Those people certainly do look similar. My question is... why? Why would NASA want a major mistake like that displayed live on the world stage?

Another follow up question. Why would NASA plan a billion dollar conspiracy but then allow them to keep their old names? Seems kinda like a big oversight after they have spent billions and billions of dollars making sure everything went according to plan.

They also allowed them to keep their old hair colors. Why not spend $10k on face plastic operations in such a case?

...like I said it wasn't supposed to blow up and they had to act quick.

In another part of this thread, you claimed the crew was never actually on the craft - but here, you're stating that the craft was never supposed to blow up. If they weren't on it, why was it not supposed to blow up?

But if it was never supposed to blow up, why would they make sure none of the crew members were on board?

So NASA was just planning to send an empty craft up into space? Why?

Your story keeps changing based on the objections people are raising to your lack of evidence or coherent argument.

The fact that you can't answer basic questions about the very theory you are putting forth is problematic. Your original statement relies exclusively on pictures that claim to show the same persons over a period of years and your own bias towards NASA. People have consistently raised legitimate objections to your "proof" and you refuse to respond to those objections.

What you're claiming is an inability to comprehend is actually an inability to follow the failed logic of your argument. There's a difference, dude.

nice hole you dug here

... they had to act quick.

They didn't make them change hair color for 20 years because... they had to act quickly? Now I know for sure you are just a troll.

Removed. Rule 2

They didn't change hair color for 20 years because they had to act quick?

Many of the NASA cover ups are actually very poorly done

hmmm maybe the cover ups seem so poor because they actually aren't cover ups and scientists aren't fucking directors/producers

They needed a excuse to scale back space mission so they public wouldn't be suspicious.

Now THAT is a good theory

Now that 6 of the 7 crew members have been confirmed to be alive what are your thoughs?

You honestly think they could have scammed Richard Feynman?

Now that 6 of the 7 crew members have been confirmed to be alive what are your thoughs?

You honestly think they could have scammed Richard Feynman?

So they scammed one of the smarted people of the 20th century but random people on the Internet figure out the truth?

This shows you haven't actually read the Challenger report.

Because you think that NASA could get everyone on the same page so as to fool Feynman then somehow not keep the knowledge of the astronauts still being alive quiet? You have to assume that NASA could not afford plastic surgery for them and allowed them to be seen in public.

For example?

How the ISS astronauts are on earth?

Supporting evidence please.

They don't have evidence they have guesses. You will notice that every one of the videos that say the ISS is fake, at least in my experience, only use the same 20 or so videos. They never address things such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhmdyQdu96M or any of the hundreds / thousands of high resolution videos.

I mean you can calculate the distance to the ISS yourself with just a small team of people

Now that 6 of the 7 crew members have been confirmed to be alive what are your thoughs?

Who has confirmed this?

Here's my problem with theories that use two cherry-picked photographs of people in an attempt to "prove" they are the same person - there's no "proof" at all. In fact, people that look similar but are unrelated exist everywhere. Drawing lines or arrows on one photo to show a specific angle of their mouth or size of their nose doesn't really prove much - here's a photographer/artist that specifically uses this phenomenon as content for his work: http://www.viralforest.com/this-photographer-finds-people-who-are-not-related-but-look-very-similar-to-each-other/

And I agree with the other individual on here - what ends does this conspiracy serve? What is gained?

Now they have to continue the lie with shuttle launches and rovers. It makes them a lot of money.

But why lie about a failed launch? What good does that do anybody?

I don't think it was meant to blow up, but I but when it did they had to cover the fact that the crew should be dead.

How could any human being survive an explosion like that? It's not like we're being told about how bad the explosion was without any proof...we have actual video evidence of the event itself.

Evidence of that statement?

Your statement: "They were never in it". What is your evidence of that? Again, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Well, we have video footage of them entering the craft before launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cditnPhrQ-I

We also have audio footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQV-DrpReeQ

So, again, please provide evidence that they were never in it.

So what you really mean is that regardless of whatever evidence anyone could conceivably provide, you've made up your mind and refuse to listen to anything else?

You say you want evidence that they were on the craft - I provide that evidence, albeit from a source you are suspicious of, but evidence nonetheless. You do nothing to refute the evidence or suggest as to why it's not showing what it's showing...rather you just declare the source of that evidence to be untrustworthy and thus release yourself from the obligation of explaining said evidence. That's convenient.

No I would accept evidence from elsewhere.

So would you accept evidence from the news stations who covered the events? The photographs from those who attended the launch? I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find all of that - and more - on the internet.

Say for example a new drug is created, I would not allow the creators of the drug to test and claim it to be safe. An independant tester should come in to test it.

That's not comparable to what we're discussing here and I think you know that. You made an extraordinary claim - you cannot provide any evidence save a few images cherry-picked to show the similarities between two different people you are claiming to be the same.

I mean news stations are also a hard thing to accept evidence from as they're all influenced by big coprations and the goverment anyway.

So again, you state that no matter what evidence I could provide, it still wouldn't alter your belief. And that's fine - but that's not logical or even within the realm of reason.

But he didn't even make an extraordinary claim though.

They were tho

https://youtu.be/F5YRxMZjADk

No

My mind is completely open and has detected your bullshit. Very high concentrations.

Who has confirmed this?

Absolutely nobody lol

The thing is. A simple and cheap DNA test could prove this theory true. The fact that no one has done this test means that the conspiracy is not valid. OP himself could do it.

Just pay the poorest one $5000 for it. If he says no it kinda illustrates something is fishy. But either way, you can get DNA from anything. Even a paper cup they drank from. You just need better machinery to test that. You can still collect it though.

I wouldn’t let a stranger pay me $5k for a DNA test. Their reluctance doesn’t prove anything.

1 in 7 people would. Hell, you can even gift them a DNA test and they could take it for fun. Or pay them $50 for it.

Where do you get the 1-in-7-people number?

The people in the photo.

Exactly. “Confirmed” is a reach. Suspected would me more accurate.

Why would the astronauts be in such high profile positions like the CEO of a marketing company in Chicago? This makes no sense.

Because given that the conspiracy were in fact true. Do you really think people would believe it?

Why would they just bring the towers down on 9/11 with a controlled demolition from the bottom when the planes hit near the tops? This makes no sense.

When you suspend you disbelief it doesn't matter what the story is.

They gave the people a tragedy and/or occult sacrifice. Unfortunately, most people will refuse to believe this.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The evidence is quite compelling and now the average American could care less about seeing rockets go into space. Seems like the operation was successful.

What evidence?

Did you not click on the link?

I did - that's why I posted my original comment:

Here's my problem with theories that use two cherry-picked photographs of people in an attempt to "prove" they are the same person - there's no "proof" at all. In fact, people that look similar but are unrelated exist everywhere. Drawing lines or arrows on one photo to show a specific angle of their mouth or size of their nose doesn't really prove much - here's a photographer/artist that specifically uses this phenomenon as content for his work: http://www.viralforest.com/this-photographer-finds-people-who-are-not-related-but-look-very-similar-to-each-other/

And I agree with the other individual on here - what ends does this conspiracy serve? What is gained?

Those photographs are nothing more than cherry-picked images. They prove nothing other than people, sometimes, look a lot like other people.

My bad I forgot nasa was an institution of integrity ;)

Isn't that kind of ad hominem attack on NASA with absolutely no effort towards actually responding to any of the evidence people are actually providing?

What evidence have you provided that disproofs it? The statistically probability of people looking the same, aging appropriately, and having the same name is next to none. Unless you have DNA tests the theory stands.

That's not how burden of proof works - I never claimed that the Challenger disaster was actually a disguised "occult sacrifice" - I don't need to provide any evidence that it isn't because I didn't make the claim.

You, however, made the claim that it was an "occult sacrifice". But you can't provide any support for that statement, only your personal belief.

The statistically probability of people looking the same, aging appropriately, and having the same name is next to none.

That's not true. At all. Again, if you're open to other viewpoints (and I have my doubts), you'll find literally thousands of examples of people who look identical but share no common ancestry. I sourced on in my original post in this thread.

Unless you have DNA tests the theory stands.

I don't need to have DNA tests because I'm not claiming anything extraordinary.

I completely agree that there are identical looking people across the board. But nasa has for more advanced technology that’s not disclosed to the public. No astronaut would knowingly get into that rocket ship when there’s a safer alternative. Whether they died or not it was still a smoke screen to keep people oblivious to the secret space programs.

I completely agree that there are identical looking people across the board.

Okay, so you're acknowledging the fact that your original evidence is problematic -

But nasa has for more advanced technology that’s not disclosed to the public.

I agree with you on this -

No astronaut would knowingly get into that rocket ship when there’s a safer alternative.

I'm struggling to even understand the logic behind this statement - no one thought the Challenger was unsafe. What we discovered was mechanical failure, a leak in the SRB joint, caused a massive structural collapse. But the science behind that launch - and space travel in general - is sound.

Whether they died or not it was still a smoke screen to keep people oblivious to the secret space programs.

You claimed they did not die. Now you're revising that opinion to say, "Whether they died or not..." Why change your position mid-way through the discussion? And who is oblivious to secret space programs? I don't know anyone who doesn't doubt the US government, including NASA, has space knowledge that the general folk of the US will never be privy to.

But none of this has to do with the statement you originally made - namely, that the Challenger crew never died, rather they were re-integrated into society without changing their name or their appearances. In order to believe that, you'd have to believe that despite the great financial efforts mounted by NASA in order to pull this fast one (never mind the fact that the Challenger represented a significant embarrassment for the US and our space program - you've yet to explain why that would be a good thing), they failed to secure even the most basic effort to pass this off without discovery. You don't think it's within NASA's power to require facial reconstruction surgery of the crew or, at the very least, a legal name change of the participants?

Alright man you’re getting to into this lol I didn’t mean to come across as changing my stance because my point is, there goal was achieved regardless if they died or lived. They gave the public a tragedy and had it in the MSM for years to come. Also I do believe the general public is completely oblivious to the technology they actually have, most people completely dismiss anything related to UFO/conspiracy. They only have the image of nasa portrayed through the media. Lastly, that’s a good point nasa didn’t go through the trouble to change names or maybe they didn’t because it makes the story less believable.

Dude, I'm just trying to follow your logic. Calling you out on the problems with your statement isn't an example of me "getting to into this".

They gave the public a tragedy and had it in the MSM for years to come. Also I do believe the general public is completely oblivious to the technology they actually have, most people completely dismiss anything related to UFO/conspiracy. They only have the image of nasa portrayed through the media. Lastly, that’s a good point nasa didn’t go through the trouble to change names or maybe they didn’t because it makes the story less believable.

But what does any of this have to do with an occult sacrifice? Again, you started off with one statement ("It was an occult sacrifice") that has now transformed into "It was the government giving the American people a tragedy" (why?). Why make a statement, refuse to back up that statement, and then change that statement when you get called on your lack of evidence?

Because sometimes people comment random shit on post not thinking someone else is going to engage in a textbook debate ;) and it wasn’t an occult sacrifice, the dates didn’t match up

You stated it was a "tragedy and/or occult sacrifice" (emphasis mine).

Shouldn't we be responsible for making accurate statements? Especially in a subreddit that values truth and transparency?

My bad if the formatting is fucked but heres some things I've found. I went to the SSDI(Social Security Death Index) database - not one person from the 1986 Challenger Disaster's death was recorded, not even the teacher. This data base contains 94 million deaths between 1935-2014. I searched family members that have died in the past and they were listed so the database seems legit but why weren't predominant members of societies deaths recored?

First, Francis Scobee I could not find any credible information about this person. - If you google his name it says he's the CEO of 'Cows in Trees' but according to the SEC! that company does not exist. - If you go to his facebook page its clearly a fake profile. Theres no information such as his birthday and what CEO only has 120 friends? https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee?lst=100006704956821%3A1153058654%3A1533919960

If you go to his Linden! its also a fake profile. I determined this because the address of his company 135 S. Lasalle street, suite 2900, Chicago IL doesn't not exist.

Judith Resnik

According to Yale! she graduated from Bryn Mawr College in 1972 and NYU Law in 1975 but I was unable to verify any of this. Bryn Mawr! they have class records for graduates for every year but 1972 & 1973. Same goes for New York University Class of 1975, they had no records for law school graduates this year.

If you don't find this convincing I can provide information about the rest of the people, its just time consuming. But considering the shadiness and the lack of information its almost as if there is a conspiracy.

In all seriousness, kudos to you for the research.

My bad if the formatting is fucked but heres some things I've found. I went to the SSDI(Social Security Death Index) database -

My first question is which one? The SSDI is almost exclusively behind various paywalls - I'm using SSDI-Search.com to gain general access but, without paying their subscription fees, I'm unable to find detailed records. Do you have a link I could use to follow up with my own research?

...not one person from the 1986 Challenger Disaster's death was recorded, not even the teacher. This data base contains 94 million deaths between 1935-2014. I searched family members that have died in the past and they were listed so the database seems legit but why weren't predominant members of society deaths recoreded?

Your statement that "not one person from the 1986 Challenger Disaster's death was record" is false. Francis Scobee is listed, with the year 1986 (this corresponds to the disaster). He's the first listing (see: http://www.ssdi-search.com/ssdi-search.html?firstname=Francis&lastname=Scobee). So is Michael Smith, albeit his 1986 record is buried beneath quite a few other records (let's be fair - Michael Smith is a common name). Ronald McNair, 1986, is as well. And Elison Onizuka, 1986.

Also, my understanding is that the SSDI contains records detailing 94.7% of deaths. That's not a comprehensive listing. Not necessarily proof of anything but interesting nonetheless when you're trying to claim that if it doesn't appear on the database, it means they never died.

First, Francis Scobee I could not find any credible information about this person. - If you google his name it says he's the CEO of 'Cows in Trees' but according to the SEC! that company does not exist. - If you go to his facebook page its clearly a fake profile. Theres no information such as his birthday and what CEO only has 120 friends? https://www.facebook.com/richard.scobee?lst=100006704956821%3A1153058654%3A1533919960

If you go to his Linden! its also a fake profile. I determined this because the address of his company 135 S. Lasalle street, suite 2900, Chicago IL doesn't not exist.

Judith Resnik

According to Yale! she graduated from Bryn Mawr College in 1972 and NYU Law in 1975 but I was unable to verify any of this. Bryn Mawr! they have class records for graduates for every year but 1972 & 1973. Same goes for New York University Class of 1975, they had no records for law school graduates this year.

If you don't find this convincing I can provide information about the rest of the people, its just time consuming. But considering the shadiness and the lack of information its almost as if there is a conspiracy.

In regards to the rest of your personal information about Scobee and Resnik, I'd like to get a bit of clarification about whether or not this is bleeding over into "doxxing" territory - would a mod be willing to comment on that? I don't want to run afoul of any community rules. In general, I don't feel comfortable discussing private details about a private individual's business address or their Facebook profile.

When I get home I’ll see what ssdi I used. I just wanted to reply to your comment about doxxing. Doxxing, implies malicious intent. I am simply sharing public information, from public profiles, on a public forum.

Regardless, I don't want to continue this discussion until a mod clarifies that what is occurring is not doxxing. I certainly don't want to lose access to this sub, or even Reddit, because of an argument over the Challenger disaster.

Well, if you wish to continue and get to the bottom of this they have this thing called a DM. If I get banned for discussing the validity of a public company that the SEC doesn’t recognize, then this sub isn’t worth my time.

now the average American could care less about seeing rockets go into space.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16981730/spacex-falcon-heavy-launch-youtube-live-stream-record

SpaceX successfully launched its Falcon Heavy rocket earlier this afternoon from Cape Canaveral, Florida, and the live stream of the event was the second biggest in YouTube’s history. The event reached over 2.3 million concurrent views on YouTube, coming in second to the Red Bull Stratos jump, which racked in a ridiculous 8 million concurrent views back in 2012.

Also Jeran is an idiot.