Everyone? Hardly. Polls around the world show that a large percentage do not believe the official conspiracy theory.

True. But even truer is that most people just could not care less, just as long as they get their share. Americans unfortunately live in a society of (distracted and sometimes downright dumb) consumers and not one of responsible citizens.

If you want to know why people are skeptical of the "9/11 truth" movement, you should target your question more towards those who exist outside of it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/a91y1/why_is_everyone_convinced_that_911_truth_is_such/

Because Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Joe Scarborough, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Al Franken and Keith Olbermann have commanded it.

As SovereignMan said, this is basically a US phenomena. The rest of the world is open to the idea that the US Establishment would allow 3000 of its own citizens to be murdered to further an imperial agenda. 9/11 truth is healthy skepticism outside of the US.

Americans, however, are subjected to the most relentless and insidious propaganda campaigns the world has ever seen. Turn off your TV for a few months, turn it back on, and you will see for yourself. It's really quite shocking.

Because Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Joe Scarborough, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Al Franken and Keith Olbermann have commanded it.

The reality of 9/11 truth is that 99% of people haven't given it more that a passing thought (an article here, news piece here), and therefore are unaware of what the conspiracy theories are and what evidence they're grounded in, or what the 'official' story is and what evidence its grounded in. So your observation I would generally agree with as far as the general population, (they just don't care). Where I take issue is when that attitude/beleif is applied to people who actively dispute conspiracy claims. Pundits I enjoy (stewart, maher, colbert, matthews, kristol) all sound terribly uninformed whenever they address the issue of 9/11 truth (and many other issues). So when people say I'm a fox news watching neo con, obama lover, bush loyalist, or incapable of believing the government could be capable of such evil, or any other accusation in that vein, I find it personally infuriating. Or saying I'm brainwashed by the media, its nothing more than a talking point that avoids discussing broader issues of 9/11 truth/9/11 debunking, while displaying an attitude of smug superiority.

The problem with this theory is that there are lots of us who don't even own a tv, let alone venture into the wasteland of political junk, but we still don't buy into the truther stuff.

That... is probably the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. You said absolutely nothing, and I feel slightly less intelligent due to the infection of your words on my mind.

Well that explains truthers then, every time you guys talk each of you loses intelligence until you are a bunch of sheep following each other blindly in the night.

Welcome to the United States of Amnesia!

They aren't convinced.

Polls show a third of the American people, and half of the NYC populace, believe that the Bush administration was involved in 9/11, either they let it happen on purpose or made it happen on purpose.

Those behind the "this is bullshit" meme, are mostly government agents.

Those behind the "this is bullshit" meme, are mostly government agents.

Yes...and I'm beginning to wonder how many are on reddit.

Clearly some.

if they accept the truth, their lives become depressing. some of them enjoy calling people names like conspiracy nuts. apathy is cool.

Yes, it took me two years to even consider this might be true. But once I did and did a lot of reading, I found that the CIA and certain parts of the US government have done terrible evil for all of the 1900s.

We need our own Nuremberg trials. We can only be cleansed when we do.

BREAKING: Flight 77 (Pentagon): Data recorder says cockpit door remained closed throughout the flight:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/a8vbr/flight_77_pentagon_data_recorder_says_cockpit/

source?

If you need any more proof other than this, I don't know what more can be done.

This Link

source? (follow the link that i provided.)

blog != source

In this case, the blog references the actual source data of the flight data instructor:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XX44XLUH

So if you are an engineer, you can confirm the information yourself.

So yes, in this case, blog = source.

It seems readily apparent to you, does it?!?!?... If controlled demolition clearly took down both towers, how do you explain the fact that they collapsed from the point of impact and not from the ground up??? And, before you say 'black ops team' or 'planted explosives' - how did they know which floors the planes were going to hit (if they planted the explosives before 9/11), or how did they get into and out of an evacuating building with tons of equipment without being seen by all the cameras (if they planted them after the planes hit)?...

I usually try to stay out of this sort of stuff because there is really no hope in changing either of our minds on how the events of that day happened. The north and south tower did collapse from the top up, and they fell directly on top of the foundations. Of course the infamous wtc7 collapse from the bottom up in what clearly looks like a classic demolition I realised this when I first saw this video on that day, but still believed the official story until youtube became available. And Lets not forget who benefited most from the attack, the military industrial complex with wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and not to mention the continued "war on terror" that essentially allows bill of rights to be ignored, see the patriot act. Then there's the pentagon, flight 93, Dick Cheney, NORAD, NYFD, broken communication, and plenty more.

No, I do not believe the official story one bit. I do believe the truth will come out eventually, when the last remnants of civilization look back at our history to see what went wrong, and come to find out we sat around watching American Idol while our wealth/power/freedoms were brazenly stolen from us.

The floors that were hit were the ones that had their fireproofing upgraded in the previous two years.

Yes, you'd have to know pretty exactly where and when the plane was going to hit. Like L. Paul Bremer, the former Coordinator for Counter-Terrorism and at the time heading Marsh Crisis Management said it in a live interview just a few hours later, "there had to be some very good coordination".

The plane hit Marsh USA's offices exactly, but he makes no mention of this in the interview.

It's also notable that after resigning from his governmental position, L. Paul Bremer became a director at Kissinger Associates who's dealings with Osama Bin Laden voided Henry Kissinger from heading the 911 commission.

Interesting coincidences carry on as the same L. Paul Bremer is assigned as the American pro consul in Iraq and manages to 'lose' billions of dollars.

These are facts, not conspiracy theories. They do not prove a conspiracy or a crime, but make it clear this isn't just about some guys in caves wielding box cutters.

False dichotomy. You are saying that either the official story is correct, hook, line and sinker or the trade centers were controlled demolitions. Certainly there are many possibilities between those two extremes.

But part of shooting down the official story is providing a more accurate storyline. Saying that the official story is wrong but all alternative stories are wronger is hardly a clear indictment.

If you want to provide a middle ground then provide it.

You're putting the cart before the horse. So I'm supposed to know exactly what happened before a full and honest investigation takes place, but how am I supposed to know exactly what happened without a full and honest investigation?

exactly.

NO, it's all about dissecting the inescapable contradictions within the official story, and demonstrating (using available evidence that the official story conveniently ignored) that much of the official story is blatantly false. We can be damn sure what DIDN'T happen, and certainly with regard to many aspects of the official story we can be pretty sure what we THINK did happen, but that could only ever be speculative.

Only a new, independent investigation with full access to all government records & evidence AND subpoena powers, could possibly hope to give a definitive account. And that's what the vast majority of the Truth Movement are calling for.

So long as a more likely alternative cannot be provided (although I believe it already has, in this case), the theory with the least exposed logical problems must be the one selected. Of course, following this route, I'm quite sure you end up at the "controlled demolition/doctored news footage" conclusion.

Hang on, don't conflate the huge amounts of evidence supporting controlled demolition with "doctored news footage" - who mentioned that?! I'm not aware of any significant number of people believing that any such thing occurred, nor any evidence to support that assertion/speculation.

Watch the movie "September Clues."

Ah, well there's a lot in September Clues that is flawed and widely discredited, and as a result it's not a documentary that many people think highly of. Allegations of doctored news footage in particular are not unheard of (only a fringe minority believe they occurred) and not only there is no credible evidence to support such allegations, there is absolutely no need for the news footage to have been doctored anyway.

That reply was totally worthless.

How so? Surely you don't believe that all documentaries on 9/11 are equally valid? September Clues is not one of the worst, but it's hardly one of the best either...

I believe you're putting words into my mouth.

Well you're not explaining yourself at all so I'm forced to make inferences in order to try and understand you. However, if they are wrong and you have no intention of explaining your position then I'm wasting my time.

You do seem to be wasting your time.

Cover story. You say you're installing internet upgrades. Detonation wire can look like Ethernet wire. You perform upgrades throughout the building, moving businesses from floor to floor into vacant floors as you do the job over a series of months. You do what you need to, plant detonation devices all over the internal structure of the building, including, but not exclusive, to the point of impact. Once you have a precise location, you detonate starting there. Blame progressive collapse. Feed that that story from day one.

There you go. That's how it could be done.

Right, and just what type of explosive do you know of that can withstand a direct hit from a passenger plane (not to mention 90+ minutes of blazing inferno) without detonating until required?!?!?

Well, that's just an engineering problem. You can engineer any device to function within given requirements. You just give the requirements to engineers and allow them to be creative.

Let's see: One that could be done is shield the devices. One side could directly face the beam, while the other be shielded from the environment with steel, or whatever material you need to get the job done. It's not that hard to figure something out, given the requirements and a little thinking outside the box.

Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

And yet thermite is never used as a demolition agent for buildings...

Detonations started before the crash if you believe what folks in the basement of the first tower say.

When this is claimed witnesses form opposite towers are used in the chronology (witnesses in tower 2 used in the time line for tower one), or they observations (of time) are simply off by a few minutes. By looking at seismology records we can see that they mirror observed events far more accurately then people's recollection of a stressful situation.

Oh right, and it has to be completely stealth too (so those thousands of pesky live news cameras don't notice the explosions cutting the supports)...

Thermite doesn't explode, it ignites. Placed or even sprayed onto the center columns months ahead of time might do the trick. Also, in your earlier post, you assume the planes where flown manullaly into the buildings. But with remote control and guidance technology, they would be able to tell you what desk the nose cone would of hit. The first plane struck the server room of the WTC security company, owned by a Jewish guy. I find that a little odd.

Something major over looked by thermite proponents is that calculations have been done and they show thermite (even nano thermite) can't produced enough energyto cut beams (or even significantly weaken them) in this fasion. Greening called out Jones on this and Jones agreed.

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/active-thermitic-material-in-wtc-dust-t150-30.html

Dude, you're operating within the mindset that the planting of the explosions occurred during the evacuations. And unless you have X-ray vision, how can you honestly say that the core of the building didn't experience any sort of detonations during the collapse? All they have to do it weaken the core to guide the fall... it doesn't require that large an explosion...

It's hard to believe that something to terrible and that caused so much destruction was that unbelievably easy. Especially in America. That is why I dismiss all conspiracy related subject matter on the issue and am thankful I didn't have to be there first hand to see it.

Detonation wire can look like Ethernet wire.

So why in clean up did the rescue dogs and bomb sniffing dogs not find any det cord? Why did none of the FBI investigators find bomb parts/det cord? Why did none of the clean up crews find det cord? Why did the bomb sniffing dogs at the entrance ways not detect this det cord?

It's plausible explanation is that they were simple blown up. If someone found something, all that was needed was a good cover story. Something like "oh that's just xxxx". And how could bomb sniffing dogs detect a cord? You seem to be thinking it's some sort of wire like in the cartoons where the spark moves across the room. I don't know much about detonation cords, but I presume that you can get the job done with just a copper wire that sends an electric signal to a device. It's a building full of copper wires. No dog is going to pick up on that.

Detcord.

Detonating cord (also called detonation cord, detacord, det. cord, detcord, primer cord or sun cord) is a thin, flexible tube with an explosive core. It is a high-speed fuse which explodes, rather than burns, and is suitable for detonating high explosives, usually pentaerythritol tetranitrate (PETN, Pentrite).

Well, fine. Though it isn't implausible to just pick something else that can do the same ultimate job. I know it's a stretch for some people to show a hint of creative ability (obviously you're not an engineer, or if you are, you're a rather obtuse one) I don't think it's a stretch to think that a regular wire can send a signal to a device to cause it to detonate.

We are talking about multiple devices (dozens/hundreds), and theoretically miles of copper wire (the more wire, the more resistance, and the more power required). So it is 'possible' but in order to have sequenced explosions you are going to run it to problems due to both due to speed and power requirements. Just because you can create a scenario does not make it plausible, or practical.

ETA: Copper wire wouldn't withstand the impacts and ensuing fires, which was the main point being addressed in this comment thread.

And again, you are thinking small. Though buildings are big, the scale at which copper resistance would produce failure has to be much larger. And the "power requirements" wouldn't need to be that much. Just a signal could do. The ignition could be triggered by a simple switch.

And again, the explosives and corresponding network of wires could be protected. And like Christmas lights that continue to operate when you pull a light out in the middle of the row of lights, they can be wired in such a way where even the destruction of another side could allow the overall system to continue to work. You just need a little creative wiring. And it's not that hard if you know what to expect.

wireless

I was about to say that. Hell, you could just use the normal electrical system, if you were, say, in charge of the security of the building.

i think science is advanced enough to blow up shit any way we want...

Just like I expected - downvotes without answering that simple question...

The point of impact was chosen beforehand, the plane's autopilot guided it directly into the selected impact area. The detonation sequence was built around creating that illusion that the collapse originated around the impact floor.

Surely with computer controlled demolitions they can program a successful sequence in less than an hour making impact anywhere easy to appear the source. No one likes to discuss what the disaster control bunker (OEM -23rd floor) in wt7 was used for, with its birds eye view, or if it was destroyed to disappear something other than the obvious SEC, enron, fbi financial docs everyone assumes was the target in a building that wasn't hit by a plane.

Upvoting for one of the most solid questions I've seen.

a maintenance crew can do it, if the upper manager is on it, on after work hours, also the second tower "collapses" (clearly explodes) from the top floor; that breaks any physic law. and since you mention point of impact thats exactly were the "collapse" should have started but did not

i guess people its afraid of the implications of this being true, on their minds set more than anything else.

[deleted]

Yeah, building 7 is really a huge problem isn't it.

you are observing psy-ops

Two planes bought down 3 WTC towers, what more explanation could you ask for? Move along people, nothing to see here.

didnt they find plane debris at the pentagon?

[deleted]

im just saying, if what many truthers believe is true, that the pentagon was hit by a missile, then there should be NO evidence whatsoever. this is clearly not the case as we can see several pieces

[deleted]

Plane hitting wall

[deleted]

no plane vaporizes on impact

plane hitting wall OF A NUCLEAR POWER STATION, of course it would vaporize!

So its not impossible for a plane to vaporize. The plane didn't completly vaporize, there was debris found. Keep in mind that this section of the pentagon was reinforced in the months before the blast, so although it may not have been 'nuclear power strong', it was reinforced to with stand impacts/bomb blasts.

No. No engines were found, no evidence of the wings are visible. Google for images of the crash site. There is no visible evidence of a plane whatsoever, except a charred black area of grass..

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Well, they did find 3 of the 4 black boxes at ground zero, but apparently whatever was in them is too sensitive to share with the public so the official story is that they weren't recovered.

There was some debris found but there is much controversy as to whether it actually belonged to flight 77. The engine parts that were found appear much too small for a 767.

cruise missile

Conspiracy theories are set up to be outrageous sounding so that people feel they have no choice but believe the official stories entirely.

Case in point, the H1N1 virus. If people are led to believe either they must believe it was an engineered disease designed for the New World Order to control world populations, or it's nothing to be suspicious of at all, most people are going to take the second. They'd rather be wrong than get painted in a corner with the nut cases, despite the obvious fact that the manufacturers of vaccines are pushing a product that can't be sold without public panic. Creating public panic is unquestionably a crucial part of their business plan...but a serious public debate cannot happen on the subject. The second someone questions anything at all they are automatically part of the tin-foil wearing loonies.

The same with 9/11. Here we have the co-chair of the 9/11 Commission saying they were underfunded and lied to. We have the chief counsel of the Commission saying they were lied to. We have the most secretive Administration in history, willing to lie about anything (see Iraq WMDs for instance) supplying all the information. Any reasonable person would conclude that 9/11 was never sufficiently investigated; there is no other possible conclusion.

But as long as anyone who questions the official 9/11 story is considered a nutcase, the general population will be content believing in a report which by no objective means is completely accurate.

Also, it's important to a lot of people to have some level of faith in our government, and they are willing to ignore a lot of evidence to preserve that faith.

The H1N1 virus wasn't created to kill masses of people but to allow Obama to give his buddies billions of dollars for a 'cure'.

Everyone?

Dude. Propaganda says "everyone is convinced 9/11 truth is bull shit". They don't do propaganda that says that unless huge numbers (in fact a majority) believe we were lied to about 9/11.

You live in a place like the USSR or Oceania where you will be propagandized 24/7. You will be told crazy shit 24/7 and you will have to pretend to believe it.

1. Like the 9/11 heariings uncovered the full and unvarnished truth about 9/11.
2. Like it was some huge accident that we invaded and instituted a very brutal occupation (and have stayed since 2003) in Iraq, which didn't have WMD, cause they need liberating not cause they have our oil (which we've just forced them at gunpoint to hand over to us and which the permanent military bases we've built there will insure we keep).
3. That every phone call, email and web post must be monitored and stored 24/7 for your own protection, not as part of Total Information Awareness part III or IV
4. That these bankers just accidently keep giving themselves several hundred billion dollar bonuses every six months or so.

Are we "stupid"? No. Are we "afraid"? No Shit.

Was 93 headed for WTC7?

This was suggested as a theory by some since WTC7 which held the Secret Service field office as well as the SEC offices handling the Enron IPO probe, WorldCom, etc. Of course, the Enron IPO probe case was closed because the evidence was destroyed. Photocopies, anyone? Microfilm? Digitization and server backups? This the year 2001, not some prehistoric times.

Nobody would really care about the WTC7 being destroyed since no lives were lost in its collapse. Plane departure times being off would explain a lot of things being off, even the collapse of WTC7 being prematurely reported. All dressed up for the party and no backing out. However, to hit WTC7 with a plane would require you to take out the two towers in the same operation.

When you consider the erratic flight paths of the planes, the departure delay of the second one is a good theory for why the first plane took such a long detour. After the second plane was confirmed, they both took a direct route to Stewart AFB where they crossed paths at the same time.

This has been discussed before, but for two planes to cross paths is easy enough, but for them to cross a point at the same time requires a lot of coordination. If you're going to crash planes into buildings anyway there isn't any reason to coordinate such a meeting unless for some reason you're planning to swap planes for drones as suggested by the Operation Northwoods scenario. Stewart International Airport, formerly Stewart AFB and used for CIA drug smuggling, Iran Contra operation and even bringing in Bin Laden would be an ideal site for this.

Turns out that Stewart International Airport also was leased to a foreign company for 99 years, just like the WTC properties were leased to Silverstein. You'd think a lot of airports and properties are leased like this, but incidentally Stewart became the first US commercial airport to be privatized.

Wild fantasy? I quote from the Northwoods proposal, drafted up by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and sent to the Secretary of Defense...

An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

Here is one reason I believe 9/11 truther stuff is b.s. http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

I don't watch tv, so please refrain from ad hominem attacks about how I am brainwashed by such and such, and if you have a differing view then express it and we can debate.

http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

You don't believe the official story but CIT is all good? Seriously?

"everyone" isn't convinced of any such thing. Maybe too many sensational headlines??

I don't know if non-US viewers can get this but this ran last night

cannot be streamed outside of canada

Fuck, it's like they forgot that the w in www stands for 'world'.

ez http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5184940/CBC_the_fifth_estate-The_Unofficial_Story.S19E08.WS-PDTV.XviD.Ek

because usually they are self righteous, condescending, and un-scientific...hate to generalize but herd-like? really? why not just call all doubters "sheeple" and get it over with....

Seems readily apparent to me that flight 93 was shot down

This is true.

no plane hit the pentagon (more likely a cruise missle)

I was there. It was a plane.

all three WTC buildings were brought down by controlled demolition.

And this is where you really start going off the rails and into crazy land.

Here is the conspiracy. Bush and Cheney knew it was coming and let it happen. They shot down the plane over Pennsylvania because it was the right thing to do, but then they made up the bullshit "heroes" story to make it all warm and fuzzy for public consumption. The rest of the conspiracy involves agents of the government actively participating in this "bombs and missles" debate to make everyone that questions the official story look like a kook.

I was there. It was a plane

So how do you reconcile that the flight recorder data provided by the NTSB, which itself reveals (in independent analysis) that the flight path was different (different angle of approach compared to the official path), the altitude was much higher (nowhere near ground level), the speed recorded is WAY beyond the physical limits/structural integrity of what the plane could bear, and most recently, that the flight deck door (i.e. cockpit door) was not opened in flight (so how was the hijacking performed)...? If any/all of this is news to you, see here: http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2008/08/ntsb-flight-data-flight-77-could-not.html http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405

They shot down the plane over Pennsylvania because it was the right thing to do, but then they made up the bullshit "heroes" story to make it all warm and fuzzy for public consumption.

So you admit that many (if not all) of the phone calls (our only source for the "heroes" story) had to have been faked by the US government (some were recorded, so it's not just a case of family witnesses persuaded to lie on the record in the interests of National Pride)? And are you aware that Ted Olson's testimony has been completely discredited, including by the FBI themselves? http://pilotsfor911truth.org/amrarticle.html

Or that perfectly fine, and an acceptable conspiracy while anything else remains implausible?

You were there? It was a plane? rofl

What are your certifications? Ever seen a cruise missile?

Did you see the plane hit the pentagon? Plenty of people saw "a" plane, but from what I've heard, that plane flew -over- the pentagon, and then "something" travelling really, really fast hit the pentagon a few minutes later. That "something" was a cruise missile or something else -- not a huge commercial airliner. I haven't heard of anyone who actually saw a commercial airliner impact the pentagon.

If you think it's crazy land to believe WTC were brought down by controlled demolition, then it's readily apparent that you're the misguided one.

Well, you got it all worked out don't you. Good luck with that.

I stand corrected. lolz

If you're comfortable with it, it would be interesting to hear your account of what you saw and experienced regarding the attack on the Pentagon.

No thanks. I don't need the hassle from these assholes.

Government troll propaganda spambot detected

Yeah, I'm a troll but your the one following me around.

truthers need to dress better/be better looking

Ok. Removing this sub reddit from my main page. I believe that Bush and Cheney allowed 9/11 to happen, and that the government continues to let the talk of controlled demolition and missiles to continue because it gives them a very easy way to marginalize anyone that questions the official story. But I don't need this kind of abuse from you assholes. I have suffered enough as a result of those attacks. I don't need you horde of children who probably watched the attacks on television in your grade school classes belittling my experience and observations that morning. Bye.

Or are they just too busy masturbating to New Moon

Damn! How did you know about that? Did you follow me to the theater?

I'll be convinced that 9/11 was an inside job when I see evidence of it. Serious, good evidence. If such evidence does exist, I've never seen it on any website or in any form.

Remember, the United States government is awful at keeping secrets, really bad. We couldn't even keep the Russians from stealing the plans for the hydrogen bomb.

You don't think one person, especially someone in the FDNY or NYPD would speak out? You think people who lost friends and family in the attacks would keep quiet? You don't think one military guy would speak up and be the person who saved the United States from evil?

If the US government planned and executed the attacks there should be mountains of evidence, but instead there's not one scrap. Where are the blueprints of the drone planes? Where are the factories where they were built? Who built them? Are you telling me Boeing factory workers are in on the conspiracy?

Just think of who would have to be in on the conspiracy:

1. People who designed the dummy jets.
2. People who built the dummy jets.
3. People at private companies who authorized the financing of the dummy jets, hired workers to build them and authorized the factory space to be used for dummy jets.
4. Every last person in the administration, including previous Clinton staffers, secretaries, clerks and office workers.
5. Lower level military officers who would've received orders to launch cruise missiles at the Pentagon.
6. Private and specialists at the launch facility and at numerous radar stations.
7. Thousands of air traffic controllers and airport administrative personnel.
8. The entire NYPD, FDNY and the entire NYC government, including people who lost co-workers and loved ones in the attacks.
9. The private clean up crews at all four sites, including their supervisors and administrative personnel.
10. The thousands of investigators and administrative personnel at the FAA.
11. The owners and operators of the WTC, as well as their staffs, and hundreds of MTA officials and their staffs.
12. Demolition crews and their supervisors.

So, you're looking at at least 10,000 people who would have to be in on the conspiracy, many of whom would have loved to see GWB indicted for treason or impeached, many of whom suffered great traumatic losses in the attacks. And yet not one of these people has come forward with a single shred of evidence.

Think of the financing alone. From building dummy planes to wiring a building with explosives, how much would that cost? Someone authorized those payments. People in private companies would have had to keep records of the costs and accounting of where the money came from and where it was going. Yet not file has been produced. People always keep track of the money.

Not one written military order has been produced. Not one email has been produced. There has yet to be one single whistle blower or one accidental leak.

Not only would one of these thousands of non-government officials be highly, highly paid to come forward, they would be praised as a courageous savior. Plenty of governments across the world would love to see the US government embarrassed like this, plenty of people would still love to see GWB punished. Yet no one has come forward with any single piece of evidence or document.

I've looked at all the 9/11 "Truth" sites and their "evidence." It's all conjecture, circumstantial at best, and more often than not, it's not even evidence of a conspiracy.

Look at this site's Top 40 reasons to doubt the official story: http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

There's not one piece of evidence presented, just some conjecture.

When the 9/11 "Truth" movement starts actually presenting evidence, witnesses and solid details that could only be explained by a inside job, then I'll take them seriously. It shouldn't be that difficult with an operation that large, that expensive and involving that many people.

Give me evidence and I'll believe you. Until then, yes, it falls under "Bullshit."

If such evidence does exist, I've never seen it on any website or in any form.

LOL.

So, you're looking at at least 10,000 people who would have to be in on the conspiracy, many of whom would have loved to see GWB indicted for treason or impeached, many of whom suffered great traumatic losses in the attacks. And yet not one of these people has come forward with a single shred of evidence.

6 years ago I would have debated you, noting the several fallacies in the above claim. However, now I just put on the record that you added nothing to any evidence chain, or theory. You just bitch that your evidence diaper is soggy, and that we should "give you evidence" so you'll believe us.

I don't care what you believe.

If you are an honest researcher, there's vast mountains of perfectly valid and admissible evidence all over the interwebs, and I'm sure you could find it if you wanted to.

But you obviously don't, and as such my time is better spent working with people who have more honor and better credibility.

For real analysts: the fnord count is quite high in OC. Enjoy.

To be honest as the old saying "if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and acts like a duck, it's most likely a duck" goes almost everything doesn't tally up with the 'truth' that mass media was pushing.

You know the truth mass media pushes, you know, grab a burger, drink a coke, drive nothing but the newest vehicles, vaccinations save lives etc etc ....all the TV is good for really these days is the hard sell of whatever 'they' want you to buy.

Sorry I'm not buying.

You know, I just want to say to you guys, and I like /r/conspiracy, but seriously, I don't own a tv let alone watch televsion shows or venture into /r/politics or any other nonsense. Heck, I was living in the desert for a half a year shortly after '01. I'm one of the most vociferous anti-government people I know. Yet, I still believe that planes did indeed bring down the towers.

So please, if your questioning why there are people that think differently than you do, try to realize that ad hominem attacks on us are not the key to pushing your agenda. We are not all mindless sheep.

But you are ignorant.

http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

Educate yourself.

I'd like to suggest a more tactful approach then starting out with "But you are ignorant." I will not read your links because that is the approach you have taken. Sure, I may be ignorant of the material you wish me to read, but it still sounds like degradation. If you had just put 'Educate yourself' at the top then I would have gladly read your links.

That is basically my whole point with why you guys don't make progress, because for the most part people in this reddit resort to ad hominem attacks rather than have a civilized debate.

You deserve to be degraded if you're satisfied to stay ignorant just because someone called you out on it. If you think planes brought down WTC, then you have done zero research. Assuming you're a US citizen, that means you aren't performing your duties as a citizen. Thus, justified degradation and anger at you.

Perhaps, but I could say the same to the rest of this forum. Have you read the Official 9/11 Report? No? Why not. You are ignorant.

See, that argument doesn't really work.

I know that the 9/11 Commission Report doesn't even mention WTC7. Why would I want to read a document in full that I know to be a whitewash?

Ok now your question is a bit more reasonable. However, what if I consider your literature to be the same? Are we not at a standstill then?

The point is that you expect me to read your provided links without reservation, but you in turn refuse to read the opposing side of the story. Without rational debate on this subject, it shouldn't really be that surprising that so many people consider truther stuff to be bullshit.

Because of a lack of evidence. Everybody have seen the conspiracy theories, the blurry video clips and the findings of rust a hundred times, but all the evidence this far have been circumstantial. We need confirmed credible witnesses testifying under oath, concrete voluntary confessions and hard undeniable evidence. Everybody are innocent until proven guilt and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Blurry photographs and name calling will get you nowhere. A few minutes of tape recordings can be enough to take a president, but you don't have it.

I've got karma to spare, it's important that you guys realize this. And, yes I am of aware that the official story lacks evidence just as much. I'm not convinced of anything this far.

Circumstantial? There have been people sent to the chair with less evidence than we have about 9/11.

http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

What was the benefit, the motives, the outcome? If the US Gov't really did kill thousands of it's own civilians, why did they do it?

No, I'm not a government agent. I just really do not believe in the 9/11 truth conspiracy at all. I believe it gives the gov't much more credit than they actually deserve. For the most part the gov't is a bunch of incompetent pencil pushers, I do not see such a massive conspiracy as possible nor plausible. Nor do I see any motive.

Who said anything about "the US Gov't" ??????????

Also, we don't need a benefit, motive, or outcome to observe that the fairy tale that was told to us about what happened on 9/11 is false.

Some benefits: owner of WTC got insurance payout, the military-industrial complex (incl. Halliburton) got two new wars, etc.

Remember how after 9/11, the Dept. of Homeland Security was founded? That was partially because different branches of the government weren't talking to each other "very efficiently." I've heard that the FBI and CIA don't really interact all that much. I've also heard that the CIA has done a lot of shit without telling much of anyone.

That said, I don't believe in establishing a benefit, a motive, or an outcome when it comes to 9/11 truth. It's people who hypothesize about that shit that make the 9/11 truth movement seem like bullshit, because there is no evidence (yet) that any one particular person or entity was fully responsible. But there is a fuckton of evidence that the "official story" is bullshit.

Generally, most theories (of which there are many) that I have seen involve individual and groups being responsible, not 'the government'. The term ,'the government' has very little meaning without it being explicitly defined within the context of each theory, or rather hypothesis.

I would argue that most theories seem to involve the use of the "government" as a resource, tool, and/or cover by some group of individuals, interests, etc.

What is your impression with regards to the concept of government in these contexts?

[deleted]

Must be nice to prove arguments without any relevant facts or information.

Jesus you are stupid.

But you are ignorant.

http://www.ae911truth.org/flashmov11.htm

http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/nsa.html

Educate yourself.

I stand corrected. lolz

Perhaps, but I could say the same to the rest of this forum. Have you read the Official 9/11 Report? No? Why not. You are ignorant.

See, that argument doesn't really work.