So it looks like the guy who jumped out the window later was only given 70 micrograms. Barely enough to even have visuals. I wonder if the LSD even really had much of an impact in that scenario.
Later reading (p 95 415) outlines a suspected Asian espionage agent who was given 6µg LSD per kg body weight. Given the average body weight in Asia is 57.7kg, this translates into 346.2µg, but could be as high as 500µg, a relatively high dose no matter how you look at it, and seemed to have some troublesome physical symptoms.
It's also worth noting that many of these individuals were subjected to stresses as well, and LSD is a substance which is very sensitive to set and setting. For instance:
"Stressing techniques employed included silent treatment before or after EA 1729 administration, sustained conventional interrogation prior to EA 1729 interrogation, deprivation of food, drink, sleep or bodily evacuation, sustained isolation prior to EA 1729 administration, hot-cold switches in approach, duress "pitches", verbal degradation and bodily discomfort, or dramatized threats to subject's life or mental health." (EA 1729 was the army's code name for LSD).
Just imagine this for a minute: Having no idea what LSD even is, you find yourself in one of the most purposely uncomfortable scenarios imaginable, whilst being deprived of basic human needs, receiving death threats, being constantly degraded, and otherwise mentally tortured by soldiers of an opposing army, on the peak of 400µg! God...the things our governments do behind closed doors...
It would be interesting to see how a person who has been dosed looks and acts.
You hear those stories about wealthy guys who come into their own house, and order their staff to pack up valuables which are then handed to whatever criminal dosed the victim... If you can't really tell if someone is on it, that's pretty freaky on top of the actual effects.
Yeah, I watched a story on that awhile back. Deliriants scare me way more than LSD ever could. At least with LSD, you can tell you're hallucinating and understand that what's going on isn't reality.
yeah they did. We actually only hear about drugs that weren't very successful for them. They tested out many, many chemicals and other processes and procedures.
1 does not getting the results we want? Give them 2. Not giving the results we want? Give them 4. They crazy. Send them to the asylum. Bring on the next patient. This is how they work. We won't know the specifics. Look into that Canadian "doctor" if you want to see how deep this sick fucked up rabbit hole goes.
I remember reading one such MK Ultra case where a subject was dosed daily for months. It actually surprised me because the brains tolerance to psychedelics skyrockets after as much as 1 dose. The effects would be diminished until at least a 1 week tolerance break, and even then it's hard to say since everyone's brain chemistry is vastly different.
I think it’s worth noting that the “subjects” didn’t know they were being dosed with anything and were just made to believe they were going crazy. Sure tolerances increase with time but we don’t really know any effects that might become of not know about the doses, and if the “once a day for months” was actually just micro doses or even placebos at some points. I can’t imagine being micro dosed one day and then being heavily dosed the next and then just having someone tell me I’m crazy three days later because of my behavior.
LSD is interesting as there really is a maximum effective dose which I believe is in the 650ug range. That's the most which can get past the blood brain barrier before being molecularly locked out for the next couple of days. Higher doses should be pointless but I'm sure that didn't stop the govt from trying.
There were so many experiments, they gave kids under 10yo milligram doses in some studies.
I don't have any sources on hand but its all out there if you look for it. Look up colleges/universities associated with MK Ultra, and keep digging in and you'll find a bunch of stuff.
29 comments
1 too-can 2018-10-11
good question. i am also interested.
1 doyka94 2018-10-11
Yeah I could not fined anything on google about it so Im trying here
1 angelkta7 2018-10-11
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/13inmate_ProjectMKULTRA.pdf
I found this on page
74
394
you will have to skimp through it cause its an old document.
1 HappyColored_Marbles 2018-10-11
So it looks like the guy who jumped out the window later was only given 70 micrograms. Barely enough to even have visuals. I wonder if the LSD even really had much of an impact in that scenario.
Later reading (p 95 415) outlines a suspected Asian espionage agent who was given 6µg LSD per kg body weight. Given the average body weight in Asia is 57.7kg, this translates into 346.2µg, but could be as high as 500µg, a relatively high dose no matter how you look at it, and seemed to have some troublesome physical symptoms.
It's also worth noting that many of these individuals were subjected to stresses as well, and LSD is a substance which is very sensitive to set and setting. For instance:
"Stressing techniques employed included silent treatment before or after EA 1729 administration, sustained conventional interrogation prior to EA 1729 interrogation, deprivation of food, drink, sleep or bodily evacuation, sustained isolation prior to EA 1729 administration, hot-cold switches in approach, duress "pitches", verbal degradation and bodily discomfort, or dramatized threats to subject's life or mental health." (EA 1729 was the army's code name for LSD).
Just imagine this for a minute: Having no idea what LSD even is, you find yourself in one of the most purposely uncomfortable scenarios imaginable, whilst being deprived of basic human needs, receiving death threats, being constantly degraded, and otherwise mentally tortured by soldiers of an opposing army, on the peak of 400µg! God...the things our governments do behind closed doors...
1 downisupp 2018-10-11
LSD is a terrible drug for MK projects.
1 doyka94 2018-10-11
They should have used dragons breath
1 Bodhisattva9001 2018-10-11
?
1 187ninjuh 2018-10-11
Scopolamine I think... Turns you into a highly suggestible zombie with amnesia.
1 HappyColored_Marbles 2018-10-11
I do believe Scopolamine is mentioned in the paper as well, IIRC.
1 187ninjuh 2018-10-11
It would be interesting to see how a person who has been dosed looks and acts.
You hear those stories about wealthy guys who come into their own house, and order their staff to pack up valuables which are then handed to whatever criminal dosed the victim... If you can't really tell if someone is on it, that's pretty freaky on top of the actual effects.
1 HappyColored_Marbles 2018-10-11
Yeah, I watched a story on that awhile back. Deliriants scare me way more than LSD ever could. At least with LSD, you can tell you're hallucinating and understand that what's going on isn't reality.
1 passivehate 2018-10-11
yeah they did. We actually only hear about drugs that weren't very successful for them. They tested out many, many chemicals and other processes and procedures.
1 cullpeppe 2018-10-11
Varying amounts...experimental.
1 Bodhisattva9001 2018-10-11
You literally just made that up lol
1 cullpeppe 2018-10-11
They were experiments. Genius.
1 invictus_excelsis 2018-10-11
1 does not getting the results we want? Give them 2. Not giving the results we want? Give them 4. They crazy. Send them to the asylum. Bring on the next patient. This is how they work. We won't know the specifics. Look into that Canadian "doctor" if you want to see how deep this sick fucked up rabbit hole goes.
1 _TyrellWellick 2018-10-11
I remember reading one such MK Ultra case where a subject was dosed daily for months. It actually surprised me because the brains tolerance to psychedelics skyrockets after as much as 1 dose. The effects would be diminished until at least a 1 week tolerance break, and even then it's hard to say since everyone's brain chemistry is vastly different.
1 ShrimpSandwich1 2018-10-11
I think it’s worth noting that the “subjects” didn’t know they were being dosed with anything and were just made to believe they were going crazy. Sure tolerances increase with time but we don’t really know any effects that might become of not know about the doses, and if the “once a day for months” was actually just micro doses or even placebos at some points. I can’t imagine being micro dosed one day and then being heavily dosed the next and then just having someone tell me I’m crazy three days later because of my behavior.
1 Hagriss 2018-10-11
That sounds fucking terrifying.
1 jasron_sarlat 2018-10-11
LSD is interesting as there really is a maximum effective dose which I believe is in the 650ug range. That's the most which can get past the blood brain barrier before being molecularly locked out for the next couple of days. Higher doses should be pointless but I'm sure that didn't stop the govt from trying.
1 vivling 2018-10-11
Well, these experiments are likely why you know the facts you've just written.
1 musicmaker 2018-10-11
Well then, it's settled. The experiments are completely justified.
/s
1 vivling 2018-10-11
Not at all what I said. :P
The LSD doctors were likely brought over with Operation Paperclip.
1 187ninjuh 2018-10-11
Timothy Leary was actually German?!
/s
1 2xx83 2018-10-11
Eeeeeh? The difference between 600 and a ten strip is night and day.
1 spistruth 2018-10-11
Relevant comment of mine from somewhere else - https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/9n5ap4/drugs_are_literally_gateways/e7ky6h7/
1 passivehate 2018-10-11
There were so many experiments, they gave kids under 10yo milligram doses in some studies.
I don't have any sources on hand but its all out there if you look for it. Look up colleges/universities associated with MK Ultra, and keep digging in and you'll find a bunch of stuff.