I don't know if its CIA specifically but the government is definitely involved.

Hubbard was part of the OSS and left RIGHT during the split from OSS -> CIA.

Was he? I never knew that.

Love or hate Scientology, Hubbard's an interesting dude. I love that a man who has written written more fiction than anyone else has a religion.

If nothing else, it offers hope that anyone can change the world I suppose!

Can we get the Church of Roddenberry founded yet?

no he wasn't. he was in the Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard

We can't know for sure. Though I will admit the CIA is the most likely culprit.

Ha. Most effectively economical rebuttal I've seen in a long time.

Yeah.

This might be what the OP is thinking of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

People can believe in flat Earth theory just fine without mind control, so I doubt it.

Flat earth is also a psyop

Yo dawg, I heard you like conspiracy theories, so I made a conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theory.

Scientology uses blackmail. They break you down in those sessions and use what you've told them as blackmail.

They also hold your family as hostage.

Pics or it never happened.

Check out "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath" they interview several people who have lost their friends and families because the "church" forces its members to stop talking to anyone critical of the church.

Or check out "Going Clear" by HBO.

Thanks. I got a lot of down votes, but I genuinely just wanted a link :)

If I recall correctly, they also force women to get abortions. I believe they did that to unwed mothers within the group.

Do you have a source on that? I've never heard that one.

It's only specifically for those within the Sea Org.

I'd love a link on that.

I live near the Mecca of Scientology, in Clearwater Florida. The reality of what goes on is weirder than some of the theories. People following you back to work after dropping off something a member of the Church ordered. Having P.I.s walking the streets of downtown CLW mixing in with random passerby to ensure no one is out there to “sabotage” the Church. City Hall being infiltrated by Scientologists(which is right across the street from Flag). Building after building owned by the Church, staged as being lived in but is empty, or having all windows white papered so you can’t see inside. Strange things

I’m from Chicago and have been down here for a couple of years now. There is a lot of weird stuff that goes on with the Church of Scientology that is just bizarre

I've read some strange stuff about them. Just be careful, stay safe, and do not join them!

I live near the other Mecca in Hemet, CA and there is some scary stuff that goes down there. If you stop anywhere outside the property on the main county road, their “security” will come within minutes to ensure that you leave. My dad’s motorcycle broke down and the “security” came out to him and told him to keep moving. My dad was like WTF? I’m broken down. I can’t leave. They kept pestering him until my dad called the cops on them for harassment. They are absolutely out of control.

Also, the way that they trap people into this horrible cult is disgusting. One lady took a trip to a local Wal-Mart (with the babysitters, of course) and literally escaped out of the back doors to get away from them. Scientology is so controlling and creepy.

Walmart story source?

Leah Remini’s show “Scientology and the Aftermath” covered this story.

Honestly one of the best breakdowns of all the crazy connections L Ron Hubbard had is [https://soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode-261-l-ron-hubbard-part-i-grub-hubbard) Last Podcast On The Left episode. It's three parts I believe

I hypothesize as time goes on and IQs drop, Scientology will grow to be a very formidable religion

Why are IQs going to drop?

Because we’ve become a bunch of jerries thinking we’re the smartest humans ever.

article

article

tl;dr - millennials r dum

Just a google search. I’m a millennial and y’all r dumb /s

It says the decline began with people born after 1975, and the millennial generation started in the early 80s. The article was over 288 characters, so I guess you lost focus before you got to that part. 😜👍👍👍👌👌👌

You’re one of those millennials eh? ^joke

I was born in 1975, at the peak of the Flynn effect. I, and everyone else born that year, are all literal super-geniuses. Zach Braff, Tiger Woods, Tara Reid, Bradley Cooper, Danica McKellar, and 50 Cent were all born that year. Need I say any more?

Shutup ya boomer

lmfao did you just refer to 50 cent as a super-genius?

Jerry of *Rick and Morty* fame?

Too bad there's no mention of IQ-reducing environmental toxins.

That tends to happen when you think in decades, or even centuries, while the people you want to control are thinking in singular years, or worse...months, or, “just get me to payday” bi-weekly.

You have to be able to afford to think like a maniacal psychopath before things get clear.

Their numbers have been shrinking for years unless I'm mistaken.

Meh, pretty hard to get past that paywall, imo.

I dunno, while Scientology is still very much in the public mindset and for some reason people, even if they think it's ridiculous, still give it the time of day, the "church" is in serious trouble. Their membership is way down, and continuously falling, and eventually they're going to run out of money. They're just lucky that they can still con the shit out of their members, and have some rich folk/celebs still supporting them.

I hypothesize as time goes on and people grow ever suspicious of objective truth in any fashion in favor of their 'beliefs' (in whatever cause/theory/goal/agenda), lots of things will become very formidable. Society will not be one of them.

Fun fact. El Ron and Jack parsens, creator of the he nasa jpl were buds.

Fun fact 2: el ron, jp, and aleister crowley were buds

And Walt Disney. What cast of characters. And I'm the crazy one for not believing a word of nasa bs. One day you suddenly realize the world is in a Scientologist type trance but way more powerful and way more ubiquitous and that's the "norm"

My life has been a blend of Plato's cave, inception, and Truman show all mind fucking me in a big ol gangbang.

Sex magicks

I have been thinking that too, lol. “Don’t believe what you see and hear out there! Just keep looking at the cave wall. Trust us. It’s better this way!”

So do you think the earth is flat?

I don't know, is it?

...im asking you. LMAO im guessing you downvoted me becuase you do. delicate much?

We don't live on a spinning ball. That's a Jesuit concoction same with the big bang Mr box pounder. I try to stay away from religious bs even if it's dressed up as science.

Its a "yes or no" question, you keep deflecting from it lol. Do you think the Earth is flat?

I don't know what shape it is. Might be a simulation as far as I know. But it's not a spinning ball rotating around the sun.

Could it not be a simulation and also be round, or flat? Couldn’t the Big Bang be part of the simulation?

No because there is no visible or measurable curve. And the earth does not move, Michelson Morley. Aaaand again, big bang and the globe is a Jesuit bs. I don't believe in what Jesuits tell me. You are more than welcome to.

Whatever shape it is, it feels like it's some kind of prison or training ground, so nobody is going anywhere anyway. At least not physically.

We're not going anywhere and I like this place. Unless you know of a pandora like place with luminiferous plant life and floating rocks then I'm good right here.

Well, according to the people that claim to know these things, life with the absolute or on higher densities is certainly much nicer than this.

What's you're proof

Michelson Morley experiment proved earth is motionless. Einstein came with special theory and ebolished the ether. Sagnac proved ether existed. Einstein scrambled and came up with general theory. Suddenly you have black holes and work holes and dark matter and dark energy and time travel and slew of other nonsense all because of a pesky little experiment by Albert Michelson and one Edward Morley. But you're not going to learn all that reading the wiki on it.

ebolished

Do you mean Abolished?

Yes.

So you admit you dont know what shape it is, yet you somehow know it isnt a sphere? Lol solid Flat Earther logic right there.

Yes. Just because I call bullshit on Jesus and Muhammad doesn't mean I know if there is a God or not. I can call bullshit on a model without having a working one myself. I know it's hard for people to wrap their heads around the concept of I don't know

And I'm the crazy one for not believing a word of nasa bs

That may be because you ignored objective physical reality. Do you think space is real?

You're a catholic. I have nothing to say to you

Again with the assumptions? You do know words have more than one meaning don't you /u/showcdp ?

Perhaps you should research it?

Go away

So you can't support your statements with facts? You are free to mute me but if you do so you will not see my responses to your posts while others will.

Oh noooo

Outside perspective. You're clearly being a troll

I am being a troll because I don't accept your definition of what words mean?

Nice try. Troll is hungry this morning. Do you believe in Bigfoot?

Before I answer any of your questions you need to address your attacks on a word in my user name.

Oh come on. It's totally believable there are invisible people hanging in the clouds

So you didn't look up the definitions did you?

You a lame.

You a lame.

I am not sure that is a complete sentence.

Crowley thought L Ron was a turd. But He thought Parsons was the real deal.

Correct, he knew el ron was a charlatan.

Was that before or after their menage á trois sex magic attempt to impregnate a woman to create a literal demon baby?

Wait, what's this now? Can I get a link?

Oh wait, I remembered wrong.

It was Parsons and Hubbard, following something Crowley had written.

https://books.google.com/books?id=6wVBx9yriTUC&pg=PA137&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://www.google.com/amp/s/motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/vvbxgm/the-last-of-the-magicians

Thanks for the info.... That is truly bizarre

And Ron basically stole all the ideas of Thelema and used them for his own gain by giving them a veneer or sci-fi

Crowley was sodomized on top of a mountain. Sex magick is crazy.

Don’t knock it til you try it

No way. I don't need chronzon in my life right now.

Fun fact. El Ron once shelled Mexico during WWII.

I guess that's why IT'S backed down on challenge to their tax exempt status.

Look up Operation Snow White. No mere cult could pull off something of that scale.

I have hypothesized in the past, that Scientology is a new form of secret society. So much about them seems off, and their true purpose is shrouded in smoke. This is typical of Intel (Reindeer) Games.

If you haven't seen Leah Remini's show about Scientology you need to see it. They have very obvious markings of a cult. Not that they couldn't be a secret society, but I think they show obvious signs of a cult.

I think everyone of these "Illuminati" cults is for grooming/recruiting people for a specific purpose. Where do most Scientologists work? (at least the upper levels) Hollywood. Where do most Mormons work? Intelligence agencies. I'm sure that they have other front group religions/organizations for other professions out there, assassins, etc...

Good points. I see intel agencies, secret societies and assassinations as being cut from the same cloth. I could be wrong, but there are many parallels and indicators.

Hubbard just wanted to make money and have people worship him. Dan Cummins Timesuck podcast and The Last Podcast on the Left both do deep dives into scientology that I highly recommend.

Similar to Jonestown

Scientology threatened to sue every member of the IRS and they stopped going after them out ofnfear

You know they scary when the IRS scared of them.

A/B testing the religion the force on us when they pull the fake alien invasion.

It's not.. well, sorta. CIA is intermingled with Satanic practices.

Aleister Crowley and Ron Hubbard were part of the same satanic occult group; which Hubbard broke off to start Scientology.

Essentially, he practiced what they learned from the Templars: organized money.

CIA will co opt and let any religion flourish as long as it doesn't question the state. Once you go full MLK Jr. : pew pew@!

http://www.lermanet.com/images/hubbard-insane-says-wife.jpg

They're all warped.

I agree that scientology is a fucked up mind control scam cult, but I think every post here deserves some form of evidence other than random speculation, otherwise it's just a "nutty conspiracy theory". Bring something to the discussion.

Read Lawrence Wright’s book “Going Clear”. How people buy into that Bullshit is beyond my understanding.

It seems L. Ron Hubbard was in Oakland --the territory of MKULTRA and then went to LA. The first Church of scientology was founded in Washington DC.

That conbined is very suspicious.

(does his debut in Hollywood fit with Charles Manson? I suspect Manson also was a MKULTRA experiment)

Yes, there’s a 3 hour documentary about it called Spellcasters. It’s a must watch.

"clearly". Definitely not clearly. unless you found a classified document from the CIA or something juicy, I wouldn't say "clearly". Nothing is clear on here.

Think of the most average person you know. Probably able to be fooled right? Yes or no, either way half of the world us dumber than that person.

Some ideas and info about scientology and a few other things.

• Was based on a book (Dianetics) written by L Ron Hubbard... who was a science fiction author.

• There was another book called Stranger in a Strange Land, written by Robert A. Heinlein

• Like Dianetics, Heinlein's novel contained lots of religious themes and story elements.

• There's a story about a bet between the two where Heinlein and Hubbard thought they could start a new religion based on something they wrote.

• This all happened during the early 1960's when the MKUltra program was in full swing. Dianetics came out in 1950 and Stranger in a Strange Land was published in 1961.

Now let's take a short break and talk about Charles Manson. I know this sounds a bit weird and off track, but it will make a bit more sense later.

Manson's early life was a bit unfortunate. Some of the things he went through will seem very obvious to anyone who hangs around this subreddit a lot.

From wiki...

Manson's family moved to Charleston, West Virginia, where Manson continually played truant and his mother spent her evenings drinking.

She was arrested for grand larceny, but not convicted. After moving to Indianapolis, Maddox started attending Alcoholics Anonymous meetings where she met an alcoholic named Lewis (no first name), whom she married in August 1943. As well as constantly playing truant, Manson began stealing from stores and his home. In 1947, Maddox looked for a temporary foster home for Manson, but she was unable to find a suitable one.

She decided to send him to the Gibault School for Boys in Terre Haute, Indiana, a school for male delinquents run by Catholic priests. Manson soon fled home to his mother, but she took him back to the school. He spent Christmas 1947 in McMechen, at his aunt and uncle's house, where he was caught stealing a gun.[14]

After that, he got sent away a few more times...

He was eventually caught, and a sympathetic judge sent him to Boys Town, a juvenile facility in Omaha, Nebraska.

And again...

He was sent to the Indiana Boys School, a strict reform school. He later claimed that other students raped him with the encouragement of a staff member.

And again...

Manson was sent to Washington, D.C.'s National Training School for Boys... His case worker deemed him aggressively antisocial.

Gee, I wonder why?

Anyways, Manson spent more time in jail during the 1960's... now as an adult.

From another article

In 1963, while a prisoner at the federal penitentiary at McNeil Island in Washington state, Charles Manson heard other prisoners enthuse about two books: Robert Heinlein’s science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) and L. Ron Hubbard’s self-help guide Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health (1950). Heinlein’s novel told the story of a Mars-born messiah who preaches a doctrine of free love, leading to the creation of a religion whose followers are bound together by ritualistic water-sharing and intensive empathy (called “grokking”). Hubbard’s purportedly non-fiction book described a therapeutic technique for clearing away self-destructive mental habits. It would later serve as the basis of Hubbard’s religion, Scientology.

Manson was barely literate, so he probably didn’t delve too deeply into either of these texts. But he was gifted at absorbing information in conversation, and by talking to other prisoners he gleaned enough from both books to synthesize a new theology. His encounter with the writings of Heinlein and Hubbard was a pivotal event in his life. Until then, he had been a petty criminal and drifter who spent his life in and out of jail. But when Manson was released from McNeil Island in 1967, he was a new figure: a charismatic street preacher who gathered a flock of followers among the hippies of Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco.

So here we have the connection between Manson and the work of 2 famous sci fi writers. And this is the part where I state my own premise... and it goes like this.

This was the era where MKUltra research was ongoing. The people involved were part of a small, select group. These would have been researchers, psychiatric experts and intellectuals and most of them would have known each other.

I propose that these people might not have talked about the work they were doing, but they would talk to each other to discuss some of the ideas and theories on which their work was based.

So the core principles on which MKUltra was based got incorporated into the work of authors like Hubbard and Heinlein... then made it out into the world at large through their books.

And Manson soaked it all up like a sponge while he was in jail. Then, as soon as he got out of jail, he put his newfound knowledge to the test.

Manson won them with a doctrine of communal bonding: They would be a family and share in all things, including love. Manson’s made-up religion was a cut-and-paste invention that borrowed from many sources. As The New York Times notes, Manson’s philosophy was “an idiosyncratic mix of Scientology, hippie anti-authoritarianism, Beatles lyrics, the Book of Revelation, and the writings of Hitler.” But the sci-fi component was pronounced. Stranger in a Strange Land provided the Manson family with its rituals (water-sharing ceremonies), terminology (“grokking”), and promise of transcendence (Manson’s followers hoped that, like the hero of Heinlein’s novel, they would gain mystical powers). The dream of mind triumphing over matter was also the sales pitch of Dianetics.

You should do yourself a favor and read the rest of the article as well. Heinlein and Hubbard were no angels... and they had some interesting hobbies and acquaintances...

Heinlein was in an open marriage with Leslyn, a poet and script editor. He had a habit of encouraging his close male buddies to take Leslyn as a lover. As Hubbard would later marvel, Heinlein “almost forced me to sleep with his wife.” Sharing his wife’s body was a form of male bonding for Heinlein, and it served as a precursor to the communal orgies that he imagined in Stranger in a Strange Land, which helped the members of his imaginary religion form group solidarity.

Hubbard and the Heinlein also shared an interest in the supernatural. Together with their friend Jack Parson, a rocket scientist, they investigated the teachings of the occultist Aleister Crowley and tried their hand at black magic.

So these are the kind of men that wrote the stuff that Manson got interested in. For all the conspiracy theorists that believe MKUltra incorporated the use of occult practices and involved a secret group of occult practitioners who all knew each other... this story supports that idea.

I think Manson unknowingly put together a do-it-yourself version of MKUltra. He intuitively used the principles he got from the books to gather and reprogram his followers.

He subjected them to stressful conditions, isolated them from contact with their previous friends and lives. An he made them participate in all kinds of intense sensory experiences (sexual and psychedelic).

After a few months, their old personalities broke down and he was able to reprogram them to do and be someone completely different. When you look at old news coverage of the Manson murders, people always seemed to be amazed at how Manson's followers were so weird. People couldn't understand how they could do the things they did... or how they got so brainwashed.

I think this is because they didn't recognize what they were looking at. I don't think even Manson realized what he had done or how he managed to do it. He learned how to make a mind-weapon and then he used it for kicks... like a 3 yr old kid with an RPG.

There's going to be a movie about Manson (Once Upon a Time in Hollywood) coming out soon. I bet that none of this will be in that movie when it does.

This is an interesting take. Thank you for that. Gives me something to chew on.

I was already of a similar opinion. I thought that Manson was an MK Ultra project used to assassinate the hippie commune mentality of the 60s. He indeed used the same techniques MK Ultra did; isolation, psychedelics, verbal and sexual abuse.

It is also very possible that he was a vagabond subject with an unforseen outcome (like Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary, Robert Hunter, the Unabomber) but with a more beneficial outcome for the Agency.

I tend to agree. After reading about the ranch where they lived and its tires to Hollywood and the government,bit starts to seem like someone's project and not an organic cult at all. The Manson murders effectively ended the peace/love/anti-war movement. There's even some evidence that the Sharon Tate murder was a hoax. And Manson's media appearances from jail over the years have been suspect as well.

Thank you. I also am not one to think that the psychadelic 60s were an intentional psyop to "dumb people down". I think it just backfired. They underestimated those that they chose and those people used their tools against them in a great way.

After I learned Timothy Leary was CIA, the pieces started to fall into place. All the stuff about tuning in was a giant distraction to keep people from recognizing their oppression and taking meaningful action. Also, Laurel Canyon.

Are you referring to that article people always use to say Leary was CIA? Because all he does is mention it. Which is entirely my point.

He may have been mk ultra. That's understandable. But his, and many other's outlook was not what the Agency was looking for.

Not sure which article you mean, I've seen several articles and a couple videos where he discusses it. I think you'll and I are mostly aligned, though I tend to think anything that distracts, dumbs down, or makes the general population easier to control and manipulate is exactly what TPTB want.

Waaaait, is this the same Boys Town that was implicated in the Franklin cover up?!?!?!

I'm giving you a world exclusive;

Why is a Scientology compound on the west coast of the US, buying and hoarding high-end experimental electronic components for a super-computer/quantum computer?

Also can someone confirm here that Scientology is pushing to have subliminals put in to Tom Cruise movies?

Interesting. Got more details or links you can share?

Scientology unfortunately infiltrated that 70's show

They mainly target celebrities when they're young - what easy targets. You've got people who have had by no means a "normal" childhood, brought in to auditing sessions which is literally just super expensive therapy, then because they feel better, they somehow associate the Ahha moment with the crap LRH made up. I think it goes many more layers than this but, I honestly think without the therapy sessions they wouldn't have nearly as many followers.

What a crappy post. Was expecting more than a couple of sentences. Why is this on the hot list?

The good stuff is in the discussions.

Yeah I agree 100%.

They were heavily advertising Scientology on MTV recently. They try to make it look young, attractive, and exciting. I roll my eyes every time the trash comes on.

No it is not obvious tied to the CIA. You should actually try to support your claim with evidence of some kind.

Complicated answer, but I don't think they have anything to do with the CIA, but I do think they're a "competitor group" of sorts, which is why the media despises them.

For years, they provided the service of being a protection racket for actors from the studio system, and gave them muscle....which was probably much needed, considering all that's come to light about Hollywood. However, they're far from the powerhouse they once were. Aside from Cruise, Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Jason Lee, and Juliette Lewis, all other celeb adherants are TV actors and extra. If anything, they've been reduced to a complete punching bag by the media. It's a far cry from the days 20-25 years ago when Time Magazine was terrified to even mention them, due to their infrastructure.

Another point worth mentioning is how hard they went to war with Eli Lilly, specifically over Prozac, and a number of Big Pharma companies and psychiatric bodies. All other housewife gossip about them aside, such as whether Tom Cruise uses them to shop for wives, or whether David Miscavige beats his staff, it's undeniable that for years they acted as an organized group that fought against abuses by the medical and psychology industries against the public.

I don't think they're "the good guys", I just think they're a "competitor Illuminati", if you will, with it's own aims and goals. You should read into how Hubbard spent decades being hounded by the IRS, CIA, AMA, APA, FBI, etc., and how the Church was told they would only receive tax exempt status after Hubbard was dead. Then speculate on whether it's because his true crime, in the government's eyes, was taking MK Ultra and going into business for himself.

If you haven't seen Leah Remini's show about Scientology you need to see it. They have very obvious markings of a cult. Not that they couldn't be a secret society, but I think they show obvious signs of a cult.

I think everyone of these "Illuminati" cults is for grooming/recruiting people for a specific purpose. Where do most Scientologists work? (at least the upper levels) Hollywood. Where do most Mormons work? Intelligence agencies. I'm sure that they have other front group religions/organizations for other professions out there, assassins, etc...

It says the decline began with people born after 1975, and the millennial generation started in the early 80s. The article was over 288 characters, so I guess you lost focus before you got to that part. 😜👍👍👍👌👌👌

Hubbard just wanted to make money and have people worship him. Dan Cummins Timesuck podcast and The Last Podcast on the Left both do deep dives into scientology that I highly recommend.

I don't know, is it?

Could it not be a simulation and also be round, or flat? Couldn’t the Big Bang be part of the simulation?

What's you're proof

Thanks for the info.... That is truly bizarre

So you admit you dont know what shape it is, yet you somehow know it isnt a sphere? Lol solid Flat Earther logic right there.