write to your congressmen...

Does that really do anything?

Is the DNA testing you're talking about related to those ancestry tracing websites?

I really can't think of any reason I'd need to give out DNA info besides that

Ancestry.com, 23 & Me, Nat Geo DNA, etc.

Lol ezpz. Just say the fuckin names.

Voldemort

My former psychiatrist was into Pharmacogenetics (the use of genetic testing to help predict efficacy and/or side effects of medications) and wanted me to take a genetic test to determine which pharmaceutical drug(s) would be most effective for my 'treatment-resistant' depression. I declined, as something about it just didn't sit right with me.

I'm guessing the genetic information gathered from pharmacogenetic testing is similarly used/sold/placed into a big database somewhere..

Wouldn't that be under private medical history? I'm almost certain they already have your DNA if they wanted it

His psychologist? Naw lol

APA citation http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/confidentiality.aspx

Sure the psychiatrist would ask for a sample, but they wouldn’t keep it. They’re the proxy. The testing lab used would (not many providers have their own lab on campus) gather and have that data to study. The psychiatrist would just report effects on treatment to researchers. Per HIPAA and your source, it’d stay w/ the researchers (technically, unless you’re the Golden State Serial Killer. At which is another posi.).

Also, I think I misinterpreted your earlier comment tho & think we’re all kinda saying the same thing here

The only problem with a data base like this is private insurance with the ability to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions and a for profit healthcare industry.

Our increasing understanding of genetics is actually making us healthier, we just need to control corporate greed.

Single payer healthcare is what you should be pushing elected officials towards.

That's one problem, clearly not the only.

Would you expand on your statement?

Getting framed for murder. Becoming the only focus of an investigation due to your DNA being there. Not getting hired for jobs. Or any of the other many potential avenues of abuse listed in this thread.

I could imagine my congressman thinking they must get in on this before it's too late.

Yea those stock prices are about to shoot up.

Do you know if we’re in the clear if we’ve never personally used the service, but family members have? I’m just thinking that they wouldn’t even need your DNA to even come up with a decent profile on you. They could get that from relatives’ DNA

I don't want to name the companies directly but we all know who they are.

You linked an article called "23andMe is getting lots of money from big pharma" in your OP.

I think the government wants our DNA anyway so they're not really gonna care about letters against it.

Does that really do anything?

Only got one response from my three over whether or not they thought Trump had the right to pardon himself. The response was bullshit but at least some staffer made an effort.

Lol that's what I'm saying. We can message them but they probably have some intern or staff member write some canned response

My parents both did the testing. Which means that although they don’t have my DNA, the information showing that I am a descendant isn’t that difficult, and I would be a partial match to their DNA.

So even though I didn’t participate, I’m still affected.

Would this be true is a sibling submitted DNA?

I would assume a partial match as well, though I don’t know how much

Your sibling shares just as much DNA with you as your parents.

Lol yeah, my congressmen who are vehemently against single payer healthcare and therefore definitely on the payroll of insurance companies

I keep telling people. If your congressman is already against what you believe in, writing to him is only going to tell him that he needs to step his game up (agaisnt you).

It's a free survey. Don't do it.

VOTE

As if voting is any better lmao. Voting gives the masses the illusion of control and you have fallen for the trick. It's a way to feel like you're doing your part but the game is rigged so all the candidates are supporting the same powers that be. This is conspiracy 101. Don't vote it's a complete waste of time and energy and gives false hope. Become an anarchist and live outside the shitty lines drawn by government and elites.

If you don't vote, then it just makes it easier to rig the elections. Of course the numbers will be fudged a bit, but if we have a large voter turnout, fudging those nubmers would leave a footprint that's visible.

The real conspiracy is that tptb are discouraging voters to not vote.

You're way off. The system is broken beyond repair and all your energy and drive is being wasted when you vote because you convinced yourself you're making a difference by doing so.

Now I'm getting suspicious that you're one of them.

You don't get it.

Alright, /u/enlightenedtr0ll. Either you're completely brainwashed by tptb or you're one of them.

Other way around buddy. Voting is the slaves suggestion box

You're completely delusional. Please take a break from the internet.

Belief in voting as an effective means of bringing power to the people is what got us here in the first place. Rise above beliefs ingrained from the government.

You're a terrible troll, you know that?

Personal attacks are irrelevant this is about something bigger

So Mr. smarty-pants. What's the alternative to voting?

Lol deleting the personal attacks. Live outside the laws and boundaries set by govt. Be a local leader against it all. Turn other people onto the same ideology. Dedicate a large portion of you life to spreading the message. At a certain point go to jail if it helps get the message out. Eventually we will overcome the oppression.

LOL he reported me. I guess he really is one of them.

I did no such thing. You have it all backwards

It sucks, but our representative governance is based on communication between constituents and their representatives. The real problem is that writing or calling are the only routes available. People won’t even make a 90 second call to order food — something bottom wrung on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So of course our government has become so distorted for countless reasons, but one that does not get brought up too often is the issue of genuine back and forth communication.

Just getting this discussion started raises more foundation level questions. How should it be set up? Do we want candidates that have known positions, or would we prefer candidates like blank slates that just purely represent their constituents?

send money to your congressmen

FTFY

I sent a healthy "Fuck you, piece of shit" which did nothing but make me feel a little better.

This was after I sent an email about net neutrality and he replied with what basically boiled down to "You don't know what you're talking about and your opinion doesn't matter because $$$"

This could turn out to be pretty fucked. It would be great to know if I have a 40% higher chance than average of developing diabetes or something, but not so great if my insurance goes up because of it. Funny thing is I actually started writing a horror novel that included this exact idea years ago. This tells me I should finish it, it could be timely.

From a free market standpoint though... why shouldn't you have to pay more if you're that much more likely than the average population?

Just playing devils advocate here. I agree that it's a fucked up idea, but I also understand how insurance works.

Actually lifetime ledical insurance costs are lower the earlier you die. If you have heart disease or diabetes your insurance should be much lower than a healthy person who is more likely to get a long term medical condition that will require many years of treatment costs.

Great point, that is very true. It's why I never understood why people who smoke have to pay more for health insurance. Statistically speaking, they die younger, and from shorter term illnesses that kill rather quickly.

Health insurance coverage and pricing strategies will be changing quite rapidly in the near future, mainly thanks to things like technology, the internet, cryptocurrencies,

Same goes for car insurance as well.

They may die younger but the medical costs associated with cancer or increased risk of emphysema or blood clots can be huge, and if they survive then the medical costs continue. I'm sure the probability of surviving is factored into a calculation, and it's a pretty bleak calculation to make. Ultimately it's based the risk of how much they can cost the insurance company through treatments, and smokers are definitely more expensive.

Smoking might be one of those things that creates statistically long term care costs, whereas someone very overweight is more likely to just die of sudden heart failure.

These folks pay for a shorter time too.

Can you imagine the backlash that an insurance company would receive for reducing rates due to negative behavior?

I've studied to be an actuary. You already turn into a number based on statistics and probability. While I agree it seems fine to up insurance for personal decisions like smoking tons of cigarettes and buying a Ducati, and we currently don't charge extra for preexisting conditions, I dont believe anyone would deserve to pay more for something genetic that they have no control over.

Smoking cigarettes and buying a Ducati should earn you a discount!

But yea, I'd say genetic predisposition to something should fall under "preexisting conditions", should it not?

I agree, depends on whether we have laws at the time to protect it and there could be an argument. I think the data itself from a scientific standpoint is fantastic, and the problem with it boils down to holding our government accountable for taking care of our healthcare problems, which is already sort of a nightmare.

They don't have to cover Pre existing conditions anymore.

Do you think they should?

Of course I do. But thanks to Dumpy they don't have to.

Why should they?

Why shouldn't they?

Haha I asked you first!

You answer my question, and then I will gladly give you my answer.

You're maturity level is astounding. Have a good day.

...seriously??? That's what you're going to use as your excuse to not have to answer? LOL

Wow, HOW MATURE OF YOU 😂😂😂

Unsurprisingly, yet another anti-capitalist (likely socialist) can't rationally back up their ideas. How typical!

I would add this may also open the door to judgement for things like a genetic predisposition to certain behaviors, like alcoholism, depression. This information should at least be HIPAA secure.

Oh no doubt. That's why I'd never in a million years voluntarily agree to them getting my DNA profile.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck youuuuu

this is what i thought, until a fucking family member did the ancestory shit

From a free market standpoint

Who fucking cares about the free market? And where is this free market that you are defending? Because there’s no free market in the United States.

because money is a construct of an idea.

Not based in any sort of physical goods and commodities value or market capitalization as a whole.

It is just Printed.

Another far more realistic scenario:

You apply for a job. Your dream job. A job for which you are eminently qualified. You notice the question on the application "are you aware of any genetic issues or disorders that would disqualify you from employment?" It's a standard question on job apps these days, but fortunately you are ignorant and can check the "no/don't know" box.

As part of the background check, you sign a bunch of forms, not noticing that you've given the company permission to access your DNA information from the national database. The results come back: you carry genes for alcoholism, anti-social tendencies, and type II diabetes. Your employment is denied.

"Oh well," you say as you begin filling out another job application... until you get to that question "are you aware of any genetic issues or disorders that would disqualify you from employment?" F.

Gattaca future incoming.

I just love how Ethan Hawke gives them the biggest Fuck You in the history of the company.

I always wondered if he launched on his mission, then died of a heart attack or some other condition that the space agency was using genetic filtering to try to avoid.

I love how the doctor gives a big fuck you to everyone.

I was gonna point this. Great movie imho.

Yep, just don't let an eyelash fall off.

Sounds like a black mirror episode...

Or GATTICA

GATTACA

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Uhh or a movie called Gattaca? Get out of here

AHHHH MAKE YOUR OWN BUSINESS AGGHHH

Cant tell if trolling but thats what i thought. "Sounds like in the future it will be easier to hire"

Consumers will get a better service. A generation will have to live off UBI and be artists and only have one big screen tv or whatever. The next generation wo t have the alcoholic hene unless the gene is giving them some other advantage worth having

At this point I have very little faith that there will ever be UBI in any shape or form. I think they are just entering that a few hundred million will soon die naturally due to climate change.

a few hundred million will soon die naturally due to climate change.

Lol.. There's a good conspiracy

Mate... Europe is facing a huge spike in the price of food. I've just gotten back from my family's farm in Eastern Poland and the crops were 40% worse, fruits are tiny and shrivelled. I've seen the same symptoms in the UK. And it's just the start...

I don't think people appreciate just how easy it is to collapse any society.

Dont give me shit about Europe being in bad shape because of global warming...

theres 3 main reasons europe is shit right now..

1. Immigration lets anyone from anywhere go wherever the fuck they want.

--Example: It sucks in our country, lets go somewhere that doesn't suck. (3 years later): Paris is a shanty town... Wow, fucking beautiful... Sweden is now the rape capital of the western world... Nice..

1. Socialism

--Example: This is similar to the immigration issue in that, the poor people just go and try to take shit from the people who have. Greece knows what im talking about.

1. Overpopulation.. The whole worlds issue, really.. I actually dont think this is such a big issue if people would spread out more instead of clusterfucking on shores of the certain places that are already overpopulated.

You're stupid.

Lol.. Right..

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jan/05/life-shanty-town-paris-abandoned-railway-petite-ceinture

Soshulisem dont hav enuf electrolits. Dat y da froots be all shrivuled, n shit.

Lol.. you're dumb as a motherfucker huh?

Yes, it's the immigrants causing farming and crop issues.

Ummmm... Yeah?.. It's all related lol.. The fact that you don't get that means you're part of the problem.

So there was carbon worse than this in the atmosphere back when dinosaurs we're around.. I guess dinosaurs must have had really shitty cars huh?..

Help me understand why you think it's a conspiracy. Do you think that the globe is not in fact heating up? Do you think that the record breaking temperatures in many countries this summer are a mere coincidence? That the drought is not a reality in many countries? That the fires in Europe were not happening? 30℃ far in the northern Finland, beyond the arctic circle is normal?

Because of how old I am, and how I see "climate change" formerly known as "global warming" being used in schools, media, and government, to change things in favor of a certain political party..

Ive seen this shit happen for a lot of years and I remember them telling us shit in school that was so fucking dumb. I remember them telling us that in 10 years, the earth was going to be completely out of oil and we wouldnt be able to use fossil fuels anymore... Soooo That was like 1998 - 1999... Huh... Here we are.. 20 years later.. Weird huh? Not saying we havent contributed anything.. Do not get me wrong, Im not saying we are completely blameless and theres nothing we're doing that impacts the environment.. But idiots like Al Gore and Obama just advertise shit like this for political points for their party. And once everyone believes it, they get all the young kids believing it too.. Then, you're paying taxes on it, and theyve got you literally arguing against your own livelyhood that you * should be* paying more higher taxes on everything from cars, food, water, land.. EVERYTHING.. They convince you that if you want to use the environment, that's fine, but you're going to need to pay a tax. Give the government money, and we'll allow you to use what you want... That way the government controls how much water you're allowed, how much food you can eat, how much space you can take up, what you can buy, things you can use for any reason at all...

Now I'm 100% for regulations against shit like dumping chemicals just in to streams and turning rivers in to sewage. I hate that. But they're trying to take it too far, and that is my major point.

Yeah that super volcano's gonna blow any day now.

We can't even have universal basic health care, much less free money.

The culling has already begun. The herd has gotten too big to be sustainable, so a sizeable percentage of the weaker population need to be killed off.

The young and strong - they get to work in the prison slave industry.

The next generation wo t have the alcoholic hene unless the gene is giving them some other advantage worth having

Except that the unemployable are given UBI and produce offspring at rates greatly exceeding their overworked but employed counterparts.

I meant genetic modification

idiocracy

They link social media behavior to DNA profiles. Pretty soon we will all be classified into microsegments and each segment will have its own sites to visit.

You depressed the fuck out of me. Oh well at least you don't have to try hard in life since it won't get you anywhere anyways./s

Eugenics. What they always wanted!

Jesus the liberal dream.

There are laws against this very thing in some states but there is not a complete ban on it. http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/genetic-employment-laws.aspx

The GINA act of 2008 makes this illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act

We all know laws don't last very long. If someone wants it gone, it's gone.

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So adorned politician can overturn it

The GINA act of 2008 makes this illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act

"You're just not a good culture fit for the team we're trying to build."

..but if it isn't based in science why will they do it ? It will not give the desired result

Um....no. The American with disabilities act prevents employers from pulling bs like this. If anything, they have to accommodate you lmao

Sounds like you should be a movie writer...

So true

I got another scenario. You live in Saudi Arabia, or any other totalitarian government. And the government forces everyone in the country to take a dna test. They arrest anyone with Jewish heritage, with genes connected to homosexuality, or any other bullshit arbitrary reason. They use this information to politically oppress large swathes of the population.

You think you're safe but you're not until you convince every single one of your relatives not to take one of these.

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Underrated comment. This is being used right now. They take DNA and search databases for a family match, then work through the family and see who might have been in the area at the time of the crime and so on. Forensic genetics.

I know LATE response, but that's basically how they caught the East Area Rapist

My sister told me she took one of these tests...shit.....

A lot of people who are adopted or born via surrogacy look for family this way.

You're describing the movie gattaca

It should be no secret that the police and prosecutors aren't philosophers. They don't seek for "truth". Their primary aim is to build a case. Well put, my friend.

This right here is why people don't take this sub seriously

That’s quite a hyperbolic hypothetical lol

That assumes due process is thrown out the window completely. Sure you’ll be suspect number 1, but semen dna in her cooch isn’t murder dna for the da.

Yeah, it seems like the part that puts you in jeopardy is the insanely bad luck of a woman being murdered right after you left he apartment The Night Of style. That doesn't look great, 23andme or not. Plus, if we're talking its applications for criminal justice, it seems really silly to dream up a scenario like that when this technology/database has already famously led to an actual serial rapist and murderer being arrested.

He got the conspiracy part right, just not why he should be worried about it lol.

Have we already forgotten about the Patriot Act?

Lol.. what?... Yeah so having genetic info is going to have negative impacts on crime scene investigation?...

"This guy she met at the bar and took home that night raped her and killed her, Frank. Case closed."

"Ok, but what about the busted in window and the broken lock? And the fact that our number one suspect isn't a gun owner? What about all that?"

"NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH... He raped her and killed her! Case closed!"

-When feminists take over the police force

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That’s how they caught the golden state killer . Ran his dna through an ancestory data base

This is conspiracy at it's finest.

Or use it for cloning you

The "normally" scenario is pretty unrealistic. The murder of the girl would be on the news, along with a police request for anyone with any information to come forward.

You do come forward because you're innocent and you realize that not coming forward makes you look guilty as hell (the police would assume that you raped her as well as killed her). The information you give helps the police track some of your movements after you left her home which backs up your statement and probably finds a witness for your location. This, along with the time of death, proves your innocence and you are not considered to be a suspect

No. Anyone who knows anything about law knows you don't talk to the police if you are or could be a suspect without a lawyer. They get tunnel vision so easy. And, it is so easy not to have a witness or alibi. People have awful memories and are often alone for periods of time. More than likely it would be a no win scenario. Come forward and they think you did it, but are trying to mislead them. Don't and they find out and they think you are hiding that you did it. Unless you have and airtight alibi and good evidence for it, lawyer up it that situation.

this is very true! It's been well documented and the reason why so many innocent people end up in prison.

If the case can be settled easy on a good narrative, they will pursue it.

Yes, and it isn't necessarily a conspiracy or that the police are bad people (anymore than the average person anyway). It's human nature and resource constraints. Humans look for explanations and patterns. When we can't understand why something happened or there is no reason, we have a hard time coping with that. Add on top of that that there are pressures to solve crimes quickly, not to waste time and resources, etc. I can see how it happens. It would be easy for most people to make hasty conclusions when a potential explanation comes along, rather than do due diligence.

Of course, no one is served by this, ultimately. Sure it "looks good" at the time. But an innocent person has their life ruined, the guilty party escapes and likely will never be caught, and it is expensive in terms of time and resources - all the time and resources that went into investigating, charging, and convicting the innocent party are wasted and, in many jurisdictions, compensation will be required, so that can be added to the bill. If people thought more long term, they might make more effort to be diligent.

Don't say shit to anyone but your attorney is good advice, I'd deduce.

Absolutely. If you speak to the police, even if you have good intentions and haven't done anything wrong, it is very easy to make a mistake and say something that can be twisted or that is inconsistent. At that point, you have, inadvertently, furnished evidence against you and your credibility. People think that as long as you have done nothing wrong nothing bad will come of talking to the police. This isn't true. Their interrogation tactics are designed in such a way as to produce many false confessions. I would never speak to the police if I suspected that I was under suspicion. I would immediately lawyer up, even though it would hurt me financially. Taking the financial hit how is much better than ending up going through a whole trial and maybe ending up with a criminal conviction. And I'm saying this about Canadian police. Multiply this by like a million for the American police - they are much worse.

Ok, you should come forward and speak to the police with a lawyer. It's one thing to not trust the police but it's another to be paranoid that they will try to pin the murder on you. Even if you think that it could make them suspect you, it is better than not coming forward, them finding you anyway (e.g. a neighbor who saw you there) and you being a far bigger suspect. There's even a chance that the case isn't solved and your DNA is flagged years later.

For witnesses / alibis; How do you travel from the girls place to your home? How many people do you pass on the way? How many CCTV cameras do you pass? Do you buy anything using credit cards? Do you use your mobile phone? Unless you drive to your empty home on your own, without using your phone or stopping to buy anything and you miss all CCTV and traffic cameras, there will be some evidence to show that you weren't at the girls home at the time of death.

It's not paranoia when it has happened historically. There are famous convictions where the police have pinned murders and other serious crimes on someone who was just an innocent party that knew or had a chance encounter with the victim. They became fixated on that person being guilty and, in so doing, made the evidence fit, forcing confessions, twisting their words, or even fabricating evidence. One wonders how many cases just didn't get the publicity or remain undiscovered.

In terms of witnesses, let me ask you this, suppose you are walking/driving home from your job. How much do you remember about the people you see on any particular day? Likely, not much unless anything remarkable happened or you always see the same person. Now, how much will you remember a day later, a week later, a month later, etc. about that particular day. Nothing. There will be no witnesses because even if someone saw you, they probably won't remember it.

You might encounter some CCTV and be filmed, but you might not. It depends on where you are. And, even if there is footage, companies and even the government may not retain the footage for a long period of time, so a clock would be ticking on that. As for making purchases, not everyone would stop to buy something on every trip they make, not everyone uses a credit card for each purchase either (actually, a larger proportion of people than you might think do not even own a credit card).

In any case, my point is that it would be up to you to conduct all this investigation if you decided to go to the police without a lawyer. If the police have decided that you are the guilty party, they will be very likely not to investigate to exonerate you as they will consider that to be a waste of resources - they have their man. And you, given that you are accused of murder, will be in jail, so you'll have to hire that attorney to investigate for you. Hope you have the $$$.

Sure, you don't remember the people who you pass on the street but you do recall people you interact with. Thinking about traveling back to your house, from her house, and you have the following possibilities:

Get an Uber: You have the driver as a witness and it is charged to your card.

Get a taxi: A witness and a receipt

Get a bus: They have CCTV installed, you'll have a receipt and the driver will hopefully remember you (plus any other passengers)

Get a train: A witness in whoever you buy a ticket from, the ticket inspector and other passengers, a train ticket and a receipt as proof of the journey, CCTV in the train station and on the train.

If you go to a shop then you'll have a witness in whoever is working there, CCTV footage of you in the shop, a receipt and possibly a credit card record of the purchase. If you use your phone then what record will the phone company have? Do they log an approximate location based on cell towers?

It's difficult to imagine the police just not looking for any proof of your alibi. If you believe that the police have bad motivations then they would investigate your alibi to try and find evidence that you were lying to them. Also, if the police decide to not investigate your statement, a defence lawyer should rip them apart for that and to do so would only need a single receipt/card statement/CCTV clip/witness to make the police look ridiculously incompetent in front of a jury. Couple that with there being zero actual evidence that you committed the crime and whatever evidence there is that someone else committed the crime...

Maybe my lack of a criminal record and having no bad experiences with the police makes me naive but, if it were me in this specific situation, I would go to the police and I'd be confident that they wouldn't try to pin the murder on me

Maybe, but I'm just thinking about the time I lived by myself for three years of university. Most of my nights after class would have had no alibi at all. My professors probably would have remembered me in class because it wasn't an undergrad program, so class sizes were small, but after that...

I walked to the bus stop. There was no CCTV on the streets of that city (well, one area because of some theft issues, but I didn't typically go there at night), so no camera. I got on the bus and would go straight home. Student life, so my disposable income was limited and my shopping trips (e.g. groceries) would typically be on the weekend when I could combine them efficiently with the bus schedule. My bus pass was the student ID and was merely glanced at - so, no record of it being used and I was just another student. Not all buses have CCTV and that bus line did not, so no record there either. Maybe someone would remember me on the bus, but then again probably not.

So, then I get to my stop, which is in a residential neighbourhood and there's no CCTV there either. Usually I wouldn't even see another person, but if I did they'd probably not remember me as I fit in with the neighborhood despite being a university student. I get to the house where I rent the apartment and the landlord is hardly ever home - always at work - so probably she doesn't see me either.

And I think you misunderstand. If you said - oh, I was at ________ store, not murdering that person - the police would probably check that - that is specific enough they'd follow up. But if you said, oh, I was walking home and someone must have seen me, they probably wouldn't canvass for witnesses. They'd probably say - well, who saw you? And you probably wouldn't know unless you happened to run into someone you knew.

As for court, police receive the benefit of the doubt from juries. They are presumed to be credible and skilled. As an accused, you are presumed guilty, not legally, but by them as people. There is bias there. Not to say that they can't spot a shoddy investigation or a person arrested by mistake, but the bias is against it. Wrongful convictions happen all the time. And, more commonly, people are forced to simply plead to charges because they are wrongfully arrested based on shit like this - how long do you think you'd last in jail without income? You don't get bail for murder. Not long I'd wager.

You aren't naïve for those reasons. I also don't have a criminal record or particularly negative experiences with police. The difference in my case is that I have read about these cases, I know how far they can go within the law (and outside the law but within the tolerance of the courts), and I also have a retired police officer as a relative. I know.

Also, I am in the UK and I'm not aware of any murder convictions which have later been shown to be stitch up jobs by the police. They probably do happen though. The point about people in the US taking plea deals even though they are innocent is a good one. That part of the justice system sucks, as do prosecutors who only care about getting convictions

In the example, the police would trace the girls movements for the previous day and they would find out that she left the bar with a random guy pretty quickly. After that, they will probably find you pretty quickly. That's the biggest reason why you should voluntarily speak to them, with a lawyer present.

More generically, I was thinking that if you can prove any of your story then I didn't think that the police would try to pin it on you. E.g. If her time of death was 10am. You left her place at 9am, walked home in ~60 minutes but stopped at a shop after ~30 minutes. There is a witness in the shop that you stopped at, at 9.30am. The police could try to say that you went back to the girl's home after the shop and you can't prove that you didn't. I don't think that the police would really try to pin the murder on you. If they did, I can't see how they would be successful. While you can't prove 100% that you didn't do it, they can't prove that you went back to her home either and they won't have a motive for why you would do it (apart from them just outright making theories up).

If there was no evidence to support your statement about what you did after leaving her place then I guess they may go after you but there needs to be no evidence that anyone else was there and no-one else had motive. I still think that they will check to find a jealous ex boyfriend (or even current boyfriend!), or someone already in her life who has motive, and that they would find a better suspect

There probably are some...or they just haven't come to light. There have been some awful cases in the US and Canada. I'm Canadian, so I'll cite the Canadian ones:

Steven Truscott is perhaps the most famous. In 1959, he was sentenced to hang (fortunately that was never carried out) at 14 because he gave a girl a ride home on a bicycle. The police never looked at anyone else and never investigated the man he described seeing or the car he witnessed the girl getting into. He was exonerated decades later in 2007.

Another very famous case is David Milgaard. He was accused of murdering a young woman in 1969 and convicted based on the testimony of three men - one who admitted he cared mostly for the reward and two who told inconsistent stories. The police didn't follow up on a tip in 1980 that indicated someone else had likely committed the crime and the government fought his attempts to seek review of his case for years, including declining to hold a new trial despite the recommendation of the Supreme Court of Canada. In 1997 DNA was tested and it was found not to match, exonerating him. The person from the tip in 1980 was arrested and convicted for the murder in 1999 and the government finally had to admit culpability and provide compensation.

James Driskell was convicted in 1991 for shooting and killing his friend on the basis of hairs found at the scene. The RCMP and prosecution misled the court as to the reliability of the evidence and didn't follow disclosure obligations to the defence. When the hairs were actually tested (more than a decade later) it was found that none of them actually belonged to him. He received a new trial, which was ended short of a full acquittal, in 2005.

In 1987, Anthony Hanemaayer was charged with assaulting a 15 year old girl at knifepoint and pleaded guilty on the advice of his lawyer who warned him he would otherwise receive a long prison sentence. He did two years less a day. Later, Paul Bernado (Canada's most notorious rapist and serial killer) confessed to the crime. Hanemaayer applied to the court for an acquittal and received it in 2008.

Simon Marhsall was convicted in 1997 for a series of sexual assaults, which he confessed to the police when questioned. He was imprisoned until 2004 when DNA evidence cleared him. Marshall was mentally handicapped, calling into question his confession, and at the time of the investigation the police didn't bother to test the physical evidence.

There are many other cases. The common threads are a refusal to test evidence and properly investigate, lack of compliance with disclosure, misleading the court, a refusal to admit that one is wrong, forcing people into shitty plea deals because of their circumstances, etc. I actually know a retired police officer who still insists that some of the people cleared by DNA evidence and new trials are guilty. That's how bad the tunnel vision can be.

I know we're taught to trust the police and generally you absolutely can. But when their suspicion turns against you, they aren't there to protect you anymore. That's what your lawyer is for.

wtf? where did you even come up with this scenario? Aren't there like a near infinite number of more plausible scenarios than this. Wear a condom ffs. Don't deposit your DNA in random, one-night stands.

U are idot

Thats exactly what a database should be used for.

It should be used to solve crime. I don't quite get why you think that's a bad idea.

If your dna is on a corpse the police should investigate you.

This is how they caught the original Night Stalker. There was a match in DNA from one of these kits and it gave them the right lead.

Nice nice nice! Using this!

Better start making sure someone can always back up what you are doing at all times if you get one of these DNA tests.

No, you will be suspect number one regardless of DNA: people saw you go with her for the night.

Lol

Please finish it!

Check out the Michael Crichton book Next) it deals with ownership of one's genetics.

Check out the Michael Crichton book Next) it deals with ownership of one's genetics.

Checkout Next by Michael Crichton. It deals with ones ownership of their genetics.

Such a great book. I like State of Fear a bit better and I started typing a few more (Timeline, Micro, Airframe, Andromeda Strain) and I honestly can't decide the order.

Crichton is one of my fave authors. Great stuff.

Him and PKD are top 5 if not my outright favorite.

I’m currently reading this and I thought we were living it!!

Or check out The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks for the true account of why owner of your genetics is so important.

but shouldnt your insurance rate go up if youre a higher risk? It already does with auto insurance, home owners insurance (if you live in a flood plain) and life insurance.

I personally believe it should only be permissible to change it based on your actions, and would be unfair if it was based on things outside of your control.

But then what's "in your control"? In the flood plain example, you choose whether to buy a house there. If you have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, will they ask you to have monthly urine tests and forbid you having any alcohol at all? If it's depression will they ask you to take antidepressants before you show any symptoms?

This actually leads to a really interesting larger question about the future of insurance. From a purely technical standpoint, if insurance providers (home, auto, medical, life, whatever) had perfect and infinite information, we would all have unique and customized premium costs based on our anticipated needs. I don't love the idea of car insurance being tied to gps tracker info and an assessment of locations visited ("visits 3+ bars per month: +10%, drives on average 5 mph over the speed limit: +5%, works from home Tuesdays and Thursdays: -2%"), but that would arguably be more fair than the current system. 🎵Like a good neighbor, State Farm is watching you constantly...🎵

Just because it is a higher risk doesn't mean that these things will come to fruition, in this case. Just because I am predisposed to type 2 diabetes does not mean I will get it. Wait until I get it to raise my rates.

My current insurance is based on yearly biometrics: BMI, A1C, cholesterol, blood pressure, and tobacco use. The more of these that are in the healthy range, the cheaper my insurance is.

How do auto insurance companies get to charge a 16 year old male more than a 45 year old female even if he has never been in an accident?

Its all about risk. If you might get diabetes and I have no family history or other risk factors for diabetes, why should we pay the same for health insurance?

I know that the 16 year old male gets charged more based on the driving history of his peers, but it can also be looked at as high risk simply because of inexperience.

If neither one of us currently has diabetes, why shouldn't we pay the same for insurance? There is no guarantee I will get it, why should I be penalized?

There is no guarantee the 16 year old will get in an accident either. But its more likely than a 45 year old female that he will. If you have a family history of diabetes, it is more likely you will get it than someone without a history of diabetes.

Fortunately under current laws, especially but not limited to the ADA, your health insurance cannot rates cannot increase due to health or genetic conditions. If they did, people would be dying on our watch left & right for lack of coverage.

This is a much more likely scenario of how the data would be used. Along with other marketing strategies. If they know who to target for what, that’s money for them. So, say you advertise a high interest credit card towards impulsive groups? Or alcohol towards alcoholics? A lot can be known about a person from their ancestry and DNA.

This seems like a short term strategy that will certainly lead to catastrophe. Targeting alcoholics to spend their money will eventually mean they have no money to spend. Targeting impulsive individuals with high interest credit cards will eventually lead to them being unable to afford their payments at all and will be unable to spend more.

Im not saying your wrong. In fact, youre probably right. But businesses are so short sighted that they will engage in strategies for short term gain and long term pain instead of the other way around.

And we'll get to say we knew you back when you were just a redditor. :)

DNA Results should be categorized under HIPAA

I.. I thought they were.

Like I wanna say I remember reading a hipaa clause in the privacy policy on my kit

they definitely are. the databases being sold don't have names attached

O YEA, it was that.

They have to be linked to demographics and geographic areas, otherwise the data would be useless.

So you live in a town and are perfectly healthy? Too bad data now says that town has a high risk of X and now your premiums go up despite having no risk for X

They are. This entire thread is basically, "if employers or the government or anyone else breaks the law, we're screwed!" Yeah, that's why we have laws against these sort of things. This is why you vote.

Ah, still more an “if” than “have” situation then, I see. Still not all that comforting but at least my more than likely placebo laws are still in place.

How are they not?!?

This is plainly a HIPAA concern.

Where's the lawyers at?

Your DNA markers indicate a predisposition to procrastinating until it's too late and just playing more Xbox

Vegas can use big data, AI, and machine learning to predict near exact scores of sporting events that have a ton of random variables at play. Companies that have your personal data can put together predictive analytics that are absolutely terrifying, especially when you realize the data can be sold from company to company too

Vegas can use big data, AI, and machine learning to predict near exact scores of sporting events that have a ton of random variables at play. Companies that have your personal data can put together predictive analytics that are absolutely terrifying, especially when you realize the data can be sold from company to company too

I want to be in denial about this. Way to scare me to the core.

Practically, this may be the end of the concept of life insurance. For healthcare insurance your low life expectance score may result in a fair (as in lower than par) rate!

please send me a link when you are done/need a beta reader if you would!

Dude I just wrote the same novel. Itll be in stores in 4 weeks. Check it out!

I actually think overall it'll be good. Most of the developed world has socialized healthcare and advanced medicine involving genetics is likely going to be a huge industry involving extraordinary results.

Not just DNA, but consumption habits. Your Savings card with the local grocery store tracks your purchases, and can tell if you have risky sugar or caloric intake. Your Google searches can recognize repetitive searches regarding an array of symptoms which demonstrate your health condition. And Amazon can tell based on your purchases if you are likely to live a sedentary lifestyle, such as by buying too many video games or searching for waist 40 pants.

With the proper channels established, insurance companies could more accurately predict your health than your doctor. The flow of information just needs to be established. DNA may just be the cherry on top.

Here's the thing.

You are actually far better off knowing you have an increased chance of whatever because of your DNA.

Your DNA in most cases isn't necessarily your actual future. For things like diseases the majority of the time it's an increased likelihood but by knowing you can actively make changes to lower your risk factors. So much disease is lifestyle related or epigenetically triggered that while an insurance company may not want you your knowing means you could avoid it instead of blindly living your life increasing the chances every day

I’ll buy it

Writing a novel? Hmm. A beginning, middle and end?

They need to develop a DNA test that you can analyze in your own home, without sending it to a lab, that way, they absolutely won't have your data.

As much as I agree with you, and as much as I hate these DNA testing scams, there is one potential silver lining to all this.

Having a massive database of DNA, with corresponding surveys of things like family history, medicial issues, etc. could potentially be the key to learning more about DNA than we could ever possibly imagine with the current methods and techniques. Granted, that would mean relying on "altruistic" and honest researchers attempting to gain knowledge for the benefit of humanity (fat chance these days with how political/profit driven scientific community has become), but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

Cures for cancer, cures for everything really, more advanced CRISPR applications, etc. Hell, even unlocking the keys to understanding genetic memory!!!

While I'm with you about being completely against it and would never in a million years voluntarily submit my DNA to such a service, and agree that this data will undoubtedly be abused by insurance agencies and the like... the scientific potential is quite fascinating to think about.

I'm "wrong"? I literally just agreed with everything you said...

A random collection of DNA is not anywhere near as useful as a data set with corresponding questionnaires for things like family history and medial ailments. Names and addresses should 100% not be included, this is true, and it is a massive invasion of privacy. Doesn't make what I said any less true.

OP said "You're wrong" and then proceeded to repeat exactly what you said.

No, you are wrong. OP actually said "You're wrong" and then proceeded to repeat exactly what you said.

That's incorrect. OP's comment was quite similar to the comment he was responding to even though he prefaced it with "you're wrong"

Your silver lining is wrong. You agreed on everything else but he was fixing the logic from that statement.

It would make more sense to not be biased, especially in research, to have anonymous donors and at the most have their gender.

The kits literally have your DNA tied to most of your personal information which companies love to fiend off of.

You want to see the bright side, but it’s just denial of what is: corporations and state may as well be one and this is in all actuality one giant DNA dragnet.

I feel like you are so hung up on this part where they link your DNA to an address, but if you move then this is completely invalidated right? It's not an invasion of privacy if you literally send it to them and agree to their terms of service where this is clearly spelled out...

Are people stupid for using this? Of course. Is it a conspiracy in any way? No not really...

No u

The scientific and medical advancements that were learned from Nazi human experimentation was so valuable that we let some of the most evil people to walk the earth go free if they turned over the data to us.

Same with the Japanese, unit 731... Operation Paperclip.

No, the results from Nazi experiments produced largely useless data.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7px4r2/did_the_nazi_experiments_actually_give_them_any

Actually, yeah, in several areas, primarily in the subjects of hypothermia and rewarming and experiments with phosgene. But thats just some of it.

Germany was the most advanced country in the world when it came to medicine and science. In fact, doctors and scientists would typically learn German if they wanted to be the best in their fields, (the most advanced textbooks were written in German) as well as study in German universities. So the most advanced country in the world was able to experiment without ethical/moral constraints...but tainted with racism and Nazi ideology. Yes, much of the experiments were flawed due to poor controls and racial bias, but some of the research was useful especially on how to deal with cold weather combat conditions -- so much so that the NATO book on the topic is largely unchanged from what the Germans wrote then, in some small part based on the torture they perpetrated. Some torture-research on high altitude simulation and pressurization may have sped up German development of G-suits and pressurized high altitude heated flying suits, an area where the Germans had a lead. They also contributed to various war inflicted injury treatment methods which are used in modern medicine by trauma surgeons. You think the Americans and Russians just threw that data away?

This is the tip of the iceberg. Much tainted knowledge has been downplayed and suppressed to lessen the ethical implications and much of it was destroyed at the end of the war. Impact data used by Volvo to design seatbelts and cars, drug experiments by Bayer, German medical scientists identified the connection between cigarette smoking and lung cancer,...go look up what a colposcopy is, who developed it and his history. Go look up how many Nazi scientists were given "parole" if they worked for the US military after the war. Think all that research was just forgotten or not used? Directly, indirectly, unethical Nazi human experimentation advanced science in some ways, although German science was much better without it. To think otherwise is wishful thinking and revisionist.

I did submit a DNA sample with Ancestry.com but have not heard about any data sharing or susceptible risk with Ancestry.com. Any difference between them and 23andMe?

What do you think, honestly? If a company can make money selling something legally, they're going to do it.

Sorry, your data is in the system and it won't go anywhere unless legislation is passed that empowers customers to demand data of such kind be deleted which is very unlikely. If Ancestry.com doesn't do anything funny with it those who buy their database should they eventually go bankrupt might.

I did delete my info from the site -- requested and confirmed the deletion of my data. What are the odds they actually do so?

Depends on how specific you were when asking. It might very well be that they retained your biological sample in the fridge since that's not technically "data" or "personal information". Whether they keep a black book with your name in it isn't likely, I admit. Way too much risk in that.

Perhaps they did in fact follow your request in good faith since you are one of the very, very few to actually ask for deletion. To them it might not be worth it to act like assholes at this point in time.

IIRC the European privacy law, GDPR, specifies that DNA samples are special information and are subject to stricter rules than normal information. If they get caught with DNA information they should've deleted they'll be in trouble, at least when it's about an european customer.

Less than 1%. No tech company ever truly deletes your data. It's also likely kept on several redundant servers, so even if the public data (your account info and such) is marked "deleted" it's still there.

With the number of people taking these tests though, it's bound cause issues as companies could use your relatives data instead of your own to get a "close enough" estimate for various genetic issues/benefits. Our only real hope is that people realize and protest.

Source?

Facebook doesn't delete data - I see no reason why 23AndMe, Ancestory.com, or other DNA testing labs would.

Although it sounds like they might actually "delete" it if you ask, but I kind of doubt they really do. DNA data is probably the most valuable data that any company can get from us. Maybe GPS/location data, facial recognition (Facebook's treasure trove of photos, Google Photos allowing unlimited HD uploads, etc come to kind), and maybe just meta data in general come close.

Which means if the current "who cares about regulations, gut them all" political climate continues, this idea of DNA being used against us becomes more and more likely.

>He thinks he can delet his data

Sure is great that a company you paid would ALWAYS warn you when your private details have been given away. You probably didn't even hear about the Exactis breach. Makes Equifax look like a joke.

They will likely be bought out and then that info compiled and sold.

LOL

Lol

lol

waiting for my clone to come so i can fight him and probably die

But if you die, your clone is still you no?

Better him than me

imagine if someone comes on the scene wanting to start a utopia and has the whole world behind him. he creates a perfect clone of you with no flaws and shows you what you could be if you take his mark and join with him. if you refuse your clone kills you and takes your place in the kingdom

That’s the movie World’s End

ah i remember. also the westworld series and quite possibly our future reality

But if you win, you get your clones power!

you cant! hes superior to you in every way. also the man who is coming into power in this scenario is an antichrist figure

Fuck yeah sign me up. I am team Satan.

even people on “team jesus” would fall for the temptation if they werent ever truly on the team

Full disclosure. I am antichrist.

Double depression!

What’s going to happen is they’re going to introduce teleportation technology (incinerators) and your clone will emerge from the other end.

that too

He’s a lil baby tho, I think you could take him.

Gattaca anyone?

was looking for this comment, it seems like every future dystopia movie is becoming more and more likely to be our actual reality.

ALL THE DYSTOPIAS

Waiting patiently for TNG's mid 2020s climate refugee internment camps

Gattaca would be the most optimistic outcome to a situation like this.

A bit of MINORITY REPORT in there as well. Cut down on murders by arresting anyone who shares genes with a sociopath/psychopath. Seems like nothing could go wrong there...

Pretty horrifying.

When talking about eugenics the key word should always be prevent, not cure.

Gattaca 100% this is what is happening it's insane

If you didn't take one of these tests, good for you.

Depends...if all your relatives decided to do it.....bad for you

yeah all they have to do is look for relatives to show familial medical conditions. its completely out of our hands.

Well I’m fucked.

Wouldn't they have to match their dna to yours first?

Sure but if they’re your biological family, no lol

How would they know your DNA if they've never tested it?

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They won't, but that's not the point. Some diseases are genetic. If your mother/father/brother/sister takes one of those tests they'll have the blood of your relative. If that blood contains markers for any genetic diseases/disorders, it can be reasonably assumed that you carry them as well.

My point is how would they even know your related to said person? By your name? Good luck specifically finding any connection to my parents with my super common name.

Birth records that are publicly available pretty much everywhere?

Idk if it's public information or not. In either case how would they find my birth certificate?

Finding everything about one person is not an easy thing to do with just a name. I suppose it's be easier if they had your name, address, and work address. But still I've never once given a company I worked for or insurance company or any company my birth certificate. So they'd have to find out where I was born. In order to find out who birthed me. Now probably could be done. But not easily. And nearly efficient enough for a company to potentially deny you. It'd cost them an unnecessary amount that's not worth spending.

Even your social security number doesn't have that information attached to it. It's only a tax id number.

Birth records are publicly available. That's literally what the guy above you said.

Look like a fucking question to me. Or why even add "?" Either way contribute to discussion or fuck off.

Uhm. Definitely sarcasm there(for a lack of a better word), my friend. It probably would have been more clear if they had put a space between the question mark and last word, but that was practically dripping with a questioning but still challenging tone.

Also chill bruh, we’re definitely all contributing here.

If it was sarcasm I missed it. Dude definitely didn't add anything to the conversation though.

I am definitely chill.

Ok tru but I think it was more so them trying to point out something you might not be thinking of

And I'm ok with that. I'm not ok with "literally what he said". No point to it. I missed the sarcasm my bad don't berate me over it. Not you, just in general.

You asked a question. You're question was how they'd find your birth records. I answered your question. My answer was that birth records are public, so it's real easy to find yours, as yours are public as well.

Finding a birth certificate with just a name that matches mine and proving it's me are2 different things. Sure you could pull up all 800,000 people born on my birthday. But good luck sifting through that in a timely manner. Especially if it isn't online yet.

I feel like you're underestimating how far reaching all this stuff is. Go one something like beenverified.com I put in my full name and found myself in seconds. I didn't even click into the report, but right there on the search page it listed my father, step-mother, and sister in law as relatives. I've seen other ones that had all of my blood relatives listed as well as addresses that I lived at but don't remember unless I see the street name. If you think for one goddamn second people with more time, power, and money don't have access to this information and are incapable of putting the pieces together you're fucking delusional.

Your a twat first off. Now do this on people who you don't know. Who can't verify because you know. Do I think they can't? No. That's not what I'm saying at all. My entire point isn't that they can't find your information. It's that they won't go through all the extra effort and money to try and mass deny people based on possible illnesses. They In the business of selling you shit to make make. Of they deny everyone who might have diabetes how will they make their money? They are better off accepting your possible illness and Jack your rates. Like they do with drinkers and tobacco users.

It's not about thinking they can't find relate me to someone else. It's about the cost of extra work to tell people no when they can just say yes but it'll cost extra. And then you'll happily accept it.

You're*

Solid reply.

It’s a lot more easier than you think it is

To find a connection of blood relatives based off your name, address, and likely work address?

They can certainly find a bunch of information on you if they searched enough. But to find blood relatives based off that is going to be difficult especially if your older. Impossible? No. But definitely more money and effort than they'd be willing to spend just to deny you insurance.

uhm

This isn't anything except advertisement. This isn't going to find your parents based off your name and address.

Unless you live with your parents.

Have you even looked yourself up? Or others?

Source: did it years ago and they give my immediate family’s, my aunts/uncles, and grandparents’ names & current and previous addresses. I didn’t even have to pay for that info. You pay these services to just use a bot to go through already public records that you’re related or involved in. That’s why you pay for background checks. Their criminal record is already public, what you’re paying for is a condensed and most accurate record report

And also if it’s for the bottom line, what effort HASN’T been made for it? Think about it.

FB profiles is one possible data point.

Assuming that information is there and made public.

It is.

Mine is not.

Not from you, but what about your mom, your grandpa, your aunt, etc.

If I'm not on Facebook then it doesn't matter. If it allows a name there it's just a name.

But if someone in your family has this test done and they find a gene that is likely to cause a disease, it might be one that runs in the family. Then all they need to do is find the names of their family members. So your mom is likely to get dementia, they go through her facebook and find your name. Now they charge you more for insurance because you also have an increased chance of getting dementia. They never looked at your dna, and you aren't on facebook, but they can still put that information together.

Then I guess everyones insurance is going to be super high now. Thanks to social media and DNA test.

Well there are laws against discrimination based on dna, so its not that bad. But this is /r/conspiracy right?

There's also laws against discrimination but it still happens. And yes.

Ask them.

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Not necessarily. If they have records you were born to Parent A + B, and one of them or their offspring are on file -- they can determine you are more likely to carry Gene X, indicating they have Disorder Y. Etc Etc.

The more data they get the spookier it will get.

I have a feeling a good lawyer could win a case that family DNA is not a substitute for an individual's DNA

Yes but all insurance is asking for is probability of onset. If you’re at a high risk statistically speaking, you’re a liability. You’re declined. Since it’s a private industry, it’s completely legal to do what they want for their bottom line

Agreed. I guess I’m thinking of the next landmark case in which it’s determined if discrimination based on genetics is protected. It’s a weird, wild world out there

It really is.

The only case off the top of my head I imagine that may have a chance is: already insured individual gets sick/injured, but the insurance refuses coverage for care due to increased risk of adverse effects/events occurring by x/y/z (related to claimed illness/injury or not) with the required course of treatment.

I think as long as you’re already covered and the laws remain firm and in place, you’re “good,” plainly speaking.

Yep. Insurance companies are absolutely that gross.

Nice concept, horrible execution.

but if i put a no jews sign outside my thrift store i hear all about it just because i dont like being on the wrong end of clever haggling and theyre statistically more likely to do that

Can’t tell if a joke or actually disturbed, but: be a better merchant and up your game scrub

do you know how much one good lawyer costs? now imagine your opponent in court has an infinite number of them at their disposal, with no financial limit on how long they can afford to have the case sit in limbo. could you say the same? doubtful.

Needs to be included in discrimination laws. And DNA privacy rights because even housebound DNA gets out there.

I'm going to have to talk to my family and hope no one did this... I will make sure they know they can sell you data and use it against you like insurance...

I got a new sister out of it. So although I am mad at another one of my sisters that a private company has my DNA, it's kinda a wash for me.

Literally justtttt asked about this! They don’t need your specific DNA, just close family members. The things they’re looking for will apply to a family, not just an individual. For example: if diabetes runs in your family, by proxy if they know your sister is high risk, so are you.

Even if you're not on the list, you are included through exclusion. You will become suspect for being a member of the minority who are not listed.

Jokes on them I'm adopted!

Depends...if all your relatives decided to do it.....bad for you

This is my situation. My sister received a free one in the mail because of a very minor medical condition she has. The kit showed up and it said something like "Get Free DNA Family Results and Participate in finding a Cure for XYZ Malady". She figured why the hell not and did the fucking test. Later on, she told me about it and I was just like "Jesus fucking Christ why on Earth did you think that was a good idea?"

“The long game here is not to make money selling kits, although the kits are essential to get the base level data,” says Patrick Chung, a 23andMe board member and partner at the venture-capital firm NEA. “Once you have the data, [the company] does actually become the Google of personalized health care.” Genetic data on a massive scale is likely to be an extremely valuable commodity to pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and even governments. This is where the real growth potential is.

They even admit it. Read the TOS you're also giving them the rights to profit off of your DNA via research. They get paid for the sample and would own at least a part of any discoveries made using it while you get nothing.

They gave out the testing kits for free around my neighborhood. They put them in our mailboxes with a letter saying what its for.

Now that’s sketchy as fuck.

Lol very sketchy. Like here’s a test and how to use it, ya know just cause...

This is like a black mirror episode smh

Who is "they" in your comment?

Whoever was walking around sticking the packet on the mailboxes. I don't think it was 23 but another with the spit tube.

There are a lot of companies and tests that use a spit tube. I was hoping you'd know which.

And where was this? I assume not the US, because unless it's USPS Mail, you can't put stuff in a mailbox.

Oh please. Morons drive around all the time putting stupid flyers and shit in people's mail boxes. Sure it's not legal but don't even try pretending like this isn't something that happens every single day in America, usually without any repercussions.

Day laborers putting "stupid flyers and shit" into a mailbox is one thing. A 1.5-billion dollar company is something else.

The OP replied that it wasn't actually in the box, so it's moot.

It was outside the mailbox, not inside it.

Well the CEO of 23andMe, Anne Wojcicki, is a member of a particular "tribe."

What do you mean by "tribe" in your statement? I assume you don't mean North American Native "Indian" tribe since her father's ancestry is Polish and her mother's Jewish.

The dude you replied to is referring to Jewish people, because the reason any Jewish person does something morally questionable it is because they're Jewish.

Scientology?

Jews

I'm gonna assume the kit was given away for free, but you'd have to pay for the test when you send it in. I Could be wrong, though.

Yea, you still had to pay to send it.

I remember posting about an event an NFL. Team was doing here you could get it done at their pre-game festival one week.

Think I remember this!

I can’t find a post about it since according to this article it was called off (in Baltimore.) they still do it in San Francisco.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/11/08/562564639/you-can-get-your-dna-tested-at-an-nfl-game-should-you

Tf

Where r u from, sir?

The corporation I work for just started offering the kits for free. Not a fuckin chance!

They did this lots of major cities , in little towns that were wealthy.

If something comes free that thing isn't the product, you are.

not here, maybe you are a special kind of neighborhood.

either high threat or impoverished...

No. Ok, just no. Holy hell, people, we need to call our senators asap.

Do you live in Palo Alto or something? Even weirder if you don’t

Thank you for sharing this article it provides some great insight.

It would be nice if these companies were more open about what it is their customers are getting into - like anything it could be used for good or bad, but the obscured transparency leans me more towards believing the latter. In reality they should be paying you for the opportunity to collect and disseminate your genetic information. Knowing your ancestral lineage and predisposition to certain ailments is just a bonus if it can be used against you ( to change insurance coverage / rates for instance ). As we progress technology so quickly it is more important than ever to consider the far reaching unintended consequences of using exciting new products and services.

I wouldn’t be surprised if DNA samples become the new requirement to get insurance. My Brother in Law had to be drug tested for his insurance, mainly to make sure he wasn’t smoking cigarettes still.

That’s definitely how they worded it in both the laymen’s “privacy policy” and the detailed one. Obvi I didn’t read all of it but it was very intentional about using the sample for research and development.

Expecting companies to warn their cashcows about how they plan to abuse them. That's funny!

Well, legally speaking they can’t... not that I don’t think somehow someway money would clog that cog but.. yeah... they can’t, right? c_c

It would be nice if these companies were more open about what it is their customers are getting into

They are! It's optional to agree for them to share your data for research.

They’re going to use this info to create a relentless fucking experience.

All joking aside, this so incredibly fucked up.

I can't believe this is in r/conspiracy. Getting my degree in biology we all had to take a bioethics class and companies doing genetic tests for profit was always a big point of discussion. Who we thought should be allowed access to this data and how insurance companies could potentially abuse this data were the biggest parts of the discussion.

It really sucks to see that the industry might be heading in the wrong direction because I've always been curious about my own DNA personally.

health insurance heading in the wrong direction? who would have though

To a joke that people actually need health insurance. A normal, routine, regular ol’ checkup at the docs should not cost what it does, it should be affordable. Without needing insurance. I blame the medical supplies companies as well. That alone jacks the price of routine care wayyy up.

Only in 'Murica do you need to deal with health insurance.

. I blame the medical supplies companies as well. That alone jacks the price of routine care wayyy up.

Yeah, definitely not our for-profit healthcare system.

you're right, its actually not our for profit healthcare. Its the pharma companies and medical supply companies, as OP said, who can charge whatever they want because "insurance" will pay for it. If it was a free market, prices of everything healthcare related would plummet.

That's not even true. Insurance companies don't just pay whatever the hospital bills them. They negotiate that price down to a fraction of the total bill. Now if you are the one that gets stuck with the bill instead of the insurance company it is still negotiable, but most people don't even know that.

/u/bleedingfromwherever is largely correct. There are for profit healthcare systems in other areas of the world that are substantially less expensive and high quality. We have regulatory capture enabling exploitation and limitations on governmental price negotiation. We've essentially made it really shitty for the average person who essentially forfeits a larger percentage of their salary for medical purposes in an era of new expenses, inflation, and wage stagnation. The reasons to have insurance is for absolute catastrophe (e.g. a no-fault accident and two weeks in the hospital), or frequent costly drugs for disease management (diabetes, autoimmune, cancer, etc.). If you break your leg and have to hit the E.R., you're still looking at a few grand out of pocket on the average mid-tier health insurance plan, or half as much if you settle with cash and avoid the insurance company.

Insurance companies don't just pay whatever the hospital bills them. They negotiate that price down to a fraction of the total bill.

This is why the free market works, the initial bill wouldn't be nearly as bad if the market was allowed to make corrections. Hospitals that don't lower their prices, will have to justify that, or face losing business.

They charge more, because insurance companies might pay it, not because they will pay it.

Without pharma companies lobbying for this, government would have to end the monopoly, and prices across the board would fall.

I don't know if our health care system really is "for profit". What if a laissez faire capitalist (aka for profit) situation eliminated the gov corruption and allowed people to choose low cost doctors?

Kinda like how we all have a thousand choices over what smartphone we buy or what box of cereal we grab at the grocery store.

Ultimately I trust the gov so little I'm just trying to find a way to justify the libertarian party.

What if a laissez faire capitalist (aka for profit) situation eliminated the gov corruption and allowed people to choose low cost doctors?

What if pigs could fly and I was the king of Egypt?

What would a laissez faire capitalist situation that actually eliminated corruption even look like?

A violent revolution?

I used cereal as an example but yeah, when the free market does its thing you get a million options in every price range.

I don't see why it has to be violent. I just think it's time to get a third party enough support to at least get into the national debates. I know Gary Johnson had a gaff, I don't think that means we have to choose between the dnc and the gop for the rest of eternity.

You must be American.

i know someone deep inside the health insurance industry and he put it to me this way: creating a single-payer healthcare system would give the government so much buying power that it would dramatically drop these sorts of prices. Right now, a typical insurance company has the buying power for, say, 2 million people. Well the single-payer system would have the buying power of 200 million, so costs of bulk items that are inflating prices will go down, like the distribution of pharmaceuticals, lab equipment costs etc. And the bonus is that private insurance companies can also sell their services in a more competitive market.

Yep, I've always thought the Affordable Care Act was ridiculously named. Instead of bringing down costs and actually making it affordable, they get everyone on insurance that "covers" the exorbitant costs.

It's not the supplies that are expensive. They normal prices, low even if bought in bulk. The issue is all the over head associated with the supplies at the hospital. Look at it this way: think about a box of nitrile gloves. They cost about $8 per a box of 100 gloves or 50 pairs. Out of that box of 50 pairs, only 40 will be used. This Jack's up the price per pair a little bit. Ok, now some one has to order the gloves for that huge hospital. They also likely monitor the stock of the gloves and order other stuff as well. That person gets paid some sort of salary so that increases the price. Someone else has to stock the boxes of gloves individually though out the facility, that also increases the price for the end consumer (aka patient). Once you've added in the rates of all the people who contributed to getting those gloves onto the hand of the medical professional and then into the incinerators later, that $8 box of gloves becomes a $100 box of gloves, no joke. I don't work at a hospital, but something similar where what should be cheap supplies become very expensive just by virtue of the fact that we have a person ordering them, another person approving the order, a this person actually planning the order with a vender and a fourth person verifying the order was received and a fifth person dispatching the funds.

I've never heard the supply-chain explanation for medical costs before, so that's interesting. How much does the 'chain of custody' of 'hospital grade products' affect prices? For example, I can go to the supermarket and spend $1.00 on 30 generic acetaminophen, while they might have to spend $20 on a box of 30 BEFORE other supply-chain costs (fake numbers, but hopefully you get my point).

Who do you think funds the your “Bioethics” class? Look deeper.

Myself with my tuition paid for that class? This sort of stuff has been heavily debated by scholars since DNA was discovered. Its really nothing new within the field of biology.

Whether or not the corporations are considering the implications is a different story though.

Myself with my tuition paid for that class?

well fudge!

yeah i learned about this in grade 11 bio lol

we’re all doomed.

lol

Just did a 23&Me kit last month and the wording throughout was super reassuring they wouldn’t sell the information to third parties. Just research. How is the IRB not destroying them rn?

I bet some kind of lawyer-speak that is only guaranteeing that they wont sell your identification information (name, SS, DOB, Etc.) attached to the DNA information. So they sell just the DNA information after it is stripped of its personal info, those who buy it have no idea who the DNA info belongs to, other than the genetic information telling them its a white male, with blond hair etc. The article about someone taking a genetic test attached to your medical record (by your doctor) is another story altogether.

I can't believe this is in r/conspiracy. Getting my degree in biology we all had to take a bioethics class and companies doing genetic tests for profit was always a big point of discussion.

What exactly do you think a "conspiracy" is?

Sometimes we know when people are conspiring to do something. Often we suspect it. Never does that make it less of a conspiracy.

oh let's act surprised indeed

you heard of patriot act, yeah?

the government has access to whatever any company has. no court order required. just claim "domestic safety" and they can get into any database. legally.

is it really so hard to believe, data as important as this could get abused in any way, in 21. st century? where we know every single organization is corrupt down to the bones?

the blasphemy indeed

who is naive now?

Time to fuck up their data by sending them your dog's DNA.

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lmao Im doing this

Lol... you don't think they can't tell your dog's DNA from a human's?

I have access to an x-ray machine. I could put the sample in the xrays beam path, scrambled DNA would be interesting to look at

...do you know how DNA sequencing works?

I highly doubt most people in this chain do lol

What x-rays aren’t like in the old movies where they can make you dna do the jive. Damn, I wanted to become a super hero. Like Kim jong

Kim's his last name.

I was attempting to make a joke. I clearly failed

Might help to add some hyperbole or sarcasm.

I figured having access to an x-ray machine would at least imply that I had at least some medical knowledge, but then I realized that even TSA agents have access to them... I should have specified that it was a C arm

Or you could have jsut been an electrical engineer.

LOL well it's not that easy where I live. There's no colleges that offer those courses where I live, but, I've always had an interest

Go make a Wifi gun or something.

Saw that video, I'll stick with ubiquiti

[8]

Maybe some human dna from a random gas station toilet...

Now that would be an expensive joke.

Sounds like a great way to destroy your insurance: make yourself look like some random hobo by giving them random hobo DNA.

Hahaha

Somebody, somewhere, probably: "Hey, I resent that! I'm 21.3% Random Hobo."

Lol happy cake day

How thoughtful of you to remember. Thank you!

I am that somebody....

You claim fraud and hit the reset button.

Irony is you didn't cheat anything because you're still you and we're all living in Gattaca.

Well then tell them you actually used a hobos DNA to enact that very scenario.

Why not just elect one male and one female to take all the tests for us? THAT would really mess them up. Though... as someone that works with data, they probably would sniff this out within the first duplicate.

"Is this the same person over and over or is this a Alabamian family?"

"I was born to be a hobo, it's in my DNA"

I assume we'll be sending the rando blood samples along with random names/addresses plucked from a phone book.

BRB, gonna cotton swab a jellyfish.

This is the kind of dumb shit you are gonna find on reddit

Yeah, I’m pretty sure they can’t source

Yes, they can, that is a totally different issue, and in this same link confirmed that the results from 23andme were accurate:

Fortunately, 23andMe correctly identified the employees’ entirely Eurasian origins 

Maybe I misread the article, but i didn’t find where it stayed that 23andme accurately identified the dog dna?

And by the way, we’re discussing home testing kits

From what I understood, the point of the article was that company test were fake, as, it didn't matter what DNA was being sent, it always returned positive for some tribe, when the site tested them, they sent wrong ancestry results from the people, but on 23 and me, they sent the correct ancestry, showing that they did, in fact, make the DNA test

Your sentence contains eleven commas and zero periods

I wonder if he always types like that. I think I'll have a look at the whole comment history and report back.

i did it and i had to send another DNA sample beuacse mine was contaminated by some meat that must have been left in my teeth so i assume they can tell

That's what I thought.

Lol XD no one would ever suspect!

And then when they base your insurance rates on your dna, they'll see your dog dna and realize you only live 15 years and it's a pre existing conditions! Looool

Please film this!

Would enjoy an update on that. :)

Well money is tight so i dont think i can get one for a while.

😂😂😂

They'll just assume it came from the White House.

They know what a dogs DNA looks like. If you wanted to mess it up you would send unknown samples with spotless dna for everyone. In fact how a second market for that hasnt sprung up I dont know but it will.

holy shit, great point.

What did he say?

What was he saying? It got deleted :/

Do you happen to remember?

I doubt anyone has spotless DNA

We need to find that perfect specimen, the rest of us will appear to be his clone.

Its trivial to match it to the individual based on phenotype. Got a recessive mutation for blue eyes and myopia? But that doesn't look like your machine learned face... rejected

Where would you get spotless DNA samples and what even defines that

How much for 2oz of Tom Brady's spit?

What is spotless DNA?

Why stop there we can swab all kinds of mammals.

I used to test my catd for breeding screening. They don't appreciate the q tip inside cheeks.

Holyshit that's good stuff. Send them reptile DNA.

Wouldn't they just call you to say hi? Did you change your phone number George?

Fight the system

Or your dog's semen

Gattaca wasn't just a sc-fi futuristic fictional movie, it was a foreshadowing of our future.

So is West World

Just a reminder to anyone who has had a DR ordered DNA test... That shit is covered under HIPAA laws. You don't sign away your rights in those situations.. If we find that info is getting out we have actual lawsuits to file.

and even governments!

FYI it's voluntary. You have to consent to the research part.

Are you sure? It’s been a while since I actually read the TOS but I remember it being waived in there. They’ve updated a bunch of stuff after finally facing scrutiny since though so it very well could have changed on me.

Yep you have to consent to the research part at least as of a year ago or so. You can login and check the status of your consent (and change it if you want).

What happens if you use a false identity?

Is it not anonymous?

I'd be ok with it if it were heavily regulated to ensure anonymity. I think it could be a very valuable database

But you're not the one spinf the research.... you're donating a sample.

A sperm donor doesn't automatically get parental rights.

This article is incredibly fair on both perspectives, but still quells your paranoia. Did you even read the whole thing?

They’re not hiding the fact that compensation for participating in a very profitable, virtuous research study is far less than what is typically awarded for similarly potent information received like this in past studies. However, this is because (a) it’s hella non-invasive & easy for the participant at no cost of anything (except the kit obvi, but supplies need to be paid for and this isn’t govt funded), but time and saliva; (b) this is a new type of research being done, so we don’t know whether final results are even going to statistically significant/helpful during analysis; (c) and the big-picture goal is for the benefit of every individual to be able to learn information that may or may not encourage healthier, preventive behavior, while also identifying and discovering new things in disease research that we never have and could have never known before.

Yet, they also agree to a point that much of the actual individual results are more or less “unhelpful” to the average participant. This is because:

a) genes are complicated, easily & broadly influenced, and dynamic in expression. The test given with the kit is no longer technically accurate of your current, ACTUAL percentage of risk for “x.” So, it’s arguably inaccurate, hence the push back from healthcare professionals on this.

b) Regardless if the subject gets any accurate information, it isn’t likely to be fully or well understood by the participant. Scientists barely understand what they’re “reading” themselves sometimes. This can either cause undue stress to the participant (which they warn of).

c) Read point B above again, but in the context of insurance companies evaluating the report of individual results. Again, not accurate, and -duh- we’re all likely to get sick and die of SOMETHING. This is just an avenue to satisfy our self obsession by finding out WHAT (might). That’s also why there’s those dumb results of earwax composition. We’re all absolutely enamored with ANY information about ourselves or how it relates to us.

You’re not telling anyone (that has an idea), anything new. Just creating possible but unlikely scenarios in your head. Just like you would if you got your results and read that you’re 30% more likely than others to develop Alzheimer’s. Yeah, risk is there but again, not even likely lol

Another awesome counterpoint to this paranoia is that healthcare professionals suggest that this could end not having universal healthcare. Insurance companies have a deep love-hate relationship with these tests and results, as it can change healthcare all together, which they systemically depend on. In fact, they depend on you NOT knowing better. You end up costing them profits because you were able decrease the perceived coverage needed, due to (possibly) being healthier/less likely to cost them a lot to care for.

This leads me to the next huge point that our healthcare system is based on treatment and not prevention. Look up statistics on % of people in developed nations with illnesses they could have never gotten to start with, and how much it costs society. Just look at the price of obesity on America. Think about the astronomic numeric pricetag it has, and then think of the unsaid price (personal and societal) of most of the population not being at optimal health, despite being in the most medically advanced nations. I won’t continue on that because if you’re not picking up what I’m putting down, you just don’t get it yet.

Save your self-obsession for your health. It’s also highly likely the government/companies don’t actually care that you’re 3% black and will probably die of heart disease (newsflash: most do). It’s not that deep lol

What is studied is just a snapshot of your genes at the time of spitting, compared to the answers you gave to the medical questionnaire, compared to the “snapshots” of others and their answers. Hopefully, a statistically significant pattern of factors related to Disease X would be identified, and “at risk” (remember, they may not be “as” at risk compared to when they spit) participants could find out about these newly found factors to further help them maintain their health.

Lol who actually gives some company their dna voluntarily? It's like using Facebook. That's the sheeple. They deserve it IMO.

"Calling and writing to your Congressmen" is about as useful as shoving red hot nails up your ass. It's pointless & only hurts you in the long run.

How does it hurt you in the long run?

it doesn't. he was feeling left out of the conversation and needed to "contribute"

It wastes time & keeps you busy while the oligarchs run the world. Vote harder!

Great post. My son's friends have all taken these tests and I've urged them to use caution. It's just signing yourself up for a lifetime of harassment from marketers at best and Minority Report style monitoring at worst. They can't do a lot with the DNA yet in terms of how much they can glean from the sample, but of course ID is an easy one. Commit a crime anywhere (or get framed for one) with DNA already on record.

Further - what if they identify a genetic sequence that makes people "rebellious" - oh well we found you in this database! I know there are so many promising use-cases for this stuff, but we gotta be careful in giving what little power we have left to corporations of gov'ts (which are increasingly the same damn thing).

Data like that is a resource to them that hasn't become all too valuable, yet but bears enormous potential. They hold on to it, storing it doesn't cost much. Once the first use case are being tried successfully all hell will break lose.

They can't do a lot with the DNA yet in terms of how much they can glean from the sample, but of course ID is an easy one.

As someone who has worked in a genetics lab... we can do a lot. And I was working on a species that doesn't even have its full genome mapped out yet like we've done for humans. I can only imagine the work being done behind closed doors in for profit companies handling all this data.

I should clarify that I mean 23-and-me et al can't do a lot yet. They're just not at a point with costs where they can do full meaningful analysis. Which is another reason to avoid those mail-in tests - they're just flat wrong in a lot of cases but that will of course get much better as automated procedures improve.

they're just flat wrong in a lot of cases but that will of course get much better as automated procedures improve

Next gen sequencing is already extremely cheap, quick, and efficient with the ability to sequence a person's entire for under $100 on the way within the next couple of years. Idk what setup 23&me has though. The biggest reason for inaccuracies is a lack of data. As more and more people send in their data the more clearer of a picture these companies can get on an epidemiological scale.

Historically it has been upper middle class white folk who have sent in samples. A few of the comments here are claiming that these companies have sent kits to entire neighborhoods in an effort to get them to use their service. If true, I'd wager the neighborhoods that had the kits sent to were places filled with minorities that they have little data on.

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I swear I read something not too long ago, that a serial killer in california was caught after x amount of years because someone in his family did some 23 and me shit and the DNA test results came back close enough to take the suspect to prison.

Yup! That would be the Golden State Killer. And it was his brother who took the test. The serial killer also used to be a cop.

I'm originally from visalia and all my life I heard how the "visalia ransacker" got away with murder and that poor COS professor would never get justice.

Wait, which professor? I never thought I'd see my hometown mentioned on Reddit of all places.

A journalist professor named claude snelling in 1975.

559 meet up.

The age old struggle between freedom and catching the bad guys.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

-Benjamin Franklin

That quote hits fuckin home

The Founding Fathers were geniuses man, GENIUSES.

Liberty - "the exercise of those rights which are considered to be outside the province of a government to control"

That's where it is though. Things change, governments change. The things that become the province of the government also change, as well they should. This is the reason we have government (in whichever form) and not anarchy. As society changes, so too does the role the government takes.

Find someone to pave your road when our 'establishment' burns down, basically.

well that's what the pizza companies are for ^/s

Lit AF

I just want the safety to have murders run free across the country.

I thought they were not allowed to release genetic data to law enforcement?

I thought they were not allowed to release genetic data to law enforcement?

It wasn't 23 & Me or another big name, it was a small local testing center that doesn't stipulate that.

They used GEDmatch, which is public. You agree to their terms when you use it.

There was another one in PA that solved a cold case with an ancestry test.

https://verifiedtasks.com/raymond-rowe-dj-freez-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/

Section 2.

That's.. actually good? People say it goes too far, and I kind of get it.. but how is 'the man' going to enslave us with our dna information? They could surreptitiously get it now, akin to digging through your trash. You spit or threw out that cigarette butt, same thing.

You actually don't have a right to your genome though, unfortunately. If something unique is found that is able to be used in your DNA, AFAIK, you are unable to patent it.

Point being though; they can do this now if they really want to. Which I'm pretty sure they don't. Yet.

Now they are selling to insurance companies who will wade through the data to eliminate high risk people from the insurance pool.

 

This is just the beginning. As we discover more and more about the inner workings of DNA, they will find more and more devious methods to exploit this data.

Any information to better explain the first quote? Is there a source?

You could just search for yourself

Not a quote exactly, but here's a story, or this one, or this one, and probably many, many more are out there. My mom has done this, but she's the only one in my immediate family.

I think I'll go get on to her for that.

They sell the date *anonymously* as in, not linked to your real life. For research purposes. That is one of the linked passages, the other about insurance companies. And it isn't like they are 'buying' the data off of the DNA collection agencies. They can request health data which that information is a part of. They can ask you if you have submitted a DNA test before and if you lie they can deny your plan. That certainly is a bit troubling, but not in the way you are depicting it. They are not *supposed* to use that information in deciding your coverage, but well know how hard that would be to prove.

The research stuff is probably fine, but the insurance stuff is where it gets scary. All I did was link to some of the first stuff I came across to provide a better picture. It's not that hard to research.

Right, but hard to find fact that this is happening. Accounts are great and all for starting and perpetuating a narrative, but not so much for completing it. Kind of keeps going, y'know?

they have also identified a few john and jane does this year with that information from familial dna.

Same thing just happened in PA, unsolved teacher murder /rape solved after 20 years due to the killers family member submitting a DNA test to a place like this.

They’re dead now, but we found out that my great grandmother cheated on my great grandfather when she lived away. So all of my like aunts and uncles on my grandfathers side make me related (sort of) to my great grandfather, but DNA wise, the tree just stops at my grandfather lol. It just leads to a bunch of random Germans that go all the way back to the Hessians. Kind of cool I guess. We also think we found someone else who cheated because there’s a lady who showed up as close family who lives on the states that looks identical to my aunt. #busted

Gattaca

Oh tanks for waaarnibg meeee. Sowwry I didn't wiissteen. U soo smaawt.

What kind of post title is that? Important issue, terrible, terrible title.

Couldn’t agree more!

Yes. The title is terribly obnoxious. Like, did you rrally believe you were the only one who thought that shit stinked since day 1 ? Here's a clue : he's not. I guess we still should have listened to his holy words.

XD

No one even disagreed with him at all in his original post, at most the only thing that wasn't basically agreement was someone posting that the government already collects DNA from every newborn and likely has a repository of this info already.

At best he is just thinking it's sketchy for a private company to do what their TOS describes that they will do, do I ethically agree with this not really but how is it a "conspiracy" in any way...

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I live in a country with universal health care, thus no need for insurance. This post doesn’t frighten me.

NoRegrets

Now they are selling to insurance companies who will wade through the data to eliminate high risk people from the insurance pool.

http://cbslocal.com/2018/01/18/taking-ancestry-test-makes-buying-life-insurance-harder/

This is highly misleading. The article only comments on the possibility of this happening in future, it doesn't say anything about them selling data to insurance companies today nor does it imply they are currently planning to do that.

I agree we should be vigilant against misuse of genetic data but your post is just not accurate OP.

I thought it was anonymized, too?

This post is highly misleading and purposefully overlooks the privacy steps that were taken.

I thought it was anonymized, too?

It is, you can even opt out. They send you a message asking if you want to allow your DNA to be included for research, and if you do, no identifiable info is provided to the research company.

that sounds a bit naive, but i agree with your original point that OP is misleading

I had my DNA taken against my will when I was locked up even though they said it was optional I refused and they still did it.

I think I agreed with you back then, but my wife wanted me to do it.

Isnt it proven those tests are highly inaccurate?

What was "stellar"? Did they make predictions about genetical pre-dispositions or stuff like that?

This has been my assumption since I heard about all this testing. It sounded like something out of a dystopian novel. Big corporations are always the end-goal consumer, because that's where the real money lies.

Serious question since I never done one of these DNA tests. Do you have the option to just send your sample without giving them your information? Like name, age, address etc?

No. You have to receive their kit by mail. I'm wondering whether it's possible to have the kit and the results being mailed to a post box.

But then again, what could possibly be in there that interests you?

"You're 23% Irish so now go fuck yourself!" - great!

Ancestry can actually link you up to relatives and you can trace lineage that way since it's a genealogy site. I messages some of the people it said we're most likely second cousins and managed to add a few thousand entries to my family tree by merging data with them. It's really cool actually if you're into that stuff

Well a couple of the reasons beyond general curiosity I think would involve scenarios like these: 1. A person is a sperm donor baby so they only know half of their genetic ancestry or what cultures they came from. 2. A person is adopted and doesn’t know hardly anything about where they come from. 3. An African American wants to find out where they came from because they don’t have records for their ancestry beyond slavery.

One of these things affects me so I’ve always been curious to try a 23 and Me. However, I’m very glad I haven’t done it because I definitely won’t now. I think number 3 is one of the reasons that has roots beyond just curiosity, but all 3 situations could prevent you from understanding genetic predispositions. I don’t know how much knowing these things truly matters though.

ancestry.com doesn’t work that way (although 23 might), you buy the kit in the store, you mail your saliva sample after 6-8 weeks and the results are sent to the email address you provided, they didn’t send hard copies to a physical address

They could easily sell those kits in any grocery store, but they don't for this very reason. Another good point is the pricing, $99 is just 'cheap' enough for anyone to be able to afford it but too expensive for people to tinker around with it or send a bunch of bogus samples to obfuscate their own data. The process is so easy and cheap an associate lab assistant could handle a few dozen samples an hour. The only thing you are paying for is their vast amount of data which is data mined to link your genetic profile to their estimation model.

The same set of data that is worth far, far more than the measly $99 when sold to insurance companies, advertisement agencies, research bureaus and governments.

Good call dude, we should have conspiracy awards for people who come up with stuff that is later proven to be correct.

I am amazed at how often I get called paranoid etc, people don't seem to understand that even if you explore a conspiracy and are later proven to be incorrect that doesn't mean that it was a bad idea to investigate it or be suspicious in the first place. Humans routinely conspire, so to not be wary of possible conspiracies seems incredibly naive.

What astounds me is we can have scandal after scandal of price fixing, political collusion, false flag attacks, corporate handouts from hiring insiders, legalized theft from taxpayers, illegal wars, you fucking name it.

THE CIA FUCKING KIDNAPPED AND DRUGGED PEOPLE WITH LSD FFS.

But any accusation of below the board behavior will always get "are you crazy! What proof do you have!" Responses.

Like do people not understand how untrustworthy and evil humans generally are? It's incredibly easy to be evil to a group you can't see or communicate with.

That last line is 💯 I'd imagine if people given a button which denies 100$ to some random person but you'll get 50$, I'd imagine most people would press the button. Now if the same secenario is given but this time 100$ is taken from someone suffering from cancer ,id imagine people would hesitate..I hope at least

Because regulars have been adjusted. They have been given just enough information to form an opinion that the powers that be want.

Basically gen z and 95 percent of people are fucked. They have no clue. It takes years of redpills to change their heavily grounded opinions, even when those opinions are losely based on facts, but instead were desiminated from msm and the goverment.

The cognative dissodance people have, especially the fascist left, is astounding. Seems like a lost cause sometimes.

the fascist left? the what?

They like to take words used against them and throw them right back at the lib'ruls without even a cursory understanding of what they mean (see:fake news)

People say paranoid, but they have fifty passwords and PINS and keys locking down their whole life because they know humans are a bit of a nightmare.

In the US this stuff is pretty easy to predict. Can you make money doing it? If so, companies are going to do it unless it's illegal. The only thing stopping it would be that nobody thought to make money that way yet

heck, even if it is illegal, if no regulatory agency is hounding them they may do it anyways

The problem is , this isn't a conspiracy. This is just selling data. To be a conspiracy you would need to prove these companies were created for the sole purpose of selling your data to government and companies. Which, is possible, but hasn't been proved.

More than one person conspired in secret to use data for something which was not agreed upon. I don't care if it was buried in some 100 page t and cs, lawyers are bent as hell.

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... because your congressman is on your side.

They’re legitimately guiding the path of human evolution.

What about The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act?

Laws can be changed very easily. What about the companies acting without the law? Thanks to Snowden we know there are a ton.

And considering most of the laws are changed thanks to lobbying via extremely rich companies (big pharma some of the worst) it's even more likely.

If that law (passed in 2008, although when you think about it probably should have been passed way sooner) is ever overturned it would be a truly frightening situation.

And thanks to Snowden lots of national security secrets from foreign adversaries got made public and set our intelligence back years

Gina! I miss you baby where you at

New phone. Who dis?

Stop being reasonable. That’s not for what this sub is.

You're making assumptions that governments and corporations have scruples, ethics, or morality.

It's mentioned in the articles. And you're right it's not as bad as OP makes it seem. I couldn't find anything wrong with the first one besides it sucks you're paying for them to do research they'll profit off of. But you do opt into it. The second one discussed life insurance which is exempt, health insurance still can't use it but we will see how long that lasts.

It is statistically better to not have insurance.

If I lived a hundred lives then yeah, in the majority of these cases I might be better off

The point of insurance is not that you're saving money in the long run. It's that a single incident doesn't entirely wreck your life.

it's funny that at some point, the only thing that stopped me from taking one was that im cheap. who doesnt wanna know their ancestry. curiosity killed the cat here

Ok if big pharma buys the data with your DNA sample then BP works on a new drug. Since you sent your DNA in the drug is more likely to benefit you.

umm, that’s not how dna and producing new pharmaceuticals works,your dna is just one of 100’s of millions, it uses the collective data from those millions

This could be straight out of Deus Ex. Jesus Christ how can people be so stupid?

They are farming DNA for cures. If your DNA that was so freely given away is a cure for something, you would never know, and that company would make billions. Also tracking databases.

LOL

FARMING FOR CURES

Thats rich.

No they are farming for what ailments and diseases you are at risk of contracting, or which lies dormant already, to deny you insurance coverage.

LOL

(slides on aluminum foil hat)

What do you base that assumption on?

History.

And corporate America.

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One of the things with these DNA test is that affects blood relatives who didn't consent to poop. They too will wind up suffering the effects of their familial DNA being in a database somewhere.

Also with "dna" keep in mind even though a person has 'a' gene is it the lifestyle or environment that triggered an associated condition. Example many feel diabetes is developed over time rather than having a gene. It might not be the pot of gold many think it is.

Right, that's why they say genetics loads the gun, but epigenetics pulls the trigger.

Damn this really is stupid. Why would you send your DNA to a private company. Capitalism and ethics don’t mix and data is valuable. People really are naive

Being a closed adoption case myself I was really tempted to do this...for a hot second. Then ...no...just no.

If I can only know while someone else mines the data...they can fuck right off.

I've been working in the health care industry for close to 16 years now and the amount of HIPAA data protection classes and forms I had to sign for it to just be turned over to private industry and the government because people don't ask the right questions up front is barf inducing.

Oh wait...it's so the RIGHT people and industries can profit off of it...

Sounds like it’s already too late for many.

I mean this doesn’t bother me because I don’t rely on western medicine for my health. I grow cannabis and use it in many forms, as well as tcm and yoga. Don’t depend on the system. Also what if they are creating a Noah’s Ark type situation in case Of Nuclear War. Storing our dna in outer space until able to rehabilitate back to Earth. I’d rather give my DNA the chance. Gotta brace for any scenario imo to drop that sweet good energy and kick the dark sides ass. ;)

I grow cannabis

.

Storing our dna in outer space

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, and never saw your first post, but I was close to doing a DNA test before when the thought struck me how another company will have my DNA on file. So I decided against it.

I didn't think what they could do with it, but just the thought of them having access to it bothered me for some reason. That was enough to not do it.

How about DNA testing through the feds?

They have took mine multiple times?

U.K

What if, let's say, you know a member in your household sent out their DNA to one of these companies. Does that make me second-hand fucked?

DNA collecting isn't a problem. Might be beneficial to society. Insurance deny coverage based on DNA is the exact opposite of Insurance. You're supposed to be insured. It's in the name. If you're not insuring someone, you're robbing them of money. Insurance companies are criminals too.

I knew this would happen as soon I heard about it.

With the new GDPR rules you can apply for a Right to erasure if you feel there is data on you you don't want people to have any more. they then have to give a receipt that this data is deleted and has not been sold on.

Therefore with recipt in hand if data is used on you without your permission when it should have been deleted, its a 21million fine for that company.

Unfortunately, I dont know of any legislation like this here in the US.

I thought it was cool when I was in Colorado for vacation a few of the stores had to get explicit permission to keep personal data from anyone visiting from Europe.

So they just go ahead and apply that to everyone IIRC. At least in one store in the square I went to.

yeah thats the one, didn't realise it wasn't getting a similar thing in the US, but its been pretty sweet to straight up say nah, to data profiling.

is this really a surprise to anyone...

Medicare for all would not only save money, but eliminate this issue.

Never forget that the data collection is SOLD UNDER THE GUISE OF TELLING YOU ABOUT ANCESTRY.

There is no regulation requiring verification thereof, and most companies simply sell people a neato fanfiction to post on their zuccbook pages.

This lie was always my main problem with the commercial DNA shit. People just pay to be told some fun story that they blindly believe.

So is this only in America or does this effect other countries also?

This is next level eugenics. Impressive.

I’ve always thought those DNA testing kits were for more sinister purposes, I just wasn’t sure what. Thanks for trying to warm people.

Gattaca!

Easy fix, vote for people that will push for socialized healthcare and it wont matter

Same, I live in a country with social healthcare and i don’t see how spitting in a tube to find out ya family history could lead to any problems.

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The film Gattaca predicted a possible future where dna is used in every day life and dictates what you can do.

That was over 20 years ago and it's looking more and more possible a future like that could happen.

If you didn't take one of these tests, good for you. For those that did, I feel for you.

This isn't completely true. If one in you distant family did this, it may be pretty bad for you as well.

That's how they got the Golden State Killer. Not by him giving a DNA-sample himself but 10-20 distant family members who used GEDMatch which they then were able to narrow down to him. Freaky stuff, but basically we're all screwed.

Also US: Get free healthcare before it's too late. This is just another reason.

I told my wife our son needs to either be in medical, law enforcement or have a tech degree from elite level school. We need to think about how the government will find value in him. That way he will be on the right side of the fence in the future.

Genetic engineering bacteria/viruses are incoming. They might use this info to depopulate and target specific genetics and kill off millions.

The worst part is that if they get some of your relatives, they might be able to extrapolate data for you. So you're not fully protected by simply abstaining yourself.

I was into Dr Rhonda Patricks epigenetics videos, some talk about polymorphisms or genes that make you more prone to certain diseases or affect nutrient uptake. I almost did it to get the info so i can cross check it with another program that can tell you what polymorphisms you have... anyways I saw that they were giving info to the goverment for "criminals" that was enough of a red flag for me.

These fing corporations are evil.

“Call your congressman and make it illegal to seek the data”

Lmao I live in a red state. Your welcome for the data big pharma.

I was thinking of getting a DNA test for my birthday in a few months. You've scared me out of it now.

You scared me with logic and evidence though, mind you. The best kind of scare. Thanks.

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I wanted one of these kits; 23andme or ancestry, whatever; so bad as a bday/xmas gift since my family has no clue how to appeal to my actual tastes. Then I just had a few critical thoughts concerning who will get to keep all my genetic data and I assumed it's not me. Why I can't I just keep my wide-eyed ignorance?!

Come to any 1st world country other than the US... Public healthcare and all that.

What you're saying is true, and it's a good time to sound the alarm, but these $100.00 "retail" grade DNA tests are no where near as accurate or as useful as the $2000.00 lab grade DNA tests under doctor orders.

What about when you have blood drawn? Couldn't we have had our samples sold off to DNA companies for analysis?

I didn't have a choices when my DNA was taken for sample. If you are charged, not convicted of a felony you can be charged again for refusing the DNA sample.

Off-the-shelf DNA tests are a cheap and not accurate. If you really want to know your DNA you pay $500 + geanologist to get the information.

DNA is amazing.

I love the fact that intelligence comes from the X chromosome and your DNA switches are mostly dominated by the X, not the Y. While the most diseases are linked to Y chromosome. It is the biggest "Thanks Mom and Dad for the DNA mess that is me."

DELETE YOUR DATA https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212170688-Requesting-account-closure

Not defending this whatsoever but at what point does big data=transparency and a level playing field. Reading though the nightmare scenarios here and while they're plausible, I can't help but think we are literally all the same as humans, with just slight variances.

We all have the same diseases, the same mental health disorders, the same propensity to develop addictions and weird sexual tastes.

The world is already pretty fucked up and racist, classist, sexist, diseaseist, and I just don't see how this would change anything .

Everyone likes to think they're unique but in the big picture, we're not.

Those bastards

We didn't listen

what the fuck are you talking about, what are we supposed to do.

Not sign up?
I mean, most people don't read reddit, but upon reading this there is no way I'm ever getting a test done if I can avoid it.

But can you be sure your relative won’t?

Lol I knew this

If they want to fuck me over in premiums, like they are already doing now, for some "defective gene" that puts me in high-risk, I got one word for all this shit: Epigenetics.

Don’t forget the falsification of the tests by the “lab tech” millennials who want everyone to be less racist so they add african ancestry to results and think it’s hilarious. It’s not hilarious people pay to get real results not a social experiment. So pay $100 to get screwed and sold and then lied to. Google Cofounder Brin’s wife is the head of 23 and me. 23&me

Yeah, save your money instead of spending it on these tests. Tin foil prices are bound to skyrocket and that'll do a number on your racist hsberdashery, uncle Paul!

You're a fucking melon.

african ancestry

We ALL came out of africa if you go far enough back... that is unless you came from another planet I guess!

The CEO and co-founder of 23andme is Anne Wojcicki who is the former spouse of Google's co-founder Sergey Brin. Apparently one of their two kids had a pretty gnarly disease so she (with Google's backing) founded 23andme to match potential donor candidates to their child. Of course the natural progression is to take it to the next level of keeping a DNA profile for all users so that the powers that be can reference at their discretion.

The data is anonymous

EXACTLY. I watched a whole video from an investigative reporter about it. There is nothing stopping someone from giving a fake name and using an email address they set up for the purposes.

Also you can request your data NOT be available for medical research but personally, I think the idea of an anonymous database of 8 BILLION people's DNA that is then mined would be amazing!

Imagine if they discovered that (for example) people with a set of seemingly unrelated traits were 95% guaranteed to get a particular cancer. OR imagine your doctor being able to use this database to quickly diagnose your disease instead of taking months or years using differential diagnosis methods!

Agree 100%. It's the most important dataset ever

They also don't sequence your entire genome.

This is when being a bastard with no father listed on the birth certificate is a boon.

And non of this matters for sane countries like Canada

90% upvotes is hardly didnt listen

Ever seen black mirror? I’m so worried to do a dna test because I don’t want a copy of myself being fucked around with in some digital world.

Or be classified as a Roach

What you mean

Men Against Fire episode of Black Mirror. Really dope episode

Is that the one with the monsters or whatever

I stopped watching that one like halfway through and never finished

Yes, you gotta finish it!

I downloaded it and considered watching it on my way home from Florida perhaps I will

Everyone should have their DNA fully sexquenced at birth and put into a worldwide database. It’s only fair for those with a high risk of genes that will cause more illness to pay more for insurance as they probably will need very costly care.

Also, with a global DNA database many crimes will be prevented and solved.

There is nothing to worry about as long as you don’t do anything wrong and break the law.

Everyone should have their DNA fully sequenced at birth and put into a worldwide database

Hyperbolic comments below that aside, ANONYMOUS DNA collection for science and medicine are perfectly fine. In addition, knowing that your child has certain markers could help you prevent those diseases in the future so why not?

I've been telling people this for a while, nobody listened. I never understood why people would voluntarily give up their DNA, but I digress.

What if I told you that if anyone related to you has gotten a felony, that your DNA is already in the federal government database?

Because they make all felons pay to have it indexed. So since my brother got a DUI, everyone in my family and any children I have already have our data in the system.

Must have been a pretty bad DUI if he got with with a felony

All DUIs are felonies in my state. MADD has been working hard to make everything involved with DUIs higher punishments / crimes. My personal favorite is that if you don’t submit to a breathalyzer, that’s a misdemeanor on its own .

Yes gattaca. Who didn't think this was going to happen?

I suppose this wouldn't matter to anyone living in all the other highly developed countries.

The Ancestry "results" are only as accurate as their baseline for comparison. Guess what, they aren't. Your "results" are made up. Thanks for your data consumer.

DNA should be covered under hips laws; this would make release of this information illegal.

It's 100% anonymous data that's been released. There's nothing to see here.

Anyone who didn't assume this from the beginning is nieve, especially if you read the terms of service of any of these companies.

This is the truly scary part:

Consumer Watchdog says roughly 80 percent of people who take the tests choose to share their data.<<

Mindless sheep...wtf.

This is the truly scary part:

Consumer Watchdog says roughly 80 percent of people who take the tests choose to share their data.<<

Mindless sheep...wtf.

Have you not been to r/23andme ? Some of the posts there are like soap oprahs!

eliminate high risk people from the insurance pool.

Nah, they'll just know to charge these people more.

Or if you're that concerned about it, don't give your DNA to a private company. Seems pretty simple to me.

Totally agree, been telling people this for years now.

But, we could ruin their game by sending in each other's samples. Then, if there are issues you can ask for a re-test.

If what race your ancestors were is a big enough deal to a person they pay for a dna test, then im fine with the government taking them. I dont agree with eugenics but at least these people deserve a darwinian kulling

I agree with culling non-developmentally delayed adults limited to your writing ability.

Or, don't call for the deaths of people you think are idiots if you're also an enormous idiot.

Jackie Speier took 23andMe kits down to the border crisis to help reunite families, I shit you not. The nerve of that move is unbelievable. People applauded it, though, somehow. Hell, even Chuck Schumer, who's never gotten anything right, called for privacy regulations on that company.
https://www.businessinsider.com/23andme-genetic-testing-separated-families-2018-6

I’m thinking they probably get almost no DNA from Latinos.

Probably just enough to put a really gnarly virus together.

Any military vet is screwed, they already have that info. I'm pretty sure they gave it away. Look @ Sen. Feinstein and her fasco now...

Go China!

A few questions (It's okay if you downvote me just looking for some opinions)

Why is this suprising?

Why is this bad?

Does it matter if you didn't provide your DNA if enough close relatives have?

Do we have a right to keep our DNA private? If so, why? If not, why?

What would make this better? If you trusted the companies more, would it help?

How is this a conspiracy?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds. I just feel like I don't know enough about the situation to be threatened by it or upset or anything.

Guess what, I've got.bas news for you guys. If you live in a western country, chances are extremely high that the government (and whoever the hell else wants it) already has your DNA.

We should all take the test, only swap tubes with someone else. Give them such terrible data that they can't draw anything conclusive from it.

My question is if a customer only paid for partial ancestry, do the companies still decode the full genome and sell that data?

You really want credit for this idea that has been around for like 20 years.

Yeah, it's a little weird that the CEO of 23and Me, Anne Wojcicki, is the sister of the CEO of Youtube, Susan Wojcicki - where these DNA sites are constantly being propped up with sponsored videos and advertisements. Anne is also the ex-wife of Sergey Brin, the co-founder of Google, and current president of Google's parent company, Alphabet Inc. Google Ventures, the investment arm of Google, financially backs 23andMe. The CEO of Google Ventures is Bill Maris, who is also the founder of Calico, a company whose focus is to "harness advanced technologies to increase our understanding of the biology that controls lifespan." Wikipedia says their goal is to combat aging and associated diseases. Soooo immortality. But its already been determined that overpopulation is a problem, and we are depleting the earths resources...so who gets to decide who lives forever? Who gets to reproduce?

Good thing 23andMe has the worlds biggest DNA depositary to weed out those with inferior DNA! 23andMe advertises testing for over 256 genetically inherited diseases and conditions. Did you know in the last few years there have been 500 genes discovered that could determine intelligence? 23 and Me is collecting that data, but has decided to not inform the public of their brain ratings, concerned the information would not be well received. Let's not forget about 23andMe's designer baby patent. They offer screenings of genomes for inherited traits like height and eye color in their "Family Traits Inheritance Calculator".

Companies like Google are collecting all of our data, including the most unique thing about us, our genetic code, and selling that data to undisclosed third party companies. These DNA companies are also now providing Familial DNA to the police to solve cases like the alleged Golden State Killer, as well as discovering the identities of Jane/John Does like the Buckskin Girl and Lyle Stevik. Will these companies use this new knowledge and monetization of the human genome for strictly benevolent reasons? All I see is a modern day eugenics program.

Ding ding ding!!

I see what you’re saying (most of me wouldn’t be surprised), but I also see an entire community of people actually doing this work and believing in the benefits of the research. Dedicating their lives to it. Surely someone there has half a brain to not let all the money in the world sway their work. The CEO? Idk, probably not likely if I’m being real, but definitely someone who could both a) know what is happening to the data and b) knows how to destroy it. Also I don’t find it all that surprising. CEOs don’t have to know the nitty gritty of their product, just business. Which runs in families and friends.

The benefits are definitely there though - eg. using a medication suggested most functional for your sequence, aka “getting the ‘right’ med” the first time. It’d be based on data scores on how other {still nameless} people reacted to treatments w/ similar sequences to you.

Rather than waiting to see results from every different med they have to swallow to see effect in their illness(es) and have lower quality of life, people will be healthier and therefore more productive and of benefit to society. Prevention is absolutely key in healthcare.

Source: am Health Promotion student. It’s a pre-MPH degree w a wider scope of curriculum

The CEO of Google Ventures is Bill Maris, who is also the founder of Calico, a company whose focus is to "harness advanced technologies to increase our understanding of the biology that controls lifespan." Wikipedia says their goal is to combat aging and associated diseases. Soooo immortality. But its already been determined that overpopulation is a problem, and we are depleting the earths resources...so who gets to decide who lives forever? Who gets to reproduce? Good thing 23andMe has the worlds biggest DNA depositary to weed out those with inferior DNA!

I don't get the connection you're trying to make here. Are you saying Calico would choose not to provide their anti aging treatments to those with inferior DNA? Why would they need to collect the data in secret if that's the case? Why not just require a DNA test before offering their services? Furthermore how does that even benefit them from a profit standpoint?

Companies like Google are collecting all of our data, including the most unique thing about us, our genetic code, and selling that data to undisclosed third party companies.

That's not true. They sold the data to one company (GSK) and they publically disclosed it (and gave an option to opt out).

Isn't it funny when you begin to notice the blatant contradictions in their promises and agenda?

The point about them promising immortality while simultaneously complaining about climate change and overpopulation is spot on. It's obvious they're using our money and tools to create things such as immortality, while promising we'll get to use it, but we all know in the end it will be reserved for royalty, celebrities and the rich.

Google is going to become the monopoly in most sectors, and will have deep ties with the government, allowing them to do whatever the fuck they want. Quote me on that in a few decades. They already have an insane amount of data on half the globe. Now they're collecting biological data? It's crazy. Watch them buy Facebook in like 10 years, and the amount of data they'll have will be unfathomable.

Alphabet is an absolute giant of a parent company, and that isn't, and won't be good for anyone in the present and the future.

All our medical records are being uploaded into the Medicare EHR system. Doctors get kickbacks for doing this.

Joke's on them. I'm male and stated as such on my form. I had my sister swab her cheek instead. F'ing with data is fun

I used a fake name. I got good information that I use.

I've been warning my family for a couple of years about these things. Unfortunately my father had one done about a year ago despite my protestations. At this time we still (relatively) don't know much about human DNA, but as our knowledge of DNA grows the possibilities of what companies will be able to do with it will be endless. Not to mention the potential for abuse.

Your DNA is the most valuable thing you have. It is literally you. Protect it.

You didn't tell me and I didn't ignore you. Why do you have to use such passive aggressive titles OP?

Because it wouldn't be /r/conspiracy if the op didn't come off in some way as an unlikable, raving lunatic. Even when he has a good point.

OP doesn't even make a good point. All this data is anonymized and can't be used to identify someone. All they get is meta data. This entire thing is baseless.

Besides them telling you that its all anonymous, what other way do you know?

Really makes it hard to read the post after a title like that. You’re not the only one who realised this, OP.

Really makes it hard to read the post after a title like that. You’re not the only one who realised this, OP.

Passive-aggressive probably runs in their family. It's a genetic trait you know.

If family members do the test then it really doesnt matter much if you dont.

Now they are selling to insurance companies who will wade through the data to eliminate high risk people from the insurance pool.

I urge you to write to your Congressmen to make it illegal to sell this data.

If the data is already sold won't this just not allow for any sort of competition in the insurance realm making most likely the biggest insurers have an even bigger advantage? So I have to ask, which company do you work for?

Everytime at the doctor's or hospital when they take out blood they always take extra, like what the fuck 4-6 vials? I KNOW they are doing similar shit probably... and the DNA companies YEAH right am I subjecting myself to any database even ancestry.com EF that! I'm glad to see this here.. wake up everybody :)

Have any info about pharmacogenetics? Your post definitely sparks some concern. Been wanting to do this. Bi-polar disorder. Yes I'm on meds. Yes the meds have improved my life and decreased my 'episodes'. I understand the medical standards of privacy with my information. But curious.

Black Mirror; damn roaches!

Would be moot with medicare for all.

Life insurance is separate from medical insurance.

Oh.. yeah.

Fuck life insurance anyway tho.

Fuck life insurance anyway tho.

I'm taking it you're single? When I was single I didn't need life insurance of course. Now that I have a family, insurance is important because I don't want my family to be left destitute when/if my income goes away.

When you are born the government takes a sample of blood anyways. So why not get the information they already have on you.

I’ve worked in the lab at a few hospitals and never saw those samples stored. No blood samples were stored for more than a few days anyway (in case further testing was needed,) but there was never enough blood from an infant to store anyhow, it’s tested and tossed.

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Good thing I never did it!

Now they are selling to insurance companies who will wade through the data to eliminate high risk people from the insurance pool.

A nice easy fix for this would be single payer healthcare, where you don't get fucked over by bad genes

Well in theory you'd be protected from not getting treatment BUT you could lose out on life insurance options because of it.

Anne Wojicki, CEO of 23andMe is the sister of the CEO of youtube. They are all aiming at the same goal.

So you're saying GATTICA is going to be real?

Gattaca the movie predicted this a long time ago. It ain't news.

They could also find a way to tailor- make diseases based on certain haplotypes or other distinguishing features...

yea my gf bought me one, i read the terms and conditions all the way and noped the fuck out

Oooh I remember that! Really enjoyed the post. Shoulda listened

Prepare for the government to start regulating this type of stuff soon, I’d be surprised if there isn’t any lawsuits over privacy.

I doubt they have my DNA. I didn’t give any to that scummy company.

I read an article recently where a man was falsely accused of a crime because HIS DNA was found on the victim. Turned out he had been in jail with the actual killer OVER A YEAR PRIOR.

That's right. Other people's DNA is all over you and your DNA is everywhere... and it LASTS!!!

Will there be any other methods of getting someone’s dna or does it have to be by test?

Welp, time to cash in on that black mirror script I’ve been writing haha

A ton of comments and nothing to add but personal experience. I believed your post almost immediately as “well of course that’d be the next step for corps like this” and was able to talk some family and friends out of it. Not much but I’m thankful for your original post!

Could they make it even worse by raising rates for those who don't have DNA testing?

Write your congressman

Do Americans really think they are the only ones who can change things in the world or that they are the only ones affected by conspiracies?

Yes and if you're genetically defective you won't be able to procreate either.

> with matching names and addresses

Did you miss the part where all this data is anonymized?

> I urge you to write to your Congressmen to make it illegal to sell this data

No. In fact I'd like to see anonymous data from every human being along with their symptoms and disease diagnosis all combined into a huge database. Then that database could be used to help diagnose and cure diseases. The key however would be a) true anonimization and b) legal prohibitions against using any DNA data that is somehow matched to a particular person so people are protected against insurance company bull shit etc.

Of course an anonymous database would be helpful, but that's now how corporate America works. For insurance, pharma, and most any company dealing with health, money is always the first and most important goal, with the life and betterment of society a far second.

Everything I've seen about these companies points toward the data being anonymous when sold. The only thing linking it to you is your email address and credit card and both those risks can be mitigated if you're worried about it but still want the data.

Big Pharma's business model isn't about curing anything; it is about maintenance--the supply of barely affordable medicines that you or your insurer pay for as often as possible until you die.

As a medical cannabis user I get this. I can grow my own "medication" and cut big pharma out... which is why big pharma has pressured insurance companies into not covering cannabis.

This is exactly right. The regulatory officials are complicit in this because of the revolving door between the regulated and the regulator: another part of the swamp.

They collect your DNA at birth if you're born in hospital in the last 50 years sooo.....

THIS HAS TO BE CRIMINAL

why would people with inferior genes, who are more prone to illnesses, not pay more for health insurance or life insurance? do you even know how insurance works? what do you think actuaries do all day?

this is a good development for society as a whole, not a bad development

...

I’ve been saying this from the beginning. No way I’m sending my generic information to a fucking company.

Reading the comments makes me depressed and happy that I don’t live in the us, never took a dna Test and will probably only be around for another 80 years.

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Can we assume that a person might be screwed by this as if people in their immediate family took the test as well?

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What about those whose immediate family took it? My brother did.

Then you’re fucked as well.

Well educated people have been warning about this for a little over a decade. Most biologists in the field agree it should be for no ones use but the patients and insurance companies shouldn't be allowed to touch it. Unfortunately ethical educated people are not the ones running businesses. Theres something about having a lack of empathy and ethics that makes business second nature.

I wonder if the Military will be or has been onboard with this... they collect so much blood and samples out of us, it would be extremely easy to build such a database.

I had the same thoughts and would never do one of these kits. I used to do some pharmaceutical phase 1 studies and any they would sometimes ask if you wanted to voluntarily give them your DNA for genetic pharmaceutical research, I always opted out.

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You’re all missing the other side of the coin. With your genetic data, you can now determine if you really need life insurance. If you’re at high risk for Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s, good idea to get yourself insurance. Just send it in with someone else’s name.

Long time before all those Mormon's genes test sites like Ancestry.com, when you came to doctors visit, you filled up a form, where you self have to listed, all illnesses which you was sick. You family, your parents medical problems etc. Remember it? And you think this information ever was inaccessible for the Big Insurance or somebody else? Hah. Bush's in his "The Patriot Act" gave access to all of our medical records to ... whom? We don't fucking even know it! Because this information illegally sealed from us! Obama prolonged this anti-constitutional act, and Trump it did too!

So, you genes can tell to insurers just about your super major medical problems like imbecility, idiotism etc. But(!) your medical records will tell everything about your health. And they sold already long time ago. Thank you GOP and Mr. Bush.

If you want to do it, use a fake name and address

And how do you pay for it? Green Stamps?

who knew that voluntarily submitting your DNA was a dumb idea.. thank god we had this one guy to warn us lol

The state took my blood as soon as I was born. And they've done the same to my kids. The DNA is already in their hands.

But we are all in god's box of creation so whatever they discover was already predetermined for us to find..

Had a conversation with an older women upper 80s recently who said she tried 23 and me and two other services she said they asked her to reswab multiple times. She said sjes about to do it again but I told her to just not even do it, its most likely a scam or for a collection database.. I should show her this

23 & Me doesn’t swab, they spit. Someone’s lying here.

Shes 85 she probably didn't realize which one she did. And why lie about that? You bored man?

Idk, I hadn’t gotten that far in my conspiracy plot of her.

Check out this post from a white back involving DNA harvesting clinics DARPA And full automation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8hza2d/darpa_23andme_cdc_regulations_repealed_is_darpa

the worst part is you can never know about your own DNA now. the only way to get a test also puts you on a list.

What exactly are you afraid is going to happen to you?

It is an obvious conclusion. Don't pay yourself on the back too much.

Wouldn't the simple solution to this be socialized medicine? Then it doesn't matter your chances for cancer or diabetes because you're covered regardless and then research can be done to prevent these diseases rather than use them for profit.

FWIW the US has been taking pin-pricks of blood from the heels of every newborn since the 80's. They've already got it, and it's the state's property. They don't need these companies, it just makes searching mucn easier.

23 and me had a option to put in a different name (if you're sending test on behalf of someone else) so I chose an anonymous name for my test. I had a feeling this info would be used somewhere down the road that wouldn't be in my best interest.

And the shipping address?

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The enemy here isn’t DNA research but the shitty American “healthcare” system. Most developed countries have a healthcare system where you don’t need insurance, this includes Australia, Canada, UK, etc. What you need to lobby your Congress about us why these smaller GDP countries can afford healthcare for their citizens without health insurance but not the so great US? Funny thing is, the real conspiracy is that the top 1% in the US healthcare system have created this propaganda that Americans NEED insurance and they’ve also inflated routine health services astronomicaly to line their own pockets. DNA isn’t the enemy, your corrupt government is

Just had a surgery to remove cancer from my skin... I paid 20% plus a copay... almost 500. It’s insanity. I pay for the lowest plan with an HSA because I just can’t afford higher plans when I’m usually not sick.

My baby twins were born only after 26 weeks gestation, they spent nearly 100 days in neonatal intensive care, plus wee re-admitted 3 times for viral infections after their due date, and the most we spent was on parking ($20 a week) and food due to stress eating. I’ve heard a similar case in America whereby the parents were slugged with an almost $1,000,000 hospital bill. Thank fuck for the aussie heathcare system

Why do you care if we improve our medical technologies? The DNA of a single individual is useless.

Such a closed mind....

The irony is astounding.

How long til the Chinese steal the DNA databases and start making human clones from our DNA sequences?

Finally the next 'big' step. Within a few months lol. It's going faster then you think.

Shopping list for organ traffickers + self-driving cars = a very healthy elite class.

It gets even darker.. My degree is in genetics, and much of my post graduate work is in cellular genomics and more.. That said, it's already possible to design a vector based on this data to Target large swaths of people.

For the mathematicians out there, he means an etiological vector.

Or just don't get one of these stupid DNA tests. Pretty simple. I've never ever felt the urge or even had the slightest interest. Complete waste of money even if they were dodgy like this. I'm white, end of research.

no one really cares. stop being so agressive in your word choice please thanks.

Here comes Gattica.

Well i must say you are right. Law enforcement is also using it to solve crimes. But the insurance thing ia absurd. Thats crazy. Im surprised someone hasnt tried to challenge its yet. But im sure you sign away your dna rights in some long ass form im sure they make you agree to.

This is the whole reason I never took one. My mind imediatly jumped to this conclusion. Not gonna lie though, totally curious about what would pop up.

It’s like real life gattaca

I feel that drug companies are going to start manufacturing their own "problems" and selling us the cure.

Someone should tell the alt-right. Those guys really don't want to be anything but white and always use the kits.

I’m putting my ideas out there because most of the time it comes true. Call me crazy but this shits most likely the case

Fuck your title even though I agree with the substance.

You write a post on a conspiracy forum and act super high and mighty because people didn't head your warning? I think you are operating on a misunderstanding on what this place is.

At its best this is a very beginning place so as to seed counter establishment truths in the the public consciousness. However its also filled with shills and AstroTurf bots (like the rest of the internet).

You're not the only one to notice that DNA information is going to be abused. It's a very serious problem but also obvious to many of us here.

I'm glad I never did this shit. But of course, the Pentagon and the VA has all my shit anyways.

Duh.

A database of people's data? That's a gold mine for insurance companies, for advertisers, for law enforcement... I don't know how anyone could think they would just sit on it with the bounty of info that it's worth.

Information collecting corporations like Google or Amazon can at least monetize the info they collect and are incentivized to keep it private. Nothing stopping these DNA companies.

Ugh yes lets make more laws because people are to stupid to think for a fucking second about anything. People need to stop being so fucking naive and stop blaming companies for acting like a company trying to make money.

When does ethics come into play?

If you have universal health care I dont see this as a bad thing

If healthcare were free, this wouldn’t be an issue.

If health care were free, they'd have 100 percent of our DNA.

How can healthcare be free? Honest question. How are we going to pay for it?

I remember reading your post and thinking it was super likely that this could/would happen. Props to you man

Big Tech really snuck up on us didn’t it?

We were willing to trade convenience for a complete loss of privacy and we only have ourselves to blame really.

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Don't act like this was just your idea. Anyone with half a brain saw that it was a bad idea to pay a trivial amount of money for a DNA test to see "what your heritage is".

It was way too cheap for it to be all above board. Remember, if something's free or too cheap... you're probably the product being sold.

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I have been saying this since these companies began popping up everywhere!

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Their website says they use collected data after stripping it of any identifying information unless you’ve given them specific permission to do so...in the event of a breach, yea your information could be compromised, but you always risk a breach of information when you go to the doctor, get a credit card, do taxes, through emails, social media, etc...how is this any more dangerous?

Stuff like this makes me want to move to a planet far far away.

They don’t even need everyone’s... over time they’ll slowly be able to fill in gaps by connecting the dots...

Not a conspiracy theorist in any way, but I've thought the same thing for awhile (even being a 23andme member).

I've also always thought that the genealogy and family tree companies were a way to track people.

Come on guys, corporations and governments only have your well being in mind and would never stoop to misusing your data unethically.

Kinda highlights that insurance is a ponzi scheme at this point.

Every day I'm surprised how this sub is still allowed to exist, there's so much good shit in here.

I really think this could be really good for human kind when it comes to curing genetic diseases. However it could be used in terrible ways as well.

There is no money in the cure, only the treatment and selling of false hope.

great forsight, never did it, never will

Insurance is a game of chance. They take a financial risk based on widely available “odds”or actuarial tables.

Access to DNA is the equivilant of Card Counting, except you continue to pay rates based on equal chances. If access to DNA is not associated with a related discount to reflect the insurance companies ACTUAL risk.... then it is nothing but a conjob on consumers... and one they are unwittingly, and unwillingly participating in

tl;dr - it’ s a load of bollocks

This should be on the frontpage forever.

My best friend is a geneticist who was also telling me they’re selling the data to google.

I told this story on reddit before, but I always turn off the "give us your DNA" ads AND THEY MUST KNOW IT cause the more I turn it off the more I see it everywhere. Anyway, so this one time I was in a Carl's Junior and this guy with dark sunglasses followed me into the bathroom and attempted to snatch my poop. I know for sure they were after my DNA, I can't explain it otherwise.

Once i realized that google has a fuckton of stock in ancestry.com i realized something was fucky with it. Good call mate.

it's called "normalization" in that we feel comfortable in our personal information (can't get more personal than DNA) being available to the "public" (ie "for research" never mind such research can be in any field from marketing to biowepaons)

This post assumes everyone lives in USA

It doesn’t really matter. Artificial intelligence will make this obsolete before anything comes of it. An AI will simply be able to observe you for a few moments to determine everything about your health and genetic status, your intelligence, your self-image, and so forth through your body and its movement. A short conversation will reveal to it all your innermost secrets. There’ll be no need for brain scanners or anything so intrusive - your word choice will tell all.

Nevermind your DNA showing a propensity to fall ill, you’ll be known as a risk-taker just by your accent, by the way your face moves. Lying will be impossible.

The real worries start when it goes to insurance companies.

But i agree. I was fortunately aware of that possibility and dissuaded any of my friends using those services.

However i do think that in the longterm you are required to give your DNA otherwise you wont get insurance. So it is only a temporary relief, since if they really want the data they will force the feds to collect it. Since the GOP is in Power and is actually planning to get rid of Democracy, sorry Americans. You are (once again) Fucked

The data could be used to choose who survives the coming collapse... ?

Heres another aspect that I am not sure has been mentioned, you could be classified eventually with out even taking a test.

Say if a Sibling, or someone related to you does, they could eventually correlate and extrapolate that Data and mark you as someone who could be prone to traits based off your closest relatives.

The co-founder of Google, Brin, his wife co-founded 23andme.

This is also why moving your medical records to an easily copied form from paper was a bad idea from a privacy standpoint.

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Serious question. Is it possible to anonymously do 23andme DNA test?

...or get in on the game? DnA testing is far from exact.

This was my worry as well. Great idea.

Its smart. I was thinking about starting my own dna company and collecting dna samples and selling that data to government and big pharma. Genius.

/u/zebraslap

GATTACA

OP writes like a jilted ex girlfriend.

Ultimate goal of DNA testing companies *wasn't about making money

How are people not using fake names to do this? I don't understand..

You can't make it illegal. Everyone who does the test signs the form that allows it. I knew this and I will never do one of those tests.

I don't think anybody thought companies weren't doing that....especially in this sub. Did you get replies saying they weren't storing results?

To already illegal to use genetic testing data to determine insurance risk.

People are money, until they are not, then we deal with soylent green.

Or we could just take healthcare out of the private sector. You wouldn't have to deal with greedy companies using you DNA to predict your price.

A Congressman was arrested today and you think the government doesn’t have an interest in manipulating you or anyone else to make money. Ok....

A congressman can't just tap into the national health care reserve and take money. And if they do it would be highly illegal, so you can punish them if they do. On the otherhand, being a greedy sack of shit company is legal.

Didn’t they catch the golden state killer because a family member did a DNA test kit that was a close match to the crime scene DNA? You’re basically volunteering yourself for codice.

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Most of my extended family (2nd cousins) have done these DNA tests. I'm glad my mom and I haven't. Fuck that shit.

Another fear I have is someone using the database in the future to judge/detain people based on ethnicity/ancestry. Think of what the Holocaust would have been like had Hitler had DNA tests like this.

Now think of what it will be like in 10 years, when another group is demonized the way, say, Muslims are. Yes, I know, it's a religion, but most Muslims come from Arab countries. So the Gov uses these tests to target anyone with a certain percentage of Arab DNA. Doesn't matter if you're a proud, red blooded American patriot. You have 40 to 60% Arab DNA, so you're guilty by association and sent to WWII style camps the way the Japanese were. They could do this with anyone of any ethnicity/ancestry as long as that ancestry lines up with a group the Gov has targeted/demonized.

Now you can provide "bad" dna in your enemies name and fuck them

You know what sucks? If you did do a test but didn't pay the extra for the medical markers. "They" know your vulnerabilities (and can use it against you) but you don't.

Fucking Gattaca.

I saw this on X files

Does anyone else find it odd the CEO of YouTube and 23andMe are sisters?

This is the same for blackboxes with GPS on cars. They tell you that's in case the car gets stolen, but it's actually a way to profile your driving habits. In a few years some people won't be able to have a driving insurance because they will be deemed high risk.

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I suddenly feel like watching Gattica...

Whew, this is one of those moments where procrastination was actually a good thing for me in the end!

And I wanted to do one of these so badly,,

I have stellar genetics. 23andme verified it. Idgaf. The weak should fear the strong.

Now this is a fucking good post

to add: Monsanto bought a controlling share in CRISPR, and then Bayer bought Monsanto.

I wonder if a disease is going to crop up all of a sudden stemming from GMOs (no pun intended) and then the cure will be readily available via Bayer or an affiliate. Said disease will require medicinal upkeep over the course of peoples' lives... readily available through Bayer or an affiliate.

"research" = population control/extermination bioweapon. Thank you for your contribution!

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-07/crispr-brings-investment-but-also-bioweapon-risks>

Maybe I'm pessimistic but wouldn't our shady government just sell the info anyway they've already shown us they like money far more than our well being

I seriously can’t believe that people actually sent their dna off, like wtf did you think they were going to do with it? Just destroy after use? LOLOLOLOLOL

Nothing good will come of this

You should worry about a database that matches your kidney to be compatible with a billionaire.

The real question is why do I care about my DNA and where it came from and stuff

Time for super healthy specimens to sell their sample so we can send it in and appear genetically immaculate.

GATACA?

Yea. NASA actually labeled Gattaca as the most realistic scifi movie.

so my cousin who's ever had a job, lives at home literally in the basement and doesn't pay taxes of any kind if fully protected from this sort of thing?

I'm being they will use they lack of information against them too, with a higher in general fee.

it should be anonymous: drop the sample at some designated place then claim the results via printout at any outlet using the key/card etc that came with the kit

People didn't believe this?

I thought Google owned one of these companies and explicitly stated that.

And this is why socialised medicine is a must. No more insurance companies.

This should be higher

I have a completed Ancestry test on my shelf, and I never sent it in. I got it as a gift, but I can not bring myself to put it in the mail.

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People arguing the Government already does this so this is no danger, in your old thread. As if a private company is as regulated as the government when it comes to any private information, smh.

Yeah obviously this was the goal.

Idk why you're acting like a prophet or something this has been talked about and reported on long before your original post.

Everyone knew they would do this...anyone with sense. 23and me is owned by a bunch of joose.

Every scientific advance in history will get exploited by someone. It’s normal.

Now consider the declining scale of weaponry, where one nutjob can destroy an entire city. Some sort of Brave New World is not unexpected.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Some of you agreed. Some of you mocked me. No matter. It is all coming to be now. They already sold the database to multiple pharmaceutical companies.

Maybe, but that doesn't prove or even loosely imply that they are trying to "build the most powerful database in the history of mankind. A complete DNA database with matching names and addresses."

Also, the article clearly states that it's voluntary, opt-in and can be opted out of later.

I imagine "opting-out" is more or less like "deleting" your Facebook profile (i.e. facebook takes it down and essentially stores it in perpetuity), they have data that's worth money, why delete it? They gain nothing, just put the neccesary legalese in the fine print.

23andme is refusing to let me download my own DNA data!!!!!! Their system keeps timing out.

I own that data and deserve to be able to download it

You realize when you send in that DNA they have no ability to actually identify you right? Like I bought a kit, spit in a tube and wrote my name on a piece of paper. I could have written any name I wanted, and besides that there are probably millions of people with my same name. There's no way they can use your anonymously given DNA against you for health insurance reasons etc... Furthermore, if there was any conspiracy to get peoples DNA it can easily be obtained any time you go to the Dr.

Sure, they are going to use the DNA databases to make as much money as they can. That is understandable since they are corporations looking to make a profit.

Let me get some residuals from using my DNA at least geez.

Coincidence that Amazon recently sold 23andme Ancestry+Health (genetic predispositions, etc) for $100 on Prime Day, when it is normally $300?

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. You would have to be a moron to not believe this. The real question is whether or not you believe that aggregating this amount of genetic data, standing up deep learning on it etc. has more potential benefit mankind that possibility for malevolent use. I personally think it does.

I just made a post about this!!!! I totally believe you.

Gattaca future incoming.

Sounds like a black mirror episode...

AHHHH MAKE YOUR OWN BUSINESS AGGHHH

Full disclosure. I am antichrist.

They link social media behavior to DNA profiles. Pretty soon we will all be classified into microsegments and each segment will have its own sites to visit.

You depressed the fuck out of me. Oh well at least you don't have to try hard in life since it won't get you anywhere anyways./s

Eugenics. What they always wanted!

There is no guarantee the 16 year old will get in an accident either. But its more likely than a 45 year old female that he will. If you have a family history of diabetes, it is more likely you will get it than someone without a history of diabetes.

Jesus the liberal dream.

There are laws against this very thing in some states but there is not a complete ban on it. http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/genetic-employment-laws.aspx

I didn't appreciate that movie as much as I should have in school as a kid. Then again, what kid takes movie day seriously. I need to watch it again.

What you mean

The GINA act of 2008 makes this illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_Information_Nondiscrimination_Act

Love that movie

..but if it isn't based in science why will they do it ? It will not give the desired result

Um....no. The American with disabilities act prevents employers from pulling bs like this. If anything, they have to accommodate you lmao

If it was sarcasm I missed it. Dude definitely didn't add anything to the conversation though.

I am definitely chill.

"Is this the same person over and over or is this a Alabamian family?"

Sounds like you should be a movie writer...

Not from you, but what about your mom, your grandpa, your aunt, etc.

So true

I got another scenario. You live in Saudi Arabia, or any other totalitarian government. And the government forces everyone in the country to take a dna test. They arrest anyone with Jewish heritage, with genes connected to homosexuality, or any other bullshit arbitrary reason. They use this information to politically oppress large swathes of the population.

More than one person conspired in secret to use data for something which was not agreed upon. I don't care if it was buried in some 100 page t and cs, lawyers are bent as hell.

you're right, its actually not our for profit healthcare. Its the pharma companies and medical supply companies, as OP said, who can charge whatever they want because "insurance" will pay for it. If it was a free market, prices of everything healthcare related would plummet.

I don't know if our health care system really is "for profit". What if a laissez faire capitalist (aka for profit) situation eliminated the gov corruption and allowed people to choose low cost doctors?

Kinda like how we all have a thousand choices over what smartphone we buy or what box of cereal we grab at the grocery store.

Ultimately I trust the gov so little I'm just trying to find a way to justify the libertarian party.

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Other way around buddy. Voting is the slaves suggestion box

New phone. Who dis?