Miriam-Webster officially changed their definition of “fascism” to specifically refer to the Nazi regime instead of any oppressive government regime that shows extreme intolerance towards opposing opinions.
1 2018-08-07 by donniedenier
I wish I had side by side proof. I only figured this out because I wanted to make a point against ANTIFA just now.
Last time I looked up “fascism” to prove a point, the definition was clearly along the lines of “an authoritarian style government that uses violence and force against opposing ideologies and viewpoints.”
But now they extended the definition to specifically state that it’s a nationalistic ideology with extreme biases on race.
Fascism doesn’t necessarily have to do with race or nationalism, right? That definitely wasn’t in the definition before.
45 comments
1 QnsConcrete 2018-08-07
The online version of Merriam-Webster does not mention Nazism in its definition.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
It doesn’t directly say Nazism, it just says it values nationalism and race over the individual. That’s specifically the principles of the Nazi party.
1 QnsConcrete 2018-08-07
If you’re making a semantic point about definitions, you shouldn’t say it “specifically refer[s]” to the Nazi regime, when in fact it doesn’t.
The specific tenets of fascism have often been debated by historians and that definition is not unreasonable.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Well I know, for certain, the previous definition didn’t specifically mention nationalism and racism. I remember a fascist ideology simply referred to any authoritarian government that used force against opposing ideologies. I’ve definitely used the old definition to point out how the ANTIFA movement is ironically fascist.
1 HyneksScale 2018-08-07
How could it when Benito Mussolini never once said any such thing?
Also;
What government is antifa?
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
I mean ANTIFA believes in an authoritarian government and they use violence against anyone that opposes them. Making them fascists. Like how someone can be a communist or a democrat or a republican without being a government.
1 HyneksScale 2018-08-07
No, they don’t.
You’re mistaking AntiFa for an organisation, with a central tenet system and singular belief in how governments can/should be run...
Instead of what it actually is, which is a meet-and-greet, worldwide collaboration of all ideologies that aren’t facist coming together.
You’re also tenuously linking violence and fascism, but not all violence is fascism.
However, even if none of that was true, fascism is 100% a Nationalist ideology with racial bias, so your op isn’t correct anyways.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
I’ve personally been to Philly’s ANTIFA headquarters and I can tell you, for certain, they are definitely communists. They have newsletters calling for violent protests all over the city, and they have a ton of Soviet propaganda and upside down American flags all over their space.
1 HyneksScale 2018-08-07
Uhhuh... look... I’ve no reason to believe or disbelieve your claim...
But if the Philly branch are communists, as you say, then how on god’s green earth can they be fascists?
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
If we agree that a fascist government is an authoritarian government that persecutes opposing ideologies with force, then communism fits that mold. You can’t have an all powerful government controlling the entire nation’s wealth to redistribute without authoritarianism and force.
1 HyneksScale 2018-08-07
We don’t agree, because fascism is an inherently nationalistic ideology, often based on racial bias, where corporate power merges with the State to become one monolithic overseer...
Fascism was concocted by Benito Mussolini, you can look at his quotes on the subject to see why you are wrong.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
there’s this.
Seeing as how Philly’s Antifa idolizes Stalin, I can they they’re at least “Red Fascists”
1 WhatAreYouHoldenTo 2018-08-07
We don't agree because facism is extreme nationalism. What you're defining is an authoritarian gov't in general. Ffs.
1 Drake02 2018-08-07
There are a surprising number of users who attempt to harp on how disorganized they are, except they show up in buses to schools in droves of 50+.
Someone is paying. Maybe it's daddy's money that they feel bad for having that 'privilege', maybe they are funded through radical professors at Universities, but they are definitely receiving funding or donations from political disrupters.
1 WhatAreYouHoldenTo 2018-08-07
Lol ive had bigger birthday parties. What you're talking about is a nationally centralized organization that has clear motives. Antifa doesn't, it's like BLM, a common issue attracts people who then rallie to demonstrate their position, it isn't nationally centralized at all.
1 Drake02 2018-08-07
It isn't national, but to believe it is a disorganized movement without heavy funding is asinine if you've seen them roll in on your campus.
Like I said, there is a movement to minimize their presence online. It's like a faux-defense for them.
It's nothing like BLM.
1 elMacho_Raton 2018-08-07
Right. A good counter-example would be Unite the Right style rallies.
They bussed in a bunch of different groups.... But that doesn't mean all those groups were centrally organized under one banner. It was a meet up
1 tikitakithrowaway 2018-08-07
That was not my impression of ANTIFA, so how did you come to this conclusion?
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Like I mentioned before, they want the government to censor and limit your first amendment rights, they want to ban your weapons, they want to over regulate your personal life and business, and they want the government to control your income, ideas, and production to redistribute to the rest of the country (communism) plus, from personal experience at their HQ, they completely idolize Stalin.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Correct me if I’m wrong, ANTIFA wants the government to ban your guns, they want the government to regulate more aspects of your life and business, they want the government to censor and limit your freedom of speech, and they’re communists so they want to government to control your income, ideas, and production to redistribute to the rest of the country. What about that isn’t authoritarian and by proxy, fascist? At least by the original definition.
1 olenbarus12 2018-08-07
I thought they wanted communism which is the people owning the means of production
1 toxicpiano 2018-08-07
I ask all the time for redditors to give me a good reason why China SHOULDN'T be considered a fascist state and nine times out of ten they can't do it without mentioning nazis and hitler.
It's absolutely pathetic.
1 Bruce_de_Balzac 2018-08-07
There's also that whole state-corporate synthesis/symbiosis, which USA, Inc. has had since early on in its beginnings, especially if you ascribe to the theory of the US being the continuation of The Virginia Company.
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
But we've been in a period of hybrid ideologies since early-mid 20th C. We're in a weird socio-fascist corporatocracy that's morphing into a further, more narrow and stringent/iron-fist, global version of the same. Their idea is eventual soviet-style totalitarian socialism for the masses, with a controlling, capitalistic, self-enriching ruling elite.
1 Dro99 2018-08-07
You're right. Fascism as it was created by Mussolini had nothing about races. It was just about state's and personal interest. Where interests of the country were higher than personal liberties. That's it.
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-08-07
Yeah, so OP is not “right.” Your definition his right. His, the “oppwessive govewnment wegime” is wrong.
1 PassionateNobody 2018-08-07
99% approval rating? That's fucking bullshit and being beaten up by brownshirts for voicing support for another party is not high approval. Hitler couldn't even win the election legitimately and used violence to suppress oppression.
1 Ballsdeepinreality 2018-08-07
Yes, Germans overwhelmingly supported Hitler because they were doing well. Violence was only used initially to silence political opponents, don't need to force anyone to do things through violence when you can give them national pride and a full belly, those people will die for you.
1 joe_jaywalker 2018-08-07
To “suppress oppression?” Ok guy. I think you mean opposition, but you’d still be wrong.
1 187ninjuh 2018-08-07
How does the State's relationship with Corporations factor into that definition? I was always under the impression that the state-corporate relationship was a key aspect of Fascism.
1 Dro99 2018-08-07
Yes, your correction is right. Thank you. I just forget to mention corporations in my post. BTW in most fascist country of nowadays, which is Russia, all fundamental industries like oil and gas production, all they are named as "state owned corporations" which are in fact, under the full control of super rich and influential JEWS. So-called "state owned corporations", "global corporation" all them are parts of Fascist philosophy. That's why I agree with the statement "Globalism is a corporate Fascism"
1 WarrenBuffett_ 2018-08-07
Why not try to see if some archive sites have it?
1 Justsaguy12345 2018-08-07
Waybackmachine should.
1 murphy212 2018-08-07
The correct definition is indeed “socialism that is nationalistic” (opposed to Marxism, i.e. socialism that is international).
But you are right, national socialism is not limited to Germany. People often forget that both Hitler and Mussolini were prominent socialist statesmen.
Mussolini published Il Trentino veduto da un Socialista. He was later editor of the Italian socialist Party newspaper Avanti! Under his leadership, its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000. During this period, Mussolini considered himself a Marxist and he described Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."
From 1912, Mussolini was a leading member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI). He was later expelled from the PSI for advocating military intervention in World War I, in opposition to the party's stance on neutrality.
And someone asks, no, he didn't change his underlying ideology or worldview before being expelled and founding the fascist party - he merely altered his socialism to make it nationalist instead of internationalist.
1 Justsaguy12345 2018-08-07
Wow. Who would have thought he was a Marxist.
1 murphy212 2018-08-07
Actually, it makes a lot of sense once you look into the philosophical tenets of collectivism.
In a nutshell: the individual does not have any natural, inherent and inalienable rights; the very idea is preposterous; the rights to life and liberty are abhorrent, as they are "selfish"; whatever little rights man has was granted by the State, and may thus be revoked at anytime. This is often necessary, as the sacred collective supersedes the filthy individual. The "greater good", as defined by the State, is all that matters; an individual life means nothing, and may be expediently sacrificed at any time on any day.
Collectivism is a philosophy founded on tyranny, debt, war, and death. Fascism and Marxism, two sides of the same coin, illustrate this well.
One last thing: modern neoliberalism is the "perfect" syncretism between the two.
1 azsqueeze 2018-08-07
So he did chang his underlying ideology.
1 WarlordBeagle 2018-08-07
Well, you can't have "Fascism" apply to both the Nazis AND the Jews...
1 WhatAreYouHoldenTo 2018-08-07
Incorrect. Fascism has always been taught as extreme nationalism. I learned that in 8th grade.
1 4brkfast 2018-08-07
Fascism has nothing to do with Nazism or national socialism directly.
It is a 'perfect merger of government and corporation', as Mussolini stated.
The military industry is by definition fascism.
1 nickyacullo 2018-08-07
it sure seems as if the definition hasn't changed much between now and 2007: Here
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Huh... you got me there. Guess I had my own little weird “Mandela Effect” thing. I would’ve bet my left nut that nationalism and racism had nothing to do with the “old” definition. Welp, I concede my argument.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
I mean ANTIFA believes in an authoritarian government and they use violence against anyone that opposes them. Making them fascists. Like how someone can be a communist or a democrat or a republican without being a government.
1 HyneksScale 2018-08-07
No, they don’t.
You’re mistaking AntiFa for an organisation, with a central tenet system and singular belief in how governments can/should be run...
Instead of what it actually is, which is a meet-and-greet, worldwide collaboration of all ideologies that aren’t facist coming together.
You’re also tenuously linking violence and fascism, but not all violence is fascism.
However, even if none of that was true, fascism is 100% a Nationalist ideology with racial bias, so your op isn’t correct anyways.
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Correct me if I’m wrong, ANTIFA wants the government to ban your guns, they want the government to regulate more aspects of your life and business, they want the government to censor and limit your freedom of speech, and they’re communists so they want to government to control your income, ideas, and production to redistribute to the rest of the country. What about that isn’t authoritarian and by proxy, fascist? At least by the original definition.
1 tikitakithrowaway 2018-08-07
That was not my impression of ANTIFA, so how did you come to this conclusion?
1 donniedenier 2018-08-07
Like I mentioned before, they want the government to censor and limit your first amendment rights, they want to ban your weapons, they want to over regulate your personal life and business, and they want the government to control your income, ideas, and production to redistribute to the rest of the country (communism) plus, from personal experience at their HQ, they completely idolize Stalin.