent reason. Nobody asked you to start this thread. You're literally just using cointelpro D and C tactics. To be fair to the Bible at least it actually contains revelations. An entire books worth. This post on the other hand contains no revelations that can't already be found in 100 different YouTube videos. The so called Red Pills you're dropping are really entry level bullshit for 4/8channers anyway.

You make it sound like Christians collectively decided to make up an entity called Lucifer one day. All got together and voted on it. This is an obvious fallacy. Your argument isn't an argument, you just wanted to talk shit. Whistle out the side of your neck at an easy target. Look at the stupid Christos muh!

Perhaps it would serve you better to be a bit more like Jesus or Lucifer, if you rather(lol fucking edgy and stuff!), and just shut your mouth and respect others beliefs. That way if you ever decide to believe in something other than your own arrogance- which is definitely real- people will be less likely to shit all over it.

And for someone who thinks religions are cults you sure have spent a lot of time looking into them. A lot by the sounds of things. Sounds like your ass hurts a lot too.

You could have done a thread on all religions essentially being cults or pointed out contradictions in other religions in tandem with the ones you see in Christianity. But no. As an admitted ex-Christian and just like a jilted ex-lover you bitch about Christianity. You found out Santa Claus wasn't real and now nobody gets to believe in Santa AND you're posting all the revenge porn. Fine. If you want to reprogram cult members that's all well and good. No need to be such a smug cunt. Sad!

PS: Where's the conspiracy? OP has admitted its a misconception with legs, not a conspiracy and therefore not relevant to r/conspiracy. M'kay?

Then why do satanic people curse his name so much? Have you ever seen the way possessed people hate the word Christ when they're being exorcised? I'm not saying you're wrong or right but it makes me wonder.

it's not what you believe, it's the faith you have in it, the energy you give. if you believe in christ, it will manifest as such.

also, those possessions are filmed by english speaking people and most, judaism, christianity, and islam, alike at the end of the day, worship the same entity.

watch some shamanic exorcisms in africa. or south america. or india. the footage is there if you are interested in finding it.

LUCIFER - MORNING STAR- VENUS - APHRODITE - LOVE Worshiped in many Slavic cultures, like Lithuania. And the symbol of the morning star is the Maltese cross. Lucifer is not the devil, "god" is. That's the deception. Demons are not evil, they are "dalmons - the all knowing ones". There you go.

Lucifer only came to be equated with a fallen angel and conflated with Satan after Milton did so in 'Paradise Lost', which, obviously, is non-biblical. Lucifer previously was a salutation conferred to denote an enlightened being possessing knowledge, that's it. The modern misunderstanding is derived from a fictional, extra-biblical 17th century poem, and from those that have helped spread and continue to perpetuate this fallacy.

The greatest trick is the marriage of the Old Testament with the New Testament. The OT & NT deities are not the same, and say so. By doing so, Christians have been unknowingly tricked into essentially worshiping Satan as their God, and this was intentionally done.

What's your point? The entire post seems to just be snidely shitting on Christians for how stupid they are when its actually not their fault that a common misconception has arisen as a direct result of deceit from past clergy. Even then it makes no sense for you to conflate Jesus and Lucifer when it's your contention that Lucifer just means Venus. I'm not even religious but you sound like a cunt. Zealous atheists are the worst. By the way when do you EVER hear Christians ranting about Luciferians? They rant about Satanists douchebag. And no, they're not the same thing. Okay so you don't believe in the Bible. No need to be such a fucking cunt about it. It's not cackle worthy that cult members/religious people think the way they do either. It's sad.

Also iirc, after his crucifixion it's said that Jesus went to hell and released a whole bunch of demons.

Lucifer = Bringer of Light

Seems light humanity could use the light.

First, your message would be better received if you weren't so pedantic. The "You're Welcome"'s and using 'His name in vain", or "gasp!"'s, "spooky!" etc are disingenuous. I am not a Christian, but your tone in a debate such as this needs a bit of fine tuning - you are talking about people's beliefs here.. whether you agree with them or not, give some respect.

On to the claim; Jesus is Lucifer (not synonymous, but literally) and that Christians worship him unknowingly.

What we know about the word Lucifer ~ Latin; bearer/bringer of light. Was used synonymously with Venus, the star in the morning that heralded dawn or as a metaphor for "The Light in the darkness before the dawn"). It is also used in Isiah 14 to refer to your mentioned Babylonian King, Helal, Son of Shahar. The rest of Isiah 14 is about how this King said he was going to be as great as the most High etc and this response (like a diss track) is about his failure to attain such heights (fallen star). How all the other Kings did great things and this King destroyed great cultural cities and made the world wilderness and the like.

So we can put this verse (Isiah 14:12) aside as any reference to compare Jesus to Lucifer (as neither is mentioned in relation to each other beyond the word "Lucifer" itself). The word "Lucifer" in this instance is used to portray the Babylonian King poetically as a fallen star about to be outshined by a real bright and glorious King. Follow me on an aside: I believe there was a descent of beings (the Igigi or Watchers in the Bible/Book of Enoch) that corrupted mankind and interbred with them though:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

You see it here as well:

Enoch 12:4-5 Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves 5 wives

In chapter 14, Enoch again confirms what Gensis 6:2 states when it says the Igigi/Watchers were "sons of God"

4 the Watchers, the children of heaven.

Enoch states again and again that:

Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men

If you compare this story with the Igigi/Igigu of the Atra-Hasis you see there were the Annunaki/Annuna and the Igigi, distinguished here: http://www.livius.org/sources/content/anet/104-106-the-epic-of-atrahasis/

[5] the seven great Anunna-gods were burdening
the Igigi-gods with forced labor.

These lesser-gods revolt against Enlil and convince the Annuna to create man for labor (as slaves). Time goes on after man is created, and the world becomes corrupt (interbreeding, sin etc just as mentioned in the Bible). The story of Atra-hasis becomes strikingly similar to that of the story of Noah. Enki, while talking to a wall of reeds (because he told the other Gods he wouldn't let mankind know the deluge was coming) near Atrahasis tells him to ready the fuck up and build a boat:

Reed wall, pay attention to all my words!
Flee the house, build a boat,
forsake possessions, and save life.

The comparative Bible passage:

Gensis 6:13-14 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood...

So maybe you can see how in the Bible, Enki (in the Atrahasis) is referred to as "The LORD" or "God", but is not in actuality YHWH. Just like Lucifer is a term used through time or is amalgamated into myth does not mean it actually means what you think it may mean.

Back to the original argument, I just had to confirm there was a "fall" in the Bible that is still very important, just not the one referencing the Babylonian King in Isiah 14 and people shouldn't use this quote to confirm Lucifer is a fallen angle etc.

Job 11:17 you reference the same thing, but as you say, Lucifer is used there to describe the brightness of the star (planet Venus) before dawn. There is no reference to Jesus being Lucifer. In 2nd Peter 1:19, I believe the use of Lucifer here is used as a metaphor. Be like Venus, the light in the darkness before the dawn. "as unto a light that shineth in a dark place.. until dawn". Basically, Peter is saying be strong in these times of darkness - for the Sun is coming soon. It's beautiful poetry really.

If you use this metaphor (the light in the darkness before the dawn - the celestial metaphor for Venus that anyone can witness and understand in those times - think of it like a Movie quote in today's times) as is used by Jesus in Revelations, you will see it fits well. He is not proclaiming to be Lucifer, some fallen angel, but the light in the darkness before the dawn.

So, for me, I have proven that Lucifer is not Jesus regardless of a similar term used between the two (of which, either may or may not have existed at all in history - which is irrelevant to your claim). I also do not see any Christians believing in Christ falsely as anyone else besides Christ - that they are not mistaking him for Lucifer or are being deceived in this particular instance. Believing in Christ goes beyond any passage or verse. Check out the apocrypha or Nag Hammadi Codices http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html for the good juicy stuff taken out of the Bible. Remember, most of the Bible is borrowed from other ancient myths of Sumeria (and other civilizations) and I highly encourage you to look at the precedents when bringing blanket assumptions like this to the field.

My tone isn't going to reach any Christians, regardless of how nice or un-nice it is. A deep rooted belief in the bible isn't going to be shaken by anyone's words.

Wrong assumption. You do not know everyone or their beliefs or their willingness to change those beliefs (or how much they give credence to a certain belief).

just to point out the logical conclusion of what happens when you turn a simple word for "morning star" into some eternal supervillain.

I have demonstrated to you, in each of your verses and examples that use of the word Lucifer (Venus, morning star) and it's intended metaphorical meaning (a light in darkness before the dawn). If people wish to associate the word Lucifer with a fallen angel or super villain, they would be incorrect. If people were to associate the word Lucifer for Jesus, it would also be incorrect (as it's a title, a metaphor).

If we're going to use the word that way, and apply it consistently to the rest of its uses in the Bible, then it logically follows that Christians worship Lucifer.

You are assuming every one/Christian applies the word 'Lucifer' with consistency through out the Bible. I can tell you that is not the case. You assume all Christians are dumber than most think and can't comprehend a word may have multiple meanings in a book that spans millennia and is written by different authors in several languages (some dead). This is incorrect as well. Christians scrutinize and research the Bible more than the skeptics.

"Morning star means Lucifer (The character), and Vic versa.

Wrong. Morning Star means the Planet Venus. The planet Venus, shown brightest in the East just prior to the rising Sun. It is a metaphor used during those times (like I said, it would be like a quote from the Matrix or a popular movie every one knew as all they had at night were stories about the stars). The metaphor, as stated previously is; "You are the light in the darkness right before the dawn (of the second coming, judgement, the apocalypse, a new age?)" It's very much like saying you are a bright star during the Kali Yuga, or the darkest cycle in the Indian mythos.

Lucifer means Morning Star, not some being or fallen angel or agent of Satan. Some Christians may believe in Lucifer (or associate him with the Devil or Satan), but that would be incorrect. There is an anti-christ that is said to appear before the second coming, but that is not Lucifer.

Peter and Jesus use the same words to describe/name himself.

Wrong. They used the words to describe them self metaphorically, as the morning star, or "the light in the darkness prior to dawn" or "as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn". There is no detailed description saying "I am Jesus, also known as Lucifer - the Fallen Angel who works with Satan to corrupt man's hearts and minds."

I have literally shown you where Jesus says he is the Morning Star/Lucifer and means it as a metaphor (how can that phrase from Revelations be taken as anything else but a metaphor and not equating him self as another being). I am the light in the dark before the dawn. He doesn't say any thing in regards to being a 'fallen angel' or agent of the Devil. He equates himself to the Morning Star. The Morning Star is a metaphor I have repeated time and time again to you, but you deny to acknowledge any thing I have brought up to disprove your hypothesis.

Christians worship Lucifer.

You base this on that a word is immutable and has one meaning, which is incorrect. You say Christians worship Lucifer, but in the same argument claim he doesn't exist (in the example of Isaiah) and is an interpretation of the Morning Star/Venus in regards to the Babylonian King. You acknowledge this definition, yet occlude it from the rest of your discussion contradicting yourself and your conclusions. You say Lucifer is used in Isaiah when insulting the Babylonian King (which scholars agree on) but then can't accept that the metaphor is used by Jesus to describe him self (which in that verse I think he may be describing King David or him self) or that Peter uses it as metaphor to hold fast and be strong.

There is literally no connection or a basis for your claims from the verses and evidence you provide. You do not link that Lucifer is an actual being (whether you believe it or not, you are claiming that he exists and that Christians believe in him under the guise of Jesus) or give an example of Jesus saying the he is a fallen angel from heaven, come to do whatever Lucifer is supposed to do. Even if Jesus (which he may appear to be doing in Revelations) claims to be Lucifer, he is claiming it as metaphor (a light in darkness before dawn).

they're the only ones who can hear it..Christians, and all abrahamic followers, have eyes, but can't see. Ears, but can't hear. They read, but can't understand. So my tone toward them is inconsequential, in my opinion.

Wrong. The occult law is, only when one is ready/asks, do you share your knowledge. The maxim, pearls before swine. Some may be ready for what you have to say (Christian or not), some may not. Some of the most open minded people I've talked to in my life were Christians. Some of the most close minded individuals I've talked to have been atheists. Your tone towards ALL (Christian or not) has consequence, you just don't care about it.

Words have meaning, and if they're going to twist a word into absurdity, I'll point out the amusing implications

You have pointed out zero implications because the basis of your argument is inherently flawed. You assume too much, know too little and have too much emotion involved (apparent by your tone, distastefulness and pedantry). Yes, some people conflate the use of Lucifer with some Fallen Angel super villain out to ruin man - but that is not all. You conflating Jesus and Lucifer has no logic, no evidence and implies nothing.

You sound like me, rebelling against my Sunday School classes when I was eight.

You aren't trying to "help" anyone. You are purposefully trying to deceive people.

Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (Dragon) were the only created beings that could walk and talk in the Garden. Do you understand now? Is it really that hard to comprehend? For you, yes it is because as I said, you are lost and can't understand a spiritual book.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

You need to get saved first by repenting and believing Paul's gospel:

1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: