We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

• Declaration of Independence

The Founding Fathers, by current standards, were terrorists.

I agree but how?

Revolution always works best. Try work within the system and you get nowhere.

Working in the system was always a nice idea, but everyone that went that way was submitted to the same corrupt influences and ended up switching teams.

Revolutions are bloody and the next one will be no exception. The issue is with the sedentary state the population has adopted. No will to fight and no stamina to sustain this costly process.

Tell you what - why don't you lead by example, instead of wasting time on reddit bitching that other people won't start the war?

No?

You want other people to risk their lives, but you personally value your safety?

Right......

I guess that makes two of us.

Nope, I don't want a revolution.

You're the jerk who wants other people to revolt on your behalf - risking their lives for your benefit.

I find it funny that no where did I say I wanted a revolution, I did, in fact, say that they were bloody and that no one would participate in them.

This reminds me of George H.W. Bush's comment that "if the American people knew what we have done, they would string us up from the lamp posts."

Where/when did he say that?

Sarah McClendon interview of George BushSr. in 1992 when he was involved in the Iran-contra fiasco

Source? I can find this in blogs and boards, but no source. Seems fishy.

"Sarah, if the people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." was supposedly the real quote, in reference to the Iran/Contra affair

From an interview by Sarah McClendon who seemed quite a conspiracy-minded gal, with good reason.

Sarah McClendon interview of George BushSr. in 1992 when he was involved in the Iran-contra fiasco

I always wondered what would make you string someone up? How bad did the gov fuck the people over? Must be pretty bad.

It's called the CIA.

Weed would be legalized, war criminals would be lynched and mainstream media would cease to exist as it does in its current form. Also, the whole world would rejoice, poverty wouldn't suck as much and fat mouth dick head texans like Alex Jones would be out of a job.

I like your reply. What I am interested in is; how other redditors see American getting from point A to point B.

A People Wake up.

B?

C Things are different.

A. People Wake Up

I suppose there are many things 'the people' could wake up from. The most important of which I would argue involves the current identity crises. If 'the people' were aware of the choice, 'even if they were only aware of it at a near-unconscious level', while contracting in trade/commerce with 'the people' that they are not lawfully required to seek limited liability status through legal fictions like the 14th Amendment US Citizenship. That they may as living men and women, as citizens of their respective States and through the national citizenship derived therefrom , through their own volition and under full liability, contract and carry on trade unmolested from a 3rd party interested intervener, i.e. the municipal corporations posing as the de jure governments. Furthermore, if 'the people' were to awake to discover the true liberty, freedom, and responsibility inherent in operating under full liability under the original jurisdiction and embrace such a status, the exchange would be almost immediate and mean nothing short of the dissolution of public contracts in favor of private and positive contracting law. This would render the majority of legislative acts, legal statutes, municipal ordinances, and various codes beyond enforcement as they are mostly rules only applicable to legal fictions of which 'the people' are no longer identifying their status as.

No more would be the fictitious jurisdiction attorneys operate under and properly seated judges would have to actually have a body of crime to hear a case. Simply put, no more victim-less crimes prosecution, which represents the absolute majority of cases today where you have the peculiarity of the Judge representing the STATE OF UTAH while simultaneously the 'victim' is the STATE OF UTAH. Hell, we might actually have 'the people' receiving fair trials, with actual evidence of harm and loss being presented.

Further, the implications of 'the people' operating in honor under the original jurisdiction of the National Constitution would have sweeping effects on political elections(especially involving senators), legal tender laws, private banking, commercial transactions and instruments, and what could best be described as a return of control over the accumulated assets of this Nation as accounted for in each municipal corporations CAFR.

We would not have to borrow money into existence from foreign banks at interest, but could borrow from our own bank the Treasury of the United States.

B. tl;dr

End the most recent bankruptcy proceedings of the corporate US circa 1929, setoff the national debt in its entirety to the original creditors and return the collateralized assets being held by the IMF and FED to 'the people' of the United States via the secretary of the treasury.

C. Things would be way different. Are we ready to operate in commerce under full liability, where your word is your bond, where if you promise to pay a man in performance of a contract and you don't, a court of record can make you pay, no discharging? Or is their system of limited liability, statutory law, and prepaid debt accounting something you can dig?

A will never happen as long as there is beer in the fridge, football on TV, and they can get a new car every 6 years.

spockturd made some interesting points... first of all, in order to awaken the masses, a whole lot of people who've never seen "the horror" would have to experience it first or second hand....

Picture storm trooper police men bashing in the idealistic minds of rebellious young adults....

B?

Mass protests, maybe even some rioting, i see no alternative... And this would almost have to be worldwide, not just the USA... one idea would be to blockade all trade routes, along the borders and the coast lines, with a focus on oil (and maybe coffee?)...

Stop business for a day, a week, if it could be done for a month or more i bet the whole system would collapse... For this you'd need millions of people, most of whom would be willing to give their lives for "the cause".

At the same time, we'd need millions to flood government buildings and corporations with the express purpose of stopping them from doing business, all while doing something extraordinary like shooting gov. officials and CEOs with divine love energy... in other words it will take a miracle...

I am all for putting Alex Jones out of work. David Icke too. SEE, ASSHOLE, THEY ARE NOT GODDAMN FUCKING SHAPE-SHIFTING REPTILIANS THEY ARE JUST THE POWER ELITE THAT CIVILIZATION HAS ALWAYS BEEN PLAGUED WITH.

Smoke some dimethyltryptamine (like David Icke once did) and you may well change your mind about that.

I'll stick with the simple explanation. Ever since people switched from a hunter-gatherer mode of existence to farming (and therefore civilization), there has always been an elite who control most of the wealth and power. Maybe I'm just a sheeple but I will take history and reason over hallucinogen-fueled theories any day.

That is a fair assertion but keep in mind that we wouldn't have evolved past hunter/gatherers without the aid of hallucinogens which basically jump started our evolution...

But I'm with you on David Icke...

We "evolved" past hunter-gatherers because agriculture can support a higher population density, so agricultural groups out-competed hunter gatherers.

But where did we learn agriculture? My bet is magic mushrooms growing in cow dung some 30 000 years ago.

They'd probably hit the snooze button.

yeah, you're probably right.

Passive resistance.

Form groups of people who feel the same way and discuss what can be done.

The three things we are told are impolite to talk about in America: politics, religion, money.

Why is that?

You don't need a cache of weapons. You need a neighborhood and neighbors who are comfortable around firearms and know why it is important to fight for their use even if they choose not to own one.

You don't need tons of money. You need to not be nickled and dimed to death by big banks and you need to share that information. What is a bailout? It's nickel and diming the tax payers to keep crooked bankers afloat and keep our political ties happy and content.

I could go on. Pick a subject and start talking about it with people you don't know. If they get all defensive they are not ready to open their eyes. They may never be.

Form groups of people who feel the same way and discuss what can be done.

Yes exactly. Please discuss

Ahh I see you've added some things.

The things you've added seem to be about getting people to wake up.

What I am saying is.. okay everybody is now awake and realizes how they have been fucked over. What could possibly be done to change it when those in charge have unlimited power?

People need to change their mindsets so that tomorrow they make more informed decisions. So it starts now.

Learning how to be self sufficient is a good start and ironically self sufficiency starts with knowing other people who are wanting or doing the same. You can cover each others weaknesses with each others strengths.

We rely on the military, welfare, the medical field etc for all our woes. Start getting healthy. Allocate where your money doesn't go - charities for Cancer, disaster relief, higher education in some instances, credit cards and bank fees, lessen your taxes because it doesn't go to the deficit it goes to the military.

Invest money wisely - reject the current money system, give money to political campaigns, invest in your own personal survival education etc., get into office or support friend who do.

Stop being a consumer. That money supports their agenda not yours.

Secretive use of the barter system would put a dent in the coffers of the people who are screwing you... and build communities ties at the same time. Must be secretive of course, lest the IRS come to lock you up.

That depends on your definition of "Waking up." Proper education to prove to yourself a political point of view takes years or decades, things would change slowly.

Perhaps your more of a spiritual person ? Even still, Enlightenment would take as long if not longer.

IF - and this is the biggest of ifs - People started to really educate themselves, especially the education of the self - Became active in society, became philosophers, every man a politician, every man participates to the fullest or least of his will- Every waking day would be to us - a lucid dream, and every night a sound sleep, and every death rejoiced.

Fair enough. Lets say everybody realized the government was not looking out for the peoples best interests but those of the super wealthy. That 911 was an inside job.

Those 2 things right there.. I mean what could people really do to change anything being those in charge are ultimately all powerful?

They stand up, all of us. We stand up and cross our arms....stand out front a big Gov't building and say "no more".

We don't move and in our way protest while the country and the world STOPS.

We make the shit stop dead. We stop dead to show OUR power. OUR control. Without US, NOTHING happens. Shit doesn't go down until someone says OK, let's work this out.....or worst case scenario, bullets start flying.

Now, if we did that.....they would shoot first. They would do that to make us react and falter. They would want to break us.

If we all of a sudden realized the severity of the issue, we COULD NOT break. We couldn't fail. (Plus we out number 100-1 at least)

People would die. It might be a reality. I would hope not, but i think that would be the case. They used 9/11 against us....to scare us into submission......and we bought into it. Everyone is worried about "terrorists" now. In the 90's it was the evil "black man" who they showed us in COPS, and whatever police shows are on TV. Notice how many shows are on TV now that are all Police or CSI or what have you? Are we programmed much?

We would have to tear down everything in this case. Shots are fired, people would have to be removed. They would have to be given fair warning, asked to leave to avoid injury or death and the system would need to be re-built by people who know that the system is there to serve the people, not the people who built the system.

It should be turned into a mundane system that any person can do and considered an honor to serve the country by doing a job that provided health care to all, young and old, sick and poor. Everyone. Consider the military budget the US has right now? Turn that budget into one that support the country. Think it wouldn't help at all? Pfft. That is only the part of the budget that we KNOW about.

It needs to be done in the name of the people, not in the name of the ALMIGHTY FUCKING DOLLAR.

Its time for the human species to be the priority and not the fucking few and the rich. Not the ones that just happen to come first.

We're all the same. We're all human. We're all in this together, and we only get one chance at it.

Make your choice and make it happen people. Are you worth fighting for? Non-violently? Answer and make it happen.

We would be completely fucked. You pretty much don't want this for sure. Especially if you value how your current life is.

What? Why?

because being in the know can let you escape the worst of it. I'm not a gold bug, but look how well those few 'crackpots' have made out in recent years. Likewise the people who sold their properties when they saw the height of the bubble.

Depending upon what people "wake up" on, you're talking about potential rioting, anarchy, military coups, etc.

Additionally, consider that even if everyone knew certain things were factual they would feel differently about them anyway.

Because they have already built camps. It is under the pretense of illegal immigrants. After the entire illegal immigrant movement they built a bunch of camps to put the immigrants in, but they keep on building them and they seriosly look like concentration camps. They can also be used in cases of civil unrest which is what would happen if everyone woke up.

Provide proof of these so-called "camps." The "FEMA concentration camps?" I keep hearing about these but have never seen any actual evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

To many sheeple about, worried about the next iphone app. or when they will bring out a better LCD or i-pad or etc they don't want to know as long as the have fast internet and the latest and greatest of whatever they find important in their shelted lives, What needs to happen is like-minded people to live in the same area, not spread out across America/UK/Candada/Australia and really change the town they are in first then their state then their nation.Then and only then may we change the wrondoings of a select few against so many.

this is good, i agree

At this point, it would require a nationwide riot in order to overthrow anything. Most of the systems that are in place to keep us in place are well reinforced, and new "technically non-lethal" technology is being developed and tested all the time for use in "crowd control".

But the fact is, the current meme and mindset of the majority is "We're in a recession...I should just be grateful that I have a job and try not to stir up trouble." When you add to that the other mindset of "I have a spouse/children/a disabled relative who depend on me...I can't let them down.", you can't hope to have any kind of a revolution in this country except an extreme one. The kind that doesn't tread lightly or take anyone's feelings into consideration.

Oh, don't forget the people that are waiting for the recession to end.

I assume you mean waking up from the main edifices of tyranny, lies, and destruction. This would include not only waking up to the fact that government is unethical but also religion and the cult of the family as major drivers of social despair. In the end all we have is objective reason, empirical evidence, and logic to sort our way through the ash heap of human history.

they would take advantage of their strawmen, and, hopefully, push us further into debt using our worthless money. who cares about hyperinflation if federal reserve notes are only used to zero out accounts?

or, they'd scrap the whole system, and go back to Private government (as opposed to our current corporate "public" government).

this is good, i agree

I'll stick with the simple explanation. Ever since people switched from a hunter-gatherer mode of existence to farming (and therefore civilization), there has always been an elite who control most of the wealth and power. Maybe I'm just a sheeple but I will take history and reason over hallucinogen-fueled theories any day.