It’s the same stupid idea that spread in Europe during the 20th century...

I dont believe the holocaust was faked bc there are millions of pics of camps unless they are fake but he isnt lying when he said Jews run the world

The pics of camps just prove that there were camps...not that there was a holocaust.

The pics of emaciated bodies just prove that people died in the camps at the end of the war due to Typhus outbreaks and malnutrition...not that there was a holocaust.

destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.

That's the definition.

There was a holocaust during ww2. Whether it was against the Jews or any particular group is up for interpretation but going by the definition there was a holocaust during ww2

So every war was a holocaust, and there was a holocaust of the German people during and after WW2. Is that what you're saying?

I'm referring to the mainstream definition of the holocaust, which is specifically referring to the supposed industrialized, systematic extermination of Jews by the German National Socialists during WW2.

You seem smart so if that's what the definition says then it seems that way doesnt it? And I know what your saying and I'd like to hear why you don't think there was one against the Jews. I'm not being a smart ass I'm genuinely interested in your perspective

I think that the camps were really just work camps, and that there was no plan to exterminate Jews and others. There were no gas chambers used to exterminate people. Basically, many people lied about many things (mostly the Soviets) in order to further demonize the Germans and to hide their own crimes.

Some people did die in the camps due to outbreaks of Typhus and due to malnutrition. The conditions in the camps did become very poor as the Germans began to lose and as their supply lines were being destroyed by the Allies. Ironically, Zyklon B was used for delousing in order to prevent outbreaks of Typhus! So it was used to save lives, not to kill people. The pictures you have probably seen of emaciated bodies are probably mostly victims of Typhus (Anne Frank and her sister both died of this disease), not victims of gassing or anything else.

I don't believe this because I hate Jews or anything, its just that this is the only explanation that really makes sense given the evidence that exists if you really delve into it.

Interesting and never thought of it that way but could make sense. Are you familiar with the Madagascar plan? Lends some credence to what your saying. They originally wanted to ship the Jews to Madagascar and there wasnt a plan for mass extermination. Look at it this way too. They were in camps and starving perhaps if they did gas them in mass they were doing it as a sort of "putting them out of there misery" deal. Idk I like looking at every angle haha

Yea, the Madagascar Plan is pretty wild, isn't it? They might have actually gone through with it had war not broken out. And have you heard of the Haavara Agreement? This was an agreement where the Nazis allowed any Jews to leave Germany for Palestine, with all of their wealth in tact. Interestingly, the word that the Nazis used which many claim meant to "exterminate" the Jews really just meant to get them out of society and their country, not to kill them.

And I guess anything is possible, but there are many flaws with the gas chamber theory. For example, a study found that there was Zyklon B residue in the delousing chambers, but not the supposed execution "gas chambers." Also, these chambers were found to have doors that are not air-tight, a pretty serious design flaw. Also, the accounts state that guards would move the bodies shortly after execution without protection, but that is impossible because the guards would get poisoned as well. And there are many other problems, and no actual evidence besides heresay.

Never heard of that but that's interesting too. So many things in life I've been questioning so I honestly wouldnt be surprised if the scenario we are talking about turned out to be the case

I can't believe people downvote you.

Haha oh well I guess they dont think ww2 happened in general. Although I had a hood convo with freon noone else spoke up so idk what they're thinking

Why is it antisemetic to question the official narrative?

And, why is it that the official "6 million" number has been completely debunked, yet they do not teach that to children in school or inform people that the number was significantly lower?

And one more question. Why is it a crime to question the Holocaust in Europe to the point that in France they're not even allowed to put what is/was said on official court documents, nor speak of it in court either?

There's many more questions, but I just wonder why this religion (and it is a religion not a race) is the only religion no one is allowed to bash.

anti-Semitic vs apathetic

Word of advice: Use a dictionary when you don't know what a word means

Ever tried to bash Islam? Charlie Hebdo did...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

The response was brought about by apparent terrorists and isn’t condoned it supported. Very different to the response being from the governments and legal systems of the world.

For real? So Islamist leaders worldwide don't want to destroy the west? In what world do you live?

The Islamist leaders are supposed to be the terrorists. They are demonised for their primitive viewpoints. The west uses its own legal systems which it claims to hold to a higher standard of morality to suppress valid questions. Yes that is a huge difference.

Well if you're open to it, there is (imho) a fairly comprehensive video on yt called, "the greatest story never told" and it has a lot of info. Plus there is also David Irving. Anything like this is ALWAYS going to be controversial, and people will either say, "Nah, that info is BS," or," I believe every word of it!" Ultimately if you want the answers you're going to have to look at both sides and weigh it.

Though, there is a lot of info out there these days. And, if you of the mindset that is open, and seeking truth...you''ll find out that most everything you learn is the opposite of what you have been told.

There is a reason why this subject is demonized. Deeper than 'they slaughtered a whole religion!'

Nazi Base 211
Vril Society
Thule Society
Honiboo

Some people are unfortunately more equal than others.

I always wondered if the true Jews with the real blood lines were sacrificed in order fulfill the talmud prophecy of 6million deaths. Then the Khazar imposter converts with no blood connection would come in and take their place. The next step was to receive Israel from the British to begin the Zionist regime. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I believe that number 6 million was the prophecy. It was something like: you will receive the promised Land when you return minus 6 million.

That's why that number has been pushed so hard when many believe it was significantly less.

Sure thing!

This has always been my opinion. Sure there was mass murders, but 6 million is mathmatically impossible to have been killed at the detention camps. Just an opinion, but am sure the reain of down votes and insults will follow....

No you're correct. To kill 6 million in 12 years there would have had to been a murder, cremation, every 1.5 minutes from his first day in power to his last day in power. Not only that, look into the population of Germany during those years. They would have literally had to kill almost 60+% of the total German population.

There is a reason why they don't want the masses to know about what REALLY happened.

Exactly. They would lose the "pity card". The massacres were horrendous, but lying about them or misrepresenting them demeans them to me and many others.

Also why were the detention camps outfitted with hospitals, swimming pools, baby facilities, leisure courts, and theaters? That's what I have learned anyway.

Havent heard any of that.

Here presents both sides for your consideration:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/01/dumbest-holocaust-denial-icon-auschwitz.html

Thanks for the link. The Jewis/Nazi relationship during ww2 is something I have largely steered clear of. It has really never peaked my interest even though I have many family members fight and even die during the war. Its a no win scenario as far as finding an opinion. If you say "sure it was wrong but not as bad as they say it was" you are branded as a nazi sympathizer white racist. If you side with the Jews then you are branded as being a Jewish slave doing their beckoning.

Ain't that the truth... Similar to FE vs RE... Stay away! lol Hold your belief and keep your mouth closed is what I try and do.

Am American. Have been dealing with racism rhetoric with minorities since birth. Its a never ending pile of bullshit from both sides. You are right, just step clear of the "shitnado" and keep your opinions unchanged and private.

OK shut the fuck up dude this thread isn't about how you feel about people freely expressing how they feel about you. It's about the holocaust.

In the real world people are gonna call you a dumbass for saying things only dumbasses would say. People are gonna call you a racist for saying things that only racists would say. And yes people are gonna call you a nazi for saying things only a nazi would say. Get over it.

This isn't a safe space for you to whine about how a stranger on the internet called you anti-Semitic for saying "well Hitler wasnt that bad." grow some skin.

Triggered much?

that's a lame way of thinking about things.. "I dont want to learn more about insert subject here because someone might call me a insert demeaning term here"

Keep your insults to yourself buddy. I said its a subject that never really interested me.

I'm not insulting you, I'm saying your logic is flawed

No it's not. No one is saying don't learn more on the subjects. What we're pointing out is that once you state what you believe online, other assholes create a stupid fucking shit show because the internet offended their tender senses. I research everything I can. But it doesn't mean I'm going to talk about it on line and take the berating or ignorant comments of total asshats too often. If people want to know the truth (like me) then they can by looking at both sides.

WTF, why do think that there‘ve been only 10 mio. Germans at that Time?! It was around 78 mio ...

I stand corrected on that. I should have double checked first. 80 million was the population in 1940. or 7.5% of the population. Which is still pretty large if you ask me.

But you are right

Keep in mind that they brought People ( Not only jews, But also handicaped, gays, communists) from all over Europe like netherlands, france, belgium, poland etc) to the camps ( or killed Them Right at the spot) so to put in perspective you have to put the 6 mio number in comparsion to the population of half Europe at the Time...

No, he's wrong and so are you honestly you should feel very bad for even thinking that this argument makes any logical sense.

This is your arg: "it is mathematically impossible to kill 6 million people in 12 years because that means in average they would have to kill one person every 1.5 minutes."

That not a fucking argument. You just restated your claim. 1 person every 1.5 minutes over 12 years is the same fucking thing as 6 million people over 12 years. I cannot even articulate how stupid this statement is.

Why is it a mathematical impossibility to kill 6 million people in 12 years? People have killed many more in a much less, especially the nazis.

The Nazis killed 8.6 million Russian soldiers from direct military activity in 4 years. The nazis killed an additional 10 million Russian civilians due to direct military actions alone. The fact that you think 6 million is not mathematically possible is unbelievably moronic.

I just want to emphasize again how stupid this comment is because I want to make sure you understand that humanity has gotten dumber because you took time to write this down.

Well the fact that you're a dick goes without saying. But I'm sure you're aware if it. And no, it's not wrong. The Russians that were killed in the battlefield were not cremated, and hidden from the public. They were simply killed on the battlefield. The large scale death program WAS impossible to implement because they had never found most of the supposed Jewish bodies in the camps. It's not like they were just shot or liked all over the place. Supposedly they were methodically gassed and burned and disposed of. So, you need to think as well. But you know what, you believe what you want to believe, and I'll believe what I want to believe. My research has taken me here, and you can say humanity has gotten dumber all you like. The fact is, the lies I'm not here to give a goddamn lecture on the fucking subject. I was simply talking about I have learned. If you want to know more about the calculations you can find it online. Anyone can if they want to look deeper into it. So fuck you and your negativity, Dick.

OK now you've shifted the argument lol. Before you were saying that the the average rate of deaths over a 12 time period implies a mathematical impossibility. Now you're saying it's practically impossible which is only slightly less stupid. The only "calculation" you did was divide 6 million by 12 years and then converted to minutes. Again, I cannot put in orders how stupid this argument was.

I want you to explain to me why it's a mathematical or practical or whatever you wanna call it now impossibility for 15000 to 20000 camps all stocked with as much as 50 ovens each to kill and cremate one body every 1.5 minutes per year.

In case this wasn't clear, I don't want to assume you're a dumbass. I generally give people more respect than that. So I assumed that you're actually quite intelligent, and you know that you're making absolutely moronic claims. I'm assuming that you know you this and you're just an asshole knowly spreading lies. So yea I'm gonna be a dick to you because I think treating you like a dumbass who actually believes these arguments would be more disrespectful. There is no one who can be so stupid and also be able to function independently.

Sources against the "fake holocaust" hypothesis: Any book written by an actual credentialed historian of WW2.

Sources promoting the "fake holocaust" hypothesis: 1000's of YouTube videos, Facebook pages, tweets etc.

Unless you go to the original sources yourself you can never be sure about anything historical. Then there's the problem that you probably don't speak, Dutch, Yiddish, German etc and even if you did, you probably don't have the expertise to understand the context behind the materials. That's why we're really left with little choice but to either trust the people who have dedicated their lives to systematically studying the sources, or to dismiss it all as part of a grand conspiracy.

What is certain is that most of the people promoting holocaust denial on YouTube etc are not going to the original sources, but are extrapolating from second-hand material and do not have the academic background to understand that material in any case.

Did you know how Anne Frank and her sister died in the camps?

Anne Frank has been proven a fraud.

Alright. Prove it.

Don't just make an unsupported statement.

https://www.deviantart.com/der-himmelstern/journal/Anne-Frank-Diary-Fraud-Finally-Admitted-586457430

Wow! I never knew any of that information about the Anne Frank diary!

1) father admitted as a co-author 2) two distinct styles of handwriting 3) written with a BIC ballpoint pen before it was supposedly available

Ahh the good old appeal to authority.

Here's the thing, if you question the Holocaust you will be ridiculed and ostracized, so that you will no longer be considered an "actual credentialed historian of WW2." Its a catch-22.

Ahh the good old appeal to authority.

That's not what "appeal to authority" means. Don't you think that there are people who know more about certain subjects than others? Who would you trust to give advice about music theory; the person who spent 10 years studying violin at the conservatory? Or the guy who just started teaching himself 2 months ago from YouTube videos?

Here's the thing, if you question the Holocaust you will be ridiculed and ostracized

Sure, that's because in order to demonstrate that the Holocaust never happened, you would have to present something that overturns the huge mountain of evidence gathered over the last 70 years. If you started claiming that you had just invented a perpetual motion machine, you'd probably be laughed out of a physics conference too.

No, you are using their status as a "credentialed historian" as an appeal to authority.

Don't you think that there are people who know more about certain subjects than others?

Absolutely. And those are the people who don't simply rely on the history written by the victors for their analysis. So your so-called "credentialed historians" generally know less than those who have truly studied the period with an open-mind, and have looked at all contemporaneous evidence, no matter which side it comes from.

mountain of evidence

There's that line. Holocaust truthers love to use that one. There are mountains of bullshit, but not mountains of evidence. Why don't you point to just one piece of evidence that proves the Holocaust happened?

You don't know what the phrase "appeal to authority" means. That's okay, we can move on. Here is a link to a page with a video showing Einsatzgruppen forcing Jews to stand in a pit and then murdering them. That's one piece of evidence.

You don't know what the phrase "appeal to authority" means.

lol, no that would be you. You aren't appealing to the arguments made by those "credentialed historians" who push the victors' historical revisionism, but instead you are appealing to their status as "credentialed." This is a textbook appeal to authority. I hope that you can understand this, and yes let's move on.

Here is a link to a page with a video showing Einsatzgruppen forcing Jews to stand in a pit and then murdering them.

Great, you provided an example, which is more than most! First, I wonder what your definition of the Holocaust is. Clearly the acts of the Einsatzgruppen qualify in your eyes, so the definition must encompass more than just the supposed industrialized killing of Jews in the camps.

I wonder how much you know of the history of the Soviet occupation of Latvia. I'm sure you are aware that the National Socialists saw the Soviets, the Bolsheviks, as their arch-rival. They saw how they brutally murdered traditional, conservative White Christians throughout Russia and Eastern Europe. They also knew that the Soviet leadership was predominately Jewish, and that Jews overwhelmingly supported the Soviets (even in Germany and throughout Europe).

So back to Latvia. Do you know what was happening in Latvia just prior to this video?

Here are a few examples.

In August 1940, Latvia was annexed to the USSR. Liepāja became one of the most important Baltic ports; thousands of Soviet troops and their families settled in the city.

They call 17 June 1940 to 22 June 1941 the "Year of Atrocities" for what the Soviets did to the Latvian people.

The Soviet occupation culminated on 14 June 1941 when a mass deportation of civilians from Latvia to distant areas of the Soviet Union took place. A total of "15,424 persons, according to latest figures, were arrested and sent away in boxcars unsuited for human transportation". Among those deported were "minor children and babies, most of them died on the way or from cold or malnutrition in their settlement areas in Siberia". Many civilians were "brutally murdered in Riga and many other places after the beginning of the war between Germany and Soviet Union", on the 22nd of June 1941, as the Red Army retreated in disarray.

Handwritten instructions by Soviet Commissar of NKVD Simon Shustin, dated 26 June 1941, on a list of arrestees: “Because of their social dangerousness shoot them all”

Now, who exactly do you think these people targeted by the Einsatzgruppen actually were? You might have been under the impression that the Einsatzgruppen just went into Liepāja to round up the Jews and execute them. This would be understandable because it is the mainstream narrative, however, it is wrong.

The Einsatzgruppen were targeting those who had committed atrocities against the Latvian people, and those who had aided them. That is no Holocaust, that is war.

Lol btfo

lol, no that would be you.

Nope. It's you.

An appeal to authority is deferring to a well known PhD physicist on geopolitical matters.

What isn't an appeal to authority is deferring to a well known PhD physicist on quantum mechanical matters.

WEW you're just straight up wrong, a cursory google search could have saved you some embarrassment

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Argument from authority (Latin: argumentum ad verecundiam), also called the appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy. The appeal to authority relies on an argument of the form:

A is an authority on a particular topic A says something about that topic A is probably correct

How is that logically false, especially since the word "probably" is included? An expert on a subject is probably correct in regards to the subject in which they are expert. How is that incorrect?

Regardless, that's not the argument being made.

The argument being made is that the entire body of work done by nearly 100% of professional historians has come to the conclusion that the holocaust did indeed happen.

That's most certainly not an appeal to authority, by any definition.

An expert on a subject is probably correct in regards to the subject on which they are expert. How is that incorrect?

Its not incorrect, but when you are using that to try to prove something (ie the Holocaust) happened, it is not an argument, its simply an appeal to authority.

You continue to misuse the term. You're arguing that one has to provide their own evidence on every subject on which they speak. One cannot be an expert on very many subjects, period, so one isn't allowed to defer to the expertise of others? Do you know medicine, or do you go to a doctor/ER? Do you know law, or do you go to a lawyer? Do you know auto repair, or do you go to a mechanic. Do you know quantum mechanics or do you defer to physicists. Do you know the finer points of history, or do you read the work of historians?

It was a war. One atrocity does not present a holocaust.

The real holocaust that has actual evidence that it happened was the Japanese holocaust. The U.S. bombing of civilian cities that turned at least 60 of them into firestorms followed by the atomic bombing of two more Japanese civilian cities.

The Jew holocaust is most probably fake. Concocted from hearsay and forced confessions from the systematic torture of captured German soldiers which was documented by the red cross as torture.

I am not antisemitic. But there are plenty of people in Israel that hate the same people that they are protected by. Especially Christians. They promote mass migration while at the same time turning every refugee or illegal immigrant away from Israel. I also don't know if it is true or not but Hitler wanted to originally at least, mass deport the Jewish population out of Germany. Prior to Hitlers rise the Jewish population in Germany boycotted everything German made and had the populace in major cities to do so. There is Zionism and Orthodox. I think I am more on the side with the Orthodox Jewish faith. Either way it was a fucked up situation and no person or persons should ever have to go through such struggle and strife because of a groups beliefs.

I absolutely hate the fact that people need to preface their comment with " I'm not anti-Semitic" when simply discussing something about Jewish people. It's sad and crazy that it's gotten to this point.

Honestly I'm tired of people trying to label you a racist, sexist, antisemite or whatever is trending this week. I don't care anymore, call me whatever you want. I'm tired of walking on eggshells.

These people's opinions have zero value to me and I'm completely unfazed by the hatred which rules their lives. Nice post btw and apologies for the mini rant.

Good! People assume I am nazi cause I shave my head and am tall and white. I embrace my stereotype and just say "okay sure."

I know that experience very well. I'm very tall and I shaved my head earlier this year. People could not get out of my way fast enough. They would stumble and avoid eye contact, it was really funny to me.

Well put!

How you do you do fellow goyim?

It was faked, according to the Red Cross that inspected the camps at the time (and never once mentioned gas chambers or mass executions in 1000+ pages of report) said that only ~300,000 people total died in all the camps (both Jews and non-Jews).

The "Final Solution" being a plan to exterminate the Jews is fake, there was no such program.

So yes, the Holocaust was a hoax, believe it or not. Its probably the biggest hoax of all time.

most of r/holocaust is dedicated to this viewpoint ( ie holocaust being propaganda).

It was a massive occult ritual to endure the creation and existence of Israel.

Holocaust means burnt offering in Greek. Doesn't get more clear than that. They sacrificed millions of their brothers and sisters for a bit of success in the material world. All for what? 70 years of prosperity? The psychological damage to the people of the Jewish religion was more detrimental than the measly scrapings they got from the holocaust industry.

Something is up right here. An entire holocaust denial thread with no zionist shills brigading. Hmmmm....

I was pretty surprised about the upvotes in the comments, but I found this thread under the controversial sorting option.

First off, it's interesting how many people here have ignored your request for more evidence, and just given their "informed" opinions.

Yes, the holocaust happened, and while the official death tolls vary, the Nazis definitely murdered millions, and their own evidence proved it after the war. Here are a few sources to get you started that I'm sure the anti-Semites and nuts around here will criticize:

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10008193

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394663#2

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/holocaust-remembrance-day/.premium-6-million-where-is-the-figure-from-1.5319546

I'm friends with a Hungarian scholar who had his whole village wiped out; his story of survival is terrifying, and I know it well. Months of hiding quietly on a farm. He then moved to Israel, joined the army - and to this day, he'll readily admit that Israel has some serious problems with abusing its power. Make no mistake, Israel has lots of power, and there are many successful and influential Jewish people - but they don't "run the world".

There are a lot of anti-Semites out there; they're quite loud where they can remain anonymous, and they certainly flourish on this sub in particular. Israel should be properly taken to task for its discriminatory policies and abuse of the Palestinian people and their land, but they're a key ally in the region for the USA, so they're allowed to get away with literal theft and murder. The middle east is brutal and ruthless, make no mistake about it, and Israel has little patience for those who want them all dead, which is pretty much all their neighbors. So it's a complex situation, with no clear good guys, and everyone a little villainous.

Search YouTube for David Cole.

The pics of camps just prove that there were camps...not that there was a holocaust.

The pics of emaciated bodies just prove that people died in the camps at the end of the war due to Typhus outbreaks and malnutrition...not that there was a holocaust.