To awaken the War Beast. To strengthen the military corporations. To enforce greater control over our population. To instill fear among the masses so they welcome the loss of freedoms. To turn the sheeple into even more docile subjects. To inject a mind set of "us vs them". To give the sheeple a common enemy- invade them, control the region and the natural resources of the region and the world.

Yeah that about sums it up.

Nicely done.

[deleted]

Never forget.

To awaken the War Beast. To strengthen the military corporations. To enforce greater control over our population. To instill fear among the masses so they welcome the loss of freedoms. To turn the sheeple into even more docile subjects. To inject a mind set of "us vs them". To give the sheeple a common enemy- invade them, control the region and the natural resources of the region and the world.

Money/Power

Larry Silverstein wanted money for insuring those buildings in July '01. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein#World_Trade_Center

Rest is oil, military industrial complex, bigger government control, more secrecy, more fear, and set up for future wars.

[deleted]

I was going to make a comment about burning down an old building that needs repair so you can rebuild instead of upgrade. I didn't realize that might have a literal role to play in this too. lol

Peak Oil,Peak resources, The military industrial complex, continued US Hegemony, To enact a fascist totalitarian government, to continue Isreal's occupation, To keep the dollar as the world reserve currency, take your pick they are all reasons, all of them and more, US-Isreal had more to lose by not committing 9/11.

As a political tactic. When Bush was first elected he could get nothing done. He was a complete failure and an idiot and for legitimate reasons 1/2 of the country still wouldn't accept him as president and it looked bad. I have a feeling that since there was surplus budget money and all the bushies stood to gain from it anyway, war during Bush 2 was inevitable. They wanted to make $$. Before the election they probably hoped Bush could cowboy chuckle us into war, after his horrible first year they realized things would have to be ramped up.

9-11. Now no one can say no. They were trying to pass most of the patriot act well before Sept, but it was getting totally blocked, just like every other piece of GOP legislation in existance. After 9-11 the country became Bush's magic lamp. His wish was our command.

Financial crises, same thing. "Let's make money, let's pass the laws we want!" "Should we try to do it with debate?" "No! Let's just have something terrible happen so we can do what we want to "fix" it."

Way down the line in the future the strategist behind this time is who is going to be talked about. A Machiavelli for the new century.

If the same guys started working for the Dem's and they lose seats this nov(which I still secretly hope is just misleading polls somehow) Then they would do something like using a flu season to release a super flu that is non lethal but has long lasting health affects, inflicting 10000's of americans, giving them all huge hospital bills "forcing" real national health care and universal coverage. No one is safe from the cripple flu! But if it was really the same guys working for the dems, the people stricken would die, and it would be risky to try until the deficit is dealt with more so I'd expect it winter 2011

[deleted]

I'll have to agree with you to a certain extent.

Other people may be pulling the strings but the prez ultimately has to o.k. it.

[deleted]

When the seperate divisions of government are all in bed with each other, it's hard to determine if the checks and balances are working.

I'm sorry, I thought that since we all know the president doesn't actually have the power to do much on his own that "Bush" = "Bush and cronies"

As a political tactic.

This doesn't explain how so many people would have co-operated with it. While there have been some quite impressive sleighs of hand in the history of the planet, basically all of them have been pulled off by genius level people - if for no other reason than the fact that they could inspire the sort of loyalty needed for taking over a country.

Bush/Cheney just doesn't fit any of the criteria. Cheney might have the brains, but with his minimal charisma I just don't see hordes of people playing in to handing him power - intelligent or not (where I can for example see people playing in to giving Hitler, Caesar or Napoleon excessive power for a variety of reasons).

The only ones that could have pulled it off that I can imagine would be Mossad, and even with them I would expect they needed to be terrified of something to get over the risk of getting caught. The problem with this scenario is: how the fuck do they hide all their tracks from all the various US and EU intelligence agencies (you might be able to discredit Russian and Asian ones)? Or if they're in on it, why?

So many people?

If I am supposed to believe that 20 terrorist hijackers figured the whole thing out on their own why wouldn't my own government be able to do it? Top level decides it's a good idea, top secret messages and special orders convince 20 commandos that for the good of the country and to protect americas place in the world(also steadily dropping at the time) a few lives would need to be sacrificed. Maybe 25 commandos, 5 to rig explosives just in case. Only a few people have to do any work or set anything up. Then it's about managing information.

They could have blamed the whole thing on Canadians if the media picked up that story. If a few pieces of intel were leaked linking a Canadian terrorist task force to it. But we didn't want to invade Canada, we wanted oil and huge contractor payments to haliburton types.

Hordes of people never have to get involved who know they are, and you can't doubt that hordes of regular people would support him because they did. It's history, everyone fell in line and doubters are commies.

If I am supposed to believe that 20 terrorist hijackers figured the whole thing out on their own why wouldn't my own government be able to do it?

If it's a "controlled demolition"? Then we're not talking about same things, and the government supposedly achieved something far more risky and complicated.

If it isn't? Even then it's far more complicated for the government, because of the layers of hierarchy that orders will have to traverse one way or another.

top secret messages and special orders convince 20 commandos that for the good of the country and to protect americas place in the world

No such thing as a top secret message that isn't known by at least a handful of people. Also, who will be convincing them? Surely not Cheney or Bush, as that'd draw way too much attention. Time to bring in a 3rd party who will be doing a lot of this talking. Rumsfeld probably gets too much attention too, but surely he can't be kept in the dark because he'll figure it out eventually during all the briefings etc. Actually kind of have to bring in the whole core of the White House including the obvious Secret Service agents who will hear something suspicious sooner or later.

And what if one of the commandos says 'no' (highly likely)? The terrorists have the benefit that their outfits, you know, select people that want to terrorize. US special forces aren't quite as clear, even on the CIA special ops side (many of whom might be psychopaths, but I'm sure they're typically nationalistic psychopaths). Now you could of course start killing the people that say 'no', but someone would get suspicious.

All in all you're still having to approach 50 or so people, all of whom have CVs that will give them instant credibility in the eyes of foreign intelligence services, press etc.

Also, how do you cover the connections of those 20 to the US government? If CIA has sleepers in Egypt/SA, I have no doubt that Israel/EU intelligence services are aware of at least a few of them, which will be very big trouble if they recognize even ONE of the guys on the fucking planes. So how do you make absolutely certain that they won't recognize a single one? Completely impossible, unless you get those secret services on some level in on the plot (and something on this level might make even Mossad disgusted, never mind have them use it as a tool for scoring cheap points with the US populace), which again increases the number of people 'in the know' to intolerable levels, especially as many of the new ones have relative immunity to US govt displeasure.

They could have blamed the whole thing on Canadians if the media picked up that story.

Yes, but it's hard to control the media. It's even more difficult to control foreign intelligence services. Have you ever run a complicated project? The number of things that can go wrong on something far more trivial is astounding - the number of things that could go wrong here is... well... beyond belief.

Since this is all fan fic and possibility anyway, I am willing to assume that it doesn't take the 50 people you think it does.

Well considering you're just trolling, I don't know why I'd waste my time responding.

But...

Do you honestly think we'd have a patriot act or a department of homeland security if not for 9/11?

[deleted]

YES! Bush and the GOP were trying to get those laws passed BEFORE 9/11 and they were totally shot down in the house and senate! Completely blocked until 9/11 happened, and then passed in the few weeks after.

Seems like it.

What other convincing manner could they be created?

Just create them. What are people going to do, protest?

The GOP tried and failed to "just create them" they were blocked by dems and GOP members who saw those acts as insidious. Our gov protested and protected us from those laws for more than a year. Then 9/11, then a few weeks later the acts that had been blocked were renamed and passed.

Homeland Security and The Patriot Act woud not have prevented 9/11. You know what would have? Giving the rights of security to the airlines who would have defended their own planes (works fine for armored cars...)

giving?...giving??...

Rights aren't given--and a fiction can't have them...(yes, a CORP is a FICTION)...

stop interfering with the People's, any and all, Rights, and this mess would never have come about...

GOV's jobs are laid out quite plainly, and squarely, within the Constitution, and founded upon the Principles and Values of the Declaration of Independence (though the Articles of Confederation, not perfect, but reparable, were, of course, before the Constitution--that is a whole other discussion/debate/whatever)--and the Bill of Rights give you absolutely no Rights...they list some Rights that GOV is mandated to protect, absolutely...not restrict, regulate--or allow...not in their purview, period...

Homeland Security and Patriot Act (among other nefarious and heinous "legislations") are diametricall contrastive to the aims and intent of our found documents--and Principles...period...

>climbs down off soapbox, recovers from rant<

get the point?...

peace...

edit: typo

Clap, clap, clap

Yes, if not 9/11, some other extraordinary act of "terrorism" would have been required for us to have passed the patriot act and to install the department of homeland security.

And now think what will happen before the US military will invade iran - if they do.

And i think - after the mild reaction of the obama administration to actual happenings concerning islamic affairs - that will take place very soon.

I really hope that the rulers of this world will be so sensible that they dont use nukes in their plans.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

"We must fight now to avoid those young people to be taken into a nuclear holocaust, to maintain as much as possible their physical and mental health, and to create the ways in which human beings could be liberated from this terrible fate" - Fidel Castro

"Although September 11 was horrible, it didn't threaten the survival of the human race, like nuclear weapons do." - Stephen Hawking

We all should be greatful for the time in which we raised - since this is the top of economic development there is only a fall logically possible - we should use this situation to break through economic development ages and use new systematics for our societies. i mean economic development had only one reason to exist - to develop wealth for the people - we already own that aim too much now. we need to stop and rethink before it all escalates and possibly converts all that energy of human development to ashes.

And its just so simple - we just dont go to work anymore. Next step is a bit chaos - then our voices will be heard again.

Some people think that the plans were too elaborate. and wonder why people would go through all the trouble.

The more outlandish, the bigger the lie.

Look at the global political environment and the domestic U.S. body politic and there is your answer. The people who orchestrated 9/11 are the people who benefit from the current environment.

It's my theory that any explanation as to WHY will be complex and manifold.

My guess is that a group of neocons, Israelis, Mossad, and business people decided to pick a visible symbol to bomb, get their people in position to manage the demolition and also to profit from it.

I believe it is the same people who benefited from selling the several airlines stock short in the days before 911.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/sec-government-destroyed-documents.html

I think the main purpose was to incorporate the US in in Israel's war with the rest of the middle east and at the same time give trillions to defense companies and erode the Constitution by putting in place the draconian and ill-named "Patriot act" and other liberty killing legislation.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-netanyahu-says-9-11-terror-attacks-good-for-israel-1.244044

Last point - there are probably 10 other reasons and beneficiaries from 911 we'll never even consider.

EDIT: Agree about Larry Silverstein - and checkout Dov Zakheim too.

I'm sure there were a lot of things added on in an opportunistic way, but the Big Show seems to have been to start the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

This isn't a mystery, written out in "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,"(title=hint) and its revision renamed PNAC, retooled wording to pretend it's for the U.S. It's part of jewish supremacists/zionists/israel agenda for conquering the middle east and beyond.

http://www.rys2sense.com/hub/get/post/9.htm

http://www.rys2sense.com/hub2/

Peak Oil was the ostensible reason (although this does not validate peak oil as a theory, but enough people believed it to be true to allow this to happen).

Once the event was done, there was enough political / economic benefits being reaped that there is little incentive for insiders to even consider wether or not its an inside job.

To Help Futher A New World Order

To justify both an unnecessary Middle East war and a repressive domestic "War on Terror" which would enrich the very high-placed government officials (#cough#Cheney#cough#) capable of organizing a false-flag incident such as that.

Corollary: to collect billions of dollars of insurance money through fraud.

Two of the many reasons relate to the condition of the trade center buildings.

It is well known now that the lower 40 floors of the two main buildings were heavily insulated with asbestos. The lesser known reason is that the fascia of the main buildings were aluminum and they were fastened directly to the steel frame structure.

The contact between the two dis-similar metals caused a continual 1.5 volt charge to flow between the metals which causes what is known as galvanic corrosion.

The buildings had to go but it would have cost incredibly much more than the property was worth. subsequently the buildings were 'privatized' by the New York Port Authority. through financing made possible by the Blackstone Group in association with Henry Kissinger.The Blackstone Group was headed by Peter G. Peterson who was also the erstwhile president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. The outcome was that instead of paying out a huge number of billions ( and going through years of complicated political wrangling) for the demolition of the buildings those involved made a profit of billions and got the process over with in a single morning..

Population control, namely the US.

I can sort of just about see how attacking your own country might provide the means to push an agenda of some kind.

But what I don't get about the 9/11 conspiracy that is constantly pushed, is the idea of explosives being used. The hijackers were mostly Saudis, and they managed to get onto the planes and hijack them. What this required was men willing to kill themselves for a ideological reason - so what you needed to do was convince these men it would serve their anti-American ideals (or find men who already thought so).

So if we somehow imagine that the US government generating a terrorist cell - or to bend one to their will - they would simply need one or two operatives to infiltrate or otherwise get in with a group and to make sure they had the necessary training to hijack and fly planes into buildings.

This seems like a conceivably simple plan - relatively so - and would mean that if it succeeded or failed there would be a very few amount of people involved to avoid the plan getting out. It would also have the desired result as regardless of how effective the planes were at taking down buildings you would have a massive amount of death (at least all the passengers) and the sight of planes hitting buildings.

I am not going to go into the technical details or physics of planes taking down buildings - let's just think about this for a second. In order to produce the desired effect all that was required was for planes to hit buildings. If it was a conspiracy to provoke war then how would this not have had the same effect?

Now - let's consider the alternative. Instead of a very small group of vetted and trusted co-conspirators who could be tightly controlled, you instead decided to widen the conspiracy up and include the controlled demolition of the buildings you are hitting with planes.

You would not only require massively more resources, which could be traced and potentially found before the job, but there is the chance that in the one of the busiest buildings in the world that someone might find question the extensive work required to rig it to explode.

The second and most obvious complication is the extending of a small group of people out to the dozens or indeed hundreds of people required to pull this off. I am sure I do not need to go into the dangers of spreading a secret like this around - all you need is one person to change their mind and leak it before it happened and your house of cards comes falling down.

Yet what would the actual benefit of this be? The buildings are not just hit, but demolished? What extra benefit does that gain?

You already have a the biggest terrorist attack on the US and a terrified and outraged populace ready for revenge. Mission accomplished - why bother to complicate matters?

Let's take the profit motive - that the owners of the buildings wanted to rebuild and make the money on insurance. I am sure they could easily swing the opinion to one of the buildings being to dangerous to stand and demolition the only way forward.

A conspiracy - i can see where there is space for a government plot. A plot that involves the convoluted and ridiculous notion of a controlled demolition? Sounds like fantasy to me.

There is no question that the buildings were demolished using some kind of explosive force (just look at the footage). But we don't know who triggered that sequence nor why. Of course there is a government cover-up but that doesn't mean it was an inside job. Maybe the buildings were demolished to protect the public... if they were going to topple, or if they contained some kind of device. We just don't know.

using some kind of explosive force

Plane fuel right?

if they were going to topple, or if they contained some kind of device. We just don't know.

So lets keep pretending like we do know and go on and on about how there was a controlled demolition - after all, we don't know, but if we keep saying so then people might believe it anyway.

coppersink wrote:

using some kind of explosive force Plane fuel right?

Haha. A more plausible explanation is shockwaves from contained underground nukes.

So lets keep pretending like we do know and go on and on about how there was a controlled demolition - after all, we don't know, but if we keep saying so then people might believe it anyway.

We do know that the destruction of the buildings was not a consequence of the initial events, but the result of some unknown technique. Each of the three buildings stood still for more than 50 minutes and then was completely destroyed in less than 30 seconds.

What that particular technique was, if it had some relationship to controlled demolition techniques and who applied it: these are the unknowns.

This assumes that the only people who would attack america are those that hate it. My Assumption has always been, since 9/15 or so, that this was done by people thinking they were PROTECTING america. It's not about finding a cell of people willing to die to hurt americans, it was about finding people willing to die to protect this country and keep it out of the hands of commies.(I use commies as a stand in for evil bad people who are from other places or look/talk differently than "us") Men willing to die and kill other americans so that america can stay strong.

This assumes that the only people who would attack america are those that hate it.

You believe that the people who hijacked the planes and killed themselves flying into buildings actually liked America?

My Assumption has always been, since 9/15 or so, that this was done by people thinking they were PROTECTING america.

Wait... what about 9/11?

It's not about finding a cell of people willing to die to hurt americans, it was about finding people willing to die to protect this country and keep it out of the hands of commies.

So the Saudis that did this - they did so because they gosh-darn love the american way of life so much.

I was offering an alternate way that things could have happened. Consider it fanfic, so the saudis etc aren't in my consideration.

What about 9/11? I was saying you could consider a scenario where the perpetrators were people from the US, they had been talked into doing it in a patriotic way. It's easier to get people to die or kill themselves if they think they are protecting and defending something. Hell 80% of movie deaths bash that archetypal death into most americans anyway. Most suicide bombers don't head out on their last day thinking "I want to kill americans and hurt them because they suck." They have been confused to think, " I want to kill americans and hurt them to protect my family, home, religion, etc." So it's easier to blieve that the people in the planes thought they were protecting something than attacking something. Would you die to "attack X for having different ideas and ideals?" Would you consider killing yourself to ensure afghan women have more rights? Probably not. I wouldn't. Would you kill yourself or die to protect your family? your ideals? your country if you have that sort of patriotic love? Maybe. right? Depends on the details, but once you have a place to start it's a lot easier than attacking opposing ideals.

Agreed. The story is somehow that a government of morons came up with a fiendish plot of strategy that it had a moronic tactical plan for (the controlled demolition), which it then pulled off perfectly.

Morons -> genius -> morons -> perfection.

Somehow this just seems very strange to me. Which one are they??

Though the Bush government was full of "morons" when it came to running the country in a way that didn't fuck it up, they were always genius in their ways for them and their rich and powerful friends to profit. The "moron" Bush comes from him not giving a shit about his job or the people in the US. Every step of the way, until after the financial crisis the morons knew where to be and how to act to get what they want and profit. Every power grab, and even this tea party BS has been EXPERTLY managed.

they were always genius in their ways for them and their rich and powerful friends to profit

Yes, but how could they trust that some of their rich and powerful friends weren't quite nationalistic? My family has been sort of 99.9th percentile in society, and I know that anyone suggesting to fuck the country over to benefit him would have gotten his teeth kicked in immediately by my grandfather.

So I don't buy the scope of the conspiracy again - he's working to benefit a very large number of people, of whom many most certainly wouldn't agree to the goals of such a coup.

This means he can do legitimate things with their support (like tax cuts), but anything even close to 9/11 style would be incredibly dangerous to suggest anywhere near the "rich and powerful" friends. And if the rich and powerful friends weren't told, they didn't expect, in which case Bush had a perfect cover to not do crazy shit (like, say, 9/11).

All you need is the people who can call the shots. 5 people could do that. They just don't tell the rest what they are up to.

They did it for themselves. Maybe they knew their friends would profit too and felt good about doing a good christian deed and helping them without taking direct credit for it. Though when they swoop in to "save the day" I guess they still get to take credit for it. When the military you are in charge of hires your friends company at grossly inflated rates, your friend appreciates it no matter how the war started. He directly profits and gains power instead of failure. Again, if 20 terrorists could set it up and pull it off for real, it would take even less people with real power and people at their disposal to do the same thing.

The only conspiracies worth following are ones related to money.

Just create them. What are people going to do, protest?

They did it for themselves. Maybe they knew their friends would profit too and felt good about doing a good christian deed and helping them without taking direct credit for it. Though when they swoop in to "save the day" I guess they still get to take credit for it. When the military you are in charge of hires your friends company at grossly inflated rates, your friend appreciates it no matter how the war started. He directly profits and gains power instead of failure. Again, if 20 terrorists could set it up and pull it off for real, it would take even less people with real power and people at their disposal to do the same thing.