The South were Democrats btw...

So? The point of this persons post is that it doesn't matter Democrat Republican makes no difference it's a false dichotomy.

No, he’s literally said we’re not free unless we “feed the poor”. It was a total political statement.

Someone telling me what I should and should not do with my money is not freedom.

So the notion of feeding the poor is a political statement? Please elaborate.

No. His entire statement is a political statement.

How so? OP stated conspiracy research shouldn’t lead you to to lean left or right so what made you come to that conclusion?

He’s literally advocating for socialism (under the guise of Libertarianism?). He wants bigger government. He wants to control where my money goes. He “no longer believes in democracy”, apparently because his idealistic form of government is not installed.

I’m sorry but I just fail to see where he’s advocating more government. Judging by your words of “he wants to control where my money goes” it’s clear what side of the political spectrum you are leaning to.

🧐

Can you put your feelings in words?

Just facts.

To me it is super funny that one side just basically said "OK we are claiming charity, no one on the right can help the poor"

And the guys on the right just all went "Fine, see if we care... damn lefties wanting to help the poor... politcal statement bla bla"

Dont the right realise that attitude is costing them bigtime?

No. I don’t want a government that is absolutely terrible with my money, buying pallets of toasters for 3rd world communities without electricity. I don’t want them building power plants in Afghanistan that will never turn on because there is no pipeline infrastructure to fuel it. I don’t want them indoctrinating our kids by teaching them that they are victims for generations, reliant on the state. If I want to help someone, I’ll help them. If someone needs a hand, I’ll most likely give them a hand. OP is saying in the comments that billionaires should give up all of their money because it’s not fair etc...

I mean... he does have apoint though

If you have 50 million and still need more, while kids are dying with flies on their eyelids, and you arent using it to help, you are probably one of those egotistical bastards that really is holding us back as a species

I would be fine with some kind of cap on money earned, maybe it would even get rid of our infantile competetive drive in that field

I’m sure the billionaires of the West give more to charity than the majority of of nations. What about a cap on government’s wealth?

No need, if the governments wealth is in fact the peoples wealth though, as it should be :o

If however you mean a lifetime earning cap on politicians, then sure why not, though i am sure that they would just circumvent it with more shady shit

Yeah, their spending is a waste. We agree.

Yes, and it surely threatens the current "He who dies with the most toys wins" method the world is using

So let’s try communism! Lol

Parties evolved.. Values changed over time.

Both sides are wrong and evil.

Only two choices? That's really the best option for all the citizens?

Slavery existed before the south gained freedom. They didnt need to "use freedom" to enslave people. They learned it from the thousands of years it had been practiced before them.

| My problem is with touting states rights, while enslaving human beings at the same time.

This is not a coherent point that I can address.

| Of course it is. Just open your eyes.

See, your doing it again. Your verbiage is way off. "Open your eyes" doesnt work in this scenario. We are discussing your incoherent comments, so sight is a given or we aren't having this discussion.

States rights can be used for good or bad. Like everything else.

Yes, they did use States Rights as a means to enslave. Much more recently they tried to use it to prevent African American's from attending school. Also, yes they did tout it as a mechanism to maintain personal freedom and it can be. Like I said, it can be used for good or bad. The reason Marijuana is decriminalized or legal in certain states is due to states rights. The fact that we can directly vote on referendums and initiatives (in certain states) that can defy Federal law is actually quite amazing.

I have heard people say the Articles of Confederation was better than the Constitution, but I admit I haven't read up enough about it to form an opinion.

As to Lincoln being a tyrant, it wouldn't be hard to make that case. He suspended Habeas Corpus, Jailed civilians without trial (15,000-20,000 people), Ignored a decision from the Supreme Court to restore Habeas Corpus, Closed over 300 newspapers in the north, sent the army to destroy the presses at several northern newspapers, sent marshals after the U.S. Chief Justice for trying to enforce the Supreme Court's decision on Habeas Corpus, sent the army to arrest the entire legislature of Maryland. Not saying he didn't do some good things too, emancipation proclamation was good, Greenbacks was a great idea. I'm just saying, it's not hard to make the argument that he was a tyrant. Not sure how much I can blame him for Total War against the south which starved many civilians or if that was just Sherman.

History has always been kind of fascinating to me. I guess I would say, don't blame the method by which people carried out racism, because that same method gives voice to the average voter and can be used for good.

Or maybe, just maybe, people don't agree with you?

Completely agree with you

Completely agree. It's nuts how so-called conspiracy theorists and 'truthers' have fallen for the Trump thing. Divide and rule the masses and ensure the plutocrats get richer and richer from making the majority suffer through poverty war etc.

Please tell me more about this"right way" socialism can work that you speak of

He can’t. It never has and never will.

Where are you getting all these quotes I never made?

How about you answer the guy I replied to, who was asking for examples, instead of putting words in people’s mouths, quoting things they never said or asking questions about specifics that were never brought up?

Can you give them again? I think they got lost in all the side comments.

I guess I missed those examples.

Maybe one day when you grow up a little you’ll learn how to have a civil conversation with people who don’t agree with your worldview.

You can attack back without calling someone a “dumb shit”. If anything, you discredit your own argument once you result to personal insults.

Attack back with winning arguments.

I’d say what we got here in the US is working pretty good.

I agree.

Really?

Well, I definitely prefer Capitalism to Socialism.

Universal healthcare paid for by the state, subsidized or free education paid for by the state, subsidized housing and subsidized daycare paid for by the state, those and other similar benefits are all completely workable "socialist concepts" that exist in any number of countries with a better quality of life than the US has.

Countries like Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Canada, and Germany. Shows just how little you know about the rest of the civilized world that is in fact more civilized than you are.

What exactly have you done to help the poor and suffering?

Good, I do the same. Although it's your decision I hope you don't give it to charities they're the biggest scam out there. I'd rather give it to someone in need on the street. At least it won't go to some executive making $100k /year at the red cross.

😂😂😂

Good, I do the same. Although it's your decision I hope you don't give it to charities they're the biggest scam out there. I'd rather give it to someone in need on the street. At least it won't go to some executive making $100k /year at the red cross.

My next question is why do you assume that no one that thinks about conspiracies helps the less fortunate? Painting with a broad brush, no?

I'm not here to change your mind but I'm not sure about the right wing support. Maybe since this sub has been taken over you see more righty stuff but a few years ago most didn't like either party. They noticed the 2party system is a joke. I'm certainly not affiliated with either side.

Anyway I completely agree with you about sharing the resources to help starving and homeless people around the world. I've considered a Max wage as well. This disease called greed is insatiable and it needs to be fixed.

So I am working my butt off for the business I own, but you think my assets and income should be capped? No, it doesn't work like that. If you want something, get off your butt and work for it. Make it happen.

Freedom to give, freedom to choose to give, not being told to give to is freedom.

If I work for and earn $1 billion, and that’s what I want in life - is that not freedom? Is a government more benevolent than your typical billionaire?

Except that there is a finite amount of money in the system and the extraordinary amounts that some manage to accumulate is always at the expense of millions of others that need and could use a few dollars more just to make ends meet.

You tell me why Warren Buffet gets up every morning and all he can think about is how to make even more money when he's got far more than he could ever possibly spend or use?

You might as well put him and Gates and the others like them around a Monopoly board to occupy their time because real life is nothing more than a game to them and their accumulated wealth and money is simply a way to keep score.

They are only able to do that because the system permits it and once you have a substantial surplus of money there are countless loopholes that have been created in that system that allows them to not just avoid paying taxes but to pay even less than any ordinary working person has to pay. As Buffet himself admitted, he pays less in taxes than the receptionist who answers the phone in his office does.

As long as there are lazy people who sit on the couch all day, there will always be people working 120 hours a week to outpace everyone else. Sometimes these people keep going until they’re billionaires. Who decides what is excess? Who decides what my money goes to?

The majority of rich people were born that way and able to make even more money by hiring investment bankers, tax lawyers, and the whole nine yards and without having to anything like "work" for that increase in their fortune. That's why the top 1% has more wealth and property than the bottom 90% do and they also have more wealth and property than the next 9% below them who also have more wealth and property than that bottom 90% do. Do you get the picture yet?

Over two thirds of all of the wealth and property is concentrated in the hands of only 10% of the population while the 90% scramble for the remaining third.

And guess who has the most money to donate to the politicians and political parties to get them to pass the kind of legislation that protects their wealth and their ability to make and keep more of it than any of the ordinary people can?

No on complains about the extravagant wages the CEOs and top brass in most corporations make but suggest a minor increase in the minimum wage and all hell breaks loose

So why hurt that 1% that desires and can achieve billionaire status?

Why hurt the 90% that only desire to have an ordinary life with reasonable amount of quality to it so that 1% and next 9% can each have more than they all do put together?

If you reduced their fortunes to 1/2 of what they are you could literally double everyone else's earnings and double the quality of the lives they could afford as a result and you could eliminate poverty, hunger, and homelessness.

But dear, oh dear, what would become of Bill Gates if he could only be worth 30 billion instead of 60? I suppose he'd commit suicide being impoverished to that level and we couldn't have that now could we?

Lots of people work hard to gain their fortune.

Then you don't want freedom at all. Freedom has built the greatest country in the history of the world. We live in paradise compared to most of the rest of the world because we are free. Our freedom is the reason everyone tries to come here.

or you just have a more sophisticated propaganda department telling you so...

(you know obama legalised propaganda on the populace, right?)

A lot of conspiracies have valid claims but always seem to get hijacked by both of the political spectrum.

It seems like a large majority of conspiracy theorists understand that both sides are run by an outside influence but can’t seem to set aside personal beliefs or prejudices.

Socialism can't work and The US helps more people than almost any other country. We also bomb the fuck out of too many people but that's a different issue. The truth is most countries are pretty shit to live in compared to the US. You're touching so many topics lightly that require some nuanced observations. As far as the south's enslavement goes, when the US was originally the 13 colonies, we can think of them as individual countries who all reported to England. The way of life varied a lot from state to state. Slavery was something that the south's economy relied on and they believed they could have their way of life and northerners have theirs. They believed they were fighting the second american revolution, fighting a new oppressor. Of course we can look back now and recognize how terrible is was for the slaves but we can't change history. Slavery was a thing for tens of thousands of years if not more, and it was ended here like 150 years ago. Gotta think about history on a larger time scale.

Smaller government works with our system because of the checks and balances. It's the reason we are a republic and not a true democracy. True democracies always end up voting themselves to death because as it turns out, some people do know better than others.

Without enough money, the poor are not free. Depends who and where and why they don't have "enough" money.

The "elites" are trying to pull Americans apart. And sadly, it's working.

I say they are separate issues because they are handled by separate people. The military bombs and the people give charity. One can not do the other, so they are separate. Imperialism is wrong many times but we do need to be the "man of the house" on the world stage. If we are not then it will be Russia or China, who will cause more suffering than we will. We did not ruin Venezuela. Their currency is worth less than the paper it is printed on at this point because of their "president" and socialist policies. The dude keeps fucking with his economy whilst having no clue how to repair an economy. None of this is propaganda, it's a fact. You will call it propaganda though because it doesn't suit your "socialism can work" narrative. Socialism will never work because it is unfair; end of story.

I care more about the ideas (socialism) and less about the idiots that implement it. Norway's economy is not doing well because of it's socialist policies, it is doing well because they have more free trade than we do. They are more capitalist than the US in many ways. One leaders of Denmark came out and said that people should stop pointing to the nordic countries as places where socialism worked because they were bleeding themselves dry and they had to start scaling back their socialist policies. There are many reasons their economy worked so well and the socialist aspects are the ones they are needing to change now to stay afloat.

If by "either way can work if done correctly" you mean there needs to be balance between the two, then I agree. I think we would disagree where that balance is though. But if you mean full blown socialism, then no, it won't work. Socialism's goal is communism and communism is inherently unfair.

If the responsibilities of others is forced upon you, then you are not, and cannot, be truly free. America can do more for all other nations by reestablishing our love of liberty and true free market capitalism than by any amount of illegal taxation or generous donation. Lead by example. America isn't supposed to be a democracy; it's a representative republic. And to repair our representative process, we must rid the traitors, the infiltrators, from our governments, councils, and agencies, police forces, and schools.

How dare you call names like that that when you know only too well that like any good little "Capitalists" their first loyalty is to making as much money as they personally can and helping corporations make as much as they can given the power of government authority that was placed in their hands.

The current notion of, freedom, is freedom to simply kill those dern pesky poor people, never mind that they might be your parents or grandparents or neighbor or co-worker's family.

Great wealth only exists with mass poverty and mass poverty creates social instability, but our leaders while lying about freedom form themselves sincerely believe we are all under the digital choke hold and they don't have to worry about the consequences of the divide, the few who have and the many who do without.

Op, that is what you are seeing in the comments, belief that freedom means being able to stomp anyone with less economic status than oneself.

freedom is an illusion.

Are you free to print trillions of dollars like the people who enslave you?

are you free to fish without a license?

are you free to drive without a license?

Are you free to use psychedelics to explore your consciousness?

are you free from the need of food?

you can't even collect rain water or feed the homeless.

Money isn't the be and end all. As Sir Michael Caine said in regards to Brexit, I would rather be a poor master than a rich servant. I know he is wealthy himself, but I'm not and I feel the same. It's understandable that people are angry about the Kalergi Plan and want out of the corrupt EU. Like Nick Griffin said in the EU parliament, I also think we should also help to get the bankers off of less developed countries backs so they don't feel the need to flee.

I agree with you for the most part though, I don't believe in the false left-right paradigm myself either because politicians on both sides both answer to the same shady groups like Bilderberg, Common Purpose, Zionists etc. I also think the Alex Jones thing was staged too. Israeli publications have already called him anti-Semitic which is absolutely insane because he is pro-Israel and won't even discuss Zionism. It's like they have censored him to set the bar so low so that anyone can get censored for Anti-Semitism. People will downvote me I'm sure, but the ADL plays a massive role in policing so called "hate speech" on the internet.

Tyranny can come from business as surely as it can come from governments.

My issue with the majority of the conspiracy crowd, is that they make so much noise about wanting to keep their freedom. but you know what? If you're not going to use your freedom to help the extremely poor and suffering people of the world, then it's all pointless.

says who? because we might not agree with your idea of what freedom should be used for we dont deserve it? what are you trying to say?

We've been forced into living in civilizations. Thus we no longer can live the hunter gather lifestyle we once did.

-not true, many people live offgrid/hunter gatherer lifestyles

IF we're going to live in a civilization, then everyone deserves to have the basics without needing to worry about how to get them.

• according to who? this is just an opinion

In today's world basics include internet, phone, a home, food, transportation.

• I'd tend to agree, however this could get complicated too (i.e. who determines what is a basic necessity? and what factors are used to determine it?)

  If you wanna live in a system, and not hunt/gather, then yes, we all should have those needs met. That's what I'm saying.

• if you want to? didn't you just say we are forced to?

No need, if the governments wealth is in fact the peoples wealth though, as it should be :o

If however you mean a lifetime earning cap on politicians, then sure why not, though i am sure that they would just circumvent it with more shady shit

The majority of rich people were born that way and able to make even more money by hiring investment bankers, tax lawyers, and the whole nine yards and without having to anything like "work" for that increase in their fortune. That's why the top 1% has more wealth and property than the bottom 90% do and they also have more wealth and property than the next 9% below them who also have more wealth and property than that bottom 90% do. Do you get the picture yet?

Over two thirds of all of the wealth and property is concentrated in the hands of only 10% of the population while the 90% scramble for the remaining third.

And guess who has the most money to donate to the politicians and political parties to get them to pass the kind of legislation that protects their wealth and their ability to make and keep more of it than any of the ordinary people can?

No on complains about the extravagant wages the CEOs and top brass in most corporations make but suggest a minor increase in the minimum wage and all hell breaks loose

So let’s try communism! Lol