1. Dude, you seem to care way too much about karma.

2. Unfortunately the United States still leads the planet as the only industrialized country that does not provide free healthcare. I feel for all of you poor people that have been deluded into thinking this is a good thing.

Our planet is never going to get anywhere when we spend all our time making the top 1% richer and richer. I think people in the future will look back at our time and say "what the fuck what their problem ?"

I'm 100% sure the OP doesn't want to make the top 1% richer. Also, he certainly has a point with people thinking that Obama "defeated" the "insurance megacorps"... If I'm not mistaken, all that happened is that we are now required to buy from them.

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Ok? And the money is still going to the insurance megacorps...

Make the top 1% richer they said? GG big-business.

I believe there is a fine for failing to be covered.

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The reason people can't afford to be covered is because the government got involved in the market to begin with. No, we don't need to change it to be tax funded, we need to abolish government involvement in the market.

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You did not need to reply to one paragraph with thirteen paragraphs. I'm not even going to bother.

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I scanned over it. You didn't even reply to what I said except marginally in the first paragraph, and you were incorrect then.

If we abolished government involvement in the market, there would be price fixing, all sorts of collusion among competitors, and monopolies.

No, there wouldn't. Every historical monopoly that lasted past the time somebody else figured out how to implement some technology, from the British East India Company to Standard Oil to Microsoft, has been a consequence of government involvement. Every single one.

Regulation narrows the range of companies, and hence, consumer choice in the market. Decreased supply with constant demand means increased price.

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Just be quiet. Learn to admit you're wrong gracefully.

It's not his fault...he is a dumbfuck.

you are a prime example of what the OP is talking about.

I don't follow you ?

I'm for anything that increases the quality of life for those unfortunate enough to be in a problematic health care situation, sure the people of the US could do better but it's going to take baby steps.

I really do not care for karma. I often wonder how I ended up with so much. I am very active and I guess it just comes along but like I said, I am scaling back for a while.

You are 100% correct in the rest of your comments.

Jeremiah 5:21

It's so old, its new again... again

I want healthcare reform as much as the next guy, but you have to step back and look at it for what it is... The whole heathcare bit is nothing more than a nice little package wrapped up for the healthcare monopolies. they're going to have a hard time getting this to stick through the courts. They've levied it on tax and stopped short of granting the IRS real collection powers... it's going to be interesting to watch this play out.

You haven't presented any evidence for your crazy talk, so please consider yourself downvoted, yet again.

Agreed... unfortunately you cannot go on a rant about something with-out backing up your rant and expect to not get down-modded... especially when going up against the hive-mind.

Though, I don't necessarily believe its bullshit.

Who are these socialists you are talking about? It can't be the actual Socialist Party because they oppose the healthcare law. I guess you are just ignorantly labeling people you disagree with as socialists because you think it is a bad word.

In fact, listening to Alex Jones even brings out more confirmations that we are more trouble than we realize.

That is rich.

You people think (and they want you to think) that Obama just defeated the evil faceless health insurance megacorps.

I can only think of one person who has said this (Ezra Klein) but a lot of people have pointed out that the insurance companies got what they wanted (they still grudgingly support the bill however).

I do not need to tell most of you what just happened today.

I'd love to read what you think happened. Should be a hoot.

Look into my profile...I said it like 5 times today. Getting tired of repeating it.

The Patriot Act did not steal as many freedoms as health care reform did today.

You lost me there

If you library records can be searched and your phone calls monitored, fine, start encrypting and tunneling everything. If you can't buy medicine that you want to buy, and if your taxes to pay for this program are too expensive, as well as the now waiting-to-be-more-monopolized insurance getting more expensive, and the medical care associated with it too expensive, well, guess what? You owe them even more money, because you're not patriotic enough to be insured. You are now dying and broke, and the water you drink from the faucet is making your skin fall off, and you can no longer buy bandages without a prescription.

Some of this is hyperbole.

If you library records can be searched and your phone calls monitored, fine, start encrypting and tunneling everything.

You can only do so much unless you're not willing to be part of normal society and live in a cabin in the woods instead. Not to mention being able to bitch about stuff you don't like about the government is pretty important. e.g. Your complaints bout this bill could eventually have you deemed dangerous by the government under the Patriot Act. For me the dangers from the Patriot Act are still worse because they attack the very rights given to us by the Founders.

If you can't buy medicine that you want to buy, and if your taxes to pay for this program are too expensive, as well as the now waiting-to-be-more-monopolized insurance getting more expensive, and the medical care associated with it too expensive, well, guess what? You owe them even more money, because you're not patriotic enough to be insured.

FTR I'm against this bill. That being said, if you want to make claims like that it would be nice to be able to back them up with numbers.

You are now dying and broke, and the water you drink from the faucet is making your skin fall off, and you can no longer buy bandages without a prescription.

I'm definitely not for the health care bill, but stupid hyperboles weaken your argument.

I'm definitely not for the health care bill, but stupid hyperboles weaken your argument.

I labelled it hyperbole for a reason. I only wish to show the extreme of regulation.

It's not close enough to the truth to be either funny or clever sounding. I just thought it'd be useful to point out it especially when you have to deal with someone outside of the choir.

Can you just shut up?

Can you? It would probably help our cause.

"Regulation," A.K.A. "having a group of people that go around harassing you, stealing your money and poisoning you" is not beneficial to your health or your income. I think your complaint is pretty stupid.

Have a I-don't-care-about-karma and dont-need-your-approval downvote from me, on the house.

It took me a while to catch on that when you said "Barky," you were referring to the President of the United States of America, Barack Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetoro. It can get a little confusing.

When I first heard him referred to as bho, I thought, "Yeah, I hate malware too!" (browser helper object)

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Don't put us all in the same boat here. I've been a fan of a couple of RobinOhio1's netsec posts, but here he lost me and I have to respectfully disagree with some of his points. This bill is in no way worse than the Patriot Act and don't see how one can accuse people that support this bill are socialists.

Ohio is an odd state with an odd mix of people. I've been here for 40+ years and I am still trying to figure it out. I think it has something to do with the fact that our neighbors are West Virginia and Kentucky.

I'll have you know that Neil Armstrong is from Ohio. Charles Manson was born in Cincinnati. Jeffrey Dahmer lived here for a time. Prescott Bush, born in Columbus. Roger Ailes is another Ohio boy. Baseball great Pete Rose is also from this state. If I had to pick my favorite from the bunch I couldn't. We're proud of all of them.

I'd go with Neil or Pete, personally.

Well if you twisted my arm I'd go with Charlie. He wrote all of the Beach Boys' best songs after all. That's a fact.

If you library records can be searched and your phone calls monitored, fine, start encrypting and tunneling everything. If you can't buy medicine that you want to buy, and if your taxes to pay for this program are too expensive, as well as the now waiting-to-be-more-monopolized insurance getting more expensive, and the medical care associated with it too expensive, well, guess what? You owe them even more money, because you're not patriotic enough to be insured. You are now dying and broke, and the water you drink from the faucet is making your skin fall off, and you can no longer buy bandages without a prescription.

Some of this is hyperbole.

It's not close enough to the truth to be either funny or clever sounding. I just thought it'd be useful to point out it especially when you have to deal with someone outside of the choir.