It might help your post if you knew how to spell Israel or offered any kind of evidence. Otherwise, I guessing TROLL!

Look in the upper-left corner of this post. See that nifty little symbol? It means this is /r/conspiracy. The only "evidence" that has a place here is youtube vids. Asking for more gets you labelled as a shill (I was one of the inaugural posts on /r/shill, literally because I asked for evidence).

Take that logic elsewhere buddy.

It appears your comment is an attempt to put down /r/conspiracy and discredit individuals who regularly read and post to here. Do you not believe people conspire for certain purposes?

My comment is meant to put down and discredit the attitude, which has become unfortunately prevalent in r/conspiracy, that a lack of evidence is evidence of any specious claims which might be made.

Its a very simple equation, shown again and again in r/conspiracy:

Asking for evidence, or point out a lack of evidence = downvotes. I can put forth so, so many examples of this, it happens on a daily basis. It becomes a self-feeding cycle, wherein users are discouraged from asking hard, legitimate questions due to the certainty of downvotes. this then encourages low standards in terms of the research actually done on stories.

That is both a generalization and libelous statement. I have experienced the same thing in many subreddits. People often give their opinion or make statements that may not be factual. I have found a great deal of factual, insightful and ahead of the curve information in /r/conspiracy. Information you will never see exposed in mass media. I don't like seeing anyone downvoted into oblivion. I see removing their comments as a form of numerical censorship. I don't believe in putting someone in /r/shill unless they show a repeated, disrespectful and abusive pattern.

1. - "Libelous" doesn't mean what you think it means. Because of that sentence, you forced me to read your entire comment in the voice of Charlie from Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

2 - "Ahead of the curve" and "not reported in the mainstream media" does not excuse shoddy or nonexistant research. You're right, this happens in many subreddits; it happens on an incredibly high rate in r/conspiracy. A lack of evidence does not make something "ahead of the curve."

edit yes yes, downvote instead of responding. Thanks for proving my point.

Why not just leave. I just don't get your complaining. When people don't like a forum they usually just walk away. This conspiracy subreddit is more of a gathering place for conspiracy researchers to trade material for better or worse. It's really up to the individual to confirm this stuff on their own. I don't think anyone here is willing to spare the energy needed to do your research chores or cater to your personal needs, nor should they. I think that's why there's few replies to complaints like yours. If you do get a reply, it's probably someone using you as an experiment to observe your intentions. You may find that amusing, so go ahead, call me a nutter if you'd like; fuck if I care. I'm more worried about future well-being of my family and friends. So, I just take this conspiracy material as a warning because it suits me and might even help others like me, and would have much to lose if I ignored it. But if this place is so awful for you, just leave.

Why not just leave. I just don't get your complaining.

Maybe because this place could be a lot more interesting. Instead of posting a bunch of crap that has been debunked hundreds or thousands of times people could post original items that are interesting to contemplate.

Lately it's just been "Israel did 911", "Israel controls the US", "Israel is the NWO", "Israel blah blah blah". Next Israel will be causing crop circles and Chemtrails. It gets boring and very uninteresting. I guess I could just leave but I'd rather try to make this a more interesting subreddit.

There are some great conspiracies about Beck and Palin, about the denver airport, aliens, all kinds of stuff. Why are they hardly ever on /r/conspiracy? Lately it's all been about banks, israel, and 9/11. yawn.

Let me save you some time: This place will not change for you. Some of us can find something useful in everything and leave what we don't need behind, while others reject those very things as a whole on the basis of whether or not they're flawed. And Israel, let me tell you something about Israel. It doesn't matter who here agrees, disagrees, likes, dislikes, loves or hates Israel. Politically speaking, Israel thought they knew what they were doing, they thought they had things under control, they got sloppy, they were being used in the same manner in which they were victimizing others, they've now lost their reputation and are going down in flames, and the ones who got them in that situation will dump them to save their own asses. At best, they have a few years left. Now sit back, watch the magic show, and DO NOT believe me while keeping in mind that time has a way of dealing with everything and no clever argument will escape it.

If you are sincere, which I don't think you are, you yourself can submit stories on those topics.

See Fountainhead's statement below (despite your downvote, he makes a good point).

Its not about whether or not I "like" this forum.

I've been around for a long time here, with this profile and another before. R/conspiracy used to be a very different place than it is now. Actual research was valued. True skepticism (as opposed to just following the youtube vid du jour and calling oneself a skeptic) used to be a real trait around here.

Look at the fact that my above post has been downvoted for a great example. The person I'm responding to clearly doesn't understand what "libelous" means. That is clear.

From there, I stated that we need evidence to be legitimate. What did I get? Downvotes.

Evidence is a real thing. It is perfectly reasonable to ask for it. People like you, who feel that we should simply accept any claims presented without it, are a cancer on r/conspiracy.

@Pfmohr2 and Fountainhead

But there you have it: r/conspiracy won't bend to either of you. This idea of demanding total and instant accuracy and decrying what you perceive as inaccurate is about as useful to me as avoiding cave exploration because there may or may not be a big angry bear inside that some warn has been eating people. What they're doing here in r/conspiracy and many other places is taunting the bear to expose itself by pissing it off. Once it's out in the open, it's just a matter of time before those who were victimized by it show up to take their revenge. And as for the intricate, distracting little details that keep some so preoccupied, hey, who cares what shade of color that bear has or where he kept all the bones of his victims, that fucking bear will never have a chance once it's out. But all along they'll be those standing on the sidelines claiming the bear never ate anyone because no bones have ever been found. And for a while, wittingly or unwittingly, they've managed to keep the bear's activities under wraps. But guess who they (an the angry mob of victimized assholes, armed to the teeth) come after next once the location of the bones are found within the cave.

So, good links won't be submitted, because the shitty ones with a total lack of evidence are designed to somehow goad the govt/jews/reptilians into exposing themselves?

Look, I don't ask for instant accuracy, I only ask for evidence of some kind to back up claims. Its one thing to claim that there might be a man-eating bear in a cave. Its a different thing entirely to claim that there is a bear in a cave that is spreading mind-controlling chemtrails out of his ass while he flies out of his top secret command center, all with the goal of a NBO takeover off the bubblegum industry.

The shitty subs, with no evidence, won't ever goad the bear into coming out, they'll just make the bear more comfortable in the knowledge that the NBO bubblegum takeover conspirists will discredit the reasonable people saying "hey, there's a bear in there."

Seriously, what do you think libelous means?

GOOD.

We need a real patriot military, especially officers. Not some phaked-up "Tea Party(TM)" crypto-zionist bullshit.

[deleted]

The next step is to see if any known Mossad front companies dabble in/purchased remote avionics packages.

I believe you because I know people who have personally spread word to your peers and others connected with military related operations.

I wonder when a 'Gral. Jack Ripper' will take hold of a stealth bomber and do some maverick maneuvers. Yes, I'd be pretty pissed off if I had seen my friends, comrades, family die, suffer and end up damaged and cheated off pensions and help over the agenda of an external power. Of course, I doubt it's exclusively the israeli interests that caused the 9/11 - Iraq clusterfuck.

Any and all rouge patriots will be classified as friendly fire victims if they fail, and terrorists if they succeed. Then used as a false flag to further the agenda. See: Pat Tillman.

We need a paradigm shift internally to stop the scope creep. The question is how. Not enough Americans are awake enough to participate, but we need almost all of them. Tough spot we're in, gents.

I'm afraid it will fall to a future generation.

That's our phrase. Anyone using it outside a scientific context deserves to be smacked.

You can't just point at Israel. The highest levels of the American establishment are intimately involved as were BAE Systems, the Saudis and the ISI in Pakistan. I believe that probably Mossad helped and there are some Zionists possibly calling the shots, but to what degree most really are 'Zionists' I don't know, probably a lot of them don't actually know a lot about Zionism and have other reasons like owning shares in companies like Halliburton.

I don't believe the US would ever go to war with Israel. Which is why it is smart to go ahead and keep pointing at Mossad if you are trying to protect the truth of the operation.

You can't just point at Israel.

True, but: It was 80%+ in the cause of zionism. The rest was a sideshow.

I think it is more like 80%+ in the cause of money, at first I was pissed at the neocon zionists and in truth some of them probably knowingly participated. Eventually it started to seem like wheels within wheels though. The whole zionists are behind 911 has started to feel like another scapegoat. Kind of a back up in case the facade wears thin.

I think the assholes behind 911 span countries, race, religion and political bent. The only real thing they have in common is the love of money and power.

That said the path to the truth probably begins by calling Israel out and following the path wherever it leads from there.

I want to believe.

"..planes being shot down,"

Which planes were shot down?? ..the only talk I have heard on the subject, is the same mismanaged BS that comes from the keypads of traitors, that says Flight 93 was shot down in Pennsylvania! Flight 93 on 911 - No Boeing 757 crashed near Shanksville!

..fantasizes about a war erupting between US and Isreal.

The wars and Yisrael stuff is all about the false Messiah, the Ashnenazi non-Jews who established the modern state of Israel in Palestine, now know that their situation is untenable and have deserted occupied Palestine in droves.

They have sent other sacrificial Ashkenazi non-Jews and real Ethopian Jews to hold the Palestinian fort, who are gonna be nuked right out of business along with the indigenous inhabitants of the region, after TMSO Israel attacks Iran.

The Texas Jews who plan to be around to pick up the pieces, are gonna endorse the attack on Palestinian Yisrael, are gonna use the non prosecution of the 911 conspiracy as the impetus to stage a false revolution.

Where after the US traitors right up to and including the various occupants of the White House, the US Senate and Congress, that have conspired either to perpetrate the attacks or seeking personal gain or preferment have joined the conspiracy, are gonna be prosecuted and hanged!

So y'all who support the OBL fiction at the expense of truth, who like Congressman Wexler ask "what has this to do with ANYTHING," - his caps - are gonna have to do something because the J's planned on selling you all out right from the start!

Name names, or you are a troll.

Simple.

I think that's a little unfair. Because you can neither prove he's a troll or not. And in his situation where I'm sure as has been said, he doesn't have any spectacular evidence saying Israel perpetrated 9/11 as I'm also sure none exist in that sense. As such if he has no real evidence to leak, or documents to leak as I'm sure this sort of information makes it warranted to fear for ones life. Then what's the harm in voicing his opinion about rumblings in the military? I would rather hear this, and have potentially more members of the armed services hear this so the truth begins to bubble up to the surface more and more as the masses realize they far out number those that are leading the rest of the sheep by means of deception. For if he is being truthful, he deserves are admiration and support not your arm-chair criticism.

Not that I disagree that names, documents etc would be helpful, but give him some credit...

Credit for what? Making up a story? Without evidence thats all this is.

So, Army or Air Force, I'm leaning toward Air Force, either way, you're an O-1 or O-2.

While I disagree with the official story, this stinks a little too stormfront leaning to me. We don't need another holy war.

Even if you came up with evidence that the Mossad was involved in 911 you lost me with the whole planes being shot down and missiles being fired thing.

There is absolutely no physical evidence supporting those claims. Listening to 911 nutters talk about the physical evidence is like listening to a creationist justifying his views with scripture and dogma whilste ignoring the mountain of proof before him.

you lost me with the whole planes being shot down and missiles being fired thing.

The whole plane crash in Pennsylvania is bullshit, and so is the Pentagon crash.

Why are they bullshit? We have physical, audio, video, radar, and eyewitness, etc. evidence confirming nearly everything about both of those crashes.

Really? Two planes completely disappeared. The planes were never reconstructed, as is normal for air crashes.

But, of course, for the Pentagon crash, there were numerous security cams that video'ed the whole thing. You can provide a youtube link that shows the plane going in, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

Keep believing it's a missile. Missiles don't look like that when they impact, and they don't work that way. An AGM is designed to cause it's greatest damage AFTER impact, the simple fact that damage becomes less as we go through the rings and that the debris for the most part go inward is completely contradictory to the way every AGM in our arsenal is designed to work.

If it was a missile or guided bomb is was wildly defective.

I have no strong opinion on what hit the pentagon, be it a missile or a drone or whatever. It just does not seem plausible that it was a big airliner. And the one nice clean hunk of metal with part of the airline logo on it being the only identifiable piece of airplane is also rather much too pat.

I'm not interested in the theories of how the deception was made. I just want to hang the neocons that did it.

Some of these are NSFW so be warned.

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

Still think it wasn't a large airliner full of people? Still think it completely disintegrated?

The whole purpose for taking the tapes et. al. was to create a massive red herring, people love to cling to this theory (which was first posted in the French Press before WTC 7 fell) that there wasn't a plane at the Pentagon. If people do start waking up, this is an incredibly simple to debunk theory with hundreds of pieces of evidence showing it was a plane.

Joe Shmoe who hasn't done the research sees that and immediately writes off the rest of the plot as "dem' durty muslems" and they get away with it. It disgusts me that anyone can buy and continue to propagate the theory that there were no jets at the Pentagon and Shanksville.

My last reply to that "nice clean hunk of metal"

Here's a starting point. 400 quatloos for the first match of that piece of metal to any American Airlines Boeing photo from the 2000s.

The link is the largest storehouse I've seen of airliner photos. To my old eyes, the colors aren't even right.

Two planes did not disappear. They planes were never reconstructed because there was nothing to reconstruct - the aluminum shells and parts were vaporized. Also, this was not an air crash where a reconstruction would impart some knowledge on how, why or what failed to cause the crash. (EDIT: - This was also not an accident where the pilots were trying to make an effort to limit damage and preserve life)

Video of plane going in? Security cameras don't take video like that. The really good ones (like the ones at the Pentagon) snap photos every few microseconds though, so you are probably able to catch a portion of the plane if the camera got lucky. The plane was traveling quite fast, you see...and the thousands of eyewitnesses that saw it said so as well. What evidence do you have that the thousands of eyewitnesses, the videos, the radar and physical evidence at the Pentagon are wrong?

and the thousands of eyewitnesses

Really? Thousands? They actually saw an airliner hit the building?

Hundreds saw it hit the building. Thousands saw it in fly over the nearby Freeway.

Your numbers are extraordinarily high and wrong.

Please see THIS

No, they are not. Not everyone who saw what happened feels compelled to shout "YES! Thats what I saw!" into a camera or a YouTube video. Also, once a TV reporter asks the 20th person, "What happened?" The reply, "I saw a plane and wondered why it was so low...then I heard an explosion" gets pretty boring for viewers. Not to mention the physical evidence at the Pentagon leaves absolutely no room for doubt. And then there is radar. And video.

What are you claiming crashed there and what evidence do you have to support it?

Do you have ANY idea how many 1 THOUSAND people is?

Say you're right.....look at google earth or maps and imagine 1000 people around the pentagon. I think you'd have over flow onto the highway. Not all in the same spot you say? Fair enough!!

Imagine 1000 people all on 9/11 NOT staring at THEIR TV'S for hours. Then ask yourself if 1000 people are all staring at or around the Pentagon on that day.

TV rules. 1000 people on that day......there are no where near that amount. C'mon, be reasonable.

Lastly, the PHYSICAL evidence....again provided and collected and not directly attributed to ANY plane or SERIAL NUMBER means that you cannot in any way take their WORD for it. If you can take their word for it......then you are what they call.......brainwashed? Sorry to make it sound so bad but man.....seriously. You don't sound like the standard shill but I've been wrong.

Watch the video I linked to.....Provided by your friendly neighborhood Citizen Investigation Team. A few guys who FUNDED their own way to Arlington, Virginia to do interviews. They uncovered what you have yet to see.

They have 13 direct witnesses to the plane that day. No missiles, no nothing except a plane......flying on the North side of the then Citgo gas station, now the Navy Exchange (always the military slant).

What does that mean you ask?? Thanks for asking......the plane could not have caused the damage path when flying on that North side approach. What does THAT mean you ask?? Good question!!!

The plane could not have hit the Pentagon. The damage path is different.....and on top of that......Rosevelt Roberts....a Pentagon POLICE OFFICER......ran out of a loading dock to see a "commercial airliner" flying over the parking lot and away.

What does that mean you ask??? They are fucking LYING TO YOU.

They want nothing more than to coax the population into a war on a people and a country that could not have pulled it off. For gods sakes, 4 of those high-jackers are still alive!!!

What else do you have besides your OPINION???

You need FACTS to fight this battle. Whether it be against the "twoofers" or the people who managed to pull the wool over the entire........over MOST of the countries eyes.

You need more information, and if you're not a shill.....you will see the light.

Your next reply.....if any......will determine whether this was a waste of time or not.

One thousand people is not that many. 26,000 alone work in the Pentagon and I am ignoring every one there. At a rate of 5 people per second passing over an imaginary line through I-395 (conservative IMO as it's an 8-lane highway and this was during morning traffic) it would only take a little over 3 minutes to have 1000 persons pass that line. This is ONLY on the freeway. This COMPLETELY ignores every side street, every other office building and convenience store in the area that had a view of the sky. There are residential areas where people were likely watching TV though...and many would have had a clear view of the sky - but they are over a mile away so lets ignore them? You are trying to tell me that in this snapshot (recall that 26,000 work at the Pentagon and compare to the floor area of the other office buildings that are stories taller), it's ridiculous to place 1000 people who seen a plane flying low? Please let me know where my math here is wrong. 1000 is conservative.

There are many, many photos of debris from inside the building - of course there probably will not be a magically found serial number still intact on a piece of thin steel that did not melt (in fact, if they did - wouldn't that be MUCH better evidence of a cover-up?). Firefighters could not even get close the crash site until 1pm because of the heat. I am sure you have seen the photos of plane debris from inside the building, if not, say so or do a search. What they have is what I (as a structural engineer) would expect to find from a 350mph jetliner crash into heavily reinforced concrete walls. Pretty much no aluminum or thin steel. Tungsten parts, absolutely. If you are going to claim that the parts they photographed were not from Flight 77, are you saying the conspirators were incompetent and could not even match parts? Why would they not have provided more concrete proof and why make silly 'mistakes' (they actually are from Flight 77).

Lastly, seeing the plane on once side the Pentagon does not preclude it from being anywhere else...all those witnesses provide evidence for is that they saw a plane 'there' when many other eyewitnesses claim it made a 180 degree manuever (putting it where you say it was not). Why make this 180 degree manuever claim? Why damage one area and then claim the plane came from that area? Again, are the conspirators that incompetent? If you want to see why people are skeptical of these types of interviews, look at the deceptive tactics used and out-of-context quotes that are used here: http://www.oilempire.us/eyewitnesses.html

Here is a list of witnesses: http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

We do need facts, and I believe we have them. I don't think anything you have provided sheds any shadows on what the government said is wrong or untrue. The eyewitnesses you have do not appear to claim the plane they saw fly away after the explosion (or do they?). Also, do you have a transcript of their testimony I would like to compare it to the hundreds listed at the site above.

I appreciate /r/conspiracy in that I am confident our government has conducted black-ops on Americans. I am confident our government lies, cheats and conspires daily for goals that do not necessarily benefit America. I am glad people like you and other on this subreddit question everything. I simple believe, after reviewing the evidence and seeing the arguments for half a dozen conspiracy theories, that it overwhelming supports the official account in this case. First there were Put Options, now it's know the same transaction included purchasing the other airline stock as well. Then it was a missile hit the Pentagon - it appears that theory is abandoned. Then it was "Why did WTC7 Collapse?" and all the eyewitness testimony from on-site fire chief, police, fireman and pedestrians that say a large chunk of the lower corner of WTC7 was gone is ignored?

I honestly believe we need you guys, but I am saddened that there are so many devoted to this cause for which I see no evidence for a conspiracy.

You can talk all you want. There is no serial numbered physical evidence to Flt. 77......they had....and you must agree.....the smallest amount of evidence possible.

Seriously now....when planes crash, they leave their tails and wings lying around, not to mention 55000 lbs. ENGINES LYING ON THE GROUND. Sorry, but those don't disintegrate/disappear. No fire or crash can do that. When planes fly into structures that are SOLID in nature..... ie. BUILDINGS.....they're wings leave marks.....damage...verticle stabilizers would smash windows and bust concrete. For you to say that those wings had less energy than if I were hitting the building with a hammer is FUCKING RETARDED.

Secondly.....it SUPPOSEDLY crashed into the FIRST floor of the building. You know what happens when you get the body of that kind of plane that LOW to the ground??

YEAH, the engines hang feet below the body.....the engines will dig trenches into the ground. Seriously.....this is child's play. This is ridiculous....

I don't know why I bother. Your answer is obvious enough. You've got lots of text to "fight" back with.....but no FACTS.

So, go ahead and talk about your OPINION....and your THOUSANDS of witnesses.....not even all 24,000+ people who could ALL be there that day be ALL looking out the same windows to watch the plane come in to "crash" at the Pentagon.....yeah, you have 24,000 plus witnesses to the event. WTF are you on? Throw big numbers and expect people to go all "OHhhhh!!! He has a point.....that many people DO work there!!! OHHHHH!!!". Like that means something.

Ok, go ahead and "work" on those witnesses and start making your own list of people who actually SAW the plane crash. That way, by the time you're on your death bed and you're ready to spill the beans, we can say...."oh no, no......YOU had it right all ALONG!!! Look at all the witnesses you FOUND, you said so yourself! You were SOOOO confident that you were right!!! Please, tell us its not true!!".

You wouldn't want to give that all up would you?? being a traitor to your own species for paper? Monopoly paper? Right?

You wouldn't sacrifice your......your soul, I guess....... would you? It is what you are.....why would you say these things knowing full well what they mean. You know what you are. You know what you're saying.

Is paper with some ink on it your God? Do you "love" paper in a way that we mere mortals don't understand??

Is it worth it? It's not likely worth it for me to type this shite but....wtf right???

Its only MY life and millions of other lives you're fucking with right?

What I find funny is......you're a fucking low level schmuck. If there is some kind of plan.....some shit going down.....they won't help you. You're not important enough. You're a no-body. You're the guy in the movies that is all smiles and bounces a lot around the boss....and then when the shit hits the fan, YOU'RE the first to get whacked. See how the works?? The head honcho's do do this internet trolling. YOU do!! What does that mean?? You're a red shirt!!! You're expendable.

You're expendable. That's why they pay you money. You're only worth pieces of paper. That's it. You're not worth saving or helping.....you're only worth USING.

You're a tool......lol, in more ways than one. Did you get that? ha, see that sarcasm......that was a good one.

You're a human being.....made into a tool......nothing more.......you're not a human being.....you don't even have a spine. You can't tell me anything that would tell me you're an actual concerned person who just can't find any evidence to a "conspiracy".

We only live once man.....and this is how you do it? This is how you go down? That's all you got?

You are some serious drugs there, buddy - maybe cut down a bit?

I have posted many facts, just because they do not fit your narrative doesn't make them go away. I listed over a hundred eye witnesses who saw the plane hit the building. There are numerous photos of the two engines inside the building. There is video of the plane hitting the building. There is radar showing the exact path of the plane. The fact that there are no 'marks' from the wings is because that entire side of the Pentagon collapsed, taking the 'marks' with them.

Seriously. You have nothing. Nothing. Lack of a serial number? Are you fucking serious you want them to find a serial number stamped on thin steel that was sitting in an inferno for hours? IF they came out and said, "Here is the serial stamped on such-and-such - THEN you would have some evidence for a conspiracy because that is like the magic bullet in the Kennedy case.

You claim that the conspirators were smart enough concoct the plan, a plan that consisted of terrorists taking over a plane with BOX CUTTERS...seriously, they created this conspiracy and decided that BOX CUTTERS would be the most believable? Not kitchen knives? Not explosives? Not guns?....they picked BOX CUTTERS??? Despite that ridiculous argument, you go on to say that despite the perfection and secrecy that would have been required of THOUSANDS of people across a wide spectrum of specialties that they decided against manufacturing strong evidence to confirm "their" narrative? That they were so smart to devise it but incompetent enough to let an armchair engineer make idiotic claims like "the engines didn't leave marks in the ground" would put the ENTIRE operation at risk??

Are you fucking stupid?

I'll ask one last question.

If there was a plane crash at the Pentagon, why would the FBI go around and confiscate all the videos from that day?

If they want you to believe Ft. 77 crashed there.....and it actually DID crash there.....why wouldn't they show you the footage?

Why wouldn't they BOMBARD you with video proving it to be so? Instead there is no conclusive video of that day. Go ahead and cite all the footage you want and I'll cut them all down for you.

Also, don't talk to me about their "narrative" like I picked it myself. Read it and weep, that's the bullshit they are pushing down your throat, not mine.

When planes do crash, and they have to identify the plane and parts. They CAN and do identify planes and its parts by SERIAL NUMBERS. Look it up. Every plane has parts that apply those only those planes. They can be identified. I won't bother looking for that info, you can google it.

I don't need a narrative, I read a list of over 100 eyewitness accounts, saw physical evidence of a plane and am well aware that if they DID find a serial number in that wreckage, that would be PROOF that there was a conspiracy. Why would they not just 'manufacture' proof? It was easier to plan and execute the destruction of two towers and fool the WORLD but planting some simple serial numbers was just TOO tough? Are you fucking kidding me? The fact is, there are no serial numbers to get because all the aluminum was VAPORIZED. All the steel was melted. Both engines are recovered - and - strangely enough, match the engines that were on Flight 77! Would would have thought that over a 1000 people saw what every single piece of evidence proves! Lets not forget the actual flight recorder conclusively proves it was flight 77. You see, serial numbers are not critical in an investigation (unless you are the DEA investigating a crashed airplane) but flight recorder data...that IS actually specifically designed to be protected from damage by catastrophic events...and it was recovered. And proves your theory holds not a drop of water.

Lets also ignore that if they used drones why make up a stupid story about BOX CUTTERS taking over planes? Seriously, they masterminded the entire day to perfection, controlled every aspect of the day and decided that BOX CUTTERS were the best story??? It's not as if bombs have never made it on a plane, or real guns, or a plastic gun, or a kitchen knife...they chose BOX CUTTERS???

What the fuck are you smoking?

EDIT: I forgot to answer your question, sorry! If you were a structural engineer, viewing the video of the Pentagon crash would provide INVALUABLE evidence for future attacks. You are damn fucking right they would confiscate the videos. Besides, why do you need video - there are HUNDREDS of eyewitnesses, physical evidence, a flight data recorder...the fact you don't believe what they are saying would change from whatever-the-fuck-you-believe to something else equally as ridiculous (oh, there is video...then it was a DRONE, yeah!...Where is the video from INSIDE??? Huh huh huh?? And there IS video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Idiot.

Wow pally....just wow.

All the Citgo witnesses and Arlington cemetery witnesses prove you're following the wrong story.

How does a a plane on the NORTH side strike the Pentagon via a SOUTH side approach?

Good luck with that one. You go ahead and believe your million witnesses who where no where near as Lagasse and Brooks.

Answer the basics, and if you're just a guy trying to promote the truth, you'll get it....or not who cares. You just happily believe whatever the potential culprits tell you.

All the info you talk about...aluminum "vaporized" and steel "melted" .....even engines recovered!! Wow, I've seen those pics. They don't show and engine the size of THIS. just go through that quick post...no I don't care about AJ...stay with me now.

They are huge and don't "vaporize" or "melt". Look at other crashes and tell me how the is any different. Why did the plane "vaporize" and all other crashes before and since end up with the majority of the plane visible?

Box cutters....fuck off with that shit. If the plane was NORTH of the Citgo, and flew over the building......then the plane did not get taken over by hijackers.....its was a setup! Remote plane or what ever you like to determine that.

Come back to me now....how did a SOUTH side damage path get created when the plane was no where near any light poles, or in line with any generator.

Answer that. If you can, you'd be the first in history. You'll go down in the record books as the one who was the smartest of them all!! What do you say man? You seem to have everything else down pat! You clearly have ALL the answers already.

Answer that question. Also, fuck off with the insults. I don't give a shit. If it really makes you feel better than....whatever but....be an adult.

PS, there is no footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon.

Good luck with that one. You go ahead and believe your million witnesses who where no where near as Lagasse and Brooks.

The witnesses were exactly that - WITNESSES that saw a plane crash into the Pentagon. Read that again, they saw a plane crash into the Pentagon. What did you see?

Of course the pics wont show an engine that size, the shell of that is aluminum with aluminum parts. You know what it does show? The internal tungsten turbine which is much smaller and exactly what they found inside the Pentagon.

The plane made a 180 degree turn...this means, follow me here...it was on ONE side and then the OTHER side. You have thirteen who saw the plane on one side...grats, they saw half the attack. Did they see that plane flying away after the crash? Of course not!

You have to be the biggest fucking delusional retard if you think the US government was capable of secretly pulling off 9/11 but made a mistake like knocking poles down on the wrong side. Is your head up your as that far?

PS, there is footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon...along with over a hundred eye witness accounts, and a flight data recorder, and radar data, and physical evidence....I could go on but I don't think you can hear so well with your ears rubbing on the interior of your large intestine.

But yeah, YOU are sooo much smarter than the MILLIONS...literally MILLIONS of scientists, engineers and academics that have studied everything about what happened.

Really though...BOX CUTTERS? That is this entire conspiracy rests on?

Let me get this straight.....you admit that the plane was on the North side.....but can't put it together that the damage path is on the SOUTH side? Holy fuck.....and you call me delusional??

Sorry PAL.....that's what the conspiracy rests on. That and WTC 7 didn't fall down due to fire and WTC 1 and 2 don't fall at free falls speeds without help. They all were demo'd.

Well, if you're an actual human being.....you'll find in a few years that you're wrong.

Good luck in life.

I am doing very well in life, thanks.

The plane was on the south, and north side...thats what happens when a plane makes a 180 degree manuever. This is pretty basic geometry. That 'revelation' is not something that millions upon millions of scientists, engineers and intelligent people missed.

WTC7 fell because a MASSIVE part of the lower corner was missing from falling debris. There are hundreds of eyewitnesses to this. WTC7 was evacuated long before it collapsed because fire marshals assessed that damage and concluded a collapse was highly likely. The two main towers absolutely did NOT fall on their own footprint, and falling at freefall speed would be expected because of the massive weight of the upper floors that fell compounded with the severely compromised steel structure below. You can't get more than a single structural engineer to make the claim they were demo'd because nothing in any video or any physical evidence points to a demolition. Not a single shred of evidence. Not molten aluminum (goggle that and see all the neat colors aluminum makes - and the fact it turns white when it cools, not black), not deceptive sound edited video of other demolitions, not a list of +1200 'architects and engineers' (only ONE...ONE of which is a practicing structural engineer) None were demo'd. Thermite residue is from rescue operations. There were no 'put option' scandal. You are delusional.

I am for a debate. Coming to the table with everything media says is not a debate.

The plane cannot be on the north side and the south side at the same time. Do you understand what a 180 degree turn is? AKA, turning around? I know you're thinking of the whole loop thing.....but I'm talking about it AT THE PENTAGON.

It can't fly by two police officers on the north side and cause a damage path on the SOUTH side. Have you ever seen a picture of what I'm talking about? Did you see the interviews?

Also, you seem well "versed" in these things. Can you tell me about Keith Wheelhouse? Then while you're always referring to the loop......tell me about Steve Chaconas.

What do they say? How "informed" are you?

So I cannot use anything the media has mentioned? Well that about rules out everything since they have reported on every fact of every incident and reported on every single piece of evidence worth mentioning. Won't be much of a debate but here goes...

Kieth Wheelhouse is one of a a handful of witnesses that claim to have seen another plane following behind or above (they have conflicting stories).

And...then there is the pilot, Steve O'Brian. His testimony does not in any way dispute what these people saw.

Steve-O

I don't see what this proves?

Steve Chaconas? Appears to be the ONLY witness that disputes the other thousand witnesses, the flight data recorder and the radar data. I would throw his testimony out as it appears certain to be an outlier. Look that word up.

You seem to have a pretty liberal definition of south and north. The poles damaged are from the southwest-west. The Plane came in from...wait for it..the southwest-west. Also, it flew north of the officers because...oh em gee, the officers were south of the plane.

OK, on with your day.....whatever you like man.

Steve Chaconas and his BOAT of fishermen saw the plane. Fly East to West over the Potomac.

You don't know why that is important?

PS - well done in staying away from Wheelhouse. THAT whole story and BULLSHIT supported by the media doesn't trigger anything?

You're gullible man. Even if you're not a bullshitter.....you can't even tell the difference between evidence supplied by the potential perps and another un-biased source. You wont even think about considering it. You just parrot what has already been said.

your turn.

You wont even think about considering it. You just parrot what has already been said.

Actually, I did consider it. Perhaps that fisherman boat saw the cargo plane? They were pretty far away. The reason I dismiss it as not being flight 77 is because then I have to dismiss the hundreds of other witnesses, the flight data recorder and radar data. So it's a choice I present myself with.

This guy saw flight 77 on the east side of the river means that over 100 people were mistaken in their testimony from locations that were MUCH closer, the other thousands who saw it but didn't give testimony never came out to say, "hey, thats not what I saw!!", the flight data recorder information was faked, and the radar data was faked.

OR

One guy and his friends on a boat fishing were, perhaps drinking and saw the Cargo plane flying away from the Pentagon.

I choose the latter. Why do you choose the former?

What is supposed to trigger to me that a military plane was following a hijacked passenger plane? It was likely monitoring it's actions. I honestly don't see anything nefarious at all about this.

OK, I'm done.

Can I ask why you do this? How much do you get paid?

You are done? Very sad because I told you why I dismiss one guys eye witness report to believe 1000+ eye witnesses. I am genuinely interested in how you, instead, dismiss 1000+ eye witness reports to believe 1. Not to mention I think I offered an extremely plausible scenario that marries all 1001 testimonies. (Note that I said plausible, not that I am certain.)

I get paid roughly 100k a year in 10-12 person structural engineering firm.

Yeah I'm done talking to you when you make you up figures about witnesses.

I believe the people who were there that day. They saw what happened with their own eyes. You were not, yet you'll believe data that can be EASILY manipulated. That and you ignore that the FDR and radar data was all provided to you 4 YEARS after the fact! Yet again, you believe them unequivocally.

So well done Mr. Engineer guy who thinks he's in the know. You sit behind your computer and like everyone else you have all the answers. There are still people and scientists working and thinking about all the holes in the 9/11 story but......YOU KNOW IT ALL.

So well done. You're the man. Is that what this is? And ego trip? You think you got it all down and you're here to yell it at the top of your lungs.

For someone who is so very certain of how things are and how simple things are and how the Gubmint could NEVER do such things......for someone as educated as an "engineer"......you ignore history.

How about this, why do you care? Why do you care to single out anyone on here or anywhere and chat them to death with made up facts?

If you're so certain....why not just carry on in life and just be done with it? You're in the right are you not? You have nothing to hide and truth is on your side right? So why go out of your way to tell everyone you're correct and we, the movement, is wrong?

Ego or money.

You still didn't explain why or how you determined you could dismiss the 100+ recorded eyewitness accounts (and 1000's of others that were never interviewed) that saw a plane hit the Pentagon.

I make up no facts. Here is a list of the 100+ eyewitness accounts: .

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html - believe them?

So why, again, do you dismiss all of them and latch onto the single guy who says he saw a plane on the east side of the river..a plane which very likely is probably the cargo plane that quite a few others saw?

No one is shouting here, I merely reply to ridiculous claims. Also, I never claimed to know it all...I do know that all evidence points to Islamic extremists and I have yet to see any evidence that leads otherwise.

So why go out of your way to tell everyone you're correct and we, the movement, is wrong?

Education. I am fully confident the US government performs black ops, even on it's own citizens. All the resources being poured into trying to tie the Mossad with 9/11 and Bush are wasted and better spent in more plausible conspiracy theories because there is not a single implausible event that happened on 9/11, nor is there any shred of evidence that proves otherwise.

EDIT: I realized that in all my replies to posts in /r/conspiracy I try to always answer every question I am asked. If i have not answered one of yours, let me know. What is frustrating is that's all you guys do - bombard people with questions and never really answer any. I asked you why you choose to dismiss 100+ eyewitnesses and believe 1 but cant fathom how I can dismiss one to believe 100+. I ask again, what is the thought process behind believing this fisherman and dismissing everyone else?

See where we're at here?

1000's of witnesses is just too big. I've never heard that number at all. Ever.

What I can say.....is that 13 witnesses to the plane on the NORTH side of the gas station as it went by....means it cannot cause a south side damage path.

That said.....I don't NEED to address your many supposed 1000+ witnesses to which you cannot confirm also saw it.

Do you understand why? If the plane could not have caused the damage on the South side.....it could not have hit the building. Which means there are NO 1000+ witnesses to the event.

I know you disagree, but what CIT has done is gone to Arlington VI and took testimony from people who were there. They canvased the neighborhood looking for anything. In fact they EXPECTED to have SOUTH SIDE witnesses.......and found NONE.

So basically.....it can't be down to YOUR word vs. MY word or anything.

You'd basically need to goto Arlington, VI yourself and find those 1000 people so we can all put this to rest. EDIT You can crush the whole flyover thing just by doing that. /EDIT

The problem is....you can't....or won't.....and even if you did.....you'd find NORTH SIDE witnesses, no south side.

Did you watch the video? How do you trump the people who were there? Just claiming thousands of people saw it is foolish. Repeating it like a parrot is even worse. Watch their video and they'll show how anyone on the highway coming north could not have seen it.

How about Lloyd England. Explain how his cab got hit by the light pole when the plane could not have hit it.

What I can say.....is that 13 witnesses to the plane on the NORTH side of the gas station as it went by....means it cannot cause a south side damage path.

How does this reconcile with the other 100+ witnesses I listed? Let me save you the trouble...those 13 fisherman saw the cargo plane.

That said.....I don't NEED to address your many supposed 1000+ witnesses to which you cannot confirm also saw it.

The 100+ I listed said what they saw...how is this different from the 13 fisherman who, also, simply said what they saw.

f the plane could not have caused the damage on the South side.....it could not have hit the building.

I think your definition of "south" is pretty liberal. The damage was on the southwest-west side. This is also the side that all the witnesses said they saw the plane hit. Please look at a picture of where the damage occurred and where the poles were knocked down and where the plane hit. They are all the same spot - on the southwest-west side.

You'd basically need to goto Arlington, VI yourself and find those 1000 people so we can all put this to rest.

Not necessary, we have over 100+ direct eyewitness accounts that were taken within minutes or hours of the crash. We also have flight data recorder evidence, physical evidence from the plane, physical evidence of the damage the plane made as it approached, and radar data the corroborate everything these witnesses stated. We also have 13 fishermen who saw a plane east of the river - which is where the cargo plane was probably going after the one it was following crashed since no one reported that the cargo plane made a 180 degree maneuver, it can only be assumed it kept traveling east.

So basically.....it can't be down to YOUR word vs. MY word or anything.

you are correct, it's not. Where you choose to put words into the 13 fishermans mouth (that they saw flight 77 east of the river), I merely state the plane they saw was the cargo plane that lots of others saw. My interpretation of what they said does not require me to dismiss 100+ other eyewitnesses, flight data recorder data, radar data, physical evidence or video evidence. Your interpretation does...so how do you do that? Simply dismiss all those other witnesses? You have yet to answer that.

The problem is....you can't....or won't.....and even if you did.....you'd find NORTH SIDE witnesses, no south side.

Witnesses were from all around the Pentagon - north, east, south and west. Just because you are latching onto this idea that the damage was on the south side of the Pentagon when it was mostly on the west (slightly south of due west) is just another method your leaders have of twisting facts.

Just claiming thousands of people saw it is foolish.

Thousands did see it. Only 100 or so were interviewed and gave a statement. But lets just use those 100 - were they all lying?

ow about Lloyd England. Explain how his cab got hit by the light pole when the plane could not have hit it.

There we go with asking more questions...this is your movements tactic...just ask, ask, ask, ask..never provide proof and never answer any questions. I have answered every one of yours. You cannot answer a simple question of mine. Very sad.

How could the plane have not hit that light pole when it was in it's direct path? The plane, travelling at 500+ mph hit the pole which flew into the air and impaled the taxi.

The 13 witnesses WERE not on the boat man! Those 13 people are the two PENTAGON POLICE OFFICERS and other around the Pentagon. The ones on the boat are only those who prove the FDR and the Radar data impossible.

See, you have an opinion....and yet you don't even know which witnesses I'm talking about and how they affect everything you're saying.

Hey, how about this. You seem pretty confident. You're talking in a sane manner. Most people can't, good on you. Do me a favor.

Go HERE and create an account. This is where all the information can be made clear.

If you're a sane, rational human who is like me....wants nothing more than the truth. Come to the forums and LOOK, and READ a bit before you comment......then when you do, ask questions.....and see what happens.

Please don't get upset, or annoyed. They're regular people who want answers as well. They, unlike me, have already done all the work to ANSWER the questions you keep asking.

Lastly, the reason why I keep asking questions and not technically answering yours is because...for the last 2 years....I've already done so. I'm kinda worn out. I don't care if one Engineer believes whatever.....not anymore. You'll find out anyway.

So, please....come on the forums, ask questions as see how it goes. If you want to understand WHY I say these things......you'll understand better because photos are provided, maps, and the list of witnesses around Arlington who did or could not have seen the plane, and WHY.

Please, pretend you care. Pretend you're wrong, and come and prove yourself right. Again before you do, look at some info.

What do you say?

It's not about winning and losing. It's about education.

So come on down!

If you're an intelligent individual you'll be able to tell the difference between bullshit info and credible and substantiated claims.

What do you say Levi?

Levi, you've got nothing to lose.

You're educating yourself on how we think. How we've come to our conclusions. What more can you ask for?

Unless of course you've heard of the dancing Israeli's. In which case you couldn't possibly put any credibility to our story that things are complete bullshit.

Watching and recording the whole event, they went on to go on TV and say what they thought.

Shown HERE

So when they go on TV saying they were there to document the event, you MAY want to QUESTION what you're told by the Government. Any educated person will say...HOW did they know....WHY didn't they do or say something? Then you look at the mossad, and you look at the media and see how they are portrayed.....and how politicians deal with 9/11 and Israel in general.

C'mon man. Levi.....you sound smart. You sound like you're up for straight and honest talk.

This is what I want t show you. How you can possibly be manipulated into thinking that everything you support........is false, and the real threats to your life and your humanity are happening in front of you.

The people who change your humanity, will be your conquers. In essence, they who determine who you are, will rule you.

When they tell you, its in your interests to support a war that has resulted in the deaths of 1 million Iraqi's means......you were fooled. The only reason they wanted that is so they could do their work without your disapproval.

No WMD's, no Osama bin Laden. Nothing. Just you hanging in the wind. They NEED you. They NEED your support. They need you to be ignorant. It is critical to them.

I will either see you on their forums or not.

I don't know what else to say. You've come across as wanting to be constantly be educated, to be informed.

Your choice.

Debunk this: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

Saying it wasn't a plane is on par with accepting Icke's reptilian bullshit.

By the way, I do think it was in inside job, I also, being an explosives expert think that OK City was a setup. But it is the height of foolishness to ignore the amount of facts in the case that it was a plane.

You sound reasonable. Please watch THIS and tell me you have FACTS to prove William Lagasse wrong or his partner WRONG. They were there that day....say the plane. You were not. You should probably take these LAW ENFORCEMENT officials at their word. They are willing to goto court over it.

Big stuff right? You have to tell me why the building wasn't blown up.....and why the plane flew North of the Citgo...but was still able to cause a SOUTH SIDE damage path.

Sir, unfortunately you're in the same boat. Its you're OPINION that gets you no where. Citing as many sites as you can does nothing against the testimony of the people WHO WHERE THERE THAT DAY.

Sorry to "yell" but its critical to understand why you can't be correct. The plane was conclusively determined to be on the NORTH side. It can't have caused the damage.

Don't you get it? If the plane could not have knocked down the light poles than it could not have caused the STRAIGHT LINE damage path being on a North side.....AKA Totally different approach.

Its so fucking simple its ridiculous. Please, look into this. When and if you get to 65 or 70 and the news tells you you....Oh yeah, and 9/11 was an inside job......you better hold onto your diapers because.....you'd have helped a Government which has done nothing but manipulate and fuck with you your entire life in order to get what a very SMALL amount of people want.

Don't push David Icke on anyone, you can't lump us all in the same group. Fuck for all your ignorant ass knows, there IS reptilians out there. Fucks sakes.....

How about some fucking reading comprehension. I am arguing that it was a plane asshole. What fucking part of:

By the way, I do think it was in inside job

Are you incapable of understanding?

By the way, the video that you link to uses the same video I posted several hours ago to make its case, so you are asking me to argue with a case I made.

Why do you link to that? Most if not all of the people CIT interviewed say the plane they saw flew into the pentagon.

Hundreds? Surely you have the list handy. After all, you counted them.

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html (199 eyewitness accounts) http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/sgydk.html (148 eyewitness accounts)

Ask and you shall receive. There are in fact hundreds listed there. Some may be dupes between the lists, but hundreds published is more than accurate.

Of those, less than a handful witnessed the actual impact.

Actually I don't. You see, after the 50th person doing a television interview gives the same "I saw a plane really low then I heard an explosion" answer, they stop asking people.

Rest assured, there are more than 100 people that have eyes that were in this vicinity. They are just not posting YouTube videos declaring the obvious.

What is so unbelievable about "Islamic terrorists attacked us because we have been murdering their sons, raping their women and bombing their neighborhoods for decades" ?

It is very likely that some Islamic people were paraded around by members of our government that are in the "inside". Thus 9/11 was an "inside job".

So give them BOX CUTTERS to take over a plane? That isnt ensuring success very much, is it? I mean, really - it's not like bombs have never made it onto American planes before. I would think, at least, a kitchen knife or something more menacing than....box cutters.

Really though? Box Cutters were the plan? And despite the perfection and secrecy to pull ALL that off...they were too incompetent to provide better evidence of their claims? It was a conspiracy because you cant find shit that shouldn't be there (ala serial numbers on a plane that practically disintegrated)?

But seriously, the entire master plan rested on BOX CUTTER wielding Muslims taking over FOUR fucking planes?

Except that it is disputed how many of those were in fact planes, and taken over by Muslims. We have had fly by wire for quite some time. Its called drones.

btw I'm done with this thread. You don't think like a military tactician and so it will be quite pointless for me to waste further time.

You don't need to be a military tactician to read the transcripts from over 100 eyewitnesses, to read a report on the flight data recorder found at the site, to look at the physical evidence they recovered and conclude that, yeah - a big ass plane crashed into the Pentagon.

No, those 100 people that were interviewed are ALL government plants, right? The flight data recorder was planted there, right?

Give me a break - your theory that the government concocted and masterminded the biggest terrorist attack on US soil and decided that, BOX CUTTERS would be the weapon that was most believable? That FOUR planes were ALL taken over with BOX CUTTERS. Seriously, explain how BOX CUTTERS was the best way to explain how they took over the planes? Also, please explain how they were so intelligent to plan this but so incompetent that an ignorant YouTuber would discover imaginary evidence that completely dismantles their conspiracy? ALL the power in the world with limitless funds and they make 'mistakes' that you are citing?

You sound like those dumb fuck "Moon Hoaxers" that cite evidence of a hoax only to find out is actually completely supports the landing. (Shadows, no lights, reflections, waving flags, etc.)

It is hilarious listening to the fragile chain of events you guys manufacture to tie everything together - very imaginative! Don't you think it's more likely that Muslims that are pissed off because we have been killing them for DECADES managed to play XBOX with some planes and crash them? Because thats what all the evidence proves.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

There is your list of over a hundred eyewitnesses to the Pentagon plane crash.

the aluminum shells and parts were vaporized.

Yet another first on 9/11!

Planes have gone straight in at high speed and there was no "vaporizing."

This is hardly a first. Many planes have crashed, we do, however, have video evidence of this plane crashing into the Pentagon and vaporizing due to heat from exploding fuel and the impact.

The walls of the Pentagon are not 8" unreinforced concrete. These walls are not only thick and full of heavy-duty reinforcing, but there are multiple layers of these walls. They are specifically designed to resist explosions and impacts. How well are they designed? Well that a secret because then 'evil people' would know what is needed to defeat it.

Yes, aluminum traveling at the speed of that plane hitting a surface that causes it stop will produce enough heat to vaporize aluminum.

Please provide a link of an aluminum plane hitting a surface capable of resisting the force of impact (to the point that only the tungsten engine penetrates it) that doesn't vaporize. Good luck. I can, however show you a simple experiment with aluminum car hitting a plate of steel from Mythbusters that clearly illustrates vaporized aluminum. While far from a plane crash (a plane crash involving MUCH more fuel and MUCH more momentum), it is heaps more evidence than anyone in /r/conspiracy ever submits.

Really now. Surely YOU can provide links to all those other "vaporized" commercial jetliners.

Oh,and pictures of the holes where those engines went in would be interesting, too. Those massive. Tungsten. Engines. Two of them.

There are no other videos of commercial jetliners hitting highly reinforced walls because this is the first incident a terrorist has done it. However, here is empirical evidence showing a military jet hitting a reinforced wall designed for a nuclear reactor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7eI4vvlupY&feature=related

Note that this jet is much lighter so the force at impact is lower, though it is going slightly faster.

There was only 30 minutes between the impact and collapse of the area it hit. That entire time the area was concealed with smoke from the fires and explosion.

The airplane penetrated to the third wall - inside the building. These engines, both of them, are not going to be sitting on the lawn with neon signs.

EDIT: What part of "Islamic extremists attacked us because we have been killing their children, raping their daughters and bombing their communities for decades" is unbelievable to you?

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/afc_747fire1.jpg

That's from fire only on a runway. Not from plowing at 500+ miles per hour into a solid reinforced wall.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/sacramento_dc8_feb1602_1.jpg

WHERE ARE THE WINGS!! IT'S OBVIOUSLY A COVERUP! (That's from a DC-8 similar in size to a 757, again, no reinforced wall to run into at more than 500 MPH.)

Stop it, just stop it. Take your head out of the sand and accept that it was flight 77 that hit the Pentagon and stop feeding the disinfo agents.

The plane debris observed in the various photographs does indeed comport with that of a 757, at least to the limited degree with which they can be compared to actual 757 parts or the manufacturer's detail drawings, as shown above. The engine compressor or turbine disk appears to be approximately the correct diameter to have been used in a Rolls Royce RB211-535E4B engine, as used in American Airlines 757 aircraft. The fragment of the high pressure combustor casing also comports with the string of fuel inlet nozzle holes, the mounting bosses of which have the correct number of screw holes (6). The combustor is definitely not from a Pratt and Whitney PW2037, which is the other make of 757 engine used in the airline industry, nor is it from a General Electric CF6-80C2.

Some observers have claimed that these engine parts are too small to have come from a 757. The confusion is because the RB-211 engine configuration is dominated by the large turbofan at the front of the engine, which is what people expect a 757 engine should look like. However, because the RB-211 is a "high bypass" engine, the high-pressure compressor, combustion chamber and turbine are all much smaller than the turbofan, as shown in the small overview figure at the top left of the drawing. It is perfectly reasonable to ask what happened to the turbofan -- but the compressor disk and the combustor case do look like 757 parts. - source

All of that evidence mind you.....was supplied by the one who are complicit in the event.

Its like taking the Mob to court, and then having all the evidence that the Mob had nothing to do with it, SUPPLIED by the Mob. That, and it is taken without question by anyone who doesn't have a clue about the facts.

All of that evidence mind you.....was supplied by the one who are complicit in the event.

No, the people gave these statements, not the government - unless you are implying that the government somehow managed to convince thousands of people to stay home and off the freeway so they could be replaced with thousands of others who are on the government payroll and are complicit in the act of killing thousands of Americans? Actually, that would not surprise me if that was your assertion...

Edit: Here is a link to the Pistol Shrimp, which produces a cavitation bubble that gets almost as hot as the sun. It does this by 'shooting' a bubble of air. A plane impacting a wall at the Pentagon easily generates enough heat to vaporize aluminum. We are not talking about maintaining a specific temperature for extended periods of time. We are talking about nearly every spec of that plane hitting a wall with a force to generate heat at the point of impact that exceeds the vaporization of aluminum. This will happen every time - here is a short vid of aluminum plane hitting a wall designed for nuclear power plant.here

Do you mean like all the nutters at Veterans Today?

Yes.

I personally think 93 was shot down. Specifically with an AIM-9M sidewinder fired from F-16D under the control of the Air National guard. But that is only because of the scuttlebutt I heard of a jet coming back one shy that day. The USAF Ammo community is large but tight. Most people don't understand how an AIM-9 works, but considering the warhead is only 20 lbs and uses a continuous-rod system to take down a target and is not designed to "spear" it's target, there would be no way of telling on the ground that one was employed. It would also explain the debris field scattered for miles before the nose in impact.

Exactly. The issue is they would rather believe 5 people who watched a YouTube video than thousands of eye-witnesses. Sometimes I run across a 9/11 truther article in /r/conspiracy and post evidence, I am then bombarded with 20 links (that all reference each other). I am talking about the ridiculous "1200+ architects and engineers for truth" website. I went through that list and found exactly ONE practicing structural engineer who indicated he believed it was a demolition. ONE out of 1200+. The truth is, anyone can sign that petition and the overwhelming majority of the architects and engineers are far removed from the specific discipline required to make an educated assessment of what happened. Ohh, and that lone structural engineer who claimed it was a demolition? He based this on YouTube videos...go figure.

Yes more anti-jew hate mongering, that's what we need.

Sounds more like anti-Israel sentiment. One's a country, the other is a people. Read a dictionary.

You're both right.

I was just wondering. Why is it OK to demonize Muslims and not Jews?

Cause one makes you a patriot, the other makes you a bigot. At least that's what the news tries to tell me.

Israel is a country, not a religion.

A country founded for a religion. Pretty fucking close - unless of course you're trying to hide your anti-jew hate mongering.

This is the argument of people who want to hide their pro-Zionism. It's easier to dismiss hatred than reason.

Yeah the people's heroes, dumbfucks who signed up for the military and achieved some minor-esque rank have the real intel on who did what and they're just posting it w/o the military having any clue - because hey, the military doesn't watch the people in its own ranks with sensitive info. And man, that real info?! It's about America's latest sob story that pulls all the heart strings, and GASP, one "ethnic" group didn't do it, it was another "ethnic" group! Zomg! Reveal! Comic book ending!

Wtf are you smoking.

Where's the Presbyterian country? Where's the Buddhist country? What about their "right to exist" (at the expense of the rest of the world)?

Well when they suffer thousands of years of persecution culminating in experimentation on, torture of, and massacre of six million or so of them, we'll start thinking about it.

Buddihists are not persecuted?

Were they rounded up into death camps and systematically abused, tortured, experimented on, and worked to death as well as executed en masse?

Your mom likes giant black cocks in all of her holes? See, I can put words into your mouth too.

Were they rounded up into death camps and systematically abused, tortured, experimented on, and worked to death as well as executed en masse?

Yes.

FUCKING ZIONISTS. Do you think the holocaust is coming to Miami? Stop fucking with the Palestinians, and with American foreign policy and you won't have to be so fucking paranoid.

Could you point me to some articles regarding the massacre of 6 million Buddhists, I must have missed that history class.

I think we need more Zionist finger pointing every time someone's found to not be towing the party line, so yeah. Thanks for helping out.

Good luck with that one. You go ahead and believe your million witnesses who where no where near as Lagasse and Brooks.

The witnesses were exactly that - WITNESSES that saw a plane crash into the Pentagon. Read that again, they saw a plane crash into the Pentagon. What did you see?

Of course the pics wont show an engine that size, the shell of that is aluminum with aluminum parts. You know what it does show? The internal tungsten turbine which is much smaller and exactly what they found inside the Pentagon.

The plane made a 180 degree turn...this means, follow me here...it was on ONE side and then the OTHER side. You have thirteen who saw the plane on one side...grats, they saw half the attack. Did they see that plane flying away after the crash? Of course not!

You have to be the biggest fucking delusional retard if you think the US government was capable of secretly pulling off 9/11 but made a mistake like knocking poles down on the wrong side. Is your head up your as that far?

PS, there is footage of the plane crashing into the Pentagon...along with over a hundred eye witness accounts, and a flight data recorder, and radar data, and physical evidence....I could go on but I don't think you can hear so well with your ears rubbing on the interior of your large intestine.

But yeah, YOU are sooo much smarter than the MILLIONS...literally MILLIONS of scientists, engineers and academics that have studied everything about what happened.

Really though...BOX CUTTERS? That is this entire conspiracy rests on?

So I cannot use anything the media has mentioned? Well that about rules out everything since they have reported on every fact of every incident and reported on every single piece of evidence worth mentioning. Won't be much of a debate but here goes...

Kieth Wheelhouse is one of a a handful of witnesses that claim to have seen another plane following behind or above (they have conflicting stories).

And...then there is the pilot, Steve O'Brian. His testimony does not in any way dispute what these people saw.

Steve-O

I don't see what this proves?

Steve Chaconas? Appears to be the ONLY witness that disputes the other thousand witnesses, the flight data recorder and the radar data. I would throw his testimony out as it appears certain to be an outlier. Look that word up.

You seem to have a pretty liberal definition of south and north. The poles damaged are from the southwest-west. The Plane came in from...wait for it..the southwest-west. Also, it flew north of the officers because...oh em gee, the officers were south of the plane.

You wont even think about considering it. You just parrot what has already been said.

Actually, I did consider it. Perhaps that fisherman boat saw the cargo plane? They were pretty far away. The reason I dismiss it as not being flight 77 is because then I have to dismiss the hundreds of other witnesses, the flight data recorder and radar data. So it's a choice I present myself with.

This guy saw flight 77 on the east side of the river means that over 100 people were mistaken in their testimony from locations that were MUCH closer, the other thousands who saw it but didn't give testimony never came out to say, "hey, thats not what I saw!!", the flight data recorder information was faked, and the radar data was faked.

OR

One guy and his friends on a boat fishing were, perhaps drinking and saw the Cargo plane flying away from the Pentagon.

I choose the latter. Why do you choose the former?

What is supposed to trigger to me that a military plane was following a hijacked passenger plane? It was likely monitoring it's actions. I honestly don't see anything nefarious at all about this.